Tom Read Wilson has words with Jennifer Saunders

[MUSIC] I'm more than a little excited and more than a little nervous about today's guest. We are going to be chartering words and phrases with somebody whose comedic mark is as permanent as the pyramids. Jennifer Sonders has had as profound an impact on me as Mr. Pastery had on her and believe me, that's profound. From Shrek to absolutely fabulous, she delights me hide a gross hopper ears as much as mine. My personal delight reached its zenith when she decided to tackle wild and coward in Lady Windermere's fan and blight spirit. I hardly know where to start, but I shall start as ever with Jen's bespoke poem. [MUSIC] She talks about the lovely tickle when one's live on stage penetrating footlights with her wit. If I counted my life's tickles at my current age, she'd tally more than all my notebooks fit. From parody to slapstick, she has really run the gamut, but now her repertoire extends to wild. A fuse a lot of coward lines and eyes near as dammit, revert to bladder habits of a child. Ab Fad has long sustained me with its lines practically seared upon my ever grateful matter gray. When the movie hit the screens, I overcredits teared until the ashes parried me away. I'm such a devotee of hers. I know I'd run the risk of tight knit rhymes becoming flabby mourners. So with my last couplet, I endeavour to be brisk as I welcome Miss Jennifer Saunders. Wow, that's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Funny it's just so lovely to see you. Oh, lovely to see you too. Oh my. Well, I've missed seeing people. Oh, I know. Isn't this heaven? Zoom is such a lifeline. I know. I think for a lot of people it's been everything, hasn't it? I mean, the way to see family and everything. And yes, it shrinks the world, doesn't it? Shrinks the world. It does. Well, with podcasting is all about words. Yes. And we're on the game with names. Hmm. And Saunders makes you part of our patronym club of five because it's Sun of Zander. Okay, yes. I knew that. Saunders, either that or I read once it was a kind of porridge, but I prefer the Sun of Zander. Oh, oh, oh. But with first names it seems now I'm a big lover of your memoir bonkers and it seems that they're good to choose from. We have foffy, fur, jam, Jennifer, and curiously, sandwich. Sandwich, yes, I don't know why sandwich came. Sandwich came because Joanna Lomley and I used to send each other sort of silly faxes. And for some reason I used to call him is lumpy and I'd sign myself sandwich. And it just it just happened. She's not going to be Jack. Jack. Oh, she's Jack Lom. And Jack, she's because there were so many jays and I think it was Ben Elton who always used to call her say, oh, we are Jack Lomley, Jack Lomley. And she just became Jack. And I call her Jack. I think, yes, a few of us call her Jack now. Jack Lomley. Oh, my. In terms of curious appellations, what was Kitch and Tiles jolly nearly a name for? That was nearly a name for French and Sauners. Who would have been which then? Oh, I don't. Honestly, it hadn't been thought that deeply about it. Top it's seriously someone said, well, you've got to be called something because it was a lexysale. We're at the comic strip and every night we'd go on. And he's saying, here's Don French and Gen for Sauners. And it used to absolutely piss him off so much. And eventually said, well, you've got to think of a name. So of course, yes, a name, a name like Spadu like a name like Brickenbrack. And they could not think of a name. We could not. I think it always came down to say, well, we're thinking Kitch and Tiles. And he just went on and said, here's French and Sauners. And we thought, that's not bad. That's all that'll do. That'll do pig. You said you said about performing live with Don, this is the loveliest line. I just adore this. That receiving that wave of laughter was like the nicest tickle. And later that it was almost like a kind of elastic tickle that you wanted to stretch and stretch. Is that why you always let it have live audiences when filming? Yes, I think so. I mean, it was because when we first went to the BBC, we were under variety. We went under comedy. And in variety, which is why we also had to have a singer. If you in French or Sauners, you have a singer. And that was our variety. Yes. Because we're sexy now. Yeah. And I think it was one department comedy in variety. I can't remember. No, variety and entertainment. So we were variety and entertainment, not comedy. So we had to do a sort of live show. We had to be like more like a more common wise, more like a variety show. Yes. Yes. Then a comedy sketch show. And which is why we also had dancers in the first series, you know, we've actually we've had the error of our ways. Yeah, that was why because and all shows at the BBC, they're work with live audiences, all the sitcoms, all the yes, I do all that. It lends so much to our TV. Oh, yeah, so much nicer. Because you get that real, you get those nerves, you know, yes, that real sort of thrill of having to entertain the audience. Sometimes to the detriment of the scripts, I have to say. Um, Jen, you have cited Mr. Pastery as your earliest comic inspiration. And actually, to me, it makes a lot of sense because envisioning him trying to get out of that euphonium is very like Eddie and Patsy trying to get out of the car at