To Love is to Be Heard, Not Just Listened To

From Giving Too Much to Relearning What Love Is Hi, what's your name? Speaker 2 Jen. Speaker 1 And what do you believe about love? Speaker 2 I think to love is to be heard and not just listen to. Speaker 1 What did you believe about love before that? Speaker 2 I felt like what I thought love was, was just trying to be there as much as possible, solve their life issues, be be there through the good and the bad. Like I still do believe that that's a part of love, right? But I don't think it's the whole thing. And in that time in my life, I felt like it was the whole thing. I didn't realize like all the smaller like little aspects of love. And the time where I was dating, like my ex before my three-year relationship, I used to give him money all the time because he was not financially stable, you know? And like, I thought that, you know, this was love because it was like I was helping him out. I was making his life easier, right? Anytime, like he needed to be somewhere or anything like that, I would show up for him. I would hear him out in terms of like whenever he had like issues going on at home or issues going on with friends. So like, not to say that's not a part of love, right? I still believe that is in essence a part of love. But in that time of my life, I felt like it was the only thing. And then when I got out of the relationship, I felt like I didn't really know him because it's like I never really fully like heard him out as a person to understand and learn him. Speaker 1 And how long did you date for? Speaker 2 Six years. Speaker 1 Wait, that's crazy. Oh, wait, six years and you felt like you didn't know him. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 What do you mean? Like how? How do you date somebody for six years and not know that? Speaker 2 Well, for starters, it was like a high school into college relationship. So still really young, still having like very, what's the word for it? Like very complicated ideas of love. Because I feel like social media and like just media in general has like has so many things out in terms of like making things work in toxicity, you know, And in high school, like, I was that relationship was insanely toxic. Like it wasn't OK. I never really learned who he was because there was so many different things going on. And even though even then, it's like, I still, you know, obviously got out of it, but I feel like I never really knew him 'cause I still like, even when things were good, it was like I was so fixated on like, what's another thing that I could do for him? How else could I show up in the relationship? How do I keep him around? How do I maintain this? Speaker 1 Understood. And so when you say like, how do I keep him around and things like that, it's like you, you were doing things for the relationship, not for yourself. Speaker 2 Exactly. Speaker 1 So when you were going through a relationship, you feel like something was missing. Speaker 2 Oh yeah, the whole time I felt like love was the thing. I don't think that there was ever like genuine love within that relationship. So that's why I feel like I had like a really skewed view of love because my first experience with love wasn't a good experience. So then when I got into the three-year, it was like basically learning, relearning all over again, like what is love or what does it mean for me or how do I want it to show up in my life? So I still like took things that I did in the previous relationship, you know, trying to make his life easier and trying to be there for him as much as I could and what not. But also learning like other things like learning to compromise, learning to hear him out as a person, understand, like his complexities, understanding what they like, what they dislike, the seeing the little things and hearing the little things and making sure that they're seen in her and as a person. Yeah. Speaker 1 And so I guess like after that relationship, what did your idea of love turn into? Speaker 2 I think I feel like I'm still working on it. I feel like I'm not fully there yet. Right now I'm taking like a hiatus from like dating and just like being in relationships 'cause I feel like there's a lot that I need to learn about myself first. I still think that an aspect of love has to do with like giving, but not to the point where you're losing yourself. And I feel like a lot of times in my relationships, that's exactly what I did. So while I feel like you still, you know, there are parts of you that you should get to your partner, it's like also learning like the balance in it all and learning like how much is too much? And what is your boundary in terms of like certain different things that you can give and making sure that you're maintaining your boundaries as a person and like for yourself. So I think like it's still a work in progress, still something that I'm definitely learning about myself and accepting about myself, I think. The White Rose & Empanada Test: Hearing vs. Listening No, I think that makes sense. When you talked about what it was like to not be known, can you can you kind of explain what that looks like? Speaker 2 For me to not be known is like, I think not, not seeing the little things about me or not seeing me as a person, like seeing me as a partner and that's all you see me as. Not seeing me as like a friend or a person