Top 10 Lessons We Learned From Interviewing Top Producers

Hello and welcome to the Max Revenue show. I'm your host, Trace Shields, along with the Zen Master of Commercial Insurance, Michael Salas, Michael Howard, this morning. I'm awesome, man. I had a good Father's Day, happy Father's Day to everyone listening, belated. But yeah, it was good. How's your Father's Day? How many children are you up to now? I'm trying to catch you, but every time I think I'm getting ground, you just ward up me. So we'll have three in August, third, third baby boys arriving August, third. Then you're going to be a mom doing six, right? Six and two weeks. I'll be I'll be six and two weeks. Yep. Wild mom is ready to be done. Yeah, Texas, Texas heat. Fregnant. Not not fun. So, yeah, we're in the same boat here. We are on the struggle bus and we are just hanging on for your life. Yeah, we'll survive. But enough of that. Let's get into the real meat and potatoes. Today's episode is top 10 lessons learned from talking with top producers so far. So if you're a listener or a new listener, I guess sometime around the end of last year, we decided, hey, you know, it would be a really smart idea. What if we actually just started to interview top producers in the industry instead of us two idiots just talking about stuff all the time? You know, we're a little bit on the slow learner side. So after three years of us just doing it ourselves, we decided to start looping in some other people. And what do you know, we have a had an influx of plethora of new ideas and listeners. So anyways, we're trying to do that kind of 80, 20, 80% new blood and then 20% us just talking shop. So anyways, we normally record on Mondays and we had two guests back out on us just because they had up. You know, stuff to do happens. And I called Micah and said, hey, man, we're going to have to figure this one out. And so this is what we came up with. So we have gone back and use good old artificial intelligence to help us. Go over the old transcripts and kind of pull out the big ideas. Well, you have. And I had. I went all natural. Did you really? I did. And sorry to interrupt you, but when you texted me this morning, no, this is no joke for everyone listening. Probably I will, I think I woke up around 545 was just laying in my bed, kind of just let my mind wander relax. I literally thought, you know, we should do, we should do a six month, kind of take the highlights of lessons learned from top producers. And then I did kind of for, yeah, no joke. And then I forgot about it. And then you text me. I was like, no, freaking way. I'm not sure if I can do it. But I'm not sure if I can do it. Interrupting the pod for a quick ad read shout out any you property guys listening. If you've ever quoted a wind deductible buy down and then waited days for some junior broker at a big shop to call you back. There is a better way it's called wind deductible buyback.com. 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Yeah almost everyone mentioned something to do with some type of faith belief in a higher power relying on something bigger than themselves having a purpose and a drive outside of them and just seeking their own selfish ends. They mentioned faith. So if you're an atheist just you're never going to be a million dollar producer. No sorry so go to church. Yeah yeah. No I think that's important because I mean at the core of any I think religion or faith whatever is like this concept of surrender and also like thinking of others and so I think what makes my opinion probably a really good. Top salesperson is that people feel like wow this guy cares about me right so I think that generally kind of comes out of you as a salesperson. It's just a general person dad whatever if you have that and you are actually practicing it mindful of it and not just you know saying it with your mouth but not actually taking it to heart so that's a good. That's a good one. I picked that one up on a run yesterday. I've been for those of you who don't know I'm training for a marathon and fat boy. And that's like my thinking time man five o'clock five thirty in the morning when it's dark and just out there pounding pavement I typically don't run with music. The idea is they just that's one of those music dude you're a you're freak a raw dog it that's every time I see I saw this lady running this morning when I was walking koa and my dog. And she had no headphones on I've seen like there's two people in my neighborhood that do it every time I want to stay. And you're special like keep it up because I've done it a couple times and it's I walk with no music no pod getting none of that but when it comes to running I just like the music. Speaking of running have you ever cried mid run no do this is God don't ask me such a stupid question this is insane. Probably about a year so I still run but not that's your level but you know two to three miles a couple times a week. There's been like three times last year I have all absolutely I don't cry barely cry. Working on trying to get those emotions that were stuffed on as a kid up but anyways do you know that even took one day I was this was last year running and I started thinking what my dad just. Just feeling grateful that was it I wasn't trying to force it up okay okay gotta gotta that's I thought you just okay that's totally okay dude all the sudden I kid you not. Full blown sobbing at like running on my like to and I just kept going I was who I was huffing it man and it was just wild but then I had it happen another time I was running through a forest and yeah so anyways not to get off tangent there but. And if you need a good cry maybe she got a. Cannot cannot relate all right number two before we lose everybody so good oh bad you're up number to be vulnerable just kidding okay to do a total what I wait. So I wrote down