Thomas Frischknecht Interview

Hello and welcome to another week of action a mountain bike World Cup. The mountain bike World Cup. The UCI Mountain Bike World Cup. Put the big old fat tires on. I'm confident going in that I could have a good race and possibly win. I used to love racing. I looked the feel I'd get. Ripping like bike, watching everybody else fall behind me. And race like this, like beyond the best dude. The top athletes in our field. Obviously it took the best from all over the world to beat me. Who really is the best? Like put it to the test. Go. You don't see no pulling over. This is just racing. Fat. Svetsh's scales that. But do that squeeze there. Don't do it. You got one second to make it. Let's go. Racing will continue to be booming. Kids are interested in it. You don't just do this because there's nothing else to do. You do it because it's like someday this is going to be nature. Fishing, welcome to the Dutch Dutch podcast. I have been lucky enough to do some social media for Scot Tram. And I've seen a lot of the workings of your team. And I got to say it's very impressive. I understand the reputation you have of running probably the best World Cup team. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got here and how you started the team? Well, I don't think we're running the best World Cup team. I would not agree on that. But I would say we're running the team with the most bonding since the existence of this team. Or let's say the highest team spirit in a way. Of those teams. And that has a good reason I grew up. When I was 20 years old, I was the first European that went to the United States to raise nobunnationals. That was even like, just like when 1990, when the sport of Mumbai basically started to grow or get international. And I was lucky enough to be in a team that had this family vibe, a team richy, where I could call my teammates my best friends. We were traveling through the States like a rock band and like everyone was just like so close to each other. And because we all felt like a rock band traveling, racing, we also had the great success with that team. I won a couple World Championship medals in my early, at the age of 2021-22. I was a civil medalist at World Championships in India, because there was no under 23 back then. And won the World Cup at the age of 22 and 23, the overall. And at the same time, we had the Women's World Champion, with Lucy Matys and the World Champion with Henry Tiani. So we were like one, two in the man's and one in the women's at World Championship, for example in Bromant. So we were by far the strongest team but with the smallest budget. But we were kind of such a good group of people together that we, because we enjoyed being together, we also performed at excellence. And I think that culture, I try to implement as much as possible. Now these days it's running a show like World Cup team is not that much fun as it used to be in the early 90s. I have to admit, but whenever possible, I try to build an atmosphere in the team with the staff where people feel comfortable. And when that's the case, I think that's a good foundation to then also perform well. Yeah, and is that something you, by selecting the staff or by how you interact with the team? Like what is the actual things you do to build that culture in the sport? It's not that simple that you could answer this in a short sentence. It's a puzzle. It's all these, many wheels you have to turn and adjust to find you to get it the way you want it to be. And we also, like sometimes I'm not on the right track and need to adjust. It's a constant fine tuning to make it the way I would like to have it. Yeah, and I guess it's constantly changing as well. It's constantly changing as well, especially now. It's changing a lot. But in my opinion, it's a good way because we become of an era where we were just counting woke-up wins every season, having Nino Shooter on the team. So on the performance side, it was kind of like an easy game for me or for the team having the best mountain biker in the world on the team that was like making sure we get podiums and wins frequently. Now we have a completely different situation, but in a very interesting and good way too with the younger team. Yeah, and how did you select this new generation of riders after Nino? Because I guess you've been knowing Nino's going to retire for a while. And the riders on the team now have been on the team for a few years, apart from Fabio who signed last year. What in a young rider makes you think that they will be a good fit for the team? At very first, I kind of look at young riders of how they ride in the race, how they move, how they sit on the bike, and how good their technical skills are. Okay. Because all the rest you can work on, but the technical skills you kind of have to have at the age, when I'm going out to watch it on the 23 race, and that's what I check out first. And then I want to get to know that person and get to know the personality of a young athlete. So that's what I did with Emily and that's what I did also with Björn. Yeah. We also had Martin Vidar, for example, on the team traveling with us to two World Cup races, hoping that he would then stick with Scott and stay with us. And he almost decided then, because there was some money involved to go to specialise. So before I want to get to know the person and I also want to get the athlete know what they get into. I think that to make them