It's poppin' real once Logan Murdock here. Howard Beck and Roger Bell in a second, we talk things all game three of the Western Carpet Finals between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the San Antonio Spurs. Then we get into a little talk about the Cavaliers Nick series. We didn't get to talk about game one or two and we didn't get to talk about the travesty of James Harden's defense. So we get into all of that, we get into a real good, we're one of the week, really, really fun episodes. Y'all know how we do Real One's after Dark Eye, make sure you check in to Real One's MelbegaGmail.com. Real One's MelbegaGmail.com Real One's MelbegaGmail.com, not planned. Talk to you guys on Tuesday for now, Real One's right now, right now, right now, right now, Cliff B. Played a theme music. The Ringer NBA Show is brought to you by Fandall. The Conference Finals are here. Think you know how it'll go down. Take your shot with Fandall and get closer to the action. Fandall is the best place to bet the team's players and plays during the NBA postseason. Build the same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. Download the Fandall Sportsbook app now and play your game. 21 plus select states, 18 plus DC can tuck your Wyoming gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER, 1-888-789-777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. It's Bob and Real One's Logan Murdock here, Audemar the fucking back there, Roger Bell there, in a hotel room, some luxury hotel in the middle of the country. And we are here talking to you guys after 123. 108 Oklahoma City Thunder Victory. Now, Roger, I, this is my thesis on the series. First series, the first game of the series, excuse me, Oklahoma City played scared. And the second game of the series, Oklahoma City decided not to play scared in one. And in game three of the series, they decided to get into San Antonio's head, not only their head, but the crowd's head in general. And kind of took control of this series, right? Well, is this a championship level win by them that is just in this moment of the night, or is this did they figure out San Antonio? What, what would you see tonight from this victory from OKC? And what was like the biggest things that stood out? I think this is a combination of things. Like, obviously, you know, you want to see championship level teams, and you know they are championship level teams when they respond. The way OKC has after losing game one at home in the fashion, they lost it. But I do think that they figured some things out with San Antonio. First and foremost, you alluded to the fact that they're way more decisive with the ball. You started to see it in game two. And I think you just saw it the trend continuing game three. Like, there's a lot of, you know, playing out of that double team, whoever catches that ball, they are making a decisive move, getting into the pain. The balls popping around the perimeter. Guys are shooting with confidence. Even with shots that are getting blocked at times. Like, we talked about that after game one, they're shooting them. Like, they've made their mind up that they're going to be aggressive. And so, yeah, I mean, look, if you're. If you're OKC, this can sound crazy. But like, there's a part in me that's like, hey, we should be up fucking 3L right now. You know, like, and San Antonio, we're really going to find out kind of what they're made of. I fully expect them to be game. I'd pick them in game four. But we're going to find out. Now, it's their turn to answer the bell to see if they're made of the championship level type of stuff that people think they are. Howard, I mean, they went on a 15L run. The Spurs did to start this game. And like, I'm just thinking, like, oh, shit. Like, San Antonio's figured it out. They're going to be the next champions for, you know, the next five, six, seven years. And this is just what it's going to be. The tables have turned. And then you start to see from the Spurs, like, what we've kind of been talking about all season, right? Where they are the Spohema team. They are great. And granted, Deer and Fox was hobbled, granted, all of the granted, right? But then you start seeing what we were talking about throughout the season where we wanted them to see at this point where they get tested. And this was the game of all the playoff games where they showed the most immature, right? Where they let the crowd get into it in a negative way. Where, you know, the fouls are the fouls are the fouls. And they, it seemed like that got underneath their skin. What did you see from the immaturity and the youthfulness of the San Antonio Spurs? And can they kind of come overcome that as a series goes along? Because as a series seems to go along, it seems to be advantage. Okay, see when it comes to the maturity of it all. The way they came out, you know, that 15-0 blast to start it. I mean, it really did look like the Spurs are ready to just seize control. I don't know if I was ready to jump five steps ahead to win the series, win the championship, win the next five championships, Logan. You might have gotten a little carried away with 15-0. I'm excited, man. I'm off coffee right now where all the superlatives are in play at this point. I'm sorry. It's real, it was after dark. I don't know what to expect for me. It gets a little loopy around this time. Oh, fair. And 15-0, it really did. It looked like, all right, these guys, they've just got it on lock. And they've got the confidence. They've got the timing. They're in sync with each other. They know how to execute against this team. But, you know, we know how the NBA goes. Those, those, those kinds of things don't necessarily hold up all the time. I'm not sure there's any one thing I would take from this game other than, obviously, this is the Jared McCain game now, officially. It definitely isn't Philadelphia. He outscored the entire Spurs bench. Sixth man of the year, Keldin Johnson. No, we're really to be found for the Spurs tonight. Dylan Harper granted, you know, he was a game time decision. And he played, but he was pretty muted. Six points on seven shots. So there just wasn't a lot of pop from the Spurs supporting cast in general. Deer and Fox comes back and, you know, it looked like he was going to be out for good again after door rolls into his ankle. It just never looked like anybody, anyone guy could get it going consistently tonight. And credit the Thunder Defense for some of that. I don't, I don't know that there's a lot else to read into it. The Spurs are not to give them excuses. They are operating with two of their three most important players, two of their three best guards. Not at 100% right now. And Wembee had a very good game by Mortal standards. But he did not have an absolutely dominant game or certainly not up to the Wembee standards