TN:176 Fred again..

Hello, welcome to Take Notes and our new episode with the incredible Fred again. We were so lucky. Fred invited us into his house once more to dig into several of the tracks from USB and it was absolutely amazing to be back there catching up in his living room. We filmed the whole interview so if you'd like to watch the full video episode which of course includes screen capture from Fred's logic sessions then head over to patreon.com/tatenotes. Fred was brilliant as ever. We've spoken to him a couple of times before about the actual life records and there's something about his approach to music that is absolutely fascinating and each time we've talked to him he's kind of illustrated another side of that and it was great to be back there again in his living room to find out how he made USB and the tracks on it. Fred of course has just completed that huge run of shows the USB tour from last year and then finishing last weekend at Allie Pally in London for events at Allie Pally bringing all sorts of people together. Mike Skinner and JME Ezra Collective, Thomas from Draft Punk, Laru and Scream, JMET, all these different friends of Fred drawn from different genres and different scenes all brought together for the USB experience. Thank you so much once more Fred for letting us into your world. We had loads of questions coming from Patreon subscribers to put to Fred. We tried to cover as many as possible but I think we would have needed quite a few more hours to cover them all. There were quite a few overlaps within our chat anyway but many have also remained just in the full video episode on the tape notes Patreon as well. So that is our brand new episode. Fred again, take three. I think you're going to enjoy it. A couple of other quick announcements. This month's brand new Gear Giveaway on our extended players premium Patreon tier is a plugin bundle from D16. One winner will be able to pick five plugins for their incredible range that includes desi mort, space rec, devastator, tour of herb and many more. All the details are at patreon.com/takenotes. A big thanks as well to our partners at tape it, the iPhone recording app for musicians, make sure to check them out. It really is a brilliant tool for music makers, a game changer for anyone who records voice notes, ideas or anything with their iPhone. They've got a new plugin announcement coming very soon, a VST version of their denoiser. We've had to play with it already and it sounds really good. So keep an ear out for more on that. But now, without further ado, let's get started. This episode is being supported by tape it, the iPhone recording app for musicians. As many of the fantastic artists and producers on tape notes have mentioned, recording voice memos, field recordings and capturing ideas on the go is crucial to the creative process and tape it makes it effortless. With tape it, you can record straight from your lock screen. Capture ideas and stereo, choose between multiple recording formats, drop markers to highlight key moments and create shared mix tapes with friends and collaborators. You can even view your recordings on a map so you'll always remember where inspiration struck. Whether it's a quick melody or a full song idea, tape it helps you stay creative without the clutter. So click the link in a recent episode show notes or head to tape.it/tapnose to download tape it for free. And for even more, check out tape it pro and use promo code tape notes for 20% off. That's tape.it/tapnose. Now, on with the show. Hello and welcome to tape notes, the podcast that looks behind the scenes at the magic of recording and producing music. Every episode will be reuniting an artist and producer and talking through some of the highlights from their collaboration in the studio. So join us as we lift the lid on the creative process and the inner workings of music production to see what lies beneath. Hello, I'm John Kennedy and joining me for this episode of tape notes is Fred again to talk about how he wrote, recorded and produced the album USB. Fred Gibson, better known as Fred again, is a songwriter, multi-instrumentalist and producer. One of the biggest artists and producers in the industry today, Fred's career began in earnest when age 16 he joined an Acapella group, organised by producer Brian Eno. Impressed by Fred's skills, Brian offered to be his mentor with the two working closely over the coming years. Venturing further into the world of production, Fred went on to work with artists including Charlie XX and George Ezra. By 2019, he had collaborated with Ed Sheeran Stormzy and BTS and in 2020 became the youngest ever British award winner for producer of the year, having earned credits on 30% of the UK's number one singles. In 2021, Fred launched his actual live trilogy, a run of deeply personal sample-driven records that connected powerfully during the pandemic and expanded his audience worldwide. As explored, in tape notes episodes 75 and 105. After a viral boiler room set accelerated his rise, actual live three went on to win the Grammy award for best electronic dance album. He has since remained prolific, releasing the Grammy-winning collaboration, Rumble, with Skrillex and Flo Dan in 2023, followed by his fourth solo album, Ten Days, in 2024. Alongside his studio output, Fred's live shows have become global events from Glastobri to arena-scale collaborations, notably alongside Fortet and Skrillex. While his evolving USB project culminated in sold out international performances and four homecoming shows at London's Alexandra Palace in 2026. Today, I joined Fred at his house in South London and walked by the way to start by hearing something from USB. Featuring Jamie T, this is Lightsburn Dimmer. (Music) It is Fred again and Jamie T, with Lightsburn Dimmer from the USB album or project. What is it? We're back in Fred's place, South of the River. Hello Fred. Hey John, how's it going? Very good, thank you. Thanks for allowing us back in to your home. It's great to be here and I thought that would be an appropriate one because we are just South of the River. Yes, which is very nice. How did that track come about? That track came about because I heard Jamie's record Hippodrome. I've always loved his writing and I mean, I make it like, as you know, from We've hung out here before, but I make a lot of ideas and so I don't often know which ones are going to sort of stay with me, but his words there and the way it felt. That was one of those ones that came together quite quickly. You'll see the previous times, some of the tunes we'll talk about today, I think, like went through a million different shapes. That one was pretty like half an hour in or an hour in. It was kind of roughly what you're hearing. I mean, I just then honed the sounds a lot. Yeah. And did you just go and like, take the vocals from Hippodrome? Did you have to isolate them in some way? I think I found a live performance where they were more easy to isolate and then I reached out to Jamie and then I chopped them into different bits and then Jamie was making me laugh the other day being like, he's like, it's fucking mental that you've made me learn this version of my song where you've reordered all of the verse lines. He's like, it's a total headfuck having to like go in and learn a song that he knows back to front and row, but then I've like switched every line around so it goes in a different order. But yeah, roughly like that. Yeah. Well, it's fascinating because it's a good illustration of the process that we're going to explore today in that you start with one thing and end up with another thing. And that's the Fred again thing is that your brain re-analyzes things and re-imagines them in such an exciting way. And you're as you constantly are. So this is the third time we've got to speak to you on Take Notes Fred. And each time it seems that your questioning, our understanding of how we share music, how we release music and USB is another example of this I think because it keeps expanding. It keeps changing and mutating. So even within two weeks you put out USB, the album finished, but then there's a second version on your two weeks later or something which has lightsperendima at the start of it. And then there's all these remixes and they don't know. Further remixes to come. So can you explain the ideas behind it? Yeah, basically the idea we had with the USB stuff is for it to just be an infinite record that is kind of free from any of the restrictions I would impose on an album I would make. It's not an I mean, it's an album by definition on the like streaming things I guess, but it's more of just like an infinitely rolling mixtape or folder. Like I think of it as like a USB folder like. And so yeah, if I make like a actual life album or like another record like I see them as being needing to feel really like honed statements and like diary entries and to have narrative and cohesion and all of these things. But with USB the co-creation The Norwegian is just like, it's for my USB, it's like things I want to hear in rooms with people and it's liberating to not have any more things to worry about than that. So yeah, I hope one day it'll have like a hundred songs on it. I don't know, once we've done all the remixes from this, it'll probably be like 40 on it already. So like it, and it's just very free feeling like I can even through to things that are more kind of like bootleggy like the edit we did of the Joy-Obson track with Yottie and Cardi like adding things that are kind of for soundcloud but just onto the ever-rolling playlist if you see what I mean. But yeah, Lightspan, Dimmer will be the last one for a minute because after this Friday I'm going to go to bed. Well, that seems like a fair enough thing to do. Amazing, I mean, you've been so crazily busy, but it has been really exciting. And so I guess it means that you're kind