030: Thyroid Health Matters: Preconception, Pregnancy, Postpartum with Dr. Christine Maren

[Music] Welcome to the Total Soccer Show and the glorious return of Take It All Leave It. It's the show where we get your hot soccer takes and we take them. Or we leave them. It's that simple. On this episode we're getting your spicy opinions on Real Madrid's trophilist future, Christian Pulisic's imminent national team retirement and so much more. Oh boy, my name's Ryan Bailey. Joining me today is the Taylor Whart Quell. Taylor, to quote your favorite band, Stain. It's been a while since we did take it all leave it. Hey, feeling? Oh, that's a phenomenal sandbag of an introduction. I'm feeling great, Ryan Bailey. I'm a little bit apprehensive because I think Joe and Graham are going to bring it on this episode and a few of my answers are like, take but leave but leave but take. I'm a little bit murky on a couple. We'll see how it goes. Believe in yourself, Taylor, we do. I do. After your interview with Coach Beard, I have believed written in Sharpie on my wall. Is that what I was supposed to do? Yes. I understood it to be the case. So don't be a go-fish, try and remember things. Is a good answer. Impossible. Okay, very good. Hello, Joe Lowry. How are you? Yeah, sorry. I thought we were supposed to tattoo, believe so that's what I did. I tattooed it on. Well, we'll just, I will leave it. I tattooed it. We'll leave it at that. If you've been watching the movie "Memento" by Christopher Nolan, per chance. Yes. And I've seen that movie and it was really good. You know, I did watch a movie. I went to see the movie last night. I saw a project Hail Mary finally. Oh, I thought it was fantastic. I cried. It was lovely. Nice. Devil Where's Prada too? No. No. Although I'm down. Was it a save-out? I could see it. Joe, was it akin to when Captain Holt in "Brook the Nine-Nine" is crying watching "Money Ball" because like this statistical analysis is so beautiful to him? Were you just amazed by like the calculations? How did he calculate how to make that make that run? Yeah. That's exactly what it was to like. I can't even describe it in any different way. Excellent. Love it. Graham Ruffin, how are you wearing a lovely Garner shirt? Which how YouTube followers would be able to see? I am indeed. I'm collecting them for the World Cup. I'm trying to get as many of my preview teams as I can. That's just where the expanded World Cup format is not helping me. But I'm quite far along now. So Garner was one I didn't have. So I added them to the collection the other day. It's quite wild, isn't it? Like, kind of, Joe, how did you describe it? Like spider-man from. Yeah, it looks like Spider-Man web crossed with the subway map in New York City. Like, that's very much the vibe I'm getting. I'll take the yellow line to the crats. Thank you very much. Graham? Graham doesn't get to answer this question. It's for Ryan and Joe. Got it. What is the percentage likelihood? Like 100% being it's definitely happening. That Graham is telling his wife and family that he has to buy every single jersey for every single team he's previewing. You guys are forcing me. The TSS policy. Because that feels like a thing that might be occurring. Yes, it does. But at the same time, do we think Graham's made it this long in his marriage without his wife just knowing that he's going to buy a Kint' Rolls. She knows. I think this comes with the territory. Like, I don't think excuses need to be made here for Graham. You should see her, Joe's E-collection. It's crazy. Yeah, exactly. She's an ice hockey. She's got the big shoulder-pad ones and she's got a whole room as well. That's the thing. Wonderful. I do concern myself sometimes that we are navelers of Graham's behaviour here. But I mean, you're totally are. They're sure it's like, I would not have bought this shirt if I didn't have to preview Ganna and New Zealand. They've got that one the other day as well. I'm not complaining. There you go. World Cup previews on the horizon, by the way. The World Cup less than a month away. You know what else is less than a month away? Us Gents heading to Los Angeles, California. We're going to be doing our World Cup coverage from LA for the group stage. And we've got a live show on June 11th. It is called TSS World Cup Live. It is at the L-Rate theatre on Walshaw, the Lovard. We'll share. And Hollywood. We're looking forward to it very much. Graham, few seats left, right? That's right. TSSWorldCup.com to get tickets. It's been great hearing from people who are coming along. Elena or Alana. Excuse me if I've got that incorrect. Alana Botnar got in touch to say they're going to two USA games in Los Angeles, which is exciting. And they are coming along with some friends to the live show. And also this was part of Alana's email. Quote, I was truly disturbed to hear about Joe's packing habit. Have it. And was 100. And was 100% on your side that is appropriate to capital letters. Brinkles when traveling. So I may have lost the biscuits battle, but I sense that I may have won the packing war. Good job, Graham. People's champion. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see you in packs better. We'll find out. Okay. Well, there's some Patreon bonus content for us. The inside of Joe's tiny carry on case. What does he bring? I think someone else messaged me or maybe it was in the Discord. I can't quite remember to say is Joe just vacuum packing everything. Like he's going to have to pump everything up when he gets to LA. I just I I don't we've done this whole thing before. I still don't understand. I've made no ground in comprehending this issue. We're just going to have to figure that in person. There we go. We do know Graham's bringing a minimum of 48 shirts to California. You'll see one of them at least. Unless he Joe Trebyani's it on stage. And the will on real shit at the L.A. theater. We're very much looking forward to it. Tssworldcup.com. As Graham said, if you'd like to get a ticket and join us there, it will be fun. Let's get to our takes. This is take it or leave it as as advertised. We're going to take or leave the following. This is the first one from Rusty who left this in our Discord. Rammadrid will go trophilis for a minimum of two more seasons, as long as the current setup is in place where the inmates run the asylum and have direct contact with Florentino Perez. Taylor, I feel inclined to leave this because I haven't looked at the numbers but have Rammadrid ever gone three seasons without winning anything? No. Feel like likely. There you go. Leave for me. They've never gone three seasons without winning something. That's correct. I googled that last night. They had it. They had it. They had it. They had it. Thank you for doing the work. I couldn't be bothered to do Graham. Yeah, shout out Graham. Yeah, they've gone two seasons. The last time they went two seasons