Top-5 Chemist UNLOADS on MKUltra, Blood Lines & the AI Bubble | Dave Collum

[MUSIC] >> World's burn in Dave column. What's happening out here? >> Well, my wife actually listened to your Bret Weinstein podcast. >> Weinstein? >> Weinstein, that's right. >> Weinstein, Weinstein, right? >> That goes from like genius to honest. >> She loved him too. She's not a big podcaster, but I sent it to her and to my son. And she watched it and she really loved it. Part of the reason I did, because he conveys a lot of ideas that I try to convey to her, but he does it in a way that's coherent. >> Yes, he is a brilliant man. I listened to him for a lot of years, but then you talk to him in person, you're like, god damn, wow. >> I know, I know, I adore the guy. I'm openly public, it's a bromance for me. >> Well, I heard you're going to be doing something with him soon, right? >> It's being set up. If it fails to get set up, I'm going to find a way to get one, another one set up. >> Yeah, I'll connect him with you. >> Well, I'm connected with him. I don't have a podcast, so I get podcasters to do it. >> That's right. >> You're like the goaded podcasters. >> Yeah, I'm like the Ed McMahon of other podcasts. >> That's right. How does it? >> Organic chemistry professor from Cornell talk about all the shit that you do all the time. And respectfully also, because you're still teaching it all the time up there. You're talking about everything except chemistry as well. You seem to have a firm grasp on a lot of things. Were you just always eclectic? >> I think I was. So as a kid, I was kind of rogue. Typical boy actually, where, you know, boys are really retarded, right? There we go. Put one in the swear jar. Compare to the girls that's staggering. And so I can remember my grades all the way back to first grade. They were mediocre. So I don't know, I can remember them, but I can. Around sixth grade, I woke up and then fell back asleep in middle school when I discovered pod. And then in high school, I started to get serious. But I graduated okay, but I was nothing special. My dad once said to me, said, I knew you were smart enough to go to college. But I didn't expect what I got out of you. What's your dad do? He's a contractor. He built buildings and buildings with an expertise, personal expertise and fireproofing. What did I talk to him about? That's a trick question. >> I'm afraid to answer is too early in the morning. >> Yeah, I know. And he gave the right answer though. He said, I don't see it. And so I went to Cornell, would you say how do you get there? Well, I didn't know how I got there. Even though I was a gymnast, I wasn't good enough to get really good. >> You were a gymnast. >> Yeah, I was pretty fucked up too. So I started in gymnastics. I started in gymnastics when I was little. So I was like bottom two kids in the class, size wise. And I was pretty good. And then towards the end of high school, I grew like a weed. So you look up and there's an extra inch hanging off a limb. And you go, what the hell do I do with that? Right? So I did it for two years at Cornell. But school was too preoccupying. I don't know if you ever did a college sport. I asked you what your sports were in our podcast. >> My buddies, all my best friends in college were on the football team there. And I saw that close up. That was a 60 hour a week job. >> And so when I was running graduate admissions for chemistry, if I saw an athlete, I took him right away, right away. >> Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. >> But it was just too distracting. And so I gave that up. I tried out for the golf team. But that was another oddly eclectic move. Because I hadn't played since I was 12. And then I went out to the golf course when I was orientation week freshman year. And I hadn't played since I was 12. But I'd gotten big. And as a gymnast, I not only had strong shoulders, but I had powerful shoulders. But I had flexible shoulders. And I had a natural swing. I had a good natural swing. And good hip, woman and stuff. And some guy says, you want to play? And I said, you don't want to be in the course of me today. And he said, no, let's just play. And that turns out to smack in the ball. I mean smack in the ball. I was about 10 years past. He ended up being capped into the golf team. >> That's pretty good. >> We got done it since 12. >> Right. Well, natural swing will do that, right? So he gets to the end of the round. He says, you really got to take up golf again. So I did. That's not, by the way, it was impressive. It was a friend of mine in high school who quit swimming at 12. Took it back up in college at Florida state and took 10th in the NCAAs. That's very impressive. >> That's really impressive. So in any event, for a couple of years, I crashed course golf, and I got my hand to cap down pretty good. But I tried out for the Cornell team, but my scores went to shit as soon as the class has started. So I said, okay, that's not for me. >> Were you majoring in chemistry specifically? >> No, actually, I was a bio major. I was pre-vet. >> Pre-vet? >> Yeah. And then I realized I wasn't going to get into vets. You only tell me, I ever made a calculated decision that I would fail, and therefore don't do it. I never did that. But my first year, I got a 296305 GPA. And vets school is such a low probability admission. I said, look, I can take all these random courses on big animals and shit. Not get into vets school and wish I'd redone the whole goddamn program. I slid right over to pre-meds and said, good enough, worked in a hospital on summer stuff like that. And I used to root around the carcass. I worked for pathologists, so we did a lot of auto-opsies and stuff. One semester non-majors are going to chemistry course because I really thought I'd sock. I said, get it done. Just get it out there, work your ass off, find a way to get a decent grade. And I loved it. And I was fishing around trying to figure out where do I go from here. I love we're going to chemistry, but I got this non-major course. Just one semester. Why'd you love it? I don't know. I don't know. I just, I think our brains are wired, you know, mathematicians are wired different than chemists are wired different than biologists. It's a complexity issue. I think there's a certain level of resolution that you like. And for me, I got to chemistry is the right level of complexity and science. So then I did some weird stuff like I joined a research group, which was lucky to get into. I just talked my way in, and then I was. I didn't know enough organic chemistry, so I didn't know of chemistry. So I took what's called physical chemistry, but I didn't have any calculus. And it's kind of chemical physics, physical chemistry, you know, and it had calculus in it. And it was all engineers and I didn't have calculus. So that was a ride. Funny-ass story. I got to drop a prelim, so I said, "Fuck it, I got another course I want to do better." And so I just bagged the whole subject matter. I took the test anyways and got bottom grade out of 150 kids, but I didn't care because I was going to drop it. The topic was kinetics. I became a kineticist. I literally got the lowest grade. Well, that I didn't like, I didn't study it. I just said, "I've got better things to do. I'm going to drop this prelim because I like to drop one." And what does a kineticist do? You study how the chemistry is a function of time. And so you watch the behavior. And if you monitor chemistry is a function of time, then you learn about what's going on in there. Can you bring that back into English chemistry as a function? Well, so you start a reaction. You figure out how to follow the starting material by some sort of technical process. And then you watch the starting material go away and the formation of the product. And from that, the changes in how that occurs. You can learn about what's actually causing the chemistry to occur. So I obviously was not prepared for that. Then I became one. I would argue I'm an organic chemistry. I'm going to say top five. I would say I'm being probably two generous. I can't name another person who I would want to trade programs with. So I still don't know math. You don't need to know math. As I've told many people, you don't need to know math. You only need to know mathematicians. I says like sex, if you're trying to do it, it's already been done before. If it hasn't, you shouldn't be doing it. So I'd occasionally find some colleagues and say how the fuck do we do this? And I've sent my students to the department. So I got really good at guerrilla warfare and learning on the fly. The thing that was ultimately, so in any event, so I took the PCAM. And then I took a gradual level organic course. The second semester gradual level organic course. So from non-major right over the top of the first semester grade, of course, to the second. First exam, I got 28 below the mean. I didn't choke, that's all I had. I loved the course, but that's all I had. And then the second test. I actually had to take in the professor's office 'cause of a conflict. And I handed to him, and he says, "What do you think?" And I said, "I was easy." And he flinched. He physically recoiled 'cause the class retarded. Just said this test is easy. And I got the second highest grade in the class. So that, then I lit up. Then the athlete and me kicked in, right? That's like, I can beat these guys. So I took three more grad course. So I went to grad school at Columbia that had, by far, the best organic chemistry division. I would argue ever assembled. I mean, it was just truly extraordinary. - Why do you say that? - Well, they just had rock stars. Just six unbelievably talented organic chemists. Just this, the weakest guy in the six man division was a Nobel Prize wannabe. I mean, he was really that good. But he was quirky as shit. The others were much more functional. And I thought I was gonna flunk out. They made me do, you're gonna love this. They made me take graduate level physics. Now, the lack of calculus really kicked in when it came to graduate level physics, right? So at one point, he says, "Hint used vessel functions, which I didn't know what a vessel function was." And I was so tempted to say, "Why tell us?" He just gave the answer away. So I got a D in that. And I thought I was gonna get kicked out of grad school. I got a letter from the chair saying, "We're generally pleased with your progress, but your record's a little uneven." I got you think. Part of it was they wouldn't let me take any organic because I had so much. So then I went to work for a famous guy to get into the, to get into academia. I was, I was do or die. I was like, I'm going to Harvard or Boston. Harvard was a metaphor. I didn't really wanna go to Harvard, but you get the idea. Yeah. And I joined a group of a brand new assistant professor. And I spotted his talent. I'm taking credit for that. I saw something in this guy. I said, "I've seen assistant professors. This guy's different." By the end of my second year, he was fielding offers, senior offers, which means so he was just starting with me. Senior offers as in big salary, big chunk of money, come join us at Stanford Harvard and Caltech. And I was getting unsolicited job interviews. The end of my second year. And I'm going holy shit. And so I went, I went on an interview. And so I ended up getting my degree in two and a half years, a little over two and a half years. I wanna give a huge shout out to all my business owners out there. 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Was that fast or no? - Well, typically it takes five. - Wow. - Then typically you go to a two-year postdoc and then you go to your job and I just went straight from two and a half to my job. - Whoa. - So it was fast. Probably broke a record, probably hold some record there. But it wasn't because I had some gift. It was like the U.S. beating the Russians and hockey. So it was all grit. - Yeah. - And they could play him 100 times and lose 99. - But you're going to win that one. - But I won the 100th. And if you could put me back in grad school, I'd never replicate what I did. I mean, it just worked perfectly. - It's clear you have a real competitive fire. - Oh yeah. Where's that come from? - I think it's kind of genetic. When I was a kid, I was ambitious, but not about school, but other shits. I was a kid who went out and knocked on doors to shovel driveways and things like that. So there was an ambition there that was, I think my brother was the favorite son 'cause he got better grades, but my brother had a kind of a streak in him where he didn't want to do shit like that. In retrospect, I was my father's watch me going, this is the kid with grit. - I think I'm suspecting. - I think grit goes a real long way for people. - You know, maybe if you're a mathematician, you need more than grit. There are fields that just fly out and eat genius. Mathematician, you need to start as a genius and that doesn't get you anywhere. Organic chemistry, it's grit, in my opinion. - Yeah, I think for anything, I can't really talk to organic chemistry. I don't want balls for sure. Probably in the same category there. - Well, but one is being willing to take a risk. The other one is being willing to grind hard, right? So when I got to Cornell, so during my interviews, I discovered, I got to talk with some unbelievably legends of chemistry types. Guys, you go holy shit, I don't even know he was still alive. That sort of thing. And I came back from my first three interviews and I went to library and my boss comes in the room and again, he was phenomenal. And he says, "What are you doing?" And I said, "I'm switching fields." I don't have been in organic chemistry for about 14 months. So, you know, that was a big move. And he said, "What field?" I said, "I don't know yet." And he says, "What happened to you?" And he was like, "That's ridiculous." And I said, "No, no, there's more out there than I realize." What someone convinced me was, instead of saying, "Look, I know how to do A, B, and C. What can I do with it?" They said, "Figure out what's important." And then figure out how to do it. And that was a big, that was a big frame shift for me. And so you figure out what's important if you're out to do it. - You have to match it with your interest, though, too, right? - Well, you can't say we need to find another quark or something that the physicist, you gotta be realistic. But so what I had to do was find what I was an interesting problem. And I found one, there was a wide open field that had been dead for 20 years. And I said, "You know, there's a lot of buildup brush under here. There's work to be done in this field now 'cause for 20 years, I was done anything." And science has marched forward and that hasn't been backfilled at all. And here's a strange phenomenon that I can actually convey to you. We're gonna chemists spread across the periodic table looking for a home, right? You're looking for a place to plant your flag, right? So there's famous chemists who found boron and you know, smarium and things like that. The most amazing thing is there's one element that was completely ignored. And what's that? You're not gonna believe this, sodium. Hmm, sodium, if you bought a hundred pound bag of sodium chloride, the most expensive part of that is the bag. - Right. - And for some reason, or gonna chemists say, I mean, it's not that there isn't sodium in the chemistry, but it was just ignored as a field of study, as a field of, and the last series are gonna sodium chemistry before we started. There's something guys do if they're having to be listening. I don't wanna insult them, but there was no one doing a real holistic analysis and really digging into the weeds and saying, "What the hell's going on here?" The last one to try to do that was in the '40s. Now they didn't have shit to work with. So there was a lot of unsolved problems left after those guys, and so I thought there was a reason why it didn't, wasn't gonna work. But I figured out how to study it. They required a sort of an intellectual breakthrough, 'cause there's certain things technically made it hard to study, but I figured out we had the tools to do it. And I thought we were gonna discover why chemists had not stumbled upon it using just random motion, right? And we found no problems. I mean, it worked beautifully. And we created new reagents that do things different than the lithium. Lithium, by the way, is the most important metal on organic chemistry. So lithium's most important. Lithium's right below sodium, right above sodium in the periodic table. Oh, I didn't even know that. Right, they're so similar, they're talking about making sodium and sodium. Sodium batteries are a thing now. Samsung's making sodium batteries. Same logic as Lithium. For people out there listening, or I think it's sodium and they're thinking like salt, obviously it's something to eat all the time. Right, but if you make a sodium carbon bond, and that sucker's reactive, so you make it, you make a charge species with a sodium ion attached to it. It's really. reactive. Well, it makes it so reactive. Oh, that's a fascinating question. That's probably there's simple answers, but they'd be wrong. And I could, I don't know how to give you a simple answer on this without it turns out that if you think of the stability. Yes. You start with your reagent. You have to get over some big hump to get to the product. So your reagent is sitting there. And if it's really unstable, then you're closer to the hump. So if you make the starting reagent unstable, then getting over the hump is just a little hop-skipping to jump. So that makes it more reactive. What makes it a complicated question is the hump also is destabilized by the existence of the sodium. So people often answer that question without thinking too thoroughly about it. And I actually talked about this in class and stuff. But so the bottom line is that you know, I wrapped up my program about two years ago. What do you mean you wrapped up your program? I just let the grants go. I just didn't renew them. Called it a day. Okay. So you were doing that for a very long time. 45 years. Yeah. And part of it is because I had had the best group of my life. About five years ago, six years ago, I could be losing track of time. And then it really kind of, just by, there's ebbs and flows of research groups. It's like a football team, right? Sometimes you win the pennant, sometimes you don't. My group had really gotten what I considered to be weak. And I said, look, I'm 69 years old. My target was 70. I said, we had a whole bunch of good organic chemists. So I said, look, I can try to rebuild or I can call it. So I call it now. What came next? Yeah. You know, all sorts of shit came next. Oh, that was right before. No, now it was after COVID. I start to say COVID, but it was after COVID, but people were rattled by COVID. Now it was right before Trump took a bat to academia. And so as I used to joke to my colleagues, I'd say I wrapped up my program last year. You guys are wrapping up your program this year. They're really still serious funding problems and stuff. So I think I cut the golden air of academia. I think academia's got a tough couple of decades ahead of it. Do you think some of that is really self-inflicted? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. But also, I was talking to a bean counter Cornell. We have a bean counter. The accountant for the College of Arts and Sciences. And I said, so she, we invite people to our faculty meetings, which we have every two weeks. Oh, that's a lot. We like them. You like them. We like them. Oh, that's good. You got third. You got to sit around the table looking for a punchline. Yeah, you like them. Those are smart guys looking for a punchline. And we invite them people. We might invite the president runs the art museum. That's cool. And things like that. So you get this bug up your ass, you can't just invite that guy. You know, we get a new dean. We invite the dean right away. Get a new president. We invite the president right away. And I asked her, so have you been invited to any other departments? She said, no. Now the last bean counter to come through was the university bean counter about five years earlier. And when I asked him, he said, the last time I was invited to a department was chemistry five years ago. So we're the only department that does this. Now because of it, though, we understand the university. Yes. We understand how it texts. I don't know who thought of this model, but I've tried to get deans to go into other departments, say, start bringing in guests. You will not be so goddamn ignorant of how this university works. If you start bringing in guests. So I don't think the universities are as fucked up as Trump thinks they are. But I do think that we got pretty sloppy. And they certainly have gone pretty left wing. Pretty left wing. There was an understatement. But within chemistry, for example, we've never hired anyone based on anything but quality. That's important. And I would remember because I would have been screaming if we didn't. So you never felt the pressure come into where you had to adhere to. Well, in the original idea of affirmative action, we looked very hard and dusty corners to make sure that we were doing what society was demanding of us. Sure. But when we finally made the offer, these were people we thought, by the way, if they stack the deck in favor, say women, there is a reason to give them the benefit of the doubt or a tie break or whatever, because because they're going to get funded in ways that the guys aren't. And so they're not going to fail because it failure to get resources and stuff like that. And so that actually makes it a more attractive offer. They've sweetened the offer for us. And despite that, my colleagues, I think you're like 27 to 2 left wing. Now, when you're a chemist, you're running a small company. You're building a program. You're raising the money. You're writing the papers. You're doing everything. You're teaching. You're sharing committees. You're doing all sorts of stuff. But I don't know where you find all your time to do this work all day. People think academics sit around. One day I posted a tweet. I said, I said, everyone thinks academics are like cats around, you know, smoking pot, you know, you know, staring at the moon and licking their crutches. And I said, I just want to be clear. I don't smoke pot. Not anymore. Not anymore. Last time I spoke pot was one day in grad school. And I had a panic attack all along time. Yeah. And you look at my colleagues when they have time away from the classroom, they're catching up on all the shit they want to get done. So, you know, it's not rare for a chemist to work an eight hour week. Wow. Right. Yeah. I mean, I've always respected across whatever department it is. The professors who will take on like full course loads while they're also literally writing books, even writing research papers. You're doing studies that require intricate details and things like that because your brain has to be in different places at all times. Like when I had HW in here and he's telling me about all the classes that he teaches all HW brands. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He was great. Amazing guy. Amazing. I'm like, where the fuck do you find the time? He's writing, he averages more than a book a year and he teaches a full course load and loves it at UT. I'm like, wow. Right. Oh, he was fascinating. Right. He's really good. And well, your job is kind of, they used to say it's 50% teaching, 50% research, 50% committees. But, you know, when I was young, as a assistant professor, I worked seven days a week, went in at nine, left at 11 at night. Wow. That was, and you know, when you have a family stuff, you start compromising. But, you know, with laptops and stuff, I'm still working until one in the morning to whatever. But now I've wrapped up my program. I'm just completely, you know, tooling out on extra, yeah, extraneous, on Twitter and reading articles and stuff like that. Good for you. I listen to audiobooks when I drive. And so, so there's no dead time for my brain. There's absolutely no downtime. Yeah. When did you, I mean, obviously you've had an extremely long career focus on chemistry and everything you just described around that. But at what point did you really start to take an interest in a lot of other things as well and formulate thoughts? Because, like I said, your Twitter feed, like you're going across the gamut here. It's all over and yeah, that's real schizophrenia. That's all right. I like that. That's good. So, when I was in high school, I thought I wanted to go to Wall Street. I didn't really know what it was. I just thought it was cool. It turns out it was, I experienced the boom leading up to 67, 68. I remember, you know, watching my dad who bought carrier shares, make a fortune off his carrier shares because of friend of his who who became the CEO of carrier eventually told him you should be buying these shares. We are going places and my dad bought it. You know, so is intriguing. And somehow I got off that path because I was really kind of a science guy. And at the time, there's no such thing as the science is going to Wall Street. Now it's gone. Yeah, you see that. Now they want nothing but science, right? But that was not even rational at the time. So I somehow got off that track. When I got into the early 90s, it was the beginning of the.com boom. And I had a crude wealth because I'm a pretty good saver. You can see I don't over dress. I like that. My wife said where something nice has said no. Part because I don't have anything nice, but that's simple man. For me, for me, squandering money is take out, right? That's about as far as I go. I'm getting you to buy me a latte. God damn right. God damn right. And I another one too. So I started paying attention to the markets. I had this fateful lunch with the traveling salesman. Sounds like we're going down Penn House Latteras mode. And he would go from company a company and talk stocks. And more and more, the executives of the companies wanted to go to lunch with them. And so here's this guy. He's just a bullshit traveling salesman, but he's coming. So I got to invite him to a lunch with him. And he said, he said, here's two companies you ought to buy. And one was called Zelmer or something. I don't know. It turned out a bad idea. Yeah, there was a company called LDDS, which was a small bandwidth bandwidth company out of Mississippi. Now, people who know Wall Street well will recognize it might recognize it. This LDDS in the early 90s became World Cup. Oh, so I bought LDDS when it was nothing. And then it turns out that I was a raging tech ball, which shows you that we were in a bubble. And then I started reading a books about markets and stuff. And I started to go, wait a minute, something's wrong here, right? Then why 2K was coming? Before you get to the Y2K thing, what was the early part where you're like, hold on, this is way over inflated? Well, you can just look at the price of the market relative to earnings. There's about 25 good metrics of valuation. The average investor doesn't know valuation is the price of the market relative to something it should track. They both correct for inflation. So if inflation kicks in the price back when he goes up and the revenues goes up, the earnings go up because that's what inflation does. What a lot of people don't realize is if we have a raging inflation, it will not take a high valuation and shrink it because they both go up. So if you are way overvalued, you can't inflate away the valuation. What you can do is make an overvalued market look terrifying because of inflation is roaring and you're pricing to 2.5% return on your investment, your host. People don't seem to realize that say, oh, I'm just going to buy this AI bubble because, you know, why not? Yeah, we'll get to that. Right. I've been microdose in something new lately and it's not what you think. A lot of people refer to it as nature's wine. The mushroom I'm talking about is called Aminita Muscaria. The red one with the white spots from every fairy tale and video game ever. But here's the thing. Unlike psilocybin microdosing, Aminita doesn't push you into a psychedelic headspace. It's more like a gentle nervous system reset. 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Link in the description below. Codjdp22 for 22% off at checkout. So I started to notice things were out of whack. And so I dumped half of my mutual funds in July of '98. Oh, good call. Oh, it gets better. It gets way better. You were selling airline stocks ahead of 9/11? That's a yes. That looks like a hard yes. Now I was flying planes. With a joy stick. With a joy stick. It's like, that's American Airlines. It's a little bit overwhelming. Let's bank that sucker into the pentagon, right? And then it tanked into the late '98, the market cut way back. And I said, you're either a half genius or a half moron. I loved half of it in there and took half out. So I said, if it comes back, I'm getting the rest out because I still think it was nuts. And it came back big. And it came back because of Y2K because screens been flooded the market with money because of the Y2K risk. Yeah. Yeah. But that was a whole thing. I was way too young. I was like a baby basically, but people were really nervous to when the computer was on. Well, some were and some were not. So here's what I think happened. So I'm talking to a friend of mine who founded, founded my fraternity brother, founded Goldman Sachs software group. Who's this guy? Got him Rick Sherlyn. You found Goldman Sachs software group. You are ground zero. Yeah, you're doing okay. Right. And I'm talking to him one day. And well, first of all, I call him. And he doesn't answer. He's not there. I talked to a secretary. And I said, if Rick ever gets an idea, this one, I was a tech ball still. And he says, I said, if Rick gets an idea, when they give to his grandmother, give me a call. And about 20 minutes later, she calls me. She said, well, Rick just ran through the office. I presented it to him. And he said rational software. So it's like a movie on TV rational software. I have no fucking idea. And I said, did you mention that whole grandmother thing? And she said, yeah, I did. So the next Monday, I bought rational software way more than I should because one of my best friends, who's at the ground zero of the software world, said, buy it. You can't get better than that. From the minute I bought it, it like went up to an apple over a period of a number of months. I go, now what do I do? And this is what told me. Wall Street was not. I said, now what I do. And then I go, oh, reunion's coming. I'll ask Rick again. So Rick comes in. I'm talking to Rick. And I said, by the way, thanks for the rational software. I said, what should I do now? And he says, he starts thinking about it. And he goes into Rick analyst mode. I can see him like obviously like split personality, right? And then he gets to the end of the on the one hand on the other hand. And he goes, you could start taking profits. So a Monday morning, boom, all gone. Just jettison the whole lot. You got rid of all of it. Just, just that one and everything just rational. And, and from that day, rational march back down to cheaper than when I bought it from that day. Sounds like he knew a low sum zone. Well, I think what I did was, is I got him thinking about something he hadn't paid attention to. And I think he walked through the office on Monday morning and said, tell our preferred customers to start taking profits on rational. That's what I think happened. Then I realized how sane is. So then it's way down. And I said, should I buy it again? And he said, no. And then it went up four fold. And so I go, no one knows what they're doing here. No one knows. Abby Joseph Cohen was, was a very prominent analyst during the dot com boom. She was huge. She was not a partner. So I'm talking to Rick one day. I said, let me take a guess here, Rick. She's not very good. But because she's so prominent, you're going to have to make her a partner. He looks at me says in October. So in any case, um, in the 90s, I put very close stops behind all my equities. And by mid 99, I was out. I dumped WorldCom with a 700% gain WorldCom eventually went bankrupt and he went to jail. That wasn't genius. Bernie Ebers. Yeah. I don't even know if he's out. He probably is. I think he just died, right? Can we check that? I'm pretty sure Bernie Ebers. How long do you go to jail for? That's really long. He went to jail. He got like a 20 year. Did he die in 2020? Yeah. Yeah. That's the man right there. So what did I go into? So I went to cash this mid 99. I'm reading from some smart guys. The internet was now starting to talk. And I used to send emails to guys. And the email for so unclogged at that point that I could send an email off to some executive director of Morgan Stanley. And he'd answer me. We send an email to Jeffrey Epstein too. Yeah. Yeah. I might as email West. Yeah. I'm only like 30, 40 times. But you know, the jerky really kind of got old after a while. Um, and, uh, watch, watch me get hammered for that joke. Um, you have to, you have to ask for us those jokes. Yeah. I know. Those are jokes. I'm, I'm just kidding. Jerky jerky jokes. Grape soda jokes. Um, they didn't really hide it. And, and, and, and with Y2K coming, which, which I believe the risk was real, there's a guy named Yeager who was really pumping the risk. And a guy named Yardani, who was on a big wall streeter who really bought the story. And he went wild on it. Can we pull up your Denny? I know. Yeah. Denny hasn't made a negative call since because you're Denny got hammered. Yeah. Now, Yardani really fell for it. And nothing happened. Now, I've had software guy say, Oh, we fixed it. That's a bullshit story because you know, and I know that if there was a real problem, there would be little brush fires all over the world. That's right. Right. You say, Oh, we've got a fundamental virus that's covered the world. Oh, we just fixed it. No, it's not going to happen. You're going to be putting out brush fires for a long time after that because we might have fixed it in most companies, but certainly vent as a way of letting them fix it, right? And stuff like that. So it was a scam to sell software hardware. I took me years to realize I didn't just make a mistake I fell for a scam. Now, what it did do is it taught me about supply chains because I started digging into what if what if they can't move goods and services? And that became a useful piece of information. So it first showed up in COVID. So when I saw COVID coming, the markets seemed to not give a shit. And I'm going, they're about to shut down the global economy and no one's selling. - Yeah, it's crazy. - So I'm in the grocery store buying all the protein, buying all the ton of paper, and no one's giving a shit yet. I go, "No, I've been through this math already." - Is this like February or January? - This would have been maybe. I've got emails back in January questioning the narrative. Talking to biochemists saying, there's something fishy about this virus. I don't understand it. For one thing respiratory virus is, there's so many of them, it made no sense to me. But in any case, I, in '99, because of Y2K, I shorted the market, not a big chunk, and I bought gold. - Real Peter Schiff guy. - Real Peter Schiff and I see each other every October, yes. Real Peter Schiff guy. And I'd like to think I'm a little less aggressive than Peter, but I bought gold. And to tell you how cheap it was, I was buying it in the central fund of Canada, which was trading at 28% below book value. So I was buying it at 28% discount. So I was buying gold when it was 270, which men was probably about 220. I was buying silver and around. - How were you getting at that divorce from where the market was? - Because no one gave a shit. So at one time, I was talking to Chris Martin, and Chris, we were laughed about it, 'cause people say, "Wow, it's so easy to buy gold." When it was 300, 'cause it was so cheap, and we laughed when we got the reason it was 300 is, 'cause there wasn't a person on the fucking plan who gave a shit about gold. It was so, the bank of England sold the last of its gold, Canada emptied the last of its gold. I mean, no one wanted gold. And somehow little voicemail had said it. And so I bought gold, I've not sold an ounce. So I was buying it to time it. - I still have it all, yeah. - Good for you. - And I bought it. I used to go the coin deal and go the bank and get 1,000 bucks and buy three ounces of gold. - Oh, you were in in. - I was in in. - You were in in? - Yeah, yeah, well that's the proper part. - Yeah. - Right. And so my network's probably 40% gold right now. And I haven't sold it because I haven't, first of all, I don't know where to put the money because everything looks terribly risky to me. - Everything does look like it is divorced from reality. And I think I've been looking at this a lot because I studied the financial crisis when it happened. I was like a freshman in high school. And it was so fascinating to me that you could see that the world just completely shifted overnight and suddenly people couldn't afford things they could afford the day before. That was just weird for me to look at. So I really started, probably started looking at it maybe like a year later, sophomore, junior year with high school. And what ended up happening there is you came out the other side and the people that ended up okay were people that were rich before the crisis. The people who lost the balls of their ass and their life savings and stuff, they ended up selling anything they had at the low mark and then didn't get back in and couldn't participate on the way back up and to say nothing of the quantitative easing and all the inflating away the value of the dollar that we did during that time. And to me, what it's done is it took a market that pre-08 already had a very small percentage representing Main Street, right? And then you could add in a percentage where it's like pension funds obviously represent Main Street and they would use their levers and invest in everything. But you basically had elites that were already running the stock market and we've run the percentages on it before. But since then, that percentage of like Main Street that is represented in the stock market is now like this. - Right. - As opposed to like. - But it's also all their savings. - It's all their savings, but like they have no power. - You know the median boomer of seven-year-old boomer has in their, I tweeted this yesterday, the median boomer, median, you don't use average 'cause it includes Bill Gates, right? The median boomer has a retirement fund of 200,000, the median seven-year-old. - That's not a lot of money. - That's not gonna buy you lattes for the rest of your life, right? - That's gonna be, hello, welcome. - They have a $27,000 self-security payout. - So you do the math to bring it in like, if they take the money out, conservatively out of their retirement account, they're making like 32,000. Our grad students make 45. - Right. - And so this idea that the boomers have all the money, there are boomers who have all the money, but the boomers collectively aren't big, big trouble. - Yeah, the way that you say median versus mean is very, very important. It's just when you look at that, I'm gonna throw a random percentage on it without looking at the actual data. When you look at say that top 20%, if we wanna go parade or route, obviously the hard assets that they hold on to and have allowed to accumulate over the years to them at the boomer generation. That's where people take issue because you have boomers that are maybe 60, 70 years old, and they're holding on to houses they bought for 10 grand. 40 years ago, maybe not 10 grand, but you know, I mean, 30 grand, 40 years ago, and now the houses are worth three and a half million. And so the younger generations, which are already represented smaller demographically, they can't touch it, they can't get in the game. That's a problem. - Well, it is a problem. I actually had my millionapolis one day tell me that I was a traitor to my generation, and then I might actually survive the boomer purge. (laughing) Why'd he call you a traitor? Because I was actually not supportive of the boomers in a way. People accused me of being supportive of the boom, they don't understand it. Here's what we should do, we should raise rates. We should keep raising rates. Because what it'll do, it'll cut the market in half, boomers get hammered. The younger generation gets to buy assets at a reasonable price. - Yeah. - You raise the rates, you cut the houses in half, the boomers get hammered. The younger generation can now finally afford houses. When I was a system profile, I started in '80, I was able to buy a house at '81. And it was $44,000. The interest rates were 16%. When you walk into a Realtor's office, they say how much money do you have? What's your income? Here's what you can afford. And if the interest rates are 16%, you can't afford anything. Which is why the houses were cheap. Because the market couldn't support high prices. Because interest rates were too high. Then I own houses the whole way from 16% to zero. - That's right. - And that's where they appreciate it. - So here's what was going to happen. The boomers, by definition, were going to create a boom. They were going to create a boom demographically. So they were entering the workforce. They brought their wives. Markets were dirt cheap in '80, dirt cheap in '80. The Soviet Union was collapsing, not yet, but it was weakening, it was selling resources to get capital. China was coming out of the dark ages and selling slave labor for pennies. Everything was a tailwind. We were going to have a boom. In retrospect, it was patently obvious we were gonna have a huge boom. Meanwhile, meanwhile, so what happened over the next 45 years? This is stunning. Valuation shouldn't trend. So by the way, your table's noisy. You ever know what I'm saying? You're listening on podcasts? - Yeah. - Table pun, you get all whackage. - I like that. Okay. - We built it. I should've put a bell on it or something. And so, Valuation shouldn't trend. They should go up and down and wander around and stuff when they get expensive, when they get high, their markets are expensive, then they correct. They get cheap. They're cheap, too expensive and back again. Just for 110 years, KShL or PE average 15, that's an, that's a time average price earnings ratio. - Right. In '94, it took off and there's a big debate as to why in '94 it left the channel. - TPP. - TPP. - That was the Trans-Pacific Partnership, right? - Well, there's a debate. I thought it was a bond market bailout that they just never took their foot off the gas. My green, one time I was on a Twitter space, we got named George Noble, who's a very famous Wall Street guy, and my green was there, and he's the expert on passive investing. And he said that's when passive investing began to take off. Now, I didn't quite, now I thought green had a simple model. Green has a very complex one. - When you say passive investing for people out there, you tell them about like ETFs, that kind of thing. - That's where you just hand over your money to fidelity and say you invest in it. And it goes into an index fund. Here's the problem with passive investing. You're not paying for something based on its value. You're not, so there's no price discovery. So one time I cornered Jack Bogal, who invented passive investing. - The Vanguard guy. - Vanguard guy, he invented it. It was his senior thesis in college. And I cornered him. - You cornered him? - I cornered him. - You cornered him. - Button all of them. He was at Cornell and I said, Jack, I got a question to ask. I said the problem with index funds, is that there's no longer adults who provision, because there's no longer big pension fund managers walking in the CEO's office saying, get your shit together or selling your shares. So now the more the shares go up, the more money they get allocated, the more they go up. And so there's this. - Natural expansion where stocks get deprived of flow and other stocks get huge flow. - It created a new layer in between reality. - Right, and so obviously there's no short sellers left. Short sellers sell the top and buy the bottoms. They round out the sharp points. They actually serve a very important purpose. They also find the criminals. So good short. They sometimes create fake stories and stuff. There are some bad ones for sure. They find the criminals. There are the guys who find it aberers is off balance sheet crap and then run. And so they say, "We're short sellers who discovered "end run." It was Jim Chano's, actually. And they don't exist anymore. They've all been destroyed. There's hardly any even market neutral types where they've short half and go long half. It's just not paid. And that's a bad sign. So over the 45 years where market should not trend from 81, which was cheap. So admittedly, that's trough to what we'll call a peak today. The market's compounded 4% annually of the valuation. Not the price of the valuation. So it went from P of six to a P of 40 something. Now, at some point in the future it's going back to six. - Why? - I think it'll go all the way back to six. - Always done. - There's never been an asset class in history that didn't find this way from expensive back to cheap. Since ancient Rome, they just come and they go, they just go back, I don't know when. Could be 10 years from now. I don't know when. - You studied asset classes in ancient Rome. - Well, here's a good one. Gold and ancient Rome bought a month's worth of labor. Hard labor. How much would that be today? How much would a month of hard labor be today? About 4,000. It depends where you're buying it. - Right, that's a price of an ounce of gold. There are things to learn from looking at history. And they used to say it bought a good suit, but what's a Togo cost? How do you do that one? So my best decade was the knots. Now, I actually have at least one year, maybe two triple digits in the late teens when I was still a bull. When I had a Dell computer and WorldComb and Warner Lambert, these are unbelievable companies. - In the 90s, you mean? - In the 90s where I was still a bull. But the knots