five and all the way we did not cross reference these so these were like totally just hey show up let's both share ours if we have a cross over we have a cross over and mine we're not taken from the use of AI but. Business acumen basically you know we get and the importance of it right we had you know everyone from gosh everyone talked about this I feel like. Because at the end of the day you're you're selling yourself but how do you differentiate yourself I think it's just like a collection of all the experiences and your knowledge and your wisdom and bringing that to a meeting with a client and it's just going to. Exude out of you if you have it or if you don't. Now this doesn't mean if you're a young guy 25 listen you're like oh man i'm screwed right cuz that's kind of what I felt a lot of times in my mid 20s when I was that federated but that's where I use the knowledge piece and I got so into knowledge about policies and all that stuff and I said okay i'm gonna differentiate myself by educating you know i'm just knowing insurance really well. So that's an important piece I think starting but I think equally as important and then more important as you get older and want to get the bigger accounts and kind of have a competitive advantage is that business acumen piece and some of it will only come with experience but some of it you can speed up a little bit like shout out to David right. Out of Seattle we had him on I don't know what is a fifth guest. The dudes like not only a genius on insurance but he's also really just wise beyond his years when it comes to like business acumen and. He reads trade journals he goes to trade shows he gets inundated and that's kind of where niching down can help that that wasn't one of my top five niching but the whole business acumen piece even if you don't niche you can have a really good business acumen right you can kind of just know what's going on in the world so yeah that was one of the things that I had really. That I had written down and I think it's important okay the faith thing just to be clear that was not AI and all of my ideas are not AI. I just had AI go in and pull out the big ideas and then I went through and filtered which ones I thought and then as we're talking I literally have more popping up in my head. All right number two. Hang in there guys and gals last had read for this episode I promise insurance X state generate leads when new biz if you've been following us for any amount of time you know that we've been. Tutin' their horn long before they were ever a sponsor of this show. Guys, if you're a producer, whether you're an E.B. or an P and C guy or gal, gotta have insurance, X-Tate. We're talking work comp, X-Tate data, health and retirement data, non-profit data. They've now got like OSHA and DOT filing data on there. They've got all kinds of stuff. They also have, you can go on there and they've got like a leads marketplace where they've got actual leads that first come for serve. They've got a bunch of new stuff on there that you, that you gotta go check out. If you're a producer and you're in the game and you're actively prospecting and pounding pavement, you gotta have insurance, X-Tate. Go check them out. Link in the show notes to a free trial. Insurance, X-Tate is where new business begins. All right, guys, back to the show. With the exception of one person, every single one we talk to has a significant cold outbound effort or at least they started with cold outbound. And almost none said anything about or prioritize networking. I thought of that as well. Who's the one that did not have a cold outbound start? Do you remember? Well, not that he didn't have a cold outbound start, but if you remember A-Rod or boy from Arizona, he's the big network, wine and dine 69. Yeah, mind. Yeah, mind. Yeah, no. Yeah, no, you're right. I think that just underscores what we were talking about on last week's episode with Sims who's not a producer, but talking about social selling. And that's a really cool way to enhance what you're doing. But it really edits core. This is what always made me laugh and feel like I crushed it on LinkedIn. But really if you kind of get it down to what it is, it's just you're still cold outbounding via you're just using LinkedIn as the intermediate channel, right versus a telephone or a drop-in. So it's still a cold outbound. So yeah, I think it's really tough to tell yourself you're going to get to the levels you want to get to if by doing anything other than cold outbound, right, to start. Then as you evolve, expand your network, get a customer base, you can get referrals, you can do all that stuff. Yes, the other stuff will come on. But I think yeah, and also a way to just always have a predictable result and to have that control is to have the cold outbound. I was thinking about this this morning, I'm 40, about to be 41 in October. And I was like, man, when I'm 50, do I want to be cold calling? And I was like, because I was talking to a guy that we actually used in the middle of jobs. And he was like, I don't know if I want to stay in insurance. And now he was not a producer, he's on the marketing side, but he kind of associated himself in that sales type under that sales category. And he was just kind of burnt out on insurance. And I was thinking ahead, like, when I'm 50, he's 50. And I was like, do I want to be cold calling? And I'm like, then I started to think I'm like, am I, I was almost like looking down upon my future self? That makes sense. Like, am I above that? Like, but then I was like, wait, what's, what's, what's the shame in reaching out to someone that you think you can help? No matter what age you are, I don't care if you're 50 or 60. Like, now it doesn't mean the same, you shouldn't have to be doing the same level because you're going to be building up clientele. You're going