Trades! Myles Garrett and A.J. Brown Dealt in Blockbuster Moves

[MUSIC] >> Welcome to the Ringer NFL Show, I'm your host, Shield Capadia, a wild day in the NFL, two blockbuster trades. Miles Garrett goes from the Cleveland Browns to the Los Angeles Rams, totally unexpected, and then the expected move. AJ Brown gets traded from the Philadelphia Eagles to the New England Patriots. We finally find out the compensation. And so we had to break down those trades from every single angle. In great detail, we have my friend, Deante Lee from the Ringer to talk about it. Let's take a break. We'll come right back with Deante. [MUSIC] All right, we are back here on the Ringer NFL Show with my friend Deante Lee. Deante has to be the most eventful June 1st. I don't know if it's an NFL history, certainly during my podcast career, a wild day in the NFL. >> 100%. I can't remember the last time we were actually counting down to a certain time on June 1st. But with the AJ Brown trade, it's like everybody knew, okay, four Eastern. We're all going to be waiting by our phones, like for the notification. Obviously, the Miles Garrett trade earlier this morning was a much bigger shock to the system. But yeah, I would say in my lifetime, the most I think I've ever had to care about something happening after June 1st in my life. >> Incredible. It's like the new start of freeing CR. We're going to break down the two monster trades in the NFL. We got to start with Miles Garrett, because like Deante said, AJ Brown, we've talked a lot about AJ Brown. We will get to that trade. Don't get me wrong. But Miles Garrett, just a blockbuster. I don't want to say totally out of nowhere, but kind of out of nowhere. We weren't doing three episodes saying, let's come up with fake Miles Garrett trades 10 days ago. So the Browns are sending Miles Garrett to the Rams for Jared first, a 2027 first, a 2028 second, and a 2029 third in a blockbuster deal. We'll do it team by team, Deante. So let's start with the Rams side of this. I will give you the floor. You saw this trade. I know you said your jaw dropped to the floor when you saw it. From the Rams perspective, how pumped should they be? Does it make sense? Is this a, hey, you're stealing the headlines, but two years from now, you might regret this. Where do you come down on this trade? You're kind of big takeaway from the Rams perspective. >> I mean, I'll lay this out probably in greater detail in writing this week. But the first thing I thought about was Randy Moss in New England. Like that was the immediate context I funneled this through. And around the same age, Randy Moss was about 30 years old when he got traded from Oakland to New England. You see Miles Garrett, nine years in the league, 30 years old, being moved from Cleveland to Los Angeles. And those were two veterans. Obviously, Randy had some more off-the-field stuff that I think people were concerned about. In terms of maturity and how it was behaving within the building. But you think about two all-time great talents that are kind of wasting away with franchises that are lost in the middle of a rebuild that clearly don't need to have high-priced veterans on their books. And I think that we talked about this before Super Bowl 59, a couple of years ago when Miles Garrett first put in his trade or press before he got paid. Which is that to maximize the rest of his career, a contender should be looking for this guy. And when I saw the news, obviously, once the shock wore off, all of it made sense. This is probably the perfect landing spot for someone like Miles Garrett. He's going to have the best quarterback he's ever dealt with in his life. He's going to have a collection of talent that's very similar to what it was at the peak in Cleveland, in my opinion, right? You're going to have Trent McDuffie to kind of be his Denzel Ward. You've got another ed rusher and Byron Young. You've got Kobe Turner playing on the interior. All the pieces line up for Los Angeles and Miles Garrett to feel like this is the year that we make that magic happen again. We're going to go be champions of Miles Garrett. I think should expect to be stamped, you know, as an all-time great by making a championship level impact on this team. I love that Moss comparison. I hadn't thought of that. That is a good one. A team that was already good, that was already a favorite to win the Super Bowl, even before this trade, just saying, hey, when you can get a Hall of Fame player who still has great years left, go ahead and get them in. The point you made about the support in Castellante, I haven't done like a player by player comparison every year. But my gut instinct was he's going to have more help with this Rams defense than he's ever had before in Cleveland. And they've had some great defenses in Cleveland multiple years under Jim Schwartz. But just when you look at the defensive line, and what are those graphs that we see every year with the double team rate, and it's like, oh, there's Miles Garrett like in one corner of the NFL and then everybody else, that's what makes his performance so impressive is that it's not like he had two other guys, three other guys on the defensive line in Cleveland most years where you say, all right, who's an offensive line going to give attention to? Please, Miles Garrett and you could get away with chipping him or double teaming him or sliding your protection or whatever you want to do. And teams are still going to do that. But now you have partners who can really make opponents pay when they do that. Like you mentioned, Byron Young, Kobe Turner, Braden Fisk, I mean, this Rams organization has been investing in that past rush, investing in that defensive line over and over again. And so if you're a Rams fan, you're like, this is great. This is a, what is it, what are they, a force multiplier as the hipster say in football terms? This is a force multiplier. All those guys, they might be sad to see Jared first go. Very good player. We'll get to that side of it in a couple of minutes here. But you get, we can, I can just flat outside the best defensive player in football. You know, I think in any given year, if you want to give me a micaparsins, you can give me a micaparsins. To me, it's been a two person race between those two, not only the best player, the biggest game record, I would say in football, where you're just going to feel him, he can take over a game. 23 sacks last year has been a first team all pro in five of the last six seasons. And the team that was already the Super Bowl favorite just added that guy. I mean, I don't want to, you know, I don't know, dream team and hyperbally and all that. But there's none of that here. This is all real that the, that the team that was supposed to win the Super Bowl, according to the betting markets, now added the best defensive player in the NFL. 100%, and I can further the Moss comparisons here. You think about where the Patriots were in the mid 2000s, they went in 2004. You know, there's the illegal contact rule changes that happened the season prior. They have an aging defense that couldn't just muscle teams up after those rules changes. And you started to see the Steelers break through. You saw them lose to the Broncos in 2005. You see the Colts come back from a 18 point deficit and beat them by playing this spread out style of offense that New England just couldn't match because they didn't have enough playmaking talent. The Colts go on with a bad defense and leading on their offense at that air in that era. And that was one of the first times we really saw a past first style of offense going on a title. I bring that up in relation to this because if you're the Rams, you're looking across the NFC and you see the two teams that have beaten us in the last two post seasons to go on and win a title did so by having a complete pass rush unit up front and really kind of basing their championship run off of having these excellent defenses. And if you look at the NFC title game last year, very directly, it was clear that the only reason the Rams were not in the Super Bowl is because they could not get