Todd McShay on Jeremiyah Love, Ohio State's defenders & the Ty Simpson vs Fernando Mendoza debate

- Find me the flaws, I guess. He is everything that you look for. Just about every team I talk to in the league is his first, second, and third guy on their board right now. - These guys will be to your point, not just your best players on defense. They're gonna be the best people in your organization. - I don't know that I'd pass on sunny styles. - When I talk to him about football, it's like I'm sitting across from Kirk Cousins, just an absolute and the best possible way football nerd. (upbeat music) - Touchdown. These fans are the best of the country, but they like today is why we love college football. - And so here he is, one of my favorites, good friend and also a guy I just really respect in this industry, and particularly when we get to the draft process, Todd McShade joins the show. What's going on, Todd? How you doing, man? - Good to see you, man. Or we don't get to talk this time of year, so it's exciting, everything good? - Yeah, everything's going really well. Can't wait for this draft. I was, we were just talking before we jumped on. Kind of a busy month, I've got UFL starting and everything, and then the draft is, we're in the full swing of things. And like I said, you're one of the guys that I go to, not being a scout by trade. Your analysis has always been spot on. So I wanna jump in with you right off the top. And your top 100, which you can, by the way, get everybody, theringer.com/McShade, really good job. They do an awesome job. It's interactive. You can go into each player. They got heat maps in terms of traits and everything. So it's really good stuff. I suggest you go over there. Let's start at the top. Okay, so your number one player and a guy that I really love, I believe he's my number two player, Jeremiah Love. The conversation is always about running backs and value and this and that. What do you really like about Jeremiah Love? And then after that, let's get into kind of the value and where you see him going and how high he could potentially go. - You know, I've never, this is your 26 doing this. I'm aging myself, but. - Wow. - I've never had a running back, number one overall. And this year's, it's gonna be the exception. We've had Sequan Barclay, we've had Leonard Fornet and Christian McCaffrey that one year. We had Ashton Jinty, you know, I'm not saying his grade is the highest grade I've ever given to a running back because it's not, but it's right there, you know? And when you're gonna be talked about in this regard and forget my rankings and talking to NFL teams, like the lowest I've heard is they have them at like three on their board, on a team's board. So he's one of the best three, if not the best player in the entire draft. And you can, what do you want from a running back in order to value him there? Obviously the running skills, it's the instincts, it's like that cut he just made, like get out of here, you know? It's the ability to stop and start, it's the contact balance. It's having a sense of the cut back lanes. It's almost like a six sense with the vision. Then you have to elevate it too. And you see in this play that, you know, one of many plays where he breaks off a long run. That speed is not critical. It certainly isn't, you know? Emmett Smith is a great example at running back, right? But when you have it, it adds another element to your game. And especially if you can catch the football, which he does really well. And then even watching him on tape and then the combine, just like running routes and his ability, he is so oily in his hips and the ability to get in and out of breaks. And like that's an added element. And so he's got to be complete. And by the way, he was okay in past protection in 2024. You can tell that was a point of emphasis in the off season. He's facing up guys and sticking his face in the fan. And I just find me the flaws, I guess, you know? And certainly you always worry about running backs and the durability and kind of managing that load. And that will be for the NFL team that drafts him to kind of figure out what is best for him. But I just, he is everything that you look for. Now, yeah, you get into the question that you alluded to. Like, if you draft him in the top five, or I think, what did I look recently? If you drafted him at four or five, he's like the eighth highest paid running back in the league right now, right? So there is a way. Joel, there's a real economics discussion that you have to have about. Okay, he's the eighth, like, eighth highest paid running back. What if I draft, I don't know, David Bailey, ed rusher. Corner back, Montserrat d'Alain. What if I draft, you know, one of these, these other ed rusher, Ruben Bain. They're like, I don't know, 40th or whatever that number is in terms of what you're paying them. And you're getting, forget about quarterback. That's the greatest steal in all of sports. As if you hit on a quarterback, coming out as a rookie, and you only have to pay him that rookie scale. So it's why we're looking at teams like Arizona that needs a running back. Tennessee, they're picking it three, Tennessee at four. Giants, depends on scataboo and what his health is, but certainly he would provide an upgrade and create an attack there with John Harbaugh that now all of a sudden you get Jeremiah Love, scataboo and Tyrone Tracy with a quarterback who can run as well in Jackson dark. But I think it's why we're all looking and saying, maybe he falls to seven in Washington because he is a running back. And because of the economics of it. But again, just about every team I talk to in the league, is he's first, second, and in one case, third guy on their board right now. The, I couldn't agree more. I have him to Tennessee. And you know, you get it. When you love to see that man with table offensive coordinator and put him in the backfield cam ward. I would love that. And for me, you know, I think you can get away with even the economics you were talking about, but