Treating Wildlife on the Front Lines | SOP ep. 129 - Dr. Tim Hunt

Welcome to Speaking of Pets. I'm Dr. Alice Novotny-Jeroman, a board-certified veterinary dermatologist. And I'm not. I'm Janet Novotny-King, the doctor's sister, podcast co-host, pet owner, rescuer, and lover. We're here to provide pet owners with science-based information to help them be the best pet parents they can be. Here's today's episode created just for you and your pets. The following episode of Speaking of Pets podcast is brought to you by Dr. Tim's Pet Food Supplements. Welcome to the show. I know this is called Speaking of Pets, but you've got to wonder, what does a veterinarian do when we get in a wildlife emergency? So we have got Dr. Tim Hunt, our favorite Iditarod musher vet and founder of Dr. Tim's Pet Food with us today because he has treated so much wildlife from baby fox to coyotes to fawn, you name it, bald eagles. And this is one time I'm going to ask everyone to tell me what they're doing. I'm going to ask everyone to tell me what they're doing. I'm going to ask everyone to actually watch the show because the video that Dr. Tim has sent us is just adorable. But as cute as these animals are, we've got to remember they're wildlife and they don't know that we're trying to help them as veterinarians. So welcome, Dr. Tim. I can't wait to hear some of these escapades of yours. Why, thank you. Petcapades. It's a beautiful summer day. Hopefully it's nice where you're at. And hello to all those that are watching. Yes. And like I said, this is one show you guys have to watch. Watch the YouTube version because the videos are just outstanding. But anyway, I want to start with, before we even talked about doing the show, you had sent me some photos of a fawn that you thought maybe was attacked by a bear or something. I don't know if you ever figured that out. How did that one do? Well, that one unfortunately passed away after about 10 days. We had her going well and then she went the wrong direction. And we're not exactly sure why, but it was attacked by a bear. We've seen a number of them this year that were attacked by things. And how we can tell is by the distance between the big canine bites. So we tried everything we could on that one. And anyway, valiant fight didn't work, but we keep on keeping on. So what's the most memorable wild animal you've treated and what happened to it? The most memorable one? Boy, that's tough. There's been a lot of different things. I'd say the bald eagle was top of the list or close to it that came in. It was a sick one that somebody had called in about in someone's backyard, just hopping around. It'd been there for a day or two. So I went over there and was able to catch it in the woods because it was sick. He just finally gave up and able to put him in a cage and take him back to work. And then eventually I took him home and rigged up one of my outdoor kennels that I use for the sled dogs to make it a bird hospitable cage, which means a roof to it, enclosure. And then he lived in that eating roadkill and fish until I was able to get a raptor rehabber from downstate lower Michigan to come up and get him and take him from there. So that was really interesting. He would sit right there next to me. I'd have a glass of something and he would talk and I would ask him. Stock questions. Not as good as the stock information these days, but again, going back to that, he would help me out. Actually, it was a female and we named her Mrs. Longstockings. So she lived with us for about six weeks. And again, we reported all this because it's one of those protected animals. So you have to let the government know that. But since there wasn't a legal until we were able to get it to the appropriate place. So you went into chat GPT and said, what questions do I ask? I'm just kidding. Oh, this was before chat GPT. This was 19, let's see, 20, no, 2022. Was it rodenticide or what? Did you ever determine what was wrong with it? We didn't. We did lead testing on it and such. It was the time of avian flu. Oh, it did have lacking. It was lacking sight in one eye. So we weren't sure what made it so dilapidated, but it did respond and eat. It just needed extra care by the folks that do that for a living. So I was glad to see her go when the time was at hand. It was kind of sad. It was kind of neat to have an eagle in your backyard, but this sucker needed to go with his mate. Did she make it? Did you talk to wildlife people? Did she make it? I have to check and see. I lost touch. So I need to find out. Yeah, she was doing well the last time I knew. But they do a lot of owls and hawks and eagles down there outside of Traverse City, Michigan. They have a real nice setup there. So I bought them a lead testing machine so they could actually test it in house at the time they get the birds in versus wait for the turnaround. So that's helped them out a lot because they see a lot of lead poisoning. And if you know what you got, then you can put them on the stuff for lead poisoning right away. So I keep some of that in the hospital, but it's usually guesswork. You know, based on signs versus actually testing. So I know that's helped them out a lot, but I'm not certified to do rafters or anything like that. So as a vet, legally, I have three days to turn it around with exception. Oh, wow. Yeah, people don't realize that. They think we as vets can legally treat anything. Yeah, but that's not true. No, it's not real true. It's probably not wise to walk into a tiger's den at the zoo, you know, out of wisdom for yourself. But at