of constantly creating and we'll find that out today because we're going to look at a few songs. Maybe we should dive straight in then. So the first one we're going to look at is Solo. Nice. So maybe we'll have a blast of that master and find out how you created it. Okay. So many things to do. It is Fred again with Blanco and Solo from USB and it's great just sitting here. You're pretty Fred because your fingers are moving all the time like you're playing it on that top and also the other hand then reach to the piano. It's great. I mean, you can't help yourself, I think. How did this come about? This came about, what is fun doing this because before I came here I loaded up these sessions and I learned one of the reasons I loved doing this for us is because I learned a lot about stuff I just totally had erased from my memory about how things happened. So in this case, I learned when I went into the session that the first one was called 15th of December, 2024 Miami flight out and it was basically through. I have all these folders on my phone of things I'll find online or on Instagram or on YouTube or a million other places and just this folder of ideas a little bit of vocals, a little music or someone drumming or someone playing. And one that I had was this video here which is by a visual artist called Splinter Frames who I've since met who's amazing and I had that save for age so I just loved the way he made it feel. So that's a whole combination of images and sounds. Yeah, I didn't understand actually when I sampled it that he was a visual artist as well as an audio one. But yeah, the combo of it just gave me a nice feeling so it went into that folder and then on the flight to Miami I must have dragged it into. I mean, I'm kind of guessing I'm kind of looking at the title and doing detective work about what I did. So I think I then dragged it in and I slowed it right down and tuned it to be like… And then I put it into Melodyne here to basically in this one you can make the… Oh, have you got my score? Oh, no. I've got your score. Very pro. Yeah, yeah, we've got. I can see what you're doing. Really nice. It's so good. Yeah, so on here you can do polyphonic pitch changing. Previously you could only do this on monophonic parts. What's crazy and just magical is that you can do this now and it… So for example here that's playing chord 4 basically and I can decide to switch the harmonies and make them slide around like… Instead of it being… That I could make it be… Or make it be… Hold on, changing the bass will be the most powerful change and make that chord one. And so what's so fun about this to me is that you can… I used to spend so long with samples doing like the most fine tuned EQ to try and take out individual notes to allow me to generate just like two chords from one sample. Usually if you had like just a minor chord I'd know that okay I can go to 4 or 5 or 1 and I can go to 3 but it will sound kind of Daytona that will break the key a bit. And so yeah this has been a really liberating tool creatively because you can retain the sonic and the magic of a sound but shape it into being the harmony that you want it to be hosting if you know what I mean. Which I did a little bit here, not loads but a bit. And then basically this bit what I learned today was I then began the phase of just trying loads of vocal ideas including one from a friend of mine this is a song called Roise tune which is… Which is great. Which sounds sick I do like it. I love that vocal. I've tried a million different ideas with that and I tried. And I none of them felt right to me and then I tried drums. Which is okay that would this sounds like. And so these are all from a whole collection of different folders you've got. Yeah these are all vocals that I've amassed. Yeah that part I was thinking this morning that part of the process is a very… it's an impossible one to show on my screen and it's like 50% of it which is just listening to records and being like that bit, that bit, this bit, this bit. And then I'll usually like you can see there try bits that I love over lots of different things until I find a kind of lock in. And similarly with the percussion or the drums or something you've got. Yeah like here. I tried it with loads of different like these are… I often will make drums when I'm not inspired and I'll just call them sample me. So at the bottom there's like eight different versions of groove. So I can just quickly try it over like some different pallets and see what feels like it's starting to lock. The other thing that's on the master there is a sound shifter because I find it's really helpful to just be able to really easily just change the key because the whole feeling is changed so drastically by whether or not it's… The difference in feeling between that and just like a tone like… is huge and quite often we're quite into like once the record is done recording it through tape and pitching it down like half a semitone so you fall between keys. So it would be like 30 cents lower or 40 high or whatever. There's a lot of records I love that are in that ether and like music in the past is getting quite nerdy now but like in the we call A for 40 A that's what we tuned to but in the time of Bach it was like 432 I think. So his A was like a lot flatter than arses. So there's no like correct centre and so I'm quite interested even though now everything in here is at 440 essentially unless you really bully it out of it. I'm quite interested in hearing in the same way that we can agree that like this chord and this chord feel different. Therefore it just stands to reason that the one that is between those two also has a different feeling. So yeah I'll quite… This phase I'll quite often be like just trying it all over and then basically I realise that Blanco's tone felt beautiful on it to me like… And you already had the Blanco? I don't remember. I probably yeah because I can see here there's like five in the session so that means I'd probably be in trying to find different songs like quite often I'll Frankenstein a few different records of one person. So I was trying different bits and then this is… And that for me like once his voice just the tone he is on like he's like kissing the key he's like all but he's not singing but he's like it feels like he's aware of the harmony beneath him just enough. He's like almost on the D flat. Yeah. It's what I used to like. I love about the way Eminem rats is that he's like, he very intentionally like, slightly locks onto the key in a way that just makes it cruise really pleasingly but still sound like rap. And I think that's probably, but he's kind of flat. He's often here, so there's a nice tension and that chord. - But in this instance, you know, Blanco's not there, you've managed to find the distraught. - It's like he's not there. (laughing) - It's not about the way. - But it's faster, but obviously with the Eminem thing that you were mentioning, no Eminem is kind of thinking in those terms. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But you're thinking in those terms in your marriage of the different. - Yeah, yeah, which is quite fascinating. And I'm sure maybe Blanco could key in on that if he wanted to or was here with you. - Yeah. - But you're searching for that magical harmony in a way. - One of the reasons I think why I like working this way, I mean, I work with other people all the time, so I definitely do both, is that I couldn't possibly expect anyone to sit through just the last 10 minutes we've talked about. That's like a few days. Let alone all the other alternatives that are in here of like no one could be expected to sit here as I try all of this and then decide all the vocals are wrong and then decide just that one line and then decide it's the wrong key. And then decide like I have to be able to do that on my own otherwise I would just piss everyone off. - Yeah, yeah, totally. But it seems to me that in a way, if we liken this to doodling, so nice. Whatever situation you find yourself in, you're on a train, on a plane, doing something a moment where nothing's happening. So the laptop is your sketchpad and you're just kind of mucking about basically but sketching away and trying different combinations because you cannot help yourself and it's something you like doing and enjoy doing. But you're still at the same point, it's like you're searching for the harmony, or searching for the thing that will suddenly ignite your imagination. - Yes. - And it's through trial and error. And through obviously immense knowledge and also accumulation of these different elements, these fragments that you bring together and then at some point it all aligns and you're happy. - Yeah, or mostly doesn't. (laughing) - But it seems that on that flight, or maybe we're in Miami, that was when these elements kind of came together. - Yes, well actually I think. - Or was this later? - This is, I think now we're a week or so later. I think the chords and the different vocals was probably the flight. And then I think now we're a couple of alternatives later, so maybe a week or so later. But yeah, so once I started playing this with these are the drums I had earlier, which aren't the final ones, but similar. (upbeat music) And then basically what I'll do is just listen through it over and over again in this shape and just start chopping. I mean I'll do it like. (upbeat music) Just shot, like that. Life goes on with the moment. (upbeat music) Those on it to then here. (upbeat music) And then so I'd start to like make it. (upbeat music) I'm just like make them pull those so they stick out. And I like that one. - Shotball aiming together. - Well aiming together. - Like. (upbeat music) - Then overflow, then overflow. - And is this blank hope passage from something you worked with? - No, we had linked I think, but years previously and this is from a record of his