"This Is A CLOWN!" Netanyahu 'Ignored' Hamas Warning + UK Sanctions Israeli Settlers

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You're talking about the fact that settlements are illegal. That's not true. Look at this map. Just on that. Just on that. You think this is going to divide the West Bank? You've got to hand it to you. You are an extremely effective propagandist for the expansionist Israeli government. I note with interest you are not repeating then that you believe it's an absolute lie, this piece in Haaretz. Are you trying to get me to lose my job? No, I'm asking you, was it a lie or not? Throughout the war in Gaza, we've been repeatedly told that it's wrong, dangerous, and anti-Semitic to conflate Jewish people with the Israeli state. Jewish people across the world, not responsible, not to blame, for the actions of the Israeli government. I couldn't agree more. The only people who do that are the real bigoted anti-Semites and Israel's biggest supporters. That uncomfortable truth has again been laid bare this week by the astonishing backlash for the UK sanctions on Israel announced yesterday by Foreign Secretary Ed Miliband. The British government has come to the same conclusion as the former Prime Minister of Israel and others, that there is ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in areas of the West Bank, perpetrated by settler terrorists. And too often, the Israeli government has turned a blind eye to this. And worse, members of it have made statements and taken actions to support the forced displacement of Palestinians. Well, it's highly significant that the UK has now specifically condemned ethnic cleansing by settler terrorists, just as it was highly significant for Mike Huckabee, the US ambassador to Israel, to use the word terrorism this weekend himself. But for taking action against this terrorism, Miliband and the British government writ large has faced a maelstrom of retribution, including our ironically, from Huckabee himself, who'd already accused the Jewish Ed Miliband of Jew hate. You talked about the Jew hate of the UK government. Were you aware that the British Foreign Secretary is himself Jewish? Yes, I was aware of that. There are some Americans that don't like America very much. They march in the streets and burn our flags. Doesn't mean that they love America just because they live there. Were you aware when you typed that out on social media? That Ed Miliband is Jewish? Or did you find that out subsequently? No, I was aware of it. Yes. And it did not change my opinion of what is being going on. I feel like that it's a discrimination against the Israeli government. It's a discrimination against the Jewish people. And I don't understand the rationale of it. Well, that's precisely the problem. The ambassador uses Jewish and Israel interchangeably. He bills them as one and the same. Britain's own chief rabbi did the same by calling it a dark day for British Jews. The implication is that if you're against vile, racist anti-Semites, which all decent people are, then you must also be in favour of a pretty vile and racist Israeli government. Well, today, Ed Miliband has been repeatedly pressed on how this policy could endanger Jewish people living in Britain. But he is one of them. And I can't think of anything which puts them in greater danger than presenting them all as one and the same as Benjamin Netanyahu's government. Should we also now avoid sanctions on Iran because of the large Persian diaspora living happily in London? The fact is that Israeli settlements in the Palestinian West Bank are illegal under international law. The US, Britain, just about everybody else has said that for years. It's also a fact that Netanyahu has allowed these settlements to expand at an unprecedented rate amid violence and murder by extremists. Plain and simple, it's wrong, it's terrorism, and it must stop. The grim irony of this week is that most Jewish people agree. Well, in a moment, we'll debate all this with an exceptional panel. But first, I'm joined by Doron Spielman. He's the spokesman for the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. Doron Spielman, welcome back to Uncensored. Good to see you, Piers. If the US ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, a greater friend of Israel, it would be hard to imagine a man who's on my own show many times defending what I believe to be the indefensible when it's come to some of the actions by this Israeli government. When even he labels Israeli settlers on the West Bank as terrorists, does that not give you pause for thought? And do you agree with him that they're terrorists? Well, I was with the ambassador this week, and we spoke for close to an hour. He's a good friend. And it's, first of all, very important to put out that the ambassador did not say that Israeli settlers are terrorists. The ambassador was talking about the acts of what he saw in front of his eyes, which he felt were displacement. And he equated that. He wasn't referring to all. Well, I'll tell you what, just to be clear. Okay, let me stop you there. Let me stop you there. Well, that's exactly the issue, Piers. No, I'm just going to. For the benefit of viewers who didn't see what he originally said, let's just play the clip of what he actually said so there can be no dispute about what he said. You heard about the challenges that they face living in their own homes, on their own property, some of the intimidation that is being carried out by people that I have characterized as being terrorists. I know that's an uncomfortable word for some people. There are limitations in what a U.S. embassy can do