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Speaker 4Hello and welcome to the How Not to Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So, pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat, and enjoy the conversation. This is episode 59, and today I want to talk about toxic friendships. How to spot them, and how best to support your child, if they find themselves in one. Now, I've personally seen a huge increase in these. Now, whether you use terms like gaslighting, or bullying, or whatever sort of terminology you might be particularly familiar with, when I'm talking about toxic friendships, I'm talking about friendships that have a sustained and prolonged chipping away at your child's confidence and self-esteem. So, these are friendships which aren't, aren't healthy. Now, if you will remember in, can't remember which podcast episode it is, but we've talked about friendships, and helping support our children with friendships. But previously, I've talked about this notion around red and green friends. So, red friends are like sweets, chocolate, cake. All the things we know aren't always good for us, but we enjoy, they're our guilty pleasures. And in essence, when we have too much of these chocolates, sweets, cakes, whatever our guilty pleasure is, we don't feel great afterwards. And that's pretty much how I would describe a red friend. A red friend basically leaves you sort of feeling quite rubbish about yourself after you've had that time. The reason why I love this sort of notion about red and green friends is it's a really sort of less accusatory way and a gentler way of having conversations with children about who they spend their time with, rather than simply saying, you should not spend time with that person because they're not good for you, or they're not kind to you, they're awful. When we talk about red and green friends, it helps our children and our teens to be able to understand the difference between friendships that we spend time with that make us feel great and friendships that don't. So, a red friend leaves you feeling awful about yourself. It just gives you that sort of icky feeling. A green friend, on the other hand, is a little bit like our sort of five to seven fruit and vegetables each day. Yeah, the recommended dosage of all the good stuff. So, when you eat healthily and you take part in all of these good nutrients, you feel great and it's like a friendship. When you spend time with green friends, you feel great when you spend time with them. You feel energised, vibrant, happy, loved, liked and valued. So, when we're talking about toxic friendships, these are the friendships that sit very much within the red zone and there are some very specific behaviours about toxic friendships. I'm not going to talk about those, but it's, you know, just as a baseline, it's reminding you. And when we start looking at the strategies for how we actually talk to our children about it, it's about giving us the framework to begin to have those conversations. So, we're talking about red friends, the friends that make our children feel awful. Now, our children can find themselves in toxic friendships at any point, whether they're younger or whether they're older. So, this rings true, whether you're listening to the episode and you've got a seven-year-old, or whether you're listening to this and you've got a 16-year-old. So, what are the warning signs? Now, these are some of the warning signs, but I suspect as a parent, you've probably got a bit of a gut instinct already. So, one of them is that they tend to use manipulative sort of words and language in order to get your child to comply. And what we're talking about with toxic friendships is that this is sustained and prolonged. This isn't a one-off. If you've got a friend, if your child has a friend who maybe is a bit manipulative one day, but that isn't their standard pattern, then that doesn't make them a toxic friendship. It probably doesn't necessarily make them the best of friends and the most ideal person for your child to spend time with, but it doesn't make it toxic. It's not something that we need to be super, super concerned about. So, it will be manipulative things such as, I won't be your friend anymore if. And I've heard this sort of, you know, if you're going to play with us because I won't be your friend. Or if we're going to have a sleepover, you can't bring that friend. Or you can't, if you play football, then I will no longer be your friend. So, it's another child who tends to use a lot of that kind of manipulative language in that. So, that's one of the warning signs. Another one is that they might just sort of treat your child in a way that makes their, your child, makes them feel that they're less than, not even necessarily the other child, but others. So, they will, they can be quite insulting. They can be quite unkind in a lot of their language. So, we've got this manipulative behaviour. We've got this sort of language that is used that makes your child constantly feel less than, not as good as. And what they could often do is that there may be, and this can sometimes be underhand. And sometimes it can be, it can be, you know, overt, as in really obvious, and sometimes it can be very subtle, but they will exclude your child or try and deliberately make them feel bad or make them feel jealous. For example, your child might be in a group of, a larger group. Maybe there's about six or seven of them that hang around. Maybe there's three or four. And suddenly there'll be things that will be done that will be deliberately excluding. Maybe a play date is arranged and your child isn't included or a game that happens and they're excluded from that. So, it's this sort of manipulative language that is used, you know, I won't be your friend. It's saying things that sort of make your child feel less than worthy and sort of behaviour that deliberately excludes them. Those are some other signs and there's lots of conversations that tend to happen that are not really, there doesn't tend to be a lot of listening to your child. So, the other friend may well do, will likely do a lot of talking about this. They'll talk about themselves, but won't necessarily listen to what your child is talking about or even ask questions and be interested about. What did you do at the weekend? It's very much one sided. And again, I want you to be mindful when we, when you look at some of these, this isn't a definitive list. And there are some aspects of this list that are also going to be part of just a friendship that isn't necessarily the best of friendships, but isn't necessarily a toxic friendship because when we're talking about toxic, we're talking about that sort of extreme end where we really want our child or our teenager