‘Total BULL*** From a LYING Military’’ IDF Takes On Piers Morgan, Mehdi Hasan and Hasan Piker

(upbeat music) - A camera does not give immunity to a terrorist. - They were talking of big game peers, you know, in some entries, they don't have any evidence at all. They just say multiple intelligent sources. So it's trust me, bro, we're the IDF. It's total bullshit from a lying military and they know it's bullshit 'cause they didn't come here to defend their numbers. - First of all, I'm so happy to find the Mehdi's safe and sound. - The only thing quieter than Antarctic and the winter in the last few days was Mehdi's Twitter account after all the plane hijacking. - After the grassroots in front of us, where's the evidence in this file? - I will do so in my own time. - Just like you haven't shed a tear for Israeli civilians murdered by Hamas, by the way we're commemorating. - You like? Just yesterday since, yesterday I posted about Israeli civilians you liar. You're probably the only person on this panel that killed people. - You were in the IDF. My safety's fine. - I'm privileged to have safe in America. - Oh my fuck. - Well coming up, we'll talk about the hijacking of a flight bound for Israel, by the Mahdi pilot. It'd been banned in his own country of extremist views. But we'll begin with an extraordinary propaganda campaign by the IDF which attempted to humiliate among others me. Last week the IDF took a much needed break from waging war on seven fronts. To cinematically tease revelations which would apparently prove they aren't killing real journalists in Gaza. The IDF is killed over 200 Palestinian journalists and tries to pretend they're all Hamas. - Israel assassinated numerous Al Jazeera journalists. - At least 90 Palestinian journalists and media workers have been killed in Gaza. - Israel is responsible for the biggest killing of journalists ever recorded in any conflict. - For almost three years you've heard the fake news assume we'll expose the truth they said. Well, the first truth is that I didn't simply invent the fact that many journalists have been killed in Gaza. The reporting didn't originate with many Hassan or Owen Jones either. And it certainly wasn't based on an investigation by Hassan Pica. It's based on credible fact-based reporting from neutral and trusted international bodies who do this in defense of press freedom with every conflict around the world. The committee to protect journalists is a global standard bearer. Its numbers tend to be conservative as it examines each case before adding it to the count. It says 190 journalists have been killed in Gaza. Reporters with that border says that 220 have been killed. At least 70 for the specific reason that they are reporters. The International Federation of Journalists has logged at least 240 journalists and media workers killed in the war. This is the deadliest conflict for journalists ever in history according to United Nations. The reason we talk about this should be obvious. Targeting journalists is a war crime. Israel's banned international media from entering Gaza independently. This day one of the war and that ban remains in place. It's obvious in the interests of those accused of war crimes to obscure information about those crimes in order to cover them up. And the so-called dossier of evidence unveiled this weekend by the IDF and their so-called press files looks like a very weak attempt at doing exactly that. Much of the so-called evidence provided looks like this. ABC, BBC and Le Mans journalists, it says, words for Hamas based on intelligence sources. No further information, no admission that those sources are Israeli sources, no real evidence at all. Just take our word for it. Well, the fact is that Hamas was in charge of Gaza. Alongside its militant wing is a boring bureaucracy which paid pensions, rent hospitals, and ever saw pretty much every government job. On that basis, many thousands of people were linked to Hamas, including journalists, and some of them were probably militants too. We don't really know. And the reason we don't know is the same reason the international media is relied on local gas and journalists to get footage and information out. Israel refuses to let them in. What do I mean as many as some? Founders of Teo, who featured in the IDF video alongside me. And so the IDF, many suggested they'd have somebody here to explain their revelations on the show today and to debate this with you. But as you can see from our empty chair, it turned out nobody the entire organization ended up being available, which is a great shame. But you are, and so we won't be empty chairing you because you're sitting in yours. What was your reaction when you first saw this video from the IDF? I mean, I chuckled because this is the IDF, which is very good at bragging about what's going to come and then it always turns out not to be what they want it to be. So I'm glad you empty chaired them because they were talking a big game peers on Twitter. They were tweeting at me and you. They were quote tweeting. They were in my reply saying, here's the evidence. And now we're here. I want to test that evidence. I've gone through the files as have you. And they don't want to come defend their reporting. Let's just be very clear. The committee to protect journalists, as you just mentioned, has a list of 191 journalists in Gaza who were killed by Israel, 191. That is more than double the number killed in Afghanistan, more than triple the number killed in Vietnam. It is the deadliest conflict, as you mentioned a moment ago, according to the CPJ. The Israelis have come along and said, hey, we have 170 militants that people called reporters. Here's our list. They published it. We've gone through it. You've gone through it. My good friend, Mohammed Shahada, Palestinian journalists went through every single entry. And he points out that 59 entries in that list, more than one in three are people where there's no evidence often at all. You just mentioned Rojdi Siraj, Mustafa Theray is another person. They just say, multiple intelligent sources. No, we don't trust you. You have a history of lying. They then, you know, in some entries, peers, they don't have any evidence at all. They don't even say intelligent sources. Can I show you one? I printed one out just to show your viewers how ludicrous this is. This is from the IDF website. Man named Hassan Marzook Hassan Samur. It says, "Position held, military operative in Hamas." That's it. No evidence, not even a mention of intelligence. They just want you to take their say so. The same Israeli military that killed Shireen Abu Aqli in 2022 and said, "We didn't do it." And then they said, "Okay, we did do it." In 2023, they said, "Beheaded babies." Then they said, "Okay, there are no Beheaded babies." In 2024, they shot at Hindrajab. And they said, "We didn't do that." And then they said, "Okay, we did do that." In 2025, they lied about killing 15 paramedics in Gaza. This is a military that constantly lies, gets caught lying. And now they've put out a report with 170 people, many of whom don't even appear on the CPJ list. It's total bullshit from a lying military. And they know it's bullshit 'cause they didn't come here to defend their numbers. You know, it's interesting. So, let you say, the CPJ lists 190 deaths there. About 78 people appear on both the Israeli IDF list and the CPJ list. I mean, they disagree about whether those people were journalists or militants. But for the most part, the two lists don't actually overlap. So there are a large number of people who are not categorized as terrorists by the IDF, it seems, who were categorized as journalists by the CPJ. So it's all, even by their own yardstick, very confusing. I mean, look, I'm not naïve enough. It's straw men, it's straw men. Yeah, look, I'm not naïve enough to think that there were no people operating potentially as press, media, journalists who were potentially a mass terrorist operating disguise. I'm not naïve. I'm sure that probably happened. What I seriously question, according to all the independent reports, is how many that was. And what the IDF are trying to do with this video they put out, is they're trying to smear anybody who suggests a large number of journalists were killed for being journalists because that is a war crime. And I, like you, we've been through this very carefully, the evidence is either non-existent or extremely flimsy about a large number of these people. And ultimately, if you conflate everybody employed by the Hamas government as a militant terrorist, you are showing either a gross misunderstanding of what was happening there, or you're simply hoping no one's going to notice the difference. Because the truth is, they were elected as a government, and a lot of people worked for the Hamas government who were not terrorists. A lot, aside themselves with Hamas, and our militant terrorists. And a lot of them had nothing to do with Hamas, as we've seen in this list. As you mentioned, there are 49 cases, according to Mohammed Shahado, who looked at this, where they publish obituries from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic jihadites, see, see, even Hamas