certainly even just the value up top, even inside of the top five, when you've got a guy that is not just a running back. And to me, he reminds me or can potentially become, maybe not McCaffrey. It's probably like a top six wide receiver in the league, but certainly a guy that can be a threat out of the backfield, a Jumir Gibbs and so, you know, so on. Bejon to me, that's where the, yeah, bejon is that way as well. And those, those are the guys that then you're like, okay, I'm not just paying him to be a running back. He's really contributing. I think he could catch 40 passes in a season and would be just fine. And then maybe the economics work out in particular way up at the top. I love him. I love his mentality, everything that you were just talking about. And he reminded me in his past protection, 'cause you're right. It wasn't outstanding before this last year, but now it's much better. And in that regard, it reminded me a ton of last year's evaluation of Travion Henderson. And I'm sure you remember that. He wasn't a great past protector and then all the sudden last year, he was the best past protector at the running back position in the draft because he would just sit in there and absolutely stone those linebackers. And love certainly has that type of trajectory in his film from a year ago. All right, now I would love to, and we'll get into Cordobax. Don't worry, everyone. And I know we'll always talk about Cordobax. I would love to hear where you think the depth resides in this draft. Is there a position group that you're really excited about? And in particular, just from a numbers perspective, there are a lot of, you know, X. For me, I think there's a lot of edge rushers, but for you, where do you go there? Yeah, I'm gonna agree with you. It's edge. I think second behind that would be wide receiver and we can get to that in a minute. I think the wide receivers will last a little bit longer than the yet. Here's the deal with this year's draft, right? It's a weird deal because we've got Jeremiah Love, we just talked about it running back. Caleb Downs in no particular order. Sonny Stiles, a linebacker, Downs at Safety. A guard in Venge, you want a from Penn State. And I feel like I'm missing, but we got an off-ball linebacker, a running back at Safety, a guard, four of the best players in this entire draft, okay? And so, and our Val Reese is gonna be an edge rusher, but he was an off-ball linebacker. So you look at this, the top of this draft, and that part of it is different than normal. It's this balance of, do I pass, and talking to general managers, guy, one of 32 seats, guys making the decision. When you talk to him at the combine, it's, you don't pass up on a Hall of Famer. You can't go broke, take into the best player. But then you get to the draft, and it's like, yeah, but man, look at what I, I can get an edge rusher for that price, or I can get a, you know what I mean? And so it changes. And so there's that element of this draft. Then the other element is you get these offensive tackles, who are all really good. Francis Maui know it from Miami is a big physical, better athlete than people want to say, right tackle. He's a right tackle. You've got, you get Spencer Fano from Utah and Caleb Lomu, but Fano is a, you know, top 10, top 15 pick. He played right tackle, played 11, starts a few years back at left tackle, but he's played right tackle the last two years, And he's got these short arms, 31 in a quarter. And that's got people scared, which by the way grew from the combine to the pro day and now 31 or 32 I should say. Yeah, it's a there's short shorter arm. So there's a concern with that. You've got, uh, Kaden Proctor, who's Alabama physically just everything you look for, but the tape is up and down Monroe Freeling just 18 starts at Georgia. Um, tape is up and down, but he's he's the most physically gifted of all these guys. They're all going to go. There's going to be seven offensive tackles. I believe they go in the first round. Absolutely six with Max Ian Achor, who's an awesome story. Uh, Arizona State came over to America at 13 years old basketball soccer player decided to play because an AAU basketball coach told him, you know, you just you look like a football player got an opportunity to play at East LA Community College. Fresno State's offensive line coach, like Sims, recruiting them to Fresno. He gets a job. Can you telling him brings him over from Fresno and he brings Max with them start six games doesn't know what he's doing in Arizona State takes his lumps. And now all of a sudden we're talking about him as a first round pick. So I know I'm long winded on all of this, but those tackles are going to go. And I think the edge rushers will go and we've got those other the six players, a lot of them had positions that aren't elite spots. Now you start to run out of you run out of real estate in the first round, right with Mendoza thrown in there, maybe a Thai Simpson. So these wide receivers that we're talking about in that middle eight first round range. I think we'll get bumped back a little bit and part of it will be because of this edge group because the shelf drops off at offensive tackle more so than any other position, but it drops off a little bit at edge too. But the guys who can get in the first round, I mean, we know about our values and the conversion he's making from off ball line back or David Bailey's the best pure past Russia, not great versus the run, but you get paid to get to the quarter back. Coming out of Texas Tech, then you got Ruben Bain, yes, the short arms and the shortest arms of anyone drafted in the first round in 20 years. And there's never been a double digit sack guy in the league with his arm length or in 20 years, at least going back in what we were able to uncover. But did you watch his tape in the college football playoff and then you get Caldrick Falk who's 20 years old and like has all the potential in the world and his production wasn't great, but his tapes a lot of fun to watch because he places. Ass