or just like someone that has like their own life, their own life and their own things like going on. Speaker 1 How would you tell? Like I guess what, what does it mean to see someone as a partner versus a person? Speaker 2 I think it's like you expect them to be there in the good and the bad and you expect them to meet certain needs that you have and expect them to to kind of sometimes put themselves to the side or put their boundaries to the side. So it's like you don't necessarily see them as a person with feelings and emotions anymore. You see them as like an emotional support. You see them as your partner. You see them as like a person that is meant to be there to help you through life, but it's not like you're, we completely forget that like even though they are a partner, it's like they still are a person that is doing their own thing, living their life, working, going to school, having like different experiences and like not taking any of that into consideration because you see them just as your partner. Speaker 1 And so if you felt like just as like a partner and you felt like he didn't know you, how did it show up in the small ways that he didn't know you? What did that? Speaker 2 Look like, OK, so basically like my favorite flower in the whole wide world are white roses. I love white roses, have always loved white roses. They've been like a big like huge part of my life because I think they're just so special. So I do have a White Rose tattooed on my back and like it's very like clear to anyone that like knows me or is around me that I love white roses. And my partner in this time knew that too. He was fully aware that I have a White Rose on my back tattooed on my back. If you ask him now, he would probably say my favorite flower is a White Rose. Like that is something that is like was known, known information basically. So then the time came where he finally got me flowers. He was also a person that never got me flowers. I love flowers. But when the time came that he finally did, he got me orange flowers. And, you know, I still appreciated the thought. But it's like, if you are fully aware that I love white roses and I have it, I'm, I've gone as far as tattooing it on my back. It's like, did you hear anything that I said? Did you do you know what I actually like? Or it's kind of just like whatever you like. And then a couple months after we had broken up, I rekindled with a high school friend, hadn't seen this friend in maybe like 8-9 years about. And I was having a really bad week because with my clients and like, it's just, it was just a hectic week. And we were going out that night. We were like going to go out to a bar and we were just going to like, you know, get my mind off of things and just like have fun and relax. And they showed up to my doorstep again, like a person that I have just started rekindling with. We had only like text. We had only like texted. We haven't like said anything. I mentioned to this person like one time that I love white roses. They didn't even know about the tattoo on my back. They just know that I love white roses. They showed up on my doorstep with a White Rose and they were like, I know you had a bad week, so here you go. And in that moment, it was like they heard me. They are taking the initiative to learn me and hear me as a person. And it's like again, like you wouldn't, I wouldn't expect that. You know, it was like just like a friend. I just we just rekindled hadn't seen each other in years. So it's like that was like the least the last thing that I expected and it was the first thing that they did. Speaker 1 How did you feel in that moment? Like when they showed up at the Rose? Like what was the? Speaker 2 I think there were like so many things going on, like emotionally, I wanted to cry. I know to like some people would be like, why? Why do you want to cry? Like it's just like a fire, you know? But like to me, what it meant and signified was that like I was being heard and like they're hearing me as a person. They're understanding who I am as a person and like willing to show up the way that they know I need them to show up. And like just like physically, I think like at first I was like frozen because I was just like someone's actually taking the time to hear me and like listen to me. And then like after I got out of the shock of like the frozen moment and whatnot, like I went and I hugged them and I was like, thank you so much. Like obviously tears in my eyes. Like it was like a huge like emotional thing, like other people to see it. Like you're just getting a flower. It's not a huge seal, but like to me, it's like they're seeing me and they're hearing me. They know who they're trying to learn who I am. And even after so many years of having no contact and not being in my life, it's like they're putting in that effort. I think like one specific memory that I can remember was that I really love empanadas, obsessive empanadas. I love cheese empanadas and there is one specific store that you could get the very specific empanada that I like because I like them like deep fried. I don't like the oven ones. I like Colombian ones, but like, I specifically like like the deep fried ones with like cheese inside. And he had gone to this place and he was going to come over afterwards. He had gone to this place, he got himself a smoothie, he got himself food. And