Top stock picks for 2026 (with Jun Bei Liu)

Hello and welcome to the Australian's Money Puzzle Podcast I'm James Kirby. Welcome aboard everybody, and if you've just tuned in, we started the year earlier this week with the edition your shares in 2026 and we had Mark Jochum. Take us on a panoramic view really of global investment markets and what we might reasonably expect in the year ahead. Today we're going to look at individual shares, specifically we're going to look at Australian shares on the ASX which means we're talking about stock picking and joining me on the show is June Bay Lou of TEDCAP. If you recall, she did this exercise with me last year. She had just started her fund actually this time last year, certainly as a in its current reformation and in that 12 month period I think we can say that she's become one of the best known high profile certainly stock pickers in the market. Very good to have you on again. How are you JB? I am great. Hi James. Thank you so much for having me. Always love to have chat about the stock market. Well, we are ready to roll. As I say, we did an exercise earlier in the week where we just looked at the broader market and the conditions out there. Just to refresh for everybody, our own market, the US did about 17-18% and we in the end almost got to 10%, thankfully due to as always the dividend kicker of 3.5% or so which has come down. It used to be about 4.5%. We'll come back to that as the show goes on. But we want to look at first of all the outlook for the ASX. First question, but clear question for you. Do you think the ASX can do it again this year, can it do double digits? Yeah, ASX definitely is going to get to the double digits if anything potentially a little bit upside. I'll tell you why. There's a couple of tailwinds. One is that we started seeing our corporate earnings doing a little bit better. In the last few years, we have had a lot of downgrades and now looking forward next 12 months and we're looking at the corporate earnings growth between 8-12%. That's actually pretty good. And then if you look at some of the biggest sector, actually one of the biggest sector which is mining in Australia, they are having, they are on fire. That sector is projected to do pretty well again this year. Of course it would be more selective, it would be more supported by some of the structural commodity like copper and others, but that sector should do pretty well. They pay pretty big dividends and that should drive quite a lot of growth in terms of earnings as well. So our market, I think it will get to 10% potentially with a little bit more. I guess there's a bit of expectation for US market to do so much better as people always do. I think the one thing that sort of held holding us back is the back of the my question of what's going to happen to our interest rate. We're going to get a hike towards the end of the year. Potentially, I don't think it's coming soon, but I do think potentially there is a chance, but that is still going to see our markets have a pretty good return. So just to give people some context there, it's not that we have strong earnings this year. So much as we have earnings this year, right? So it's actually been pretty dull, hasn't it, in terms of earnings. And perhaps behind all the noise, the inability to have strong earnings on the ASX is really what explains why we were dragging our heels compared to the US in recent times. That's right. The US, because the index is very dominated by a lot of those growth businesses and they have done incredibly well. And the challenge is that for next year is there is a bit of investor's skepticism with evaluation and are they getting returns and they are becoming cabinet's heavy companies now. So now in a way that our market may see earnings growth, that's actually not too bad. One of the things that people have been concerned about, there's two sort of outstanding obvious in your face, headwinds, for the ASX. All things been equal. Who knows, of course, the international markets. And if we wake up in the morning and Wall Street has a 10% correction, well, we are going to follow that for sure, absolutely probably exceeded history would suggest. So let's put that on the table. But as we stand, and as you say, 12 months is a long time. So we're talking over 12 month period that we could do this double digit. But you mentioned one thing, first of all, already, which is a prospect of rising rates. So the consensus is that we're going to have rising rates. Now that is surely going to work against sentiment in the market. And the second thing that I just alluded to at the start is, our great kind of cushion has always been dividends, the dividend yields, which was about four and a half percent. But it's actually sliding and sliding is now about three and a half percent. So how do you bake in those two factors, JB? That's a really good question. I think it's very true. First of all, with the interest rate is very interesting. The expectations for rate rise has changed very rapidly, literally within the last few weeks of December that market started expecting a rate rise in February, rate rise in May. And instead of rate cuts previously. So now, my view is that because the market is very fast in pricing and expectations, which economists seem to have moved together, I do think that what's being priced in, which we saw a lot of selling in those retailers, is now actually perhaps way too pessimistic. I view that we're not getting a rate rise in February. But even May is very skeptical because some of the data that's coming through. Normally, for RBA, they call for the board, the key thing is to do