off and he fights and he's dominant versus the run and then cash is how. I think he's the third best pass rusher if you're just going off the tape, but he's got the short arms as well coming out of Texas A&M and then a keen mess adore and I love the kid from the young man Gabeakis from Illinois. Yeah, you're higher on him than than most, but I I'm with you like that he can go. And and and and Missouri Zion Young. Absolute lunatic watch the watch the overtime coin flip, you know like he just but he plays like that and I kind of like when my when my edge rushers are a little bit loopy, you know. So I don't this class is loaded and I think I think teams are looking at this and saying that's where I get value in the draft if I can get a defensive lineman in the first round and have to don't have to pay him a lot of money. If you look at the annual salary in the NFL, it's quarterback one edge rusher to that's that's the hierarchy. And saving at that position is how you build out a roster that is most complete, you know, to to your point. I want to go back to something that you were touching on a little earlier and that is is these. I don't know what to call them like non traditional positions, you know, I guess maybe like old school positions, so you you mentioned sunny styles off the ball middle linebacker, you've got Caleb downs like a true safety. Those two in particular, you got you and you obviously the guard and we can get into that as well, but styles and downs. I cannot wait to see how these guys evaluate and then ultimately pull the trigger, you know, yay or nay on styles and downs because I think you would agree styles may have had the greatest combine that we've seen in a long time. Oh my gosh, it was insane. And then you realize that with guys like Reese on the field at Ohio State and and styles on the field at Ohio State and and McDonald who could be, you know, kind of borderline first round or defensive tackle. And yet, yet the entire defense was built for number two because he's just special Caleb downs was the entire focal point of that defense. And everywhere they have him, you know, rushing blitzing Matt Patricia called him the smartest player that he's coached at this level certainly and certainly a guy that had conversations that were, you know, veteran NFL level conversations just in his time at Ohio State. So what do we do with Caleb downs? Maybe a little undersized Todd, but like you turn on the tape and he's the best player on the field every game. I just, the tape always wins out for me and I can only drop him to number five. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I just, I watch him. You got to remember and I don't have to tell you, but Ohio State had eight players drafted last year. They're, they're, they're littered throughout this year's draft and especially at the top. Back and watch that tape. And I know you have more so than anyone who gets the step or two steps jump on every play. It's rare. It's rare. Like normally, like, I'm talking almost every play. He's sniffed some, there's a tendency that he's, he's prepared for. There's something that he sees where he's, and he's not playing. This isn't like a manual, Neil Warren playing at Toledo. This is at Ohio State with NFL dudes two years in a row. Eight guys drafted from last year. And he was so clearly the most instinctive player on that defense. So I don't care what he runs. And yeah, it's awesome watching, you know, these, these long, fast, explosive 40 plus inch vertical jump guys at the combine. But, but their tape isn't like his. So, and also you got a wonder to, and I even talking to this Scott Goldman from AIQ does the intelligence test and talked to talk to us about our Val Reese and, and how he tests different because of the spatial awareness and how he's a perfect guy to have a conversion and play multiple, where multiple hats. And, and I talked to an executive in the league, you said sunny styles. He's like, I promise you, when he's done with football, he's going to run a company. He's going to be a CEO. This guy is just as charismatic and like easy to talk to as he is intelligent. And, and, and quite honestly, the reports I got out of Indianapolis from talking to people on the league, like the on field stuff was awesome. That was fun. It was what happened in the meeting rooms getting to know this young man. And so we're not talking about a bunch of really great athletes who are kind of boneheads, like he's playing with some really smart guys, but Matt Patricia comes in, and he's known as you well now is one of like the smarter defensive minds. He's also known as a great teacher and that that was a big part of why in such a short span with eight guys leaving for the NFL year ago, they were able to be so complex and so dominant, starting with that first game Archmaning in Texas. But there's a leader of that group and there's a guy who sets the bar and I'm looking at team like the Giants at five as you're trying to with John Harbaw coming in and and my gosh could Cincinnati use a player like that. I could Dallas use a player like you need someone who's going to come in and raise the bar to everyone around them better. I can't think of a better guy than Caleb Downs and right behind him would be sunny styles to be honest with you. Yeah, and getting to know him, you know, and you alluded to it. I mean, there's not a team that I call more of their games than the Ohio State. Yeah, that's true. I'm around these guys constantly. And honestly, as good as they were on the field, I was always more impressed both of them off the field. And our conversation is just, you know, at the lunch table and what we would talk about sometimes football, sometimes not football. Each of these guys will be the capital of the Ohio State lunch table, by the way, that's right. It's a great deal, dude. It's a it's an awesome deal. But these guys will be to your point, not just, you know, could be your best players on defense, they're going to be the best people in your organization. From a