was 2005, 2006 before this current stretch that they're in right now. I believe they had a 17 season run where they won at least a trophy every single year. Yeah, they went lots of stuff. Rammadrid. They went lots of stuff. Does that include like, I'm going to remove Copa Del Rey from this. So it's basically La Liga or Champions League. I'm assuming that's still roughly still applies. But I'm largely taking this, even with all that said, even with history being against me. And I think a key way to get out of it is that as long as the current setup is in place, and maybe if one or two players are sold, that does bring some level of balance, or at least it is fewer people going directly to Florentino Perez to complain about everything that's happening. But I think as long as you have as many high profile names as they do, without a manager who is clearly being backed to control the locker room and have sway and say over the locker room, I don't see why this would change. I don't see how it would change. And honestly, I don't think Jose Maria changes it. I know he has a reputation, the reputation. I know he's been there before, but it still feels like the age old things that people used to criticize Jose Maria are going to be even more largely accentuated this time around. I don't really see it working out. So if it doesn't, maybe that's another season without trophies. And then you just need one more to get you to the two. So I will go ahead and take this one. I look forward to what my co-hosts have to say. Graham's making the noise. I think I'm making there as well. I think another point I'll make Graham is that dips in LaLiga seem to be short-lived. Like there wasn't that long ago when we thought Barcelona, oh, they put in any levels. They're a disaster. They're going to go down the toilet very soon. And then they just go and win everything very shortly afterwards. So I feel like we tend to have a lot of hyperbole when dealing with rail and Barcelona. Yeah, and I was going to leave this one partly because of what you just said there, Ryan. Like Real Madrid have never gone three seasons in a rule without winning something. I just think the level of Real Madrid that they're always going to have. Like they're rich and they are attractive. What are you? Are you adding baskets to the cookies to the equation? Lurgers, which cracker? What's happening? Sorry. It doesn't have the T-no. He's added. What was that, man? You have to enlighten us now. What do you call that? Like a rich tea biscuit? Yeah, a rich tea biscuit. Yeah, like a bread biscuit. We are one month away from the butler showing up live on air. Taylor's muted and that's really getting involved in this kind of one. Just really kind of wish. I'm missing Ryan muted himself because a dry cracker on Mike is just yeah for audio. I won't do that again. I want you to add some caramel to it to really make everybody involved. Oh, God. Anyway, back to Real Madrid. I was going to leave it for all the reasons that you said, Ryan. But then Taylor has actually read this question properly where the second part is key as long as this current set up is in place. And that was a big part of why I was leaving this was I think of this madness process for another 12 months. Some context here that we haven't actually spoken about on the show this week is Florentino Perez is crazy press conference given on Monday or Tuesday where he challenged others to run for election against him made some very questionable comments in one or two places and did not come across as someone who was in full fully in control of the situation currently at Real Madrid. The sound of that grand it was a while press conference. It felt like another world leader I can think of in the way. Yeah, quite positive in those circumstances. I think I've heard of it. Yeah, Keir Starmer has known for those press conferences. It's really troubling that I can't make an obvious joke. Like I ran through all the leaders that came off the top of my head and there was no like, "Ah yes, that stoic individual that we all love and respect, who then I could like go the opposite being true." Instead, it's just every leader saying. It's just true for real, for real. Yeah. So that's the key context behind Real Madrid right now. And so I think of this madness process for another 12 months, they will be quite ruthless in sailing at least one of the big names. And I've always said that's what the outcome here is going to be. Vinicius would be my bet because of the way his contract talks have stalled. And I think ultimately Real Madrid will have to choose between Vinicius and Ibapi. And when it comes to that, I predict they'll pick Ibapi despite everything. But if it persists, excuse me for another two seasons, then I don't really see why anything would change. I think you're absolutely right, Taylor. So actually, I've been convinced I might now take this one. So sorry, can I real quick ask a question about, what do we define as the current setup? Like, when you're answering that question, what does that include? Is that parés? Is that, but like, what does that mean? Parés is president. They're sort of fluids, non-descript front office that they have, where nobody really is in charge, the revolving door of managers. And then the key part is the players that they currently have, which they can't like adjust the squad at all. That, yeah, if they're not going to make any transfers, sure, I'll take this. I was thinking about this in the context of, they can make some changes in the squad, but parés are still going to be, I mean, this press conference was insane, by the way. Like a 30 minute monologue, multiple offensive things were said. Like, the dude needs not be in that role anymore. So that, I think, is very, very clear. But if we can actually make, like, he never seems to go away. Yeah. Unless there is some larger, much larger scandal, it seems like that happens. Yes. Just to jump into the current stuff is in place where the inmates run the asylum and have direct contact with parés. I wouldn't say that pertains to transfers. So I can, I can make transfers then. I would say so. OK, then I'm leaving this because I think, I think there are obvious areas where the squad does need to improve. And as chaotic as Rommadrid are, they are not stupid in their ability to identify those sorts of areas. Right? So I think first and foremost, center back is a known area of need for Rommadrid. I believe we've talked about this on the show before. Rudegar and Alba can't stay fit and they're both 33. Like it's time for those guys to not be two of your four primary center backs. We all know how much grand loves Rala Senceo, his next Eric Garcia. There needs to be more talent in that part of the field. Rommadrid surely know that and they will find a way to sign a center back. If not more than one, I think they need a technician deeper in