This is His Worst Nightmare Come True

You're listening to a quick ad. You know what else is quick? Selling your car on Carvana. Just put in your vehicle information and we'll give you an offer. Done! No hassle, no negotiation, no guy from an online listing lowball in you. Which means by the time I'm done explaining this, you could have basically done it. Still haven't started? Hey, better late than never. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply. Oh yeah, I mean they purchased him, they queer-eyed him. They still like him, the tech people still like him. Trump I think knows that he is repugnant to voters. And he doesn't admire that. I think he knows he's against him on the war, although he'll stick with him publicly behind the scenes. He was the leaker of all that stuff. Let's be, oh yeah. And he was like, be clear. He was absolutely the, I know this. I'm already laughing because I'm joined in studio by the legendary great friend of the show and great friend of mine. Cara, swisher, Cara, these billionaires, these tech. Wow, you're going right there. Yeah, immediately. These tech billionaires and all the dips shittery that they're only shittery. Yeah, that's a good way to put it at the White House. Yeah. And I think my question for you is this. How much should we pin on these people that are propping up to this fascist? So all of these fascists are able to get power when the elites prop them up. And these elites were on display there. Yeah. My thinking goes, do you guys care about the killing over an egghead? Are you guys okay with that? Well, presumably, yes. They've forgotten about it. They've moved on. They've moved on. I mean, I think one of the things that I, in a message that I say over and over again, and I always say they don't care. Like, everyone's like, well, what are they? I'm like, they don't care. And they think that, I mean, I think they're evil, which I don't. Although it is evil to not care, of course, in my estimation. But I think that's the issue is they don't care. They're only interested in their own businesses and their shareholders. And it's something I say over and over and over again. It, you know, follow the money. And that's what they're doing with Trump there. And, you know, what's incredible about yesterday, they're, you know, of course, the media covers it like, oh, they're here. I'm like, they're always at the White House. When are they not? How many times have you seen them at a lunch at the White House? At the she dinner at the White House? Three months ago at the White House. They're always at the fucking White House. It's like, they live there. And they have like cafeteria privileges. And when I'm, I'm almost like, can we bring a, like, an oil guy in here? Or maybe if we have a new round of assholes, you know, like, I'd feel bad if I were other, you know, oligarchic CEOs, because you don't get to go to the White House. It's always Mark Zuckerberg. They added Dario Amote to Amode. It's, it's Bezos. It's Elon. It's David Sacks. It's Neil Michael. It's always the same groups of them, you know, Sir Gabriel. And they throw him in now. And again, it was interesting. Apple was not there yesterday at this lunch. But it's the same crowd. And they just continue to show up for him, which is really astonishing. So let's break down the psychology of this. So they all unite to go kiss the ring to get favorable contracts. Whatever they want, government. Right. Is there inner competition between them? Yes, it's a Silicon Valley beef. What is happening in Trump? It's like a, it's like a game of the apprentice. Like he, he gets to dispense favors. And they're a lot of it, which I say to people. I'm like, they're not here. They, they, a lot of them in and between themselves don't like each other. Or they're fighting for power or whatever, like a Sam Altman and Adario, you know, that's a very, it's a very tight race. So is Elon Musk who's behind in the AI race, comparatively to them. Then there's Zuckerberg who's trying to come in from the left with his, his adorable little Tomaguchi, Tomagut, whatever it's called. His little charm, his muse charm, you know, which I can't wait till it goes rogue and starts killing people right back. You know, your charm starts like, I think we'll kill people you don't like because they're mean to you. But, you know, they all have their own business interests. And if you keep that in mind, it makes much more sense rather than they want to save us. You know, you don't create something that's an excess that you think or call an existential threat. And then one, say, we're here to save you. So that's like the arsonists say, I just burnt down the building. I'm now I'm here to fix the situation or put it out. Or, and then say at the very next breath, and by the way, by my stock. Well, if there's an existential crisis, why are we making a product that's an existential crisis? Why are you pulling products that are dangerous? And, you know, and some of them, you know, articulated Bill Gates is sort of on a PR round in order to one remain relevant and to give warnings. They're all saying it. Like, this is dangerous stuff. By all means, let's make more of it. Right. Nuclear, it's like, it's like a bunch of people who have nuclear bomb companies saying, let's take care, we'll take care of it, even though we have an economic capitalist interest in proliferating. And the reason why we haven't blown ourselves up after 80 years here, 80 or almost 200 years, is because we had nuclear non-proliferation. Where is that for AI? If it's this serious? Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Jelda mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Maybe it's Mabelie. I completely agree what they say. So Elon Musk is always on, if you look at his ex profile, between, you know, his personal grievances, he's a victim. People are mean to him. He's tweeted about me on mean to him. Yes, he's tweeted about me. Bealings hurt, a lot. What does he call you? A ghoul. An evil ghoul. Oh, I think he's attracted to you. Oh, it does? Yeah, okay. So he ought like a lot of his ex-wife. So, you know, I do. You do. He says, "My heart is filled with hate." Which is, I think I've gotten that as well. You know, I say this all the time. Every accusation is a confession, right? He thinks he's a ghoul. He is his heart is filled with hate. Just whatever he says, you know, do the rubber glue thing. Yeah. I take it as a badge of hope. Yeah, it's kind of stupid. Like, why is he worried about, why is he worried about what I'm saying? He's an old man. Like, yeah. You're going to, like, act like a 12 year old. It's not even good for him. Because I feel like I have something that Elon Musk will never have. But what is that? I would never have an in shape. What? I would never- Sorry, I shouldn't object if I love that. Yeah. I would never not love my child. Yeah. I would pick up a mountain and move it on. The other side of the planet. Yeah. And if I had a trans child, I would think I need to love that child even more. Because so many people are going to leave. So I have something that's invaluable. That he will never, ever have. And my children feel that. And so I, he has a lot of children. He just picks and chooses who is, who is in his favor. I think they're few. I think most of them, from what I can understand, and I know the members of the different families, are terrified of him. Like, they, they will not talk. And they're going to actually, this new Musk movie coming out, Justine