nothing. Usually, it's the first step. And then it takes a really high hurdle to move from rate cut to suddenly rate rise. So that is going to be very negative. So for me, it's that I don't think it's coming in the first half of the year. Yes, you'll be negative when it does come latter part of the year. And that's assuming inflation stays very strong. We only just really have a one data point in September quarter that was stronger than expected. So we're just still too early to call, yes, it is negative for the share market. But right now, market is pricing in quite a lot of rate rise already. So from here on, you know, in a way that we won't be surprised. So I think it's been priced in at least one rise for this year. And I think if anything, timing could be extended out. So that if anything, that's kind of on the positive front for the market valuation. Before you talk about dividend yield, that's really interesting. So your theory to some extent is that the selloff in the run up to Christmas was actually because of the change of sentiment about rates. And the market and the analysts and the journalists are all running wear ahead of themselves in terms of how quickly this would and the RBA would never be seen to flip flop quite so dramatically. Is that basically what where you're coming from? Absolutely. I think the pricing is essentially being in. And now we actually, if you've seen some of the rate discretionary sector, they start up performing a little bit better just in the last few weeks because of probability for rate rise. So it's already moving back from, you know, something like 80% in February now down to 25. So, you know, just the market's got to wear ahead of themselves. But consumer sentiment is pretty poor, isn't it? Yeah, I think so. I think consumer, the actual consumer sector for this year will be a bit challenged because we heard that Christmas was okay. You know, November was strong, but the challenge is there's a lot of discounting. And because of that headlight, what's been discussed in the media, you know, rate rise, rate hike, consumer just don't spend. And on top of that, we also had the tragedy at Bondai shooting, you know, here in New South Wales, that has really caused a lot of traffic to disappear from shopping centers and others. You know, this has happened previously, any of those similar sort of events that, you know, consumers just don't feel they want to be shopping, they want to, yeah, they don't want to spend. So we definitely seen that pullback. Discounting is very heavy at the moment where we have a couple retailers came out already downgraded not on the revenue from but more so on the on the market because they have to discount. And I do think that will become a theme for this year because retailers are sitting at very big margins for the last couple of years because things been good, you know, they do have to give some of that back this year. Okay. And on the dividend yield, so the point we were making is, well, that cushion is fading for Australian stocks, that the ability that you could always say, well, you're going to get 4.5% whatever happens, but you're only going to get 3.5% now, that puts more pressure on the stocks to grow, doesn't it? In a way. So I think a part of the reason the dividend has been steadily falling is one is that, you know, clearly our banks are already sort of peaked in terms of their earnings. So it's not growing in terms of dividend. And two is the last few years that our resources company, which normally pay a big dividend, has been really tough. And but we just started seeing those commodity prices turning around significantly. If you look at just take BHP or real as an example, both of them are sitting there with 30% earnings upgrade to come in this reporting season because of how much commodity prices moved. Just this monitor, the commodity prices are up double digit. So that means these companies normally pay out quite a lot of dividend. And that should see the dividend improve for this year, but definitely they will put pressure on, you know, companies because Australian investor always demand high dividends. So do you think the big miners, the mining sector could actually revive the dividend yield across the market? That it's not a structure decline? I think they will pay more, but one of my concerns for the big miners at the moment is they making so much cash flow at the moment, almost like a windfall. And they historically have been very bad in paying out shareholder and then fall down to the cash. Then normally it would like to go out and buy things to grow. You know, management is sitting around the table going, how do we grow in next year? And we're already started seeing a bit of that. So the challenge is that hopefully they don't go out and sell his spend all the money. But I think they will be a bit disciplined because shareholder will punish the sort of now so they're quite quickly. Okay, very interesting. Now folks, what we're going to do is we're going to deep dive now. We're going to go have a look at first of all. And I think this is going to be very interesting. We're going to look at the miners. We're going to look at the mining shares of what risks and opportunities you have in front of you. And as JB has said, it is red hot and it is red hot. I can't think of a time. I think you'd have to go back nearly 20 years, 204 to 207 to see this sort of momentum in the big miners. We'll be back in a moment. Hello, welcome back to the Australian's money puzzle podcast. Okay, this is the second of our outlook shows for 2026, these are always very popular. And if you can, I recommend you actually listen to them in