Transitions - Eddy De Clercq Podcast

Welcome at Transitions, a conversation between interviewer, presenter, Peter, DJ from Rosenthal and DJ Eddie DeClairek about the art of DJing. I'm going to introduce myself briefly, my name is Peter from Rosenthal de la Vegas. I'm a DJ with plays from mostly classical music and mix that with updates, sometimes in my ship. I'm also educated at the Royal Conservatory in the Hague and I compose music for theatre and ballet. I started DJing electronic music in 2009. I decided to bring my law for classical music to the turntables. We're going to continue, "Hey Eddie, who are you?" Well, that's a long story to start with. I started DJing as a 15-year-old lover of music and I worked mainly later on in clubs, but I became very familiar with music because my family has lots of bars and cafes, dance things. Music, for me, was like a natural vibe. My grandmother had a bar and my mother had a bar and they got these juu-boxes in the '60s. I'm talking about growing up in 1965 up to 1970 and juu-box was the medium to play music in those bars. They also rented records to come every week and the guy from the record store who actually hired the juu-box. He also brought the music in a single and the singles that were something that came every week and they had a cover and I was the guy who was doing that, pulling the records out of the covers and selecting the music for the juu-box. That's already part of kind of DJ. Yeah, that's the thing, the base of DJ that you start with selecting the music as I did in those younger years. But it gave me a very good education about music since I knew a lot about rock music and jazz and at the time the dance music of the '60s and later on I was a runaway, a runaway from home. And I read a book a lot of night noises and I don't let the night end or never end beautiful stories in there. You left, you went to clubs. I left home when I was 16 and I went for Brussels first of all and in Brussels I just got involved into the night life of the city and there was a beautiful, beautiful selection of clubs to go to every weekend. One of these clubs was called 'Luck Club' and it was a one story up dancing. It was very chic and very what you call 'member only' and there was a beautiful sound system with a record collection from the owner and that was in those days in the '60s, '70s. That was still every club or bar had its own collection so I didn't have to bring my own records. I just selected all the music that I was there. The reason I went there at the club was because first I needed work and I went to work behind the bar because that's what I knew very well in my family. But the guy said the owner and you're too young to serve alcohol. But we needed DJ on Saturday and next week the guy is off and could you replace him. I've never done it, life in front of a crowd but of course I said yes, I can't. You didn't have a turntable at home which you didn't practice on? No, my father forbidden turntables at home. Music was something that was very very bad for Catholics in church we sang choruses but in at home there was no music except a radio. Your first DJ experience was in a club in Pinoestropia, in Brussels, tell me more about that. Well the first time I played I just pulled out all these records from the collection and I put on everything I knew and I was like a new read, walk on the wild side and I mixed it with Fela Kuti and I mixed it with Gloria Gainer and I mixed it with Barry White and all that sort of music because I was trending at the time. And also the club was very very much like a honey pot for artists who came to Brussels to perform. So every weekend after the first time the owner came to me and said when are you going to work again because you know we like it. So I was like engaged and I stayed in that club for one year and during that time I met a lot of people actually from Holland and you know Paris and also artists like Barry White and Love and Limited. They were there. Yeah they came there to chill. Wow. After the concerts in Brussels and you know there's that sort of crowd fashion designers. You, you DJ for Barry White. Yeah. I played his own music. Barry White saved him. Yeah. That was fantastic. It saved the night. Okay cool, later I read also that you went to popcorn and popcorn is yeah we know we only have it at this. When we go to the movies but popcorn is a Belgium trend. Tell me something more about it you were on the beginning of the popcorn scene. Well that's a long story as well but short popcorn is the name of a club in France near Sydney class in Belgium and that's where the trend started to go to dance on a Sunday afternoon to Scala of music and the popcorn was named after mother popcorn by James Brown. Yeah. But it had nothing to do with funk. There was no funk music there. They only played like a selection of scar, a soul, rhythm and blues, shlager, also like music from soundtracks, any sort of crazy sounds you know that would fit in a certain style they played. And you start DJing that. And the DJs that played these were really like at that moment superstars you know you had like Gilbert Kofert, you had Chef Kolobaut and all these guys they had their own collection of music. They brought themselves and this was the most obscure sort of music you could find you know it was like totally obscure music. And that started the craze because of the moods that music created you know and the style they created with it is because it had a certain tempo and that was like 100 BPM approximately