that we've seen. Sometimes that means he, you know, he's got, you know, six or seven blocks. Sometimes it means he's got 30, 35 points tonight. It was, you know, 26 points for four rebounds for Wembee. Three assists, two blocks. Like it was fine. It wasn't dominant. And in a series like this, you need dominant. And Shay, after that quiet first quarter, was dominant the rest of the way. And you can complain all you want. Folks about pal baiting this, that whatever falling down, everything else. Time Haberstro's study of players that fall down a lot, concluding that Shay does indeed fall down more than any other player in the NBA. Whatever you want to say about it, the dude scored a ton of points. Got to the line. Got guys in foul trouble. And, you know, here we are. Thunder up to one. They've got home court advantage back. What I want to go back to the one of the points that you made. And throw it to Roger. Where we talked about Wembee's, the defense on Wembee, excuse me in the game. One last time we talked about the series. And it was basically, we're going to have Caruso guard him and face guard him. And then we're going to have a shot block over the top. Game two, okay. Shay says, we're just going to put heart and see on him. We're going to kick the shit out of him. We're just going to, we're not even going to hide it. And I think game three was a mix of all of those things. Home, we got a piece of them. They did the Caruso face guarding. And then they, they, they just switched it up a lot more. They gave him a lot more looks. And you kind of see that like every, that's what I kind of was frustrated about. I think with game one from the Thunder's defensive strategy. Is because what young guys like Victor wouldn't be young. But you've seen it throughout NBA history, right? Where Katie's first series against Ron Arthas. Jordan's first series against whomever. Right? The key to young stars and playing against young stars is just switching things up, right? Defensively and trying to get them in a bind and trying to figure out where the help is. All that to ask, what did you think of the defense? And just switching things up against Wombin Yama. And like, what is his counter to what the Oklahoma City is doing through three games? Or two games actually? Yeah, the key, the key to any star is switching things up. If you give any player of that level the same look over and over and over again, you may have success through a certain portion of that game. But eventually, there is great as they are because they figure those things out. And they figure out how to take advantage of what it is you're actually trying to do. So I would argue that that's for any star. It can be particularly confusing though for younger stars that aren't used to having to make those adjustments on the fly in the moments that mean the most, especially the playoffs, the deeper you get in.
into the playoffs. I think they've done a really good job. I think in game two, you didn't see as much of the quote unquote kind of junk defense. It was basically, you're going to have to deal with Heart and Steen and his six valves and his physicality, and we're just going to try to-- - This is a grab your arm in front of the camera. I don't even care. I'm going to grab you. I'm going to do whatever I need to do. - Yeah, and look, that's just part of the game. It's funny, man, because in my house, I had Ty and Dia and Zenwara home, but like four of their friends were there, and then my folks came over to watch. Everybody is crying for Wembee. Everybody is crying, they're showing them. They're fouling him. - He's 7-4. - Yeah, I mean, it was just fascinating to listen to this, but that was the strategy they employed, and then there is a chess game within the chess game. From game to game, we've got to make these adjustments. So you know San Antonio's going back, and they're figuring out, all right, if they're going to play Heart and Steen on him for extended periods of time, and that's the only look we're going to get. Well, here's what we're doing as a Spurs offense to get Wembee going against that particular defense, and I thought going with the hybrid of the two tonight was a great call by O.K.C. A great call, 'cause you just off balance. You're just, you know they're going to make a move, and so you preemptively make a move, but it's not too cute either way. You're not staying in either one for extended periods of time. I thought it was a really kind of masterfully called game against him defensively. He and the Spurs need to figure out a way to get in the paint. Like he can't be floating around the perimeter as much as he's floating around the perimeter. He's just, you know, I told you I would play Isaiah on him more in game two and make him have to earn him. Go down there and earn him, dog. Like get down there, get him down there with catches in areas where he can really take advantage of that size in that way. I think points in the paint were even tonight. The glass was even tonight. You know, if O.K.C. is going to play San Antonio even in the paint on the free throw line, that was even, just about all of those even. San Antonio's going to have a hard time beating them. And the other thing was like it was the on-off splits though with Victor on and off, right? They go on the 15-0 spurt and then they take them off the floor and San Antonio's kind of lost without him, right? Like it, especially against the team like O.K.C. with the guy, not only of Shay's caliber, but you see the other guys and you see their depth really kind of coming to the fold, right? It's 70-some bench points tonight. Yeah, and then AJ Mitchell is hurt. But you got Jared McCain, right? And then you got Caruso, who can't miss from three-point land all of a sudden. He's 60% from three-point range in this series. After shooting 29, I believe, in the last series. You have all of this depth. And let's talk a little bit about Jared McCain. And he's a guy that, you know, Tours ACL was-- we're going to make Cliff very sad during this segment. But Tours ACL is cast off because, you know, the Sixers VJX home comes into the fold. They sold high on him. That'll dare Mori. And he comes into this Oklahoma City team. It's just one of the guys finally gets his opportunity tonight. And kind of shows what he is and what he can be. And you have that kind of caliber coming into a team that's already stacked, Howard. Like, what does that do for a team like this? I mean, I think this is why people, even outside of Philly, were kind of upset about the McCain trade at the time. Because it's like, oh, like OKC needs yet another great shooter off the bench, another score, another guy who could do some stuff with the ball on his hands. Like, they already had the best depth in the NBA. You know, among all the contenders and McCain added another dimension