to have referrals. You're going to, you still will maybe do and cold out. I'm like, Hey, John, I ensure Susie, Steve and, and Randy, they all live in your neck of the woods, worked with them for the last five years. We did a lot of good things. And I just come by and meet with you. Like, that's the kind of, you know what I mean? That's the kind of style of a cold call you're making. You don't have to say like, I got this really cool, innovative process. Can I come pitch it to you? It's like, no, you just, you just drop confidently who you're already helping. And it's like, yeah, it's a cold call, but it doesn't even feel like a cold call. Even if you don't get a warm introduction, just what, and that's the power of, you know, it all comes back like specializing in an industry or a geography or something where you can start to just build up this base and just becomes easier. The momentum builds on itself, but you still have to be intentional because if you're 55 and you're not doing that cold outbound effort, I think your book will start to shrink or or not cold out on that intentional outbound effort, whatever that looks like through a warm intro through, but you got to be intentional. So I was having a conversation, text message back and forth with an agency owner and he said, you know, a lot of people are hating on the howl and stuff. He's like, I actually got mad respect for him though. He said, it's kind of gangster. And as, and I just, you know, I've just laughed and said, I really don't carry the way I just, you know, I'm here to stir the pot. Yeah, because he was saying it in response to the post that I put up last week about him. And he's like, yeah, we have this idea in the industry that, you know, we're too good to recruit or too good to cold call or too good to slide in the DMs. And he's like, and he's like, that's why we win because nothing's beneath me. You know, he said, barring, you know, being unethical. He's like, I'm always recruiting. I'm always prospecting. I'm always on the war path. And I just, you know, coming from an agency owner, I thought that was. It's that's interesting. That's a really important insight because I think a lot of times we as producers, and I put a video out on this, but we can come across and we can become very arrogant and pompous because we have a hard job, right? No, that's no joke. But for the people when you have some success, first of all, we get paid really well. If you're successful, but your staff, your account managers don't get paid as well as we do. And this was really true when I saw I got into the industry in the early 2010s. Man, there was some producers that got into the industry in the 90s and they were still operating like it was the 90s. And now here were 2026 and there's still probably producers out there that are 60 70 that are they're acting like that. Not saying all you guys that are that age are, but this is something to be mindful of is this like air against it just like they don't even know it, but it's this pompousness like looking down upon the client managers and just some of the stories you hear are just insane, dude. Even talk with my client manager who's been in the industry about 10 years long and I have in some of the stories from like 2005 or like producers is coming in her office and chucking like things on her desk. Hey, I need this by tomorrow. Like just no respect. And so where I'm going with all this is that don't ever think you're above anything, right? Like I think that's an important trait in just quality to have. Not only will your own team feel it, but I think eventually prospect will feel it. And there is a there is a side where you want to be confident, right? And you want to be able to walk away and you don't want to be needy for a prospect, but you can also come across as a prick and a douchebag and just don't be that. That's all I would say. Well, that of that. What a what a brilliant take. What a brilliant analysis. Yeah. All right. Number three, what you got. Okay. Let's see. Number for me. Number two. Yeah. Yes. Number three total. Number two for you. And this kind of dovetails off a year first point, but I put believe that. No, that would be this would be number four free. This would be number four. But two for me. Yes. We can't do math over here at the max. I'm going to show public math. Don't do it. No, hated math. Believe in your process and your value. So like, I mean, Larry Linnie talked about the season out of producer. But he's coached $32 $1 million. Your plus producers. So I think he knows what he's talking about. But everybody, Guffy, you know, talks about this. A lot of guys, David Wright, I think of, you know, I think of the other David, I think of everybody, right? Boy rich, right? He truly believed that like captives make so much sense that he's he's he just believes in it, right? And so it's like, I gotta get it's almost like you've been you become a believer or something, right? You like to spread the gospel. Like, but you have this belief that like, hey, my process, my approach makes a ton of sense. I think it can really help these people out. So I am going, that's what's driving me. And, uh, and I think when you have that insertion is kind of feed, feed on itself. And then, you know, I think belief, we're talking, you know, what have we learned from top producers? Also that whole belief of like, get out of your own way. Like, what is possible? You know, who says I have to like a million dollars, like the mark to get to. Maybe this two, three, four, whatever. 