02: Timeline Ch 2—Modern Era with Kate Vass

Hello, hey everyone at 6 o'clock, so thank you all for joining Hey kids, thanks for joining us Hello everybody. Thank you very much for your invitation Let me first introduce the Lorentz team that is on this call So first of all there's Peter Bama, Monk Entenny who actually writes the the Charity of Art timeline This timeline just to remind you it's like 10 chapters in total. We already released two of them For every chapter we want to do a Twitter space is to discuss it There's also Conrads who is I think is dialed in from the Lorentz accounts Conrad and I will be go hosting this talk and then of course there is Kate's Kate Vess Our guest today who is the founder of Kate Vess gallery in Zurich Switzerland Which has been focused on Charity than no media art since 2017 And this gallery has been showcasing and distributing the work of both established and emerging artists in these fields And has organized in our opinion like very important exhibitions such as AutomatumMensch in 2019 which was created by Gareth back and Jason Bailey But yeah, Kate, can you tell us a bit more about yourself? And I'm also interested to learn like where you're interested in modern art modern art began Thank you for the kind introduction once again. I don't really like to speak about myself to be honest with you But yes, my background is actually very diverse I guess my artistic sort of relevance starts from my childhood because I've been in theatre music and I've been always kind of developed in my career towards performing and Playing piano singing and playing in a theatre So I guess my education about the history of modern art and Most of it from music perspective Musical history came from the childhood because I was really passionate about that and Later when I was a teenager my life has changed and I developed my career a little bit in a different direction But not too far away because I think you know music is very mathematical and I developed my career in finance and math so not too far away and and been in banking and asset management and coming from investment side I've been always looking and collecting arts mostly photography and contemporary art and By engaging from the collector's perspective first for almost like five to seven years I would say and really really really Spending too much time I would say from For collecting and visiting all the fails and the galleries opening and artists studios I think it was from 2014 That's when I also decided that I am going to leave financial industry and start my own thing and That said I opened up my consultancy business back at the time about advisory services for collecting and managing alternative assets which are obviously related to arts as well and in 2017 just by chance I was In contact with one of the photography galleries actually and I had this idea why not to open up the space in Suri just to help him out because he was in different location and by writing a business plan and sort of brainstorming this I Ended up opening the gallery eventually alone not not with a partner um, but That's I came across the interesting space I mean the concept changed the key as well because I was engine up to do it alone not not with a concept of existing gallery And I didn't want to you know if I would do it alone I thought like I don't want to do it in a classical way. I don't want to see the sort of white cube profs cure Space very cold very Uninviting most of the time very intimidating where once you Go to the gallery and there is no information and someone is sitting just behind the counter and Nobody wants to talk to you because you are not like one of a famous collectors for example or I don't know The person really not engaged with the gallery somehow that they can meet and greet you and welcome you nicely So I wanted to create something different where The gallery would serve the purpose of Almost a museum where you can actually invite more wider audience and try to educate if If audience wants to be educated but where they can sit down and enjoy read the book Get access to the library which I I have quite a lot of books and collect books as well um and Feel like home, you know around art and and discuss and you know get familiar Also mostly focusing on the new generation of collectors because This is the most important generation, you know because I want to live around people who are also passionate about the same things and passionate about So that's how I started um really up like a short story No, thank you for the introduction Kay and uh thank you for actually joining us for this kind of Uh more broad chapter two discussion of our timeline um and I think before we get started into some of the moments that we highlight here today I wanted to ask kind of Peter What was like the idea behind starting the modern our era at 1815 instead of 1860? I think when you look at a lot of previous timeline or historical resources you see that the modern era began around 1860 but for us we We started a decade earlier. So what was the thought process behind that? Yeah, I think it's um I think that's a really good question Uh, so like the short answer is that My favorite history of of digital art or electronic art has is probably frank poppers art of the electronic age and he begins the story of electronic art with uh the arts and crafts movement And the arts and crafts movement was kind of directly inspired by this