to that. The thing with role players is, and with young players is, you might have a 24 point night like McCain had tonight, but you can't rely on it every night, right? But if you, if it's sometimes, you know, like last year was sometimes an Aaron Wiggins or an Isaiah Joe. And this year, you know, it's going to be McCain at times and it could be the other guys too. It just, it just gives them yet one more way to go. And especially now that J Dubb is once again on the shelf, an AJ Mitchell starting and he was, you know, obviously, you know, big part of their bench potency this season. Now you need somebody to backfill that. Well, Jared McCain's kind of doing that, not with the same level of dynamism of a J Mitchell, obviously, but he's just a great shooter. The bench here, the latest staff from our friend Kierthika, Kierthika, I believe, I'm going to get this right eventually. OK, these bench outscored the spurs bench by 53 points tonight, 76, 23. And of course, McCain was was a big chunk of that. That is the largest bench differential in a conference finals game since the league started tracking starters. I don't know what year the league started tracking starters, but I'm going to think that's a long, long time ago. And this is the biggest bench differential in the conference finals in whatever that number of years is. So yeah, don't know if Jared McCain would have changed anything at all for the sixers when they got smoked by the next in the second round, but he's certainly making a very big impact on the fund. Definitely going to help Roger. Yeah, you would have definitely helped that. Yeah, it's hard to predict whether he would have changed anything. But he would have helped like before I even touch on the physical, you know, tools him putting the ball in the bucket, stretching the floor. And I, you know, once he starts feeling good, he was making plays, man, like he's making plays in the paint. He was making plays, you know, in the paint and then spraying it out to other people, but I think maybe even more importantly, when we talk after game one, and you, you, you kind of asked what the difference was in these last couple games. And I talked about their, their, their kind of level of fear listeners, right? They're not, they don't seem afraid in that way anymore. Or just tenetive or whatever the word is you want to use to describe it. He's got a level of fearlessness to him. And we talk about stars all the time. And yeah, man, I've got to see that look in your eye. If I'm a role player and you're the star. And I want to know that you're solid. But man, if you got, if you got role guys, guys coming off your bench who are equally as fearless and are showing that they are with the shits on any given night in any given series, that is a big boost for your team before they score 26, 27 points, just, just they're in the fight and they're swinging and they're taking the fight to the other team. He was one of the first people I saw in this series taking on Wembee. Like go back and look like there were a few times in game one where he was like driving the ball in there and in a weird way. Look like he was the most unafraid of the situation. So he's, he's been big for them, not just, not just in terms of the output, but in terms of the attitude. Sometimes like, you know, I felt like the beginning of this, of this series in game one, I felt like the spurs were just in OKC's head. Like because of what happened throughout the regular season and they played that way, right? Like, you know, they were, they were playing scared of Wembee when they were going into the paint and you kind of saw towards the end. Like one of the things that I've learned just covering the league is you never turned the game off because you can see little things that can get you a clue of what the team is going to do in the next game. The losing team is going to do in the next game in the final few minutes, right? And there were, there was a Jared McCain plays that you were talking about. But there was also that shade dunk we talked about in the waiting moments as well, right, where he was just like, fuck this. I'm not going to be scared anymore of, of, I'm going to show this team that we're not going to be scared of this one guy, right? And they took that attitude going into game two and by extension game three. But another person that I want to shout out, Raja, is, is Jay Will. Because he was one of the guys that, that in the first quarter when they were down 15, he was hitting a few threes and he kind of got the basket open for them. And I, and I would argue that he was the catalyst for the rest of that bitch, including Jared McCain, right? Because there was another moment where it was like, oh, shit, we're down. And Jay Will was like, no, fuck that. We are going to take it to them and they were off to the races after that. What kind of, when you, when I talk about Jay Will and what he does, what does that do to galvanize a team when you are down like that? But you know, you can beat this team, but you, you kind of need to see it for, you got to see it first before you actually do it. Yeah, well, yeah, shout out to him. Um, you know, it would fall into the Jared McCain category, like, of, of player. That, uh, if you are getting that level of, of fearlessness from them, it is a big boost, but specific to like, when you as the, if 99% of the rest of the team doesn't have it, um, someone like that having, you know, a run of 15 or whatever it was in a quarter, just to keep you afloat is critical. It just keeps you tethered to the game from a score standpoint. Like if the, if he's not making those, it's, you know, we're too far. You know, we're, we're not really in reach here. We're going to keep playing. But there's, you know, there's a point in an NBA game, even in the playoffs where it gets so out of hand where you're like, oh, fuck, like this isn't going to happen. You start thinking about whether you should get some rest or not.