your father's funeral in App's app. And do you think there is a golden thread that runs through what from pastry to me? From yes, they're putting. I don't know. I mean, but I do remember absolutely laughing my head off. And I must have been very small because I think that yeah, I must have been early primary. I mean, maybe even before, but absolutely thinking he was just the funniest thing I'd ever seen in my life. Because he was just everything that would always end up covered in flower. I get him now. He's a very unlikely kind of kids entertainer. It's quite bizarre looking. A sort of old man in a hat in a funny moustache always covered in flower. But he was really a physical comedian. And after him, I remember loving Lucille Ball, who was the same. Just always looked completely beautiful and macular, but could do the best pratfalls, the best physical comedy. Well, I mentioned the physical comedy. But for me and all my chums, in fact, it's the script that sort of seared on my mental retina. And I mean, we've cleared it. We just leave it into our lives. I mean, if I talk rubbish, which I'm apt to do, my friends will say to me, "That's nonsense shit, darling." And I say, "It's very expensive nonsense shit." And similarly, if we're pouring each other tipples, we'll say, "Do you want some more?" Just a smidge. It's just, it's like woven through our discourse. Oh, good. Oh, good. You have your favorite. I was watching some and thinking, "Oh, do I still find these funny?" And actually, I did find them very funny. I found, particularly, there were some moments that I'd completely forgotten that, and I thought Julia was completely brilliant. I mean, I've always thought Julia was the sort of the centre of it, because without Julia, there's just this madness flapping about. Yes. It's almost like you could do it for the disapproval. Yes, I think that's the thing. We always try the crack, Julia, you see. We always say, "I'll make Julia laugh." And she never would. I think it was Serious Four when she first cracked. Oh, my. Seriously. I mean, she would always be like, you know, after this, but in the scene, she was absolutely like stone. Like a stone. We had wound the clock back to the 90s with AppFab. Let's go back even further as we get regional with Jennifer Sohners. [Music] And childhood was rather parametetic for you, Jen, wasn't it? My father was in the RAF, so we moved every three to three years and went to various places. You went abroad. We went to Cyprus and Turkey. Is that where you were impaled by a cactus? Yes, I was. Impaled by cactuses. I was completely taxident pro. I didn't think I was very steady on my feet. This occasionally, I did. I got, I had boils for about three months after because of Oh, the cactus spike slowly coming out of me. Yes, and so we went there and we went to Turkey and then various RF camps. Was Merkshim the final spot? Was that where you said? No, it wasn't the longest one. And then we moved my dad left the Air Force and we went to Cheshire. So I did my sort of most of my secondary school in Cheshire. And that secondary school was that way you met? What sounds to me like the real life mistransport? Yes, misdynes. Jen, you have to make sure about her and you have to play her. I've never read such an experience. You're a great character. Was? I mean, nowadays she would just be, I don't know if you get struck off as a teacher or just put in jail because she was appalling. Appalling and she looked appalling too because she was desperately thin because she had an overactive thyroid and you could see it. It was a goiter, proper goiter. In the days when you had goiters, I think it was a simple pill you take to get rid of it. But she had this massive goiter. Always wore short, short, dark hair and a gown, black gown, always wore the gown and had black Labrador's in her office. Honestly, it's so sinister. It's so bizarre. I think about it at the time, it felt perfectly normal. But looking back on it and I think she was a very, very odd woman. Yes. I mean, even in ticuffs were the gravest misdynet. Anything, a roll down sock. A roll, a roll down sock. You would be outside her office the next morning and her hand would, like a claw would grip you on the shoulder and pull you into the office. And you were just, it was terrifying and you would just be talked at. What, what, what, what do you think? What were you thinking? Oh my god. It's not how we behave in it and it was like a kind of torture and she just took pleasure from frightening girls. Oh god. She ended up badly though, which I was quite pleased of, because she was named as a correspondent in a divorce case for the woman. And well, we all knew she was gay. We all knew because she was having a affair with the arcade teacher. Anyway, we all knew. Anyway, so she had to leave the school and as a leaving present, because I knew this, because my mother sent me the picture from the local newspaper. And she says, oh, you might be interested in this. Because normally all she sent me was, because I was abroad at the time, I was in Italy being in a pair. Normally, all she would send me was what had happened in Crossroads that week. But this was, this was, this was, this was, this was, particularly, and she included this cutting from the newspaper, which showed misdynes being presented with her leaving present by two