buy-in standpoint and a leadership standpoint, I put Downs to Dallas at 12, but only because I mocked in a fairly traditional way in terms of positional value and need and these types of things. But I look at a Cincinnati or even John Harbaugh, you know, sitting there and it's like, can these guys actually pass on these players? I don't know if they're going to be able to nor do I think that they probably should in particular with John Harbaugh's history and how great they are on defense with versatile players. And everyone's like, well, he's not as big as Kyle Hamilton. Fine, fine. But Downs is as good of a safety as I've evaluated in my time and I haven't done it as long as you, but I think that that's a fascinating deal. Well, and we're looking for in the league and so much of college football has trickled up. It was the opposite for so long, but as with the spread offices and some of these. the RPO stuff and the defense of, you know, adjustments to it, right, and we've seen, you know, like the three, three, five and different defense of adjustments. But the biggest thing personnel wise was you now got to have guys who you can keep the same 11 on the field and you can line up if they want to line up and run the ball at you or because they're going to have versatile personnel as well. And so in this positionless defensive era, if you will, sunny styles and downs. But it's like sunny style. I look at the jets and I'm like, I don't know. I get it like our Val Reese in the conversion and I think he's going to be a great player. I don't know that I'd pass on sunny styles. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, just because he's not just an off-ball linebacker. And by the way, you go look at the analytics of it, like when they, when they did deploy him as a pass rusher, he was just as effective in the limited, you know, pass rusher temps. Plus, he's in more hang. He's a former safety. I was just going to say he started as a safety in his career. So he's played the third level, you know, four Ohio state, which is something to be said for this. There's only like five or six guys in this class where I'm like, I can't see how they fail. Yeah. You know, and those two, so those two, those two. And then I'm assuming Jeremiah love Jeremiah love, and then who are your other guys? I would throw our Val Reese in there because at the very worst, he's still a damn good off-ball linebacker. You know, who can rush those four Jeremiah love sunny styles, our Val Reese Caleb downs. I honestly would throw in the guard, you want a, you want a, yeah. And the other guys, I can see a path for failure, even though I think they're great and I rank them very high. For now, let's take the quarterbacks out, but like David Bailey's not a great run stopper. And so that, you know, and and Ruben Bain has the shorter arms, I'd love his tape. So, you know, some of the tackles have only played right, you know, could they play left, you know, what are they going to be in past protection? There's a question mark in some of those. Yeah. So smart. Can play man and can play zone and he ran really well, but like I put him just a tick behind. So all those guys, I'm putting a tick behind, but my point in this is, it's hard when you're looking at these guys and they're like, I am certain. It's not a position I want to draft, but I am certain this guy is going to be great at what he does and make a lot of people around him better. I don't know. But I think that I would agree with that 100% and then you get to the quarterback question. And as we know, I'm big on fit and then I'm big on experience. And this has been born over the last few years. Not that I was the first one to talk about this, but I talked about this a few years ago. Now for about six years, Todd, I've kept track kind of hit me and I was like, man, everyone that wins a Super Bowl had a really long college career, productive college career at the quarterback position. So I went back and I was like, I want to actually see this because it was just like an intuition. This is about again, like six years ago and I went back and it was basically like the lowest amount of starts that a Super Bowl winner had had in college was like Tom Brady at 26 or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But he was doing that for a long time and kind of a weird deal there, but yeah. And then, you know, the next lowest now to date is Sam Darnold in the mid 20s. So like the average college career for a quarterback and just like 25, 28, my home and Josh Allen are both sub 30, but they're above 20, I think like 20, they're, they're there though. But they're super human too, but yes. The average college career for a quarterback that wins a Super Bowl is 34 starts and well over 1,000 attempts. You know, so, you know, I think it's like 1,400 attempts and so like it's, it's, and every year. We've got all these stats, metrics and we got all like the ball velocities and our angles and all this stuff. And maybe Parcels wasn't an idiot back in like the 90s and early, you know what I mean? It was, it was 25 starts then and that was the baseline. It was, you know, college graduate, it was all these, all these things. And so now you've got Mendoza, you know, and he has that experience now. People, I think in this era and the transfer era, you're like, wait, is he that experience? Like, yeah, yeah, he started a ton of games. Meanwhile, Ty Simpson doesn't have that experience. And here's, you know, the, the really talented, although maybe a bit undersized one year starter. And I got to tell you, tell you more than anything else, more than his size, more than, oh, you struggled in the SEC championship game against Georgia or anything like that. It's the fact that he didn't start for two years that scares me more than anything. I know. And so when, when you look at these two and I'm assuming, you know, you're like the rest of us, Mendoza, Ty Simpson, you know, like, what are your thoughts? There's so many different ways to go here, right? After nine weeks or so