Thunder Lower the Boom, Sixers Upend the Champs, and Pistons Storm Back on the NBA's Opening Night | Real Ones

what's popping real once Logan Murdock here talking about the fucking back there Roger Bell there it's a little late but the boys are back and tell how's everybody doing man what's going on how are we doing I've ever seen you in a while we haven't potted in a while what's going on it's been a minute I have heard from some of our loyal listeners saying like my god when are you guys finally back and it's reassured them we have not gone away we are back soon as soon as this thing drops the NBA season is back I am so jacked we are talking to you seconds after the Oklahoma City Thunder beat all up on the San Antonio Spurs we're gonna get to the list a slate of the rest of the games we're gonna get to the Celtics Pistons early game Isaiah is still recovering from that and then we are going to also get to the Kings debut in New York City as a member of the 76ers ring night is a lot to get to let's first get to this Oklahoma City Thunder San Antonio Spurs game this tonight is going to be remembered for a few things it's going to be Shade Gilgith's Alexander what weathering the storm and kicking some ass all night long and then it's also going to be known as the game that when we just decided not to show up maybe you'll show up later in the in the week and the next game the San Antonio Spurs have we'll get into what he did and then this is also the Jared McCain game just so many threes raining down what does this performance say about where the Oklahoma City Thunder are Roger Bell and what can we glean from this what did you see what did you like what did you dislike from this game where what does it say about said they had a really nice first night of the NBA season that they obviously had had slept on on the playoff series for a whole off season and they wanted to come out and prove a point in San Antonio and you know I think they did that they're clearly a different team like the pieces move and people get freed up to do what they ordinarily do when J. W. is in the lineup it gives you that other creator so it's not just all on it's not all on Shay when it's all on Shay a defense can really lock in and and and really just make his life miserable and then have other people doing things that are kind of out of character for them and put your team in a tough spot. I thought I thought chat well when we didn't play great I thought chat looked like he was more physical he was more engaged he he looked like he had something to prove in the matchup not that he dominated it but just the physical presence alone I thought I thought was a good was a good sign for them. Shay I'm sorry I'm rambling he watching him score is a privilege like he is a he is a professional score amongst professional scores like what he does in terms of getting to his spots using that footwork and pivot to to to lure you in and then step through you like it's really poetry and motion. You know I thought San Antonio was good in spurts but you know ultimately when Jeremy Keynes knocking down those threes and they're playing with that pace they can turn you over or get the stop and get out and hit those barrage of threes that they were hitting early in the game like that lead just became insurmountable. This episode is presented by Sam's Club during the holidays everyone's in a club the last minute gift givers club the cool aunts club the food coma club whatever holiday club you're in Sam's Club is the club that helps you pull it off you need to get a meal on the table in under two hours done shopping for the brands they want like Dyson and Lego without blowing your budget check and check Sam's Club helps you make the most of the holidays come join us Sam's Club now I mean look we're all gonna overreact because that's what we do but it's good to see one the thunder just being in one piece again right like when these teams last met in the playoffs last spring you know Jalen Williams wasn't himself the thunder weren't complete and like this this is it's incredible right they offloaded three rotation guys over the summer including a starter Lou Dorte and this actually looks like a more complete team than the last time we saw them because they backfill so easily so fluidly case and wireless AJ Mitchell Jared McCain they just keep coming and coming it's like oh now a day Mara like the the rookie big is in there having really effective minutes two and look they've got enough size to really throw at Wembee and it's funny because you know we just think about how much the spurs I want to say dominated in the last season because like the the playoffs series was was hard fought but like in the regular season it was very spurs dominated I don't know what was up with Wembee tonight he missed a ton of shots was he like one for 13 or something yeah one for 13 I don't think we'll see a lot of that against this team or anybody else again it's night one he still got six blocks which is incredible the style I still crazy it's 12 if you take away the shooting it's 12 points 13 rebounds and 11 six blocks and 11 of those rebounds were on the defensive end I mean him not showing up is somebody's like career night you know it was it was it wasn't press of a stat like take away the shooting I don't know about you guys I was taking it back a little bit by the decision to basically roll out four guards and Wembee is the starting lineup that was interesting like I guess this is I don't know if this is like making sure you're placating everybody and not bruising an egos is this literally just hey let's just put our best five dudes out on the court and it just happens to be the four guards I mean they weren't far they weren't far off of that last I was thinking that too hard and then I went to like they weren't far off of that last year when they were like their best lineup was was I mean who was playing the four for them like in the in the big minutes last year I mean a lot of Harris and Barnes I think if I'm remembering correctly and and look they to buy his Harris is available right now I don't know if that would have changed anything or not frankly this may just be what they do I wonder how that how that's going to play out from game to game for them but I don't know I I thought the spurs did a lot of good things and like the talent is still just off the charts there so you know I'm not walking away from this game thinking anything in particular I think the biggest thing that I saw Roger and Howard was the fact that you know last year when we saw Oklahoma City play against this team in this matchup it was a lot of like we're just gonna dribble into the paint and just maybe see if we can get a bucket when Wimbe is there and then we're just gonna basically they were just playing scared in a lot of those times because they were so afraid of this new version of Wimbe in his aggressiveness on defense this time he just took it to him and it wasn't just a we're gonna go go for layups where there was times last year where they wouldn't even look at the basket and it was kind of it was it was just jarring to see that and tonight they just took it to him and I think that's the biggest thing I think that the the Nick show the world last year was that hey man like he's not the big bad wolf at all times you can go at him and make him work and that I think that was the biggest difference in last year Roger is like those okay see guards made him work and then also on the other end like talk about uh talk about Mara you got a block on Wimbe he would he he was really stout on the defensive in and playing defense against Wimbe they have now three guys that can guard him the thunder do on a given time and that's really really like it's a game changer you have the defensive presence on top of the fact that there's an organizational ethos it's just different from last year when we saw them play against the thunder or play against the spars excuse me yeah I thought they did a good job you know he he makes it really difficult to score in that pain and they've got a really good group of of of long like kind of rangel defenders that that all collectively make it really hard but I do think you hit something I thought okay see did a really good job early of getting into the paint and spraying it like it wasn't always that you were getting into the paint to try to punish them at the rim it was just seeking the paint um to collapse the defense in a way that you could then spring people to get those shots at least looking at the basket right they wouldn't even look at the basket last year at times yeah well uh yeah I mean no there were certainly times last year where they didn't look at the basket but I really felt like they were they made a concerted effort to like really put San Antonio into defensive rotation if they could meaning like we're gonna get in that paint we're gonna move that ball we catch someone to close out you know we're gonna we're gonna drive that close out then start the ball moving and I thought it produced a lot of open looks uh for them as far as Mara goes yeah