uh London great exhibition uh this world's fair in London in 1851 so we'll we'll talk about that in the first moment But that's why we started it there just because of that connection uh from uh frank popper to the arts and crafts movement and And I'll talk a bit about how that's connected the ANC movement is connected to this uh great exhibition Yeah, and I think with that we can kind of jump right into like that that first moment you mentioned the 1851 the great exhibition of London lights Early spark by the group the arts and craft movement um and then kind of just talking about how it ties to industrialization And kind of art nouveau or kind of the Bauhaus movement Peter Yeah, sure, so again like frank popper starts uh his history of electronic art with arts and crafts and the arts and crafts movement was directly inspired by This great exhibition of London because you know, this was really the first time that uh a lot of industrial and manufactured goods were being kind of produced and showcased You know, this is 1850 so you know, this is still the beginning of industrialization some you know western europe it's been going on for uh a few decades but It has not reached a lot of the world yet And so this was kind of the first time a lot of these manufactured goods were introduced and the arts and crafts movement Was inspired by how poor the quality was of these manufactured goods and so the arts and crafts movement kind of ironically because it was such an important Part of these sort of mechanization of art history, but they were staunchly opposed to this kind of cheaply made manufactured goods and and that was kind of the Where they decided That was the inspiration for their founding um and That was that influential kind of the influence that they had on the arts and crafts is the main reason why we started here And yeah, Kate is there anything you wanted to add about Arts and crafts movement or about when you would start the kind of history of modern art or This great exhibition of London Yeah, of course. Um, thank you. Well, I think Uh by first receiving the points of milestones in the history of art that you have shared with me I was first a bit like oh my god Interesting why this particular points, but After I looked at them a more closely it makes sense because I think the crystal palace exhibition Which also was this great exhibition of London which was organized by Prince Albert um I mean, initially, I think it was, I always tried to connect it with also political situation, what was back at the time, because it's always has this meaning. And the British economy, it was like very near in its heights, in comparison to the rest of the world. And I guess that was also one of the parts like why Prince Albert wanted to showcase British industrial technology and culture and sponsored the whole exhibition. At the end of the day, they ended up, of course, showcasing also like international contributors and thousands of objects, including also companies and individuals. And afterwards, arts and crafts movement was like, became quite important and movement. I also think we should bridge it to somehow, if it influenced somehow, to generate a art. And if we want to find this point, somehow, if we do, I think, this particular mind milestone from my perspective, I'm not an art historian. I think it kind of sought to promote craftsmanship and all these techniques and the most important integration of all art in the everyday life. So like generative and, you know, crypto art or web free movement, sort of also the same ambition, you know, that to bring art into everyday life for everybody. And I think that was also having more or less the same purpose at the end of the day. Apart from what you mentioned, Peter. Yeah, I think that is a really critical part of this movement. And also with arts and crafts, what's important is the effect that it also had on the art newvo movement that followed and then from there, you know, constructivism and Bauhaus and Victor Vazarelli and Grav. And so it's kind of the, I see it as sort of the modern beginning of the story. And if you look at the timeline of chapter two, you can, we go into a lot closer detail of exactly how the arts and crafts in art newvo and Bauhaus movements were connected. Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, art and the war took many ideas from arts and crafts. And, but I think they were like combining also with more gardening forms and getting inspiration also from nature in comparison to arts and crafts. But yeah, I think it's definitely art and the war embraced a lot of aspects of industrialization and as well the materials and techniques from arts and crafts. I really like it. Have you also discussed a political situation? I think it's also inspiring, like for these days, like it's probably not a coincidence that the US is kind of the epicenter of the charity of arts at the moment, potentially. After leading like the technological developments on the internet for like the last decades, so I think it's very interesting. At the next moment we wanted to discuss is where most timelines begin when it comes to modern art. In 1863, Manet created the work "La Déginée sur l'air" which was rejected by the Paris saloon, a salon for its unconventional style and subject matter. And after this, Manet together with César and some other artists established the salon de réfézer, which translates to the exhibition of