in the season, Ty Simpson was the guy. I'm like you. I study all this stuff and I, and I went on a big rant this summer about about a lot of this and have done it before. I like your numbers, though, I'm going to have to incorporate that. I hadn't done the Super Bowl winning averages. Oh, dude, once you see it, once you say to like aggregate those things and you're going to be like, oh, of course, this is so good. When you have so much more opportunity now, I was talking to Chris Ballard who keep taking his hacks and hopefully Daniel Jones will come back healthy. But he's built this organization, reminds me a lot of Chris Spillman, sorry, Rick Spillman, Chris's brother. I worked with Chris for a long time with the Vikings that couldn't get the quarterback position right. But like, my gosh, he's a great general manager, you know? And the thing he keeps saying is you got to take your hacks, but even talking to Ballard, he's like, honestly, the most important thing he's saying exactly what we're talking about here is there's an opportunity with NIL and transfer portal that was never there before. And like, I'm urging every young man to go back and play with Ty Simpson, nine games in. He was the best quarterback in the country. And like, I defy anyone to tell me different because I watched that because I prepped for Wisconsin and they had played Bama and like, his game against Wisconsin was insane. Like the throws he was making were insane. And even like the lost of Florida state, there was like a lot of good tape in there, like the scheduling, the pre snap, the indicators, the NFL stuff they're running. His brain is operating already like an NFL brain and you would expect that if you get two guys in this class who don't have great size, don't have great tools compared to Fernando Mendoza, six five, who's up to almost 240. They don't have tailing green tools. They don't have Cole Payton from the North Dakota state tools, but two guys that have been around Ball their whole life who are kind of trying to be outliers and Ty Simpson and Garrett and Usmeyer with their, their fathers and what they grew up around Usmeyer. Dad is the offensive coordinator of the Saints. He's been a quarterback coach in the league and he was a quarterback himself in the league. And Simpson's dad is 20 years at UT Martin. He's a head coach. So you, I just wrote this article, man, outliers suck. It's the worst part of the job because there's phase one of it. And I know I'm bouncing around here, but it's phase one. Oh, I love this. This is so good. Where the tape sucks you in. It's like intoxicating. And I'm watching Ty Simpson, the pre snap motions, identifying the coverage as post snap. They're, they're changing the looks, the safety's, and he's, bang, bang, bang, bang with his progressions. And he's getting the ball out on time and he's anticipating it. He's hitting spots and it's like, wow. I remember writing it like a note down like this can't be a six game starter. There's nothing about this that's a six game starter when I was watching him. And then, and then they progressed and there's reasons and you can make excuses for it and they're legitimate excuses. Venables figured out how to get to the quarterback and then from that point on, that past protection started to fall apart. Much more. And their protection plan was never very good. It wasn't great. And so there's a blueprint there, but more importantly, the 125th in the nation, like Bear Bryant, like tear up the, the graveyard, 125th in the nation running the football. Your number one wide receiver, Ryan Coleman Williams, now I guess, is kind of disappeared. And he winds up taking all these hits and getting gastritis and by the rose boys, 190 pounds. So you got all those factors that explain the why. And at the end of the day, look at Fernando last year. I remember this summer doing a, doing a full breakdown on him and wasn't planning on doing it. I'm like, I don't know that anyone cares. I'll watch his tape. We'll see what it is like in Indiana. And then I got talked in and let's do a show on Fernando and I watched his tape and I was done. I'm so glad. we did this, I think he's going to be a first-rounder. I think he's got that kind of ability, but he is not there yet. Turnover worthy plays, mistakes, forcing things, trying to carry a Cal team that didn't have the talent around him. But look at the difference between him this year and the structure he had, and to your point, the experience he got. And those first eight, nine games were tied Simpson was out playing him, because let's face it, he wasn't good in the Oregon game until the end. He wasn't that good in Iowa until the end. Well, the the pick six at Oregon was was a real ortho, brutal throw, the pick against Iowa, almost beat him, but it was the series after pick against Penn State was a terrible one, almost beat him. It was always the series after where he came out and was lights out, just bam, bam, bam, right down the field and would lead them to a victory. That's always what impressed me the most. Yeah, like what do we want to see? Some guys got it, some guys don't, you know, and and he so clearly has it. I'll say I couldn't go and I was like first to market on Mendoza, right? Back in the summer, this guy's the first round. I remember Pete Thamble's texting me like, yo, you sure? He's like, yeah, maybe. And then everyone else at Fernando Mendoza was a number one pick. I was like, I was slow down. I'm not sure. Ty Simpson's out playing him. That Ohio State game changed it all for me. And everyone talks about that hit with with Kaden Curry. And that was the first play. First play, bounce a few snaps back like it never happened. Also, did you see, I know, I know you did, but not talked about is later in the game, he's in the back, he's in the end zone throwing out and Curry gets him again. Helm the smash on the ground. He got beat up all day long. And I don't care if they scored. I heard Orlovsky in all of it. And I understand that. And I'm, I'm higher on Ty Simpson than