say these guys worked for them. And guess what, peers? The vast majority of those 49 cases don't appear on the committee to protect journalists list. It's a complete straw man. Listed to this one example. There's a guy called Abdullah Darwish, who worked for Hamas's Al-Aqsa TV. And the Israelis say he took part in October 7th, and they have him on their list of 170. Guess what? He's never been listed as a journalist by the committee to protect journalists. So it's complete straw manning. And by the way, of course, there were people who were linked to Hamas. CPJ has actually removed 22 people from their list. They've already done the due diligence. It's the Israelis who want you to believe that all 200 were Hamas militants, which is bullshit. It's great, and they don't offer any evidence for that. And here's another important point about international law. Even if you are a propagandist, let's say you are a Hamas photographer, for some Hamas organization, and you're taking pictures that make Hamas look good. You cannot be killed under international law. Just being a propagandist is not a good enough reason to murder someone. You have to be engaged in hostilities. You have to be engaged in combat. You have to be actually in action. So for example, Hassan Shabbat, 23 years old journalist, a guy I knew murdered by Israel. They say he's a Hamas operative. He was a sniper for Hamas. They cite a document which shows that he went through a Hamas training camp in 2019. When he was 17 years old, apparently, the fact that when you were 17, you went through a training camp, does not mean you can be murdered in 2024. That's not how international law works. Yeah, and the other thing I have a point, there's obviously this ridiculous irony here, which is that this is all information being put into the public domain by the IDF, talking about how many journalists or otherwise they have killed, and why they've done it, and why their explanation is they're all terrorists. Of course, the easiest way to establish the veracity of this would be for the IDF and the Israeli government to lift its ongoing ban on all international media operating freely in Gaza, despite the fact there's now been a ceasefire for most of his years. So, supposedly, there is a ceasefire. There can be no safety or security reason, as they keep saying. Why journalists shouldn't be allowed to operate there. Even Jonathan Conric is one of my guests on the panel today, has regularly sided with me about how ridiculous it is that journalists aren't allowed in. If the IDF want people to understand what's actually happened in Gaza, and to establish, once and for all, whether they have, indeed, as they keep saying, being the most moral army in the world, that does sit very easily with the ongoing ban on any journalist who might be able to report that or establish that beyond doubt or investigate any of these stories or investigate their claims about the journalists. If they keep banning them, how can they get to the bottom of it? We're supposed to just believe what the IDF put in the public domain. And it's not, you know, it's not, I don't know, I don't know, I'm a sight random country. It's not the Belgian military or the Australian military, it's the Israeli military, which has been caught lying multiple times. We made a documentary as a tale appears, as you know, called Who Killed Shireen, it's an award-winning documentary. We investigated the Israeli soldier, the sniper who killed Shireen Abel-Akley, the Palestinian-American journalist in the West Bank in 2022. This is before October the 7th. They've been killing journalists well before October the 7th, and then lying about it. And when they killed Shireen, they said Palestinian gunmen killed her. She got caught in crossfire. They lied. They got caught. We now know it was an Israeli soldier. We know his name. We know everything about that case. But they lied. And as you say, and you rightly have been saying this on your show for months, for years now, why not let? If you don't trust Palestinian journalists, if they're all Hamas, why aren't you letting in? CNN, the BBC, whoever you like, because they've got something to hide. They don't want people to see evidence of their war crimes. And I would point this out as well, peers. They don't just kill journalists, and then lie about it. They put out a report saying, we would never kill journalists. And then on Twitter, when they put the report out, their former spokesman, a man I've debated, a man you've had on your show, Alon Levy, first he says, they've put me in their crosshairs. And then he says, "Pears Morgan can come to Gaza. I don't know if he's going to get out." Like, they use threatening mafia language, while they pretend to be. I mean, he was the clown. He was the clown that was deemed too extreme, even for this Netanyahu administration that got really reduced duties. So I don't think we should take anything. He says too seriously. But the casual way he was tossing out his threats on social media was quite revealing, I thought. Many, you're going to stay with us, we're bringing the rest of the panel now. Israeli broadcaster Amit Siegel, the Palestinian-American journalist and commentator Omar Bader, and Jonathan Conricca, Senior Fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, and of course, the former IDS spokesman. Jonathan, welcome back to UnSense. Let me start with you, because, like I said, you have always agreed with me that it is wrong that international journalists are not being allowed into Gaza to operate freely and do their jobs. I would say massively, more so, given the supposed to be a ceasefire. But, you know, media alluded to a number of occasions in which the IDF have made statements that were later turned out to be untrue about the deaths of including journalists, but also young children. And why should we just believe the IDF, when they say in this supposed damning dossier that all these people were Hamas terrorists, when the evidence provided is so incredibly flimsy, and when there is no opportunity for independent international journalists to get in and verify any of this. Shalom, peers, and hello, everyone. - You know, I was watching you and Mechdi in that bromance you have, you know, it's like the blind helping the deaf. Really, I thought that you would take this opportunity and at least look into the information and say, hold on. I've been touting this line now for a long time and I've been attacking Israel. And I've been, say, basing what I say, based on a lot of questionable sources. At least I could, you know, pause for a second, look it over and give it at least the benefit of the doubt. And what you've done is very selective. And I'll want to point out a few things if I may uninterrupted. One would be that even Hamas and the Islamic Jihad and another small organization called the Resistance Committees, they have issued obituaries themselves of 71 out of the 170 terrorists on the name, have been claimed by Hamas and Islamic Jihad. And yes, I agree. I've gone through, I've sifted through the names. I've looked at the committee to protect journalists and other lists. And I agree that there are not 100%, they're not identical. And that is an issue that is what needs to deal with. But I will say-- Well, that's significantly different to be clear. There are significant numbers of people. The majority of the obelists is not all that. There are still 71 terrorists. And this is where I really expected you to be above what you've currently displayed. And that is to say, you know what? I've been saying that Israel has killed when Hamas and Islamic Jihad say in themselves that 71 out of 190 people that have been claimed in various sources-- That's false, it's not 171 out of 190. Yes, it is 171, it is 171 out of 190. The 190 is not the same as the 170. But it's not the same list, Jonathan. It's a totally different list. You're lying. I've been through it, so don't lie to people. Mehdi, if you want to start interrupting already, that's a new low even for you. If you lie, I'll fact check you. Peace, Calabria. We can't say fact, actually anybody. You can't say fact, really false statements. Well, it's false. It's false. It's not 171 out of 190. And who doesn't lie, Mehdi? You're the snubberman for a genocide military better. You're a spokesman for a military that's indicted at the IPC. I know them better than you do. And you are no one to lecture. No, you don't. Could you just lie it? Not about propaganda. Let me just stay-- All right, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me just, let me just, wait a minute, let me just state, let me just state, let me just state again, let me just state again, let me just be clear, Jonathan, so the viewers, viewers may be confused now. So let me just remind everybody what we know as a fact. The committee to protect journalists lists 190 deaths of Palestinian reporters and media workers that is documented during the war, right? Out of which they've already witnessed, let me finish. Let me finish, let me finish, let me finish, about 78 people appear on both the IDF list and the CPJ list, meaning they disagree, whether those people were journalists or