I loved already. But I didn't actually know, I just like the tone and feeling of his voice 'cause like he says, I don't know where at some point he says. - Solo. - Um. - There we go. (upbeat music) - Oh no, that's probably. (laughs) (upbeat music) - There we go. So that word, where he says. (upbeat music) Like that combined with the life goes on. (upbeat music) I think was the bit where I was like, okay I understand combining this with that starts to feel like a song. (upbeat music) - Like that then became a framing line that re-contextualized all the other lines in a way that I understood better when it was like life goes on and life goes on in my head, but I'm solo. And then all the other lyrics, once that line kept happening again and again started to feel like this collage of memories of these different moments like when he then says like. (upbeat music) - Like it feels like all these memories of him being with all these people and then it just keeps coming back to him being on his ones. And then I really was excited because then the feeling of it I just really felt close to or something like that. Yeah, from that point I was like, this is a song I will 100% do whatever hundreds of hours it takes to finish it because I know that I care enough about the bones of it if you know what I mean. - Well, you've created a really powerful sentiment and you've in a way written a lyric using his own lyrics know that has a lot of meaning and depth to it which is really interesting. And so then that next phase could take you hours or days or it could be - Yes and I just work until you feel it's ready. How do you know when it's ready? - Yeah, I remember. I think you probably asked it. - Yeah, well no, I think it's a good thing to think about. And it can be helpful. Sometimes I feel like, no, I don't think you do. I think it just comes out and you, for one reason or another, the things are lying in a way that you feel sufficiently good enough to put it out but it's not like, I'd be lying if I said like everything I put out. I felt like, yes, stamp, 100% finished song done. Like it's just not. Sometimes I feel great about it and then on the day release I'm like, not this and sometimes I feel not 100% but I've worked on this so much. And I know that I did feel this way about it when I made it a year ago and so I want to honor that feeling and still put it out. And then a year after it comes out, I love it. Like it's not a linear journey. But then maybe sometimes you can get so lost in this that that could put you off something in a way. - Yeah, that's the real, to me, like producing. I think maybe more than songwriting in some respects, producing. I think one of the hardest things is retaining your perspective while still like diving deep enough in the thing to like really try and explore the ideas and make them sound as good as they can sound. Songwriting I think often is best trying to get as close to your instinct as possible than treat it a little bit more sort of romantically maybe. Whereas production, it's more of a like a sort of quest to like find the alignment of the Rubik's cube that honors the feeling of the song the most if you see what I mean. But yeah, so in this case I think I'd have just structured his vocals and listened to it like this a lot of times. Move the key around. See what it feels like there. And just listened to it in lots of different instructions, you know, found this bit. - Like those on my life goes on my life goes on my life goes on my life goes on my life. - I think I found a head from somewhere else. - Yeah, it's interesting that you're making that distinction between production and songwriting because in many ways watching you do this it seems like songwriting to me. - Yeah, they're definitely blurry. - Clearly also the things that really motivate you are feeling and emotion. You're looking for feeling and emotion and everything you're doing. - Yeah, I think maybe the bit that's sort of coming, I think now I feel like I'm probably entering into a more production mindset. Like now I'm like, okay, I understand the bones. I know the harmony and the lyric that is the key and the emotion that is guiding it. And so then I think now it starts to feel like, like now I tried, for example, all these different drum beats like this. - This is one. - These are all just ones I've made that I can just drag in or think that might even be like a loop. - And there was this. - I think I made those with Dejon. Because it says electron and I think we did that on that. - All of these felt too playful to me. - It's not much too playful. - And then there was this one. - So from that I think I probably learned I didn't like anything fall to the floor on it and I liked it when the break beat felt a little bit played and it's rhythm like them. - And then I remade them on sounds that felt better and knocked a bit more, just knocked a bit more I think. And that was like the core bones of it, which is with these. - This is one of the reneural memories of the work I shoot. I shoot with emin together. - With emin together. ♪ A job is jump up coming in oversized ♪ ♪ Well, cut me this into my sword and line up solo ♪ (upbeat music) Yeah, so that was. (upbeat music) Oh, actually, let me show you this, 'cause this was the idea that really helped find its final form, which was that I kind of got (upbeat music) halfway or something, and it was like, I don't know, a minute, 30 or something, and I kept just wanting to play it again, but I couldn't find what the structure should be that would keep it going. And so then basically had this idea of it being like, re, you like kind of, it's like a pull up, but it's like a recontextualized pull up. So instead of just being, putting it up and just playing the song twice in one song, it's like at the halfway point, it stops and goes like, (upbeat music) Yeah, when I said, from me, my tiredness broke. (upbeat music) And then it's like the same idea, but reharmonized. And so the idea was like, 'cause this is, by coincidence, I found this other video. (upbeat music) I kicked and he was this sick Aussie producer. (upbeat music) And I was like, oh, that reminds me of the feeling of the other sample. And so then I picked, I tweaked the chords that it would be the same Sonic, but in this world. And then I was like, okay, what would be cool as if he like has changed his perspective on what he was talking about in the first half. And obviously as you say, he's not the air-fred. (laughing) So I was like, so the idea then was to have him doing the same lines, but some of him is pitched up, so it sounds like him younger talking to himself, 'cause like the chords have a slightly more brighter innocence to them. And so now it's like, (upbeat music) ♪ Rainy days been gave me damp ♪ ♪ This song never had no stung ♪ ♪ Brat no brat no tell me I'm blind ♪ ♪ Brat no brat no baby I'm drunk ♪ ♪ Brat no brat no baby I'm solo ♪ And he's going back and forth between like, ♪ How he loved me when I don't love me ♪ ♪ He was a sabre sad in a vip ♪ ♪ Brat no brat no baby I'm blind ♪ Between like sort of young pitched up Blanco and now modern day Blanco. And I liked the way that kind of made it even feel more and more like a collage, but like he was approaching it from a, like he slightly shifted his perspective on how he felt about it, if you know what I mean. (upbeat music) And then at the end, I think with that in mind, it just says, it just says, let go, let go, let go, million, million, million, million times, and brings it home. (upbeat music) when it finally calls you Is my trad что * аналог committees * So yeah, really interesting. Is this a good example to look at how you create those drums and those percussion sections and what the choice is involved? Yeah, it would be. I think this is something that my brother had started working on these like all these different pitch snares. I like how it sounds like they're kind of. sort of fanning around the main room. But yeah, for me really like the drums were more of a pattern journey than a Sonic one. I don't think like there's definitely songs with more striking drum tones, but the quest for me was to just like. it was mainly just trying to get. it's kind of like a super tightened version of like a jungle break slowdown, but without all the ghost notes instead of. which I guess is why I like having the feeling of these of these a-many snares in there that sort of nod to that era in genre. Yeah, just let you. they only just poke through a few occasions. And are these real sounds? Are they synthetic sounds? Are they. um. combination of a whole different thing? Yeah, I wouldn't be able to. remember to see. I think they'll be. generally the start point is often something real. Usually I'll make hits from just like that and that. That's just like to me the best sound ever. Yeah, for the sound of things hitting wood. And like a panic-ass thing. All of these sounds I just. I don't know. We talk quite a lot in the studio about things that feel like they're like primal that we like them. Like wondering. There are some sounds that I think we are primarily drawn to and I think that is one. But then like similarly I think that's kind of why things like rolling forward to the floors are nice. I think there's something tribly. It could be rubbish, it could be not that at all. But I kind of like thinking about like why is that just like innately pleasing to me more than another sound or another rhythm or. Yeah. And I think it might be because those are just sounds that we've just evolved to just find like community and stuff. Yeah. So you mean you will often assemble some sounds and how will you record them just straight into the laptop or use them like my own life phone. Yeah. And then you change. I'm just kind of sculpt them. In this case like a thing like a kick I'll. That's just like a really simple kind of hip-hop style kick. That's