rejects. And I was wondering, Gates, do you think we can draw any parallels between this moment in art history and the rise to significance of the charity of art movements? I think we can draw significance to all the points of history. I think all the points that mentioned in chapter one of your series in chapter two have some impact, some of them more significantly, some less significant on generative art and computer art. I mean contemporary one. Art and the war, I mean we're still talking about the Belle-e-Pauque. I mean when you talk about the Manet work rejected by Paris saloon. And yeah, I think impressionism's movement and Manet's work is a pre-impressionism sort of thing. It's definitely a good point to start looking at the references. But I just want to say that chapter one of your series also had a lot of points that I think are very significant and impacted as well, generative art scene. Saying, talking about Manet's rejected thing, I love this story when I was learning the history of art. I particularly enjoyed that because he was rejected and he said, "Okay, how are we going to do ourselves and organize the exhibition like saloon de refusé?" And I remember talking with Gourde Bac in 2018 when we've been doing this blockchain exhibition and we invested a lot of energy into explaining people why the blockchain art is art and educational sessions, et cetera. And we were making jokes that probably we just have to call this exhibition saloon de refusé and just call it day because at the end of the day you don't see those guys in the museums. Of course, we didn't know that it's going to be so widely accepted very, very soon. I felt that it's going to be eventually accepted but I didn't realize it's going to be so soon. Amazing things, Gates. At the same, around this period in time, a little bit later, saloon also created the more scientific to our series. Peter, maybe I can also ask you, why do you think saloon was such an important figure in modern art history? And specifically this series, why was it so influential? Yeah, so this series was especially where Saison started in particular kind of breaking from these traditional conventions and flattening space. He started using a lot of geometric shapes and abstraction. So he treated, so he has a quote of saying that painters should quote unquote treat nature by means of the cylinder, this fear, the cone. So this is really when you start seeing these representations of reality start to kind of fracture with Saison and I think it's most clear and most obvious in the subject matter of Mont Saint-Pictoire. And later, not very long after he finished with this series, which I believe he started it around the 1870s and he finished it around 1906, 1907. And it was just after that that cubism, that rock in Picasso started cubism and Picasso was very open about how influential Saison was to cubism. And even saying that Saison was the father of us all. So this is a hugely important kind of connection and art history from this sort of impressionism movement to the sort of abstract geometric abstraction movement. Absolutely, I think also like because Saison was so early, like sort of Pianne of a cubism, I think he was together with Picasso, trying to break the object to develop a style where the objects would be broken up and reassembled and then analyzed in abstract form. And I think Keny Shertel was referring in one of his articles about cubism that they were the first one looking in search for the fourth dimension or for the fourth dimension. And I think this is also an interesting reference because cubists were in search for the fourth dimension and with their generative art, probably we are looking for like five, six dimensions already. And I like that reference. I just remembered this Keny's article. I don't remember which one, but I think it was last year. Yeah, I think that that mention of the fourth dimension is really critical. And I think that that also plays an important role in this history of digital art and electronable. electronic art because you know the fourth dimension is time and so time in a painting or time in plastic art is is the sense of motion and so much of electronic art is the history of motion in art and going from you know aesthetic painting to to a digital you know uh I'm immersive and animated experience and and so I think that that this kind of period between uh sezon and and Picasso with cubism and adding the fourth dimension is is so important in that you know that step in generative art history absolutely maybe yeah it's also interesting to see like how many generative artists like have been directly inspired by by sezon um because like the most scientific tour like throughout more nor has a series dedicated to it um and just last week like we had a Galbit Harvey raider um well actually Twitter spaces and he also mentions that like sezon's color work is like a direct inspiration for him uh so these like intergenerational dialogues are also super super interesting absolutely yeah and the next moment we actually had on our well we the next moment that we think is like very significant like from the spirit um I think we already touched on this like briefly but um let them wa zel da vignore by Picasso which kicks off cubism in 1907 um is there something um Kate you want to add about the cubism movements and the impact on um yeah on later art history um well in particularly about that painting uh I think