terrified looking third-formers. And the leaving present was a shotgun. Area, preparation. Very. I mean, imagine thinking, what shall we give the headmistress as a leaving present? Let's give her a shotgun. The portrait you painted, she probably used nine terpies, but that was probably about 1976, that would be. So that's, I honestly, looking back on it all seems so normal at the time. And now looking back, you think, that was really odd. Yeah, and I think it's a film. I really do. And I think you ought to play her. I mean, you know about the, you know about the cricket. No. Oh, the cricket. Oh my god. Miss Dynes insisted that we had a cricket match on the first day of sports day. And, you know, a few parents would tip up. Nobody was a tall enthusiastic apart from Miss Dynes. But we had to, we had a cricket pitch in front of the school. And Miss Barnes, who was a terrified little bird, who was the deputy head, had to be the umpire. And she would terrified of Miss Dynes. And, uh, and the cricket match would ensue, you know, have our fielders and a bowler. And it was like a second former was the bowler. And Miss Dynes would, in full whites, white trousers, full flannel trousers, shirt, crevette. That, yes. Um, would stride out to the, the crease and beat the crease a little bit. Look around, check out the fielders as you do, who's at silly point. And then, and then, and then I remember one year, the second former ran out, chucked the ball, probably underarm, and got her out, got her out first ball. And there was absolute silence. No one said anything. Everyone just turned very slowly to Miss Barnes, who went, no, no, no, no. And so the, the ball was from the second former, and the match continued. I mean, it was bizarre. Oh my god. No, it's too much material, you know, and I mean, it's a bottomless well. It's a bottomless well. Miss Dynes. Right. At this juncture, I would love you to translate what I call some sort of first up, the fourth. Oh, the fourth is the toilet. Ah, the fourth is the toilet. Um, but it's also a poo. It's the fourth. I mean, it, it started as the toilet and then it became a poo because my grandfather was a Donut Cambridge. And in his college, which I imagine was Christ's college, because that's where he was a Don, and there were various little courts, and there was a, you know, the main court and the other court and third court. And the fourth was a toilet, which was off the third floor. And so, you know, I'm just going to the fourth. And then it became, I'm just going to have a fourth, and then it became a fourth, and the fourth is a poo. Oh gosh, what a lovely euphemism. Oh, he's having a fault. Minipatsies. Minipatsies, the Minipatsies were a circus, a mine circus juggling act that me and Dorm did at college. And we decided to do it, go into the cabaret business at college and appear as the Minipatsies sisters. And we just had black liatards, red swimming hats, white maker. And we had the tassels, which is I thought, our best yet we've ever done, which had our nipple tassels on the back. So we looked like we put our costumes on back to front. And we pretended to roll along on balls and do, you know, tumbling and all that sort of stuff. Very silly, silliest thing we've ever done. And here is, I think an Edmundsonism. That's my lamppost. Oh, that's my lamppost. Yes, and eight in his wild days once ran into and knocked over a lamppost in Soho. And I think it's in Berwick Street. And you can still see it. And every time you go by, he says, that's my lamppost. Oh, man. I can't have to hand it down. He paid for it yet to pay for a new one. So that's why he says that's my lamppost is because he actually bought it. Have to pay a fine and replace the lamppost. I was mugged once and there's now a sign in Fox. And I had the same thing. I feel this sort of blow of pride every time I pass it. What does the sign say? I was it the where hotspot for muggles or something like that? Right. Okay. Do you say Tom was mugged here. No, no. And yes. Yeah. Nice belt, lady. Oh, nice belt, lady. This was a share story. Dawn and I share was so nice to us, you know. And whenever she was in London, she would either she'd come and see she once sat in the studio of ad fab for hours now. And she once came to me and dorm at the Hammersmith Odeon Apollo, whatever it is now. And she came to see the show. And Paul Roberts, who was our producer, was so excited. He was sharing, sharing, oh, oh, she's and we said, just relax. She's very nice and she's very normal. Yeah, but oh, yeah, yeah, share. Yeah, she's gonna come back after us. So just just be cool, Paul. Honestly, just be cool. And he was so excited. Anyway, share comes back afterwards. And it's just the nicest person that cracks open a beer. And I can see Paul offering and hovering. And he's thinking, I'm going to say something. I'm going to say something. And she had on a particularly nice belt. Just as she was about to go, he went, chair, nice belt lady. Jen, I'm so glad you clarified because I'm saying, is this an adormant around the waist? Or is he referring to her eyes? Or no, actual, actual, actual belt? belt. Nice belt lady. And oh, my god, it was so sweet. The next one, the next one here is actually, this isn't just my favorite analogy of yours. This is just my favorite analogy. Full stop. You can't do a decent poo. If you have