a sample from the A-men break I think. Because I wanted it to have. Right. That's sonic of that exact snare like tickles something in a certain corner of nostalgia. Like that's a reference. So that to me is. That still has the primal feeling but only in the last 30 years. It's only when he was raised on that. Yeah. But it's interesting now. Well it's not just now but that's a liminal understanding that we all have a certain sounds that we don't even need to articulate that connects us to what you could say is the fundamental force of that whole genre. But we kind of understand it instinctively because we've been exposed and exposed and exposed again almost like a liturgy that's in past. Yeah. I totally agree. I'd say it's good. I would have understood religiously. Yeah. It's interesting to me how important it is to understand those things or how unimportant it may be to understand those things. Because like a lot of people I'm sure. If I played this record to my dad, I don't know, he wouldn't be thinking, "Oh is that the snare from the A&M break? That reminds me of my jungle days." Yeah. So like. But then hopefully what you arrive at sort of can transcend those things but then it is like you're saying it is a really core ingredient of the ingredients. So yeah, I think quite a lot about how much it is, how much I want to value the liturgy like you just said of those sounds and I don't know. Yeah. But I think that we do in that you are trying to evoke that and it's a conscious thing. But also I think the speed with which you move and create means that you're not necessarily analysing or thinking things through. You're doing it and thinking, "Yeah, that's survived." Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. I'm definitely analysing more now than I would have been when I was doing it. Yeah. Yeah. The one other thing that might be interesting to say in terms of just the finishing of it is like, maybe this is what I mean in terms of delineating between the songwriting and the production and obviously it is blurred. It definitely always is particularly for working this way. But I think what may be helpful is that like what definitely once there's like the kit, the clear bones like once there was the sample and the harmony and the blank code lyric with that chop on top of it. To me then the goal is just supporting that idea like how can I lift that idea up in as many different ways that feel exciting as possible. So whether that's like wheeling it up and it just being the same idea but reharmonize a blank code pitched up. Like the goal to me is to try and present an idea that feels pure in the purest possible way. I love it when things just feel like they're distilled into the essence of them and not like a million different ideas fighting. So like all the everything I added from that point is all just like supporting role stuff. So like for example here essentially it sounds like it's just a sample but there is this guy just clarifying what the lead note is. Quite a nice expressive sound that I've used on a few things. But that's like it's just supporting and similarly here. And you've created that on a synth or yeah that's on a reactor. Right. With the fuel of things chopping it and making it and similarly these. But they're all not new ideas to me. That's like a thing that I definitely tried to like if I'm confident in the bones that are there then the goal is not to try and have ideas that can be that the goal is to have ideas that just enhance and support that. Yeah. And what do you use to chop them up? A sort of raise. Sometimes I'll just use, if it's a simple pattern, I'll just use like Logic Tramolo. Sometimes I'll do it manually and just put it into audio and just chop them so I can make them different lengths. Sometimes I'll use this Logic thing, which is another kind of chopping thing, but you can do slightly more like complex patterns if you want it to be like. Do you know what I mean? It's like a step-seapensive. I use that quite a lot for like slotting things into different pockets and seeing how they feel. You know, the difference between for example this and when it's applied to a whole sample in a groove is like a seismic change and it's quite fun that you can just put this on the master and just or try it like I'll start to like. Quite nice making it seven, no it's long because then it will always go out of time with a four bar. So if you're like, it's like endlessly, rhythmically, colour coming. If there's seven, not eight or fifteen, not sixteen. So yeah. Amazing. Maybe we should just hear a blast of the end of it and round things up with solo. (Music) And when do you share that with Blanco? Yeah. When I'm like confident, I think probably at like phase three of where we were in those sessions, like when I'm like, okay, I understand I love these bones and then like there was a few lines we added. So then I wanted to play it to him to ask if he could write a few bits to like fill out the story where it was missing. So yeah, maybe a few, it depends. Sometimes it's months into it. Sometimes I'm quite confident, early doors. It's when it hits confidence. (Laughter) Right. I don't want to like hit someone up and then be like, actually sorry, I hate you. I'm not even going to send it. Yeah. I think in that case it was about a couple months after I started it. Yeah. Yeah. Blanco is the best man. Yeah. His lyrics is like really the epicenter of it, like the way he's able to write with so much heart, but it doesn't sound like he's thinking, oh, I should apply emotion to these lines. It doesn't sound like an intentional choice. It just sounds like what he said. It just sounds like what he wrote down because it's what was true. So yeah, he's a real goat. Fantastic. Right. We're going to take a quick break and the next song we're going to look at. We've got a few to choose from. What do you want to go with? Fisty or hard style? Let's do. Fisty because that's so different. Yeah. Okay. Nice. The next song we're going to talk about is Fisty with beer, but before that we have some Patreon questions I wanted to ask you for. Very nice. The first is from Alexander J. How much does the genre matter when finding people to collaborate with? You've got songs with people like Skeptor, but also the Japanese house. How does an artist pop up on your radar and what determines if you work with them? Let's just know process for me. I don't think I do. I don't really think about the genre, I guess, that they come from very much. It's more just like, do I like the way the song feels? Do I listen to it? Is there, like in the case of Skepp and Amber from Japanese house in totally different ways when they both come in on a track? Amber, I'm just like, oh my god, the feeling of her voice. You can sing two notes and I'm hypnotized forever. Skepp has such authority in his delivery. It's so commanding over a beat in a way that's so tight in the pocket. I don't think too much about genre, they could be on the same song. I think it's more just what music is resonating with me and that's the end of it. Our next question from Patreon is from Oitu. I hope that's how you say your name. It's OITU. Firstly, they say, "Cheers brother, so thankful for how you seem to be permanently inspired and I completely concur on that." The question is, what is something about your creative process that has remained pretty much the same since the first time you were here? Nice. Probably what's the same as the feeling, the thing that I'm most surprised by, that doesn't change is I'll still be like, "Roying something and be like, 'I hate this, I hate myself, I hate music." Then the next day, I'd be like, "Oh, I quite like that bit." Then sometimes I'll be writing something like, "Absolutely love this. This is so exciting." A couple of weeks later, it'd be like, "Isn't that exciting?" How fallible that journey is is just been totally unchanging in a way that I actually now find kind of calming because I can just be like, "Well, who cares?" That's really interesting. Because the frustration is the up and down, the mood swings involved in being creative. At the same time, because you've been doing this for a while, you realise, "Oh, no, that's part of the process too." Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm definitely wanting to get more and more and more peace with that journey. But I think that would be, it sounds like a sort of weird answer, but I do think actually that's the most noticeable, consistent thing, yeah. Interesting. We've got some more questions from Patriot later, but let's get into another track. So Feisty is the next one. Maybe we could have a blast to the master, Fred. Okay. [Music] So we have, how did this come about? This came out kind of differently because the core start point was jamming with other people. They are there. [Laughter] In this case. So this was me and my brother's the pre-ease, who I mentioned earlier, and our friend Ben, the Nest. And basically, so it was like the golf, we just spent this day in the studio in Toulouse doing all of these jams in this lovely big room in Toulouse, this big live room, basically doing these long days of jams to try and find songs. And for these days, we wrote, yeah, we wrote these like kind of back stories. Some Brian wrote for us remotely and some we, at least, are funny. So basically, these are things that, particularly if you're jamming with new musicians and everyone's a bit like, there's a nervousness in the room maybe and people are not sure where they slot and some people know each other really well and some people have just met. These things can be really helpful to just lighten everyone into a state of play again, which is all you really want to be. And so the idea is that you give people these back stories that is what they have to embody for that jam. So for example, this is one we wrote. This is so this day everyone