Tina Friml: Living in the Bonus Round

(upbeat music) - At what age do you remember? Like what part of your life in what age do you remember going, oh, I am different because I'm being told I'm different so much? - Well, I remember that the first time I ever kind of heard about this, I was a little kid five years old, I'm in the car at night with my family, my brother, my older brother, suddenly just chimed in like, "Hey, Mom, I'm down, so why does Tina talk weird?" (laughing) - Oh, what was this guy? - He ever spoke to me. (laughing) - What happened? - What happened? (laughing) - It was like seven, okay? - Little man. - And they kind of, they kind of like socially random way, only kids, you know? - That's what it feels like. - No, you know what I love because you're in a car, you're a family. So it's not even like an outside I think. - Yeah. - But the fact that he says it, not to you by the way, 'cause like you're not dead. - Yo, Mom and Dad, like he's been holding this in for so long. - For seven years. - Yo, Mom and Dad, yo, okay, I gotta ask now, bro. - And you know this guy, it's not like he just met you. - That's what I was saying. - And there wasn't even talking. (laughing) - It's just, what the hell? (upbeat music) - This is what now, with Trevanoa. (upbeat music) - Where'd you come from? - Where, today or like in my life? - I mean, you can answer either one. (laughing) Let's start with your life first. (laughing) - I actually live in Boston now. - Like you live there, live there? - Yeah, yeah. - For real, I move there. - Last thing you write? - Hey, how are you? - Hey, how are you? - Boston. - Boston. - Boston. - Boston, Boston. - Is that Boston? - It is. - Boston. - Boston, Boston. - Boston, Boston. - Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. - Is that man from Cambridge? - Oh, that's fancy. - Wait, so why did you move there? Where did you, where did you come from originally that you moved there? - I moved them up. - Yeah, I lived up, I've been in England. And then moved here for six years. - Yeah. - I'm in Bushwick, and then I just heard a while. What am I doing so much anyway? But I, like, depending on the conversation, like if I can't really get into it, I just say, oh, I'm out to work. I didn't want to pay New York rent. (laughing) But like, the real reason I lived in Bushwick, did we know Bushwick? - Yeah, we know Bushwick. - But I didn't want, I couldn't, like, I loved you, but Bushwick until you hit it. - Yeah, but it's so young, Bohemian. - Ah. - I moved there at 25. - Oh, yes, that's the right time, yes. - Young Bohemian polyamorous. (laughing) - Young Bohemian polyamorous. It's a great teacher. - Polyamorous is better than promiscuous. Any day, make the right choice. - It was ethical. (laughing) - Ethically, I mean, that was weird. (laughing) - Ethically, nominous. - And ethically monogamous. (laughing) - Let's just stop that as a thing. - I'm ethically monogamous. Thank you very much. - I feel like that's helping out there, feels like it's like, I had to disclose to be honest. - To be honest. - I was monogamous. - Yes, the people know you. - Yeah, because you know when you're in like, what I like to call like vibe places. - Yes. - The default flips, right? - Yeah, exactly. - So you'll be in a place where what you normally think of as default is now no longer the default. So when you're in that place, you have to now say certain things. - Yeah, yeah. - So when you know places, it's vibe, cool, fashion, everything, you have to be like, oh, by the way, I'm straight. They're like, oh, oh wow, okay. You look at you, how, when did you get here? What are you doing here? - Ah, because people automatically assume. - Yeah, because the vibe of the place is like, it's dictated by something else, the fashion, the views that people have. It's actually think it's cool for people to go to places like that so that they can see what it's like should not be default, do you know what I mean? - Yeah, well, I mean, I'm in a mess now. And straight because I did the whole, the whole set of like, it's not the lack of trying. You tried it, didn't it all? It's a way came out to my Bushwick friends at a copper bar as monogamous, they were like, good at you. That's amazing too, and I'm like, wow. - Sounds like a joke, it's 100% right? - That's why it's funny to me. - So how long in Bushwick now? Before you left? - Six years, yeah. - You did your time. - What? - '31. - I got it till the age of 32. And that was just like. - Okay, but like no shade to Boston, but like, why Boston? - Okay. - Well, I don't know of anyone who moves to Boston like often in New York, especially if they're in like, comedy and stuff. - I get that all the time, I get why Boston? - Okay, great, so I'm not crazy, yeah. - No, but again, Cambridge. So I live in Cambridge which is like, Harvard, MIT, area, - Oh, okay. - So I'm from Vermont, but I'm from Melbourne, Vermont, which is a college, like a very high-end college with more town. - Yeah. - So it's the mixture of like, I mean, very familiar. To me, to be among college kids. - You should have been around college kids. - Oh, I was going in a different direction. At the teenage just wants to be around college kids. - Oh, I was like, what is, what are you exposing? Are you coming out of something else? - No, no, no, no. - You're coming out of an intelligent kids. - There's kids around me. - Mmm, kids with open dreams. - Mmm, it's that, the kids, it's so professors. - Oh, it's the professors. (laughing) - I mean, I love being around intellectual people, because they are the freakiest ones. - Damn. - They, yeah. - Mmm, okay. - Why are you saying it like that? - Yeah, like this. - Have you been freaky or have you been intellectual? Who, what are you, what are you, mm-hmm about? - I come out to you as normal. (laughing) I'm from Bushwick. (laughing) - This is a safe table. - Ah, yeah, okay. - No, when I saw, when I saw that picture of Stephen Hawkins at F.D. Island, - Yeah, yeah. - This you were like, I then I knew. - I mean, that, that is a harsh but accurate example. - Yeah. - But yeah, no, it, it, it, it, it, it, sounds like a joke, but I'm trying to put a sentence through that, that intellectual academic nerds. You know, they're the ones who, they, they get, don't I mean, they, you know, so much of my comedy is about kink, it's about alternative underground lifestyles. And people are like, oh, why would you move away from New York? - Like, I moved into it. - That, I really did. - Yeah. - Which one of the matter is that, that like, yeah, of course, it's out here in New York. But, in Cambridge, you know, the, I, I actually think there's more creativity and more, more energy towards kink spaces, alternative, goth, you know, all, all the above. - Do you think it's because the environment is all about people exploring in general? Like, like, like, what do you think it is? - I don't think you know what. - Do you get what I'm saying? Like, if you're in a learning/experimenting environment, why would, why would that not extend beyond your science and your math and your history and your writing into your sex life? - You know, I've been thinking about this. I don't 100% know, but I have theories. - What? - You've come to the right place. - That's why. - That's really, I'm a professor. (laughing) - Impulsion! - I don't think it's sexy to breathe to this topic, maybe like, 45 minutes? - No, no, no, no, no, we start hot, we go straight in. - No, so here's my theory and, you know, I think it's too easy to say, oh, to be in a, a more kind of conservative area that breathes, that, that breathes is kind of a belly in kink. - I don't think it's that simple. I really, I think that, in my experience, at least the more logical that people get into the way the world works and the way the humans work, the more, the more permission they have, I think, to kind of explore who they are. - Experiment, yeah. - Well, I think that combined with, a little bit of boredom, to be honest, because being out in Boston now, it's sort of like, I am, I mean, Boston has a lot, but it's no New York. Yeah, definitely. Well, this kind of standard of, did say stimulation. I mean, it really did for me. You bring it all, always builds up some, something to fill the gaps. And I think that, for me, no pun intended, because I know where your jean's mind goes, fill the gaps while we're talking about, sorry, Tina, I just had to block him. I saw his eyes change. Oh, are you, are you kidding me, are you kidding me? I didn't do anything else. I was, I was loving to stay and leave me out of your, I mean, if there's a bust, my friends, I will throw you under it. It's, it's that combination, you know, is boredom and there's human nature of our brain to fill, fill in the gaps with, with just our own stimulus. And that, of course, there's the elephant in the room, that, that, you know, often academic people, they're, you know, they're in role playing D&D. Oh, yeah. That's true. Yeah. You know, there's some, um, a large percentage were artistic. And that is a huge, uh, popular among the King's Seas. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. Wait. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tina, where have you been all my life? Bam. What's your dress? This is Hannah. Wait, what? Tell us more about the old boy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm going to wash, wash, wash, wash, wash, wash, wash, wash, wash, wash. But I mean, I, um, well, why I think, I think that, um, I, I, to them people who have out of them, they, they do find a lot of comfort and community in the, in any kind of alternative scene, because it's, it's automatically welcoming to the idea of the other. Like it, it, it's more accommodating. Yeah. It's more accommodating than the defaults. Exactly. And, and there's this masking what the word they call masking, which we all do. Right. Um, which is the concept of a pin normal amongst they in order to be accepted and, uh, you know, um, and having that, that godlet down, you know, it really, you know, we're kink and with a lot of alternative spaces, especially with the internet, there's a cringe factor. Yeah. There are people who know how to be a world. Um, and, I, uh, with, with kink, kink, D&D, any kind of nerd fandom, you know, that's where, um, dark romance comes from, you know, this, what dark romance? Yeah, kind of like, um, uh, sounds like a Lady Gaga album. Boy, no, I mean, it could be. I thought it was just like Eugene's affairs in general. How many bastards are there today? Every second. I feel like I'm laying so much about you. I feel the same. Look, I'm like, whatever. Oh, man. You see like my target demograph. This conversation, but, but like, dark romance, kind of like, um, fan, fan fiction. Yeah. Um, um, uh, Twilight, for example, although there's a terrible example, but, um, that kind of, um, uh, I've been to like an anime convention. No, I've never been. Okay. I've been to Comic Con. Comic Con. Yeah. Where were you going to tell me this? And people are dressed up in costume and you've been to Comic Con. No, Ruto and like, no, make your live. No, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. What were you doing there in Johannesburg? They have one, but you went. Yeah. Why would you go? You don't even watch anime. Do you? Is this the number I want? Are you ready to come out? He doesn't watch anime. I know this for sure. I want to go watch the people who watch anime. Oh, good people watching. Yeah, I am. Yeah, I'm good at people watching. I love it. It's my favorite thing to do. Okay. So, okay. So, sorry, you were saying so anime. Well, so, uh, what they call fandom, which is, uh, take community based around it. Um, and I put you some show book series. Um, and, uh, you know, what, what this cluster of people come in and they, um, you know, whether it's class playing or coming together and they, um, it really, uh, I'm not going to say the whole thing is a rise, but a rise of them is a large part. Okay. But, you know, um, I think a lot of it is like, so I love anime. Yeah. And what do you look, you know this about me? You've, you've, you've seen my, he's seen my TV. He doesn't, this guy's going to act like he doesn't know me. I had something in my eye. What's wrong with you? I was like, no, so I love anime. And there's, it doesn't matter whether it's the male characters or female characters. All of it, I think, has an A of eroticism around it. Like all of it has a, there's just like a, you know, there's an undercurrent that's constantly flowing in anime all the time. All the time. Yeah. I mean, I, I, human nature, I think that that's what, I mean, makes it so compelling. And in my opinion, as to the escapism, um, of, you know, being in the fictional world and being able to explore fictional worlds in a variety of different ways. Right. Did you grow up as an anime fan? Were you? I grew up adjacent to anime. So, what does that mean? Just cartoons. What is anime adjacent? I mean, that like, I did not watch anime myself over my best friend. Oh, I know. I know this thing. I myself, you know, please, you know, let me tell you something. No, no, no, I hate all you people who use us anime watches to like watch and then claim you don't watch it. But then you'll be like, can you rewind? Wait, wait, just rewind it. Yeah. I want to see what Gany Maru said there. Just rewind. So you know his name Into the oh god the passion for and she would go on these message boards and just Roll play with all these damn. I think you bring up a good point there. I think Watching people who are fans of something is equally as enjoyable for us You love that because it passed. Yeah, I Eugene loves this. They really yeah, yeah, he's a passion vampire Yeah, when someone has a passion. I'm like tell me more Eugene is like a watch them miss the day I watch their toys their eyes their lows Well, I remember that one world the greatest memories I have someone X who were the huge Star Wars nerd made the force be with him We're getting this I'm sorry Can this come out on May 4th? Incredible But like the probably one the greatest memories I had was one day We got a package He said it's here Like he's he's a boy. He turned into like a child, and he was so bad. It's a late super But but not even a full late super oh, they go turn off late super look - They didn't do the actual rule. - Oh yeah, it doesn't do the actual rule. - It didn't do the rule. - No, no, no. - It's just the met, yeah, if you've seen those, they're very beautiful, so it's a light, it's the handle of a lightsaber. - It's a thread of a lightsaber. - Yes, but it's like a lightsaber, but then the Jedi didn't charge it last night. I wonder if that happens sometimes. Like Luke Skywalker don't even go out. And then they'll be like, "Hmm, time to fight, we shall." And they're like, "Oh, Master Yoda, did not charge you did." And it's like, "Ah, yeah, I forgot to charge." I put it by the bedside, but then I didn't plug the thing in like, "Duffin, you are not my son. I would always charge my lightsaber." - I'm like, "Oh, I made this suite around here." - 'Cause we don't know, let's give you a clue of what I'm into. - Oh yeah, that's his. - You really are. I'm hitting all your boxes right now. Oh my god, look at that. - Yeah, that's fully, oh wow. - Wow. - Damn. - Is that, oh my god. - Yeah, that's his partner. - I feel like when you say that, no, I imagine like, that I'm fighting with lightsaber, but it's just like a power bank. - I like that, but I don't like that. - Just running through under the power bank as well. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Oh, he will hold on, hold on. Can I, can I? - And then we'll rock stack. - Just all of the, all of the Jedi sitting in like the airport next to the wall there with their lightspapers. It's just waiting. You know what I hate about Star Wars is when, sometimes in these franchises, they make the Stormtroopers break character. 'Cause Stormtroopers. - Yeah. - I gotta go to the other guy. - Yes, sometimes you find in the Mandalorian and whoever you'll find them chilling like, yeah, that kind of sucks. - You're not wrong, I hate that. 'Cause they have like, now they've given them like random, you know what I don't like about it. - Yes. - This is why we're friends. I think the thing I don't like about it is, the Stormtroopers were meant to be like, when I first watched it, it was like these mindless drones that just like moved through. But now when they're like people having conversations and personality, now I'm like, oh no, then I'm like, so you're bad guys now. Before I just felt like they were the forces army. - Yes, yes. - Now I feel like they're like assholes doing a thing with a personality thing. - That's what I mean. And sometimes the fact that the helmet can come off, I'm like, it wasn't supposed to be a helmet. You look like one giant unit. I like this. - That's how I feel about the minions. - The minions? - The minions, like, they're very good, wanna do the body. Those things. - Yeah, well, they began as like the background, like the comic relief and all. They have their own movie, and they're back. - And you don't like this? - No, I like that. - I like the whole chapel that Charlie Chaplin asked. I like when, with the humorous character that can just come in, come out. And that's it, right? - Just pop in. Don't hate them in the room. - Don't hate them in the room. - Just pop in. - Yeah, pop in. - Yeah, pop in. - Yeah, pop in. - Yeah, pop in. - Yeah, pop out. - So you're not a big fan of spin-offs? - No. - No. Although you know what that might mean. And I overhear you talking about your algorithm. - Yeah. - And what it means to, you know what I've been getting? I've been getting like Disney Land and Universal Parks. Like somehow it got wind that I could be varying to that. And now it's absolutely all over my feet. - Just like Disney World, Disney Land. - Yeah. - But, but, but, but, but, like, I know just like character actors. And, and all the, like, behind their scenes coming into the parks. Like, I, what they feel like you're a fan of like coming into the park? - What, what, so here's the thing. - Is that like a genre? Like a sp, cause I've never seen a video of the behind the scenes. What do they know about you that we don'ts? - Well, I think they picked up that, like, I mean, I grew up literally in this together. So my mom and dad were, they were set insiders and builders and all ways. - Yeah, yeah. And, um, where, where was this? - It was in Vermont and it works for a professional opera company as well. I was local, um, theater. - Yeah. - And, but again, because it was in Melbourne, Vermont, which is a college like, like, highly regarded college town. - Yeah. - It was local theater, but it was like-- - On a grand scale. - Yeah. - Okay. - I mean, I mean, legit. So there went all out. The costumes are amazing. The set design was amazing. - Yeah. - And then, and then you were kid growing up in this environment. Like, were you, like, running around the theater backstage? - Yeah. I was a kid on the blanket in the coil with a pizza. Like, but I would, but I think I would help them out and help them, um, because it was not only effects. It was, um, what, what sets and effects and whatever they need to fog, okay. - Oh. - Okay. - There's always too much fog or too little fog. There's never enough fog. Have you noticed this? - Yeah. - On a stage. - But I know what the fog goes up to your knees. - There's never fog. - Yeah, but there's never, there's never enough fog. And there's always too much fog. - Angle covering fog. - Oh, I heard it. - Is it enough fog? - Yeah. - Near covering fog. Sleepy Harlow. - No. - Yeah. But there's never, I've never seen correct fog. Sometimes there's, like, so much fog and haze. You can't see the audience. The audience can't see you. - That's my fog. - And then sometimes there's no fog. There's just, like, it just seems like there's, like, a small mess, smoking on the floor. And you can see the audience look off to you sometimes, like, who's smoking here? And you want to be like, no, it's a fog machine that's not, it's a smoke machine that's not doing its job. - Okay. How much fog is it now, fog? Travis, go ahead. - Wait, it's like, it's just, look, look enough, look enough to give a humbier. - Yeah, that's it. - It's about the humbier. - Yeah. It's got to, it's got to refract the light. - Wait, so should that. - But not, not dial the light. - Exactly. - So should the fog come out when the person is there, or before the person comes out, should the person come out to the fog, the performer, should they walk into foggy? - Okay, with fog, usually, like, it's there for a reason, it should be at least. - Yeah, should be there. - That's the whole point. A lot of people, I think, if it were, like, amateur, or, I think, like, fog, there's, like, people would treat fog like, like, you know, to create a feeling, but, but, it's, no. - It's excessive. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Fogs should never be the environment, fogs, really, just, you know, play a role. - Yes. - In the environment. - Yeah, you want to become the environment. - Yeah, you want to feel, you know what it is, it's like, when the fog is right, when the smoke machine's been used correctly, you don't even realize that it was there. So if someone asked you to re-describe the scene, you wouldn't, I don't think that's the first thing you would bring up. But to your point, when it's, like, amateur hour, you'll go, like, it was really foggy, and then it's like, no, then it was too much. It's just got to give you that feeling of, like, you know, something. - Yes. - Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, I know that there was an opera that my mom and dad worked on, there were, I forget the opera. And it might come to me, or it might come to you guys. - I know how much you know, but opera. - I mean, us, I mean, we are old, old pens, but we don't like to brag, but many have called us the phantoms of opera knowledge. - And it doesn't go well, we'd be covering Ms. Reble, and then I believe it, I thought it came salt. - Well, not too much fog, so I was like, "Okay, too much fog, too much fog, you were foggy as hell." And then my dad worked on one with a scene of witches around the cauldron, and the cauldron was supposed to blow up smoke up. That cauldron was almost the death of him, because it had to roll out, so it couldn't be attached. - Yes. - To a smoke machine. - But to your point, it like, I think it was like the first time he did it, it just, like, they put way too much, the state had put way too much ice in it, dry ice. - The dry ice, yeah. - It just created this curtain of, again, they're singing opera, the professional opera, so they couldn't, it was just, they were breathing, they were breathing, yeah. - No, no, no. which is blue as an effect. - It's a cold drink. (laughing) - So it turned to run it back to our floor. - I feel like that was the most realistic show someone watched 'cause I don't like it sometimes when the characters doing something don't react like humans. So if I was watching an opera, where witches were gathered around a cauldron, they start making something which bubbles up. - Not just something. - No, but it's not, is it, which is brutal? - It is always. - Oh, I didn't know. - They don't make up moochers. I didn't know. I thought maybe like one. - So which is brutal a reason. - No, it doesn't make, which is brutal. - Wizards. - So witches make witches brutal. - Okay. - That's all they make, they don't make fermented malt. - You tell them everything that's in that pot. - They make witches brutal. - Everything in that pot. - Yeah, huh. - Okay, I didn't know this. - And you can't, you can't take it out without a cackel. 'Cause you can't, you can't just put the wishes in a vista. (laughing) - Ah, that's part of the-- - Oh, you know, I've never seen a brew put in an actual cellar, so I've seen it like, don't they stir it up and then like in a cellus, it invokes malice. - Uh-huh. - So it's when someone is getting poisoned. - Who is this guy? - But when it's in a vial. - Oh, then it exposes the potency of the brew. 'Cause you must get the reveal that green liquid. - But, yes, because that's the only time you ever see what's inside the witch's brew is inside the little vial. In your head, you're thinking all of that cauldron for this little vial, it is worth it. - Yes. - The calamity that will ensue after our main character consumes-- (laughing) - It's what makes it worth it. - It really is. - Kombucha. - Yeah, I mean, that's, that's all. (laughing) - This is amazing. - This must have been amazing for you as a kid though being in that environment. 'Cause as kids, you want to stay in a world that's as imaginary for as long as possible. - Yeah. - And now you're in that world with your parents, where it's like, what were you like as a kid? Were you? - I, I, you're right, that I, because I was in that environment. I held on to that child like, I wanted to say wonder, but no, delusion, telling delusion from a lot longer than, I thought, you know, and maybe that's kind of what led to entertainment industry was, I mean, I, it was a double sword because I grew up thinking much more was possible in this life for me than reality. I didn't, you know, I got this kind of, very obtuse version of the, the world. - You know, they waited what way? - Well, I think that mainly, I think I thought that a lot of element to life were much more dramatically poetic than they were. I, I, in good ways and bad ways. I learned much about the world from these shows that my mom and dad would do. I remember that one time, they looked on, they were so Chicago. And I, well, up to my mom asking what the word murder meant. And she, well, I told me that that always, well, a person would kill another person. But, but then because my head was so in line with, main culture essence and I got immediately, I understood that, oh, we live in a world where people are just correct doing that. They, they kill other people for no reason. - Right. - And it was sort of, and he's, he's where I got weird. It was, instead, normally I would maybe be freaked out, but I don't want to leave the house, but I sort of, it didn't scare me as much as I thought I would. And I kind of went around sort of embracing this ominous vibe of the world's, and well, and that's why, well, - The idea that people murdered people, you, you were like, it made the world more interesting. - Yeah. Yeah, it didn't work, but because it just, like it played into this, oh, there are, there are really, I've been, it's all, okay, okay. It turned it into like a play now. It made it more interesting, it made it. - And I think that exactly, and if it were the play, that means everything had a purpose, everything had a reason and a story of it. - Yeah, yeah. So, you know, the one thing that I had to learn was that the world had nuance, you know? - Whistle, whistled dealing with that today. - It was, it was, and the background sometimes does come out in the end, yeah. It did evoke this kind of fearlessness that it did have, that everything would work out. And that's why called a bit of a delusion was, that it, I don't know, it, I kind of thought that one thing just got so bad, someone was breaking the song in dance and everything was just, I know what you mean. - You know, and the background would go away. And, and get, it just, everything would happen on paper, exactly as it was meant to happen, you know? - So then, how does that journey take you into standup? 