militants, but the majority, the majority do not appear on the IDF list. So when you try and conflate the two lists, it is deliberately misleading people. No, what I'm saying is very clear that I expect, it is, I'm not saying that the numbers that the IDF are provided are perfect. I'm saying that this should at least have caused serious people who treat themselves and want to be accredited as serious journalists to say there are 71 names of journalists that are on various lists. It isn't only that it is, but they're not journalists, they're on various lists. And we're, 71 names and no one called them themselves. Why you not understand this? What I can say, what I can say, what I can say, what I can say is that the CPJ removed 19 men from its own list. When his own further investigations found they were combatants. No, that's not their own, no, hang on, if you, if you want to be factual, CPJ were dragged into taking names off their list after civilians in the internet, the all kinds of researchers exposed and they did it twice. First, they took down eggs and then they took down almost, I think it was 23. They've actually taken, they've actually taken 27 people off their original list, right? So, they have been doing their utmost to try and get to material, but again, Jonathan, look, there will obviously be more. I've already conceded to the start of all this, but I'm not naive enough to not think that some people were pretending to be journalists or using media badges or whatever, who were Hamas terrorists, I'm sure that was the case. The question is how many and how many genuine journalists have been brutally killed, of which it seems to be still a lot of people, a lot of journalists. Let's remind that I want to say. So, to that piece, that's a very important point and I agree with you 100%, a journalist who is only a journalist should never ever be targeted and anybody in a combat zone should make real efforts to keep those persons safe, and I know that the IDF does that. I also know that the IDF does great efforts in order to kill terrorists, and there's not much. 190 people that are on the list that the IDF disclosed were first and foremost. It's also true. It is also true that the IDF have killed over 75,000 people in Gaza in response to terror. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. You based that on Hamas numbers. You know that when you say Israel is already admitted, you've already conceded. Israel's government has conceded that Gaza Health Ministry numbers are broadly accurate. So why are you just beating your own government's position on this? Listen, Piers. If you take Hamas numbers and you include all of them in the 50,000 people, listen, Piers, let's be serious. You say that those numbers are actually-- He's really government's conceded. They have no data. The Gaza Health Ministry numbers are broadly accurate. No, that was an off-the-cuff statement a long time ago by someone who I don't know how connected he was to fact. But the fact of the number-- I'll take it to a gulag, so-- Piers, you struggle with the numbers, with the propaganda. And others, other serious analysts have looked into the numbers that Hamas have been sharing. And the first-- The first of them is say more than 1,000. There are many of them, Jonathan. There are obvious, very clear statements is that all of those liars, including Mehdi, have been parroting this number. How many have been killed? Genocide. It doesn't-- Oh, hang on, let's be clear. Hamas, Jonathan, if the Gaza Health Ministry numbers are wrong, how many people have been killed? Yeah. So that's a good question. And I know you love asking it. And I know you've asked several Israelis about it. And here's the numbers that I know, based on the information that I've been able to corroborate from Israeli sources, from Hamas sources, from open source intel. And it is the follows. The idea of assessing information from Hamas sources. You do trust them after all. Yeah, that's amazing. When they issue obituaries-- You've asked your friends a bit of a-- Yes, a bit of a-- Yeah, when they issue obituaries, and when they play-- You said you spoke into your legal resources. Who are these people? When-- Are you a mass cheaser? Yes. When they issue obituaries, and when they pay stipends to a widow, I sure as-- I will definitely take that into account. And when Hamas holds a military funeral from someone, who otherwise-- What's the number of reasons-- Don't fill up us into your account. What's the number? No, not even. According to you, then, Jonathan, how many people have been killed in Gaza since the war started? Right. So the number of uninvolved people that probably were not combatants, based on those different sources of information, the cooperation of the different sources, according to my understanding, is around 38 or 39,000 people. That is what I understand, based on insufficient-- And how many terrorists? Based on-- and at least 25,000 terrorists, where the IDF knows with a high level of certainty, not 100%, because no military ever-- So your figure is about 63,000, is that right, in total? Roughly. Okay. So you're saying it's 12,000 there? 12,000 there. So less than the official. And you have-- Yes. Gaza, help a few of you. You're also not factoring in natural deaths. And you're not factoring in deaths caused by-- I'm not-- Okay, but let's take your figure. Yeah. All right, Jonathan. Jonathan, I hate you. Let's take your figure. 38,000 civilians, then, have been killed. Yes. Okay. And how many civilians-- How many civilians were killed on October 7th? Almost 1,300, but they think-- Well, they weren't all civilians, really. That's a lie. That's a lie. Stop lying, Jonathan. Here's-- Yeah. I think you're making a totally irrelevant comparison. I'm going to make a direct comparison. No, we can do that. Hang on. I'm just going to make one comparison. And England. I'm going to make one comparison, Jonathan, and be finished. Yeah. Based on your own figures, you say 38,000 civilians have been killed. It has been reported that of the 1,200 who were killed on October 7th, 400 were military, and 800 were civilians. So there is now currently, by your numbers, 38,000 people-- civilians in Gaza have been killed in response to the murder of 800 people. That is why many people view the IDF response as being disproportionate, even if we take your-- Absolutely. Even nonsense. Of course. You know what I'd say? You know what I'd say, Jonathan? Because 40 times as many civilians. Well, it appears there's a very basic reason. Where was the IDF fighting? Where was Hamas hiding underneath? And who were they using as their human shields? Well, that's not what we're talking about. I want to bring in the other guess. What I would also point out, the given 75% of Gaza has been leveled to the ground. How you can be certain how many civilians died under the rubble is completely beyond me. But anyway, let me bring in the others. Oh, my batter. Look, whether you say it, 75,000, 68,000, whatever, whether we say it's X number of journalists or this number of journalists, the truth is, all the independent studies here have said and concluded that there have been more journalists killed, actual journalists, not terrorists have been killed in Gaza since the start of this war than in any modern conflict. And as a journalist, I find that horrific. And if the IDF want to try and justify each one of those deaths as being, "Wow, they were Hamas, weren't they?" My answer is very straightforward, right? Maybe you're right. Let's take-- let's assume for a moment you're right. Then let independent journalists seem to do their job and verify this. Until you do, I'm not going to believe it. You know, peers, Jonathan opened up his statement by saying you should give the benefit of the doubt to the claims that are presented by the Israeli military. Well, I'm sorry, that's not how the world works. When you are proven to have lied over and over and over again and you keep getting caught, you lose the benefit of the doubt. You no longer can be trusted and given the benefit of the doubt. They have killed an American citizen who is a journalist in the West Bank, Shireen Abok, live before October 7th, and lied about it. They were caught in South Lebanon photoshopping using AI to fake an image of a journalist that they murdered to put military fatigues on them. And Mehdi went over the entire list of the endless instances in which they have been caught lying after murdering civilians and trying to cover it up. You are dealing with people who have absolutely no regard for the truth whatsoever and who will say absolutely anything to either cover for or distract from the campaign of mass murder and mass torture and ethnic cleansing that they're imposing on Palestinians, not just in Gaza peers, but in the West Bank as well. And now they come on your show and they all feign, you know, they will agree with you when you say, "Why don't you let international journalists in?" And they'll say, "Yeah, yeah, we agree Israel should let them in." But what they're missing here is that they're pretending that this is some kind of like misjudgment by Israel. But in fact, not letting international