to remove themselves because this is not healthy for your child. It starts impacting their self-esteem. It starts impacting how they view themselves, their confidence, their ability to make other friendships. That's where we need to be concerned, where we've got our child has got lots of friends, but they just have one particular friend who's like this, but they're spending their time across multiple people. then that it's less likely to impact their own personal personal confidence where with the toxic friendships it's about stepping in and helping our children remove themselves more quickly because it almost becomes this insular two or three people and our children don't feel that they're worthy enough even to have other friends so they can't they find themselves not being able to pull away from that friendship and that's where the damage is done when our children have got lots of broad number of friends and when i'm talking about lots i'm saying they're friends with like 20 people but they've got a good healthy amount of whether it's three because they're they have this one really close relationship but they also have another friend and another friend that's great so it's not talking huge numbers it's that it's i guess it's really it's the diversity if your child doesn't have diversity in their friendships and you're listening to these points and this is about one child and that's the one child that your child spends 99 of their time with you're listening to these points and this is about one child and that's the one child that your child then that's a toxic friendship if this is one child out of many children that your child spends time with then clearly it's still not a healthy relationship it's not a healthy friendship but it isn't one that we've got to you know sound all alarms and get things moving immediately because it's probably not impacting your child's confidence and self-belief and self-esteem to the level that it would do for a child where it's just this insular thing because obviously they've got they do get that top up and that healthy feeling from those green friends so let's just talk about a couple of other things just to look out for as part of being able to recognize the warning signs one of the other ones is that the the toxic friends often put a lot of pressure on children to do things that they don't necessarily want to do they're not observant of your child's boundaries of what we've talked about this before in terms of consent but also about common sense of what's going on with your child and what's going on with your child's confidence of being able to say when you do that that makes me feel when you ask me to do that i don't like it i don't want to do it so it might be pressure to say unkind things about other people exclude other people be mean to other children or it might be as we're looking at older children it then might be around drinking smoking or it might be wearing certain things you know it's almost if you've seen the film mean girls then that's pretty much and obviously toxic friendships are not exclusive to girls but it's that behavior it's that pattern of behavior of in order to remain within this group within this friendship you need to abide by these rules and these may sit uncomfortably with you but that's you know that's the price you pay for being in this friendship so that's one of the things and what then usually happens is is what will happen within a toxic friendship is you will then find that that toxic friend begins to try and cut your child off from other friends and other friendships so again either turning them against them or beginning to say well you can't be my friend unless you don't spend time with this other person so these are kind of hopefully the warning signs i suspect a lot of you who are listening to this will be able to already identify whether your child is in a toxic friendship as in i'm really concerned because this is who my child spends all the time with and i have tried to get them to see this or you might be listening to this thinking that's interesting maybe that's not the case but i'm really concerned because this is who my child maybe they are or it might be that they're part of a larger group and there's one friend so wherever your child is at the advice that i'm going to give will help you regardless of where your child might be at in terms of that relationship with that child now those are the warning signs and maybe you've you're already sure your child is in a toxic relationship so what do you do what i will say before we get started is we must remember the child who is being toxic is ultimately a vulnerable individual we must be mindful not to villainize them now of course their behavior is unacceptable and could be causing all manner of issues and trauma for your child but we should still model compassion and kindness well at least i feel that we do yeah it's the whole saying we don't really know what's happening or going on in another person's life and we should still model compassion and kindness and we should still model compassion and it's really important that if we kind of one way to frame it the way that i try to kind of remember it when this has ever happened with my own children is to use this guide to remember that we're focusing on the behavior of the other child or the other teen and not their character what they do in a given situation is unacceptable rather than them as an individual being unacceptable and i've and again i'm saying for those of you who've been listening for a while i'm saying this with love i have seen often in situations where children have been in toxic relationships or have been bullied is of course as parents we want to save our children and we don't want to see them in pain or hurt and it breaks our heart that this other child is being and behaving the way they are but we must be mindful because i've seen this so often is that what we do is we attack the character of the other child they're a horrible person you must stay away from them they're mean and they're uncomfortable and we must be mindful of that and we must be kind and they're vicious or they're a bully or we have to remember that that's about their character going back even to podcast episodes one of the early podcast episodes that i've done and in fact actually the most popular about how we met how we help children manage emotions is we're remembering we have to look at the emotion behind the behavior the child who is being toxic will have their reasons for being toxic i genuinely believe that children aren't born and aren't raised to be malicious and mean and unkind there is something going on in that child's life that means that that is how they feel friendships are or that there are some specific issues