'Cause you're in theater, oh, I'm assuming this, did you go, did you go from theater to theater? Did you? - Well, so I, like, I, I gave up on theater. I wanted to kind of naturally be an actor. - Yeah. - But I gave up on that because I have cerebral palsy. And, and the, that was, I was not, I never, I never thought different, I was just told. I was different, you know, I found out. - And what, at what age do you remember? Like, what part of your life and what age do you remember going, oh, I, I am different because I'm being told I'm different so much. - Well, I remember that, the, the first time I ever kind of heard about this. - Yeah. - I was a little kid five years old. I, I'm in the car at night with my family, my brother, my older brother. Suddenly, just chimed in, like, him all made out, so why is it, why does Tina talk weird? (laughing) - What old was this guy? Did he ever speak belt on you? Was there a century lock-in? (laughing) - Like, like socially random way, only kids, you know? - That's what killed me. - No, you know what, I love, because you're in a car, you're a family, so it's not even like an outsider thing. - Yeah. - But the fact that he says it, not to you, by the way, goes like, you're not dead. - Yo, mum and dad, like he's been holding this in for so long. - What's happened, yeah. - Yo, mum and dad, yo. - Yo, man, okay, I gotta ask now, bruh. And you know this guy, it's not like he just met you. - That's what I'm saying. - You know what, seven years. - Oh, and there was a even talking. (laughing) - Hey, man. - Oh, man. - You know, and you saw that call me up, girl, but then call my mum and dad off, girl. And they just, in the moment, I think they parented and, the silence, and then my dad, he just says, we're not going to talk about this. - Oh, damn. - And then it's it. - Oh, shame. - Yeah. - Yeah. And so, I learned way off about it. Oh, I thought I had learned that, okay, well, A, something's wrong with me. And B, it's a bad thing. It's shameful. Try to make it something that, We cannot say. It cannot be accepted among, but they told me a why or to learn about what was wrong with me, you know, because when you're a kid, I mean, how did cerebral palsy have a brain damage? How do you describe that to a kid, you know? And, um, in hindsight, I'm actually very, uh, very thankful that my mom and dad just, I mean, their approach was just let me be a kid. Because going forward, I learned to separate my disability from me, um, and, um, even though the world does not do that, like, the world just. Yeah. Um, but back then, when I think about, like, being disabled, I really do remember, like, I was a normal kid, and then one day it just kind of landed on me. I'm fascinated here. There's a few things I'm trying to understand. So the one is. I have, like, the most, you know, rudimentary understanding of cerebral palsy, but help us understand when you say, like, brain damage and disability, it's not an acute incident, right? Yeah. Well, with cerebral palsy, um, it can be, uh, caused by a lot of things, but, but more, most likely it's, um, oxygen definition. So for me, I had, like, a hard, hard birth world. Like, um, I, so my mom had a C section for my brother. Again, it's my brother's fault. I had a C section, um, and then when I was in labor, she was in labor with me, with each other. When we were in labor, I, I, I actually, I, I accidentally, um, didn't kill me. I, I punched out, I punched my way out of the old C section. Wait, what? Yes. Um, yeah. Yeah. Instead of, uh, yeah. Here's a true C section minimum. Um, yeah. Um, yeah. And what I punched out of the wound, but I did not part, I didn't, I didn't alien my way out. Like, I, I was in, I was still in her. I was just among other orders. Yeah. That, that's a real thing that can really happen. Damn. I didn't know that that's a concept. Then you, and then what happens? And then, um, and, well, and then, um, because of that, I, I got to pop down oxygen, the, the, the, the imbiltical cord. I don't know what happened. I wrapped around my neck. Yeah. Oh, she got strained, but I was, um, dead for 20 minutes away. Um, and, uh, thank God. So the doctor at the time was at home that my, my mom's main doctor was at his home. Oh, I thought you were saying the doctor was at home. I was like, what world are you growing up in when you're like, I was being born in the doctor was at home. And then they were like, all right, maybe we should call him now. You mean the main, her main doctor. Okay, okay. That makes more sense. For the main, I, I guess, uh, yeah, was at home. He speeds the cop, the cops are literally following him. And he speeds, um, and, uh, thank God. I think, uh, my medicine, but, but, like, I was clinically dead for, for 20 minutes. Yeah. Remember, you can't remember anything because your life conflict before your eyes, because you haven't been born yet. Be very sad. What are you going to, what are you going to, what's the flesh? I was so hard that I had to answer for you. I don't remember shit. I, maybe I do, but, um, I'm not going to tell you for first. That's a, if you want to get, if you want to get the full story, check out Tina's Patreon, she'll be telling you the full story on her Patreon. Uh, if you want to know what happens, uh, life after death before life, before life, then you can check out Tina's Patreon. Tina, I'm $5 and I will tell you what happens to you by the body of the soul. That is insane. Yeah. Yeah. Don't go anyway, because we got more what now after this. Dr. Cams resuscitates you. Yes. Yes. And, but, but after that, so, um, funny thing. We knew, we knew the public oxygen for that long. There's permanent damage in, in the brain. So, um, I, uh, is quite miraculous that I had that all that happened to me for that long. And I came out last affected that I am. Right. It's a miracle. It really is. It is quite amazing that I'm here right now doing this. And yet, you wish I, I wish so much that I could have this conversation with every person that I meet on the street, but I can't. Wait, what do you mean? Because, like, they don't want to pay your Patreon. I know. I, I put the QR code in my face. But, but that's, that's the thing. And, um, I know this, the universal problem, but, um, my, I'm kind of, I mean, not, not to build myself up here, but I'm walking around as a, um, very, um, un, what would the would be against all odds and walking around, um, defy, defy, yes, um, uh, but, but the people that I meet, they, they see my disability and it's a problem for them, you know, it's their problem. It's, uh, it's still kind of the judgment that, that I receive. Um, it's, uh, judgment. I wouldn't have thought judgment. I would have thought pity, but I wouldn't have thought judgment. You know, it depends on how old you are. And the situation. Yes. Yes. Um, I was a kid. It was really interesting. I was a kid. It was very much pity. Yeah. Um, into my young adult life, um, it was a, a sort of judgment, not judging me from being disabled, but, um, particularly here in New York. Yeah. There is judgment, um, and again, depending on the situation, but, but often for, um, being out in the world, uh, and requesting or are you taking a little bit longer? Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Okay. People, you know, I think people are often like to, um, box, you know, put, put me in the box. And that won't, if, you know, if you were effective, then why not just go about your little wife somewhere among hoppers and, and, um, you know, to co-exist anything into, I should go into spaces. Yeah. But I'm not always expected. I think people, they, they don't want to be just mental, but, but they do kind of. Yeah. And, and so, um, I think there, there are a little bit frustrated with this coexistence of it. I, I think I'm guilty of that sometimes. Like, I've, I've realized there's a thing I have to, because it, because I fly a lot, I've realized as a thing I have to do sometimes when disembarking a plane, or even when boarding it. And I had to do this the other day. I had to say, old people are old. They're not doing anything to you. I literally had to say this to myself. Yeah. Because I was frustrated. There was an old couple in front of me, just, like, leaving the plane. And I was behind them. And I was like, like, in my head, I was like, and I had a feeling almost like, why? Why are you doing this, like if you're gonna be old, why not just wait in the plane while everyone else, but then I was like, yo, old people are just old. They're not doing anything to you, they're not, but I do think, I appreciate that you said in New York. I do think, and this is just anecdotal, that it is probably more pervasive in the bigger cities, because one of the things a big city does is it robs you of everything personal, right? So we cross the road, there's a hundred people, but you don't know anyone and nobody knows you, and when you're in a store, it's like, come on, come on, come on, let's just do this thing, listen, and then there's almost like an idea that people sometimes have where they go. If you're in this coffee shop, that means, yeah, but also that means you can get here, that means there's like this incongruency of, if you're able enough to get here, you should be able not to speed this up or get out of my way, or do you know what I mean? There's this thing that happens in New York, and I notice even with cars that get stuck in New York, the difference in, let's say South Africa, I've seen, now that I'm back home more often, is, here you'll never see people pushing the car out of the way. Never, never, never, never, it's just not a concept, a car stuck, everyone will be there behind it. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, yeah, so whatever. Driving around it, trying to, but you will never see people get out there causing me like, all right, let's get this car off the road, we'll help you push. In South Africa, that's still a thing that you'll see. You'll still see people go like, we acknowledge that you do not wish to be stuck. We know it's irritating for us, but you don't wanna be stuck, so we're gonna help you. - And if people behind you have not to do with it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So they won't get affected, come on, if we help. - Yeah, I can, but it's amazing to hear from the person who's going, you know what I mean? Why am I being made the asshole in the situation? - Yeah, it was collective forgetting a day-to-day basis that we're all living lives on top of each other. And somehow I get miraculously making it all happen at once. What we're constantly shifting puzzle pieces. And so when, you know, when there's a stuck car, when there's a government and all person, like, there's ones that's so fine. Few days, these days, the old people are just dying out. - There is, I mean, they are inconveniences. They are kind of, I'm like, I'm good to be too. Almost like, you know, a baby-I-up plane. That's my example. - A grieving baby. - A baby, a screaming baby. - No, no, no, no, for Tina, it's just a baby on a plane. She has beasts with babies on planes. Not if they cry. Tina just sees a baby on a plane and she's like, look at you. You didn't even pay for your ticket, you piece of shit. You're just gonna sit here with those chunky cute thighs looking around, you didn't, I had to pay and you just get to fly on this for free. I try to sit on someone's lap, but they don't let me fly. You dumbass baby and then like, man, please, man, please, like, okay, okay, okay. - I feel like an able-bodied, healthy baby on planes. I'm like, you god damn mother fucker. You, you, you birth canal, bitch. (laughing) - Kim saws porn, not even. (laughing) - Oh, goodness. - You stupid air bringer. (laughing) - Oh, god. - The baby looks at you and goes, "Are you the last air bringer?" (laughing) - Oh, man. - Well, actually, right, like, baby, you just love me. Baby, I'm like, people don't think that, that, like, kids are freaked out by me. No, kids love me. I'm like, I'm like, where the hell am I bigger? You know, they, they, but babies, like, baby, babies don't, don't yet see like a difference. You know who dogs? - Yeah. - Dogs. - Huh? - No. - Dogs. - You're lying. - Dogs double take. - No, you're lying. - Yeah, they, not, not with the voice, but with the way that I walk. - No, you're lying. - Yeah, 100% small dogs in particular. I, I think they'll, they'll be coming behind them and often, like, on, often in New York, especially with their small dogs. - Yeah. - That, uh, city dogs, and maybe a little bit more, like fragile. (laughing) - They, they, they'll, um, if they're coming a moment, I'm coming in another. They will, they will work up and, I, I swear they don't want to, and then they swirve. And they swirve around me till I turn. - That's just the way. - No way. - That's the way, that's the way, that's the way, that's the way. - I swear, I swear. (laughing) And that means so fast. - You never look at the microphone. (laughing) - It went cold, yeah, that's, that one's bright, that's the way. (laughing) - That's the way that I see it, like a disabled dog. Like, like, we would share using dogs. - Yes. - I wonder, like, oh my god, like, I wonder if they are, like, ever, just, like, I wonder what that could be. - What do you think it is? Wait, so, when you're coming opposite directions. - Yeah. - You do the doggo? - Well, again, because-- - And then there's a part where you walk, you behind them. - The way that I walk, you know, I'm unstable. - Yeah. - Which, by the way, like, I didn't know that I walked differently until the age of 25. - No. - Yeah, he's, he's no Hollywood, a roast battle. I, I was in a roast battle. - Was it in the car? (laughs) - I was in a roast battle with a friend of mine, with another comedian. And who's a right-cleaned now, like, were my best friend? I mean, he said something like, oh, you know, just an incredible person. Is there anything she cannot do under the walk in a straight line? I'm like, it got a laugh, and the comics laughed at it. I, you know, it's a roast. - Yeah, but I was calm, because in my head, I thought, like, well, that's, like, that's unconqueristic of him to use this, like, random, like, it was something naive and about me. Like, like, no ways. You didn't think that-- - So we have a friend, he's been on the podcast. His name is Joseph O'Peele. He's from Uganda. He's got a pretty thick accent. And he, we've talked about this, his whole life, because he's the most articulate person, I know. His vocabulary surpasses everyone that I've ever met, right? But he genuinely thought for, like, his whole life, that he, like, sounds like Hugh Grant, when he speaks. And then, like, one day, I forget what we were having in the conversation, and I said to him, similar to this. 