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Speaker 4Welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast. The opinions expressed here are those of the individuals and not of any organization. Let's do it. Tom, thanks for coming on, man. I appreciate you. I, uh, yeah. Um, we're in a new venue here. It, uh, I really appreciate, too, how, you know, we're a lot alike in the sense that, you know, we spent a lot of time setting this up and making sure it was all perfect. And, um, it's just funny. Like, as addicts, I feel like a lot of us, it has to be, we're either, it has to be 100% perfect or it, you know what I mean? It has to be, there's no in the middle. There's no middle ground, right? There's no, we're very black and white thinkers. And, um, I just appreciate that about you. So thanks for coming down. It's good to see you. Um, you too, man. Yeah. Why don't you, um, let's do this. Why don't you start off? With a little bit of your story, um, you know, kind of what you were like, what happened and what you're like now. Sure, bud.
Speaker 5Um, I'm from Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Um, yeah, I was, uh, I was just a weird kid. You know, I, I felt, I just couldn't figure people out. They, I just always kind of felt a bit on the outside and like people just, they just bothered me. You know, like I was not a popular kid. I was like turbo unpopular. Actually in elementary and junior high. And, uh, and then at the, right at the end of junior high, uh, someone made the mistake of inviting me and my, uh, my weird friends to like a popular person party. And of course he was like in the Bush, um, in South Calgary. And, uh, I, I would have done fucking anything to forget for people to just be like, yeah, me too, me too. And someone's like, you're drinking some peach coolers. And we were like on the side of this big hill. And I, I just strapped it. I chugged it. And I, I was 14. I specifically remember we were walking uphill and I just fell and started laughing. I was like this, I choose this like forever now. And I just couldn't wait to do it again. And the next time, uh, we got some Mike's heart a few weeks later, it was like summertime and, and we, uh, we were like, okay, we're gonna sleep on the trampoline, but we're also going to go get drunk and do some property damage in the neighborhood. And so we get into it and it's like me and like three friends or something. Yeah. And, uh, I w we woke up the next day and it's just like, it was my first hangover and everyone's like, Oh, never doing that again. I was like, I feel so fucking cool right now. Like, this is awesome. I was so sick, but, uh, I didn't puke, uh, which played into, uh, further along in my story. Um, when I got to high school, all of a sudden, honestly, it was the late nineties and like somehow over the summer skateboarding got cool. And so I went from this one school. In junior high, where I was like, my nickname was bored, fag Tom, it was, it was Calgary. It was not a taller place and not much PC gold, not much at all. And, and so I got, I, I was the only kid from my school that went to a different high school. Everyone went to one and I was the only kid that went to a different one and I got there and everybody was like skateboarding and, and people like me. And I was like, Oh my God, this is like fucking Narnia to me. This is so great. And I started getting invited to parties. And then of course, people started being like, Oh man, you're so fun to drink with. That doomed me, you know, because then all of a sudden, like the popularity and the drinking, they were tied. There was no turning back for me. Also, it turns out I was an alcoholic. And so it's all I wanted to do was like go out and, uh, find this perfect equilibrium of like how much booze, how many forties can I drink mixed with how much wheat can I smoke? And it was, I coined the term. I was like, I'm going to go out and drink with you. I'm going to go out and drink with you. I'm going to go out and drink with you. 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I'm going to turn this party up. A lot less hills around here, too, right? So many less hills. And so I just fell back into it. And then I kept saying, all right, I'm going to quit drinking. And it was another 10 years before I finally got sober. And in those 10 years, the problem for me was when I decided that I was an alcoholic and that was a problem, ruined drinking for me. Yeah. Like, it was done. Because then every time I drank, it was like, I'm doing something wrong. And I was bummed out. I was like, I can't believe I went to that fucking meeting for the first time. Like, I could have been happily drinking. Yeah. But I always aspired to get sober. I was like, okay. The seed was planted. Exactly. But then also at the same time, like, I started filming. I linked up with, like, a big band, like a big famous Canadian band. And I was touring around with them, making documentaries and stuff. And, like, I was choosing jobs that, as a filmmaker, that it wasn't out of place. It wasn't out of place for me to be drinking in the afternoon. You kind of fit in. Exactly. Yeah. It was like, I'd be sitting on the tour bus and we're in, like, Zurich or something. And they're like, I'm like, oh, time for beer. They're like, yeah, it's noon. Cool. They don't know I've already had seven beers. Yeah. Right? And I've got, like, beer and drugs, like, hidden in my bunk and just holding on, you know. And then I started dating a coke-dealing runway model. That checked two of my boxes. Right there, you know. And I was like, how do you say no? We became really good friends. And then I fell into the fashion industry. That's just filled with blow. And it was just a six and a half year toxic relationship, you know. And I eventually, we broke up. And I moved out. I got this great apartment by myself. But she got all the friends. So I was just fucking sad and drinking by myself. And I remember one time, about six months before I got sober, I'm leaving the liquor store. And I'm like, okay, I need to get sober and I need friends. I'm like, oh, I know where those are. All right. There are rooms filled with those people, you know. And so eventually, at the very end, I had eliminated sleep. Like, I wasn't sleeping. I was just staying up for days or weeks at a time. And then eventually, I saw a friend, our buddy Julian. I saw him on Instagram and he just, like, looked sober. On Instagram you saw him? On Instagram. Interesting. And I just started scrolling through and I saw a post that he said, he's like, yeah, I'm sober. And I messaged him. I was like, ah, help. Help me. I hadn't slept in, like, four days. And he was like, yeah, just come with me. And so I did. And then I went into this meeting and I was like, these are my people. It was a men's meeting, right? And I was like, everyone's just joking and shit. And I was like, this is it. This is where I belong. And then I was like, one more bender. And I went out and I didn't sleep for two weeks. Yikes. And. Were you hanging out with the shadow people at that point? Oh, yeah. I was just, like, going bar to bar in my neighborhood. And then, like, you know, the sun comes up and I'm like, oh, my drug dealer's up. And so call him. Comes up. Comes to my house. Another win. And I was like, I'll go for a week. You know, I can do a week without sleep. That's fine. Which is ridiculous. But. And then I looked at the calendar. I was like, fuck, it's been like nine days. I was like, all right, one more day. One more day. One more day. And by the end, I was like, I'm going to have a heart attack. I thought I was going to have a heart attack. And actually, that was the point, too, where it was like I was at my bottom. I was like, this is. I was hopeless. I don't think I'll ever be able to get sober. And that was the first time that, like, suicide seemed like an option. And I had this clarity. I was like, no, that's it. So I woke up and I finally, you know, took enough sleeping pills to fall asleep. And then I luckily woke up. And I was like, all right, it's going to be like two days till that meeting or something. It was in like six hours. I was like, shit. And I dragged myself back to that meeting. And I was sober ever since. So I've been sober for 29 months.