man he's big he's bigger than anything that okay see has and they were already playing two twin bigs um you know I I I think you know for what I saw in the preseason I'll be it you know preseason is certainly not if anyone knows preseason it's not like the regular season it would be me I have I told this story before I scored 21 points on Michael Jordan in a preseason game at Penn State with my grandmother in attendance and I thought it's It was cake, I thought this was life. And then we went down to Washington DC like two weeks later on the train and the dude had me so out of sorts that I couldn't even make entry passes to the post. That's back when you used to feed the post. Like I was so screwed up because I was so frustrated that I couldn't do that library and had to sit me down. So if anyone knows there's a difference between the two, it's me, having said that he did look good when he played the night. He looked like, he belonged, he looked like there's a role he can carve out for himself. And that just, you know, when your, when your, when Wembee is standing in your way, it helps to have a wealth of bicks like that. - One of the things I was at present was that they weathered the storm of, the thunder did, they weathered the storm of, the air and fox, just Tomahawking, chit. Like that look was, that was very jarring in real time to see, right? And they kind of responded. I don't know, what did you think of that, Roger? You are a crash-out correspondent. We haven't heard from you in a while. Like what did you think of that? What would you grade that on a scale of like one to like 10 on the Richter scale of like shit that happens? Didn't that work? - Three, I mean, he dumped them to the ground, but I mean, other than that, I don't, I mean, it didn't rise to any kind of, it was a little bit of pushing and shoving and, but no, I thought, I mean, he dumped them to the ground. Sometimes you could get caught, even if you're smaller than somebody. If you catch them in a weirdly leveraged position, like you've got your leg behind their knee and you kind of grab them around the top of their body and dump them to the ground, you can make a really big dude fall like a tree like that. You know what I mean? So, he's just going to the ground. I mean, it's, I love that though. I mean, what I took away from that game was, that was as intense a first game of the season as I remember watching. And I could appreciate that. They were getting after it. - Yeah, it was, I mean, even after Howard, that we're going to get to it in a second, that Sixer's, Nick's game, which was also like just so much emotion. It was a wild day of basketball. And a lot of, at three great games, specifically, we're going to get to him. You know one of the things, Howard, that I, you know, from a media standpoint that I've just been thinking about all night, just like the spurs of this off season. And why I'm kind of disappointed that they came out the way that they came out. For a team that lost the NBA finals, they did a lot of press. And I'm not, you know, me, Howard, we're not bad when players do press. But they were doing like the GQ things. And, you know, the photo spreads and, you know, Dylan Harper's, like just musing about like, oh man, like I want that starting spot. And then the guards, for the most part, like their stats won't say it at the end. Like, you know, Castle Hatch 24, Dylan Harper at 18. But they really didn't, it didn't seem like they took that step that we wanted them to take. And I was just a little disappointed in like, man, guys, you just stuck your chest out, you did the photo shoot with the horses and stuff and all along the ranch. Like this is supposed to be an arrival after you lost and got embarrassed in the finals. And now you lay this egg, you know? That was a little, that was disappointing to me, right? Like if you're gonna, it was a little, ugh. I didn't like their performance. - In fairness, yeah. Harper castled the GQ thing, photo shoot and story. And Harper said some things and then tried to walk some of it back and whatever. Like it was a good store, a good interview. And like, I don't mind him, you know, sticking his chest out a little bit. And I didn't think there was too much like, braggadocio going on there. And Wembee, by contrast, apparently has turned away everything like, and has said like in terms of like, sit-downs, the only sit-down he'll do is with 60 minutes was what came out of the beat riders. And it's not that he's not talking to the media, it's just, he's not doing these sit-downs, except for if it's with 60 minutes. So like, I don't think they're chasing fame or anything right now. I do think, I agree with you like, the way they, the things went in the finals and you hope they're coming back with, you would expect them, they're coming back with a massive chip on their shoulder and just a drive and a vengeance on their minds. And listen, like if that had been the Nixon front of them tonight instead of the thunder, maybe that brings out a different element too, right? You would hope the thunder gonna bring out that element because they are the champs that they knocked off last season. They are, that is the best rivalry in the NBA right now. And so I'm not saying that the thunder are, you know, they shouldn't evoke anything, but maybe be a little different if it were the Nixon front of them. And maybe just that it's night one. And maybe it's, it's, who knows what? Deer and Fox to the point, certainly showed us some feistiness. And I don't know, I'm not sure a seven footer should, leverage or no leverage, Roger. I'm not sure a seven footer should be letting himself get thrown to the ground by a point guard. Regardless, I think, I think Shack and his, at his top of big men would not approve, but, you know, - Yeah, I don't think Shack would approve of that, but Shack was also not 175 pounds soak away. - They're built a little bit differently. Obviously, the pride of seven footers was at stake there and it took a little bit of a beating. - Oh, trust, tomorrow night or whenever they're doing it, inside the NBA is going to bring that up, and it's going to be, it's going to be hilarious. Shack is going to bring that up and talk a lot of things. - By the way, by the way, every Williams on the floor getting a tech in the same scuffle as Noah Eagle pointed out in real time. I freaking love that, it's hilarious, both Jalen's and Ken Rich all getting techs in the same scuffle. It's got to be unprecedented. - No, I'd love this about this rivalry, man. I do love it. It did deliver even though it was a little anticlimactic in the first half, it did deliver it. Roger, I do want to ask you though. We did such talk about the defense on Victor Women Yama, but, did you see any blueprint there? Like, is there any, did the three big line up or the three bigs on OKC, did they show you something about how to guard Wimby down the stretch of the season, or was it just a bad night shooting from him? - Yeah, I thought it was a bad night. I thought as a team, as a collective, they did a good job of trying to make him see a lot of bodies, like trying to make him play as much in a crowd as they could. I liked early in the game where they flooded the strong side a couple of times when he caught it. You see that secondary defender come over and they almost put him in like a pseudo-two-three zone. You know, you had one guy that was playing on ball and then you'd have that kind of, you know, low man just shadowing him on the strong side. I liked that. I thought that was a nice wrinkle early and sometimes with a guy that, you know, maybe isn't as sharp as he will be in a few years as a score, if that makes sense. Like, you know, when I played KD when he first came into the league, he was awesome. But he wasn't the dude that perfected his craft seven years later as a score, right? Same with LeBron. Like those guys just get better and better and better and then they get answers to the test. So you don't fool them, you know, the same way in year seven or eight as you did in year three or four. The point being, sometimes if you get a younger score like that or a younger player and you throw some stuff at him early enough in a game, it confuses him. It just knocks him off of their stride for long enough for you to get the advantage, right? And I think they did some things early in that game that I did see overall though. I thought they just did a good job of being, you know, body, bodies in front. He settled, you know, but he does that, right? Like it's the same beef I'm going to have when we talk about Joel and Beaton a little bit. Like, you know, you're not a back to the basket, dude, man. I know that's not like the way you play, but I want you on top of that rim more often than in your own top of that rim. Like I like when he's rolling to the bucket, catching the lobs or getting fouled, um, or just just getting ahead of the, just get, just like even just getting ahead of the, uh, the defense and just feeling somebody getting a quick dump real quick, right? Like get your rhythm back. Yes, yes. Um, but anyway, um, you asked