Time to get real: Julien Tornare on Hublot's human touch

not a single brand, a luxury brand, went into football back in the days. The downside is that we went so much into football. By being so much into European football, we forgot a bit some other presences we had in different markets, especially in the US, where soccer resonates less than other sports. A couple of weeks ago, I was in a plane and I started to create a watch with AI to have a rendering of a certain watch with a certain material and add some stones and things. And I was like, OK, that's cool. I can do it myself. Never count on tourist flows to do your business in the market, improve yourself on local cloud, the rest will come. Never forget who you are, where you come from and keep grounded. Hello, hello, and a very warm welcome back to a new season of the Luxury Society podcast brought to you by Digital Luxury Group. I'm your host, Robin Swithenbank. And I'm your co-host, David Sede. David, good to be back, isn't it after the break? How are you? I'm good. Thanks, Robin. It's been a difficult start to the year here in Switzerland with the tragic event in Komontana. I want to express our heartfelt condolences to all those affected and wishing Swith to recovery for those still in hospitals. So, yeah, complicated start in the year. Yeah, that's a pretty sad story. And of course, I echo those sentiments wholeheartedly. I mean, it's been a big story over here in the UK as well. And very tragic. And so I want also to wish a speedy recovery to those who've been affected. So, David, the Luxury Society podcast returns, re-energised and ready to head into season three. Any predictions for 2026 at this point? Like a prediction of uncertainty and a challenging year ahead with lots of potential blacks won around making this podcast even more interesting, Robin. No doubt. Yeah, we've got all sorts of things lined up as season three gets underway. And we've got some great guests and we will continue to track this fascinating industry and hopefully bring you our audience, the kind of data insights and insider conversations that unpack how it's shaped. For this first episode, David and I have interviewed Julian Tonar, Chief Executive of the Swiss Luxury Watch brand Hewblowde. In fact, as this episode lands, Julian will be in Milan for Elvim H. Watch Week. We spoke to him a few days beforehand. And here's how our conversation went. Right. So, with Elvim H. Watch Week in full flow, it's David and my great pleasure. So welcome onto the Luxury Society podcast, Julian Tonar, Chief Executive of one of the events exhibitors, the Swiss Luxury Watch company Hewblowde. But first, a quick bit of backstory. Julian was parachuted into the hot seat at the Elvim H. owned brand in the autumn of 2024. After a short stint at Sister Brand Tag Hewyer, following the retirement of Hewblow's long-serving Chief Executive Ricardo Guadalupe, a move that came sooner than had been expected forcing Elvim H into a C-suite reshuffle. Before Tag Hewyer, Julian had held Zenith, another of the Elvim H. portfolio of watch brands where he's credited with sharpening the brand's image and story, contemporizing its product lineup and reinvigorating its profile. Going further back, he began his career in watches in the late 1990s with Raymond Vale before moving to Rieshmont's specialist watch division, where he would spend 17 years working with Vacheron Constantin, including spells in New York and Hong Kong. His move to Hewblow comes at a time when industry is under some pressure. Last year, rocketing gold prices in US tariffs added further burdens to an industry already attempting to offset the effects of inflation, rising labor costs, conflicts in Europe and the Middle East, the collapse of the Chinese domestic market and more besides. But he inherited a brand with a big profile and a big footprint, big being the operative word. Hewblow's Big Bang Watch, 20 years in the making last year, is one of the defining designs of the 21st century. While Hewblow's relationships with sport, particularly football, as well as in music and art, have seen it take up long-term residents in these zeitgeist, but changes afoot with Hewblow withdrawing from its sponsorship of this summer's FIFA World Cup and the UK's Premier League. And then later this year, the brand will open a state of the art new manufacturing facility. Julien joins us now to discuss these themes and more. From the company's headquarters in the Swiss town of New York, Julien, we are absolutely delighted to have you here and to open this new season of the Luxury Society podcast with you. Thank you so much for joining us. How are you? Very well. Thank you so much, Robin. Thank you, David. I'm really, really happy. It's the beginning of the year and having this moment with you is a great pleasure for me. Wonderful. Well, let's start with some big picture stuff, because, well, Elvin Mayt's watch week is now in its seventh year. So from where you're all sitting, having been to all of those, how does the watch and luxury landscape look now compared to the January's of years gone by? I think it's a different story because Elvin Mayt's watch week started, if I remember well, just before, just during COVID, which was a very weird year for the whole industry and for the whole luxury world, if not the whole world, we then evolved in a couple of years that I would define as almost a bubble, a bubble of business, a bubble of consumption, revenge buying, as we tend to say. And then there are years like 24, 25, where we've been digesting a bit the situation and getting to a new norm, which I mean is going to be more normal and healthier than those bubble years. But it's super interesting because each brand has to rethink about, OK, how do we digest those crazy years and continue to move for the future? What I love about Elvin Mayt's watch week is that once again, we are turned to the markets. We are doing it outside from Geneva when the more institutional saloon are happening in Geneva. So this time it's going to be in Milan, giving priority to Europe compared to the past where we were in Asia, in Dubai, as well as in the US. Just before we deep dive into Milan, Julien, when you look back at 2025, what were your highlights and lowlights? As Robin said, I took over in September 2024. So I had a few months to really understand what the situation was like for UBLO within this new context of the watch industry and try to understand, because UBLO is an interesting brand. It's a very young brand, only 45 years old. It probably had one of the biggest