Speaker 4So almost two and a half years. Two and a half years. Nice. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean. I mean, you mentioned a lot there that I can just, I feel my body. Like, one, getting excited. Yeah. And then two, really, like, just, like, I know how that feels. A lot of the no sleep thing, man. Were you, that was a, that was a, like, cold painly? Or were you doing all sorts of other stimulants?
Speaker 5No, it was cold. Yeah. I had one time where I tried to fall asleep. So my ex-girlfriend gave me a Xanax. And I lost a day. You just forgot. Fucking. Blacked out. Yeah. Apparently I was not a nice person. I was like. Running from party to party. And I was like, nah, everyone's trying to kill me. Or something like that.
Speaker 4No, benzos are scary. Yeah. I had a tough run with them. And, you know, people around me would always. And I don't remember this. I don't. One of the things I read about benzos is what they make you do is. One of the side effects is you have this sort of false feeling of sobriety. It makes you feel more sober than you actually are. And when in my, you know, I have videos of myself. That's so dangerous. It's like, it's so dangerous, right? Because you get in the car and you do all sorts of things. That you think you could do. You show up to family events. People would tell me after. They'd be like, you were slurring your words the whole time. Oh, no. And I was like, I don't. No, I wasn't. I don't remember that at all. I remember. It's that Homer Simpson idea of what the last night looked like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went for lunch with one of my friends. And it was like the middle of the day. And I just remember, like, you know, a couple months later. When he felt comfortable to tell me. Without me punching him in the face or whatever. Or, you know, calling him an idiot. He's like, yeah, dude, you were slurring your words the whole day. And I'm pretty sure. You went to work that day. And, like, I don't even know. And I'm like, oh, man. Oh, that's tough. And then you get those thoughts of, what did I do? Who do I apologize to, right? The other thing I was going to ask you, too, is, you know. At any point, was there somebody in your life that was like, Tom, you need to get help? Yeah, my family.
Speaker 5Yeah. Yeah. Because they knew that I was always trying to get sober, right? Like, it's so. Every time I called them, I'd be like, yeah, I got a little bit of sobriety. You know, whatever. And then they knew when I'd fall. And they'd be like, how's the quitting trick? And I'd be like, you can't ask me that. You know, like, that's my journey. My journey. You're not helping. My mom would, like, send me an article about, like, the benefits of sobriety. Get out of my life, mom. I'm, like, 38.
Speaker 4Yeah, you're coming up with, like, all these reasons. I told you to stay out of my room. You don't understand, mom. You don't understand. It's a generational thing. Yeah. Everyone's doing it.
Speaker 5I mean, while, like, my sister's got, like, this beautiful. Life with kids. My brother's, like, working for the fucking government. He's, like, a foreign diplomat. And I'm just running around with fucking sociopaths.
Speaker 4I can relate to that, too. It's, like, being the black sheep in the family. My sister was a doctor. Yeah. And my whole life, I compared myself to her. I thought my parents were comparing me to her. They weren't.
Speaker 5It's also, like, it's funny because, like, at the beginning, when I was drinking, like, my brother-in-law and stuff, like, he always kind of looked at me and was like, tell me some of your crazy stories. You know? And then by the end, he's like, what are you doing at my house? That's, like, oh, you're drinking more of my booze? That shift is funny, though. Yeah, it is. And then I realized, you know, especially by the end, it was like, oh, yeah, of course they had to cut me out of their life. I was such a liability. Like, they can't have me around, you know? And now it's great, like, getting sober. They tell, she tells their kids, you know, they're teenagers. Like, look at Uncle Tommy. He's a fucking, he's an inspiring, cautionary tale.