in another country. We cannot investigate. We don't have that power or authority. We cannot adjudicate. But we can influence, and we can call attention. There may be a few hundred that are responsible, but that's a few hundred too many. And one of the messages that we have been sending, and we will continue to send, is that people in these communities have a right to live with a level of security and safety, and that the government has a responsibility to make sure that that happens. So, he clearly uses the word terrorist. I mean, it's indisputable. No, but he's not referring. As I was trying to say, I wasn't denying that he used the word, and I don't want to get hung up on a word, how everybody defines it. I mean, I think the U.S. embassy is the greatest proponent of Jewish life in Judea and Samaria. The ambassador has said numerous times that Jews should be building in Judea and Samaria. Charlie Kirk, who you just spoke about a few minutes ago, said Palestine is a myth, that the area is called Judea and Samaria. But in action, and here I would agree with the ambassador, not by the word, but any action that is illegal, whether it's committed by a Jew or an Arab, if it's to scare them, intimidate them, or try to hurt them, it doesn't matter who's doing it, is reprehensible. And Prime Minister Netanyahu has been incredibly, incredibly clear about this. So, on that point, yes. But what we're really looking at is something that Jews are being collectively punished for living in Judea and Samaria. I think there's probably no precedent like this anywhere in the world, where an entire community of people are supposed to be paying a punishment for the actions of a few lawbreakers. I mean, can we imagine if in London, and I know a critic of this Labour government, the same one that is coming after us, that crime has been rising in London. Would anyone say, since that London's crime is four times higher than Judea and Samaria, that every person in London is a lawbreaker, that they should be sanctioned as a group? It's absurd. I mean, you had the actions of 3,000 criminals, terrorists from Hamas, pouring over your border, committing atrocities in a disgusting terror attack, and Israel has not done that. Israel responded by targeting all of Gaza and has killed nearly 80,000 people since October the 7th. I disagree with the precedent here. In terms of a principle, what is the difference? I disagree with the principle. I'll explain to you the principle. Well, you have collectively punished the Palestinians for the actions of 3,000 terrorists. I disagree with that. It was Hamas that built their entire terror infrastructure inside of Gaza and used their civilians so that they would provide a collective shield against Israel for their terror actions. And when we try to reach Hamas, don't forget we had the largest movement of civilians out of the way of war of any nation in history. When Hamas hides behind them, they are putting those civilians in harm's way. This is completely different. These are criminal lawbreakers, that Israel has laws, we have courts, they are being arrested, crime has not disappeared, just like it hasn't disappeared in London. But to say, you know what, all Jews living in what area, by the way, West Bank, what's the traditional term used by Charlie Kirk and by Ambassador Huckabee? Judea and Samaria. I mean, Jews cannot live, according to England, just by living in our historic land, called Judea. It's a land on. Well, it's not actually just, I mean, you keep saying it's just England, but let's be clear about what's happened. Eleven other countries made a similar announcement, including France, Canada, Denmark, Spain, Finland, Ireland, Iceland, Norway, Poland, Portugal, and Sweden. They're all committed equally to a two-state solution. And let's get into the scale of expansion of settlements. This announcement comes after Israel opened up 10 for the construction of 1,200 settlement homes in the E1 area, which would effectively divide the West Bank in two. From 2012 to 2022, the population of Israeli settlers on the West Bank grew from 520,000 to over 700,000. There are now believed to be 750,000 settlers living in the West Bank. There's been an exponential increase in the spread of settlement construction since 2022, when Netanyahu returned to power at the head of what everyone perceives to be a very right-wing pro-settler coalition. Since 2022, the Israeli government has approved more than 100 new settlements across the West Bank, despite this being a direct flouting of international law. And according to an Israeli human rights group, Israeli authorities have completely emptied 66 Palestinian communities in the Occupy West Bank since October 2023. This is not just a handful of bad people. This is a systematic attempt by this Israeli government, fueled by Ben-Gavir and Smodrich, two, in my opinion, despicable people, who absolutely, through their rhetoric and actions, believe in ethnic cleansing and want to kick all the Palestinians out of Gaza, out of the West Bank. That is indisputable. And they're following up the rhetoric with actual hard actions. And what the U.K. government has done, is eventually say, if you're going to keep flouting international law, then us and 11 other countries are going to stand up and say, enough. And given that even Mike Huckabee has branded the violent Israeli settlers, committing the horrible acts of violence we see on a regular basis there, as terrorists, what is any democratic country in the world supposed to do, other than do what the U.K. government has now decided to do, which is. issue sanctions against the settlers, who are there illegally, according to international law? Well, you've said the word settlers about 15 times. Do you acknowledge that these are men, women, children, people going to work, people with jobs, plumbers, lawyers, doctors? I acknowledge they're taking land from Palestinians. The irony lies at the very. Hold on, Pierce. The irony lies at the very basis of they're settlers, like they came out of the middle of nowhere. Let me remind you, Pierce, that the Jewish people, have a greater legal, historical, and spiritual connection to this land than probably any other people on Earth. They're taking Palestinian homes. And you just spoke about Charlie Kirk, about Charlie Kirk, who said the exact same thing. And what I understand from what you're saying is. Charlie Kirk is irrelevant to this debate, honestly. 