and every record that was higher or lower was pitched up or down to that certain tempo and it fitted in. And sometimes they took like an LP track of 33 BPM and they speed it up to 45 minus eight pitch that was crazy really really amazing sounds they created themselves and I think that was the first underground dance sound I heard in Belgium and it's also very similar to Northern Seoul in England you know in UK you got this style Northern Seoul but that's more a tempo and faster and has a dynamic groove while popcorn music is more like a drowsy sort of lay back yet at the same time very you know dynamic sound. Okay. Later there was the new beat in Belgium also beautiful genre I really liked that. You've done so much you've became you've also made music and DJ mixes but also own productions for the fashion scene and also very special people not only for the Redfield academia but also for Walter van Bay and on the murder master. Mu mu mu please for no to put you and not to forget you were the musical director for the museum. Victor Marble presentation in Paris London and Van Gogh and Amsterdam really an exciting time around 1998 can you tell me something more about that. That's a long story I have to really like select a moment. Let me tell you just when I came to Amsterdam that was in 1976 and I came from Belgium without this huge knowledge I picked up in the clubs first of all they was all club music and I missed that sort of music in Amsterdam when I moved here permanently and there was no club no bar anywhere in Amsterdam where you could hear that music. So I decided to start it myself to rent a space and organize a party with good sound system light with dancers with flyers and posters and you know do everything myself and I thought that was the way to do it. So I can not only select my own music but I can also play it the way I want it because I think that's very important for DJ because if you're hindered by a bar owner who will say, "Yeah, you can play this, you can play that," but not that. Then it's no go area for me. I understand. The DJ has to complete freedom to do what he wants to do. Well, to a certain extent, yes. But I think you have to have freedom. But what is the freedom, because I was talking about fictitious involved, I think it's a really important part of your connection with fashion. Well, fashion, high culture, hot culture. Fashion is part of life and nightlife is the moment where you can actually dress to impress or express yourself in a way with fashion. I was from my younger years already totally intrigued and obsessed by that combination of how you look and what you do and what you listen to. And then what do you dance to? That's why you started also the Pepp Club. It's a whole combination of elements that I think are important to play the music you actually want. And the people want to hear and create an atmosphere. And create your own atmosphere. And that also means an atmosphere for queer people, for people who can be themselves, who can be anything that they want. Anybody, anywhere, but you need a good door selection. Also, I can't say that I started two clubs. First of all, the queer. I've been there. And then the Roxy. I've been there too. These were perfect door bitches. Yes. You need good door people to have a good crowd. But also the music selects the crowd. Yes, that's true. So if your music is clear and it makes a statement, people will come and check it out. And the bad people also maybe might come, you know, the people you don't want in a club or at a party. But the music, first of all, is a selection. Yeah. And then the door people. And also the people they select, you know, socially themselves. Yeah. Right. But I still didn't get an answer, how was it with working with Viktor, and often doing such a big European fashion thing? What was that? Well, Viktor Roll started as a very nice gig in Paris when I was asked to actually deliver the music for their first Couture show. And my idea was, how do you position these two totally unknown fashion designers in the capital fashion? And my idea was to have their names recorded and then repeat it and like extended in sort of like, you know, surrealistic way. So you could, I asked this Russian voice artist who they don't need like variations on the name. So you could hear Viktor and Roll. But in 100,000 variations like Viktor, that sort of, you know, crazy, crazy sound effects and manipulations of their voice, their recordings of the voice. And I was 20 minutes of only Viktor and Roll in 100,000 variations that really impressed the press. Yeah. Because afterwards everybody was talking about Viktor and Roll. Was there some music also underneath? There was just the name repeated in 100,000 variations by that woman. And that's it. I had no music, just the name. That was my idea to launch their first collection. But of course, they're, you know, the fashion, that is the most important. That's quite a statement as a DJ to not play music. It's about to, as a fashion show or whatever for a project. Do just this vocalist. Well, I think if you're responsible for a fashion show, you are absolutely under the boss, let's say the designers are the boss. Right. Or the company. I have to follow what they want to present. But I can advise. And if there's a sort of like trust or a knowledge about what you can do. And they are very adventurous fashion designers, Viktor and Roll. Yeah. They trust me to go on with that project, with the voices, only no music. And it's not only the first time I've done