you know, like anything can happen, but he just keeps you close enough, keeps you, you know, it just keeps you in the game in a way where you feel like any little spur gets you right within striking distance. And you know, that's the difference in game sometimes, right? Like if that winds up ballooning, um, and you're sitting at 20 some, it's completely different ball game than he hits that three and now it's 12. Jamal Crawford, in front of the podcast, um, said, uh, he said this is about McCame, but I think it, I think it really relates to Oklahoma City's bench. He said this after McCain's like, and the and one and a second half, he said, Jared McCain doesn't win you quarters, he wins you minutes. And sometimes that's just, that's even, that's just as important as doing that. And I feel like how we're like, we talk about Oklahoma City's bench, and I think that's the key to them, right? Like you look at this, you look at the box score, nothing's like overly impressive here, other than Jared became 24 points, but you see a lot of guys that win this team minutes, right? And like kind of, and I think what that does is it, it takes the pressure off him, you know, Oklahoma City stars, you know, Chet still trying to get his, his stuff together, you know, five of seven or 14, but they got a lot of guys that can win you minutes that will ultimately win you quarters. And they got more of those guys than the spurs do right now. Um, and also like, you know, lest we lose track of it. This is the first time through for pretty much the entire spurs lineup, other than Deer and Fox, who just finally played his first game in the series tonight and just still hobbled, um, and a little bit of Harrison Barnes. But like for everybody else, for, you know, for, for, for Wembee, for Castle, Vaselle, Harper, it's, this is all new to them. And so, um, you know, it, it's harder at this stage of the season. Nothing comes as easy. And, you know, that you're going to have more variance in players at that level, who are young, who are not used to, uh, the every other day, uh, pace of, of the playoffs and trying to produce day after day. Um, the thunder has been through this before. And I think that matters a little bit too. Uh, Jalen Williams, you know, big Jalen Williams, the one who played tonight, um, the one who's still healthy. Like a year ago does, I mean, I'd have to look, I may be wrong. But like, he goes for 18 tonight. He, he, he took it to them, you know, multiple times in a row there, um, in the, in the, in the fourth quarter when they're holding off every charge. I don't know, is, is there an 18 point game on his resume from last year's playoff run? I don't recall if there was. I feel like he was much more of a bit player, but he's a guy who's ready to step into a little bit more responsibility the next time through. And, you know, this time next year, I'm not writing off the spurs by any stretch, but if they don't make it through this time next year, Harper Castle, Vacelle and Wembee are going to be that much more prepared for the moment too. Yeah, this was his playoff for your high. There you go. This one was, uh, 14 points. Yeah, like he was a bit player last year, but, you know, between the injury to the other Jalen Williams, J. Dub, and just his own personal growth, obviously, and his ability to fill that role. Um, you know, you're seeing, you know, a lot more of what he can do. And, you know, that's, you know, this, this is why experience matters in this league. What do you want to see from each team, Roger? Next game. Um, yeah, if I'm, if I'm okay, see, um, I'd like to see just that same level of commitment to getting downhill, um, you know, the shots come and go, like, obviously it'd be great if they, if they make the spurs pay for the double, and then they're able to attack four on three and really get that ball pop into where they find that open shooter. Um, but just being committed to doing it with pace and, and, and, uh, aggressiveness, I'm okay with. Um, I'd like to see them, you know, continue to keep Wembee out of the paint to whatever degree they can keep him drifting around that perimeter, keep him away from the basket both sides of the ball, you know, it's, it's obviously to their benefit to have him out there and a bunch of actions to keep him away from the rim. And then offensively, you know, if he wants to wander around the perimeter and make, you know, make tough moves to get his shot off every now and again, I'm going to live with that. It's just the opposite for, for, for San Antonio. I'd like to see them healthy. Like if, if, if we can miraculously get those two feeling a lot better over the next couple days, that's going to help, uh, dramatically. I ain't got you have to find ways to get Wembee closer to the rim. I mean, he's such an unstoppable force when you're just throwing the ball up there. Like no one can reach that. We have to figure out a way to move him around and get him closer to the rim. Um, I'd actually like to see them play them straight up a little bit more. I'd like to see San Antonio play Shay straight up a little bit more to the, to the, to the same logic that you're using with Wembee, you know, like you keep showing him that double. Um, that's three games of it now. No, I'll be it. I think I saw it a little less. I'd be interested to know what the, what the, what the number said about how many times they did it tonight versus what they did in game one. But okay, he's gotten a beat and a rhythm on that. We just, I just talked about it for a whole segment. I'd like to see you throw us another wrinkle at it. Uh, maybe that's a, uh, some, some more zone. Maybe that's, you know, I don't know. It's, late. My brain's not working. But what I'm saying is, okay, he seems to have a rhythm for, for what you strategize would be the, the number one, you know, priority defense for you against, against Shay. Shay was super patient as usual. And then he still winds up doing what he did. So I'd like to see some of those guys have defend for themselves a little bit. Yeah, he's due for another game. We had a game in game two, but he's shooting 39% from the field in 20, 28% from three, but the series, but I mean, he's controlling the game throughout the time. Now, Roger. Yeah. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no. I mean, like, because, because, I mean, statistically speaking, I guess you would look at that and say, we're doing a pretty damn good job. And like, so you, it's really pick your poison, right? Like, there's part of me that's, hey, if, if Jay will and, and, you know, McCain and, and the like are going to beat me as the spurs, I got to tip my hat to you and say, Oh, I can good job, guys. Like, you beat us. Shay's not going to beat the two time MVP's not going to beat me, right? Like, we're not, if I could control that, I'm living with you, Mophos beating me. Um, and I, and I typically would agree with that. I think that there's a, there's a, there's a, like happy medium of moving, you know, moving in and out of those looks a little better, you know, so they don't just consistently get the beat on it in that way. And so, uh, you know, I just be interested to see what they do with that. Oh, Raja, um, there was a little bruha hot and, and you know, you are a bruha hot corresponded. Um, and there was a lot of holes me back, but that's not even the part that really triggered me. I wasn't part of it. That wasn't even part of the trick. It wasn't even a fucking flamethrower. I'm not even a man. What are we doing? Are we fucking doing? It's too late for this bullshit. I've been up to the fucking six in the morning. I'm in a fucking shitty hotel in Kansas City. What the fuck? It's