Tony Robbins: How to Build a Relationship that Lasts

Thank you to Quince for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Let me tell you the seasons are changing. It's starting to be time that we can get out our denims again. We can get out our sweaters and there is no better place than Quince. So many of the things I'm constantly reaching for in my closet to layer up, dress up, dress down, come from Quince because they have very, very high quality products. I'm talking 100% Mongolian cashmere. They have silk organic cotton wool. They have those premium fabrics, but at an amazing price. Everything at Quince is actually priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands and that is because they work directly with ethical factories, hunting out the middle man. So you're paying for high quality, not brand markup. Actually just last night, Matt was telling me that he grabbed his shorts. I don't fit my clothes. I've been hitting the gym and so I need new clothes. He bought me Quince swim trunks that are really high quality. I wear them all the time when we go on the pool with the boys. I'm excited to see which he picks out from Quince for me next. Your nice khaki shorts are from Quince. Wait, the khaki that I wear like literally every day. Yep. Those are from Quince. You don't even know where your clothes are from, but if you had to guess, they're probably from Quince because I love shopping their min section as well for Matt. You can wear them in many different ways for many different seasons. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to Quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know that unplanned sent you. It's the best way to support the show. This is not being disrespectful. I hope you can feel my state. Yeah. You're not a man to you. You're about 40 just for you. My daughter has two moms. She has her mom character. She got her mom here that comes to her. She's got me. We have this unique family. I wanted to be a mother so bad and then miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage. I surrendered that and I'd never be who I am without that path. The best way to serve your children is the way you love each other. We live in a world where we make our kids number one and our kids are critical to us. But we're number one. The deepest fear everyone has. Everyone I've dealt with kings, queens, presidents, people and prisons. We all have a fear that we're not enough and that leads to a much deeper fear which is if I'm not enough I won't be loved and love is the oxygen of life. Today on unplanned we sat down with the self-help legend Tony Robbins. The billionaire, life coach, motivational speaker and philanthropist that has been helping people get their lives back on track since the 1980s and his work has impacted some of the most influential people in the world. Names like Nelson Mandela, Bill Clinton and Princess Diana. Also his wife of over 20 years sage is joining us for this interview and we get into all the unique details of their story. Like having a baby in their 50s and 60s, why their daughter has two moms and so much more all on today's episode. You've been together for over 26 years. What's your secret? How do you stay married that long? It's amazing. Love is the answer brother. I know what I have and I'm not about to mess that up. I think part of it is we're devoted to each other but we also have a mission that we're devoted to and I think it's important to have something, you know, devotion is different than just love. Yeah. devotion is like your needs are my needs not I'm going to meet your needs to make you happy or until you're not. We're both completely devoted each other devoted to our family but we also have a mission to serve as many human beings and one of the beautiful things when sage came into my life is I felt like I wasn't the only person that had that sense of caring and drive and we brought to being different qualities together and compliment each other so but every day I think to myself you know how to get so lucky I always say and I really believe I've helped tens of millions of people around the world and this is my reward you know this is my good karma this young lady here and you have a sweet four-year-old daughter together we do we do that's that's a very big deal I know that didn't come without challenges though that was a long journey tell us more about that year 26 27 27 so I met we met at 26 years old and you were 26 yes when I was twenty yes when I was 26 and I miscarried the first time when I was gosh 25 and then I never imagined it would be a 20-year journey but I miscarried time again and I you know lo and behold I found out many many years later that I have a rare genetic disorder that my body was even attacking a baby and I didn't know it and so you know this divine orchestration had another plan and its own timing I never imagined I'd be the stage of my life with a four-year-old but it's it's so beautiful and it's so for anybody that's on the journey and that wants to be apparent it's worth to endure and to trust in God's timing and to know that sometimes what appears or the experience of loss we just never know what is in store for us and our daughter was so worth the weight it's such a joy to be parents and also just I'm really passionate as well of having children later in life just because we did it and and it's such a beautiful experience you have more lived wisdom and understanding and I think you know when I think of a younger version of myself I'm so grateful that we didn't have her then because I feel like we have more to offer I mean I was pushing around 50 I was married previously as she was as well but the woman I married previously had children from two different husbands and I adopted them within my life so I was 24 25 and had a 17-year-old son instantly an 11-year-old a five-year-old and one of the way and so I thought like you know I'd raised the kids already I've been through all those stages and so I was like honey we're gonna do this you know I do this by 50 I don't want to be like 55 yeah 66 and I tell you it's the greatest gift in the world we were actually with a very famous designer when I was like 50 and we had his birthday party and he was at 60 I think six years old the time and he was just had a kid and he was going on and on about it and I remember in my mind thinking wow I can't imagine and yet now that I'm there and then we're there together there's no greater gift because I'm proud of how his father before but you just have like sage that so much more wisdom so much more insight you can live your life so differently to be able offer to your children at this stage so I got five grandchildren as well so it's like oh my goodness my daughter is older than my grandchildren that is funny okay what what is that like I mean being apparent then versus being a parent now because we're in this age of social media where dopamine hits are rooting people's you know mental health and it's really affecting people so how do you approach parenting now in this day and age well the biggest difference is having this is my wife this age is the most unique human being that I could possibly imagine we've spent 25 years your life traveling the earth helping people make differences in their lives and there's no one quite as spiritually rooted that I've ever met in her when we first met I didn't feel an attraction to her per se I saw her across the room and literally walked across the room she stood up we looked at each other's eyes and I said you're beautiful I mean I said inside beautiful wasn't a line and she didn't say anything which is last time she was quiet I think it was a soul recognition like that really was coming home and then I remember I left there my one of my friends was like she's hot and I was like hot I didn't experience that at all but still silly friends said that to you yes my security guard I'm like no I said someday I'll teach with her spiritually and I'd never said about any human and then then I was interested in a relationship at that point right and so then I've been in a relationship for a long time and I went out and I was single and we were best friends we talked till eight in the morning and I'm the phone and then I go out of dates and I'm gonna tell her every detail of my dates and she's like you she clearly don't understand women she teaches me so we start with that so they have her is the number one difference number two we don't allow our daughter there's no screen time with her at the stage there's no social media we don't have any pictures of her and social media won't even say her first name just because we want to have her own life and not tied into that so we're we feel strong about that and the container ship of just her having her own reality and not being exposed and so we're mindful of that on weekends you know we will share like a movie or a show and we're usually watching things that are like 30 years old like Little Bear Daniel Tiger there's actually programming it's called uh still water that we just discovered that has really beautiful stories and and meaningful examples it's it's really beautifully done and thoughtfully done it. You've seen the sound of music 5,000 times. Yeah, very poppins 250 times. Yeah, so she's got a good attention span Mary Poppins is kind of long yeah that is a long one. She really I think to be intentional with what children are putting into their minds and what they're processing I think is is really important as parents and of course you can't you know stop kids from being exposed life is life but in our home we're very mindful of what she's consuming. Yeah and she also because of that she's an avid reader you know she probably reads gosh maybe eight nine ten books a day. I think holy cow. Yeah well we you know read to her she just really she's studying like you know three different languages she's doing architecture she does her ballet she's gymnastics but also she has time just to be a kid just to be yeah she has a time in the day and it's just her time doing whatever she wants and so forth so she isn't just over-scheduled but we want her to learn how to learn because as you say in the world we're in right now with AI people are all worried about this because you think about it 150 years ago 80% of Americans were farmers now it's 3% we feed the world but that was plenty of time to No one thought of a job like I'm going to be a webmaster or something back then or AI something But the difference now is the speed of change the speed of change is going to be so rap It's already so rapid with AI that you see jobs disappearing