growth of the last 20 years, clearly starting from very small type of business in 2004 to becoming a major player. So we had to think about how do we digest that? How do we bring UBLO to the next level? And of course, 2025 was mostly taken by the celebration of the first iconic watch of the 21st century, the Big Bang. So I had a certain responsibility. So last year was a lot about focusing on this celebration and of course, working hard on what 20, 26, 7, and 8 would be. And how do we develop new things in terms of product and marketing, because UBLO needs to keep on going as a very innovative brand. So I would say 25 has been really celebrating this Big Bang anniversary all over the world. And preparing the ground for 26, during which you will see a lot of new things starting next week in Milan. Yeah, it's interesting that we're going to Milan and the LVMH watch week continues. The event, as you said, was born in a slightly strange season. And in that season, when Barnes or World and SHH, the two Swiss watch fairs were sort of running out of steam, of course, they've now both gone. I mean, in these straight in times, why does LVMH continue to invest in hosting its own event in January? I think there are a couple of reasons. First of all, it's interesting to have an event in January because it's a strong kickoff of the year. When everybody is still kind of surfing on the last year's wave, we are already kicking off the business properly with novelties, with new things, with new speeches, new dynamic in jam. So that's a kind of dynamic we like. And as I mentioned before, we go to the markets. And I'm Swiss myself. So I love to have all you guys visiting us in Geneva before in Basel, but the business happens all over the world. So it's a great way to show different markets that we go to them, we organize an event, local event, we only focus on end clients, on press, and on retailers from that particular region. And that's something I really like. And I know people appreciate us for that. So I think it's a great tradition that we created with LVMH. It's really interesting, Julien, that you guys choose Milan. There are quite a lot of important things happening, obviously in Milan, starting with the winter Olympics in the city next month. But also some other brands like Patek Philippe only there watch Artgon exhibition a bit later in the year in Milan. What's happening in Milan? You know, I think Milan is becoming more and more of a hub in Europe, thinking about Fashion Week obviously, which take a very big position in Milan. Thinking about also Italy as a market, you know? Watchers have always been so important in Italy and vice versa. Italy has always been a very strong market where often trends are setting. New ideas are coming from. You know, as both a Swiss brand, but let's not forget that Mr. Carlo Coco a founder is Italian from Milan. So there is a taste, there is a touch, there is something especially in Italy that we love. So we believe that naturally, it would be great to do it once in Milan, because we've done so many events in Paris, in London, in Kissitties, in Switzerland. Why not going to our Italian friends, where there is such a strong watch culture. We believe it was a great way, it's accessible, it's central. So that's nothing more than that, but I think it makes a lot of sense to do Milan for once. And I guess you will bump into some like former British residents that also should be relocated to Milan? Absolutely. We have a lot of clients from all over the world, based in Milan, we are doing very good business there as well. So I think it's a good opportunity to do something in Italy for once. We have to be quite careful when we're talking about Brits, expanding the population of this beautiful nation into other corners of the world. But one of the things that David and I were talking about just before we started recording was about the rise in interest for Hublot in India. Of course, we're moving into Milan, as you said, it's an important place and there's a lot happening there at the moment, but are there other places around the world, such as India [BLANK_AUDIO] and other territories, where you're seeing a significant growth in interest and sales for your brand. Yeah, India. You mentioned India is an interesting market because I've been in industry for 28 years and more or less since I started, I was always hearing that India would be the next China that we have to go there. Then we all realized that it's not so easy. There are taxes on luxury goods. The infrastructure was not there. The context was not really there for top end brands. And to be honest, I didn't know India much until I joined UBLO and I went to my first trip in India a few months ago. And I realized, first of all, UBLO started very early in India. So we have a very strong position. We already had the boutique in Mumbai. I went there to basically open a second boutique in India in Bangalore and I'm looking for a good opportunity in Delhi. So we already have a strong position. We are way ahead of most of the competition. And I believe it's important now to go. Why now? Because India is finally ready. I've seen great shopping malls where you have top brands, luxury environment and you have the right conditions to open up a boutique. So yeah, India is clearly a key market. I don't think it's going to be the China boom we knew in China 15, 20 years ago and over the last years. But I think it's a key market where we need to invest. It's going to be one of my top market. And obviously we have other markets that are upcoming that we are getting more and more present and stronger. I'm thinking about Indonesia, I'm thinking about Malaysia. Obviously South Korea is booming. So we are investing a lot there. Some Latin American country, etc. Where we need to explore alternatives to this huge China, which is now as we all know a bit more of a challenge for luxury goods. As indeed as Europe, of course, in Europe has taken a bit of a battering in the last 24 months or so. What are you doing to try and reinvigorate the business in what is a very traditional market? Yeah, I mean Europe is clearly characterized by two things. I mean we have great local clientele in Europe and Europe remains of course a key destination from tourists all over the world. So we blow is really playing on both sides and we are I think in key locations with beautiful boutiques able to welcome tourists as well as local clients in a good way. So in Europe, our focus would be more on our local clientele and how do we activate these local top communities? You