midfield. Chemovinga to many Jude, Belingham, like none of those guys are quite in that mold. And I think they need someone to help orchestrate some play from deeper and build up. I think they need someone to help break lines when they are camped out against a low block. And then obviously there is the elephant in the room, which is the vinescia junior and bapa thing, which I think has outsized importance. But I think even if that dynamic doesn't change and it's in bapa and vinescia junior, we saw that hit some highs in the champions league. I think if the structure around them gets a little bit better, not from Jose because that's not going to happen. But from the talent that is in this team and it will be added to this team, I think Rommadrid can win a, I'm thinking about Copa Del Rey, the league and the champion's league, by the way. It's sort of the three that actually would count here. I think in the next two seasons, they will likely get one of those. If they make those changes to the squad and I think they will. So I think they will win a trophy and I will leave this. Joe, I'm wondering if you've in your mind, like mentally addressed the managerial aspect of this. Like I know you talked about Jose there, but like to your point, like yeah, they can sign fitter center backs. They've tried to do that a little bit. They could try to sign to like more creative or like technically, tactically useful central midfielders, but you still have to have a coach who like can get everybody on the same page and make sure everybody's playing the same way and kind of bring in a style or philosophy in my mind. And that was Javier Lanzo and a man who is like very respected as a coach, very respected as the player, very respected as a like Rommadrid figure. And yet he is unceremoniously shown the door when the players are not pleased with him. That's what I keep going back to is like, yeah, you can make those signings. You can add more talent. They did that in the off season. But it still feels to me like, how do you get everybody to kind of pull in the same direction and not go crying to Daddy Perez when the coach says, hey, you're not going to play this game because we're resting you for the next one. Or hey, we want to try this different formation. It doesn't really put you where you want to be, but we want to try you here. That's the one that I keep kind of tripping up on is how do you navigate that level of ego and control? Well, it's is the answer not Rommadrid navigated almost every year. Like, I don't know, maybe the answer is they need a new modulator or new crost to sort of be a little bit of an internal leader who is going to keep a tie to lead on things inside the locker room. But this is Rommadrid, right? This is how Fiorentino Perez goes about constructing his team with personalities like this. And they always manage, they always seem to find a way to manage those things. So I think it's clear that Shabia Lanzo wasn't liked because he wanted to actually do some tactical stuff. Okay, fine. Ancholade ends Adon once champions links with that doing tactical stuff. So this goes against what I believe and how I would go about building a team for sure. But I don't think we can say that it's like an impossible thing for Rommadrid to do or to solve for because they really do it all the time. Yeah. I found a lot to change the squad to make transfers. I would leave this one. But what is kind of pushing me or making me give me a second thought is Barcelona are really strong at the moment. It was like that, that core of players, yeah, they need a central defender and they need a center forward. And those are key positions. I accept that. But they still have that core of young Esch players together that feels like they're going to be there for the next like eight seasons. And if this was Barcelona of three, four years ago, then I'd think, well, Real Madrid's talent will get them over the line. They win a cup of del Rey. They might even win a league. But with Barcelona looking as good as they are, I just feel like Real Madrid, they need something. They need to be more cohesive. Real Madrid, we all know on their day. They can be any team in the world with the talent that they have. That's just the way it is on an individual basis, on an individual level. But I just think to consistently perform against the best teams, the highest caliber opponent, particularly over a league season, over 38 games. They need to have more. And I looking at that team right now, I just don't know where that's coming from. I don't think it's coming from the president. I don't think it's coming from the sporting director. I don't think it's coming from Joe Simrino and I don't think it's coming from the players. So that's where I think there's an issue. Graham, it's funny. As you started to talk, the last thing I wrote down on my notes is I think the most likely way they turn it around, Ramadred is if Barcelona let you get in their own way. And I think you've kind of landed on the same conclusion, which is basically that as long as those two are kind of functioning at their present level. I think it's hard for Ramadred to kind of gain a foothold gain momentum. If the season starts well, which, less we forget, it did this season. And maybe like Barcelona seemed to be imploding or players are injured or there's infighting or what have you, I think Ramadred can be a very like confidence-based vibes are good. Winning keeps happening sort of club. But I think that does require others to make mistakes. All right. Rusty, very interesting take. Thank you very much. We take a quick break. And when we come back, we're talking about Spurs Religation and how it's helping the health of the Premier League. Hmm. Join us then. Hi, I'm Joel from the New York Times Games team. I'm out here talking to people about games. What's your favorite game? The Mini Connections. Very classified. Uh, Strans. What's your vibe when you're playing one of our games? It makes me feel like I'm procrastinating in a really productive way. It just scratches and itch in my brain. All of these games are so fun because it's like a little, I've to 10 minute break. I love these games. Yeah. You can play all New York Times games at nytimes.com/games or in our games out. Total soccer show, welcome back to taking all of it or teo-ly as none of the cool kids are calling it. This one is from JCO 54. Spurs being relegated would be tied with lester winning the title as the best thing to happen to the long term health of the Premier League since its creation. Hmm. Having a big 16 who attempted to join the Super League be relegated indicates that finances don't control everything and truly shows that anything can happen. Joe. That one got me in the second half, I think. That question to be honest because it started. It really is that good for the health of the Premier League for a big team to go down. But