right now that traditionally college students So first time high school students are more employed than college students first time in 50 years this happened right now They used to say you want a future study be a software engineer, right? We're in the right code Well, guess what now with vibe coding or all these companies If they need fewer software engineers and anyone can do a code. It's only going to get better in those areas So I think every person has got to learn how to become a creator Yeah, I mean by that is most people are stressed when you ask them how to stress they tell you about stories But it's because they're busy managing they're managing their circumstances. They're trying to make you through the day They're trying to you know earn that living But they've never designed their life and we were created by something obviously call our creator You could call it God the universe whatever you prefer and we were designed to create and so our daughter is a creator She isn't just learning other people stuff She's converting these ideas into something that she wants to create whether it's a structure an architectural structure Or it's a song or it's poetry or a drawing or something she's doing in their body to music and so that to me is the ticket is Teaching kids how to learn rapidly because you're not going to be placed by an AI Are you going to be placed by someone how to use an AI right yeah, but your life has to be more than machines and more than screens Or you won't have the emotional development. So that's what we're focused on and I think kids these days They're overstimulated. They're distracted. They're entertained every moment and so you know the energy is external And yet there's a whole world internal that nothing really compares to and so ever since she could actually sit up We call it her quiet explore time So it's her time to be with herself and every day in the afternoon for both maybe about 45 minutes She goes up to her room and she has her own time and she'll draw she'll play she'll dance But it's her time to be with herself and I think in a world today with so many screens and and just overstimulation like kids are really overstimulated so innocently and then we give them all sorts of labels and I think because they're taught that It's more sexy that the pacing cadence of they miss life Tony. I watched the the Netflix documentary that you did and I was honestly blown away I think that's it was so good. I actually lost a buddy of mine to suicide in college and Seeing that that man talks to you in the beginning and you're talking about his red shoes and you're joking around and he's Just you know clearly really considering at that point in his life ending his life It was a very powerful thing to watch. How do you have these conversations with these people? I get it's just so I mean it's fascinating to me that you're able to just like stand up there and help them get to their Other problems so quickly. What's the secret? What is it that people need a lot of questions? A first of all interesting thing that young man's name was Mattias and he did not commit suicide obviously But more importantly, I just did the director of CEO podcast about three hours and he sent in a message to thank me Yeah, it's been 10 years since I did that. Oh my goodness and said his life has never been the same and he's so great I was a surprise. They surprised me, but it was very very touching But in that same one you may have remembered there was a young woman that was in a sex cult where the parents had sex with the children was so horrific And I was in Brazil and I was doing an event a few years ago And I was in the crowd of 10,000 people and I walked by and this woman kept looking at me looking at some people you know You're fascinating to them or in some way because you're you know, you're celebrity or something in their mind But then I didn't realize she goes don't you recognize me and it was her She looked like such a different person. She wrote a book. She became a therapist. She got out of the group She got other people out of the group. So it's so beautiful to see those things answer your question. How it's A lifetime of understanding what creates meaning the quality of your life is the emotions you feel You're gonna have 10 billion dollars, but if what you feel every day is angry or sad your life is angry and sad You could have the most beautiful children the most beautiful husband or wife And they love you and you cannot feel love you can be worried all the time So are where we live emotionally we have an emotional homes where people live I'm really good at uncovering what created those emotional patterns Because there are like 4,000 words in the English language for emotions you could feel when I have a room of 15,000 people 20,000 people stadium and I'll say Right now and I'll give you as much time as you need line down the middle of the page all the emotions you feel in a week that are great and empowering And all the ones you feel are disempowering and not something you feel once in a rare while something at least once a week So it's not a once in a while once a month feeling and so I don't take long and 99% of the people you get one or two people have a hundred emotions 50 emotions out of a stadium 99% have less than a dozen emotions 5 or 6 good ones and 5 or 6 but they're the same ones They get excited and then worried and frustrated and pissed off and then you know A fearful and you see it happen again and again and again and there's a reason for that and has to do with the values We have in the belief systems we have get you to that result over and over again. So long story shortened If someone's going to commit suicide Just like if someone's doing anything they're going to give away their money. They're going to work hard They're going to move on a stranger Whenever we do we have a reason But I know there's only six reasons There are six human needs and I know that what's driving you is which of these needs are the top of your list are driving it We all the same needs, but we have two things that are different one is some people value Let's say security or certainty number one and some people want variety is number one. That's a different life Some people want to be significant more than anything else. Some of you want to be loved Which of you value most determine your direction in life? Well, if you want variety you're going this way If you want security you're going this way and direction determines destination or destiny So I know the minute I discover what's driving you I know what your problems are and what your challenges are what your opportunities are In addition to that You have a set of beliefs about how to meet those needs So if you're trying to meet your need for certainty you might eat to do it because you're freaked out You eat and all of a sudden you breathe and you calm down or you smoke a cigarette You're killing yourself. You take a breath in nice and slow and drop it out slow You calm down or you can do it by working out and you feel strong. That's a positive way to do it Or you could trust that guy is guiding you or you could say look I've been through so much in my life I always find the way you get certain you in positive ways neutral ways or negative ways But your life is directed. So once I know what's driving you and what your rules are Which is not hard to figure out very quickly I know what the problem is and I know where to take you If someone's going to commit suicide, it's an obvious one What would you have to believe to commit suicide? That there's no point in living anymore that your life is meaningless I mean like I'll be I don't want to talk too much about me right now But like I'm actually coming off of SSRIs And thank you thank you and I mean I have an amazing wife I have amazing kids And I love my life to death but the thing that kept me going was like my kids Whenever things got really dark in my life I just looked at my kids and it's like I have to be here for them The way that they love me and the way that I love them It brought and still brings a purpose in my life that I've never experienced before until becoming a parent Well I think I think anyone who becomes a parent that's God right We're programmed to love our children even if they look like lizards when they're born We think they're beautiful right They have no teeth, they don't teeth, they're fat They're doing them all to try that when you're 50 See if it works for you right But we're a program for that But the difference that in your wife is not you love your wife less It's that that love is so programmed as it is in her for your children But it's also love that you don't think it's going to go away because you've never had a teenager So it feels like certain love Her love could feel like goes away if you didn't behave effectively And or vice versa could have been both sides But one of the great gifts that you'll be able to give each other as time goes on Is to understand the best way to serve your children is the way you love each other Because we live in a world we make our kids number one and our kids are critical to us But we're number one And the reason is in sage's life her parents you know they had a relationship that was extraordinary And they had her describing if you want any than me telling them Yes, my mom and daddy had been together for 50 years And there was five of us children they fostered children And so our house was dynamic But the one thing that was just always known was that my mom and dad were first and foremost And it's not that they loved us any less I experienced tremendous love and my parents were unified You know I could never play my mom against my dad And in that unit they always took their time together They always had a date night They always had you know they traveled like they did things together And I didn't recognize like what a demonstration of love that was Because it was also an example it was a mirror to me And they still to this day You know life circumstances change and as I shared with you You know my sweet mama's been navigating dementia And at different stages of life I've just been so humbled at how enduring love And to witness my father serve my mama and take care of my mama And my mama's always such a caregiver herself to my father and our family And so you know just the poignancy of life and the beauty of life But their togetherness and in the container ship of life and love You go through everything together you know you drop down in the valleys You go to hell you go to heaven and but yet I think a lot of times in relationships