an eating anything, do you know what you're talking about? Oh, is it writing? Yes! I think that's writing, because I remember someone once saying to me, because everyone always says, "Oh, God, will you just do the writing? Will you just do the writing?" And they used to go, "Me and Dorne used to sit and read magazines. We've got to lunch. We do endless stuff, gossiping." And they go, "Why can't you just do the writing?" And I remember thinking, "Well, because you haven't got anything to write, so you can't do a poo unless you've eaten something. You can't do it." It's the fuel. I've got to have the fuel. Who seems to be a little bit of a recurring theme? And it's rubbed off on your daughters. Actually, that sounds disgusting. What a poo. But Beatty's Twitter bio reads, "Pooer, Farther, living in town." That was doing for very far, I think. Tell you a vision. Tell you a vision. This, I think, was Patrick Barlow, who we used to lot in French and so on, because he's just hilarious. And he does National Theatre of Brent. And his character, National Theatre of Brent, is always speaks rather embroidered language. And so I think the telly-o vision happened because he was playing the butler when we were doing our Batman sketch. And we had to invent another way of not just saying television or TV. So we always gave him an "Oh" in the middle of a word. So telly-o vision happened. And we've just said it ever since. You know, that's a telly-o vision. Because nickname is a sort of Chinese whisper of "Eek Name" because in "Eek It Out." And so early nicknames were always elongations, they were never diminutives. Is that right? Yeah, it's a good old stretch, that one. Because we sort of do that with our daughters, which is Beatty is. Oh, what's Beatty's? That's a long one for Beatty and Ella was Ella Bella Bingbone. Fish can fly. Ella Bella Bingbone Fish can fly as she became. Oh, yeah, we've got Beatty's one now. Yeah, that's a property. Yeah, it is. That couldn't be "Eek It Out." Yeah, that's Ella Bella Bingbone Fish can fly. And this one I just thought was lovely. And in the donkey. In the donkey. Where's that? This was. This was actually after your mum's stroke. Oh my God, I know exactly in the donkey. Yes. I've had a stroke. And once we'd got over the fact, and we knew what it was, and before the ambulance arrived, we just started to laugh because she could not say the right words. And she was going, "Oh, I love the mumbly bum." And you go, "No, no, no, no." And we sat there with tears running down our eyes. And I said, "Listen, if you go in, you might have to stay in overnight. I'll go and get some night things in case you go." Yes, yes. I said, "Where are they?" She says, "They're in the donkey." And we were still laughing about that as the ambulance arrived. I think they thought we were mad, or that I was extremely cruel. Because my mother said, "We just laughed and laughed and laughed." Well, I had rolled dolls desetan and discs recently. And when Patricia Neal had her stroke, he amassed this sort of vast glossary of all her manner of wisdom. She asked the snuff band at meaning the plate or whatever. And he made them into this glossary, and they became the BFG's vote cap. Isn't that extraordinary? Amazing, isn't it? And now I can't read the BFG in the same way. No, that must have been one of hers. Oh, that's fantastic. I love that. I love that. I love that. Lastly, this would be as a lot in the memoir. Flicking the Vs. Oh, flicking the Vs. We used to start flicking the Vs. I flicked my first Vs, probably in my first year, going home on the coach from school. So flicking the Vs. There's always a bit of a terribly popular, and the 70s flicking the Vs. I love it. Last people in cars and just go flicking Vs, flicking Vs. I love flicking Vs. What you didn't want to do is you didn't want to be flicking the Vs off the back of the coach, backseat, out the window, flicking the Vs at everybody. I love the coach stops and you go, oh no, hide, hide, quick hide. I love the opacity to that. Those girls at the back of your coach are flicking the Vs at me and you go, oh, where are you flicking the Vs? Well, that missed Jennifer Saunders. And I'm not going to flick the Vs. I'm going to low the Xs. Oh, actually that sounds like flicking your glasses. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do the Xs. I'm going to do the Ks. But I have absolutely loved it. Thank you. I'm so nice to see you. And you. And everyone who sends love. Sue, Lisa, Harriet, in space. Harriet, you're doing his show. Call me. Call me. I will. Well, Oodles of love. Oh, thank you darling. Lots of love. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. [MUSIC PLAYING] Talking to Jennifer has reminded me of arguably the very finest offerings of French and Saunders, the parodies. Parody, etymologically, comes from parra beside the same root found in parallel and owed. In other words, a work running parallel to the original owed with a view to market. Of course, when mockery is as sublime as French and Saunders, it can only be a compliment. Well, we've reached our full compliment of words and phrases. So I must bid you a very farge farewell. If you're hungry for more, remember this is the one lentil in the comments. I read with a bit. In the meantime, Oodles of love. This has been a monkey kingdom and a cast production.