a stop. It's not because Matthew Stafford didn't come, didn't show up. It's not because Sean McVey made bad decisions on fourth down. I actually thought that was one of his better fourth down decision making games. Ultimately, they couldn't get a stop when they needed it. They gave up points right before halftime. They gave up points basically on every drive of the first half. When the Rams were always chasing, this is an opportunity, I think, for them to change the pendulum, to change the paradigm, how they approach things and be able to lean on their run game, which they already clearly established last year as one of the more efficient ones that we've seen. If you're looking at success rate, right, as your ultimate metric, they were one of the best in that respects. And now you went and added a bonafide pass rush guys that when you have a lead in games, you can turn the miles, Garrett and say, go bring us home, right? I think that that's absolutely what the expectation is. And the other thing that I think gets lost in this for as great as miles, Garrett's production is, you have to remember, he was losing every week, and he was still putting up defensive player of the year numbers, contesting a sack record, breaking the sack record, in spite of the fact that his team was almost never in games by the time we got late in the fourth quarter. Now you're telling me that the best pure pass rusher in the NFL might have enough leads to be able to pin his ears back after half time, because they're going to be up by two scores. They're going to be up late in the fourth quarter and teams are going to have to pass. And that guy is on the other side, combined with all of the talent that he's playing beside. There's an opportunity, I think, for this team to be the same kind of world breaking talent that the Patriots were in 2007, if everything goes right. >> Yeah, I was so pumped for him when he requested the trade. I think we were like, good, request the trade. We don't want to see you waste your career away in a place where you're not going to win. And then it was like, well, we'll offer you a lot of money to say. And he was like, I'll stay. And I'm like, I get it, but I still would rather you go somewhere else where you're playing in big time, playoff games, even regular season games against big time opponents. I mean, he's going up against Kyle Shanahan. He's now going up against Sean McVey and Matthew Stafford. He's going up against other teams in the NFC. And you mentioned the way that the Rams lost that playoff game to the Seahawks. And it's so football is hard to analyze in some ways because of the small samples and the recency bias and all that, because you're absolutely right. I mean, you can't write the story of the Seahawks Super Bowl run without saying Sam Darnold Cooked the race. defense in that playoff game. And he didn't have a big margin for error because the Rams offense actually won the battle against the Seahawks defense. They were the only team really that could do that, but they didn't win because their defense couldn't get a stop against CM Darnal. And I think that had to be in Sean McVase head here. He obviously hasn't forgotten that at the same time, Dianna, I was looking at the Rams just in general their performance last year defensively. They were fourth and defensive DVOA last year. Now, that can be a little schedule and all that. They weren't as strong in the other metrics, but there was a time last year. And I think they got worse as kind of the season went on. And then the playoffs for sure, what they were doing, what they were just putting out there at cornerback. It was like that's going to get exposed unless your pass rush absolutely dominates. But it's not like it was a terrible defense. This isn't like there was the Cowboys defense last year or anything. At the very worst, this was a mediocre defense last year that now has added Trent McDuffie, Jalen Watts in a corner. You address your biggest weakness. And then you had Miles Garrett, who we just talked about the impact he can have. So yeah, they have a like it's not crazy to think they could have a top five defense in the NFL. And I think as long as Matthew Stafford's healthy and Sean McVase on the sideline, they're going to have a top five offense in the NFL. And that just put, you know, how many teams can actually say that realistically as we sit here at the beginning of June. So I think my bottom line here, well, one other thing I want to mention, just in terms of whether they're all in or not. Because I think this is actually an interesting conversation. You would say, of course, she'll, they're all in. Miles Garrett entering his age 31 season, he signed through 2030. This is another interesting part of the trade here because his guaranteed money only goes through 2027. So if you're someone who says, well, you might be in decline, like, it's, they're tied to him for two years. Now, I think he'll probably be on the Rams much longer than that. He signed through 2030. But you actually aren't, you know, it's not prohibitive to part ways with him. Like, let's say these next two years don't go well. You bring in Tyson Sin, you realize, hey, we don't have a lot of young talent on the roster anymore. We need to take a step back here. You actually can move on with Miles Garrett. And it's not really going to handcuff you from a cap perspective. So I thought that was interesting. But the other part of the all-in conversations, Yante, Rams fans, cover your ears. This is a happy day for you. But is it just me or does the Tyson Sin pick make even less sense now? Miles Garrett trade. Oh, my God. Give me your takes. I think there will be a little bit of a spin on, no, no, she'll, this is why it does make sense. I don't buy it. But I saw you say, well, let me take the floor and then. Let me, let me, I kind of try to lay that out. I remember the morning after day one of the draft, right? We're all kind of, you know, reeling, trying to understand like, oh, it's David Bailey instead of Arville Reese to the Jets and all these trades and, you know, Jalen Waddle is a Bronco now and who got picked where. And obviously the Tyson Sin pick probably lords above all of that as the biggest conversation piece. And I just remember watching get up that morning and Peter Shreger, who like to me, if there's anything Rams related outside of Jordan Rodriguez, I want to know what the guy who was that Sean McBase wedding has to say about the Rams. And the one thing he pointed out that was very Brian Winhorse's S was making this pick right now opens the Rams up to be more aggressive with how they look at their 2027 and 2028 picks. And the moment that I thought about that, it was very much a why would he say that? Yeah. Situation. Now at that time, I was still thinking the Rams want to add on offense. Maybe they go out and shop for an AJ Brown, right? And that was reporting at that time that they were kind of kicking the tires. I was trying to try and to sift through what I thought was real and what was fake between whether they were scared off by injury concerns or his contract and all of those things. I never really thought about it being someone like Miles Garrett, but I will say when you go out and make a pick like bringing in Tyson Sin, once you divorce yourself from the evaluation of him as a player, right? Whether or not you think he's going to be an above average starter, whether or not you think he's going to be a championship level starter in the league, all of that to the side. What it did do was incubate the Rams from always having to be all in past 2026 and 2027 because now you can say, you know, realistically, if you're less need, I have my quarterback of the future to hand the soft to Matthew Stafford's done being a quarterback here. Now, will that work out? I don't know, but I do believe if I'm sneed, if I'm sneed, I feel like I've protected myself on both ends. I feel like I have the best play collar in the NFL. I have one of the five best quarterbacks in the NFL, maybe the best pure pocket passer in the league. I have built a great running game. I built a