🎙️ Toward Solutions Podcast | Episode 9: Glimmers, Practice, and Possibility with Victoria Spatchenko

So, but yeah, you're right, there is a, if you look at the scale of this project, like solution-focused, you can, it looks like a very big project. And if you travel all the way to the small glimpses of, glimpses of something, I mean, glimmers, yeah, it looks like from very big, from something which is very big to something that is very small, but it's all connected, because the big thing is meat of very small things. Yeah. Hello and welcome to the Toward Solution podcast where creativity meets practical application. I'm Deon Singh. And I'm Jason Pasco. Together, we dive deep into the world of solution focus, exploring its transformative power across a variety of contexts. Come join us each month as we engage in enlightening conversations with experts and practitioners who are applying solution focus in their unique environments. Whether you're looking to enhance your personal life, professional practice, or community projects, our discussions will provide you with valuable insights and actionable ideas. Tune in to discover how you can implement solution-focused practices in your own context, unlocking new possibilities and creative solutions. Let's embark on this journey of exploration and innovation together. If you like this podcast, leave us a review and subscribe now so you don't miss an episode of Toward's Solutions. Victoria, you and I have never met, but I first saw you. I think it was an SFIO video on YouTube where Peter Roryk coached you using the user's guide to the future framework. You can correct me if I've got the timeline wrong, but you talked about the Ukraine becoming solution focused at the time. And I know a lot's happened since then. And then you wrote a book, How to Solve Problems Without Discussing Them. That's long time ago. Then I wrote another book for teachers and parents, but it is a new Ukrainian. And after that, so I made a new version which was called "Move from Problem to Solution" and this is about the basics. This is a practical guide that could be read within 40 minutes for managers and other people. What I noticed was that when I saw you and Peter coached you and you held up your chart that was the user's guide to the future, the notes from the coaching. And then most recently, probably only a few months ago, you were talking about collecting glimmers. And those small, those micro moments of that just sparkle even a little bit and you talked about glimmers of hope. And can you tell us a bit about that kind of journey of the big picture and what you discovered along the way and now you're at these micro moments of glimmers? Yeah, right. I was coached by Peter and Mark and that was as far as I remember in Budapest in 2019, I think. And they presented in UT two four coaches. And so they asked for a volunteer with a project which is longer than half a year. And I was hesitant and a little bit if I would like to share this, it was a big audience. And then I decided, yeah, so I won't do that. And I said that I've got this project and I have pointed myself a project manager for the solution focus to crane because I would like you crane to be more solution focused. By the way, we were discussing if some people could be solution focused. I think also some countries are more solution focused than others. So yeah, that was my kind of my project. And I think that many people were surprised because they said that the scale of the project is really very big and they asked if I'm not afraid thinking about this scale of project. Obviously, I was not afraid because I think that, you know, in the solution focus approach, we are speaking about the importance of small steps. And of course, I realized that my project is goes beyond my lifespan. But it does not necessarily have to keep me away from doing some small steps towards that. And then you never know how it will go because you think that you have done something small, but then it comes back to you in a bigger scale and you think that you only coached one person in solution focused approach. But then all of a sudden you discover that 10 more people benefited from this. So you never know. I do remember several years ago, I published a calendar, the solution focus calendar. And I only published I think maybe 300 copies. But then I received so many different positive pieces of feedback. And many more people benefited from this calendar because the companies put them in their office premises, in the in the meeting rooms, etc. Then their visitors came to see them and they also read some pieces from this calendar. So you never know. I think that what is important that you just make a new step every day. And then I never calculated how many people are most solution focused now in Ukraine or how many people read my book or I'd never calculate how many people were at my facilitation sessions or training. I just do something every day and I think it will pay back. So but yeah, you're right. There is a if you look at the scale of this project like solution focused Ukraine, this it looks like a very big project. And if you travel all the way to this small glimpses of glimpses of something, I mean, glimmers. Yeah, it looks like from very big from something which is very big to something that is very small. But it's all connected because the big thing is made of very small things. And glimmer and came naturally only I would say a year probably ago maybe a year and a half ago. When I listened, I came across a short video of Deb Dana who pioneered this term. And it was I mean, it was I think that we actually we all know how to blimmer. We are natural, naturally know how to blimmer. And we all experienced limmering. But this that