Top-5 Chemist UNLOADS on MKUltra, Blood Lines & the AI Bubble | Dave Collum

the world's burning dave column what's what's happening out here well my wife actually listened to your brett weinstein podcast weinstein weinstein weinstein weinstein weinstein right that goes from like genius to she loved him too she does she's not a big podcaster but i sent it to her and to my uh my son and and she watched it and she really loved it part of the reason i did because he conveys a lot of ideas that i try to convey to her but he does it uh in a way that's coherent yes he is he is a brilliant man i listened to him for a lot of years but then you talk to him in person you're like god damn wow i know i know yeah i i adore the guy i'm openly public i'm you know it's a it's a you know bromance for me you well i heard you're going to be doing something with him soon right uh it's being set up if it fails to get set up i'm going to find a way to get one another one set up but yeah i'll connect him with you if we well i'm connected with him i gotta get a i don't have a podcast so i get podcasters to to that's right so i'm you're like the goaded podcast yeah i'm like the ed mcmahon of of uh other podcasts that's right how does a organic chemistry professor from cornell talk about all the shit that you do all the time and and like respectfully also because you're still teaching it all the time up there you're talking about everything except chemistry as well and you seem to have a firm grasp on a lot of things were you just always eclectic i think i was um so as a kid i was kind of rogue typical boy actually where you know i well boys are really retarded right there there we go put one in the swear jar um compared to the girls it's staggering and and so i can remember my grades all the way back to first grade they were mediocre so i don't know i can remember them but i can in the around sixth grade i woke up and then fell back asleep in middle school when uh when i discovered pot and then in high school i started to get serious and but i graduated okay but i was nothing special my dad once said to me he said i knew you were you were smart enough to go to college but i didn't expect what what i got out of you and uh what'd your dad do he was a contractor he built built buildings and um buildings with an expertise personal expertise and fireproofing what did i talk to him about that's a trick question um i'm afraid to answer it's too early in the morning yeah i know and uh he gave the right answer though he said not i don't see it um and uh so i went to cornell what you say how do you get there well i didn't know how i got there because even though i was a gymnast i wasn't good enough to get really you were a gymnast yeah i was pretty fucked up too so i started in gymnastics i started in gymnastics when i was little so i was like bottom two kids in the class size wise and i was pretty good um and then uh and then towards the end of high school i grew like a weed so um so you know you look up and there's an extra inch hanging off a limb and you go what the hell do i do with that right so i did it for two years at cornell but school was too preoccupying i don't know if you ever did a college sport i asked you what your sports were in our podcast my buddies all my best friends in college were on the football team there and i saw that close up that was a 60 hour a week job and so when i was running graduate admissions for chemistry if i saw an athlete i took him right away right away hey guys if you're not following me on spotify please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review they're both a huge huge help thank you and uh but it was just it was just too distracting and so i gave that up i tried out for the golf team but that was another oddly eclectic move because i hadn't played since i was 12 and then i went out to the golf course when i was orientation week freshman year and i hadn't played since i was 12 but i'd gotten big and as a gymnast i not only had strong shoulders but i had powerful shoulders i had flexible shoulders and i had a natural swing i had a good natural swing and good hip movement and stuff and some guy says you want to play and i said oh you don't you know you don't want to be in the course of me today and he said no let's just play and it turns out a smack in the ball i mean smack in the ball i was about 10 years past guy he ended up being captain of the golf team that's pretty good you haven't done it since 12 right well natural swing will do that right so so he gets to the end of the round he says you really ought to take up golf again so i did um that's not by the way it was impressive as a friend of mine in high school who quit swimming at 12 took it back up in college at florida state and took 10th in the ncaa that's very impressive that's really impressive so in any event so i for a couple years i crash coursed golf and and i got my handicap down pretty good but i tried out for the cornell team but my scores went to shit as soon as the classes started so i said okay that's not for me were you majoring in chemistry specifically no actually i was a bio major um i was pre-vet pre-vet yeah and then i realized i wasn't going to get into vets the only time i ever made a calculated decision that i would fail and therefore don't do it i never did that but um but my first year i got a 296 305 gpa and and vet school such a low probability admission i said look i can take all these random courses on big animals and shit not get into vet school and wish i'd redone the whole goddamn program i slid right over to pre-med and said good enough worked in a hospital one summer stuff like that and you know i used to root around the carcasses i worked for a pathologist so we did a lot of autopsies and stuff and um took uh took a one semester non-majors organic chemistry course because i really thought i'd suck i said get it done just get it out of there work your ass off find a way to get a decent grade and i loved it and i was fishing around trying to figure out where do i go from here if i love organic chemistry but i got this non-major course just one semester why'd you love it i don't know i don't know i just i think our brains are wired you know mathematicians are wired different than chemists are wired different than you know biologists it's a complexity issue i think i think there's a certain level of resolution that you like um and for me organic chemistry is the right level of complexity and so i uh so then i did some weird stuff like i joined a research group which was lucky to get into i said i might just talk my way in and uh and then i realized i didn't know enough organic chemistry so i didn't know enough chemistry so i i took what's called physical chemistry but i didn't have any calculus and it's kind of chemical physics physical chemistry you know and it had calculus in it and it was all engineers and i didn't have calculus and so that was a ride um funny ass story i i um i got to drop a prelim so i said fuck it i got a like another course i want to do better and so i uh so i just bagged the whole subject matter i took the test anyways and got bottom grade out of 150 kids but i didn't go to college i didn't go to college i didn't go to college i didn't go to because i was going to drop it the topic was kinetics i became a kineticist so you literally got the lowest grade well it's not i didn't like i didn't study it i just said i've got better things to do i'm going to drop this prelim because i let you drop one and what does a kineticist do uh you study um how uh the chemistry is a function of time and so you watch the behavior and if you monitor chemistry as a function of time then you learn about what's in there can you bring that back into english chemistry as a function well so you start a reaction you figure out how to follow the starting material by some sort of you know technical process and then you watch the starting material go away and the formation of the product and from that the the changes and how that occurs you can learn about you can learn about what's actually causing the chemistry to occur and and uh so i obviously was not prepared for that and then i came one uh i would argue i'm in organic chemistry i'm probably i i'm gonna say top five um i would say um i'm being probably too generous i i can't name another person who who i would want to trade programs with wow so and i still don't know math you don't need to know math as i've told many people you know you don't need to know math you only need to know mathematicians and and so and i think that's the thing that i've learned is that if you're trying to do something like sex if if if you're trying to do it it's already been done before and if it hasn't you shouldn't be doing it right and um and so i'd occasionally find some colleague and say how the fuck do we do this right you know and i'd send my students through the department so i got really good at uh guerrilla warfare and learning you know learning on the fly and uh the the thing that was ultimately so so so in any i took a graduate level organic course the second semester graduate level organic course so from non-major right over the top of the first semester grad course to the second first exam i got 28 below the mean i didn't choke that's all i had i'd love the course but that's all i had and then the second test i actually had to take in the professor's office because of a conflict and i hand it to him he says what do you think i said oh it was easy and he flinched he physically like recoiled because the class retard just said and uh and i got the second highest grade in the class wow so that then i lit up then the athlete in me kicked in right that's like i can beat these guys so i took three more grad courses i went to grad school at columbia that had by far the best organic chemistry division i would argue ever assembled i mean it was just truly extraordinary why do you say that well they just had rock stars just six unbelievably talented organic chemists just this this this the weakest guy in the six-man division was a noble prize wannabe i mean he he was really that good he and and and but he was quirky as shit the others were much more functional um and uh and i thought i was gonna flunk out you know they made me do you're gonna love this they made me take graduate level physics now the lack of calculus really kicked in when it came to graduate level physics right right so you know at one point he says hint use bessel functions which i didn't know what a bessel function was and i i was so tempted to say why tell us you just gave the answer away you know and uh so i got a d in that i thought i was gonna get kicked out of grad school and uh and uh i got a letter from the the chair saying you know we're generally pleased with your progress but your your record's a little uneven i got you think um part of it is they wouldn't let me take any organic because i had so much so then i i i went to work for a famous guy to get into the to get into academia i was i was do or die i was like i'm going to harvard or bust right harvard was a harbor but you get the idea yeah and uh i joined a a group of a brand new assistant professor and uh i spotted his talent i'm taking credit for that i saw something in this guy i said i've seen assistant professors this guy's different by the end of my second year he was fielding offers senior offers which means so he was just starting with me senior offers as in big salary big chunk of money come join us at stanford harvard and caltech and i was getting unsolicited job interviews at the end of my second year and i'm going holy shit and uh so i went i went out and interviewed and so i ended up getting my degree in two and a half years a little over two and a half years i want to give a huge shout out to all my business owners out there and today particularly those of you who are running businesses that involve all the trades and all the important stuff to keep our 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fast or well typically it takes five wow and then typically you go to a two-year postdoc and then you go to your job and i just went straight from two and a half to my job whoa so it was fast probably broke a record probably hold some record there but it wasn't because i had some gift it was um it was like the us beating the russians in hockey so it was it was all grit yeah and they could play them a hundred times and lose 99. but you're gonna win that one but i but i won the 100th if you could put me back in grad school i'd never replicate what i did i mean it just worked perfectly it's clear it's clear you have a real competitive fire oh yeah where's that come from um i think it's kind of genetic when i was a kid i was ambitious but not about school but other so i was the kid who went out knocked on doors to shovel driveways and things like that so there was an ambition there that was i think my brother was the favorite son because he got better grades but but my brother was the favorite son because he got better grades but but my brother my brother had kind of a streak in him where he didn't want to do like that in retrospect i rose my father's watching me going this is the kid with with um with with uh grit i think i'm suspecting yeah um i think grit goes a real long way for people you know maybe if you're a mathematician you need more than grit there are fields that just flat out need genius a mathematician you need to start as a genius and that doesn't get you anywhere uh organic chemistry it's grit in my opinion yeah i think for anything i can't relate to organic chemistry i don't balls for sure probably in the same category there but well but one one is being willing to take a risk the other one is is being willing to grind hard right so so when i got to cornell so during my interviews i discovered i got to talk with some unbelievably legends of chemistry types guys you go holy i didn't even know he was still alive you know that sort of thing and um i came back from my first three interviews and i went to the library and my boss comes in the room and again he was phenomenal and he he says what are you doing i said i'm switching fields i'd only been an organic chemist for about 14 months so you know that was a big move and he said what field i said i don't know yet he says what happened to you right he was that's ridiculous and i said no no there's more out there than i realized what someone convinced me was instead of saying look i know how to do a b and c what can i do with it they said figure out figure out what's important and then figure out how to do it and that was a big that was a big frame shift for me and so you figure out what's important to figure out how to do it you have to match it with your interest though too right well you can't say we need to find another quark or something that the physicists you got to be realistic yeah but um but so what i had to do is find what i thought was an interesting problem and i i found one there was a wide open field that had been dead for 20 years and i said you know there's a lot of buildup brush under here this there's there's work to be done in this field now because for 20 years no one's done anything and science has marched forward and that that that hasn't been backfilled at all there's a strange here's a strange phenomena that i can actually convey to you organic chemists spread across the periodic table looking for a home right you're looking for a place to plant your flag right so there's famous chemists who found boron and you know cement samarium and things like that um the the most amazing thing is there's one element that was completely ignored and what's that you're not going to believe this sodium now sodium if you bought a 100 pound bag of sodium chloride the most expensive part of that is the bag right and for some reason organic chemistry i mean it's not that there isn't sodium in the chemistry but it was just ignored as a field of study as a field of and and the last serious organic sodium chemistry before we started uh there's something guys do if they're having to be listening i don't insult them but but there was no one doing a real holistic analysis and really digging into the weeds and saying what the hell is going on here the last one to try to do that was in the 40s now they didn't have to work with so then there was a lot of unsolved problems left after those guys and so i thought there was a reason why it didn't wasn't going to work but i figured out how to study it it required a sort of an intellectual breakthrough because there's certain things technically made it hard to study but i figured out we had the tools to do it and i thought we were going to discover why chemists had not stumbled upon it using just random motion right and we found no problems i mean it worked beautifully and and we found we created new reagents that do things different than the lithium lithium by the way is the most important metal in organic chemistry so lithium is most important lithium's right below sodium, right above sodium in the periodic table. Oh, I didn't even know that. that right they're they're so similar they're talking about making sodium and sodium sodium batteries are are a thing now samsung's making sodium batteries same logic as lithium for people out there listening or thinking sodium and they're thinking like salt obviously it's right but if you make a sodium carbon bond that sucker is reactive so you make it you you you you make a charged species with a sodium ion attached to it it's really reactive what makes it so reactive oh that's a fascinating question that's probably um they're simple answers but they'd be wrong and i i could i don't know how to give you a simple answer on this without um it turns out that if you think of the stability yes you start with your reagent you have to get over some big hump to get to the product so your reagent is sitting there and and if it's really unstable then you're closer to the hump right so so if you make the starting reagent unstable then getting over the hump is just a little hop skip and a jump so that makes it more reactive what makes it a complicated question is the hump also is destabilized by the existence of the sodium so so people often answer that question without thinking too thoroughly about it and i actually talk about this in class and stuff but um so the bottom line is is that i you know i i wrapped up my program about two years ago and i what do you mean you wrapped up your program i just let the grants go i just i just didn't renew them called it a day okay so you were doing that for a very long time 45 years yeah holy shit and and part of it was because my i had had the best group of my life um about five years ago six years ago i could be losing track of time and and then it it it really kind of just by there's ebbs and flows of research groups right it's like a football team right sometimes you win the pennant sometimes you don't yeah um my group had really gotten what i consider to be weak and uh and i said look i can eat i'm 69 years old my target was 70 i said i and we had we had a whole bunch of good organic chemists at cornell so i said look i i can try to rebuild or i can call it so i called it now what came next yeah you know all sorts of shit came next oh that was right before no no it was after covid i started to say covid but it was after covid but people were rattled by covid now it was right before trump took a bat to academia and so as i used to joke to my colleagues i'd say i wrote wrapped up my program last year you guys are wrapping up your program this year um there really still are serious funding problems and stuff so um so i think i caught the golden era of of of of academia i think academia's got a tough couple of decades ahead of it do you think some of that is really self-inflicted though absolutely yeah absolutely but also i i was talking to a bean counter at cornell we had a bean counter uh the accountant for the college of arts and sciences and i said i so she we invite people to our to our faculty meetings which we have every two weeks oh that's a lot we like them you like them we like them oh that's good you got 30 guys sitting around the table looking for a punch line yeah you like them these are smart guys looking for a punch line and um and we invite them people we might invite the person who runs the art museum oh that's cool and things like that so so you get the you get this bug up your ass you go okay let's invite that guy you know we get a new dean we invite the dean right so we invite the dean and right away you get a new president we invite the president right away and uh i asked her i said have you been invited to any other departments she said no now the last bean counter to come through was the university bean counter about five years earlier when i asked him he said the last time i was invited to a department was chemistry five years ago so we're the only department that does this now because of it though we understand the university yes we understand how it ticks i don't need to go into other departments say start bringing in guests you will not be so goddamn ignorant of how this university works if you start bringing in guests so i don't think the universities are as fucked up as trump thinks they are but i do think that we got pretty sloppy and they certainly have gone pretty left wing pretty left wing there was an understatement um but within chemistry for example we've never hired anyone based on anything but quality that's important and i i would remember because i would have been screaming if we didn't so you never felt the pressure come in to where you had to adhere to well we started hiring in the in the original idea of affirmative action we looked very hard and dusty corners to make sure that we were doing what society was demanding of us sure but when we finally made the offer these were people we thought by the way if they stack the deck in favor say women there is a reason to give them the benefit of the doubt or a tie break or whatever because because they're going to get funded in ways that the guys aren't and so they're not going to fail because failure to get resources enough like that and so that that actually makes it a more attractive offer they've sweetened the offer for us and despite that my colleagues i think are like 27 to 2 left wing now when you're a chemist you're running a small company you're you're you're you're building a program you're raising the money you're writing the papers you're doing everything you're teaching you're on you're chairing committees you're doing all sorts of stuff yeah i know where you find all your time to do you just work all day um people think academics sit around one day one day i posted a tweet i said i said uh everyone thinks academics are like cats sitting around you know smoking pot you know you know staring at the moon and licking their crotches and and i said i just want to be clear i don't smoke i don't smoke i don't smoke i don't smoke pot not anymore not anymore last time i smoked pot was one day in grad school and i had a panic attack it's been a while oh a long time yeah okay and uh and and you you you you look at my colleagues when they have time away from the classroom they're catching up on all the shit they want to get done so uh you know it's not rare for a chemist to work an eight hour week wow right yeah i mean i've always respected across whatever department it is the professors who will take on like full course loads while they're also literally writing books even writing research papers you're