great offensive line, you know, and a great offensive line to not only can move the ball on the ground, but can protect my 38 year old quarterback. All I really needed to do was take care of my defense. I went out and I got Trent McDuffey and Jayla Watson to address my biggest needs as you mentioned, but I'm also looking and I'm thinking Jared verse did kind of take a step back in the second half of last season, strictly from a converting pressures to sax and quarterback's hits perspective. Nothing he was a bad player, still good against the run. He will still generate pressures for you, but he wasn't the closer that I think you wanted to see for a Super Bowl contender. And I think it's possible that you just looked around and said, I want to take one more big swing and I know my quarter rack situation is handled in the future. So I can go out and do that in that respect. I can buy it. Obviously Simpson is the linchpin here that makes it work or not work, but I can buy the logic that bringing in Tyson Simpson now does at does allow you to be more aggressive on the margins of the roster and bringing in high impact players on the other side of the ball like we saw them do this off season. Yeah, you could argue that you know, you could say even if this doesn't or even if Stafford falls off here, we still have a great team around a rookie quarterback and we just all with Drake may last year. We've seen in other instances that you know what, you have a great coach, you have a great play collar, you have great supporting talent. You can put that that rookie quarterback in position to succeed because you're not paying him a lot of money. So to your point, you could say, hey, we can trade our 2027 pick. We have our quarterback now. I just feel like now, maybe it's my procrastination, my pro procrastinating nature, but I would have been in the room going guys, guys, guys, we will be able to find a veteran quarterback that will want to come to Los Angeles to play with Sean McVey, this offense, LA, our defense. I know we don't know who that person is now, but I'm going to live with the uncertainty a little bit because we just extend, we're going to extend Matthew Stafford. We're looking at two years with Matthew Stafford. Let's just see how it goes. There will be a, there will be the next, it might not be the next Matthew Stafford. It could be the next Sam Darnel type. It could be that type of player. And guess what? We have an infrastructure for that person to succeed versus taking a 50, 50 chance on a guy like Ty Simpson, where I understand it. If it hits now, you're not paying him a lot of money and you're looking really smart. Again, that outcome could play out and they could look like the smartest team in the NFL. But Deante, I also look at it that the margins are so slim in the NFL. And as much as the Rams look like a, you know, a powerhouse now, if you just look at kind of the betting odds, they're odds to win a Super Bowl or what? Like 11% or something. I think that they dropped like plus 550. Yeah. Even when you're the favorite. So the margins are so slim that I still think there's a good chance we're at some point next year, where we're going to have a great team. They're so close. But oh, it's the reason that they didn't hoist the Lombardi could, could there be a week where we say, man, multiple weeks, a month, a playoff game, a drive, a possession where we say, man, they could have really used wide receiver X here, offensive guard. Why here? Whatever it is, build some depth there. Even if it's a guy, you don't have a vision for right away, just kind of almost some insurance as someone is going to help you down the road. Now you guys, I guess you could argue, hey, Tyson, it might be maybe if Matthew Stafford gets injured, but now you're talking about a guy with 13 starts. It's very fascinating. It's a very fascinating question. And I'll play, I'll play the other side of it one more time. And again, I don't know if I actually buy this, but I think that there is, it's a good thought exercise to have, right? If I were to take your stance here, or if I were to hear your stance, and I'm less need, I'm going to look around the league and say, would you rather be the team with the quarterback on a rookie deal? And you're just hoping that that guy clears a certain threshold to be a super bowl level quarterback with a great situation around him? Or would you rather be the jaguars and be paying Trevor Lawrence $275 million over the next five years and hoping that he's in MVP? Would you rather be the Packers paying the same amount to Jordan Love and hoping that he's in MVP? As now, all of the depth that you built around the periphery is falling apart because you do have to pay this guy's superstar quarterback level money, which means I need superstar quarterback returns. You look at Cincinnati, you look at Baltimore, right? You look at, even San Francisco, who I think has handled maybe their quarterback situation, all the injuries and loss of depth over the last couple of years, better than most franchises should be expected to. And you still look at them and say, they're probably a piece or two away before we can actually feel like they would be in the driver's seat to go in a title. I like where the Rams are positioned, which is not a place that I thought I would be after day one of the draft, right? I was, I came down very hard on the Tyson Simpson pick. I didn't think he was that impressive of a player at Alabama. I didn't think that he married it that their youth overall pick. I thought that the Rams could have used that draft capital to bring in another player on a rookie deal that can maybe give you surplus value. But now, you know, after we're down the road and I can look back at just the wide array of moves they made at defensive back, bringing in Miles Garrett, what they already have on offense. And I can say, if you're not, if you're telling me what the situation is, that you've got to have somebody to hand this thing over to after Stafford retires. If this is the roster, you're about to hand this over to for a rookie quarterback. You can't ask for more and be it maybe most importantly, the last two years in the NFL have shown us, you do not need to have a $50 million quarterback or somebody who plays like an all pro quarterback, MVP quarterback for you to win a title. If you can just get a guy who meets the threshold in the right situation with the great run game and a great defense around him, we can take this back to the early 2000s and say that those are the only ingredients you really need to feel like you can go and win a Super Bowl. >> That's fair. He will be in position to succeed, whether he's succeed or not, it won't be because he's in a bad place with a bad coach or no wide receivers or a bad defense. That will not be the case. So if he's going to succeed, this would be the place where he succeeds. I continue to look at the opportunity cost, but you know what, I've been wrong a lot of times before and maybe two, three years from now, I'll say, whoops, all right, they knew what they were doing. I had the wrong read on it. Last thing here, Deontay on the Rams is just, you know me with traits. It's a flat out. If you were in the room, would you have done it? Would you have not have, would you have said we have to do it? Would you have said we cannot do it? Would you have said I'm on the fence? What would Deontay Lee's opinion have been in that room with less need when this trade proposal came to the table? We got to go on the record here. I'm saying the proof that Jared verse was a success for us as a pick is the fact that he's good enough to consummate this deal for Miles Garrett. I'm taking this deal a hundred times out of a hundred. This is the point of the sport. I want to have the best players in the world playing on, you know, playing wearing my helmet, wearing my jersey, winning games from my franchise. This is what this game is about. I want Miles Garrett a hundred times out of a hundred. And I'm going to hope that Jared verse is very successful out in Northeast Ohio, but we're trying to win a