sequence because you'll really get a broad picture for investing in the year ahead and it is very useful. You know, one of the secrets of investing is not what you think is going to happen. It's knowing what everyone else is thinking is going to happen. And this is what these shows are about. They do really give you a guide if you use them in that fashion. My guest today is Jan Behler of 10 Cap. 10 Cap is a 1.5 billion dollar fund. It is an active manager. It is long short, which is very interesting. That is, they have the ability to short should they wish to do so. It started. Basically, it has a net return ruffling of about 11.2% since its inception. It's against the ASX 200 of 8.9% over the same period of time. And if you want to know more about my guest today, we've had a show that was very popular that Julianne Sprig did with JB earlier in the year, which is called Secrets of 1.5 billion investor. Have a look at that. If you want to know more about her today, I just want to concentrate on what she knows about the market and what she's thinking. Okay. Now, the miners. Okay. Three, BHP, Rio and Fortescue. As you say, they've been somewhat dormant, but boy, they were kicking at the end of last year. It takes a hell of a lot to lift those stocks. They're up about 25% so far in a 12-month period that is BHP and Rio. And when they deliver dividends, they deliver gigantic dividends, don't they? They just blow out of that. They blow the banks out of the water when they're at the top of the cycle. So where do you think we are with these big miners just now? Is there more to come or where are they in their own cycle because they are notoriously cyclical? Maybe absolutely. So certainly, miners are not what you buy and hold and your bottom draw sort of thing. Look at them. They are still looking at having a pretty good year, but it really depends on what type of commodity it is. So far, if our commodity outlook is looking at the support, you know, the structural names such as copper will suddenly, in some cases, gold and maybe even aluminium has some of the structural support. So in terms of copper, you know, it's electrification, then the demand globally demand for copper has really increased. And then the supply has just hasn't been there. And we all know that's going to create price dislocation and we are seeing copper going to have another new strong yet because there's just no supply. With it, iron ore is a bit harder because a bit consumer of iron ore is actually China. And China hasn't really revived that much. It's just not doing any worse. So China is steady and then we're looking at globally the demand that is actually picking up a little bit. So I think all these commodities are well supported. So our miners probably still another good year, you know, probably not going to see that 20, 30% range for the large miners, particularly because we are now already seeing a lot of earnings upgrade coming through in February this year, we're going to see something like 20, 30% earnings upgrade for companies for these large miners. More test queue, if you like, actually they're looking at even bigger upgrades. So, you know, so quite a lot of earnings upgrade, big dividend to come through for them. You know, this reporting season, and I think next reporting season, August, we're going to see an even larger name. But then first of all, we really have to see whether globally, you know, where we stand in terms of the global performance, but certainly first half, they're going to continue to do pretty well. It sounds to me like you're saying that to some extent it's priced in the big three, but there is such a huge mining sector and we can look further down the line at what is available out there. So if Copper is like this year's thing, right, this year's hot metal, so to speak, where could we enter as an investor, what sort of stocks are you looking at beyond those big three? And Fortescue isn't even in the game here, is it really it's iron ore almost, and Rio with very heavily iron ore, BHP is more diversified, but beyond those big three, what's the next layer of stocks? And let's start talking about individual stocks. Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of interesting names. So in terms of Copper, you want to play pure play. Slightly larger one is the Sanfire. It has a, you know, has a really good copper exposure, but Sanfire is very expensive. There you go, even smaller. The next one you can look at is capstone. It's dual listed in Canada and then also, you know, in Australia, it's got a really good production growth as well, because one of the thing about mine is that not only commodities you get a right, you need to buy company as you grow these production and also can benefit from high prices right now. So I think capstone is a really good one to look at. What's also interesting is though, if you look at the copper price that's gone really well, there is the next derivative. So when usually globally, where copper price got really high, there's some sectors. They start moving into some substituting effect. So instead of copper, you might be able to use aluminium. So if you look at the prices of aluminium, normally they trace copper. And so far, the moment aluminium actually underperform copper. Now I'm not a mining specialist, but, you know, if you look at what that means is that potentially with strong copper, aluminium will have its day in the sun. So there's like a, like a reliable ratio, like LPG to oil or whatever. Very reliable ratio. That's right. Who are the players in that space? Yeah. So the easiest, purest play is Alcoa. And clearly, the share price actually gone incredibly