Tom Middendorp - Een dijk bouw je niet tijdens een overstroming.

Support is available 24/7 with VerboCare. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help, because a great trip starts with the right support. ♪ ♪ Few things are as uplifting as the greatest moments in sports, and nothing brings us together quite like Team USA at the Olympic Winter Games. From NBC Universal's iconic storytelling to the innovative technology across Xfinity and Peacock, Comcast brings the Olympic Games home to America, sharing every moment with millions. When Team USA steps onto the world stage, we're not just watching. We're cheering together. This winter, we're all on the same team. Comcast, proud partner of Team USA. Hello folks, how are you doing? I'm going to say good morning to you because it's just after 9am in New York, here for a few days for some work, bits and boops, including actually some work for SoundTracking. But you join me on a kind of grey and misty Sunday morning as I am down near Canal Street looking out my window and my hotel. There's a few sirens being going past. It's been an early start here in New York, and that will not stop me bringing you another episode of wonderful SoundTracking. In fact, yesterday I walked 17 kilometers popping around New York to visit various sites. One of the places that I went to was the comedy club that Bradley Cooper talked about in our episode for is this thing on. And there's something really lovely I like doing anyway if I'm in a place where there's recognizable locations I'm going to look at Stelly. Oh my God, the queue was around the block yesterday, so I went and had lunch somewhere else. Anyway, our latest guest on SoundTracking is Tom Harper, director of Netflix, is Peaky Blindert, the immortal man. Tom's an absolute joy to talk to, and such a fantastic creative, a really collaborative creative as well, and so it was really lovely getting the chance to get some time with him. So Peaky Blinders, the immortal man, is set amid the chaos and turmoil as World War II is starting. So obviously the whole season of, although world of Peaky started, post-World War I, Tommy returns. Stephen Knight has always said that he wanted to finish Tommy's story, you know, World War II, and that's where we find ourselves in the midst of World War II. We start the film by seeing Tommy kind of in self-imposed exile, and there are various events that unfold, that encourage him to kind of step back into that Thomas Shelby that we all know and the kind of anti-hero that we love as well. And he's brought in specifically for personal reasons, but also on a bigger scale, to foil a Nazi plot, which was a real thing. It's the great thing about Stephen Knight's writing, is that so much of the story is pulled from real historic events, and this was a real thing. So I'm not going to say any more about it, because I want you guys to watch the film. I think the film's fantastic. I think that there is a wonderful addition of new cast in it, as well as those characters that we have known in love over the years. Sophie, as Ada, is just extraordinary. Barry Kulgan, coming in as Duke, Tim Roth, is just quietly terrifying. It's so good. A Rebecca Ferguson, oh my goodness. So Tom and I talk a little bit about the cast, we talk about the music, we talk about so, so many things. And the film was scored by Anthony Genn and Martin Slattery, and they worked on season four, and then were desperate to work on the film. And the great thing is, is that as well as Anthony and Martin, they brought in the fantastic Fontaine's DC, as well as other musicians, to work on original songs, and adapting things specifically for the film. So we're going to begin with their title, "Cue." [Music] [Music] I feel like my Christmases come early, because I get to chat to you. You're about this film and about music. How did they, I mean, you've got a history with Peaky anyway, so you kind of know how you know the world, you know where music fits into the world as well, and how important it is to that world. But this idea was presented to you, what made you want to come back and be part of the immortal man? I think just because I've had such a good time with the birth season, really. And obviously we didn't know what it would become at that time, and then sit back into watch it sort of take hold, and make his mark on "Poffer the Culture" was an amazing thing. You don't really know what's going to catch right there. And when it does, it's a lovely, lovely thing. We knew it was something special about it. We knew it had some magic to it, just because of the new level of cast and the level of the writing. And a feeling we had, so to come back, to come full circle, to do it again, another go at this kind of final chapter of this part of the story. I too could pass out. What do you remember about collaborating on the music side of things back when you started? Because obviously that was kind of set out by all two and those kind of first few episodes in terms of, "Right, we're going to do this." It's totally different. It's totally radical. And it's been such a benchmark, I think, since that point, and how people think about music with the episodic nature and stuff. But what do you remember about that world and kind of the excitement of what it gave you the opportunity to kind of do? Yeah, it felt very fresh at the time, and at least to me, having that anachronistic music, and I think that everything that Otto, the director of "X1 to 3" and Martin Fipps, the composer, "C" out was fantastic. But I think the whole show