People you know they hit a challenging time and they give up Because they think it's like oh my gosh the you know the dream is over The fantasies over this isn't a chanted he's or she is not who I thought them to be But my parents really were such an example to endure Like to to make it through those tough times Because when you do that as a couple you only get closer It just gets sweeter with time. It gets. more authentic, if you keep growing, if you keep growing in your state. Yeah, in your state, both in her family, you think about it. We think today, like this whole thing baby on board, that'll start in the 80s, you know, even movies changed. Movies used to be, the actresses was a child, right? That was the devil child, Rosemary's baby, right? We went to a new place where we put our children first, and that's why so many relationships are dysfunctional, because you would think that the children would feel less loved. They feel more loved because they see secure love, and they have a model that it can be done in the future, which most people don't have. So she had that experience. I really did. And that experience shapes so much at such a different level. But the other part is people think of a love relationship as, you know, just the romance and the excitement of the beginning of a relationship and life is seasons. When you think about what changed humanity from living in fear as, you know, hunter-gatherers hoping we can get enough food to survive to be able to stay, build a family, have a life, build a community, build a city, build a country. The answer is one distinction, one recognition of a pattern, 'cause that's what this is all about. If you can recognize patterns, AI, whatever it is, if you can learn to use them, you'll have no fear. Patterns show you that it's not random. When you learn how to use them, you have power. When you learn to create patterns, you become very powerful. So there's patterns in parenting. There's patterns in relationship. The pattern that changed humanity was understanding the seasons. Till we understood that, we were always in fear, because you could plant something, but three quarters of time it didn't work. - Holy cow. - Till we came up with, oh, if I plant in the spring, not any other season, it's the only time. If I do the right thing at the right time, I get the reward, but if I do the right thing at the wrong time, which three quarters of the time is the wrong time, I get nothing. Once we understood that, okay, and then I got to protect it during the summer, then I get to reap in the fall, and I better hang on to some of that for the winter. That's why we're here not living like survivalists, right? Think of your relationship as four seasons. Think of the first season as the season of just pure chemistry. Repure romance, which you've read about and everything else, where you don't even know the other person's values, but you're in love with them 'cause you got the chemistry for it, right? We all have that experience. That's about a three to five year max for most people, right? After three to five years, some of that wears off, and by the way, when you're into the chemistry of something and you have the attraction going, everything your partner does is beautiful and wonderful. But when all of a sudden you get to a point where there'll be some clashes, oh, we have different ideas about parenting. Oh, we have different ideas about economics. Oh, we have been, then all of a sudden the chemistry can disappear a little bit. And that is the testing time. Most people, that three to five, maybe seven years max season, if they don't get their needs met, they leave 'cause they think I'm in a relationship to get my needs met. The purpose of relationship is not a place to go get. The purpose of relationship place should go give, and that's what lights you up. It's like when you first meet something, you're totally in love with them, what do you wanna do? Give them everything. Giving them everything lights you up. Then, after a while, people are like, I'm not getting the same, they start measuring. It becomes a transaction. So if you get through that first season, the way you get through that first season is, you start to have a reality check that, hey, this isn't just about me feeling good. This is what's something larger that we're creating together. If you do that, you'll make it to the summer. Springtime's easy. Summer is a little more testy. Summer is, now you've got two kids, two and three years old, and you're not sleeping at night, and you're doing what you're doing. I'm up all night, or I don't know, I'm up all night. And it's like, oh, we got the podcast to do, and like, oh my God, we got the finances, and the first thing to show up here, and then there's all these other things that enter your relationship, where you start to see, oh my God, we have different needs in different ways, and she's gonna relate to your children at two and three different than you are as a man. It's just the nature of things, and she may not understand that at times, you're vice versa, right? So during that time, it becomes an exploration of, hey, I need to actually understand who I love here, and begin to appreciate the differences instead of being frustrated by the differences. To know those differences have a higher purpose in our evolution together, 'cause usually you pick someone who you feel is just like you are like how you wanna be when you're in chemistry, but then you discover they aren't exactly like you, 'cause we're different species, and so you have to learn how to communicate and how to connect. If you make it through that stage, which is usually for most people they don't, they don't get to that stage, or leave that stage till mid 40s or 50s, most people, 'cause they have to live enough life. They have to go through these tests, these ups and downs, and sometimes there are things in the middle like somebody dies, or a family member dies, or you lose your job, or COVID comes, real testing periods. If at those times you turn on each other, it's gonna end. Now, most people leave the romance. My needs aren't met, they leave, within those three to five years, or they get married and leave. Most people then, if they have, they may have there, they leave a next one, 'cause it's the toughest season. It's the summer season. If you make it through it, the transition is, life's no longer about me, it's about we. Where all of a sudden, you just think about your needs whether you're met or not, or your children, it's like, this is what we're here for. We're here for a hyperpush together. And now you enter a season we would call fall, where fall, things flow. It's just, it's a different level of love. It's a love that's in a matter of-- - You want each other's happiness. You know, I just, he wants my happiness, I want his happiness. - That's beautiful. - It's really, it's so natural. And it's effortless, 'cause you get, I think the gift of, you know, staying in a relationship for such a period of time, and you enter into full or fall, and you go through these seasons is, you get over yourself. You know, you get over yourself. You get over your conditioning, you get over your expectations, and it's just like, wow, I love this human. You know what I mean, like I, like, I mean, how many years have you two been together now? - Seven years. - Seven years. - Seven years, seven years. But how long before that? - So the decade this summer, yeah, nine and a half, coming up on a decade, it's good. - Okay, yeah. - You're heading through that other side. - That's right. - You're entering into full. - As you get in that season, though, the going through the tough times, which nobody wants to go through. - Yes, right. - Let me bring that back to the question. And like, what do you, how do you help people? - Yeah. - The meaning of your life determines how you feel. The meaning is based on the narrative you've created. I can talk to somebody and ask them how they met, and we know where their relationship is by the way they tell their origin story. You can see whether there's ones ruling their eyes, or they're both into it, everything else. It's very easy to see where someone is in their life in that area. So the ultimate narrative is this. If you look at all the stories of humanity, and you study mythology and religion, right, as Joseph Campbell did, if you're familiar with his work, the oldest story of humanity is the hero's journey. So the hero's journey is understanding in a relationship and a person's life that they're feeling suicidal or they're feeling frustrated for them is the most important understanding. So think of it this way. What starts that journey is you have a normal life, it seems pretty good, or it even seems great. And then something that they call the call to adventure, something happens that jolt you. - Just right. - Now it doesn't sound like a call to adventure. It sounds like extreme stress. It sounds like you're home burned down. Which happened to me 25 years ago here in California. I was here a year ago helping people because it would happen, right? So your home burns down, or you're robbed, or somebody your family gets diagnosed with a tumor, or COVID shuts down your business, and you were like, this was my whole life, or you lose your job, or somebody you found to get sick. All everyone on earth is gonna go through extreme stress. I don't care how much you love God. I don't care how intelligent you are. I don't care how rich you are. No one escapes it. The question is, do you stress or stress use you? And one of the differences that'll help you to do that is if you understand this hero's journey, 'cause if you were willing to keep going, I'd say you're going through how keep going. - Yeah. - You will get lessons, you will get experiences, you will do three things if you keep going with extreme stress. So one, figure out how strong you really are together. 