well. And that's again, dual listed, it's not just pure here. And then, you know, obviously, it's and it's for a cousin, which has had many production issues, which is South 32. Now, be mindful, mining companies, you do really need to know what's happening in terms of mine production. South 32 has had a lot of issues. It's one of those companies, people always say you buy it before the result or after the result, but not during the result, because they always disappoint. So just be mindful when you move away from the large cap, the smaller ones, they generally have issues and you just got to do the whole work, be very careful with those things. Can I ask you, when your own fund, beyond the big three BHP Rio and Fortescue, what would appear if I was looking at your fund and looking at the biggest holdings? Sure. So aside from the larger, so larger ones, we actually have more BHP than the Rio, because, you know, we can go through it later on. We have that we have the capsule, we have the semi, we have the Alcoa as well, a little bit of South 32 small position, because a little bit, you know, need to be careful with those stocks. Operational risk, as they call it. Operational risk, it's very large, that's right. It's really there for, you know, for a period where you've seen that aluminium price catch up. And also, one thing we haven't talked about is the gold set, the gold set. I'm going to, oh, worry, don't, I don't think I have, oh, we're going to do it. Let's do it, let's do it. Just before we do it, folks, something that JB has pointed out. And it's so true. And it's just extraordinary. Don't for one moment think that because a company owns a gold mine and gold is rising at its fastest pace since the 1980s, don't for one moment think they can't blow it. They can blow it every time. It doesn't matter. They can be sitting on a gold mine, so to speak, with the most marvelous external macro conditions. And unbelievably, they can blow it. And one of the things we, in this market, I think people are regret that new Chris, which was our biggest gold mine, or was sold back in 2023 to new mod, and it was a giveaway. And it was an exquisitely time purchased by new mod and a terrible loss for Australia. But what people forget is that new Chris was the greatest disappointer on operational risk. Talk about things going wrong every time. So with that preamble, Jim Bay, a couple of things, let's set the ground here. Gold is running an extraordinary run, and it is entirely understandable and rational because of the mounting risks in world economy, primarily in the US, primarily after the back of the Trump administration's behavior. Now, on that basis, I think we can be confident that it will keep going. Gold is up about, very roughly, up about 60% in the last 12 months. Gold miners, who tend to lag, gold itself for commodity, they are up. That is our own ASX gold sector. It's up about 140% twice as fast as gold. So we can put it on the table. There's enormous opportunity. And I'm still, it's excellent opportunity left for investors in gold stocks. Where do we start? You're absolutely right. I think where do we start? So with the gold companies and, you know, one reason for why gold companies always lag the gold prices. First of all, gold prices can be affected by so many things. And often it trends in directions that we don't expect. Now, so with the, so when people forecast gold equities prices, people don't expect the current spot. So most of the gold companies, you know, when Alice do their valuation, it assumes it's going to fall. It's be like other commodities as well. And at the same time, most of the larger gold companies, they actually are contracted. All their volumes has been contracted with their customers. So they don't actually get the highest price until they give you. Yeah, they're working on long-term contracts, which don't necessarily reflect the red heart lift in gold. Okay. That's right. That's right. And so that's the second reason. Now, the last reason of why it's always lag is because gold companies, if you do a risk estimate. So we have a model. We look at all the companies risk. They have volatile. They are relative to share market. Gold is four times the volatility. Gold shares. Gold, gold equities. They're very volatile. The reason being is that most of the gold companies always need to raise money to dig out all the gold because gold is hard to dig out. You have a lot of operational risks. So they always come equity raising, particularly smaller names. So when the market, so often when the market goes through three, four, when people worry about the world, the gold price will go up, but gold shares go equity will fall a lot because people think, oh, they can't raise money anymore. They can't dig those gold out. So it is very interesting dynamic. So it's not exactly like your gold bars, it actually works as a very extreme volatility measure of the market, but normally market in the normal condition, they will go out gradually over the gold prices. So these are the key reason why they don't, they always get cheaper. But I do think the gold sector is really interesting because in the last four months, we actually have gone to a lot of smaller gold companies. So when we talk about the big gold company, you know, they have contracts and everything taking a long time to benefit from the thing. And some of the bigger ones we both know, you know, particularly Northern South has had a lot of production issues. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Weather and everything else. And most of the time, they're pretty good in telling us about it. It's just that market don't remember. So by the time they, the market don't adjust their number until suddenly, they report. And this is what we told you. And then the market can put into their numbers because they got to carry it away with high prices. So we move into some of the mid, mid caps or smaller names. And they are the one that actually has been doing really well. Not only the growing production, they actually don't have long total contracts. So they just, they started benefiting much higher prices and get all these cash flow. That's why you see them doing so much better than the larger names. So, you know, so the names we see are the likes of catalysts and the names of Genesis, Capricorn. They all doing really well. Now, they're all actually gradually, you know, going from small cap, small ordinary index into larger index, because they're actually benefiting so much more than the larger, like the larger star. Right. 14 of the top 20 performers last year were gold miners. That's right. That's what it means. That is extraordinary. Do you think we have a similar reflection in this 2026? I think it will be harder, but of course, look, if the goal continued with the way Trump operates, the world is still very uncertain, there is a possibility, but I think harshly for that gold re-wraith is a struggle for many years. The part of the re-wraith is that market recognized your cryptocurrency is not the true diversification from the money, from the, you know, over stimulus, you know, all these world wash with money. So, you know, because that has become quite a problem towards the end of the year. So now that gold, you see just investors moving back into gold. At the same time, you see all the central banks buying gold, China, India, emerging markets. They're not, well, they might be buying some cryptocurrency, but it's just, it's the gold has now restored its title as the electoral value. That's very interesting, and I certainly, I actually did something a few prior to Christmas on this. Certainly, for my point of view, digital gold, it's over really. The story about whether crypto is digital gold, it's not gold as gold. I want to ask you two questions. They're not easy questions. They're relating to gold. One is on the gold rally. I don't know if you were a bull or a bear on gold, but I wonder one thing. If the whole thing about gold is that it was an uncorrelated asset, and in theory, it went down when markets went up, then what's going on? Because markets are going up and gold is going up. And so, what does that mean? I mean, if, what does it mean? It does, it's becoming, I don't know, it's becoming correlated sufficiently that, mathematically, that the analysts are convinced. But does that concern you? In a way, because it's, like you said, it's becoming very correlated, right? So, it's positive correlated. So, it's been like the bond and equity when they move together, which is these days. It's almost like reduces its effect as diversification. I think what with gold is a bit different at the moment. It's, that's why it kind of feels, okay, it's going higher, you know, it's harder to see it down from here. Now, but, the gold is a little bit different. I do think that investors or institutions or countries around the world, there is so much demand. They realize how much under on the, of the gold it is. So, there is this rush to buy them. So, it's actually demand for, you know, from real demise, not actually more, you know, sort of financial, you know, sort of structuring demise. It's actually different countries positioning for whatever reason, a real demand for this asset class. So, I think it's well-supported, so it still is enough support to support that. And given, you know, crypto is a little bit unsure of where it stands at the moment. I think it that's, yeah, at least for next 12 months, you think this price is well-supported. You know, very hard to see a collapse particularly given the Trump administration what's happening. Yeah. I suppose the factors that have driven it to this point remain very much in place, if not, if not enhanced really. Okay. Since you mentioned about being under owned, there is, there is speculation how hard to prove this at the big super funds, big Australian super funds are way behind on gold allocation. And if they are, then that's another sort of demand that would come through from that under ownership. Okay. Short break folks, back in the moment, we're going to talk about what you might avoid. Hello. Welcome back to the Australian's Money Puzzle Podcast. James Kirby here talking to Jun Beilu of 10 Cap regular on the show. Perhaps a much better known as a stock picker now, then we started talking to her earlier and I'm sure that will continue in this year. She's great to talk to and I think particularly four fund managers. She's talks in detail and takes a stand. And there's nothing more frustrating than I can tell you on a podcast show than someone who's humming and hoeing and beating around the bush. Not everything works for you. You always have, I mean, as a stock picker, it's hard, right, every year something goes right, something goes wrong. I mean, most things go right. I mean, I think the last time we talked to one that the one that I thought had let you down was Ramsey. Maybe they're turning a bit now. This time round, premier investments, how do you, that didn't work out for you? Do you just say that's like doing karate? You do karate every now and again, a punch lands and you just keep going. Is that your approach or what is your approach? You know, when we look at the company, we have a thesis. You know, what is expected to return? What are some of the catalysts? And then