not even a flagrant bow. He ran him down. He made a play on a fucking ball. Yeah, he had his hand in his back. We're both moving at a hundred miles an hour going that way. You don't think he's gonna fucking fall down? I'm sorry. That's ridiculous. Oh, that wasn't even the part that triggered me. It wasn't even part that triggered me on your behalf. The part that triggered me on, on, on, on your behalf, is that they showed I believe he was Isaiah Joe trying to shake one of the trying to shake his way to do nothing, trying to shake one of the security guards to do absolutely nothing. That was fantastic. And then it was really to add insult to injury either Reggie Miller or and or direct profit said, "Oh, the last time we were here wasn't that when the spurs played the sons and the whole bunch of ejections happened right at that scores." That was like, come on, bro. Come on, I thought, Roger, I thought that was in Phoenix. No, no, that was San Antonio. It was, it was in San Antonio. It was, it happened right at the scores table, right by like board Mike D'Antoni, like right right next to our bench, but the general, the general area where Amari and Boris, I believe, crossed onto the court was like right where he made his fake. So it was, I got my phone blew up, like immediately. As soon as that happened, the phone started. Yeah, it's excellent. Did you feel, did you feel triggered by that? Did that, the, are you used to when people bring that up? It's like, okay, or like, because I feel like it was a cheap shot. They didn't have to bring that up. There's nothing to do with the series. No. I didn't think it was cheap. I didn't take it that way. I wasn't triggered by it. It was, it was, I thought it was kind of funny the way he just kind of faked that and then it's the coach was like, whoa, he wasn't going to do anything. No, he wasn't going to do it. No, he was, no, he was, he was totally messing around. But I'm with Roger. Like that's barely, barely, barely a flagrant foul. Like I, we've, we've seen so much more than that. And it's like, okay, he's airborne and you touched him. But like, it wasn't like a hard shove. It wasn't like, there was nothing there. Uh, I frankly thought castle overreacted and then Vaselle overreacted to the react over, I think there's a whole chain of stupid events. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Castle Castle. I would punch somebody and was like, no, actually, no, actually relax. I think castle was still pissed off from the Karuso foul. Yes. Um, before. So he was just like, he was just, he was just tense. He was just waiting to go off on somebody. Let me, let me, like Howard, it's a, you know, just a piggyback. They have the spurs, um, to some degree. And this is a win for OKC.
you've been distracted. Like that's a distraction. Like the physicality is a distraction. Wendy's, you know, we talked about it kind of in the Minnesota series. You know, when Wendy was like, you know, he's pregame warming up. They showed it on the broadcast with people grabbing him and holding him and, and that's not your normal warm up. Like, you know what I mean? Like that, you're already factoring that in. And then I would just say the shea of it all, if you watch every time he gets a call, the reaction from a San Antonio defender, I think it's, I do. I think it's distracted them a little bit. To what degree? Probably negligible. I don't know if it's worth a couple of points or whatever, but I mean, you're dealing with, you know, these games are one of the most in the margins largely in this late in playoff series. And you just can't afford to be distracted in that way. But play ball, he's going to get calls. You're going to, it's going to be physical. Play ball. I think that, I mean, we talk about this a lot from, is actually my reference Minnesota because we talk about how much Minnesota takes on the personality of their superstar. I do think that San Antonio for better or worse takes on the personality of Wimbee. And Wimbee like, he buys into all the stuff. Everything, because he uses his motivation. But on the flip side, it's like, yeah, man, like you kind of have to blinders, bro, blinders. And that's something that I just want to like tell him, like it's like, yes, they do bow. Yes, they do get, bows called against them. But that's the growth and the maturity of it all, I guess, right? But I just would be like, Wimbee, yo, chill out, bro. Like, you're the best player on the floor, arguably, right? Just be the best player on the floor. Yeah, I mean, yes, I mean, yeah, bro, I don't think you need to be Uber concerned with the physicality. Every NBA star that we've felt was generational has dealt with other teams using physicality to try to move them off of their spot. It's just they're very few people that are physically gifted enough to stop you by just lining up in front of you and trying to block your shot. Like, it just doesn't work. It didn't work. Like, people couldn't do it to Kobe. So we tried to rough them up. People couldn't do it to MJ. So you try to rough them up. People couldn't do it to Braun early. Staff, like, you try to rough them up. It's what you try to do. You're no different in that regard. But, but like, you know, where I see a manifest in itself is like, look, man, there were times where I would argue a call, don't get me wrong. Like, I wasn't one of those dudes that just walked away every time I fouled someone and you called it. But there's certainly times where I know you fouled them. And where I thought, like, Steph Castle, in particular, was kind of tilted tonight after those two fows on him, you know, I saw him multiple times a foul. Like, you foul shape. This is not debatable, bro. Like, you, you, this is a foul. And you're still kind of bent out of shape about it. And I don't think you're necessarily just bent out of shape about that call. I think it was a culmination of things that distracted you to now, everything's just got you reacting that way. And the spurs are a really good team. But if they have multiple guys in that head space, they're not good enough. Yeah, the key thing, though, and this is like from this series and also the series that I saw them play. OK, see, playing it's Phoenix is, like, typically, Shay is playing against the other team's point guard. So when he's playing as the other team's point guard, that is a leader of the other team's offense, right? So you get them the point guard bent out of shape. That's going to manifest and trickle down throughout the rest of the team, right? And it's particularly with the spurs. And we said this in the last podcast, which is, they need their point guards to be calming forces. And when you're, as Stephon Castle, not being a common, a comp forcing, you're letting people get into your head, you're fucking it up for your offense, right? And