know, UBLO is very well known. If I may mention a competition brand, I would say Panera with a panerist used to be very strong. UBLO, UBLO, this stuff, very strong as well. And it's our responsibility today to continue to capitalize on this community. So I'm doing a lot of events and brand activation with those communities in Europe because that's basically the healthiest. You know, never count on tourist flows to do your business in the market. Improve yourself on local client. The rest will come. But that's the guideline we give to every single market. We know the UBLO brand was and is still actually quite strong in South America but also in the Caribbean and so on. And it's true that Robyn and I do not cover that often at this region of the world. Not often enough. Join me. Join me and we'll invite you to an event over there. Please see there. I'm there on the plane already. What's your view Julien on South America, the Caribbean, etc. It's a great question David. Yes, it's true. UBLO back in the 80s and 90s became pretty quickly a very strong and recognized brand in Spain. And we know of course the influence that Spain can have on Latin America. That's probably the historical reason why UBLO is strong in that particular region. Why UBLO was strong in Spain because the Royal family were all wearing UBLO. It became like it spreads like wildfire literally in Spanish watchmaking culture and then it went all the way to Latin America plus of course the fact that UBLO is a very Latin brand. UBLO is about colors, is about shape, is about daring different things. We're not really I would say a conservative brand. We are the opposite. So we're very meaningful to this Latin countries. And naturally when you go to Mexico, when you go to Argentina, when you go to Brazil, in those countries UBLO resonate a lot. They want something that's very much alive, daring. So I think it makes a lot of sense. Let's take the US for example as a market. We will be naturally stronger in markets like Florida, Texas, California, then we will be in let's say Boston which is a very conservative northeast market. So that's you know. And so logically yes, we are strong in this region and we are investing a lot. Yeah, we are we are really developing in the Caribbean as well as in Latin America in a big way. Let's talk about marketing and storytelling. Two strands of the UBLO story that have been very strong. Really strong for the past couple of decades. As I mentioned in my intro, you've been very involved in sport and in music and in art. This year as has been discussed previously, you step back from these two major sponsorships with the World Cup and the Premier League while still keeping a foot in the sport by continuing to work with Champions League and the French superstar Kylian and Bapay. So many will be surprised to hear you've you've moved away from the World Cup, particularly given that it's in North America, the US being the watch industry's largest market. That remains prize-marketing real estate. So what's your thinking here? Yeah, it's quite clear. You UBLO there at some point and it was such a great move to go into football. Let's get back to those years where football was considered a popular sport but not very luxury oriented and not a single brand, a luxury brand went into football back in the days and let's give credit to Jean-Claude Biver and his team at that time that had the idea to break those barriers and get into football. And it became great and now we can see many luxury brands as well entering football as often and here I give credit to my predecessors. People tend to follow UBLO on that kind of moves. So it's been a great success. I would say the downside is that we went so much into football that we cannot be only football and when I say football I should say the American way soccer oriented. Why? Because by being so much into what European football we forgot a bit some other presences we had in different markets, especially in the US where soccer resonates less than other sports. So the idea is more to rebalance. UBLO is not only about soccer about football. It's about other things and I want to rebalance between drivers that are, how can I say, emotion drivers. UBLO is an emotional brand. We all know we sell beautiful watches like all watch brands but we don't sell goods that are a necessity good. We sell emotions. So you need to create emotion and sport is definitely a fantastic driver but music and art are also incredible drivers of emotion and that's why I want to rebalance a bit. So we will continue to be the main branding to football but we decided to focus on Champions League, Euro, of course, Europa League, etc. The different European competition as well as Killian and Bappe, maybe new players will John, maybe clubs will John but we want that to move a little bit away from all those competitions because it was too much and difficult to activate. So it's basically better focus and have also some bullets to do other activities next to football. That's really the idea. But football remains a key element of our marketing strategy. Speaking of those other activities, art and music and your moves towards them, how does this reframe the way UBLO will be marketed to consumers and why following that path? It's quite clear. UBLO is known today as a very strong marketing brand. Being very disruptive innovative, we have brought, as I mentioned earlier with football but I have tons of examples of being the first to bring such marketing, activity, directions, strategy, etc. We are also very well known for bringing new materials. Today many brands are using sapphire, are using ceramic but let's put it back in those days. UBLO was the first one developing and daring to get out of the only steel, gold and platinum approach. But UBLO is also a fantastic watchmaker and this we should never forget and I won't talk about it because me coming from very purest brand between Zenit and Vashem Kostantan, I was amazed when I joined UBLO to see the level of knowledge in watchmaking and the amazing developments we've had from a technical point of view in a very short time because we're talking only 45 years of age. Now coming back to your question, UBLO is about emotion, is about offering something special to our clients and I believe that when you are into sport, when you are into music, when you are into art, you also give the opportunity to our clients to have a real experience a real way to live what we call the UBLO vibes in a way that's not just a marketing statement but we really want our clients when they