you know Picasso was like you know was very radical like took a very radical approach I would say in this particular painting and they're like multiple perspectives with single image and lots of introduction and elements of African tribal masks and you know a lot of things that then will be later associated with cubism but I think it also came again I want to say from political kind of thing because again like France was in in um later at the end of the 18th century um going through a well period of economy and was also expanding a lot into uh colonials like you know people could travel to Africa particularly and I think you know uh Paris was also a very um important cultural hub um center of art and war and like for many other um different movements which actually emerged also during the bail book and I think that also um helped a lot you know the the artists to be inspired from the African culture and also maybe uh you know there was no internet there was no connection so this time sends and also that you know to maybe recall the or imagine you know this travel and time or different dimensions I think it was also inspired by that that you know with the whole culture uh in in that it was in France at that time because if you look at their other countries at the same time there was a different sort of movements in different feelings yeah and we will definitely get to some of the countries especially when we start talking uh soon about Bauhaus but uh yeah I think just to talk on a little bit more about this painting and just the the beginning of of uh analytical cubism here in in 1907 uh just in touching again on that fourth dimension you know in addition to kind of bringing that element of dynamism to you know a static canvas it it also did a lot to uh present these multiple perspectives of an object and break down uh you know this kind of single composition and and this fixed viewpoint that had been you know so important in in art history you know going back to at least since the the Renaissance so not only did it you know suggest this you know time and fourth dimension this passage of time but it also shattered this this notion of the fixed viewpoint and and both of those were so important to you know the upcoming op art and kinetic art movements which were you know two really important predecessors of of digital generative art and and again you know just going back to that how how important uh movement and the portrayal of of movement was you know back when you didn't have a digital screen you only had a canvas you know I think it's so fascinating how these you know the clever different the different kind of clever ways that these artists try to incorporate that into their work I think it's you know super interesting thank you for both of those responses um and I think as we move on to like the next moment so within the same year of 1907 and we kind of talk about Helma off-clints really monumental series the 10 biggest and maybe you can ask Peter if you can kind of expand on why this series it was so significant to Clint's creative process and maybe how the style of non objective abstraction kind of helped lead to some of the generative aesthetics or maybe even generative ideas that we see today yeah sure and of course um I yeah I can touch on this briefly but you know what's so interesting about you know these pieces from 1907 is that you know they if you look at a art history textbook or you know you google it online of you know who you know quote-unquote invented you know abstract art or geometric abstraction or like when was the first abstract painting you know usually you get answers like Kentinsky or Mondrian or Malievic and all of those works were you know close to 10 years or at least you know eight years I think Malievic started working on a lot of his entirely abstract work around 1913 so six years later so this predates all that work and I think it and not only that but off-clint made it clear that you know she didn't want the work shown until 20 years after passing and then it still wasn't really even discovered until 1986 so you know we're talking 80 years after you know it was first produced and you know so these works have such an interesting story and the kind of the history of geometric abstraction but I think they they critically kind of highlight some of the obstacles that that women are decided to face where you know they they didn't have a place to exhibit their work and then you know they weren't even comfortable enough to exhibit it you know during their lifetime so yeah I'd love to hear Kate's perspective on this as well. I actually love that you mentioned this point because I mean to me it represents two things and I think you already mentioned that so I totally agree with you that first of all as a female artist you know she was earlier you know and she was actually early or for all of us and for the ones who actually doesn't know human off-clint I think she was practicing also it was very popular back to time with sort of transcendential spirit tourism meaning that you kind of gather together and have these cions in French and try to connect with spirits with multiple spirits or with just one spirit either directly or through the medium and it was very very popular and I think she started practicing that very early and I think God involved even more and her practice is very much related to that and I think why is it important to to speak about