when the catalysts come along, we look at it and say, look, it, that's just way too tough. And so in the case of Ramsey, I remember many years ago, you know, it was a case where we waiting for the reopening trade, right? I remember when the, you know, post COVID had a lot of issues. We waited for people to finally start using, you know, because of doctors and the like. Now we are seeing it now, but it two more years than expected. And they had all these extra inflation in terms of nursing staff and others. That's been very tricky. So, you know, but Ramsey, to be honest, is actually now finally looking a little bit better. We know health scopes, go through these challenges, but the market seems to be turning. We'll do double digit return. So this is what we see. We want to see our thesis. We're constantly testing our thesis to say if it's still intact, if it's perhaps the money should be allocated elsewhere. So it's kind of all we, all we always look at. In the case of the retailers, yet last year was looking as a good year to start with, that with the rate cuts, you know, with the, you know, many rate cuts on the car that's coming through with the consumer not doing too badly, you know, things were looking pretty good. However, the challenge is now that we just, you know, that we all see now, are we getting a rate cuts? Probably not. Probably the rate is more likely to stay on hold for some time. And then in the environment, also where consumers fit more picky and not collapsing, just a little bit more picky, there might be a little bit of challenges for some of those companies in that sector. Okay. So, looking at stocks that may let you down, they were so good for so long and Cumbank obviously was, I've been talking to these people all week about this about Cumbank. And there's almost like a mystery as to just how it got to the sort of extraordinary levels that it get to. And when it had a valuation, and when it had an intrinsic value of allegedly a hundred bucks or so, and it was trading at a hundred and eighty or whatever, of course it couldn't hold up. So, the question this year, with banks, we have the four banks now sitting with, you know, possible rate rises, possible soft consumer sentiment, struggling with the fact that they were clearly overvalued in 2025. And they are the big sector that often we would be talking half the show on, but we'll take it, I don't know if you agree, but I will take it that the best we can expect from the banks would be a sort of market average return. What's your view? I think my view is that it probably will be market average or a little bit less in terms of risk. And the return delivered from the banks will be quite, you know, different. So within the banks, you know, who's going to outperform, and then the disparity will be still quite large compared to last year. So that will be quite large. And look, I do think the banks will be, you know, in terms of performance will be a whole lot worse than, you know, the likes of resources and a few other sectors, just because they don't have earnings worth. And then previously their earnings upgrade was because people were expecting very bad back their cycle. And now all the expectation has been re-rated. So people don't expect a cycle, so there's no earnings upgrade to come through. And there's not much earnings growth. And then now it's all about cost out. So revenue environment benign, you know, it's really just about cost out. Then who can do the cost out? So we saw ANZ already talk about cost out. I think it's got a little more room to go, you know, West back potentially a bit more. And CBA is the one that doesn't, you know, never really does cost out. They invest. So, you know, that's the one I think will be probably struggle more, you know, for the next four months, because they're not going down the path where they will control good costs. And they will probably want to invest ahead of their peers. OK, so, so banks as a sector, the big four, you say maybe average or less than average. And when we know we have, when we're talking about a very good year, let's put that on the table folks. And I suppose part of the message here is always be diversified. So banks not looking grace ordinary at best with some diversity within the four after that. I think we're going to start, we're going to get random here folks. OK, I'm going to just, I'm just going to spray JB with all sorts of questions that you probably have in your mind. So let's go. CSL extraordinary disappointment. This great stock wants the biggest stock in Australia. Can you believe this? Bigger than CBA, bigger than BHP. No, what has happened? It's down 35 percent, but it's got an aura of about 16 percent, which is magnificent. What do you think's going to happen to it this year? I think by the end of the year, the share price should be higher, but it will be tail of two hearts again, you know, because the reason it's down so much is because it's perpetual disappointment. It's disappointed market again and again last year, I think it was something like two, three downgrades. Now, the risk is that one more, that's one more downgrade, look, the operating environment is still very tough. Sounds like the core business has lost, really lost, you know, lost its structural worth driver now. You know, the IG business seems to be oversupply. That's why the competition has been severe, they're losing share, and they said they don't want to compete on price, but clearly the market is very competitive. So that's tough. We're not seeing that turning around yet. And then the other product category, you know, we've seen the album is doing really poorly in China. That's