was different like a marine creatures. So one person was the pygmy right whale. It says at 70 tons and 52 feet long, you see them at first, vastly stronger and more powerful than your smaller allies. But the right whale is cursed by a rare marine microbial infection, hindering your judgment, leaving you almost entirely obsessing over the wrong things. The melody is primarily affecting your judgment of your own movements and you're becoming increasingly incapable of holding patterns or movements that once felt so natural. You are almost apologetic and you're slow and clumsy, misjudgment blindly blundering beneath the brine, seeking an ally who may make sense of your misconstructions. Wow. Essentially, and we did, there's one for a piglet squid that is so good. But basically what these do is they like they they live so you can then try something silly and no one's thinking, what's that guy doing? He's trying something weird like if you suddenly go, it's like no, that's because I was playing my character. So everyone's liberated to be playful more and to just try things that could sound bad because there's a smile and an ease to it that lightens the sort of tone of let's all be very impressive musicians now. I do want to find the piglet squid one because it is so funny. Hold on. Also, have you ever seen a piglet squid? No. This is actually the most important thing. Hold on. The piglet squid. Okay, this is brilliant. Firstly, look at the piglet squid. Amazing. Can you believe that? So this is an almost see-through, prawn light creature. It's an excretion, really little guy. It's my sister's favourite animal. Oh, going from this to face, he's going to be so ridiculous. The piglet squid. Living more than a thousand meters below the surface, you are a relic of a distant time. One of the few remaining glass squids. Your distant cries for connection. Only make it to the surface, fragmented and filtered forms, travelling through the endless water between us. Only the luckiest divers, musicians and ocean enthusiasts will ever get the chance to see a piglet squid in the world. We are luckiest times. But basically, for example, that would, I remember the sound that Marco made when he was a piglet squid. He became, he's like, "Yay!" Things that would come and go and they were like these big, burby things and they sounded like he, it just puts you, instead of just being like, "All right, what are the ideas I usually have? You just get this like jolt into a different place and you can play and be much lighter." Yeah. So basically here I just gave us a drum loop and then we just jammed for ages. Like, I mean, I just made that in two seconds, just something to play along to. Right. And very impressed by the way he brought us back into the song. I really love that. The other context here is obviously you can't remember who was, you know, there was all these different marine animals. I can't remember who was what for this song. Maybe we will, if we find the footage. But the point is it doesn't really matter by the time it's done. It's just braided everyone in the moment. But the other thing that I wonder, I'll tell you now, maybe I wonder if this will be a complex thing. Basically we were doing this thing of playing other songs or grooves until we weren't anymore, basically. So you just would choose a song at random and then we jam on it kind of like a wedding band and then naturally over 20 minutes, everyone would just evolve into being something else. So in this case, this song weirdly started with us playing a shit wedding band version of this. Timeless, timeless. Hey! Wow. Yeah, so tough. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't sound like that obviously, but like, you can hear the link. You can see the link. So who's doing what in this jam set? So in this jam, we just got a drum looping and then Marcos playing bass. Ben is playing this funny little sad. Jack is on a mic which I put through lots of effects. So for example, I asked him to go, "So that would become. " He does that. Wow. Then I make it go. Wow. So that just becomes this nice animated shake. Yeah. So Jack can kind of speak into the mic and they become these rhythmic things that you can just be going like, "And they'll become these. " Right. So basically we just jam on this for ages. It's pretty like, you know, you can tell these guys are finding where they want to. You know, it's definitely not arrived yet. And this is like 30 minutes long of us, just like. Oh. Just take your swan out of it. One of us is on a guitar. Maybe Jack's on my can guitar. And what are you on? What are you on? You're on lap time. I think I might just be on nothing. I think I might be just asking people to do different things. Yeah, because you can see sometimes, huh? And then. Stay there. There we go. It's another one. So everyone's just. I mean, it's pretty like. For example, one of the backstory descriptions here was like talking about A tonality. And I basically never write A tonally. I don't generally like that type of harmony as much. But I think what us being asked to write A tonally by these things led us to doing is essentially everyone's on one or two notes. Because if we were like. Like if we just kind of hear. Because if it becomes like A tonal, but we're like. And it becomes just too intellectual. So I think the version of A tonal that I could handle was just two notes that happened to be chromatic. Just these two. So yeah, we're all just kind of finding our way. Keeps going. Something must happen here because I've marked it. And at this point, by the way, I should say we are having such a nice time. Yeah. Everyone's just having. This is just a joy. Like it's just like. You're just feeding out. There's no pressure. Enjoying sitting on a groove with friends like. And then getting his sound closer here. This sound. This is the sound that became. A compound which is in the. That's Jack going. So that's voice. Yeah, that's Jack. Just going. You can hear he's just going. And then it becomes. Everyone's cracking up because it's me. And are you. You're manipulating all those sounds at the same time. Yeah. So you, like say, that Jack's voice there. Are you putting a plug in on that? Yeah, I'll sort of set up a set of ingredients that I can then play within real time. And then I noticed this morning when I loaded this up at the end. I then go. Get the box of someone. Chucks like you are. I'm talking to Jackie but someone chopped like in the tone. Eight minutes that we can just jam with. Like someone's crying, like beer or something like that. So I think at this point I was like, okay, who could sit on this. I think, yeah, who could sit not stand. Beer's voice is just caramel and she can really spray. So I was thinking what if we had bars but they were going through this sort of thing. So you could catch words sometimes but it was half instrument, half vocals. So we're sort of approaching. I mean, we're still pretty far away at that point but it's closer than it sounds, I think. Because actually everyone's sounds is arriving at the place and the groove isn't going to change. The big things are actually more set in stone than it sounds. And so then we played along to like. I changed the drums to that a little bit more sturdy. And I was playing bass at this point. So that's right, the idea for this then became. I delayed everyone in the jam by different amounts. So I put everyone through latency, but different amounts of latency against their will. But by different amounts. So the drums are locked and everyone else, myself included, is like being forced to play through intense latency. But to different amounts. So you get this groove that's just like. So for example, the bass here, I can kind of show you what it sounds like with and without the latency on. But like. The bass is delayed by 1,619 samples. The guitar is delayed by 526 samples. Quite a reasonable amount. Ben's sound is delayed by 1,500 samples. Then. Jackie's. Glass. So this is him hitting a. Dear bottle. Like that. And that is delayed by. 1,097 samples. So basically just means that like. You know, if I play this. I'll play it without beer for a second so we can just feel the groove feel like. I love the way that groove feels so much because it's all like. Just. Just holding together. So if I put everything back in time. Totally loses the feeling to me. It's all just. Whereas when it all becomes sloppy, it's got the funk again. Like that is. That was the idea. And then I also. Oh my god, we're having so much fun. We could jam on this forever because everyone was locked into these different latencies. And it was quite funny doing it that way because usually when I've jammed like that. In sort of tribute to people like Dilla and the greats who sort of first started to move the snare forward and the hat back and these kind of things. Usually you're playing it that way. But what I quite liked about this is that no one had a choice. It wasn't us trying to play away. It was us trying to play something else and then being forced into a different place by the latency. And they could hear the latency or so. Yeah, they were playing into it like that. So like. And so yeah, then as I kind of. We were jamming along to this vocal that I was always been trying to decimate with from beer that I had also delayed by 1,100 samples. So like. And I'm playing live bass that's like. And then the bass, my bass and Marko's bass kind of became like responses like. *Music* [Music] Yeah, so the bones of the groove are there that changes and stuff all amests because we're all changing chords at different times and we haven't decided anything. But basically then I just took this long jam and edited it into feeling like like. oh yeah this is just the same vibe it's just me or Jack on the mic just going right and then I just recorded loads of like this. Oh yeah and this is the shaker from that first