when he came over, he didn't bring me an empanada. And you can only get, you could only in that time get it in that place. And I was like, oh, you didn't get me anything. He was like, yeah, I just wanted to get food for myself. And I was like, OK, I guess. But you like, you knew that I really love empanadas from there. And he was like, yeah, but it's, I didn't think I needed to get you something. So it's like, OK. And there were like little things like like that throughout the relationship where it's like the easiest thing could have been like picking up something for me that, you know, that I really love or something that like reminds me, reminds you of me. And it's like, it just never naturally came. It's just like, why do I from them and their perspective, it was kind of like, why do I have to do this? You know, like, why are you? Why do you have this expectation of me? Speaker 1 That's how interesting I, I feel like so much of love is like when you think of yourself, you also think of your partner. And so like, like I think often times, like times like I felt in love, like I will like I'm thirsty and I'll get the water, but I'll put in the water 1st And like I don't, I wasn't really raised that way, but it's just like. Speaker 2 It's just like a natural instinct, right? Yeah, exactly. And there was never that natural instinct within the relationship. He listened to the fact that I love white roses. He knows this as a fact. He knew that as a fact. Anyone could go out to him and ask him and, like, he'd be like, yeah, and state that. But when it came down to it to show up, to show up for me in the way that I needed him or wanted him to show up, it was evident that he didn't hear how much it meant to me. So it's like he listened, he heard what I was saying. He might have like even done his best to try to hear but he didn't fully understand and hear me out and the aspect that I needed him to. Speaker 1 Because he didn't get you the white roses. Like all of these small things. Speaker 2 That you wanted to. Speaker 1 Do exactly because he didn't get you the empanadas. Speaker 2 Exactly. It's like such little things, but it's like they pile up, you know, like after a while it, it's like they start to accumulate and you start like thinking about like how many times did they actually hear you as a person and show up for you in the way that you needed? And then you start to like realize like, damn, like I gotta get my, the bar has to come up. It's it's in hell right now. It's it's gotta come up. Losing Yourself in Love and Finding Your Own Needs I feel like in a lot of ways, you're almost like a like a mother. She's also losing part of herself. Speaker 2 Yeah, I do have like that very nurturing mother esque side to myself and I've been told that a lot. Also something that I'm working on I feel like. Speaker 1 You think it's a bad thing? Speaker 2 I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it can get bad because it's like, like you said, it's like a mother always loses herself. So it's like I feel like in every one of my relationships I've lost myself. Like I right now, I think it's like the time that I'm really figuring out who I am and what I'm doing with my life or what I want for myself because within like the I've like I've jumped from relationship to relationship. So I haven't been single in the last like almost 10 years. Speaker 1 Real me too, I'm in the same boat. Speaker 2 Obviously. Speaker 1 It's. Speaker 2 It's bad. It's yeah, it's interesting for sure. It's very interesting. So it's like, I feel like you don't never really fully know yourself because you're almost adapting to the other person. So it's like, when is there time to look? Know who you are? Speaker 1 Well, when you're with somebody, just takes them so much space. Yeah. And there's so much inertia too, too, because that's what moving forward looks like, right? It's like, oh, we're going to run one day a week, then two days a week, or I'm going to see more and more frequently. And now our lives are like intertwined. Speaker 2 Exactly. Speaker 1 And so like. Speaker 2 There's like no space for yourself at that point. Speaker 1 I feel like I try to come to terms with like in relationships. Like a part of me like will be lost and hopefully that's for the best. But I do think I think that that's a tough trade off if you don't know enough about yourself. I. Speaker 2 Think, yeah. And that's exactly what I feel like is happening now. Like I just didn't know enough about myself. So it's like now that I'm learning more about myself, I feel like the future relationships that I potentially get into are going to be different compared to what I've already been or what I've already experienced. Speaker 1 What have you learned about yourself so far? Speaker 2 Oh, I've learned so many things. I learned that I need someone that likes to explore as much as I do. Like, I can't just sit at home and nap and watch movies all day and call it a life. I need someone that, like, actually enjoys, like going out and doing things and having new experiences and meeting new people. And like, obviously that, you know, entails money and whatnot. But like, we're getting to a point in our lives where it's like our careers are kind of getting settled. So it's like, OK, like we're not in high school anymore. I feel like I need someone also that I can like fully. Sometimes