another headwind come through flu is not great, but I think that's in people's numbers now. So I think they're six months, they're still numbers to be nudged down, but look, it is cheaper compared to what it was. It would never go back to the heydays because it's not a growth structural grower now, because it doesn't have a big pipeline to grow it, but cyclically should do better. Less than 20 times, it is cheaper for what it was. So I think second half of the year, once the earnings really cleared through a weekend, you know, confidently say it will grow from here, it will definitely issued out before. You're not exactly calling it all the way back. Right. Okay. Very interesting. I had no idea what you're going to tell me on that one. Okay. That's CSL. Let's take a look at and talking about potential areas that may not thrill, shall we say, in the year ahead. Things that might let you down. Things of where there are distinct risks. Tell me if I'm, I mean, tell me what you think if there's any area I'm guessing here. Where are we standing on? For instance, REITs and the big, if we have rising interest rate environment, then the textbook would say, keep away from REITs, that is a property trust. Where are you on that? Property trust. I, you're right. They underperform leading up to the rate rise and, and then you're probably looking at again, the second half names. I think with the REITs, they will do okay for the first part of the year. Earning is still pretty strong. Now, this is as a sector, really bad, but this is as a sector, because the earnings just started turning. All of them has been come upgrades retail property is doing really well. They all probably have earnings upgraded, so your center group, your vicinity, that's doing pretty well. Even some of the office space, which, you know, child of horse do it, is not too bad. Dexas is a different story. That's just going to be tough. And then the residential space is actually doing pretty good. You know, we like the retirement, some of the retirement living space where, you know, the recent listing of gem life is doing very well. So we kind of prefer company that more have the self-help, right? So they are building all these properties in the area highly desirable. You know they're going to do very good earnings growth, regardless, you know, whether they might be a bit of macro pressure. So I think the reason we do care, but it's more a neutral stance for the rest of the year. Because once the rate, they usually start underperforming as a sector, you know, when they don't have a proper growth for the company itself, they tend to underperform five months leading up to the first rate hike. So if we say the end of the year is rate hike, so second half of the year, that's pretty much eat, all the rebates is pretty much done. So that's how it is. It's more neutral. I think the housing is still looking okay, but it's, you know, it's the other, yeah, it's the other space. I wanted to ask you something there, Goodman, being in theory a property trust, but in practice priced as an AI play with an extraordinarily ambitious agenda, one would naturally be skeptical, except for the fact that Greg Goodman has an impeccable record. Through decades of getting it right in the end, again and again, are you comfortable with the price that's at now? I am. I hold Goodman. I think it's an incredible company. And I think what they're doing, there isn't disclaimer coming. I think what they're doing is great because they repurposing a lot of their industrial property, right? And then just keep them another leg of growth and you're delivering double degree return is great, you know, into the data center and the like, it's great. Now, I do have, but rather saying, you know, Russia put all your eggs and buy lots of good milk. I'm a little bit skeptical and, you know, unsure about this whole data center space, whether there will be enough return to be generated in five years time, right? So, you know, because there's hyper scalers putting so much money into the data center and the valuation going through the roof, we just don't know who's going to be the ultimate buyer, like say, in 10 years, who's going to buy them? And then whether there'll be enough technology, if the data center is still going to be in the current form, so maybe there's no terminal value for those. And Goodman, instead of just buying a seller, they want to hold it because normally with their other industrial property, that's what they do. So they will manage, they will put them into a fund and the fund will manage it. So they will be the owner of these properties. So that it's a little bit challenging for me to see ultimate value of data center. But for Goodman, I do think they underperformed the sector enormously last year. You know, I think it does look pretty good from the industrial perspective and the money they can make right now from the service center. Do you say Goodman underperformed the sector last year? Yeah, and it is. So the sector is down. If you compare Goodman and China for, I think something like 30% or more difference. Now, obviously, the year before Goodman did really well because it's a standard center. But it's just it doesn't apply. There's a bit of catch up to do and industrial property still do pretty well. Demand is strong. And they, meanwhile, they're making good profit out of those making building those data centers. So, you know, so I think it's it's something that I do like, I think for the time being, it's good. But I'm still working out this whole data center center. Because our portfolio can hold it and we can show other companies. So, you know, we can take