Speaker 4Okay? That in and of itself is such a good reason to get sober. One of the benefits. People. People want you around, but people also look to you as a role model. Like, I never had that until I got sober, man. And, you know, I was, I was at a meeting the other day and somebody, we were doing a reading or something, and it mentioned that the guy in the story, all he wanted was to just be a respectable, useful member of society. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, yes. Yeah. That's what I want today. Yeah. I just want to be useful again. And I don't want people to, you know, liability. Like you said, I don't want people to be, oh, he's, what's he going to, what's he up to now? What's he going to do now? Right. What are you, what are you going to steal from me now, Anthony? Like. By the, by the end of my drinking, it was like, when someone would invite me out, I'd be like,
Speaker 5are you sure? Yeah. Really? You do have the right number here. Yeah. Exactly. You got the right tongue. Yeah. Like, yeah, man, we like having you around. I'm like, is this an intervention? Yeah. You got to double check. Like, walking in, I'm like, uh, looking for family members. Like, oh, no. Okay. We're just drinking. Around the quarters and stuff. Exactly. But yeah, no, nobody ever really, really intervened on me. Um. And everyone was really happy, but also at the same time, it's like you got sober and I, I had done it enough times and failed every 100% of the time that like, uh, it, it took a while for people to be like, all right, I think he's doing it. Right. I think he's, I think this is taking. This time's going to stick. And also for me, it's, you know, I had amends to make to people, but I waited a long time to do it, you know, like, um, uh, about kind of broaching the subjects with people because I wanted to give it enough time that people knew I was taking it seriously. You know? And, and now a few years in, uh, people, you can just see it. They trust that like, yeah, I'm not, they don't have to fucking walk on tippy toes or on eggshells. It's, uh, it's life's easier. That's the one thing about like alcoholism and drug use is like, fuck, it's a lot of work. It is so much work. I've never put any amount of effort into anything in my life as I did to producing my alcoholism and my drug addiction. Feeding it. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's so much timing and scheduling, right?
Speaker 4Pre-meditation.
Speaker 5Yeah. And like, I hear a lot of people like, yeah, I was hiding booze everywhere. i'm like well i never had to do that uh because anybody who i was going to have in my life like i was so comfortable with telling people they're like you drink a lot of like yeah i'm a drinker what do you do you know like i work in the arts it's part of my process you don't like it get out so many people part of my process i had this one tour manager who like manages a tour for a band like they got a crazy job this guy was in recovery he was like five years sober watching me run around like a maniac he knew exactly what was going on and he'd be like stop drinking all the band's booze and i'm like it's part of my process why do you have beer stashed all around the it's an hour long show like why is there a beer there there's like well because then when i shoot over there
Speaker 4yeah that makes sense it's like an obstacle for us and he and i've become friends since we hated
Speaker 5each other back then but and he was like i'm so surprised you survived he was like i was watching how much you're drinking and everything and like you didn't fuck anything up i was like that's how much effort i was putting into maintaining my my alcoholism you know i saw other people who were making all these mistakes in their lives and i always made note of it i'm like don't do that and then i can keep drinking you know and so you know going back it's like i didn't make a lot of crazy mistakes it's kind of like i said this to a to a friend uh recently it's like getting out of getting sober and everything it's kind of like in the action movie like indiana jones where it's doors closing and just barely makes it and reaches grabs the hat you know it's like oh jeez like that's what i feel like getting sober was for me like i got out reasonably on skates you know like my liver was damaged uh my heart was in a bad spot i was about to totally blow my life up and getting out of it like six months later at a clean bill of health and uh and i hadn't burned down i didn't burn too many bridges you know so i got out at the right time i mean
Speaker 4as you're saying that uh that's a good metaphor and i can totally i totally relate to that um i always think about too is like if we were to reshoot that scene i don't know what would happen no my arm might get caught in the door yeah my neck might get caught i might bring my family in with me you know what i mean like it's so unpredictable i know generally what's going to happen if i relapse again yeah but i i really don't know the outcome no because i proved myself so many times you know trying new drugs hanging out with new people and i'm like oh my god i'm that i normally wouldn't hang out with oh absolutely like i um i one thing to do is like i
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Speaker 2tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college that's why she shops at bj's wholesale club saving up to 25 off grocery store prices beef jerky microwave meals laundry pods even they can't screw up have you met my kids and with bj's gas she gets there for less they call me the road warrior this is your home road warrior mom home of the save join for just twenty dollars at bj dot com slash mesquite and save ten cents per gallon for six months open soon limited time offer new members only bj's home of the save especially early on i play the tape forward
Speaker 5okay i'm thinking about this all right what's gonna happen if i go get if i have a drink okay i'm instantly gonna go get a box of wine probably three go to a drug dealer's house and then stay up for how long and and i had a you know a guy who had like 30 years surprise like don't play the tape forward a day or a week do a month and a year and it makes you feel like you're not gonna be able to enjoy the life of your life but it makes you feel like you're not gonna enjoy the life of your life but it makes you feel like you're not gonna enjoy the life of your life i think i'll be dead in weeks because the idea of going back um would be so monumental like i'd start thinking fuck i gotta do all this shit again and but also the you know the benefit of that to me is that no part of me thinks that i can have a drink no part of like that it eliminated this whole kind of uh avenue of my alcoholism to kind of creep back in because you hear that from so many people they say oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna say i thought i could manage it i thought i could just have one and be okay zero part of me thinks that that was possible and so if i were to relapse it would be because it'd be like uh i would have like i guess chosen that i'm gonna burn my life and all it would take is one drink for me and i'd be off to the races because i'm an alcoholic and i have been since i was i believe since i was born you know at my my first summer i went to visit my mom at nova scotia and we're driving along and i was like what alcoholism in the family she was like no well you know your grandpa and all of his brothers and your uncles and everybody i was like that provided me with a lot of comfort knowing that like look man this is who i am it's not like it was a moral failing it's like i said to my sister a while ago she took me out to go see nate bargazzi you know just across the street here you know and and uh she was i was she likes me telling her about what it's like and stuff and i said the other day i'm like i'm not gonna go to the hospital because i'm not gonna be able to get a drink like it was just a process and i was gonna end up here uh either end up end up sober or dead that's it you know there was no dialing it back and i see other people who were like well yeah you know i had a kid and then i uh was able to dial it back i'm like oh yeah no that wouldn't i would just ruin the kid yeah that's just that's the direction i was going in life like i didn't give a shit about what was going on around me like i it's not just the booze and the drugs i like the chaos yeah me too that's yeah i woke up every every single day being like i wonder if today's gonna be not the best day of my life the craziest craziest yeah because crazy was good that's me yeah yeah you know what i realized