I just need to like allow the other person to take control. Like I need to learn to back off of like taking control and like being the one that takes care of everything, you know? So I need someone that is also like fully willing to like be like, OK, like, no, I got it. Like I got like the plans I got like, I'll plan all this out and like you just like sit back and relax kind of thing. I think those are the major ones honestly. Speaker 1 Kind of a random question, but I'm somebody who spent the majority of my adult life in a relationship, literally 85% jumping from relation to relationship. And you can argue if it's good or bad, it's nuance, I would say. But if, if you're somebody who's also done that, like I'm, I'm honestly questioning how much I know myself based off of your similar experience, which is which is why I'm asking like, how did how did you know you didn't know that much about yourself until recently? Speaker 2 I think it was like after the relationship where I kind of like just sat down with myself because it's something that you kind of like almost had to process because it doesn't, I feel like it doesn't really come naturally. Like you're not going to just sit there and be like, damn, like I don't really know myself. Like it's like you have to sit down and like actually process the relationship. Like things that like experiences within the relationships, things that happened and realize like almost like logically, 'cause I'm, I'm more of an emotional thinker. I'm not really like a logical thinker. Granted, you should be both a logical and an emotional thinker, but like, especially in relationships, I'm very like emotional thought based. So it wasn't until like I got out of the relationship where I was like, OK, I should probably think logically about all of this. And I kind of like sat down and like was like, OK, how many things did within the relationship were done for to meet my needs or to meet who I am as a person or because I wanted to do it. So it's like when I realized just like how big the difference was, it was like, OK, like, do I even really know what I like to do? Do I know what experiences I specifically like to go and and do do I know what what makes me happy? What makes me sad? Because like I was going based off of their emotions. So it's like if they were happy about it, I was happy about it, but was I actually really happy about it or was I just happy because they were happy? Speaker 1 You were happy because they were happy. Oh, interesting. Speaker 2 So it like it really like put into like perspective like was I going based off of my own emotions and feelings or was I going based off of their emotions and feelings? Speaker 1 So they became the center of your life, like they were your hobbies, they were your activities. Speaker 2 Exactly, Yeah. Speaker 1 Understood. Speaker 2 So it's like I didn't know what hobbies I had. I didn't know like what things I like to do. I didn't know I could go as far as saying like I didn't know what food I like because like I was going based off this is what they like. So it was like, if I don't know those little niche things about myself, can I say like I know myself, like I'm showing myself the love that I deserve right now? Speaker 1 What does that look like? How to Practice Self-Love and Be Comfortable Alone I am doing all the things that I want to do for myself. I'm like, I am fully with, like, submerged within my career. I love what I'm doing in terms of, like, therapy. I take myself out on little dates to like places that I actually want to go to, not just places where I'm like, OK, yeah. Like I guess, I guess if that's where you want to go, like we can go there. I take, I spend time with myself, I like spend time learning what I love and learning what I do and understanding myself as a person and my needs. So I think like that's where I'm like coming from in terms of like, I'm showing myself the love that I never got. I buy myself flowers, I get myself little gifts. Like I could be broke as shit, but like it's like I'll still, if I want Chipotle, I'll get myself Chipotle because it's like I'm providing for myself. I'm caring for myself. Obviously don't make stupid financial decisions, but like, you know. Speaker 1 Not a financial advisor, I I think that makes sense. I think often times when I'm single, one of the things I struggle with is like, I know that I'm supposed to be doing these things for myself. And I think a lot of the times I am, but oftentimes I can't help but feel like something's missing. One of the things I struggle with is, is like being able to like let that go and like just make myself the center of my life and not like. Speaker 2 Are you comfortable being alone? Speaker 1 I guess not if I feel like that. What does it feel like to be comfortable being alone? Speaker 2 Sorry, this is kind of getting into. Speaker 1 Therapy. That's fine. Listen, I can pay your rate. No, I don't have insurance right now. Maybe. Speaker 2 Not I'm still not licensed, so technically. Speaker 1 Oh, let's go. Wait. This is practice hours, this is. Speaker 2 Practice exactly direct hours. Speaker 1 You can you can add this to your. Speaker 2 Timesheet. Actually, what does it mean to feel comfortable being alone? Speaker 1 I think so, yeah. What is it? What does it feel like to feel comfortable being alone? Because I don't, I don't know if