championship here. I'm with you. I want to say the same thing. It's that you said is the point of the sport is to win the Super Bowl. It doesn't guarantee anything. It could blow up. Jared verse could go on to be a five time all pro. And now you're paying Miles Garrett and maybe Matthew Stafford suffers an injury. You get old. A lot of things can happen, but those things are out of your control right now. You have to put together the best team possible with the older quarterback. You've been so close to last two years. You have a chance to add the best and most disruptive defensive player in the NFL. I'm going for it. I never fault the team when they're actually close for going for it very aggressively. I will fault the teams who think they're close and I say you're not close. You're delusional. Those are the teams I thought the Rams are close. We all know the Rams are close. And so I'm with you. I absolutely would have done this deal as well. All right. Let's take a break. We come back. We get to the brown side of it. And then we move on to the final ending of the AJ Brown saga. We'll get to that trade as well when we come back. All right. We are back here on the ringer. NFL shows us a Cleveland Browns. Okay. They, you know, get Miles Garrett had the trade request a couple years ago. They hold on to him. They're paying him. He's playing great there yet at the same time. This team isn't going anywhere. So I feel like I think you might disagree with me here at Dianne. Here's where I'm at. If you're a fan, it sucks to not have Miles Garrett on your team anymore. If you have kids who are Browns fans, they're like, this is the only guy I've liked. This is, but has to be the most popular jersey. This is the reason to watch the games. Having said that, I would have been a yes in the Browns building as well for this trade. I think it makes sense for them. And I again, it's not, it's not one of those where it feels good. Like if you're a Ramson, this feels great. We got Miles Garrett. You're going crazy on the group chats. We're going to go win the Super Bowl. That's not what it is for the Browns. But if you're just thinking about how can you eventually get to a place where you're a competitive team, Miles Garrett is entering his age 31 season. You have virtually no chance to be an actual contender until let's say 20, 28 at the early. I would say like 29. We're a ways away. Right. So he's 33 or 34 years old at that point. You can have him play the next three years for your team. And that's great. He can just have where one helmet his entire career. He can set all kinds of records in Cleveland. But at the same time, you're trying to build a competitive team. And what moves do you have to actually make for a rebuild to put yourself in position to build a contending team? And for that reason, I thought that the Raider should have traded Max Crosby. I said that last year. I said last year, the Browns should trade Miles Garrett. They don't have a lot of moves to make. This is one of the only moves they have to make to take a big swing. So I actually think this move makes sense for the Cleveland Browns. I understand why they did it. And I would have been a yes vote inside the building if they asked me, should we make this trade? Where are you with the Browns end of it? I feel the exact same way. I think that they did everything the way that they were supposed to. When Miles Garrett says that he wants to be traded last or two a spring ago, you know, last spring before the Super Bowl, you say, hey, Miles Garrett, that's awesome that you want to go somewhere else. How about a boatload of money to be here, right? And you keep your guy for another year. And you can call that a success in the moment. Now it's obvious, hey, we went in, you know, we went all in with bringing in these young quarterbacks to see if we can maybe find, you know, a future on the cheap for the next couple of years, both your door centers in Dylan Gabriel look like bad starters. And even if they do eventually become good starters, it's not going to be any time soon. And maybe we need to be a little bit more serious in our approach of the quarterback position once we can get to Sean Watson off our bucks, which oh, by the way, he still is going to count where a whole lot of deadcap once he is eventually released after the 2026 season. And now it is the right thing for them to come back to the table and do what they did this spring and say, hey, let's restructure your contract to buy ourselves some extra time. We're going to keep this quiet. You'll get all the cash that you need. We'll play the accounting games to keep our numbers good and make sure that you get paid. And then by June 1st, we'll go find you another partner to go play with, right? I think that that's the right move as well. I think if you're Cleveland, you did all that you did all that you could do considering the fact that the quarterback, you spent 230 million guaranteed dollars on turned out to not be viable at all at the starter. I think they hung on to what should have been one of the greatest, if not the greatest brown of all time for as long as they could have. And the runway just went out, right? And it does suck if you're a young Browns fan to have to watch the best player of your lifetime walk out the door. But ultimately, this is just where you are as a franchise. And ultimately, if you can bring back a young cost controlled player and Jared verse plus a first round pick in a couple of top 100 picks in theory, right? As a return for this guy, you're 100 percent happy. And as a young fan, I would recommend that now you go get on Reddit and look at all of the people, you know, who are proposing trades for a dental ward and figure out what you can go get for your corner before he turns 30. I thought you were going to say goodbye to some college football preview magazines. Listen to Ringer Taylor. I mean, that's one hundred percent. Yeah, your Saturday is smart, going to be more important than your Sundays this year. You got to see James Carter archmaning, you know, Dante Moore. That is going to be your life for the next seven months. Yeah. But, you know, the compensation aspect of this, I feel like when a trade happens, everybody feels pressure to either say like, they got a haul or they didn't get enough. And it's like, all right, I felt like we're a pair of brothers pot. Like we got to lay this out here and, you know, add some new wants to it because I was looking at it, Deante. And I was trying to compare it to the Michael Parsons trade. Okay. So Cowboys got two firsts and Kenny Clark for Michael Parsons. Now, I think in this situation, you have to count Jared verse as equivalent to a first round pit. Yeah. If they would have just put Jared verse on the market and said, Hey, you know, we're trading Jared verse. I feel pretty strongly that they would have got at least a first round. Maybe a one and something else. So let's say it's equivalent to a first. So you count your verse as a first. You got a 2027 first, which to your point, great quarterback. That's a big part of this where you're make, well, why now, why now with this timing? Because you're getting an additional 2027 first. And even if it might be most likely late in the first round, it gives you another chip to potentially trade for a quarter back that you like. And that's the next problem you have to solve if you're the Cleveland Brown. So you essentially get two firsts there. And then you get a second. And then you get a third. This is for a player entering his age 31 season versus Michael Parsons, who's in his mid 20s. I actually think they did really well here when you look at when you look at the compensation they got from Miles Garrett versus what the Cowboys got for Michael Parsons. Now, the two teams were in very different spots. The Cowboys, I don't think should have traded Michael Parsons because I think they're a very good team. And they could win a Super Bowl. And these in his prime, why are you doing that? This is a team that doesn't have a chance to win in the next couple of years and a player who's 31 years old. But