when you have it in the context of the fact that it's defying the long held ten in soccer that finances control everything, then it's interesting. It is. I had a similar reaction of it got me in the second half but for a different reason which is, I think initially when I'm reading this take, Spurs and Lester sort of being mentioned in the same sentence, my initial reaction is to toss it out because lester winning the title is one of the all time greatest sports stories. It's like in the in the pantheon. It's ridiculously good. Spurs getting relegated is not that right. I don't think that that has the same appeal from a narrative perspective. But from an impact perspective and from what it shows about the Premier League, I'll take it. Like I do think that these things are operating in a relatively similar area because both of them do exactly what JCO 504 is talking about. They show that the finances are not controlling everything. Now, the thing I'll quibble with is nobody really believes that finances control everything. Right? That's not a thing that people think. We do believe that they play a big role and that of course is true and they still play a big role in the Premier League. But I'll take this and broaden it out and just say how much I appreciate the general rise and competitiveness and as a result, unpredictability that we're seeing in the Premier League. It is not being a super dramatic rise over the last decade. It's more blips over the initial bit of the decade and now we're seeing a little bit more of a trend, which is it's not just spurs being bad or less start winning the title. It's Chelsea struggling. It's Manchester United struggling. It's Villa's hot start this year and their ability to hang on the top five. It's born with, you know, it's these teams that are showing that the middle of the Premier League is more competitive. And I think that comes as a result of sorry, more money hitting the middle of the league and not just the top big six teams like there is so much money now and all of the good players outside of the absolute elite clubs and the rest of Europe are ending up in the Premier League. That's a bit hyperbolic, but so many of them are joining the league that I think you are seeing more competitiveness as a result in Tottenham's problems, which are largely brought on by injury, but also organizational instability, bad roster building, bad performances, all those things. If a team, even a team with as much financial cloud as Tottenham relative to a lot of the other teams on the planet, if they have that perfect storm of crappiness, yeah, they can be threatened with relegation not one, but two seasons in a row. So I will take this as someone who enjoys a more competitive, more balanced league that is less predictable. And I think that's what both lester and spurs have showed us. Joe clarifying question that I promise is not meant to be like, well, but do you mean this because I'm genuinely curious, you're saying you don't think finance is control everything, but then simultaneously saying to my understanding that there's so much money in the Premier League that basically everybody has like crazy amounts of money to spend. So in that way, don't finance is control everything because it's the money that has created the relative parity. I suppose that maybe more so what I was pushing back on that is like we've always known that lester is a possible story like it's not like these things have ever been an impossibility. Even if you have all the money in the world for your top team and the bottom team is like a scrappy group of upstarts, there's still a world in which that scrappy group of upstarts goes and wins the title. That has always been a possibility. It's not like finances had this complete iron unbreakable grip on us. It's just not how life works. I suppose that like exaggeration as well as pushing back on, but tell your points spot up. Joe, is that not a post lester realization because I would contest like before lester it did feel impossible. I never ever ever before lester thought I would see a team like lester city win the league. And so that's partly why I'm absolutely taking this because I think lester city was one of the most powerful things to happen to the Premier League brand. Even if it's not actually true, this idea that the Premier League is more competitive or for a lot of time it's not been more competitive city of one six of the last eight titles and yet we think of the Premier League as this division where there are more potential challengers for the title. It doesn't really ring true when you look at the other big five leagues and I think lester played a massive part in that and to have lesser extent admittedly but still to the degree I think Spurs going downwards would add to that brand. So I am definitely taking taking this just because when you look at other big five leagues like there have been big teams have gone down another big five leagues, Schalken, Hamburg and the Bindesliga, Malaga and Spain often feels like there needs to be some sort of financial tailspinner like exterior factors for the external factors for those teams to suffer relegation Spurs haven't really had that they generate a huge amount of revenue. They're ninth in the Deloitte football league table which I just looked up. They make the fifth most amount of money of any Premier League side. They've got that huge new stadium. They've got tremendous training facility. They've spent money in the transfer market. I just think there's no way they would go down on another big five league but as you say like the Premier League middle class is so strong that the margins are thinner than ever before and I think Spurs going down just really hammers home that point. Another clarifying question. Haven't we previously discussed like our Spurs a big club quote unquote. Oh, that's again. Where do we land though? Yes, I don't know if I'm the guy to ask I seem to have a lower bar for what's a big club. Absolutely a big club in my eyes, but I don't know what that consensus is fair enough. I think I'm leaving this one in the end and I think I'm leaving it because like if this makes sense, like Spurs have never been the villains at any point to me. And there have been many other teams in the Premier League that have been like a team you root against me Manchester United have been that for many, many people. I think Arsenal have been that for at least a few like a brown which is Chelsea definitely so certain Liverpool sides Manchester City presently with the money they can spend and the citations rules they can break like all of those feel like they have kind of more of a like villainous backstory such that if they were to be real. They were to be relegated it would feel like see that's what happens when you overspend and you don't run yourself well and you like like there would be I think more of a