the final decision, it's only in our benefit if they get to know the team and they get to know the staff and the ambience in the team to hopefully make the decisions to come and join the team. I don't know, I can't speak for other teams, but these days they, first of all, the teams or those who make selections of riders, they look at numbers. You know, also when young athletes now apply for the Scott's RAM team, they send in the files with their numbers and I'm not really that interested in that stuff. So I'm going to look at personality, the riding skills and the rest, I think we can work out. Yeah, because it is definitely a team where you sign riders and then you do develop them. And the riders often on the team for a lot of years. How do you work with the riders to develop them? Like what involvement do you have with them? I think I leave them a lot of freedom. I'm not a dictator who tells them everything what to do, but I believe by the time an athlete derives to the elite category and he is kind of on the on the short list of my team to join the team, he must have done or she must have done something right. There must be some talent around. But the people who got that athlete to that point has a team around like a coach, has maybe a family or has worked with people to get them to the point where they actually look attractive for a elite team. So we don't have a coach on the team. We don't have a performance coach on the team. We don't have any a part of the mechanics and physios, where I think we are top notch on that part. But the rest, I try to leave to the athletes to build some responsibility for themselves to work with people. If someone needs a nutritionist, then the athlete should go out and find the right person to work with. I'm not saying we have a nutritionist that is looking after the whole team and everybody has to eat the exact life that our nutrition is saying, same with the coach. So each athlete on our team has a part of this team's squad's RAM, which I more see as an infrastructure team in a way to bring them to the races, to support them. at the races with great mechanics, with great equipment, with great physio and the team that works around at the race. But in between my athletes, they work with their individual team. Each one has his own coach, his own nutritionist, if there is one needed. I think right now we only have two persons on the team that have an nutritionist. If you need a mental coach, go out and find your mental coach. But I'm not supplying my mental coach from the team that then kind of tries to help everyone. So I leave a lot of freedom and I do this on purpose because I believe and that's how I build my career. And athlete is like a startup company. And you have to be you own your own startup company and that's you, you athlete. And you have to learn what can I do to be interesting to the market, you know. So each one has to also find out how to work with Instagram and we can we can maybe advise here and there and ask, hey, you could do better here. Or it's not like I leave them absolute freedom. I'm still kind of like overlooking and say, hey, maybe you should try to get some help there or I don't know. But it's a startup company that each athlete owns and they should be take over responsibility themselves. What I don't like is like road racing. They kind of put the athlete on the bike and then they tell him with how many watts they have to pedal till the finish. Then they get them off the bike. They don't have to do anything but riding a bike. And then I think they also get a little bit, little bit lost in a way when when the career is over. Yeah. So how I started my career, there was basically, there was basically everything was in development. The bikes did develop usually but also there was no such thing as a professional mount bike athlete. You kind of had to find out your own way how to eat, how to train. I never had a manager, my whole career. Yeah. I never had a coach, my whole career. I trade myself. I have never had a nutritionist, nothing like that. But that gave the responsibility to me that had to find out how to do things. In order to do that for two decades or that was then why I learned how to book my flights, how to book or how to manage traveling and all of this, helped me to be then a team manager from the day I started this team. Yeah. And maybe for those who don't know, I started the team at the age of 32 when I was still racing. I was still winning World Championship medals, kind of as a team owner, team mentor, team mate of Nino and continued racing for six years until I then finished my career in 2008. And the next day after I stopped my active professional career, I was just a team manager and still doing the same thing then before managing the team. And was that something you had set up intentionally because you knew that you were going to retire or you just were super interested in it? No, no. This all happened just like it was happened. I followed my godfillings and I started the team and that I thought it was cool to, it was called the Swiss Power Team and it was me as the only elite rider or like with the name. And then we kind of tried to build private national teams so we would give all the best talents in men and women, junior and on the 23th chance to work in a professional field. So we tried to develop the best Swiss athletes with a professional team that was living a bit of my name but I kind of, and my know