Topic-: Be Impossible to Ignore: From Building Scale to Building Authority

Speaker 1 Hello, hello everyone, welcome back to Ashikima Radio podcast, a space to voices that uplift and work in deeper conversation across nations and communities. For me, it's, it's a truly gift to be part of something that's value wisdom, you know, service and meaningful human connection. So before we begin, I want to acknowledge 2 leaders who continue to bring this vision to life. Doctor Abinash and Determinashi, thank you for the space you know you create for the leaders you bring together and for the holding community that truly stands for gross impact and transformation. So today, conversation is going to be one of those conversation. I believe. We'll stay with you. So we have an honour to have today, Miss Anusha. Anusha both. I'm just going to introduce her incredible, incredible journey. We're going to dive to port for conversation today. I'm so, so excited. So as you know, before I found the works into the room, the reputation is already there. You know, before something decided to trust their work, they already form. There is a perception formed already and many leaders believe that just doing the work is enough. But sometimes people clearly they don't see that, you know, outside, they don't see it. So today our guest going to talk about this in deep, deep conversation, how that happen and visibility and, and how, you know, leaders can can dive into, you know, be seen not just internally, but externally. So I'm just going to give introduction to our guest today and today with us, Miss Anrisha Bose, one of our IDC chairs. So Miss Anrisha Bose, Co founder of Blue Mint Services based in Dubai and someone who works very, very powerful intersection of content, strategy and institution. That's very powerful because you know, somebody, you know, grabs all these three. I think it's from my personal opinion, very powerful. She helps founders, leaders and organisation build a presence to speak for themselves before, you know, before even say a single word. So, but what makes her journey to me more powerful? She didn't start there. So Miss and Michelle was a part of building a Blossom and it's an educational platform that reached millions of people. Well, when I read that, it was just amazing how she did that. So we got to dive into that. And also she led the team of 120 members. We're going to also talk about that. So I believe Miss and she understands scale, she understand leadership and now she bring all this together for helping others to become impossible to ignore, impossible to ignore. Very powerful world here. It's impossible to ignore. So welcome, Welcome Miss Anne Richard to this podcast and very honoured to have you today here. Speaker 2 Thank you. Thank you so much, Amir. I'm really happy to be here. It's an honour to be an IGC chair and to be on your podcast as well. Speaker 1 Thank you, thank you. It's it's it's amazing to to be part of this community. I, I, I'm honoured to be in this community with IQC chairs and amazing journey for me. So thank you for being here again. We're going to dive deeply in this conversation. It's this deep conversation to me. So we're going to start. So miss enriches. One thing I've already noticed from my journey leadership in met many, many successful people, you know, usually start with the with the with the story, you know that define you know, where they go and like a turning point in their life, just like, OK, this is my take it. So usually I like to start with that so people will know you better. Our listeners can you know, understand you better. Where where you did you start? Just, you know, share your your story with us here. That'll be less. Speaker 2 OK, so yeah, I know even I, you know, when I work with leaders, everybody has this story. You know, this was the moment, the light bulb moment when I thought that this is what I should do. So I'll start with my first venture, which was aglasem.com. So just to give you a context, the the website was everything about education and learning, but how it started was very simple. We were uploading previous year question papers and resources for engineering students. Now I don't know about you, how studious you were in your college days or your university days. So I'll just tell you what me and my cofounder were like. So just before our exams in our college, there used to be this one small photocopy shop. And you could see, like, huge lines outside that photocopy shop just a few days before exam. Why? Because everybody would be rushing there to, you know, Yeah, yeah. The notes, the resources, the sample papers and everything. So that was the lightable moment when we thought that, you know, if we put all of this online, then it will be so much easier. It will save so much time, you know, because just before the exam, every minute is very precious. And if you download all of them online, it will be so much easier for you. So we started with one college and then it was really incredible how the word just spread, you know, because we were just focusing on our circle, our college, but then we started getting calls from our friends from other colleges and then they were like, you know, do it for us. Also, even our college students need this. And it slowly grew to a lot of colleges. And once we established this as a company, we realised that that was, you know, just when Internet big started also becoming accessible to people. And we realised that if students get their resources, get that information and guidance in a very cohesive manner, easy to access and free to use manner because, you know, you can always get