her is again it's this sort of travel and time first and that you know she got this commission of 10 biggest she claimed that she had this communication from the spirit on one of the cienses and and been asked to to to create this work and then she started creating and creating and creating and then I mean she wasn't exhibited of course because because of her will she said it's too early there the world is not ready for my work please exhibit my work after 20 years of my after the death but eventually you're right Peter it was very very later when it was publicly shown and if you look at her work it's the four the ones who haven't seen that I think it's so contemporary it's mind blowing it's just you're looking at the absolutely contemporary art and I just had to believe maybe she did have a connection with spirits and she could speak to that and maybe it was some sort of voice from the future, you know, that talked to her and asked her to create all this sort of planes, you know. So I think yeah, apart from being early, being female artists, underrated, not referenced enough for this thing, and then for being very, very early time in her work, and again this more like a transcendental spiritualism, which is interesting. That's what I wanted to add. Thanks Kate for this additional background on the amazing Dharma Africans. I see some new faces in the spaces by the way, and I just want to mention that we like the way the spaces is structured is that we go like true moments, which can be found on timeline.larandome.art. I were currently discussing the second chapter, so the modern art one. And this brings us to the fifth moment that we're going to discuss. We're actually combining a few moments here. So we situate ourselves in 1915, and constructivism has just been established by Tatlin and Rochenko, and Malivic also organized this 0.10 exhibition. And Peter, I actually want to ask you, for this last moment that I mentioned, Malivic, his exhibition, your rights, the suprematism's exaltation of pure form and geometry would become fundamental aspects of digital generative art. I was just going to ask you, can you expand a bit on this specific line? Yeah, so with suprematism and their focus on pretty much complete and total abstraction, I mean, with as evidenced by Black Square, which is literally just a painted Black Square on a white background. And so this really highlights the importance of geometry in generative art's history. And so if you look back at chapter one of our timeline, a lot of those moments were looking at the development of visualizing mathematics and visualizing algorithms and the importance of geometry and logic and algorithmic thinking in that kind of visualization of mathematics. And so I think that this kind of Malivic's suprematism and his focus on geometry, it was fundamental to digital generative art when later artists would use a lot of these same mathematics principles and start coding their work and start representing shapes and geometry through code. And I think this is really kind of like one of the most important predecessors in forebearers. Is there anything about suprematism and Malivic or constructivism that you wanted to advocate? It's interesting because for me it's not only about geometry. I think you mentioned on timeline there like the Rochenko and Tatlin constructivism. And those two movements were like at the same time, which was interesting because constructivism was mostly focused with the idea that art should serve like a greater purpose and contribute to construction, society and everything. And it has to be functional and practical. And suprematism was more like metaphysical sort of way. And about Malivic or Black Square, I think we just wanted to sort of reject any representational art. And they didn't know probably how to express themselves like beyond the Congress and beyond the depicting this physical world. That's why for me suprematism is like very metaphysical. And that's the reason why it's so important for generative art as well. It's like the movement which was seeking to transcend from the physical world and get pure forms, colors and individual exploration if that makes sense. Yeah. And it's so also like you mentioned about suprematism and constructivism. It's so fascinating that this kind of rivalry between Tatlin and Malivic and how interesting it was that they were exhibiting in the same year, 1915 and even in the same place in Russia. So such an interesting moment and year in the history of art and the history of the story of generative art in 1915. But I think it's also again related to the history of like you know what was actually happening in Russia back at that time. Yeah, the revolution and what more one. Yeah, exactly. And I think you know there was a certain propaganda taking place for particular things and you know, industrialization and Rochenka Tatlin who've been believing that you know in this propaganda probably and as much as I enjoy Rochenka photography, I see this influence, political influence a lot. And probably there are other parties you know who've been like suprematists. They've been by intuition probably disagreeing you know what's going on and what is like with their reality around them. And as much as I looked and read about Malivic Black Square, there's a lot of different stories and of how it was painted and created, I think it was more like he was like very like pure like really talented