Musk, her first wife, who I have a lot of grud for. A mother of Vivian. A mother of Vivian, who called Jenna is how Vivian is her name. But she is in this Musk movie. And at great risk to herself talking about these issues. She's been a very quiet person, not been out in public, but she's defending her child. And, you know, Vivian gives her great credit for that like in doing that. But it seems like that's sort of the lowest bar on a parent thing is to love your child. Right, he can't even do that. No, no. He's incapable of doing. He's always been that way, you know, around. I was recounting years ago, and I didn't pay attention to the time. I have super macho sons. So like, you know, very like sports, that kind of thing. And it's not because I'm a lesbian. I grow super macho sons. They just happen to be, right? And if they were different, although my oldest son has turned into a lesbian. He wears, you know, he lives in San Francisco. He wears crocs and he has a Subaru fine. I'm accepting of this. Also a girlfriend who's also equally like they're very hippie kind of thing. But it's funny when he, when I said you can buy any car you want for college, you picked a Subaru. I'm like that car. Like really? Can't you pick a better one? The Apple doesn't fall apart. Yeah, although no, I don't like a Subaru. I know, but it's in his jeans. I understand, but my other son of course wants a Corvette. Because he's graduating college soon. Where do I get off the thing? Oh, you know, I remember him making a remark about my sons. Like how'd you get your sons so manly or something like that? And I was like, you know, I don't know. They're just that way. Like it was weird at the time. And now in hindsight, from what I understand about what happened with Jenna and other of his children, he remarks a lot if they're too effeminate, if they're too, you know, not the way he imagines a man to be. So wonder why that's so triggering to him. - You know, leave that up to the psychiatrist. - He needs, he's in desperate need of psychological. Probably something, if you know if I talk to him again, I would say what happened to you? And I don't mean recently, I mean back then, there's something happened to you. Some, at some point early in his life that made him like this. Maybe it was a father, maybe it was the mother, maybe it was something else. And I would love, it's not an excuse, it was an explanation 'cause something did. And I don't think we spend enough time plumbing that as reporters, like happen to you. Why did you get this way? Why do you think empathy is toxic and suicidal? Who put that in your fucking head? Like where did it come from? How do, you know, it may have been himself. He's an adult man. - I think that the self preservation that they need in order to do these nefarious acts is where the empathy is toxic, is where the tech oligarchs and the Christian nationalists combine, because these Christian nationalists, they have a Jesus problem 'cause Jesus was a radical empath. And the tech, so they want to do eroding laws that erode civil liberties that do not lift up the marginalized. So that girl, Ali Beth Stecky, I think her name is. She's a big Christian influencer. She wrote a book, "Toxic Empathy" and tied it all to Christian faith. - Yeah, that's the new thing right now. - So Elon, for example, Elon wants to jump on that as well, because he has nefarious plans for the United States. And mind you, he's always talking about communism. - Right. - But I want to play this clip for you and let's dissect this. - Which, Ali somewhere? - Play the clip. - What's your job on this? - People looking at this, they're worried, they're looking at a laptop for a job. What, what are they going to do in the future? - Well, I think it is worth highlighting the positive benefits of AI, which we'll pull the S.I. on me. - Yeah. (laughing) - Superintelligence. I think my bottom is like the outcome is the nature of abundance, where we don't have just your personal basic income, we have universal high income. - That right there, a world of abundance. We're basically, he's admitting, we're gonna take all the jobs, so we get all of those wages. - Right. - And then you're gonna get universal high income. - Yes, that's the most thing. - Unfillenthropic person, rich person on the planet is Elon Musk, wants us to believe who also is anti-group of unfillenthropic people there. By the way, Jeff Fezos is being put to shit. They're all being, if you added up all of McKenzie Scots, this is Jeff Fezos' ex-wife. - Yes. - If you added all of it up that she's given away, they're still down in a core, even if you include Bill Gates, who has been very generous along with Melinda Gates, they're tiny compared to what she's done, $26, $7 billion. - So this is interesting to me, and we need to pay attention to this. - Yes, I pay a lot of attention. - We're basically saying, we're gonna, AI's gonna capture everybody's jobs, meaning we get the wages of those jobs with our robots. And then in exchange, we're gonna give you this universal high income, which number one is communism on its face. Everything, we're gonna capture all the means of production and then what you need will be provided for you. But it also dovetails with what I've read about Peter Teal, talking about one ringleader of all this. - He wants a techno, feudal governing. - They're in charge. - Yes. - Yes, the price we pay is they're the kings. They're the kings, they're the techno kings. That's what they call them, you know, that's a word, techno. - Techno kings. - Techno kings. - Okay, so yeah, I don't wanna spell it, but it's called techno kings. But that's how they want it, 'cause they know better. If you read Teal to me is the smartest among all of them, and he's been on a real religious journey recently. - Yeah, it's weird, it's weird, it's strange. And he looks like his face is melting like he's from, Ragers of the Lost Ark, when the guy looks in the cup and in, the Nazi looks in the cup and in. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Again, I shouldn't object if I, people, but there it is. - He looks strange, like he looks. - Yeah, we're in Trump's America, right. - Everyone remarks on it, pretending is, I don't know what happened, like, 'cause he looked relatively normal before. But you could say about half of Hollywood, so I guess. Anyway, he really does, they do believe, and in Elon's case, he's not nearly as smart as Peter Teal, like that white Peter Teal is quite crafty and smart, and, but his philosophy is fucked up. Like, it's very bright, it's fucked up. And one of the things that's interesting, he gave an interview last week to Mateus Duffner, who just basically fileted him the whole time. He's the head of Vaxel Springer. You know, we didn't push back at all. That said, you know, essentially evil is good, 'cause evil is effective. That was one of those. - That's all that. - And I understand him saying that. Like everyone's like, can you believe it? I'm like, uh-huh, yeah, he says that all the time. The other thing was, you know, well, I, you know, I called the Pope the Antichrist. The Pope is pushing back on all this quite well, and they don't know what to do, because it's not antitech, it's quite pro-tech. It's pro-tech for humanity, very different. And, you know, I shouldn't have called it, maybe it was harsh to call a antichrist. I'm like, you think, you know, you know, sir, like anything. - Yeah. - But he is, and then he called him a communist. He called him a creature