I thought the compensation was very good from a bat Brown's perspective. What did you think when you looked at it? I did as well. I think if you're looking at the last 13, 14 months of how the Browns have managed to roster, you should probably get more and more excited, right? When you think about trading out of the Travis Hunter slot to be able to go add an additional first round pick in this pass draft and you went out and got Mason Graham. It looks like he can be a long time starter in this league and an above average defensive tackle last year. You'll get Spencer for no to potentially be your left tackle of the future. You bring in a wide receiver, you expect to have juice and Casey conception. And now you're talking about trading Miles Garrett for another pair of first round picks, one of which might net you back the quarterback of the future. You might be able to package those picks up to go get the exact quarterback that you want. I mean, I'm given Andrew Barry. a lot of a lot of flack for being on top of all the analytics and none of the good players because Cleveland just always seems to talk about how they're maximizing all their opportunities to get the right guys in the building and then you look at their roster and they never seem to have the guys they need to go win games with out of the draft. This is I think the best way you can manage what is going to be a deep and serious rebuild as far as your first steps. I think that you feel good if you're Cleveland. If this is what the hall is going to be over the last two off seasons, and if that means that we have to park with Miles Garrett to get there, I think that they're setting themselves up about as well as you can ask a franchise that was in the hole they've been in since signing Sean Watson. Well, you made the key point that they did create this mess. Like they threw the house party. They got caught. They broke the painting on the wall. One hundred percent. They made the mess. There's justice. But now at least they are getting the mobs. Yeah, they're getting the they're getting the brooms. The cars are getting towed. The cars are getting the lawn is getting things. Right. And so they are cleaning it up. Now, now they again, they were the ones who created the mess, but they are after having created the mess, you do have to reach a point where if you're going to keep Andrew Barry, okay, what's your plan for now cleaning this up? And I think they are on their way to doing that. Again, it doesn't guarantee anything. They could get to next year's draft. They could pick the wrong quarterback. The quarterbacks could get taken ahead of them. There could be teams in spots that just say, nope, sorry, we're not training out. We need a quarter back to all those things could happen. But all you can do is try to put yourself in position where you fix your team a little bit. And to your point, now they have 22, 20, 27 first round picks, which could help you land a quarterback. This off season, they added, they've added Jared Vers, they drafted offensive tackle and Spencer Fano. They drafted wide receiver and Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston. So they're investing resources into premium positions. Last year's draft, they didn't use on premium positions, but it looked like they got a lot of good players in Carson Schwestinger and Harold Fanon and Quenchon Junkid. So you've had a couple of seasons here where you're trying to move in the right direction. And you might still stink for a while, but at least it gives you an option there. So yeah, I think we're on the same page with the Browns. Last thing I wanted to ask you about the Browns, Deontay, is you mentioned Jared Vers earlier. What kind of player or like, I think it's wrong to look at it and go, well, Jared Vers could turn into next mile scared. No one's going to turn into the next mile scared, but he is 26 years old. He's five years younger than Garrett. I think he has an all pro ceiling, whether he hits that or not, I think that's within the range of outcomes is that this guy could be an all pro. Andy plays a premium position for you there as well. So I think it was a good player to target for them. Are you lower than consensus on Jared Vers? Are you, I like it, but I don't love him. Where are you on just the player that the Browns got in this trade? I think I'm probably closer to like not love than thinking that he can be an all pro. I think that his style of play almost always lean towards being high impression rate. I think he can always be a good TFL guy because he is very physical. He does have a great first step, right? You get to see the way that he plays with power. All of that's great. I think that ultimately he's going to end up being maybe like a B to B minus version of Will Anderson, right? Which is kind of how I had him pegged when he was leaving Florida state and coming into the draft is that he can play stylistically similar, but he's maybe not going to give you those same peak flashes. But ultimately if you're telling me that you're going to get a potential pro bowl and maybe fringe all pro player in a trade for a veteran on the way out plus draft capital. This is great. I think that Vers is some versus the kind of player that Cleveland can be really happy about because this is the kind of guy that if it were a first round pick instead of Vers that she would be open to go find, right? That in the next draft, we can take one of these first round picks. We got in the Miles Garrett trade and maybe that turns into our next premium ed rusher. I don't think that he can possibly be a bad player with how he plays. With this style of play, with his skill set, even if I do think that a ceiling is a bit lower, I'm happy with what they get back in him on that on that aspect alone. I will say though, this surplus value argument that I do see was bringing in a guy like Vers is really only can is really only active for like the next year, year and a half. When your team's not good anyway. Yeah. Exactly. Like you're not getting surplus value if your team is losing, but your guy's on a rookie deal. Like he's just a nice contract. By the time you're good, he's going to be paid like a top 10. He's going to be in the NFL and he's 100% after his fifth year going to be asking for 30 million per year or whatever the going rate is for a top end, you know, ed rusher. So now you're going to be, you could possibly be in the exact same situation. It doesn't mean the process is bad by Cleveland's uncle evens part. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with Vers either as a player. I would, I would just give some pause to people thinking that automatically this is a win for the Browns and bringing Vers in. I think that this is the right move and time will tell what the rest of their draft process and how they manage the end of the Deshan Watson era into whatever is to come next. Well, ultimately get a better view of who Vers is for the Browns. Maybe two or so years from now, but I don't think you're going to get the kind of instant reaction we can have four miles Garrett in projecting what that's going to mean for the Rams for certain. You're hope if you're the Browns or Browns fan is that it gets to the point where it's a no-brainer to pay Jared first. And you're just like, this is a building block player in the prime of his career. Yes, let's please pay him as a top five ed rusher. It's a no-brainer. He's out. It's one of those absolutely worth it where no one bats an eye and is even questioning it. If it doesn't get to that point, now it's like, you know, now it gets to kind of a bad spot, obviously. It's hairy with this trade. I want to do a quick lightning round before I move on to AJ Brown. I'm going to say the team Deontay. I want you to say yes or no, they should have done a similar deal or they should have called the Browns with a similar deal for miles. Okay. Now, after we do the lightning round, if you have, hey, I have to get this off my chest about this specific team, then let's do that. But let's go through the teams real quick. Just give me a yes or no. The Philadelphia