people can feel time or what's going to happen in a couple of years by themselves. And I think it was just sort of the feeling of that there's no other way to express the world around you or how the world will change around you and we're talking about the world war by just sort of eliminating two level zero because everything will be just washed away from the surface. And that's the reality. And probably this is the intuition, the artist's intuition that there's no other way to express yourself particularly on canvas. So it is very yeah individual but I think suprematism is one of my favorite movements that's why I'm so emotional when I speak about that. Yeah thank you for those responses. I really like how you kind of mention it's like one of the first movements that kind of seem to transcend the medium that it was created on and like the influence that played in like future endeavors of creative processes. And as we kind of move to our next moment from 1919 we kind of talk about one of the first parts institutions that played a big role in some of the most influential developments. And it's when Walter Gropius found the barhouse. Can I interrupt you? I'm sorry. Go ahead Kate. I am wondering it really left me puzzled why there was no data movement which was born the same year mentioned on the timeline. Yeah I think in terms of the history or the importance of kind of this movement in early 20th century art to generative art. I think there's no question that I think the and this is something that lots of art historians mention is you know data along with constructivism and usually futurism and or supremacism is mentioned too. So you're absolutely right. Data is one of if not the most important movements in the story and it's very much it plays a central role on the timeline in chapter two. We didn't mention it here in these top 10 moments at least explicitly just you know because of constraints in time but I think it's a really good point that that data deserves mentioned and it's around the same time period. Is there anything you want to add about it Kate? No no I just think you know like maybe when we talk about the next point of Marcel Duchamp or we can talk about data as well. Yeah that's a good point. Great. It didn't identify as a data S but certainly along with surrealism was one of it you know it's and conceptual art was one of its been a biggest figure. Yeah I think we know what we're talking about. Yeah so I think we can transition to kind of the bar house's influence and maybe even kind of tack on that eighth moment that we have mentioned of like Hunter Stolls being named the director of the bar house we even workshop and kind of the influence that had and kind of the large regard of like the influence of the females that were really leading the processes within the bar house if Peter wants to Peter or Kate wants to expand on that. Maybe I'll just really briefly talk about like connect arts and crafts at bar house again and then Kate you can please feel free to take it from there. But yeah, just going back to I really want to hammer this connection between arts and crafts and Bauhaus and you know arts and crafts was really about synthesizing this kind of relationship between artists machines and art and then William Morris had this Took the stand against poorly made manufactured goods which again he he encountered for the first time at that the world's fair in 1851 and but then it was Henry Van de Vell to a Belgian Who brought these kind of arts and crafts and art nouveau ideas to Germany and Henry Vell de Veld He started the the Vimar school of arts and crafts and Water so he was Belgian and in 2015 again like kids had the The kind of the history in the context matter so much in 2015 because he was Belgian he had to leave Germany because of World War one and Walter Gropius took over at that Vimar school of arts and crafts and It was from there that Gropius turned the school into the Bauhaus in 1919 and that that's kind of where the story starts and I'll let Kate talk about its influence, but I just wanted to highlight that some of that Genealogy one more time Let me talk about That's not fair I I think oh God well, I think it's kind of goals without saying that Bauhaus movement is clearly even from the statistical point of view has a huge influence on generative art and Yeah, statics is definitely picked up quite Quite vividly in majority of the works particularly if we look at the earlier Works by generative artists I'm talking about our contemporary artists that we all know from recent years But I think What I personally like about the Bauhaus movement is that the philosophy was sort of aimed to very holistically arrange everything together, yeah, and like emerge all the different elements and fine arts and architecture and technology together and Bring this to social and cultural change, you know through this sort of movement And I think it's also apart from just a statistical geometrical point of view and design and everything which is very obvious And I don't think I need to talk about that. I think there is a certain similarity of generative art being social and Being trying to change our culture through this as well because I see I've seen a lot of people Drawing in the space Statical arts and generative art without any kind of worship about art or fine art or History or design of photography and then through that they got involved and this is what really