so let's not do a character assassination because it doesn't teach our children the right values about being compassionate to others and understanding that there'll be reasons behind that now that doesn't mean that our children just simply roll over and think it's acceptable when someone else is trying to be controlling or manipulative or unkind absolutely not but surely we want to raise compassionate and kind children to become compassionate and kind adults and i could rant and rave but i will not but i do believe that a lot of societally at the moment things are incredibly divisive and when we start finger pointing and naming people and and being looking at people from this character you are a bad person i am a good person i'm victim you are villain i don't think that's helpful if we go back to this notion about fixed and growth mindset that individual who's being toxic doesn't need to stay that way from a fixed mindset their personality their character is not fixed it's from a growth mindset they can change they need support so what we must remember is when we're helping and supporting our children is that we focus on the behavior that this other child is doing and not their character so our language is around that all right lecture over so what do we actually do and i'm going to go through some things in my usual way i've got five strategies um but what i want you to think about is there's kind of two bits to this the first bit is actually how do we help our child to see first of all that they're in a toxic friendship because sometimes our child doesn't necessarily see that so that's the kind of the first bit that we've got to do and then the next step is how do we then help our children navigate themselves out of that and that's the first bit and then the next step is how do we then help our child navigate themselves out of that and that's the first bit and then the next step is how do we then help our child navigate themselves out of that and that's the first bit and then the next
Speaker 2step is how do we then help our child navigate themselves out of that and that's the first bit therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough it shows up in the smallest moments you bite your tongue instead of escalating you put your phone down instead of firing off that text you say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most nobody applauds those moments but they quietly change your life that's what growing feels like and that's exactly what grow therapy is here for grow is therapy that works covered by insurance sessions average 21 with insurance and some pay as little as zero dollars depending on their plan there are no subscriptions no long-term commitments you just pay per session grow connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the u.s offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends you can search by what matters like insurance specialty identity or availability and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days not the national 48 day average see if you could pay as little as zero dollars for therapy in seconds at grow therapy.com slash a cast that's grow therapy.com slash a cast grow therapy.com slash a cast availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan
Speaker 1blood donation is now more inclusive more lgbtq plus individuals are able to donate blood with the american red cross due to fda guidelines that will eliminate eligibility questions based on sexual orientation the red cross celebrates this historic change and welcomes those who may be newly eligible to donate blood there's a place for everyone in the mission of the red cross including you the red cross is committed to achieving a blood donation process that treats all potential donors with equality and respect while maintaining the safety of the blood supply join us and help save lives to learn more and make your appointment to donate blood visit red cross blood.org lgbtq That's redcrossblood.org slash LGBT. BTQ. So let's kind of
Speaker 4look at all of this. So the first one, first strategy, and these are in some ways in a little bit, these are very much in an order rather than necessarily. You can use them at any point, but I think that the first thing we've got to do is actually just listen to the stories that our children tell us about what's happening. You know, listen to the narrative, listen to the playground drama or the classroom drama, whatever it is that our child needs to come home and decompress about and let us know about that friendship. We need to really listen and I'm going to urge you to listen in that whole, you might have heard about active listening, but it's this notion of listening without having the next question or the next point in your mind. Listen so that you're able to paraphrase back to your child. So what I'm hearing is, am I right in thinking that what you're saying is? We really need to listen without distraction, listen without feeling that we need to come up with a solution and give our child an answer. We're really trying to understand, particularly because we want to make sure we've taken away any prejudices or biases that we might have. Maybe we've already made a decision about a friend that our child has been spending time with and we've decided that they're toxic or they're not somebody we really want our child to hang out with. Maybe they're quite boisterous, maybe they're quite aggressive as a child, maybe their play is quite aggressive, maybe that child spends a lot of time playing computer games or computer games above their age. Maybe that child dresses in a particular way and goes out and drinks and smokes and we don't really want our child hanging out with them. So make sure that we're really listening. We are trying to understand here and trying to support our children. I think the worst thing we can do is go into super protective parent and alienate our children by going into full lecture mode of, that is not a good friend, they do this, they do that. I've heard the parents are like this or whatever it is and I know that we don't do that because we're vicious and horrible people. We're doing it because we want to protect our children but we must, must keep them on side, let them know that we're there, we're available, we want to understand and we can only do that by listening to the stories that they tell us, the challenges that they're having and really listening with that perspective of being able to say, am I right in thinking that what you're saying is. So the first thing we need to do is listen. The next thing we need to do is ask questions and we can only ask probing questions, we can only ask relevant questions if we have really listened and what we're trying to do with these questions is we're