it. I've also worked for another collection where they had a bell on the clothing, stew to the clothing. And it was like from these little Christmas tingling, link bells to really gongs and really heavy bells. So I said, look, the clothes make the music. So why should I make music? Let the girls walk with the dresses, with the bells, and it will make a sound, which fits perfectly. I don't have to be there. mics on it. No, no mics. Just that was a sound in the room with the catwalk. And I thought that was a very good decision to not be present and just leave the clothes speak for itself. I like this very much. Thank you for explaining this to us. The art of DJing, art of playing records for people. How do you see this? How do you prepare a DJ set? Well, if you are invited for, well, come with an example. Club Brown, you did 750 years after them. You were invited just a half year ago, I think, a year ago. How do you prepare? I select my music. You don't think, I have no idea how do you prepare. I have an idea of where I'm going to play and what sort of people will be there. That variation, if I play in Bali, or I play in Brussels, or I play in Japan, or I play in Amsterdam, North. There's a selection of people. And of course, locally, it's easy to taste the sort of mood and the sort of people that will be there. So I select my music on that. And if I have no idea, then I take a broad selection. Which is sometimes very stressful. You also said, when we were preparing this conversation a week ago, you said, "I have to first like the music myself." Something you said like that. I have to get in the mood before I can give it to the people. It starts with your own self. And if I don't like, first of all, the gig, I will not accept it. If I'm in doubt about where or how difficult it is to travel or whatever. You have to make sort of like a choice. And then, first music, I select, will be the music I love. Because that's the only way I can play it. I'm not like, first of all, I only play final records. And no USB. So that makes it already different. Because you can walk in like, you know, without just hand luggage into a bar or club and play. And with me, it's different now after, you know, carry 20 kilos or 30 kilos of vinyl. How's your physiotherapist and your back? Well, I'm still pretty straight on forward. It's so strong. But you have to love the music you play to start a good DJ set. I think that's very important. And then you connect to people. Okay, cool. I want to go to four of your favorite DJ mixes. You selected for transitions. Number one, Liza and Elias. Do I pronounce it right? Liza and Elias. Interesting. Woman. It's actually a trans. Yes. I read that too. I saw on Wikipedia born on my like a man. I think that's what stands on Wikipedia set. And she, well, sorry to say she died a few years ago. She was 42 years old. At the, you know, moment of her career started booming. And then she died of lung cancer. So, yeah, I mean, Liza and Elias, for me, she has always been a very important figure because she actually influenced me a lot with her personality, first of all, and her music, second. And then she's also Belgium, which makes it even better. The mix is called the trilogy of forbidden seduction. It's 1992, on the way up on Belgium. Tape one, eject into space mix, side one, mind elevation. Belgium Hardcore and Gabor Speedcore producer DJ, says Wikipedia, born in 1958 in Ostendor, died lung cancer in 2001, Antwerpa. Tell me something about this mix mix. Did you know? Or why is this mix one of your favorites? Liza and Elias, of course, had no really output for their productions because this is like totally self-produced and self-distributed. So, the cassettes I got from Liza and Elias was via mail, you know, post. Yeah. And I was enveloped, put it in an envelope, even in an envelope, with the stamp on it. But she sent this to me, no, it's not via email or something, because this is 1992. And there was no email at that time, I believe, not in the Netherlands yet, I was with 95, I think. So I got a package with two cassettes and a letter. And she was writing this to me because I was booking at a club proxy as a manager, right? And I was not only the DJ. I was also the creative director for club proxy at that time, yes. She wrote that she was doing all these like new productions that came out on the label Atom. And I was also distributed by an Antwerp company, and she had these new mixes as a DJ. She wanted to play at Roxy. That's why she sent me this cassette. And believe me, there's only one copy of this distributed to another person in the world. And I think this is the one because she kept, of course, the recordings. It was done in the studio. And it was not just playing the records. She also muted and transformed the whole set through synthesizer setup that went along with her playing the records. And that makes it very different from another DJ set, because it's a mix between a live artist performing with records made by somebody else. And she also played her own productions in that set. And yes, it's called hardcore, it's called, you know, for me it's like, okay, hard style. But there's a lot of emotion and soul, in my opinion, in that music. She was also already a turntable as she was played, but for vinyl turntables. Well, as I said, she had a synthesizer setup next to her turntables. And working like that makes it also different from a regular DJ. Although these days, it's more like, let's say we're not 2026, right? And these days, that whole definition of a DJ has completely changed, how? Almost within, let's say, ten years, it has changed from just playing, you know, other people's records into mixing your own with other people's records. Exactly. Because of the digital revolution of all equipment, et cetera. Or well, we live in a digital age, and we have access to anything in the world available. And people can easily download it and put it together. But transforming those mixes of putting other people's records together, it's totally different when you play yourself, music over that sort of mix. And that is what Liza Neelias did. Cool. And that, for me, is, you know, very different. And it was an eye-opener, actually, when I received those cassettes. Do you still like vinyl more than digital? Yes. Why? It's more physical. And it has a certain, like, well, let's say it's not nostalgic. But there's a lot of difference in sound, first of all, if you play records and you play in USB stick, for me, that's like heaven or hell. Yeah. Oh, I don't like USB DJs. No? No. No, I can understand. But nowadays, I was like that too, at ten, fifteen years ago, but nowadays, digital sounds are so qualitatively high. And early days, you had MP3 and that really sounded shitty, shitty, shitty. Yes. Final two. But it all depends on the technician or the sound system they have in a room or club. And we played together, actually, at the Hart Museum during those jazz afternoon. And I know that you played USB. And I played CD. And then you actually forced me to play USB. And I liked it. But I don't like the sound of USB. It's too compressed. It's not the same experience, I think, as a good quality pressing. Final. I'm pressing. Okay. Okay. We're going to mix number two, DJ Olivier Peters. And that's one of the man who started, I think, you have to correct me later, maybe. Started a famous club, Bokaccio. And just to Bergen, do I say that in the right way? Yes. And that's a mix from 1986, and I listened to it this morning. It was a beautiful Belgium new beat. It's a great dance on it in the MOTSO in the 80s. Really? Yes, in the 80s. We had some DJs in the MOTSO, and I'm so damn, who also didn't bring their own collection, but we had a wall of vinyl behind them, who was their owner, but the vinyl ordered. Yeah, that was fun. That was fun. Yeah. The DJs bought the vinyl properly at the British, and they brought it, and they got it. But they had to leave it over there, which is really interesting. Tell me something more about Belgium new beat and the Bokaccio. Bokaccio was the club where it started, and it's not just the only club. There were more clubs in Antwerp, you had the I&B, Amsterdam, Belgium. And that's very important, because not many people realized that it was like a whole moment in time of where the music started to develop into a new sound in Belgium. And that's already started in 1984, because I went to these clubs, and I heard this change into a certain regime, you know, it became like almost military regime, to play that sort of music, and everybody in the clubs was doing it, because it got more and more success. And it started actually by accident. And yeah, one DJ played it, you know, in slow-action, he played the record slower, and it was actually meant to be 45, but the guy played it at 33 plus 8, and it sounded amazing. And the crowd was totally flabbergasted that night. It was at Ancien, Belgium, in Antwerp. And some music in Brussels? Yeah. And that's where the flame was lit, you know, it was totally. The same style, actually, they did in the popcorn, like 20 years earlier. That's a typical Belgian regime to slow down, pitch up, and you know, the whole thing, as long as it fits in that sound. So Ancien, the DJ started it with Bocacia coming up as a big, you know, superclub that was totally actually built to play techno and new beat. And it's, if you say, superclub, how many hundreds or thousands of people you're thinking of then? I think there was easily 2,000 people inside on the Saturday night, yeah. And they stayed until Monday night. Yeah, the Belgium does have closing times. There are no closing times. I know. There were no closing times. Now they are, but in, you know, in 1984, 1986, it was open until everybody was gone. Yeah, I know. So you can imagine when it became popular, Bocacia drew crowds from Holland, from France, from Germany, everywhere from Belgium, everybody came there, who loved new beat. And they started on Saturday, you know, 10 o'clock, and it went on and on until Monday night. And you could come in in the morning at 8, 9 o'clock, and it was still packed, packed. And that sound went on and on and on. You will not believe the same tempo for a set of 12 hours. It is a BPM of around 100, I think? Around 100, yeah. And it was very like, you went inside and it became like a horror place in a way because it was so impressive with the room, you know, the whole club was built with black marble, with mirrors, with laser, they had a tree collar laser, and it was only like, you know, packed with people moving everywhere, they had like stages and bars, areas and dance floors, but it was a whole experience that was so intimidating. The first time I came there, I already had a club, Roxy, and I took people from club Roxy because they, at the beginning of house music here in Amsterdam, people, even in my own club, were not, but Cassier started earlier before the Roxy, oh, Cassier was already a club in the 70s, yeah, but the new beat started in 1984, 1984. So when I, Roxy started '86, Roxy opened in 1986, but I had to really go with a bus of my own people from, you know, the bar, staff and the people from the management and the door people who convinced them, and DJs, I took everybody to club, because I wanted to prove that that electronic style of music was possible to play in the Roxy, since I was playing house, but it was really very, very tough because people didn't like it. And people were not convinced of the fact that house music, electronic dance music, would be the main genre, and I took them to Bocazier to see, and then they believed, but they still took a year before us to take off. Yeah, in your book I read also that you, and it was so hard to start with, because music can you keep comp comp comp comp comp comp comp comp comp comp comp comp continuing and you said you don't have to pay me for two, three months and I will continue with this music I like. Well, you know, I started the club because I wanted to play my own music. That's always been my idea, you know, since the disco parties in Amsterdam. And the cool proxies was the next and Pep Club that was in between. But I started my own club to play the music I want to play. And I was in the Roxie was house music. So to electronic dance music, also not only to play your music, but also to create a kind of atmosphere and a vibe for people like wise. Of course. Exactly. It's a combination of the Pep Club in the Brakehont. I think that's what that started over there. Yeah, the Brakehont, you know, that was a disco area in 1977. Yeah. We really switching time zones here. I'm not sure if people still can follow. Oh, yes. Yeah. Let's go back to Bocacio. Yeah. Because for me, that was like a major experience, not only because I could convince my own staff, you know. But for me, it was like the beginning of an eye opener. I could visualize a club working like that. But in a friendlier way, because Bocacio was kind of hard. He had this like really deep, dark moods when you came in, and music was also following that. And that was created by those DJs, Olivier Peters and, you know, his staff. There were a lot of people playing there. It was not just Olivier Peters, but he defined a new beat with his selection. And that went from everywhere. I mean, was our space music really? But that he also did you all over the world? I'm not sure he was a resident of Bocacio, so I guess he was there every weekend. So they wouldn't pay him fortune to keep him inside, but a new beat went all over the world. Yeah. But it was a certain moment. It became like a very commercial, very commercial style of music. That was copied very easily because it was easy to make, right? We just needed a few samples and a synthesizer and a voice, and that's about it. And there was no musicality, there was not, you know, it was not really interesting music in terms of musical elevation or, you know, compositions. It was just easy dance music. So suddenly you were confronted by these commercial acts that were that was more suitable for circus or for some, you know, children playgrounds, you know, became very stupid music, actually, in the end. Oh yeah. In 1988, '89, it started, you know, going down very easily. And it died. It died completely. Oh yeah, died completely out. I think I saw, there was a recently a compilation a few years ago recently. Yeah, last year there was a whole new box set with CDs in the final, and it was mixed by Olivier Peters, about all the classics, all the classic from new beat here. Did you listen to it? Of course. I know all these records. And mostly, they're in my own collection as well. Yeah. Okay. You have. I have been a few times in your DJ studio at your home in Amsterdam, and I'm always very impressed with all the records you have there, also how you archive everything, and I really like that, how the way you have one closet of boxes with all cypher singles, and I really loved one box with singles, but more than 50 or 60, completely old James Brown singles. Yeah. I love that. Well, the thing is James Brown, for me, was a very, very, very big influence as well, because of the dance groups that I created in the '50s already. And I knew that style of music already in Belgium, in the pop core. Yeah. I mean, sometimes groove by, you know, although it was not meant to be a funk club, they also played that funky style, but that's the groove of certain rhythms. And the same thing in Bocazio, because if you listen to the cassette, there's a moment after 40 minutes that Olivier Peters is dropping James Brown in Bocazio, and has nothing to do with new beat futuristic electronic music, he just played funky drummer by James Brown. And I think that's also giving an indication of how this funk element moves in that music that's not actually funk. And is that interesting, I think? Is that also what a DJ needs to do to play or tease with their audience? Oh, yeah. I believe that. You have to have a basic groove in your body and your mind and your soul. You cannot change within time, like I did, from 1977, up to 2026, and then still play the music. Now, but it will also mean life on the dance floor, do you do that too? You have these few records when I'm going to play that, but those records are going to go for it. Well, that's sometimes not working. Sometimes, you drop a tune and you think, oh, well, it worked last night, and it worked well, we before, and now tonight, hey, it doesn't work. Then you select another one. That might work. And sometimes it works all very well, most of the time. But sometimes some records don't appeal to that crowd, which is possible. I saw you DJing at the opening of the exhibition of Ines and Vinut, from the famous Dutch photographer's work already for more than 25, 30 years in New York, and do a lot of portraits of all famous people, not everybody might know them, but they asked you to perform over there at the opening of the Kunstmuseum in the Haag, and of course you, everybody walks in, you slow, you take it easy in the middle, but in the end, almost when, I think, one o'clock or so, one o'clock. You were still there. I was still there. Yeah. And when I was, I think I was dancing. Yeah, you had some really cool records going on, and everybody was dancing was a lot of groove. Well, it was not meant to be a dance party, first of all. No, but came there because it was an opening of the exhibition of Ines and Vinut. And I know these two, since I started in Amsterdam in 1976, I got acquainted and became friends. And Ines also introduced me to Victor and Rolf for their first Koutier show. So we're very, you know, easily on terms. But about this opening, well, it was an opening where the bar and food and people came from the exhibition, and they just drank, and I thought it's going to last like two hours or something, they started. It was one of the most popular opening museums, openings of the year. Yes, I think Vinut and you, everybody, where some people were invited, other people could buy tickets, very smartly done, everybody was super dressed, and everybody wanted to be there. And we were like, who was DJing there? Me, Eddie DeClaire. But look, if you talk about selections and what to expect, I think that was a very good example, because I selected my music on the career of Ines and Vinut. And they worked for 45 years together on this exhibition. So I started going back in my collection of music, and I came, you know, with disco and new wave, and I came with some funky, punky stuff. And also the modern electronic dance, you know, up to, let's say, the The Farset Trance. I took just because I didn't know what to expect. And then you build on the moods of the crowd, and, you know, you can see people reacting to the music, which is very important. I always check one or two guys or ladies in the crowd, even the bar people, I think, are very important, because these have to work all night, and they can transmit the kind of positive energy. Yes. And if I want to create positive, you know, moods, I can buy music. So that's what I did. I turned out to be a huge dance party. Yeah. Yeah. I had the feeling I was in a New York warehouse party, which is something which we're going to talk about now. The mixed tree is Larry Lever, Planet Radio 1990. It's not recorded in New York, but he's from New York. This was recorded in Radio FM 8012, Osaka, Japan. You got that on a cassette too. Yes. It's one of my treasures I will ever keep forever. Larry Lever, of course, is the main DJ of the Paradise Garage in New York. And he. You've been there. Oh, yeah. I've been there many times. When he was DJing there. The garage, yeah. I heard him live. I even been in his DJ booth upstairs, the first floor that was his DJ booth. And I was invited by a guy from the record company and said, "Hey, we're going to see Larry." So I went up the stairs and we arrived in this apartment. And there were a lot of people there, always like people from the record companies and artists and friends and lovers and dealers and everybody was there. And he played this set of tricks. Three turntables, and Larry was also accompanied by a synthesizer player who was playing next to him while he was mixing life, and then the guy played synths over his mix, which was mainly consisting of instrumental dub and disco, you know, B-sides, disco mixes, totally extended mixes. And with this synthesizer player, I forgot his name, but they formed a group, The Peach Boys, the New York City Peach Boys, and they released quite some, you know, good productions together. But Larry Le Van was the main DJ, and he created the sound system together with a builder in New York, Richard Long. Tell me something more about where did Larry Le Van come from? He died young too. But tell me, he was New Yorker, Brooklyn, whatever. No, he's a New Yorker. New Yorker, Jamaican, New Yorker. He died, of course, he's a long time gone, but his legacy lives on, you know. Yeah, I'm curious how young was he, when was that in, which time was that in New York when he was? I was in 1978, 1979, the garage opened around that time. And it was no alcohol, you know, they had no license. So no license club. There was no alcohol, the only sort of, you know, juices and water. In the evening or afternoon or no. No, it was a nightclub. But the club was built around the sound system that was built by Richard Long. And I'd really like to finish this because the sound system there was, for me, that was, I had already an I-Nope opener with Bukaccio, but the garage, that was from the perfect sound system. You will not believe the quality of that sound system. And Richard Long, who built it, he was actually asked to rebuild a sound system like that in England for ministry of sound later on. But the sound system originally was the main attraction of the club. And Levant controlled it. He was his sound. And that's amazing because the sound system can become like an entity, like a person. And really that spoke to you in a way that it's hard to explain. It's a spiritual thing. But the sound was so amazingly good that the record sounded even better. And then what Levant did with that sound system, like you know, turning down the highs or turning down the bass and then pumping it up or, you know, leaving certain elements out. It was just just playing with the audience. It was magical. It was really, really magical. So, that's what I learned about you have to respect a good sound system and go for a good sound system, which I also wanted in my own club, the Roxy and earlier the Cooer. But that's a different situation, of course. Expansive also. Yeah, not just the cost, but also the possibilities, you know, in New York, you can build a sound system because in that club it was an old garage where buses were parked. So there were no neighbors. You could have any sort of like sound without disturbing anyone. But that's New York. It was 1978, Larry Levant, New York. That was disco time still? That was disco time. Yeah, it was the time of, you know, Studio 54 and the high energy, you know, the disco music that came out. But Levant, Larry, he played underground disco. Not your, you know, sat in night fever, trash, he played real good dance music. And just like David Mucuso in New York, that was his like godfather of that sort of style of music. He created the sort of mix, the selection of music that he played without, let's say, listening to the commercial side of things, it was his own sound, his own selection. And that's why I went, you know, you specially, you went to New York and you had to see Larry Levant. Of course, because I could also go to Studio 54 or Xenon or whatever club at that time. But you could hear that sort of music everywhere on the radio in the clubs. Everybody played the same. It was great being a Studio 54, but it was different than being in garage. Larry Levant, he's, for me, is also very into the groove and very eclectical. So he makes different styles you don't even have. Where are we now? Oh, yeah, he was famous for that because that was his forte. That was his power to introduce a record like Yoko Ono walking on sea nice. Can you believe it? I heard in the Paris garage. I heard it in Paris garage. It was mixed with Kraftwerk, France Europe Express and then Yoko Ono. He was, I think, he was the guy who actually started the mashups, no? Well, mashup is a different story, but he did what actually house became. He mixed already in the same sort of vibe, with his long instrumental build-up and then suddenly there's a change in the rhythm and groove and bass. It was also, let's say, deconstructed disco music. It was deconstructed disco. Did he play records or did he only final? Yeah, he didn't. He also produced, made things different. Yes. And he did to release those cell-dose records. Well, he worked as a remixer for a lot of labels, especially West End, Salsa at the time, you know. And that's why all these people from the record companies were in his DJ booth upstairs because they brought test pressings and demos and lacquers and all that. And he played it just first. The check right from the pressing phase. Yes, I know that. Ronnie Seis did that always, which is German bass and a London with black first pressing and then straight to the club and see how the audience likes it. Exactly. And that's the way he did it. He was playing his own productions also together with people's music. But he was famous for this build-up disco music. Where are you getting to number four? DJ Jef Kalabaugh, do I say this right? Yes. Jef Kalabaugh sounds flammish to me, but a mix. Live at Pébaugh, the flamser's mark Amsterdam, 2000 Jave, popcorn. Is that true? Well, DJ Jef Kalabaugh is one of the main key DJs from the popcorn in France and Belgium. You maybe have noticed that my main influence of Belgium's. Yeah. I see that. So it's easy to say, but Kalabaugh for me was like one of the guys who played the sound I fell in love with. And he's still his play. And I invited him to come to Amsterdam in 2007. And we played together. And at that moment, where was that? It was a restaurant in Pébaugh in the north, south, us. It's not, it doesn't exist anymore, but it was a nice brasserie type of, you know, big, big place, brasserie. And they had a great kitchen and a good sound system. So I decided to ask Jef Kalabaugh to come there and play with me, popcorn music, because I was celebrating also my own cooking. You're a cook, too. I'm a cook. But I was cooking there. And then later on, we started the party. And it was fantastic. I really, really enjoyed his set. And he brought a whole bus of people from, really, yes, they were like 25 people. And they booked a table for the restaurant and they stayed for the party and my friends came and a lot of people came there. And it was very spontaneous, beautiful light with great music. And the sort of music I grew up with, as I said, you know, soul, jazz, car, Latin, soundtracks, crooner from the beginning of the day. And he's then also a person who mixes that perfectly of how does it work or is it more eclectically like, oh, mix, fuck the technique mix. And in a certain way, it's not important. You have to first of all, select what you like to hear, what you love and play it. And it does matter if it's fitting within the beat, the tempo, you know, all that sort of shitty technique things. Call about plays a groove. And you can follow the groove because it's stays in that groove. He stays in that groove. It is logical. And he will hear mixes that are not 100% perfect. But I think that's also his power, you know, and also my power. Yeah, then we come back to the art of DJing and I told you before I was living in Belgium a long time ago, think 20 years ago and on to happen. And also experienced their different scene. I like Belgium very much. It's a very more, much more creative country musically, not only musically, but then the Netherlands. And I also noticed in those days that that DJs sometimes were playing a player that DJ said and they forgot to put a new record on because they were talking to him. Nice girl! The fans told us no music and they had to stop. They fell asleep on the mic. That's possible, you can also faint. I've seen that in Italy after our clubs. But look, DJ is not a machine right now. And nowadays with us B and the new mixing boards and panels and all that. It's all done for you. You don't have to mix. It's already set. It gets easy. Possibility. I'm not saying that's my sort of way. I don't mix like that. I mix and I can mix, but I'm not focused only on the perfect mix. So the art of DJ is also like your four favorites, one, two, three, Belgium and one New York. It's also the selection. It's all about selection. That's where it starts. I mean every DJ I ever really look up to, like David Macuso, he did not even have headphones. He had one turn table, another turn table, and he put records on. And then it was a mix of yes, he had to change. But he just played it. And sometimes there was even a pause in between or something fell off or fell over it or whatever. It was not a perfect way to listen to it. But what you heard was so amazing, so inspiring. And I think that's where it all starts. If you can't deliver that, you can rely on whatever, but I think that makes a good DJ. You'll deal there, touch, put, I don't know. He DJed like that too without a headphone. And also like nowadays with all this IE possibilities. I mean I wonder can an IE agent be a DJ? Is it possible for an IE agent to play a crowd like in let's say a festival or something? I wonder. Because there's of course a playlist you have on Spotify and the algorithms on YouTube and all that. But what does it do to you? I understand what you mean. I think it's going to happen. I only think people won't like to dance on the dance floor of Lowlands or another festival club watching a DJ who's a robot. So they don't want to do that. Why not? I don't think they're going to like that. This is a machine playing for us. You know what I mean? A human being is not a machine. And a machine cannot have the same emotions or the spontaneity or some ideas that come from within a mind of a human being. For me it's always been like that. You know you're very much depending on every aspect of the time and the moment where you are. And I'm not programmed to play that and that and that because you have to adapt. And I think an IE agent is not really it's possible to do that. I don't think it's going to be nice, but I think it's going to happen. And I think I will everybody will be and will prefer a human human DJ. But I'm absolutely convinced that economically the evolution you can't. Yes. This is going to happen. Another question. How do you, but you're more than 50 years career more than I think. How do you look at club life, night life, those old days or in middle days or whatever. And nowadays you've done also the club realm at 750 years in Amsterdam. You did play there at around 12 o'clock at night clock. No, two, one, two. Very busy. How are you? Is it so different than what you think of night life these days. I think it's adapting adapting to the situation in the world and especially in Amsterdam where you have so many regulations and rules of the government and the city that were not there when I started. Yeah, volume DB. You can't play that loud anymore. Well, that's good. They try to condense the sound a bit. The level of the how hard how loud, you know, sometimes the music is. But you don't need a loud sound system to sound good. You know, that's what I learned in the Paradise Garage. It was not that loud. Oh, no. It was just perfect. How do you describe perfection? Well, at that moment, I heard perfection and it's always been on my, you know, my radar, how the sound works. You don't have to need this. I think the only club in Amsterdam where I really experienced that sort of sounds similar was at a realm last. Yes, I must give that credit. Very good sounds. Yes, amazing. I heard also read something about that clubs are going to play lower volume and lower DB and more getting more into the fine and fine tuning of the sound. The sound quality also because a lot of people have problems with earplugs and they don't want the earplugs anymore. It's good that people are being protected. But you still want to hear the full experience, right, if you listen to music. And nowadays, like in Amsterdam and the rest of the country and I think in the world, I mean, especially in Japan. The sound quality is very important, like listening bars. If you go to listening bars where people sit and listen, except talking and drinking. That's a totally new experience for us Westerners, you know, we don't know that. We always like to drink and talk while we listen to the music. And that's changing nowadays with that listening bar experience. And I think even in clubs, it will become more and more frequent that people will put a lot of attention to the quality of the sound rather than the volume. Nice, nice. Thank you, Eddie the Clarke. This was Eddie the Clarke, one of the most famous DJs in the Netherlands with a very legend reputation. And my name is DJ Van Roestl. Thank you. We did this for transitions.