journalists into Gaza is exactly the same reason they're mass murdering journalists who are inside Gaza already. This is all part of a continuous campaign in which they are trying to block out the truth of the crimes that they are committing. They want to intimidate anybody who is reporting on the crimes that they are committing that are absolutely unspeakable destroying the civilian population in Gaza. That is what they're doing and that's why they come here and they say, "Oh, give us the benefit of the doubt and we agree with you and whatever." But it's all just a sham. They are trying to cover up for genocide, pure and simple. Okay. I mean, Sigel, thank you for your patience and welcome to Uncensored. The first time we've had you on, you were reported for IDF radio in 2000. You're an Israeli broadcast, you're very well known over there. As a journalist, do you not feel uncomfortable that despite many months of a so-called ceasefire, the Israeli government continues to ban international journalists from operating freely in Gaza? So, first of all, thanks to you for having me. First of all, I'm so relieved to find the media's safe and sound. The only thing quieter than Antarctica and the winter in the last few days was the media's Twitter account after the plane hijacking by a Muslim terrorist. So, thanks God, the media is okay. As for your question, I think it cuts both ways because if you claim that only journalists, active journalists were killed, were murdered by the IDF, the journalists that speak truth to power, journalists that didn't hesitate to attack Hamas. So, why are you so obsessed with opening the Gaza Strip for other journalists? Those are journalists that walked for CNN, for BBC, for Sky News. And according to your argument, they were journalists, not terrorists. So, if the Gaza Strip is wide open. And I've said very clearly. I've said very clearly. I've said very clearly international journalists. I'm not talking about Palestinian journalists operating in Gaza, over which there is clearly a dispute about the number who will legitimate journalists and the number who are not. I'm talking about the ongoing ban unprecedented, actually, of the Israeli government banning international journalists from operating freely in Gaza. And by the way, Jonathan Conricus has agreed with me on this point since pretty much the start of the war. And I simply said to you, as an Israeli journalist, whatever your views about any of this, how can you be comfortable with such a grotesque ongoing suppression of free press to get to the bottom of what has been happening there? Well, I'm not a spokesperson for the Israeli government and you can refer to their question. But what is your opinion? My view is that the Gaza Strip could have been open earlier. But to be honest, when I hear this discussion, I don't think anything would change in the distorted perception, according to which Israel can do no right and Hamas can do no wrong. You have just described for the last few minutes how Israel lied and Israel cannot enjoy the benefit of the doubt. But who can enjoy the benefit of the doubt? Of course, Hamas. Now I have to explain something which is crucial. There is no such thing as human rights organizations who enjoy the benefit of the doubt. Let me finish. Thank you so much. There is no such thing as the Ministry of Health in Gaza, it's Hamas. There is no such thing as journalists in Gaza as a whole, because they all work for Hamas. It's like expecting to have a free coverage in North Korea, by the way, even worse than this, because if you do not report exactly what they ask, you'll find yourself. What did you report when you were working for IDF radio out of interest? Do you really compare it to the more critical of IDF when you were writing it? Are you writing it right here? Of course, it's talking about pop stars. Yes, it works. Yes, it works. I have what you're doing. I don't want to hear that. Pius, what you're doing, it really tells me, sorry, if I'm insulting, but how ignorant you are, and how you're trying to make, what I'm sorry, you're interrupting, I'm sorry, you're interrupting, amaged, because I think you're big. No, it's okay. Why don't you let amaged, I'm afraid of something. It's amazing to make that, don't interrupt, Jonathan, you're big on interest, Jonathan, you're interrupting me. Why, while Pius was busy interrupting me, so please don't take his role. Now, I want to answer your question. If you would be familiar with the Israeli media landscape, you would have known that one of the most critical news outlets towards the government, and especially the Netanyahu government, is the IDF radio station. That's the reason, by the way, why the coalition wanted to legislate against it being operating under the IDF, so the answer is yes, and another answer is that you cannot compare the IDF in a democratic country, the IDF radio, to the fundamentalist, terrorist, clonetic dictatorship of Hamas in the Gaza Strip. Now, I want to explain something really crucial that you might, you might not aware of. There was a WhatsApp group in which journalists asked for permission for Hamas to publish things. They got orders. So, any idea to depict journalists in Gaza is if they speak truth to power, the power is Hamas, it's Hamas, of course, is ridiculous. It doesn't go any then with the facts on the ground. And you cannot compare, you cannot compare this. Now, as I think, that's the reason why at the end of the day, you fail to understand that when you work for Hamas, you can't be both journalist and a fighter or combatant or terrorist in Hamas. And excuse you gave them. This is an absurd double standard. Just one second. The Israeli military is a terrorist organization, and Israel is not a democratic society, is it a genocide or a part of Israel? It is not a democratic society. And by the way, it is the Israeli, for the record, it is the Israeli press specifically. 972 is an Israeli outlet that reported on the fact that 83% of the casualties in Gaza are civilians. Just a second. Just a second. Just a second. So this is Israel's reporting that you are covering. I heard you. I heard you. So you said at the very same sentence that Israel is a dictatorship in which there is no freedom of the press. And then you quoted 972, which is an Israeli. Just a second. You're not listening. I'm listening. I love listening to my mom. For very, very long for your lives. Now I'll explain. In Israel, unlike in dictatorships, people can report whatever they want, because it's a free country, unlike Hamas in which in, in, in, in, in Gaza, in which if you report, you're not listening to me. Hamas doesn't lie. I did not use the word dictatorship. But, but I said apartheid regime. It's a democracy for Jewish Israelis and a dictatorship for Palestinians. That's very, very, very, very difficult. There are a room that I ask to me and Arabs living in Israel as people about to pass. Can I respond to me and Arab people? Yeah. The second, the second class it is. Yeah. If you all told them on my channel, can I, can I come in? I mean, wait a minute. Come back in, just one, just one second. In Israel, that you condemn so much in my, on my channel, there are Muslims, journalists who can report whatever they want. In Israel, unlike in Gaza, had a Muslim correspondent from Israel, who reported from Gaza, he would have been dead already. He would have been killed by Hamas. In a way, in a way, in a way, you're basically endorsing what I'm saying, because if you believe that all the journalists in Gaza are compromised, even more reason. Exactly. Even more reason to allow independent international journalists in to do their job, right? You would agree. But you agree. But why aren't the journalists being allowed in? I accept. I accept. What possible reason could there be the banning? You're in the world of journalists. I'll give you, I'll give you, from a more so, I'm not wrong. I'll give you my explanation. Had Israel wanted to prevent the world from knowing about the genocidal acts of Israeli and Gaza in the Gaza street. By the way, the only genocide in the world's history in which the population grows rather than declines. But had he wanted, why wouldn't he, he shut down the, why wouldn't have he shut down the internet in Gaza? It's the easiest thing to do. If we're so genocide, actually, no, I mean, the point is, the point is, the point is, the easiest, I mean, the easiest thing to do, I promise you, is just let the journalist in, given there's now a so-called C5, there's just no, I'm not aware of all the risk and all the security, safety risks, whatever, that will be on the networks and the organisations who send their journalists in, as it is in every war zone in the world. To me, to me, this is a lot of iron. It's a lot of iron. It's a lot of iron. Hang on, hang on. All right, let me finish my point. All right, can I come in? You can, but just to make my point, to finish it, the longer the bang goes on, the more convinced I become that the IDF and the Israeli government has something to hide. The easiest way for them to prove they have nothing to hide is lift the bang. And the longer they don't do it, even Jonathan has