asking these questions to kind of hope, to help ourselves probe and really clarify whether this is a toxic friendship that is systematic, that is sustained, that is prolonged, that is very specific to our child or maybe even another child rather than it's simply being a falling out or just children being children, having good days, having bad days and just generally being kids or teens. So we want to listen so that we can understand so that when we then ask the questions they're true questions rather than statements, rather than rhetorical questions. So am I right in thinking that they're really not a nice person? That's not asking a question and that is a character point rather than about their behaviour. So we really want to clarify some of these because we want to really make sure that we understand exactly what's happening with that situation and we want to ask questions about how often does this happen? Is this something that's quite regular? How does it make our child feel? What do they usually say? Who are the other people involved? How do other people respond to that if they're part of a group? So listen and then ask questions so that we can really probe. So the next step is we've listened, we've asked questions, now what we want to do is help our children to see that the patterns of behaviour that they're talking about with this particular individual, that those sort of behaviours are not healthy, are not part of a healthy relationship. So again it's not about lecturing, it's not about just bombarding our children but we might then gently begin to sort of probe the things that they're saying. So we might go back to this notion of how red and green friends make us feel. So we might go back to this notion of what a red friend is and how that makes us feel, what a green friend is and how that makes us feel. Maybe even ask your child to tell me some, you know, who do you think are green friends? Who do you think are red friends? And maybe with the green friends ask them why do you think that they're green friends? How do they make you feel after you spent time with them? Who's a red friend? Why are they a red friend? How do they make you feel? So it's helping them see those patterns and then the other thing and it's a reminder to one of an earlier podcast episode but I will sort of recap and remind you here is I've talked before about this notion of the of friendships being like a tower of Jenga. So if you imagine the game Jenga they're made up of tiles that are then arranged in a tower in threes and you have three blocks going one way and three blocks going at right angles and you build up this tower. If you were to write a quality of a good friendship on each of those tiles so you have multiple qualities on those tiles then that tower represents a good friendship. You don't need every single quality to have a good friendship but if we began removing tile by tile as if we were playing Jenga but instead of actually adding them to the top we didn't we just simply removed the tiles at some point that tower would fall. So that's no longer a good friendship. So what we're trying to help our children to understand is you don't need every single quality in order to have a good friendship but if you remove enough away that is no longer a friendship because we're trying to help our children see because quite often children will call everybody a friend and that's wonderful and that's because they're being kind and they smile at them and they say please and thank you and they include them in things but a really good friend a green friend has sufficient number of qualities within that to maintain that tower to keep it standing. A red friend doesn't have that and those crumble and so we can talk about what are the qualities of that friend. Tell me some of the good qualities about what makes that person your friend and what are the qualities that don't make them a friend. So they're beginning to see the good the qualities that they possess and the qualities that they don't possess and for those I've mentioned it before are the whole Jenga tower thing. Something I do quite often when I'm working with families and children where there's friendship issues directly but I've done the Jenga blocks for qualities of a happy family of a happy class I've done it within schools and we've then I've then condensed that down to the qualities of good friendship as part of our my card decks which you can access from the website if you want to do that so that gives you all the qualities like 50 odd qualities of a good friendship so you can you can use a card deck instead but what we're trying to get our child to see is to recognize what are the good qualities of a friendship what are those essential qualities and how many might be missing so we're not lecturing to our child we're not saying that's not a good friendship you need to get out of it but helping them to become enlightened and to be able to see that that's not a healthy relationship so it doesn't mean that they've got to cut them off and we'll talk about that but it's about helping them begin to distance themselves so it's really children are much more likely to do things that they have come to the realization of themselves so that's what we're trying to do and that's sort of you know helping our children to see that the patterns of behavior with this particular friendship are not healthy and then let that permeate let that sit there and sort of brew for a little bit and our children will then begin to act on it so the first three are we need to listen but really actually listen actively listen so that we can paraphrase back what our understanding is we need to ask questions which help us really probe and clarify is this a toxic relationship or not rather than just friends falling out it's helping our children see patterns of behavior that are not healthy so we're helping them understand this notion of red and green friends and qualities that make a good friendship the next one is for some children that's enough they begin to see that it's a toxic relationship and they can then begin to distance themselves but for others it takes more time and we should not get ourselves into this situation where we become confrontational with our children you must not play with that child you are not allowed to go out with that teen or whatever it might be we need to be patient they may not see the issues right away and being forceful with our children may well alienate them and then they won't come back and we don't want to do that ultimately if our children we're having those conversations we're able to bolster their self-confidence and their self-esteem and remind them of the wonderful qualities that make our children great friends and helping them so we're topping up