Speaker 4too and as you say that yeah i resonated a lot with that i realized this past time when i was in rehab again um i crave chaos because i want to distract myself from how i feel about me yeah i'm like so uncomfortable with myself as a default yeah i'm so it's just the way i'm wired i think that any chaos in my life just brings distraction to poor me i'm shitty i'm a terrible person and yeah i'll just blow it up like and i do it now with uh you know with other things like buying stuff or other addictions that i have to keep in check too right because this kind of like ordinary lifestyle that is good in in retrospect it is a good life to be have an ordinary life today i i'm grateful for that yeah but there's times where it's like i'm
Speaker 5bored it's like no you're not this is the thing it happens to me especially because it's we're some reason the change in the seasons always hits me hard and i was riding my bike it was a nice day like two three weeks ago i'm riding around i'm like fucking i think boring and i you know realize this happens to me all the time and it's like i've got a hard problem hard time distinguishing um lack of chaos from boredom you know like just because i'm not going like this all the time doesn't mean my life is boring and i have to remind myself my life is pleasant pleasant it is very easy i don't i'm a freelancer so i barely have to work like i used to have to work all the time because i've fucking i've saved over sixty thousand dollars in the last two and a half years like what that little counter you know and so now i'm like oh what's going on man i'm not getting any work he's like oh i don't have to work you know if i want something something nice i'll go shoot something or whatever but right now it's like bills are paid credit score is fine i could just yeah maybe i'll watch two movies in the afternoon that's fine do what i like my you know my big candy crush is that game still around oh it is buddy i remember that i'm on almost on level 12,000
Speaker 4does it ever end it's like no it's like a journey not a destination it better not man
Speaker 5because if that happens i'm gonna burn someone's office down yeah
Speaker 4oh that's great um i mean so yeah that's that's great that's a great story man what um if you were to say like as of right now because this probably changes but what is one of the great or or the greatest gift that sobriety has given me what would you say me
Speaker 5it brought me back you know like my sponsor said to me recently and i'd never heard this it's like recovery is just you're recovering yourself you're recovering an old version of yourself and i had a big you know getting sober i thought so lowly of myself and i was like i'm such a piece of that i was like what if i get sober and the dude that i turn into sucks and then i realized you know a big part of my recovery is helping other people you know that is such a win-win for me like okay what keeps me sober being nice to other people who wins from that every everyone you know and so the more that i was helping other people i was like oh shit i'm actually turning into the person that i always aspired to be while i was drinking and so the best thing that's happened is that like i like who i am i genuinely do and it didn't take that long it took like maybe eight months before i realized that i was a good person and i was a good person and i realized like i said to myself i was walking up to my apartment after i just had a long walk with this girl who's trying to get sober and i said i like who i am and it occurred to me i haven't been able to honestly say that about myself in decades and i would say i you know a big part of being fucked up and like especially with cocaine and stuff i'm looking in the rear like you're the fucking best man look at you your hair looks great look at this shirt fucking killing it i'm - You're killing yourself. - You're killing it, but not really killing it. And when I got sober, I realized like, oh no, I like, I like who I am. And people look up to me now. I can help other people who are trying to get sober. And, uh, you know, all those things, empathy, selflessness, all those things that was like, I, when I was drinking, I'd look at other people and be like, uh, he's got a fucking ulterior motive, you know, everything's transactional. And now it's just not like, they say live in life on life's terms and like life's fine. You know, it's just, it's pleasant. It's pretty good. Also, like, I really like sobriety. I really do. I've been an optimist my whole life. It almost killed me because while everything's burning around me, I'm just like, this is good. Everything's fine. It's like that meme of that dog. Yeah. I was at least thinking that too. It's just, everything's on fire around him and he's like, this is fine. That was, that was decades of my life. And early on, I had a friend who, who said, uh, that's my buddy Noof. Uh, he said, um, look, we have two ways to get sober. It's like. Fucking get a sponsor, go to the, go to meetings and stuff. And like, you're going to get sober. Okay. If you do the work, you're going to get sober or you can do it all with a big fucking smile on your face. And it brings me back to this quote. I can't remember who originally said it, but I said, my dad told me years ago, he said, look, optimists and pessimists die the same, but they live very differently. And I've always been an optimistic person. Um, I made a decision in my late teens and said, I'm just going to be happy. And I was happy. Even when I was drinking, even when I was like at my lowest, I was still happy because it was a state of mind to me. I just wasn't the kind of happy that I wanted. And then getting sober, there's a lot of questions. It's like, am I happy? What am I? What is happy? Is my name even Tom? Yeah. And then, and then I realized, oh shit, I can be happy. You know, because getting away from that obsession of booze and drugs, that it's like, you realize you've been dragging around a ball and chain. And all of a sudden someone snaps that thing off your, off your ankle. And I was like, oh shit, I can do anything I want with my life. Yeah. Like, and it doesn't have to be dictated by like, is there booze and drugs? You know, I, I, I kind of, I started listening to a lot more like fucking EDM music. I was like, I think I'm going to go to some EDM festivals, like I'm going to go see Tomorrowland or something like, I think I'm going to go on like a sober pilgrimage almost like, have you been to any shows like that? Sober?