paid counsellors. So obviously, yeah. But if a student can see in one place, OK, you know that after class 12th there are not just two things I can do. There are 25 things that I can do and there are good opportunities there. And this is how I can actually get into this particular career field. So that is how the whole first venture sort of grew. And then from then it has been a journey. Now, I know that in entrepreneurship, that light bulb moment is glorified, but honestly, it's like, you know, you learn everything each, you know, you learn something every day. Absolutely. And yeah. And that is how, you know, our different ventures also started evolving. And the latest one was because I have been working even just for Aglas and with so many leaders, you know, because our whole network has been, you know, founders and leaders across the globe just as entrepreneurs. So I used to keep saying that there are so many people doing great things, but they're so shy going online and telling people about their work. And so they lose out to people who are maybe not doing such great work, but they're more vocal about what they're doing, why they're doing and why it matters to other people. Now this last part I have always felt is very important. Like say if I create a product I can have a beautiful story on why I built it, but unless it makes a difference to 10 people outside my organisation, nobody is going to adopt it. Absolutely, absolutely. And that is where founders and teams had been losing out because they have been great creating that product because you know, for everybody their company is a baby that the product is something they have seen this nights on. But communicating that to the outside world has is not everybody's Forte. In fact, that is not the Forte of 95% of the leaders that I have met. I. Speaker 1 Believe that. Speaker 2 And that's there for a reason, right? Because you are spending all the time with your tech team, with your product team, with doing market research, analysis. You just don't have the mental bandwidth to create that skill set. And I had always had a lot of fun, you know, communicating. And because even for AGLA SEM and for all the ventures, we used to talk a lot to different people, to stakeholders. He had a big obsession with, you know, what do people actually want? So because. And so that was, and I heard a lot of leaders even before I started blooming, build their presence online or their companies to communicate clearly. So that was the light bulb moment for blooming. But although it was not one moment, it was like a long yeah, where and where this was created? Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Wow, wow. This is very powerful, you know, thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, you know, it's sometimes like inside you and you you don't notice until you find this moment and say, yeah, this is me. This I need to jump on this. I need to make impact, you know, for, for people and, and most of most of the stories like that, you know, just, you just have this in deep inside and, and you just, it just come to you and they say, OK, I need to take courage and move forward on it. And, and then most people I, I work with, they, they let it go. They don't, they don't take this, you know, opportunity or this moment, maybe because of the, the scare, maybe their fear and then let it go. But I think it's, you know, the, the, when you find this moment to me, don't, don't let it go, just go with it because that changed your whole life. And most people like they find when they found this change and it did for me. So very, very powerful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing this with us today. Really, really inspiring. So, so I, I, you know, moving forward, Mr Enrich, you know, you speak, I, I love this when you speak about, you know, become impossible to ignore and for, for leaders and for companies and for organisation. It just caught my eyes, you know, impossible to ignore. So can you, can you just share what this mean to you beyond visibility? Speaker 2 OK, so when the first time I talked to a founder or a company about visibility, the first thing I think of is do we have to make TikTok reels? Do we have to make Instagram Reels or YouTube Shorts and stuff like that? No, that is not what visibility is. See, visibility means that when somebody looks you up online or when they talk to somebody else about you, what do they grasp as quickly as possible? OK, so let's say if I Google a founder and I find that his LinkedIn profile was last updated when he was in college and it says open to work, I'm not taking that seriously, right? Or. Speaker 1 If. Speaker 2 And I'll also give you some examples because now this information spreads very fast on the Internet, right? Absolutely. So let's say your company is not doing any work on being visible online, but they have a product. Now have some customers and some of them are not happy. Now what you see is that happy customers don't usually talk about you, but an unhappy customer would definitely post about you, right? So when a new potential client or a customer looks you up online and the first thing they see is something really negative about you, they are not going to convert. So visibility in short, is what is that perception that people have about you before they have met you or used your product or talk to you personally? Wow. So. Speaker 1 This is amazing. Yeah. This is very powerful. You know, if you understand that, yeah. Speaker 2 Exactly. You know, a lot of companies tell me that Anbisha product is so good that if a person uses it, they are not going to go back to the