like, you can see it manifested the first two games. I think I like 20 turnovers. I think that's far and away the most turnovers ever by a single player in the postseason through two games. But like, you could sense this getting into his head where he needs to be a common force, a common force for that team. So that's something to look at. Say a quick break and we are going to talk Nick's tabs. This episode is brought to you by NBC and Peacock. All right, guys, it's officially that time. You can feel it right away. Every possession matters more. Every mistake costs more. Every shot can swing everything. This is one of the biggest stars shine on the biggest stage because this is the test. This is what the whole season has been building to. Watch the NBA playoffs on NBC and Peacock. It's playoff time. And we are back to talk calves. Nick's in a segment that is sponsored by Ferrero. Let's talk game one really quickly. Let's just like the sea. Let's just level set and get back it. Get our listenership up to game three as the series shifts back to Cleveland. How would I believe you read both of those games? Did the Nick's just feel just invincible at this point? Are they going to lose any time soon? Like, what the hell is going on here? What's going on? What's the vibe in New York City as we throw it to Cleveland? So funny thing is if you were to just walk into the garden in the middle of the third quarter of game one, on what was that Tuesday? I don't know how you get into the garden, but if you snuck in past all the vast security apparatus and all the facial recognition software, and you popped into the garden in the middle of the third quarter, you'd think, is there a church service going on here? Because this place is pretty quiet. Might have been the quietest I've ever heard the garden for a game of consequence. Because the calves were up, they'd been controlling the game. And as we all know now, they were up by 22 in the fourth quarter before they blew that entire lead. When it started getting around like 15, 13, and Nick's started to feel it, then that place came alive. Like it was as loud as anywhere you've ever been. And I don't know, like I have been to many, many, very loud, intense, just raucous Nick's games. And I've been to some clunkers where it's a little quiet. This was the first time I can remember where it was both, it was the two extremes in the same night. 'Cause Nick's fans were out of it. That was like, it didn't, also it just been a really muddy game. Like the calves were up, but they weren't playing well. The Nick's weren't playing well. It was all just, yeah, it was just kind of a, kind of a dull, kind of muddy game. And then the Nick's took over. Brunson starts hitting all these shots. Shaman hits that crazy shot. And the place just absolutely comes alive. And I do think people came out of game one to get us to game two now. People came out of game one, I think, with this feeling of, well, if the cast can't hold a 22-point lead, and as disparities, that would be when you're this close to stealing home court advantage and getting that critical road win, how can they possibly come back in the series? I didn't buy that line of thinking because this is a veteran team. James Harden has been part of, let's just say, other collapses before in his career. I don't think he was going to be daunted by a single game one loss. I mean, that sincerely, even though I'm also, yes, making fun of the fact that he's been involved in a lot of collapses. Donovan Mitchell, Jared Allen, Max Struse, like, this is a veteran lineup. This is not some young team that's here for the first time. I thought they would be level set. They would come into game two and they were. They came into game two. They played really competitively for about a half. And then it just got away from them. They after being burned by Brunson in game one, now you're probably overcompensating by shading too much toward him in game two. He scored less, but had whatever was 13 assists or something 15 assists, like he's, he's just hitting everybody else, especially Josh Hart. That's the guy you have to leave. And the calves come out of that game saying, talk about process a lot, like the process was good and you can't really argue the point. On offense, they got a bunch of open shots for guys like Sam Merrill and Struse. All their shooters got open shots, Dean, Dean Wade, and they just missed most of them. They shot terribly, unopened shots. Process was good. Defensively, process is fine. That you've got to leave somebody. And you're not leaving towns because he's an ace shooter and you're not leaving Michele Bridges or or Jane and Obi and you certainly aren't leaving Brunson. And you were trying to and you're trying to double Brunson to get the ball out of his hands or making hard run him. So Josh Hart goes off, how many games is that going to happen? If the same thing plays out the next time, is Josh Hart going to make all those same shots and burn you again? The percentages in the history would say no. But like the calves are down to oh, one pretty big convincing loss in game two, one just completely like it was 80 20 by the way. The next took that game, but they get about 20 to 30% of the credit there and the calves get like 70, 80% of the blame for just gagging it. Because if you're the team that had the 22 point lead, by it's mostly on you for letting it happen. But I think the calves, you know, go back to Cleveland, still feeling all right, like they haven't been home in a week because game seven was in Detroit before this series. I do think there's concerns with Don of Mitchell's health. I think there's probably some concerns with their overall fatigue level. Is that a growing amount? They won't talk about it. Dude, they're not that's the thing, man. Like it's this is going to be one of those ones. We're once the series is over leaked out like, yeah, yeah. It's going to be a little broadcast. He's going to he's going to go out and yeah, we're going to go find out he's going for torso replacement surgery or something. Um, yeah, it's something something's up. But you know, look, he's he's still he's still scorned. He's still able to do some stuff, but he doesn't look exactly right. Roger, as a defender who prizes self on defense, how demoralizing was it to watch James Harden just become a turn-style at the end. I just haven't seen