'Cause we work at the Daily Show together, and I said to him, I'd go, someone said, I didn't understand you or something like that, and then he said to me, he's like, oh, Trevor, can I ask you a question? He's like, why do you always repeat what I'm saying to people, right? And I said, oh, because they don't hear what you're saying. Then he's like, no, how can they not hear me? - Yeah. - And then he said the craziest thing. He was like, I think oftentimes my command of the English language is even superior to yours. Then I was like, yes, but they can't hear what you're saying 'cause of your accent, and he went, what accent? - What accent? - I said, you're joking, right? And I genuinely, I thought he was like, I thought it was the greatest joke ever, so I laughed, and then he's like, no, no, seriously, what accent? - Yeah. - I said, like, the all of it accent. What do you mean what accent, like, you're gonna, like, a slight, and then he asked people, but he had this realization you're having, he had this also, like a 30-something-y old man, and he said, I'm devastated. He's like, I can't believe it. He was on the podcast somewhere, he's like, even now, he's like, he's still in his head, sounds like Hugh Grant using the Queen's English. - Yeah, and that's the thing. You don't know how heavy it will actually hit until you were the person. You think, like, I'm just, oh my, look, look, it's humorous to everyone else. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But, but in your head, it really, it's a mind-fuck because it kind of is what I can relate, actually, to that, because when I talk, I sound normal. Like, I sound completely clear and hindered quick. I don't know what the science is behind that, but like, hmm, it, that, that's why, I say that it always felt a bit like the game. conspiracy theory that that I was I feel different I didn't sound different but everyone told me that I was and that I need to like articulate more and when you actually do realize that like all the shit like like people are not receiving what I'm pulling out there or what I'm hearing in my head is a bit like when the tree falls in the forest yeah and no one's here it no one can hear it doesn't make a sound and it put me a whole tail span of what I mean I know I'm a person that that has a disability and those two things are completely separate but my god like if if everyone else they're they're just seeing all or one then what does it matter like you know what actually what exists more is it how I appear to the world that cannot change or is it this internal outlook that I have right yeah it really it really became which one not not just which one's more important which one exists yeah so I know that when when I found when my friend said that that joke about like oh she can't walk straight line and at first I was so confused I thought I was stereotyped yeah yeah you thought you thought it wasn't a because a good roast joke is a joke that is actually about you and the person is saying something from a place of knowing a bad roast joke is a joke where somebody just uses a stereotype it's almost like well it's almost like a cheap one because you go like oh you didn't actually have a joke about me so you just made a joke exactly about what could be about me but it's not about me low-hanging fruit yeah yeah that's it yes low-hanging fruit yeah yeah and that's why I was shocked like he he wasn't great comic like I was like why did he do this did you speak to him about it afterwards yeah so after we all pose in a car oh we're back in the car we're back in the car you are not drawing your jeep back in the car I feel like cars what isn't it funny actually I'm just realizing now that everything that I learned about myself and my cerebral palsy I learned in a car yeah try being an utter mess oh my god it's disability it's pain the sequel I can only imagine what no gravity was a factor oh my god yeah I wonder if my brain wins this so I was like yeah what would be like I actually get that one so I get people that ask like yeah well never I've never gotten that one I've never gotten that one but would zero gravity help but I have gotten oh does alcohol help does we help does you know my yeah every drug just create them help even like meditation you be like oh wait did someone really suggest meditation that's a pretty nice that's a pretty gangster one I'm not gonna lie that's a pretty gangster one oh the expected hypnosis I have I have a disability have you tried breathing for ten minutes in silence maybe you should just sit still for a bit and then maybe don't go you know for someone and I'm not even saying they're an asshole it's just a funny thing for somebody to say to you you know what I mean I have a disability hmm so if you repeat what have you have a mantra you should try using a mantra and say that but meditation is what people offer when everything else has been taken so they said have you tried have you tried have you tried no but I get it as well because I see where the person is coming from hmm they might be watching your movements yeah they might be and they're like shame this person just needs to learn to be calm how to sit still and feel their body and then they will emerge from this I can see somebody yeah thinking that because here's the thing that we also take for granted in life right is and I don't want us to forget the car part by the way with the friend but here's the thing we forget in life is we as a society are also not taught things right so we're not taught about disabilities we're not taught about cerebral palsy we're not we're not taught most things so you go there's a person in a wheelchair there's a person who walks differently to you there's a person who speaks differently to you but because you do not know anything about it yeah that's all it is so you then have to use your dumb brain because you have no information to try and quote unquote help the situation because you're like what I don't know what this is so you would suggest meditation because no school has ever taught you about I don't know anyone in school who learned about disabilities genuinely you know I'm sure there's like one or two no I didn't I don't think you did I don't think you like in school are we actually learning what that no but I can tell you about different rivers tributaries uh-uh perennial and non perennial rivers cumulonimbus strata's that's loud I mean that's how our roles are but that has never served me in the world not once have I been in a coffee shop with a cloud it is having a tough day and then I've gone hold on hold on my friends I uh know a few things about strata's wait let me let me ask you this a number of strata's sorry I thought that was only your word to you let me ask you this have you tried meditation like I said I'm like oh you work without oxygen for 20 minutes I breathe it yeah just get it back just get it back it's never too late is it into the time partly that's what started this whole thing like it's almost like we think my brain is just an undone in four year balloon and I just need to just got to puff it up pop it right into it breathe so wait for you in the car yes um well it's in the car with the carpool of all the Vermont comedians that go back to there because that's like all of that's all of them yeah it is all of them baby I feel like you can fit all the comedians of Vermont in a car give me them that yeah if a guy said I'm took place there the whole industry would be dead in the and tonight in sad news comedy is dead Vermont comedy lost its life today in an unfortunate car accident who we are clowns everywhere yeah so with all of us in the car um we're all laughing and again like I in the moment I did not clock it as a real observation yeah I thought it was a shitty joke yeah and um so I was betting with them and I just said oh well I mean I mean the guy my friend he he said something up mean I bit back and I just said oh well I mean this guy now he is saying rumors that I that I walk differently like I don't walk do I walk differently and the whole car went silent just imagine a car of six comedians just why silent and and he again I get a lot like my parents reacted that they just he just squeaked out he just I thought you knew he felt so terrible again like he's now like my best friend but um it really just he's that sort of constant like I begin to realize that life is just kind of like what life is eight decades of realizing things about yourself that people pick up on in eight minutes you know it really that that's the whole journey and it so it was when you have that age it's no longer kind of you pass a point of like oh my god what does it say about me but but it really I mean don't get me wrong I did have that moment like oh my god but then everything made sense it all made sense The dogs made sense, the, um, and, um, you know, close at that point in my early 20s, I don't wear, um, a lot of instances at bars and clubs, and people were thinking that I was intoxicated with. Oh, yeah. And, um, and even, man, man, you've had enough. I just walked in. No, man, no, no, no, and it would be like, I just walked in. They walked up to me like, absolutely not. Geez. This is equally terrible and funny. Well, I do, it's like, I do kind of work out because they don't want to just say like, I'm disabled. And here's a laundry list of all the, all the bad things that I perks. Okay. Like, like, one time I was in London, I walked into, um, the holy arms, which is like, Amy Winehouse's old heart. Yeah. Um, legendary. And, um, there were bounces outside. They stopped me. They, they thought I was drunk. I began to say it. They realized, and, and suddenly they, it was all cleared off. They were like, oh my gosh. You know, they opened the doors, the double doors. I mean, and, um, and there was this like long, uh, I mean, it was peak time. There were just layers of people trying to get a drink. And, and I was just kind of looking around. I looked back at the bartender who was staring at me, called me back over. And, and once I got back to me, part of the series straight up to the bar with me, it was just stopped at his fingers. The bartender put it down the drink. She's actively making and goes over and, and the bounces get her drink. She's lovely. She's just lovely. Uh, I, I think there, there is, uh, of all the, of all the harmful things that happened to me, um, being disabled. I, like, like, I'm so glad that I'm not forgettable. Like, I'm Tina. I just, that, that would be the worst, you know, I, I often talk so much in interviews and, and I'm stage about all the, the weight of having to, you know, constantly, um, uh, alleviate people who's discomfort about me. Yeah. Yeah. But my, like, like, I, I'm so, I feel unbelievably seen, by the way, for better and worse. What's funny is that they were having a conversation, um, and then we were saying, if you listen to every critic in your life, you'd probably want to bury yourself and never come out again. And sometimes people do that. They go away for a little bit, you know, but while you are where you go, those people still exist, I still exist. And I've just given them what they wanted. Then you come back and then you have a, a new lease on life and there, there are a few moments in life where you have this kind of a realization. We headed when we were watching the alcohol and documentary. Yeah. And afterwards there was this announcement that was done and I said to Trevor, that announcement that was made sounds the way alcohol can always announces themselves when he's about to make a statement. You can't ignore him. Let me tell you something, brother. Then you pay attention and you can never forget that. Like a lot of people live in this quiet squeaky voice without expressing themselves properly. And when they see someone who lives loudly like you do, or like a Hulk Hogan does or like the president of this country does, we get taken aback because when so not used to people just going, I'm here and I'm just going to do it and say what I want. Well, and get in to get back to what you were talking about a minute ago that kind of why people they judge a, a, a little bit disgruntled at me and yeah, it's, the inconvenience way is also this, like, I get this often online that, that like, oh man, well, I have this speech impairment. I'm disabled. Why the hell am I a comedian? Like, why, why take, why take up that space? Like, that's what people ask you. Yeah, I don't believe that. No, but I, okay, I forget that I'm a comedian. There's not a genuine, I forget that I'm a comedian. It's almost like, like, how self-serving of you to, to sort of, um, to accept, to come, what, and I think the worst take that I have or the most extreme take is, well, you know that we have to accept you if you're a comedian. It's so, it's so like, why, why you, how self-serving to, to do this? And, um, can I tell you something interesting about that though? We experienced that in South Africa when comedy was burgeoning, there were many comedians who would say black comedians are only getting aloft because they're black. Like, there was literally a thing where they were just like, oh, yeah, it's because they, they come here and they, they talk about their tough upbringing and growing up in a township and then people have to laugh because what are you going to do? And we're like, no, but it's, these are funny things. But it's, it's interesting how you can just, you can sort of like find the same people who will apply it to every non-defaults and just be like, oh, well, you, you come in here because that's why I say I take for granted that I am a comedian. When I first saw your comedy, like my friend Ryan put me onto it and the thing we were just looking at was the gags, like genuinely, genuinely, genuinely, it's like, you know, like with comedy, there's, there's two different ways you watch comedy as a comedian. There's one part where sometimes you're just like watching and observing and then there's sometimes where you're like watching somebody with like a, what I would call like a complimentary jealousy where you're just like, man, the way this person is slicing apart their experience of the world regardless of where, where it comes from. So it could be a straight white man who's telling you about like how boring and tough his life is in that. And you're going, this is, the way you're doing this is amazing. It could be somebody's a refugee, somebody, a housewife, somebody who's, it doesn't matter. That, that was the main thing that I saw where I was just like, I was like, she, this is ridiculously funny because it felt like you were fully observing how you were observed and how people were thinking about you and not thinking about you. Do you get them saying? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I think when you're in that, in that instance, you are so hyper aware of how people are observing you and the fact of the matter is there are people in this world. If you're not minority, there are people that it does not matter what you do. No, no, no, no, no, no. Anything, what you say, how good a person like they will, they will see it as, you know, and a front almost. Yes, yes, almost like it conspiracy. Yeah, like, um, oh, this doesn't belong. This doesn't, this shouldn't exist out here. But again, what I, I always use this example. I like of art, you know, paintings, I wish I could remember the name of the artist, but there was an artist that would cover a whole canvas, one, one color, one red, say all, all by, just a paintbrush and that was the master of uprising of, of anger, like, why is this art? This is not art, even though, um, for what? The ability to, so, so even we cover canvas with just a brush is like incredible. But aside from that, there was such a anger that like, oh, this is not art, that then there became this second window of, oh, well, it evokes an emotion, so therefore, it is art. Yeah. It does that matter if it runs. where it's angering people. And that is doing something. - Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that's, I think how comedy it is. I feel like you can see a lot in the whole comedy industry of no matter what you do, just get a reaction. Just any kind of reaction is a good outcome other policy will just kind of be out there. And you know, being like, I always so much I don't get a visual angry reaction. And then like-- - But nothing. - Okay, that's cool. - Yeah, but this is what I come back to is I've seen this present itself for every type of comedy and every comedian, regardless of their background. People just find the thing that they don't want. But what's more important for me and why I've always loved standup. You know, and Eugene and I have talked about this for years. I mean, we met through standup now. It's like 20 years ago, it's insane. (laughing) I am a 19-year-old man, Finaum. (laughing) But like-- - I wasn't doing that 20 years ago. - Yeah, when you look at, one thing I've always loved about comedy is it's honest. And what I mean by that is, you know, we had SD from the comedy seller on the podcast and we were talking about this, it's, you can fool like maybe one audience and then maybe one audience can feel bad for you and then maybe one, you can't do it with everyone. You can't do it nationwide, you can't do it internationally, you can't, at some point, all that's happening is people are coming to watch the show because you're funny and smart in processing the world in some way shape or form. You know, not smart, just like you know things, but every funny comedian I think is smart in the way that they're dissecting words, sentences, ideas, et cetera, and making an audience have an involuntary response coming out of their bodies. And that, I think that's my favorite thing about comedy is, it doesn't have a studio on the other side blocking you, it doesn't have like, they aren't like king makers, there's no, you know what people refer to as like industry plants or whatever, whether you believe it or not. Comedy just doesn't-- - It's honest. - Do that, you know? Even audiences, I judge them sometimes, they'll be like, why did that comedian, they were never funny, then I'm like, no, no, no. You people were laughing at them when you were, don't try disown them now, they were of your time. Don't now disown them. - And that time was 10 minutes. - It doesn't matter, but people love acting like, you know, sometimes people play a clip of an old comedian even from the 80s, they'll be like, I can't believe, people who were, then you're like, no, we were as society. - Then, yeah. - Yeah. I know you may not like it now, maybe it's out of fashion, but there is no comedian who can blow up apart from society. - Yeah. - It's just not a thing. - Yeah. - It's a, you can't, you just can't. - And that's why whenever I get these comments online, I'm like, a viral video of mine, and there'll be a comment like, like, man, the pity laughs. (laughing) - Do you know how hard it is to pity love? - These are people, can I tell you something, these are also people who don't actually go, that's one of the things I hate about the internet. And I hope you don't live in the comments, I stopped there long ago, Tina. It's just like, when you don't go to comedy, you don't understand how honest a room is. You wanna talk about pity laughs. I've seen some of the most famous people get on stage, movie stars, musicians, even comedians get on, audience, first three minutes. Yeah, they say anything. Yeah, and then at some point, the audience is like, all right, we've run out of the pity ones. - Yeah, we, the free ones are gone. We can't give you the fame laughs anymore. We can't give you the pity laughs anymore, we can't. And then you just, the audience just goes like, all right, we're done. A room is really, really honest. You know why? Because the room is dark and there's anonymity. So no one in the crowd feels personally responsible for a laugh happening or not happening. And there's also safety because people come, come with other people. Yeah, safety of companionship. You can refer to the other person and go, I'm not crazy, man. - Yeah, the pity, you know what I wish you could do? Oh man, this would be such a great gag for those people. I wish you could do an impression, like change your voice and then sound like you don't have cerebral palsy, just for a moment, just for those people. It would break. - Oh my God. - It would explode their brains. - So you're my friend. - That's what I'm thinking. - I have a joke like that. Well, it really happened that was a woman who came up to me one time and said that she loved it. But for her first 15 minutes, she thought I was thinking it. And like, in the joke, I say, can you believe that I work so hard on this character? Like, I hate you. - That's a good one. I wish so much, but I could somehow say it in a normal voice. - Can I tell you, it would be South African comedian, friend of ours, Read Musa, he had a joke like this. So he is from Cape Town, in South Africa. So he has a particular accent and he's got like quite a thick one as well, right? But he's also a master of mimicry. Can just do any voice. You know, Morgan Freeman, you name it. He just, he nails them all. But it's jarring for people, especially who aren't from South Africa to hear him, because he have an accent that's quite, like you know what I mean? Like his accents. And so we're in Montreal doing shows. And when he was on one of the lineups and he came out and he did like flawless, flawless accents. And then after one of the comedians came up to him and they were like, "Hey man." You are, he's like, you can sound like anyone you want and he's like, "Yeah, I know, thank you very much." And then he's like, "Yeah, why don't you just talk "like that all the time, then?" (laughing) At that point. (laughing) And I was just like, "Oh yeah." You know what I mean? Read tells that story on stage, but it's so funny because you go, "Wait, what?" Person's like, "Yeah, why don't you just, "if you are a man?" - Whatever might be a Maria Bampard. So Maria Bampard is this unbelievable comedian. And she talks, a lot of her comment is about her struggles with mental health and she, but so often pull out, she's got a very particular way of speaking was very, very doubtful and just almost like you're hearing the inside of her voice. Just, and it really mimics this kind of chaotic anxiety and disalignment that she has with the outside world. But then she perfectly mimics a normal, or like suburban white woman. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And so, she's got dialogues back and forth with this normal sounding woman. And then I heard it, and yeah, and it's so incredible. It's so just believable. I actually, where I first found her, I just thought that I thought, like, "I wonder if she ever just had that voice to kind of mad." - Yeah, you can just, like, live marching the whole way. - Yeah, it's unbelievable, but I mean, honestly, if I could, even if I had the ability to talk normal, I kind of wonder, I think I'd be a bit of a bitch. - I think, I think, I'm just turning to something. I end up despising. I would become the monster, and I'd just be talking off. I know, 'cause I think we'll find this newfound power. And I would just speak to more managers. (laughter) - I need to be humble. (laughter) I think that I saw a guy do this. (laughter) - Absolutely, no. - Oh, man. - Oh, my God. - Oh, wow, God. - Can I ask you a question? One of the things that's always amazed me about your comedy is your timing. And I've always wondered how much of your timing plays into the idea of what we think cerebral palsy may or may not be, and how you are. or actually experiencing it. 'Cause like your body is not fully in your control, but you've learned how to live in yourself or so. But I wanna know how you work out the timing. That's 'cause comedy's old, the timing. Yeah, how do you do that? - Well, thank God for commenting, because the timing is one thing that I can control. I learned that the power does come in the process and a bit like singing when I speak very slowly. And comedy's one of the very few instances where that can be used as an event. - Oh, I love that, it's okay. - And I mean, that's why I can, even before stand up, I would use that to my advantage of sort of devouring the sentence I was saying right at the end, almost just to make sure people weren't listening to me and I was zoning out. I don't know, 'cause I could talk to you about my timing and comedy all the time. Like, I don't know, it's been one of those things I've always had it. And I mean, I used comedy as a kid as a language, quite literally to show other people kids and adults that I was cognitively all here. - It's amazing that that is like one of the measures that we have, right? - Yeah. - No, really, it's truly amazing how-- - Cuba? - Yeah, as soon as somebody does that, you go, oh shit, I've seen that happen to some people who don't speak a language well. Oftentimes, I'll see it in English, obviously. Someone who doesn't speak English well. And you can see people around them treat them like they aren't intelligent. And then when they just drop one joke or one, you see the people go like, oh, you're here. Oh, you're fully here. There's even a person who's like bedridden or listen, an old person, literally on their deathbed type thing. And everyone's talking about them in the third person. Let them drop a joke. And everyone's like, "Grandpa, stop it with us!" Sorry, Grandpa, we thought you were, it's amazing how that happens, actually. - Exactly. I like the way that you put that. Like, it brings a third person back to, oh shit. Oh, you're here, you're like, you're high. (laughing) Yeah, you know, it really just is a bit of a life hack. You know, just bit, and especially now, 32 years into my life, I know so much more about how you're going to react to my cerebral palsy than you do. So it's like, I, like, I can see, I can almost see what a bit like the algorithm. I can see where your mind's about to go. - Oh, okay. - Yeah. - That really helps, like, in terms of being on stage. - Timing, and well, funny, but esti, at the Carnival Seller, because one story that I have from my time there was, I was doing the seller, she was in the back of the room watching. So obviously, pressure is high. And then I'm about to go up on stage. The host leaves into me and says, "Oh, Tina, hang on, Dave Chappelle just walked in, and he'll go up there and do 20 minutes, but only 20 minutes he has to run after him." So you'll go up after him. And, you know, I kind of, I've seen this play out before, that, like, a big name goes up there, crushes it. And then some guy gets up after it, and like-- - It's such a painful position to be in. - Just, like, Pearl, they're, like, jokes about, they don't, but the whole movement is just, like, electrified, and, like, you know, and they bomb. But I was, all this happening all the while, I have to do, the booker is watching. I think, "Oh, this is how it ends." (laughing) Oh my God. So I think, okay, well, I think the most of the only possible thing that I can do is listen to what Chappelle is saying on stage, and then come up with a clawback joke. And then I can get up there, and some of us say that, and then they can write that on my epitaph. (laughing) And so he, he's about to, he's, he's incredible. Brings his own piano player, and it's just commenting on the