other product they had been using using or the other company they had been using for the service. But The thing is that how are you getting that customer? I mean, obviously you can run paid campaigns and paid promotions, but those are always a cash burning, you know, mechanism. You can do that to gain some people, but you can't do that to retain people or create a loyal base. So before they are coming to your product, before they are coming to you, why should they come to you? So that is where your visibility comes into play. So it works very differently in different industries. So it works differently if, if you're if you're the founder of a company, which is very say visual focus like a food brand or say sneakers. So you visibility would mean something different if you are the founder of a company who that is serving B to B space for you visit, it would mean different. So that is something that needs to be engineered. It's not something that just happens overnight. Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you very much. This is very distinguished, you know, moment for me because I, I hear it a lot like, you know, you have to just work on your LinkedIn profile. You know, you want to just make good visibility and and then behind you like just when I started, like why I have to, you know, do that, You know, I'm more going to work on my product. I'm going to work on my, you know, programmes. I want to work more and make my programme, you know, very strong, but I don't think like this is like this is like the door for everything, right? But you're just saying here people can see this and make perception before even they talk to you in? Speaker 2 Fact. You know, there's a quote by Jeff Bezos that I think about a lot, he said. Your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. Speaker 1 So that's very important now. Speaker 2 Yeah, and now The thing is #1 how do you get people to speak about you at all when you're not in the room? And #2 how do you make sure that they are saying good things about you? So that's where visibility is all about. And I think you picked up a right point. You mentioned LinkedIn, and that is also one of the biggest focus we have. But there's a reason for it. See LinkedIn. It's not like LinkedIn is the biggest platform there is on the planet, but for most founders, it is the best case entry point. What I mean by that, let me explain. You have LinkedIn, you have got YouTube, you have got Instagram and TikTok, and you have got all different other platforms like Facebook and everything else. Right now for a founder who's doing serious work, it's not easy to make Instagram reuse because you need some sort of creative, you know, mind that has to continuously think, OK, you know, what is trending? What sort of reason? Like can you even dance or do all those funny, quirky, you know, behind the scene? But LinkedIn is something which makes sense because, you know, you are doing a serious work and you can talk about those things in that platform. So LinkedIn is a great entry point and as and when the market or the the time is right for them, they can move on to other platforms as well. Speaker 1 Wow, wow. This is very, very powerful. Yeah. I think we, we need to understand like as, as the founders and leaders, you know, leading organisation, what's the entry point? You know, it's supposed to be so we can just move forward, you know, and visibility in, in and, and, and to me, this is always like inner work. When you do the inner work outside, you just show. So I think, I think what most of what we're going to talk about today is just inner work. And, and like, you know, when we mastered that, then, then it will be powerful. So Miss Angwisher, I just want to take you back a little bit from your journey before bloom in started. You are building scale with a glassman, A glassine, if I pronounce the right glassine. So and, and, and I know you reach millions of people. This is amazing. When I also come across that, you know that organisation, you reach millions of people. So can you just tell us what happened behind the scenes, You know how that happened and how you did that? That would be nice. Speaker 2 Yeah, OK. So the platform that we built was aglasem.com. I did that with my cofounder Anand. And I'll just give you a quick recap of the numbers that at the peak we reached 25,000,000 monthly page views, 2,000,000 plus daily users. We were at the top 100. Yeah. Then we were at the top 100 websites in India, top 1500 globally. Yeah, the total team size grew to around 180 and 120 were around were reporting directly to me. So the the corporate version of what the journey was would be to say that it was raw and it was exciting. But the if I can just tell you in one word, it was a crazy journey. Like it was really crazy. You know, we start did building this straight out of college. We were like young and naive. We had no. Speaker 1 Idea of amazing. Speaker 2 But that was a good thing because you know if you are young and naive, you are not really scared of a lot of things. Speaker 1 Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. This is a part of the, you know, the success. You don't scare, you just do what's need to be done. Speaker 2 As you know, because as you grow older, you think of 10 different things. OK, that you know, what if this happens so much? What if it fails and all that. When you're young, you you really don't care about. Speaker 1 You just do it. Speaker 2 You just do it. So we there are many things that I actually learnt while building the company. The first was that there is only so much that you can do yourself. You know, as