jam. What was that? It's good shaker. Okay, that is actually that's delayed by 1,000 points from that is an idea. I would never. If it wasn't for listening to the to the playback like I would never have thought okay I want to have this constant. Yeah but it's a really key ingredient of the because it gives you this cut that's delayed the kick in the snare on so it gives you this constant metric of like where the groove sits that everything else slots around and yeah and then it goes into the kind of structuring and trying to find the bits that groove best. And then I chopped her up and she started having like. And then Jack on the beer bottle. I think the way we. I think the way we pitched that. I think he must have tilted it while he was doing it so I don't quite know how that's happening. I don't know how we did that but it's in the file so something in the room we must have been. Yeah. You can't have been pouring it out whilst he was saying. So yeah these are all plugins wise I generally just use logic plugins and a few other things but not many there's like that as a springberg. This little thing I wanted to add on the hook that's the logic retro so. Yeah and it's really fun making a record this way because I like go back to the bit where I'm on my own and I've just got this like 20 minutes of us jamming with all these different expressions and ideas and groove switches and bass note choices I would never have done. I've just got this like palette of stuff to work with so that it becomes a puzzle but yeah really different to like the way like Solo was for example. Yeah really really interesting in that you're creating a situation where people can do a certain thing but also it has a fluidity and can move in lots of different directions and to get towards something that excites and interests. Yeah yeah. But you already had the beer vocal that was in. That's in that other sort of area of process I was talking about. Like the sort of a massing of samples and ideas is another sort of constant background thing that I'm just doing I do it with my both of my brothers I work with and then we've got a few mates who will play and send stuff to and stuff like that and that's just sort of constantly worrying away and then I've got these folders of ideas to try in these moments. And it also means that you get to experience the music making that you started out doing which is playing instruments and playing together with people you're still doing that. So you don't get too lost in the box. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. I know I've been we've done a lot of this in the last year or two and it's been so so so fun. Well when that's a great process that whole approach to free people up and free yourself up really exciting can we have a blast of the ending to round things off for first? And the beat of session was that something you'd done together or was that? No that was there was a few different records of hers. This is a hybrid of two different flows from two different songs of hers and then we got in together and tried a few other parts that added to it like when she said time looking with no makeup on and a few other bits that I then added but they're all going through like I'll show you what it sounds like without beer sort of put into the same processes everyone else because if she was like this that's her not delayed and not put into the same chopping thing as everyone else but she kind of becomes she's her groove becomes locked in I mean she how much was she delayed by 1,149 samples so yeah she gets locked in but what I you can kind of still catch words and the flow and the feeling and the attitude but it doesn't feel like this clean lead vocal on top of the beat yeah and also what I like about that is it allows she's kind of anticipating the beat in her flow so you get her the spirit of her anticipating it but then she's chopped and delayed so she's she's simultaneously kind of ahead of it but then in reality what's coming out through the chopping and the latency is she's kind of behind it in a way that I found quite fun every track on this song has logic spring verbon it right that's just interesting to see now yeah yeah yeah well I guess you presumably have lots of options you know what kind of delay tool do you need yeah yeah yeah but this would be the thing I would most most most like advise people to do is like I've been I've spent so many thousands of hours wasted on plugins and getting into the weeds and these things like I would just say choose I've made it so that my logic I've just got this one menu that just has the eight plugins I use or whatever that is 12 or whatever and it just doesn't matter you want you want to do the things that liberate your mind to be hearing well not whether or not this compressor or this compressor or this distortion and this distortion the the thing that's most dangerous about getting so into that is that you'll just become you'll forget about whether or not the chorus is wrong or like whether or not the chord progression actually is not serving the feeling right like I really when we did I was doing I did days a few days like kind of teaching at some unies last year and one of the things we did that was a good way of demonstrating this is I made a session that made a few sounds a vocal a drum and a guitar thing like a cool sound and I made the exact same sound in like all logic same sound in all another set of plugins same sound in all another one and I played with everyone it was all the same like and it was good or bad it doesn't just depending on what your ear and judgment is like it does it just could not matter less like I think there's the category of like a plugin that's like really playful and random and like a crazy new synth that really surprises you I think playing with things like that like toys and other things is a great thing to do but in terms of like your reverb compressor EQ all these things I would just say delete everything apart from just choose one two three five doesn't matter what you choose they're all great choose which one you like the most sound of most and just work within that and then focus on writing songs is what I would say yeah yeah very interesting but I guess you put in the hours and you you've come to that conclusion and yeah I'm sure you've learned something along the way but I think what I think I would what I've learned is that it's what matters is your ear so I think if I could go back I mean I there's a lot of like writings and articles and things about hearing the difference between this one and this one and if you can't hear that then you really need to work on your ear and all these things this quite like and it's all emperors new clothes it's all I've seen people make the most incredible sounding records in every way so therefore all that matters is the ear like I've seen people do it in the all tape analog SSL desk and it's incredible and I've seen sunny do it all in the laptop and it sounds better than in in in in that way so there's clearly then it's most important to just liberate your headspace and not be worried about a being like this like you're a scientist and just think like okay does it EQ yes great does it do I like the way it sounds great next yeah I'm very passionate about that yeah fascinating right we're gonna take a quick break and the next song we'll get a little bit we're gonna take a quick break in the next one such a pro we're gonna take a quick break in the next song we're gonna look at is hardstyle to before we get into hardstyle to I have a few questions from patreon again that we're gonna look at so one is from Philip Kaminsky since the last time you're on take notes is there something that fundamentally changed in your process or is there something you came across recently that changed your workflow or your approach to certain aspects in your creativity yeah I think I'm jamming way more again like we used to do that a little bit maybe like two maybe [BLANK_AUDIO] us. I'm doing a lot of like five of us in a room with drums really playing together with people because to what we were saying earlier that's the thing I feel is increasingly precious. So I want to value it. Yeah, totally. Zetia asks, how do you manage such a high amount of releases both technically and creatively? Do you hold back projects that never come out or do you share most of your work? The sad truth is that I only release about probably one or two percent of what I make. And I know we generally put a fair amount of music, but yeah, I just make stuff every day. It's just like what I do. And that doesn't, and most of it's rubbish. So yeah, the truth is it's a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction. Ross wants to know, with USB 002, things are different from track to track. What is it you think that makes them Fred again tracks? I don't know. I'm that guy. So it would be best for someone who's not me to answer that. I guess maybe that's asking about the question because obviously you have worked with and you continue to work with people on various different projects. And obviously you get in the studio with different people and something ends up being your track and something ends up there track. Yeah, yeah. That is usually a bit clearer. Usually I understand quite clearly it's whether or not something's like part of the heart that I want to represent with my name. And that comes down to a feeling. Yeah, I mean, it's always a feeling. But like the USB songs are like we're saying earlier are kind of what's fun about it is that it's liberated from any like high concept stuff. And that's I think can sometimes allow me to make that can be a good creative thing. But I think I think I think I don't know. And I think if I did know that probably would be bad if I sort of had total clarity on what was generally I can kind of feel it through and me and my brothers and loose and people and we'll all usually it just by the time I've arrived at something. If I've worked on something enough to finish it, I'm like, this is all of me is this I've done like this is yeah. Yeah. Right. We're going to stop those questions and delve into hardstyle too. So if you could give Sir Blast to the Master, that would be great. Let me see. That sound at the beginning, that was me asking Evan to sing Catamere. Yeah. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing My star, my star, got to be hard star, my star, my star, my star, my star, my star. That's not, maybe not, maybe not. A little taste of hard style too with Katamur and shady nasty and I've got a thank you Fred because you have introduced me to shady nasty through that track who I was unaware of so they're trio from Australia who had their own song hard style a few years ago. Yeah. How did that whole connection go to the set? Because of Evan Katamur he played me a song way then and I was like oh my god this is absolutely incredible and then I listened to their album track which is insanely, insanely good. By the original sense. I love the sound. It's so like clany but like honed. And his lyrics I just find so powerful. Like I've said this before but like he kind of reminds me of what I love so much about my skin and his lyrics. There's this like really detailed storytelling that is so specific. It's like clearly only his life and yeah the musicianship on the whole record is crazy beautiful. So yeah there was that song by then and then there's also this combined two songs by then. The other one is this. So yeah well what I started with was this. I actually know what was first is would have been somewhere there's a thing of listening to it with different drones. The first thing was just trying to find the place where the vocal felt most right at this point I was making two different ideas. I was making one that samples the get bus someone one that sampled hard stuff and this is like just playing his vocal over like just simple like it could be like just that or it could be like just just held drones to see what harmony like framed his words in a way that felt right I guess and so like this is an example of what. To create the drones what are you using I remember when we were here last time you were explaining how instead of having a blank canvas you would often create a whole variety of different drones just as a way to maybe start the day even. Yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean this is I've done this in the quickest way I could do it which is I've just dragged up a logic piano and just played I'll make one now just put it into a verb just it's mainly about choice of harmony you can do any sound and just put it into stretch it on like a stretch or in logic and then or in this case I just put it into a big verb that's the one I just made. So that feeling compared with this feeling this one is to me more like longing but like there's a positivity to it I think this one is like brighter that it feels like he's it feels like he's maybe feels more good about that being what he's got to be in that one maybe this one. This is like feels like there's the angst it's like sitting on the minus three chord it's kind of constantly on the B so it's like always unresolved. And then this one's quite nice. This is a little bit more question marky. But yeah these are all like diatonic I'm not even going into chromatic notes or anything it's just different versions of like one two maybe three notes and what they make his emotion feel like and then I think what I arrived at is the notes of the angst you have done but played on a randomizer I think it's like this sound. So they're like these little kind of droplets that and for the whole song they just run through so like I'll show you in the record like instead of it being. That kind of wall is just just randomly it just picks different ones randomly each time there's no pattern which means that each time you get the chord it's slightly differently frame so it might be when you get the f one time you get like. Because the bass notes are just like three different notes it's very simple but they each get like slightly differently framed in a way that I found quite pleasing and then what happened now. Oh yeah and then I had this whole other version where I thought it should be like. So leaving in the guitar. Yeah well I've just played a new guitar. Oh right right. Yeah. But yeah so I said I wanted it to sound like sometimes. Sometimes I like it when parts of the music feel like they're from the same sample as the vocal and so I thought if I could write a guitar part that could still feel. Ideas in there's something in that kind of idea, I don't know, like this execution of it, but um. And that was like trying to become sort of like. So it's interesting that I mean, Ketema introduced you to the band. Yeah. We associate Ketema with dance music and he's involved in this track. Yeah. So did that make you think in those terms as well? No, I think. Or maybe we could hit the dance floor. Yeah, you know, within the school. I think what. Yeah, so we. I think I worked on a little sketch and then him and I got together and he made these drums. Which isn't actually quite where it ended up, but it's kind of the groove of where it ended up. And so yeah, I think we tried a few different ideas that first day, Ketema, special mention for him being the first person, who came with a laptop which didn't have a screen that worked and so he was on fruity loops on that. TV. We had this massive screen of fruity loops and he was over here just having like beers with a mouse on the kitchen, just controlling fruity loops on the side of the room. It was a great, it was a very new studio. And he came up with that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he'd made these kind of drums and he's got this really. I love the way he does his thing. It's very kind of like frenetic and quick in a way that's fun to work with. But then we kept working on it remotely, basically, and I kept trying different things. At this point, it's still just a version of hardstyle. I haven't. I was using the verse as well. And then I just kept listening to the other song, the tough love piece. And he. I realized that they were kind of, to me, selling the same story. But they both feel like this repressed matcho. I've got to be this. I've got to present this very pressurized mind. It feels like it's like claustrophobic minds. Like when he then says, "All of this stuff." And they're in the same key. Or like one semi-tone out or something. So I could make them. And so then I was like, "Okay, hold on. Maybe the verse is what the chorus from the other song was and the chorus is this." And then what happened? "Okay, these are the little plucks I was telling you about." These cute little piglet squids. I think there was a randomizer that, on a later version, which changes the octave and every now and then means you get. And what's the synth that's creating that sound? That's logic, yes, too. Right. Or weiss move quick, waiting for a kinship. Oh, yeah. So here then. This is the bass, which is just the default serum sound. It's like when you load up serum, it just plays a saw wave. And that's that. I put it into this thing that moves the filter, filter freak. Very diminishing, I'm not sure that's doing much on that. Oh, yes, slightly giving it movement. And that vocal is Amber from Japanese House and her voice is just the best thing ever. And that was the thing. I think what I liked about that is like pairing this super match, I think, with this calming angel who's around him. So that was. She's just across the. Every syllable that comes out, I just think. I just don't know. Yeah, there's magic in everything she sings. And is that from another track? Is that from another session? Yeah, that's from a vocal of something that she'd sent me. So then I just did this for about 45 minutes and just had a lovely day. The sound of her doing. And she's always. in this kind of tension, which I love the sound of when you've got a bass note that's like. such a nice tension, those two notes, the way it matched with the bass. And yeah, it's sort of starting to find itself. Now I think Evan, me and Ketama got together again. So yeah, at this point you can see like the Amber part is there, but it's kind of constantly random. And I wanted to find a bit more of a consistent sort of line for her, which is then. It's a bit distracting how much there's two lead vocals there. So I wanted her to be kind of a bit more ethereal and therefore a bit more hypnotic, I think. And then the last session I think is then adding my friend Dan, Mayo on drums, who we were jamming within. to lose in places. And he played. He says stuff sounded like this. And it just gave this nice. I think probably what I was trying to get from the guitar part, having the feeling that it was like born from a record that was more like rocky, I think I was then like maybe trying to get from the drums instead. So he sent these parts that we kind of worked on that were like. I've put all of his drums stems into one stem at this point, because this is the finishing session, but like. Yeah, that sounds. And then at the full groove, they sound like this. So I then just chopped up this whole take of him to get different fills and grooves. And he played on the groove for like 20 minutes or whatever and just tried a million different ideas. And what have you done to process those? So they would have originally been like 10 different stems and I would have mainly just tried to make them as precise in their transients as possible. So I'd have just gated them and then this would be one of my eight. This is a really useful plugin. It's called ST4B or STAB, I think. It's like a transient shape, but frequency-specific, quite useful for live sounds that you