were my best decade graded on a curve because during the knots where two bear markets did some serious correcting of investor attitudes. - See the dot com bubble and then the housing bubble. - Right. I actually, I actually, I went long energy, not because I saw an energy cycle coming which did come, a commodity, so a big one. Just a hedge inflation. To me, inflation was, I grew up with inflation. So inflation is always a risk in my mind. And I bought energy. So I'm gold energy, golden energy through the knots. And so it turns out while I was getting killed, I compounded 13% a year. - Wow. - Right. Now, what happens that whole decade? - Yeah. That's insane. - That beat everybody. - Oh, I bet, yeah. - And in 2009, I was on a chat board from the late 90s chatting about how fucked up everything is. - Now are you doing this under your name or under a pseudonym? - Well, it was under a pseudonym back then. I was the name Thomas. And I actually published a couple blogs under the name Thomas. That's my son's name. Then I went, then I came out of the closet. - What made you come out of the closet? - I find a side of fuck it, right? - When was this? - Well, I published a couple articles. I used to chat late at night. See, one of the things I was not bad for was reaching out to smart people and chatting. - You just got to make sure Chris Hansen's not on the other side. - And some important things. - I was chatting late at night with obscure Harvard professor named Elizabeth Warren. - Oh. - You see all this? - She seemed like a real honest person. - I'm not quite sure I got that right or she changed. I don't know which. - Could be both. - But then she got put in charge of tarp oversight. I sent her an email and I said you just got, you just threw the longest, the shortest strong history getting that tarp oversight where that was the bailout. Oh, wait '09, she was supposed to oversee it. Was she still a Harvard then? - She was still a Harvard. - So I said to her, I said I got a friend at the New York Fad who might need allies - Who was your friend? - Get him Rich Ulig. - Okay. - And I said you might need allies. He might be good to get to know. It turns out Rich was former CEO of Morgan Stanley Bank. And about, she said thank you and then just shook it off and then about two weeks later she says could you give me that name of your friend at the Fad so she was clearly getting overwhelmed. And here I am in a three way between the tarp oversight chair, the CEO of Morgan Stanley Bank, the banking subsidiary. And me and I'm going how did I get here? Right, this was pretty weird. And so in '09 I wrote up kind of a bit of a biography, kind of a bit of a history looked at my analysis, looked at I used to measure my net worth based on multiples of my annual salary which caught people's attention. - You measured your net worth based on multiples? - So I have plot showing multiples of my annual salary from 1980 on. - Can you explain what that means? - Well, so let's say after the first year it's 10% of my annual salary. So the plot would be point one on the y-axis. And then the idea being that if you measure multiples of your annual salary that kind of covers the whole inflation problem and everything. And at some point you have enough multiples where you can say I can retire. And because I've got so many years of salary equivalents and your salary also goes up. And it does drift up if you're doing better if you're getting promoted, things like that. And so it's a way of scaling that all together. And as of '09 I'd had no losing year. And then I had a couple after that. One or two small ones, nothing big. But it caught people's attention. And so next thing I know I got invited to go on capital accounts, which was this show by a woman named Lauren Lister. Who you would die for? - Lauren Lister. - Lauren Lister. - Let's pull up Lauren. - Lauren Lister. - Real Fox. And. (laughing) Good looking woman. - Yeah. - So I was invited down to do a capital accounts podcast, interview half FR. So I go over to our media guys, they look, I've never done a TV. Would you help me out? Make sure I'm not making any avoidable rookie errors. And they filmed a little bit of me. I said, "You got no idiosyncrasies." I go, "That's the first time I've ever had." (laughing) And I went down there and she's there with a guy named Demetri Cuffinus. - Demetri Cuffinus. - Hidden Forces podcast. - Okay. - And at one point, I'm talking to Demetri Cuffinus, I'm there all day and they're preparing the half FR interview. But our media guy said, "This is big, right?" I go, "What do you mean?" And he said, "These guys hit 350 million set of boxes." I go, "This is bigger than CNN International." - Yeah, that's gonna say. - It's Russia today. - And it was RT. - It was RT. - All right, I want you to picture this. You get a last minute invite. Could be a dinner, an opening, or even being a plus one to a wedding that's only two weeks away. You need something to wear and you need it fast. And this is when you head straight on over to Revolveman. Revolveman is the curated fashion platform you need in your life right now. We're talking about a platform that features all kinds of go-to brands like Polo Ralph Lauren, Salomon, Fear of God Essentials, and more. And when you get there, you're not drowning in 10,000 results or 50 pages of product. It's edited in a way that makes sense. And everything's styled together too, so you can see how it works. 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It's free two day shipping, easy returns, and the whole process is just smooth. Once again, that's revolve.com/julyan-linka-modestription-belo and use code Julian for 15% off your entire order. Offer and soon, don't sleep on it. And so I do the interview with her. And that got some press, right? My colleagues all watched it drinking beer. They said, "How did you concentrate?" So I'm talking to Metri in a typical day. Said, "You banging her?" (snores) He said, "No, he's a liar." What I also didn't know, and Demetri's gone totally public on this, explained it. He had a massive tumor. Oh no. And I asked him later, I said, in our first interview, were you actually having trouble hanging under reality at that point, he said, yeah. So he had a tumor that said, you're not, you're dying. Some guy, Columbia Med fixed him, but everyone else said, you're going to die. And he was really losing his marbles. That ended up breaking up with Laura, Lauren Lister, you know, break up with her if you got your marbles. And she's disappeared, she's got a much more highly paying gig that caused her to just go off radar. I think it was a big mistake. It was one of those, you know, went for the money and ended up, maybe she's doing important stuff that she likes doing, but she disappeared from my radar, put it that way. So I did that a few times and I got on the podcast circuit, but one of the things that got me to the story was I realized that you can't understand finance or understanding politics. And then I started digging to dig into politics, then I realized you'd never really done that before. Not real. I remember grad school, someone mentioned Aldo Moral getting assassinated and I didn't know who he was. He was the Paul that I didn't know who Aldo Moral was, right? So now I was too busy doing chemistry. And then I discovered the politics was weird. To understand politics, you got to understand all this stuff. And what really sent me down terrible rabbit holes was this question of, well, the woke period was fun to write about because it was so comical at some level. And then in 2020, I got, I got canceled. I got my ass kicked pretty good. You got canceled? Yeah. But you know, oh, I supported the police. And remember the guy in Buffalo got knocked over. The guy in Buffalo. The old man in Buffalo, Polkan riot police, they had a skimmer. He was scanning their equipment during the George Floyd riots. You weren't out there with the George Floyd signs? No. No, no, no. I was drugged, yeah, and so guy named Chris Irons, QTR, you might see him on Twitter. He posted and said, this is just awfully got knocked over and blood's coming out of his ear and stuff. And I looked at it and I said, you know, Chris, we can talk about our Saturday, we're going to do a podcast. I said, but, but I don't know what he was doing there, right? Something was fishy about the story. And I said, I don't know, and that's, that's what I do all the time. I find that thing that doesn't make sense. That puzzle piece, it doesn't fit. Yeah. You're like a real Columbus. And I got one for you. We can talk about half the factor before, but during, but I got one for you, um, it'll piss off and, um, and, and, and I asked some doctors, blood come out of the ear. Does that make sense? They said, no, it takes quite a while to build up an uppressure in the head for the blood to come out of the ear. It turns out you can see a little thing looks like a hearing aid. So I didn't see any of that a little pyrotechnic, but I said, um, I don't know what he was doing. He looks like he was poking the riot police with something. I said, you know, it looks kind of self-inflicted to me. I didn't say deserved it, but self-inflicted is pretty goddamn clear when you're poking a riot policeman. Right? You get knocked on your ass. So he supposedly was in a coma. His Twitter feed, which had hate the police all over, it was getting scrubbed while he was in a coma, getting scrubbed, cleaning out all the tweets that said, I hate the police. Then I find a video of him arguing with a bunch of people saying, I'm gonna go pick a fight with the cops and they're arguing back saying, why would you do that? You know, and this and that and so on. So the whole thing was a setup. I didn't know that one. I've tweeted, but the tweet got my tweet got picked up by some famous Hollywood actor. And I've read the tweet that he did many times. I can't find the dog whistle, but somehow that triggered a very astroturfed cancellation. A Hollywood actor. A two million follower Hollywood guy. I can't remember. He tweeted something about me. Chris picked it up and then he deleted the tweet. So it got really weird. And within Chris Morrison, Chris Irons, oh, oh, the guy that was. And then within 20 minutes, emails were hitting every email box on campus. And over the next few days, this is during COVID lockdown. A few days graffiti over a campus fire columnist and that, right? Now, I had already gotten in trouble with the students because twice I'd fought labor unions. Now, it's not an inherent oppositional labor unions, but unionizing grad students made no sense. I mean, I saw it as actually very destructive to the academic world. I got asked to fight the union the first time by the dean of faculty. And so I helped organize a group. They fought it. They kicked the shit out of the unions. Nothing happened. The union shut up again. Now the American Federation of Teacher Randy Winegarden talking about wanting to spot her in a crosswalk. He's a real fucking gym. Yeah. Just put go on that crosswalk, Randy. I bet you there's a half a half of the country would hit the gas. And that's a joke, YouTube. That's a joke, YouTube. And I got into it with her and her union and they played a much better. They're not a play it and we almost, we were going to lose. And then I took one shot of picking a fight with the pro union guys and some dumb shit in the union posted my fight. And then the fight was on. And then the daily sun coming might do an article and I knew it was going to be a hit piece. And I normally wouldn't do that, no, I'll do an email-based interview so that I can control the flow of the information. But I said, "Fuck it, let's do it." So at the very end I said, "I'm not done." And the woman said, "Oh, what else would you like to say?" "No." I said, "That's a quotable quote. I'm not done." And she took the bait. And so next thing I know there is a brawl on it. They beat him by 60 fucking votes on a 2000 and they were so mad and they spent millions of dollars. So then they hammered me. Then they slashed and burned some- What year is that? Probably 17ish somewhere in there. Then in 2020, when the cancellation showed up, I could see the fingerprints of the union guys in there. Sure. But it was more than just that. It was- All for saying a guy picked a fight. That's what they were waiting for. You know, you probably don't remember, but cancel. That was peak of cancellation. Yeah, no, I remember well. They canceled anything that moved. Yeah. No, it's just crazy how low the bar got with that. I mean, man. So eventually I got denounced, corner made some mistakes, but the president- The current president. He denounced you? Well, the current president's a friend of mine. And he denounced you? Well, he's the one who called me when he was provost and asked me to fight the union. Right? So I'm sitting there thinking, okay, I can see the court case. Witness number one is going to be who is currently now our president. You know, did you ask them and so I didn't think I'd lose my job, but it was during lockdown. I was worried about Antifa. I knew the Cornell kids weren't going to come and kill me, but I wasn't sure about Antifa because they were running wild. It was still George Floyd season. And so I slept with a couple of loaded guns, I was a motion- my wife was PO'd. She was, why would you tweet that and I go, read the fucking tweet. Just read the tweet. I didn't say anything. You can just sleep in with a loaded gun. Two of them. Yeah. And I was ready to blow someone away. I was hoping it wouldn't be a Cornell student because that would be a problem for Cornell. But no one showed up because we were locked down and Antifa probably can't drive. So in any case. That was ugly. That was unpleasant. We're locked down with my son in his main squeeze and so we're having a great time. And so you make the sun sleep with loaded guns, too? No. But I did put steak knives in every room. Just in case I got cornered. In case you got cornered. Yeah. And so my talker said to me, he said, how many of your colleagues at Cornell have guns? And I said, well, actually we have a natural resources department, I bet they have guns. So in any event. Here's what happened. We're kind of going to use COVID showed up and I spotted the problem. Our university made the call that you had to get vaccinated or you quit. Or you quit. You get fired. Period. No exceptions. Now you as a chemistry professor and researcher over a lot of years, I would imagine. A former chair. I'm the only guy in the chemistry department hold all four administrative positions. And you and I would imagine through your work, you are very familiar with former companies. Oh, I consulted for, I consulted for Pfizer for 20 years. Okay. I was on Merck's long range steering committee, five scientists worldwide, one of those five who looked, they lifted up their skirt of everything they were doing. Say what do you think? I was a journal editor for 20 years. By the way, for the right, anyone listening, when someone says peer reviewed, that's horseshit. When someone says it's not peer reviewed, that's horseshit. A fact is a fact is a fact, don't worry about whether it's peer reviewed. If they say it was peer reviewed to defend their case. That's horse shit. Typical peer review takes a lot-- - Oh, every time. - It just means nothing. Sometimes peers review well, and sometimes they hand it to their grad students. Sometimes they make themselves a pot of coffee and spend an hour reading the paper and say, "Yeah, sure, what the fuck, why not?" And so peer review had carries, it doesn't in any way shape or form mean is worth a shit. - Okay. - Okay, and that's true for everything. Now, the head of the New England Journal medicine. - Oh, I remember that. - Persia and gel said, "I hate to say this, "but after 20 years of being the editor-in-chief "of the New England Journal medicine, "you can't believe anything in this journal." So here's what I'll tell you has happened. Pharma picked the low-line fruit. They still try to get it right. They still try to find new drugs that do things. They try to find drugs that maintain you. Curing you is very profitable. - Right, subscription model. - Subscription model, yeah. What has happened unfortunately appears to be the cases that when they get a drug that doesn't work, they sell that too. And I'm pretty pissed at Pharma at this point. - When you were directly connected with them for so long and knew some serious people. - I only saw chemistry. - Were you never caught like behind the scenes, you weren't looking at some of these objectively like smart people and saying, "What the fuck are we doing here "with this thing over here?" - No, because I only saw chemists. You wanna see the fraud. You go to the med schools, you go to the clinical trials. So I hear some books to read. I'm gonna, I find and podcast people like books. They like this, "How? Give us more books." So you start out by, and people will blow a snap up on this one. It's a brilliant book and that's the real Anthony Fauci by Bobby Kennedy. - I've heard it's really good. - It's phenomenal, it's phenomenal. Fauci should be taken to the Hague and tried for crimes against humanity prior to COVID, prior to COVID. Then you read the book Sickening by John Abramsson. He's the guy who figured Viox was killing people and he's now an expert at clinical trials and he tells a horror story of how clinical trials are rigged. - How does he explain the psychology of it? Does he say it's just psychopaths? - Yeah. - Just psychopaths. - But then you gotta hit-- - If you can't make that call, you can't have that job. - But you gotta have with the psychopaths, 'cause I agree that makes a lot of sense. You have to have people that yes men go along with it, too. Or psychopaths. They also silo them. So a doctor might be in a med school providing data for clinical trials. And he doesn't know where that data is going. Now, the other thing I'll tell you is that they flat out rig them. Like when Fauci ran the AZT trials, he so wanted a drug. - This is during the AIDS crisis. - They're the AIDS crisis. They completely fabricated the data. They were actually giving blood transfusions to AZT recipients knowing they were the AZT guys to keep them alive. They were switching control group in AZT. AZT was a lethal drug. It is easily argued that none of these drugs cured anything that the AIDS epidemic has run its course. That's what they do. Now, that gets us to Cheryl Atkinson's book, follow the science, Cheryl's phenomenal, phenomenal. She's been writing about science. You would have, oh, you should get her in here. - Cheryl, can we pull it up? - At the Cheryl Atkinson. - At Kisson. - At Kisson. And she didn't recognize her. - She'd follow the science and she just went through all the things she's been writing about for. She's a fourth degree black belt, I don't know. - Good for her. - Doesn't mean anything though. Black belts are like pure reviewed papers. She might be really good, but is anything real Dave? I'm wondering. I think the simulation models looking pretty good right now. - Oh God. But she, so here's a funny story. I wrote about Ashley Babet getting shot in January 6th. To me, the post January 6th response. Locking those guys away is the most heinous crime in American history right there. The most heinous crime ever. - Yeah, the way they hit it. - Well, you know, you can, I mean, there's a lot of people. If you take away some of the wars and shit, but it's a big one. - Yeah, it's a big one. And I wrote about the Ashley Babet shooting something being wrong. - But that's wrong. - Well, there's a bunch of things. One is there was no blood splatter. There was very little blood in the next shot. No blood, hello, right? Doesn't make sense. The guys who busted open the window for Ashley to crawl through is as soon as they busted open the window, the guy ran away from the window, runs down past the cops, takes down his backpack, changes his shirt. Video tapes, I watched hours of video tapes from that scene. And there were people in there who knew each other. There were guys giving knowing nods to each other like this, you know, going back and forth. There was a guy trying to open a gauze pad. It's like no one was providing health care, right? You know if someone's got a next shot. I took some first aid I had to in chemistry. You rip off your shirt, you jammin' on the wound, right? You stop the bleeding. No one was doing any of that. So the guy's ripping open the gauze pad. One guy's narrating, it's like, oh look at Gauze boy over there. He can't even get that gauze pad open. He finally gets it open. What's he do? He wipes her jacket with it. Whoa. So everything's wrong. And I write about it. And I send it off to my brother. And he says, I see your point. But they didn't watch all the hours I did. And he said, I don't know, you know. And then so I send it off to Brendan Eich, who wrote Brave, and wrote Firefox, and was pre-IPO Netscape, who's a smart bastard. He said, I see your point, but got the same, so I wrote a much shorter version when I would have written. It's also video-based, and I'm writing. So it's hard to make the case. So I said, okay, here's the length. Here's what I think went on. I don't know. I had also seen Ashley Bat, but poor she got shot. And I go, how is that possible? I've seen some, I've recognized her. You had seen her? I'd recognized her from a video somewhere, and I go, that seems awfully coincidental, right? Like a video that-- Yeah, where she was ranting about, you know, the election or something? I mean, right, but there's 350 million people in this country. So that's a little on the weird side. I picked up photos of Ukrainian operatives in the crowd. You got Ukrainian operatives in the country? Ukrainian operatives. I didn't know they were Ukrainian. Because picture the guy with QAnon Shaman, and picture the guy in Ukraine with Waffen, the SS symbol on his helmet, same guy, right? And then there was, remember Ray Epps? Oh, yeah. Clear with a fat. Let's go. Remember John Sullivan? Which one was he? John was the fair skinned black guy who filmed Ashley Babet getting shot and was also supposedly Antifa. And I went back and read Antifa posts on Twitter, and they also don't trust me as a fed. Oh, whoa, this guy. There we go, John Sullivan. Yeah, that guy. And so then who sought to incite violence by Trump supporters sentenced to six years? Yeah, well guess what, he got out. And also he's potentially expendable. You can work for the FBI and think you're on the same team and not realize that you were about to get written out on the plot. Sure. So I see John Sullivan even raised health through George Floyd riots and so he had been everywhere. And I started digging into John Sullivan and when you find out, first of all, the Antifa guy said he's a fed. He films Ashley Babet getting shot. What a coincidence. And he goes in there with a journalist, she didn't get arrested. And then I see pictures of him talking to Ray Epps. I go, what's going on here? Now, here's, I've told this story a few times. What is your image of Antifa? It's a loser, right? I mean, it's terrible. This is a guy with nothing left in life, right? This is a guy who's homeless. This is a guy, right? These are, these are guys being recruited for, you know, someone's giving up drugs to go out and stop. I think pretty much anyone that, you know, and I, peaceful regular protest is constitutional and I fully support it. I just don't think it works because I think largely whenever you see any sort of political movement that's going on, people show up, it's not even just that there's someone behind it. The fact that there's always someone behind it with money makes the point entirely, which is that it's people who have nothing fucking going on in their life. John Sullivan was a nationally ranked cyclist. FBI or Antifa? FBI. Right, yeah. Right. So I don't really tell this story in all this glory, although I provide enough information on record. Three years later, Cheryl Atkisson sits down with the tapes and two federal agents and they go through the tapes and go on, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. This is wrong. Thank you. So I reached out to Cheryl at chatting with her a little body. She doesn't want to hear about the things she missed because she'd already done the story. Right. Right. So, so that's what I do comfortably and that is I spot something that I go, there's just, you know the book, Link? By Malcolm Gladwell, brilliant book. Yeah, brilliant. I'm conscious mine goes, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, something's wrong. It's opening chapter about the ancient statue that the Getty Museum studied for 14 months and paid 10 million bucks to buy and some expert walked in there and said, it's fake. Just, boo, it's fake. Not even a preamble, it's fake. You know, what do you mean it's fake? They have something's wrong. They brought in more experts. One turned them and said, you pay for it. You know, and the expert, more experts came in. And so for 14 months, they studied it and they all missed it and then the story unraveled. Right? So the subconscious mind does amazing things. It tells you something's wrong. That's how we survive. That's evolution. Right? You go, there's something wrong here. The birds aren't chirping. There's something wrong, right? So there must, you know, something wrong, there must be a lion lurking in this event. But they program us to say there's nothing wrong. That's right. Or they program us to see everything that's wrong. Right? And complicated. Yes. Noise. So, so I dig into all sorts of stuff and some stuff I've just done of the patience for. Now on a daily basis, you get enough stuff that would dwarf the Watergate scandal for you. Oh, yes. By the way, we had 37 Watergates in the last three months. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Watergate was a total siop to get Nick's not office, right? You think so. Oh, yes. All right. Hold that thought. I just got to go to the bathroom. But I want to hear about this. All right. The Watergate. You were saying, I haven't read a lot about this, you know, who, you know, who's written about this a lot. You didn't talk to him about it. Nick Bryant. Is he really? Yeah. I think you wrote a book on it. On Watergate. A Watergate. You might have mentioned that. But that's stove piped in there. So, I thought it was really able of you to put up Nick Bryant, followed by Brett Weinstein before Weinstein, before bringing me, I'm going, you know, I'm the warm up in, guys. It's not fair to put me after that. You're the clean up, Peter. I'm the, I'm OK. I'm batting clean up. Yeah. Yeah. No, I am, I like, I'm a big fan of Nick Bryant who we've had a lot of long discussions. We've had podcasts. We've had. And, and, and he is a great resource. And I don't know if you talked to him off camera. But there's things that he knows, but he doesn't know sort of airtight, cordless. Right. He doesn't go with it. Yeah. That he won't say. Yeah. But by phone, he will. And by presumably, if he chatted with you, he would. That's a good, but that's what he has to do. That's a good job. That's what he has to do. Yeah. So the Watergate story is quite simple, actually. The entire burglar crew or CIA guys, let's start with that. You say, well, but someone went to jail, I go, yeah, that's what they do. I mean, that's like an assignment. They probably went to some club fed, got filling me, you know, right? They, that's an assignment. They had to do it. Sheep dipped. Yeah. And deep thought was second in the FBI. That was the source for Bernstein and that's right. Yeah. And, and, and Woodward, that was his first gig as a reporter. Yeah. What was he before? He was a reporter. Navy intelligence. Yeah. What part of that story adds up to a little strange? Yeah. It's, it would seem like if that's the argument that's made and there's evidence there and there's, there seems to be some evidence it's a classic entrapment plot plot. Yeah. And Mick, Nick's was very popular and the question is why and we'll never know that. It might have been because he, he implied he knew who shot Kennedy or something. I don't know. Could have, could have been, I don't care about that. They just wanted him out for some reason. Could have been a lot of things and that's, I don't know, I, that's where it gets, that's where it gets interesting too, because it's like, if you look at that, I've, I've talked with some people off camera as well who have walked me through some of the Watergate stuff and it's, it's sketchy for sure, but you wonder like, you see that story a couple months ago where that woman, what was it, Dave? She was like going to bomb something, you know what I'm talking about. She, so it turned out to be this, this lady got radicalized to air quotes there on, on Islam and she's American and she went that way and then it turned out she was working, I guess, unbeknownst to her with some undercover agents who were pushing her psychologically to do that. And then she said, I'm going to blow the place up or whatever. So obviously, yeah, a woman's a ledge, I six radicalization unfolded online before people. Yeah, yeah. I can't solve a crime unless I set it off. Right. So here, when I see a story like this, I go, well, obviously they found someone who's pushable, someone who's a little crazy, a little off, who then did agree to do something that's pretty bad and like, you're like, yeah, I don't love having that person on the street, but there's equal or more blame on the people who are doing the Joker just a little push away too much. Like, yeah, Whitmer kidnapping and show exactly, exactly, exactly, it's evil. It's evil. So here's the question, how broadly based is it? I think it's, I think if there's one thing we've learned in the past, say, decade or so, it is much more broadly based than we thought. And I look at it as a prime one of the main things you need to immediately evaluate in any situation for pretty much anything that comes up now. Right. So I am debilitated by a bias that I know I have. And that is that I think MK Altar, which I thought was internet legend and I was way off. When did you first hear about MK Altar? Oh, years ago, but I thought it was just bullshit. And then I read about the church commission and everything. I said, Holy shit. That was absolutely positively real. So then I went through all the books, Poison and Chief and all this shit, right? You're a chemistry guy too. So that's up your alley. Right. And and chaos, which is a brilliant book and and strange scenes in the canyon and there are just so many of these books. And and I realize MK Altar is very real. I also don't believe it failed and I don't believe I don't believe that they stopped. That's right. Right. So the question is how broadly based is it? So for example, there's some status of maybe this is not even true that nine shooters, which by the way, I would say within an error bar, I would think all the shooters were not just just crazy kids. What shooters? You name them. Kids who walk in elementary school, shoot up the place. Interesting. I think they're all all being now this is the bias, right? So I see MK Altar everywhere I turn around. Now you get things like you've all the where the guy goes in and shoots up the place. The cops don't go in at all for 78 fucking minutes. Question real quick, Dave. Yeah. Because it is sketchy. Sorry, Scott. Is it even simpler as a program? And here's what I mean by that question, right? If I were running MK Altra and then it was like, well, we can't do this anymore, right? Oh, we stopped and you rebranded. You do something else. Maybe I also changed the divisions of that branch and maybe one division of whatever things they do there is, you know what? We're going to really start pushing these things called SSRI's and let nature take its course. No, I'm letting you off that hook. Okay. I'm going to the SSRI's and SNRI's because my wife is on them. Now, so you're running MK Altra. If you read something like Anika Lucas, watch your podcast, Kathy O'Brien, there were truly enormous numbers of kids who are in that program. You got the Gats program, gifted and talented students program, and I was on a podcast with a guy named Monarch Gray, who claims to be a victim. I say claims, if you hear this, Gray, I'm not doubting, I just have to put a question mark on everything in this world. And we did a podcast and I finally said, does everyone involved in this program do they go through torture? He says, yes, everyone. So Anika tells stories that brings podcasters to tears. She says she was in a room with a bunch of these kids. She said she was hungry. The guy leaves the room, comes back, brings a half rotten carcass, makes them all eat it. That's what brainwashing is. They give her, at some point, a puppy. The first thing in her life in any way brings joy. They make her kill it, right? So this is what the psychopaths do to break them. You get the sociable identity disorder. You fracture the personalities. Then you reassemble them and here's, I had an epiphany when I was watching a documentary called The Mind of a Dog. It's about working dogs. You breed them. Some of them flunk out. When you finally get them, you say, okay, we got all these dogs. They're not the same. They're not identical. This blob of a Labrador, let's give that to the guy with PTSD. Let's give this real smart one to the blind woman, right? They pair them up. I think they do that with MK Ultra. So I think, I think born identity, for example, is a documentary. Let's go there. I think Hollywood seems to fictionalize reality to me. Eyes wide shut. They make these stories. The Kubrick thing was a real interesting discussion. You did where Vivian said, no, they didn't cut pieces. That's not relevant to me, because as you said, it's a twisted plot, even if they didn't. That's right. I genuinely don't think it, when you go watch it five times, I genuinely don't think it matters that much. It doesn't matter. I think he really does. I think he does. The message still comes from. Yeah. So if MK Ultra is pervasive, then so now we could play a game. This is like family feud. You stand up there and you got the buzzer and you hit it and he says, you know, name someone who's MK Ultra. Here's what I'll tell you. I think I can spot them, not all of them, obviously. But there's certain personality traits that really jump out of me. So if you watch the, what I'm just a very flat personality, there's a kind of a flatness. You're trying to recover from having your brain fried. You're not exactly going to be perky, right? I watched a woman giving a TED talk on why pedophilia is a choice, right? What is TED doing? I watched it. I realized she's been trafficked. Look at her. She's been trafficked. So then one day. Yeah. You so you saw that someone giving a head talk on it. Yeah, they're trying to just they're trying to downgrade pedophilia to two preference. Yes, I knew you like that story. Um, here's a question. I like to ask people 350,000 kids disappeared coming over the border. Right. Mainstream media doesn't even question that number. They cite it. Have you ever heard mainstream media say where the fuck they go? Nope, but we've done it on this show. Right. And I do it on podcast. It's horrible. I do not believe there's enough purves in the world to consume 350 kids, 350,000 kids a year. If you look at official stats globally, it's like a million, five million. It's all over the place because they're very hard to measure. You go, uh, you know, it's called when when there's a situation where all health breaking loose and the kids are sitting docs. It's called harvest season. Where's harvest season? Well, let's start with Ukraine. There's there's over a million kids. There's there's more than a million kids missing fathers. East block. You talked to Nick Bryant about this. East block is is wildly active for for trafficking and and they don't grab kids off the street in Hoboken. It's not worth it because the whole, the whole community would rise up and try to solve the problem. Right. They just go to some guy. So I'm on a, I'm on a podcast. I'm Tony Schaffer. A zoom call is the same zoom group sender Ron Johnson. Um, um, all the anti-vaxxers Bobby Kennedy. Uh, you name it. They were on it. And Tony Schaffer's an army former armies. Search Tony Schaffer. You'll find S H A F F E R. It's T S Spooky on Twitter. And he is everywhere. He is one of these guys where you see pictures. I'm with rums to all these guys. Right there. He is, he is, he is this guy. Yeah, that's the guy right there. Oh, he, he looks spooky. He's not a, no, he's a good guy. He's a good guy. He's not a colonel. He starts the zoom call saying, I'm not a colonel. They just gave me that rank. And, um, and so I, at the end of his zoom call, I said, Tony, I'm interested in the role of, of trafficking in geopolitics. Why? No one would do that for fun because I've been trying to explain what Brett Brett called the gravitational force. Why are politicians making decisions? It just don't make sense. Yeah. Why? And I figured it's got to be there's something hanging over him. And I got onto this theme. And I couldn't get off it. So Tony Schaffer's on there. I said, Tony, I'm interested in the role of trafficking in geopolitics. He starts talking about Epstein. I should let him keep talking. I thought I understood Epstein. He might have told me some shit. I didn't understand. When was this? This was probably 22 years ago. It was after Epstein died. Yeah. Okay. Um, probably around there. Maybe 2023 for, I don't know. And, and I after he talks a little bit about Epstein, I said, we kind of have a beat on him, although we didn't. I think he, the trafficking and the kids were a smaller percentage of his world. Oh, he did a lot of that too. Yeah. But I'm not sure he's dead, by the way. Neither am I. You know, the funniest conspiracy. Don't let me get distracted from Tony. The funniest conspiracy theory of them all. Funniest, the funniest. This is the funniest. What's the funniest? So you look at Epstein's profile and the gurney, the dead guy, the ear, the ear, the nose, especially. Right. So it's not him. It looks like a substitute. And someone points out, see this guy in the Metz cap right there. And there's a guy sitting in a Metz cap in a game. And you go, that could be him. Couldn't he died two weeks earlier. And, and there wasn't a lot of explanation. What happened? No fanfare. Anything. Hillary's brother. Come on. Yeah. Search Hillary's brother. He died a couple of weeks before Epstein. And I'm sitting there going, okay, low probability, but I'm peeing in my pants every time I think of this. This is funny. So you're sitting there. You're a And you're right there on the left. Tony, right there on the left. So you're at Langley and you go, we need to get a car because it looks like Epstein. And you see that. And you go, oh, we have got to do. We are going to be on the hall of shame. After we write you know, you go, we have got to do this one. Right. That's the place they had to look. Guy right next to the next to Hillary. They couldn't find out. They couldn't find a dead almost guy. Tony, right. I'm Clinton and Epstein just to get. Oh boy. Right there. The middle, right in the middle. Others, I didn't think of this myself. Oh, that's why that's funny in it. That's pretty fucking. That's really funny. So I wrote. I said, I just peed myself. So Tony Shaffer said, okay, let me ask you a simple question. I was testing because I knew the answer. Does the Clinton Foundation traffic children? He said, oh, absolutely. I was with Taibe for dinner one night. And I started to tell a story. And as I said, the Clinton Foundation traffic children, his eyes rolled back in his head. Like, oh, Jesus. And then I said, absolutely. He goes. He looks like holy shit, Matt, Taibe. Yeah. And um, and uh, he had some pretty cold takes on the Epstein stuff. He was like doing content with that fucking retard. What's his name? Don't even matter. I might get the guy. So the Clinton Foundation was all over Haiti. Clinton Foundation members were getting thrown in jail. They were having to bail him out. Laura Sillsby, search Laura Sillsby. Laura Sillsby. Laura Sillsby. Laura Sillsby. She, uh, she several times got thrown in jail for trafficking in Haiti. And she, uh, she got thrown in jail in Haiti. Yeah. It's hard to do. Yeah. Laura Sillsby, the new life children's refuge case was an incident of an alleged kidnapping in the ensuing legal cases, which occurred in the aftermath of the Haiti earthquake in 2010. Right. Harvest season. We call it harvest season. Let me read this for people. This is interesting. On January 29, 2010, a group of 10 American Baptist missionaries from Idaho attempted to cross the Haiti Dominican Republic border with 33 Haitian children. 33. The group. The group known as the new life children's refuge did not have proper authorization for transporting the children and were arrested on kidnapping charges. Missionaries denied any wrongdoing and claimed that they were rescuing orphans and leaving them to the Dominican hotel, which was being transformed into an orphanage. Nine of the 10 missionaries were later released by the NLCR founder, Laura Sillsby. Remained she remained she was the one that remained incarcerated in Haiti. By the time she went on trial on May 13, the charges have been reduced to quote arranging a regular travel unquote. And the prosecution sought a six month prison term on May 17. She was found guilty and sentenced to the time served in jail prior to the trial. So can we Google Laura Sillsby? and get more info on her. She does not have a wiki page. So she was involved with the family. So Laura Sillsby gets married, changes her name. I can't remember what her new name is. What does she do now? She's high ranking, possibly running. I can't remember Amber alert. No fucking way. That's why no fucking way. That's why. This stuff goes on and on and on. That is fucking that, you know, a movie I think about more and more. For the symbolism that I thought had crazy symbolism when I watched it years ago and didn't think about any of this stuff. But a movie that I think I missed the irony of was usual suspects. So that's the one where spoiler alert right here where Kevin Spacey plays plays plays plays, but he just ignore that for a second. He plays it. He plays a cripple. And he's in the middle of all these criminals who were doing all these crimes for this guy Kaiser Sozeh who no one sees and he's all powerful. And the whole movie is Chaz Pomonteri is a detective sitting here with this cripple in his office and interrogating him about the things he witnessed when he was around all these other criminals and he's like, alright, get out of here. And then he realizes that's Kaiser Sozeh and the movie ends with Kevin Spacey's feet walking like a cripple and then slowly normalizing and he walks away smoking a cigarette because he was hiding in plain sight. And it's like, I'm gone. And what the older I get the more I realize most evil does hide that most is a strong word. A lot of evil hides directly in plain fucking sight. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You're still trying to find a death. Well, she changed her name. Oh, she changed her name. Yeah, she got married. Oh, okay, well. Since her release from detention in Haiti, Lara has returned to Idaho in 2015. She married and took the name Gailer. Sills be as currently employed by software company alert sense as their vice president marketing alert sense works with the federal government on feet on FEMA's integrated public alert and warning system. One of iPod's functions is to issue Amber alert stirring kidnapping. Now here's one of it. If you want to find pedophiles, you find organizations that are charged with taking care of children. I think they have been filtered. the mall. I think you're right. So the number of kids that are missing every year is a number that's so enormous and so amorphous because you don't actually know which number is right, but it's somewhere between mid-six digits to mid-single-digit millions, six digits, hundred thousands to millions. I don't think there's that many pervs. I don't think these kids are locked in basements. I think they're being consumed. Consumed. Well, there are there appear to be cannibalistic people. Yeah, there's a ton of cannibals are known. Jerky, right? The jerky story, which came out of nowhere. I don't know anyone who knew about the word jerky. As someone who is obsessively looked at this case for at that point, it had been about six and a half years by that point because I really started looking at it when he died, like heavy. I will tell you as dark as I already thought it was and I thought it was dark as fuck. The emails opened up an extra door of things that are at least possibly true. That's right. That made me go what in the ever-living fuck is going on. So here's where Brett tells something very important and that is he basically says, you can't dismiss something. Yes, right? Yes. So you now have a hypothesis. The question is you have to dismiss it for other theories to hold up for a theory to hold up. So at one point, it was claimed that nine shootings in a row are transgender. That's not possible. I'll tell you what's not possible. January 6th, AI says we're about six to 80 cops on duty, right? It was really understaffed. There's the guy who was said to be killed by virtue of the crowd. That's not true. The family said, no, he didn't get killed by the crowd, but it is mysterious. He went home that night and then died. That's kind of weird. Right. He has 45 cops are generally pretty tough. Yeah. Four more committed suicide. Five out of 60 are dead. I don't need any theory or any hypothesis to know that that number is wrong. And people say, well, it's really traumatic. I go, traumatic, traumatic going into a trailer park and breaking up a fight. That crowd was the most cop-friendly crowd ever assembled. Now, they got into scuffles, but those guys were all pro-cop. There were so many people in that crowd who would have protected a cop if tempers weren't flaring, right? I admit tempers flare, but that can happen between friends, right? Yeah. My friend, my friend Brandon Buckingham was there as a journalist that day, just like the rally. Right. You know, not taking a side or anything, just like their scam friend for YouTube. And when I had, when I had Brandon here two and a half years ago, it came up on the podcast because he released a video on it and everything. He never went into the capitol or anything like that, but he was like right there. And, you know, I, there were dots on it that I'm like, well, you know, why the fuck were people there? This, that, and the third, what we talked about on the podcast for a little bit went back and forth, but then we really talked about it off the podcast and the stuff he saw. And that really made me step back and be like, all right, let's get a little humble on this. Maybe some, I'd seen sketchy things. I'd seen like the cops just open up the gates and stuff like that. Like there were stuff, this stuff, definitely like, hey, this wouldn't be the worst thing to happen. Well, also, the fact they did that meant that people walk in and shouldn't have been arrested, right? That's what, that's what, that's important. Yes, but beyond that, all the other stuff to you, you even want to get to the Ashley Babet stuff, which in the past, it seemed like pretty cut and dry to me. I started, yeah, I started going, you know, maybe I don't fucking know on this. And you, and that's the thing. Like, you don't want to default to automatically being the opposite on stuff. I'm very careful with that. I follow the evidence, but when new evidence comes up on things or evidence that I looked at previously, where I was only shown this and not the full picture, you have to be, it doesn't matter if you're sitting in my seat or whatever. Like if you're anybody and you talk about these things with your friends or whatever, you got to be willing to be like, all right, maybe, maybe that's not what I thought. And just step back and let more things come out. And that's one of those for more comes out. Just passively observe. Yeah. And then, and then sometimes the plot just naturally thickens. And, and sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes, I don't know what it is that lights me up. For example, the Charlie Kirk story that has lit me up. One of the reasons is, is because it is either Tyler Robinson, plain and simple lone gunman and crazy kid, with that 10,000 mile stare, that's the same 10,000 mile stare as other people that you see. Or it's a very complicated conspiracy, very complicated. The feds have been lying. The state governor was lying. The Israelis are probably lying. You know, it gets, and that to me seems really important when you start whacking important people in our country. Yeah. And so that's why that's important to me. The guys, here's, here's their, there's a Rorschach test for Twitter. When I see someone, I think you can look at the Tyler Robinson case and think he did it. I don't have a problem with that. I don't think it's possible to look at it and not see that that is on thin ice. I don't think it's possible to look at the day. Oh, I agree. It's on very thin. When you see the person come out and say overwhelming evidence, he did it. That person, my opinion, is lying. I agree. Now, that tells you who are, who we're getting the memo. And one thing that troubled me, so on day on Twitter, Megan Kelly showed up, right? I don't know if you get this effect, but everyone's smile, you get when you go, oh, that's Bingo, right? I just won Twitter Bingo, Megan Kelly, right? That's general. Yeah, general Flynn, right? Oh, that's Twitter Bingo, right? So once I get followed by someone and you go, holy fuck, I did not see that one coming, right? And she showed up. And I'm saying, this is great. And then, and she was calling Spade a spade on some stuff. Now, I'll tell you the one thing she did do, she did a tremendously bad cover-up of James Alaphantis about some number of years ago. James Alaphantis is pizza boy. And it was totally designed to try to shut down that narrative. It was so obvious to me. James Alaphantis is a very dark and sketchy guy. I think pizza is very real. You do? Yes, I do. And you know, the guy who slowly shot up the place, hit one hard drive, then he turns back. He's dead, though. Oh, what are the odds? Just tie up the loose ends. Alaphantis had a had a had a was it? I don't remember what the account was, not Twitter, but something else. He was Jimmy Comet. And there's all these pictures and they're sick fucking pictures. How does that as a scientist looking at it? And it's not like this is your area of expertise, science. How is a human being become interested in that? I think the psychopaths are probably pretty genetic. You think it's I think, but what is that? Psychopathy, sociopathy, if it's genetic, obviously like very bad. We can go through everything that is. But what about that then? It's correlated with with with infants. It's coming up like 20 different ways. What is that? Okay, he's going to keep trying. What how is that those all objectively bad things associated with those correlated with something like being attracted to children? I can't remember when recently said it pretty well. That's the interesting Eric Weinstein said it without providing details. But I think you get to a point where you can bang any chick you want. You can buy anything you want. You can do anything you want. We all need neurotransmitters. We all need something that lights our brain up. And when the normal things are no longer capable of doing it, I think you start digging deeper. I've been acquaintance who ran an addiction clinic and he said he thought that addiction correlated well with deficient neurotransmitters so that you're going for the neurotransmitters with the drugs. The people who are really prone to addiction. And I think people are really prone to addiction. Others are not. We can all become junkies, but I don't think I think there's tremendous different response to my wife has been on killer pain killers 30 years. She can not take them. She can just not take them. She never uses a prescription up completely. For 30 years, hide your morphine, things like that. Do you mind me ask them why she's oh she's had many, many surgery. She had a bad accident. She was 15. She has terrible health problems. And so she doesn't have an addictive personality. So let's let's talk about the healthcare system. Yeah. She probably I hope she doesn't marches to get mad at me. They put her because the pain management. I mean, she had her spine fuse or neck fuse broken bones. I won't tell you the number of surgeries online, but oh, I did it online. Clip that. Yeah, we'll just switch the camera to me. About to have a hip replacement. And they put her on a fixer. 25 years ago, high dose, because there's some evidence that it helps pain management. She has a morphine pump embedded in her abdomen, goes straight to her spine. What no one told her is you can't get off of a fixer. You're better off. I don't want you want to say the drug because we know it gets bleached. Harlan, you'd be better off being on heroin. I guarantee you'd be better off being on heroin. And so she also has this thing where she can start vomiting for no reason. I actually think it's a seizure. I finally figured that out after about 20 years. It was episodic a couple of months. And when that would happen, she couldn't take her effectser. And that was closing promises. She said, I want to get off the effectser. We read the standard protocol. And they tell you to taper off it. If you follow standard protocol, you will never get off it. There is not a snowball's chance in hell you'll get off it. And then I started digging deeper. You want to find out about a drug. You don't ask Mayo Clinic. You don't ask any of those. You find the consumer. So I have this recommendation. Go, if you ever take a new drug, go on Twitter and search the drug name. Start reading tweets. You will find the consumers. If you search effectser, you will find lives ruined. So you will find people who said, I spent a year getting off the effectser. I got to the point where I was breaking up in the capsule and counting the little nodules tapering by one little nodule per week. So we're down to like half a milligram from 200 milligrams. Whoa. So my wife went off it over eight weeks, not knowing. Complete disaster. Disaster. Disaster. So that's when I really dug in. And I actually did, you know, with enough followers, I can get a lot of help. And you find this awful. I had a, I was on a Zoom call with Peter Bregan, who's a world famous psychologist when I told her she was trying to detox off a factory grimace. It is the hardest. And it reached a point where I've found some doctors who are addressing this seriously. And I didn't even tell her this. Some percentage of people if they try to go off it and they can't. And they really, this is not weak will. No, no, no. It will not let you go. So I was running into people saying I went off and fix her 10 years ago and it's ruined my life. 10 years later. And so he said some people when they go back on it, doesn't work. So I didn't bother to tell her that because that was our next option. So she's 75, put her back on it. She came right back. But I don't think she would have survived three more months. Whoa. And she's put up with horrible health problems. Yeah. But I think she would have survived three more months now. Yeah. The healthcare system created this. Well, part of it's the doctors prescribe it and they have no idea what they're doing. That's right. Right. And you got a whole generation of boomer doctors who retired. Tonight I got a bunch of guys who were, who were trained formulaically. What do you mean formulaically? They're told, let's go to the statins. This is formulaic. You get your blood tested. Your cholesterol counts too high. They put down statins. I knew from years ago that they had shown that high cholesterol did correlate with heart attacks. Statins did correlate with lower cholesterol. But they had never shown that by stepping on the statins, you reduced heart attacks and death. They just inferred that critical gap. Now what people, so I went out, so her doctor wanted to put her on statins. This is, I don't know, two months ago. This is the reason. I said, she gave her prescription. I said, don't take them. We're going, we were already going to a vein expert because one of the things that triggered the awareness was she was getting her feet hurt. And it turns out she was only getting about 50% circulation. Now one leg. The leg has been beaten to shit. She's had knee reconstructions and all sorts of stuff. So, so we went to it and I said, don't touch those statins. We go to the expert and he said, there's no case for statins here. Your knee's banged up. This is why your your circulation sucks. You know, you look at the data and I told, tell me about the cholesterol level. He said, that's stupid. So I said, okay, we're done. Her doctor still wanted her to go on statins. We dumped her doctor. Now, quick fix. I went on Twitter and I said, have you or a family member been on statins and what's your experience? It's a pretty open-ended question. I got about 500 answers. I would say 495 of them or don't touch those motherfuckers. People talked about huge pain problems, lower extremities, a friend of mine, I have coffee with every Saturday. I've mentioned this story to him. He said, oh yeah, I went on. My hand swelled up and everything. It was a horror story. Probably five people said no problem. But we're kind of drawn out the people who are pissed. So I did it another way. I love Twitter polls. So I did a Twitter poll and I said, help resolve an issue here. Has a family member you've been on statins and what is your experience with the statins? And then the choices were no experience. Show me the answer basically. No side effects, minor side effects, major side effects. 62% major side effects. Samplesize 2000. The side effects that's evil because the pain you go, oh fuck, I'm going off the statin because you can correlate it. You can say, I started taking the statins, my fucking hands blew up. Early onset dementia. Real fast. The reason is your brain. You know, I have cholesterol. Your brain needs cholesterol. When they're stepping on your cholesterol, this is not a surgical stepping. This is a body slam stepping. You don't know how it's disrupting your cholesterol function. Boom, I had people saying, look, my wife went on it and she was choose non-functional within six months. So the statin story is a nightmare. I would never, ever go on set. Now, here's a deal. If you are in a family where three family members died at 40 from heart attacks and shit like that, I say, well, first of all, get some stents and shit, right? Do the surgical drill. But I'm willing to consider that one if your cholesterol is sitting at 400. Because your cholesterol threshold, which by the way has steadily dropped as the critical threshold over the last 30 years, started at like 300, went to 250, went to 200, went, and and and and and and. Pretty soon they're telling everyone they need statins because they're psychopaths. The doctors don't realize they're buying into and one day our doctor who I do like said, well, we follow protocols and that it just clicked. If her cholesterol goes low and goes high, the protocols does do it. You don't do it. You broke from protocol. You might get in trouble. Oh, you didn't vaccinate your patient. You might lose your job, right? They've learned that you don't step out of line. It's a group think nightmare. Do you think that because we kind of got off this earlier, but you were talking about how you saw COVID early and what was going on there and you are as a chemistry professor, like this is your strength. I just sense something was wrong with the narrative. Now here's what happened. I had to give up my job or get faxed. I got faxed. Now people thought that was a cowardly thing to do. I go, you know what cowardly is? The cowardly part is me imagining sitting there with my wife five years later. And we're saying we should pay for all the grandchildren's college education. And me saying, well, I quit five years ago. And I'm not sure we can, you know, pound out of million five to cover these college educations because because I had a hunch that a vaccine that ended up saving the world would hurt me. I'm going, I don't want to be fine. I don't want to be in that position either. So I waited to see if people were dying and they didn't appear to be. I was wrong. They were dying. I read all the Pfizer papers. My doctor zoom worked five hours a week for weeks and weeks and weeks hearing the stories about what was happening. You talked to some of your people Pfizer too. No. I do talk to friends in pharma and they're kind of siloed. They don't even talk about it at the pharma. They don't sit there a lunch talking about it even. That's the interesting. I think it's because they know in their heart if you start talking about it, you're going to be jobless if you're not careful. That is so dark though. The fact that you can't Can't talk about something that should tell you all you need to know. That's right. We can imagine why Pfizer employees talking about the Pfizer vaccine killing people might be a problem, right? You can eat a batch of that. So the bottom line is we all understand though. Now you say, "I should Twitter feed." It's 150,000 people, right? And most of them are there because I shit on the fed and things like that. So people are getting it. You know, Yaskovat 9/11, they're getting it. Not sure they'd all vote for dancing Israelis, but they're getting it. Now here's one I want to take to you. Take it to the head buddy. Do you say this stuff in faculty meetings? No. I was going to say this. When I got off Tucker, I was telling colleagues, a shitty set off camera. I wasn't going to say anything. But he actually had a couple of podcasts afterwards to kind of put it officially on camera. Somehow I tweaked him with a satanic tweak where I poked him and said something about satanic. To your colleagues. No, to Tucker. To Tucker. And he went off. He says, "Oh my God." He was way worse than me. And he goes, "Oh my God." And they're everyone. He says, "I know these people." I know him. Right. And I had this great conversation and a staff was sitting there, bug, I they'd never heard this shit before. Right. And so it was amazing actually. So I'm telling my colleagues this and they were laughing at me and they're going, so that was when he was off his meds and I said, "So let me see if I got this right. You think you understand how the world works better than Tucker Carlson?" Sitting in a building in Ithaca, New York. You had a better view of the world than Tucker Carlson. It's out there on the map. Yeah. So we just went and I just went up there to tell a dig of false. Right. It's very beautiful. The gigantic false. The gigantic false. The gigantic false is amazing. And us. It's beautiful. It is beautiful. It's out there. You know what I mean? You're not necessarily in the. Now I'm going to hit Julian right in the bread basket. Okay. Lindsay Clancy. I totally have no problem with any of your views. I have a little problem with it, but Brett did a kind of an interesting thing. He said, "Let's say he was with Chris Martensen doing a podcast with like, I don't remember the house." He said, "Let's say the host slips me a drug and I am fried and I look at you and you look like a polar bear coming at me and I kill you." How guilty am I? It's kind of an interesting thought experiment. It's an interesting thought experiment. Right. Right. So, Lindsay Clancy, it goes deeper than the things you talk about. You might know about it, but it goes deeper. So, I'm looking at Lindsay Clancy. I see that the 10-mile stare. It doesn't help her that she has permanent bitch face. I don't think she always does, but all the photos overdue. And you show that video where she's just staring at the jury and staring and staring and staring. Right. I mean, that looks like Evelyn, kind of. It does. And then one day, so my first visceral response was, forget about what you do with her, was she killed her three kids. She threw herself out of window. Insanities are pretty easy, so right? And it doesn't solve the problem of what you do with her. Here's a question for you. What was the best outcome for her legally? Let's start with that one. So, she could have been acquitted on all counts, never going to happen. Well, not by the time I went to trial, it was just going to be one or the other. So, is either going to be guilty or acquitted by virtue of insanity or? Well, it was either going to be guilty, go to prison, or not guilty by reason of insanity. Or a jury. Go to mental hospital. A jury. Or a hunter. Now, I did a little digging. Turns out it's a pretty clear path to go from guilty by virtue of insanity straight to an insane asylum. What happens with the hung jury? I don't know. That's a good point, isn't it? Now, there is a path supposedly that you can then get hurt to the asylum. But it's possible her best outcome was not guilty by virtue of insanity, but the hung jury. Now, you're a prosecutor. You just lost 11 to one. Yeah. You're going to prosecute that again? They're going to have to. They're going to have to do something. And also like, it's just, it's just trying to brand in. Now, let me tell you something. Branding matters. They better have new prosecutors on it because those are some fucking damp ass rags prosecutors. Well, let me tell you some of the things that make my blank moment. Okay. Her husband started dating his now wife within a year. And I'm sitting there going, okay, let's say he could somehow pull it off. She's not exactly fishing in the right end of the gene pool. Some guy who just had his three kids go, you're really taking on a big fucking job if you take on that guy. Amen. Love to fix men. I always say men fix car women fix men. Yeah. Women right to fix men. But still, sir, it's really in my head. There's a woman I want to give her credit, although I'm not sure it's original to her because I did some Twitter searching and found similar stories who did a blog. A woman named Morgan C, 0, 0, 0, 0, boot that up. I'm going to show you some cool stuff. This doesn't in any way resolve the question of whether she should be locked up for the rest of her life. This is more of what's underneath the surface of this story. Why can't I see our screen? It's on. Okay. Now, go to the attached tweet. There's your blog. The attached tweet. I agree with the idea right there in the sci-op. Right there. No, no, you had it. You had it. I think you had it. Keep going down now. Go down where there's a blonde chick. Keep going all the way down. There's a blonde chick who's testifying. Keep going down. Keep going down. That chick. Okay. Go back. Go down. I think you got to go down. Keep going. There's a video of her. Right there. Right there. Click the video and play a few seconds of it. Okay. All right. We'll do this. This is a chaplain met with her 200 times. That's about how nice she is. Okay. The tool that we moved, she was able to communicate, and that was her January 31st. I believe she was extubated the weekend of the 28th, but I didn't work that weekend. So I saw her untused at the 31st. Yeah. You see this? Yeah. Keep going. Tell the mirror is what you observed and what, if any conversation you had with Lindsay on the 31st. Let me ask you how long had it been that they removed? I think that's enough. She talked her 200 times. She talks about how she said her children were safe with God, just to make her feel better, how she was grieving blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What is her training? You know what her training is? It's unbelievable. She has an MBA from Columbia. She has another graduate degree from Yale. She has a senior VP of Fidelity, and she's Lindsay Clancy's chaplain. Now, now go up. Go up. You'll see an old man testifying. You'll see a picture of an old man. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. That guy. That guy was the defense's witness talking about her insanity. I'll go down. Who's that guy? There he is with Oliver North, an old general Ali, a land contract Ali. So keep going. Keep going. I mean, her resume is amazing. It turns out that following this case, there's all sorts of companies being started up within the medical system that Lindsay was involved in. Being software to detect problems with pregnant women, and it's all interconnected and it has fidelity connected and there's so many people interconnected. You know what? You're not going to love this. Oliver North's mother's maiden name was Clancy. I have no idea if that's anything to do with anything, but you just go boom, right? So then there's donors and they're donors from medical groups and keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. There's definitely some sort of sigh out for sure. Right. And all these hospitals all have a stake in the creation of the software to protect families and women from postpartum depression and stuff like that. And I'm going. And then it turns out that there's other cases just like it, women, three kids. This is the door to Narnia. Yeah. This is the wormhole to another universe. Yes. Yep. So then you go back to the 10,000 mile stair. So I think it's possible that she was teed up to not be convicted, to not be acquitted, to hang the jury and you watch the jurors and there's something fake about them too. There's something about the jurors that smells wrong. They're not sending their best. Well, the woman who said, the woman, mind boggling, when the woman, go look at that picture. - When the lady said he just couldn't-- - She was wet hair, what the fuck? - So she couldn't, she couldn't get over that Lindsey viciously killed her bitch. That was so great though, she said that. - What a dumb bitch. - How can you say that, right? So she-- - They also found out she was like a true crime junkie and like, activists in the whole bit. - So how much would you be willing to, what odds would you take that Lindsey Clancy? Was I okay, ultra? - It's not impossible. It's not impossible. I asked how broadly based it is. - Yeah, I just think, you know, that doesn't get off the hook. - It was, and also to say nothing of this whole thing about the funding and what they're gonna use it for, it was also a sigh up at distraction and society for sure. I hated that we had to talk about it. You know, we did, there were two episodes in a row on our weekend episodes where we really had to cover it. - But we have to know what's happening to us. - And that's what I'm saying, like the second one, I did it at the 57 minute mark and that was very deliberate. Like, Dief and I had it ready to go to like, go through and I'm like, we're gonna hold off on doing that and cover the important stuff first because that's part of what they want. They want to piss people off. It blew my mind like, it's never enough for people. That's my big thing and that's the thing I'm constantly watching on. I can sit here and say, so many of the narratives were given our lives. And I think I'm factually backed by a ton of that. What I don't want to do is then automatically assume every single thing I ever see before I review any evidence is a hundred percent a lot. - That's why I call it a bias for MK Ultra. - Exactly. So, you know, that's what blew my mind about this case. How much there were these like women who I felt like when I looked at the patterns or just people that don't have enough going on in their lives. It wasn't enough for them. - They could be a T up though too. - Exactly, it wasn't enough for them that like, you know, there were some bad things that happened to her, which I agree with, it had to be, oh no, her husband actually fucking dead. - Did you see the black chick who said, we have to remember there's black women in prison for killing her children. - Oh, different on Oprah, dude. And she was like, I just want to have this same energy. I'm like, what the fuck is going on in that household? - I think we're being played. - I think we're totally being played. It's just, so you didn't let on to that. - Let on to what? - When you were ranting about Lindsey Clancy should be sent away forever, right? - And I understood that. - What do you mean I didn't let on to what? - You didn't let on to the, you didn't let on to the fact that you knew this story had sketchiness. - Oh no, I said that very blatantly. Every time we talked about it. - Yeah, I was very clear. - I might have missed that podcast. - Yeah, no, no, no, there's some, 'cause there's some people like, that then took that out of context. One thing that I am extremely, extremely fucking on the mark about as much as I can is always given the context of what I'm thinking while I'm actually getting to the thing we're thinking of. - Who is playing you? - Exactly, and I said that. I'm like, this is why it's a distraction. This is what it is. And by the way, I have this amazing superpower. I don't know if you're aware of this. It's like incredible. - You have several. - It makes me Batman. But in the year 2026, I can hold two thoughts at the same time. That's a fucking superpower. 'Cause apparently no one can fucking do that anymore. I say that totally. - Eric Donald said, an educated man can entertain a thought without endorsing him. - I mean, holy shit. And people on this one, their brains were broken. And that's why it was so fascinating to me. But there's no doubt. It's like, you know, we're talking about this instead of Leon Black suing Congress. - I know. - 'Cause that's what was happening. - You know why, I don't care about that. - Why don't you care about that? - Because nothing's gonna happen. - I hate that you're right. - Nothing's gonna happen. - You're absolutely right. - It's still fuck you. The last guy important guy went to prison for anything. Can you think of who the last guy went to prison for anything? - Like a big guy. - A big guy important guy. - Yeah, I'm sure I could think of people. But Bernie made off a good guess. He might have been considered expendable. - That's what I'm saying. Anyone that does. - That any pastor for dittling children, speaker of the house. - Yeah, expendable. - But he only went away for about five months. - It doesn't matter. He still went away, but it's he's expendable. - Right. - Right. - Yeah, I totally agree. It's the people that are expendable and a lot of the evil that exists among elites and stuff like that are people whose names we don't even fucking know. - Also, the people up there who are not themselves inherently evil are tolerating it. - Yeah, 100%. - They gotta all know how much alcohol. - This is what I'd love to know from someone like you who looks at things so deeply and ask questions on all of it and you're also not 20. - You know, you've seen a lot of shit, right? What do you think like all the symbolism is? Like how deep and far back does it go? Because I find myself wondering about secret societies, about ancient things that are passed down in an evil way. - Yeah, more locked. - How deep is one deep, look up London Olympics, opening ceremony, 2012. - 2012. You've seen that? - It's been a while. It's satanic, the opening ceremony is all Satan, the whole thing Satan. - In 2012. - In 2012, the London Olympics. - What about, I don't know. - It's demon, it's kids and beds in the infield and demons haunting them. And this big gigantic demon hanging over them. Look. - What the fuck? - Yeah, you should, I've got some videos on that one that are extraordinary and you go, what the fuck are you doing? - Can we get a video of this on YouTube, Steve? - Yeah. - I just showed him five days ago. - Yeah, Diffle get it, he found the images. - And they hot the kids, the kids are in bed and they're pajamas. It's so strange. - Where does that come from? - Who thinks that's a good ceremony? - Right, right. - But where does that come from? - That having a tranny do a gelatin probably. - Where does that come from though, Dave? Like, is that, is that a couple? - What's the demon saying in the keyword? Is that a couple people who can't be just a cop, no, no, but I'm saying, does it start with a couple people who have a lot of power to say, oh, you should go take a look at this to someone else who goes, yes, ma'am. - Yeah, yeah. - Right. - Is that how it happens? - There we go. Voldemort at the Olympics, this is in 2012. - Yeah, it's a great opening ceremony for an Olympics and there's a little child in a bed, holy shit. - Yeah, oh yeah, that's really great. - What the fuck is that? - And there's also micro demons, people-sized demons running around haunting them too. - What? - And there's nurses saying they're doing this. Watch this, there's nurses sitting there doing this. Acting like robots, it's just, it's so surreal. And then you look at the opening ceremony from the last Olympics where they had-- - In 2014. - Oh god. - I was hilarious. - Oh god, and some guys got his dick hanging out and stuff. I mean, it's just crazy. - But that's what I'm saying, how far back does this go? - Well, so I think, I've got an acquaintance who sends me shit from Belgium. I think some of it goes back centuries. I find my hunch is that if you could dig back there, you'll lose any audience you want to have. And if you do this and you want to tell people this exists, you don't want to lose your audience. So I think the further back you go, the more people can just say that's the olden days. And so I think you have to stay focused on more in the present, but for example, I think the Royal Family screw up. King Charles was had four major mentors. And one was Lord Mount Botan, who was a total pedophile. And then there's two others, I can't remember their name. And then there's Jimmy Savo. - Jimmy Savo, who's good to me. - And Jimmy Savo was the most famous pedophile in Europe's history. - You ever see a guy assume you've seen the documentary on Netflix? - I'm sure I have, I'm sure I have. - If you out there listening right now, have not seen that, go watch that. - That's right. - It's fucking insane. - Right, so everyone knew he was a pedophile. He's pedophile to the stars. There's pictures of him and King Charles all over the place. So you know he stuck it up King Charles's ass when King Charles was young. You know he did. You know Mount Botan did. And then you wonder about Prince William and Prince Harry and right, right. And so I think the Royal Family's host, if you ever seen the video, the kid trying to escape from Buckingham Palace by tying feasts together. And he falls to his death. - No. - Yeah, that's an amazing one. - Don't put him on the screen, but maybe let's get this. - Yeah, don't put him on the screen. - Yeah, well we can watch it, but we won't put him on the screen for other people 'cause I don't get us nuked. But if that video exists, what the fuck? What is that? - So I think the entire Royal Family's host, I think they probably have web feet. You know, I think they're probably just inbred beyond belief. - Well, that's probably genetically backed, yeah. - Yeah, and so I think Europe has a worse problem than us because Europe has bloodlines called. So I was on a Zoom call with Archbishop Carlo Maria Vagano. - Wait, oh no, I'm thinking so much. It's not coming to the viral video. Someone escaping Bugham House is a hoax and does not show a child falling to his death. That's from Google. The clip was created in 2015. It's a viral marketing stunt for the El Network Scripted Drama Series, The Royals. What the video just picks an adult man, not a child climbing out of a window using a bed sheet before a fuck falling. Social media posts have repeatedly shared the old promotional. That's one of those things. - Well, if you find it, you can just side whether that looked like an adult to you. - Yeah, decide for yourself. - What's a naked adult doing climbing out the window, right? - Yeah, it's interesting. - Oh, deep got it. Yeah, so we're not showing it on screen for obvious reasons. - That. Oh, that's interesting. - Could be, I guess. - Could be, but it's weird. - It's strange. - It's weird. Supposedly died. It's weird. So the bloodlines in Europe, I think are a big problem. - The bloodlines are a problem. - I think that you lose your audience when you start digging into that stuff because the further, it's like, talking about the Mayans, no one cares, right? Okay, they rip hearts out and ate them and whatever, right? If we're to name. Back to MKL. - You're such a good, like, Sunday podcast after a long time. - Yeah, I know, I know, the Lord, a bolt of lighting. - Yeah, yeah, you're. - I'm like waking me up from a stupor. - There's a woman named Elizabeth Nixon who was doing a podcast with a friend of mine and the next week I did a podcast, he says, "Tell me about her podcast." He did. Name is Elizabeth Nixon and I see KSON. She's, in the middle of this podcast, I started talking about MK Ultra. She was head of Time Magazine, European Division. She was big in journalism. Her mother gets taken up to Canada to be brainwashed. And my friends tell me this, Jim Cunsellorne, he's telling me this and I said, "Yeah, up to McGill University." He goes, "How do you know that?" And I said, "That's where they did it." McGill University, you in Cameron, the whole in Jalana, they fried brains up there routinely. And she said she took three years off from her work to study MK Ultra. - This lady, Elizabeth Nixon, yes. - Took three weeks off from where it was. - Can we hit her Wikipedia? We'll give her some. Let's see what's. Well, it's on the right side, Defeat, sir. Let's see what CIA has to say about her. So, Elizabeth Nixon, well, it is. - Is she a singer in here? - Larry Sanger. - Larry Sanger. - He started Wikipedia. - Oh, wait, but the other guy's Jimmy Wales who runs it now, right? - Yeah, well Larry Sanger will tell you how bad it's gone. - Okay, so Elizabeth Nixon is a Canadian writer and journalist in the late 1980s and early 1990s. She was European Bureau Chief of Life Magazine in '94. All right, so Noth and Stato published her novel, The Monkey Puzzle Tree, an account of the CIA brainwashing trials and Montreal and the '50s and '60s. - There you go. - In 2012 Harper Collins published her eco-fascist, how radical conservations are destroying our natural heritage under editor Adam Bellows and Print Broadside Books. And then she wrote a series of papers for the Canadian Think Tank Frontier Center for Public Policy, detailing the implication of environmental land use in Canada. And she's also written for the Guardian Harper's Magazine, the Sun that she's been-- - She's bigly, yeah. - She's bigly, right? So far, I'm passing the test on your fact check here. This is going pretty well. - Well, that's the CIA's fact check, too. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - That's like a double layer. - Yeah, but think of me lying to us. Let's start with that. - That is true. - She starts talking about how her mother was brainwashed. By the way, I have a close friend who's grandfather disappeared for two years, came back to Scramble Brain. He thinks they got him. - Scramble father? - Because my friend's grandfather got taken, disappeared and came back two years later without explanation completely out. - Interesting. - So she starts talking about it and then she starts talking and I was on this one. I was watching this one going, "I think there's a story here." She says, "The person who has all the traits is Kamala Harris." Menturian candidate. - They didn't do a very good job on her. Well, I was picking up from what other people were saying, but I started thinking about it and I go, she seems very playful, but she could be personality switching. So just those identities, they break into like 10 personalities. They then reassemble them into something they can use. What's critical is you're talking to Deaf, not knowing that there's nine other guys in that skull of his and Deaf does not know they're there. - He doesn't know they're there. - He is and Deaf. He's Deaf. - That's right. - It's the other nine. - Have you met Darnel Thomas? - This is not just a spike. This is not a documentary. You haven't met Darnel? Deaf's got like 99 other ones up there. - And so I did a Zoom call with Kathy O'Brien and Juliet Angle. And Kathy, Juliet Angle was, became a doctor. They don't want dumb people. They don't need stupid people. There are no value. You need smart people. Juliet Angle was a doctor had no memories of her childhood. None. And then they started to pop back. Now Kathy talks about how the brainwashing starts kind of wearing off like the Pavlovian response stops working. They often off you when you get to that stage. You're no longer useful. So Kathy was supposed to be off. Her claim is that a guy named Palmer rescued her. They couldn't get the rest of her family out of the system. Kathy's been given talks and they shit for 30 years. - Where did you rescue her from? - The program. Now, as Nick will tell you, Nick Bryant, their facts are not always very good because they had to retrieve them from the depths, right? And so you can't judge them if they get shit wrong and if they're a little crazy and stuff like that. You really have to use other criteria. Kathy, Juliet said she started getting ideas back. Now Kathy said she got rescued by the CIA guy. And it sounds like a romance, which is a little weird. And when I read the book, I remember thinking the guy wrote, Palmer wrote the first two chapters from his perspective and Kathy wrote the rest or narrated the rest was audiobook. And then the end, it kind of just ended. It was oddly no conclusion. It was something seemed wrong to me. Now, I don't want a question, Kathy. And this actually doesn't question her. Questions, Palmer. I run across this 2002 blog that says he didn't rescue her. He's her new handler. And I go, could be, what am I supposed to do with that? But it doesn't negate her claims of what happened to her. But she's just been reassigned. So she was controlled. She was, they tend to be owned. The victim, there's a woman named Emma Pranore on Twitter who interviews survivors. - Yeah, I'm familiar with Emma. - Yeah. I often ask Emma for help on something. So one day I'm watching, this is, I'm really, this is schizophrenia and so on for him. I'm watching, let's talk about who I think is the best, the best candidate period bar none for having had her brain scrambled. Erica Kirk. She's got nothing going on up there that makes any sense to me. She can't show emotion. - Yeah, she can't show emotion. - She's never cried. She can't keep the facts straight, but don't forget if different personalities are talking, they're not going to know the facts or the other personalities and stuff like that. And you got this whole traces back to Romania and orphanages and child traffic and stuff. These stories are wild. - Now. - She showed up in some documentaries that like-- - Yeah, CIA document, her mother's deep state all the way, things like that. There's this weird story of another woman named Kirk. Kirk, named Kirk, who looks just like her from a generation back who is a wife of a, and you go, what is going on here? This one, he seems for you. I have no idea what to do with anything like that. So in any event, someone, when she gave the speech in the memorial service, which she switches so quickly, she went from suffering to serious, to suffering to serious. She wiped a tear from her face eight times. All on the left side. - Yeah, and they weren't there. - They weren't real tears. She's never, I've shot a picture of Nixon on Twitter when his wife died. I go, that's what grief looks like. Nixon looks like he is just dying. - Yes, yeah. - And you're sitting there and you're in a memorial service for your lost husband, you've got kids at home, which by the way, I'm not convinced that's true. I am not convinced she has kids. You ever seen a picture of her kids? Boot up Erica Kirk's kids. - I've seen it where their faces are. - Now, paparazzi, no one catches them, go into an airport or anything. No one. - Yeah, the pictures are always the kids are turned, they were turned around like that. - Yeah, that's AI. - That's AI, yeah. They're trying to deal with the kids' faces missing thing. And one of the reasons you would do that is because if the kids were a prop, and by the way, where are they while she's running around doing this shit, right? - Yeah. - She's been, I mean, I was, I mean, she's whacked out of her mind. - Yeah, I waited a long time out of respect for the process to see if something would change to say anything on that. But, I mean, I've told the story now a lot publicly, Danny Jones will test to it. I was on to her the first time she came out two days after he died and went to do that live stream. And it's what you said. Your eyes sometimes are just like, I will not let this deceive me, that's not real. - And your Baron Coleman Morgan podcast was phenomenal. - Thank you. - Well, and we talked about in our podcast where I was like a do-over, too, in the sense that Morgan needed a better setup to do it right. - So he didn't need it. - He kind of walked into a mess. He didn't realize what some mess was. - Yeah, and that was totally my fault 'cause the first podcast I did with him, I'm not a fucking expert on the case at all. And he looks at 100, 150 cases at a time. So there were like one or two details that like he didn't have the full context on and then no one listened to a goddamn thing he said after that. So I felt- - Well, it was a non-forensic statement that he made. Like, they have videos of him, you know, walking, he just assumed they were valid. - Right, yeah, 100%. - And that got him on a shit list so fast. - Yes, yes. I was way better, I watched you show. signs of realizing that this had gone bad. - Yeah, because it was my fault for having-- - I quit watching, and then I went back after Baron said this guy's great. I said, "Okay, now I'll go back to watching." - And you watched the whole thing, and he got back to bed. - And he got back to bed. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. You retrieved it, you retrieved it. - But when they came in here together, that was the most perfect podcast I've ever been a part of. - Oh, it's phenomenal, phenomenal. - I mean, they-- - Although your Joe Kent podcast was phenomenal, too. - Thank you. - And I'll tell you what was phenomenal at Joe Kent, was not Joe Kent, was you? - I don't think, I think the only guy who could have stayed with Joe Kent is Scott Horton. And you stayed with Joe Kent. Joe Kent's talking about all over the Middle East, and you're right with him the whole way, and he's going, "Oh, we went into who the fuck cares of Stan and you go, you mean right over here?" And you are with him the whole way that I'm going. I'm going, "This is like, Julian, here's Scott Horton without the anger." - Oh, that's funny. - And so that's what impressed me about that one. - Thank you. - You know what was funny though, about that Morgan Coleman podcast? So that was before the YouTube view counts also changed, so now they're up a little bit. But even before that, it got to a million views. - Really? - Yeah. - What's your highest view count? - Ix, three points, something on a wonderful episode. But I expected when we finished that podcast, I knew it was perfect. And I knew that they had both nailed it. And I expected that thing to have the shit clipped out of it. I expected. It was the first time I-- - That's how I get filtered right now. - It was the first time I ever had this expectation about, I've never expected shit from podcasts, but I'm like, all the biggest shows in the world are going to be playing these clips. Going through it as I'm like, "Whoa, this is going to go crazy." - Nobody. - Nothing. - Nobody. - So I talked to Brett. - It doesn't fit the narrative. - I talked to Brett about that. And he said, "That's how you know you did a perfect podcast." - That's exactly right. - There's nothing that anyone can fucking go through and be like, "This is just totally off and totally wrong." Like, there's something very, that is now the sketchiest aftermath I've ever-- - So if you look at Tyler Robinson, he's got the 10,000-mile stare. - Oh yeah. - So Tyler Robinson, this MKELT obsession of mine, looks like an MKELT-rev victim set up to take the hit. - He's got the physical appearances for sure. - He's got the distance stare, this can't go to court. Now, I happened to meet up with Jonathan Turley. You should have Jonathan Turley, but you won't get him 'cause he's real hard to get as my guest, but if he can, you should get him, he's brilliant. He comes to Cornell. First thing is noticeable, it's May or April, to give a talk. Now, he is absolute Supreme Court level constitutional scholar. And I asked him, I said, "Are you near the Supreme Court?" He said, "Now, the appointments are getting younger and I'm getting older." And, but in the Q&A, I said, I watched everything. I watched everything I find years. I'm the closest thing you got to a groupie. And I said, I have a question. Did Derek Schelman get a fair trial? And he kind of hesitates. And he goes, "I have serious problems with that trial." - I don't think-- - He rigged it. - I don't rigged it. - Yeah, I also, even before I don't, in just looking at it objectively, whether you think he's guilty or-- - I don't think he was. - I don't think there was a, there was, if the trial was gonna be held in the state of Minnesota at all, I don't see how there is such thing as a fair trial. - But I don't think even the evidence we saw supported conviction. - For any. - Here's how, well, first of all, as Nick was on his neck here, not here, they were not cutting off blood flow. Now, the way they rigged the trial, first of all, there was not a person in that courtroom who wanted to be the person in which the news would say, what this guy says is what got Derek acquitted. No one wanted to win that case. I don't think his lawyers wanted to win that case. They had to go to Australia, get experts. In the manual, police manual, there was a picture and a page showing this is how you restrain a person. If that had been shown, he gets acquitted because that was what he was doing. He was using normal protocol to restrain him. Now, what people do-- - Normal protocol, they have a knee on the neck. - On the back, yeah. - On the back, that's where it was. Now, remember the iconic fire, show me the iconic, look, it seems like you're not great. So, Derek fell off in the side. That does seem like-- - Well, we're also not allowed in the court. We're the videos that shut up about three or four months after it happened, of a Floyd in the car, in the back of the car, before being put on the ground, saying, I can't breathe, I'm suffocating, I can't breathe, that was not allowed in court. Excuse me, you're acquitted if you see that video. - That's crazy, that's not allowed in court. - See that picture right there? Look at his hand, see that iconic picture in the right with his hand in his pocket? His hand's not in his pocket. He's got a blue glove. Now, that doesn't in any way make him guilty or innocent, but it's the photo that made people mad. It's the photo that was used to rile the masses. Now, here's what a lot of people don't know. First of all, they do know that Floyd was trying to pass fake money. That's a little weird for a junkie, but that's a pretty sophisticated scam. - Passing the fake 20? - You're trying to pass the fake 20. - That's a fiscative scam. - Well, if with some mobs or something, I'd say maybe, but junkies have some fake money sometimes. - Well, the problem is is that the nightclub that he worked at was rumored to be laundering money. So there was a plot thickener. That nightclub burned down in the riots, how convenient. Turns out what a lot of people don't know is Floyd and Chauvin knew each other. - Yeah, they did. - They worked together, yeah. - None of that comes out in the public's eye. - I remember that, wait, that one came out real quick. - It was public, but it wasn't public on CNN. It wasn't public on any of these places. - I feel like that one was reported a ton, dude. - Really? - Yeah. - I remember that. - So now watch CNN. - They both worked there at the nightclub together, bouncing, yeah. I remember that. - I'm surprised he's still alive, actually. I'm surprised he's been able to stay alive in prison. I don't think, I think they'd have a big problem on their hands if a hair on that guy's head was harmed. - You don't think there's black guys in there who'd like to take them out? - What's I'm saying, I think, and I think they know that. And I think they're probably keeping-- - Well, he's going for a retrial. By the way, the other guy shouldn't have been sent to prison at all. They want-- - The other cops, the other cops. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But they just wanted to clean up this whole riot problem. This is one of these, you know, someone's got to take the fall period. - Yeah. - And at some level, there's logic in that, right? It's like when Cornell denounced me when I tweeted about the guy being tipped over. Now, the irony of that one, just to backtrack there, is the tweet was signed, the denouncing was signed by the president at the time who I didn't like. The provost, who's my friend, which I found a little ironic. But they do were just trying to shut down the canceling. They were just trying to get the thing to calm the fuck down. It was signed by some vice president something, not my dean, which it should have been. And he had once said to me, "What good is tenure if you don't have free speech?" I think he said, "Fuck, no." - Good for him. - And it was signed by the chief of police. I was defending the police. So I'm gonna zoom call it the chief of police by a year later and I said, as you know, I support the police. (laughing) So, everything's fucked up. We're kind of in this matrix that's real, but it's constantly created. As we talked about, I haven't looked, we haven't looked, but I woke up and took a quick peek at Twitter and it sounded like Europe's about to blow itself up this morning. - Yeah, they're like, they're same prepare for short. - Prepare for all sorts of shit. The diesel stories now finally catch and hold, and stuff like that. But they're talking about, they're talking about drafts or talking about, and it's all happening today. They're pulling their ambassadors out of Middle Eastern embassies. This is very, by the way, if I'm Iranian, I think I would not forget that the US funded Saddam enough to kill how many Iranians died in the Iraq or on war. I bet it was so like five million. I'm just throwing out a wild number, but it certainly wasn't 50. And yeah, this is from open source intel. The UK government wants the public to prepare for severe disruption to daily life. That includes stockpiling canned food and drinking water, strengthening civic resilience and planning for the possibility of war. - Against whom? - Against whom? - We don't even know who it's against. So I wrote about the Ukrainian war. The problem I have is I look at that picture. Holy Jesus, NATO, yeah, that's exactly right. I write about shit that I don't know to learn. I don't write about shit. I'm an expert at it. I find that, you know, when I wrote about Ukraine, I had to find it on a map and I'm going, wait a minute, my risk board, my risk board didn't have it there. That's not Ukraine, right? But I had been paying attention to Putin. And for a dozen years, Putin had been warning NATO, you can't have Ukraine. He wasn't saying, I want Ukraine. He's saying, you can't have Ukraine. A fucking moron could understand why Putin would take that stance. Ukraine has been the gateway to Russia since the dawn of time. He can't have NATO, which by virtue of the rules of NATO, if he gets in a battle in Ukraine, the entire NATO alliance comes into him. He said, you can't have Ukraine. During that heated debate, NATO took Finland or something like that. He said, you guys are douchebags, but he didn't do anything. So basically, our neocons wanted NATO into Ukraine. And we were training the neo-Nazis. They weren't even neo. They're old Nazis. You ever seen a video of Lindsey Graham and John McCain like in 2015? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, what a shame he died. What a shame they about that. You see I got ripped into by Megan McCain. And I ripped back by saying, you you should ask what your parents have been up to because their mother's the one who said, you know, we all knew what Epstein was doing. And she worked for an organization. It was supposed to call shit like that out. And she didn't do anything. Remember Tim doing used to dress up as Megan McCain. I don't remember that. That's my daddy. Dylan is brilliant. The comedian saved the day. Yeah. Because they they get to the you want to know an interesting one that went right by probably, but Rob Reiner gets killed by his kid. His kids whacked out of his mind, right? Yeah. You want to know why? You go find Rob Reiner roast. Rob Reiner participated in one of those comedic roasts. And you know, those are brutal and they're honest. So if someone was a junkie, the junkie jokes run a while than those roasts, right? Well, Rob Reiner kept getting pounded with Diddling kids, including his own kid in the roast really. So his son killed him. So maybe that wasn't just a crazy son, right? When was this road? I don't know. Diff is great. Can I take him home with me? He's the best in the business. He's deep Google. Best of ever seen his time. Sam Rogan. He's guys pretty good. His time. His Jamie's great. I I've never seen anything like the his time stamps every 10 minutes. There's like eight lines worth of size 11 text of everything that's said in here while he's doing all this. It was so much that when the first podcast I did with Baron, the security guy Steve was sitting right there. Nice dude. And at the end of the podcast, he walks up to Diff. He's like, he transcribed the whole podcast. And he's like, no, no, no, no, he showed him the time stamps. He thought he was like fully going for it, like transcribed it. The time stamps are great. I wish every podcaster did the time stamp. Right. But the time stamps you see or just us picking the highlight key words. Right. The fucking 40 million paragraphs he wrote. Right. It's crazy. You're going to overtake Rogan, I think. Well, part of the problem is Rogan seems to be getting stale. He was a Kingmaker five years ago. But you know, he keeps bringing in Navy Seals and, you know, and and and and comedians and stuff like that. I don't find his his podcast that interesting. He's been he's been doing it a very long time. That's right. And and and and and I think I don't know Joe Rogan. I've never spoken to him. Have no relationship with him. Obviously, like kind of the Godfather. Not kind of the Godfather of of of what we do. But I do wish from afar. He would take six months off of everything. That would be a good. He looks exhausted. And I have said this to people for a few years now. I'm watching struggle where you look like he looked like he wanted to fight back in some way and he held back. I hadn't thought of it. He looks exhausted. He looks exhausted to me. When I see him in clips, that spark that was there in 2018, 2019. And then, you know, when he also had to like go to battle during Kobe. We also might be doing what he wants to do. What you got to take your hat off of. You know, who is I think was Cernivek who I really have no idea who he is. I mean, I know who he is, but I don't know what he is. I think it was him who said he become a prisoner of your followers. Oh, he's 100% right about that. It's called audience capture. Right. Something we talk about all the time. You do now want to piss off your audience. So you're some Bitcoin guy. And you invite columnon. And I'll send your audience is going, why a fuck do one here? Some guy who doesn't believe in Bitcoin. That's right. Right. That is something that since day one, I have been I've thought I've thought of very hard behind the scenes and all my guys here now, like, deep and a lessie. They will tell you that is something we talk about. So you're in trouble if you're your comment section starts saying we want more satanic pedophile shit. Sure. No, absolutely. No, no, that's right. Do you know how many times I turned down a podcast that I know and default test that I know will do seven figure views and pay a lot of bills? I'll solve that problem for you. Oh, but no, I mean this dead fucking seriously. No jokes all. Well, I also think the stance of not I do think if Tucker invited you to Bethel, you should go to go on a show. Yeah. If he invited you to Bethel. Yeah, I don't know why I thought you didn't. I'm confused. No, what what happened was his people reached out about him coming on my show. I said, sure. Great. But he wanted to do it by zoom. Yeah, I and I said, well, I've done at the time, 455 New York. Yeah, but I said, guys, this was this was one of my non-negotiable since day one. Right. I do it in person. I do it in my studio. The minute you say yes to someone and make an exception. I know. Doesn't matter if it's a no one. Doesn't matter if it's Michael Jordan. Every one after. Yes. So I've never come to never done it becomes Nepal. I've never fucking done it. And I never will. So I said, hey, when he comes to New York, the other thing is New York is so many people. Anyone of consequence either can get to New York. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, when you come to New York, I'm like, when you come here, we'll work our schedule around it. I say that to everyone. And like, obviously, we fly people in all the time, but then there's people who are like, wow, you know, I don't want to travel. No problem. Just if you come to town, let me know. It's not the personal. It's like, it's nothing personal at all. We do a great podcast. I'm sure. But yeah, I mean, I would go on a show if he. Okay. I thought no one asked me to come on. I don't get invited on shows really at all. Really. I thought you didn't want to do it. No, no. It's on big shows. You look at the top 100 podcasters. Danny Jones has been my buddy for five years. That's my guy. Forget about yourselves. No, no, but, but I'm saying like, I don't none of those people talk with me. I don't really know what that is. I've never, it's nothing bad. I've just never been Sean Ryan. I haven't talked to him on the phone in three years. He was in my parents' house three and a half years ago. You know, and like Sean was a great guy with me. I know him as well as the first narrative studio. I mean, I think that's, I think that's pretty public, but he's like a very paranoid guy. So I'm just not going to say anything. It's in the South. Okay. I think he's public that it's in Tennessee. But I never got his now. But no, no, he's definitely public about that. But like, that's what I'm saying. Like, you know, he looks very troubled. I don't, I don't, I would love to talk with Sean. I would, if you gave me 24 hours, gone to my head and said, you need to get one of two people on the phone. Sean Ryan or Kim Jong-un. I'm not going to get either on the phone, but I'm going to go for Kim Jong-un as a better shot. I said, I dead serious. Sean, Sean looks very troubled to me. It looks to me like the darkness of the world is is wearing on him. That was already happening. I remember I was sitting in the car with him. I'm not going to tell that story. I'm going to assume that's off record. But yeah, I think I think he says it. He talks about how I think he's very troubled that stuff. Right. He has gone down the rabbit hole and just discovered that there's just so much shit down there. Yeah. And it's and it's and it's bad. But like at the same token, if I ever talked with him, I tell him this, but I look at some pretty bad shit too. Right. And you got to come up and smell the roses in life too. Right. And his history might be part of the problem. And that's the thing. Sean has been places and seen really dark things and been a part of stuff that I never have. And that's the separation. I get so like I can encourage him to do that. But like who the fuck am I? Darryl Cooper. Darryl. What what about Darryl? If you had him on. No, he would be really good. Darryl. I'm not a big Darryl Cooper guy. Really? No. Have you a list of his? Yes. Okay. Okay. I've been pretty I find he he's able to put you there. Yeah. It really. I think I I think there's narrative driven there. Oh really? It's just my opinion. Yeah. Your opinion matters. Yeah. No. And like people that you talk about audience capture people. How could you say that? What do you think? That's my opinion. Right. You don't have to agree with me out there. That's just where I am. You have to not trust everything. it's sum level, right? You're never past 99%. If I wanted to, okay, if I wanted to, I could go to the Revolutionary War, which I study tremendously. I think it's an incredible part of history. Very overlooked on podcast and on shows and stuff. It's not something that gets covered a lot. If you made me like a lawyer, like a defense attorney, go to make a case that the Americans were the bad guys, right? I could do it. I, I, hold on. I could do it. Obviously, I don't think that. Obviously, I'm grateful every day that those motherfuckers in the beer hall said, fuck it. Let's do it. Right. Fucking throw some tea in our being. The story that gets reported overall is we were 100% the good guys in 100% right. In fact, when you read the history books, you can even find the 10 to 15% where historians correctly write down and they said, well, they did do this. This wasn't the best thing. But that's not what makes the documentaries because it's not the highlight real. My point is what you then don't want to do is say, well, we were told it's 100% this way. And then because you find out maybe that it's not 100%, you now say, well, it must be zero. Right. And this is my big history with everyone from the institutions to their opposites. And it's something I fight tremendously on my show all the time. People want things to be zero or a hundred. Are there individual situations where sometimes it is? Absolutely. But when you're looking at complex history, the answer is somewhere in the middle, which way does it lean? That's what I want to figure out. So I put out a tweet that said, I'm looking for books to talk about Israel Palestine, ideally from a fairly neutral position. That's hard to find. Right. And I said, or alternatively, I'm looking for books to talk about Zionism from the various sides, which in some sense turns it neutral. And some guy made some reference, well, would you like to read a book on World War Two that includes the German side? And I go, yeah, right. They want a dumb rhetorical question. That was, I dug into the World War Two history. I find I went down a rabbit hole through a series of books. And that story is totally whacked. It's different than what they write in the history of the book. Well, for starters, it turns out FDR's right hand man is chief of staff. And FDR being in a wheelchair meant that guy was more important than any chief of staff was a total Soviet spy from head to toe, Soviet spy. So everything we did went through Harry Hopkins and where we landed on D day, everything was about what it's all I want. Now I went through Diana West's book, you know, Diana West. She wrote American betrayal. Great read. I almost didn't believe it. I go, this is totally different. So I reached out to my friend, who's the Pentagon expert on Middle East. I just trust the guy. She mentioned him in his book. So I said, Oh, I'll call Stephen Coughlin up. And so I DM Stephen Coughlin said is Diana West legit? Did you read American betrayal? Is it right? She said, yes, absolutely right. And she had to go into hiding after writing the book. And what was her? Well, it's basically the role of Stalin influencing the war. So, you know, we learned, I first learned about the Lend Least program from a copy edited Ben Steele's book, Battle of Bretton Woods. So I read it very carefully because I was copy editing it and it turns out the guy who negotiated with John Maynard Keynes at Bretton Woods, New Hampshire was a Soviet something. You know, there's a, there's spy. There's sympathizers. There's, there's a gray zone there, but it's like something's going on here, right? And it turns out that we gave 10 times more armaments to one country than any other country during World War II before we got in the game, the Soviet Union. Not Britain. It was so absurd. Oh, oh, Britain. We Britain's crazy. We crushed them. We crushed them. We wouldn't give them shit. We made them give some of the shit we gave them to the Soviet Union. It got crazy. We gave more shit to the Soviet Union after the war was over. It was insane. Now, the other thing that happened was is we left an estimated 15 to 20,000 US troops in Soviet territory that we never got back. Now, the official number is 18, not thousand, 18. So when I got hammered last year for quoting Patton, saying we fought the wrong side, Victor Davis handsome and at me repeatedly. And he was lying as ass off. And he was quoting the 18 number. And I also made a thought experiment. I said, you know, so imagine Hila was trying to form an alliance with Britain before the war started. He wanted to form an alliance with Britain. He was afraid of the Soviet Union. I said, if we had formed that alliance, because you control your allies better than your enemies, we in theory could have said, look, cut the bullshit over there with the whole Jew thing. And maybe the Holocaust wouldn't have been so bad. West said the war could have ended in 1943, which would have cut off a lot of dead people. And Hanson said that was badly absurd. I got, that's just a fucking lie. I said, I'm not, I'm not, that's a, that's not a butterfly flap in its wings, saying that, that, that that would change the war. I'm talking, I said, that's a, that's not a flappy wing butterfly. That's a serious alternative path for history if Britain had formed that alliance. You don't know what would have happened. Yeah. So saying, maybe there wouldn't have been a Holocaust is not a rational, because maybe a whole ton of shit would have been different. If you ended it earlier, that's right. And as a cons, it might be the war wouldn't have started. And it is, and Hans, but Hanson is, is owned by a path, whatever. And that's the, that's the issue. You have to be able to sit there and sift through all the history and find like it doesn't need to be binary. Right. You can play the fucking 10,000 questions game and look at each question on its own level. I don't understand why people can't do this. And that's where I run into an issue because I've seen the narratives over and over again to where it is either one or the other, and it's all here. They want it, but you can't have a clean story because it's not clean when you have two sides of the war where one side of the war included the Nazis and the other side of the war included the USSR. It can't possibly be clean. I like to ask the question, who won World War II? People get that wrong. They think I'm saying who beat the Germans? The Soviets sent the bodies, the British sent the spies, the Americans sent the war, the war, the Soviets with, yeah, but because they got half a year up. Right. No one else got anything close to that. Right. They got half a year up. I would say the United States, I think the Soviets and the United States won because the United States, you served the British Empire overnight. So you're correct about that. Yeah. That, that, that's right. We again, our deal. We cut the, that's right. We, excellent. We cut deal with the Brits, the, the guaranteed that they would