founders, we sometimes feel that I'm the best person to do this, this, this and this and all the 10 different things. Speaker 1 That happen right, but. Speaker 2 Then what happens is that you end up doing nothing. Well, probably. Speaker 1 Absolutely, absolutely. You've spoken to me when I started, so I did the same. Speaker 2 Yeah. So I I think you can relate, right? You think that, you think that OK, how can somebody else do this properly, but then you then realise that. It's not enough to build a product. It's important to now build a team. So then your attention gets divided. And when they built like a really huge team. And when I say there were 120 people reporting to me, it was it was honestly, now it. I feel that it was honestly scary because you know, you are responsible for so many people, for so many. Yeah, you know what they are doing everyday. This is something that no MBA or no book can actually prepare you for. I mean, there is many things, yeah. Speaker 1 I know, absolutely. I work with leaders, so I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. If you're not prepared, you just, you just get there and just use. What do you have knowledge or like, you know, experience? You don't have many experience. Speaker 2 And the, and, and I'm, I'm really grateful that we were able to build a team that really understood our vision, really understood the end user and always did the right thing. You know, there is, there are always shortcuts to take and then there are always the long game. And our team understood that what we were doing was for the longer game and we never took any shortcuts to just, you know, either rank or something. We always kept in mind that the end user should be happy with what we are telling on the platform. OK, but if you just talk about what are the things I learned, I will say number one, team building is a very critical job. The right or the wrong person, You know, hiring the right or the wrong person absolutely changes your story #2 firing is something that teaches you even more. It is not something that many founders or entrepreneurs talk about. But the first time you know you have to fire somebody, it changes you completely. It changes how you take your journey forward. You know, you slow, you slow things down a bit after that and #3 would be that sometimes you have to let things go. You know, everything is not always perfect. You know that there are many things that we tried and sometimes they did not workout. So we understand like, you know, if like in Aglasam, we also expanded to different languages. So we tried that as well. But then we realised that if you're not really a big expert at something, it's, you can't really handle that as well. So you learn as you go. I think it's more a learn as you go, especially for bootstrapped startups. So we were completely bootstrapped from day one. And that is something that's a philosophy I still have to date. I, I don't really look for investment. I like to do things my day. So Bootstrap ventures frequently. Speaker 1 Absolutely, absolutely wow, amazing, amazing this journey. I think it's you learn a lot from it and that's I think it's kind of shape who you are right now, you know, leading all this, you know, company here. But you know, to me, when you start as a leader with that, you know, as young, I said earlier you didn't have experience. I was talking about your early age. Now we have tremendous experience, of course, but but, but, you know, leading 120 members to me is, is true leadership. You know, it's not, it's not a theory. It's not, you know, like you reading books, you really, you know, implementing really leadership because I'm, this is where this is my space here in leadership context. I work with leaders and I know sometimes it's not easy to lead like large, large members, large group. You have to be grounded to leadership and, and, and, and just be like work from inside a lot to to can lead that team. You know, you don't micromanage, you know, you don't let people down. Like I said, you know, you have to inspire your people and you work a lot. Just make this team work, you know, tremendously for you and for themselves as well. So it's nice to talk about that. But now, now we're reflecting back on all this here, how you see yourself as a leader now going through all this journey, you know, how you see yourself as. Speaker 2 I think, I think I've calmed down a lot now. OK, so even now I have these words when if I have an idea today, I want it to be implemented tomorrow. But I know that that's not always possible. It's not feasible. It's not like, you know, you don't rub a lamp and a genie comes out and you can just tell them that this will happen tomorrow. So as in, I think I've calmed down a lot and I now trust people more to, you know, if somebody tells me I'm going to do it in five days, I don't buy for those five days. Obviously on the 5th day, I would ask them. But for my for myself to be in that calm headspace for at least those five days and not worry about it. So that's one thing I think I have improved in. Yeah. And but there is, there has always been one thing that I have not left and that is an obsession with understanding the end user. So I may have teams, I may have other people doing that research for me, but whenever I have a client for me at Lumen Services, the end user is not the client. It is the end user of that client. So I'll give you an example. If I'm working with the founder and they say that my end goal is that in the next 9 to 12 months I need to release my seed a money South. I need to understand what are the type of investors they are going to reach out. So