how. Yeah, for example, Florian Fogel was on the one of the first members of the team. He went to Olympics and won World Championship medals and World Cups. Nino Schubertter was on the second year so with Nino I've been working since 2003 so quite some time now. And how did you meet Nino? What was the origin story there? Well, the origin story there was he was just the best of his category and that's why we picked him. Yeah. That's this simple. And at what point did you know that he was going to be the greatest mountain bike rider? I knew it from the moment we had the very first training camp in February 2003 when he just joined the team. We had the training ride in Toscini at training camp and that's a place where I'm on my home trails. I was leading the tour with my young teammates on the wheel and the first descent I went down. I didn't go full gas but Nino was the only one that was able to stay on my wheel. And then the second descent I figured out, now I go a bit harder and still couldn't drop him. And then I was like, wow, this little kid, he was 17 years old, this little kid is quite fast on the bike. And then I went all out on the trail I did 1000 times before and I've been training there with other pros at high level. And because it was my kind of home turf nobody could follow the wheel on those trails on the descent. And I went all out and he just stayed on my wheel. And then from that moment on I knew he was something special. Yeah. And then I got not developed the physicals as he then developed later on but his technical skills were there from the very first moment. And he was just not to say that you can tell at the age of 17 that he becomes Olympic champion and 10 times World Champion. I didn't expect him doing that but I knew from that moment on that he has special skills. And have you had that feeling with other riders since then or has that just been completely a standalone? To be honest, no. Hasn't he? The results also prove that he was something special and he is something special. And do you still think that the technical aspect is so important for the racing? Because people say nowadays that everyone is at a good technical level and you won't win a race through a technical descent or through just your technical ability. That is probably true because the sport got a lot more complex. I think back in the days it was probably easier to make a difference on the descents. Also because back in the days there was more of a longer descents basically. Longer loops, longer laps and longer climbs and longer descents. Now on this mini descents, you can probably make two maximums three seconds on a descent. And then if the other person has the legs, we'll close the gap and we'll be back on the wheel. So do you think the race is a one nowadays? It's on the physical side. First of all, you have to be super complete now these days. Everyone in the top 20 is a super bike handler. You don't get there anymore without good riding skills. And the rest is then the physical part. Or I would still say no, most importantly is the head. The mental part. Because everyone is riding so much at the limit that it's a mental game at the end. And what? Physically, they're also close together. Technically, they're also very close together and at the end it's the mental strengths that makes the difference between the winner and second place. And do you think that's the mental strength of just who wants to win more or strategy or who can keep focused and calm, who cannot make mistakes? What part of the mental aspect is it that's so important? See the mental part, mental strength comes in waves too. And it is a lot of it has to do with how you felt that the weeks coming into an important race in your training house, house to situation at home. But the family, with your girlfriend, with your boyfriend, with everything around you. And there, I think that the team again comes in place where you can only have mental strength. And mental strength, if the whole package, if your world is just going the way you want it to, and you are confident going into a big race. And it's impossible to always keep it that way. you know there's always influence of maybe the better you know maybe you think you're better in the dry than in the rain like here in Leoghung there's like just the weather itself will decide with 50% or not going into race with with good mental strengths another 50% will do well because they know hey this is my chance I'm good in in these conditions so it's a whole the whole wave of sometimes you are strong in your head because everything is going your way this is the famous spiral that's either turning going down or going building up you know and it's super hard sometimes to change that yeah but both you and Nina have had such long successful careers you can't always have been racing and had everything go right in the rest of your life like you must be able to take a situation and make it suit you instead of just waiting for the right situation to come yeah well those races who did where I didn't have the mental strengths I finished not in the top placing but it's not like I had a long career yes but also my my my my oxen towns and races I I should have won and because because of something I wasn't wasn't ready nothing ahead to actually come through as as the winner it takes it takes takes a lot yeah I feel looking at from my experience now over over all these years for women it's even harder to find