like example of those teams going down whereas Spurs at times have felt more so like a team that's trying to compete with those like almost like they want to be a villain in the same way like maybe Newcastle when they start spending some money maybe like Blackbird in the 90s there bent leads at a certain point. We've seen time and time again in the Premier League teams like spending in an aspirational way to try to crack into the top four or the top five of the top six or however many ends up being and then sort of that blowing up in their face or not being able to keep keep pace and we've seen that in other leagues as well. On some level to me it feels like yeah it's kind of like another tale of the biggest one to maybe do it I think they end up staying up but like it still would feel more like yeah that's kind of what happens in the Premier League when you try to compete with like the proper villains you might end up getting kind of churned up and spit out the other end and I think that's kind of what's happened to them whereas Lister is truly just a historic moment that did sort of change my understanding of how the Premier League can work. Yeah but Taylor I feel like I can use that argument which I don't necessarily disagree with I can use that argument to take this take where Spurs are not going to be missed and then I think that adds to that and I don't mean that as an insult like I think of my sitting or relegated or arsenal of relegated the Premier League is so strong as a whole that I don't think next season any of us if Spurs go down are thinking oh man this season just doesn't up to much because one of the big six one of the big traditional big six is in as in this league and so it just feels like that adds to the idea that everyone's expendable even if that's not totally true like even if the Premier League is I guess weaker for not having another big team in it for having a Southampton over Spurs and the division next season just feel like it adds to the perception that nobody is safe and yeah nobody actually changes the brand of the whole if that makes any sense. I think that that tracks for me until the big go back to a question about are they a big club I suppose it depends a little bit on how you want to define it of course because that is kind of a meaningless sort of term that we just use but I went and looked at the latest Deloitte money leaks and what goes and I believe that your figures they are ninth yeah and revenue from 2024 to 25 so it does it makes you think makes it yeah. No it's in the delight money right. You'll never think that that's like I do think Spurs or big club I think that's where like the villain angle comes in because I think a lot of times people have asked me like I'm getting into soccer I want to kind of follow a Premier League team who should I support and broadly my answers for the last like decade have been taught number Liverpool basically and taught them because like no was ever going to accuse you of being a glory hunter but they are not going to be a big club. They have a nice stadium they're in London they had potch like that was kind of my answer when they had potch they they have felt like a team that are like enjoyable to have in the Premier League including for St. Todd are going to stay and occasionally shooting themselves in the foot and making curious decisions but then also because they they have played like fun attacking soccer at times less so recently. It just it wouldn't feel quite like oh wow like if Chelsea went down that would be the most like oh wow like anybody can go even if you spend all the money in the world if you get it wrong if you think you're smarter than everybody else in the room. Those chickens can definitely come home to roost with Spurs it just feels like they tried to spend a lot of money they didn't spend it particularly well they had a bunch of injuries they kept changing their coach all of that just feels like stuff we've seen before all be it. At our larger level but we're not talking about a team that have won the Premier League of the Champions League anytime recently you know so it's it's that's where I think it falls down a little bit if we saw a perennial top four top five favorite go down which maybe you could argue taught them are at this point I don't think I would put them there I think that would be the difference maker for me it's basically if Chelsea went down. Okay, they're tracking for that. We'll see JC 54 we appreciate your heart take thank you very much we take one more quick break here when we come back we're talking about fouls in the box not being penalties and Christian puller six usm and T retirement what join us then. So to talk a show working back to take it all leave it we dip into our discord where MJ has left this hot take not all fouls committed in the box should result in penalties if some fouls in the box were to result in indirect free kicks or a different sort of punishment I'm open to other options both players and referees would approach play in the box differently since not every foul whistle on a defender will result in a free shot at goal. Graham I'll say technically this is already the case because you can have indirect free kicks inside the box for like back passes and stuff right so technically this is true but I am I'm taking this because I think lot of these agree just accidental is hand balls that we see I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime for these generally speaking we've seen some these in the chamois league recently as well so I would say I'll an indirect free kick would be suitable for that and also indirect free kicks in the box are awesome correct great so I want to see more pure chaos. Yeah, um, well I'm gonna have to hold myself back today and answer this question given what happened last night in a sir totally legit officiating. Well, yeah, for a handball, it was fair punishment to then give Kaleccio and actually a free shot from 12 yards out to potentially decide the title race in Scotland. Yes, I'm taking this one because and I'm trying to remain rational here because I am I am simmering to date about what happened last night. I am increasingly of the of the opinion that soccer is a bit broken in this sense. The way that penalties are awarded for the tiniest little thing, handballs that are possibly handballs, possibly not handballs. We seem to spend so much of our time as football fans analyzing whether there was like a slight brush of contact or whether a hand was in an unnatural position. And then for the punishment to be a clear shot and go from 12 yards, it's just so disproportionate. So yes, I think something big needs to change. The best solution for me would be like the quickest fix for me would be to get rid of VAR, but I'm not going to labor that point. Listeners know how I feel about that. And by the way, I feel like the not just