was like that. It was a bit iconoclastic, it was a punk. It was a punk. It was a punk. It was a reverend. The characters felt very modern, you know, the styling. And so everything about it was slightly heightened. But I think that sort of rings true, because I do think that despite things being anachronistic or from another time, I think you connect on a human level to things. And whether that's 100 years, go 200 years, go 1000 years ago. I think humans are pretty much similar. So maybe the storytelling device is, you can use it from a different period or the same, but the actual fundamental human emotions underneath it, the consistent. The film was fantastic, it really is. And it was so interesting, you know, I was lucky enough to, when we chartied back in August or something. And I kind of. I kind of. I saw like an earlier kind of version of it to see that kind of finishing. And even the journey that that takes. But with all that final music on it as well, and how that means. That's the biggest difference between when you saw it last and that one made the biggest difference. But it's significantly. Totally. The music being there. Yeah. And how. It's a character. Particularly because of the journey that Tommy goes on and these other characters within it, you know. And how we start at the film, and it's kind of quiet, and it's. You know, we've got ghosts, and then the music kind of replicates that in a way as well, and so it's beautiful. You know, who I spoke to earlier, his enthusiasm is infectious for what he just loves creating. It's amazing to chart him, but he wanted this. He felt like he could, you know, with his collaborators really kind of bring something to this. Do you remember that Gloss First Conversations? He'd talk about Zoom and then, two guys along a watch, Fontaine's DC, and Camden and stuff like that, and just kind of what he saw as being the vision. But you also find in how you wanted that to work together and collaborate on that. He really petitioned for it. And as he said, his enthusiasm was extraordinary, because, you know, he obviously worked on Season 4, but he hasn't liked done a huge amount of work for Scream before. Yeah. So, you know, I really wanted to make sure it was the right fit, but he was so enthusiastic about the drama. He was so knowledgeable about the world. He's so knowledgeable about, and film it in general. Yeah, he's a big fan of like Scoram film. Yeah, yeah, he's just a film lover, you know. He's an art lover in general, and think he just sort of thrives on the creative process, and anybody that's kind of getting off on that, he sort of feeds off. So, and yeah, so just, it just slowly became apparent that there was no other choice other than him to do it. But I also think that there's, you know, it needs a collaborative spirit for music for Peaky. And I think that one of the incredible things that has created in this, is it sort of you don't quite know where the score starts, stops, the soundtrack comes in, what's like a song, what's, you know, what's what. And it's all sorts of different things going on there, whether there's new covers of old tracks, whether that's artists that we know love writing new music, whether that's score, whether the score is performed by the same artists who have cringed the new tracks that might traditionally be seen, the set, June, there's a lot of blood, there's a lot of blood going on. I think probably in the past worked item, I think probably in the vast majority of films out there, you probably know better than me. Yeah, there is separation between the score and soundtrack, and to have something that is as blended and cohesive as this is quite rare. You've worked on films that pass through original music, it's been written for films, and this is another opportunity of that in terms of getting kind of incredibly relevant and current artists to contribute to the storytelling through the art that they're making, you know, green, for example, and that idea that he's creating lyrics as he's watching picture and stuff. That's an amazing immersion into the story in a way through different art forms in a way. Yeah, I mean totally is, and I think the two people that I've worked with the kind of really stand out in that respect is Mary Steenburgeon on Wild Row and Green Chatting on this. And that's interesting that both those people in their different ways have real connections to storytelling, you know, Green's songwriting, he's a poet, he really is a poet, he really is a poet, he really kind of, there is an unconventional narrative that you draw upon, but there's always a narrative that going into that sort of no surprise, he's so responsible so well to seeing, to a film or a cinematic, arena and the same Mary Steenburgeon, you know, being actually to really understand, you know, so we spoke about formal roles, is she understands that the storytelling behind it, I think that's why she's keyed into that. So yeah, it's interesting, there's definitely overlap. Yeah. [Music] [Music] [Music] I guess the kind of hard part there, or one of the kind of crafting it and sculpting it away, is kind of known word and when to have music. Choosing not to have it is almost as important as choosing when to have it. I mean definitely the thing that Aunt and Martin, is they're so prolific, they write so much music, you know, they write even before we start shooting, the first thing, soothe they came aboard, they just wrote a ton of music and they sent it over forward even started shooting, which was amazing because it just started to