that is the end user for me. So that is the sort of people I need to research. If it's a company, I need to understand who are the clients, where, where do they live? That's how we are going to build the positioning. So as a leader, I still have that obsession with understanding the end user. So that is still there for me. But yeah, that's absolutely. Speaker 1 Absolutely. I think sandwich, I think this is the the key factor of success to understand the end user or like you know, your audience or they call you know your, you know, people who buy from you or people who like you know, you influence. Once you understand them, understand them from inside out, I think everything will become easier afterwards. You know, that's something I missed when I started. I was focusing on my again, my focus on my programme, focus on my what I'm going to show people. And, you know, I'm very happy about what I built and I found out no, I need to understand people first, you know, understand who the the end user and then go from there and come back. So this is, I think, very important for realisation. But this from my personal experience, I think is, is very important to leave from that place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that. So and Michelle, at some point, you know, I saw you, you moved from building platforms to sharing authority. So what that change within you, what the change here and can you just share that with us? Speaker 2 OK, so like I said before, it was probably a cumulation of events, but yeah, two things do stand out. One of my friends, she works in Dubai. I can't really name the organisation or something, but she works in an organisation which closely works with the government and she's an incredible person. She has got a lot of certifications, a lot of knowledge and she like at 1:00 AM also if her team says that, you know, this is a fire we have to put out, she is the one they come to. But she told me that there was an ex colleague of hers who is really active on LinkedIn and he gets a lot of speaker invitations and he gets a lot of, you know, industry invitations to talk at events and all of that. And that's why he's also, he's able to now grow in his career a lot. And I was like, so you should also, you know, be active on LinkedIn. And, you know, maybe you are so good at teaching people, you should also create YouTube videos and teach people about because her industry is very complicated. There are a lot of legalities and technicalities involved. And she is very good at explaining those. But she's like, I really don't know how to do all of this. And I'm very scared of how to do this. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 2 And that was where I felt that leaders are not able to do this by themselves and they need somebody to guide them and help them. And another one was that was really heartbreaking. I won't say he was a friend. In fact, he was, he was an acquaintance who developed a really good crypto app and it was amazing. It got a lot of downloads and everything. It got more than 100K downloads. And that in the market you can invest. But when he went out for getting investments, he kept losing up people who were more visible. So you know, there are people who have been doing maybe interviews and podcasts and they're more, you know, vocal online about what they are building by their building and all of those things. And he lost a huge investment round because because of he told me that the person who got it has a good, you know, following online and everything. And the investors believe that when he launches the second stage of the product, he's going to do better. So I think these were two turning points where I felt that, OK, you know, everybody is not that great at communicating and people have a lot of mental blocks in going out, speaking out, doing things. Like, I mean, imagine if somebody has to come to the podcast and they will think a million times, what if I say something wrong? What if people make fun of me and all those things? So that is where we engineer them. We tell them, OK, that, you know, this week, let's just do this, this this next month, we are going to do this. So I had always had a lot of fun already guiding my friends and network and doing all of this in a very informal way. And I thought, let's do this on a larger scale for people, and there are people doing good work. I think their good work should actually come on the platforms where they deserve to see. Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Wow. This is very powerful. Also it's a, it's a turning point for you to move forward to who you are right now. I think it's, it's I see from also working in corporate organisations, this is this is missing. This piece is missing a lot. And, and, and when you come in here, I think you help a lot an organisation and leaders to to bridge this gap. It's very important. And this just take me to my next question I want to ask you. It's like, you know, there is a gap. You know, I see myself and even with working with individuals, there is a gap between, we call it in, in, in, in my word mindset, stuff like gap between knowing and doing you know things and you do something else. There is a big gap. So you need to breathe this gap. But but you, for you, you, you see there is a gap between companies like what they know internally, they know about their product, they know about everything, but there is outside, it's not showing. People don't see that. So what do you think is why those perennial leaders and CSO, like they're trying to communicate this, you know, outside their work? Speaker 2 I, I'll give you an example. Imagine that you are an artist and you have this huge canvas and you spend a year making a painting, right? So, you know, like I first I thought that I'll make this Then I picked up the paint brush and I did this, this. So what happens when somebody comes and asks them, OK, what is this painting? They describe that process, but nobody really cares about that, right? They want to know why they should find the painting. Nobody has the time or interest in the process. So especially in companies which are more tech focused, like I work with a lot of companies which are B2B or even B2C ones, where the product or the service in itself is very technical. So they keep telling, you know, we use this technology, that technology, we did that. But that's not going to help. That's not what the person wants to hear. The person wants to hear if you buy my product, you are going to save, save this $1,000,000. You are going to cut the maybe the customer conversion time by this many days. So these are the things people want to hear, you know, in their language. But I understand why that doesn't happen is because the, the, the core team, even they bring in a marketing team, they keep pushing these things to them. You know, I am using AI, I'm using LLM, I'm using this and that, but people don't want to hear that. What people want to hear is why they should need it. And also a lot of times they want to hear why you are different, but not in the traditional sense. I'll give you an example. So there was a pet pet products company. Now, they had actually rejected a lot of ingredients because they were not as good for the pets, but others were really using it because of that. There, you know what you call the costs had increased, but they had not transferred the cost to the product. So all of this thing had happened. But if you put that in the right places, if you're putting it on the website, if you're putting it on the Insta, the LinkedIn and everywhere, you know, people get to have one more reason to come to you and not pick the ten other competitors that are out there. So I think because all of this is so mundane for the companies that they forget that these are important things that we can utilise to actually, you know, grow to get more clients, to get the attention of investors and all of that. It's just mundane. Anybody who is doing it wouldn't really understand that it's important. Speaker 1 Absolutely, but it's very, very important, you know, to understand that because to me, just from personal experience 11 we work from in our products or you know, work like from what we want to show people. We kind of like focus on too much on the product and all our languages become like, you know, foreign to other people because we're too much focus inside that product and we assume like people understand what we're talking about. And when we share it with people, we say, what is this? Because we're, we don't think about like make it simple and make it clear to people and just, you know, just like, get out of this, you know, focusing and just go out and see from the top. And they have see how people can understand it. I think this is a trap. You know, most of us, we, we, we get into and we think people assume assuming people understand what we're talking about. And I see it in also big organisation like, you know, we'll talk about, you know, language and things that people don't understand from our side because we daily, we use this in a daily basis. So there I think there's the gap here, the communication gap. I think it started. This is just my from my personal experience. What do you think about that analogy? Speaker 2 Yes, yes. So it's like like you said about the language that you speak, right. So within a company, we use a language that people like I and my team would understand, but when I'm going to talk to my clients about it, I need to put it in a language that they would understand. So yes, yes, and it's difficult. I understand that, like you pointed out that, you know, running a 120 member team and a company that grew so big. I understand that growing a company is a it is a 24/7 job. You don't have any time left to do all of this. You know, sometimes founders also feel that, you know, why, why should I go on LinkedIn and write post and thought leadership and all that? It's not part of my journey. I don't want to do all of this. So I understand because you don't have that. Even if you have the time on the clock, you don't have that mental space left to do one more thing in your life, right? So that's there, but it's required like now you can't. Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think it's leadership is not, it's, it's a joy of work, but it's a big responsibility when you take it fully. I think it's, it shows, you know, when you take this responsibility and work from work on yourself, this is what we, we, we, we, we kind of speak to leaders. You know, you work on yourself first before you work with anybody else. So when you build that momentum from inside, then then all this, you know, heavy load of responsibility become easier because you, you raise yourself to the person, not just like get an external external like, you know, I want to take this course, I want to take this how to, you know, how to take pressure and all this, you know, those are all good external work. But once you build yourself and become that person who, who do all these things, then everything will become easier for you because now you're raised to the person, not to the person who will want to become. So I think this the inner worker because fascinating to me because I talk about it a lot with leaders. And I