Eagles. Should have. Yes. Yes. Okay. The Baltimore Ravens. Yes. Now, the Browns, probably aren't going to trade into the Ravens, but still. Okay. The Chicago Bears. Yes. The Detroit Lions. No. Oh. Okay. The Kansas City Chiefs. Yes. Okay. The Buffalo Bills. Yes. Man, I could just see that one. I'm a girls fan. I'm like, why didn't we? Why weren't we in on this? 100 percent. The Denver Broncos. Oh, man. He's so awesome that you caught it. Your first did think this is a yes. I'm saying no. Yeah. Okay. Okay. You know, if I'm, if I'm George B, if I'm George B, I'm saying no. I'm saying no. I'm taking myself out of it. I'm going to say no. We already have a good pass, right? Okay. The Los Angeles Chargers. Yes. And the last one I had the San Francisco 49ers. Yes. Is Kyle Shanahan looking at John Lynch like, dude, why are they always doing this? Where are we on this? All right. Was there a team in their deante that you said, no, I actually feel very strongly that on the group chats of this fan base, they should be like, how did we not do that? Like, it's the team where you say, they absolutely, and maybe they were in on it. Maybe the Browns took like the Rams deal. Maybe the Browns like Jared verse. A lot of the reporting coming out is that the Rams were just very persistent. And every time the Browns said, no, they at least called back and went like, well, how about this? And I think Jake laser reported, they didn't want to give up Jared verse. They actually wanted to make it all draft capital. And the Browns were like, no, we need like a, you know, we need a study young player who we feel good about. And they got to Jared verse. But is there a team in there as we close out the Miles Garrett discussion where you say, I feel like they really should have tried to do this. I will say I have two in mind, both they're in the AFC. The first one is the bills. Now, obviously, I think the bills kind of have some cap considerations that make it really difficult. They've kind of maxed out the pay on their roster. And they would have to go through a lot of different trade cut, you know, roster move machinations to even try to fit a Miles Garrett in. But that is why I think if you're a bills fan, you're losing your mind. You're like, you're telling me that we have a white knuckle and trying to get through in the AFC for this long. We have maxed out all these resources. And then when a guy like Miles Garrett is available, we really can't even get in on the conversation because we don't have the cash and maybe not the assets to be able to consummate this deal. So that's the first thing I think of. The second one is the chargers. If you know the reason that like, what the charge is number one, Deonte. Why do I make this deal? I don't understand what is happening in Los Angeles. Before this offseason, I walked in thinking, okay, they were very smart last offseason. You're bringing in this new regime. You don't want to spend or be frivolous or you're not in on DK Metcalf or all these other receivers or potential offensive weapons that you could have added to your lineup to help out Justin Herbert. We're now in year two of the chargers being more proud of their comp picks than the players that they have signed. This is really starting to get on our by skin, right? And I think that I think that Herbert deserves to have a little bit more relief. And they just let Joe, they've let Joey Bocelli, right? They are eventually right there trying to replace Khalil Mac. There's an opportunity right in front of you to go out and get a game changing talent that might legitimately change where they stand in the AFC hierarchy. Why are you waiting for Patrick Mahomes to get healthy and reclaim his spot as the first just second best team in this division, let alone the conference? I don't get what the charges approach is. And if Miles Garrett is available, there's no first round pick. There is no cap space that is more valuable than having a player like this who can help my star quarterback get over the hump. And I listen, there might maybe they did call. Maybe they were aggressive. It's possible. And the Brown said you don't have a player that we like enough to that you're going to trade us. But that was the team as I was going through the sector. So I'm like, man, that really would have made a lot of sense to me. To your point, you're trying to go through Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Drake May in the ASE just to get to the Super Bowl. And like Miles Garrett is the player who can help you do that. You have the coach, you have the quarterback, like you have the offensive coordinator. You think right now, man, I would have been very, very tempted to say, hey, don't make a deal before you call me back, Andrew Berry, because I might be willing to do something crazy here if I'm the charger. So yeah, going through those, man, you can really make a case for a lot of them. The bills said, like you said, have invested so many, they believe in building the past rush. They just can't do it. They've tried. And they just, they get, okay, players, good players, but not great players. The Bears to me were pretty interesting where I'm like, that would have been pretty exciting. Miles Garrett on the Chicago Bears would have been a lot of fun. And then the Lions, if you're just saying, like, hey, we're not out of it, Hutchinson, Garrett on the other side, man, that would have been all these teams for like the four years. Yeah. I said the only reason why I hesitated on the Bears and definitely said no for the Lions is that I think if you're those two teams, you're crossing your fingers at Max Crosby is healthy for the first half of the season and maybe you can go get that on it. Maybe you can go get a player like that on a discount instead of giving the equivalent of three first round picks to go out and get a Garrett. If you do that, then passing on and getting in on the negotiations for this trade makes a lot more sense. Without it, I think it is probably is a lot harder to, uh, to, to spell out the logic for your fans who want to stay in contention. All right. Let's revisit that one week eight week nine, see if they do something, see if they should have done something there. All right. Let's take one more break. We come back and it's time to talk AJ Brown to the Patriots. All right. We are back here on the Ringer NFL show Eagles trade AJ Brown to the Patriots for a 20 28 first round pick and a 2027 fifth round pick. Let's start with the Eagle side of this Deontay because they are among the Super Bowl contenders in the NFC. We felt pretty strongly that this got to a point where AJ Brown's like, it's ain't happening. I'm not going back to play for your football team. You're trying to make the best of what is a bad situation with AJ Brown. You weren't sure about the compensation. Now you see the compensation. How should Eagles fans feel about what they got in return here for AJ Brown? I think dissatisfied dissatisfied in the return, but happy that it is resolved. At least that's how I, the second part is for sure. Yeah. I think that that's how I feel as a still quasi Eagles fan, right? Like I think that this is always this needed to happen. There was no way that this relationship could continue forward. There really wasn't any competition in the trade market. So in knowing that and knowing the Philadelphia doesn't have enough levers to drum up interests to be able to go get a 2027 first round pick like they might have wanted or to get a first round pick. Plus another day to pick like they might have wanted in return for an AJ Brown. I think that you can walk away from this feeling like this is like the definition of compromise. You got them off. You got a first round pick back and return for them. It's time to move forward. You're not going to have the same kind of financial hampering that it would have been if they would have tried to make this move prior to June 1st. And I think everybody just kind of got to walk away from this feeling good on the other side of it though. I think that this is a major, major boom for New England. Okay. Yeah. I think