I feel comfortable. Speaker 2 At least like in our specific situations, because like we have like, I guess like a similar thing in terms of like dating, where we have jumped from like relationship to relationship and haven't been single in like multiple years. It's almost like we grew accustomed to like just always having a person around. And it's like now, like when you think about like going out to eat by yourself, you're like, like, I don't know about that one. It's a matter of like getting yourself out of your comfort zone. Because I'm going to be honest, like it doesn't feel comfortable in the beginning. It feels really weird. It feels like almost like it gives you almost like an ick because you're just like, why am I like doing this? Like it feels like so off. Like you feel like you said, if you feel like something is missing. Speaker 1 Yeah, like, like I can't help but look. It feels like, it feels like there's like like a mildly bright light and I could just like look and then mildly bright light would be like hinge. Speaker 2 Yeah, Hinge is a downfall so many of us 'cause. Speaker 1 Or like I I can't help but wonder I think. Speaker 2 For me, I think it's a matter of like just knowing like things will happen in due time. But the thing that you have to ask yourself is if it were to happen right now, would you be ready for it? Do you? Would you say that you know yourself and love yourself enough to be able to provide love for someone? Speaker 1 Else I, I guess the answer is no, but it doesn't stop the desire. Like I think I think you're right. I think rationally, you're totally correct. Like rationally, especially this point of my life, like I, I so desperately want to invest in myself and to, to do the things that make me happy and like, keep learning about myself. And I see that bright light in the corner. Like, and like both are true or yeah, just like in general. Yeah, both are true. Speaker 2 I think it's again like a matter of like, we're just so used to it. We're used to like jumping from one romantic relationship to another. We're used from, we're used to like if we didn't receive love here, we'll go here and receive love. So it's like, it's like I said, it's gonna be uncomfortable at first. It's gonna be like, like you feel like so out of place almost. And I feel like it has a lot of a lot to do with society too. And like social media where everything is emphasized for like couples, you see couple of things like everywhere. And it's like it's like it kind of almost pushes you and makes you want to desire a relationship further. But The thing is, is again, like relationships are great and like being loved is so great. But again, I like the the main point or the main question is, is, is like if you haven't been able to fully love yourself and fully learn yourself, how can you manage a relationship? How can you manage fully loving someone else? Speaker 1 It's actually wait, but I think that's the easiest thing in the world. I think when you don't love yourself, it's so easy to love somebody else because you can just. Speaker 2 You're actively avoiding loving yourself though. Speaker 1 Yes, no, no, I'm not saying it's good. I'm, I'm also not personally admitting to it, but I'm just saying in general, I feel like I, I like, I, I hear, I hear the phrase like, and I say the phrase, how can you love yourself if you don't love somebody else? And I, I think I mean like rationally it's bad, but emotionally it's like the easiest thing in the world to, to love someone else. Speaker 2 And it's like, again, because we're so like societally in terms of like friends relationships, in terms of just like what we see on social media, we're so like driven to like find that perfect person and find that perfect relationship. And it's like everything, your life is gonna start once you're in that perfect relationship. But The thing is, is like your life already started. You're already like a full person all by yourself. It's a matter of like, do you want to know who that person is and like getting out of your comfort zone? Because The thing is, is like it's uncomfortable. It feels weird. You're still going to long for a relationship. I'm not going to say that you're not, but it's like, how much do you really want to do this for yourself? That will be that drive to push you to do it. Speaker 1 And so it goes away, the feeling goes away, the uncomfortability goes away. Speaker 2 Right now, like before, kind of like when I was just single, I did not dare venture out by myself. Like I didn't dare come to the city by myself. I was terrified of everything. I was like, I can't go to a bar and sit by myself. Like I can't go out to like eat by myself. I can't go to a movie by myself 'cause that's the thing that you do with a partner. Like I can't do that now. It's like I come to the city all the time by myself. I go to, I take myself on movie dates, I go for dinner by myself. I will sit at a bar and just have a beer by myself and like, it's like just a matter of like growing in the uncomfortability and learning to be comfortable with it. Learning to be comfortable with yourself and your loneliness. Speaker 1 And it goes away. Speaker 2 It goes go away. Speaker 1 Promise. Speaker 2 I pinky promise. Speaker 1 Thank you so much. What was your name? Speaker 2 Jen. Speaker 1 Preston, nice to meet you. Speaker 2 Nice to meet you.