create this landscape, this tone, this feel for the film, and then we used that music while we were recording, like the number of the scenes we would play the music, -Oh wow. -To the tone, so that the cast of crude background artists could all kind of key off it, and now feed into the tone of the thing, and then the rushes would go back to Aunt, and they would write again, they would send that back to us, and then we would cut to the music, you know, often in film, you know, you deliver a rough cut to the composer, they write the music, they send it back to you. Whereas this was like music into the shoot, rushes back to bad, but it wasn't forwards, it wasn't forwards, it wasn't bad, it wasn't forwards, and then green started coming in, and again, not just once to one recording session, but over the course of many months. So if we all grew together, and again, that sort of, for me, is why, one of the reasons why it feels such a successful score. (dramatic music) (dramatic music) And Killian, you know, obviously, not just being a fan of music, but being a musician himself, you know, and how much did he feed into that? You know, this is a character that is so important to him, you know, exact producer on it, and kind of really committed to this character and tell in this story in the right way. How involved was he in those kind of music decisions and stuff as well? - Christine Tecroll, I'd say. You sound like he has got, he's got a very clear sense of, not only of musical taste, but also what's right for the show, you know, he lived and breathed this character and this show for a long time, - Yeah. - As a real clear idea of that identity. But, you know, as with all, you know, not just the music, but with everything else, you know, Killian's a really important touchstone, and it's lovely to be able to work with him to build it. And, you know, again, I felt I had a really great core creative team that would bounce ideas of each other, you know, and Killian, me, Steve, we'd all feed into it. - Because Steve's a big music fan as well, and he's got opinions on that side of things as well. - Yeah, he does, yeah, which is great, you know, that's what it's all about. - But yeah, it makes it easier when you've got someone like, and to Martin, you know, at the centre of it, putting it all together. And also just a willing, you know, like, to try things out. The other great thing about someone who writes so quickly and who's able to generate so much music is like, they're like, here's this, here's this. It doesn't work. Have this, have this, try this. We're gonna take, oh, we're gonna take that, we're gonna rework it, and we're gonna try this. That's not working great. We'll try this. - You've got the well-wind, right? - It's the same with the musical process, as it comes at you. Like, you just enveloped the music and start to finish. - Wow. And also all these relationships and characters that we see on screen as well, you know, and kind of crafting. Not necessarily themes, but the emotions, I guess, around those different sort of characters and relationships, whether it be, you know, with Duke and Tommy. And that's a really interesting kind of, an amazing dynamic to watch on screen. But how do you, what music forms that relationship? Or how much, you know, those are all kind of decisions as well. Was the bigger picture you've got those kind of small elements to it as well, I imagine. - Every film finds its own groove, doesn't it? - Yeah. - That this one was definitely a case of, because Martin's so prolific and it came so much music, it sort of just started to emerge through it. Yeah, what initially started out was just lots of general ideas. It wasn't a case like, on other projects I've worked on, where, you know, the composer will sit and think of a theme, and that'll be Duke and Tommy theme. - Yeah. - But which is like a very valid, very common way of looking. - Yeah. - It's much more like, okay, we're gonna try all of this stuff. Oh, that's interesting. Why is that working? Oh, let's draw upon that. We'll kind of pull the threads on that. We'll take the out, we'll try this. - Yeah. - And I'll take this to the next level. And that's even working even better. So we're gonna take that. I'm gonna put that, oh, what if we try that and move that there? Oh, and suddenly you start to see, so actually, you still get that kind of the key themes from Tommy and Duke, or that's Tommy's realization and redemption, or whether that's Beckett, you know, they're still there, but they're just sort of the process by which we arrived there was a different process. - Yeah. - And therefore the feel is slightly different. (gentle music) (gentle music) - I've gotta take a minute just to talk about the performances that you've kind of encouraged and captured and nurtured on this film because it's amazing to watch, you know, individually, when they're kind of on screen together, Rebecca Ferguson, and Killian is just, it's magical watching that dance, the conflidity of that kind of relationship on screen, what you mentioned Beckett with Tim Rothen, so how is that one of the things that you love about being director is kind of performance and how you capture it and how it's telling the story. - Yeah, I think so, I think it's my favorite thing really. And, you know, obviously, with the film out there, so you get to do a lot of fun stuff and stuff and stuff up and stunts and pick fights, pick fights and running right out of, that is great fun. - Yeah. - But the thing that I really find most exciting is the magic when you get to