buy a new blow to say okay first I'm buying a very serious watch, a very serious watchmaking product with a good movement with everything that goes with. It's creative, it's innovative but it's also a brand that will offer me belonging to a certain community that are going to have fun that are going to enjoy great moments and you know when you offer that to your clients in terms of brand loyalty, there is no way to do it better. So that's why it's important for us. Of course there is brand awareness because football gave us for example great visibility, some people didn't know UBLO they saw it on the signage during football matches or in different ad campaigns and they realized that UBLO was a watch brand and he's kind of a cool brand but when you invite your clients to attend a football match to get to meet Killian and Bappe or to watch a match to a Luis Figo or people like that, it's a money cannot buy experience and today everybody is talking about experience but the experience is not just the glass of champagne and you know the credit card machine in the boutique and that's it. We really go far beyond that and in his introduction Robin mentioned the new manufacturer we are building it's going to be the best hospitality and experience tool in the watch industry. I'm serious and you guys will be among the first one to come, We are building this in a big way to offer our clients, our visitors something very unique in the watch industry because at the end of the day That's also what people want to buy. Yeah, and this brings us to sort of thoughts about connection and actually I want to steer the conversation Briefly if I may because normally this is David's favorite subject and not mine But it's towards the theme of artificial intelligence AI. It's one we come to regularly on this podcast as listeners will know I wonder is this focus on art and music and sport as well And the human connections that these inspire if this in some way the antidote to the growing influence of artificial intelligence Not just so much over the industry, but but over our lives as a whole. Yes Again, it's about to concrete and reality that we offer by using these three channels You know in the world where I mean my kids that are much sharper than I Every time I look at the video and I'm surprised to say daddy come on. This is AI, you know, it's not true And I'm like really and I'm kind of disappointed So I'm trying to keep up. I'm not as as good as David on that But I think people need also now to have real experiences and to enjoy just with your heart with your soul with your heart to get into a brand and to have a Special moment and in today's world. I think it's going to be more and more important That's what we hear from our community from our clients not later than December where we organized the last celebration of the 20th anniversary in Miami and we had a 50 cents performing for private group of Our clients. So that was a moment. I mean you can imagine how many people came to me during the night or after the night or send me a note in the next days Telling me Julian. We love you blow. We love other brands as well But I have to tell you that the night you offered to us like this privately in such an environment is one of the best Moment of the year and I'm so happy to have lived this thanks to you And many people would say the same about attending a football match or attending a Concert with Lang Lang or with any kind of performer and and I think that's what we least for so Yeah, I should be used for many reasons and we are more and more using it But at the end of the day, I say people need to keep on being in the real world and what we offer here is really a real world Experience. Yeah, it strikes me. This is one of the pillars that the industry needs to be leaning on in the Not just the watch industry but the luxury industry as a whole needs to be leaning on it as time goes by Anything that's real anything that's tangible anything that's human Has an extraordinary power to connect with them consumers Not just today not just in 2026, but for all eternity I would imagine and I wonder if the industry is going to be leaning on that much more heavily as it evolves I still want to ask I still want to think a little bit more about artificial intelligence When you said earlier in our conversation Hublot has often been the first. It's been disruptive. It's moved into churches where others have perhaps previously feared to tread What influence can we expect Artificial intelligence to have over Hublot design over Hublot storytelling over marketing Your posture has been to do things differently. Are you going to be leading the way with AI and the creative disciplines in watchmaking? Yes, I am. I mean, I was a real beginner a while ago and now I'm really getting into it and for me It's another partner that we have to count on that we have to keep around us and everything we do we can challenge ourselves in A much easier way than in the past. I mean AI for me is more something that you need to push yourself to think differently to bring new ideas Without believing everything because AI will not always and systematically tell you the exact truth and the real truth for your own good and for your own brand But it's going to force you to think it's like a developing a critical mindset in a way for me I use it this way. So when it's a design and not later than a couple of weeks ago I was in a plane and I started to create a watch with AI to have a rendering of a certain watch with a certain material and Add some stones and things and I was like, okay, that's cool. I can do it myself before that I would have had to go through the product department It takes a while and all that so I use it really up to 360 and if I have a marketing idea I will definitely use AI to give me a first opinion and my right and I not right why would you do this? Why don't you do that and it gives me kind of a mirror effect with my own thinking before heading to other people and I think that's a Pretty good way we are using it at the moment. It's a fantastic tool It's like when you read the back in the days you read the book then you read on internet and now you have AI Keep your critical mindset. Don't take it for granted. Don't take it like this is the reality because then you might do quite a lot of Mystics. Yeah, it's interesting the survey you mentioned about the plane and the sketch. Yeah You ended up like you're sharing them with your product team. Yeah, of course. What was it actually? Sometimes they're like okay, do you think you are a chief