Speaker 4No, I've been to tons. So it's a good time. Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 5I'm looking forward to just doing kind of stuff like that. Also, like I started drinking heavily when I was like 15, 16 years old. And when I got sober, first of all, I was like, what the fuck, man, I'm 39. Ooh, what happened to you? Uh, but also, you know, I started moisturizing and stuff and then I was like, oh, I still look pretty good. And then I realized I feel like I'm 60 years old again. Like there was no, there was no progress for me really emotionally, spiritually, anything. And in those 25 years of drinking. And so when I got out, I was, I was like, it was like, you're worried about turning 40, just turned 40. I was like, I love my 40s. This is great. I'm up at 5:30 in the morning every day. And, and I felt like a kid again. And, and those are, you know, every day I've got these constant, just kind of gifts of, of sobriety.
Speaker 4Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned, um, you know, you, you, you, you said something, you said, I'm not sure if I'm going to like the person I'm going to turn into. And what I've realized is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don't turn into anything. And you've alluded to this. We don't turn into anything new. We rediscover who we actually are. Right. Like I've heard it said before you come into, you come into sobriety, you come into recovery and uh, the kind of goal is like peeling back the layers of the onion, right? Every day you do something towards your recovery, something positive, helping someone else call it, you know, um, doing the next right thing, staying sober, um, taking a new guy, you know, to a meeting or whatever. It's like another layer. It just gets peeled back. Yeah. Right. And you're like, oh, I kind of like this guy. Right.
Speaker 5Yeah, absolutely. And it's, and to me, like, it's the speed of the peeling, you know, like I look at my recovery as momentum, you know, like it's like when I was drinking and using drugs, I was like literally sinking. I was in fucking quicksand. I got sober and it's like, oh, okay, you're back up to ground level, but your legs have atrophied. You got to rebuild them. Yeah. You know, getting out of the matrix and, and all of a sudden I'm like, fucking, I don't know how to walk. And so I surrounded myself with other alcoholics and they're like, I had done everything in my life drunk. I woke up and I drank and I did that for a long time, like I, before I had to go into a fucking meeting at an advertising agency or something, I would chug a bottle of wine because that got me normal. It was your medicine. It was our medicine. Exactly. And so I had to relearn how to do everything in my life, including having conversation, conversation. I had to learn how to smoke a cigarette. I had to learn how to go out and eat a meal, you know, all of these things. And as I did that, it's like I learned how to walk. And then I started learning how to fucking jog a little bit. And then now I look at like everything in my sobriety is, is little speed boost. This doing this is a speed boost and this will get me going for the rest of the day. Tomorrow I'll do something else. Exactly. Give me a little speed boost because I think about, you know, I'm a bike messenger. I ride my bike everywhere. It's like, I will never stop at a stop sign. I will slow down and I'll look and I'll keep going. It's called Idaho stop because if I stop, it's so hard to keep, to start going again. But if you keep a little bit of momentum and start, it's easy to keep going. If for me, if I fucking am by myself in my apartment for five days or a week and I don't go to a meeting and don't talk to anybody, it is so hard to, to, to start going again. And so as long as I keep my speed up, then I can directly correlate what I am working a good sober program to how happy I am. Right. Which also helps me out a lot in that if I feel that I've fucked up in my head, I'm like, what's wrong with me this week? And I'm like, I know how to fix it. I know exactly how to fix it. It's do stuff like this. It's do it's go to a meeting. It's just fucking going to bike ride with someone in recovery. It's whatever. And then at the end of the day, I'm like, yeah, that was it. You know? And to me, that's just win-win.
Speaker 4You know? Yeah. I mean, uh, yeah, there's so many little things that you, this one day at a time team is coming up in my mind right now. It's, uh, it's kind of like sales. I think of it, um, when you're in the sales industry, you know, the, often the phrases like, what have you done lately? What have you sold? What have you done for me lately? Yesterday's sobriety doesn't keep well, right. It's like, it's like vegetables or fruit or, you know, eggs, like you got to keep renewing it every day. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Clean out that crisper. Yeah. Cause yeah. Like yesterday's sobriety is not going to do shit for me today. No, it's not. I have to start over again. And that's not a monotonous, like major hill to climb. It's just, you know, one step at a time.