because the last night, I wrote my notes before last night, but I've got it in my notes. The tide is turning on VAR. Premier League rejected expanding VAR. And earlier this week last week, the FL rejected it as well. Ryan, I don't know if you saw that story that would have affected Wimbledon. And it's been voted down in Scandinavia as well. Fans hate it, referees hate it, players hate it, managers hate it. And I don't really understand who it's for at this point. And we were told it was it would get better technology companies. Well, maybe, but like has it got better? We were told these things would be refined. If anything, I think it's getting worse. Anyway, that's me done my soapbox. But if I can't get rid of VAR, then yes, some form of real change, simplification of the rule at the very least would be appreciated. And I think indirect free kicks. And I accept like the application of indirect free kicks would then become a discussion point. You can you're never going to get rid of all discussion. But I feel like this would strip back at least something from the debate that has just become so tedious these last few years. Graham, before I say my thing, could you cite a statistic that's really helpful in informative? So I could then repeat it like two minutes afterwards. Could you go ahead and do them from a financial power. Maybe like the delight money. I think if we could pull that off every segment, that could become a really nice. I go on here. The Deloitte Money League says VAR bad. It's good. Reds no. That's what I found out. Zero percent that a consultancy said that VAR is bad. Zero chance. That feels like they're wheelhouse. I'm impressed that Graham managed to turn this into a VAR conversation. So I'm not going to do anything into a VAR discussion this morning. I think anything to not get himself in trouble with like British libel and I don't know, slander laws. I think is what he's trying to do to avoid going off on a full-on rant about plucky underdogs Celtic and how they finally got a helping hand. Yeah. I just I just think Graham, you turn that into a handball rule problem and I like a rules parsing problem and not what the take is about, which is it's about disproportionate punishment as I read it anyway. Yeah, that's a fail, right? Handballs are still fails. Yeah, but one part. I took the most egregious part and the bet that annoys me the most. Yeah, we know. My point is it seems to me that this this take is about does the punishment fit the crime? And in general, that could be handball could be a tackle whatever we handle rules of separate problem in my mind like it follows underneath this umbrella, but that's not what this is about. I think this is about if we want true justice, we should take this and we should say, well, that tackle in the edge of the box, that handball in the edge of the box, that handball, even on the edge of the six yard box, that's not going to result in a chance in the next few seconds. That is worth three quarters of a chance on goal, which is what a penalty is worth effectively. So I think if you want justice, you should take this, but also if you want justice, you have to acknowledge that means fewer goals. And not just because there's going to be fewer penalties. And you would be not just because there's going to be fewer penalties, but because there's going to a fundamental change in how defenders defend in the box. Think about this. Like if I could go and defend one of you one against Graham, Teccer's Graham and and not have to worry about, okay, if I fall on the edge of the box, like he's going to get a penalty, that's a huge problem for me as a defender. If I don't have to worry about that and all I'm conceding is an indirect free kick, which let's face it. Very, very low chances of scoring. Like sure, you're going to manufacture some sort of shot out of it, but it's going to be a shot where literally every opponent is inside the box. And they have a time to set up this defensive plan. So this would result in fewer goals, not just because there's fewer penalties. Who cares about that? I agree. But because there would be fewer defenders would not hold back inside the 18 anymore. They would have license to go and make more challenges in the 18 and be more reckless, which sure, reckless sounds cool. But you know, it's actually cooler than being reckless, having attackers be able to have space to score goals. So I am leaving this and it's not even a consideration for me. I agree that the punishment does not fit the crime, but the knock on effect of that injustice against defenders is that we get to watch a much more entertaining game inside the 18. So I'm fine with injustice. I'm leaving this. Is there such a thing as justice in modern soccer? Like does it? That's clearly. Well, this would make it more just and that's what I'm saying. It would be bad for all of us. I'm fine with injustice. Joe Lauer. Quote 26. I'm just trying to, there's a half baked response to my mind here that's not maybe not going to come out fully formed. I'm just trying to get my head around like, I wish. I wish. I wish more than anything. Graham just started like loving ad hominem accusations. It's a half big idea, but Joe, what you're saying is dumb and I hate it. Yeah, I don't know if that's Joe. What do you hate all about? No, like, I'm trying to get my head around the concept of the argument you're making that defenders would defend different. Right. And whether I care about that, like whether they make a foul, we're talking about the area of the box that they are, they are fouling a player. Yes. That doesn't change, right? Whether they are being reckless in that challenge or otherwise, if they make a foul on the edge of the box, there's still a very low chance that an attacking player is going to score from that position of the box. The closer you get to go, the less reckless they're going to, they're going to get. Like it was in the six yard box. They're not going to be as reckless. And so I kind of circle back around to, well, I'm not sure I care about that. Like, is it still, it still fixes that imbalance that we're talking about here? If the foul, let's say I'm defending one of you one against vicious junior, we'll make this more realistic. And he's getting closer and closer to goal. If we're in this MJ created scenario that Graham, you're backing. Like if he's inching closer and closer to my team's goal, why am I not just going to bring him down? Why am I not? Why am I supposed to? I suppose there would be some sort of, we're not talking about all fouls in the box, not being, or maybe we are. I wasn't looking at this as all fouls in the box, not being penalties. There would still be a bar where as a penalty, like if you absolutely clean someone out in the box. Yeah, sure. Sure. Like that would still be a penalty cake. That makes it more palatable. But I just, I don't know why we