of the Communist Party. Meanwhile, they're all having dinner with guess who? - The top communists. Yeah, all of them were there, as well as the Fox News people. This is all Supreme Court justices. - Right, right, right. They have not been antite, you know, verbally antitech communists. Recently, they always suck up the Supreme Court justices, no matter the administration. The, you know, if there's a Democrat, the Democrat ones will be there. - Yeah, yeah. - Whatever, I don't care. They're captive. Then we need more of them, so they're not quite as captive. But they, you know, you had Jesse Waters there, Mr. I hate communists, hanging out. - Lady Waters. - Lady Waters. - Lady Waters. - He is very delicate, isn't he? - He's free to tell, it's free to tell. - There's a lot of time. - I'm talking about men. - He does. - He loves men. - Yeah, he talks a lot about men. - Not that there's anything wrong with that. - Nothing wrong with men. - I talk about men a lot, too. - Yeah, exactly. He has an admiration of men in a way that's unusual and creepy. But one of the things you notice is they always have an answer. And then the promises are never capped. Like one of the things Elon had talked about, and you'll note this in this musk movie coming up, is how many times we're gonna have autonomous cars. He said it to me eight to nine times. It's next year, Kara. Next year we'll be on Mars. Next year we'll do this. He just makes shit up. And I don't mind that on some level. I'm like, good, be a dreamer. Have your dreams. And visibility cloak would be mine, right? That kind of thing. But I'm not making one. Like I'd like an invisibility cloak is different then. So he's just like, let me tell you how it's gonna go. Just so you'll give in to us. 'Cause this is what you're gonna get. But it's very much like Trump promises made, none promises undelivered. - Health care in two weeks. - Right. - You know, it's not over in two weeks. - His latest idea of a steel mill is insane. It's gonna, they make it for half the amount in China. And even less, like, and less in Europe. Europe makes steel cheaper than we do. Why are we doing this? So he's doing it as a path to his people. But it's non-economic. None of it is economic. A lot of this stuff is just nonsense really. - Financially at least. - These nice dreams. - It's a nice dream to be able to sit around and watch movies all day. - These men really terrify me. They should immensely. And when I see them, you know, I hammered it up with Donald Trump. - Yeah. - I know. - Yuckin' it up. - Yuckin' it up. - Yeah. - Yuckin' it up with Donald Trump. I know that behind the scenes, they're saying, you know, this what a sucker. - No, I think some of them now like him. - I heard this from many people. I was sort of perplexed by Tim Cook, who was just recently stepped down as, and I know him a little, pretty well, not well. He's not my friend, but I've covered him for many years, interviewed him many times. I was like, come on, like this guy. And I heard some of the mapple call me, and he said, he likes him. I was like, really? And they're like, yeah, he does. Now, no apple people were there in this recent one, but it was really, he's kept himself away. He did change, the new CEO changed the name to Lake America, but he has kept away. You know, I think some of them like him. I do. And plus they're getting sweet, sweet money, more money. Because, you know, as I always say, they're so poor all they have is money. With this musk, databases like some, I think musk likes, I think Bases does too. With this documentary coming out about Elon Musk, I read a report. There's a couple of things coming out. There's that, and it's also the social reckoning. Yeah. I read a report that the social media companies banded together and nobody will run and add promoting the documentary. They deny it. It was a mistake in two of their behalf. Right. Yeah. So, this is fascinating to me because you know, Elon Musk is always, I'm free speech. I'm a free speech absolutist. What is he so scared about with this documentary that he would make phone calls? Well, he thinks it's a thing. Yeah, I've seen it. It's four hours, it's very long. It brings it all together. It groups it together. And as I said, there's a lot of characters in it, like Justine Musk and Ashley St. Clair and others. The women really bury him, like, and bring it together. So, you see it all together, all of it. Like, and then it makes sense. Alex Gimney, who's such a gifted filmmaker, very famous and well regarded and lauded film, a documentary filmmaker. He brings it all together. So, someone who doesn't quite know the story, you see it in full, all of the pieces. And I think that's one thing that Elon's effective at is he's over here doing Starlink, over here doing the cars, over here doing those. This brings it together. And the main message is important entrepreneur, Like a Henry Ford, important, really good at. clocking businesses, how to create businesses, really talented, very aggressive. All that is interesting and possibly good in some cases. But he's a flimflam man with the stocks. He makes promises, his mouth makes promises, he can't deliver in any way. He's become toxic. He's become hateful. He's become, and he has enormous power throughout society. It's not just any old crank screaming away. It is someone with the most money, the most power, the most influence over communications, satellites, transportation, the president himself. That's where it is. And you start, that's where you worry. And who is completely unaccountable and is possibly crazy, given all the crazy shit he says. And also, very clearly has a, enjoys using drugs, which I think has been well reported by many newspapers. I wouldn't say allegedly, he talks about it himself. And you start to worry, it's a little like Henry Ford, who had a similar influence back then at Ford, he used to put anti-Semitic tracks at Ford dealerships, that's how he distributed them. A newspaper that he had. So it's not, we've had this happen. It's just someone with so much global influence. It's a very different game we have here. Do you think Elon Musk's obituary will be? I mean, 100 years after he's done an eighth grader or ninth grader sitting in their US history class, the richest man in the world that took from the poorest people in the world. When you break down Doge and the USAid cuts and those numbers come to fruition. You'll come off well. I think, it's interesting because Henry Ford, of course, enjoyed a really good reputation until he didn't, right? Until it was very clear what it was really well reported, all his incredible racist, anti-Semitic, everything else, his funding of America first, his flirtation with Naziism, not even a flirtation, he was dating Nazis, essentially. So I think it'll be a complex picture and that's why I like this documentary. He says it's unfair and a hit job, it is not actually. I think Alex has done a very good job. And I'm saying being fair, but saying what he did that is accomplishments, like there are accomplishments here. And one of the things you take away from it, and you know, this is why I get criticized for being positive about him many years ago, but I think I was correct in that. It could have gone a great way. It could have, right? It could have gone, maybe it couldn't, maybe all that wealth makes you crazy. Maybe it's Howard Hughes, except Meena and Nastier. And, but if you think of the possibilities, it could have been amazing, right? Someone that could have had a very good impact on the world. And I'm not a fan of rich people running things in general. That's why those pictures offend me. There's no, like at the White House. It was all CEOs, all of them. It was not advocates for and against AI, which I'm happy to entertain both. It wasn't teachers, it wasn't Hollywood people, it wasn't citizens, it wasn't elected officials. Whether you like them or not, Ted Cruz should have been there over some of these people, right? I know, but he was elected. Maybe not for long. Let me just say they voted for it. I agree. Here is a level of accountability that he has. Right. As much as I agree, but I'd rather have him there making decisions than Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. I'm sorry, that's a pretty low bar. It's a low bar, but Ted, and I understand, by the way, they should be part of the talks. But why are they the only people make? And why are we letting the arsonists tell us how to protect the building? What do you think? Okay, when we get to, it doesn't make any sense. Like, let's let the plain people decide what falls out of the sky. Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. Just clump to a hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily. When we get to cancels, McTaco. Yes, when we get to this guy. Yeah, I don't believe in there's a world where he's like, come to the wide new name McTaco, Ted's? Very nice. It was always cancels, McTaco, Ted. Oh, I didn't realize that it was a full name. It's cancels. Cancels, he, I don't think there's a world where he says, all right, guys, come in. I'm going to make this so easy for you. I'm going to make you so much money. I don't think he, Trump has that in him. I think he had self money. He's made a lot of AI bets, by the way. I want to cut on this, not for the US government. Like he's done with some other companies. But for him personally, don't you think that's probably 100? This is all a grift. And they get it. And you know, I use the term a lot. And I think it's catching on coin-operated president. They put a quarter in and they get a dollar out. And so, and it's always at the expense of the taxpayer, right? It's at our expense, always. And what's interesting to see these pushbacks on data centers, these pushbacks on AI, the numbers, the only people I believe in are voters, are citizens. The numbers are crazy. People hate partisan. It's bipartisan is pushback everywhere. And now, of course, interestingly, Trump, politically speaking, is being kind of idiotic. He's doubling down. You see a lot of other Republicans going, oh, like they, they, Ramoswamy is suddenly anti, because he's getting killed on it. You'll see a bunch of them. Mike Rogers. A lot of them are my judges, our friend. Yeah, recently he was saying something about being against the Iran war. It's like, they all are trying to do that. You said to me once that behind the scenes, they say a very, they do say that behind the scenes. They're always said to me once that if Kamala would have won, these guys would have had pronouns, say that. Mark Zuckerberg is a they them. They them, right? So let's, how does that affect them? Let's say that the polling is correct. Right now, there's a generic ballot. It looks like it's going to be. It shows the Democrats plus 16. It's looking like we can take the House and the Senate in a they will do everything to stop that. Soon, I mean, let's say they don't, let's say they can't, let's say they can't they, they're going to try. I give you 100%, we'll get to that second part, but let's say they, they try, they can't, and they have to face an incoming. Yes. Don't do they all of a sudden slap pronouns or are they so over the ledge more lately? They will. Well, here's, here's the question. How cooperative will Democrats be with them to get them back? They will Democrats be, have vengeance? I think they should, so they won't. That's my feeling is that there is a, let's try to do business with them. Let's get them back. Let's get them on our side, you know, we repel them with Joe Biden's comments about must, let's do something. That's what they rely on. I have heard them say that. Like, well, you know, the reason I'm acquiescing you to Trump is he'll kill us. Media companies will tell you this. Like, look, we have two years. We'll be quiet, either the best of them or be just being quiet. The worst of them are showing up at the White House, right? That's really the, but a lot of them just say nothing or in Disney's case, Disney is pushed back on that moron at the FCC, branding car. Brand, whatever's the moron is what I call them. Because they, you know, he did you hear this? He was in a big cult? A sex car. Yes, I understand that horse. Yeah, apparently he was a nice guy in the cult and the sex cult. Branding car. I don't really care. And he's a moron. He's a he's a bought and paid for more. Yeah, and he's doing great damage. And by the way, I like an active FCC comparatively, but not this. This is all in his interest or Trump's interest. It's not in the public interest. So I think my worry is the Democrats will once again, you know, say bygones. And I think certain things are no bygones. Like I think there's a lot that isn't bygones in my opinion. I agree. I think Elon Musk, Robert Garcia, head of oversight, needs to call his ass in on day, wall day long. What happened? What doge? What were you doing there? And I think all of these miles, let me subpoena you. Let me do this. The problem is, and I've heard this argument, because if we spend all our time attacking Trump and Musk and the rest of them, we can't get things done that will get us elected permanent. You know, like minimum wage, raise minimum wage or health universal health or lower prices. They, we should just put him in our rear view mirror and say, in a sense say bygones, we're going to just have to move on. That didn't work when Marik Garland did that. I agree with you. I am not of that feeling. I'm like hit him and hit him hard. Like real hard, like unfairly even. Like I agree. You know, and it's, and it's, the problem is, a lot of this stuff is important to America to stay ahead in lots of different, in the AI race and everything else. The question is, what's wrong with a few guardrails, right? And I think what the tech people are doing or arguing, is it doom or is it wonderful? Well, maybe it's both, like nuclear energy. Like nuclear energy is a bomb that goes boom. And it's also could be a really promising energy for the future. They always try to make, because they're so intellectually juvenile. Everything is one or the other. You know, it's not complex. Yes, AI will help us get to a thing. But what are the guardrails? What are the things we should demand of these things? Like we do with every, look, look at what's happened to the FDA. We're like, we have poop lettuce now. We didn't have poop lettuce. Now we have poop lettuce. Now we have measles. Now we have this, there are good reasons for having these things. And yes, the government can overreach. That is absolutely true. But in a lot, most of the time, and let me say, I just really hate this sort of demonization of government workers. Most of them are highly competent. Yes. Most of them are. And it's really, and mostly, you know, and most much of it. business can be highly competent and civically minded, much of business can't be, but ultimately you have to understand what is the goal here for these groups, for businesses to make money, is to give money to