I admire is that you know It engages people and it brings on a service so many different layers And encourages people to learn Yeah Sorry to to throw you that hot potato there, but no, I think you answered it beautifully and and just wanted to also add on the kind of connection from the constructivism school to to Bauhaus and Like through the works or through some of the professors there So yeah, Vesley Ken Densky and then last little hole Nage as well So they took those constructivist ideas and brought them to the Bauhaus especially kind of integrating art and design and technology and then Just kind of reflecting on some of the staff at the school in general You know Annie and Joseph Albers you have Johannes Itten and Paul Clay and Kintinski and and Stagel so and then Molle Nage so it was just a wildly important Kind of movement that started here in 1919 and you know, unfortunately It was shut down. I think it was 1933 and You know that really precipitated along with the rest of World War II this kind of art drain or brain drain from Continental Europe towards the United States and maybe we can talk about that later, but it just such a hugely important Moment on the timeline and is there's anything else you want to add? Okay, yeah, absolutely. I think I should add to that beautiful group of artists Joseph Albers who is usually very much overlooked from the Also when we talk about Bauhaus movement and I think you brought a lot To all also to our contemporaries. He A lot of quotes that can be used. You know when we talk about Alice pace now But yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Peter. Thank you very much for pointing that out. I mean There was a lot of experimentation and Lots of theoretical studies and I think you know Kandinsky styles it changed a lot and was influenced a lot about Bauhaus Yeah, thank you for that kind of historical lesson and like genealogy lesson Behind the Bauhaus and some of the large influences it played in kind of a right-of-way of Kind of creative mediums and then as we move to kind of the seventh moment and kind of I think Kate touched on this a bit with the data movement But talking about myself do shop and man raise Rotary glass plates and kind of its introduction and to kind of optical art a bit and kind of its significance And I wanted to ask Peter like why you felt this particular piece was important to include into the timeline and maybe even the specific 10 moments that we cover in this Twitter space Yeah, so for me at this moment it goes back to that genealogy of arts and crafts art nouveau constructivism Bauhaus Victor Vesarelli grab and I went into from their cybernetic art, you know, Nicholas Schaeffer Arts and technology movement So I think that cybernetic you can't talk about the history of generative art You know without talking about cybernetic art and and this early lumino kinetic art of man Ray and Duchamp Was was really an important step again in that kind of freeing art from the static canvas and you know letting it kind of Express itself more in terms of dynamism and motion and lights and that's exactly what these kinds of early kinetic sculptures represent And Kate is there anything you wanted to add to that or should we move to the next moment? No, I think it's I had a question why you chose particularly that work by Marcel Duchamp and Man Ray, but it makes makes absolute sense Yeah, now you talked about it, so it's all fine I just wanted to mention that while I was going through the historical point milestones of and in innovations um, I was fascinated because neon lights were found in 1910 Like that's how early everything was and I think during that time of the creation of this work It was already like sound on film technology invented and if you think about it, it's fascinating how all the tools that we are using every day in our lives were invented so so early I mean no wonder that you know people are so creative with all this innovation around them Yeah, I think that's such a really good point. It's like as soon as a lot of this and like technology comes out People are already starting to think about how they can use it in a creative way and and I think that's one of the The beautiful things about art and in just people as well Yeah, I think like science and and you know innovation and Arts, you know, I think they're also very very close to one another and I think Now that we are going closer to the computer inventions and and you know more to contemporaries You know, I think it's very important to feature all this scientific and innovation creations Yeah, that's kind of a perfect transition to kind of our next moment talking about Zeus and Some of his largest inventions whether that's the z1 or z3 or any act that we have all included into the timeline Maybe Peter you can expand on maybe Zeus's evolution of building these machines and kind of what each new development brought with Each of the things and maybe even some of his influential work with plotter machines and other inventions Yeah, I mean Zeus is such an interesting character in the story You know because he was he was making these highly technical extremely, you know You know, he was making mainframe computers before they even existed, you know, these he was making the very first digital computers ever, and basically his mother's basement in Germany while World War II was going on. I mean, it's just such a fascinating story and so fascinating. I