that's one of the things that I think I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I'm going to do. I think that's what I think that's what I think that's what I'm going to do. You know, I don't know where this had been. It's a two year thing. It had been festering. It had been lingering. They tried to make it work last year. It didn't work. And it's still a very weird situation. It's hard to talk about it without really getting gossipy, but it's just like, we still don't know. It's like, what happened here? Jalen Hertz was the godfather to AJ Brown's daughter. They got the two Super Bulls together. They won one. It wasn't going great offensively, but it gets to the point where AJ Brown is like so unhappy that he's like, I am demanding a trade from a team that has made the playoffs every year. I've been here and I've had 5,000 receiving yards over the last four years. So whether it was just Jalen Hertz's performance, whether it was something else, we still don't know all the details, but it was weird that it got to that point, but it did get to that point. So once it gets to that point, you have to figure out, how can I maximize value? And I think you're probably right to be dissatisfied with the return here because when that Jalen Waddle trade happened earlier this off season and the Broncos send a first and a third to the dolphins for Jalen Waddle. And Waddle is only one year younger than AJ Brown and Brown has been a superior receiver even last year, but certainly for the last three, four, five years, I felt like that kind of said it, okay, that's kind of what you should be able to get for AJ Brown. But I think it tells us, it tells us one of two things, Dion, because I think we can agree how he rose, but it's good at his job and specifically this aspect of his job maximizing value for players he wants to move. So it either tells us one that the league did not think as highly of Brown as maybe we did, you know, analysts, the public, whatever, maybe they're like, no, there's more of a chance of him being a declining player at this stage of his career than we think. That's one or two, I was thinking about this. Do the Eagles value future picks maybe more so than other organizations? Because if you're a typical NFL GM, you're like, I'm not getting a 20 to a 20, 28 first, but I might not have my job in 2028. I mean, something now, but the Eagles are, you know, some of the stable organizations, they're GM's. No, we're going to be around the leadership, the decision makers aren't changing. And hey, all right, we would love a 2027 first, but if it's a 2027 second versus a 2028 first, we want that first, because there's upside. Who knows what happens to the Patriots? Maybe in 2027, they suffer a bad injury lock or they lose a bunch of one score games or something weird happens. And now all of a sudden, it's not like the NBA, where it's protected. Oh, you know, top five protected, nope, whatever that pick is in 2028, it's your pick. So which of those do you think is more likely that the league kind of viewed Brown, maybe not as highly as we thought they might when you look at the compensation for other wide receivers or that maybe the Eagles said, you know what, we're fine with pushing the South because we're kind of different than other organizations. Maybe this is the Homer and me, but I think it's the latter. I genuinely think it's the latter. I think if there weren't the financial ramifications on the line, for Philadelphia, if they had made this trade prior to June 1st, there would have been a more robust market. You cannot convince me that the bills would have rather parted with the second round pick to go get DJ Moore than have given away a first round pick to go meet DJ Brown. You can't convince me at that, but that was one of my first thoughts. There's no way you can convince me calling how he rose been. I mean, oh my gosh, I'm like, that was one of my first things when I'm like, wait, the bills could have gotten AJ Brown for this versus DJ Moore for what they gave up. That was the one team where man, I thought that was crazy. You can't convince me that the Broncos wouldn't have been willing to put that exact same trade package on the line to go get AJ Brown to go be their new number one receiver instead of Jalen Waddle. I think that that would have been a better fit for the way they want to play offense, which is more catch and run than bringing in Waddle. And I think the Waddle is a good player. I just think I'd rather have Brown. And if that was a trade package that was available for Waddle, again, if he was available prior to June 1st, if Brown was available prior to June 1st, why would he not have gone for that? Right? I think that 100% the Eagles were hampered more so than the league telling them they weren't willing to part with that draft capital. The timeline makes it more difficult for them to manufacture the leverage and negotiations they needed. I think to maximize his value. Why is it matter for a team like the Broncos if you have to wait to June 1st? To me, I think it matters. It matters less for the Broncos than maybe it does for the Eagles. I think the Eagles would say, I will take that, I will take that kind of draft compensation in 2027. Right? I will take that for 2027 to bring you in if you're willing to wait. And I think that most of the teams in the league would say we're not hanging up our wide receiver room. We're not hanging up our cap space after we bring in AJ Brown and waiting an extra couple of months instead of going for it without our alternate plans are. That's my read of it. Right? Especially knowing that Philadelphia seemed to kind of been engaging with New England on some sort of unofficial to official basis, basically from like the week of the Super Bowl it seems like. Right? If you're just listening to what the tea leaves were around that time from then to now, I just think that I think that the Eagles got boxed in negotiation wise by the timeline and who they were already working with. And knowing that AJ Brown had a select list of places. that he would have been interested in playing for, right? I think that that's one part of it, and I think the other thing which is more true is that if you are how he roseman, even if you're taking away the possibility that New England regresses, which I'm not so sold on right now. You, if you're just thinking about it as Philadelphia, we have to pay Quinyon Mitchell, we have to pay Cooper Dijon, we have to pay Jalen Carter, we just paid Jordan Davis. His contract is gonna really be kicking in around 2028. We've got all these young defensive players that we believe are going to be our future that are going to count for X percentage of the cap. We're going to have to turn over the offensive side of the ball, especially our offensive line. Even if we're not bad and the Patriots aren't bad, I want to have multiple opportunities to be able to go get Elaine Johnson replacement. If we need a Jordan Milado replacement at some point, if we need to replace Cam Jergens or Landon Dickerson in our interior line, I want to have as many first round picks to be able to go do so as possible. Hell, we might have a chance to go get another high ceiling wide receiver who might slip past pick 15, if we're not in the top 15 and if New England's, not in the top 15. And how we rose when I think is, how we rose when I think is maybe not individually, but particularly equipped to say, I can take the long view because my owner, the owner of my franchise, trust me, right? You trust that we can do that? - Job security, yeah. - 100%. It's the same with less need and why he's been able to get by being the GM for this long. It basically only ever making like three first round picks in his tenure, right? Since the Jared Goff pick, it's the same reason, right? I think that that long view informs why they would be more comfortable taking a 2028 first round pick and why your standard GM might have just said, hey, give me the 2027 too so I can say we have a more immediate return on what's departing from our team and we can call this a win if you give us enough