shareholders. Sometimes for government is to hold on to permanent power. I get that. But many, many people I have met in government have been wonderful people, and they really care about public service. And that is something we should celebrate in our country. I think. I agree, which brings me back to Elon Musk, who fired so many of these government workers who don't have ambitions to be the richest people in the world. They have a house that they can pay off in 30 years. They want vacation and they want health insurance. Right. Really decent people. And Elon Musk fired them from their jobs. And so if we get, if we advance towards my hypothetical dream here, that we have blue, both houses of Congress with balls. Yeah. And I know some people make a deal. You know he will. He's such a, what's the thing of cockroach, whatever, whatever the metaphor of whoever sticks around like turtles, whatever he will do a deal with that he will suddenly look how he is with mom Donnie. That's fascinating to me. His sort of obsession with mom Donnie. He likes him. He's clear. It's not really relaxing. I don't think it's just to be near someone who's popular, although he's always attracted to popular people. He seems to be attracted to dark skin men just for my observation. I mean, it's just, it's just a theme. The guy from Saudi was here and he did it to Westmore to Westmore told me once. Yeah. He's always like this guy. So good. You're like, you're fit and most is like, okay. Yeah. I know. I'm aware. Kylie, what was the guy's name? We had a miles miles Taylor that worked in Trump 1.0. And he worked at the DHS. Yeah. He said it was really weird because they would get these requests for Trump to go meet with, you know, people, different agencies in the DHS. And they would say, make sure you put the good look in minute front. And miles are like, it's just so weird. Yes, it was. Yeah. So I do think with mom Donnie, I do think mom Donnie encompasses something that Trump really admires that he was able to take on everybody and when and like, so when are he does. He's good looking. He's smart. And I think Trump is just kind of a little bit of a queen that it's like, all these people hate him so much. I'm going to be friends with him. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Yes. No. Something child. You know what? We should encourage that. I say we encourage that. I think he'll do deals all I think he will throw every bit of mega under the bus. I think he is so desperate. He was so unhugged as a child. He's so desperate for at this late point in his life near at the end. He cannot help be desperately needing that formation. He did it. He did it at the at this thing at the White House. Aren't I great? Aren't I the best president? Aren't I? It's kind of sad. It's really it's it's now comical. Yeah. But in so many ways, it's so sad and pathetic. Really? It's the president of the United States has to be told he's good. Like you're a good boy. I get strange. It's really weird. So the Peter Teele purchased the smokey-eyed sociopath or current vice president. Yes, he does. That's it. Peter Teele's failed intern is what Rachel. Rachel. In the most recent interview that you're referring where Peter Teele is talking about being evil of productivity, etc. He kind of poo poo's JD Vance a little bit in his investment in JD Vance. Has JD Vance been a disappointment to the tech? I mean, they purchased him. They queer ID. They still like him. The tech people still like him. Trump, I think, knows that he is repugnant to voters. Let's be clear. Oh yeah. And he was like be clear. He was absolutely. I know this. But he, you know, he's sort of repugnant. And I make this joke all the time. He's the cyber truck of politicians. You look at it. Mostly some people go. Most people go up. Yeah. He's repugnant to voters. He's repugnant. Repugnant. Like I don't know what he's, he's repellent. He's repellent to voters. Like you're like, hmm, hmm. That's right. What I see is a throughline here. You have Elon Musk. I don't think Trump is repellent to voters. I don't like he's repellent to support. That's correct. They're not. But I think he is. I see is a throughline here is Donald Trump. There was a quote in Trump 1.0. He told people, I don't want to stand next to Tiffany when you take pictures because she's fat. Yeah. You have Elon Musk who can't love Vivian because she's trans. You have JD vans who cannot condemn racist Nazi group. We're young Republican text chats. When his wife is Indian and his kids are mixed. Yeah. All of these men, what I see is the the band that bands them together is that they are actively trying to make the world less safe for the people that they should love. Yeah. It's complicated. You know, I interviewed Arya manual live yesterday. And I said that talk to him about his relation with with Musk. This is quite a good book. He's written. It's funny. And it's really in his voice. He had a ghost writer who did the Augusty and and Prince Harry books. Really. It's a really good book. But I said, where's your line? Because in one hand, you are quite Democrat. He really is. He really is. I said, but you pal around with Elon Musk and you pal around with the president. And you spend all this time in this book insulting various and zundry agents who are nobody. Or power people in Hollywood like Barry Dill or Jeffrey Katsman. It spends a lot of time with very creative insults of them for some of them very funny. But he can't, when it comes to people like Musk and others, he says, you know, I don't want to be in a cult. I don't want to not get along with half my country. Why them? Why do they get it out? It's always that with these people. They always come up with some excuse for their compromise. And I just want to know where the line is or is there a line? Or do they Trump gives you money? Or what are we hard wired subconsciously throughout our whole lives to capitulate to patriarchal framing? Well, men are. That's for sure. Is there that kind of default setting where, you know, Merrick Garland did it and the Biden administration did it like, oh, this is okay. And if you've got to let this stuff go. And Obama did it with the tech people, Iraq war and with the banks in 2018. I always see and I used to beef all the time. I'm like, all you do is coddle these people and they will kill you. Like you are growing a group of killers and acting like they don't deserve any regulation, you know, but that was, you know, now he's on board with that idea that I'm dangerous. But I mean, I don't know. I honestly don't know. I think it's, it's a disease and a man kind, the bygones. Like, let's forgive. Right. Let's forget. And I'm not one of those people. I'm not either. And I think women are less so, right? They're like, yeah, no. No, we need a reckoning. There needs to be accountability. You do not get to do these things to our country, kill citizens, kidnap people. We have concentration camps in America. The Supreme Court just approved this week. Yeah, you can deport people to countries they've never been to. It's not the American way you see it. And that's the problem. We have such a bifurcated American way. There is a hopeful, wonderful thing about America. And yet there's this, you know, as much as Donald doesn't like the Smithsonian had just left, Lonnie Bunch, very qualified guy who just look because he just got pilloried and pummeled by this guy. You know, he doesn't want to tell his, what is wrong with telling history the way it happened? It doesn't