'Cause that third season, problems happen, but it's all solved together versus it's your fault, or your fault, or why didn't you do that? And none of that stuff exists, you're completely unified. So even the tough times are beautiful, and the tough times bring you together much closer than just a good times. When things go well, people party. When things go poorly, people ponder. It was out of the pondering, get the differences. So what does that hero's journey look like? Well, you push through, you're gonna find out a strong you are. Second, you're gonna find out who your real friends are. Not your Facebook friends. - Yeah. - And thirdly, you'll get an immunity to future stress because when you've been through such intense stress, it's like by contrast, things are easy now that used to be hard. But that call to adventure looks like this. I use Dorothy. Who's your boss? Name of the star? - Oh yeah. - Where's Peter Kay? - We actually started dating while we were in a production of that show. - I'm with you. - I'm serious. - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah. - Well, we just saw it again at the sphere in Las Vegas. - Oh my goodness. - We thought that. - We thought that. - You have to go see it. - That's cool. - But just remind you because the story most people know. So that'll help you think about it. So the call to adventure is because she has a normal black and white life, right? It's pretty good. Her big upset is, her dog bit somebody and the woman wants to take her dog away from her. She thinks that's the end of the world. And life wants you to grow up. So it doesn't care about your little petty stuff. It's time for to expand. So she resists it. She resists all the changes that are going to put on. So life sends in a hurricane, right? A cyclone. And what does it do? It separates it from everything she knows. It looks like a debt. Rips her from her life. Takes her to a different place. Now, when you get the different place, you have no choice, but you meet new people. New mentors, right? You have new experiences and you go on a journey. And there's a point when you commit to that journey where there's no going back. And on that journey, you're gonna have some traumas. You're gonna have some challenges. You're gonna have some trials and tribulations. And you're gonna learn over time how to defeat the dragon or whatever it stopped you in her case, right? She meets the 10 men. They all have their needs. She thinks you're gonna help them. Go see the wizard vies. She's gonna solve it all, right? And they go on the journey. And what's happening? We could switch to the West as coming and trying to destroy them. And she goes there and also won't help her. Remember all this stuff. But in the end, she becomes more. They all be good. come more, right? The strong man realized he does have a brain. The 10 man does have the heart. Yes, I have courage. Courage is mean I was afraid. So I went through all this with Dorothy and helped her, right? And Dorothy realized it's all the powers inside of going home was always at my feet. And she comes home. And when she comes home, she's a different person. She's more. And because she's more, she has something to give. She's the hero of her own life. So my house burns down. I had it. I was sage and I both gave about six million dollars to people are locally because I was here when I lived here, but all these people that literally they had 14-day passes to live in a hotel like what are we going to do? So we worked a bunch of organizations here. But the biggest thing is we had to give people a narrative. So I shared them on my home burned down. It was before your pictures were in the cloud. Everything I existed of my life was gone burnt to the ground. But my family survived, which is all that matters. So I showed my family that's what we're going to focus on. But then what happened? I moved. So I had to go to a new place where I met new people. I met some new mentors. I developed new skills. I went on a completely different path that changed my life that I wouldn't be this woman without. And I became your home own life. By the way, when you do that and come back, you have something to share. And then when you think it's all done, it starts again. You'll have another new challenge that comes. But in between you'll have a word time. And during that time, you have a good time. So the person that's one commit suicide thinks this is the end when it's actually a called adventure. You're at the edge of being called to a different level. The two of you, you'll get to that third level. I really believe I can feel the conviction you have for each other on the old times. Your question that's called being human. But if you make it through that third level, you get to the final step in later in life. And that is a level of love that is beyond describing. It is where you realize there is a limit to this thing called life and see a treasure every moment in a different level. It's different. Think about spring time zero to 21. You think you're invincible. Everything's great. 22 to 42 summertime. It's a frothy time for most people. It's the most difficult time in their life because you're trying to figure out who you are, who we are, who kids are, how we do it, all that stuff. Kind of prove yourself, trying to achieve something. If you work hard in those first two seasons, you'll make it to fall. You know, 44 to 64 is usually the greatest growth period of your life that you can do things with your pinky that you couldn't do before working 20 hours a day. You have a long term relationships, but 65 to 85 to 105 to 125, which is the oldest humans stage. I'm now in about to be 66. It's the best season of all. If you grew doing this with the seasons, because now like you have so much to give and they're, you're not trying to prove yourself to me. You know who that you are, you know, you lived it for 40 years, 50 years, 60 years. You have the loves of your life. You have the dear friends and business relationships and friendships for 40 or 50 years. You can do more with the pinky than you did full time. So those seasons in a relationship, that season, final season is one of you's going to pass. And it's where you don't want it to happen. It's those relationships you see that chokes me up that, like, her mommy and daddy, right? Or like, we are aware. At some point, one's going to go and neither one wants to go. And oftentimes I remember I was with a gentleman, a very famous gentleman decades ago. He was in his 90s and he died his wife died two days later. And I've seen that so many times, like, they don't, you don't want to be here anymore without them. You want to reunite and whatever we think the next level of this experience of life is, you know, the next dimension of it. So I hope it'd be helpful to your listeners and for yourselves to think about each season has its own unique challenges. But the secret is to go from focused on self and what I mean by needs to focus on we instead of the end. It's going from do I get my needs met and control to contribution. It's from focus on self to focus on spirit. You know, those are the things that cause us to evolve as human beings. Yeah, you talk about some of those like seasons of challenges like in a marriage. And I imagine your journey to parenthood together was not at all what you would have written down as like idyllic or as like what you would have maybe hoped for early on before you had entered that stage. And we also just recently went through a second trimester loss. So a part of me relates to the part of your story so deeply about miscarriage. And I'm sure a lot of people listening have joined our podcast and sharing about our miscarriage that would also be really interested in talking about that season because you were in that season for a while. You said like almost 20 years. And we're in that season. And I know a lot of people listening are too. Like I guess my first question about that is, how did that season of recurring miscarriage affect your marriage? Oh my gosh. Well, I suppose, you know, it's the context. It was our, it was humbling. It was, you know, their disappointments and the loss and also longing to be a mother. I tell you what happened for myself is it came from I want to be a mother. And I got to the point where I actually didn't think that that was possible. And so there were so much surrender that I let it go. I let it go. And then I recognize that gosh, this isn't just about me wanting to be a mother. I felt, I felt called. I felt called. And it came from a different place. It came from a different place. And it was a little scary city and fear. It wasn't, it wasn't about me. The first chapter where it was most painful is like, I want to be a mom. I want to be a mother so bad. And then through, you know, miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage. And I, you know, just, I surrendered that. I surrendered that. And I was like, okay, well, you know, our life passed and we were traveling and we were traveling at that time close to gosh, I mean, you know, around the world twice in a year on average, 265 days of the year we were traveling on the road and with events. And then I was like, okay. And I recognize that mothering is a quality. It's love. It's nourishment. And so I started to focus on that. I started to focus on all the aspects that I already was before I was a mother. And that was healing for me. That was healing for me. And surrendering, you know, in my, I know mind what I wanted or what I felt my life should be. That was, that was my call to adventure. That was my call to adventure. And I'd never be who I am without that path. I'd never be the mother I am without that path. It's so schooled me and taught me so much. And, and faith, you know, like a deeper level of faith. And we went through, then I started, a friend of mine was going through IVF. And she introduced me. We would never have our daughter if it wasn't for her. Heidi. And I, you know, we went through cycle after cycle after cycle. Seven years. Seven years. Two to three times a year. I'm holding her hand in every one of these surgeries. I mean, it was, it was brutal. And then the conflict became, he didn't want me to do it anymore because he was worried about my health. Oh my goodness. About my well being. And yet, I so wanted to, I was like, I just, I felt it in me. I really, at that point, I was like, I, I really felt that it was going to happen. And I think through creativity, I think for love, through love, and I think, who's ever for your listeners that are out there and on that path, it's just something to hold dear to your heart. And it's something to surrender and to trust in a divine intelligence larger than ourselves. And sometimes like, I don't know, life begins every moment, you know? And I think that that's what it really schooled me is. Sometimes it's like a moment in time or something painful. It's that moment. It's not going to be forever. You know, it's not going to be forever. Life keeps evolving. And life keeps you keep growing. And we lived it. You became a moment to everybody around you, you know? I think that was what it really schooled me is that, like, like, mother energy. It's love. It's our nature to nourish, to care for life. And I really expanded that in me because before as a younger