haven't heard your, like, was that terrifying? Did tears come down your eyes? Like, what have? No, I mean, look, you can only do what you can do. Like James Hardin's never been a defensively, like a defensive, like, peace. He's never been defensively, you know, kind of minded, if you will. Having him out there, I don't blame him for that. At the advanced age that he is, like, everybody as they get older than the NBA, what's the thing that they kind of, what's the side of the ball that most of them take off? Like, Kobe, at the end, what was the side of the ball that he was taking off on? What is LeBron struggle with the tie? Like, it was ever anyone who ages, that defense is going to slip. Like, they can still do cool things with the ball in their hands. And I say all that to say that I don't blame James. Like, it was, it was a complete meltdown as a staff. There's a complete meltdown, like, organizationally, like, someone should have someone just blew that dude. Like, so it's the ball, you know, somehow get blame. You know, that particular game I was locked in less on the defense and more on the offense, because I was trying to, you know, I want my son tied to be like Rick, I mean, like Jalen Brunson, like, you know, he's a six, two and a half guard. And Jalen does some things with craft and footwork and body bumping that I just think are like, incredible tools to try to steal from a guy. So I was locked in on the offense. I don't think it was a James Harden issue as much as physically it was. I mean, he just never was great at defending. And you're asking him to continually switch on the best or one of the best closures in the NBA with a bag full of tricks. Like, that's a recipe for disaster. So I didn't have a beef with that. I would say this about this series, though. I think that the calves are game. I don't think that losing that first game costs them the series necessarily, but they're every day that this series stretches is a problem for the calves. Like, they're not getting better. They're not like, they're legs. They're, they're two seven game series in, right? Playing every other night now. Like that, that is really going to get told either, right? Like they're not. Yeah. It's going to take a toll. So they can be game. They can be there to play. I don't think they folded the tent or don't believe they can beat New York, but there's just going to come a point where physically they don't have it. Listen, man, if I'm New York right now, I'm seeing blood and I want to sweep this. I mean, for a number of reasons, right? You want to get out of a series, but if you look on the other side of that bracket, okay, seeing San Antonio are kicking the shit out of each other, every game is a war, right? And it's, it seems like it would seem like it's going to go long. I'm trying to be at the crib, icing up, getting rest if I'm fixed. And the other point that I would like is I get frustrated seeing like you, where I was just seeing the calves offensively because it seems like two different offensive, right? Like you saw it, I think it was in, it was in game one, but I believe I remember in game seven as well, the Detroit series, like when Donovan Mitchell is cooking, it's one title of offense. It's fast, we're getting to the other side, we're playing with pace. And then when James Hardin gets the ball, it like we automatically have to stop what we're doing and we have to, you know, wait around while James Hardin dribbles the life out of the ball for nine seconds and maybe we don't get a good shot. And then I got the biggest frustration. I got was at the end of that game one where when they go into overtime, Donovan Mitchell, it's like one shot and it's a fade away at the end of a shot clock, right? That is, yeah, egregious. It is tough to watch them don't, because they're still figuring each other out, but also like from a coaching standpoint, they don't have any, any answers for what to do when one of their high volume scores are, I don't really have a question for that, but that's just my frustration. Yeah, well, they don't have the, they don't offense the one. They don't have the personnel if one of their high volume guys isn't like scoring. They don't, I mean, they don't really have another. You have a mobile he's ballin now. I do got to give credit to have him mobile. He's been. No, he is, but like that's not, that's not a guy you're not going to like say, hey, we're not getting what we need out of those two go win us the game. Like that's not the role you want him playing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Donovan Mitchell not getting the ball late in the game. That's on Donovan Mitchell. You could put, you could put the coaches, you could put that on the coaches too, but Donovan Mitchell's fully within his right and has all the autonomy and the world to go over there and say, give me the fucking ball. I'm taking, I'm taking this ball. So if he doesn't do that down the stretch, there might have been other factors. It could have been he was tired. He could have been dealing with, you know, a slight injury or what have you, but yeah, I mean, look, find in the sweet spot when you have two guys that are really good offensively or can do really good things for your team offensively, but they play different styles. Find in the balance in between, you know, in the sweet spot of how much of him and how much of the other one is always kind of the, you know, the game within the game that the coach is trying to play. Like you have to get that right and you have to get the rhythm of the game right for you to have the best chance to win. So, you know, that's not it. That's a good point, Logan. And I'm just sitting here telling you dog like any point we make about this series, it, they're going to be too tired. That's not, you know, played a lot of basketball and these games are coming at you every other night. It's not getting easier for them. Someone asked me the other day. So I got the mix in five, but everyone asked me the other day about Western Conference. They were asking me about the playoffs, right? And could the mix win a championship? I was like, no, they're not being either one of those teams that come out of the Western Conference unless they can get up out of this series really quickly. And those two beat the shit out of each other over the course of seven games. And I know know that I'd pick them, but they would have a much better chance if that was the scenario to play. I thought the same thing after game two after game two of that San Antonio, okay, see series where you just see bodies on the ground. Like you just see people just falling. You see a hamstrings getting pulled, like Dylan Harper is saying, no, the assistants are saying Dylan Harper, you can't come back on the court. You're fucked up. You need to pause. And so we'll see what happens. I don't know, but Howard, I want to give some flowers or Mikael Bridges and Mike Brown. I mean, it just seems like Mikael Bridges just kind of find a new life after he got his ass kicked by Nick's tape and some writers who won't talk about. And seems like he's become a transformation. He had the fire under his ass. And if you get a fire under his ass, Mike Brown has also had the fire under his ass. What has it seen? What has it been like