10. So yeah, that's important. I think that's great. You know, who else reminds me of that Houston Harris? The guy we had on from my Swingle Collins. Yep. He's a big process guy that he actually, if you remember, he talks about he actually picked up his process by reaching out randomly to this guy. He read on power brokers. And then that guy became his mentor. All right. Number five here, let me pull up my list here. I mean, this is, this is going to obvious. I'll use, uh, Karothers quote here. If all you do is quote, you've already lost. I mean, I know we've beaten this drama a million times, but a lot of times we need to be reminded more than we need to learn new things. And especially when you do this podcast or write the newsletter or whatever, you're like, you feel like you're becoming redundant because you're saying the same thing a million different ways, but I mean, dude, nobody, nobody we've talked to just blindly quotes. They almost all of them lead with some type of broker selection process as the tip of the spear and then they fall back to quoting, you know, as some type like as they're fall back position, not everybody. You know, we had the hardcore guys. You have Guffy and then, you know, OB is not in production, but he's a hardcore BOR bus guy. So I wouldn't say it's everybody does it, but everybody at least leads with some type of due diligence process. Nobody's just calling in asking if they can quote. Yeah, not a thing. You think it would be obvious. We're in our little bubble right here, right? So we're talking to the elite. The reason I know it's not obvious and hopefully there's, if there's people listening that still haven't come around to this, maybe this is kind of a wake up call, but like, I still see it all the time because I talked to prospects a little time ago. I quoted it all last year with three guys or, you know, just you hear you're working on these opportunities where you can tell there's still agents out there that are quoting like that basically just like taking whatever the client's giving them. I mean, I just can think of two scenarios off the top of my head. Two weeks ago, I had this, there was a late July renewal. I was kind of been trying to pitch due diligence. She sends me like a little email. Like, here's what I need. And I was like, well, who will be all sent this to? Like two other people are quoting it based on this. And so it's like, who's even I just told her like, Hey, I'm good, you know, but there's, but there's people out there that give into that, right? And so that's so as much as we think everyone is kind of not doing the, just the quoting and praying and hoping. There's a lot doing it. Another one I think of is I just wrote a deal. I got a referral from a client. This is kind of a funny situation, but I'll share it super quick. He calls me five days prior to his renewal. Hey, my broker just called me yesterday. Can you help? I'm like, dude, for five days out, I have one under it. I think it maybe help. This was a referral from a good client. And this guy was also a pretty good little size business. Probably like 12 in revenue. So I was like, okay, decent little, maybe lay up here. But I said, Hey, man, I said, typically, this is how I would do things ran through to that. But I said, give the time crunch. Let's see. I have one market in mind. If I go there, they'll like, you're going with me basically. Yeah, sends me all this. And he's like, yeah, I quoted last year, but this one guy came in, but he just kind of got quite get there on price. And I'm like, okay, well, as I get the policies and review it, he sends them all to me Monday reviewing it. He has exclusions for everything he's doing. Like work below 12 feet depth excluded. He's a nice guy doing most of his works 20 feet deep. So total subsidence exclusion theft exclusion on his in-memory. And so that tells me the guy who had who took a shot at it last year must not have looked at any policies and just tried quoting off of like some basic numbers and he let the client take control. This is where the belief comes in like, guys, you have to believe that, Hey, I know you want it done this way. Here's a better way to do it. And if you don't want to meet me there, then we're going to have to walk away. Now this isn't the whole PR quote strategy. That's another topic. And like even just getting information and just not running the process the way they will run it. Like, Hey, I'm going to send you my deck pages. They're going to wet out the premiums and you're going to quote it. Like that is just a waste of your time. Don't do it. I get it's hard when you're starting. And like, you think, Oh, that's an opportunity. I think I can win this. Don't fall for those traps, right? Stick to your guns and at least stick to the model of like, Hey, I need some. I'm going to, if I'm going to at least put maybe even quote, I need all this information then upfront before I even make a decision, right? Anyways, so I won this deal. The guy was like, he literally said to me, I said, Hey, man, we closed it in four days because I called one underwriter that I knew I just closed a deal, a different deal with and I knew this guy could get it done. Call them. He's like, Yep, I think we can do this. He turned it for me. And not only did I save the guy 13 grand, which is kind of funny, but his words, 13 grand from last year at 13 grand from the from from I'm sorry, 13 grand off of where his agents in comments, quote, had come back on right because he's grown a lot too, like doubled in sales. So it's kind of a weird. Sure, sure, sure. But the point is, this is as quote to me, I said, Hey, man, glad we get this done looking forward to working with you. He's like, man, I'm so embarrassed. And he's like, I've gone basically six years without with paying for insurance and having no coverage. That's just terrible. And I said, man, don't be embarrassed, dude. I'm like, you're running a business. It's really tough to grow a business if you have to be looking over every vendor's shoulder that you work with. Like you have to have some level of trust. Now yes, there is some some due diligence you should do at some