Speaker 5Yeah. It's, it really is like, to me, ever, you know, you get in and there's all these slogans like one day at a time and it works if you work with, turn it over all that shit. And to me, I, the only thing in my head was like, I can't believe, I can't believe I can ever drink again for the rest of my life. And it was like, oh, that's what one day at a time is, you know, a friend of mine said, he said, uh, look, we had the world record for fucking staying sober in a day. Still 24 hours. No one's beaten it. No one's beaten it. I've never done one. He's like, just get to bed sober. Yeah. And that's what I tell people. I don't tell people one day at a time. I'm like, get to bed sober tonight. And what are the things between where you are right now in your day and bed, what do you have to do? What do you want to do? Can you handle those things? And then just get to bed. And every single day, especially early on when I was still like counting my days, it didn't matter what I did in my life. Like it was like productive or not. No, I made it to bed sober. It was the most productive thing I've ever did in my entire life. That's it. And the little wins to me are, are gave me little speed boosts. You know, like I, I love how low of a bar we have set for ourselves. Like I got a friend who he's like five months sober now and he's like, dude, today I fucking cleaned my apartment and it made dinner. I'm like, that is so good for us. And that's what I like about hanging out with other alcoholics too. We're like, yes. Whereas someone else would be like. Do you have a head injury or something? How is that a thing? I've been doing that every day. It's like, you don't get it. There's something wrong with this guy. We've set the bar so low for ourselves that like, when for me, I 39 and get it, I'm like, it's almost like getting plopped in like a, just a new country and be like, Oh my God, you guys got apples here. This is cool. Wink it. And everyone's like, yeah, dude, we live here. And I'm like, yeah, but I've never been here before. Like I've never been to this in this reality before. Yeah. And those things are super exciting to me. And so when, when newer guys tell me that stuff, I'm like, yes, dude, that's, you should be excited about those things. Anything that keeps you building self-confidence and like just excited, like it, because like life can feel really boring at the beginning. And because we go from maximum excitement down to like, what am I doing with my life? It's like when you find little things like, Oh shit, I can smell again. Like, yeah, dude. Hold on to that.
Speaker 4Or I'm not blowing out chunks of flesh. Oh, dude.
Speaker 5I was talking to someone in the program who had the sniffles recently, I'm eight years sober. And I was like, sniffles. It's like, no, my nose never recovered. And I'm like me.
Speaker 4Yeah. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. I don't miss that. That was annoying as hell. People looking at you. Oh geez. I'm sick.
Speaker 5I'm just sick. Oh, the, the, the, the amounts of times that I had a food poisoning was so I just couldn't make it in or did remember that. It's 5:00 AM. You gotta be somewhere at eight and you're still on booze and drugs in your life. like there's no i'm gonna fall asleep and you have to make that choice do i show up and risk my career or literally do the responsible thing and not show up like if you've gotten to the point where the responsible thing is to bail you're not in a good place there might be a problem there might be a fucking issue with with the things that you're doing and there have been so many things that i've been looking forward to um for months or days weeks whatever and then i fuck it
Speaker 4up the night before and i end up just having to bail on it you know i mean i vividly vividly remember those nights of staring at the clock and negotiating with yourself yeah okay i can fit in one more and i'll get an hour of sleep and then i'll show up to work and it's just insanity man it's like i should be sleeping having dreams right now not thinking about i should have been
Speaker 5in bed nine hours ago yeah yeah even that and then you hate yourself because you didn't make that choice and you for me i could always put it back to one inflection point you where i'd be like you know you should just go to bed and you're like yeah and then you get a case of the fuck it's but that's the fuck it i'm hanging left i'm hanging left exactly and you could always just like well i made this choice so now i adapt like i've got a sponsor you we were laughing he told me he's like you know there's one point where i was actually researching what life would be like after a liver transplant i said i did the same thing instead of saying maybe i should make some uh some adjustments so i don't have to lose a major organ i can say well what's gonna life like life gonna be like if i replace that organ like that is psychotic yeah this is just how it is now this is how it is this is what's going on yeah it's crazy and now like uh the absence of those decisions i think about a lot and i get that from talking to other people doing stuff like this yeah right remember when we had to fucking make this decision oh i forgot about that that doesn't exist to us anymore yeah you know i did that all the time oh like it is whatever that thing is people don't understand how torturous it is being locked into addiction and alcoholism people are like i don't understand like why don't you not drink like this is so many levels uh of suffering past anything you can comprehend you know like every minute is a negotiation in in your life it's like do i do this how do i do this oh my god i i've got this amount of booze but if i could do that okay can i chug this amount of booze and that'll last me uh until i can get that or do i hide it like i'd be on my way to go do something and realize fuck there's no like a shoot i'm filming something it's like fuck there's no whiskey and i'm in a transport van and i'm like looking at lcdos i'm like fuck and i remember something like one time i was like you gotta stop stop you stop there sorry i got a stomach thing and i run into the gas station out the back blocks get a bottle of whiskey run back and then get in the car they're like you okay she's like sweaty whatever yeah like this is with people who if they knew what i was doing my career is over
Speaker 4and and to me it was like i was ecstatic that i was able to get that bottle of jameson it's like you get so used to living this double life that yeah that's another reason why you don't know who you are anymore because you're so used to this like altered reality of this uh secret life where you're like i can't tell them no like they won't understand you're like oh my god i can't tell them you know and you know most of the time people just want you to do well i found i know people want to help you uh but you're so scared to ask for help and that's why i always try to say like on my uh you know you have a social media channel as well um practically sober it's called and uh there's a lot of um i just find that that this market is like it's so important for a lot of people that don't know about recovery because for a long time i didn't know that sobriety was even possible yeah like i just thought that the rest of my life i was gonna somehow manage it and and plan it and adapt and like you said i'll just get a new liver there's always like you're just always adapting it's insane you know a big part part of me was like instead of looking