that mental strengths and why is that there's maybe in women's head or even in a women's body is more going on sometimes than than than with the men's and I would say they're there even more sensitive to to a lot of things that makes them then either mentally strong or mentally mentally we that's that's kind of my experience women have it even harder to find that that really that confidence going into race and being mental strong or if they do it doesn't last forever make it last for a season and then they struggle next season so you see you see also in the performances of basically all the top women in a much more up and down than in the men's field I think yeah that's interesting because I've seen it definitely before where you have a woman do really well for one year and then kind of drop off and sometimes I think it can be kind of attributed to like nutrition and eating to some extent but it's interesting or perhaps that it's just the racing is closer in that people don't tend to just dominate the women's field for huge like years and years and I'm yeah I mean I don't know what causes that if it's a physical thing or a mental thing well that's also there there's many reasons that have an effect and and only one negative effect can already cause a big big damage you know sometimes it's also young athletes on the 23e developing from late teenage year into into a woman you know there's like with hormones and and there's something going on in in a woman's body that that I think in the man's it's a little bit less delicate than for for women yeah do you think that there's much of a difference between men and women in how they're treated in the sport like in terms of how they're paid or how long they're signed on contracts for teams or how many women are signed do you think that could have any sort of effect? I do believe that our sport is one of the few sports in in the world that has it very very equal not to say it's 100% equal but but close to be very very equal price money is is the same like in road racing in in in in in soccer in tennis you name it they don't have same price money for men and women we do have it since two decades I think writer salary maybe not quite the same but still with now team rankings and UCI rankings the points of UCI points of a women count the same as as the ones of a man there's also there I think a very strong balance between men and women that you not often see in other sports yeah and what are your thoughts on women's racing? I read an interview before and you had a very dismissive answer to that question but now that you've been in the sport longer and you've been well longer you've been in it for a very long time but now that you've seen it develop and seen the women's racing develop how do you see it comparing to the men's racing? also there very equal I think last year we can say the women's races were at least not if more interesting to watch than the men's race it has also something to do that now there is it got a whole lot tighter at the at the front end of the race that you could see women see for battling for the win until last lap you know typically 10 years ago it was like one woman dominating the whole season and not just like in the last lap basically from the first lap on and that and that made kind of also that there was no there was not such a big of a that in women's racing then it was in men's racing like in men's racing if you look at time gaps sometimes in November so you're in with one minute 30 you're in 20s down you're in 20s spot you know while in the women's race one minute 30 is separated first from the second yeah so it was the men's racing is a lot still is a more debt to it but the women really got a lot closer and more balanced out that now that it goes a lot deeper now for in the cocktail do you think that could also be that the women have a different style of racing than the men in that the women are slower so the hills they spend more time on a hill than a man so the hills are at longer essentially and that they're less likely to wait for a sprint finish could that play a role in it I don't know that I don't have a generalized it is another they do they do right have a want I have a left last so at the end they spend about the same time finding the name well how about mountain bike riding as a whole do you think mountain bike riding has peaked do you think the best is yet to come what are your feelings on where the sport is the sport right now is at its best as a as a product I believe and you know in a way I love the times that I raised back in the days there was kind of more soul more passion in in the racing but when it when I look at the product mountain bike racing as a sport and the way it showcased now with Warner Bros and the reach we have with our sport we are at the at the place where we can say it has never been better before but talking about the sport in general I hope that we can still attract enough young people to to ride acoustic analog bikes and raise those bikes I'm a little bit afraid that this whole wave of e-bikes kind of destroys the next generation of regular mountain bikers and do you think that's the push coming from the broadcast coming from the market I assume it's not coming from the races no it's not coming from the races and it's not coming from the broadcast it's coming from the market you know just I got at the hotel we run in Toskamy at Mosavek you I just see like people family showing