level, but you're not going to go in there. You're not a policy expert. You're not a tax expert. You're not a bank expert. You have to rely on these professionals. And and he's like, yeah, you're right. I can't do it. You know, you don't grow, you don't grow a $10 million of your company over five years. He's grown a $10 million business. His second company by control being in a control for you. You got to delegate, right? I'm getting off topic here, but that's a good message for all producers out there. No, that's fine. You know, so how much revenue have you written in the last 60 days? You had the hot and dude, I don't know 200 almost. Maybe one day, I remember our bet. I'm still letter. No, still under you said 275, right? I said you were going to write 275. So my 255 right now, I will get there. I'm not going to get there. Whatever I can do. Shut it down. Till they, unless they call me, I just want you to remember, I haven't forgotten my bet. I said you would go over 275 easy. Yeah. And you obviously, you know, okay, you know, one last thing I think you know the scary part for me is on that bet. I have another deal that was a march for new and I was like, okay, I'm not going to get it this year. We'll get it for next year. I met with them and they're, she emailed me like right after. She's like, hey, can we talk about like you taking this over? Maybe midterm. This was after we made the bet. That's like 35 revenues. That would put me if it falls in the next. Maybe I'll do it for 11. I win the bet, you know, fair enough. All right, because I'm not just doing revenue on the books. It's also be a word for this year though. Okay. Now, is it my turn? I think it's my turn because that was quoting. Okay, go ahead. That was a long tangent. Sorry guys. Okay. We'll be brief. Go ahead. Being intentional, which kind of dovetails that one. That was mine. And, you know, top producers don't have busy days. They have productive days, right? So it's like, hey, how can I be intentional? What my day? Actually purposeful in my word intentional because not everyone is superstructured where it's like my whole calendar is booked out for the next five days with meetings and every gap is filled with something. But I think it's what I say being intentional. It's like being intentional with what is the first thing that you got to do? Produce, right? Being intentional with delegating, being intentional with who I work with, being intentional with everything, right? My process I'm following is just very, it's very mindful and thought out. Of everything they're doing. And ultimately is it all serving the purpose of like helping me grow my business? If it's not, I'm going to be intentional about what I cut out, right? As Larry talks about. Not, not a lot of, not a lot of waste in there. Correct. So, no, I think that makes tonsense. I mean, I, we got Luke, who's the king of, you know, time management and you look at how much he squeezes in. I mean, it's just kind of by the way we go. We got a little guest. We have, we have a guest. Kind of by default, you kind of self-select out as a top producer if you, if you're not great at time management. If you're watching on the, on the Spotify, my, my daughter just walked in, even though I specifically told them to leave me alone. That's okay. All right. Well, let's move on to my next one, which actually kind of does tells off this. So there's a quote from Josh Gurley. What does it gain a man to profit that loses his own soul that also comes from another book. But the thing is kind of going back to your free agent thesis. Everyone we've talked to, like you said, super intentional, not a lot of waste, but they also prioritize their family. Yep. And so there was a lot of intentionality around. Here's my time. Yeah, right. Here's my time for work. Here's my time for my family. Like they're also, they were also very diligent husbands and good fathers and whatever. Hey, can you take her out for me? That was completely unscripted. Thank you. But no, so they weren't just a one, they weren't a one trick pony. Almost all of them mentioned something about prioritizing their family and keeping that at the forefront as well. So they're a top producer, but they also wanted to be a high performer at home and in their marriage or in their relationships. It's good. I saw something online. I really liked recently because as a producer, one of the tough things is everything just melt together, which is one of the cool things, but also one of the frustrating things because you go on vacation and your mind is still like, you, like my wife always talks with us like, Tori, you never really get a true vacation, you know, because clients got my cell phone, things can pop up. But I, this one guy was like, don't worry. I think his name is David Wright and not the David Wright we talked to, but a different one of some psychologists. But he's like, let's, like, don't worry about work, life balance. It's more like work, life, integration, you know, and he talked about just stop trying to be like, this box is here, this box is there, just like life is just kind of life. And that mindset, I kind of really like because it's like, it's cool. I mean, to have the flexibility, like, like you said to your point, it's just just not discounting completely and going all in down the whole rabbit hole of like work, work, and forget about the family, the most important things in life. And I, yeah, I mean, otherwise what good does it do to get a million dollar book, two million dollar book and have nothing to come home to? Everything fall apart. Yep. So. Well, she got this actually goes on actually kind of very closely tied to my last point, which is being intentional. But I put pick the clients that you want to work with. So, yeah, you talk to everybody and they're not, I think, Guffy Wright and Larry Lini, we