the same time, I've worked on those animals a few times over the years and it can be rewarding. Everything's so much bigger, you know, like a tiger, their paws are really big and their teeth are really long, over like those house cats we deal with all the time. But you know what? A cat is a cat. And if you want to catch a cat at a zoo, how do you think you do it? With sedation. Stinky food. With a box. Right. So I'll hear people say, it's noon and there's a raccoon out in my yard. Aren't they nocturnal? Like, is that an issue when an animal that you know is nocturnal is awake during the day and out in your. Do you see what I'm trying to ask here? Yeah. Normally that means they're probably sick. Okay. So if you see a nocturnal animal during the day and it's not really running away from you, it's either sick with something really bad or it's not really running away from you, making them, you know, either way, it's a poor outcome typically. Rabies or distemper or one of those other wonderful things that these animals can get, unfortunately. But when you see a nocturnal animal during the daytime, I tend to steer clear of those until you talk to somebody who knows what they're doing. It's different than a deer, you know, a baby fawn that's sitting by the side of the road with the mom obviously hit by a car versus suddenly you see a bat sitting on your porch in the middle of the day. That's odd. Common sense is thin and sometimes fleeting. Common sense can be a very expensive credential. That's for sure. Getting back to the eagles and the lead poisoning, Jim, explain to people why you see so much of that because I don't think they realize that. Lead poisoning? In eagles and raptors. I'm thinking paint. Yeah. Most eagles, they're carrion eaters. They eat dead things. Okay. They really don't go off catching live things. You see a lot of them catching fish and everything. Maybe those kind of eagles do it, but the majority of eagles that are in the lower 48, for instance, are going to feed on something dead, be it a dead deer on the side of the road or whatever. They like carrion. So oftentimes the carrion they're going to get are going to be ducks and geese, and those are hunted by humans that use shotguns with lead shot. So they might get loaded up with lead shot, and that's how they ingest the lead, which then spirals down into how lead poisoning can affect the raptors. That's the most common thing. A second then is when they eat a fish that has a lead sinker in it. So that can happen too. And lastly is the lead paint. I don't think they go around painting houses, but again, stuff balls around, gets into stuff, and they're just more susceptible to lead. But you can turn those guys around if you can catch it in time. There's been a move for more steel shot these days, but it's not a legal thing that I know of. It's an option for the hunter to use that. It just doesn't carry as much wallop. Okay. Should we be feeding wildlife? Like literally, I was down at the beach the other day at like the snack bar. I'm on the ocean. And the snack bar guy goes, oh yeah, that's my squirrel I feed every day. I'm like, great. So I mean, and if that squirrel's coming around, he's getting like french fries, right? So is that a good thing for us to be doing? It's a really great question. And I guess I would think about the type of animal we're talking about here. Feeding a squirrel is a little different than feeding a skunk. Okay. Squirrels don't carry rabies. Skunks do. Raccoons carry rabies. Squirrels and chipmunks don't. Okay. So those kind of rodent things to me are more acceptable in that they don't convey diseases to people like some of the other things do. Some of the other animals, again, need to still establish their understanding, meaning that humans aren't friends because we hunt them so feeding deer all the time is nice but again if your husband's a hunter and you're just waiting to shoot the buck over your food pile in a in the fall it makes me kind of bummed out that you know the challenge of the hunt is lost but um you know to to each their own as to feeding wildlife as to what you see fit but my takeaway is to try not to interact with animals of prey type outcomes or more especially ones that can convey something nasty to us not every pet needs a whole new diet sometimes they just need a little extra support discover dr tim's pet food supplements developed by veterinarian dr tim hunt the lineup includes joint support for senior and working dogs heart support for both dogs and cats and a balanced blend of omega fatty acids for whole body wellness simple targeted additions you can add right to your pet's daily routine and the best part your dog will think they scored a tasty treat check it out at drtims.com sometimes the smallest changes make the biggest difference hey everyone don't forget to pick up country critter journal if you live in northeast ohio it's a must read for all pet lovers their goal is similar to ours here at the podcast to educate your dog on how to feed your dog and how to feed your dog and how to feed your dog educate the community on taking care of pets they're advocates for adopting from shelters not puppy mills and they connect our local communities with goods services kennels and those seeking to adopt a pet they're a hometown paper with a personal touch a must read for all pet lovers country critter journal what if my pet like libby came out of our we have woods all around us and she came out of the woods with a um i call it like a teenage wood chuck in her mouth other than me screaming