for you to see them, you know, kind of have a transformation in your backyard? I think the thing with Mikael Bridges is like, from the moment the nicks acquired him, all anybody was going to talk about was how much they gave up to get him. It's always like the four picks on the swap or the five picks or whatever the hell the final tally was on that. And like every time he had a clunk of a game or a bad stretch, nicks fans were all over him. And it was bench him in the Hawk series. It was bench him. There been other moments where it's like, you know, this guy just doesn't seem he's maybe malcontent. He's inconsistent. And he's been fantastic. He's been absolutely essential to them and this run. And, you know, just getting the best version of him that you could get basically, which is, hit your open threes, defend at a level that makes this perimeter deep of the nicks. I think one of the, you know, obviously one of the best ones in the season, all season, him and OG and nobody together are formidable to say the least and make some place because Mikael Bridges can do a few things at the ball in his hands. Like I think Bridges is giving them everything that nicks fans could have hoped, but they didn't think they would get. And in Mike Brown's case, you know, nicks fans were split on tips, but a lot of them were happy to see him go, but I think Mike Brown came in with I think a lot to prove just because yeah, things didn't go well. I mean, things that had battling Sacramento. He shouldn't have been fired in Sacramento. Things didn't go, you know, all that great in LA when he was there. I think there was maybe, you know, some mix of optimism, but just like concern. Tips was more the more established quantity, but I think people also knew that they needed something different. And Mike Brown's done a hell of a job. And, you know, the way he's deployed cat as a playmaker, I think maybe, you know, drawing on some of his own experiences, you know, coaching subonus in Sacramento, but maybe a little bit some of the principles that he picked up with the warriors. I think, you know, Mike Brown has more than vindicated himself if he needed to at all in the eyes of certainly nicks fans. And I think the NBA, like, this has been a masterful job. Let's let's hit up rowing of the week. Okay. Shit. I'm going to, I'm going to start it off. We're going to go with Matt Stafford, one year, $55 million extension. Okay. I want to be that old and making that much money. You know, that's cool. That'd be great. That'd be awesome. Yeah. You're the football guy. Yeah, I think you did. I think you did. There's a lot of to Matt Stafford getting to the baggage claim. Good job. He did what it would be. So yeah, Roger, who's your one of the weeks? Sleep. Oh, you sleep would be my real one, dude. The air conditioner. The AC's going to be real one of the week as soon as he turns that fucker back on. There you go, Howard. Let's see. No, this one's near and dear to my heart. Give a shout out. Listeners might not know who they are, but
It's the gonna be the under armor circuit in general and a gentleman named Tor Watts and Raffi I forget what Raffi's last name are they're the two gentlemen that are kind of The head of like the under armor grassroots basketball, which is where Tai played for the last couple of years And we had a great relationship with them and they were super cool to my family and I and Tai wasn't super happy with his situation on the actual team. He was on nothing to do with the brand It's self but the team that he was on and we felt like we needed to make a move for Tai You know to just find the joy in and again and play somewhere else and and and those gentlemen who are Really the stewards of like these kids kind of Platforms to live their dreams and try to chase their dreams could have been real real poop butts about us trying to leave under armor Like they had the right to do so when we told them we wanted to leave because we weren't happy with team and Titan and they were champs They were super supportive and they were everything that you would want someone to be if if they were responsible for Providing the platform for kids and they were about kids and their dreams and they Wish just well and we left on good terms and and it could have just been so messy and so shitty and they were such Gs and champs about it that I really appreciate them and under armor to brand For for for being as cool with the situation as they were so I'm giving them a huge shout out as real words That's what's up. That's what's up. Is there a chance that you're gonna come back out to the Bay Area and not tell your co-host again Like you did for the last under armor camp With that Steph Curry camp that was Silicon Valley is a Silicon Valley is a part of the Bay Area You know, it is I think it was close to Piedmont, but yeah, my bad My bad. It's with an it's within an hour. It's within an hour of Who I live Asshole Howard who is your ruin of the week. I'm not even talking to Where it's me and you talking back to ruin of the week I'm going with Stephen Colbert who signed off last night his final show on CBS He went out with with class with dignity with style with great humor and celebrating His not only his show, but like all the all the people he brought back and just closing out with Paul McCartney and he had David Burr on the other night and it was just awesome and it was joyful and it could have been spiteful and bitter and everything else and he would have had a right to be But he didn't and I'm just gonna say it. It is absolutely appalling and disturbing to me at this stage of my life in this year of Of of of our country's existence that somebody could be a comedian and entertainer could be chased off the air Essentially by the White House itself. It's just absolutely fucking Bad shit crazy that this has happened in our lifetime. So Stephen Colbert is my real one of the week But Sarah Spain our friend Podcaster broadcaster incredibly talented. I think she said it best on blue sky last night So I'm going to give the partial little assist on real one of the week to her because She said all of this more eloquently than I can there are a lot of lessons to be learned from Colbert's forced exit The big ones about government corruption, meet him in opales and censorship But I'll most often think about how he ended things with class Surrounded by friends and the people he most admired joining in their art completely full of joy So well said Sarah. Thank you for saying what I in my iron And frustration couldn't possibly have said as well But Stephen Colbert with an assist from from Sarah Spain Amen, and that is another edition of ruins ruins after dark Time to put the East Coast is a bit We'll see you guys on Tuesday make sure you check out room was
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