woman, I was wanting, like I was trying to control it. And I was tightening because, and I was, I was disappointed and I was frustrated and I was sad. And I was going to that cycle of, of my own disappointments. And at that stage, I wasn't feeling fulfilled in life itself because I was closed, rather than opening to what life was offering me in the moment, which my life was blessed. And at times, I missed that. I missed that because I was so focused on what life wasn't giving me. Yeah. So what piece of advice would you give to a woman who is in that place right now? It feels like they're waiting for this stage and something's supposed to happen that's not happening. Yes. Well, I can only share, I mean, it's, it sounds right to say that, you know, to have faith and, and, and to trust in life's process. But that's really what really screwed me is I, you know, I fell in love with what is, I fell in love with life. I fell in love with our life and found such enrichment. You know, you're, you're a mama. You know, you have beautiful children. And my mind was at a certain stage, so focused on what wasn't happening, happening that I thought should happen. And, you know, Byron Katie, who's a very dear friend of ours, she always says, you know, you don't have to accept what is, but life is just kinder and saner when we do. It's kinder and saner when we do. I think it's also remembering that there's another way, you know, my first marriage, I, you know, three of my kids were adopted, you know, adopted in my life. There was no demonstrating them in my blood child in terms of my love for them whatsoever. And so, you know, that still becomes another option, but maybe you can share the miracle of what happened for us. And, and that's just once again, like through creativity and love and God's grace, you know, we have a, we had a surrogate that ended up being the mother of our child. And, through such a level of friendship and such a level of creativity in such a level of willingness. I think that's just what's so beautiful, and to really look 100 feet above, 'cause we miss when we're in our pain. I'll speak for myself when I was in my pain, or in what I thought life should be, I missed. I missed the miracle. That was already here right in front of me. And also just trust in, you know, it was a divine orchestration, you and I woke up. My body's being breathed, your body's being breathed. That's a miracle. Like that's a freaking miracle. And we miss that miracle. We miss that miracle. But there's a divine wisdom inside of our bodies that's literally breathing our existence that blows my mind. And so trust in that, trust in that. 'Cause after all these years, I never imagined I'd be 47 years old, having a baby, and I'm so grateful. And it was so worth the wait. - And the piece also that's part of this is, even when we've decided we've been through by the effort of everything else and in our life was so full. - It was. - He's like, "Where does a baby fit here?" And honey, little fit, but she couldn't imagine 'cause our life was insanely full, it still is. But what was interesting was, and then who do you trust to carry your baby? Like some stranger is gonna, you know, what's happening on the woods? And there was someone in our life that lived with us for 12 years and was our right arm for everything. And both love is different traveling earth with us. And she had it, that had it happen. - Yes, well, you know, it was, it was a happening. It was an unfoldment. I never asked her. She never, it was- - It was, it was. - It was, it was, it was. - Yes, a very dear friend of ours, Katie, she said, "I see it, I can feel it, this is destiny." And so, you know, sometimes like the unexpectedness of a mirror outside of ourselves can show us the way or show us a broader vision than what my own mind could preserve. - She came to you and said, "I want to do this for you guys." Is that how it happened? - You know, it was a very dear friend of ours. - It was a very dear friend of ours. - Yes, I see this. Oh my goodness. A dear friend of ours, a sister who's just an amazing woman. She was just so passionate. And so, yeah, it's just one of those, you know, - It was a damn wonderful day. - It was just evolved under conversation. And at first it was what? But if it wasn't like a stranger, it's somebody that we love, we travel the earth with, dear to your friend, 12 years, right? So 10 years. But it was amazing, your name's Mary. And what's so amazing was then, you know, we tried and it didn't work. And then- - So you began that journey all over again. And then we tried again, and it didn't work. - Or it didn't happen and so- - But then COVID hit. - Yes. - And the COVID hit was an interesting thing. It's all of a sudden, we were not traveling. I was used to stadiums, all the stadiums are saying you put 100 people on a stadium, 15,000 people. So I built this studio and we found a way to reach people from this digital studio around the world. And we spent it seeing 15,000 people. We had 50,000 people. And then a million people in a bit for multiple days. It's like, so we could be home. And so she had a different, she goes, my instincts are, we try it again. I woke up one morning and it wasn't like, let's do it. I woke up one morning and I just felt like my soul knew. I knew, like it was one of the most certain clear things that I knew to be and I knew that it was going to, that we were going to be parents. And this was so. This is so. - And what? - And also, you know, just iteration. And trying, you know, we had a particular doctor that we were working with and somebody introduced us to an amazing organization in Colorado. And just impeccable, these amazing. And honestly, she wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them. So, you know, just not giving up. Not giving up on your dream. Not giving up on what's possible. Not closing the door. And I think that's probably the biggest lesson that that schooled me is just, you know, life's timing has a rhythm and has its seasons as Tony just shared. And trust in something larger than yourself. And also, along the path, appreciate and fall in love with what is 'cause there's miracles and love all around us. And I think, and enjoy that, you know, enjoy that. - You know, the Mary who's carried our baby when she was coming to there, then there was the uncertainty of, as she ever going to see this child again. And she's carried him and she's been family and friends and everything else. And Sage and I, our hearts were open and we talked about it and thought about it a lot and said, you know, I'm, you know, much older. You know, Sage is, you know, 13 years younger than me and Mary's another 10 years younger. And it's like, if something happened to our child, we want her to be able to be the last one on what something happened and everything else. - Sometimes, many times often, we're traveling, you know, to go in an event. - But as a result of that, what's happened is the state of Florida. I said, you know, I want her to feel, if you do, honey, like she's part of this and the state of Florida allows you to have three parents. - Wow. - So we literally went before a judge during COVID and the lawyers told us, first of all, they spent six months interviewing everybody, you know, deep psychological research. Who are you? - Oh my goodness. - Oh my goodness. - That most intense piece, which I'm glad they do. - They do that on the path of surrogacy. - Yeah, yes, surrogacy. - Whatever that looks like. - But in this particular case, and that wasn't just surrogacy for this situation. And the judge, the lawyer told us, now the judge, he's not gonna make a decision. She's not gonna make a decision today. It's usually, you'll tell you two, three weeks afterwards. And it was during COVID, so we saw the judge on screen, came on and we're holding our little one and three of us are there. And the woman judge came on and she looked at us and there was this pause and she looked at you, and she dropped her glass down, she looked, and then she smiled. - She's a colleague. - Mary was really worried. It was like, what's gonna happen? Is this gonna prove her not and everything else? And there was a certain amount of it. And she goes, I don't ever say this, but this is already a family. - Oh. - Because I feel you. - I feel your love. - That is beautiful. - For each other, for your little one, this is beautiful. This is a family. I'm gonna tell you, we got some questions and things that you do with it, but she goes, I'm just telling you right now, I'm gonna prove this. It was, wow, it was God given. So our daughter has two moms. She has her mom carried her and she got her mom here that loves her and she comes to her and she's got me. And so she goes, yeah, I got two moms and one dad. - And Mary, with your daughter right now, while you guys are here doing press in LA. - That's right. - Okay, that's so cool. - Because you wanna drive her out of this family. It's a short trip back and forth for her body, right? - She does come with us most of the time on pieces, but then Mary's with her, or we switch off each other. - And whose idea was the three parents thing? That's really, that's really-- - Came between the two of us just brainstorming. And then we found out that there was a way to do it legally. And also it was like when her to be able to go to the hospital to have authority and make something that happens where it started with her. Also then, so we have this unique family, these modern families that have come together and we all love each other and support each other in every way possible we can. - And I never imagined that I think also, part of that possibility was my parents own journey and us growing up in a home that had the diversity of foster children and you know, these children would come into our homes and my parents would say, this is your brother and sister, you shared your room, you shared your toys, you shared your life with them. And I had no clue of the impact of that and the mirror of that and the model of that to love beyond the unit. It's chosen family, you know, it's an expanding the view of family and my parents really were such an amazing, we were raised with different ethnicities in our home and it really was such a rich environment growing up and I see that gratuitousness of life coming full circle now that we have a chosen family. That's so powerful. - Oh good. - Please have fun. - I was gonna say to something that stood out that you said earlier, talking about when you guys first met, you said it felt like coming home. - Yes. - That is so beautiful and it just really stuck out to me and it