take away from the assets that we've done, the astonishing things. And for some reason, repeating, you don't want to dwell on it. That's for sure. But you have to be, to be a mature person and not be sort of someone who's stuck in permanent adolescence, you have to be able to say, okay, I did this. Do you think these billionaires, these texts that can't just are emotionally stunted? Very much so. I talk about that. They're like, and I think they've been coddled that way. Yeah. You know, I used to complain about venture capitals. I said, when you stop treating them, like they're toddlers. So you think part of, one of the symptoms of capitalism is we attribute attributes to people that they haven't earned. If the rich, they must be genius. That's correct. If the rich, we must defer to them. We must, like the whole Epstein thing, the reason a lot of those people never got charged or we haven't investigated it is because they're rich. Donald Trump told Marjorie Taylor always has been. That's exactly right. This is not a new phenomenon of a humanity, right? Right. I'm sure all the Mediches weren't geniuses. Let's be right. You know what I mean? Right. Thanks for the art, but come on. All right. Tell us about the Zuckerberg film. Yeah. You've seen that one. Okay. Tell us what's coming out with that. You know, it's interesting. I saw it and I interviewed Aaron and I'm interviewing for the podcast, but I did a special thing for him for a bunch of ex-Facebook people. I would say it's not as good as the first one. The first one, I love David Fincher and I like Aaron as the director here. I just happen to be a big fan of David Fincher. Even though this one is more accurate than the first in a lot of ways, this one's about Francis Hagen. It's about the woman who who who who takes those files and gives them to the Wall Street. It's about that to the Wall Street Journal reporter, which proves a lot of stuff that a lot of us were talking about. I mean, I was talking about this in 2019. I just didn't know what documents. What files were talking about. This social media was degenerative to our society that it was going to hurt us in ways that are very nefarious and privacy violating and meant these are like cigarette companies. I used to say that a lot and they just get mad at me and At one point I predicted the insurrection. I'm like, here's where it's going to go with this obsession with online and how it angers people and and and even Elon Musk has been pulled into the in it's heard him mentally like being extremely online. So it's about what's the wide, it's a it's a similar thing to the must-documentary. Why does this one person, Mark Zuckerberg, who is brilliant in a lot of ways, but problematic at best, right, has should not be in the position to decide our fate for us. He's unaccountable. He I would say he's uneducated about enough things. Why is he get to make determinations about all of us? Why does he get to push, why does he get to put his finger on the button of the kill switch? Why isn't the kill switch all of us get to decide what that moment is? And that's what it's about. It's really about Francis Hagen who who gave these documents to the general report that proved what we were all saying was happening inside of Facebook in many ways. Now some people thought that Francis in doing it got Facebook to stop actually doing safety things like we might as well not count any of this because the minute we do we're getting sued like there is there are critics of her. But at the same time, it's about why is power residing in one single person? And what can we do individually in this case Francis played by I think it's Mikey Madison who's amazing in this role. What can we do about it? What's our power? And in this movie she takes power and forces Facebook to reckon with what they've done. So that's what it's called a reckon. And I've read that these tech all of them they don't think they've done their victims. They won't let their kids use their products. Some of them. Yeah. Some of them. I think they are, you know, it's just like rich people everywhere. They get the best food, the best training, the best this and that again, that's not, that's nothing new. But it's, you know, they are very aware of the damages. They can see it. They can see it. What they like to do is two things. One is justify it. It's all for the good. When Mark put up the muse, the little soft squishy thing, that's how they think. Don't you want a charm that follows you around and tells you what to do? Oh, sorry. It made someone show up at your house like, I don't, I want a person, like sure a person would that I can hold accountable for this charm. What if it does damage to you in some way? Who's accountable for it? Is it the charm? Is it you? Did you give it access? And one of the things, I don't mind the idea of certain things being automated, emails, things like that. But I was looking at it and I really think the muse app is quite good, actually. It's the best version of this called adjantic or agentic or whatever you want to call it. The people, essentially assistance, you know, digital assistance. And I like it. And I, and like, oh, so you're going to use a Facebook product. I like threads. It's a good product. Good product. I, I cannot give him my email or my calendar or access to my finances because I don't trust him. Right. So how is it going to work? When is it going to be used? Who am I going to do that to? Who am I going to give that right to take over my future? None of them. Because there's no regulation. There's no regulation. Not that I feel is. Not that I feel is. I mean, they claim. If you would be getting back to the AI meeting, they claim they can be sued. But can they? Right. Right. In a lot of ways, they can't because of section 230. But what if what if open AI creates an Ebola, a new version of Ebola and sends it around who's responsible for that? Is it open AI? Is it Sam Altman? Is it? You said on your podcast that you thought that that accountability, if crimes are committed by these missions that we have to charge the people with 100% a part block. Yes. They have to be. You know, look, the banking people didn't go to jail. They should have. They did in other countries, but on this one, we tend to not do that for our oligarchs. We let them stay out and have new lives, essentially. But, you know, if they create some level of damage, it's a trivial to them. They should go to jail, both criminal and financial liability. I think financial liability would hurt them more. But criminal liability for negligence happening in California, Facebook settled for 17 billion. You think they settled because they just wanted it to go away. That's a lot of money. Even for them. And that's not a lot for them, but it's a lot. Yeah. It's the beginning of a waterfall of negligence cases and product liability cases that are coming. And that's why they're desperate to keep Trump in power because he will say, no, we don't need any. And that that stupid thing they sign where they spelled the United States wrong. Did you see that? Yes. Stats. Stats. Unites. Unites states. Yeah. So you said they're desperate to keep Trump in power, which brings me back to that. I think AI could fix that, right? You would think. You would hopefully AI didn't make that. Yeah. Maybe it was the bunny boiler. Yeah. No. No. You said they are desperate. They are desperate to stay in power. They are desperate for this. The midterms are coming up. My audience, we are all laser