agreed with me about this. You remember that? No, it might be a legitimate reason for it. To do it. I'm not freaking speak. All right, thank you. A lot's been said, the most patient I've ever been in my life. A lot's been said by Jonathan and Amit there. Jonathan talked about two million Arabs in Israel. We've just seen Arab leaders being banned from running for the kineset right now. So maybe that's not a card they want to point. I'm actually the opposite. I'm it. I'm it. I'm it. Seagal just said that you can say whatever Amit. I'm it. You can say whatever you want. It is. It's all running. I'm someone trying to ban. Oh, no, they're going to let me speak. I'm it. Seagal. You are interrupting. Jonathan, you spoke for like twenty minutes. You say, hey, you you're clear. You're a hypocrite. Jonathan, you're an interrupt. Jonathan, you're a as usual. You're a liar and a hypocrite. You're interrupting him. As usual. You're running. You're interrupting everyone on YouTube. That information. Every one of YouTube rewind. And fairytale. Jonathan's talking about speaking is really important because hearing him speak is devastating. No, no, he complained about he complained about being interrupted. We just saw him interrupt me as soon as I spoke. Amit Seagal said you can say whatever you want in Israel. Number one, not true. The military sensor prevents many stories. He knows this. He's a journalist. Don't lie and say you can say what a man is. There's a military sensor. Maddie, I have a scoop for you. If you support Teo in the United States or from or of America or in the United Kingdom, that's not what the military sensor does. The military sensor. You will be imprisoned. You'll be imprisoned. So don't nice. Don't nice try. The military sensor. The military sensor in Israel. I know you support. I know it's a military sensor. That's why you have is right. That's why you haven't been there. The attack. Am I going to get a job and to speak in this first show? I do think you should let Maddie finish his point. Otherwise all the complaints are all right. 25 men speak on this panel. Peers, this is what I don't do panels on your show. I waited 25 minutes to speak. Now these two Israelis are not letting me speak. Amit Seagal mocked my safety for 20 minutes. Yeah, my safety. My safety. My safety for you. Grant Sand is for us now. Oh, my fuck. Peers, am I going to get to speak? You're going to moderate or what's the point? Yes. Should we just speak? And I think Jonathan and Amit, you should abide by your own please. And don't interrupt him. Try for a minute. Just do that. Well, let me interrupt all your lives. Not to a lie. Jonathan, don't give it a try. Even if you don't want to be interrupted. It's very great for me. I know it's a challenge for you. But at least, you know, well, it's my challenge for you, Jonathan. Don't interrupt him. You'll be on interruptions and you keep doing it yourself. Let him finish his point. When you live in an apartheid regime, it's hard to hear Arabs or Muslim speak. It's very uncomfortable. Let's finish his point. They are. I just want to make some factual points. Number one, there's a military censor in Israel. You can't say whatever you want. Number two, Amit Seagal said you can say whatever you want, but then you can ban Arab politicians if they exercise their free speech. And here's what's really interesting. They keep going about numbers of terrorists killed. Well, I watched the film Nazar, which hasn't come up in this conversation. And you hear Israeli soldiers saying, and I quote, and Israeli soldiers says we killed 140 unarmed people in Gaza, and we called every single one of them a terrorist. That is the truth that they don't want said on international media, which is the people they kill and call terrorists were not terrorists in many, many cases. In some cases, sure. But in many cases, there's a free fire zone. It's what's called a annihilation zone in the film Nazar by Israeli soldiers who say we were allowed to kill anyone. We hacked the phone of a 12-year-old girl, then we killed her. We killed a boy with a drone because he crossed an invisible line. And then we left his body for dogs to eat. This is what Israeli soldiers, Jonathan's former colleagues say. And that's for Amit working at IDF radio. My criticism is not that he wasn't critical. I'm sure he was critical of the government. My point is that when Amit worked to IDF radio, if Hamas had killed him, I would have condemned Hamas for killing him, because you can't kill journalists, even if they're working as propagandists. I'm not sure. - He won't kill anyone. - First of all, I don't talk to killing of civilians. You do. I haven't finished my point. I'll let you come back here when I finish. No, no, no, I'm finishing my point. My point is that I don't support killing you when you're in IDF propaganda. There's no free speech in Israel that stop pretending. And Jonathan talks about the killing of terrorists, his numbers that he gets from his sources. He doesn't want to engage with the fact that Israelis are saying we kill people and call them terrorists. Last point, Jonathan said he went through the files. Here it is. Here's Hassan, Mazuk, Sumar. It says he's a Hamas operative, Jonathan. Can you tell us where's the evidence for that? 'Cause this is all the IDF provided. I challenge you today. Give me the evidence that this is based on. 'Cause the IDF didn't give it. - Jonathan, be happy to. - Adel, yeah, I'd be happy to. And you know, it's your level of hypocrisy. It's amazing. And I think you wouldn't have shared a tear over Amit. Had he been targeted by some of the terrorists? Where's the evidence in this file that you write about? Mr. Mehdi-- - Keep filibuster. - Yeah, I will do so in my own time. And just like you haven't shared a tear for Israeli civilians murdered by Hamas, by the way, we're commemorating-- - You like, just yesterday since-- - Just yesterday, I posted about Israeli civilians. You liar? Just yesterday, you liar, I posted about Israeli civilians. You've never posted about Palestinians' feelings. 'Cause you probably killed them. When you were in the IDF. You probably had to kill civilians. You were in the IDF. Adel, I'm the only person, perhaps, who represented a military and who may be fought for his country. - A military that lied as well. - When they killed people, whereas you-- - I don't know, whatsoever. - What do you stand for? - I don't know what you stand for. - Well, actually, I think I believe I know what-- - Keep filibuster. - We'll leave that for-- - Keep filibuster in Java. - I don't know if you mentioned that the IDF did. - Many new mustn't interrupt. - Here's Jonathan Space, without being interrupted. - That would be nice. And especially after your-- the dialogue of almost half an hour in the beginning and then you cry about not getting airtime FD. That's not typical-- - That's not my fault the IDF didn't show up. That's not my fault you'll felt the fault of the IDF. - The only reason-- - The only reason, Jonathan, to be clear that Medi was on his own at the start, is he was supposed to be on with a member of the IDF. The IDF said all day that we're gonna put somebody up. And in the end, the IDF didn't show up. I wonder why that is. - That's too bad. - Right, so they get-- - The IDF don't know why they have no-- - They've got more airtime because the IDF bottled it. - Well, I think he got more airtime because-- - Where's the evidence? - You've gone to get across, it appears. That's what you want to buy. - Did the IDF-- - You have been invited. - The IDF is not gonna come on and defend what they said about me and Medi and the others. They said they were going to put somebody up and then they didn't. Viewers control their own conclusions. But to then accuse us of being biased towards Medi when the IDF don't show up and bail is actually inaccurate. - If I were to be at the base between the two of them. - If I had been the spokesperson, I would have gladly come on and show you. - I don't just be that you always do, come on. Like, credit you for it. - Yeah, but let's not-- - Let's not be here, let's not-- - I'll tell you the question. - Let me answer the question. Let me answer the question. So there are various sources of information and what the IDF did when they compiled this list, which I think probably should have been done better and they probably should have taken the direct list of CPJ and then cross checked each and every name. And maybe they will still do that. And maybe they'll get more information. And what I tweeted about was that this is an initial list. And just like the CPJ, first were forced to take off seven and then an additional 21. And now they will be forced to take off an additional 70 or 50 or 30 or how many they will ever seem-- - Where's the evidence? - Yes, they will, they will. And they will eventually-- - I'm waiting for all the names. I'm waiting, just-- - Everyone's walking from the answer to the question. - Where's the evidence? - The Hassan-- - Hassan Samoa. - Is a how about some-- - I don't know any evidence. - And you keep on interrupting. - And I'm explaining it in your-- - And you keep on answering the question. - And I'll