me a point of question. I schematically I saw that little zone tactic early in it. And then other than that, I think that was just a team effort of being like, hey, man, we're going to have bodies and this Joker's going to have to run through us all if he wants to get to the room. Yeah. Last thing I wanted to ask. So like, what do you think of J. Dub, Roger? Like J. Dub, he went five of 16 tonight. He was supposed to be like his, his coming out party again, right? Like he's had such an interesting career. I mean, on one hand, you have Shay Goku's Alexander who was very much the center of the Thunder Universe. And also as an added bonus to that, he is somebody that keeps them on a straight line, right? No matter what the outside stuff is happening, the injuries and everything that is going on with that team, you saw that a lot last year where he can kind of carry the team through. But like Dub is supposed to like raise that ceiling and he just kind of was a little ordinary tonight. No, well, he did, right? He raised the ceiling, make no mistake. I mean, he was, he wasn't, you know, a phenomenal score of the basketball. But like I said earlier, what he does is, you know, he has the ball in his hands to create. And yet some timely buckets, like he had some timely buckets when, when San Antonio was trying to get back in that with their own run, he was getting to the rack and kind of finishing with that inside hand. But he's a primary and he's a playmaker. And, you know, that gives you the opportunity to, if you play him with Shay and teams are just going to get the ball out of Shay's hand, well, it gives you another person that can create against an advantage theoretically, because you're not playing four against three. But it also gives you a guy that if Shay's tired or anything else is going on, you could just throw him the ball and he can get to something for himself. and more importantly, for those shooters, and for the guy who wants to catch the lob at the rim, it gives you another creator that they just didn't have. They were lacking that down the stretch last year. It was, they were too predictable of an offense. And so while he might not have point produced tonight to like the tune of what you're used to seeing from him, I do think having him back for me, it's why I said it when you asked me what I saw, I was like, oh, that would have been a different series. I think if you had a healthy J Dub last year, like I think that some of the things that San Antonio were able to do weren't going to be as effective if you had a secondary dude out there that could really work with the ball in his hands. What statement was made tonight by OKC Howard? I mean, the only aspect of that I think rings partially true at least aside from getting his ass thrown on the ground by Deer and Foxes, that Chet Holmgren actually kind of stood up and played like a seven footer again. And gave the Thunder more of that physical presence and resistance that they needed, you know, I mean, and they're going to need much more of that, right? Like they're going to need it obviously throughout the season, but they're going to need it in an eventual rematch with this team in the playoffs. And I think, you know, ultimately that's part of what this season is about is them, you know, getting Jalen Williams fully back to where he was during their championship run and Chet Holmgren consistently, especially against the Spurs and Wembee in particular, to a level where you know you can rely on him and at both ends and where he's not going to shy away from the matchup because you're not going to take four out of seven from the Spurs in that eventual rematch that we all expect without it. Same quick break when I'll talk Sixers Knicks on the other side of the break. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fandall. The NBA is back. And this is your most rewarding season ever on Fandall. How rewarding are we talking? More rewarding than a half court buzzer beater. More rewarding than a 29 point comeback. Maybe even more rewarding than a center knocking down a three. I mean, that's really rewarding. I mean, come on. Everyone loves when the big man lets it fly. This NBA season, that feeling doesn't stop on the court. Look out for the Fandall Rewards Club exclusive offers, surprises and more. Let's take a look at the slate. Huh, we got Bucks Wizards. I think I'm going to take the over on that one. The Timber Wolves heat. I think I'm going to take the over on a sis for Lamello Ball. And I'm going to take the over on points for Anthony Edwards. And then I'm going to take the over on points rebounds. And maybe a sis for Yannes, I did a combo. So every week, check the Fandall app to see what's waiting for you. Make this your most rewarding season ever with Fandall. Download the app to get started. Must be 21 and older in select states or 18 and older in DC or Wyoming gambling problem called 1-800-Gamber. Call 1-888-7897777 or visit ccpg.org/chat and Connecticut. And we are back. Sixers Knicks, man. This was really, really entertaining. One of the so many different storylines to go into here, right, we talk about the ring ceremony, the New York overall New York propaganda. Been out here doing this thing on the pregame voiceover. We see you. Congratulations. But for the basketball aspect of this, LeBron's debut was pretty much everything that you could hope for if you're a Sixers fan, right? Like they tried it out some really, really interesting lineups. But the biggest thing that I got overall-- and we'll talk about the rest of the Sixers first. And then I want to talk about the Knicks as well. But what I saw from the Sixers is Roger. LeBron James is going to be your backup center for the rest of the season until they trade somebody else, right? That's kind of how it has to be. And that's tough. That's a tough thing to do. But that seems like the move here, right? They need to go get something done at some point this summer. If they want to be the threat that I personally think they can be in that Eastern conference, they need to go get something. They need to get something that's been viable in the league, whether it's old. I don't care. It needs to be a big body that can handle some of those minutes that you don't have to wind up flirting with the idea of whether you have to put LeBron James down there to do any type of real grunt work. So I don't know that I answered your question. Logan, they're thin, though, right? They know who they could have used. They could have used Andre Drummond. They could have definitely used him, who was balling and cooking, who basically exposed all of them. We're exposed the entire Sixers front line. And we'll get to the successes and everything like that. But I felt like there was very, very exciting moments from the Sixers tonight. And I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, because it was really impressive what I saw. There were really some exciting, exciting moments, but there were a little bit of cracks in there that is like, ah, down the line, this is going to be tough, right? This is going to be an ebb and flow type of season. And they do have to make some moves as they go along. I think if you're the Sixers aside from the win, you're happy with the fact that on the offensive side, things flowed really nicely, I thought. Yeah. Jalen Brown and LeBron James looked like they'd been playing together for years already. You know, the back tip, that's one sequence, was in the third quarter, I think, where it was, you know, Jalen to LeBron, twice in a row, the alley, dunk, and then the layup. They connected a few times. Maxi is still getting to do his thing. He has not been suppressed at all by the presence of these two. You know, obviously very well established stars and scores. Who, you know, we're all asking the whole summer, how's the division of labor going to work out here? And is everybody going to be happy with their role? Is everybody going to be able to get there? Is obviously V.J. Edgecomb is having to just kind of make do with what he can get? But that's the one guy who, considering his age, you figure he'll be okay. But Jalen, LeBron, Maxi, all got theirs. And Bede, I feel like that Bede, like, it's almost like, you know, like the baby deer kind of thing. Like he's, because like he's got this new lighter body. And he just looks like he's kind of like awkward out there sometimes. Like he was really effective, I thought, in stretches, but like he, sometimes like moving a little funny. But then he's always moved a little funny even when he was carrying the extra weight. It's just, I think all the wear and tear on the knees and everything else. But I thought overall, like that was a pretty nice performance from them. And the LeBron at center thing, like, look, even when and Bede was out there, LeBron was taking a lot of turns on Cat and defending him pretty effectively, I thought. So like that's an option. Like they don't have Dean Wade tonight. And I'm not saying he's a backup center, but Dean Wade is six nine. They don't have Dominic Barlow right now, who's like six nine-ish. And