mean, after the Z1 and he created this Z3 a few years later, it was actually destroyed by Allied bombing in World War II in 1941. So the very first kind of functioning programmable digital computer that paved the way for kind of so much in computer science and then this story about art, his digital art and generative art, it was kind of very unceremoniously destroyed just two years after it was built. And I think that's very fascinating story if you want to look into that more wheel now a few more minutes here. Kate, is there anything you wanted to add about Zeus or just any kind of comments you wanted to have about you wanted to make about the timeline or the chapter in general? Well, I like innovation so I mean always like first computer, PTAIT was destroyed and then it was Agnac which was also not like there were other computers that had combinations with this feature's but Agnac I think was the only one which had all this full spectrum of programmable electronic and general purpose digital computer. Again, why all this innovation so fast and so really taking place and also German engineer, we are in the middle of world war second so no wonder that innovation and science the first ones to win any war. So I guess this is also very much connected again to further development of computers and artificial intelligence and all the philosophy that emerged later and I think we are going to talk about cybernetics and further theory of communication as our last chapter, right? Yes, that's great Kate. That's the last moment that we want to discuss in this space. It's actually two moments combined in 1948 so nobbert, nobbert, nobbert, winner wrote cybernetics and Cloud Channel wrote the mathematical theory of communication and to finish it off Peter, why are these two takes so important as groundwork for generative arts? Yeah, so Max Benza in the 50s and 60s would develop this theory of cybernetics and kind of information theory and he was really interested in kind of how these generative systems, how they are also how you could quantify aesthetics and it was really important moment when Norbert and in 1947 and 1948 and it also happened to be at MIT where so much of the story of generative art takes place, you know, coined the word cybernetics and it was in that same year that Norbert Reiner published a cybernetics was then a mathematical theory of communication and so, you know, those are just two kind of similar works that would go on to influence Max Benza and then that kind of early, especially Franco, you know, German computer art of the 1960s with gay arc needs and those guys on Stu Gart. So this was kind of the beginning of that movement in cybernetics but from the this is the theoretical foundations of it. Awesome, thanks Peter. Yeah, so this was the last moment we want to discuss for this chapter. In next week we will be launching our third chapter that will talk about the 1950s and just as a small teaser like in the 1950s we covered the rise of computing and the first artwork made on analog computers including pioneering work of Mary Ellen butte and Bando Bozky. We will also cover the rise of cybernetics conceptual and kinetic art which are three profoundly influential developments in the rise of digital charity arts. I just want to thank all of you for listening in and of course Gates or joining us to discuss this chapter. It was really, yeah, it was amazing to have you, Gates. Thank you very much guys. Thank you so much. We do have a request. If you can stay on for one minute I can give Grace the microphone. Sorry, I just saw it now. Hey Grace, you should do it too. Thank you so much. Yes. So this is Grace. I have a question. Could we have a space to discuss the Bauhaus? Because it's such an important movement that it's also part of our lives today, like 100 years later. And I mean there's something about the structure of it, longevity that is very particular evidently and I don't know what it is but if we can discuss it and just try to figure it out together that would be great. Yeah, we can do that. I mean if you are already thinking because it definitely presents that moment and I think it would still be you know important and kind of ideas from now and that's very hard for any kind of art or even architecture to do. Absolutely. I think if the hosts are up for that I'm very much enthusiastic to speak about Bauhaus. There's so much to discuss. It's very diverse and full of historical milestones period with fantastic line of artists. Yeah, I would definitely love to and we didn't even get a chance to really talk about the weaving workshop much. So I think you could have a space, a full space about any of these 10 moments that we talked about today and really thank you for that. Yeah, thanks Grace. For the message. Yeah, we had this on the timeline for Gintosh Darts workshops to discuss that but we kind of skipped it somehow. Sorry about this. I think I'm just going to put it on a blog and timeline, everything that we discussed with all the events and political points and innovation as a you know kind of a help. I wish we could talk all day with you about each of these moments that would be ideal. Yeah, thank you so much for joining us Kate. Honestly, perfect cast. So interesting to hear what you had to say and we really appreciate it. Thank you Kate. Thank you. Thank you for inviting. Have a good evening. Bye. Thank you everyone. Bye. Thank you guys. Thank you so much.