out that data center uncertainty. I certainly tune into your notion, your concept that the technology itself could change. And then, you know, maybe data centers, as we know them, would not look anything like data centers that have been planned to be built right now that are getting such valuations. One last thing. And it's kind of a reflection really of our market and it's absence of tech and AI that we leave it to last because there isn't really a part, I mean, Goodman has become a proxy AI play in the blue chip space or at least the top of the market. And within the market, there is very little else. Next DC has been, seems to be a very disappointing company in many ways, is what do you think of next DC and do you, in recent times, has been disappointing? Do you see any AI play within the ASX? I think, first of all, next DC, again, it comes to, I think it's done very well. If you want to have exposure to data center, it's just one of all the contracts and everything it's great. My thing is, again, I'm just not sure about ultimate value of those data centers. I don't know if I'm building it today in five years, you know, who's going to be the next person to buy those assets, you know, it's going to be harder to see. And then when I talk about technology, go change, you know, what if there's a breakthrough that you can have data center in the middle of the far, like in the middle of the data center in your basement? I think it's just really, I don't know, because the technology changes so far. So, that's the thing. So, I like it as a data center exposure, but I just not sure if I want that. I seem to do exposure at the moment. Goodman gives me a quasi, still got other assets in there, sort of exposure. In terms of the AI play and everything, I really think this is the year where you actually rather than just AI exposure, it's the company that benefit. From the AI, you know, it's the cost out. It's the sector, for example, you know, what is the sector that has a highest labor cost, you know, whether it's healthcare, whether it's banks, there's a lot of cost efficiency coming through. You know, we're hearing chatters overseas, overseas now, you know, people talking about overseas banks, you know, one of the J.P. Morgan Stanley, chief e-commerce said that they think the banks is a gross stock of the future, because there's so much cost that can come through with the AI efficiency. So I think this is a year people would distinguish on, also when they're in loser, people still trying to work it out of the AI, the development of the AI rather than just go to the physical AI exposure. You know, I would actually say some of the company tech companies, they sold out recently, it potentially is the benefit, the beneficiary of those AI, because they, you know, they have big database RAA, for example, big database, the proprietary database, you know, they actually working with some of the AI model, you know, so that is the beneficiary. And the market at the moment is selling all tech, not sure what it is. And then just all buy just direct to exposure. So for me, it's the companies that will benefit. And then there's a lot, I think companies will start talking about it in the next six months. So hard one, but just to wrap, we're going to say at the start, a stock you really like, a stock you think you could avoid. Top your head. Yeah. So the things that the stock are with avoid, it's probably example on Web service stage. I'm a little bit worried. One is it's expensive and also we heading into a somewhat slow down sort of environment, lots of expectations, ownership, price pool and just a little bit of causes on that front. I think a stock alike is actually, you know, what, fly center. Yeah. Because of the companies down there, look, it's got through challenges and everything. Then we had the war last year. So now it's heading into environment where, you know, the travel is normalizing. I straight face it. Australia's we love to travel overseas. So, you know, demand environment is pretty not too bad. And then you're cycling some really weak, so that means your earning growth will come through at the same time, corporate travel, the problem with corporate travel and it's going through review of some of the, you know, dodgy accounting and the like has now created, you know, opportunity for other corporate travel service provider like fly center in a way that, you know, all the large companies that we speak to, they all now revising their corporate travel contracts. So, you know, I think the next six month road for travel or fly center is going to be normal. Really interesting. I'm entirely convinced by both those calls, might I say, especially the travel one. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you've got two extraordinary stories there. One obviously, the extraordinary story of corporate travel being so bad that they left it. They've just basically left a big gap in the market, haven't they? And every corporate and every government department is going to have to review terrific. All right. Thank you very much for being on the show. Always great. We'll talk to you again during the year. I hope. But thank you for today. Thank you so much for having me and best of luck with 2026. Thank you. That was June Bayloo of 10 Cap folks terrific to talk to us always. So now you've got it. Okay. You've got Mark Jokum of global X ETFs who talked about the global markets. Then we talked specifically today about Australian share opportunities stock picks. Next week we're going to talk about property opportunities in 2026 and we're going to wrap it up. We'll Hamilton at the end of next week. Talk to you soon.