that aspect of them and helping them and reminding them to see that then it is so much more powerful because what we have to remember is if our child has found themselves in a situation where they're in a toxic friendship maybe it's not a toxic friendship it's a toxic friendship it's a toxic friendship our children's self confidence and self-belief was already pretty low which made them more vulnerable to this or maybe their confidence was not low but has now become low as a result of this toxic friendship if we simply say to our children you must not or our teens you must not hang out with that person the likelihood is if their confidence is low and they've not come to that decision themselves if they've not been able to use their voice to have those boundaries and to begin to state what they do and do not want to do then the likelihood is they're going to find themselves vulnerable and will end up in another toxic relationship so if we're helping our children see this themselves by being patient by being there to listen by asking the right questions by just drip feeding things helping them see that and then they come to that realization it is so much more powerful and they are much much less likely to find themselves in that situation again so it is worth the investment it is worth that kind of pain and heart-wrenching feeling that we get that our child is not being taken care of and loved and valued in that way because they will get there i can absolutely promise you that they will but it will be so much more powerful and so much more helpful for them so be patient and then it's about once our child has recognized that we've been patient it's what we then want to do is helping our children and our kids to be more patient and our teens then distance themselves without big drama or statement of intent so we i don't think it's necessarily helpful for our children to then have this well i'm no longer going to be your friend because you're unkind now sometimes things might come to a head in a particular situation but i do think it's so much more powerful and again we're trying not to villainize and have a character assassination on this other individual this other child or teen it's much better for our children to be more patient and then it's about once our child has recognized our children to begin to distance themselves from that friendship and it might be around spending investing time in creating other friendships for your child and it will all depend on the situation it may also mean that you need to get school involved you need to let them know what's been happening not from a you want them to intervene necessarily in some situations we do but just as a support basis you know we're this is about we're raising children together collectively not it's not just it's not parents against schools it's not teachers and we're working together so having that conversation with schools of you know tom has been it hasn't been in a great friendship he's recognized that it isn't helpful his his friendship with jack and what he's chosen to do is he's going to begin to distance himself and it would be wonderful if you could help support him when he's feeling slightly wobbly that he might want to come to you and have a conversation or helping him kind of see you know what's going on other friendships that might be healthy for him and helpful for him so it's about having that remember with the scaffolding that's of this building that is our children's home that they're going to be creating it's where might we also need to enlist some more help with that scaffolding our child is doing the work but they know that they've got the support system around them so it's helping our child begin to distance themselves and for some that might be easier than others if it's been a very intense sort of duo and they've been doing it for a long time and they've that friendship has been really toxic and maybe they're in a year group that doesn't have a lot of other children or maybe there are established other friendship groups that our child is going to find difficult to begin to break in then that distancing can be more difficult and that's where we may need to enlist more support and help and have conversations with school about how can we how can we do this together how might we be able to help tom or sophie or whoever it is to be able to break and create that bit of space for them to be able to break in and help them with their that distance in a kind and compassionate way so that they're then able to remove themselves from that so it's really helpful to kind of view this as a collective responsibility something that you're all doing together so the strategies again are listening to the stories that our children tell but listening so we can paraphrase asking questions which probe so we can really clarify whether it's a toxic relationship or a toxic relationship and we can really clarify whether it's or not helping our children to see patterns of behavior as not being healthy so this red and green friends qualities of a good friendship and that's also getting our children to identify what are the qualities that make them a good friend so that they can recognize what is fabulous about themselves be patient let's not get into this forceful head banging scenario where we're making our children do things and alienating ourselves from them it's helping them see the issues but i understanding that it may take them some may take some time and helping our children then begin to distance themselves helping to problem solve how might we begin to distance ourselves what are the challenges how might we overcome them what might be the first step so it may be that there's a transition period it doesn't happen immediately but our child begins to distance themselves and then with each day they begin to distance themselves they grow in their confidence and they feel better able to do other things so my give this week will be these three things that top five strategies in a checklist as usual with space and opportunities to reflect underneath so it serves you as that reminder but also you can use it as a practical tool maybe make some notes underneath as to what you might need to do or where you're at in that conversation with your children as ever head over to my free resource library drmaryhan.com forward slash library where you'll find the link to download not only this resource but all the resources across all my podcast episodes all you need to do is pop in your email address and you'll get instant access as ever if you have enjoyed this episode i would love it if you could follow and review this podcast so that others can find us and we can spread the love so until next time
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