most. I'm just, I'm not going to go that far. The thing that I see with that's different with Mendoza is against that defense we just talked about. Six points in the first three quarters, great. If you just watch that tape, it's off platform. It's not RPO stuff. It's not the stuff that people were talking about early. It's tight windows. It's situations. It's knowing where to go to the ball, protecting the ball. We don't talk about that enough with Fernando. I, like, yeah, he's not as talented as Drake made or Caleb Williams or Jaden Daniels. He's not as talented as Kim, as Kim Ward. I get it. I don't think, I think the floor for him is extraordinarily high because he has some, like Tom Brady is no question why they, they're already having Brian Greasy work with him with the connection with the, you know, Shanahan and Kubiak and all that. Like that's a done deal. And it's a done deal because they see, I think, that organization a lot of what drove Tom Brady to become what he was in the way he, the way Mendoza prepares and how obsessive he is with this game. Obsessive personality. Yeah. Loved my meetings with him is a football nerd in the best possible sense when I talk to him about football. It's like I'm sitting across from Kirk Cousins, just an absolute and the best possible way football nerd loves it. Absolutely loves it. Loves his teammates. His teammates love him. I think that's a, that's a big part of this. And then here's another part that's really hard to like evaluate in a draft sense. And you know, I don't, I don't want to be critical of Dan because you and I, like I played with Dan, Dan's a friend of mine. Oh, I, yeah, I text with Dan. I love Dan. We're 100%. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. I just, I got fresh, not frustrated. It's not the right word. Let me just go into, it's really hard when you're evaluating a player to based on, you know, you're watching game film. Sometimes it's a cut up and everything. And sometimes you can lose sight of situational football. I think it, right, it happens to you at times, right? It happens to me all the time. You can just be like, I'm just evaluating play after play after play. And you can do that in a vacuum. And you're like, okay, I'm just trying to what are his traits? What is his skill set? But, but the problem with that is that at that position, as you know, and, and I certainly remember, it matters so much more what you do when it's an obvious down situation, when it's third down, when you're backed up, when the clock is running down, when it's the last possession of a half, when it's the last possession of a game, those snaps just mean more. You know, granite, a mistake anytime can, can kill your team. But this is always what jumped out to me when calling his games and preparing for his games, covering Indiana, is how well he played when he had to play well. And that's not always the case, Todd. As you know, we see talented quarterbacks all the time that when you evaluate them in a vacuum and you're just watching skills and traits, man, you can fall in love with them. But then if you put in a cut up of, I want to see what he does on third and seventh plus. I want to see what he does in, you know, down by a possession or up by a possession. I want to see what he does. Red zone. I want to see what he does backed up. I want to see what he does, you know, when the clock is is down inside of a minute or two minutes, all those situations. If you put that cut up of of Mendoza on from last year, it's insane. It's insane. He was like, his production and the red zone and 27 touchdowns. No, no, no, no, no. It's crazy. So here's a couple of things that I really love that he does in those situations and these are traits and skills that then translate to the game situation when you have to play well. And I used to talk about this with Michael Pennick's a lot when he threw the ball down the field. He threw with great leverage, where it wasn't true 50, 50 situations for his wide receiver. He was creating 60, 40s and 75, 35s for his wide receivers all the time with ball placement because he threw with great leverage. Well, Mendoza does the exact same thing. I texted with Dan and Dan was like, well, it's always back shoulder. Yeah, because that's the right throw in all of those situations. And in particular, on third downs and fourth downs, he throws with great leverage from a skill set and he's hyper accurate in those situations. So long, long kind of dissertation to tell you like, I love Mendoza. And we did this on one of my shows and I would love for you to answer this question. And I know this one's just like kind of right off the bat. I didn't prep you for this. We did this thing where it was like, if you had one drive game on the line and you could take Mendoza, Caleb Williams, Cam Ward, any of those young quarterbacks, who would you take? And dang it Todd, like I think I would take Mendoza. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I'd be it would come down to Mendoza and drink maybe. Sure. But yeah. Yeah. And I'm also I'm armed with with what I've seen in the NFL so that which is it fair, but we're talking college career, absolutely 1,000%. But even knowing what I know in the NFL, I still may. He's different. Like his pro day was was was today. And just listening to him talk. And I don't I don't think he's been around Brady much. But like you get that same vibe where he's focusing on things that like if you're in a classroom in like high school and this kids talking when you know what the arm raised, he's annoying. Right. Right. Like all right. Stop trying to talk over us. But then like armed with all these 26 years of doing this and listening to the things he's focusing on as a young man. I'm like man, he gets it. You know, he kept telling to me this last year. He's like every day. I'm just trying to be the best for an end of Mendoza. I can possibly be which sounds nerdy. Like you said, if it's in a high school classroom, you're like roll your eyes and you're like, oh, okay. But when it's