he's banged up. Obviously they've lost hook port for the season. I don't know how much you were going to get at him anyway. But like, yeah, they're just, they're down big bodies right now. And when, at a minimum, when Wade and Barlow are healthy, they'll at least have other guys they can throw in the mix there. That'll help. Yeah, no, but I do like, offensively though, I did love them, right? Like I did love the Sixers and How They Played. The thing that I love the most though is that you have, and I was talking a cliff off line about this, where you have basically two hubs, Roger, right? But at any given time, when you have embied and LeBron on the floor, so when you have those two hubs, you get to see action from, they had fucking VJS coming to the dunker spot, just cutting to the rim and just getting them wide open layups, right? And then you have VJS coming to the dunker spot. Then you also have Tyree's Maxi, who, you know, I feel like when, if you don't have the hubs, those Maxi and Jalen Brown are just guys that will just, can dribble the, the hell out of the ball, all of the air out of the ball. But I feel like there's so much more of a flow here and Howard alluded to that. But when you have those two hubs humming or offensively or even one of those, this is going to be scary. And not to mention, like they've also tried it out of line up with, I saw, Braun, Maxi, embied and Amphorne Simons on the floor. That was really a beautiful basketball to watch. They have such optionality on the off-mins of Vin that it's, it's, it's really scary, but it's also fun because we didn't even see like the breakout game. There was like, from Maxi or Jalen Brown yet, right? Like, was it even distribution of shots? I'm really excited to see the personality, the multiple personalities that this off-mins takes on on any given night. Yeah, it's going to be fascinating to watch them. I liked, I liked when I saw it too. I liked the way, you know, those guys all seem to be willing to kind of give up a little bit of themselves for the collective. The ball moved, people moved. I think, you know, to accommodate the pieces that they have, I think they have to play quicker than Braun's used to playing. Like, I think you saw them whenever the pace ticked up tonight, I think they looked better. Like, whenever they could tick the pace up and clear a board and go, you saw that last year. Remember when MB was out last year, you would just see them run and gun and it would just, that would felt like the new wave sixers. That's what you're looting to. Well, yeah, they just have to, I mean, because there's so many pieces that you, and that's where Tyrese excels in the open court. Like, he's kind of like Dylan Harper in that regard. Like, those two dudes, you give them the ball in the open court, they're going to figure out a way to be on top of the rim and finish it. And so, I like them pushing tempo, whenever they get an opportunity to do that. I do think it's going to be really interesting because as much as those two guys are hubs and you can throw a ball to Braun and you can throw a ball, to imbeade and you can run all these actions off ball and it's creating easy looks for you the essence of who jalen brown is a player it's not that like the essence of who he is is not that so you know i'm sure he's bought into that but as we all know you get into NBA games you get into playoff games you get into you know uh uh tight you know contested games in conference and it becomes you know can i give Logan the ball and can he get buckets or where does Howard like to get the ball and can we get him there you know over and over again and so they didn't need to do that tonight i'm sure they have plans for that but i i would just say he's gonna need a little breath you know you can need a little space to do that because that's who he is that's the essence of him as a player and i did just want to say again like look i thought i thought jalen beade was pretty good defensively at times um you know i i did not i thought the sixers as a whole were crying a lot early in the game like i wanted to be really critical of them there was a lot like bad body language people bitching and moning for calls i found him beade looked like he kind of got taken out of it while everybody else kind of scrapped it and got to play in ball i felt like it beade was like caught up in it for longer um but they figured it out so i'm not hey whatever it happens i do i wonder if it's just not in him physically to do that but like you got 15 shots up at seven and in bad boys with threes like yeah when you're such a punitive force around that rim dude like you are such a force around the rim and again in fairness to him he might not have but he might not have the ability to like he like you could lose a step as a perimeter player you might lose your punch and your and your and your physicality because those knees don't work the same way in the post and it might be that but if it's anything short of that i'd like to see him touch the ball and punish people down low a little bit more yeah i do think though watching him like and i'm gonna throw it to you back i do see sometimes watching him beade and you see that sometimes in the preseason particularly in that net game when they were all playing together like sometimes he just doesn't have he just doesn't have that lift that he used to right like this isn't the imbeade from even two years ago that you see right where yeah one you would want him to seal and just get an easy bucket but like sometimes it looks like he just doesn't have the legs to do that to get to the cup and the three pointer is just what he does especially when he's trying to haul ass and play rim protector on defense yeah i mean and it's been that way the last couple of years ever since like the injuries really started piling up and like i kind of thought you know first when we saw him on media day and he looked so skinny and then um i you know i i did pop in for the first half of that preseason game here in brooklyn when the sixers were here and i was like you're kind of thinking like my god he's got this like i don't know how much weight he lost uh exactly but like he he looks like he should be literally lighter on his feet right like like some of that spring should be back and and it just doesn't it just looks like a skinnier version of the same kind of lumbering semi awkward dude we saw the last couple of years like it just seems like the fluidity and and the the burst is is not back now again it's you know we preseason's are very short these days not like that we was back in roger's day when you played seven or eight preseason games that a whole month to get in shape but like maybe maybe he is still benefit of the doubt maybe he's still adjusting to this new lighter version of himself um and maybe that that that burst will will see more of it but yeah like there are times where he lays the ball up where you think he should have just dunked and it's like like you're so close to the basket at that size like um i i don't i can't quite process it and i'm not sure if this is just the permanent state of affairs and maybe it is maybe it is the sixers for years have been trying to tell us that like no there's no chronic thing going on with him like he'll his knees everything he'll be fine he just needs to stay healthy for a stretch and not know you know i have any any just you know uh you know unfortunate you know instances during the season where somebody bangs into him or whatever he'll be fine there's nothing chronic i don't know man like the way he moves now it just feels like this is where he is but let's let's see how how things unfold yeah i i do want to say like it's it's weird because every time you guys we're talking about him be like the it's it's a catch 22 because the obvious answer here is for the sixers to go small right but like the the small ball five is 40 about be 42 this season so it's a really tough thing because if they do are able to go small like jalen brown was i think you did a really good job on on a brunson and he can guard your perimeter um you know wing wing players on the oppinant team guards on the opposite team maxi can guard edge comb can guard they can get out and run like the answer seems to be like you know i think and i think they're also are going to be some games where you know nick nurse for health reasons like just has to put a you know all the guards in maybe lebranza planning and beads not playing they just go super small for a whole game to start thing but the hard thing to do that i'm looking at their schedule right now they have the calves next huge team right yeah bugs bugs i mean or whatever then they have the then they then they have all i don't know what the problem was doing to them i do it's if it was not right but like you know peep this though i want you to get your point but look at this though peep this i want you i want to tell you the schedule that they have right they have the calves coming up on Thursday the bucks then they have the pistons on sunday then they have this the pace is another big team