talk about creating a floor, right, and raising that floor. I've talked about creating a floor. I get I talked to guys about this all the time who are just starting out like, Hey, man, should I go down to 10, should I go to five, 50, I don't know, like everybody, everybody situation is different, but pick something for me right now. Personally, it's like 15 is my what I try, what in my mind, if I'm going to work on something, now the deal I just did that was 12. It was a referral from a really good client. It was kind of an ease right in my sweet spot. But that's the thing. When you pick your floor, just know that you're going to probably have times where it goes below that slightly. That's where you want to go a little bit higher. Like if I pick to 5k floor, they can be on the working on 3k deals. Since my floor is 15, yeah, I'll fall into some 10, 11, 12s. that's usually now, that's like my real floor of what ends up happening. But also not even just floors and premium sizes, personality, right? And like, do you want to work with this person? Like, do you like them? Will they treat your team well? Will they be enjoyable to work with? Those are all important factors. And I mean, life's really short, dude. And like, you don't want to be working with a bunch of clients who just pissed you off all the time. And I put up a post on this as well. But and you've, if you're in the industry, you've probably heard the sentiment before, but a lot of client managers will say this is, they'll be like, I've heard a few times. The, the book mirrors the producer. So like the client types oftentimes mirror the producer. So if your book's not mirroring you like, so let's say you're a pretty good person, but your clients are a holes. One, maybe you aren't a hole. You don't know it. Two though, maybe you aren't, but maybe you are selling from a place of desperation or you're making exceptions where you shouldn't. And then that is what's allowing these crappy prospects to become clients. And because of that, right? Or maybe your process is broken and you're quoting 100% on deals you shouldn't be. Well, then yes, you're going to attract people that aren't really who you, who aren't aligned with, with you. And then what's going to happen is your team's going to be pissed off. You're going to be pissed off and you're probably not going to grow at the rate that you want to grow. And you're just not going to be happy. Yeah. I'm pretty sure the first time we met Luke on the podcast when we had him on, that's one of the things that he talked about was finding that personality match. Whereas he actually sells eb and P and C, which blows my mind. But, you know, he might write 1000 life group, seven states away. And then he also might write like the P and C on his daughters, daycare or whatever. But he's like, I'm just looking for people that are in alignment with me and my principles. And I just thought that was super cool. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about that as well when we talked about three stars, prospects, right, that have five star potential. That's one of the big ones for me is like, yeah, the psychographic component versus just like demographics and all that. Like, hey, do they have that like that factor? Are there someone cool that you want to work with all that stuff? So down to the last two pretty much. Huh? Yeah. Down to the last two. Everybody that we talked to had a pretty banger support team. I think that's kind of obvious that you have to have a certain support team to get to a certain size. But nobody came up, but it's kind of to your point earlier, nobody really came across as being a dick. You know what I mean? Excuse my language. Like to their support team, they were a very complimentary of their support team. They talk about how they're, you know, I really think about Alex Rodriguez when he talks about this. Like he went on a, he wrote a couple bad deals and it wasn't good for his team. And his team came and checked him on it and he took it and made an adjustment. And so it's almost like there's this symbiotic relationship with their service team. Instead of there in an ivory tower and their service teams down here, back to your point about the 90s model or whatever. I don't know. I just this is a common theme that I picked up on. Nobody was not that they would come on and be like derogatory about their service team. But I've worked with some guys that were assholes to their service team and I definitely didn't get that. Definitely didn't get that vibe from anybody. If anything, they were, they raved about their service team and they definitely had an open door policy with their team that there was this back and forth. And they were also actively building almost like junior, a lot of them had junior producers underneath them like Luke. If you remember Houston did, obviously Justin Tatum is literally built, you know, he had a huge book. He had MMA and he's built it building the team underneath him at HG. So there was this reciprocity and giving back as well. Yeah. No, that's a great point. The team. I mean, yeah, it's you're not going to get anywhere if you don't have a decent team. And everyone's to while I talk to producers who are kind of at a smaller shop, right? And don't have like they're trying to do it all like play account manager and producer. And you're just never going to get probably above gosh, man. I'd have a hard time imagining anyone going above $500,000 book if you don't have like even maybe 350, 400 because you don't have a client manager. You know, unless you just only write big clients, but then they're going to we probably never in a right big clients. If you don't have a team that to some, it doesn't have to be like 10 people like the big shops they bring and everybody the claims person, the lost control. No, just just just one