real, then then there's something to it and clearly can drive you towards being a great player in the future. So I certainly know what else I think that's the case. You know what else I think really like if maybe you can go back and do your Super Bowl study with this. I value adversity and like not necessarily the chip and like the stuff that we like to talk about on TV. But I think as human beings, we've all been through different levels of adversity and like what and certain people can can it sounds great. Well, he picked himself up the mat, you know, and he bounced right back and he manned that guy handles adversity well. But like only one human being in the world can live through that failure, that insult, that embarrassment and tell you what it was like to have to manage that internally and tell yourself, I'm still who I think I am. I'm still that guy. And now I've got now I'm in a tougher spot to go prove it because I'm not a five star. I'm not, you know, I'm not who they thought I was. I'm not and like those moments and I know I'm like the old man now talking about life and maturity, you know, but those moments they make us and they define us really, right? And so For Brady, we know what that was, 199th pick. And some of the struggles at Michigan. Well, yeah, I mean, he was competing at Michigan. And so a lot of times with these five stars and the entitlement, and it's always right here, you know. Sam Darnold's a perfect example, man. He's five star, USC, Golden Boy, you know. Weather's perfect. Everything's set up for him. And then he comes in the league and it falls apart. And it's like taken away from him. And he wonders, am I ever going to be that guy again? But I still believe I am. And you have support cast around you. Yeah, for Sam, it was his family. And I know I've gone through my stuff. It's my family and the closest people to. And so Fernando, it was like even talking about it today again. Like, stars don't matter. Stars don't define Fernando Mendoza. And so I like the fact that he's coming into the league and he's already had some of that. Yeah, you know, and it was no scholarship offers. It's it's Yale. And then you get one kind of, yeah, you can come and come to Cal. We'll pay for your pay for school. And he's got to grind his way up the depth chart. And he's still even when he's starting, he doesn't have a lot of talent around him. He's going up against Miami and something. So I just like that he's been through all that, man. All right, last thing I want to get into are the wide receivers. We haven't done that yet. I like the class a lot. I think it gives you a lot of variability. You know, like, you know, you got, you got your prototype guys. You've got guys that maybe fit more modern NFL football with what they can do out of the slot and in space. My top three are carnel tape, Makai lemon, and then Omar Cooper. Because I think Omar Cooper is being slept on a little bit in this draft. I think he's a phenomenal player, particular with the ball in his hands, once he gets the ball in his hands. But this wide receiver class, you know, what do you like about it? I like a lot of what you said. And I said off the top that I think they could get, it could get bumped down a little bit because of, we need tackles. We need, you know, we need edge rushers. But I think we're going to see when that second run, if you will, it's going to be some mixture of carnel tape, probably the first receiver off the board. It could go, I mean, it could go as high as 10 of C at four. I don't foresee that. It could be the giants at five. I think, I think seven. I think that six, sorry, the Cleveland Browns. And somewhere in that four to 10 range, right? Then I think you're going to see a lot of offensive tackles and edge rushers. And I think we're going to see, kind of, Makai lemon mixed in there from USC, who I just, the thing I like about the small guys is they're all tough, not all of them, but a lot of them are tough. And so for a limiter, certainly tough. For a limiter, like absolute dogs, man. And so those guys are going to go, I believe, I believe that lemon will go second. And then it could be Jordan Tyson. The injury stuff is going to be what fluctuates his stock and where he winds up going. And then I think Cooper's right there. I think Denzel Boston, a big receiver in X. I think he's being slept on a little bit. I think he's a first round pick. And not like, oh, maybe fringe. I think he's going to go in the first round there. NFL teams are looking for big receivers. The Patriots are trying to get one from the Eagles. The Eagles give up theirs. Maybe Boston goes there. And if the AJ Brown doesn't go to New England, maybe that's where Brable finally gets his big X receiver. After that, I think you see a little bit of a fall off. But my gosh, man, I was watching this tape. I had to get down to late third round before I started seeing receivers that, I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if maybe he's the number four. I mean, I'm just looking at this list. It's loaded with smaller guys like Zach Branch, Zach Raya Branch, who I think he's more than just a gadget guy. But some people in the league do super explosive, shifty quick. He ran more of an NFL tree when it was at USC. Chris Brazel, the second. How about that Georgia game? Six for 200 pounds. He ran like a 436 or something crazy at the combine. Can get in and out of his breaks a little bit. Malachi Fields is a big X. Didn't have the production. Not as shifty. Ran in the four sixes. But he'll go, I think, late second, early third is another big receiver. So you've got your big guys, you've got your small guys. Casey Concepcion is a heck of a player too. After the catch, return game. I'm just kind of ranting on Antonio Williams. Every time I watched a receiver, Joel, I was like, this guy's underrated, you know? Yeah. Antonio Williams, I get like club nick the past game. It didn't go as planned. This guy does the dirty work over the middle. This year, I saw him settling into zones and getting