doing studies that require intricate details and things like that because your brain has to be in different places at all times like when i had hw in here and he's telling me about all the classes that he teaches all hw brands oh yeah yeah he was great amazing guy amazing i'm like where the fuck find the time he's writing he he averages more than a book a year and he teaches a full course load and he loves it at at at ut i'm like wow right no he was fascinating right it's really good um and um well the your job is kind of they used to say it's it's 50 teaching 50 research 50 committees but you know when i was young like as an assistant professor i worked seven days a week went in at nine left at 11 at night wow that that was and and you know when you you have a family stuff you start compromising but you know with laptops and stuff you're i'm still working until one in the morning doing whatever but now i've wrapped up my program i'm just completely you know tooling out on extra yeah you're spending on twitter and reading articles and stuff like that good for you i listen to audiobooks when i drive and so so there's no dead time for my brain there's there's absolutely no downtime yeah when did you i mean obviously you've had an extremely long career focused on chemistry and everything you just described around that but at what point did you really start to take an interest in a lot of other things as well and formulate thoughts because like i said your twitter feed like you're going across the gamut it's all over and yeah it's real schizophrenia that's all right i like that it's good so when i was in high school i i thought i wanted to go to walsh i didn't really know what it was i just thought it was cool it turns out it was i experienced the the the the boom leading up to 67 68 i remember you know watching my dad who bought carrier shares make a fortune off his carrier shares because a friend of his who who became the ceo of carrier eventually told him you should be buying these shares we are going places and my dad bought it you know so it was intriguing then somehow i got off that path because i was really kind of a science guy and then at the time there's no such thing as the scientists going to wall street if now it's gone now you see that now they want nothing but science right um but that was not even rational at the time so so i somehow got off that track when i got into the early 90s it was the beginning of the dot-com boom and i had accrued wealth because i'm a pretty good saver um you can see i don't overdress i like that my wife said wear something nice i said no um is I don't have anything nice, but that's, um, you know, for me, for me, for me, my squandering money is takeout, right? That that's, that's about as far as I go. Um, and getting you to buy me a latte. Goddamn right. Goddamn right. And I another one too. So I started paying attention to the markets. I had this fateful lunch with a traveling salesman. Sounds like we're going down penthouse letters mode. Um, and, uh, he would go from company to company and talk stocks and more and more, the executives at the companies wanted to go to lunch with him. And so here's this guy is just a bullshit traveling salesman, but he'd come in. So I, I got invited to a lunch with him and he said, he said, uh, he said, uh, here's two companies you ought to buy. And one was called Zelma or something. I don't know. It was, it turned out a bad idea. Yeah. There was a company called LDDS. Which was a small bandwidth band, bandwidth company out of Mississippi. Now people who know Wall Street well will recognize it, might recognize it. This LDDS in the early nineties became WorldCom. Ooh. So I bought LDDS when it was nothing. And then it turns out that I was a raging tech bull, which shows you that we were in a bubble. And then I started reading books about markets and stuff. And I, I started to go, wait a minute. Something's wrong here. Right. Then Y2K was coming. Before you get to the Y2K thing, what was the early part where you're like, hold on, this is way overinflated. Well, you can just look at the price of the market relative to earnings. There's about 25 good metrics of valuation. The average investor doesn't even know what valuation is. Valuation is the price of the market relative to something it should track. They both correct for inflation. So if inflation kicks in, the price of equities goes up and the revenues goes up, the earnings go up because that's what inflation does. What a lot of people don't realize is if we have a raging inflation, it will not take a high valuation and shrink it because they both go up. So if you are way overvalued, you can't inflate away the valuation. What you can do is make an overvalued market look terrifying because if inflation is roaring and you're pricing to two and a half percent return on your investments, you're, you're host. People don't see that. They don't seem to realize that saying, Oh, I'm just going to buy this AI bubble. Cause you know, why not? Yeah, we'll get to that. I've been microdosing something new lately and it's not what you think. A lot of people refer to it as nature's wine. The mushroom I'm talking about is called Amanita muscaria, the red one with the white spots from every fairy tale and video game ever. But here's the thing. Unlike psilocybin microdosing, Amanita doesn't push you into a psychedelic headspace. It's more like a gentle nervous system reset. It calms you down without making you foggy, helps you focus without the jitters, makes you sleep better, and makes you sleep way deeper without the hangover. 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Oh, oh, oh, O'Reilly. Check engine, ABS, or maintenance light on. Take the guesswork out of your warning lights with O'Reilly Veriscan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE certified master technicians. And if you need help, we could recommend a shop for you. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today. Auto Parts. Yeah. And, um, so I started to notice things were out of whack. And so I, I, I dumped half of my mutual funds, um, in July of 98. Ooh, good call. Oh, it gets better. It gets way better. You were selling airline stocks ahead of 9-11? That's a yes. That looks like a hard yes. No, I was flying planes. With a joystick, with a joystick. It's like, that's American Airlines. That's a little bit overvalued. Let's, let's bank that sucker into the Pentagon, right? And, uh, and I, and then it tanked into the, the, the late 98, the market cut way back. And, and, and I said, you're either a half genius or a half moron. About yourself. I left half of it in there and took half out. So I said, if it comes back, I'm getting the rest out. Cause I still think it was nuts. And it came back big. And it came back cause of Y2K. Cause green's been flooded the market with money because of the Y2K risk. Yeah. Yeah. But that was a whole thing. I kind of, I was way too young. I was like a baby basically, but people were really nervous. So when the computer reset. Well, some were and some were not. So here, here's what I think happened. So I'm talking to a friend of mine who founded, founded, my fraternity brother, founded Goldman Sachs software group. Who's this guy? Guy named Rick Sherland. You found Goldman Sachs software group. You are ground zero. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing okay. Right. And I'm talking to him one, one day. And, and, well, first of all, I call him and he doesn't answer. He's not there. I talked to his secretary and, and, and, and I said, if Rick ever gets an idea, this is when I was a tech ball still. And he says, I said, if Rick gets an idea, when they give to his grandmother, give me a call. And about 20 minutes later, she calls me and she said, well, Rick just ran through the office and I presented that to him. And he said, rational software. So it was like a movie on TV. Rational software. Rational software. Now I have no fucking idea what rational software is. And I said, did you mention that whole grandmother thing? And she said, yeah, I did. And so I, the next Monday I bought rational software way more than I should. Cause one of my best friends who's at the ground zero of the, of the software world said, buy it. You can't get better than that. And from the minute I bought it, it like went up two and a half fold over a period of a number of months. I go, now what do I do? And this, this is what told me wall street was nuts. I said, now what I do. And then I go, oh, reunions coming. I'll ask Rick again. So Rick comes in, I'm talking to Rick. I said, by the way, thanks for the rational software. I said, what should I do now? And he says, he starts thinking about it and he goes into Rick analyst mode. I can see him like all of a sudden like split personality. Right. And then he gets to the end of the, on the one hand, on the other hand, and he goes, you could start taking profits. Hmm. So on Monday morning, boom, all gone. Just jettison, the whole lot, you got rid of all of it. Just, just that one or everything just rational. And, and from that day, rational March back down to cheaper than when I bought it from that day. It sounds like he knew a little something. So, well, I think what I did was, is I got him thinking about something he hadn't paid attention to. And I think he walked through the office on Monday morning and said, tell our preferred customer, start. Taking profits on rational. That's what I think happened. Hmm. Then I realized how insane it is. So then it's way down. I said, should I buy it again? And he said, no, and then it went up four fold. And so I go, no one knows what they're doing here. No one knows. Abby Joseph Cohen was, was a, uh, a very prominent analyst during the dot-com boom. She was huge. She was not a partner. So I'm talking to Rick one day. I said, let me take a guess here, Rick. She's not very good. Yeah. But because she's so prominent, you're gonna have to make her a partner. And he looks at me and he says in October. So in any case, um, in the nineties, I put very close stops behind all my equities. And by mid 99, I was out. I dumped WorldCom with a 700% gain WorldCom eventually went bankrupt and he went to jail. Yeah. That wasn't genius. Bernie Ebers. I don't even know if he's out. He probably is. I think he just died. Right. Can we check that? I'm pretty sure Bernie Ebers died. How long did he go to jail for? That's what I'd really like to know. He went to jail. He got like a 20 year. Did he die in 2020? Yeah. Yeah. That's the man right there. He got a long ass sentence. So what did I go into? So I went to cash, this is mid 99 and I'm reading from some smart guys. The internet was now starting to talk and I used to send emails to guys and the emails were so unclogged at that point that I could send an email off to some executive director. Morgan Stanley. And he'd answer me. Were you sending an email to Jeffrey Epstein too? Yeah. Yeah. I'm on his email list. Yeah. I'm only there like 30, 40 times, but you know, and the jerky really kind of got old after a while. And watch, watch me get hammered for that joke. You have to, you have to asterisk those jokes. Yeah, I know. Those are jokes. Jokes. I'm just kidding. Jerky. Jerky jokes. Grape soda jokes. Oh. They didn't really hide it. And, and. And with Y2K coming, which, which I believe the risk was real, there's a guy named Jaeger who was really pumping them in. risk. And a guy named Yardeni, who was a big Wall Streeter, who really bought the story, and he went wild on it. Can we pull up Yardeni? Now, Yardeni hasn't made a negative call since because Yardeni got hammered. Now, Yardeni really fell for it, and nothing happened. Now, I've had software guys say, oh, we fixed it. That's a bullshit story. Because you know and I know that if there was a real problem, there would be little brush fires all over the world. That's right. Right? You say, oh, we've got a fundamental virus that's covered the world. Oh, we just fixed it. No, it's not going to happen. You're going to be putting out brush fires for a long time after that, because we might have fixed it, and most companies, but certainly Venezuela didn't fix it, right? And stuff like that. So it was a scam to sell software and hardware. It took me years to realize I didn't just make a mistake. I fell for a scam. Now, what it did do is it taught me about supply chains, because I started digging into, what if? What if they can't move goods and services? And that became a useful piece of information. So it first showed up in COVID. So when I saw COVID coming, the markets seemed to not give a shit. And I'm going, they're about to shut down the global economy, and no one's selling? Yeah, it was crazy. So I'm in the grocery store buying all the protein, buying all the toilet paper, and no one's giving a shit yet. And I go, no, I've been through this math, already. Is this like February or January? This would have been maybe. I've got emails back in January questioning the narrative, talking to biochemists saying, there's something fishy about this virus. I don't understand it. For one thing, respiratory viruses, there's so many of them, it made no sense to me. Um, but in any case, I, uh, in 99, because of Y2K, I shorted the market, not a big chunk. And I bought gold. Hmm. Real Peter Schiff guy. Real, Peter Schiff and I see each other every October. Yes. And, uh, I'd like to think I'm a little less aggressive than Peter, but, um, but I bought gold. And to tell you how cheap it was, I was buying it in the Central Fund of Canada, which was trading at 28% below book value. So I was buying it at 28% discount. So I was buying gold when it was too. I was buying it at $270, which meant it was probably about $220. I was buying silver around. How were you getting it that divorced from where the market was? Because no one gave a shit. So at one time I was talking to Chris Martinson and Chris, we were laughing about it because people say, well, it was so easy to buy gold when it was 300, because it was so cheap. And we were laughing when we got the reason it was 300 is because there wasn't a person on the fucking planet who gave a shit about gold. It was so, the Bank of England sold the last of its gold. Canada emptied the last of its gold. I mean, no one wanted to. They wanted gold. And somehow, a little voice in my head said it. And so I bought gold. I've not sold an ounce. So I was buying it at $220. Oh, you still have it? I still have it all, yeah. Good for you. And I bought it. I used to go to the coin dealer and go to the bank and get a thousand bucks and buy three ounces of gold. Oh, you were in, in. I was in, in. You were in, in. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the proper part, right? And so my net worth is probably 40% gold right now. And I haven't sold it because I haven't, first of all, I don't know where to put the money because everything looks terribly risky to me. Everything does look like it is divorced from reality. And I think I've been looking at this a lot because I studied the financial crisis when it happened. I was like a freshman in high school and it was so fascinating to me that you could see that the world just completely shifted overnight. And suddenly, you know, people couldn't afford things they could afford the day before. That was just weird for me to look at. So I really started, probably started looking at it maybe like a year later, sophomore, junior year of high school. And, you know, what ended up happening there is you came out the other side and the people that ended up okay were people that were rich before the crisis. The people who lost the balls of their ass and their life savings and stuff, they ended up selling anything they had at the low mark and then didn't get back in and didn't get paid on the way back up and to say nothing of the quantitative easing and all the inflating away the value of the dollar that we did during that time. And to me, what it's done is it took a market that pre-08 already had a very small percentage representing Main Street, right? And then you could add in a percentage where it's like pension funds obviously represent Main Street and they would use their levers and invest in everything. But you basically had elites that were already running the stock market. And we've run the stock market for a long time. We've run the percentages on it before. But since then, that percentage of like Main Street that is represented in the stock market is now like this. Right. As opposed to like this. But it's also all their savings. It's all their savings, but like they have no power. You know what the median boomer of 70-year-old boomer has in their. I tweeted this yesterday. The median boomer. Median. You don't use average because it includes Bill Gates, right? The median boomer has a retirement fund of $200,000. The median? $200,000 for a 70-year-old. That's not a lot of money. That's not going to buy you lattes for the rest of your life, right? That's going to be, hello, welcome to Walmart. They have a $27,000 social security payout. So you do the math, they're bringing in like, if they take the money out conservatively out of their retirement account, they're making like $32,000. Our grad students make $45,000. Right. And so this idea that the boomers have all the money, there are boomers who have all the money, but the boomers collectively are. Big, big trouble. Yeah. The way that you say median versus mean is very, very important. It's just when you look at that, I'm going to throw a random percentage on it without looking at the actual data. When you look at say that top 20%, if we want to go Pareto route, obviously the hard assets that they hold on to and have allowed to accumulate over the years, talking about the boomer generation, that's where people take issue because you have boomers that are maybe 60, 70 years old and they're holding on to houses. They're not going to be able to buy anything. They're not going to be able to buy the houses they bought for 10 grand 40 years ago. Maybe not 10 grand, but you know what I mean, 30 grand 40 years ago, and now the houses are worth three and a half million. And so the younger generations, which are already represented smaller demographically, they can't touch it. They can't get in the game. That's a problem. Well, it is a problem. I actually had Milo Yiannopoulos one day tell me that I was a traitor to my generation and that I might actually survive the boomer purge. What? Why did he call you a traitor? Because I was actually not supportive of the boomers in a way. People accuse me of being supportive of the boomers. They don't understand. Here's what we should do. We should raise rates. We should keep raising rates because what it'll do, it'll cut the market in half. Boomers get hammered. The younger generation gets to buy assets at a reasonable price. You raise the rates, you cut the houses in half. The boomers get hammered. The younger generation can now finally afford houses. Right. When I was a system professor, I started in '80. I was able to buy a house at '81. It was 44,000. The interest rates were 16%. When you walk into a realtor's office, they say, "How much money do you have? What's your income? Here's what you can afford." If the interest rates are 16%, you can't afford anything, which is why the houses were cheap because the market couldn't support high prices because interest rates were too high. Then I own houses the whole way from 16% down to zero. That's right. That's where they appreciate. Here's what was going to happen. The boomers, by definition, were going to create a boom. They were going to create a boom demographically. They were entering the workforce. They brought their wives. Markets were dirt cheap in '80, dirt cheap in '80. The Soviet Union was collapsing. Not yet, but it was weakening. It was selling resources to get capital. China was coming out of the dark ages and selling slave labor for pennies. Everything was a tailwind. We were going to have a boom. In retrospect, it was patently obvious we were going to have a huge boom. Meanwhile, so what happened over the next 45 years? This is stunning. Valuation shouldn't trend. By the way, your table's noisy. You ever notice that? You're listening on podcasts? Yeah. Table pun, you get all wackage. I like that. Okay. We built it. You should put a bell on it or something. They should go up and down and wander around and stuff. When they get expensive, when they get high, their markets are expensive. Then they correct, they get cheap. That was going from cheap to expensive and back again. For 110 years, Case-Shiller PE averaged 15. That's a time-averaged price-earnings ratio. Right. In '94, it took off, and there's a big debate as to why in '94 it left the channel. TPP? TPP. That was the Trans-Pacific Partnership, right? Well, there's a debate. I thought it was a bond market bailout that they just never took their foot off the gas. Mike Green, one time I was on a Twitter space with a guy named George Noble, who's a very famous Wall Street guy, and Mike Green was there, and he's the expert on passive investing. He said that's when passive investing began, to take off. Now, I didn't quite know. I thought Green had a simple model. Green has a very complex When you say passive investing for people out there, you're talking about ETFs, that kind of thing? That's where you just hand over your money to Fidelity and say, you invest in it. And it goes into an index fund. Here's the problem with passive investing. You're not paying for something based on its value. So there's no price discovery. So one time I cornered Jack Bogle, who invented passive investing. The Vanguard guy. Vanguard guy. He invented it. It was his senior thesis in college. And I cornered him. You cornered him? I cornered him. Buttonholed him. He was at Cornell. And I said, Jack, I got a question to ask. I said, the problem with index funds is that there's no longer adult supervision. Because there's no longer big pension fund managers walking in the CEO's office saying, get your shit together or we're selling your shares. So now the more the shares go up, the more money you're going to get. And I said, Jack, I got a question to ask you. The more money they get allocated, the more they go up. And so there's this natural expansion where stocks get deprived of flow and other stocks get huge flow. It created a new layer in between reality. Right. And so all of a sudden there's no short sellers left. Short sellers sell the top and buy the bottom. So they round out the sharp points. They actually serve a very important purpose. They also find the criminals. So good short. They sometimes create fake stories and there are some bad ones. For sure. They find the criminals. They're the guys who find that Ebers is off balance sheet crap and Enron and so forth. They were short sellers who discovered Enron. It was Jim Chanos, actually. And they don't exist anymore. They've all been destroyed. There's hardly any even market neutral types where they short half and go long half. It's just not paid. And that's a bad sign. So over the 45 years where not trend from 81, which was cheap, so admittedly, that's trough, to what we'll call the peak today. The market's compounded 4% annually of the valuation, not the price of the valuation. So it went from a P of 6 to a P of 40-something. Now, at some point in the future, it's going back to 6. Why? I think it'll go all the way back to 6. Always does. There's never been an asset class in history that didn't find its way from expensive back to cheap since ancient Rome. They just come and they go. They