drop drop drop drop like what do you do if your pet brings it in the house or you know brings it close to you well they're just doing what dogs do it's their job they're gonna prey on things and they're proud to bring it to you yeah you know it's like a kid going and playing baseball and winning a trophy right so you bring it home and show off the home run ball you hit over the fence um i don't think dogs need to be punished for that or cats no it's just a matter of you know you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house or you're not going to be in the house yeah try to avoid that happening and that's tricky once they get the taste okay let's say a dog that kills chickens they never lose it yeah yeah i agree with them and you can try all the i'm not advocating the shot collars you want um but those are very difficult to break um typically it means you have to put a fence up you have to put in something that's going to definitely keep them from finding the neighbor's flock of chickens or whatever it might be the woodchuck the same thing i mean how do you guard against that um tough one to do unless you have some sort of a boundary set up in your yard which then keeps them away from the woodchucks chucking wood in your yard so well and it's a good reason to keep up your rabies vaccine status you know yeah i mean really you know what i see around here and i've come across it twice someone hit a possum and they're the babies and just the other day on the way to the bookstore someone hit one and the babies must have been on the back of it because the babies were actually about four inches long and they had hair you know the first time i found this they were in and they were crawling out and then of course someone ran over those too that i have to tell you that is so distressing because possum aren't fast that possum didn't run out there you know what i'm saying so um but i always tell you that it's a good thing that you have a possum that's hit stop and look because there could be babies there mm-hmm sure sure and that's going to be a real thing versus you find a fawn and you don't see the mother around a lot of times the mom's just in the woods right on sitting there because they're young and they're unsure and they're just holding still and people think they're abandoned or orphaned um which is rarely the case i always recommend leave them for an hour and come back and see if the fawn is still there almost always they're gone um if the mother is dead you're gonna usually find them close by the fawn's not gonna go too far away yeah live or dead mother you know initially getting back to like the possum or the woodchuck you're talking about both of those can carry rabies right and rabies is something that when you get exposed to it you don't have to get bit you can have a cut on your hand and you get some saliva from the dead animal or live on that and then it gets into your nervous system and it can take up to three months three months for you to come down with it so it's not like you get it in your cujo the next day yeah those are movies this takes time i didn't realize how long it took i thought it was much quicker yeah yeah yeah and it's horrible there's been one person in the united states that's lived through it and she's in wisconsin um and that's it i mean other countries have this all the time where people die horrible deaths i'd rather at the stake you know does that burn me alive kind of thing it's a terrible death but getting back to it vaccinating your pet is the easiest thing to do to try to guard against it and then using common sense and not go pick up um a possum or a skunk or um i had a lady bring in that coyote the other day in her arms and she had given it alive so it had a broken jaw and they'd been watching it for a week finally the the coyote got tired enough where they were able to trap it and again it's at the age of like a eight or ten week old puppy so it's cute and they are pretty docile at that point but still oh my god she gave it a bath yeah it took us aback when she walked up with it and uh we put it in a cage and then we gave it some anesthetic gas to get him sleepy we were going to touch it in the right situation and went from there but i mean it's it's good samaritans with good intentions yeah sometimes losing sight and it looked like a puppy yeah yeah we used to always have a joke with some of the sled dogs they look like coyotes we'd always say they're a coyote mix you know um but no one ever really bred a coyote that i know of did you fix its jaw were you able to fix it or no yeah we were able to wire it and now it went to the rehab lady um north of us who's really good that hopefully you'll get on your show one day yeah and uh she'll be releasing it i think in the next month and she has it off sequestered in a cage in the woods so they're not interacting with it so the coyote can stay afraid of yeah so they don't identify it um like those geese that would follow you in an airplane you know that really happens you know so they can bond to you oh my god i when i was um back at ohio state i was involved with raptor rehab and i told janet this many times how we funded raptor rehab was we collected cans and you know at the 8 a.m classes you know dr tim all the cans would be popped so we would go around collecting all the cans and we would go around collecting all the cans and we would go around collecting all the cans and we would go around collecting all the cans on not on campus but on the vet school campus and that actually funded our raptor rehab but i i do it it's really daunting to get we used to have to take the owls or the hawks out of the cage you know to put them in the next cage because you had to clean that cage and i'm going to tell you you got to keep those eyes busy and then you go in there and you grab those legs and they're big they're big right they're not heavy but they should have sent you the video of the owl we caught out of a tree last year oh send it send it because i'll send it so you can see it it's really neat this had a big rat trap on his foot oh my god so he was trying to catch a mouse on the trap and he got snapped and it was sitting in a tree anyway i'll send you the video uh my daughter-in-law filmed it i didn't know she was filming anyway we caught it and let it go and it did fine um but it's really neat but getting back to you know financing it's always on a string and a dime kind of thing it is to fund these things it's not big money occasionally you get a big hearted person that'll put in there but it's often a lot of little donations that keep things rolling the hardest part of the whole thing is finding someone that's motivated to do it yes the dedication to working with these things it's not like an overnight thing where you blew their bill and they go back to you know duck heaven or wherever it might be that they're heading to you know they're heading to you know they're heading to um it often takes some work and rehab and and knowledge it's not real simple their systems are set up differently and how they respond to you but getting back to like the owls yeah one of the first hours i worked with was a snowy owl and how i was taught you know when we caught it they'll come across lake superior here and often be very tired and they'll be sitting somewhere still for days and then people worry and you get them and feed them and they fly away is you catch them and you put them upside down and then they become docile you know and the same goes with an eagle or a hawk it's just to get the feet and then you invert them yeah you don't have to shake them or anything you just do that and then they relax if you just baby them you know like that they're pretty chill but again they're very dangerous years ago we had a blue heron that came in this little kid was walking down some dirt road and saw this heron in the middle of the road and he was able to walk up to it grab it okay took it home to his grandpa and said grandpa look and he had this big blue heron and his grandpa said holy cow you know the parents build like that long so he looked at and there was a fishing line coming out of his mouth so they brought it over to the clinic we got it sleepy and he had a big rappel a big lure in his throat so he had nailed a fishing lure thinking it was a minnow and then had it in his throat for quite a long time Anyway, we got it out, able to start to feed it, rehab it. I got it to another rehab lady, another vet south of me that had a pond. So she was able to trap minnows and feed them a lot and get them back to health within a month. The newspaper picked up on the story and wanted to see the kid and the blue heron. So we got the heron back. And how did this work? I had the heron, I think, in my arms and I had it by the neck. And as the kid ran up to him, I said, wait a second, wait a second. He ran right up to it and the heron punked him in the head like a cantaloupe. It happened so quick. You know, I should have known better. I'm glad it didn't hit his eye, but it punked him and he could see his eyes spin around. I mean, that's how they defend themselves, you know. But that heron was good and it was time for him to fly away. Oh, yeah. And people don't realize that is like razor sharp. Oh, yeah. You know, so really, he's lucky he didn't. It happened so quick and I'll never do that one again. But now we can laugh at it. It's easy to, but at the time, you know. I can't imagine anyone going up to a heron and hugging it. That must have been a sick heron. It was very sick. It was really emaciated. Probably couldn't function. I mean, he was on his last leg. No, they just sit there. They just didn't do anything. The kid was about nine, maybe ten and grabbed it and brought it home. And fearless. Yeah. The funny thing is that kids will bring home. I thought worms were. That's a big thing in my world. Turtles. Here's something we appreciate about Dr. Tim's supplements. It's not one size fits all. Got a dog who never stops? They've got joint support built for the long haul. Got a nervous Nellie? They've got CNS Serene to help them settle. Got post-adventure fatigue? They've got recovery chews that help with recovery. And your pet will love the taste. Speaking of pets is committed to bringing you science-based products that solve real problems. Dr. Tim's supplements are a great example. Practical, targeted, and easy to add to your pet's routine. Take a look at drtims.com to find the right one for your pet. Hope you're enjoying today's Speaking of Pets podcast. Every week we feature a board-certified specialist, dermatology, me, oncology, internal medicine, orthopedic surgery, ophthalmology, dentistry, you name it. If it affects pets, we're on it. We're here to share some really good information for pet owners. Practical information that is science-based so that you can be a pet owner and have a healthier pet. To learn more about your pet's health, check out our other episodes wherever you get your podcasts. We get a lot of turtles, too, in the spring. I wanted to ask you about turtles. Yeah, snapping turtles are the biggest challenge because they want to nail you. The other ones are easy. And I'll tell you what, I don't know if you have turtles down your way, but they stink. They stink. They really smell bad. When you find them, they're covered in algae and everything, and they smell like where they live. Yes. They're pretty sturdy fellas. It's amazing how they can get run over and survive. Well, I always tell people, when you see a smashed turtle, it very well is still alive. Because you know how they kind of shut down? So I've been known to take turtles that there wasn't much left. I still take them in. Because I think even if he's not going to make it, I'd rather have him be put to sleep than have him lay there dying, suffering. Right, and their heart rate can be like three or something ridiculous. Right, for like two weeks, like a bear almost, hibernating, you know? Right, right. Do you see any bears? Has anyone brought a bear cub to you? No, I haven't had a bear, which is fine. There was a three-legged one with a broken foot, a sow that had at least three, whatever you call a litter of cubs, I can't remember, in the area by the hospital. And it was always a joke. If somebody could catch it, I could fix it, which wasn't going to happen. But she was tough. I mean, she lasted, I don't think they saw her this year, so she might have moved on. But she would have two to three cubs each year. She'd limp around. Wow. And I'm friends with trail cams, and they would share it with me, you know, them coming through at night and being on the porch with the same female sow. So, yeah, they're tough. Yeah. Have you ever had a wildlife patient that taught you something? That you never expected? Hmm. That had something I never expected? No, that taught you something. Like, you had an experience with that wildlife. Oh, taught me something. That eagle taught me patience. Oh. It taught me a lot of patience. Wow. So, I was lacking that at that point. The fawns tend to teach you, because when they come in, the success rate's low, even though you can plate the leg or fix the broken jaw. Okay. They're fragile, and it takes a lot of work on the rehabber's side to pull them through versus the mom got hit and they're orphaned. Those, as you saw in the videos, are all nursing away. Wow, yeah. But the ones that come in compromised are tricky, and we've talked with many people and taken classes, and our success rate's lower than I want it to be, but I want 100%, and 50% ain't good enough for me. Yeah. So, we keep, you know, trying different things to see if, in these situations, because the injuries we see. Typically, the fawns start to come in around the first week of June are very similar, okay? They're going to be car hits, so they're head injuries or broken limbs, or sometimes they'll come in with a broken back, and they don't act like it. We had one of those this year that had a broken neck up here, and it was still bating and everything, and then we got the x-ray and saw it had a subluxation of a certain cervical vertebrae, and there was nothing we could do, unfortunately, and that fawn was with it, you know? Wow. It was hard, but again, like what you were saying, better to ease them out of pain than let them sit there. I agree. That's what's always tough, you know? When you're driving along, and you see something on the road, and you're a vet, I mean, what do you do? Yeah. You pick up your turtle. You do. No, Alice screams. I feel a turtle, and he feels a turtle. And you've got to stop. Also, Dr. Tim, talk about capture myopathy, because I don't think people know what that is. Okay, what is that? Yeah. Capture myopathy happens primarily with larger mammals at an older age versus the fawns. Luckily, the fawns don't get it nearly as much as anything that's more than, I think, three months or so old, and that's where they get so revved up and so overheated that they release all these substances from their muscles, which then lead to their kidneys getting damaged and brain edema and all sorts of wonderful things. So trying to minimize capture myopathy is a big deal when you're out there, like you were mentioning before, you know, darting or sedating this tiger. You want to minimize that capture myopathy, and how you do that is avoiding stress or confrontation. So if you can avoid that and do it in such a way where you're hidden and they walk on by and you dart them, I haven't done it. But again, talking to people that have, that's the idea. You know, even from a helicopter, you can have capture myopathy, you know, when you're zooming in because of that sound, and they'll start to run. Yeah. Even though you're trying to make it happen quick, they will lose animals. Capture myopathy, be it an elk or a moose or whatever they're trying to tag. But they've gotten much, much better with it. When I've talked to the Department of Natural Resources that does this with bears, like with the bears, they do it in hibernation. They'll track them into their dens, and then they dart them in the den, bring them out, put the tags on it. So they're already asleep versus you're trying to do it alive. With the other animals, let's say up in Alaska with the migratory animals, again, they try to do it more in a way of surprise versus, you know, you're pursuing. Again, a grizzly bear. Grizzly bear is a little different. You know, I wouldn't really want to surprise the grizzly bear. So they usually do it by airplane or helicopter. You know, so it all depends on the species. But, yeah, it's really fascinating, those folks that do that for a living, the chemicals they use and the methods. But they see, like, one patient a day. You know, people think. I'd be so bored. Yeah, but a super interesting patient. Eagle patient. Yes. A concierge doctor. But people think, well, why can't they just pick that deer up and move it to somewhere else? Because chances are that you'll scare the hell out of that deer and it'll die moving it. So they don't get that. That's what capture myopathy is, Janet. It's almost like they're so scared. Like Dr. Tim said, they release all this stuff and it goes kind of like when the first day I went to Pilates, you know, I thought I had that myopathy thing. But anyway, that's another story. No, seriously. And your legs are stuck. My legs are still stuck in the air. Yeah. You know, in Sanibel, when I was helping out Crow, we had a heron that had an eye problem and a rehabber that really wasn't a rehabber was taking care of it and the eye was not getting better. So they finally transferred it to us. And actually, on the second treatment, it died of capture myopathy. Oh, no. Tell me about some of your experiences. I didn't realize you worked with wild creatures. Oh, not to the degree you have. In Florida, at Care and Rehabilitation Wildlife, we did mainly birds and tortoises, a lot of tortoises. I was not in the snake room. That was off limits to Alice, Dr. Alice. Yeah, I get it. I get it. Yeah. But we did a lot of pelicans, which I love pilling a pelican because the arm goes all the way down to here. In the mouth? What? In their mouth? That's funny. Yeah, they have that big gullet and you got to get it down there. But you know, they don't weigh much. Do you ever pull anything out? Yeah. No. Well, a lot of fishing line. Yeah. Fishing line. No, dog things like license plates and stuff. No. no you know what that they probably should have like a museum of stuff like that but um and the other thing is like you said when they're sick they're easy to capture but you know occasionally in the morning when i would walk to beach i my poor husband i'd say bring the box and the beach towel because they're like a pelican and when it was really sick it was easy to pick up and you know put in the back of the car but the rest when they're not sick that they do a lot of this yeah yeah they they make you go away they're effective those big wings you know me too did you read about the guy who was in the new york post today that kept he was hunting for stuff on the beach and he dug like six feet down because he kept hearing the beeper on his thing on his metal detector where was it his steel toed shoes oh my god no i did not hear that oh my god i was like oh my god i was thinking about were they on somebody huh were they on him so he kept doing the metal detector and he kept digging and it kept ticking thing he kept digging and he went see standing in six feet sorry you you married this guy yeah no right i think it's from jersey i'm just kidding yeah from jersey but you know dr tim when you said you you and that eagle kind of got close when we had cindy otto on and she did the same thing with a buzzard a turkey vulture and she actually taught him tricks and she said he would just come back every year she says i didn't he wasn't in a pen or anything so it really is i would i never encourage people to make pets of wildlife but sometimes stuff happens and you know yeah you're just sitting in the eagle liked you what can i say you know yeah like sure yeah yeah i mean people get crows and ravens to talk oh i know it's amazing yeah they are they're smart yeah one story um where we live the streets have like these big ditches it drives you nuts because in the winter you're you know you'll slide into it so anyway i'm at work and my husband calls me we'd had a big rain and said you know there's a loon here in the ditch and you know loons can't walk janet it's like weevils wobble but they don't and they don't fall over they have to have water so he said and it's just laying there because now the water's all gone from there so i couldn't leave because i was seeing patients so i sent jackie who works with me jackie goes over and picks it up and my husband's driving and we're taking it to hinkley lake to release it at the lake she is and it's on her lap and it nailed her it nailed her with that sharp beak it right right in the face and god love her and everything was successful i think but it's a learning you can't put stuff like that around important parts of your body you know you have to use something to cover their head up like yes eagle the same way you know cover their head up and then you you you grab it same with most other animals i would recommend you know a mobilization can be just with vision primarily with the young ones um but they can wallop a good bite you know oh yeah it's not fun to have gloves then so well alex always talked like her who well alex taught me like you can take a sock off and put it around their mouth there's something to to sick it's a dog that's hurt or something like that if you side of there's like a air hole you can't yeah over there right and like if you encounter a dog hit on the road nicest dog might bite you when you try to move them because they're injured they're scared what i always recommend is you need to do a muzzle like what you're saying right um use your belt or whatever to immobilize the part that's going to hurt you which is their teeth and they can part really hard um when you're trying to save them yeah um so make sure you're you're safe and then the other thing is make sure you're not in traffic yourself you know i had a friend in vet school that got nailed by a car trying to help a deer out and breaking his leg and so on he's lucky to be alive um so sometimes you get into the moment you kind of forget what's around you so what do you carry in your car and i'll tell you what i carry in mind assuming we're going to come up on something like that what do you what do you advise people oh i always have i always have a leash or two so i can muzzle them um i don't carry euthanasia or anything like that so i would never do that or anesthetic i typically don't keep um but i'll have something else that i can have on hand if i have to do something to ease the suffering okay right it's not some controlled drug right yeah yeah what do you have in yours i carry a box because you know those baby possum you know so a box i carry those uh blue nylon leashes because you know if it's a cat or dog you can leash it but or some you can put use as a muzzle uh i carry a towel um you have a small shovel and i yeah i do for snapping turtles no i was picking up baby raccoons screaming once wait so that's true yeah but i do carry like a big regular size plastic snow shovel so i can encourage um snappers across the street because i don't think i'm going to be able to carry a baby raccoon if i'm going to be able to carry a baby raccoon if i'm going to be able to carry a baby raccoon if i'm going to be able to carry a baby raccoon i don't feel comfortable with the way they tell you to pick them up i still don't either come and get me you grab them on the back of their shell and it's like that neck really goes you know and they say not to pick them up by the tail so you you shouldn't do that right and i saw a video of someone doing that and i thought no we were taught not to do that right right right i think you're taught one thing and do another sometimes because grabbing the shell to me is they really move quick and they hiss and everything and blah yeah so i like sticking them in a box like what you're saying with the shovel yeah or and always if they're crossing the road take them over in the direction they're going don't take them back to where they came from right you don't ask them why they cross the road either that's chicken oh chickens damn i got that mixed up i know it's you know deer coyote chicken whatever our hospital is we have all these turtles that lay eggs in the spring and then they'll hatch usually end of september one year we had the most ever we counted were 256 little baby snappers all over the parking lot only like six or eight got run over before we got there and identified that they all had hatched at once last year wasn't as big we only found like 30 maybe yeah and it goes alternate years it seems to rotate we'll get painted turtles too but the snappers really like the sand because we're right by a river and it's always interesting when it does happen everybody runs out there and i've got a great video of them all coming out of the hole when they hatch their eggs or from the eggs and they're kind of digging out for first light it's really neat i'll have to find that for you too oh i'd love that i'd love that you know when i walk hinkley lake every year well not the same place but there's always a snapper laying her eggs and then you know how they kind of then shake their back legs like that so then the next day when i'm there sometimes i see the shells yeah we cover up the water the holes when we find where they nested we will put a big um dry deck um cage mat over it okay and then i'll leave it there and that's helped our success rate otherwise they're dug up by the skunk or fox or whatever it might be yeah do you know you can change the temperature of the soil and influence whether they're all males or females i had heard that yeah i had wow yeah temperature dictates what you're gonna get you cool it down for males warm it up for females i don't know what are you using to cool it down and heat it up heating pad like what are you out water you just warm up the soil so if you like incubating eggs you incubate them at 88 versus 82 and you'll get i think the warmer gets you all females i think is how it works i had read that yeah yeah i don't know i could be 50 wrong but it makes it funnier joe dr tim have you ever seen a fisher cat a fisher fisher cat well they call fisher we call them fisher cats here oh like a region cats or no it's this black weasel lives in the weasel yeah it lives in the pond we have and if there is a fisher that's a big weasel they're about 40 inches long though they're really large up here but if you ever you don't see them often oh my god they're like a big mink we have them in our pocket and when you look them up online they are so unattractive they're all have like a face and they're scary no they're terrifying anything yeah they're very ferocious in our pond and the geese and everything oh they eat them oh yeah i saw when it came out it was it was scary looking it looks like a black long yeah we have them here do you see any dr tim any what otters river otters yeah we have otters here um i don't personally get any in but i've seen them in the river by us when we had covid and you had covid it got so quiet for that long period of time every time we got to the river we got to the river we got to the river we got to everything in the river by us we could hear everything there were no cars anymore no people and we did all our appointments outside right yeah so i would go out there and we would have river otters coming through and all sorts of game and wildlife we'd never see because of the traffic and