kind of sparks the question in my mind of like, is this love at first sight that you guys experienced or do you describe it as something different? - There was a spiritual connection in first presence 'cause, you know, I'm tall and hairy and she's used to date small guys accordingly and my view of what a woman would be didn't match with she was the most beautiful woman in the world but then I give you whatever conditioning has been, right? So my most small and dark and not blonde hair and all this weird things. And so I didn't think the connection was so bizarre. - You know what I mean, you were just saying, yeah. - No, but I mean different. Weird because I look out for the beauty that I have beside me. But then what happens is, you know, you fall in love and then all that stuff changes. None of that stuff matters anymore and we were friends first which is what I really encourage people to do. We were best friends first and so it's like, sometimes people have a peak experience of their intimate and then where they go from there but our relationship was built on such a deep foundation that we could have everything. And then when the intimacy returned on as well, it just went through the roof, you know, so that's there. So I don't know, I would say it's first recognition. - Recognition. - It was like, it was almost like-- - More than a recognition, more than attraction and it'd be unique. - First of all, it's so unique the way that you parent together with your surrogate and how you legally are a family together. That is really, really neat. - I don't call a surrogate honestly. - Oh yeah, yeah. - Yes, but, yeah. - There's mama right here and there's mama. - And there's daddy, right? And now she has those experiences. - Yeah, how does your daughter like call you? - Well, my daughter calls me mom and mama and you know, I think it's interesting. It's been an unfolding like it wasn't something that we decided upon. It's something she decided. She calls her mommy, he's daddy. And I think you know, like we all have different qualities of an expression and my mom and dad just always say, "Honey, Bonnie Pro, you're a product of love." That's what he'd always say to me. And I didn't really understand and now I see our daughter and I'm like, wow, she's a product of love and she's surrounded by love. That's really all. - She's a loving soul. - She's such a dear. - It's such a loving heart. It's ridiculous. She's all heart, you know. She meets somebody, hugs them, loves on them. She's, well, conscious about who somebody is. She's very energetic, but when she gets who they are, like she has her best friends, She's known since she was five or four months six months. - Four months of, yeah. - And I'm like, this is like a love affair between the two. - They just adore whether she's like, I loved you like my sister. They just adore one another. - Yeah. - I saw a social media clip. I wanted to congratulate you 'cause in the clip you were talking about how recently you became a billionaire. I mean a billionaire, I apologize, billionaire. And I was thinking it must be hard to have that much success and not like spoil the crap out of your kid. Because you probably love the heck out of her and then you have all these resources. Like how do you, you know, you had a rough upbringing. But now your daughter, from what it sounds like is having a pretty awesome upbringing. (laughing) But the rough upbringing you had made you the man you are today. - Sure. - So how do you approach that with your daughter? - I think you're gonna decide what we, together, as parents decide what's the most important thing. And to me, and to say, the most important thing is that, she realizes that life is not here for her to get life, to her to give something to give. I believe that the people that are the happy humans, the people that found something to care about more than themselves to serve. We have a mission besides our love affair of who we are. We have a love affair of serving our daughter, our family, the world. And so getting her to understand that and be connected to that and understand your sense of responsibility. And sage is incredible at talking to her like she's an adult and saying, this is what we're doing. This is why we're doing it, honey. And she's super warm, super connected. But she understands everything is a choice. And we make sure that, you know, you don't wanna do that. And then the problem then, mom doesn't have to, you have this party time or this other time. Everything is a choice where she makes the choice. So she has autonomy and she makes decisions at four and a half years old that are really unique. - And she has, but then, you have to be aware of just the level of abundance is insane. I, you know, we stated this house, which is 35,000 square feet. We live in a 25,000 square foot home. And my daughter actually said to me one day, 'cause we stayed here for two weeks. She goes, "Daddy, how come we don't live in a big house?" (laughing) Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, oh my goodness. But the grounding is in her heart and her soul. The grounding is her sense of service. Her grounding is her sense of responsibility. And I get an unbelievable credit to sage in this area because she has all of this at a level of, you know, I do it too, but she's really all over it, making sure that our daughter is grounded. - And that groundedness is, I really believe that we're all here to be useful humans. There's enough useless humans on them. And I'll tell her that. I'm not counting this. Well, it doesn't need another useless human. I'm like, we're meant to be useful. And so she's four years old, she makes her bed. She takes the laundry out. She sets her table. She clears the table. The other day, she was cute, 'cause she was clearing the plate and the garbage. And she was like, "Mom, it's stinky." And I said, "Well, mom does that. I clear the plate." I said, "It doesn't smell good." I said, "If I do it, you can do it. You do it." You know, I think that's reality. And so I think sometimes we come from, we've over corrected. You know, we've over corrected as a society that kind of the helicopter parents have wanting to protect and not cause our children to contribute to life. And so I'm very aware of that, very aware of that. And also just the notion of, you know, whatever toy she has, if she's not using them, we go and bless other people's life. And so that blessedness and that fortuitousness. But you know, it's something that I'm conscious of every day in keeping her grounded in a really big world. But I think the principles of that, you know, my parents taught me to work. It wasn't so much about education. My father had a grade six education. My mother had a grade 10 education. And but they taught me to work. They taught me to be very useful. And I'm grateful for that humble upbringing, 'cause it really schooled me. And I can see that very much bestowed upon our daughter. - And you know, your kids don't do what you say. They watch what you do. - They really do. - And this lady here, and I both have a level of work. I think that most people would never dream of on not exaggerating that. I've tried to hurt, not hurt work like that, but that's like, killing cattle black, right? So we both do that, but she sees that. She experienced it and we explained to her why we're doing it. And it's like, well, why do we gotta do that? And it's like, we're here to serve, honey. You know, this is what we do. You know, you live in this environment because of our service to people. And so she's even though she's four and a half, she's already begun to understand those elements and those dynamics. And then it's just keep it grounded, right? - How do you guys manage work-life balance? How do you also manage working together too? 'Cause that's not easy being married and working with your spouse. - I think that's the easiest part. - Oh, it is, it's the easiest part. And at the beginning, you know, we found our way, but it's a joy to work together. I think as well, like I'm sure like the two of you, you know, you have different gifts. We have different gifts. And I'm not who he is, he's not who I am. And I think when you recognize that, you know, and you'd both, we look at his like currency, you know, like it's like, he is his puzzle piece. I have my puzzle piece and you come together and- - And we respect and love each other's puzzle piece. You know, that's there, you know. It's different, different elements. And we have different kind of division of responsibility to a certain extent that we didn't just put in stone and evolve and it's just clear that each of us have different gifts in each area, and we prosper in that way to support each other and support the family. But I can't imagine that working with my wife 'cause it's the most enjoyable human I could be with, so I wouldn't want to be with her 24 hours a day. When I hear a couple saying, you know, I want to tear her eyes out, we've had those moments. - Totally. - Well, let's see an example of one of those moments. (laughing) - I remember one time, early, early on, we used to do QVC and it was before like iPads or iPhones or something and I was like packing up and we were like heading out and we were going somewhere and he came in and he was really passionate. Looking for, he used to have this black RPM journal, his black journal that he always wrote in and he was like, where's my black journal? And I'm like, what on earth? Like, you show me where my panties are. I'll show you where your black journal is. What the heck? But we would, you know what I mean? You grow up. - And you grow up. - And you grow up. Like we really, I actually cracked them up at that moment. But you know, you love one another and you break the patterns. - You break the pattern, but you have your moments of course you drive each other crazy. That's like what do you mean? But you get over that. - Was that hard? - The time goes by, the things that you drive you crazy, you start to drive. - You start to appreciate. - You start to adore. - Yes, completely. - Was it also hard coming from previous relationships and then learning to then live together and learning to navigate your relationship? - No, I think there's just so much love there. I don't think so. I think the biggest challenge was Sage came from a very small and tight community. She never traveled anywhere. She had extreme motion sickness, which I didn't know. And then next thing you know, I'm just your motion. She's on a plane to train a helicopter every day and she was throwing up on the way up, on the way down. - Oh gosh. - You were through nine