up and then the kids at the age of six seven eight they're already on e-bikes so the dad can go out with them and have have a great ride with them the dad is on a cross country bike and the kids maybe the the mother is also on an e-bike and sure I understand they can do something together and ride together and then I when I ask them they's the dad so but what what's up with the e-bikes the kids on the e-bikes why can't you just go a little bit slower and bring them along on pedal bikes and they said oh no no I mean it's just to start out with now but then when they're old enough they get they get a proper cross country bike and then yeah if a kid starts to ride an e-bike at the age of eight and then you give that kid at the age of 15 a regular pedal bike and then they say fuck you dad so I'm a little bit afraid we lose we lose a bit the the base of our community of what we are calling mountain bike so you're Yeah, well, what if it I mean I agree with you? but just to play it out, what if it just became e-bike racing and it was exactly the same, but everyone was on e-bikes? What would be the issues with that? - I completely disagree with e-bike racing to be, shouldn't be part of what we are doing here. I think we've seen it in other sports, motor sports, there's also motocross. They tried with e-motocross and those machines, they go super fast and they're super cool to ride too, but people want to see the real thing. And the honest thing is, in my opinion, the racing that we do now, to control the engine and kind of to standardize the e-bike, I don't even, yeah, that's the market, but the racing itself should be what we're doing today. - Yeah. - Formula One. Now, the market is also selling or tries to sell electoral cars, all over the world, so the market would be absolutely there. And they even tried the Formula E and they wish it would work, but it just doesn't. Formula One is still Formula One and Formula E is summer. Even the market is in electrobikes and not in fast cars like Formula One. So that's how I see people want to see the athletes battling it out for the winner and not saying, "Ah, yeah, but maybe he just had a better bike." - Yeah, okay. So the risk of e-bikes is one that it becomes so equipment-based and two that starts taking away the use to come into the sport. - So what? - Well, counter-question. What about the Tour de France? Should the Tour de France be on electrobikes? - Yeah, I mean, just because the market is going in that direction. - Yeah. - Exactly. - So what is, say, 10 years, the ideal situation when a cross-country mountain bike riding would be? Like, what would that look like? - I think we still have potential to make the show even bigger, to make it even more attractive, to for spectators, to travel to races, to watch the maybe a bit more, a part of the racing itself, a bit more festival style around. Maybe have some, I don't know, some concerts. Or some other stuff to do. - A party. - A party, people would show up for the complete thing and the racing is kind of like the reason why to go to the place, but things filled around it. I'm sure from a technical aspect, the development of broadcasting will be, it will be just at the beginning. Even we think now, like, wow, if you look at broadcasting at the TV product from today, five years ago, without drones and all this, I think we're in five years from now, we're even a lot further. We may be some POV from Inderase, from the riders. We soon will have radio sound of the athletes talking to the team managers or the other way around, that kind of stuff. I think that the TV product will only get even better from now on. And then, hopefully also, the courses will develop and we can go to races that have a proper mountain by course, like Novimistov, for example. And unlike South Korea, for example. - Yeah. And are you seeing much of a change in the junior development side of the sport and how many people are getting into cross-country, especially with the rise of Enduro and more gravity sports? Is that something that you can see influencing it? - The World Series has quite an impact now on also the calendar of national series races. And that was the national series races was always the fundament of rider development. So first of all, athletes have to have races, events to go to race. That's how they develop. And that's how development teams start to build and that's how cycling clubs start to develop. Young athletes to bring them then to these national series races or like grassroots races. That's a very, very important factor in developing young talents. Looking at Switzerland, we've always had a bit of an advantage because we had since the early 90s a series very established series with the Swiss Cup and a lot of cycling clubs and small development teams did send athletes there. The numbers were always very, very high. And out of this big pool of young athletes, there were always each year riders who developed. So I mean, we now talk about Nina Frooter, but I think Switzerland developed in the women's and men's field, many, many, many others. And they all went through this school of the Swiss Cup competing there at that pretty high level already. And that's why when these guys that did the Swiss Cup, the best ones could also go to the Junior World Championship and win there because if they are the best in Switzerland, they are on a high level also internationally. So now what happens is with the World Series kind