then they have the nicks again on um on the 30th that's a tough 10 day stretch for you know the front line with no depth Roger well i'll tell you what if if you're going to have to play a tough 10 day stretch you want to do it now do you want to get you want to do that while people are fresh before people start getting nicked up before you have to start thinking about you know does anybody need a day off um they are going to have to be really flexible with with with their pieces um and nick nurses going to have to and his staff is they're going to really have to brainstorm on how they're going to use guys um what type of minutes they're going to play where they're going to play a mat because i'll you know while the brunt probably did look good at minutes playing cat i would argue you know as an older dude like we aren't as good out in space so that's true right like for lebron like his step isn't the same so naturally you want to move him you know closer to the basket and have him playing smaller spaces you're stronger you got that grow man strength you want to do that but but banging takes its toll you know like so you don't you don't want to spend whatever health tokens he has like banging against fives all the time if you could get away if you if you could get away with not having to do that so they're just going to have to be really creative is what i'll say to that they're going to have to figure that out what did this game say about the nicks howard everybody loses on ring night don't they isn't that a thing i don't know what the record is seems like everybody loses and by the way that was a hell of a ring night i'll just say that and it lived up to the billing the the nicks did the thing on on the presentation from miche brine presenting to even like you know walled phrasier giving the the the ring to jalen brunson like it was just it was all the partnerships there was great fantastic bringing in uh members of or family members of their last next team to win the championship back in 73 like um having willis reads uh i think it was his wife there um debusher son minro phrasier like that was a really nice deal Bradley bill Bradley um our boy band stillers uh voice over on the video was great and then like i just thought it was really cool like that that that they I assume this wasn't all stage I assume was all legit but like that that they brought the banner out to the streets and like let fans kind of wrap themselves in the championship banner and that whole video to see that one too like that was really cool um so there were some nice touches um someone's got a burn that fucking orange sport coat that jim dolan keeps wearing like that thing is just uh absolutely fucking hideous it was hideous hey i thought when you first said it i thought you were going to talk about spike and i would have to be like yo chill chill spike you said that was that was that was a phenomenal jacket from spike i'm not messing with spike in his fashion sense spike do whatever he wants jim dolan's jacket's gotta be fucking like thrown on the fucking in the fireplace it's just brutal um howard after dark it's it's late and i'm punchy and i'm really tired and and my eyes are burned from that fucking orange sport coat um like it was i thought it was like nice um humorous touch by jalen brunson maybe the time spent on saturday night live uh you know brought this out i'm a little more making the joke pregame when he addressed the crowd about thanks for staying to the end of game four thank that was cool um but no like i didn't go over there because we were doing the pod the night so it would have been uh the the travel time back and forth would have killed my ability to watch mostly games tonight so i didn't go but it looked like absolutely incredible vibe there and look i thought the nicks mostly delivered there are some lapses there and you know they're they're dealing with like a murderous row of scores and that six years lineup every the whole the whole league is gonna have to you know as long as that team's healthy is gonna have to get used to trying to figure that out um but you know there was nothing in particular about the nicks that i that was alarming i mean i think one of the questions we had was like how how much they gonna miss michael robinson and how much can under drum and fill the gap and like he answered that question pretty emphatically tonight so um but we knew he could do that right like you know michael robinson is like the number one offensive rebounder by rebounding percent in the league over the last couple of years and Drummond is second. So you knew he could do that much. It was the rim protection and some of the ability to guard in space that Mitchell Robinson could do that you're not sure of, you know, whether Drummond can replicate that part. But dude was really effective and endeared himself to Nick's fans really quickly. What would you think of Drummond, right? Oh, I thought he was a monster early. I thought, yeah, no, I thought, I thought he did a great job coming in there and just competing for every board. He finished, he finished a few of them. I thought Lady got a little wild though, like throwing some of his stuffy throw up there late. I was like, oh no, no, no. I mean, who among us, you know, he's filling it. Why not? You know, you're working as hard as you are. I don't begrudge you like the shots. Like you gotta do it. But just watching from at home, I was like, um, but I thought like that's who the nicks, I mean, I don't think it said anything necessarily about the nicks. That's who the nicks are, right? Like they're going to be in a lot of games until they were last year, right? Like they were in a lot of games like that where they're like down a bit or they're up a bit. They're just going to be in a lot of ball games and they're the type of team that you trust over the course of time is going to win more of those and figure out ways to win because of the collective, you know, experience and togetherness and all of that. They're going to win more of them than they lose. And, you know, to Howard's point, that's one of the first times you're rolling out seeing the sixers. A lot of emotions flying around that building. Um, there are a lot of things, you know, at play that wouldn't have you at your best if you were a nick and you couple it with then playing, you know, a sixers where you're trying to figure them out on the fly. I don't think it says much about the nicks. That the nicks look like who, who they are, right? Like those two teams are going to be standing at the end, um, maybe with a couple others, it will have an a chance to win the Eastern Conference. Like that's what it's going to be. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I am excited. I'll just see the chess match between Jalen, the two Jalen Brown and Jalen Brunson, right? Like with the defensive matchups, and especially in a world where the nicks are so reliant on Brunson, and especially for offense, right? He was six for 19. Just it was tough. And obviously it's a ring night, you know, with everything that's just coming down, you know, you had the cobies, you know, the crowd is crazy. It's just a lot of emotions. Like I give them a pass on that. But I am excited to just see that matchup between those two teams. And if you're talking about like the individual matchups, the Jalen and Jalen is just going to be really fun. I think the nicks are who are going to be in the Sixers are just going to be forever fascinated. This is definitely not the last time we're going to be talking about them. Um, okay. Let's, um, say a break and let's break Isaiah Blake Lee's heart. Okay. We are here to talk about the, uh, the Celtics Pistons game, which was really, really fun. First of all, the start, um, as somebody that works from home, that shit was awesome. I had a great time. I was in my jambies. I was in my bed watching. It was nude. Um, it was great. I had a great time. It was so fun. Um, I fuck you, Roger. Oh, anyways. Uh, there's a lot to get to this game. I thought it was really, it was really fun. It was a tale of a lot of different storylines going into it, right? The, the, the, the Jason Tatum of it all is, it's, it's solely his team. But then you have a guy by the name of Paul George who just turns the clock back, um, and it just literally carries a Celtics office through the first three quarters. We'll get to Tatum struggles in a, in a minute, but Roger Howard, whoever wants to start first, Paul George, what the fuck, like we're here now, right? Like, yo, is this, is this going to be a thing? How long can we bank on this? Are we happy to see it? What are the emotions of seeing what Paul George did before we get to the pistons run and how they got through this. And we'll get to them in a second. But we should have an appreciation for the OGs, you know, from the old heads here. Howard. Um, the glass half full, excuse me, let me go to the glass. The glass half empty part of this is the, um, Paul George had a night like that. And they're not going to be a ton of them at his age, probably. And you still