open more with his instincts and his feel. Attacking the ball and transitioning up the field better. I like Antonio Williams. You got Chris Bell from Louisville. Everyone's given the AJ Brown comp. And I get it like catch the ball and just coming off the injury. But apparently he's had a schedule. So he could go in the second round. And then you have Bryce Lance. Yeah. Trey Lance's younger brother in North Dakota state. That show we put on at the combine. You see it actually on tape too. Um, and yeah. I mean, a lot of Surat. You could throw him in there. Yeah. If you like, if you like big physical guys who get your first downs and know how to run the back shoulder. As well as anybody after studying Devante Adams with Aaron Rogers. So Dion Berks. Dion Berks. I don't get the production part. But I do get when you have you. I mean, look at their quarterbacks before. It's here. Dion Berks is a is a vertical. Under size vertical guy. Whether you put him in the slaughter outside. That's what he is. Well, it's hard to be a vertical receiver when you had. No, one one even mentioned names. Those quarterbacks a year before. And then John Matier. With the thumb injury. If you look at his production. Dion Berks' production. Against what was. Auburn and Michigan. Yeah. Michigan for sure. Okay. His production those two games. And then his production when when Matier had a little bit of time off and looked a little bit more. John Matier asked in the in the college football playoff. If you combine those three games against those defenses. And if he was on that trajectory. His we wouldn't be talking about the production thing. Yeah. They had to go to the better. Was a satan on the other side. Who is a run after catch guy. So anyway, I just. I kept going and thinking that it was going to fall off a little bit. I think there's so much depth in this class. In the second and third round. It's unusual. How many good players are to be found. I think there's going to be a massive run on day two and day three. Okay. Last thing before we get you out of here. Your. The fit the player to the location that you're rooting for the most. What's the one player in this. You just want to see it. It's the right fit. Like this is this is what you hope for. Um. I'm going to be careful with this one. I do want to see desperately. I know too much. No, no, partly, but also. I don't like just because I want it. Doesn't mean it's happening too. So I got to be careful of that. Um. I. You know what I want to see. I would love to see. Cassius Howell. Because I don't see the short arms on tape. I recognize they're there. I don't see it on tape. Like I watched. I watched a handful of other guys with 32 and 5/8 inches. 33 and 3/8 inches who didn't play who played with shorter arms on tape, right? Cassius Howell's tape is so explosive. And it like from the first step quickness to the change of direction to the lower body power creating power from the ground up. And then. And then. I can't think of it. I can't think of it. I can't think of it. So, but then I watch him in coverage. You know, zone, zone drops. Looks good. Looks smooth. And then he's like, man to man against the Florida slot receiver. And he's like in and out of breaks with them. I just think he can do so many things. I would love to see him in Brables defense. I would love to see. And I don't. I think they'll probably go in a different direction. But I think about. Landry. And how like with Tennessee and New England. I just, I think that that would be a really fun fit. But at the end of the day, I want, I want to see Jeremiah love and Tennessee. I want to see Dable with cam. And he loves Jackson dark. But, but I'm privy to how much they were willing to give away to go get cam ward a year ago. We're stable driving that bus. And it was a lot. He loves cam ward. And this. So if it wasn't going to be a head coach and job, that was a lot. If it wasn't going to be a head coach and job, that, that was a spot he wanted. And now you had a Jeremiah love, which I don't know that that's going to happen. But we'll see. I'd love to see that. That next. Hey, man. I can't thank you enough for your time and your knowledge. You do an incredible job. That's just fun, man. You can find Todd on his show, the McShay show on Netflix. Wherever you get your podcast, Spotify, all of that. Then you can check out his really good coverage on the ringer dot com slash McShay. Go check that out. It's, it's awesome. And dude, I appreciate it. Always great to talk with you. Always great. It's a, it's a fun time of year. And it's good, good to get with you on this. And then look forward to the season. I mean, it's around the corner. It's a scary part. But you said, I mean, you have fell and you get all these re. I mean, you're a busy man. You need a little longer. You're a busy man. I mean, it's a busy man. You're a busy man. You're a busy man. You're a busy man. off season. Let's get you some June and July, huh? There we go. We'll take a break then and then we'll dive right back in for the college season. I appreciate your time, my man. Have a great day. All right, brother, you too. Man, that was very fun and a big thanks to Todd McShay for coming on the program. Hey, if you have not subscribed to the show, make sure to go do that over on YouTube. You can hit that subscribe button. Also hit the notification button. You'll know when all of our content drops here during the course of the off season as we ramp up here towards the NFL draft. You can follow us on social media wherever you like to social media. That's at Joel Clatchew. You can get all of our content and shorter form. And you can follow us during the course of the off season there as well. We'll be back next week with more coverage as we lead up to the NFL draft. And just remember, all off season, we're going to be here. We're going to dive more into the college stuff after we get done with the draft and we'll get you all ramped up for next season in college football, that's all happening right here on the Joel Glacier.