person, right? You and another person. The interesting thing that makes that that will be interesting to think about. Of where industry is going is with AI. Like the AI agents are insane now just had a call with a company called circle and yesterday just to chat with them. And there's like they're kind of like a competitive out market, but but I'd say more complex like you can basically say they integrate from email all the way through back end, right? So now imagine being a small little agent and you can pay $2,500 a year to this deal to get one one seat or something, let's just say. But in the past, you had to have an analyst that cost you 25 grand a year, right? This basically I'm talking like 25 grand shit. I'm talking an analyst, like lowest level, like you know, kind of just and that was probably 2010 pricing. I don't know what it is now. But it's it's I mean, it's insane. And the guy was like the founders were like, no one to stand for super smart guys, super nice to actually down the earth. And they're like probably six months ago, this wasn't even possible. That's how far that's how quickly AI is because AI's been out one a year and a half now. Like I think that's when kind of Gemini clawed all that stuff came out was what 2025. So in the last six months, it's really picked up a lot of I've even noticed it using like we use different AI tools to create proposals and like. The level of complexity can handle a certain kind of like really pick up. I had a, you know, side by side comparison deal I did where I put the rates and then I put a middle column where I show like let this year's rates at last year's premium exposures and all that stuff. It's bet that thing out like 10, 15 minutes dude and it was like really good. And the class ended to one of my bigger clients that this is awesome. Thanks so much for this detail is like cool. But anyways, my point of saying all this is this like circle or the competitors. It's wild man. They can so the email can come in and it can automatically do the workflow and you could put S.O.P.s in there. So like you get every hundred, 120's out from renewal. You get a renewal packet with all the apps that are needed. Hey, I need this accord done you just type talk to it type it in fills out all the accord and it pulls like epic and pulls all the information you have and floods the new accord. I mean. It's kind of scary. I wanted the one piece of advice I gave them is they're like, hey, we're really selling this as it turns everyone into a salesperson at an agency. I said, no, I said wrong move. I said account managers, catalyst. They don't want to be a salesperson. Plus they're not that's not what's best for them. I said that you got to sell it as like they can take out a bigger book. It can augment them. It can also free up time or I think get more done in a seven hour or eight hour day. So maybe they don't feel like I have to stay longer or have to be crammed and they basically turn into more of a quarterback, right? A coordinator and then also have more time to maybe foster those relationships along with a producer. That's how I would envision it. But I'm getting off tangent here. I just want to the theme is like a team is important, but the team what a team looks like is changing, right? And so don't feel like I can't afford an analyst at 30 grand or maybe I don't want to do a VA virtual assistant. Dude, there's a lot of good options out there nowadays that it could change the game and you might see some bigger producers just leave an agency altogether if they can get the market access. And why not open just your own freaking shop. I mean, and just you get a half million dollar book and you're making 90% of that and giving 10 to an aggregator. And you have like, I mean, you start to think about stuff like that and things could change, you know, Christian sin ever sells will just go start our own and we'll yeah, yeah. All right. All right, number 10. Is this on me, right? I'm close out. Yeah, this is you. Oh, the big moment don't shout the ball, Michael. I did on the last episode of Sims. Be edited out. So I made you look man. Okay. So I guess obviously you didn't listen to the podcast. Awesome. I did listen to the first 30 minutes. I just couldn't take a full hour because I just heard it the day before. So be coachable. Oh, the fastest way to plateau is to let a massive year trick you know, thinking you've got it all figured out the best in the world still want to tape the tape watch. Just still want their scripts torn apart. Still for the blind spots are too close to see. Thanks, Jim. I for that quote. You're face. You didn't use AI you freaking cheater. So what I did is I had all my ideas. I put it in. I said, give me some quotes. And that's actually the only quote I said today from AI. The other one was top producers don't have busy days. They have structured days. What I tried doing was using a add a poll specific quotes once I gave it the themes from producers that said I'm gonna do it. So, but be coachable. So man, this is a big theme that like either have a mentor hire a coach or look for ways to get outside of your vacuum that you're thinking of right. Because you can become nose blind to thinking like that what you're doing smells like roses right. Your process your way of doing things and you just you're reinforcing that belief. And so until you get another perspective in there, you'll be stuck. You'll be trapped and you won't know why. And so this takes some humility to be coached right. I remember at federated one of the big I was talking with my manager who's now been there like 30 30 some years, I think very successful hired a lot of producers. For agents his biggest thing is like we look for coach ability. That's why we like actually acts athletes because athletes are understand to it's important to be coachable at least you know