Speaker 5into it i was like yeah i'm sure there's answers somewhere um and i'll get there or if i'd make a little thing like i'd look something up i'd be like hey maybe that's an avenue i could do it i'd be like good for you tom yeah way to go oh i'm so proud of you that you're gonna quit drinking soon soon always soon tomorrow yeah i was constantly proud of myself that i was going to get quit drinking or be like this is the last bender good for you man you deserve this way to go and then the problem with me thinking that i was gonna quit every like week or something was that it was always like all right this is one last time you know this is one last thing let's get a freaking bender tattoo this time or something and when you're when you think it's the last time you do stupid shit and yeah yeah and then i'd be like all right well i did that luckily i'm not doing that anymore and then two weeks later it's like no not done yet you know let's let's be realistic here i remember one time i i was like all right i'm quitting on new year's but then i stayed up until the third and because i did that i was like well it's not this isn't pure so i'll give myself another year yeah and i said i'll do another year then i was like good for you just a full year to wrap up your affairs yeah get everything in order by everything in order exactly and then i i think it was another three years before that's over and
Speaker 4when you don't tell anyone about that stuff in the moment it just it's the best idea ever you know everything's the best idea we talked about this yesterday it's like you're the only one in the audience like yeah do it yeah way to go tom yeah well done it's like no it's a terrible idea i know
Speaker 5tell someone else about it yeah there's people in the back here i'd be like nobody knows what he's going through this is actually extremely heroic meanwhile friends are just like if you heard about tom yeah yeah what's going on what's going on with him is he alive like by the end i think in my last few months my dad did a safety checkup oh yeah and because people hadn't heard from me for a few days and all of a sudden i'm i just woken up from it was better i'm just like wading through wine bottles knock on my door tom well what the dad are you why what's gonna just make it sure you're alive i'm like oh no oh this feels like it went to
Speaker 4the next level i think i got sober like maybe a month after that or something yeah yeah i i found out and we find this stuff out after right and it just it hits so hard sometimes but it's also like i need to remember what people how people were around me because i we often think that we we're the only ones we're only hurting ourselves now but realistically we're like a tornado going through yeah right and i found out recently that uh my wife was for like probably a month or two months was calling funeral homes was calling police stations and was calling looking for us in hospitals yeah to look for me because i wasn't coming home that just i was like oh my god i've had that before too i can't believe so when you say safety check it's like yeah you know i've heard of people's moms going into their room to check if they're breathing like yeah that when i hear that from parents yeah and loved ones i'm just like oh yeah that's why i don't go back it's
Speaker 5a funny thing because i i always said to myself well my my drinking i thought it was manageable because i was like i'm only hurting myself and not hurting anybody else because i wasn't i looked at it like i was never a blackout drinker and so now when i hear people like every time i drank i black out i'm like how didn't you instantly get sober like that that's just like okay let's have a drink and blindfold and like that's insane to me uh and i was like well i was never like that uh i was yeah like looking at what other people were doing and be like the differences rather than this i'm not gonna do that that but then i got sober and everyone's like i you know really realizing these uh subtle psychological damage that you're doing to people was brutal but also i was lucky that everybody in my life was just like yeah this is great this is awesome like i took a step back from my like social group um for a while and then like about seven eight months i started hanging out with a buddy and this married couple and we started going for bike rides they're like we like this guy way better i was like okay good that's good you know and now they're like two to my best friends yeah and actually even that guy he saw how how happy i was and he told me he's like dude i quit drinking because you were so happy i was like what he's like well i'm not an alcoholic but he realized that his two to three drinks a night uh that he was having like cocktails or whatever he was like he was ruining my life i've heard that from him because it was he was like i i feel like i wasted the last five years because i was procrastinating everything i had anxiety all these he just cut out this one thing
Speaker 4that he didn't need that he didn't even really like and he is he has skyrocketed yeah look i mean it's the consequence is almost always a way to reward of it for most people and i find that even with our society now a lot of people are on the down you know down slope downstream of um drinking and maybe not using i don't know right i mean the the addiction community is alive and well i can tell you that oh yeah i was sure hanging out with them four months ago five five months ago and uh yeah i don't ever want to go back there it's scary it's dark it's meaningless you know there's a lot
Speaker 5of uh uh fear it's also an age thing too for me like i tried to get sober in my late 20s i just wasn't done yet you know yeah and it wasn't you weren't it wasn't the time right it wasn't the time it just wasn't it wasn't right and and i part of me says oh look what your life would be like if you had gotten so what would your career be and i always tell myself dude you could have gotten hit by a bus the next day yeah like there's i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know there's there's no i like to think of like you know try not to future trail oh like what's going to happen in the future even more don't pass trip like if you're worried about what's going to happen in the future there are some things you can do to fix your direction and stuff you know like yes we have very little control over what's going to happen in the future around us but uh wishing that you had made different decisions that serves zero purpose yeah like people are i hear people say like i feel like i'm where i need to be and i'm like you're exactly where you're supposed to be because it's the only place that you are this is the only one that's real there's no separate like it's not a choose your own adventure yeah you can be like died there let's go back no it's like right now i'm here this is pretty fine you know like i don't have a lot of money that's fine whatever i'm healthy i got a hernia but it's fine how do you