lost. Oh, that's alarming. The glass half full part, though, is Jason Tatum had an absolute stinker of a game. And unless you want to start going down the dark path of like, ooh, what if he's not himself anymore? Um, I don't think he's going to have that many more nights like that. So I think the encouraging thing for the Celtics is Paul George can still do that. Biggest debut for eights, eight Celtic in history. Most points scored for a Celtic making his debut in history. Um, little Russell, and Larry Bert, nah, Paul Pierce, uh, direct, the record he broke was, uh, was by Chris Stapps for Zingus, by the way. Uh, Zingus get the fuck out of here. So that's a great debut by Paul George and like a really encouraging sign overall. And no, he's not going to score 38 on most nights for them. But to the extent that you, you know, traded your finals MVP and that the hero of last season, Jalen Brown for a guy considerably older and, you know, a trade that was obviously a shocker and questioned and criticized and picked apart all summer. Like, I think Paul George acquitted himself pretty well. I don't think we're going to see a lot of nights like this from Jason Tatum. I think we saw enough when he came back from the Achilles last season to Rajas Shagrin. Um, like we saw that the old Jason Tatum was still there. And then he got hurt at the end of that series. And okay. He's had the whole off season. I don't think tonight is some indication that somehow this is still the Achilles thing. Like I think you just had a bad night. And he looked a little passive out there. And it, listen, in fairness, that passivity could be related to coming back from the Achilles. But I don't remember him looking that passive when he came back late last season. So I don't know, I don't know. I would like to counter that I real quick. I think of the first half. He looked very much in command. I think I put in a chat. Like he looks really good. I think the second half was bad. But like one of the things that I loved about him, we talked about this in the previous segment. Like Tatum looked like a hub in the first half, right? Like the way making ability was there. I don't think he was looking for contact or or didn't think he was putting the ball in the deck as much in driving. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, especially down the stretch in the second, especially down the stretch in the second half, for sure. I will, I will grant you that, especially there was a, I think it was about, I wrote it down somewhere. I think it was like two minutes left or it was during that, that, um, that pistons run, which we're going to get to in a second. But it was during that pistons run where Tatum had an opportunity to go to the cup and get an easy back. I think they might have been down four or two. And he just settled for it three. And now I know that's Mizzoula's offense. But that's the annoying part about, you know, the modern NBA is like, I'll get you a bucket real quick. Get your rhythm back so you can shoot those three. Instead, he just shot like a really unconfident three down the stretch and then the defense, you know, had its woes. But there was a, if I'm a Celtics fan, like, I'm not mad at this loss necessarily. There was a lot of things to be happy about. But if you were, if someone was going to tell you ahead of time that, um, between Paul George and Jason Tatum, one of them was going to take eight free throw attempts. The other one was going to take one. You would have thought that the eight was Tatum and the one was Paul George and that was not it was the other way around. Like Jason Tatum was one free throw attempt is not a good sign. Yeah. I'm just saying it was a, if you watched the game, though, it felt like more of a tale of two halves as opposed to like, you know what I mean, it was the end of what we saw. Well, it's weird because like you texted that group, you texted the group text, and I did not agree with you then because I did not think he looked, I didn't, I didn't, I did not think he looked good early. I did not. Okay. Okay. When you text that, I was like, I was like, oh shit. This is interesting. I'm going to get to go out of the night. But I just didn't think, you know, again, I don't think it's as a killies or anything like that. But for whatever reason tonight, it could just be like, hey, we're trying to round it in a shape. I didn't think he had his legs under him. He did not look like he had the lift on his jumper. He didn't look like he had the legs to get on top of the rim in that way. I couldn't forgive me. I didn't break the film down a while. You know, I wasn't sitting there like rewind in every clip. But I didn't see any coverages where they were throwing multiple bodies at him to like completely prevent him from getting where he wanted to go. And in the NBA, when you're that level of player, if they're basically playing you man-to-man and you gotta punish him. You gotta be on top of that rim a little bit, bro. Like, you got to get there, you know, and I just didn't see him doing that. I will say to you, though, that he did distribute well. Like, he was, you know, he was finding people and, and, you know, they were knocking down some shots. He did do that. Okay. But like, make no mistake. The Celtics don't work with him being that. Yeah. Like, that's that they can't win within being a distributor and and being the hub. Like, they need the dude. And so I tend to agree with how I don't I don't think this is going to be something that, you know, you're going to see more often than not. He just didn't play great tonight. Pultures is a good fucking basketball player, man. Like, he's old, but like, he's gone, man. Like, yeah, when he's on, he's, he's, it's a beautiful game to watch, bro. And he was cooking. He's a shot maker, right? And, and I would agree with how it again, you're probably not going to see that too often. But it was, don't make him watch tonight. Yeah. What's the blueprint here? Right? Because on the surface for me, Roger, and we'll get to beck in a second. But like, on the surface level to me, it looks like a different, for the Celtics, at least a different remix of what last season was, right? You have a high volume shooter that is an all star that you have to basically build an offensive round with different types of schemes and different types of things. Can you kind of compare or contrast that for this season of what the Celtics should do because like last year, you know, they had You know, Jalen Brown, you know, he's gonna score a lot of points on any given night And then we're just gonna figure it out and piece around it with what you know, with Peyton Pritchard And a lot of our ball handlers and a lot of our playmakers that are secondary We're just gonna figure it out that way. Is that the same as it could be this season? They're like yeah, I mean it's super similar I mean you've got the one you got the one guy that In theory is is the one that you're gonna expect to do the heavy lifting in terms of scoring the ball You know, and then everyone else slots in after him the differences and I've said this before I You know as great as Jason Tatum is I'm gonna be interested to see How he operates in that if if Paul George isn't a true number two anymore now Paul George like Let's say he doesn't have what he had tonight, but he's gonna be 21 a night Let's say well, you got yourself a number two there like I like Jason Tatum being the number one. You got yourself a number two But I think Jalen Brown was uniquely wired to be the number one When you don't have a number two and I'm not sure that Jason Tatum is it's not a knock on Jason Tamey and a lot of dudes would do that They're not a lot of my fuckers that go out there and be like you know, just give me the ball get out the way Like you know and and I think Jason, you know, Jalen Brown. It's kind of like wired like that Like I just want to do this. Let me show you all I could do that and so you know It's just gonna be interesting to see how it works when you plug a different personality In into that same role, right? That's another thing to hour that I that I also am fascinated by like the other thing is And I'm not in a locker room every day none of us are right, but it at least seems on the surface that Jalen Brown somebody is gonna get in your ass, right like it seems like the locker room is a lot more passive now Right this on the surface I'm talking about like from what I see on TV when I go around and we're at the arena when I see them once a year Right you have now your leadership went from Jalen Brown who sets a tone in a certain way And then you have a leadership now of Tatum and Paul George Which seems a little bit more passive on the surface, right? Like I'm really curious to see how that's going to Play itself out of the season. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know I do think that you know like Tatum and Brown were very clearly different guys as players and just the way they're wired I agree with that and I do think Though there were murmurings along the way that maybe you know There was some friction there or maybe they didn't get get along that well Whatever it was like maybe that was a healthy friction like they think that you can have that nice creative tension on a team um and Maybe they're gonna miss some of that element that Jalen Brown had a little bit of that feistyness and that fire and that aggression As both a personality and a player and where does that come from without him? Like I think it's a fair question because Paul George is not wired that way. I think on the scoring part of it Like you're gonna expect that Tatum is gonna, you know, be there. They're they're leading score most nights, right? And yeah, who's gonna be along for the ride? And I think like This is just the case more and more in today's league anyway. Most teams don't have like a true old school one two punch You've got one guy who is absolutely your your supreme You know score playmaker offensive generator and then you're you're just you know Denver like some nights. It's your malmurie and some nights, you know, it was Michael Porter Jr And I was it was it was there and Gordon whatever. Yeah, I think that's the Celtics now like Derek Why it's gonna have a 2025 point game now and then Peyton Pritchard's gonna have it now and then Paul George is gonna have it now and then I don't think any of them are gonna have it every single night. The one guy who has to have it every single night is Tatum clearly Yeah, I just don't I you're right on that. That's a great point. I I'm gonna be fascinated to watch because the one dude I'm like Just not skill set. Don't get me wrong. This isn't a skill set conversation of like can you go out there and score like that every night This is more of like a mental. This is just a mentality Conversation like how are you wired? And I I I'm gonna be fascinated to see if he's wired to do that right because like he's always but believe it or not even though we're saying The league doesn't have that. He's always had that Yeah, so it's a comfort level to that. It's been a safe space for him because he always had that like we saw And also Roger when he didn't have that we've never seen Jason when he doesn't have that and by the way Not only did he have a cushion from an offensive standpoint and in a team perspective What the biggest luxury that Tatum had and all of this was there was always someone to blame Whenever shit was fucked up there was always something to someone to blame and that someone was not Jason Tatum Now was it right like there was always something now you are going to have to face that like you as the face now You've been number one everybody's been pushing you up as number one for all these years And you now you don't have that safety that's gonna that's the other fascinating thing is like is it going to how is Tatum going to deal with that? Also on top of the fact that he's coming off of a torn Achilles even though he has played in you know last season But he's still figuring his way back into the fold all of that is fascinating Roger Yeah, it's gonna be interesting It's gonna be really fascinating and and look He might step into that and be like no, I was waiting to like just like Jalen was waiting I was waiting and check me out and if if that if that's who he is then it's it's gonna run pretty much like it ran last year But we're gonna have to wait and see I just I don't know Roger, where were you out on the Celtics coming into the season because like Logan and I did some seasons and preview stuff like some weeks back But we haven't heard from you on this like we I like I don't know how you're viewing the Eastern conference race In general and the Celtics place in it, but like were were you already skeptical? Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I didn't have them Yeah, I mean I don't I don't have a list prepared Howard off the top of my dome of where I'd have people slotted But I don't I don't think they will contend for the Eastern Conference this year You don't you don't see them in that mix with whoever it is now nicks sixers pistons calves I think there's yeah, they'd be at the bottom of a list of teams or in that top of that next category like if I To be fair like I'd have to sit down and I actually like do it a little bit But if that makes sense right like if if they're if we're gonna put them all in the top tier They'd be at the bottom of it if we're gonna create a second tier. They'd be somewhere around the top of the second tier We'll be doing our tears list in about a month. So we'll figure it out You know one of the things that switching gears to the pistons But I will try to figure out its transition through that But one of the things that like in Isaiah was telling us this prepod Just the annoyance of the defense of the Celtics right and leaving just guys open for in the corner right because Missoula over the years in Isaiah talked about this and we've all seen this has this propensity to just be like Oh, you can't he's a former player. So he's like you can't shoot. Fuck it. Well, we're gonna leave you I have the fuck open. That's what's gonna happen right and You know jivante green happened 19 points on the second half and just balled out and just let help lead a 23-0 run Him and Duncan Robinson just went nuclear So on that aspect, you know the pistons were very successful But it was funny because I can't now that I'm talking through this I came away from this game skeptical of both teams Right because I had the same question marks of the pistons early on in the game like damn Kade cutting him Is he's the only offense here so far? How is he going how can we get this do some help? Can we get this do some help? And then Jalen Durin, you know, he did his thing tonight But it's also like he's just this big bruising big from another era. It seems like and I feel like the pistons are still gonna have the same amount of problems that they had or the same types of problems that they had last year They just came up you know had a great win and just had like you know the third quarter of or the fourth quarter of ages But I still feel like same old pistons and am I am I wrong on that? If I'm wrong again on that riser of my own watch on this because I didn't know I mean I didn't feel amazing like yeah They're gonna be a 60-win team that I'm gonna respect Look they looked they looked like they look a lot of last year except they made threes in the second half of that game Right like you got you got Duncan made shots and and and you know I say joe was great as well. I say a joe Yeah, you had you had people making shots um and when that happens and What they really did in the second half was just turn up the defensive pressure and intensity They they scrapped for every inch they ball pressure better than anybody. I see maybe okay See does it like that at times you know as soar Thompson is a fucking minutes defensively dude. What's all about his office But he was a fucking miss today Yeah, but they all I mean they all are out there guarding like that now he's got special gifts that let him do things that other people can't do but The the collective was guarding like they were up. They were they were they were challenging you They were making you work for every cut making you work to get to a screen like not not to use it But just to fucking get there and set the screen they were making you work to do that and that took its toll Um, and that's the way they have to play like that's that's not even just Detroit from last year, dude. That's Detroit from my generation Detroit. That's Detroit from the generation before me. Like that's the way they that's the way they hoop that's what their fans respond to. Yeah, they in a perfect world, you get another guy who can create like I we talked about J. Dub in the first segment. You put something like that with Cade and you're you're obviously you know, a lot better as an offensive dynamic. If you had another person in there, they could really come on. Wait, how are you are you talking about a who's a Kyrie Irving? Maybe would Kyrie Irving help out? What's that? Um, yeah, yeah, no, like a skill set like that for sure. Like, you know, I don't know where Ky's at. Like, you know, you, you know, I love Ky, you know that. But like, you, you, you, you, you, you don't have to know where he's at in terms of what he's looking to get out of it and stuff like that. But yes, a skill set like that with them would be, would be really, really beneficial to them offensively. But in its absence, if they are making shots and they're getting perimeter play that guards and makes shots and you know, Cade can operate now because there's space from the shot making and they defend like that. No, that's a recipe for a lot of wins. Whether that wins a chip or not, that's a different story. But it is a recipe for a lot of wins in the NBA. You're right. I mean, they did, they were, I think, 17th, three point shooting last year. Um, they were a team that did have that ceiling. If they can, if I say a joke and Duncan Robertson, I'm not expecting that from Javante. He's, he's a solid player. I'm just not expecting that outburst every night. But