good good good team players right. So just an important trait. And if you're young, latch on to a mentor, if you're listening to this, or you know, dive into stuff like this, where you hear other perspectives at least if you don't have like a mentor you can find. Pay for a trainer if you have the funds, you don't need to, but you know, maybe it's something that that you want to do, a coach or a consultant could be the path for you. We've had several on here. There's several. You can just go and link in and find a ton. So yeah, that's what I would end on with coachable. You know what I had written down that I think kind of works with that and something I've been kind of wrapping my mind around lately for something separate. But you know what I feel like is a prerequisite for that coachability that's super important is curiosity. It's like just being curious about what other people are doing. If there's a better way to do it than what you're doing it, it kind of can also go back to the business acumen about always just learning. I'm a big fan of Arthur Brooks and his podcast and his book and just different stuff and that's one thing that he talks about is like he uses the word strivers. And it's just like people that are chasing excellence. And I think that the curiosity thing is just, it's just something that has to be there. But I don't that it is crazy to me in life. How many people just aren't necessarily curious. Is it they're so sure about their own POV on things or they just aren't super interested in learning new things? I don't know what it is. I've to me, I've actually probably been curious to a fault. I'm a sucker for shiny objects. And so it's kind of like that's a double edged sword there. You know, it can also come back to really bite you in the ass, which it has done for me in a lot of areas of life. Yeah. And just being curious. I think we like certainty. You know, I think, you know, I mean, I think it's weird because a lot of humans like certainty. So I think that kind of because to be curious, you have to kind of let go of fear to a certain extent. And it's core, you know, I mean, because you're kind of like curious, like, Hey, what's, what could this mean? I'm wrong. Could this mean, you know, I cut you off there. Sorry, keep going. No, no, that's all I have. Okay. Oh, by the way, you mentioned Arthur Brooks. That's who when I said work life integration, that's who said the work life integration, quote, not David Wright. So do the Arthur. If you're listening, don't see what David broke. I mean, Arthur Brooks, David writes that David Wright is actually a retired multi time All Star third baseman for the New York mess. I know that. Look at that. Yeah. A great story about him. I, but it's an NSFWL. I tell it to you offline. Okay. I know that you that came up with him through the minor leaks. That's funny, but no, it's your, but to your point curiosity, man, like, yeah, I think we just want to, we want certainty, right, predictability, but I think to be curious takes humility, right? And if you stop being humble or well, that's another Josh Gurley beat humble and hungry, right? If you stop being humble, then I think the curiosity goes away because you think you know it all. And actually, I was just listening to this something this morning on like narcissists, right? Like, uh, this guy was saying like, you know, psychiatrists won't even see narcissists because they think they got it all figured out they don't even take the advice anyways, right? But they didn't start it. Well, they weren't born with that perspective. They got there by losing curiosity and then thinking they knew all the answers and slowly start to kind of get to this point where it's like, it doesn't matter what anyone tells you, you already know what all and have it all figured out. But I think at the record is that fear first, right? And then it closes you off or, you know, and then I can't potentially be wrong. Um, we've talked about this before, you know, it can cost you being curious and being open to certain things can cause people to throw rocks at you. But whatever. If you're at an agency and you're listening and you're like, man, I want to, I want to flip it up. I want to do BORs, right? I want to get away from quoting or whatever. Expect some, some people to be like, what are you doing, man? Or, you know, so just the way it goes. This was fun. All right. That's, that's our top 10. Take it or leave it. That's what we got. Anything else before we shut this sucker down? No, I would just say if you're listening, thank you. Appreciate all you guys, all your support, share it with a friend. If you have any like takeaways that you thought were better or cool or whatever, hear them in the comments, be good to kind of see what you guys got to say. That's all I got. I got a couple things. How see if you number one, if you have any badass producers that we need to interview, that either have a really interesting story or they do things in an interesting way, please, please, please send them our way. Number two, it's amazing how many people we have listened to the podcast or that are in our somewhat ecosystem that don't know we have a newsletter. We have a newsletter that comes out every Friday. I might be done with the max revenue letter, which we used to write on Monday, Tuesdays, TBD on that. But go subscribe to our newsletter. We give you like five news briefs and recap of the week and here's what you need to know blah, blah, blah. And then also we never ask you to like or hit subscribe or whatever on this podcast or leave us a review. Whatever platform you're on, please leave us a review of it's a podcast or hit subscribe or whatever. Like do us a favor. We don't really ask a whole lot. So that'd be great. We'd appreciate it. But yeah, with that, that's what I got. So catch you all on the next one.