years of that, taking her every doctor, every healer, every everything. And finally got healed. But that was probably the most stressful part of our life 'cause I was feeling like as God making me, I'm gonna pick my mission or pick me one more life. I wanna be with her. And she wanna think God wanted to be with me. She was incredibly terrible during those times. But it was painful. - That's great. - It was young. You know, how did you feel that? - Oh my word, you know, that's a long story, but loads of grace and once again, not giving up. - Yeah. - And you know, trying different things. But at this stage, you know, I traveled very differently. - Oh yeah. - But I think also, I think, you know, Tony mentioned something earlier like the differences. Like we have so many things that compliment, but Tony has much more external energy. I have more internal energy. But you know, I think we come together to mirror. You know, like I've claimed so much more of him. He's claimed so much more of me. I think that's the real purpose of love and relationship. It's like discovering our different parts and one another. And I think we're mirroring and reflecting our different parts. And it's like you start to, I'm sure, because of the two of your relationship and then continue of your relationship. You've grown because of him. You've grown because of her. And we've experienced that. And I think that's the beauty of love. I think that's the beauty of love. - That's the thing in relationship. Oftentimes you're attracted to someone because they have qualities that you're attracted to, you think are different than you. But they're actually part of you, you've just disidentified with them because early in your life, you're shaped by whoever's love you want most. So you're brand new baby, you're open to anything, right? But then you learn I gotta be a certain way to be loved. I have to be quiet or I have to be successful or I have to never give up or after. And so whoever's the greatest source of love, meaning I'm sure you love both your parents, but who's parent, which one of your parents did you crave the love of most? Happy? - We had this conversation last night. - You're doing good, we're doing good. - We're researching your stuff. And I think we had different answers. I was saying my dad probably, and you said your mom. - I think it's my mom. - Yeah. - And so who did you have to be for your mom? - Oh gosh. Okay. - No, no. - Just say it on top of your ex. - Okay. I just had to be perfect. I had to like perform. I had to be like there was high expectations. You know, like I didn't want to f it up. - Yes. And who could you never be? - Oh gosh. I'm scared. I guess it was hard to be that person. You know? - That's right, but are there some big part of you still today? Do you still strive in those areas? - Yeah. - Yeah, 'cause it created your model of the world. for you with your dad, who did you have to be for your dad? - I think I had to be strong. - Okay, what else did you have to be? - I haven't thought about this. - You've got to the top of your eye, try not to filter in just like first cut reaction. I had to be strong, I had to be. - Had to be successful, like the best. - Yes, and so look, two people have to be the best to come together and put back out there. And by the way, do you still have those drives? - Sometimes, yes. - The answer's yes, right? I'm making up it's not the two of you let's say somebody is really they powers they step in and they take charge And they make shit happen and the other partner goes wow that's inspiring to see them do that. They take over and make it happen, right? Why do they like that that part exists in them But it's disidentified with because it wasn't an alignment with the model of the world that their parents wanted them to be But you unconsciously move towards it like why do you certain like certain people so unconsciously you want more of that So in a relationship you feel that attraction, but the same things you ever have seen this in a previous relationship The same things that you really liked in the relationship after well piss you off like why does he always have to take the room Why can't he shut the hell up? Why is he always loud or why is she always thinking this but the very things you like the reason You don't like them anymore is because you've never claimed them for yourself So now what used to be something you liked and unconsciously you liked in them because it was a call for you to find that part of yourself If you don't find that part of yourself now you start to despise it and that's where a lot of relationships end Do you mean when you used to think that I was quiet? That's what you need to Okay, that hasn't happened yet They used to think I was quiet too He was working on that I think it was spontaneity. I feel like a lot of people are like attracted to spontaneity Yes, like when you're dating like this is so fun and exciting and then you're married You're like why can't you just get a calendar? Yeah, put it on there We move from Missouri to Hawaii after a year no a six was it six months of thing together a year and a half together We move that because I'm sponsored. I'm spontaneous. I was like let's get out of here Yeah, sick of these cornfields. Let's go some more cool. That was really fun. It's also why I was like So I totally relate to that there's some part of spontaneity that's in you that is not fully developed Mm-hmm And if you don't appreciate develop more in yourself in the future, you can be annoyed by his spontaneity And I admire Abby's confidence. She is like so sure of herself. She she does true Like she truly does not care about their people think like we've had this conversation before where if someone Like if I'm meeting you people. I want them to like me. I want everyone to like me I I don't know why I don't know if it's has something to do with us Big entertainers and having an entertainer background, but like with her She truly will think about if someone doesn't like vibe well. She thinks it's something wrong with them Not with her and I wish I was that way like I don't know But by the way, so you at this stage is like you appreciate that yeah at some point you're gonna have to find that inside yourself Or you're presented in her gosh. How do you find that inside yourself? Well, let's take what's the quality and what's the quality in him that you've been attracted to spontaneous. Okay, great. So where are you spontaneous? I feel like I lost a lot of it But with two children and everything else it starts to feel that way so but but let me ask this question Where could you be more spontaneous? Where would bring more joy to your life? More love or more fun I feel like we can be more spontaneous with date nights nice. That's nice. Yeah So if you initiate those and you are the initiator of them now you may want him to do it as well and understand that But if you initiate those and you do it because you want to because you're identifying hey, I am spontaneous Then you actually feel more attracted to him. Okay. Yes, and then if he looks at those qualities in you And he takes more of those on and starts saying yeah, that's in there. Don't tell myself. It's not in there Just because I haven't expressed it just because I've always tried to please everybody and part of it is You know, you're would you say you're through your 27? 27. We're both 27 years old This is not being disrespectful. Yeah. Yeah When I was 27 I thought I was a man. You're not a man. Do you're about 40? Maybe 50, 60 keeps getting better. Like, uh, truly When anybody is your ownership of yourself will increase as you confront Difficult times in difficult situations including the ones together right where you don't retreat Where you still find the way to move forward where you find a way to serve something more than yourself That's what it means to be a man a man would die for his country for his family for his children, right? Without hesitancy. Yeah that quality of a man not I'm here to get what I want if I don't get it I'm a pissy or I'm sad or I feel sorry for myself or I'm at it you It's like gradualing that place where you begin to realize no life is about what I'm here to bring Yeah, and the more that happens for you and part of that and it's not being disrespectful anyway I'm sure you can tell me from it just it takes time. It's less like it's a It's an experience that you need to uncover. You just don't have those experiences yet But life's gonna give them to you because you're gonna get calls, right? The call to adventure won't feel like adventure But if you don't hesitate and you go on it and you immerse yourself and you learn those new skills And you've slay your own dragons You'll be the hero at a different level and then you'll have more to give her more to give your your kids when you said You know, I stick around for my kids I wouldn't feel very good to her. No that wasn't that was being honest But at the same time what is that? I want her to know He's only saying that because he's 27 years old and because there are times when feels uncertain with your confidence and certainty That he's enough And so underneath that he's always enough for these kids because they can't say squat Two and three years old and they're not gonna leave me But I said because you've never had teenagers. So it's not that he loves you less It's there's an unconscious fear in everybody that maybe I'm not enough the deepest fear everyone has Everyone I've dealt with kings, queens, prisons, countries People in prisons are you every level you imagine we all have a fear that we're not enough at some point for those we love most Not funny enough not smart enough not strong enough not rich enough not tell enough not something enough And that leads to a much deeper fear which is if I'm not enough, I won't be loved And love is the oxygen of life So what most of us do is is the thing you got to be careful of both of you as a trap Is we go to love that is certain love certain love is our children That's why people go to their kids and they sublimate and they cost their own relationship Right as opposed to uncertain love which actually creates passion Because there's no passion in what's absolutely certain All passion is found in the realm of uncertainty. Yeah, surprise those elements, right? So as you both grow it isn't him because I I was in your shoes as the woman I'd be thinking yeah great It was my kids. What do you know they love me? And I'm trying to think the same That what he's really saying is I'm uncertain in this about you for him not him for you And that will grow as you both go through