if they can continue to have shooting and just be fucking physical, dude. Like, just kick the shit out of everyone. You are going to get around 55 ones. What does you think of of the, the pisses performance back? Well, I mean, look, we talked a little bit ago about, you know, Chet Holmgren came back in with kind of something to prove to everybody after the way we last saw him and his same goes for Jalen Durin, right? Like, not only just an absolute like disastrous postseason for Jalen Durin, but then it leads to a standoff and a really uncomfortable summer about his contract. He finally gets that done, you know, um, very low on the preseason too. Yeah. But like, what it was a 22 and 9 for him tonight. Like, that's a pretty nice statement of like, yeah, I can still do this. I'm here. I'm good. We're fine. He encade hooked up a few times. Like, that's, that's still kind of part of their bread and butter is, is those two going, uh, going, uh, you know, driving it at teams. And then, you know, they broadened Isaiah, Joe and John Collins took, I think to, to kind of give them a little bit better spacing. And the funny thing is like, neither of those guys had a huge game tonight, but they did. It was kind of the, you know, Cade being able to drive an attack and during at the rim and then spacing around them that, that formula worked just not with the two guys that they brought in to help with that. But like, I think those guys will on a given night and then up being Duncan Robinson and Javante Green, guys they already had. But like, um, I, this to me that looked like the same pistons, a team that that as Roger noted, like, they're built to win a shit ton of regular season games. And they won 60 last year for a reason that will probably come down. If for no other reason, then we don't have tanking teams anymore. Presumably, we're all kind of assuming that right now. But the pistons could, could again be and should be a top four team in the east in the regular season, whether that's going to translate to a deep playoff run is, is a different question. But, um, this, this team is, is, is built to, to turn out wins. Roger, what do you think of the startups and like offensively, right? Because one of the things that for both the brothers and the twins that I get right where it's, and we're, we haven't seen, we haven't seen them in this season yet. Like, we're not going to talk about him until the next episode. But with those two guys, there's a glaring thing that they need to do, which is to diversify their offensive game and a sort of just look the same, right? Like, and we'll see, this is one game, but he very much looked the same and, you know, Joe was literally letting it. They're not guarding him. Like, makes it tough on your face. It makes it tough. And it is no longer like he's not no longer on a rookie deal, right? Like they're, they're paid him to continue to try to was sin. And on one hand, he's, like I said, he's a monster defense. He was making, and he, he was making some crazy defensive plays. And he had the 360 dunk with the athleticism is off the charts. But like, they need him to be some sort of offensive threat beyond the arc. Like, that just has to happen. And it just, it's, it's a little disappointed. It's not. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's not, not, I mean, not this year. That's not, I mean, he, look, I, I don't mean to oversimplify this, but I'll tell you, I'll, I'll watch, I'll watch you for 20 minutes. And I'll tell you, if you're not even looking to shoot at three, you're, we don't have, we don't have action, bro. Like, you know, he said the same thing about our men last year. We don't have action. That doesn't mean we won't have action in the future. But like, the first hurdle is getting you to shoot him, dude. Like, we got to convince you that you can and, and you should be a willing shooter. Um, so like, you know, there are possessions tonight and how, how it affects Detroit is like, you know, Cade's trying to play on the strong side of the court. Say that's like the left side of the court. And you're getting like a, you're getting like a hot, you're getting like a hard hedge. So the big that's connected to the screen is showing up the floor, making it, you know, Cade can't turn the corner. He can't really split. He's got his man chasing him. So you're in a soft trap, essentially, you know what I mean? You're going to spit that ball out and get it moving across the court. Um, and, and your big is on a roll. So the low guy on the weak side, you know, has some, some work to do to come over to take away that role. So when you get it to that weak side, it's a swing swing because that weak guy is, is guarding the, the weak corner. And he's not even in the weak corner to get the swing swing. He's creeping all the way in to like the short corner on the weak side, just killing the space in on that, allowing the closeout to like, yeah, it's hard to describe it. He's basically playing both because he's taken away the three, and he's in the pass and lane for the swing swing because instead of that swing being straight down the sideline, that swing is now coming on a diagonal back to the rim. And so now you're in the way. You can't even make the swing swing. It, it, I mean, look, he's so incredible defensively and there are guys that have those other worldly gifts that it's still worth it. Like it's not even a question. It's worth it. But it does put you in a tough spot at times. And when you can get gameplay in for like in a series, you know, people are going to have a lot of fun with that. Well, that's the other thing. Like the offensive action that you describe of the swing swing action, like, that's the same thing that the sixers were doing with VJ Edgecomb, but he was hitting those threes. Like, he's looking to shoot because he can provide that spacing. Asar can go into the dunker spot, but he could like, just like VJ, but he's staying there and it's fucking up everything, whereas like VJ Edgecomb shows like the blueprint of what that could be. Like I could be in the dunker spot, but I can also like just when the spacing allows for it, I can hit this three and keep them honest. He's not even that's that's what's disappointing here is like you know what this the summer what you have to do. We don't need you to clips and Instagram posts. We need to see it in the game. And that I think that that's what what gets annoyed and really grinds my gears, Russia. That unlocks him right to be another level player. Like he's still a very, very valuable NBA player. But that unlocks you and takes you to another level. As he as he is right now as an offensive player, he's super athletic. You saw the 360 lay. He had actually hit a tough little like, you know, that coming across the lane, little middie off balance to like, I don't know if it's sealed it, but it was a big shot down the stretch. What I'd say to a player like that is if you're not going to be a shoot don't stand still dog, you got to be an incredible cutter. Like you have to be every time they don't account for you, you have to be somewhere that punishes them. You know what I'm saying? Like you can't you can't just be the in the corner not being guarded, allowing five to guard four. You can't do that. So if you're not going to shoot it, don't be out there. Cut your ass off, be in really opportunistic areas around that rim, which I think he does pretty well. His brother does it really, really well. Like they they just wind up cutting and and before you know it, they've kind of like, you know, I don't know like what do you call that little baseline cut? Like they're just coming around the baseline and then and they're on top of the rim. You have to just be a master of that until we can get him shooting that jump shot because you got to make you got to keep teams honest. Man, if you're not keeping them honest and and you guys aren't the most gifted offensive team to begin with, it makes it really, really difficult for Kate and those dudes to do what they want to do. We'll see what happens to your point on that. I'm excited to see what I'm in does tomorrow night when you guys get this podcast because you could he's going to have a point guard. I'd imagine that that rockets offense is going to have some level of diversification and some cutting going on with a point guard. So we'll see, but I'm excited to see that evolution from men and I'm excited to see the evolution of world. Real ones throughout this season, okay? There's a great first episode. Great to see you guys. You know how we do every Tuesday, every Friday, Spotify, Netflix, wherever the fuck you get your podcasts. We gonna be here. All right. Thank you guys. Any last words? Howard, Roger, any last words you get the hell out of here? - Good to be back. - Good to be back. - That was calling me. - Okay, all right, all right. His pillow's calling him. I'm gonna try to go to sleep sometimes. Well, I'm still jacked from this great NBA season that we have on our hands. All right, all the shits. See y'all soon. Bye. 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