explain some of the sources of the information that the IDF used. One is open source intel, obituaries, and information that is out there, mostly from Hamas and Islamic Dihad. Two is other policies-- - But that doesn't apply to this guy. - Really? - Nice try. I'm giving you an example of a guy who doesn't have an obit. - For the first time-- - There's nothing mentioned. - Not the first time mentioned. - No intel source is nothing. - And he's saying something that is correct, Merti. For the first time, you say something that is fact-checked and correct. And the reason that the IDF hasn't disclosed all of the sources about all of the terrorists masquerading as press in the 190 is that in about 70 of them, the sources of information are still confidential. Just like we don't, the IDF doesn't say what the source is when they target a Hamas terrorist and they don't say-- - So it's trolling me, bro. - Trust me. - No. - I think the thing-- - Trust me, bro. - Trust me, bro. - To me, Jonathan. - Trust me, bro. - We kill Shereen Ablakli. - The more we lie, the more we think that he'll trust me, bro. - We're not lying, guys. The most interesting-- - Let me tell you this. - The most interesting admission I've heard from you, Jonathan. Probably in the entire time you've been on this show, which is many times, is that you talking about you spoke to your Hamas sources. Who are these people that you're hanging out with? - Yes, I said, I looked at Hamas' information. - No, you said you spoke to your Hamas sources. - I could play you a type of one. - It was from Hamas, information from Hamas, not a person's source, but sources from Hamas, information that was source from Hamas. - So when you said you spoke to Hamas sources, you didn't mean you spoke to Hamas. - From the official telegram channel of Hamas, where they issue their obituary, where they also informed the people. - So when you said you spoke to Hamas sources, you didn't mean that. - Who they're paying stipends to? - You didn't mean it. - Hamas sources is Hamas spokespeople, and it is Hamas officers. So just to be clear, when you said you spoke, okay, but when you said you'd spoken to Hamas sources, you're now retracting that statement. - No, I didn't say I'm speaking to Hamas sources. I said, I'm using Hamas sources as in their obituaries, as in the stipends that they pay to widows, which I, by the way, think is an excellent, excellent source of information to really verify who the true person is. - Okay, I want to, I want to, I want to, I want to, I think you're running a certain amount of time there. - I'm going to have to call you the same thing. - I do want to ask Jonathan, - One quick question, then clear about that. - I want to ask the whole panel about this hijacking, but I'll start with you, Jonathan, because the most extraordinary about this is that, the Moss ad has a reputation as the finest intelligence operation in the world. By common concept, it's able to blow up 3,000 Hezbollah pages in one moment. It's able to track traffic lights, to kill the Ayatollah of Iran, and so on. And yet, it didn't know anything about October the 7th. Despite Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of the country, get being warned by several leaders in the run up to October 7th, that a major Hamas operation was going to be happening. And now we have this extraordinary situation where an Amani pilot who had been banned by his own country from flying planes, apparently is able to fly this plane and very, very nearly crash it into Benirin Airport. And again, I'm just wondering, how on earth is this guy who's being described as a lone wolf extremist? How on earth has he got through any kind of vetting? What is happening to Israeli intelligence? - Yeah, so there's a very sad, relatively simple answer. The responsibility for Gaza has nothing to do with Mossad, that is entirely ISA, Shabbak. And most of the security as in screening, physical security, baggage security, and in-air security for incoming flights, whether they are Israeli or some of the screening for foreign flights coming into Israel, also lies with the ISA and doesn't lie with Mossad. Mossad has a certain responsibility for screening, and they definitely, in my opinion, so far as far as we understand now, dropped the ball as did the Ministry of Transport, and as did the ISA. The blame here, I think, has a lot of fathers and parents, and I think a lot of heads should be rolling in Israeli defense for the fact that a radical Islamist, someone who has pretty easy, we could see, in hindsight, that he was another Islamist radical. He wanted to use violence in order to kill innocent civilians, like so many other radical Muslims around the world. Not all, Mehdi, but many radical Muslims around the world who make up just about a billion and a half or so people. And the fact that he wasn't flagged is a huge oversight. Now, to go from there and to say conspiracy and all the usual nonsense, the only surprise I have is that it took the usual suspects in the symphony of Israel-glamrs and conspiracy theorists. It took them quite a long time to come up with the theory. Well, I'm not, obviously, I'm not subscribing to any of those conspiracy theorists. I'm, unfortunately, me now live in an age. I know, Ma'am, I'll bring you in here. We live in an age where the moment anything now happens, social media lights up with conspiracy theorists. You just spin absolute clap trap about what may have happened. It's very damaging, I think, to society. A lot of people believe this crap. You know, I prefer proper legitimate reporting, which is ironically, or because why I want journalists to operate freely in Gaza, actually, because I prefer top world-class, highly-trained, independent journalists to operate to get to the truth of these things. But it's increasingly clear that this Amani National, Ma'am Al Hamami, was a lone wolf extremist who wounded the Indian captain with the emergency crash acts. Incredibly, the captain managed to, despite his serious injuries, managed to release the door, which is obviously since 9/11 all these doors are in practice. unless the captain does that, and others were able to get in. And even more incredibly, the first one through is a plumber, an Israeli plumber with zero flying experience, who'd learn anything about planes from watching YouTube shows about planes and crashes and flying, which is incredible, but appears to be what happened. And then there were obviously reserved pilot and co-pilot on board who then were able to take charge. Once he had actually wrestled the plane back into control. So that guy is an absolute hero, the captain is an absolute hero. But the real scandal here, as Jonathan has conceded, is this extraordinary failure of intelligence, where you've got a guy banned by his own country from flying planes. But there he's able to fly on this route multiple, multiple times. And it actually been to Israel, according to one report, a few days before he attempted to crash his aircraft. I mean, this is just unbelievable to me. It appears to be coming Israel's way. Yeah, part of the distrust that you see in why social media lights up with conspiracy theories has to do with the fact that these really government lies relentlessly with the latest revelation being that Netanyahu had been warned about October 7th immediately before by the UAE president. And he's denied it. And then more news comes out in Israel. He pressed the New York Times confirming that that actually had happened. And that's why people's brains immediately jump to the possibility of somebody knowing something. In this case, Netanyahu had warned about Israel being attacked. You've got this series of events. I personally take it at face value. I'm not a conspiracy theorist on this one in particular, as suspicious as the circumstances are. But we should remember the fact that Netanyahu in the aftermath of 9/11, when asked about it, said it was a good thing because it puts America on the side of Israel more aggressively as Israel pursues its battle in the region as being somehow the spearhead of the battle against terrorism or else. So you are dealing in Netanyahu with somebody who just absolutely does not give a damn about the human cost of anything and looks at it purely politically on what is beneficial to him. And that's why we see him, you know, sharing details about this that even Trump is so unsure about that he's repeating it and saying, I don't know if it's true or not. That's just what Netanyahu told me. I mean, we can see that what Netanyahu is doing right here is trying to capitalize on this incident to shore up as much support as possible. Now, just one quick thing appears. I'm just going to note that Jonathan had just mentioned. We'll be all running out of time. I just want to be clear. I would be remiss to not mention Jonathan had mentioned about the numbers that came out and whether you can trust them or not. Yeah. The fact that the Israeli military itself, right, when they report on the numbers that they give about civilian casualties, they are telling you. These are sources that are coming out through Israeli media that are telling you the fact that the majority of