just go back. I don't know when. Could be 10 years from now. I don't know when. You studied asset classes in ancient Rome? Well, here's a good one. Gold in ancient Rome bought a month's worth of labor. Hard labor. How much would that be today? How much would a month of hard labor be today? About $4,000. It depends where you're buying it. Right. That's the price of an ounce of gold. So there are things to learn from looking at history. And they used to say it bought a good suit, but what's a toga cost? How do you do that one? So my best decade was the noughts. Now, I actually had at least one year, maybe two triple digits in the late teens when I was still a bull. When I owned Dell Computer, and WorldCom, and Warner Lambert. These were unbelievable companies. In the '90s, you mean? In the '90s, when I was still a bull. But the noughts were my best decade graded on a curve, because during the noughts where two bear markets did some serious correcting of investor attitudes-- So you had the dot-com bubble, and then the housing bubble. Right. I actually-- I went long energy. Not because I saw an energy cycle coming, which did come, a commodity cycle, a big one, just to hedge inflation. To me, inflation was-- I grew up with inflation, so inflation is always a risk in my mind. And I bought energy. So I'm gold energy, golden energy through the noughts. And so it turns out, well, when I was getting killed, I compounded 13% a year. Wow. Right. Now, what happened is-- I passed that whole decade. Yeah. That was-- that beat everybody. Oh, I bet. Yeah. And in 2009, I was on a chat board from the late '90s chatting about how fucked up everything is. Now, are you doing this under your name or under a pseudonym? Well, it was under a pseudonym back then. It was the name Thomas. And I actually published a couple of blogs under the name Thomas. That's my son's name. Then I went-- then I came out of the closet. What made you come out of the closet? I finally decided, fuck it. Right. When was this? Well, I published a couple articles. I used to chat late at night. See, one of the things I was not bashful about was reaching out to smart people and chatting. You just got to make sure Chris Hansen's not on the other side. That's the important thing. I was chatting late at night with an obscure Harvard professor named Elizabeth Warren. Oh. You see how this looks, right? She seemed like a real honest person to me. I'm not quite sure I got that right or she changed. I don't know which. Could be both. But then she got put in charge of TARP oversight committee. I sent her an email and I said, "You just drew the shortest strong history getting that TARP oversight where that was the bailout 0809. She was supposed to oversee it." Well, she was still at Harvard then, right? She was still at Harvard. Yeah. So I said to her, I said, "I got a friend at the New York Fed who you might need allies." And she said-- Who was your friend? A guy named Rich Uelig. Okay. And I said, "You might need allies. He might be good to get to know." It turns out Rich was former president, former CEO of Morgan Stanley Bank. And she said, "Thank you." And then just shook it off. And then about two weeks later, she says, "Could you give me that name of your friend at the Fed?" So she was clearly getting overwhelmed. And here I am in a three-way between the TARP oversight chair, the CEO of Morgan Stanley Bank, the banking subsidiary, and me and I'm going, "How did I get here?" This was pretty weird. So in any event, in '09, I wrote up kind of a bit of a biography, kind of a bit of a history, looked at my analysis, looked at-- I used to measure my net worth based on multiples of my annual salary, which caught people's attention. You measured your net worth based on multiples? So I have plots showing multiples of my annual salary from 1990. Can you explain what that means in English? Also, let's say after the first year, it's 10% of my annual salary. So the plot would be 0.1 on the Y axis. And the idea being that if you measure multiples of your annual salary, that kind of covers the whole inflation problem and everything. And at some point, you'll have enough multiples where you can say, "I can retire." And because I've got so many years of salary equivalents. And your salary also goes up. You know, it does drift up if you're doing better, if you're getting promoted, things like that. And so it's a way of scaling that all together. And as of '09, I'd had no losing year. And then I had a couple after that, one or two small ones, nothing big. But it caught people's attention. And so next thing I know, I got invited to go on Capital Accounts, which was this show by a woman named Lauren Lister. Who you would die for. Lauren Lister? Lauren Lister. Pull up Lauren. Lauren Lister. Real fox. Good looking woman. Yeah. So I was invited down to do a Capital Accounts podcast interview, half hour. So I go over to our media guys and say, "Look, I've never done TV. Would you help me out? Make sure I'm not making any avoidable rookie errors." And I'm like, "Yeah, sure." And they're like, "Yeah, sure." And they filmed a little bit of me. I said, "You got no idiosyncrasies." I go, "That's the first time I've ever heard that." And I went down there and she's there with a guy named Dimitri Kofinas. Dimitri Kofinas. Hidden Forces podcast. Okay. And at one point, I'm talking to Dimitri. So I'm there all day and they're preparing the half hour interview. But our media guy said, "You know, this is big, right?" I go, "What do you mean?" He said, "These guys hit 350 million set up boxes." I go, "This is bigger than CNN International." Yeah, I was going to say that. With Russia Today. Oh, it was RT. It was RT. All right. I want you to picture this. You get a last minute invite. Could be a dinner, an opening, or even being a plus one to a wedding that's only two weeks away. You need something to wear and you need it fast. And this is when you head straight on over to Revolve Man. Revolve Man is the curated fashion platform. 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And I asked him later, I said, in our first interview, were you actually having trouble hanging on to reality at that point? He said, yeah. So he had a tumor that said, you're dying. And some guy at Columbia Med fixed him, but everyone else said, you're going to die. And he was really losing his marbles. Yeah. Enough that they ended up breaking up with Lauren Lister. He was losing his marbles, huh? You don't break up with her if you got your marbles. And she's disappeared because she got a much more highly paying gig that caused her to just go off radar. I think it was a big mistake. It was one of those, went for the money and ended up, maybe she's doing important stuff that she likes doing, but she disappeared from my radar, put it that way. So I did that a few times, and I got on the podcast circuit. But one of the things that got me into the story was I realized that I was going to die. And I was like, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. And I realized that you can't understand finance without understanding politics. And then I started digging into politics. Then I realized- So you had never really done that before? Not really. I remember in grad school, someone mentioned Aldo Moro getting assassinated, and I didn't know who he was. He was appalled that I didn't know who Aldo Moro was, right? So no, I was too busy doing chemistry. And then I discovered that politics was weird. And to understand politics, you got to understand all this stuff. And what really sent me down terrible rabbit holes was this- This question of- Well, the woke period was fun to write about because it was so comical at some level. And then in 2020, I got canceled. I got my ass kicked pretty good. You got canceled? Yeah, big cancel. What'd you do? Oh, I supported the police. And remember the guy in Buffalo got knocked over? The guy in Buffalo. Old man in Buffalo, poking riot police. Turned out he had a skimmer. He was scanning their equipment. I don't remember this at all. He was during the George Floyd- I don't remember this at all. Floyd riots. You weren't out there with the George Floyd signs? No, no, no, no. I was a drug dealer. And so a guy named Chris Irons, QTR, you might see him on Twitter. He posted and said, this is just awful. He got knocked over and blood's coming out of his ear and stuff. And I looked at it and I said, you know, Chris, we can talk about it on Saturday. We're going to do a podcast. I said, but I don't know what he was doing there, right? Something was fishy about the story. And I said, I don't know. And that's what I do all the time. I find that thing that doesn't make sense, that puzzle piece that doesn't fit. Yeah. You're like a real Columbo. And I got one for you. We can talk about half the factor before, but during, but I got one for you that'll piss you off. And I asked some doctors, blood come out of the ear. Does that make sense? They said, no. I said, no, it takes quite a while to build up enough pressure in the head for the blood to come out of the ear. It turns out you could see a little thing looked like a hearing aid. So I didn't see any of that. A little pyrotechnics. But I said, I don't know what he was doing. He looks like he was poking the riot police with something. I said, you know, it looks kind of self-inflicted to me. Now I didn't say he deserved it, but self-inflicted is pretty goddamn clear when you're poking a riot policeman, right? And you get knocked on your ass. Mm-hmm. So he supposedly was in a coma. His Twitter feed, which had hate the police all over it, was getting scrubbed while he was in a coma. Getting scrubbed. Cleaning out all the tweets that said, I hate the police. Then I find a video of him arguing with a bunch of people saying, I'm going to go pick a fight with the cops. And they're arguing back saying, why would you do that? You know, and this and that. And so the whole thing was a setup. I didn't know that when I've tweeted, but the tweet got, my tweet got picked up by some famous Hollywood actor. And I've, I've read the tweet that he did many times. I can't find the dog whistle, but somehow that triggered a very astroturfed cancellation. A Hollywood actor. A 2 million follower Hollywood guy. I can't remember. Retweeted you to say. He tweeted something about me. Chris picked it up and then he deleted the tweet. So it got really weird. And within. Chris Mortensen? Chris Irons. Oh, the guy that was. And then within 20 minutes, emails were hitting every email box on campus. And over the next few days, this was during COVID lockdown. Next few days, graffiti all over the campus, fire column, this and that. Right. Now I had already gotten in trouble with the students because twice, twice I'd fought labor unions. Now, it's not an inherent opposition to labor unions, but unionizing grad students made no sense to me. I saw it as actually very destructive to the academic world. I got asked to fight the union the first time by the dean of faculty. And so I helped organize a group. They fought it. They kicked the shit out of the unions. Nothing happened. The union showed up again. Now the American Federation of Teachers, Randy Weingarten, talk about wanting to spot her in a crosswalk. She's a real fucking gem. Yeah. Just go on that crosswalk, Randy. I bet you there's a half of the country would hit the gas. And. That's a joke, YouTube. That's a joke. And I got into it with her and her union. And they played it much better. They knew how to play it. And we almost, we were going to lose. And then I took one last shot at picking a fight. With the pro union guys and some dumb shit in the union posted my fight. And then the fight was on. And then the Daily Sun called me and wanted to do an article. And I knew it was going to be a hit piece. And I normally wouldn't do that. No, I'll do an email-based interview so that I can control the flow of the information. But I said, fuck it. Let's do it. So at the very end, I said, I'm not done. And the woman said, oh, what else would you like to say? No. I said, that's a quotable quote. I'm not done. She took the bait. And so next thing I know, there is a brawl on. And we beat them by 60 fucking votes out of 2,000. And they were so mad. And they spent millions of dollars. Whoa. So then they hammered me. Then they slash and burned some. What year is that? Probably 17-ish, somewhere in there. Then in 2020, when the cancellation showed up, I could see the fingerprints of the union guys in there. Sure. But it was more than just that. All for saying a guy picked a fight. That's what they were canceling. They were waiting. You probably don't remember, but that was peak of cancellation. Yeah, no, I remember it well. They canceled anything that moved. Yeah. No, it's crazy how low the bar got with that. I mean, man. So eventually, I got denounced. Cornell made some mistakes, but the president, the current president- Oh, he denounced you? Well, the current president's a friend. And he denounced you? Well, he's the one who called me when he was provost and asked me to fight the union, right? So I'm sitting there thinking, okay, I can see the court case. Witness number one is going to be who is currently now our president. Did you ask him? And so I didn't think I'd lose my job, but it was during lockdown. I was worried about Antifa. I knew the Cornell kids weren't going to come and kill me, but I wasn't sure about Antifa because they were running wild. It was still George Floyd season. Yeah. And so I slept with a couple of loaded guns. I was emotional. My wife was PO'd. She goes, why would you tweet that? And I go, read the fucking tweet. Just read the tweet. I didn't say anything. And you're just sleeping with a loaded gun? Two of them. Yeah. And I was ready to blow someone away. I was hoping it wouldn't be a Cornell student because that would be a problem for Cornell. But no one showed up because we're locked down and Antifa probably can't drive. So in any case, that was ugly. That was unpleasant. Yeah. We're locked down with my son in his main squeeze. And so we're having a great time. And, uh, and, and, and You make your son sleep with a load of guns, too? No, but I did put steak knives in every room. Okay. Just in case I got cornered. In case you got cornered. Yeah. You'd go with a knife. And so at one point, Tucker said to me, he said, how many of your colleagues at Cornell have guns? And I said, well, actually, we have a natural resources department. I bet they have guns. And so in any event, so here's what happened. We kind of got ugly as COVID showed up, and I spotted the problem. Our university made the call that you had to get vaccinated or you quit. Or you quit. You get fired, period. No exceptions. Now, you as a chemistry professor and researcher over a lot of years, I would imagine- Former chair. I'm the only guy in the chemistry department to hold all four administrative positions. And I would imagine through your work, you are very familiar with pharma companies. Oh, I consulted for- I consulted for Pfizer for 20 years. Okay. I was on Merck's long-range steering committee. Five scientists worldwide, one of those five, they lifted up their skirt of everything they were doing, say, what do you think? I was a journal editor for 20 years. By the way, for anyone listening, when someone says peer-reviewed, that's horseshit. When someone says it's not peer-reviewed, that's horseshit. A fact is a fact is a fact. Don't worry about whether it's peer-reviewed. If they say it was peer-reviewed to defend their case, that's horseshit. Typical peer-review takes about- Every time. It just means nothing. Sometimes peers review well, and sometimes they hand it to their grad students. Sometimes they make themselves a pot of coffee and spend an hour reading the paper and say, yeah, sure, what the fuck, why not? And so peer-review carries- It doesn't in any way, shape, or form mean it's worth a shit. Okay. Okay. And that's true for everything. Yeah. Now, the head of the New England Journal of Medicine, Oh, I remember this. Marsha Angel, said, I hate to say this, but after 20 years of being the editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, you can't believe anything in this journal. So here's what I'll tell you has happened. Pharma picked the low-lying fruit. They still try to get it right. They still try to find new drugs that do things. They try to find drugs that maintain you. Curing you isn't very profitable. Right, subscription model. Subscription model, yeah. What has happened, unfortunately, appears to be the case. Is that when they get a drug that doesn't work, they sell that too. And I'm pretty pissed at pharma at this point. When you were directly connected with them for so long and knew some serious people- I only saw chemistry. But you never called, like, behind the scenes, you weren't looking at some of these objectively, like, smart people and saying, what the fuck are we doing here with this thing over here? No, because I only saw chemists. You want to see the fraud, you go to the med school. You can go to the clinical trials. So here's some books to read. I'm going to- I find in podcasts, people like books. They like these. Oh, give us more books. So you start out by- And people will blow a snot bubble on this one. It's a brilliant book. And that's The Real Anthony Fauci by Bobby Kennedy. I've heard it's really good. It's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. Fauci should be taken to The Hague and tried for crimes against humanity prior to COVID. Yeah. Prior to COVID. Then you read the book Sickening by John Abramson. He's the guy. He's the guy who figured Vioxx was killing people. And he's now an expert at clinical trials. And he tells a horror story of how clinical trials are rigged. How does he explain the psychology of it? Does he say it's just- Psychopaths. Yeah. Just psychopaths. If you can't make that call, you can't have that job. But you got to have, with the psychopaths, because I agree, that makes a lot of sense. You have to have people that, yes, men go along with it too. Or psychopaths. They also silo them. So a doctor- A doctor might be in a med school providing data for clinical trials. Yeah. And he doesn't know where that data is going. Yeah. Now, the other thing I'll tell you is that they flat out rig them. Like when Fauci ran the AZT trials, he so wanted a drug. This is during the AIDS crisis. During the AIDS crisis. They completely fabricated the data. They were actually giving blood transfusion to AZT recipients, knowing they were the AZT guys, to keep them alive. They were swindling. They were switching control group and AZT. AZT was a lethal drug. It is easily argued that none of these drugs cured anything that the AIDS epidemic has run its course. That's what they do. Now, that gets us to Cheryl Atkinson's book, Follow the Science. Cheryl's phenomenal. Phenomenal. She's been writing about science. I think I've heard of her. You would have. Oh, you should get her in here if you can. Cheryl, can we talk about that? Can we pull her up? Cheryl Atkinson. Atkinson. Atkinson. I want to see if I recognize her. She did Follow the Science, and she just went through all the things she's been writing about for. She's a fourth-degree black belt in Taekwondo. Good for her. Doesn't mean anything, though. Black belts are like peer-reviewed papers. She might be really good, but. Is anything real, Dave? I'm wondering. I think the simulation model's looking pretty good right now. Oh, God. But she. So, here's a funny story. I wrote about Ashley Babbitt getting shot on January 6th. To me, the post-January 6th response, locking those guys away, is the most heinous crime in American history. Right there. The most heinous crime ever? Yeah, the way they. Well, you know, you can argue bombing the shit out of people. If you take away some of the wars and shit, but it's a big one. Yeah, it's a big one. And I wrote about the Ashley Babbitt shooting, something being wrong. What was wrong? Well, there was a bunch of things. One is there was no blood splattered. There was very little blood. A neck shot, no blood. Hello. Right? Doesn't make sense. The guys who busted open the window for Ashley to crawl through, as soon as they busted open the window, the guy ran away from the window, runs down past the cops, takes down his backpack, changes his shirt. Videotapes. I watched hours of videotapes from that scene. And there were people in there who knew each other. There were guys giving knowing nods to each other like this, you know, going back and forth. There was a guy trying to open a gauze pad. It's like no one was providing health care, right? You know, if someone's got a neck shot, I took some first aid I had to in chemistry. You rip off your shirt, you jam it on the wound, right? You stop the bleeding. No one was doing any of that. So the guy's ripping open the gauze pad. One guy's narrating this. He's going, oh, look at gauze boy over there. He can't seem to get that gauze pad open. He finally gets it open. What's he do? He wipes her jacket with it. Whoa. Cool. So everything's wrong and I write about it and I send it off to my brother. He says, I see your point, but they didn't watch all the hours I did. And he said, I don't know, you know, and then, so I sent it off to Brendan Eich who wrote Brave and wrote Firefox and was pre IPO Netscape, who's a smart bastard. He said, I see your point, but got the same. So I wrote a much shorter version of what I would have written. It's also video based and I'm writing, so it's hard to make the case. So I said, okay, here's the link. Here's what I think went on. I don't know. I had also seen Ashley. I'd seen her before she got shot and I go, how is that possible? I'd seen some, I knew, I recognized her. You had seen her? I'd recognized her from a video somewhere and I go, that seems awfully coincidental. Right. Like, like a video that. Some, yeah, where she was ranting about, you know, the election or something. I mean, that, that, that is who might go that day. Right, but there's 350 million people in this country. So that's a little on the weird side. I, I picked up photos of Ukrainian operatives in the crowd. You got, you got. Ukrainian operatives in the crowd. Ukrainian operatives. How do you know they were Ukrainian? Because picture the guy with, with QAnon shaman and picture the guy in Ukraine with the Waffen, the SS symbol on his helmet. Same guy. Right. And, and then there was, remember Ray Epps? Clearly a fat. Oh, yeah. Clearly a fat. Let's go. Remember John Sullivan? Which one was he? John was the fair skinned black guy who filmed Ashley Babbitt getting shot and was like, was also supposedly Antifa. And I went back and read Antifa posts on Twitter and they all said, don't trust him. He's a fed. Oh, whoa. This guy. There we go. John Sullivan. Yeah, that guy. And January 6th rioter who sought to incite violence by Trump supporters sentenced to six years. Yeah, well, guess what? He got out. And also he's potentially expendable. You know, you can work for the FBI and think you're on the same team and not realize that you are about to get written out of the plot. Sure. So I see John Sullivan. He'd been raised to hell through George Floyd riots and stuff. He'd been everywhere. And and and I start digging into John Sullivan. And what you find out, first of all, the Antifa guy said he's a fed. He films Ashley Babbitt getting shot. What a coincidence. And he goes in there with a journalist. She didn't get arrested. And and and then I see pictures of him talking to Ray Epps. I go, what's going on here? Now, cinema. Here's as I've told the story a few times. What is your image of Antifa? It's a loser. Right. I mean, it's a terrible. This is a guy with nothing left in life. Right. There's a guy who's homeless. There's a guy. Right. These are these guys being recruited for, you know, someone's giving them drugs to go out. I think pretty much anyone that, you know, and I peaceful regular protest is constitutional and I fully support it. I just don't think it works because I think largely whenever you see any. sort of political movement that's going on and people show up. It's not even just that there's someone behind it. The fact that there's always someone behind it with money makes the point entirely, which is that it's people who have nothing fucking going on in their life. John Sullivan was a nationally ranked cyclist. FBI or Antifa? FBI. Right. Yeah. Right. So I don't really tell this story in all its glory, although I provide enough information where it's on record. Three years later, Cheryl Atkinson sits down with the tapes and two federal agents, and they go through the tapes. They're going, this is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. Thank you. So I reached out to Cheryl and was chatting with her a little about it. She doesn't want to hear about the things she missed because she'd already done the story. Right. So that's what I do comfortably, and that is I spot something that I go, there's just, you know the book Blink? By Malcolm Gladwell. Gladwell. Yeah. Brilliant book. Yeah, brilliant. The subconscious mind goes, nope. Yep. Nope. I, nope, nope, nope. Something's wrong. It's opening chapter about the ancient statue that the Getty Museum studied for 14 months and paid 10 million bucks to buy. And some expert walked in there and said, it's fake. Just, boom, it's fake. Not even a preamble. It's fake. You go, what do you mean it's fake? They go, something's wrong. They brought in more experts. One turned to them and said, you pay for it, you know? Mm-hmm. And the expert, more experts came in. So for 14 months they studied it and they all missed it, and then the story unraveled. Right? So the subconscious mind does amazing things. It tells you something's wrong. That's how we survive. That's evolution. Right? You go, there's something wrong here. The birds aren't chirping. There's something wrong, right? So there must, you know, something's wrong. There must be a lion lurking in the savannah. But they program us to say there's nothing wrong at all times. Or they program us to see everything that's wrong, right? So it's really getting complicated now. Yes, noise. So I dig into all sorts of stuff, and some stuff I just don't have the patience for. Now on a daily basis, you get enough stuff that would dwarf the Watergate scandal, for example. Oh, yeah. Which, by the way, was a total-- We have 37 Watergates in the last three months. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Watergate was a total psyop to get Nixon out of office, right? You think so? Oh, yes. All right, hold that thought. I just got to go to the bathroom. Go for it. But I want to hear about this. All right, Watergate, you were saying? I haven't read a lot about this. You know who's written about this a lot? You didn't talk to him about it. Nick Bryant. Has he really? Yeah. I think he wrote a book on it. On Watergate? On Watergate. He might have mentioned that, but that's stovepiped in there somewhere. I thought it was really evil of you to put up Nick Bryant followed by Brett Weinstein before-- Weinstein-- before bringing me. I'm going, you know, I'm the warm-up band, guys. It's not fair to put me after that. Nah, you're the clean-up hitter. I'm the clean-- OK, I'm batting clean-up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're on base. No, I am-- I like-- I'm a big fan of Nick Bryant, too. We've had a lot of long discussions. We've had podcasts. We've had-- and he is a great resource. And I don't know if you talked to him off camera, but there's things that he knows, but he doesn't know, sort of airtight court of law knows that he won't say. But by phone, he will. I-- presumably, if he chatted with you, he would. That's a good-- but that's the thing-- But that's what he has to do. That's a good-- that's a good journalist doing that, yeah. No, no, that's what he has to do. So the Watergate story is quite simple, actually. The entire burglary crew are CIA guys. Let's start with that. You say, well, but someone went to jail. I go, that's what they do. I mean, that's like an assignment. They probably went to some club fed, got filet mignon, right? That's an assignment. They had to do it. Sheep dipped. Yeah. And Deep Throat was second in the FBI. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was the source for Bernstein and-- That's right. Yeah. And Woodward, that was his first gig as a reporter. Yeah. What was he before he was a reporter? Navy intelligence. Yeah. What part of that story adds up to-- It's a little strange. Yeah. It would seem like, if that's the argument that's made, and there's evidence there, and there seems to be some evidence, it's a classic entrapment plot. Yeah. And Nick's was very popular. And the question is why. And we'll never know that. It might have been because he implied he knew who shot Kennedy or something. I don't know. Could have been any-- But I don't care about that. They just wanted him out for some reason. Could have been a lot of things. And that's-- He turned against Israel. I don't know. I-- That's where it gets interesting, too. Because it's like, if you look at that-- I've talked with some people off camera, as well, who have walked me through some of the Watergate stuff. And it's sketchy, for sure. But you wonder, like, you see that story. A couple of months ago, where that woman-- what was it, Steve? She was, like, going to bomb something. You know what I'm talking about? So it turned out to be this lady got radicalized, air quotes there, on Islam. And she's American. And she went that way. And then it turned out she was working, I guess, unbeknownst to her, with some undercover agents who were pushing her psychologically to do that. And then she said, I'm going to blow the place up or whatever. So obviously, yeah. Women's alleged ISIS radicalization unfolded online before-- Yeah, the FBI can't solve a crime unless they set it up. Right. So when I see a story like this, I go, well, obviously, they found someone who's pushable, someone who's a little crazy, a little off, who then did agree to do something that's pretty bad. And you're like, yeah, I don't love having that person on the street. But there's equal or more blame on the people who are doing the Joker, just a little push. Oh, way too much. Like the Whitmer kidnapping and shit like that. Exactly. That's evil. Exactly. It's evil. It's evil. So here's the question. How broadly based is it? I think if there's one thing we've learned in the past, say, decade or so, it is much more broadly based than we thought. And I look at it as a prime one of the main things you need to immediately evaluate in any situation for pretty much anything that comes up now. Right. So I am debilitated by a bias that I know I have. And that is that-- I think MKUltra, which I thought was internet legend, and I was way off. When did you first hear about MKUltra? Oh, years ago. But I thought it was just bullshit. And then I read about the church commission and everything. I said, holy shit, that was absolutely, positively real. So then I went through all the books, Poisoner in Chief, and all this shit. You're a chemistry guy too, so that's up your alley now. Right. And Chaos, which is a brilliant book, and Strange Scenes in the Canyon. And there are just so many of these books. And I realize MKUltra is very real. I also don't believe it failed, and I don't believe that they stopped. That's right. Right. So the question is, how broadly based is this? So for example, there's some status on-- maybe this is not even true-- that nine shooters, which by the way, I would say within an error bar, I would think all the shooters were not just crazy kids. What shooters? You name them. Kids who walk into elementary school, shoot up the place. Interesting. I think they're all, all-- being-- now, this is the bias, right? So I see MKUltra everywhere I turn around. Now, you get things like Uvalde, where the guy goes in and shoots up the place. The cops don't go in at all for 78 fucking minutes. Question real quick, Dave. Yeah. Because it is sketchy. It's very sketchy. Is it even simpler as a program? And here's what I mean by that question. Right. If I were running MKUltra, and then it was like, well-- You're about to hit the gold mine right now. Yeah, we can't do this anymore, right? Mm-hmm. Oh, we stopped. And you rebrand it. You do something else. Maybe I also change the divisions of that branch. And maybe one division of whatever things they do there is, you know what? We're going to really start pushing these things called SSRIs. Well-- And let nature take its course. There's no way I'm letting you off that hook. OK. I'm going to the SSRIs and SNRIs, because my wife is on them. Now, so you're running MKUltra. If you read something like Annika Lucas, watch your podcast, Kathy O'Brien, there were truly enormous numbers of kids who were in that program. You got the GATS program, Gifted and Talented Students Program. Yeah, I had Julia Mossberg in there. And I was on a podcast with a guy named Monarch Gray, who claims to be a victim. I say claims. If you hear this, Gray, I'm not doubting it. I just have to put a question mark on everything in this world. And we did a podcast. And I finally said, does everyone involved in this program, do they go through torture? He says, yes, everyone. So Annika tells stories that brings podcasters to tears. She says she was in a room with a bunch of these kids. She said she was hungry. The guy leaves the room, comes back, brings a half-rotten carcass, makes them all eat it. That's what brainwashing is. They give her, at some point, a puppy. The first thing in her life, in any way, brings joy. They make her kill it. Right? This is what these psychopaths do to break them. So you get dissociative identity disorder. You fracture the personalities. Then you reassemble them. And here's-- I had an epiphany one day. I was watching a documentary called The Mind of a Dog. It's about working dogs. You breed them. Some of them flunk out. When you finally get them, you say, OK, we got all these dogs. They're not the same. They're not identical. This blob of a Labrador, let's give that to the guy with PTSD. Let's give this real smart one to the blind woman, right? And they pair them up. I think they do that with MKUltra. So I think Born Identity, for example, is a documentary. Let's go there. I think Hollywood seems to fictionalize reality to me. Eyes wide shut. They make these stories. The Kubrick thing was a real interesting discussion you did where Vivian said, no, they didn't cut pieces. That's not relevant to me because, as you said, it's a twisted plot, even if they didn't. That's right. I actually, I genuinely don't think it, go watch it five times. I genuinely don't think it matters that much. It doesn't matter. I think he really got it. It doesn't matter. I think he got it. The message still comes through. So if MKUltra's pervasive, then, so now we could play a game. This is like a family feud. You know, you stand up there and you got the buzzer and you hit it and he says, you know, name someone who's MKUltra. Now, here's what I'll tell you. I think I can spot them. Not all of them, obviously, but there are certain personality traits that really jump out at me. So if you watch them, one of them's a very flat personality. There's a kind of a flatness. You're trying to recover from having your brain fried. You're not exactly going to be perky. Right. Right? I watched a woman giving a TED talk on why pedophilia is a choice. Right. What is TED doing? But I watched it and I realized, I go, she's been trafficked. Look at her. She's been trafficked. Right. So then one day- Wait a second. So you saw that. Someone giving- A TED talk on- Right. Yeah, they're trying to downgrade pedophilia to preference. Yes. I knew you'd like that story. Here's a question I like to ask people. 350,000 kids disappeared coming over the border. Right? Mainstream media doesn't even question that number. They cite it. Have you ever heard mainstream media say, where the fuck they go? Nope, but we've done it on this show. Right. And I do it on podcasts. It's horrible. Now, I do not believe there's enough pervs in the world to consume 350 kids, 350,000 kids a year. If you look at official stats globally, it's like a million, five million. It's all over the place because they're very hard to measure. You go, you know what it's called when there's a situation where a hull's breaking loose and the kids are sitting ducks? It's called harvest season. Where's harvest season? Well, let's start with Ukraine. There's over a million kids. There's more than a million kids missing fathers. Jesus Christ. East Block. You talk to Nick Bryant about this. East Block is wildly active for trafficking. And they don't grab kids off the street in Hoboken. It's not worth it because the whole community would rise up and try to solve the problem. They just go to some guy. So I'm on a podcast. My name is Tony Schaffer. A Zoom call. It's the same Zoom group. Senator Ron Johnson, all the anti-vaxxers, Bobby Kennedy, you name it, they were on it. And Tony Schaffer's an Army, former Army. Search Tony Schaffer, you'll find S-H-A-F-F-E-R. It's T-S Spooky on Twitter. And he is everywhere. He is everywhere. He is one of these guys where you see pictures of him with rums to all these guys, right? He is proximate. Yeah, that's the guy right there. Oh, he looks spooky. He's not a, no, he's a good guy. He's a good guy? He's not a colonel. He starts the Zoom call saying, I'm not a colonel, they just gave me that rank. And so at the end of his Zoom call, I said, Tony, I'm interested in the role of trafficking in geopolitics. Why? No one would do that for fun because I've been trying to explain what Brett called, Brett called the gravitational force. Why are politicians making decisions that just don't make sense? Yeah, why? And I figured it's gotta be, there's something hanging over him. And I got onto this theme and I couldn't get off it. So Tony Schaffer's on there. I said, Tony, I'm interested in the role of trafficking in geopolitics. He starts talking about Epstein. I should have let him keep talking. I thought I understood Epstein. He might've told him, that was some shit I didn't understand. When was this? This was probably. 2022? Two years ago. It was after Epstein died, yeah. Okay. Probably around there, maybe 2023, four. I don't know. And I, after he talks a little bit about Epstein, I said, we kind of have a beat on him, although we didn't. I think he, the trafficking and the kids were a smaller percentage of his world. Oh, he did a lot. He did a lot of other shit. I saw that too, yeah. But I'm not sure he's dead, by the way. Neither am I. Do you know the funniest conspiracy, don't let me get distracted from Tony, the funniest conspiracy theory of them all? Funniest? The funniest. This is the funniest. What's the funniest? So you look at Epstein's profile and the gurney, the dead guy. The ear? The ear, the nose, especially, right? So it's not him. It looks like a substitute. And someone points out, see this guy in the Mets cap right there? And there's a guy sitting in a Mets cap in a game. And you go, that could be him, couldn't it? He died two weeks earlier. And there wasn't a lot of explanation what happened. No fanfare or anything. Hillary's brother. Come on. Yeah, search Hillary's brother. He died a couple of weeks before Epstein. And I'm sitting there going, okay, low probability. But I'm peeing in my pants every time I think of this. This is funny. So you're sitting there, you're a sp-- And you're right there on the left. Yeah, Tony Rodham. Right there on the left. So you're at Langland, you go, we need to get him. We need to get a car 'cause it looks like Epstein. And you see that and you go, oh, we have got to do this. Oh, we are gonna be on the hall of shame after we-- Right, you know it. You go, we have got to do this one, right? Oh, that's the place they had to look. Guy right next to Hillary. They couldn't find a dead homeless guy. Tony Rodham Clinton and Epstein, just to get-- Oh, boy. Right there, the middle, right in the middle. Others have, I didn't think of this myself. Oh, that's wild. That's funny, isn't it? That's pretty fucking funny. That's really funny. So I wrote, I wrote, I said I just peed myself. So Tony Schaffer, so I said, okay, let me ask you a simple question. I was testing him 'cause I knew the answer. Does the Clinton Foundation traffic children? He said, oh, absolutely. I was with Taibbi for dinner one night and I started to tell a story. And as I said, does the Clinton Foundation traffic children? His eyes rolled back in his head, like, oh, Jesus. And then I said, absolutely. He goes, he looks right, holy shit. Matt Taibbi? Yeah, and-- He had some pretty cold takes on the Epstein stuff. He was like doing content with that fucking retard. What's his name? Doesn't even matter. I'm not gonna give the guy-- So the Clinton Foundation was all over Haiti. Clinton Foundation members were getting thrown in jail. They were having to bail them out. Laura Sills, search Laura Sillsby. Laura Sillsby. Laura Sillsby. She several times got thrown in jail for trafficking in Haiti. And she-- She got thrown in jail in Haiti? Yeah. It's hard to do. Yeah. Laura Sillsby, the New Life Children's Refuge case was an incident of an alleged kidnapping in the ensuing legal cases which occurred in the aftermath of the Haiti earthquake in 2010. Right, harvest season. We call it harvest season. Let me read that. It says, for people, this is interesting. On January 29, 2010, a group of 10 American Baptist missionaries from Idaho attempted to cross the Haiti-Dominican Republic border with 33 Haitian children. 33? Damn it. The group known as the New Life Children's Refuge did not have proper authorization for transporting the children and were arrested on kidnapping charges. Missionaries denied any wrongdoing and claimed that they were rescuing orphans and leading them to the Dominican hotel, which was being transformed into an orphanage. Nine of the 10 missionaries were later released by the NLCR founder, Laura Sillsby. She remained-- she was the one that remained incarcerated in Haiti. By the time she went on trial on May 13, the charges had been reduced to, quote, "arranging irregular travel," unquote. And the prosecution sought a six-month prison term. On May 17, she was found guilty and sentenced to the time served in jail prior to the trial. So can we Google Laura Sillsby and get more info on her? She does not have a Wiki page. So she was involved with the foundation. So Laura Sillsby gets married, changes her name. I can't remember what her new name is. What does she do now? She's high ranking, possibly running-- I can't remember-- Amber Alert. No fucking way. Yes way. No fucking way. Yes way. This stuff goes on and on and on. That is fucking-- you know-- a movie I think about more and more for the symbolism that I thought had crazy symbolism when I watched it years ago and didn't think about any of this stuff. But a movie that I think I missed the irony of was "Usual Suspects." I'm not sure I remember that. So that's the one where-- spoiler alert right here-- where Kevin Spacey plays-- Oh, speaking of degenerate. But just ignore that for a second. He plays a cripple, and he's in the movie. He's in the middle of all these criminals who are doing all these crimes for this guy, Kaiser Soze, who no one and he's all powerful. And the whole movie is Chaz Palminteri as a detective sitting here with this cripple in his office and interrogating him about the things he witnessed when he was around all these other criminals. And he's like, all right, get out of here. And then he realizes that's Kaiser Soze. And the movie ends with Kevin Spacey's feet walking like a cripple and then slowly normalizing. And he walks away smoking a cigarette because he was hiding in plain sight. And it's like, I'm gone. And what the older I get, the more I realize most evil does. Most is a strong word. A lot of evil hides directly in plain fucking sight. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You're still trying to find it. Well, she changed her name. Oh, she changed her name. Yeah, yeah. Since her release from detention in Haiti, Laura has returned to Idaho in 2015. She married and took the name Gaylor. Silsby is currently employed by software company AlertSense as their vice president of marketing. AlertSense works with the federal government on FEMA's integrated public alert and warning system. One of IPAW's functions is to issue AMBER alerts during kidnapping. If you want to find pedophiles, you find organizations that are charged with taking care of children. I think they have infiltrated them all. I think you're right. So the number of kids that are missing every year is a number that's so enormous and so amorphous because you don't actually know which number is right. But it's somewhere between mid-six digits to mid-single-digit millions. Six-digit hundred-thousands to millions. I don't think there's that many pervs. I don't think these kids are locked in basements. I think they're being consumed. Consumed? Well, there appear to be cannibalistic people. Yeah, there's some for sure. Right? Satanic cannibals are known. Jerky, right? The jerky story, which came out of nowhere. I don't know anyone who knew about the word "jerky" until Epstein. As someone who has obsessively looked at this case for, at that point, it had been about, it was six and a half years by that point, because I really started looking at it when he told me about it. It was six and a half years. It was six and a half years by that point, because I really started looking at it when he told me about it. point because i really started looking at it when he died like heavy right i will tell you as dark as i already thought it was and i thought it was dark as fuck the emails opened up an extra door of things that are at least possibly true that's right that made me go what in the ever living fuck is going on so here's where brett tells something very important and that is he he basically says you can't dismiss something yes right yes you can't so so you now have a hypothesis and the question is you have to dismiss it for other theories to hold up for for a theory to hold up so so um so so i i at one point it was claimed that nine shootings in a row are transgender that's not possible you i'll tell you what's not possible january 6th ai says there were about 6 to 80 cops on duty right it was really understaffed there's the guy who was said to be killed by virtue of the crowd that's not true the family said no he didn't get killed by the crowd but it is mysterious he went home that night and then died that's kind of weird yeah right he is 45 cops are generally pretty tough yeah four more committed suicide five out of 60 are dead i don't need any theory or any hypothesis to know that that number's wrong and people say wow it was really traumatic i go traumatic traumatic going into a trailer park and breaking up a fight that crowd was the most cop friendly crowd ever assembled now they got into scuffles but those guys were all pro-cop there were so many people in that crowd who would have protected a cop if tempers weren't flaring right i admit tempers flare but that can happen between friends right yeah um my friend my friend brandon buckingham was there as a journalist that day just at like the rally right you know not taking a side or anything just like they're capturing for youtube and when i had when i had brandon here two and a half years ago it came up on the podcast because he released a video on it and everything he never went into the capital or anything like that but he was like right there and you know i there there were thoughts on it that i'm like well you know why the fuck are people there this that and the stuff he saw and that really made me step back and be like all right let's let's get a little humble on this maybe some i i'd seen sketchy things i'd seen like the cops just open up the gates and stuff like that like there was stuff that stuff definitely like hey this wouldn't be the worst thing to happen well also the fact they did that meant the people walking in should have been arrested right that's what that's what that's important yes but beyond that all the other stuff too you even want to get into the podcast and i'm like well i'm not going to get into the podcast the ashley babbitt stuff which in the past it seemed like pretty cut and dry to me not i started yeah i started going you know maybe i don't fucking know that's right and you and that's the thing like you don't want to default to automatically being the opposite on stuff i'm very careful with that i follow evidence but when new evidence comes up on things or evidence that i looked at previously where i was only shown this and not the full picture you have to be it doesn't matter if you're sitting in my seat or whatever you like if you're anybody and you talk about these things with your friends or whatever you got to be willing to be like all right maybe maybe that's not what i thought and just step back and let more things come out and that's one of those where more comes out just passively observe yeah and then and then sometimes the plot just naturally thickens and and sometimes it doesn't and sometimes i don't know what it is that lights me up for example the charlie kirk story has lit me up one of the reasons is is because it is either kyler robinson plain and simple lone gunman crazy kid with that 10 000 mile stare yeah that's the same 10 000 mile stare as other people that you see um or it's a very complicated uh uh conspiracy very complicated the feds have been lying the state governor was lying the israelis are probably lying you know it gets it gets very complicated and it gets very complicated and it gets very complicated and that to me seems really important when you start whacking important people in our country yeah and so that's why that's important to me the guys here here's their there's a rorschach test for twitter when i see someone i think you can look at the tyler robinson case and think he did it i don't have a problem with that i don't think it's possible to look at it and not see that that is on thin ice i don't think it's possible to look at the oh i agree with you it's on now when you see the person come out and say overwhelming evidence he did it that person in my opinion is lying i agree now that tells you who are who are getting the memo and one thing that troubled me so one day on twitter megan kelly showed up right i don't know if you get this effect but every once in a while you get one you go oh that's bingo right i just won twitter bingo megan kelly right that's general when she followed you general flynn right oh that's twitter bingo right you know so uh so so once i get followed by someone and you go holy fuck i did not see that one coming right and she showed up and i'm saying this is great and then and she was calling spade a spade on some stuff and i'll tell you the one thing she did do she did a tremendously bad cover-up of james aliphantis about some number of years ago james aliphantis is pizza boy and it was totally designed to try to shut down that narrative and it was so obvious to me james aliphantis is a very dark and sketchy guy i think pizza is very real you do yes i do and uh and you know the guy who supposedly shot up the place hit one hard drive then he turns he's dead though oh what are the odds um just tie up the loose ends aliphantis had a had a had a was it i don't know anything else he was jimmy comet and there's all these pictures and they're sick fucking pictures how does that as a scientist looking at and it's not like this is your area of expertise but how does a human being become interested in that i think the psychopaths are probably pretty genetic you think it's i think what is that so hold on a second what is that because if it's genetic obviously like very bad we can go through everything that is but what about that then it's correlated with with with infants it's coming up like 20 different ways it depends on what is that okay he's gonna keep trying what how is that those all objectively bad things associated with those correlated with something like being being attracted to children um i can't remember someone recently said it pretty well um that's interesting eric weinstein at it without providing details but i think you get to a point where you can bang any chick you want you can buy anything you want you can do anything you want we all need neurotransmitters we all need something that lights our brain up and when the normal things are no longer capable of doing it i think you start digging deeper i have an acquaintance who who ran a an addiction clinic and he said he said he thought that addiction correlated well with deficient neurotransmitters so that you're going for the the neurotransmitters with the drugs the people who are really prone to addiction yeah and i think people are very prone to addiction others are not we can all become junkies but um but i i i don't think uh i think there's tremendous different response to my wife has been on killer painkillers 30 years she can not take them she can not she can just not take them she can just not take them she never uses a prescription up completely for 30 years hydromorphone things like that do you mind me asking why she's oh she's had many many surgeries she had a bad accident she was 15 she has terrible health problems and and so she doesn't have an addictive personality so let's let's talk about the health care system yeah she probably i hope she doesn't watch this i'm mad at me um they put her because of pain management i mean she had her spine fused her neck fused broken bones i won't tell you the number of surgeries online but oh i did it online clip that um yeah we'll just switch the camera to me um i'm about to have a hip replacement um and um they put her on effexor 25 years ago high dose because there's some evidence that it helps pain management she has a morphine pump embedded in her abdomen goes straight to her spine um what no one told her is you can't get off of effexor you're better off there i don't want you want to say the drug because we know it gets bleeped um heroin you'd be better off being on heroin i guarantee you'd be better off being on heroin and so she also has this thing about her that i don't want to talk about because i don't want to talk about her but i don't want to talk about her because i don't want to talk about her she can start vomiting for no reason i actually think it's a seizure i finally figured that out after about 20 years it was episodic a couple of months um and and um when that would happen she couldn't take her effexor and that was posing problems so she said i want to get off the effexor we read the standard protocol and they tell you to taper off it if you follow the standard program call you will never get off it there is not a snowball's chance in hell you'll get off it and then um then i started digging deeper you want to find out about a drug you don't ask mayo clinic you don't ask any of those you find the consumer so one i have this recommendation go if you ever take a new drug go on twitter and search the drug name start reading tweets you will find the consumers if you search effexor you will find lives ruined so you will find people who said i spent a year getting off the effexor i got to the point where i was breaking up in the capsule and counting the little nodules tapering by one little nodule per week so we're down to like half a milligram from 200 milligrams whoa so my wife went off it over eight weeks not knowing complete disaster disaster disaster so that's when i really dug in and i i actually did you know with enough followers i can get a lot of help and you find this awful i had a i was on a zoom call with peter bragan who's a world famous psychologist when i told her she was trying to detox off effexor he grimaced it is the hardest and it reached a point where i found some doctors who were addressing this seriously and and i didn't even tell them this um some percentage of people if they try to go off it and they can't and they really this is not weak will no this is it will not let you go that's right so i i was running into people saying i went off effexor 10 years ago and it's ruined my life 10 years later and and so um he said some people when they go back on it doesn't work so i didn't bother to tell her that because that was our next option so she's 75 put her back on it she came right back but i don't think she would have survived three more months whoa and she's put up with horrible health problems yeah but i don't think she would have survived three more months now yet the health care system created this well part of it's the doctors prescribe it and they have no idea what they're doing that's right right and so i'm not going to tell her that because i'm not going to tell her that and you got a whole generation of boomer doctors who've retired so now you got a bunch of guys who are who were trained formulaically what do you mean formulaically they're told let's go to the statins this is formulaic you get your blood tested your your cholesterol counts too high they put you on statins i knew from years ago that they had shown that high cholesterol did correlate with heart attacks statins did correlate with heart attacks and i'm not going to tell you with lower cholesterol but they had never shown that by stepping on the statins you reduced heart attacks and death they just inferred that critical gap now what people so i went out so so her doctor wanted to put her on statins this is i don't know two months ago this is recent i said she gave her a prescription i said don't take them we're going we were already going to a vein expert because one of the things that triggered the awareness was she was getting her feet hurt and it turned out that she's only getting about 50 percent circulation now one leg the leg has been beaten to shit she's had knee reconstructions and all sorts of stuff so so so we went to it and i said don't touch those statins we go to the expert he said there's no case for statins here your your knees banged up this is why your your circulation sucks and he looks at the data and i said well tell me about the the cholesterol level he said that's stupid so i said okay we're done her doctor still wanted her to go on statins we dumped her on statins and she was like i don't want to go on statins her doctor now quick fix i went on twitter and i said have you or a family member been on statins and what's your experience it's a pretty open-ended question i got about 500 answers i would say 495 of them were don't touch those motherfuckers people talked about huge pain problems lower extremities a friend of mine i've caught with every saturday i've mentioned this story to him he said oh yeah i went on my my hands swelled up and everything it was a horror story probably five people said no problem so but you know we're kind of drawing out the people who are pissed so i did it another way i love twitter polls so i did a twitter poll and i said um help resolve an issue here um has a family member you've been on statins and what is your experience with the statins and then the choices were uh no experience show me the answer basically um no side effects minor side effects major side effects 62 major side effects sample size 2000 the side effects that's evil because the the pain you go well fuck i'm going off the statin because you can correlate it you can say i started taking the statins my fucking hands blew up early onset dementia real fast the reason is your brain you know why you have cholesterol your brain is going to die you're going to die you're going to need cholesterol when they're stepping on your cholesterol this is not a surgical stepping this is this is a this is a body slam stepping you don't know where how it's disrupting your cholesterol function boom i had i had people saying look my wife went on it and she was she was non-functional within six months so the statin story is a nightmare i would never ever go on set now here here's the deal if you were in a family where you know three family members died at 40 from heart attacks and shit like that i say well first of all get some stents and shit right do the surgical drill but i'm willing to consider that one if your cholesterol is sitting at 400 but but because your your cholesterol threshold which by the way has steadily dropped as the critical threshold over the last 30 years started at like 300 went to 250 went to 200 no no no no pretty soon they're telling everyone they need statins because they're psychopaths the doctors don't realize they're buying into and and one day our doctor who i do like said well we we follow protocols and that it just clicked if her cholesterol goes low and goes high the protocol says do it you don't do it you broke from protocol you might get in trouble oh you didn't vaccinate your patient you might get in trouble you might lose your job right they've learned that you don't step out of line it's a group think nightmare it's a group think nightmare do you think that because we, We kind of got off this earlier, but you were talking about how you saw COVID early and what was going on there. And you are, as a chemistry professor, like this is your strength. I just sensed something was wrong with the narrative. Now, here's what happened. I had to give up my job or get faxed. I got faxed. Now, people, oh, that was a cowardly thing to do. I go, you know what cowardly is? The cowardly part is me imagining sitting there with my wife five years later. And they're saying, we should pay for all the grandchildren's college education. And me saying, well, you know, I quit five years ago. And I'm not sure we can, you know, pound out a million five to cover these college educations. Because I had a hunch that a vaccine that ended up saving the world would hurt me. I'm going, I don't want to be in that position either. So I waited to see if people were dying. And they didn't appear to be. I was wrong. They were dying. I read all the Pfizer papers. My doctor Zoomed me five hours a week for weeks and weeks and weeks, hearing the stories about what was happening. Did you talk to some of your people at Pfizer too? No. Oh, I do talk to friends in pharma. And they're kind of siloed. They don't even talk about it at the pharma. They all sit there at lunch talking about it even. That's the interesting. I think it's because they know in their heart, if you start talking about it, you're going to be jobless if you're not careful. That is true. That is so dark, though, the fact that you can't talk about something that should tell you all you need to know. That's right. We can imagine why Pfizer employees talking about the Pfizer vaccine killing people might be a problem, right? You can imagine that. So the bottom line is we all understand now. Now, you can say, that's your Twitter feed. It's 150,000 people, right? And most of them are there because I shit on the Fed and things like that. So people are getting it. You know, you ask about 9-11. They're getting it. I'm not sure they'd all vote for dancing Israelis, but they're getting it. Now, here's one I want to take to you. Take it to the hoop, buddy. Do you say this stuff in faculty meetings? No. I was going to say. My colleagues don't want to hear it. When I got off Tucker, I was telling colleagues the shit he said off camera. Oh, yeah? And I wasn't going to say it. I wasn't going to say anything, but he actually had a couple of podcasts afterwards that kind of put it officially on camera. Somehow, I tweaked him with a satanic tweak, where I poked him and said something about satanic. To your colleagues? No, to Tucker. To Tucker. Okay. And he went off. He says, oh, my God. He was way worse than me. And he goes, oh, my God. And they're everyone. He says, I know these people. I know them, he said. And so Tucker and I had this great conversation. And his staff was sitting there. Bug-eyed. They had never heard this shit before. Right? And so it was amazing, actually. So I'm telling my colleagues this. And they were laughing at me. And they're going, so that was when he was off his meds. And I said, so let me see if I got this right. You think you understand how the world works better than Tucker Carlson? Sitting in a building in Ithaca, New York. You had a better view of the world than Tucker Carlson. It's out there on the map. Yeah. Yeah. So. We just went. Thief and I just went up there to Talladega Falls. Right. It's a very beautiful place. Teganic Falls. Teganic Falls. Teganic Falls is amazing. Yeah, no. It's beautiful. It is beautiful. It's out there. You know what I mean? You're not necessarily in the thick of it. I'm going to hit Julian right in the bread basket. OK. Lindsey Clancy. I totally have no problems with any of your views. I have a little problem with it. But Brett did a kind of an interesting thing. He said, let's say he was with Chris Martinson doing a podcast. We like it. I don't remember the host. He said, let's say the host slips me a drug and I am fried. And I look at you and you look like a polar bear coming at me and I kill you. How guilty am I? It's kind of an interesting thought experiment. It's an interesting thought experiment. Right. So, Lindsey Clancy. It goes deeper than the things you talk about. You might know about it, but it goes deeper. So, I'm looking at Lindsey Clancy. I see that the 10-mile stare. It doesn't help her that she has permanent bitch face. I don't think she always does, but all the photos of her do. And you showed that video where she's just staring at the jury and staring and staring and staring. Right. I mean, that looks like evil incarnate. It does. And then one day. So, my first visceral response was, forget about what you do with her. She killed her three kids. She threw herself out a window. Insanity is a pretty easy sell, right? And it doesn't solve the problem of what you do with her. Here's a question I have for you. What was the best outcome for her legally? Let's start with that one. So, she could have been acquitted on all counts. Never going to happen. Well, not by the time it went to trial. That's right. It was just going to be one or the other. So, it was either going to be guilty or acquitted. Acquitted by virtue of insanity. Or. Well, it was either going to be guilty, go to prison, or not guilty by reason of insanity. Or a hung jury. Go to mental hospital. Or a hung jury. Or a hung jury. Now, I did a little digging. Turns out it's a pretty clear path to go from guilty by virtue of insanity straight to an insane asylum. Mm-hmm. What happens with a hung jury? I don't know. That's a good point, isn't it? Now, there. There is a path, supposedly, that you can then get her to the asylum. But it's possible her best outcome was not guilty by virtue of insanity, but the hung jury. Now, you're a prosecutor. You just lost 11 to 1. Yeah. You going to prosecute that again? They're going to have to. They're going to have to do something. And also, like. It's just true. Now, let me tell you some things that. Let me tell you some new prosecutors on it, because those are some fucking damp-ass rags prosecutors. Well, let me tell you some of the things that make my blink moment. Okay. Her husband started dating his now wife within a year. Mm-hmm. And I'm sitting there going, okay, let's say he could somehow pull it off. She's not exactly fishing in the right end of the gene pool. Some guy who just had his three kids go, you're really taking on a big fucking job if you take on that guy. Women love to fix men. I always say men fix car, women fix men. Yeah, women love to fix men. But still, it's swirling in my head. There's a woman I want to give her credit, although I'm not sure it's original to her, because I did some Twitter searching and found similar stories, who did a blog. A woman named Morgan C000. Boot that up. I'm going to show you some cool stuff. Okay. This doesn't in any way resolve the question of whether she should be locked up for the rest of her life. This is more of a what's-under. Underneath the surface of this story. Why can't I see our screen? It's on. Okay. Now, go to the attached tweet. There's your blog. Now, right below it, the attached tweet. I agree with the idea right there, the psyop. Oh, right there. No, no, you had it. You had it. You had it. I think you had it. Keep going down now. Go down where there's a blonde chick. Keep going all the way down. There's a blonde chick who's testifying. Keep going down. Keep going down. That chick. Okay, go back. Go down. I think you got to go down. Keep going. There's a video of her. Right there. Yeah, yeah. Right there. Right there. Click the video and play a few seconds of it. Okay. All right, we'll do this. This is a chaplain. Met with her 200 times. With Lindsay. Talks about how nice she is. Okay. The tool had been removed. She was able to communicate, and that was on January 31st. I believe she was extubated the weekend. It was the weekend of the 28th, but I didn't work that weekend, so I saw her on Tuesday the 31st. Yeah, I saw her this late. Have you seen this? Yeah, keep going. Tell the jurors what you observed and what, if any, conversation you had with Lindsay on the 31st. And let me ask you, how long had it been that they removed the tool? So I think that's enough. Perhaps a day or two. She talked to her 200 times. She talks about how she said her children were safe with God just to make her feel better. How she was grieving, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What is her training? You know what her training is? It's unbelievable. She has a MBA from Columbia. She has another graduate degree from Yale. She's a senior VP at Fidelity. And she's Lindsay Clancy's chaplain. Now, now go up. Go up and you'll see an old man testifying. You'll see a picture of an old man. Keep going, keep going, keep going. That guy. That guy was the defense's witness talking about her insanity. Now go down. Who's that guy? There he is with Oliver North. Old General Ollie. Iran-Contra Ollie. So keep going, keep going. I mean, her resume is amazing. It turns out that following this case, there's all sorts of companies being started up. within the medical system that Lindsay was involved in. creating software to detect problems with pregnant women. Oh, Jesus Christ. And it's all interconnected and it has Fidelity connected and it has all, and there's so many people interconnected. You know what, Oliver, you're not going to, you're going to love this. Oliver North's mother's maiden name was Clancy. I have no idea if that's, it has nothing to do with anything, but you just go boom, right? It's