Speaker 4get a hernia i have no idea it just showed up i'm in my 40s yeah that's part of it yeah well let's wrap up with this i'll ask you one more question um how do you deal with life like hard times in your life because i mean we all have it when we get sober things don't just magically get
Speaker 5no dude like i said i still have i said in a meeting uh last week that uh what i for it was an online meeting i've been going to since i was sober and and i said to them i was like you people with all of your years of sobriety complaining about life used to drive me nuts because i was sober and i think like a lot of us it was um there's only one problem in my life and it's bruising drugs that's it actually and as soon as i conquer that life is gonna be perfect and then i got sober and i was like oh life is still life life is absolutely still life and the only thing that i can tell myself and i got it from my buddy noof uh noofy mike he he always tells me he's like you're gonna be fine you're gonna be fine and that's what i do whenever i'm freaking out about something whatever my day is i pause and i'm like where am i i'm right here is this fine it's fine and it's gonna be fine and as long and the one thing i'm not gonna do is drink like i never want to drink when bad things happen it's when good things happen yeah me too like i always seem to like direct a good fucking project on a friday a friday i finish my fucking rights and i'm like no why would you listen fridays because then i'm in a cab going home and i'm looking around like there's that energy you know um so yeah my one thing is just uh i just say like i'm not gonna drink today and uh whatever's going on around me that's gonna work itself out i'll deal
Speaker 4with tomorrow tomorrow exactly yeah it won't work how about you what's what's your uh yeah um i like that a lot you know it's kind of it's kind of like this mindfulness technique where it's just like oh yeah i'm still alive yeah i'm feeling my fault okay i'm good i'm upright with a pulse um when hard things happen i'm recently like it changes right uh from time to time and what i mean by that is i grow you know i'm constantly growing and finding out new strategies i think the thing i'm thinking about the most like when i call people and i always talk about this but if i'm really struggling and life is really tough and it has been you know for the past two months when i call somebody in in recovery or someone that's even a loved one and i just kind of bounce my problem off them or not even that sometimes if i like i do that but if i just ask them how they're doing yeah i find that it just my perspective will just you know just all i need is like a moment yeah in just a shift right and it's a release valve yeah exactly but i'll tell you what happens and this is i always talk about perception and perspective this is a disease of perception a lot of people say i have these money problems i have a lot of debt from my past vendors oh a lot of debt i went bankrupt yeah i i'm i'm almost there like and you know what try doing anything to get outside yeah yeah you're fine you're alive you know you're approved right so i need to hear that thank you um but it was a bigger problem a week ago than it was now oh yeah what why is that the problem hasn't changed so i was thinking someone said that to me and i was thinking about it i was like huh it's how and i know this but you need to be in my mind oh yeah the problem's not going to go away by wishing it away no i have to change how i look at it right so it's like okay what can i do about this right now nothing what can i do about it right in this moment i can't solve it but i can put money down slowly i cannot buy that thing on
Speaker 5amazon yeah i know what you mean little steps i heard something i was listening to just something this morning and and a guy said he was quoting another writer but he said like the writer said oh that seems kind of dicey and then he used the example he said look the exact same thing could happen to two different people and one person is like they let it affect them like crazy and the other person would be like whatever you know like it's just us it's how we perceive it and for me um just trying not to i am capable of really making things bad in my own head we all are and so bouncing it off somebody um dude that's the that affirmation from other people uh we've been like oh this is gonna happen i think my life's over and they're like yeah but what if it's just not i'm like oh i didn't think of it they're like what if it doesn't matter and i'm like oh shit it doesn't matter like a lot of things don't matter no it's true they really don't and and if if time heals dude like it really does like i i i i like the idea of like uh what do they say a problem a problem shared is a problem i have right yeah and like you ever tried to move a couch by yourself you're fucked you can't do it you can't move a couch by yourself you know one other person fine you know like you and i could move a couch 30 flights if we wanted to one person there's no chance but just one other person you can you can figure pretty much anything out yeah and that's why to me like me trying thinking that i could get sober alone was like so stupid like thinking i could think my way through it instead of just being like hey you did this what do i do and they're like try this and i'm like oh shit i didn't think about that yeah it worked yeah it worked yeah okay look at me i was fucked now i'm fine yeah okay i'll try it yeah i'll give it a shot and of course at the beginning of recovery every time they told me something and it worked i was like you mother fuckers right this is john was right because you have to realize for me i had to realize oh shit i was wrong about all this and once i realized that i was wrong about how to get sober my sponsor said what if you're wrong about everything in life what else are you wrong i was like you son of a bitch and then a few days later i was like what if i'm wrong about everything in my life and i realized that once i admit that i maybe don't know then and i stopped digging my heels in on shit then if i lift my heels up then i open myself up to the answer it opens the door yeah because if i think no it's like this and and i keep trying trying something one way and it's failing i'm like no i'm gonna try harder yeah then it's like yeah what if you just try it like this and i'm oh fuck right yeah yeah but my way
Speaker 4was gonna work yeah i loosened it i just yeah i loosened the jar yeah classic yeah i always said that all right man fuck thanks so much for coming thanks for having me man this is this is great what a great way to start my day yeah i love it i appreciate you and i'm happy that you came into my life and yeah man me too when i was at my lowest you know you were still reaching out so i appreciate you man thank you that's what we do here right yeah brother awesome man i appreciate you man i appreciate you man i appreciate you man i appreciate you man
Speaker 7cool thanks all right man thanks for listening please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone
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