of making it a bit more difficult to organize a series that's strong. I think those races have a tendency to get weaker than stronger. And they're, I'm afraid, we are losing kind of the place where young talents are developed. Because they need to be easy. Yeah, not Junior, Junior is already then a established category, but kids at the age of 8, 9, 10, 12, they need race's events to go to compete, competition. That's what makes them stronger and better and to get them into the sport really. So you think that young, it's important to like around 8. I do, yeah, but they should be getting into it. If I look at the Swiss model, they have a skills far cool or how do you call that? - Yeah. - Skills park. - A skills park? - Yeah. - That is 50% of the race. So you get points in the skills park. If you get through the skills bar, you have to lift up some coins from cones, from the ground and ride over between two small, between two pieces of wood and kind of not putting the foot down. So real technical skills only event race competition. Where it's not timed in a way. - Yeah. - And then they have a short cross-country race that is then only 50% of the event. So the cycling clubs or the development teams, they build on a parking lot, one to one, what's at the Swiss Cup on this skills park. And they ask and I think that's why, yeah, they learn in a young age to develop their technical skills. It's at least as important as the physical skills to be up there. - And how about off the bike? How important do you think it is to have things outside of cycling? And I mean, especially for the athletes, do you think they need to have maybe not a backup plan but an idea of something else to do? Or do you think it's dependent on the athletes? Is that something you work at all with the team athletes around? - Are you asking on the professional level or on the development level we just talked? - I guess both. And at what point would you say focus all in on bikes? Or at what point is it important for kids to just, I mean focus on school or other sports? - Well, I repeat, Nino shorters answer to the question, what the young athletes should do to become a pro. Because that's a question I was asked many times and Nino got asked many times. And I mean, I basically replied the same as he did, but he's always saying, hey, sport is a game. - Yeah. - And the game should be fun. So keep it fun as long as you can. Even still in the junior category, you have to have fun doing what you're doing. You have to have fun while you train, you have to have fun doing what you love to do. And that's basically riding a bike. And the serious factor of really performing and start with, you know, start with the right nutrition and the strict training plan and trying to develop into a top athlete should only develop maybe then starting at the, on the 23 category or ideally when you turn a lead. We still have to have some room to develop. And those juniors who already get massage once or twice a week at the age of 17 and they have the lightest, latest carbon bike and do everything to win. They don't have any tools in the toolbox anymore to make the next step to develop each year. So you kind of have to have a little bit something each year that you have yet that you can do better to actually also develop. Yeah. And those who are too serious too early, they usually they're good in the in the young categories, but they then don't make the job it takes in the elite category. So that's another way of looking at at the talented young athlete in the on the 23 category, you've been asking. So what what you what's what's kind of like your how much you train for example, and then there on the 23 riders that train more than Nino shorter. Yeah. And then you think, but what's next year when he's elite, can you still you can't train anymore? So he can't develop me in that. Right. But then you there's still some guys out there that haven't used up their full potential. And these are then the interesting ones to work with because they still have room to develop. Yeah. Can you tell us any any people on the circuit that you could you think that there's a lot of potential for them to you know, untapped potential? Well, I'm keep I keep trying. I'm looking, but it's yeah, it's easier to say than the reality is the reality is complex. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So how have you seen the team change since Nino leaving and what do you kind of hope for it to become in the next few years? That's a good good question. I've been asked a lot in the sense. So a lot of people thought, well, now Nino's leaving Scott's RAM and probably free sheet two as he's doing this for for so long and been with Nino for so long. And I was indeed also afraid of this moment and was having a lot of thoughts of how do we continue. But I can say now in Leo Gaung one third into the C first season without Nino team spirit and me working with this young team has never been cooler before. I really I'm me personally. I feel like I'm in a second spring because I get so inspired of the young people I'm working with now and seeing how Björn develops now and Emily. Emily will also she probably doesn't have the results yet like Björn, but also the whole team got a whole lot younger. And I don't want to say this this respective but in my team now cutting a big tree Nino gave all the others that were on the risk of the tree so much sun that they are growing really really