they would come out during the day like what you saw like in new york the deer were walking down the streets and stuff these river otters would come up which are usually a little bit more reclusive but they're pretty funny not as funny as the ocean ones but they're very similar you know laying on their backs and doing - We now have, do you know what Katie did are these big green things yeah it is deafening at night when you go outside it's the katie did me it's literally like it reverberates and you're like oh my god stop it's so loud right now but you know getting back to otters their jaws are pretty powerful right very yeah they're very very strong any of those type mink animals and stuff they really bite hard i would think so predators you know yeah so remember everybody out there how you tell the difference between prey and predator right where their eyes are right front looking eyes are predators sideways eyes are prey so think about that the next time you look at a cow versus a wolf yeah a coyote my new best friend before we go i want to ask dr tim about the video was it a rat that was suckling was what was that it was an albino that was a albino squirrel that was a squirrel because yeah that was albino squirrel which is really really rare i think one in a hundred thousand or something is what i was told um and somehow they got a litter of them and they get flying squirrels up there too i don't think that was a flying squirrel no it looked like now that you say it looked like a squirrel now that you tell me is it all like white beige color it was all white and grew up to be white i guess it stuck around the area so they were able to follow it too but it was a true albino we had an albino deer here joanne our producer i'm telling her it was on medina line road as i would go to work every day and i probably saw that dear dr tim i probably saw it for four years and then i didn't see it but she was she was just i'd always kind of watched because i knew there were deer in that one area and yeah she was cool yeah yeah well gary davis would say bummer of a birth mark hell so in san francisco we had antoine leblanc which was the white alligator oh i've not seen a white game it was pretty cool because he was in the green and i'm looking up where he was he was it he was at one of the zoos we had in the california academy of science and it was white in the green like muck it was bizarre oh yeah that would be bizarre but he lived quite a long time i think he died but he lived a long time it was kind of well if you're not incorporated into this um right now i'll send you the video of the owl in the next 24 okay joanne will edit it in she you know yeah it's you'll really like it it's it's neat i'll send you the video of the owl in the next 24 if you want to watch it in the next 24 i'll send you the video of the owl in the next 24 i'll send you the video of the owl in the next 24 i'll send you the video of the owl in the next 24 i'll send you the video of the owl in the next 24 i'll send you the video of the owl in the next 24 i'll send you well this is really fascinating wow i knew janet you would learn a lot because i i learned a lot from dr tim about wildlife because the little bit i've done that's just the tip of the iceberg it's fascinating oh there's so much to learn and do and it's really crazy the different species and then subspecies of that and the little nuanced differences and how to feed them and my dream is always to retire and go up to alaska and work in um oh that marine marine place they have in seward that would always be fun you know and take care of big sea lions and stuff but i think i'm aging out of that what always fascinates me too is well the drugs that you can use in certain species and not in others and i'm always terrified of making that mistake you know yeah yeah i hear you we'll wrap it up thank you so much dr tim for being a two peter oh you're welcome glad to be a three peter one day too and sam is sending us some dental dental powder yes yes it should have arrived at your house um and if not um let me know um if everybody has a dog that wants it i don't know how many got sent so cool good dental duck well i want it for you here is getting it i know libby's not with me right now yeah it should arrive tomorrow then if it didn't today thank you if there's more um is there need or demand on your end let me know okay thank you appreciate that but thank you so much for being on our show we appreciate you and don't forget listeners to send in your emails your questions we love hearing from you to sop podcast.com um and we'll get back to you thank you so much and we'll see you next time share with your friends we love that and anything else out that's about it and and heed what dr tim said about if you see injured wildlife first safely stop don't just stop in the middle of traffic and you've got to be careful if you get hurt that animal that's injured is going to not do well so i hate to say it but think of yourself first and then help the animal thanks so much for tuning in bye you're welcome bye everyone this episode was brought to you by dr tim's pet food supplements veterinarian developed easy to use and built to support your pet exactly where they need it learn more at dr tim's.com until next time keep asking questions keep learning and keep loving your pets hey thanks for watching and listening we like likes don't forget to like share and subscribe you can follow us on social media at speaking of pets and give your pets a 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