was just a word. So you put like you never sent me Jason. You put now my face on my name. Now the same I put a name on on something that I think all of us were know and glimmering with all glimmer. But that was so simple and I like simple things. I think that life is generally simple. It was a mistake and that's yeah, but that's what I think. And yeah, I started to practice immediately and then I decided that I had to share this with my colleagues in Mejelen earlier this year. And I'm happy that some of them take it from me and then started to practice further. And this is this is very important I think. And right, during the last year, I have been practicing Lord with the glimmer of hope mainly because I am in the context of the war. And it comes naturally. So it means that I simply ask people this different questions about how the glimmer of hope feels like, of sounds like or looks like, whatever. Yeah. And it changes the perception of the person. It shifts it from, you know, everything's hopeless to yeah, there is a hope and my hope looks like that or sounds like that or feels in my body like that. And this I think this is important. And in other questions which I often often ask here now, this is the question about probability that something good can happen in their lives because sometimes really people are in a very difficult situation. It's very, it's in the survival mode, I would say so. And then if you ask, yeah, if you, yeah, of course you empathize and you're trying to, you are trying to understand them because you can never understand them. So they what their own experience is. But at least you are trying to bridge your experience with their experience. And then at a certain moment you said, yeah, I, I, I realized that life is, is not treating you very well at this moment. But what do you think is the probability that it will shift towards being a little bit better. And then even thinking about the probability makes a person to shift their perspective. Yeah, so that was a long answer to your question. Jason. Fabulous. Fabulous. Fabulous. Really interesting. Can you teach us how, how to Glimmer. How to Glimmer? But you know that you are from beginning. Some people say, "Ah, this is a ha moment or something. These are very small moments of joy and connection. I think the word connection is very important because if you are connected, you are now, you are in this present moment and then this is a very special feeling. But, yeah, you can train. Yeah, yes. So answer the question, you can train your brain to Glimmer, which means that you are paying conscious attention towards special moments when you feel a little bit differently. And it could be anything because of course, each person is individual, is very different from other people is unique. Yeah, so you come across something that resonates deeply with you that gives you this very small but very powerful moment of joy and connection. And then you have to slow down and to recognize it, yeah, to recognize it, to see and to feel it with your five senses or six senses. Yeah. And of course, there are some tools like you can have the Glimmer and Diary for instance because I do have the Glimmer and Diary for some time. Why the Glimmer in Diary is important because again, you learn how to notice the Glimmers and then you can use them, especially during your difficult times when something or everything goes not your way. Then you can just open this diary of Glimmers and you can get reconnected to those important moments, powerful moments and you feel more powerful. I heard you mention. In an interview about sending people on a hunt for Glimmers in their phone. Yeah, this is simple. Yeah. And also collecting Glimmers from the front line. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So with the mobile hunting Glimmers, I hunted for Glimmers with your mobile phone, it's a very simple exercise and by the way, so I shared this exercise today with my Hungarian, with our Hungarian colleagues. They had a wonderful conference earlier this year and you know, so why it was wonderful, I think that it was 100% practical. So they asked colleagues to contribute and exercise or practical assignment or whatever and they would have started to practice it right, right now, yes, from the very beginning. And I shared this exercise about hunting for Glimmers. When you have to look through your gallery in mobile phone and find a photo that you consider to be your Glimmer, which has a very special meaning for you, which is of significance for you, that brings you calm and joy and connection and you know, a range of very positive emotions. And then to investigate why you feel towards this photo, like that. So what was special in that photo? Just to analyze your inner reaction to this. And to share this with your colleagues with your friends so that they could also give you some feedback on this, because there was something else probably that was Glimmer and for them. For each of us, we can have different Glimmers, yeah. Yeah, so that was the exercise. And if you ask me about my work, I wouldn't say work, my communication with my friends or acquaintances who are on the front line, I think for them also it works very well, I'm in Glimmer and works very well. Because you know, even if you are on the front line, you still remain a person, I mean a human being and you still come across very special, tiny moments that you appreciate and you are thankful for. And even there, you can find some moments of, you know, this deep connection and enjoy them and the more you learn to appreciate them and to look for them and to notice them. The health here you are, I mean mental health is very important now here. We've got the OU Ukrainian Mental Health Program, which is called HALA U. And even in this program HALA U there is a special chapter about Glimmering. How to Glimmer with OU5 sensors. I think this is a very healthy practice and I wouldn't encourage everyone to learn some elements of Glimmering. One of the things, and we normally ask this question a little bit, probably a little bit further on, but it seems like a good spot for it. We, one of the reasons we started this podcast was we really wanted listeners to be able to listen to it and walk away and try something new, try something different that they'd learn. So if you were to talk to, you know, someone who's not maybe even not even familiar with solution focused and he's just listening to this podcast, how would you, how would you teach them to Glimmer? If you came across something that resonates deeply with you, you, you notice this moment, you slow down, you embarrass it, you feel that was all your senses, yeah, and you are grateful for this moment. And when you come home, you register that in your Glimmering diary. So this is about slowing down and about noticing things because yeah, I do remember there was a very nice book and the name of the author slipped memory, but the title was "Since that you can only see when you slow down." And really, because, I mean, you do not notice many things because you rush, because you're in a hurry, and they just pass they escape from you. But when you slow down, you see more things, yeah, and you can enjoy life better, I think, was slowing down. Fabulous. So Victoria, what do you really love about the solution focused approach? There's one question that I love in particular in this solution focused approach, and this is the question we all know. What would you like to have instead? Yeah, I think, I think, you can use it anywhere, yeah, in any conversation, even if it is a very short conversation and, you know, and you do not have a lot of time to demonstrate the whole arsenal of the solution focused instruments and tools. Still, this is one question that shifts the perspectives that makes a person to think about what they really wants instead of what they have to enjoy some glimpses of their preferred future. So I love this the the the the school question and I think that I ask the school question more than others. It's also one of the outfavorites I think Victoria, you're in you're in good in good covered company? Yes yes exactly. Also, what I love about actually I agree with you when you say that certain focus approach gives you freedom. I absolutely absolutely agree because you you you give freedom to a person to think about them about about what they want yeah in life but also you give the freedom to yourself not to be trapped by the story you hear but to look deeper into the situation yeah which means that you are involved but you are not involved you are at the same time you you are you are more of the observer but of course you are also a participant and this is fascinating that you that you can combine both roles yeah to be a part of the conversations for instance and to be an observer at the same time and to exchange between this two and um it makes it brings a volume into the conversation I think which is very important. When when did you discover the solution focus approach? I knew Jason you would ask this question earlier later. Honestly I don't have a clear answer because when I'm thinking about you know do I know about did I know about the solution focus approach 15 years ago no I think that I learned about the solution focus approach 12 13 years ago but it was not it was not a person who introduced me to that approach I don't know I just I think that I came across it somehow and then I I was interested and then I learned about the the community and I went to the conferences and And I love the community because the community is absolutely fantastic as we're all now. And I liked the approach. And for me, it was like a very natural way. So there was a situation in my life when I was sitting next to a colleague. And that was a strategic session. And this colleague, he asked, okay, Victor, how long have you been practicing solution focused approach for strategic planning? And I said, I have been using the what? Yeah, because I did the solution focused approach. And I've heard nothing about solution focused approach then. And I asked, and I said, but I know nothing about this approach. What kind of thing is it? And she said, but that's what you have been doing for the last two hours. And that's why when I asked you do things, when people are more, you know, in clients, they are more solution focused. I think that some people are naturally more solution focused. And that's what I have experienced also. Many times because after each consultation session, there are a couple of people or even more who say, you know, I am solution focused person. I didn't know that this approach exists. Yeah, existed, but I think that I have been practicing. And yes, I think these people are right. Because there was also a moment in my life that was after that was maybe in 2021. I think when I asked myself a question, do people have to know something about the solution focused approach to practice it? And my answer was no. They should not necessarily know what solution focused approach is. They can practice it. They can only, you know, learn one question because you shared this question with them. And yeah, they started already to practice the approach without even knowing it. And knowing this. Yeah. Actually, I when I asked this question and when I decided that people should not necessarily know the term to practice it, to practice the approach, then I decided that I would name this approach like solution focused light. And that's what I have been using. I have been using that light version of solution focused approach. And light. The fabulous. It made me think it made me think about like part of actually part of my journey because I when I moved out of a leadership role, I was a leader in a school. And I started, I took on some project work around mental health. And because I had no line management, leveraging conversations anymore, I had to try and work out a way of making conversations work between health and education. So I'd move from education into health. And I had different key performance indicators than they had different outcomes they were looking for. So I think you're right. It took another two years before I found the solution focused approach, but I was focusing on what worked and what didn't work without that line management leverage to in a conversation. So maybe it was, yeah, the situation that I was then in that I had to look for a new way of doing things. No, thank you also for sharing your example because yeah, sometimes it's faster, sometimes it's slower, but we're always looking for something that works better. Yeah. And you're right. I was doing it or elements of it. But once I had, once I had a name for it, then I could connect with the community. I could read more about it. I could try and fit some pieces and I could get better at it. Yeah, which means that actually that the community of the solution focused people is much larger that we can, we can expect. We think that, yeah, that only those people who come to the conferences and exchange a solution focused, but actually there are many more people around us who practice it without even knowing it. Yeah. And it's everywhere, for instance, some time ago I was analyzing the media coverages in Ukraine and other countries about the Russian full-scale war against Ukraine. And what I discovered that, you know, to a certain point to a certain extent, our messages are this more or less the same. But in many European countries, the coverage ends at the point when everything is absolutely awful. And of course, this is correct because people are killed, the buildings are destroyed. We haven't lived in a very, very difficult circumstances. But in Ukraine, the media coverage has never stopped at the point when everything is awful. Yeah. Disaster. But there is always another step that speaks about how we deal with this situation, how we cope, how we manage, how strong we are. Yeah. And we have developed this language of strength rather than the language of victims. And also, Ukraine is a victim in this war. Yeah. But we do not think, feel and act as victims. We think, act and feel as winners. And that is very helpful. That I think that, you know, that we didn't know that he would take Ukraine in three days. And many people in other countries also believe that because if you look at the scale, at the size of Russia and. And there. And there. And their policies and everything. So it could it was very difficult to believe that Ukraine would. Would demonstrate a different behavior. But we did. And that's also because of this language. So so actually this is also a language of the solution focused approach, I would say so. Because when you own this step at this point or everything is so bad, this is a disaster. Yeah. So you, you, you, you are paralyzed. You cannot move forward. But if you say, yeah, this is, this is a disaster, but we are able to cope with this. We are able to manage. We are strong enough because we've got this, this and this. Then you can, you can demonstrate a different behavior and a different standard. So it's everywhere. Wow. How, how have you seen that different language? Or even how does that different language impact you and how you, your hope? Yes. Seven hours. Influence me in this given context for generally. Whichever you would like to answer. I think words are very important in general. And interestingly, interestingly, I came across a research. I think one of my colleague, colleague from the intercultural world, because of course I'm in intercultural code. Yeah. First of all, so she, I think I, she, she shared an article. About how language shapes ourselves. Yeah. That's, that's, that's important. And words matter. And as I said, that, for instance, if the rhetoric inside the country now would be different. Then we would not probably. Become winners. But every, every, let's, let's have a look at my day, for instance. Yeah. That was a night of sharing. And there is no electricity at the moment when we are talking. But if I open, you know, if I listen to immediate messages or I talk to my friends. Or the messages I receive via, I don't know, messengers. So they're like, good morning, unbreakable people. Good morning. And this is another great day for us to accomplish something. Or, and you know, so this kind of messages from the very early hours. They influence my. The way I think about this day, so I think about this day as a new opportunity. And not something that I have to survive through. Yeah. We, we, we hear we do not, we didn't suspend our life. Which is we continue leaving our life. In a different, more difficult circumstances. And then whenever you go, whatever you, you know, do. The language people have been speaking here in Ukraine in this context. Most of the people. They influence. And this is the good question. So, okay, if they influence, so a kind of. positively, are we trying to escape from the reality? I will line ourselves. I don't think so. I think we have been just trying to use all the tools, all the instruments to be more prepared to deal with the circumstances that we are in. So in the case solutions focus approach fits very well because it's always about preferred preferred future preferred preferred preferred preferred reality I would say. So and there is yeah we always constructed, co-construct our reality. So this is this is very helpful to notice what we've got already to understand our strengths rather than weaknesses, to know where where you would like to to move in which direction you would like to move to this this things are very important. And of course they are conveyed through by words and so the language is very important. The words are very important. Well, Victoria you mentioned that part of your role now is as an intercultural coach and I know your background a little bit you started as a teacher and then you went through a whole range of different managerial roles and and holding roles and others. So how are you using the solution focused approach in your current context in your work at the moment? I think I do not know those people who do not work with the solution focused approach but leave solutions focused away. So sometimes you don't even notice how you use it. Yeah, this is it just comes naturally you talk to a person in the street and then all of a sudden you understand you realize that you have been using the elements of the solution focused approach because they naturally build into your into everything you do or you say. And from the very beginning I was thinking about like four different categories, four different target audiences that I would like to apply the solution focused approach with. But of course I mean I'm not limited by these four categories only but professionally I work with businesses and different organizations here with schools and educational establishments with ministries and local authorities. Plus sometimes if I can have this opportunity I work with journalism, because you know the solution focus journalism is something that is very important I think. And several years ago together with partners here we realized an interesting project that was about the solution focus journalism that that was that was an interesting project but also I know that there is another organization here in Ukraine that has been promoting the solution focus in journaling in Ukraine. So these are the four categories four target audiences. And I do that through different instruments or different I do that differently with each audience. I do that through presentations and workshops and you know just speaking about the solution focus at the conferences and doing practical practical projects with organizations so through many ways I think yeah. In my intercultural work I have been using this as well. At the intercultural coaching sessions I have been using solution focus approach a lot. Wow. One of the questions that was buzzing around in my head is like that's a pretty broad four categories to use it. What's something that surprised you in a really good way using a solution focus approach in one of those areas? Who asked you what surprised me? Yeah I even I ask myself what surprises me at all. Can I be surprised by something? I think yeah I should have been surprised by something that yeah I think that I'm surprised that when I when I discuss solution focus approach with people I am surprised that for many of many of people the approach seems to be easy to apply first. And only after some time they discover that it is not as simple as they thought it was at the beginning. Because you know sometimes people think that okay I will start asking the right questions and then I will get I will I will have different answers and it changes everything and they are right in a way but I often say that there are two layers in the solution focus approach but generally I think when you talk about anything in life. So and there is this upper level or I would say that this is superficial level but this is an easy level to learn then when you start doing something a little bit differently you've got a different result. Yes. But there is also this deeper level because if you would like to do something differently and continue doing this for a long period of time with changes you and change changes the paradigms in your life and changes your life at the end. So you have to to to to to to to to to go through deeper changes like you have to review something inside of you maybe your values your principles your approaches to life yeah and it takes more time because you you have to go through the major changes in in your life. For instance when we say you know when you give feedback to other birds that this is a session which is very much in demand how to give the feedback in the solution focused way so I don't know how many sessions I have already delivered but really I mean organizations companies they love to discuss how to give the feedback in the solution focused way. So and when we arrive it's when we when we say that actually given given feedback in the solution focused way means that you do not give the feedback because this is the person or the people themselves who give the feedback feedback. So your role is not give is not to give the feedback but actually to support their ability to to give the cell is cell feedback then some people they say yeah but it it means that I'm not telling them what I like and what I dislike and what they have done yeah it is like yes you do not do that because this is actually useless. Yeah so if they are interested they will ask you but instead you provide them for this space and opportunity to discuss what they have done and to come to their own conclusions and to plan their own steps forward etc and they say yeah but it means that I have to trust them 100% yes yeah and this could be a problem because it's not a problem to learn the questions that you ask when you give the feedback and you start okay so out of everything you have done what do you think you can be proud of or so what do you like what do you think the strengths of the project etc so this is the question of course you ask this question you receive a different answer yeah so but to be able to to pause and to wait until they ask for your perspective so yeah you have to trust these people 100% and you have to be very reserved maybe in this situation and not so many people are ready to do that because they would like to jump to this phase that yeah I have listened to your feedback to you on your project but now listen to me yeah and which means that if you ask different questions you've got different answers but to use this solution focused approach this is not enough it's a good step but this is not enough you go you have to go deeper and to ask yourself very difficult questions do I trust other people do I think that they are experts of themselves and if I think that they go wrong the way should I say that etc etc and then when people discover that there is this deeper level they of course they they understand that it's more work to be done. And yeah, and this is I think this is this is what surprises them. And of course, that surprised me also when I started to practice the approach. We have a lot a lot a lot a lot to discover and read discover and think and yeah, and you have to change because ultimately search focused approach is always about change. Wow. What do you think? So what surprises you? What surprises me? Yeah, look, it's different in different situations, isn't it? It surprises me often how quickly people want to answer solution focused questions. Even if they've been talking about the problems, challenges or issues for so long. But if we can hold a space and trust them. And I think that speaks volumes, what you were just saying about our solution focused assumptions, people, situations, then yeah, it surprises me that even in some really, really tough situations, people will find a way. That description, Victoria, because I've often thought and heard people say and agree with you know that solution focused is you know, it takes a minute to learn but a lifetime to master. But I think that's the first time that I've had a really good explanation as to why it is really a process of change. That's a really interesting, you know, that we do have to change ourselves and how we see people because we can easily learn to ask a question like what else, you know, or instead, you know, what would you like instead? And we can start to do that straight away, but to go deeper, it can be a, you know, it's a lifetime of change and discovery. So I really, I think that's a very deep answer to, you know, kind of, you know, something that people would just, take some, you know, a minute to learn that a lifetime to master or a lifetime to learn more about. So yeah, really enjoy that answer. I'm wondering if you were to, you know, meet somebody who doesn't know, you know, anything about solution focus, how would you describe it to them? What do you tell people this thing is that you do this way of working? You know, I think that actually I don't think that people don't know anything about this solution focus approach. I think that everyone knows something about this solution focus approach, even if the person doesn't have the name, yeah, or the title. As I said, I just, I accept and, no, I, I always believe that people are already connoisseurs of the solution focus approach, they know something. So I would, I would start from, from, from there, from that point, yeah. So if person knows already something about the solution focus approach, then for me, that's important to, to, to ask him and to discover what exactly they know. And again, as I said, I don't think that people should even know the, the word solution focus approach itself to, again, to practice it. So if, for instance, I talk to a person and I don't know, we're talking about some not better pleasant things, then I would try to shift attention of the person to a different alternative to, to, to some other perspectives to alternatives. And I would simply ask, are there any other alternatives possible? And the moment we start to discuss alternatives, I believe that we have already started to talk solution focus approach. Yeah, because if you, if you, if you do not see a single truth, but you are able to expand to see other sides of something, to investigate them, then you are already knows, so you already know something about the solution focus approach. Yeah. Because also, so we know solution focus approach is about exploring alternatives. Yeah. So in this case, we just expense the perspective and we explore more alternatives. And that's how we, I think, practice already solution focus approach because out of all the alternatives, people are so strange, they always find, they always choose the best for them. Yeah. I'm going to build on Dion's question because one of the things I do, Victoria, is I own a cafe as well as do the other stuff that I do. And I had an interesting conversation with one of our customers in the cafe the other day because he asked me what I did outside of the cafe. And I mentioned the solution is a coffee, is it a surrogate, is it a coffee shop, is it? That's great. And, and I was describing to you, I said, look, I use this way of having conversations called solution focus approach. I'm really good at that. Give me a problem and I'll solve it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you say to someone like that? About what you do. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting because I always, yeah, I often, I often meet this people as well. Yeah. They say, when they, they say, yeah, I'm solution focus because I always look for solutions instead of problems. So I'm trying to solve problems. So then what I usually say, I say, you know, that's great that you have been doing this. This is wonderful. Instead of being trapped in the problem, you're trying to, you know, go through, yeah, break through to the to the solution. And how do you break through? And how do you know what your breakthrough will be if you do not know there's your resources, your strengths. Then before breaking through to the solution, so probably we could pause a little bit and to learn a little bit more about our strengths and about the resources we have. Yeah. And people usually are surprised. Yeah, this is another surprise. Yeah. Sometimes people are surprised at this phase because they think that solution focus approach is about just like, we fix the problem, we find the solution. But between this fix and the problem and Russian to the solution, there is a very important phase. And this phase is exploring their resources and strengths. And that's what usually and usually people and organizations they skip totally. Yeah. But that's very important. And usually I would like to draw the attention to this to be more to be more careful not to jump to the solution right away. But to make this pause very useful pause and to explore, okay, so but what useful experiences I have, what strands I have, what resources is there available to me, available to me, etc. Then your solution is much better usually. So I would really draw the attention to the fact that between, you know, between this fix and problem and Russian to solution, there is this very important phase to build bases for a change. And we built this platform for a change by exploring our potential, our strengths, our resources. And that usually makes our decisions better. That makes sense. Yeah, I love that idea of the hang on. Let's just pause. Let's just pause before you run off in that direction. And think about what's working for you already. What are your resources? And you know what is interesting that sometimes people when they explore their resources and their strengths, etc. Sometimes they develop even a better decision, better solution. Yeah, because I've got so many different things here in stool. So I can make a different decision. So I can even make a braver decision. Yeah. That's because if you don't know what you're good, you can only think of small things. But if you explore what you've got already available to you, then you say, okay, probably I can make something bigger. So that's why when I say that the decisions are usually better after you have explored all the resources and strategies. - That was yeah, in many cases the decisions are better. - Victoria, I feel like we could continue talking for at least another hour, but well, probably actually for maybe the rest of your day and into our night. But yeah, I just wanted to thank you so much for taking the time to have a conversation with us and using your hour of battery in your laptop to be able to be able to do that. We really can't let that out. - I'll come in and say I'm following. (laughing) - An honor and a privilege, you know, that you would prioritize us to be able to have a conversation with us and for our listeners. So thank you so much. It's been a really rich and interesting conversation. I've learned so much. I'm looking forward to listening to it again. Where can we find out more about what you're doing? What's the best place that we can directly listen to, you know, read your work by your books, anything like that? - I consent you the links. I would like to thank you and I know that my English is not very good and also I know that I, you know, for me it was just always difficult to deliver my thoughts because, you know, I think that people are divided into thinkers and feelers, yeah? So those people, those people who think they can express themselves better. But unfortunately, I'm a person that feels more than things, yeah? So sometimes, you know, because when you feel that is like your thoughts are they crowded in your heads. And of course, you cannot express all of them. You cannot usually find the right words probably. Yeah, so this is my problem. I have been working with this. So thank you for being patient with that. - Hi. I think you've been absolutely brilliant. You've expressed your thoughts very clearly in English. So thank you for the effort that that must take. - Absolutely. And it's really prompted some great conversation and some good thinking. - I continue asking questions because yeah, I like more asking questions than answering them probably. And I was, when I see people, especially when I see new people, I mean, to me, you are new people that are coming into my life now today. So I'm very curious. So I would rather explore something around you than around this little focus approach and myself, et cetera. So yeah, unfortunately, I didn't have this opportunity to learn more about you, but make a one day. - Would you like to ask us any questions before we stop recording? Or maybe you'd like to ask it. - You can stop recording. (laughing) - Let's do that for us, shall we? (laughing) (upbeat music) - Thank you for joining us on the Toward Solutions podcast. We hope today's insights inspire you to apply solution focused in your own life and projects. Whether you're applying these strategies in your personal life, professional practice or community projects, we're excited to see the impact you create. - If you found this episode useful, please leave us a review and share it with others who might benefit from out of discussions. Your support really helps us to reach more people and continue to bring new quality content. Stay tuned for more enlightening conversations subscribe now and let's continue this journey towards solutions together. (upbeat music)