draft compensation around that second round pick for us to kind of twist ourselves and not to say, it's actually the equivalent of a first round or a first round plus. - Yeah, I think we can say pretty definitively that a 2027 first was not on the table from 'cause given how everyone's talking about that draft, no one wants to give up those picks and certainly teams would want those picks if you're the Eagles versus 2028. I mean, you didn't mention Jalen Hertz there, but they're, you know, there's a possibility if this doesn't go well with Sean Manion over the next two years. And now you get to 2028 and now you have two first round picks. Quarterback, whether you're using it in the draft or trading for a veteran, that's also just about optionality there for the Eagles. All right, Patriots side of this Deontay. To me, it's a question of how many more prime years there's AJ Brown half? Because if you look at the numbers, I mean, you should be over the moon if you're a Patriots fan, you know? Seventh and receiving yards over the last three seasons. Fifth and yards per out run over the last three seasons. Even last year where it's like AJ Brown was not a great player last year. He had 78 catches for 1,000 three yards in 15 games. That was a bad season. He ranked 13th in yards per out run. Like it's really hard to look at anymore. Like the lowest you can kind of get on AJ Brown is like, oh, he's the 15th best wide receiver in the NFL. And that's if you're like, which I still think I would reject. I would reject that. Yeah, I would too. So how excited should Patriots fans be here? How cautiously optimistic should they be here? He is 29 years old. Are there injury concerns? Where do you come down on this from the Patriots perspective? Specifically to answer your question about how many prime years he has left. I think that I think I would bank on two, right? I would bank on him up to, you know, his age 30 season. Yeah. Which I still think is a win. If I'm giving away a first round, one first round pick to get two prime years at a premium position, I think that that's overall worth it. If I'm talking about a veteran, right? It will be a different consideration. If it's a younger guy, right? I feel even more over the moon. I feel like I 100% got a steal on this trade. If Brown is 25 instead of 28, turn to 29, right? But I think he's got a couple more prime years. And I think that because you're not inheriting all the major, major costs on this deal. He's going to be playing at a reasonable amount for New England. He also bumps everybody down a peg in the pecking order. And if you're telling me as Drake May, who finished, you know, a hair away from winning an MVP in my second year. And I was competing for a Super Bowl in my second year. That now I've got AJ Brown, Romeo Dobbs, Keishan Booty, and Hunter Henry as my top four guys target share wise. And now all I have to do is hope that my offensive line is the 15th best in the league. I mean, hell, that's exactly what just want to championship for Seattle offensively, right? Obviously, that's the best defense in the league. But if that was a bar that you needed to clear for the last couple of years between Philly and Seattle on the offensive side to feel like you could contend, I feel like I'm a better quarterback than both of the guys that just won championships most recently if I'm Drake May. I'm over the moon ecstatic to have a number one receiver that can go beat man that can create after the catch. That can be a third down and red zone target the way that AJ Brown is because he has not had that in his first two years in the NFL. - Yeah, I'm with you when you look at what they did last year with leading pass catchers to Fond Diggs, Hunter Henry, Keishan Booty, Matt Collins. I mean, this was the group and like you said, they were top three passing offense by any metric. I only stunk in the playoffs and I don't want to just sweep that under the rug. But yeah, they were terrible in the playoffs. But if we look at, if you say, "Hey, Drake May was playing with an entry." That's why they were terrible. Or maybe some of those words were exposed that, "Hey, the offensive line really isn't great." "Hey, this passing catching group really isn't great." Now you can look at it and say for a whole regular season, they were top three with that group. And now it's AJ Brown, Romeo Dobs, either Matt Collins, Keishan Booty, Kyle Williams, pop Douglas, whoever, Hunter Henry, you added Caleb Lomu in the draft to upgrade the offensive line. Like that's a nice offseason. AJ Brown, Romeo Dobs and Caleb Lomu for your quarterback on a rookie contract there. So I think there's reason to be excited if you're a Patriots fan. I think you have to look at it and say, we are getting a motivated player who has a great relationship with our coach who wants to play in an offense where all areas of their field are available to him and the ball's gonna get to him when it's supposed to get to him. And you know what, he's gonna be really happy here. There's a chance he's a top five wide receiver in the NFL. The next two years, if he stays healthy. So you didn't give up the 2027 pick again. No one wants to give up the 2027 pick. So you push to the year down the road here. So there is some downside. Like I said, if you have a bad like if that ends up being, you know, like a top five top eight pick all of a sudden if the next two year, like a lot can happen between now and the 2028 draft for sure. But at the same time, I like being aggressive and trying to help out your young quarterback here by adding a player of A.J. Brown's caliber. So yeah, I think we're both on the, well, we're both a yes in the room with whoever's Elliott Wolf, whoever's making the calls there. Yeah, right. Honestly, if I'm Howard Roseman or I'm Elliott Wolf, I think I'm saying yes to this deal. I think that you should walk away feeling satisfied on both ends. Well, from the agent perspective, you're just like, well, if you, we didn't have a chain of, if you're at the point where we don't have another option that you want to make this deal. Yeah, this is the best thing we can do, yeah. Patriot should feel better about it, I think, than, than the Eagles when you look at it. 'Cause they're adding the player and they're a super bowl contender where the Eagles are adding the idea of a player in 2028, which again, is a long way away. Okay, it could look great. For a team that wasn't going to title, you don't want to have to tell yourself. They're only now moving. Maybe this is going to work out in 2028, right? You just have to remove A.J. Brown from your offense here. So what a June 1st, Deonte. My head's spinning, you know, I'm not, I'm not supposed to be at my computer. There's been this many hours on June 1st, miles get traded from the Cleveland Browns to the Los Angeles Rams. A.J. Brown traded from the Philadelphia Eagles to the New England Patriots. I can just see next year Roger Godel saying, let's have a TV special, June 1st, you know, let's capture these trades. We don't, we have, someone will raise their hand. Hey, Raj, we haven't taken over June yet. You know, you're right. Good, good point there, man in suit. Yeah, let's take over June as well. How can we do it? Well, remember what happened last year? Why don't we do that against? Great. Call the networks. Who wants it? Hi, it's bitter. So maybe that's what we're in store for next year. But it was exciting. It was a, you know, it's a slow part of the offseason to get a nice little jolt here of like massive news, massive, massive news. This big, this laid into the offseason was a lot of fun. All right, Deonte, you're writing about this for the ringer, you said? That's right. I'll probably have a piece up on Monday night if not Tuesday morning. There you go. Check out Deonte Lee's work at theringer.com. Thank you to everybody for listening. Thank you to Steve Holman coming up in a big spot, producing for us. Stefano Sanchez on video and additional production to provision by Conor Nevens and Arjuna. Ram Gopal, I'm Sheila Kapalia. We will talk to you next time on The Ringer NFL Show. [Music]