world, and it is so profound. And then, but I can say this, because he actually do also say this in his, his special after. But about 10 minutes in, he, he just says, you know, I know I get a lot of, I get a lot of heat for a lot of kinds of jokes that I make about minorities. So tonight, I'm only doing handicapped jokes. I bet there is one handicapped person in this room right now, just probably in the back, that's where they keep them. Probably just sitting there like, boom, and the whole room like, wow, often, and he's like, oh, probably not, too many stairs to get down here. She's a stage. (laughing) And every comic wound up in the back just looked at me, just, and I, I thought, they were horrified. But I was just like, all praise to the handicapped God. Yeah. (laughing) He asked, like, God has smiled at me. I was like, I was like, I want to do it. It's about giving me the best possible thing he could ever give me, which really was, I know how I bought it. I could get up there and not say a thing, just, and again, timing, like in the moment, the timing just came up. I knew exactly, I knew exactly, I can see it before it happens. It's a bit like, footing the ball. Like, I got up there, I'm just, you know, and I just fell, like he got a stave. (laughing) Just, not enough fucking stairs. (laughing) And the whole room just, like, erupts. And, yeah, it's just, I mean, I mean, and that's all it is just, like, to be the walking personification, I would say. Yeah, I mean, that's the, those are the, as you say, it's like the greatest gifts you will ever receive in comedy in those, those are the moments where you're just like, oh, there's a higher power looking out for me and they're a fan of my shows, and yeah. - Well, and also the way the comedy works, it really, it works a lot, like, music. It really is that, that, like, you know, comedy that might be a little bit more positive, like, somehow, he can, he can, you know, that it is a very particular kind of laughter, when you're laughing at something you should not be laughing at. It's just almost like minor chord, but it's so good. - It is. - And it's like, and you talk about it in the living room, the dark room. - Yeah. - And it all collects away just having the, there's devious moment, and it's so good. And then, you know, I can see just the timing of, that, I mean, I come in and I almost resolve this situation. - And it just, it layers on just, a whole nother level of humor to it. It kind of was the perfect moment. And yeah, I go back to F.D. the book and she, I'm just like crying. I'm like, I can't believe it worked. And she did not, we were not aware of the plate that I made in my own head about it. She just said, oh, isn't it so fun to follow a really big comedian? I was like, yeah. I mean, that's what I love comedy. Just, do you feel, do you feel most normal in comedy, like of all the things in the world? I wonder where you feel. The least like you are not part of a club. And the most like your part of the club. Oh my god. Sorry. No, I don't. I mean, yes. I just stop on you. But yes, I mean, I feel more comfortable talking to 250 people than I do talking to two people. Well, thanks. You'd have to say two people. There's only two people here. Tina, you just, you could have said like a metaphorical number like one or five. You didn't have to say, I feel more comfortable talking to 250 people than you two losers. Then I feel way more comfortable talking to two people than two South Africans. I feel way more comfortable. I'm not comfortable. I'm more comfortable because even after an hour pointing, I'm so, I don't know about you guys. But I mean, I'm like, I just, I think there is this like level of control that you have when you're on the stage of, it's the most you'll ever be able to control how you proceed. Oh, yeah. And that is huge. Also, a lot of the comedy, you know, as much as I absolutely adore touring and performing for my fans, I love going to the comedy summer and performing for people that have no idea what it is the best. It really like because fresh meat, you know, you've lived around student campuses for too long. And there's no perceived notion of mean and for better and for worse. I know that I saw earlier that I wish I could just, every person that I meet, I wish I could just have this whole conversation with that, the context of it. But that's all that my comedy is. I'm not, I'm not kidding about it. All I'm doing is just saying what I wish it would be okay to say in real life on the street across the heart of the heart, you know. Yeah, I mean, the state of comedy, it's miraculous that I've gotten to it because it kind of found me like it. It finds all of us. That's what it does. I feel like there's a cop out things. No, no, no, it does, but it finds all of us. The one thing I'll say to you is I hope this proves to be true is don't take for granted the moment that you're in because there's a weird thing that happens with comedy where like at some point as Tina everyone, that's what I'm saying. I hope it does come to be true. Everyone will have heard you and everyone will know you and everyone. And I genuinely know for effect. There'll be a part of you that goes like, damn, I wish you guys hadn't heard of me because now do you know what I mean? It's this weird dichotomy that we have in comedy where as a comedian, you'll spend your whole career wishing everyone knows you and then you'll spend the remainder of it wishing nobody knew you because because the surprise that you possess and the ability that you have to completely construct an artificial idea of you on any given night is a superpower that nobody appreciates until they don't have it. And then and then you hit it and then immediately you walk on stage and then people go, ah, okay, it's Dave Chappelle, Ergo, he has to do this or not do this or there's a preconceived notion. It's like, ah, they're this person is they they have to do it. You know what I mean? It's it's this weird, you know, it's like you want to wish to get to the top of the mountain. But on the other side, you only can go down. Not down is in bad, but it's like you can't go up from the up. It it becomes a different journey now. Yeah. Yeah. You can't exceed expectations. Yes. That's that's a perfect way to put it. Yeah. Louis, Louis C. K. said it to me in the most beautiful way one day who's talking to me right before I started the daily show and he said, um, at the comedy seller, he said, don't take for granted. He said, what do you say? He said, enjoy the moments that you are not known because you can only be not known for certain amount of time. And he says, and when that goes away, you're just known. I was like, well, this is a weird thing. What do you tell? It's just like a random thing. Someone's telling you some some advice really doesn't land until you've experienced it. Yeah. But from a performance point of view, I got it. Even if you're a musician, think about it. You know, it's that it's that old adage they say for musicians. You have your whole life to write your first album. And we get the album and we go, what amazing music. Who are you? Yeah. Wow. This is so beautiful. Then the second album comes out and we like, okay. It's not look, my your first album is still my favorite. But this is great. And the third album is like, Oh, are you still singing about heartbreak? Oh my god. Or fought out. You don't sing about heartbreak anymore. You know, their voice is a little and like what that thing they do. It's amazing how quickly you can go from being a breath of fresh air to just being bad breath. So I hope you just hold this moment for yourself for as long as it will be because it won't be at some point. And then you'll look back and go, damn, you know, you'll turn to someone be like, did I? And they're like, Oh, I know everything about you, Tina. I love your vibe. I love your vibe. You're not throwing me off at all, Tina. And then you're like, damn, even the dogs on the street like, you know, what's up, Tina? Tina. Come to me though, just to hump him away. Don't press anything. We've got more. What now? After this. You are arguably the most incredibly lucky person ever, lucky as person I've ever met because what could have ended your life, set you on a course, brought you into a world with parents who played for a living, who took you to go play with them for a living, and you met people who play for a living in the theater, then you went and played for a living. So everything that has happened to you, that is monumental, that is sort of a discovery of what the disability brought out of you. Because I don't think you are the disability. It just brings out stuff out of you, was your seven-year-old brother and obviously the car ride going home when you made the realization after the roast. And after that, it was smooth sailing for you because those two truths were enough, and they were fact, but the fact that the doctor was able to get to the hospital on time, resuscitate you, and your parents had you for the rest of their lives trying to shelter you from not losing yourself, is a gift that you can give to everyone else when you, when you live loudly and get on stage, and that's incredible. Thank you. I mean, that's, people, you know, I get painted inspiration a lot. And, you know, I have a very complicated relationship without inspiration. I think, I'm sure that you both get that, too. It is, it doesn't land in the way that I think people want, express it to land in you because, like, you know, oftentimes, like, if I'm doing this, I don't call it talking to a fan, they'll ask, kind of, what, why are you doing this? What's the goal? How are you looking to get to imprint on everyone? And now I kind of have developed this media-trained answer, I think that even though disability is only relatively a certain section, I think that I need for acceptance, is universal. There's a media-trained answer. In reality, I don't have a goal, like I, you know, I talk about myself in that I'm living in the bonus round, you know, because I, it was game over, and then- From the onset? Yes, then the doctor put a few quarters of it in, and I do want to talk about this, well I think that, like, I'm not free playing, and like, I'm on board with a lot, nothing matters. And I mean, just like a lot of my jokes is a joke, but I'm hiding in plain sight, and I really, it's 100% true that in any given moment, I never lose sight of their fact that I'm not really supposed to be here. How many times have I told you? Yeah, Eugene says that all the time, yeah. And how unbelievably disruptive it is that the others have fallen in this direction. And not only that, you know, it sort of led me to this career where I have been impacting so many people. But again, to get back to crying a bit on theater with this kind of delusion of fiction, you know, and well, of course this can happen. And this, no, I think I do owe a lot of work out, too, because so many of my lines along with motor function, I also lost this kind of voice in my head that, like, I need to make expectations or reality, and that almost, I mean, it does feel a little bit like a simulation, a bit, not to get a little bit too meta about it, but I mean, there is this constant voice in my head. Well, yeah, of course, of course it's happening, of course, you know, comedy happening. And I'm sitting with you guys because I'm supposed to be dead. And for some reason that didn't happen, my life feels kind of like a sequel. Damn. I keep telling you this. It's an amazing way to think about it. Let me tell you something. You know, the thing you're saying about not knowing how to, or rather the term you're such an inspiration, not landing at Zuko was on the podcast, and we were chatting about this. And we're joking about it. You're saying, she learned very early on when people are like, you're so brave, that means they don't see you in like a good light. They're like, man, your shit is when they're like, you're such an inspiration. They're like, I do not wish I had your life. That's what people are essentially saying. I would bother. Yeah. That's what people, but there's also, there's also another layer to it that I think we shouldn't take for granted, right? In life, we are living as us, technically for ourselves, you know, I'm not saying you can't live for others and do they, but we are living as us for ourselves. What we take for granted is the fact that we are affecting others around us, whether we want to or not. And so you don't need to choose to be an inspiration, to be one. You just are one. And it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a strange paradigm for people to accept because we sometimes think it comes with a responsibility or an obligation or an idea of how we should be moving through the world. But it's like, no, no, no, no, no, it's, it's not that. And I mean it on every level, not just in the world of like fame and fortune. I think of how many parents were an inspiration to their kid without them knowing genuinely. You know, you'll talk to people who go like, who's your biggest inspiration? They go like, oh man, my mom, she worked three jobs and she'd come home and she'd still make time to love us. And you know, it was so amazing to see how she would. But then when you talk to the mom, the mom was like, ah, she's like, what other option did I have? Well, what do you mean? You can't not love your kids and you can't not work for them and you can't, and they'll be like, yeah, but that inspired us, mom just like inspired, we get out of here with your inspiration. And I was just living the life that I was meant to live and I had to live. But I think both things can be true at the same time. And I don't think we have to take it for granted. It's somebody just observing you from the outside going, what you naturally do or how you are makes me feel a certain way and I appreciate that. And then if you are the person who's receiving that almost just go like, oh, good for you. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, good for you. I'm happy that that is because I often think of it this way is like, I don't know what the opposite, is it a desperation? What is the opposite of inspiration? I don't know what the opposite of that would be. What's the ant in them? Yeah. I mean, I guess, I'm inspired, but I'm going to say it's inspiration. Imagine if somebody walked up to you and they were like, hey, I just want you to know that you were the most uninspiring person I've ever met in my life and we take for granted it. Don't take it selfishly, but if you can inspire anyone, what a cool thing in life, man. You were just doing your own thing and somebody else got the benefit of that. Like, you were the shock just eating something and then there was a fish swimming next to you like, yeah, thank you so much, shock, I wasn't going to get that ever one for you and you're like, what? Shut up. I'm just being me. I was like, yeah, but I live because of you. I think there's a beautiful non-zero sum part of life that exists in that. You just get to be you and because of that, I feel like there's something better and greater. It makes me see more in the world, but just be you. You just continue being you. It's one of the few things that you can achieve without playing any extra effort. Yes. Yeah. It's like being in inspiration and being a crush like those and being a crush, you have nothing to do with any other stuff. It just happens without you. Like Tim, I was like, I didn't do shit like, I just, but, but yeah, yeah, that is, maybe actually that is why it feels so weird to be a content to your face, but it is like being like, I have a crush on you and yeah, you don't know how to respond to that. Yeah. It's like, well, like, keep that to yourself. No, you just, like, this is the, in truth of, in truth of thoughts in my head when you say certain things. I'm so glad you have those. I mean, he is my intrusive thought, so normally, like, do you ever encounter guys who have a crush on you, but because they're fetishizing you in some way? All the time. Yeah. Oh, that is, it really, it began to happen with my company. I never had a, I think stepping into the public, I mean, much more apparent for me, but that's why when I was on the apps, I, I was always struggled when, when in this whole process, do I say that I am disabled because I did learn that I was balancing this precarious world of lots of guys where they were not attracted to me because I'm disabled. And then sub-sacred, of other guys. Yeah. And then there's this guy, a pseudo-scientist. You know, and the tricky thing is um I think, you know, people that make fair shows disability, they don't just, they don't know it, it's not like them fair shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway girls, or something, it really, um, because when you're fair shows, they can do some really, when you're really fair shows, they can use, um, uh, the need for help. Um, that's, that's the, that's the, that's the sublayer, that's the, yeah, the weakness or, um, dependency, dependency, um, and I, yeah, I do often, I get that, it's not, but, but it creeps in, you know, it's, it, it's harder. I'm just sort of, I'm still enjoying, I think I'm just hurting, I mean, I'm single still, so this is like, um, and ongoing. I think a person, you in particular, you'd be, you'd find it difficult to date someone who fetishizes you, or your disability, because you are everything, you're the opposite of what they think you'd be. You're immensely, um, popular, yeah, you are very confident, you're outspoken, you're independent. Well, I know, you're funny enough, I think that's almost why people that might fetish as disability are actually more attracted to me because there is this sort of, um, uh, you know, I, I have, do you guys, uh, we're very open about. The, the feeling that really tickle them, the good way that, that I was, uh, this powerhouse that I was confident and successful and, um, uh, looked upon it, and yet, like, I was. I, I, I actually have had four discussions with, um, an ex-partner of mine who about whether or not fetishizing disability is actually right or wrong. I love those, those exit interviews with an ex, that's when you get to know who you could have been dating, because I'm not being that honest. It didn't make me question a few things, exactly. Like, why are you arguing for this? Um, but, um, it's like an interesting, uh, what's happening? Yeah, exactly. Maybe, maybe they just ain't just spitting. Uh, but I, I think, you know, generally, uh, like, like the debate would be, well, you know, um, yeah, it is easy to say, of course they don't want so many fetishizes my disability. But, but then, I mean, I do, I do want someone who's attracted to me, and that means all of me. Mm-hmm. So, and the disability, I've had a whole other conversation that I love having is disability and attraction and, um, how, how those two things, you know, disability, by logically being, um, something that a human being's perhaps should not be attracted to, um, and how, despite that, we make it happen. Um, and whether, whether that is a conscious effort, uh, based on, um, society, no, or if that really is a biological adaptability, um, but I'm just trying to find a boyfriend, man. Is that too much to ask? I'm just a girl. Well, you know, you know, it's, you know, what's interesting about it is, like what you just said, because we forget that these things exist everywhere in every shape in every form, it's just some sort of more unique than others because of how infrequently they occur. Mm-hmm. So, there's people who fetishize, like, someone will be like, ah, big boobs and the guys in. That's all they fetishize. Big butt, I'm in. And then there's women who fetishize tall guys. Oh, tall, tall. Is that the taller, the better? Oh, he's so tall. Like, and you're like, what, what is it about him? I just, like, he looks like he could just, like, pick me up and, and he kisses me on my forehead and, you know, what? But there's people who fetishize things about other people all the time. They have a, they have a type. Yeah, it's true. They have a type. But because it is not something that we commonly encounter, we then might have a more negative reaction towards it. But we wouldn't the other way. I've met couples who go, oh, yeah, he knows I'm into da da da, that's why I was, that's why I'm with him. He knows I've got a thing for blah, blah, blah, blah. She knows that I happen to be that thing. So he's safe. Yeah, there's those are the person. Yeah, the thing that I fetishize about him is a partner. Yeah, they have, they have it. And so you're like, you're in this world. It's like, I had a, I've had a discussion about friends with this where I go, sometimes I think if we're not careful, the, I mean, I wouldn't want to use the word, like, walk in that way. Because not like, not like the way people use it in like, you know, in political discourse, but more just like, sometimes you can be so woke that you're unwoke. So now you're almost going like, hey, do not purve my friend Tina. She does not deserve that you do not think about taking her to your bedroom. Tina's like, Tina's like, please take me. No, but that's what I mean is like, if you're not careful, you can become so considerate that you're inconsiderate. Yeah, you are so like overly now, now you, you restrict the person from having a full human experience, because you in your infinite niceness, slash considerateness have now been inconsiderate and go, this person cannot have that. Or I must protect them from it. You know, they might even like want to overly protect you. That guy's no good for you. No, no, it's like, yeah, your boyfriend's also not good for you. It's okay. Let's go. Let's go. Let's keep this thing. Well, that is exactly what I'm talking about. That it's so easy to rock off that notion of like, of course I wouldn't want to do a person who fetishizes disability. And yet, the more they think about, I'm like, whoop, but also like, I wouldn't want to be loved despite being disabled. Oh, damn. I want to be loved and disabled. Like, I don't want there to be a pretty honestly large part about me that is tolerative. Yeah, the person looks at you and go, if this wasn't there, this would be perfect. Oh, and not even that sometimes it could be the other thing is not even them saying that it's it's them in a way treating it like it is the one part of you that sort of shouldn't be there, but they're they're in that you're going to mean so not even tolerating you or not even thinking about you should be perfect. It's almost like pity and love. Pity and love don't miss. You don't ever want to be pity didn't love just want someone to love you. Yeah, so you would rather I think I would rather be fetishized and loved than to be pity and loved unless you're an orphan. Because you know that pity comes with that love in the home in the first place. Like a couple in the bedroom. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I thought you don't want fetishes. It's like damn. Oh, I knew it. Yeah. Oh, my God. So who is your daddy? Who is your daddy? You don't know what your daddy is. Do you? You don't know who your daddy is at all. That's why this works. I mean, I'm loving this. Oh, man, Tina, this has been this has been too much fun. We could do this forever with you. We've got to do this again. I mean, it's a it's a please pity and also a joy that you live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Now, but I'm just out the road. We should definitely we should just hang again. This is like so much fun. Can we? Yeah, of course. No, because just like comedian, but you do not talk about the soul play as you're as you're saying. Yeah, you know, just thinking about something again, crazy thought. A lot of people, I mean, myself included will watch podcast videos, etc. And then I'll in parts of it. I'll play a double speed. Someone's going to play a part of this conversation double speed. - Yeah. - And then your voice is gonna sound different, maybe even more normal, funny enough. - That's a nice thing. I actually fully expect all people with all my podcast to be watching, sped up. - Yeah, but think about how crazy that is. 'Cause then they're gonna go, where are we, wait, wait, wait, let me, let me go, normal speed, and then they're gonna think something broke on the, (laughing) - Yeah. (laughing) - This is like only, you know what we're gonna get comments? Only your guest is in point two five, something is wrong with your video. Please check your video stack, your guest is in point five, and you, what's happening on this video? - You better fire some of these things. (laughing) - Then it's gonna be someone who goes, what's wrong with the subtitle? (laughing) - Oh man, not for real. Just like, just selfishly for me as a comedian. I was just like, when Ryan put me on, 'cause we have similar tastes in comedy, and when he put me on, I was like, this is one of the funniest things I have ever experienced, and it's been a joy watching you, like on your journey, go from like clubs to theaters, to nationwide tours, but as Eugene says, like selfishly for comedy, like vibes, man, you know what I mean? We're always looking for like more vibes, like in comedy, and you know what I mean? - Oh, and I know, I feel like nowadays comedy is more individual, it's more isolated. - Yeah, it is, yeah. - No, it is, it is. - It is social, me there, promotion, touring. - Yeah. - And so like, we were supposed to sit down, we hang with each other less than ever. - Yeah, yeah. - Less than ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. - You look back at the history of the comedy store, the seller and, you know, how much comedy was just, it won't be hell. - Yeah. - It won't be hell. - Yeah. - The sets were extensions of the hang. - They were. - In fact, that's what I feel, you know, that's one of the things that always break my heart's around comedy, was every time I would hear about a comedian who had committed suicide, it was always on the road alone in a hotel room. It was never at home in the city where they lived in. - Or in the club. - No, it was never that. Or on an ensemble show where there was a line up. - It was all right. - It was never that. It was always alone, on tour, in a hotel room. - But it's safe to say our thing doesn't exist in isolation. - No, it doesn't. - Yeah, yeah, no, you have to. And that's what, I always do point to come, every comedian house in a plane joke. They have a hotel room. - Yeah. - And, I mean, it's a sign of like, you're being taken away from the very thing that made you do what you want. - Damn. - So, I, I, I'm gonna get some heat for this thing. - Say it to them. - But like, I cannot wait for this rise of comedy in social media to, to the, again, say more. - I, I think for so many reasons, and I say this as a comedian who, who is her career to social media. - Oh, so you want to pull the ladder up? I see what Tina's saying. Now that I'm in, it's time to shut this shit down. - Yeah. - No more comedy for you losers from the internet. - I was the last one. - We thought there was two other guys. - It's not an arc. - It's under my five. - We've had enough, all those, no way. - Yeah, enough comedians. No, but like, I, you know, for a variety of reasons, I think that, I mean, watching comedy, 60 seconds at a time. When I began to get back into making it, an actual effort to watch, stand up hours on Netflix, who the wherever was. - Yeah. - I realized that, that so many comedians that I follow, and no personally, I had no idea what their, the voice was, what their, what their plot, I had no clue. Well, they're, because I would see crowd work. I would see, just, just, um, viral minutes and, and, and for one, the, the whole, my whole list of top 10 comedians, totally rearranged itself, in a way I didn't expect. And so, with our view, putting my comedy online, it's not like putting your art in a gallery. It's like viewing someone's art from outside the gallery in a parking lot. That's also a parking lot to like a convention center and a stadium and a, and a, and a strip club. Like, all together. - Oh, it's, it's the Herber live convention. (laughing) It's just like, I don't know why, I, it does make it accessible and, and that's good. But I, I think it's great for discovering that you actually like stand up. But, no, I think it's just gone on. - And too often. - So, if, if I may, this is, this is the way I see it. So, I agree with what you're saying. If there was one part of it where I would sort of, you know, deviate from, from how you feel about it, I, I came to realize a while ago, that in every art, in every medium, you have to accept the reality that you have to meet people where they are. And, no medium, no art form, no platform, no space has ever enjoyed seeing itself shift or see itself viewed in a different way or from a different place. I'm sure there was a world where people were really pissed off when people started making prints of art. I'm sure there was a world, people were like, no, you can't make a print of the Mona Lisa. You go and, and I genuinely know that I used to be like one of those people in, in, in many ways. But then I, and I realized one day I went, some people are never gonna see the Mona Lisa. Most people are never gonna see the Mona Lisa. Ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever in person. Ever, ever, ever, ever in person. They just want. I have to suspend, the purity that I have for this, you know, my, my, all and my, and my admiration for this art form and think of the people first, because I've seen comedy go through booms and busts, you know. When I started doing comedy and when I first came to the US, it was sort of like bust phase. Comedians weren't really doing well. Clubs weren't doing that great. And it goes in waves, by the way. It keeps, you know, so your, your wish is gonna come true at some point, but it's weird how it happened. There was a point where like every comedian got a sitcom. You did like a, a tight 10 at Montreal and you had a sitcom. You did a good late night spot and you got a sitcom. That's how it like worked for a while. You, you just got a deal. And then that's, yeah, that died. And then it just died. And then it was like, all right, people are on the road and you're just grinding and you're doing comedy and you're grinding and you're doing comedy. And there were a few outliers who were stars, but people were just like doing comedy, doing comedy, doing comedy. And then comedy started making, you know, it started making waves again. I think around like the Netflix era, it started like doing something again. It became, you sort of saw it in the, in the public domain. It wasn't just comedy fans who consumed comedy. Yeah. And then that, that, just as that wave you thought was dipping down, social media came in in a new way. And I've had this conversation with a bunch of comedians and I genuinely don't say this as somebody who hasn't told the opinion. I say this as somebody who's now changed my opinion. At first I would go, I don't know, this crowd work and these videos, but then I went, those people are way more likely to watch an hour and are way more likely to come to a comedy club than if they never got that 60 second clip. And because I love stand up comedy as a medium and as an art form and as a space, this is, and that's why I hate like fractions, factions and fractures and comedy like, I hate it when comedians even act like they know what the, I'm like, guys, this is the, we must never forget that we were the misfits. We were the misfits. When I see comedians becoming the jocks, I'm like, ah, you forget. How quickly you forget where you came from. And I'm not talking about like punching up or punching down. Forget that. I'm just saying how quickly you forget that you came from not being the mainstream in your life. You were not the popular one. Your views were not popular. Your friends were not popular. Your vibe was not popular. That's how you got- into comedy. And then as comedy has blown up, you have now become the jock, the jock. And I'm like, "Yo, man, don't ever forget why you got into it. Don't forget how it freed you don't forget." And so for the people, I genuinely selfishly for comedy go, there are going to be many moments where, you know, it's like, like my younger brother, 2021, I was loose track. He's 21, 22 maybe. Bailey, he like never watches movies. When he does watch a movie, he watches it on TikTok. And yeah, yeah, like full on, full on, full on, watch it. So I would say, have you watched a rival? And he'd be like, no. I'd be like, "Oh, it's this movie where aliens arrive." And they speak through time and they see time differently. And he's like, "Oh, yeah, no, no, no." And then he'll talk. He's like, "Oh, yeah, I've seen I saw that on TikTok." Then I'm like, "No, no, the movie." And he's like, "Yeah, I saw it on TikTok." Then I'm like, "You saw the trailer?" And he goes, "No, I watched the movie on TikTok." Then I'm like, "My friend, you cannot watch a movie on TikTok." And he's like, "No, you can." And then he showed me how on TikTok, people would take a movie, splice it up into like six minutes or 10 minute chunks. And then you just go like part one, part two. But the main thing is they cut out everything that you as an old school movie viewer would consider, like the fidelity, like the opening scene. So they get to the point. They're establishing shots. And just, yeah, they just go like, "Paparapara, let's go, plot, plot. Let's keep this thing moving. Let's go. I hear that." That's how I felt. But then I went, when was he going to watch this movie? And here you are talking about the same movie. Yes. And I was going, "Which do I prefer?" There are many movies that I've never watched in my life from before my time. And people will tell me, "You've got to go back. You haven't seen Hitchcock's film about. You don't, oh my god. You don't know cinema." Oh man. Good luck. Good luck catching. Good luck getting me to go back and watch that. But I go, yeah, but at least they are kids who may not have what we consider the taste, the real bonafide experience of the film, but they are closer to it than nothing. And so please trust me. I'm completely with you in the feeling. But I then go like, "No, you know what? How they come in is how they come." You know who you used to do as well. I guess they still sort of do churches. They're like, "How you come to Jesus, we're not worried about. And what brings you? We don't worry. It could be that you hit rock bottom. It could be that you brought a friend. It could be that. And that like welcoming inclusive feeling is one that I've tried to adopt in comedies where I go, "What brought you here?" You know where mine would go? The first time I had to deal with this was when somebody said that they liked me because they had watched like some other like clippy comedian who wasn't even a stand-up. That's the one that got me. There were people who were making, have I told you about this? People would make fake stand-up shows of you. No, no, no, of themselves online. They would stand up in front of a green screen. No. And then they would use editing software to make it seem like they were in a comedy club. And they would put laughter in. And they would, you know what I mean? Yeah, and people would watch this. And if you watch it as a comedian, it's uncanny value. You'll find yourself going, "Something's weird here." That joke doesn't sound as funny as that laugh. At first you go, "Am I being a hater, am I?" But then you go, "No, no, there's a craft of comedy that I understand." That timing doesn't match that. That pauses. And then you go, "Oh," and then I found out there were a bunch of people doing this really blew up during COVID. So they would, they weren't comedians like stand-ups. And they'd make these shows. And they would do quite well. And someone said to me one day, "Oh, I love your show." So I actually, I've, I was a big fan of this thing. And then I saw your video and then I loved yours. And then I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, how dare you like that?" And like me. How dare you do you understand that I am a comedian? I was like, "Yo, how they come is how they come?" Yeah. How they come is how they come. You know how I started liking sushi? First, I just ate fish fingers. I was not a sushi. I hated sushi most of my life. Really? My whole, yo, the first time was a girlfriend at the time. She gave me sushi. I was like, "This is disgusting. It is unnecessary. And most importantly, is un-African. This here, I can never eat this." I was like, "This is madness here. You are giving me raw fish to eat." I don't understand how we even paid this. How is this restaurant still in business? This is a scam. They gave us raw fish and we paid them for it. And now when you see me today, I mean, but how did I start? Fish fingers got me and fish fingers are the gateway drug. So what I'm saying is Tina, like maybe we shouldn't judge the fish fingers because they could bring us more people towards sushi. Yeah, I mean, it's true that there is, you know, the ego of it that I'm coming from. And then there's the logical that you are coming from. I think that you go with me and you say, "I work so hard." No, we all have that. Perceived in 60-second fish finger bites. Like, this is not dino nuggets. But you're right. You know, it needs, I can agree that the accessibility of it. We rely on that. I think maybe more than we like to admit. Yeah, yeah. I know that before comedy, sorry, before social media, I had a whole opposing gripe that I found that comedy when people would come to a comedy show and maybe it's a bit of an amateur show and they do not love it. They think, "Oh, I guess I'm just not a comedy." Oh, yeah, I would hate that when people were like, "I'm not a fan of comedy." I was like, "No, that's not possible. You just haven't found your comedian." Yeah, it's not real, it's not real, man. Yeah, it's not good. No, no, sorry, this brings an interesting point. It almost feels like social media, the internet is consuming, is cannibalizing every industry. It is. At some point, film makers hate the kids that make TikTok videos. Yeah, they do. Musicians hate AI music. Yeah, they do. Comedians, obviously, we know who we hate. We're not going to tell them because now they'll know. Journalists, yeah, financial advisor, because there's people who with their shirts off in six packs and selling forex and driving a Lamborghini in Miami and giving financial advice. So I guess, yeah, it is, it is consuming everyone, but I think the true artists of every trade, whether it's financial services, movies or acting, they'll always emerge because I feel like the true thread of braids of any industry will always win. Yeah, maybe, maybe all that I'm feeling is I just hope and maybe it won't never happen, but I'm hoping that that there is still this final, this filter from social media consumption into the bigger art for the. Yeah, that's, that's what we all hope. Yeah, no, that's what I hope. I don't even think it's going to happen. I think it is happening. I think it's always happened. There is zero chance I would have ever gone to a baseball game had I not seen baseball highlights growing up in South Africa on Gillette World Sports Special. There was no world. And I'm sure someone would say you can't distal baseball down into highlights, but that's how I got it. That's how I got basketball. That's how I got all the sports that I never would have gotten. And so to sort of go back to the thing we were saying just a while ago, the people are being inspired by something. We may not wish for that to be the inspiration. Someone might go, you go like, no, this 60 seconds is not, is not me. And it's like, that is true, but it's the beginning of you and it's a piece of you and it's, it's better than the amount of you. And so for me, I go like, yeah, you know, that'll be it. Yeah. I mean, it is a bit really good. I think we all have no matter who we are in our life that we realize we're never going to fully be able to be perceived 100 percent authentically as we are. So we may as well let that go. Like all this, the inspiration and how I used to feel like, no, you don't know the whole story. Like, they're never going to know the whole story. I love that. And and maybe that's what inspiration is. It's taking what they take from from you. You know, that's how that's exactly that's the most amazing thing. That's exactly how I feel every time in business class. I'm like, no, you don't know the whole story. But as they pass to go to coach, I'm like, take this inspiration. Take this. - You only need Jim to take a meaningful moment. (laughing) - Yo, Tina, this was too much fun. Thank you, for real, for real. This was just like too much, too much, too much fun. I hope we catch you backstage on the road somewhere in a thing, but either way, let's do this again. - Are you on the, are you on tour? - I'm sporadically, I go where the road takes me. (laughing) - Wherever there's a road, I find myself about to go. - I like that, I like that, I like that, I like that now. - Are you new in LA or just? - South Africa, you know what's interesting? Maybe I give off this vibe. I have never been LA. People always, people always think I like lived there. They think, no. - I've been New York, but most of the time, South Africa, burned down, down, down, down, down, down. - South Africa, just living my life. (laughing) - For good. - I like it, I like it. - Thanks Joe. This was fun. - This was so fun. - You are so good. - Yes! - What now with Trevenoa is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevenoa Sanajamin and Jess Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Paduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.