focused on the hope of him that perhaps we could have a blue tsunami. But we also are realists. What do you, aside from spending money? Yeah. What do you think these tests are? This isn't a money election. Willing. So what do you think they have more money to do? They have more money, like by far, and they have a mask in the rest of the money. What do you think they're willing to do? You know, the worst-case scenario is troops at the polls, scaring people off the polls, not saying these elections happened, like putting it into question and holding up votes and holding up machines, physically stopping them. When I wrote that in 2019, I said Donald Trump will, who is sort of bunny-boiled his people into being crazy people, will tell them then to attack the actual physical process. When I wrote it, I was attacked by the tech. How dare you say that? How dare you say that this could, and I used the word insurrection in this column in the New York Times. I said, I see an insurrection happening because this is his only choice. So I always think about what's his choice. Well, there's two. He could take his lumps and then cooperate with the Democrats. He might do that. Trust me. And we might let him, right? It's not without, it's with, he is not a true believer. So he could change it on a dime, right? Right. So you could see him doing that and accepting his faith, because he doesn't really carry such a selfish prank. He's like, what do I care about the Republicans? Right. There is an element of legacy. What does this legacy going to be actually? I think he does care about that a little bit. So what is it? Does he want to be known as the most destructive and hateful present in history? Maybe a little, but maybe not. And I'm not talking about kissing up to him by any means, because I think he's a sad pathetic old man, really, who just wasn't loved enough and is cruel. That's pretty much it. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day comfy grip. I knew groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily. But he's not my problem. It's the ones that facilitate him. He is my problem, but I get him. I get him too. I get him about this a lot. I get him. I get it. He's that person. So what do we do about the ones who facilitate it? What do we do about the cowards? What do we do about those people? And when do we let them back? Do we let them back at all? Do we jail them? Like, what happens? Where's the Nuremberg trial of this? And I believe it's not on that level. What the Nazis did is on like an unprecedented level in modern times, not all times. For sure. But what is our version of that? What is our truth and reconciliation? And how much should we stick with that? And how much should we move forward? I think it's going to be the difficult part. Because what I would like is when I was watching them all at the White House, one of the things that stuck with me is, why do these people just not stop talking? Why is Alex carpet always talking about things? Is he on cocaine? I have no idea. He won't do an interview with me. None of them will do an interview with me, just so you know at this point. Well, our Emmanuel did. Good for him. He's got a set, right? In video guy. He begged me to be on stage at my conference when he was just a game-making chip guy. But he won't talk to me. I think he's also full of shit, much of the time. But none of them who we're going to get pressed by me will be on. They'll make their excuses. She just hates us. I'm like, "Oh, I don't actually. I know you. That's the problem you have with me is I get you. I actually understand you." Right. You know, but they don't have to anymore, and so just what are we going to do with them? What are we going to do with them? Then what are we going to do about their technologies? Maybe they should sit this one, sit down. I keep thinking, I'm thinking of writing a piece saying, why don't you sit down now? Time to sit down, boys. Time for you to stop talking about everything. I don't care to hear your opinions about Ukraine. I don't care to hear your opinions about DEI. I don't care your opinions about anything. Y'all are talking too much, and y'all need to sit down and let other people speak and have their own piece. Or maybe we should all speak together, but it's enough for you people. That's what's astonishing to me is they-- you see them everywhere. If I see one more interview with Alex Carb, be in crazy, whatever's happening with you. I just am like, why are we listening to him? Okay. Final question. We have listened to him. Enough with all of them. All right. Final question. is my grandmother would say? - We saw this merger go through with parents. - Yes, yes. - And I am going through, it's not that it's going to go through. - Yeah. - And I am very over capitulators right now. I am fascinated by the fact that Musk and Tim Cook, and all of these billionaires that we've been talking about, 'cause a layman associates a billionaire with freedom. - Right, you'd be very nice. They are so in shackles to the fragile ego of this man. - Yeah, they are. - One woman. - One point of this out the other day. - One woman get the mourn prison, they are. - They're so imprisoned. And I saw you on a clip, talk about this Paramount merger. And you have a contract, but now I see an end. - I do. - And you said, "I will do whatever I can do to get out of it." Even though it's just 'til December, I went out. Fuck it, I'm not doing it. - Yeah, I'm trying to get fired. - That is liberation. - It is. - You are so much freer than these billionaires. So talk about, and I like that moral clarity in that conviction that I am not going to get in the sandbox and play with this man. - Well, you know, look, I don't, there are issues. This was a discussion I had with R.A. last night was I don't believe in consolidation as the choice. I think innovation is the way we were. Like, how can we make Hollywood more innovative? Not how can we consolidate? Is that our only choice that we have to get bigger and let smaller and smaller amounts of largely white men be in charge, which is, again, nothing new. But I look, I'm at an age. I don't know where you are. I've always been this way, but I'm definitely at an age now. Like, I don't have to do this. Why do I need to do this? I don't like you, or I don't like what you do. I don't like them personally. David Ellison's actually a very lovely person. No question. He's very polite. He's, and he makes great movies. And I appreciate all the top guns. I appreciate Mission Impossible. I love the Star Trek. Great. Go do that. But why do we have to-- but I don't like what you do in news. And that's my little tiny, nothing world. Someone called CNN to me. Someone in that group said, oh, it's just a hemorrhoid. It's just a pain in the ass. I'm like, it's my pain in the ass. And I don't want to work. I've seen what you've done at CBS. I don't like it. I don't-- what has changed? Why do I have to forgive you? And you don't like me. And I don't like you. So you don't like what I'm saying. And you own it. Go for it if you want. I just don't have to be part of it. And so-- and I have choices. And that's the problem a lot of people at a lot of these news organizations, not just CNN. They don't have. There aren't choices. Everything's getting smaller. The ship is-- they're having to throw things overboard because they haven't innovated the business plan. I can do that. I can say, you know what? I'm this age. I just don't want to look at you. Like, I know it sounds dumb. And it does look dumb. To me, it's like, they're so little of that right now that when it happens, I know people have gotten very interested. And I'm just a minor figure there. But I'm articulating what a lot of people feel. Right. They take this job and shove it. Like, exactly. And I've done it before. It's not like I haven't done it before. Everyone's like, oh, look at what she's doing. I'm like, literally, I do this all the time. And it's actually something I share with Arya Manuel. He's left the lot of jobs because he didn't like-- he called them dumbasses and imbussoles. He couldn't work for dumbasses and imbussoles. And he was like, give me a hard time about saying that. I go, literally, this whole book is about leaving dumbasses and imbussoles. And I'm doing exactly what you do. And so it was like fair point. I can't get fired. Unfortunately, I haven't been fired. You know, and I can't. And in fact, we were working on a renewal that was pretty interesting. And I just don't trust them. What can we do? What can we do to get you fired, right? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think I'm in nothing to them. Because one of the things they've been trying to do is they attack me personally and through New York Post and stuff like that. And they also-- well, what do we-- one of them said, well, you're a relevant. I'm like, if I'm so a relevant, why are you talking about me? That's what-- I'm like, I'm not a relevant. Obviously, I have power. And I think that it just sounds dumb. But I don't like-- there's certain foods I don't like. I don't eat them. I don't like leaks. I don't eat leaks. Stop bothering me. When I tell you, I don't eat your fucking leaks. I get you don't. I'm going to go somewhere else where I like the food better, the place better. And luckily, I am in a position to do that because I've made very smartly, I think, an entrepreneurial business like you're doing, where I get to make the choices. And I get to make the mistakes. And they're on me when they happen. Luckily, it's been relatively successful the whole time, which is great, because I think I'm pretty good at it. And it sounds dumb, but it's my little restaurant. And if I don't want to serve you, I'm not going to serve you. If I don't want to make something, I'm not going to make it. And I don't want to own a chain of restaurants. It's my little world. And I want to-- when I think about-- and by the way, let me be clear, the people currently running CNN have been wonderful. I have nothing but regard for them. I love-- from the anchors, like Caitlin Collins and Anderson Cooper, down to the people in the field, down to the managers, largely a wonderful experience. That's not it. It's just-- I'm not so sure about the new owners. And I don't feel-- I don't want to stick around and give them the benefit of it out. Right? I agree with you. Maybe if they change, I'll be-- Well, you know what they've done with CBS. I don't like it. I think minutes. And they haven't changed it much. And we have to-- hasn't changed. They went around and fired people. But it looks like the same spiking stories about the C-COT and all of the things that very wise did. You're mits out of it. What do you care? It's a small thing. It's fascist collaboration is what it is. And maybe, maybe not. I just don't think they're good at it. People always like to say, "Carrots are political." I'm like, it is, and I just don't think you're good at it. And I'm good. So I'm good, and I want to work with good people. And that's what I'm going to do. And what do you care if I don't like you, or if I don't want to work for you? That's to me, is the bigger thing. It's just, let me go. Let me go. I think the insecurity and the fragility that these people, again, I used to hear this phrase a few years ago. Billionaires shouldn't exist. I was like, what do I care if they make that smile in my business? This class of billionaires is putting on a master class as to why they shouldn't exist. That's right. Now, I have adopted that policy. Yes, well, because they're victims. They're always the victims. That's when they're so-- trying to not pay taxes. The big, beautiful bill, which was just a big, griffed, shifting money from working class-- Giving money to Trump, despite the-- I think you have this incredible company that is worth, you know, trillions of dollars. And you could say, I'm going to do something incredibly innovative here. I'm tripling all of my employees, salaries. You can make them a choice. Extra vacation. I'm doing XYZ. And guess what? I'm still going to be rich AF. That's correct. They don't do it because nothing too much will never be enough. I don't know why. That's-- you know, there's a great book that I had on the CNN series I did. More everything forever. They cannot-- there's not enough. And then, therefore, you know, it's a yawning mall of need that never gets-- Tennessee Millen said the bottom of bottom as well. That's what I feel like them. And for, in my case, I'm like, I don't want to forgive you. There's a discreet chick song, you know, what's it called? It's like, I'm not ready to forgive that-- Oh, yeah, I'm not ready to make nice. Nice. I'm not ready to make-- I agree. And I may not make nice. But what do you care? I don't-- you don't have to hang it with me. You don't like me. I don't care. Whatever. And it's not a by-gone, so I'm not ready to make nice. I don't feel like forgiving and forgetting. And that's my trip around the sun for whatever days I have left, right? But they really do care when you tell that to them. And I think it is powerful. And I do get stopped by a lot of people. A lot of journalists saying, thank you. Some journalists who are in the can for these people that are pro-power are like, well, they don't care about care. I'm like, well, then stop writing about me. If you don't care so much, either I'm interesting or I'm not. One or the other, just pick your lane. But a lot of people do stop me. Regular people, which is something I value from doing the podcast. And I'm sure you get this, too, is people say, thank you. Persons are speaking out. And that, to me, is my reward. I don't need them to be idolatry of me. They're like, you made me feel better. You made me think I could do something. And if it's easy for me to do that, I'm happy to do so. And I'm with you. I'm not ready to make nice. I'm not ready to give in. I'm ready to usher in the matriarchy. Yes, usher the men. Usher in the matriarchy. Not all of them would be good. I will even defer this. We'll put the lesbians at the top. That means matriarchy at the top. At the apex. Not the ones that miss that story. Well, the message is, and not Candace Owens recently outed, allegedly. This has been a crazy week for lesbians. Who did she have? Oh, there's been all over Candace Owens. But yeah, somebody's done this huge investigation that Candace Owens is a lezy, not in my experience. So, but OK. All right, Keras, wait. You know, anyone can do that. We're open for business for everybody. Even if they're awful, it's fine. Again, I don't care. Right. Do what you want. Exactly. Just stay away from me. That's how I feel about it. I won't be dating her. Oh, I know that. I know you won't. You're not ready to make nice with Candace Owens. Anything. Keras, always your thinking so much. Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting. It's even theirs. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin. That still feels like your skin. Maybe it's Mabling!