wonderful actors in Romeo, Rebecca Ferguson, Killian Murphy, sitting at a table, sparks fire, you know, that's being part of that magic when it comes, that's the thing that I really, really love most. It's the beautest, it's the beautiful writing combined with some of the best actors in the world and now he's a highlight. - It was amazing getting the opportunity to talk to Tim about being part of this and he's got such an interest and thoughtful take on it. You know, he really committed to being part of this project. It wasn't just the case of coming in and doing the job of stuff. He really kind of throws thoughts and opinions into it, doesn't he? Is that a kind of a dream as a director in terms of you? You've got someone that you can collaborate on that level with. - Definitely. I mean, I think that, again, that sort of part of that, that bit is so special about it because, you know, you have a scene, you read a scene, you have an idea about what it would be. Like, that's great. And then when you work with someone as brilliant as Tim, there's various things that can happen. Like, sometimes like Tim, they'll come up with a whole load of ideas and actually the character will shift from what's on the page and Steve rewrote some of that. So, fit of Tim's ideas of the character, which were really great ideas. Other times, you can just be, you can be on set and you, again, you have an idea of what it's going to be like, and then the actor will come at something from an angle you just hadn't seen before and. - And it surprises you. - Yeah. - That's really exciting. - I mean, I know it's too close to what was kind of reflect on sort of thing, but how was it for you? How was making this film? What are you kind of. - You're still in it too much. - Yeah, it's going to be right in a middle of it, man. I don't know. It was a very great filmmaking experience and the main fundamental reason for that is because Killian and Steve and I and Guy with the Juicer all really like each other, get on with each other and have a similar creative vision. - Yeah. - As you bounce ideas and yes, of course you have discrepancy, but those are like healthy, constructive, positive, exciting ways of collaborating and telling the story in the best way possible. - Yeah. - And if you are aligned like that, then all the effort goes on to attaining the best possible films rather than getting distracted. - Mm-hmm. - So because of that, it was brilliant and also because of that, you know, we were really ported to tell the story that we wanted to tell. So that feel was like a really good place to come. - Yeah. And visually as well, it's so beautiful. I mean, there's so many shots in the film that could be, you know, kind of just taken and hung on a gallery, you know, in terms of just being think of Ada, you know, just in that silhouette of heart and when Tommy's kind of sees her from the car and. - It's one of my favourite shots in the film. - Yeah. - For the film, Sophie is so brilliant, she's such a brilliant artist and that role that she's greater in Asia is so iconic. But yeah, that's working with George Till, my cameraman, cinematographer and I'm her met on the first season of "Peak to Linder" and he I've never seen some wild rose, on aerodrome, some like literally everything pretty much everything I've done has been with him since then. - Wow. - I'm not just him, but like his crew as well, like the Gaffa Wayne, like a lot of the same people were there. - On this, that was there, that's in his films. - That's amazing. - All kinds of also. - Yeah, totally. When you're prepping and you're thinking about shots and storyboarding or all that kind of stuff, there's a world there that we know, you know, and we kind of, the visual element of "Peakies" and other thing that kind of, you know, it was immediately so cinematic. But this is a different story and a different type of tale and of the story, it's cinematic, it's on the big screen and also just where we find Tommy as well. It's a different world that we've never seen before, we've never seen him in that situation. In terms of like references and things, did you have any particular things that were important for you to kind of inject to this kind of visually? - Yes and no. I mean, I think that the truth is you can't help but be inspired by all the things that have come for it, you know. - Yeah. - Be that Westerns, be that gangster movies, be that Scorsese. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, that stuff seeps into you and you can't exist without that being part of it. At the same time is try not to make it too much like that because there are other things and this is its own unique story. And there's so much to build upon as well in terms of, it is "Peakies" but it's also 90 years on, it's in the "September World War" so it's immediately, everything's changed. Birmingham has been bombed out, tutorial, fashions of chain, people wearing double press attributes, well, the single pressings, you know, the tone is different because there's that hedonism because every day you could have a bomb dropped on your head so it could be the last moment. So like the visual style, if all, is very naturally anyway. Having said that, we also did want to push it, you know, we did have more money to make this than we did on the series and we did have more time. And that's an interesting thing because, you know, I think in terms of scale and production value, in order to get those few more percentage points that are film, hopefully, of this type and caliber demand, it actually