funny, yeah. So then there's donors and they're donors from medical groups. And keep going, keep going, keep going. There's, there's, there's, keep going. The whole thing is definitely some sort of psyop for sure. Right. And all these hospitals all have a stake. They all have a stake. In the creation of this software to protect families and women from postpartum depression and stuff like that. And I'm going, and then it turns out that there's other cases just like it. Woman, three kids. This is the door to Narnia. Yeah, this is, this is the wormhole to another universe. Yes. Yep. I have no arguments. So then you go back to the 10,000 mile stare. So I think it's possible that she was teed up to not be convicted, to not be acquitted, to hang the jury. And you watch the jurors and there's something fake about them too. There's something about the jurors that smells wrong. Well, they're not sending their best. Well, the woman who said, the woman, mind boggling, when the woman, look at that picture, this blogger. When the lady said he just couldn't. She's with wet hair. What the, what the fuck? She couldn't, she couldn't get over that Lindsay viciously killed her kids. Viciously. That was so great the way she said that. What a dumb bitch. How can you say that, right? So. They also found out she was like a true crime junkie and like activist and the whole bit. So how much would you be willing to, what odds would you take that Lindsay Clancy was MKUltra? It's not impossible. It's not impossible. That's why I asked how broadly based it is. Yeah. I, I just think, you know. That doesn't get her off the hook. It was, and, and also to say nothing of this whole thing about the funding and what they're going to use it for. It was also a sigh up, a distraction in society for sure. I hated that we had to talk about it. You know, it, we, we did, there were two episodes in a row on our weekend episodes where we really had to cover it. But we have to know what's happening to us. And, and that that's, that's what I'm saying. Like the second one, I did it at the 57 minute mark and, and the, and that was very deliberate, like Deef and I had it. Ready to go to like go through and I'm like, we're going to hold off on doing that and cover the important stuff first because that's part of what they want. They want to piss people off. It, it blew my mind. Like it's never enough for people. That's, that's my big thing. And that's the thing I'm constantly watching on. I can sit here and say so many of the narratives we're given are lies. And I think I'm factually backed by a ton of that. What I don't want to do is then automatically assume every single thing I ever see before I review any evidence. Is a hundred percent a lie. That's why I called it a bias for MK ultra. Exactly. So, you know, that's what blew my mind about this case. How much there were these like women who I felt like when I looked at the patterns are just people that don't have enough going on in their lives. It wasn't enough for them. They could be a tee up though too. Exactly. It wasn't enough for them that like, you know, there were some bad things that happened to her, which I agree with. It had to be, oh no, her husband actually fucking did it. Did you see the black chick? Who said we have to remember there's black women in prison for killing their children. On Oprah, dude. And she was like, I just want to have this same energy. I'm like, what the fuck is going on in that household? I think we're being played. I think we're totally being played. It's just. So you didn't let on to that. Let on to what? When you were ranting about Lindsay Clancy should be sent away forever. Right. And I understood that. What do you mean? I didn't let on to what? You didn't let on to the. You didn't. You didn't. You didn't. You didn't let on to the fact that this, that this, this story, that you knew this story had sketchiness. Oh no. I said that very blatantly. Okay. We talked about it. Yeah. I was very clear. I might have missed that podcast. No, no, no. There's, there's some, cause there's some people like that then took that out of context. One thing that I am extremely, extremely fucking on the mark about as much as I can is like always giving the context of what I'm thinking while I'm actually getting to the thing we're thinking now. Who is playing you? Exactly. And I, and, and. And I said that I'm like, this is why it's a distraction. This is what it is. And by the way, I, I have this amazing superpower. I don't know if you're aware of this. It's like incredible. You have several. It makes me Batman, but I can, in the year 2026, I can hold two thoughts at the same time. That's a fucking superpower because apparently no one can fucking do that anymore. I say that totally. Aristotle said an educated man can entertain a thought without endorsing it. I mean, holy shit. And people. People on this one, their brains were broken. And that's why it was so fascinating to me. But there's no doubt. It's like, you know, we're talking about this instead of Leon Black suing Congress. I know. Because that's what was happening the same day. You know why I don't care about that? Why don't you care about that? Because nothing's going to happen. I hate that you're right. Nothing's going to happen. You're absolutely right. It's still fuck you, Leon. You know when the last guy, important guy went to prison for anything? Who was that? Can you think of who the last guy went to prison for anything? Like important? Big guy. A big guy. Important guy. Yeah, I'm sure I could think of people, but. Bernie Madoff's a good guess. He might have been considered expendable. That's what I'm saying. Anyone that does. Danny Hastert for diddling children, Speaker of the House. Yeah, expendable. But he only went away for about five months. Doesn't matter. He still went away, but he's expendable. Right. Right. Yeah, I totally agree. It's the people that are expendable. And a lot of the evil that exists among elites and stuff like that are people whose names we don't even fucking know. Also, the people. The people up there who are not themselves inherently evil are tolerating it. Yeah, 100%. They gotta all know. They gotta all know. This is what I'd love to know from someone like you who looks at things so deeply and asks questions on all of it. And you're also not 20. I'm told. You've seen a lot of shit. Right. What do you think all the symbolism is? How deep and far back does it go? Because I find myself wondering. I'm wondering about secret societies, about ancient things that are passed down in an evil way. Yeah, Moloch. How deep does it go? Here's one deep. Look up London Olympics opening ceremony. 2012? 2012. You seen that? It's been a while. It's satanic. It is? The opening ceremony is all Satan. The whole thing's Satan. In 2012? In 2012. The London Olympics. What about? I don't remember. It's kids in beds in the infield. And demons haunting them. And this big, gigantic demon hanging over them. Look. What the fuck? Yeah. You should. I've got some videos on that one that are extraordinary. And you go, what the fuck are you doing? Do we have a video? Can we get a video of this on YouTube, Deef? Yeah. I just try to find it. Yeah, Deef will get it. He found the images. And they haunt the kids. The kids are in bed in their pajamas. It's so strange. Where does that come from? Who thinks that's a good ceremony? But where does that come from? Same guy who thought that having a tranny do a Gillette ad probably. Where does that come from, though, Dave? Like, is that a couple? Put some demons in there. Dave, Dave. Is that a couple people who. Can't be just a couple. No, no, no. But I'm saying, does it start with a couple people who have a lot of power and say, oh, you should go take a look at this, to someone else who goes. Like Robert Kraft or someone? Yes, man. Yeah, yeah. Right. Is that how it happens? There we go. Voldemort at the Olympics. This is in 2012. Yeah, that's a great opening ceremony for an Olympics, isn't it? And there's a little child in a bed. Holy shit. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's really great. What the fuck is that? And there's also micro-demons, people-sized demons running around haunting them, too. What the fuck? And there's nurses sitting there doing this. Watch this. There's nurses sitting there doing this. Acting like robots. It's just. It's so surreal. And then you look at the opening ceremony from the last Olympics where they had. In 2024. Oh, God. Yeah, it was hilarious. I covered it at the time. Oh, God. And some guy's got his dick hanging out and stuff. I mean, it's just crazy. But that's what I'm saying. How far back does this go? Well, so I think I've got an acquaintance who sends me shit from Belgium. I think some of it goes back centuries. I find my hunch is that if you dig back there, you'll lose any audience you want to have. And if you. If you do this and you want to tell people this exists, you don't want to lose your audience. So I think the further back you go, the more people can just say, that's the olden days. And so I think you have to stay focused more on the present. But for example, I think the royal families grew up. King Charles had four major mentors. And one was Lord Mountbatten, who's a total pedophile. He's a pedophile, yeah. And then there's two others. I can't remember their name. And then there's Jimmy Savile. Jimmy Savile, who's good friends with him. And Jimmy Savile was the most famous pedophile in Europe's history. You ever. I assume you've seen the documentary on Netflix. I'm sure. I have. I'm sure I have. If you out there listening right now have not seen that, go watch that. That's right. It's fucking insane. Right. So everyone knew he was a pedophile. He was a pedophile to the stars. There's pictures of him and King Charles all over the place. You know he stuck it up King Charles' ass when King Charles was young. You know he did. You know Mountbatten did. And then you wonder about Prince William and Prince Harry and. Right? And so I think the royal families. Have you ever seen the video of the kid trying to escape from. Buckingham Palace by tying sheets together and he falls to his death no yeah that's an amazing one don't put on the screen but maybe let's get that don't put on the screen yeah well we can watch it but we won't put it on the screen for other people because that'll get us nuked but if that video exists what the fuck so i think the entire royal family's host i think they probably have webbed feet and you know i think they're probably just inbred beyond belief um well that's that's probably genetically backed yeah yeah and so i i think europe has a worse problem than us because europe has bloodlines to call so i was on a zoom call with archbishop carlo maria vagano wait oh no i'm thinking someone's it's not coming the viral video of someone escaping buggy ham house is a hoax and does not show a child falling to his death this is from google the clip was created in 2015 as a viral marketing stunt for the l network scripted drama series the royals where the video just picks an adult man not a climbing out of a window using a bed sheet before fuck naked falling social media posted repeatedly shared the old promotional that's one of those things maybe find it you can decide whether that looked like an adult to you yeah decide for yourself um that's what google ai what's a naked adult doing climbing out the window right yeah um oh deep got it yeah so we're not showing it on screen for obvious reasons that oh that's interesting could be i guess could be but it's weird it's weird he supposedly died it's weird so the bloodlines in europe i think are a big problem the bloodlines are a problem i think that you lose your audience when you start digging into that stuff because because the further but it's like talking about the mayans no one cares right okay they ripped hearts out and ate them and whatever right um if if we're to name back to mk ultra such a good like sunday podcast after yeah i know i know the lord a bolt of lighting yeah yeah you're um like waking me up from a stupor um there's a woman named elizabeth nixon who was doing a podcast with a friend of mine and the next week i did a podcast and he starts telling me about her podcast he did name is elizabeth nixon n-i-c-k-s-o-n she's in the middle of this podcast starts talking about mk ultra she's she was head of time magazine european division she was big in journalism her mother gets taken up to canada to be brainwashed and my friends tell me this jim kunstler and he's telling me this and i said yeah up to mcgill university he goes how do you know that and i said that's where they did it mcgill university you and cameron the whole enchilada they fried brains up there routinely and she said she took three years off from her work to study mk ultra this lady elizabeth nixon yes took three weeks off from work we had her wikipedia we'll it's on the right side defense sir let's see what cia pedia has to say about her so elizabeth pedia elizabeth nixon well it is you should get sanger in here larry sanger larry sanger he started wikipedia oh wait but the other guy's jimmy wales who runs it now right yeah well larry sanger will tell you how bad it's got okay so elizabeth nixon is a canadian writer and journalist in the late 1980s and early 1990s she was european bureau chief of life magazine in 94 that the all right so let's talk a little bit more about her so elizabeth nixon is a canadian writer and journalist in the late 1980s and early 1990s she was european bureau chief of life magazine in 94 that the all right so there you go in 2012 harper collins published her eco-fascist how radical how radical conservationists are destroying our natural heritage under editor editor adam bellows imprint broadside books and then she wrote a series of papers for the canadian think tank frontier center for public policy detailing the implication of environmental land use in canada and she's also written for the guardian of nature and she's also written for the guardian of nature and harper's magazine the sunday she's bigly yeah she's bigly right so far i'm passing the test on your fact check here this is going pretty well well that's the cia's fact too so that's like a double layer yeah i could but they could be lying to us let's start with that that is true so so she starts talking about how her mother was brainwashed one by the way i have a close friend whose grandfather disappeared for two years came back scramble brain he thinks they got him so grandfather his my friend's grandfather okay got taken away disappeared and came back two years later without explanation completely out interesting so uh she starts talking about it and then she starts talking and i was on this one i was watching this one going i think there's a story here she says the person who has all the traits is kamala harris manchurian candidate they didn't do a very good job on her well but what what i was picking up from what other people were saying but i started thinking about i go you know she seems very playful but she could be personality switching so dissociative identity disorder they break into like 10 personalities they then reassemble them into something they can use what's critical is you're talking to def not knowing that there's nine other guys in that skull of his and def does not know they're there he doesn't know they're there he isn't deep he's deep that's right but the other nine yeah and this is darnell thomas this is this is not just a podcast it's not a documentary have you met darnell thomas you haven't met darnell deep's got like 99 other ones up there and so so i did a zoom call with kathy o'brien and juliet angle and kath juliet angle was became a doctor they don't want dumb people they don't need stupid people they're of no value you need smart people julian angle was a doctor had no memories of her childhood none and then they started to pop back now kathy talks about how you s the brainwashing starts kind of wearing off like you know the brainwashing starts kind of wearing off like the pavlovian response stops working they off they often off you when you get to that stage you're no longer useful so kathy was supposed to be offed her claim is that a guy named palmer rescued her they couldn't get the rest of her family out of the system kathy's been given talks on this for 30 years where did you rescue her from the the program now as nick will tell you nick bryant their facts are not always very good because they had to retrieve them from the depths right so you can't judge them if they get wrong and if they're a little crazy and stuff like that you really have to use other criteria kathy's uh julia said she started getting ideas back now kathy said she got rescued by the cia guy and it sounds like a romance which is a little weird and when i read the book i remember thinking the guy wrote palmer wrote the first two chapters from his perspective then kathy wrote the rest or narrated the rest was audiobook and in the end it kind of just ended it was oddly no conclusion i it was something that seemed wrong to me and now i don't want to question kathy and this actually doesn't question her questions palmer i run across this 2002 blog that says he didn't rescue her he's her new handler and i i go could be what am i supposed to do with that but it doesn't negate her claims of what happened to her but she's just been reassigned so she was controlled she was they tend to be owned the vic there's a woman named emma preneur on twitter who interviews survivors yeah i'm familiar with emma yeah i often ask emma for help on something so one day i'm watching this i'm really just this is schizophrenia in its own form i'm watching um let's talk about who i think is the best can the best candidate period bar none for having had her brain scrambled erica kirk she is she's got nothing going on up there that makes any sense to me she can't show emotion yeah she can't show much she's never cried she she she she can't keep the facts straight but don't forget if if different personalities are talking they're not going to know the facts of the other personalities and stuff like that um and and you got this whole traces back to romania and orphanages and child traffic and stuff these stories are wild now she showed up in some documentaries that like yeah cia documentary her mother's deep state all the way things like that there's this weird story of another woman named kirk kirk named kirk who looks just like her from a generation back who is a wife of a and you go what is going on here this is one of these things where you i have no idea what to do with anything like that so in any event um someone when she gave the speech in the memorial service which she she switches so quickly she went from suffering to serious to suffering to serious you know she wiped a tear from her face eight times they were all on the left side yeah and they weren't they weren't real tears she's i shot a picture of nixon on twitter when his wife died i go that's what grief looks like nixon looks like he is just dying yes yeah and you're sitting there and you're you're in a memorial service for your lost husband you got kids at home which by the way i'm not convinced that's true i am not convinced she has kids you ever seen a picture of her kids boot up erica kirk's kids i've seen it where their faces are now paparazzi no one catches them going through an airport or anything no one yeah the pictures are always the kids are turned they were turned around like that yeah that's ai that's ai yeah they're trying to deal with the kids faces missing thing and one of the reasons do that it's because if the kids are a prop and by the way where are they while she's running around doing this shit right yeah she's been i i mean i i was i mean she's whacked out of her mind yeah i waited a long time out of respect for the process to see if something would change to say anything on that but i mean i've told the story now a lot publicly danny jones will attest to it i was on to her the first time she came out two days after he died and went to do that live stream and it's what you said your eyes sometimes are just like i will not let this deceive me that's not and you're baron coleman morgan podcast was phenomenal thank you well and we talked about in our podcast where it was like a do-over too in the sense that uh morgan needed a better setup to do it right so he kind of walked into a mess he didn't realize was a mess well yeah and and that was totally my fault because the first podcast i did with him i'm not a fucking expert on the case at all and he looks at 100 150 cases at a time so there were like one or two details that like he didn't have the full context on and then no one listened to a goddamn thing he said after that so i felt it was the non-forensic statements that he made like they have videos of of of him you know walking he just assumed they were valid right and that got him on a shit list so fast yeah yes so it was way better i watched you show signs of realizing that that this had gone bad yeah because because it was my fault for i quit watching and then i went back after baron said this guy's great i said okay now i'll go back and watch the whole thing and he got better and he got better yeah yeah yeah you retrieved it you retrieved it but when they came in here together that was the most perfect podcast i've ever been a part oh it's phenomenal i mean they they although your joe kent podcast was phenomenal too thank you and i'll tell you what was phenomenal about joe kent was not joe kent was you i don't think i think the only guy who could have stayed with joe kent is scott horton and you stayed with joe kent joe kent's talking about all over the middle east and you're right with him the whole way and you're going he's going ah we went into who the who the fuck cares to stay in and you go you mean right over here and you you are with him the whole way and i'm going i'm going this is like this is like uh julian here is like scott horton's without the anger oh that's funny and so that's what impressed me about that one thank you so um you know what was funny though about that morgan coleman podcast so that was before the youtube view counts also changed so now they're up a little bit but even before that like they it it got to a million views really yeah what's your highest view count i three point something on it on a full on a full episode but i expected when we finished that podcast i knew it was perfect and i knew that they had both nailed it and i expected that thing to have the shit clipped out of it i expected it was the first time i get filtered right it was the first time i ever had this expectation about i've never expected shit from podcasts but i'm like all the biggest shows in the world are going to be playing these clips going through this i'm like whoa this is gonna go crazy nobody nothing nobody and so i talked to it doesn't fit the narrative i talked to brett about that and he said that's how you know you did a perfect podcast that's exactly right there's nothing that anyone can fucking go through and be like this is just totally off and totally wrong like there's something very that is now the sketchiest aftermath i've ever so if you look at well i'm not if you look at tyler robinson he's got the 10 000 mile stare oh yeah so tyler robinson this mk ultra obsession of mine looks like an mk ultra victim set up to take the hit he's got the physical appearances he's got the distance stare this can't go to court now i happen to meet up with jonathan turley you should