people who are being murdered are in fact civilians. And you have it both ways here where the very people, including the NASA documentary, by the way, these are people that Israel is trying to strip the citizenship away from on account of the fact that they are disclosing details that nobody wants disclosed. So you can't have it both ways. If they are revealing secrets worthy of the fact that they are going to take their citizenship away, then you can't also turn around and say what they're saying is not true. It is obviously true that there's disclosing details that the Israeli government is deeply uncomfortable with. Okay. So guys, just to be clear, we literally got a couple of minutes left, literally tops. And it hasn't spoken. I want a very quick response from Amit to the hijacking story. Yeah. So just to wrap up the last lunatic argument, Israel is to be blamed for killing Gazans or genocide in Palestinians. And Israel is to be blamed for an attempt to hijack and crush. Nobody has said that. Let me finish. Thank you so much. And to crush a plane into this because you haven't paid a single sentence to condemn this attempt to hijack a plane, an Emirati plane and to crush it on. For everybody. For them. And no one. You know what? Because you spread conspiracies. And you say, no, I do not spread. I'm not spreading conspiracies. But one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. And then you just somehow create the impression that, you know, the sense of, of the fragrance, the, the filthy fragrance named conspiracy, claiming that Netanyahu has, it doesn't care about human lives. What the hell? Do you think Netanyahu is niches? You think that Netanyahu cares about human lives? Okay. Is this a real argument you're making? No, let me give you the bottom line. The bottom line with the bottom line with Netanyahu. One last thing. The bottom line with Thomas Netanyahu. I've got to say, is there a lot of unanswered questions now about what he did? Did you support the conspiracy theory? In the run up to October the 7th. And it is increasingly clear he was given die-raven Hillary Clinton. That is the question. There was going to be a massacre. Many, many final words to many about the hijacking. No, just one second. I hope that the last words by Medih Hassan would be finally a first condemnation for trying to hijack and kill 107 people. Okay. Well, let me ask Medih. Let me ask Medih for the first time. Let me ask Medih a very question. Medih, do you condemn the Somani parliament? First of all, first of all, first of all, first of all, first of all, first of all, every human being, normal human being condemns crimes, right? The idea that I should condemn it, why? Because I'm a Muslim. You should condemn it. I didn't hear you condemn it. No, you didn't. Because you didn't say it. I didn't hear you. I didn't hear you condemn the hijacking. People like hijacking. I condemn the killing of all civilians. You refuse to support the killing. Do you condemn the killing of all civilians? No. You have a Twitter account. Do you? Do you want from what I heard? Yet you have a father. Yes. I don't know the explanation of this. There were two additional pilots, thank God that I should have taken the plane back, at the end of the flight back from Tel Aviv to Dubai. And one of them at least, because the album was in total shock, the one of them just jumped above the three guys and the doctor in order to reach the cockpit. You have to understand that the plane was going down fast and quickly. I could see from the my window, the desert and the ground coming down. This was about one minute going down and all this time, these guys were fighting. The doctor was taking care of the Indian pilots and the extra first pilot, I think it was from Fiji, but I'm not sure New Zealand maybe, he was jumping above them and reaching the handle. He couldn't sit on the seat of the cockpit. He had to just jump and reach with his hands, the stabilizing handles and at the end he managed to somehow reach the seat. The second pilot, after that joined him, after we yelled at him to do something and joined the first pilot and they closed the door behind them. So after that, we started stabilizing the airplane. The people were still scared and there was a lot of chaos inside it. And one of the flight attendants, which is something that is not clear until now to nobody, was came to the cockpit area where the three guys were handling the terrorists and said, let him free, let him free. So when we heard that and the three Israeli guys yelled at us in Hebrew, take the flight attendants back to the rose because we suspect them maybe to be cooperating with the terrorists. So that's what we did, a few of the guys back, we took the flight attendants and we explained to them that there's no space there and they have to be a little bit back. Afterwards, they helped out to bring the oxygen bottles and the oxygen masks. By the way, we gave the terrorists oxygen masks as well, not only the Indian pilots. Sorry, sorry. I didn't want to interrupt you, because it was such a gripping account of what must have been an unbelievably terrifying experience. A few quick things I wanted to ask you, one, you know, when you discovered that the perpetrator here, the terrorist, was an Imani pilot who had been banned from flying in Imani, but had not been tracked or traced by any of the Israeli authorities. What was your reaction to that? As I said, after I went down the airplane and we were all safe, this is something I don't know exactly, but I am sure of one thing. This whole horrific incident has to be further investigated by the Emirates together with the Israeli, the Saudis, and they have to give answers to many, many people. First of all, to the passengers, first of all, to the pilots, flying hundreds of millions of people every day, and it cannot be that there will be no answers and full investigation by both all parties, Israeli parties, the Emirates parties, investigating it very deeply and getting the answers, what exactly happened there. Obviously, there have been a lot of security bridge and a lot of mistakes, but we want to look forward and learn from the mistakes. So I think we have to leave all the parties to investigate it until the end and get the answers. The other breaking news, as we have been talking, is CBS News and America reporting that Israel was prepared to shoot down the flight you by plane after the Captain was attacked, even with 150 Israelis on board, as according to its Israeli sources. What do you feel about that? I know that there is a procedure that also the United States has it after the 9/11. By the way, going down with the airplane, this is the first thought that I had in my mind, 9/11. Burden's the mind. I think that the US and Israel, I don't know about other countries, I think they have a protocol, emergency protocol, that if any airplane is reaching Israel or United States half an hour or 20 minutes and it's not giving certain codes or certain protocols spoken, then they have to take down the airplane. I'm not sure if there is exactly like that or not, but I cannot even imagine what would happen if they had to take down the airplane, but this is maybe the fifth miracle or out of the four that were before the Indian pilots, the three guys, the two additional pilots that were there and that were safe. So maybe this is the fifth miracle, but I really don't want to think what would happen if they would have to take us down, but I think that we have to look to be optimist as we all try to be during this horrific incident and leave this terrible scenario to other movies or other imaginary documentaries. Daniel, you must feel very lucky to be alive, what was the first thing you did when you got home? Well, actually all my family was waiting in the airport, you have to understand that they had horrific long hours not knowing what is going on and only when we reach tabooq, Saudi, we were able to log into e-sims and get them answers and they were really crying and it's the most happy. The minute of my life seeing my family again and being able to continue my life and enjoy my family, and we just have to wake up in the morning, look at the sun and say thank you for each day that we have. It's wonderful words, Daniel. I'm very glad to see you alive and well having survived what is everyone's nightmare. Thank you very much indeed for joining me. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. Well, joining me now with his perspective on the hijacking is Captain Steve Scheibner, the aviation expert and former commercial pilot. Captain Steve, welcome back to Uncensored. This is a really extraordinary story and retold very compellingly there by one of the passengers who was in the second row. You know, we've now heard a lot more information coming out about all this. What are the things that most strike you about this hijacking? What strikes me most about this is its similarities to the 9/11 style hijackings except it took place from within the cockpit not outside the cockpit. That's one differentiation. The other is the decency of human beings. Now in the midst of unspeakable evil up in the cockpit, I'm going to refer to the co-pilot as evil for the rest of this conversation because he was. In the midst of it, everybody rose to the occasion and did what they were good at to turn this whole thing around and have an incredibly good outcome of it. I've just blown away by all the firsthand reports this guy's report. I interviewed a passenger on the day after about what happened. He corroborated everything your guest just said about what happened in that airplane. It's absolutely shocking that they saved that airplane but everybody did the right thing at the right time because they had to. The most shocking thing to me is that this guy, this co-pilot, was banned from flying in his own country, a man and yet somehow has slipped through the net here to not only do this run many times but to actually go to Israel a few days before this. He had this all worked out and planned it appears to be that he was a lone wolf extremist, you've been radicalized. But are you, I mean, it just seems unfathomable the after 9/11 someone who's been banned by his own country from flying a plane is anywhere near a cockpit. Are you as a gas designer? Yes, I absolutely am the system if the system can fail you it will. And so the vetting system over there fly Dubai's vetting system let everybody down in the worst possible way this guy should have never been anywhere near an airplane period. Apparently the airplane airline he worked for before banned him from flying but didn't communicate that or wasn't transmitted to fly Dubai when he got another job. And he didn't get I don't know he didn't get vetted out anywhere along the line. My understanding is he should have been and he this guy again should have never been anywhere near the controls of a commercial jet. One thing that was extraordinary of course was the pilot despite being, you know, very badly injured in the attack still have the presence of mind and the ability to open the door from the cockpit side. Now again as a consequence of 9/11 you're my understanding is they've made these doors to the cockpit pretty impregnable to get in from the passenger side. But it's quite easy from the pilot side if you just press a knob but you've got to obviously be physically able to do that. So they were very fortunate I guess that this pilot still have the presence of mind and ability to do that. Yeah, the Captain Schmidt is an absolute hero. He's the first hero amongst many on that flight. He had the presence of mind while he's fighting for his life, by the way, being attacked with the crash acts in the airplane to reach back. Now, the 737 cockpit's kind of small, so he can reach back if he leans all the way back and stretches. He can just turn the door knob. It's like any other door. You just turn the door knob. The door will open, but it opens in, not out. So it opened up enough so that lady that was with her daughter at the front toilet saw what was going on in the cockpit, saw the blood, saw the melee, heard the screaming. She screamed. Her husband jumped up to her assistance and then everybody else rushed forward. So the paradigm you saw taking place here on this flight was what changed after 9/11. Prior to 9/11, we were all trained as passengers to be passive, let the authorities handle it and assist if you were called on that all changed after September 11, 2001. The passengers now are going to commandeer and take over that aircraft, even if it's one of the pilots. So they worked through that rather quickly, pulled out the captain and started getting him medical attention while they're fighting, fighting with the co-pilot at the same time at this airplane is in a steep dive. All of this is absolutely amazing. And there's one more thing that I'm reporting on and some others have that I trust have been reporting on now. And it seems as though both engines were not operating while they were in the midst of this dive. And we're reporting on that because the emergency evacuation lights on the inside of the airplane are illuminated. And there's only one way for those lights to illuminate in flight and that's that both engines are not operating. So not only was it a miracle that the off-duty pilots that got into the cockpit saved the airplane from the dive, they had the further issue of having to relate the engines while they were in the midst of that melee. Absolutely incredible. And also there's this Israeli plumber who only knew about planes from what he watched on YouTube, it seems, but was able to run in and pull it out of his dive before the the reserve pilots got into the cockpit. I mean, how amazing was that? That's absolutely amazing, but you know what necessity is the mother of invention, correct? And so he's probably watched a few of these TV shows where somebody was in a dive into the passenger, pulled an airplane out and all he got to do was pull back and if you pull back the houses get bigger. And so he did and the airplane leveled out enough so that the pilot that was now according to the guy that you just interviewed was basically catapulting over everybody in this melee to get into the cockpit and continue to do it. You got to do it just right or you're really going to overstress the airplane. Clearly there was an overstressed situation because part of the rudder came off the aircraft, but not so much of an overstress that the airplane was not flyable that going forward. I mean, as you said, Captain Steve, you've got of the villain, the evil copilot trying to perpetrate mass murder, but then you have a series of heroes. You know, the Indian pilot, the Israeli plumber, the reserve pilots, the the woman and the child who saw what was happening who were lurking people and so on. If any one of those people hadn't done what they'd done, this would have probably ended in complete catastrophe and the deaths of over 150 people is it is a true miracle. And as you say, highly unlikely to have probably played out the way it did had it not been for 9/11 and passengers now understanding that when there's something like this happening, you've got to do something. Yeah, you absolutely have to do something. And the gentleman I interviewed a couple days ago said we didn't trust the rest of the crew. And rightly so. People wearing uniforms with stripes let them down. And so I guess one of the flight attendants now was kind of saying sympathetic with the copilot. At that point, the passengers organized and said he told me that they assigned two people to each one of the cabin crew members to escort them back to their seat and keep an eye on for the entire flight. So was this a mutiny? I don't know. They commandeered the flight. The passengers did for sure. While the authorities now sorted it out on the ground and they decided where they were going to go. The guy that you just interviewed talked about the Israeli jets launching on the airplane. Yeah. And that's a secondary issue now that you got to worry about because their protocol is to find out and to eliminate the threat as quickly as possible. So the replacement pilots got into the cockpit. They dialed in 7,700 in the transponder code. They left it there for 60 seconds. And then they switched to 7,500, which is the international code that we've been hijacked. The threat hasn't been eliminated yet because as soon as those fighter jets show up, they're going to want to know who's in control of that airplane. So if I'm in that cockpit and I'm a good guy at that point, I'm on the radio yelling as loud as I can. We got it. We got it. We're in control of the airplane. The bad guys are tied up in the back. Trust me. You know, look at me in the window. See, I'm a good guy. Here I am, you know. And I'm sure that they did all of that to communicate to this fighter. Just don't don't shoot us down. Just escort us to the airport and it will be fine. But to be clear, if they don't give the right codes or can't communicate that everything is secure in a way that the authorities believe, the protocol now, according to the passenger, you will know this, is the protocol now that those fighter jets would have shot the plane down? Yep. They're going to intercept the aircraft. They're going to assess the situation. If they think it's a threat to people on the ground, they've got protocols in place. I'm sure they're going to check first before they do that because an airplane at even at 15,000 feet isn't a threat to anybody in the next few minutes. They've got, they're going to talk to some folks and verify that. But if they get the green light, it's going to be weapons away. Because there's people on the ground that, again, they don't know that there's a threat in the air above them. Yeah, absolutely amazing. One astonishing story, an astonishing escape. Captain Steve, always great to have you on, particularly for Story Love Days. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Pissed Morgan on Sensor is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. We enjoy our show and also only one simple thing. It's subscribe on YouTube and follow Pissed Morgan on Sensor on Spotify and Apple Podcast. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain and we'll do it all for free. 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