see a big shift when when leaders they do that work and and become leadership become easy because like it's mentioned, this responsibility is huge. You, you responsible for many, many people, you know, working for you, for the organisation, for many things. But this is. Speaker 2 And people only and people can, you know, only see the the glorious part of being a leader. They think that oh, you are your own boss and you get to do so many cool things. Nobody has to, nobody tells you what to do. But all of this actually, you know, there are two sides to every coin. So sometimes the leader also feels it will be good if somebody can actually tell me what to do because I, I don't work 9:00 to 5:00, but I work 24/7. So leadership comes with a lot of it's not as glorious, but yes, the best thing about being an entrepreneur or being a founder, being a leader is. That you get to make an impact and that's I think what leaders. Speaker 1 Going yeah, 100 percent, 100% you know when you have your why you have your vision and the impact that everything become easier other than otherwise people will will stop stop going because it's heavy. But when you have this, why you just do whatever it takes to? Speaker 2 To make. Speaker 1 The impact you, you feel like this is, you know, I want to help people and this is, this is a journey I want to take. So when you wake up in the morning, you just give you a lot of fuel to, to do all the things. And it's important to every time we come to the why, you know, remind ourselves why, why I'm doing this to, to give you the, the energy to, to move forward. Thank you that this is very powerful conversation here. We're going deep. Thank you. Thank you very much and Misha for all this, but getting close here, we just want to you give us a lot of, you know, insight and, and advice and thoughts around this, you know, topic. But we've for for for the leaders who are listening today, for the founders or entrepreneurs listening to us today. What one or two things you think this is very, very critical that can shift, you know, their mind so they can be more visible outside, outside the world. So if you can share with us 11 just one nugget or two, that'll be great. Speaker 2 OK, I'll say it in a way that will maybe add a bit of pressure on them, but I think this is good pressure. So to the leaders, I'd like to say that you know, your responsibility does not end with creating a product or building an awesome team. It is also your responsibility to make sure that the world knows what you're doing and why it should matter to them. Your presence is an asset that will work. Either work in your favour or it will go against you. And you can engineer this from day one. The best day to actually start building a presence is the day you have started decided to, you know, work on a new idea, but you have not done that. Then the second, you know, best day is today. So you need a presence to build towards that vision that you have and that is important for you and your team and the product or the service that you have brought into the world. Speaker 1 Very powerful, very powerful. Yeah, we use that. I think it's it's going to be very, very amazing. Just start now, start now, and then just then wait, you know, and then wait it. Speaker 2 Is never late. It is never late even even if you think oh I've wasted so much time not doing it, but it's never late. Just start doing it from today and you will reap the rewards eventually. Speaker 1 Absolutely, absolutely. This is very, very powerful advice. Miss Sandwich. Thank you very much. We're getting close. So last, last thing. I just want to usually I, I bring the conversation to our listeners. So bring them back this conversation. I just want to to share like last message or just from in general, like what's your message? What you want to say to our listeners? Today was last, last, you know, message for us here today. Speaker 2 I would say that if you have a dream, never think that it's a small dream or that you're not worthy of working on it. Believe in your dreams but also work towards it because you're dreaming when you're sleeping but when you're waking up, you need to put in the work that your dream deserves. So that's just it. Dream big, work hard, and whatever you do, be proud of the good work that you have put into every day of your life. Speaker 1 Wow, amazing dream big and just, you know, move forward. You know the there's like many, many opportunities out there, just believe and also believe in yourself. This is very powerful. Thank you, thank you and and and wish you for all this insight today. I think we're you know you. We dive to very powerful conversation. Thank you. I just want to thank you for what you shared today to me, not just for what you share it just like how you see things because I see your work are very deep and also appreciate that. And it goes beyond the content and visibility. So I touch clarity and I touch identity and trust, though I really admire you for all this and thank you. Thank you very much today and honoured to have you today. Speaker 2 Thank you. It is an honour for me. Thank you. Speaker 1 Thank you. Thank you. And for a message for our listeners today and for everybody listening today, Maybe we're going to just leave you with one question. You know, are you doing the great work, but you're staying and seeing? Are you doing the great work, but staying and seeing? This is a question for you. Or are you willing to step into a version of yourself that clearly aligned and impossible to ignore? Thank you very much, our listener today. Thank you for everybody, and I'll see you next time. Peace. Thanks.