have jonathan turley but you won't get him because he's real hard to get is my guess but if you can you should get him he's brilliant he comes to cornell first thing that's known it's may or april to give a talk now he is absolute supreme court level constitutional scholar and i asked him i said are you near the supreme court he said no the appointments are getting younger and i'm getting older and uh but in the q a i said i said i watched everything i watch everything i find yours i'm the closest thing you got to a groupie and uh i said i have a question did derrick show man get a fair trial and he like kind of hesitates and he goes i have serious problems with that trial i don't think it would i don't rigged it yeah i also even before i don't in just looking at it objectively whether you think he's guilty or i don't think he was i don't think there was a there was the if if the trial was going to be held in the state of minnesota at all i don't see how there is such thing as a fair trial but i don't think even the evidence we saw supported conviction now for anything here's how well first of all his neck was his knee was on his neck here not here you they were not cutting off blood flow now what the way they rigged the trial first of all there was not a person in that courtroom who wanted to be the person which the news would say what this guy says is what got derrick acquitted that's right yeah no one wanted to win that case i don't think his lawyers wanted to win that case they had to go to australia to get experts in the manual police manual there was a picture and a page showing this is how you restrain a person if that had been shown he gets acquitted because that was what he was doing he was using normal protocol to restrain him now what people normal protocol to have a knee on the neck on the back yeah on the back that's where it was now remember the iconic photo show me the iconic look at look that seems like not great so derrick chauvin aside that does seem like what was also not allowed in the court were the videos that showed up about three or four months after it happened of floyd in the car in the back of the car before being put on the ground right saying i can't breathe i can't i'm suffocating i can't breathe that was not allowed in court excuse me you're acquitted if you see that video that's it's game over crazy that's not allowed in court see that picture right there look at his hands see that iconic picture on the right with his hand in his pocket yeah his hand's not in his pocket he's got a blue glove he's got a blue glove right now that doesn't in any way make him guilty or innocent but it's the photo that made people mad right it's the photo that was used to rile the masses now here's what a lot of people don't know first of all i'm not going to first of all they do know that that that floyd was trying to pass fake money that's a little weird for a junkie but that's a pretty sophisticated scam passing the fake 20 you're trying to pass a fake 20 it's not that sophisticated well if with some mobs or something i'd say maybe but but but but you don't think you don't think junkies have some fake money sometimes well the problem is is that the nightclub that he worked at was rumored to be laundering money so there was a plot thickener that nightclub burned down in the riots how convenient turns out what a lot of people don't know is floyd and chauvin knew each other yeah they did i knew they worked together yeah none of that comes out in the public public's eye you had i remember that wait that one that one came out was public yeah but it wasn't public on cnn it wasn't public on on any of these these places i feel like that one was reported a ton dude really yeah okay i remember that could be i'm not watching yeah they both worked there and at at at the nightclub together bouncing yeah i remember that i'm surprised he's still alive actually i'm surprised he's been able to stay alive in prison i don't think uh i think they'd have a big problem on their hands if a hair on that guy's head was harmed you don't think there's black guys in there you'd like to take him out that's what i'm saying i think and and i think they know that and i think i think they're probably keeping well he's going for a retrial by the way the other guy shouldn't have been sent to prison at all they went the other cops the other cops yeah but they just wanted to clean up this whole riot problem they just they this is one of these you know someone's got to take the fall period yeah and at some level there's logic in that right it's like when cornell denounced me when i tweeted about the guy being tipped over now the irony of that one just to backtrack there is the tweet was signed that the denouncing was signed by the president at the time who i didn't like the provost who's my friend which i found a little ironic but they were just trying to shut down the canceling they were just trying to get the thing to calm the fuck down it was signed by some vice president something not my dean which it should have been and he had once said to me what good is tenure if you don't have free speech i think he said fuck no good for him and it was signed by the chief of police i was defending the police so i'm on a zoom call with the chief of police about a year later and i said as you know i support the police so so everything's fucked up we're kind of in this matrix that's that's real but it's it's constantly created um as we talked about i haven't looked we haven't looked but i woke up and took took a quick peek at twitter and it sounded like europe's about to blow itself up this morning yeah they're like they're saying prepare for sure prepare for all sorts of shit the diesel stories now finally catching catching hold and stuff like that and um but they're talking about you know they're talking about drafts they're talking about and it's all happening today they're pulling they're pulling their ambassadors out of middle eastern embassies this is this is very uh by the way if i'm an iranian i think i would not forget that the u.s funded saddam enough to kill how many iranians died in the iraq iran war i bet it was something like five million i'm just throwing out a wild number but it certainly wasn't 50 and um yeah this is this is from open source intel the uk government wants the public to prepare for severe disruption to daily life that includes stockpiling canned food and drinking water strengthening civic resilience and planning for the possibility of war against whom against we don't even know who it's against so i wrote about the uh ukrainian war the problem i have is i look at that picture holy jesus nato yeah that's exactly right um i write about shit that i don't know to learn i don't write about shit i'm an expert at i find you know when i wrote about ukraine i had to find it on a map and i'm gonna wait a minute my risk my risk board didn't have it there that's not ukraine right but i had been paying attention to putin and for a dozen years putin had been warning nato you can't have ukraine he wasn't saying i want ukraine he's saying you can't have ukraine a fucking moron could understand why putin would take that stance he said ukraine has been the gateway to russia since the dawn of time he can't have nato which by virtue of the rules of nato if he gets in a battle in ukraine the entire nato alliance comes into him he said you can't have ukraine during that heated debate nato took finland or something like that he said you guys are douchebags but he didn't do anything so basically our neocons wanted nato ukraine and we were training the neo-nazis and they weren't even neo they're old nazis you ever seen that video of lindsey graham and john mccain yes in 2015 yeah yeah yeah yeah oh what a shame he died huh what a shame they both died oh um you see i got ripped into by megan mccain and i ripped back by saying you uh you should ask what your parents have been up to because their mother's the one who said you know we all knew what epstein was doing and she worked for an organization was supposed to call shit like that out and she didn't do anything remember when tim dylan used to dress up as megan mccain i don't remember that that's my daddy dylan is brilliant right oh he's amazing brilliant um the comedian saved the day yeah because they they get to the you you want to know an interesting one that went right by probably but um rob reiner gets killed by his kid his kid's whacked out of his mind right yeah you want to know why you go find rob reiner roast rob reiner participated in one of those comedic roasts and you know those are brutal and they're honest so if someone was a junkie the junkie jokes run wild in those roasts right yeah well rob reiner kept getting pounded with diddling kids including his own kid in the roast really so his son killed him so maybe that wasn't just a crazy son right when was this road i don't know deep is great can i take him home with me he's the best in the business he's deep google he's the best in the business best i've ever seen his time actually rogan rogan's guy's pretty good his time his jamie's great i i've never seen anything like the his time stamps every 10 minutes there's like eight lines worth of size 11 text of everything that's said in here while he's doing all this it was so much that when the first podcast i did with baron his security guy steve was sitting right there and nice nice dude and at the end of the podcast he walks up to deep he's like you transcribed the whole podcast and he's like no no no he showed him the time since he thought he was like fully going for it like transcribing the time stamps i wish every podcaster did the time stamp right but i the time stamps you see are just us picking the highlight keywords of the fucking 40 million paragraphs he wrote right it's crazy um you're gonna overtake rogan i think well part of the problem is rogan's seems to be getting stale he was a king maker five years ago but you know he keeps bringing in navy seals and you know and and and and and comedians and stuff like that i don't find his his podcast that interesting he's been he's been doing it a very long time that's right and and and and i think i i don't know joe rogan i've never spoken to him have no relationship with him obviously like kind of the god father not kind of he is the godfather of of of what we do but i do wish from afar he would take six months off of everything that would be a good he looks exhausted and i have said this to people for a few years now i've watched him struggle where you look like he he looked like he wanted to fight back in some way and he held back i i hadn't thought of it this looks exhausted he looks exhausted to me um like when i see him in clips that spark that was there in 2018 2019 and then you know when he also had to like go to battle during covid we also might be doing what he wants to do which you gotta take your hat off of you know who is it i think it was cernovic who i really have no idea who he is um i mean i know who he is but i don't know what he is um he i think it was him who said you become a prisoner of your followers oh he's a hundred percent right about that it's called audience capture right it's something we talk about all the time you do not want to piss off your audience so you're some bitcoin guy and you invite kalamon and all of a sudden your audience is going why the fuck do you want to hear about some guy who doesn't believe in bitcoin that's right right that is something that since day one i have to resist thought i've thought of very hard behind the scenes and all my guys here now like deef and alessi they will tell you that is something we talk about so you're in trouble if you're you're commenting on it and you're in trouble if you're commenting on it and you're comment section start saying we want more satanic pedophile shit sure no absolutely no no that's right do you know how many times i turned down a podcast that i know and default tested us that i know will do seven figure views and pay a lot of bills i'll solve that problem for you oh i but no and i mean this dead fucking seriously no jokes all well i also think the stance of not i do think if tucker invited you to bethel you should go to go on his show yeah if he invited you to bethel yeah i don't know why oh i thought i thought you you didn't i i'm confused no what what happened was his people reached out about him coming on my show i said sure great but he wanted to do it by zoom yeah i and i said well i've done at the time 455 new york yeah but i i said guys this was this was one of my non-negotiables since day one right i do it in person i do it in my studio the minute you say yes to someone and make an exception i know doesn't matter if it's a no one doesn't matter if it's michael jordan everyone after will ask so i've never comes i've never done it becomes nepal i've never fucking done it and i never will so i said hey when he comes to new york the other thing is new york is so many anyone of consequence either can get to new york that's what i'm saying i'm like when you come here i'm like when you come here we'll work our schedule around it i say i say that to everyone like obviously we fly people in all the time but then there's people who are like well you know i don't want to travel no problem just if you come to town let me know not do it it's nothing personal it's like it's nothing personal at all like we do a great podcast i'm sure but yeah i mean i would i would go on a show if he okay i thought okay no one asked me to come on i don't get invited on shows really at all really like i i thought you didn't want to do them no no it's on on big shows like you look at the top 100 podcasters danny jones is my buddy for five years like that's my guy forget about yourselves we no no but but i'm saying like i don't none of those people talk with me i don't really know what that is i've never i did it's nothing bad i've just never been sean ryan i haven't talked to him on the phone in three years he was in my parents house three and a half years ago you know and like sean was a great guy with me i know him as well as the person where's his studio i don't i mean i think that's i think that's pretty public but he's like a very paranoid guy so i'm just not gonna say anything it's in the south okay i think he's public that it that it's in tennessee but i i if he's not he is now um but no no he's definitely public about that but like that's what i'm saying like you know he looks very troubled to me i don't i don't i would love to talk with sean i would if if you gave me 24 hours gun to my head and said you need to get one of two people on the phone sean ryan or kim yong-un i'm not gonna get either on the phone but i'm gonna go for kim yong-un i have a better shot i say that dead serious sean looks very troubled to me it looks to me like the darkness of the world is is wearing on him and that was already happening remember i was sitting in the car with him i'm not gonna tell that story i'm gonna assume that's off record but yeah i i i i think i think well he says it he talks about how i think i think he's very troubled about that stuff right and he he he has gone down the rabbit hole and just discovered that that there's just so much shit down there yeah and it's and it's and it's bad but like at at the same token if i ever talked with him i'd tell him this but i look at some pretty bad shit too right and you got to come up and smell the roses in life too right and well his history might be part of the problem and i and that's the thing sean has been places and seen really dark things and been a part of stuff that i never have and that's the separation so like i can encourage him to do that but like who the fuck am i daryl cooper daryl cooper what daryl what what about daryl if you had him on no he would be really good i'm not a big daryl cooper guy really have you listened to his his yes okay okay i'm not a big daryl cooper guy i've been pretty it's interesting i find he he's able to put you there yeah it really i think i i i think there's narrative driven there oh really that's just my opinion your opinion matters to me yeah no i and and and like people that you talk about audience capture people how could you say that what do you think that's my opinion right you don't have to agree with me out there that's just where i am you have to not trust everything at some level right you're never past 99 if i wanted to okay if i wanted to i could go to the revolutionary war which i study tremendously i think it's an incredible part of history very overlooked on on podcasts and on shows and stuff it's not something that gets gets covered a lot if you made me like a lawyer like a defense attorney go to make a case that the americans were the bad guys right i could do it i i hold on i could do it obviously i don't think that right obviously i'm grateful every day that those motherfuckers in the beer hall said fuck it let's do it let's go right fucking throw some point being the story that gets reported overall is we were a hundred percent the good guys and a hundred percent the bad guys and a hundred percent the bad guys and a hundred percent the bad guys and you can even find the 10 to 15 percent where historians correctly write down and say well they did do this this wasn't the best thing but that's not what makes the documentaries because it's not the highlight reel my point is what you then don't want to do is say well we were told it's 100 this way and then because you find out maybe that it's not a hundred percent you now say well it must be zero right and this is my big history with everyone from the institutions to their opposites and it's something i fight for and i'm not going to lie to you i'm not going to lie to you tremendously on my show all the time people want things to be zero or a hundred are there individual situations where sometimes it is absolutely but when you're looking a complex history right the answer is somewhere in the middle which way does it lean that's what i want to figure out so i put out a tweet that said i'm looking for books to talk about israel palestine ideally from a fairly neutral position that's hard to find right and i said or alternatively i'm going to look for books to talk about zionism from the various sides which in some sense turns it neutral and and and some guy made some reference well would you like to read a book on world war ii that includes the german side i go yeah right then what a dumb rhetorical question that was i dug into the world war ii histories i find i went down a rabbit hole through a series of books and that story is totally whacked it's different than what they write in the history well for starters it turns out fdr's right hand man is chief of staff and fdr being in a wheelchair meant that guy was more important than any chief of staff was a total soviet spy from head to toe soviet spy so everything we did went through harry hopkins and where we landed on d-day everything was about what did stalin want now i went through diana west's book you know read i almost didn't believe it i go this is totally different so i reached out to my friend who's the pentagon expert on on on middle east i just trust the guy she mentioned him in his book so i said i'll call stephen coughlin up and so so i dm'd stephen coughlin said is diana west legit did you read american betrayal is it right and she's he said yes absolutely right and she had to go into hiding after writing the book and what was her uh well it's basically um the role of stalin influencing the war so you know we learned i first learned about the lend lease program from um uh i i copy edited uh ben steel's book uh battle of bretton woods and so i read it very carefully because i was copy editing it and um and it turns out the guy who negotiated with john maynard canes at bretton woods new hampshire was a soviet something you know there's a there's spy there's sympathizers there's there's a gray zone there but it's like something's going on here right um and and it turns out that we gave 10 times more armaments to one country than any other country during world war ii before we got in the game the soviet union not britain it was so absurd oh britain we bet britain's crazy we crushed them we crushed we wouldn't give them shit we made them give some of the shit we gave them to the soviet union and it turned out that the war was over it was insane now the other thing that happened was is we left an estimated 15 to 20 000 u.s troops in soviet territory that we never got back now the official number is 18. not thousand eighteen so when i got hammered last year for quoting patton saying we fought the wrong side yeah um uh victor davis hammered last year for quoting patton saying we fought the wrong side yeah um victor davis hammered last year panto went at me repeatedly and he was lying his ass off and he was quoting the 18 number and i also made a a thought experiment i said you know so imagine hitler was trying to form an alliance with britain before the war started he wanted to form an alliance with britain he was afraid of the soviet union i said if we had formed that alliance because you control your allies better than your enemies we in could have said look you know cut the bullshit over there with the whole jew thing and maybe the holocaust wouldn't have been so bad west said the war could have ended in 1943 which would have cut off a lot of dead people yes and uh and hansen said that was patently absurd i got that's just a lie i said i'm not i'm not that's a that's not a butterfly flap in its wings saying that that um that that would change the war i'm talking i said that's a that's not a flappy wing butterfly that's a serious alternative path for history if britain had formed that alliance you don't know what would have happened yeah so saying maybe there wouldn't have been a holocaust is not irrational because maybe a whole ton of would have been different if you ended it earlier that's right mathematically and as a constant maybe the war wouldn't have started it's a it is enhanced but hansen is is owned by a pack and that's the that's the issue you have to be able to sit there and sift through all the history and find like it doesn't need to be binary right you can play the fucking 10 000 questions game and look at each question on its own level i don't understand why people can't do this and that's where i run into an issue because i've seen the narratives over and over again to where it is either one or the other they want to and it's all here it's they want it but you can't have a clean story exactly when you have two sides of the war where one side of the war included the nazis and the other side the word included the ussr it can't possibly be clean i like to ask the question who won world war ii and people get that wrong they think i'm saying who beat the germans the soviets sent the bodies the british sent the spies the americans who won the war the soviets would would yeah but i think because they got half of europe right no one else got anything close to that right they got half of europe i would say the united states i think the soviets and the united states won because the united states usurped the british empire so you're correct about that yeah that that's right we again our deals that's right we excellent we cut deals with the brits that guaranteed that they would never be a right we excellent we cut deals with our deals yes and we played ruthlessly right we were smart enough in both wars to come in at the end and just kind of mop up the mess now a lot of guys