never be a superpower. We handcuffed them so badly with our deals. Yes. And we played ruthlessly. Right. We were smart enough in both wars to come in at the end and just going to mop up the mask. Now a lot of guys died, but not like the other teams. Right. And by the way, you can make an eye on you. It should have been in there for any of them. You were right that it was complex history and another thing is, and I've had, like I remember I a Colonel Gray Gadson in here, a West Point guy. Right. Like an amazing dude and, and he's the one that brought it up, not me. But I, I was very familiar with the story, you know, a really complicated part of history that you have to look at that is very uncomfortable to look at is the fact that there is tremendous evidence. And I mean tremendous evidence that FDR and parts of the United States government were aware that Pearl Harbor was going to have. Oh, no. I went down the tail end of my rabbit hole and, and World War Two, they have deceit. They have deceit. There's a superb job of laying out that story. Now here's the thing. He actually justified it. This is the author justified. This is it. This is, and this is the uncomfortable question to ask because that's the second worst day in American history by casualties after 9/11. When you look at history, even if you can agree that World War Two and the whole thing and the aftermath is certainly there's a lot going on. And it's not a perfect outcome. In any way, a lot of people, millions of people thought, do you wonder if that is, if he made the right call there, which is a crazy thing. And it makes me like really sick to my stomach to ask. But I'm just asking it pragmatically rather than emotionally or whatever because the three letters that matter the most in the world, whether we like it or not are GD and P. And when you look at Nazi Germany, they were the fastest growing GDP. They had the most impressive military. They were moving on all fronts. Regardless of what got them to that point, they were moving on all fronts at that point. And the United States at the time was the most isolationist public in the world. Like the people of America didn't want to fucking have a wooden gunfight in the backyard, let alone go to work. By the way, who can blame them? After World War One? The father's agreed, too, right? And so, if you had a situation, though, where you did not come in and help, and Hitler actually did take over all of Europe, that's a real problem and thing. And I feel like, especially if you read the May 10th 39th and May 10th 40th history with Britain, you know, this is one place where like, you can't even believe how handcuffed Churchill wasn't, Churchill wanted more and more than anyone. Talk about definitely an imperfect guy in every possible world or one. Sure. But like, he couldn't, he couldn't get any help on that. And this was, this wasn't like a, yeah, let's go help Ukraine and have BlackRock rebuild it. This wasn't that kind of situation. It's very different. So, I think about that a lot because that's what, that's what, you know, when I was talking with Greg, we talked about on camera for a while, and then we talked about their criminal gods. And it's like, yeah, it's a really uncomfortable question to ask, because it's like, they definitely, I would use the term definitely, let it happen, pro-harper. Oh, I think I would use the term there. There are letters from Admiral saying, get the fleet out of there and they just ignored them. Yeah, no, no. And then there was a British office. So, this picture, this skyline, the picture's taken from 30 Rock Center. Yeah. Right? On our wallpaper here. Yeah. In 30 Rock Center, the British MI6 had an office there for, I think, at least two years, Jesse Fink wrote a book about this on this book, where I had Jesse on the show. But, you know, well, I think the war with Japan did. It took Japan off Stalin's flank. So, we're back, we're back to Stalin calling shots. It's messy. And there's guys who say, look, if you go back and look at McCarthy, I think he was an unstable personality, but it doesn't mean he was wrong, that sort of thing. And I haven't dug into the McCarthy story yet. I'll do what I'm more riveted by than our founding fathers. So, somebody said, they don't catch me as much. I don't know why. Medieval history catches me. Funny you say that. We've been doing a lot of medieval history recently. Oh, yeah. I'm very fascinating. We have my boy John in here talking about the whole period. I just had an Anthony called Delas. That'll come out in a few weeks. Oh, so it has talking about the Byzantines. Yep. And we're doing. There's some more I have coming up on it. Medieval history is quite literally like the most ignored overall. My secretary, my journal secretary had a PhD in medieval history, which tells you don't get that because you'll become a secretary. Right. But I said, how did you get into medieval history? And she said in high school, they studied Roman Empire and then went right to the Renaissance. That's right. And she said, well, what happened in between? And her teacher said nothing. That's one of the most insane statements you could ever make. I mean, what happened in between? There was so much going on in between. Oh, there's a ton. I mean, how about even like a hundred over just 150 years, like rise and fall with the Mongols. Right. I mean, holy shit. I listened to Paul Cooper's podcast rise rise and fall of ancient civilizations. I don't know that podcast. I want to make sure I get right the name. But I listened to his episode. There were two episodes on the Mongols. There was a four hour one and a two and a half hour one. The four hour one was basically Kangus Khan. And then the second one was the after I think he invented a paling. Oh, they were both amazing. That four hour podcast on Kangus Khan is one of the most amazing podcasts I've ever listened to in my fucking life. So I'm a class and I use the word impale in class, just metaphorically. And then also they go, okay, I just break from the script. I say, you know what impaling is? I said, Kangus Khan, take a log, sharp point. They tap it up some poor bastards ass. They would tip them up, prop them up with stones and leave them there to die. I said, a good impaler could get it to come out of his collarbone without killing him. And he would die a hard death. And this incredibly flamboyant gay kid in the class who in my opinion was kind of a hero figure for me because he wore it so well to me. There was something about him. And he says, I just don't believe that you could do that and not kill him. I said, that's because you're not a master impaler. And he goes, I'd like to think I am. Then, then, then, then I go to Boston to a small music get together in some brownstone. This is so small. I know it's great. I go to this Boston thing where my son's playing in this brownstone, you know, some fundraiser or something. And I go in there and his name is Josh and he in walks Josh. I think what are the odds of seeing Josh in Boston? But then, I'm thinking later, I'm going, Josh walks into this room full of what is probably 98% gay men. And there's Dave. And he's gone, what are the odds of me seeing Dave here? So, I said, Josh, I said, Josh, I said, you're going to like this. I talked to him. I said, my son joined your team. My son's gay. And he goes, ah, that's great. He says, he says, I'm now a conservative. You don't have to, here's the problem with being gay. I'm going to say right here right now. You said it before, women fix men. When you're gay, don't have a woman to fix you. There might be some gays that argue that. Well, they might argue it and I'm open to suggestion. But I do think that there's something women evolved. Women can get the crap kicked out of them. They had to master controlling some guy who looks like he came out of Game of Thrones, right? And they had to do it in a way that didn't require physical strength. It was cunning. They had to figure out how to do this. They had to find a guy who would protect them, who would provide food. And at the same time, not kill them, not beat them, not destroy the kids. And also even beyond the very nature biology there of that and the animalistic side, I guess, they also had to develop ways to support them, put them in the best psychological position to be able to do that. They had to support them to be able to come home and know that shit was taking care of. That's right. I had a tweet that made it into a biomedical journal where I was talking about hunter-gatherer model. That's why I love Brett so much is the hunter-gatherer model of humans really works for me. And I said women are more competitive where men are more cooperative. Now women don't think that's true, but you watch girls, and the boy just boom, they go out and run out as a pack and have fun. Don't rip each other. And I said, you know, women are out there gathering. And then the court I put is, "Hey, bitch, that's my route you got there." And it made it into something like stats or something. It made it into a journal that I've gone holy fuck. I don't know how you, so I'm glad you did. I don't know how you survived this past hour as a professor at an Ivy League school. Cornell's very good. Cornell's got a bad rep because someone's writing bad shit about the place. It's really great. Now, I'm glad you did. I just, you said there is one thing that can't be taken from you is you say whatever the fuck you want. So one day I said, "Konel's really a great place at Utopia." And I was waxing philosophically about the places that all we have to do is get out of the news cycle, which was during a period when Cornell was getting particularly hammered because some guy said he was euphoric over the Palestinian's hitting Israel, right? And that didn't go over well with some group, right? And so Cornell was in a mess. And I said, "We just got to get out of the news cycle." And my brother-in-law calls me. Now, who's my brother-in-law? My brother-in-law's Ezra Cornell. He's a trustee by birth. And he calls me and he reads part of my tweet. I go, "Where'd you see that?" And he says, "My boss sent it to me." I said, "Where'd Daphne see it?" He said, "No, not that boss. My other boss." I said, "You're independently employed." He said, "The chairman of the Board of Trustees." He saw, and he was so excited, he calls my brother-in-law who knows everyone, I think it was his name, Ezra Cornell. And he says, "You know this guy." And he goes, "Yeah, that's my brother, right?" And I think the chairman of the Board was so excited to see a faculty member who wasn't whining, who recognized that we have a utopian existence and that if we don't fuck it up, it could continue. Right? I talked to women about academia and they go, "I don't want to do academia because I don't want to have a family." I said, "You know it's the best job in the world for raising family." Because if you, if you have to go, "My wife had a spine-fused." I said, "Fuck it, I'm out of here, took two weeks off. I just left the class without lectures for two fucking weeks." Well, I went to New York City to get her through the spine fusion. Where else can you do that? Right? I'm trying to figure out how people say, "I'm going to work till I drop." And I go, "Well, when are you going to go to doctor's appointments?" Because I tell you, when you get to about 70, you start having a lot of them. And working nine to five, the doctors don't do Sundays, right? They don't do evenings. When the fuck you're going to go to the doctors, when are you going to, you deal with all sorts of shit. How are you going to do it? And, and I was talking to my neighbor who was former dean of the B school and he said, yeah, he said, when I retired, I just did doctors appointments. So some like 70% of the people who retire, they do so against their will. Spouse needs taken care of. They get fired at 60. And they go, I can't get another job. I'm too old. You know, that sort of thing. They get sick, things like that. You can't just work till you drop. You can't. You can't. And hopefully, we're not setting up a system where they're trying to make people do that because sometimes it feels like that. Well, I really worry about the next downturn. We didn't talk that much economics, but the next downturn's going to be a killer. I wrote, by the way, in May 6, 2002, I wrote about the subprime crisis, 2002. Wow. And I got everything right except one thing. And that was, I thought, JP Morgan was going to go down because they're derivatives. They have a big derivatives. And somehow they they like invented that. What was her name? Did that English lady? Oh, I know, you're 94. The fuck was her name? I knew I know. She was the way God 94 JP Morgan derivatives deaths. British lady. She was, she was, yeah, I know who you're talking about. I just know she, I don't know much about her person. Yeah. Blythmasters. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And, uh, in '06, the real estate market turned over and the market didn't care. So in, here's a funny, funny story. And in, in '07, March of '07, I'm teaching sophomore organic chemistry. I turn to the sophomores spontaneously. I go, the banking systems about to collapse. I was watching, there was a blogger writing about it, one blogger named Tanta. And there was a thing called a market ABX index, which is a derivatives index. And it started drifting from par. And everyone was, everyone who's reading this blog is watching this, the market ABX index and I go, something's breaking. And then the Bear Stearns internal hedge funds went belly up to the $600 million who cares, right? That was all triggering. So Bear Stearns is fine. Yeah. Bear Stearns is fine. Contrary indicator. Yeah. Oh my god. But, but it was, it wasn't, by the way, AIG wasn't going to go down. That's the thing people don't know. AIG was not going to go down. David Stockman told me this. AIG's insurance company was legally ringprints from their derivatives company. So there's about 15 guys who had AIG out way over their skis. But no one could have touched the insurance part. So the feds stole it. That's why Hank Greenberg sued the feds for taking over AIG. And people like, that's just a poly. You guys almost just write the world. Now, just their derivatives group. But they stole it and you were five, five, six years early on. Well, I was just reading what other people were saying. So I was just putting those pieces together where people were saying, by the way, General Electric has in theory extended their debt out to be safe. But it turns out that they were then using the derivatives market to bring it back forward. And so, so, so I'm going, okay, so people are taking on real risk here. And so I turn to the class and said this. Now, two years later, February, oh nine peak shitstorm. Yeah, right in the middle of the shitstorm. I'm teaching honors thesis, bunch of seniors, once a week, guess lectures, writing a thesis for the research. And the first day of class that said, didn't I tell you guys that the banking system was going to collapse? They go, yeah, you did. And I said, did any of your econ professors tell you? They go, no, a lot of them double major. And they go, no, and I said, what are those assholes paid for? And so then my first guess lecture, my first guess lecture, honors thesis, chemistry, was rich, you like the CEO of Morgan Stanley and he stood up there. I got the best compliment I've ever gotten. I've actually two. He stood up there and he said, it was an evening class. He says, we're sitting at dinner. He tells the classes, we're sitting at dinner. And he says, within 15 minutes, I realize, I'm not the smartest guy at the table. The other one was from Stockman, who said Ted Lowey was by far Cornell smartest economist until I met this Dave column. Good fucking chemistry. Now I kind of in yank of my chain reach around, but it was still funnier. That's funny. A shit. So you think you were telling me earlier that P's are at like 40 and and the KShRP. Yeah, you think they'll come. So we got we got an easy 75% correction, 75% easy. It was 66, because the number for, yeah, March 9, 2009 was the bottom ticker. And there's like 66 on the S&P. You think it's 75. But what do we have now? We have bubble on bubble. We've got an AI bubble. I do agree with that. Way bigger than the dot com. Yeah. We got a real estate bubble. I think there's an argument to be made. The melody right. You want to get a melody right on. She could tell you horror stories. We've got a general equity bubble because general equity markets expensive. Here's a kind of numbers I look at. Like, so one day I go out and I go, Dell, Dell, their revenues, their share prices up 10 folds since 2016 or 18 or something. 16, I think I said. Their revenues are up 50%. Share price 10 fold revenues 50%. I go, how's this going to work out? And into my Twitter feed comes Michael Dell. He says, well, you know what year we started trading openly again. I knew what he was driving at turns. I was 18. But I had a table and it turns out that someone had pieced it. I said, I'm not going to try to parse it out of there. So I said, yeah, I know what your point is. I'm sitting there going, Michael, you must be bored out of your mind. Yeah. You're like, I'm a Mack guy. Yeah. Well, you, you, you, you, if you're answering tweets on chill like this, there's something wrong with Dave column tweets. So I went through all the texts and they're all up like 10, 10 times the amount of their revenues, except for Nvidia is up 25 times the growth of their revenues. This is this can't end well. There has to be some sort of massive correction at some point here. My only thing is as far as the timing goes. Oh, I'm not I don't know because they will continue to artificially prop it up by kicking the can down the road and doing things that are going to kill us as a country feels close. I and I say this in a way that I hope it affects mainstream the least, mainstream the least, which unfortunately is never the way it happens. But if it's going to happen, I hope it's sooner rather than later. I've been hoping for that because at some point, I want to be able to invest in reasonable assets or reasonable prices and kids should be able to buy reasonable houses or reasonable prices and so you just buy in gold right now. I'm not doing anything right now because I got a lot of gold and I got a lot silver. Last year, I did a big plunge into platinum, right? Right at the right time. And that was one of the best timing calls I ever did. But I don't go big because I'll get spooked out if I go big. And so I tend to average in and I did well. But if you put a gun in my hands and buy some more stuff, I'd probably buy some energy. But one of the things that's been shown is when the markets go down big, if you look at the drop by decile, they all drop. So the lowest valuation deciles drop like a stone too. So so the people who say, you know, oh, yeah, the markets are way out of whack. I've just listed some guy drives me nuts. He's talking about the tremendous profit margins of the of the AI companies. I go, what are you looking at? Yeah, based on what? Based on what? It's like pets.com. They're bleeding money. Yeah. And I'm saying I go, but then he says, well, you know, but five years now could be total disaster. And I go, then I'm out. If I know some time between now and five years from now that there's going to be a bloodbath, I'm gone. Because I don't need to catch the end. All I know is if here's one for you, if you own the 29 top, the 29 top, you owned it or bought it. Everyone talks about trough the peak. 1981 to the present four four percent valuation compounding, right? That's trough the peak. Let's do peak to trough. You own the 29 top. You were on a capital gains basis, even in 2009. Yeah. You made nothing in 80 fucking years. I, when I worked on Wall Street, there was one thing I always tried to talk with with the clients about because it was a psychological thing, just to understand like to be able to anchor yourself. And I said, if I have if I have a dollar and I lose 50%, take it to the bath. Hold on. What do I have? And they go 50 cents. And I go, okay, and I lost 50%, right? They say, yeah, that's okay. To get back to even what percent do I have to make? They get it right. No, they would get it right usually, but a light would go off on their head. They go 100%. 100%. And I said, you lose more on the day. downside then you gain on the upside. That's why it's important to be able to have some sort of baseline that you know is going to be there. So the argument was for some diversification and things to keep things a little simpler. You know, the other math they blow, by the way, is the market goes up three X. The market goes up three X. You're up 200%. People miss that math. Evaluation by definition has a numerator and denominator inflation affects both. You can't get out of a high valuation from inflation. Now, the inflation metrics are terrible, right? The CPI's garbage. I think an excellent inflation metric. Now there's the shadow stats but Kowski and the Chapwood index and stuff. But I think they come in hot. I think if you do the math, I think a way and I don't think prices drop that much. M2 money supply looks like a pretty good inflation metric to me. It turns out that if you take the 100 years of the market, you look at capital gains corrected for M2 money supply. It's down. Your entire profit is dividends. Now, if you add in the dividends, 3.7 percent annualized. Now, Buffett said in an article written in 1999, if you add in all the expenses and everything, he didn't include taxes, by the way, which is critical, but they're very hard to calculate because they're so different for everybody. Fees crap like that. He said, you can't make more than 4 percent a year. The average person in the market, and I wanted that there was a poll done last year, and they said they asked retail investors how much what you're expected return going forward. They said 11.5 percent by the poll. Inflation adjusted. Inflation adjusted. 11.5 percent. And they said, of course, the pros were much more grounded. They said 8.4 percent. I'm going from these valuations. If in the next 10 years, you're even, you won. You won. Because to me, it's looking like an easily, easily. If the current valuations, if we grow the GDP like they did in the 20th century, which I would consider lucky, 45 years to grow our way out of this valuation. Well, on that note, on that note, a little down. Hopefully, like I said, hopefully it's sooner rather than later so maybe we can have some better numbers than 45 on the same page. Yeah. Apparently, Dave, this has been fun talking with you, man. Thank you for coming in on Sunday to do it. Right. All right. So we will have your X link down below. You're very entertaining. Follow over there. And I appreciate all the support you showed for me as well. Right. My pray to chop it up with you, sir. Well, you deserve the support. Thank you. Thank you. Sure. We'll do it again. Good. All right. Everybody else you know what it is. Give it a thought. Give it back to me. Peace. Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star of you, they're both a huge help. Thank you.