would want as a sport to give more leverage to defenders. Like I really, I don't, that doesn't make sense to me. Why would we not want the game? Why would we want fewer biometric PSG Champions League semi finals, Inter Barcelona Champions League semi finals? Why are we trying to make life easier for defenders and harder for attackers? Like, fundamentally, that's, I just don't agree with that because it's just so difficult to swallow such big outcomes, deciding title races. And it's not just the Celtic thing, Monday's weekend review. Like we had this whole discussion and that was a, that was a VAR review and I know it was a, actually, that wasn't a handball, right? That was a foul on the goalkeeper. So this absolutely would fall into what we're talking about here. That was a, that was an instance that I thought ultimately was the correct decision. I know Taylor, you had a different opinion. I still felt like, after watching that, soccer's broken in a sense. So I am absolutely in the headspace and in the mood for something to be done. And I think it needs to be, needs to be something big. Like it can't just be a tweak. I think we are looking at something way. And there have been big changes in soccer throughout the decades. You know, the back pass rule, VAR and itself was a massive thing. It does feel like we need a correction of some sort. So that's why I'm taking this. Taylor, do we have your title in this? I was going to take it for the, like the very simple reason Ryan is you that an indirect free kick in the box is just super fun. Always chaotic. Always create creates crazy moments. The thing I then run into is that if we're taking this question and the wording they're in as like gospel, then it's some fouls in the box result in indirect free kicks. I'm now realizing if Graham can't abolish VAR, aren't we just going to get like a thousand VAR checks a game? Oh, I'm sure he did that. And that was technically a direct free kick. So that should be not just VAR discourse. We're going to get also endless media referring discourse. Like, do we want to have to talk about more referring on the podcast? Even if VAR is abolished, like, oh, this foul happened right on the edge of the special indirect free kick penalty box. Like, oh, no, what, what side was he on? Let's argue about it. Like this just does. It's going to change just because we have a lot of VAR. As long as there's a light on the pitch, that's always going to be the case. But why would we add another line? Like, why are we having the, in this case, I'm imagining we have a box, the penalty box, 18 yard box, where we have that first box and we have maybe a 12 yard box. Then we have a six yard box. Like, you got to add another box to create a line to differentiate where the fouls are going to be penalties versus indirect free kicks. So you are adding in your, your admitting that you are okay with adding in another layer of referring discourse. And that makes it will always exist. But why would we, oh, I would add more of it. That blows my mind. What if we added another literal line? What if it was like from 15 yards out, then it's a penalty, but between 15 and 18 yards indirect free kick. Only in a full moon. All right. Should we, and only in months with 31 days, that's the other rule. Yeah, that's it. There we go. There we go. MJ, another stirring conversation from your take there. Thank you very much. Let's do one more hot take for this episode. And it's a doozy. This one is from Mangleram on Elmo's Hellscape. Sighting the overwhelming toll on his body, Christian Pulisic will retire from the USMNT after the World Cup. Ooh boy. Spicy. Oh, that is a spicy one. Taylor, is the inference here that the policy doesn't enjoy national team duties? I suppose it is. And I think that's informed by him like stepping away last summer so that he could be exciting exhaustion until he could be in better form for this season and then be ready for the World Cup. And now here we are. But then I think he also kind of comes under a lot of scrutiny. He seems to be a player that is discussed quite a bit and is in the spotlight pretty often. And then at the same time, kind of similar to Landon Donovan, which is ironic to say about a guy who's on TV all the time. Policy doesn't really seem like he loves the spotlight at the same time. He's never struck me as a guy who wants to be the man. He's always struck me as a guy who feels like he was kind of thrusted of the spotlight and told you will be the man because nobody else can do it. And it feels like that's been the case for him from a very early age where he goes through the disappointment of not qualifying in 2018 to being a central figure in 2022. And now we would assume being the man, the figure for the US in 2026. I do get where this is coming from, but I think ultimately he still is a guy who loves playing for the United States. He's got the Eagle tattoo. I think he enjoys being an American. I think he enjoys playing for the US national team. So even though I think he gets a lot of criticism, I don't think he retires, but I do understand where this question is coming from. And I do think maybe after the World Cup, he doesn't get called up for a little while and get sort of an extended hiatus. If not quite, they'll leave a vapsense to Donovan Head. - Okay. - Joe, you thoughts? - Yeah, I'm leaving this. I think, I think, I think, a lot of his teammates really likes playing for the US. Like I really think that. I don't think that his little time off for the US last summer was anything more than I feel completely broken and run down. And I need to be able to take this time so that I can give more in the future as frustrating as that whole situation was. I think that, I do think looking back that that's what it was. I always think about Eunice Musa's quote after a camp and this was back in the end of the last cycle sometime where he said, "It's not as long as I'd like talking about these camps. It's really nice to bond with guys and when camp is over, you kind of miss them." I think there are a lot of players that really like each other here. I think, I think, gets to kind of be one of the boys and other-- - And they both grew up together. - Yeah, right. - They've been in camp for such a long time. - Yeah, absolutely. And I think, "Policyc" isn't a different category because he is the name people know, right? Even if you could make an argument, like, "Is he really better than Western McKenny at this point?" I don't know, hard to say. I think the most important stuff on the field of the SC probably is and that means that he is going to be talked about in this way that it's different from the rest of his teammates. But even he's talked about that, right? He gets asked about pressure ahead of the workup all the time by folks and our pals in the media. And he talks about how like, "You guys want me to feel pressure?" And I