died but not like the other teams right and by the way you can make it you should have been in there for any of them you are right that it was complex history and another thing is and i i've had like i remember i had colonel greg gadsden in here west point guy right like an amazing dude and and he's the one that brought it up not me but i i was very familiar with the story you know a really complicated part of history that you have to look at that is very uncomfortable to look at is the fact that there is tremendous evidence, and I mean tremendous evidence, that FDR and parts of the United States government were aware that Pearl Harbor was going to happen. Oh, no, I went down. The tail end of my rabbit hole on World War II, Day of Deceit. Day of Deceit does a superb job of laying out that story. Now, here's the thing. He actually justified it. The author justified it. And this is the uncomfortable question to ask because that's the second worst day in American history by casualties after 9-11. When you look at history, even if you can agree that World War II and the whole thing and the aftermath is certainly there's a lot going on, and it's not a perfect outcome in any way. A lot of people, millions of people died. Do you wonder if he made the right call there, which is a crazy thing? It's a crazy thing, and it makes me, like, really sick to my stomach to ask, but I'm just asking it pragmatically rather than emotionally or whatever because the three letters that matter the most in the world, whether we like it or not, are G, D, and P. And when you look at Nazi Germany, they were the fastest-growing GDP. They had the most impressive military. They were moving on all fronts. Regardless of what got them to that point, they were moving on all fronts at that point. And the United States… The United States at the time was the most isolationist public in the world. Like, the people of America didn't want to fucking have a wooden gunfight in the backyard, let alone go to war. By the way, who can blame them after World War I? The founding fathers agreed, too. Right? Sure. And so if you had a situation, though, where you did not come in and help and Hitler actually did take over all of Europe, that's a real… Right. That's a real… That's a real problem and thing. And I feel like, especially if you read the May 10th, 39 to May 10th, 40 history with Britain, you know, this is one place where, like, you can't even believe how handcuffed Churchill was. And Churchill won a war more than anyone. Talk about definitely an imperfect guy in every possible fucking way. Starting from World War I. Sure. But, like, he couldn't get any help on that. And this wasn't like a, yeah, let's go help Ukraine. Have Black Rock rebuild it. It wasn't that kind of situation. It was very different. So I think about that a lot because that's what, you know, when I was talking with Greg, we talked about it on camera for a while. And then we talked after Colonel Gadsden. It's like, yeah, it's a really uncomfortable question to ask because it's like, they definitely… I would use the term definitely let it happen, Pearl Harbor. I would use the term… There are letters from admirals saying get the fleet out of there and they just ignored them. Yeah. No, no. And then… There was a British office. So this picture, this skyline, the picture's taken from 30 Rock Center. Yeah. Right? On our wallpaper here. Yeah. In 30 Rock Center, the British MI6 had an office there for, I think, at least two years. Jesse Fink wrote a book about this. I know this book. Where I had Jesse on the show. But, you know… Well, the other thing the war with Japan did, it took Japan off Stalin's flank. Mm-hmm. So we're back to Stalin calling shots here, too. It's messy. It is a mess. And there's guys who say, look, if you go back and look at McCarthy, I think he was an unstable personality, but it doesn't mean he was wrong, that sort of thing. And I haven't dug into the McCarthy story yet. I'll tell you what, I'm more riveted by him than our founding fathers. For some reason, they don't catch me as much. I don't know why. Medieval history catches me. Funny you say that. We've been doing a lot of medieval history recently. Oh, yeah. I'm very fascinated. We have my boy John in here talking about… The whole period I just had in Anthony called Dallas, that'll come out in a few weeks. Oh, so it hasn't come out yet? Talking about the Byzantines, yep. And we're doing… There's some more I have coming up on it. Medieval history is, quite literally, like the most ignored overall, like, thousand years of history. So my secretary, my journal secretary, had a PhD in medieval history, which tells you don't get that because you'll become a secretary, right? But I said, how did you get into medieval history? And she said, in high school, they studied Roman. They studied the Roman Empire and then went right to the Renaissance. That's right. And she said, well, what happened in between? And her teacher said, nothing. That's one of the most insane statements you could ever make. I mean, what happened in between? There was so much going on in between. Oh, there's a ton. I mean, how about even like over just 150 years, like rise and fall with the Mongols. Right. I mean, holy shit. I listened to Paul Cooper's podcast, Rise and Fall of Ancient Civilizations. Is that what it was? I don't know that podcast. I want to make sure I get right the name, but I listened to his episode. There were two episodes on the Mongols. There was a four-hour one and a two-and-a-half-hour one. The four-hour one was basically Genghis Khan. And then the second one was the aftermath thing. I think he invented impaling. Oh, they were both amazing. That four-hour podcast on Genghis Khan is one of the most amazing podcasts I've ever listened to in my fucking life. So I'm in class, and I use the word impale in class, just metaphorically. And then all of a sudden, I go, OK, I'll just break from the script. I say, you know what impaling is? I said, Genghis Khan, take a log, sharp point. They'd tap it up some poor bastard's ass. They would tip him up, prop him up with stones, and leave him there to die. I said, a good impaler could get it to come out of his collarbone without killing him, and he would die a hard death. And this incredibly flamboyant gay kid in the class who, in my opinion, was kind of a hero figure for me, because he wore it so well to me. There was something about him. And he says, I just don't believe that you could do that and not kill him. I said, that's because you're not a master impaler. And he goes, I'd like to think I am. So then I go to Boston to a small music get-together in some brownstone. This is so odd. A small-- I know, it's great. What a great guy. I go to this Boston thing where my son's playing in this brownstone, you know, some fundraiser or something. And I go in there, and his name is Josh, and he in walks Josh. I'm thinking, what are the odds of seeing Josh in Boston? But then I'm thinking later, I'm going, Josh walks into this room full of what is probably 98% gay men, and there's Dave. And he's going, what are the odds of me seeing Dave here? So I said to Josh, I said, Josh, I said, you're going to like this. And I talked to him. I said, my son joined your team. My son's gay. And he goes, ah, that's great. He says, I'm now a conservative. Here's the problem with being gay. I'm going to say it right here, right now. Oh, man. You said it before. Women fix men. When you're gay, you don't have a woman to fix you. There might be some gays that argue that. Well, they might argue it, and I'm open to suggestions. But I do think that there's something--women evolved--women can get the crap kicked out of them. They had to master controlling some guy who looks like he came out of Game of Thrones. And they had to do it in a way that didn't require physical strength. It was cunning. They had to figure out how to do this. They had to find a guy who would protect them, who would provide food. And at the same time--. And at the same time, not kill them, not beat them, not destroy the kids. And also, even beyond the very nature biology there of that, and the animalistic side, I guess, they also had to develop ways to support them, put them in the best psychological position to be able to do that, to be able to provide. That's exactly--they had to support them. But to be able to come home and know that shit was taken care of. That's right. That's right. They--. I had a tweet that made it into a biomedical journal where I was talking about hunter-gatherer model. I think--that's why I love Brett so much, is the hunter-gatherer model of humans really works for me. And I said, "Women are more competitive where men are more cooperative." Now, women don't think that's true, but you watch girls, and the boy just, boom, they go out and run out as a pack and have fun, don't rip each other. And I said, "You know, women are out there gathering. They're out there making money." And then I--the quote I put is, "Hey, hey, bitch, that's my route you got there." And it made it into something like stats or something. It made it into a journal. I'm going, "Holy fuck." I don't know how you--I'm glad you did. I don't know how you survived this past era as a professor at an Ivy League school, as you know. Cornell's very good. Cornell's got a bad rep because someone's writing bad shit about the place. It's really great. No, I'm glad you did. I just--. Right. I mean, there is--one thing that can't be taken from you is you say whatever the fuck you want. I respect it. So one day I said, "Cornell's really a great place. It's utopian." I was waxing philosophically about the place, and I said, "All we have to do is get out of the news cycle," which was during a period when Cornell was getting particularly hammered because some guy said he was euphoric over the Palestinians hitting Israel, right? And that didn't go over well with some group, right? And so Cornell was in a mess, and I said, "We just got to get out of the news cycle." My brother-in-law calls me. Now, who's my brother-in-law? My brother-in-law's Ezra Cornell. He's a trustee by birth. and he calls me and he reads part of my tweet i go where'd you see that and he says my boss sent it to me i said where definitely see it he said no not that boss my other boss i said you're independently employed he said the chairman of the board of trustees he saw it and he was so excited he calls my brother-in-law who knows everyone and i think his name's azra cornell right and he says you know this guy and he goes yeah that's my brother right and and the i think the chairman of the board was so excited to see a faculty member who wasn't whining who recognized that we have a utopian existence and then if we don't fuck it up it could continue right right i talked to women about academia and they go i don't want to do academia because i don't want to have a family i said you know it's the best job in the world for raising family because if you if you have to go my wife you know it's the best job in the world for raising family had her spine fused i said fuck it i'm out of here took two weeks off i just left the class without lectures for two fucking weeks while i went to new york city to get her through the spine fusion where else can you do that right i'm trying to figure out how people say i'm going to work till i drop and i go well when are you going to go to doctor's appointments because i'll tell you when you get to about 70 you start having a lot of them and working nine to five the doctors don't do sundays right they don't do evenings when the fuck you're going to go to the doctors when are you going to you deal with all sorts of shit how are you going to do it and uh and i was talking to my neighbor who was former dean of the b school and he said yeah he said when i retired i i just did doctor's appointments so most something like 74 percent of people who retire they do so against their will spouse needs taken care of they get fired at 60 and they go i i can't get another job i'm too old you know that sort of thing they get sick things like that yeah you can't just work till you drop you can't you can't and hopefully we're not setting up a system where they're trying to make people do that because sometimes it feels well i really worry about the next downturn we didn't talk that much economics but the next downturn is going to be a killer i wrote by the way in may 6 2002 i wrote about the subprime crisis 2002 wow and i got everything right except one thing and that was i thought jp morgan was going to go down because their derivatives they have a big derivatives book and somehow they like invented that what was her name that english lady oh i know you're 94 the fuck was her name i knew i she was the way god 1994 jp morgan derivatives desk british lady she was she was yeah i know who you're talking about i just know she i don't know much about her personally yeah blythe masters exactly yeah exactly and uh in 06 the real estate market turned over and the market didn't care so and here's a funny funny ass story in in os in 07 march of 07 i'm teaching sophomore organic chemistry i turn to the sophomores spontaneously i go the banking system's about to collapse i was watching there was a blogger writing about it one blogger named tonta and there was i think i don't know what it was called the market abx index which is a derivatives index and it started drifting from par and everyone was everyone who's reading this blog is watching this the market abx index and i go something's breaking and then the uh bear stearns internal hedge funds went belly up at 600 million dollars who cares right that was all triggering that was all triggering so remember kramer so bear stearns is fine yeah bear stearns is fine contrary indicator yeah oh my god but but by the way aig wasn't going to go down that's the thing people don't know aig was not going to go down david stockman told me this aig's insurance company was legally ring friends from their derivatives company so there's about 15 guys who had aig out way over their skis but no one could have touched the insurance part so the feds stole it that's why hank greenberg sued the feds for taking over aig and people like that's just appalling you guys almost destroyed the world now just their derivatives group but they stole it and you were five five six years early on well i was just reading what other people were saying so i was just putting those pieces together where people were saying by the way general electric has in theory extended their debt out to be safe but it turns out that they were then using the derivatives market to bring it back forward and so so so i'm going okay so people are taking on real risk here and so i i turned to the class and said this now two years later february oh nine peak shit storm right in the middle of the shit storm i'm teaching honors thesis a bunch of seniors once a week guest lectures writing a thesis for the research and the first day of class i said didn't i tell you guys that the banking system was going to collapse i go yeah you did and i said did any of your econ professors tell you they go no a lot of them double major and they go now and i said what are those assholes paid for and so then my first guest lecture my first guest lecture honors thesis chemistry was rich eulog the ceo of morgan stanley bank and he stood up there i got the best compliment i've ever gotten i've actually two he stood up there and he said we're it was an evening class he says we're sitting at dinner he tells the classes we're sitting at dinner and he's and he says within 15 minutes i realize i'm not the smartest guy at the table the other one was from stockman who said ted lowey was by far cornell's smartest economist until i met this dave column the fucking chemistry now i kind of been yanking my chain reach around but it was still funnier that's funny as shit so you think you were telling me earlier the peas are at like four 40 and and the case you're pe yeah you think they'll come so we got we got an easy 75 percent correction 75 easy it was 60 66 is formally the number for yeah march 9 2009 was the bottom ticker right it's like 66 on the s&p you think it's 75 but what do we have now we have bubble i'm bubbling we've got an ai bubble i do agree way bigger than the dot com we got a real estate bubble i think there's an argument to be made there melody right you want to get melody right on she could tell you horror stories um we've got a general equity bubble because the general equity market's expensive here's here's the kind of numbers i look at like so one day i go out and i go dell dell their revenues their share price is up tenfold since 2016 or 18 or something 16 i think i've said their revenues are up 50 percent share price is up 50 percent share price tenfold revenues 50 i go how's this gonna work out and into my twitter feed comes michael dell he says you know what year we started trading openly again i knew what he was driving at turns out i was 18 but i had a table and it turns out that someone had pieced it i said i'm not gonna try to parse it out of there so i said yeah i know what your point is i'm sitting there going michael you must be bored out of your mind yeah you're like i'm a mac guy yeah well yeah you you you yeah if you're answering tweets on shit like this there's something wrong here dave column tweets so i went through all the the texts and they're all up like 10 times the amount of their revenues except for nvidia is up 25 times the growth on their revenues this is this can't end well there has to be some sort of massive correction at some point here my only thing is as far as the timing goes oh i have no idea i don't know because they will continue to artificially prop it up by kicking the can down the road and doing things that are going to kill us as a country feels close i i and i say this in a way that i hope it affects mainstream the least main street the least which unfortunately is never the way it happens but if it's gonna happen i hope it's sooner rather than later i've been hoping for that because at some point i want to be able to invest in reasonable assets i've been hoping for that because at some point i want to be able to invest in reasonable prices and kids should be able to buy reasonable houses at reasonable prices and and so you're just buying gold right now i'm not doing anything right now because i got a lot of gold and i got a lot of silver last year i did a big plunge into platinum right right at the right time and that was one of the best timing calls i ever did but i don't go big because i'll get spooked out if i go big right and so i tend to average in and i did well but um um and and if if you put a gun to my head and buy some more stuff i'd probably buy some energy but one of the things that's been shown is when the when the markets go down big if you look at the drop by decile they all drop yeah so the the lowest valuation deciles drop like a like a stone too so so so the people who say you know oh yeah the markets are way out of whack i've just listed some guy drives me nuts he's talking about the tremendous profit margins of the uh of the ai companies i go what are you looking at yeah based on what based on what it's - It's like pets.com for some of them. - They're bleeding money, they're bleeding money. And I'm sitting there going, but then he says, well, you know, about five years from now it could be a total disaster. And I go, then I'm out. If I know sometime between now and five years from now that there's going to be a bloodbath, I'm gone. Because I don't need to catch the end. All I know is if, here's one for you. If you own the 29 top, the 29 top, you owned it or bought it. Everyone talks about trough to peak. 1981 to the present, 4% valuation compounding, right? That's trough to peak. Let's do peak to trough. You own the 29 top. You were on a capital gains basis even in 2009. You made nothing in 80 fucking years. When I worked on Wall Street, there was one thing I always tried to talk with the clients. Clients about, because it was a psychological thing, just to understand, like to be able to anchor yourself. And I said, if I have, if I have a dollar and I lose 50%. Take it to the bath. Hold on. What do I have? And they go 50 cents. And I go, okay. And I lost 50%, right? They say, yeah. I say, okay. To get back to even, what percent do I have to make? They can't get it right. No, they wouldn't get it right usually, but a light would go off in their head. They go. A hundred. A hundred. A hundred percent. And I said, you lose more on the downside than you gain on the upside. That's why it's important to be able to have some sort of baseline that you know is going to be there. So what's a good. The argument was for some diversification and things to keep things a little simpler. You know, the other math they blow, by the way, is if the market goes up three X, if the market goes up three X, you're up 200%. People miss that math. Evaluation by definition. Evaluation has a numerator and denominator. Inflation affects both. You can't get out of a high valuation from inflation. Now, the inflation metrics are terrible, right? The CPI is garbage. I think an excellent inflation metric. Now there's the shadow stats and Butkowski and the Chapwood index and stuff. But I think they come in hot. I think if you do the math, you go, wait a minute. I don't think prices are up that much. Right. But M2 money supply looks like a pretty good inflation metric to me. It turns out that if you take the 100 years of the market, you look at capital gains corrected for M2 money supply. It's down. Your entire profit is dividends. Now, if you add in the dividends. If you add in the dividends, it's 3.7% annualized. Now, Buffett said in an article written in 1999, if you add in all the expenses and everything, he didn't include taxes, by the way, which is critical, but they're very hard to calculate because they're so different for everybody. Fees, crap like that. He said, you can't make more than 4% a year. The average person in the market, and there was a poll done last year, and they said they asked retail investors. They said, you can't make more than 4% a year. How much, what's your expected return going forward? They said 11.5% by the poll. Inflation adjusted. Inflation adjusted, 11.5%. And they said, of course, the pros were much more grounded. They said 8.4%. I'm going from these valuations, if in the next 10 years you're even, you won. You won. Because to me, it's looking like a easily, easily. If at the current valuations, if we grow the GDP, like they did in the 20th century, which I would consider lucky, 45 years to grow our way out of this valuation. Well, on that note. On that note. On that note, a little down. Hopefully, like I said, hopefully it's sooner rather than later. So maybe we can have some better numbers than 45 years. Peter Schiff and I were on the same page. Yeah, apparently. Dave, this has been fun talking with you, man. Thank you for coming in on a Sunday to do it. Great. All right. So we will have your X link down below, your very entertaining follow over there. And I appreciate all the support you've shown for me as well. And great to chop it up with you, sir. Well, you deserve the support. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sure we'll do it again. Good. All right. Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Hey, guys. If you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE-certified master technicians. And if you need help, we can recommend a shop for you. Auto Parts. Oh, oh, oh, O'Reilly.