fast. And there is a dynamic in this team now that this is super cool. And I'm really proud of how we made that switch. Some people thought that Scott's Ram is that after the Nino Leafs then you watch No Emesco and you say, "Oh, okay, they're still here." Yeah, and there's like three of them now in the one race and this. Yeah, I mean personally seeing the inner workings of the team it amazes me at how comfortable everyone feels with each other and how supportive the environment feels. Even when you're racing at a top end and I think that that just builds such a supportive environment not only for performance short-term but for like a long career and long-term performance. Yeah, I think you've done a good job. And it is actually it is a family team in that quite a lot of your family is part of the team. How does that dynamic work? Is that something that you kind of plan to happen or has just developed over the years? Planning is, I wouldn't say planning, but again to get the right bits and pieces together you want to work with people you trust, you also want to work. Like one big goal of me is always to keep the team as small as possible, also numbers of staff, you know. So instead of having a chef or a food company serving us as for the food at the races, I just bring my my own wife and yeah that's a part time job. I don't have to pay her and I she's here not because she's cheap because she fits good into the team I feel. And yeah these are the things my sister is doing the back office for me because I'm traveling a lot so she's paying all the bills and doing all the office work. I just do this from on the road, let her work and send her the stuff to work on. Yeah, Andre is a part of the team as an athlete now since 14 years he knows the team inside out and it's been at the moment after me this second longest team member. And so he has also I think built some skills to maybe someday take over some of my responsibilities and job because I'm also in a process to kind of pass over this legacy to an ex-generation. I'm now 56 and I'm not tired of being part of this team or tired to go to the races but I lose a little bit of talent in certain skills where I feel like younger people have to do that work. For example, I until last year I did the social media account of Scott's RAM myself with all the errors in English and this and that but now at the age of 56 I don't have the I found you that does this so much better than me. So there's like a lot of things I need to be also adjusted over time where I still want and will be involved in the team heavily and I'll still remain as the director but there's also some other stuff that I let go to hopefully keep this team running also for the future when I'm not around anymore. Then what do you think it is that makes you keep coming back to the I mean to cross country racing to the World Cup to the team? You must have been to some of these venues so many times and always on the road. It's not the easiest lifestyle. What makes you keep coming back? I think it's just a passion. It's a passion for racing. It's a passion for sport and that's in the blood. That's not something that came somehow naturally. I was understanding that I'm now 56 years old and since I'm born in the kindergarten I was every weekend at the cycling race. My dad was from nearly 20 years of professional cycle cross rider so he raised until 1984 and 1985 I started my career. I went from watching my dad until I was 14 to starting my own career. I was 15 and just kind of like without the break we went the whole family from one race weekend to another. And then yeah ever since I retired from racing I'm the team manager and also go to the races of my son. So it's like there's nobody else I think that that's here that has been at all the World Championships except one in Mount by Racing. And I think there's by far nobody that has so many has seen so many World Cup races that mean. What was the one you didn't go to? I didn't I missed the one in Conberra where Nina won his. I'm from Canberra. You didn't go to that one. I missed that one and I regret. I regret so much because I figured yeah he's now 22 in his first Elite World Championship he will pay his toll but then he won he'll be truly absolute. I missed to see that one life. That was the only since 1990 the only World Championship I didn't see. And what's been your favorite can you choose? My favorite World Championship. Yeah. Oh that's a good question. I think probably one where I performed well myself. Now I would say that one of the best races I've ever seen or the coolest race I've ever been to was Lenser Hider World Cup 2018 when Nina won the World Championship in Lenser Hider. Was a good race. My own races I would say yeah the marathon World Championship in Lugano first time they had in 2003 I won Spring Finish ahead of Barred Rensions that was pretty cool. Also for the fact that the whole family was there and you know sometimes World Championship you fall away and there I had all of my friends and family in my home country and I did work that was super cool. Okay and then just a few more questions and then we can wrap it up and get back to World Cup racing. What is a misconception about the sport that you would like to correct? I think from the outside for those who are not physically at the races it all looks from social media, from the TV coverage you get you get the impression that everything is highly professional. and we are highly