designer? He was a new chief design officer No, but that's a great question because today I could bluff you with a theory on a nuclear physics You know just going on AI here on my cell phone. You have to be careful staying who you are with your own knowledge But yes, of course they like it because it's part of everything and you know without waiting for I have been always I was doing it at Zenit and I'm still doing it to organize small groups of people from very different backgrounds within the company And asking them to give their opinion on XYZ subject because you can have a publisher having one of the best ideas in terms of marketing and vice versa And that's something I want to cultivate in new blows Culture so I'm pushing people to bring new ideas on the table with or without AI, but anybody can have a great idea We just did an initiative that I haven't talked a lot about yet because it's in process But it's called the les enfants terrible and it's a team of people from different backgrounds within the company Working on how pushing the limits of creativity and innovation in many different fields and we did a contest They had to make proposals. We made a first-selection They have a guy leading the whole project and they are going to propose me absolutely incredible initiatives on the brunt And that's exactly the way I like to work so yes AI, but you can always use people's brains for that Well, at least Robin, I think we are quite sure that it's the Rijul Juntornard that we have and not an AI right now You got my face Yeah, Julien, we must move away from AI and back into the real world I'm bricks and mortar and buildings you've already referred to this new facility that you're about to open and it's clearly going to be Quite something a hospitality venue as you described. We can assume that that was a course commissioned in better times to the industry But tell us a little bit more about what it's going to do for you as a manufacturer as a maker of watches So it's definitely going up to be an amazing production tool I'm multiplying by 2.5 the current surface of activity. So it's going to be big It's going to be for the next 20 30 years of the brunt clearly We are going to be able to improve our production at all levels quality wise a lot will be able to integrate More functions than we've had in the past and obviously it will be an incredible hospitality tool in which I will First of all put focus on our current expertise So the watchmaking aspect of the blow will be put on stage like no other Visit you could have done with the brunt. You will have a great of course Place also given to R&D because people when visit you blow in the past they always remember the Sapphire the ceramic and how we are growing our own sapphire inside the company no other brand is doing it So this we will clearly put on stage and emphasize on that But also will show what you blow is all about in terms of experience Today we have a small showroom of 80 square meters tomorrow I'm going to turn this into a 400 square meter space dedicated to clients I'm able to adapt to any kind of crowd any kind of Nationality culture any kind of event if you guys want to celebrate your birthday at Ylou I'll be able to turn this 400 square meter room in the best birthday party place you can imagine Careful or you might have rugged like coming back to you. We'll have a joint 50th there's Baby is a great singer so it could imagine to have a karaoke room You can play you will be able to play a football match if you want you'll be able to play piano with Langlang if you want It's going to be totally customizable but dedicated to client experience. I'm talking 400 square meter next to that you're going to have Something dedicated to art. I mentioned sport music and art dedicated to blow and art and it's relationship between the two We'll be absolutely amazing. You will have a place where sport will be also Focus on indoor outdoor you'll be able to practice Let's say if I have a one of our celebrity coming you'll be able to have a clinic with this celebrity Whether it's football tennis basket ball any kind of sport. So we are really creating this manufacture around something that will that will go far beyond Any kind of manufacture visit you can do myself. I've seen five or six Manufactures among competitions or friends brand that I like This will be way different. So we are going to make a big statement with that. I don't want to tell you too much No, but you are selling it to hell. I think the experiential part is something that Robin and I have been covering for quite a while I think making sure that people really feel something genuine and important is like key So the idea of experiential manufacture that is not just a Manufacture facility, but also an experienced center. I think it's very compelling Just speaking on that there are plenty of misassumption around the Swiss watchmaking. Yes One of which is that brands make every component of their in their watches Which is rarely true? So particularly of brands with high volume like Rolex Omega Ubleau Answer the question like how important it is Therefore to bring like production capabilities and capacities under one roof. It's been a great debate over the last couple of decades In case people tend to forget that 20 years ago, even the biggest names of this industry were not basically, first of all, using only in-house movements to go back to that, not even talking about components. It has changed. Integration has been the way to show you as a serious brand, as a really watchmaking brands, going into every single details. After I'm not going to comment, I mean, you know the rules from the Swiss made, the 60% ratio that you need to comply to, et cetera. It's important to be able to say that your watch movements are, first of all, of the highest level of quality and that are made mostly with Swiss components. There's still some components that are made abroad for many, many brands that are of the top quality. And I think as long as you are respecting the rules, then you comply. It's not so much about what percentage you go to or what level of in-house movement you have. It's about the level of quality that you are willing to provide and how you will make sure that our suppliers in Switzerland are also surviving because they are part of the tissue of the Swiss watchmaking industry. And that's extremely important. You know, it's known for a brand that has been working with probably one of the biggest share of Swiss and local suppliers. It has a cost, yes, but it's also a way of maintaining a