takes a huge amount of work behind the scenes and the change of the dynamic of the way that you shoot something to give you an example, like "Peakies Blinders are short" in a series, particularly season one, we shot really quickly. And what comes with that is a sort of momentum and a speed at which you shoot, which can be very useful in some ways. That creates this vibe, but that can be great. But for this, when you want it to be more composed, we want it to really think about what the shots are doing to capture the scale, it slows everything down. And again, like it took us a while to find that rhythm in the end. It's a different sort of thing. You want to blow something up, you kind of see it quickly at the end of the day. You've got to make sure it's safe, you've got health and safety, you've got to rehearse it, you've got to bring in all the special effects. So it's like it is a different year, it's got a different feel to it. But you have to kind of seize that and make that the thing that it is. Yeah. Well, it's an absolute joy to see on the big screen and it's such a great watch, Tom. It's lovely chatting to me. I was going to tell you very quickly the Red Right Hand. Oh, yeah, you were. Yeah. The only piece of music that was written in the script was Red Right Hand. Obviously, it's such a fundamental part. And I always hate watching Ruffus Embley's because it's the first time you shot the film. And it's all been a kind of labor of life and you know what it costs to get every single shot and the burden, the sweat. It's here. It depends on it. And then you watch it and the first assembly is never quite how you how you see it. Yeah, you saw it. So it's always a bit deflating. Yeah. But the one thing I was looking forward to was the moment where Red Right Hand kicks in. Because I was like, yes, that would be the moment. And so I was feeling all life that, you know, I got the level. And it comes out about Red Right Hand's coming up and it comes to that point. I'm like, yes. Red Right Hand has going to get any kicks in and it was totally wrong. And I was like, no, not Red Right Hand. What have we done? What have we done? Like, why isn't this working? What is going on? Like, what have we, how have we screwed this up? And then we started going back to him and thinking about what it was and why it didn't work. And we tried to change the edit in order to get it to work. But it just suddenly re-adorned me. The reason it doesn't work is because Red Right Hand was right. The Tommy 13 years ago, yeah, back in 1919 or whenever I was first set. When he was younger, he was stronger. He had a different energy, he had a different sort of, um, micismo. If you like. Now he's older, he's wiser, he's more broken. He's like, suffered the loss of a great many deaths, people who loved him. He was, it just didn't work anymore. So I thought, oh, wonder if, what I wondered is, if we could get Nick to re-record the song now, because of course, Nick's in the, yeah, because of all Nick's life has evolved. He's older, he has tragedy in his life. He said, dumb show had great many lives and positive, the negative things and Nick and, uh, were, and there's agreed to re-record it. And he, as you're here in the film, it's a very, it's the same song, but it's got a very different infection. And when we got that, we tried it and it just, to me, fits so beautifully and you get all the grit and the soul and the, the humanity, you know? Yeah. And I love it. I think it's a wonderful, wonderful version of the track. Take a little walk to the edge of town, go across the tracks. Where the via dock blooms like a bird of doom is achieved, and cracks. Where is secret slide in the border fires in the hummingways, and when you know you never come in. Pass the square, pass the bridge, pass the maze, pass the stones. And all the gathering stone comes a tall insomé, and it does keep black coat with a red ride. And I love that you listen to the film telling you that as well. Yeah. So I mean, it's amazing, isn't it? Yeah. Thank you so much. A few things are as uplifting as the greatest moments in sports. And nothing brings us together quite like team USA at the Olympic Winter Games. If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP. Because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip-off. And Granger is your trusted partner. Offering the products you need, all in one place, from HVAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-Granjure, visit Granger.com or just out by Granger. For the ones who get it done. My huge thanks to Tom for taking the time and more of the man is in select. And it was now and will be available to stream on Netflix from the 20th of March. Lots of those people that I've just mentioned have appeared on soundtrack in. Steven Knight, Killian, Tim Roth, Steven Graham, Rebecca Ferguson. They've all been guests on the show. I feel blessed and very grateful that I've had that opportunity. And you can find all of those interviews at edithbowman.com. You can also watch the interviews with Rebecca, Killian, and Steven on our YouTube channel, which is called Soundtrack and Extra. Please do subscribe. So I said at the start that one of the reasons I was out here was I had some soundtrack in mock to do. And that is because tomorrow morning I am in fact heading to chat to Killian Morphe and Anthony Gen. Here in New York about Peaky Blinders. And we'll share that with you for the end of the week. I very much look forward to the pleasure of your company. 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