professional in in many many things when it comes down to performance, you know we do at least live a professional life similar to pro road racing with nutrition, with training, with trying to perform at the highest there we are at a very very high professional level also equipment wise we are at the level of Formula 1 but then there's there's other things behind the scene that I think we are still down to the ground with the feet on the ground with with many other things yeah like if you see our setup we weren't but naked out here changing in front of the campervan it's not that the high the stars in mountain might racing they're not treated like super stars like they they are in in road racing yeah and you think that's a good thing they have to carry their own back and they still have to wash their own laundry and and I think that is a very good thing they that keeps them grounded and that keeps them living in a normal world and I think people from the outside have an impression that it's a whole lot more professional rock star life than it actually is yeah yeah but really we're all just people and I'm happy with that that's nice and then to finish can you share any maybe funny stories or highlights from your time as team manager of where maybe things were not as professional as they would have seemed you want this to be part of the podcast or instead the podcast on its own because I I can't tell you a story but that's gonna take three four minutes we have three four minutes so after World Championship 2019 in mountain and Canada the team traveled to Snow Shoe for the World Cup finals and Nino with the team with Lars Forster and Kurt McKenneck Andre was there Yonik they had the day in Washington DC and it was time where Donald Trump already made his first circle of turning the world upside down so they actually went in front of the right house put their pants down took a photo and Nino uploaded it on Instagram in stories yeah white asses for the white house that was his comment and then they traveled to Snow Shoe I was driving the Penske truck with all the bikes and luggage from Mount Sinan to Washington and I got got in very very late it was a long long drive and then next morning I check Instagram and I see this post of Nino white asses for the white house I was holy shit this this is this is something I I thought it was really funny but I didn't think it was any any diplomatic or any good you know so I told him hey are you crazy you can't do that it's it's only on story it goes away after the day and sure enough the Swiss newspapers they took a screenshot and there's not many times that Nino should have made the front page of the Swiss newspapers but that day he was like I'm all the newspapers front page it was such a big story and then he got all the phone calls from his manager from from from from everywhere and then that was like the first part and then we had at the condo we were staying right next to us was a guy that who was a big fan of the team and he was working for the FBI he told us oh and he did also hear about that story and but he thought it was funny and then we ask it was actually Brett Kate's mechanic that talked him into Vucci do has a favorite kind of scare Nino a little bit and he said yeah sure so after the short track race where he won he's by the way the only short track race he ever won you know we were at dinner and then it was knocking on the door and then I went to open up the door the neighbor comes in talks to me I was informed about the whole thing and then I go to the dinner table and said you know we have a problem here the FBI is here and he was like he turned like pale and so he was had then a meeting with the FBI guy and he was acting like a Hollywood actor like asking him all these questions so where do you come from where have you been last and then he said well amounts and then Canada what did he do there I did a race what kind of race do a world championship how did you do I want so do you think you have something special notches because you want a world championship so it was hilarious I really had to oh and then he said well I'm sorry but I came up now from Washington DC I have to bring you yeah you have to to bring you for in for more questions please take your two-sprush and what you need for the next 24 hours and that is yeah but I have a race on Sunday and then I can't guarantee that you release by then we now have to go so that whole thing it was like a big show and and you really shitted in his pants yeah you were and yeah then he got he got to a point where he was like shivering and and got so nervous and I had to step in and say it's all a joke it's you little prank wow yeah that worked out well and it was good good preparation for the for the race the next day hey so it was the whole the whole week was nerve-wracking for him and the whole thing was absolutely nerve-wracking for him but that Dres large four-star one and Nina was second so he had one and two so got a happy happy end to the story but no matter what he was still nervous getting to the airport and getting through the gate he was always expecting someone coming from from the FBI to fetch him for what he did but once he was on the plane he was like oh my god I'm free well thank you so much for having this chat and for letting me hear all the inside stories and yeah okay well we'll be back with the mountain bike world cup actions next Monday at 5 p.m. Eastern so long for now