suppose I do feel some pressure, but the quote is, "I feel privileged to be in this position." There's pressure, but I feel privileged to be in that position. I genuinely think that's how he feels. So I don't anticipate "Policyc" fading away from the national team consciousness anytime soon. I also imagine, surely he's driven to be the USMT goat, right? Like, I don't think anybody really thinks he's that in a undispeed of fashion yet, but I think if he gave it another cycle or two, he would be. I don't disagree with you. I think with everything we know about him, and this might be like a me thing. I still don't think I have a good read on who he is. Yeah, it's really good. And what he wants. So yeah, I would assume that's the case, Joe, 'cause that's what you would assume. Yeah, I am assuming, certainly. Most players who played as low, I think it's a safe assumption, but I think I paused 'cause I'm like, "I don't know." He seems like he doesn't love the spotlight. He seems like he's kinda like, "Yeah, I'll play, "but then I'm gonna go play with my club, "and then I'm gonna go play." It doesn't seem to be this like, rallying point the way it has been for others, and the most important thing for him the way it was for other players. But then I probably would have said it was for Landon Donovan, but he takes sabbaticals and has talked publicly about how sometimes it wasn't. So I don't know. Yeah, I would assume that's what he wants to be, but then also, how do you become the goat? Is it most appearances? Is it most goals? Do you have to lead the US to a semi-final? I don't really know how you do that either. Yeah, I was thinking goals on that front, and I think it, I don't know if it's achievable, to be honest, I think it probably is. Politics at 31 goals, he's fifth in the leaderboard, Demsci and Donovan at 57. He's gonna take time for him to get there, but I think it's within reach. And if you do that and have the club career that he's had, even if he stalls out at club level, and that's pretty much it for him, I think everybody would have to say that he is that player. Like I think clearly is the most talented US player who's ever achieved this sort of stuff. So I'm already on board with this as a perspective, but a little bit longer, I think policy would have everybody on board. I wonder how much not going to the World Cup in 2018, obviously is a big thing, but that's really fundamentally three games missed, but not having qualifying for this coming World Cup. It does hurt his numbers, does it it? 'Cause I think of Josie putting in eight against Barbados, or like Jesus for error, the pirate of the Caribbean, like scoring all his goals against lower level con-key-caf opposition. Yup. It's getting a hard, policy scoring numbers, doesn't it? Very much so, yeah, fewer. I think you get fewer games against those mid-o's when you're not coming in for some of the goal cups, like the nation's league even has changed that. I think it's way harder for a policy to climb that ladder, which is why I'm not 100% sure that he will, but I think it's possible. And if you stick around long enough, and people recognize the club career that you had, which is so clearly head and shoulders above what Donovan and Demsie were able to do, I recognize that center from the USMNT, but I think it is within reach for him. And I am guessing absolutely, you guys are spot on about that. I just had the sense that how would you not be motivated by that to be the greatest USMNT player ever? I feel like he would have to be, and I think it's possible. Graham? Yeah, I think it'd be a pretty massive shock if Pilsik were to retire after this World Cup. Might be a different story after future World Cups. It'll be 31 after the next World Cup, I think is birthday's in September. So it'd be 32 pretty soon after that. I worked. 34 slash that's how it works. See, all the best people have birthday's in September as well. 34, 35 after the Saturday World Cup. So those seem like more feasible opportunities, times for a decision on playing for the national team. I don't think if he does make that decision, it'll be because he doesn't enjoy playing for the US. I think because he's been part of that core group of players for such a long time. I feel like you can tell they enjoy each other's company. It would be a decision made on injuries and preserving himself for the club game, which he's already kind of shown. He, I mean, I know it's the gold cup and he would never do it for a World Cup, but he's already kind of shown that priority, that hierarchy and his own mind by skipping the gold cup last summer. So maybe in the future, but yeah, it would be unprecedented. Not just for the US, but for international soccer as a whole for a player who is 27. Not just a key figure, but seen as the billboard player for our national team. Paul Skolls retired from England Jutty at 29. Part of the reason he retired from England Jutty was he wasn't a key figure. He kind of felt like he should have been a key figure. So I just think the scenario is completely different for a Pilsik and I don't see it happening. I think it's more likely he ends up in MLS within three years of this World Cup than it is that he retires in the three years that follow this World Cup. Yeah, very good. All right. So of all the hot takes we've taken today, it was the final one. We all agreed on it. Hey, look at that. We got there. We reached consensus. Congratulations. Thank you, man, the ram for that hot take. There we go. That was take it or leave it. Let's do it again soon. That's what I say. That's my vote. Very good. Taylor Rockwell, thank you very much for your take analysis. As always, you are welcome, my friend. Thank you for hosting. Thank you to my friends for providing lovely takes and leaves. Joe, I'm now stuck on where a policy ends up in MLS and how big of an impact that would be. So that's for me to ponder off air. There it is. We'll see how the continental class co-presented by all state in Charlottes, North Carolina goes. Maybe that'll swing things. Who knows? Maybe. Joe Larry, thank you very much. Hey, Ryan, I'll take you any day. Thanks, Joe. Thank you very much. Graham Rosson, thank you very much. Thank you. If I say that in my Scottish accent, Ryan, I'll take you any day. That's on the threat. That's a threat of violence. I don't want a Glasgow kiss as you did when I call it, above the border. That's right. Graham, you saying that in even vaguely threatening terms that had been formed, Celtic just got another penalty because of the way you said that. The tone was aggressive, penalty given. Nothing surprises me at that point, Taylor. Should have been an indirect Glasgow kiss, in my opinion. Anyway, listen, thank you very much indeed for joining us on this episode. We'll be back on the feed very shortly indeed. But for now, bye. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING]