TOWARD SOLUTIONS 2.0 | Episode 1 - Andrew Gibson: The Ripple Effect

[Music] Welcome to Toward Solutions 2.0, The Deeper Dive. This is where we dive back into the stories of previous guests and find out where they're at now and what they're doing. And we take the time to jump into other people's stories of how they're using solution-focused practices and their impact. I'm Jason Pasco. And on day on seeing, we hope you're enjoying these slightly shorter episodes in a different format. If you get value out of it, we'd love to hear about it. So please leave us a review. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss out on the next episode. And if you get value out of it, share it with the people around you. [Music] Yeah, so thanks Andrew for coming back. And obviously we didn't scare you off too much the first time. The first conversation. And yeah, really enjoyed the conversation that we had. You know, I guess I'm consistently grateful for you and your work. And what you do, because I think for myself in the work that I do, it's just reassuring and really useful for me. So I appreciate that. And anyway, so you got in touch and you said that there was a bit of a story to tell. And so we thought we'd better organize the time to catch up. And yeah, hear the yarn. Yeah, so it was great to be guest number two on your amazing podcast. And the guests you had, you know, Anton before me and the guests you had since, it'd been fantastic. So I had to offer you both for putting this together. But I wanted you to know that your podcast with me started a little story, which is resulted in the publication of another book. And it traces itself back to your podcast. And indeed, I re-listened to our episode in preparation for our conversation today. And even the title of the book is in that podcast. Everything was in that podcast that then turned into the book. So it was fascinating to hear how my thoughts were starting to coalesce in that conversation. But, but yeah, what happened was soon after our podcast, I think that was February, last year, February 2025, I went to Belgium for the Soul World conference, which was fantastic. 140 people there. And interestingly, they didn't have name badges. You can imagine as an ex-BNI chap, wasn't convinced about that personally, but anyway. And so, you know, we just started there and this Belgian woman, a young woman called Lisa Loppaton comes up to me and says, "Oh, you're Andrew Gibson." Yeah, nice to meet you. She said, "I hope you don't mind. I'd like to use your Red Square Green Circle model with my clients and in my trainings. Would that be okay?" And of course, yeah, of course, I'm flattered. Wow, thank you very much. And I said, "Wait, I don't think you might have not seen published this anyway, but so I asked her, where did you hear about this?" And she said, "Oh, I heard it on the Toward Solutions podcast." So there you go, credit to you guys. You've got this message out there. So this was interesting. And then the, as a conference for Grace, so you know, obviously, at every conference, we are blessed with the most amazing group of authors. I've never been in a community where so many books have been written by so many people and they are, you know, they're all fantastic. They're contributing something to the amazing library that we've got. So there's a book table at the conference and it's full of books, including my two books. And as the conference progresses, all the books are selling until eventually there's just two piles of my books and they haven't sold. And I'm that isn't it. Never mind, you know. And I'm doing my talk on the Saturday morning, which is the the last morning before wrap up. There were the last sessions before wrap up. And I was doing a talk on the NHS project, which it's actually finished in April there. The powers that be we were improving productivity, improving team morale, but they decided not to continue. So hopefully that's just a pause and not a complete stop, but I'm off doing other things now. So but I want to update people about the NHS project like I've done at the UK Association conference the year before. And I had my slides. I was already got there nice and early on the Saturday morning and my computer wouldn't talk to the screen. So okay, well we've got tech help, we've got tech support and the tech guy comes out and he's on, we'll get another screen. So he gets another screen and my computer wouldn't talk to that one ever. So I've got 25 for so people in this room. I was there at 9 o'clock, it's now quarter to 10. I should have started at half past nine. So what do we do? Well, this is a wonderful thing about solution-focused community, isn't it? Well, what can we do? What's a possibility? So I decided to do the talk without the screen. And I had my little iPad and from top of me so I could see where I was in my talk. And the only time I actually shared any visuals was when we went through the Red Square Green Circle model. And it went really well. I was very, very well received. There's actually recording of it on the SFIO website because SFIO sponsored the conference and recorded lots and lots of sessions. So it's there and it's a video recording of me with no visuals. So it was the weirdest thing to being recorded while not actually presenting just doing it all. Anyway, so I pack up and put all my stuff away and then come upstairs to get a coffee and learn what hold all my books have gone. And I'm okay. So that's interesting. So not only has, you know, you get feedback in a talk, people tell you it's great, it's got a little L and so on. But that was a really good sign that actually the message was resonated. So then, following on from the big conference, the Big Forward Conference, SFIO had organized a retreat at Landon Z, which is this wonderful place that Lisa LaBite Art has created with her husband, Michiel. And it's a beautiful place in the country and in the Netherlands. And there were 22 overstated, I think. And it was a self-organized, hook-created retreat. So the first night we were there, John and Annie and Eva who were hosting it did some exercises so we could get in with to plan our, our couple of days worth of activities. And we drew activities that we wanted to see. We wanted to notice and drew them on these big rolls of flip-chop paper. They were put up on the wall. And then on the morning, we would all gather around and say, "Okay, here's my offer. I'm going to do this at this time and if somebody would let's come with me, that's great." So on the second morning, on the Sunday morning, I'd woken up with a bit of an epiphany and had this kind of thought of actually the podcast, Lisa LaBite, picking it up from the podcast, the talk with just the visuals, nothing else, all the other slides, deeply been. This is something I need to do about this. And so I tried, I think I'd mentioned to you last time, I tried many times to write this down in a normal book. So the first two books are about 25,000 words and there are dozens chapters and they look pretty much like a book. And every time I'd written, it started to write, I wrote one chapter and then ran out of things to see. And I was thinking, my publisher's not going to publish one chapter, that's not a book. And I've been asking, "Is there a paid part, but there's no research in here, this is what's going on?" So I thought, no, I have it now, it's going to be a picture book. And so on the Sunday morning, my offer, I said, "It's a beautiful day," I said, "I'm going to be out on the back garden and I'm going to write a book." And if anybody would like to come and join me, please do. Okay. So if I went with my "Soul World Conference" notebook and my colored pens, which are very kindly placed in every room in London's A, and I started to write a book. And I actually have the little book here. And this is my little visual, my little visual aid, and I started writing this book. And it was quite literally written exactly as it has been published. So it took me about an hour and a half or so, and I had Catalina and Christoph, well, they were doing it. And I've tried finished. I closed the book and I said, "Here you go, I've written a book." I kind of looked at it, you walked. I thought, "Yeah, maybe have a look." And they both had a look and they were both really taken by it. And this is really good. How have you done that? Well, I don't really know. It's just one of those things. It's 18 years of learning and training and reading and talking on podcasts and listening to podcasts and so on. And it's been distilled in this. And a few other people read it and they were like, "This you've got to get this published." So fine, I got to get this published. And I came back to the UK and I rang my publisher Rick Armstrong and Rick, if you're listening. And thank you for your understanding with this because of course I sent this to him and said, "Look, I've really let it publish this." And he kind of came back going, "Really? Is that it?" You know, there's not an awful lot here. I said, "No, no, I think there's a place for this." So we had a chat and he kind of agreed to publish it. And so, and again, I have my original kind of hand printed version here of my slides and PowerPoints and so on. And it turned into this, this little book which is a five in size. It's a pocket book. It's only printed on the right hand side so that you can make notes on the left hand side. And this is my this is my little contribution to the world of solution focus practice. Excuse me. And I really just wanted to tell you guys that story and of course, listeners to the podcast that story because listening back as I say to the episode, we recorded about a year ago, every single element including the title was included in the podcast. And so your podcast was the was the start of that chain of events that followed with Lisa Lots conversation with what was what I thought was going to be a disastrous talk with those slides that then turned into probably the best talk I've ever done that then turned into a moment of inspiration to write an incredibly short book. Here you go. That's the story. Love it. That's so fantastic. And so from our end, I you did a talk with the WA interest group. And I missed that. And anyway, I was I was chatting with Carrie and she said, the books, the books really good. Andrew was, Andrew was great. And I was like, oh, that's it. I'm just going to buy, they're just going to jump on a buy a copy. So I bought a copy. I got it. And anyway, then I'd read it. And then I was flicking through the the back part and the in your in your thanks was to Jason and myself. And I thought, oh, that's weird. I wonder like, I wonder what that's about. And then I was like, I know, we've, you know, chatted once, once I think. And then, and then I got a little bit further and then read, you know, resources and then the the podcast was then there. And I was like, oh, that kind of makes sense. But I didn't know the full gravity of it until until you emailed and told the told the whole story. But what a what a what a fun ride. And like for us, it's just been great to be a part of, you know, not just your journey, but I guess many other people's journeys and, um, yes, it's been, it's been fun. So yeah, thanks for the thanks for the story and thanks for the thanks for the book. Oh, look like you. Thank you. What, um, like I love this, this the ripples like we, we had a conversation. We basically said, you know, we've got about four questions that we ask everyone. So let's see where it goes. And you know, we're in Australia and you're had a conference come a long, long, long way away from where we are. And someone says, I listened to the podcast. Can I use it? And there's this ripple. And then the next ripple and the next one. But what, what have been the ripple since you published the book? Well, so this is, um, yeah, it's it's it's like all things, um, like you with your podcast, you, you put something out there that you're very proud of, but you've no idea what's going to happen. Because that, that it's now in the hands of, of your audience, isn't it? Um, like it's kind of like having a child leave home, I guess, you know, it's like, oh, you know, you, you, you, you, you hope you've brought them up right? You hope you've turned them out right. But at the end of the day, then I'm on the room to feet and you're kind of hoping that it's all going to go well for them. Um, so yeah, since the book was published, um, it's been interesting to see it popping up in places. Um, like, like all these things. And I'm, I, I, I'm now keen to get the word out there about the book, which is another reason for, you know, being sort of delighted to go on to the podcast again. Um, the reason that I've written the book is, I think, quite important. And it is to share the four elements that make up solution focus practice. And only those four elements. Um, the, the reason for that. So, so you mentioned the, the waspig, um, talk, the adeon would say it. Yes. So, so we came to Australia and visited my relatives, um, in Perth and, and, uh, Esperance and WA, uh, back in August there. And Stephen Kerry, um, invited me on, I think you, you, you, you got set up that introduction, I think. So thank you very much for that. Um, and they invited me on to, to do a talk while I was there. And it was the first time I'd shared the essence of solution focus practice in a solution focused forum. And, uh, they were, Stephen Kerry, I don't know if you've ever been one of their guests. Uh, they're very, very thorough in their preparation for these sessions. Yeah. So, so they want me to have a question to ask, uh, beforehand, and then follow up questions afterwards, make sure it's a discussion, um, you know, returning back to early conversation, but hosting really impeccable hosting to make sure that everybody's involved and it's, um, it's an inclusive conversation. So I, okay. So I thought, well, fine, I, I'm testing a concept here with these dozen, uh, wonderful people who've come to this top. So my opening question was, what's your definition of solution focus practice? Yeah. And I asked people to put their definition in the chat or unmute themselves and tell us what they thought. And of course, we had 12 different definitions of solution focus practice. So then I went through my presentation. And of course, for those of you who don't know the book, I haven't actually counted this, but, um, this is an aside, Ann Marie Wolf in, uh, Denmark has had the most unfortunate task of reviewing my book for the general of solution focus practice. And, uh, it has been pointed out that it's the book is only 485 words long. Our challenge is to write a review that's not longer than the book. Um, and I'm, I'm curious to know the fact is cooked with that. The, the reviews apparently, I've been submitted to Mark and the editors, hopefully, um, we'll probably soon, but yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing the review. Um, but yeah, to write, to write a review of a book that's so, that is a short, as this is kind of tricky. Um, so the, uh, the, the, I go through the book, it doesn't take long to present, maybe half an hour. And then at the end, and, and again, for the benefit of anybody who's not, um, uh, not read it or not heard the last episode of this podcast, which of course I do recommend, you go and listen to. Um, the four elements are, uh, common sense social capital, um, description before action and the passage of time. And so I present the book as, as, as such. And then I ask the follow up questions where okay, have I missed anything? Is, is there one thing in that that I've missed? And I'm pleased to report that the guys couldn't think of anything. And then the other question was, okay, so we've got lots of people. I'm, I'm, um, an organizational guy. I used to work for a big, uh, business, I was an engineer and, and so on. So I don't know, but have the, uh, or even a quarter of the worlds of solution focused applications. So I said, is there another practice out there that also contains these four elements and just these four elements? And again, the answer was no. So what I'm hoping I have done is to provide the answers to the question, what is solution focused practice? Now there may be some who consider this to be controversial, uh, because it's a, it's a, it's a, I think it's a brave claim, especially when there are so many wonderful people who've gone before who've, who've created and developed the method. Um, my reason for putting this out there, though, is that I think we do need as a solution focused community to have an answer to that question. Um, and with, with, you know, with huge amounts of respect, all these wonderful people have gone before, you know, um, uh, the, if we don't have an answer to that question, then what are we selling? What are, what are our customers buying? And how do we challenge or how do we respond to the challenge when somebody says, well, isn't that just a bit like, such and such? Isn't, isn't that, in, in the organizational world, you know, people say, well, isn't that just like agile? You know, you've got this vision of what you want and you're, you're doing sprints and small, you know, in small teams. And then you're reviewing, you know, that sounds a lot like solution focus practice. Why is it different? Or you'll get people will say, "Why isn't that just like motivation interviewing?" And of course, we then end up in a debate and a discussion about the pros and cons of the different methods. But when you're arguing, you're losing. And we go out there, absolutely passionate and convinced that this wonderful practice can change the world. And wherever we get traction, it does change the world. It really does. You know, one life at a time, it can change the world. But we are going to struggle to change the world if we're constantly arguing about the wise and wear for us and the pros and cons. So we need a short, simple answer to that question, "What is solution focus practice?" And for me, it's those four things that I've put in the book. And I've deliberately just put those four things in the book because that leaves room then for all of the developments, all of the tools, all of the very clever or very simple applications. So I think you can take this little book and then you can add your flavor, your application, your brilliance. And you can use this to answer the question. And the other thing to say about that is it's about engagement. So this is something I learned from B&I actually coming back to that. Every week, the members in B&I have to give a presentation where they talk about their business and they talk about their referrals that they're looking for. And what's your URP? You might remember, brought the solution focus element of people by the difference, not what you do. Okay? So we are in that classic case where if you stand up in a B&I meeting and say, "Hi, I'm a solution focus practitioner, I offer coaching and training and if you'd like some solution focus coaching and training, let me know." People don't know what it is and they probably think they already are. So they're not going to buy it. And that's what we're up against. We need to have that answer to that question and we need to talk about the difference that makes and not get hung up on the method and how brilliant our approach is and then trying to compete it to other people's approaches. Well, yeah, thank you. Thank you for you know, crediting us in this little beautiful little book as well. Like I said, we ask some pretty simple questions but it's been amazing across all of the podcasts to see where people take those questions and maybe that's like the book. Here's the essence. Let's see where people take it from here. Thanks so much for getting up early and getting on the video. But yeah, great to catch up again. It's always good. Like a question. For having me on again. Well, we'll link all of the details in the notes of where people can get it. And yeah, thanks again. Thank you. And thank you guys. Thank you very much for all you're doing with this amazing podcast series as well. It's fantastic to hear the conversations that you've had already and sharing the joy and the love that this brings. It's been brilliant. Well done to both of you. And yeah, who knows who knows what you're starting with every podcast with every conversation. I guess as practitioners as well, who knows what we are all starting with every conversation and every, you know, they're just nice. You know, they're not all recorded as podcasts. Exactly. Yeah, I'm delighted to come back and be able to share this little story of how our conversation a year ago has turned into something, a little book. And I'm hoping that that book is going to carry on and start a whole load more stories all around the world. So rather than getting into arguments, it's just subtly saying, I'm going to do this. Thank you. It might just be enough on its own to make somebody curious to know more. And I think if it does just that thing and we can get more people curious, then we can seed the revolution. Very nice. Good night to end on. Yeah, I think that's perfect. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Toured Solutions podcast 2.0, The Deep Adive. If you've got questions or topics that you'd like covered, drop them in the comments. If you've got value out of this, we'd love to hear about it. Leave us a review. Make sure you subscribe. And most of all, share it with the people around you. We'll see you on the next one.