want to make tighter. Because yeah, I wanted it to feel like you can hear it. There's a human in the expression and the fills of a human playing drums, but I didn't want it to have this big, roomy, rocky sound that took up all the space that needed to knock and have precision so I could still play it just in a club, just. And then yeah, at the end of his take, he went full chaos. And we were just like, just try something where you just totally. It needs to sound like you just have the breakdown that the shady nasty guys Kevin is singing about. It needs to sound like the drums just totally given and have a total mental breakdown, which then became this. , yeah. And that I shut out down and I could think it's just. he couldn't have nailed the brief more. Sounds like a man just reaching the absolute total internal combustion. Totally. Sounds amazing. And yet somehow it is also drum and bass. Yeah, it's just. It's just. It's just. It's fun playing that in clubs because you hear the song disintegrate into. like by this point, hearing this in a room that is used to these clubby sections, I love how visceral the emotion of it is. And I love how he pairs with the. with the. Like it's so. Yeah, I just adore his playing now. Yeah, and do you combine it with other things at all? Or do you. There it's just totally raw. Yeah, I just mixed it very tight so that the. Yeah, I mean drum mixing is a. It's a long thing. This has only got the stuff that I've got on the master because I've since bounced all the stems into one drum thing. So the master alone is doing quite a bit, which is. That. became that. But most of it would be inside the session that we actually recorded into, which has got lots of saturators, and different gates that trigger the opening of. It's quite a techy setup, and I'm not sure that without having the session to walk through, it would be too easy to walk through, but like it's essentially all of the complicated things in the session at all in search of trying to get a drum sound that feels real, but has tight transience and control. So like the snare still knocks like how a club snare would, and similarly with the kick, but yeah, roughly that. Yeah. What was Shady Narciss' first reaction to that? I mean, and what point did you share? Because you obviously combined two songs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's quite. They're a fascinating group in that they're kind of post-rock, in a way. Post-rock, post-punk, and yet they've got this vocal style that is more rap, I suppose. Yeah. And the drummer, I think, kind of comes from a jazz background, which you can totally hear and how like. Sometimes it sounds like he's playing jazz ideas, but on a rock-mike to kick, like in a way that it's like. Like it sounds like he's doing these brushes hits that react to the vocal lines, but it just so happens that the drum kit and the miking of it is like a rock sound. Yeah, they were like. Yeah, those guys are great. They came to Dublin and we played it there a few weeks ago, and yeah, they were sick. I mean, we did another record actually with Getmer with them, which is just his vocals and basically just piano. And this came after that, so we were already in touch, kind of at that point, and they knew how much of a fan I was of theirs. Yeah, it's great. I mean, the USB project really has been a way for you to bring worlds together and have worlds collide, you know, be it Amy from Amon The Sniffers to Shady Dusty or so many different styles and bring them into your world as well, which has been really exciting. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's great. Is there anything else we need to hear from Hardstyle 2, do you think? Let me see if there's another part of the session that I. No, all good. Yeah, excellent. Well, let's round this up with maybe a blast to the ending from Hardstyle 2. I can feel my heart is beating fast. Just look, you're no matchy. I know. Yeah, I can feel my heart beating fast. I can feel my heart beating fast. You got to play. You got to play. My style. My style. That's your own thing. Fantastic. Hardstyle 2 with Ketema and Shady Nasty, just a couple more questions Fred. Yeah. Before we get out of your hair and out of your house, with regard to this record, is there one piece of kit that this record couldn't be the same without? I'm trying not to give an annoying answer, because the truth is like laptop, I don't know. But one bit of. No, is that good answer? Right. It's a simple answer. Fred, we've talked to you three times now on Take Notion. We're very grateful and thank you so much for inviting us back into the house to hang out. And we've asked you this question before, but as you know, things change and life evolves. Advice. We always ask people for advice, and whether they've received any, whether they've got any that they want to share at this point. What do you think? I think. I said this before, maybe not here, but the thing that stays with me the most, I think, is taking the criticism that resonates is a useful compass sometimes, like not being immune to criticism, but not being totally vulnerable to it. But if you just take the criticism that resonates, that comment that someone says that piss you off in the moment, but the next day they might say, I felt like the chorus wasn't as good as the verse, or I don't know, something really simple like that. And it might be like, you're at the moment, you're like, "Ah, fuck you, you don't get it." But then like a few days later, you're kind of listening and you're like, maybe the chorus isn't as like, you feel this thought. So, those are the criticisms that I think can be most helpful in like guiding you because they're the ones that play on your instinct. And I think that stuff is really important because if you're just totally in your own head, you just go down a rabbit hole. So that's something that my friend Rup said to me that's really stayed with me. Other than that, I would just say collaboration and other humans is always the answer. Not least just because doing it with other humans is funer than not. And I think you can get great results both ways. So I would choose the one that has more like connection in it. Yeah. Is there anything else? That's great. And talking of connection, we should reconnect to the album and play one more song, or kind of end piece and outro piece. What should we go with? This is my, where I just can't remember any music I've ever made. I can play the song with thug. This is called scared scared and two features on this young thug. Oh, young thug, right. Okay. Oh, actually, you know what? Before I play this, this is a useful thing. This, I will show plugins on this one sound because everyone asked me about this sound. And I think it demonstrates my point in a way that I'm happy to share. So this sound that comes at the end of this song, sorry, I've derailed. Lovely. There's this sound that comes here in this song that sounds like this. This sound now. You'll never show you scared, babe. [Music] So yeah, that sound. Loads and loads of people have asked me about how I made that. And I didn't know, but I checked this morning. And it's just logic plugins, going, it's just logic synth going into logic plugins. But the order of them is quite interesting because so basically it's this sound, a retro synth saw wave, I think. But I'm automating the glide, so it's sliding at different speeds. And then at some point, doing a few more things in that. But basically it goes into this, that could be a chroma verb, it's just giving it a sense of space. And the thing that's fun is that this flanger is basically set and automated. There's all these things that I've just sort of moved whilst I was playing it, the rate and the intensity and the things in the EQ are moving as well. But basically that flanger sound is going into the phase distortion. And what that means is that there's just like an infinite quantity of variables of resonances that are triggering the phase distortion. If I put them the other way around and the flanger comes after the phase distortion, the sound becomes much simpler again. It's just very predictably, you just hear the flanger. Whereas when those resonances are forced into the distortion before, it means that it's poking and triggering the distortion constantly in different ways. And then as well as that, there's also things like the decay of the room is being automated, so that fundamental thing is changing. Or before it hits both distortions, this one and the one before. I mean, that's a simpler version of the chords. But I just find that so satisfying to listen to the way it's hitting the distortion in different resonances. And I was pleasantly surprised when I checked this morning. I was like, "Great, that really makes my point well because it's all logic plugins. It's plugins I've had since I was 13 and I first got a logic. But the thing that was interesting to me was the idea of how can I trigger the distortion in a way that's going to be filled really alive?" And that was just a new idea. It was the idea, not the like having a new thing that I think led to a sound that I was really excited by. The one other thing I should say, so I'm not selling it a little bit short, is that I did then split it into all its different monophonic notes so that I could change the speed of the glide of each note. So each note is sliding to different notes at different speeds, which is what gives it the feeling of like this. That helps give it a little bit of expression too. But yeah, the main idea is that thing. Yeah, fantastic. Fred, thank you. We will end with scared with Young Thug from USB. Thank you for listening and in particular thanks to all of you who have signed up to supporters on Patreon. I'm just one part of the team that brings you take notes and it relies on your support. 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