great level of quality. It's also a way to maintain a great level of relationship because you know, when you work with some partners for years, there are the ones that will help you. The day you need something in a quick way, in an emergency way because you need this, you need that. We have a fantastic relationship with our suppliers and we'll continue. So yes, for us, it's more about upgrading our movement and of course maintaining a 100% Swiss-made policy for abroad. So we have basically everything to be a 100% Swiss delivering in terms of components. - I want to ask quickly about design and specifically about the Big Bang. We mentioned earlier in the conversation, it is the sort of icon you focused on it last year during its 20th anniversary. At the same time, of course, a brand, whether in any field of luxury can become too heavily reliant on its hero design, on its signature design. What's your view of that, where the Big Bang is concerned and how is that going to impact your product strategy? Is it a case of stick or twist? - I think we are lucky at UBLO because we have two icons. One is the Big Bang and one is the classic fusion. In terms of volume today, we sell slightly more classic fusion than Big Bang, you know? Classic fusion is really, really big. And the classic fusion design is clearly inherited from the Carlo Proco years, even if it's been modernized. And the Big Bang is obviously a Jean-Claude Biver's baby. So we have these two icons that we can play on, that we can develop playing on a Big Bang that is clearly much bolder daring, where you can play a lot with colors and design and new materials with almost no limit. When the classic fusion is innovation, because originally it's rubber with gold, but it's also a classicism that we have in our own brand, on DNA, and that I want to put back in the front. During the year, you will see it later in the year, capitalizing on this design with an Italian touch from the '80s, the '90s. People tend to forget because of the Big Bang that the Carlo Proco watch became an iconic watch in the '80s '90s. It's a watch that was on everybody's wrist. It was a cool watch to wear. A guy like Andy Wauer started his watch connection with six watches among them. There was a classic fusion. So we have to go back to that and play on the two levels, having, of course, an identity that goes across the two iconic watch, but each of them has its own specificities, and that's a great opportunity. So this year, you will see, of course, an established original Big Bang that we will present next week in Milan. Then you will see a totally new Big Bang coming later in the year that will be a new, how can I say, a new development, a new way of thinking about Big Bang. And later in the year, you will see our own reinterpretation of the classicism at UBLO. And people had forgotten sometimes about it because they're the only thing Big Bang. But UBLO can make a very thin, elegant, super cool and trendy watch to wear. And I know you guys appreciate also that kind of watch it. Before we let you go on a more personal note, I've been following your career for quite a while. Obviously, I think lots of people in Switzerland, friends speaking part of Switzerland, very proud and happy because a few of you, the CEO of Rolex, obviously, yourself, and a couple of others are originally from Adelis. Or the region, which is kind of cool. I wonder now that you have been a CEO for a couple of years and you know the industry really well. What's the best piece of advice you have received and how have you applied it in your career? Maybe it will also inspire some of our listeners. Yeah, of course. I mean, one advice I always keep in mind is when I was given at the very beginning of my career when I was at Rémono Wilde before even joining Rischmogoup. I was literally finishing my studies and I joined and the guy told me, you know, you're going to be in a luxury environment, you're going to be surrounded by people with huge financial means, spending a lot of money, going to experience incredible things. Like we all have in this industry, we're lucky to have experienced incredible moments. Never forget who you are, where you come from, and keep grounded. And that's another advice I got when I was 25. And today, what makes me happy is when a friend of mine or someone who's known me for years in industry, that I mean, you know what, whatever your position has been, whatever your age has been, your evolution, you are the same and you are happy to have a gastronomic dinner one night and the day after I can have a great British sandwich and enjoy it the same way. And that's really why I am. I mean, among my friends, among my taste, my kind of trip that I do when I travel. And I think that's a great advice because you can lose ground. And I've seen people losing ground because of this industry, because we are in the media, we are on TV, we meet celebrities, and sometimes it can create a lot of mental pollution for me, an important one. And then of course about the Swissitude that you mentioned earlier, you know, in Switzerland, we don't have so many highlighted industries as watchmaking. And I'm always proud to say, I'm Swiss, I'm representing one of our top key industries. And it gives me a little advantage when I go to Paris and I talk with my management. I'm showing my French side. And when I go to see some suppliers in the Swiss mouthheads, I take back my Swiss accent. And they like it. And sometimes I might give a little priority thanks to this. So you have to be able to play this Swissitude, which is so important in our culture. We all know that whether you are Swiss-French, Swiss German, Swiss Italian, it's important. Unfortunately, a recent tragic events in Komotana showed us that despite our different cultures and different languages, there is a strong unity in Switzerland. And I'm very happy and proud about it. Thank you for sharing that. So a very interesting insight. And we share those condolences for all those who were fans of our world. And in Komotana, it's been a big story over here. I'm being desperately sorry to see it. But do you know, before we let you go, I just want to ask you about the future. 