things together and come closer together versus further apart And then they'll be a point where there'll be no question That it's you Right and that that he'll grow into that and you can also grow into that I don't know where your head's at in those areas, but you're gonna have places at times Even though you have that certainty he's talking about It'll be places where you don't have that certainty at some point or your biochemistry won't allow you to have that certainty, right? You're going through things that no man will ever understand But you go through in a 30-day period you would never understand the biochemical storms of them go through much less having children Take away to all those pieces. I'm scared It's a way to your body. It's a way to your body. Oh no, life only gets better Even with all of it life only gets better with age But we just got some individual marriage. Yeah, that's really yeah I love the counseling session. That was helpful. That was good. That was really really good I don't think about that for a long time like the thought of like You start to dislike the thing that once attracted you because you have lost touch with that in yourself Or you haven't grown that but never thought about that. Yeah, I see the pattern So long as I can't tell you both of you individually like apart from each other both said and we're talking about marriage and love It gets better. You both said the same thing not knowing that each other has said the same thing And I think that is so refreshing because we are just like just now leaving that like newlywed stage where Especially because we got married so young and your high school sweethearts. Yeah, so many people that had been married Many more years in us were like just wait like I know it's all rainbows and butterflies now But just wait and I think that they had good intentions saying like you know life is going to get harder for you and therefore Marit like everything else just get harder in places, but it'll also get better Right, and then it won't be harder, right? You have to grow through it You grow through it and you come up with like I remember we were going to well, we were you know We just miscarried and we were going through a lawsuit and we were both so stressed and we were speaking in a way that was Unlike ourselves and I was being harsh and intense and it felt like that from him And we had a moment. We were in the kitchen. We were living in the desert and I said to him I'm like honey like I love you way too much to speak this way And that moment really like it was a pattern interrupt and we from that point It's like you catch yourself you catch yourself in the middle of the madness and it's just and Say I'm sorry. It's like honey. I see myself. I'm behaving so ridiculous I think if I was to say one thing that why we are here is we both take responsibility And I think you know the old way is you said this you did that you know you big jerk or whatever both ways and so it's the External blame or the external demonization Relationships really change when it's like it's me It's me and we take responsibility and there's such freedom in that you know like if such freedom and just like I love you And I'm sorry and I see how I was just being versus you did this it's like I I and I think at this age of our life. That's the greatest freedom And just the other day you know I walked out of the room and I saw myself in my mind sign I'm like well that was a little dramatic and so I walk back in and I'm like honey I'm sorry. I just you know I was feeling stressed and I was overwhelmed and I was so short in the moment and there's such freedom and just saying I'm sorry and beginning again like it's just because my life gives you the moment and I look at it and see what she's going through with her mom, she's going through every day and running our businesses, running what's going on, like how could she not feel that way? So I don't take it personal at this stage of my life. I did it at her earlier stage of my life. - Absolutely. - No question I did. - Yes. - We're part of what we're here to do is to help you shorten the cycle of learning. So you gotta have less pain and more pleasure, and more joy, and more happiness, and more fulfillment. - Taking responsibility is freedom. - It's huge. And the other part is we're really good at, most people don't know how to ask for what they really need, and we have a simple code. It's like, honey, this would be meaningful to me. If you do this, it would really be meaningful. Either one of us here, it's meaningful for the other one. It's done. There's no discussion. We just do it 'cause we love each other 'cause we want the other one to be happy. So meaningful is a code word that there's so many things that happen in life you might be talking about asking for or making happen. But when we say that, we both zero in and say, okay, we got it. We've even taught it to our daughter. - And he would, Tony was just going to, not football, baseball game up in Canada. - One series. - For the world's year. - Baseball game again. - Seven came with the world's series. With the daughter's own, a piece of it. - But nice. - Pretty big spoiler. - I was going to this baseball game again. - Team awesome. - Yeah. But life was full at the time. And he asked me if I wanted to go, and I didn't want to go. I just wanted to stay home. I wanted to be at my pajamas. I wanted to have a bath. I wanted to read a book. And so I said to him, I was like, honey, like, look, I'm game. Like if you want me to go, if it's meaningful, I'll go. And he was like, no, honey. He's like, no, not a problem at all. But like that clarification. - 'Cause that's what I meant to her. Baseball game in Canada. Not the seventh care of the world's series. - Yeah. - Team you in the face, absolutely. - So why would I make her my other planet? - She has a different meaning than I do. But why would I make her go do that? So just, I want to be with her. But I can pop up for the game and come back with my friends and make it happen, so. - Wow. In my mind, I was like, is it good hot dogs? If there was a great hot dog guy? - That's one minute. It's always hungry. - Yeah. - But I don't know since, like, she's always counseling her. Don't eat all that mom. - Hey, owning part of the LA Dodgers to you, at least get free hot dogs when you go. Is that part of the park? - I actually get free hot dogs. - Okay, that's good, that's good. Maybe a good seat too. I don't know. - Very good seat. - Well, we wouldn't be really respectful of your old time, but I just can't say what an honor it was to get to sit down and have a conversation. - I think that's a gift to be with the two of you. - And I know you have a free seminar coming up very soon. - Yes. - Time to rise. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? - Yeah, just real quick, we started it during COVID because everybody's stuck in their homes and it's like, you know, we have 121 businesses, companies, different companies. So it's one of the business things. It's like, this is our mission. How do we help people? - Yeah. - And it's like, okay, they're stuck at home. How do we have them not travel and spend no money whatsoever and help them? And I said, well, let's do a seminar, but two, three hours would be a great seminar. It's like, let's do three days, two, three hours a day. They don't have to leave their house or they don't have their work. They can experience, it's like going to a movie, but the movie changes your life. And we're gonna show them how to increase their energy, figure out what's going on in their relationship, figure out how to shift what they're doing in their business and make these changes and they're part of a community. We've had, on average, a million people each year do this and we do it once a year. - Oh my goodness. - And it's free, it's totally free. - Wow. - So it's coming up January 29th through the 31st. - Okay. - And so it's like two o'clock in the afternoon and we have people from 193 countries that participate. And then we have a Facebook group to be part of this community of people making all these cool changes. But if they go to time to write summit.com, time to write summit.com, register again, there's no cost for it. And then we'd love to be able to serve people for those three days. - Amazing. - Incredible. - Okay. - It comes right to you, it's free, it's coming up right very soon. - So it's starting your new year with Rents and Resolutions, you know, fall through on, let's get you, let's get you all right. - Everything that we've been speaking about, whether you're a parent, it's like, you know, kids don't learn from what we say. They learn from how we are. And so, and same in relationship, it's like, it's a way to live intentionally. And the results are so powerful. The miracles from this program is just unbelievable. And we go deeper into relationship there as well. And yeah, it's one of our favorite things we do our time to buy summit. - Amazing, I know you've changed so many lives. And you're so sweet to be worried about being disrespectful to us. But we are just like amazed by your, both of your wisdoms and like the things that you can do. And so it's our honor to get to learn from you. - Yes. - And also our honor to be with you. Come join us at the summit, please. - How cool. - And you've got to come to a live event too. You'll be able to. - We want to. We really want to. - You have a great experience. - Oh my gosh, yeah. - People that won't sit for a three hour movie go 12 hours a day with us for four days and nights. A state in the guy at the very top of the stadium will be full tilt 10 hours into it. - Oh my goodness. - That dragged there by somebody else. There's nothing quite like it. - I've heard the energy is something that you can't even quite describe. - So imagine your biggest rock concerter, I remember one of my friends was a coach Riley. I mean, Pat Riley is coached in major teams and Miami is the owner there. And he went one time and he said, this is like the seventh game of the NBA championship. He goes, but it goes on for 12 hours a day before days. And so it really is like that's a blast for people. And that's why time disappears. 'Cause you know, when you're having a good time, time's gone, right? You know, when you're not enjoying it in a minute, it feels like eternity. So it's a great experience that we look forward to having you guys share with us. - Amazing. - Well, Tony Sage, thank you so much guys. - Thank you, seriously. - Time to risesummit.com, go check it out. All right, did I say that right? Is that, okay, perfect. Thank you guys. - Awesome.