2026, look ahead for us. What do you see happening? I didn't want to cast a cloud. But I read something in a McKinsey survey recently saying that 46% of fashion, luxury executives expect market conditions to worsen this year. So what's your mood looking into 2026? Is there room for optimism? Give us something to share. First of all, I would love to have a crystal ball and to know exactly what's going to happen. I think what characterised today is uncertainty. So I'll be very humble on my prediction. But I believe with everything that's happening today, we really don't know what will be the next month. It depends so much on global political context, obviously impacting a lot on the economic context. And it's difficult to say. But I tend to be a bit more optimistic. And I believe that 2026 might be better than what we had. I really say 21, 22, part of 23, where kind of a bubble, pretty positive. We all believe the sky is the limit. We were brought back to a certain reality. A bit tough. 24, 25 was not easy. But I'm still confident that if brands are focusing on what they do best, if we bring creativity, innovation, there's still a lot of people loving beautiful watches. So I want to be positive. I've been working on make the brand shine more than ever in the next couple of years. But I'm also working on the fundamentals of the business to be careful. That's our job as a CEO. You have to be able to anticipate. And today, honestly, anticipating is a lot about guessing, because we don't have much visibility. So I will push hard on the brand to develop in the next few years as if the sky was totally blue. But I'm also ready to press the emergency buttons in case bad things happen in the world. So that's the way I'm anticipating the year. But I'm pretty much optimistic. Well, Julien, I thank you so much for showing all those insights with us. I think the luxury society podcasts will join you in being optimistic, where possible. But certainly in trying to be human and in being real, as we look ahead to 2026. It's been wonderful talking to you. We're so grateful to you for coming on to the podcast. Thank you so much. We wish you all the best with LVMH Watch Week. It's a pleasure. Thank you both of you. My pleasure really to exchange with you. Always good questions, good discussions. So I enjoy my time. Thank you, Julien. Ciao, ciao. David, we've both known Julien for a while. And we recognize his natural energy and enthusiasm. But even so, it was good to see him on such great form. And apparently, really quite optimistic about the future. What did you take from that conversation? A couple of things. But as you, like the positive contagious energy of Julien, which I think you may have, became the perfect guest for the first episode of 1026. And beyond that, I think the experiential manufacturer is something quite intriguing and fascinating. We have seen many brands are trying to push the limits of experiential marketing, trying to be monican by experiences, and trying to build memorable souvenirs for their clients. Now, what Julia has been referring to is something kind of new that I didn't hear before. This idea of blending a manufacturer with real experiences that can go around music, that can go around sports, potentially key moments in life, like wedding and so on. This makes me think as new approach, compared to maybe brands who have been like refurbishing their museum using a well-known architect or other brands trying to work their HQ in a more contemporary manner. So I'm very intrigued and looking forward to hearing more about this new manufacturer. Yeah, I think he has to be a little bit careful what he promises. I was a suggestion that if I wanted Langline to come and play the piano with me before I buy my watch, it would happen. I don't know whether that's going to be very easy to talk with him. I already sent him an email to say I'm meeting for the invitation. Yeah, I'd love to have a kick about with Luis Figo. I think nonetheless, the principle behind it, I think, is really sound and no doubt they will be able to arrange something similar to that if not that for certain clients. I think it's also really interesting that they will be integrating that with this idea of creating bespoke watches, which is, I think, it's going to be a big trend in the industry over the next five years or so, as brands looked at the very high net worth customers to try and generate big sales. But one of the things that he and I have talked about, not just in our conversation today, but in the last few months is about this idea of creating bespoke watches, because it's not about volume at the moment. This is clear that all the industry statistics over the last 10 years are shown that volume is less and less important. Volume is more and more important. So I think this is a, it's very much a long-term project. I suspect that when they broke ground on the building three years ago or something like that, they weren't expecting to find themselves in the position they're in now and the industry in the position it's now. But they've got to think for the long term. There is, as we said in the interview with him, value in the real, the tangible and the human, and this facility has the capacity to deliver that for them. The other point that I found quite interesting is the only brand you mentioned as a competitor was like Panerai with the Paneristy analogy. Yeah, that was interesting. You know, it was kind of well known that when Jean-Claude Biver was at the helm of Bublot, he was making some unexpected moves. One of them is an anecdote that has been circulating around probably from 2006, 2007. Maybe we mentioned it during the podcast at some point was that there were like some people having expensive lunch in Centrope. And apparently Jean-Claude Biver noticed that one of the guests at the UBLO, so he went and paid a bill. We thought them knowing and everyone started speaking about the fact that I got invited by Jean-Claude Biver because I'm a UBLO owner. And I think what is very clever is all this idea of UBLO T-star and people who are passionate about the brand and so on. It seems that Julien is really moving forward with this idea of a community-driven approach for UBLO and this idea of like developing UBLO T-star and developing like mannequin by experiences around the different like celebrities and so on. And I think if that's executed well and I'm pretty sure they will be able to execute it well, it has some obviously important potential. Yeah, I liked what he said about the internal community too and he talked about Les Enfanté Rieble. This, I don't know whether it's a division or whether it's just an idea or a concept that he's introduced with his employees. But that would be UBLO doing what it does best. I think there's a difficult balance to strike here. I think UBLO needs to find his happy place, which is probably somewhere between the excesses and at the time's borderline vulgarity of the first 10 years of the Jean-Claude Bébéra era and the rather more sober version of the brand we've seen in the past few years. When UBLO is at its best when it's disruptive, when it's a bit rebellious, when it's doing things differently and when it's being unique as Bébéra was used to say. Yeah, there are too many brands that do Swiss conservatism very well. We don't need any more of those, really. But the industry does need a brand that attracts. The entrepreneurs, the visionaries, in some cases, to lose cannons. There are people who are going to move faster and break things, as often being said. So I'm interested to see what ideas come out of Laison Frontier, but I think it could be an interesting season. And we know maybe some of the new project product and so on will help them to consolidate the advance that Julien mentioned they had developed in India. I think that was kind of an interesting element as well, to see that he was also looking further to a new potential though, I think, in Delhi. Yeah, that's obviously quite a recent development for him, isn't it? And he's obviously clocked that India has a lot of potential for the brand and that it's growing quite quickly out there. I think you've got some fairly interesting data around interest in heublo in India, that you at DLG have gathered. What have you seen? Basically, the growth of heublo in India seems to be strong. And it seems that the brand is getting some momentum in India. So I was not fully surprised to see that Julien is going to capitalize and the brand is going to capitalize even more on this market. Yeah, and I think there will be many other brands that follow. One of the things that's interesting about heublo, I suppose, as far as India is concerned, is that it makes watches from materials which have this lasting enduring quality which is we discussed on the podcast before, particularly with the CEO of Titan last year. It really works in India. The giving culture is very strong out there. And if you're giving a watch, which is made of a ceramic or in heublo's case, of a gold which is designed, never to lose it's a lure, then it has enormous potential to be very successful. And I think you know one of the things that I've made heublo also, the success it became beyond obviously like the talent of Jean-Claude Biver and the different elements linked to the fusion of materials, is also the fact that this was a watch that was highly recognizable. It was extremely easy to spot someone with a new blow. So my guess is that in some markets that are still very status oriented, there is like an important potential to make sure that the big bang become again, I would say the cult object that he used to be. And he does the potential for that. It sounds like they've got some plans to revamp it this year, but also to focus quite heavily on the classic fusion and to introduce some watches that can be considered as more typically sophisticated I suppose. And you're right to have an icon like the big bang in your collection. There aren't many CEOs out there who would decline the opportunity to have something like that in their arsenal. Elvie made to watch week. It's just around the corner as well as we record and we'll be in full fly by the time we land. What's your expectation of an event like that? Do you think it matters? Do you think it's necessary? I think ideally my expectation would be one of the new AI design watch by Julio. And yeah, how does a CEO influence watch look like? But maybe that's not going to be the answer. No, on a more serious note, I think it's very interesting that they selected Milan for the different reason that we're discussing during the PUD. I'm the impression that being at the center of like cities such as Milan that are really at the crossroad between like fashion and obviously luxury are something extremely important. And I'm quite interested in seeing because he's absolutely right about the love relationship between the Italians and watch brands. And I think there is a question of how a brand like UBLO can get more traction into the Italian market. Where it was, as he said, originally always very successful because of its Italian founder. Yeah, for me, having made watch week a rise quite a difficult time for the group. And when we can't really add much to the story today, but there's course has been rumours and there's been gossip about what's happening at a C-suite level in the group. And that rumours of potential sales are various brands and bits of pieces of the group. We're not going to add anything to that. But it's nonetheless, it's a good time to have an event because it hands the impetus to all the image into its brands in a season where actually there's not a huge amount going on in the industry. But it's interesting too because as we discussed on this podcast many times before and as we'll be known to people who follow the industry, sales are down, profits are down. The horizon is not exactly broken by beams of light at the moment. And I'll be in Milan and I'm going to be very interested to read the air, do by watch week, as we noted in the last season, captured some very different spirit. And it was a spirit of the region, really. This front foot can do. Let's go ahead and make some money sort of spirit that we recognize in the Middle East and then do buy in particular. It didn't have help, of course, that it was held outdoors in November. Well, that was very nice too. But Milan in January will be different. But the event is much smaller and really only targets the trade, the press, top customers and so on. But how the group and its leaders present themselves and the notes that they strike will set the tone for their year and even for the industry's year. It's a big pressure moment for the group, I'd say. I think they need a good year and they need a good album age watch week. David, before we go, any final thoughts from you? Let's enjoy these contagious positive energy from this interview and on with the show. Yes, on with the show, David, it's been a pleasure as always. I will talk to you soon. Thank you for listening to the Luxury Society podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode and would like to hear more, don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to go deeper into any of these topics, check out luxurysociety.com where you'll find stories, insights and profiles that unpack what's going on in the world of luxury right now. I've been your host, Robyn Swithenbank, and this has been the Luxury Society podcast available on Apple, Spotify, anywhere you get your podcasts.