1,100 homes. Charlie Kirk's not here to talk about this, right? I want to say, 1,100 homes. These Jews with long noses and, you know, are coming into 1,100 homes. Look, they're settlers. They're no longer people. They're settlers. Listen, I think you should back up and understand, these are Israelis who want to live in their biblical ancestral homeland. Well, they're taking Palestinian homes. which we agreed to a state in 19. They are stealing Palestinian homes illegally. We moved in. We agreed to have an Israel without our biblical homeland, even though originally it was supposed to be part of it by Britain and, of course, by the Balfour Declaration. And in 1967, as you and I know, and you can try to debate this, Israel was attacked by three countries, and in defense, we. received this territory from an illegal occupier, not called Palestine, called Jordan. Jordan received it from the occupier of Britain, who received it from the occupier of the Ottomans, who go back to the Mamluks, who go back to the Jews. You know who's not on that list of occupiers ever? Palestinians. Now, Israel is a law-abiding country, and when you talk about ethnic cleansing, first of all, it's beneath you. That population has grown immensely. That population have jobs. Many of them, by the way, are going to be devastated, because they work, many of them, for Jewish businesses, which now the British government is choosing to sanction. The whole idea is absurd, and all this is taking place by a Labour government that you despise. Now, the only time I've ever heard you defend a policy. Actually, you're talking about a different government. No, hang on. You were talking about Keir Starmer. Well, to be clear, I was. So you like Andy Burnham's government? I didn't despise them. I thought Keir Starmer's government was pretty useless. That's why he went after two years. I have not categorized Andy Burnham's government that way, because I want to see what he does. So, fine, Andy Burnham's government hasn't disappeared, but, you know, the Labour government and the Greens all agree. On this point, I have a lot of sympathy with their argument. And, by the way, the argument is being put forward by a Jewish foreign secretary. Oh, come on, give me a break. If there's anyone that's shown that Jews. If there's anyone that's taken Jews and put them on the front stage against Israel, his name is Piers Morgan. That's been your strategy the entire time, Piers. You put self-hating Jews, including former prime ministers that went to jail, self-hating Jews you can find in the book, and then you say the policies of Israel are Ben-Gvir and Smotrich trying to say that we're being hijacked as a population as opposed to understand what's happening here. You are. You are. We're not. You know something? This. I am called a Jew, Piers, not because of Ben-Gvir, not because of Smotrich, not because of anybody. I'm called a Jew because my ancestors come from Judea. Right. Do you really think the Jewish foreign secretary of my country is a Jew? OK, but let me ask you, Doran, let me ask you, do you really believe, then, that the Jewish foreign secretary of my country. You get free nights every night, all year long, plus a 25% bonus toward your daytime use all summer. TXU Energy. Rep number 10004. TXU Energy is a Jew-hater. You know something? I'm not going to define him by a label. I'm going to talk to you about his words. How can he hate Jews when he's Jewish? Hold on. At a moment in time, when the Israeli people are fighting against the evil of the world, Iran, whose ballistic missiles can now reach London, Hamas, a terror organization, Hezbollah, a terror organization, after October 7th, when we are fighting for our life, Ed Miliband. and the Labor Party choose to sanction of all people, sanction, directly sanction, not the lip service, the Jews living in Judea because of the actions of a few hundred people. That is where they focus their energy. I don't know what they are, except incredibly foolish and putting at risk a relationship that is between Israel and the United Kingdom. Despite the weapons and the technology Israel received, your own head of MI5 and your heads of MI6 have acknowledged, Israeli intelligence has saved the lives of numerous. I'm sure it has. I'm sure it has. And so why put that at risk at a time and accuse Israel, who's standing against evil? I think it's foolish. And I think the British people deserve much better. Actually, I'm quite comfortable with my country standing up to terrorism, as I'm sure you would be. I mean, you've said that often enough about. Yeah, but you're not uncomfortable with my country standing up to terrorism. I know you're comfortable with your own. When we stand up for terrorists, then it's genocide, it's all these labels, ethnic cleansing. Hang on, hang on. I'm not saying. I'm not. It wasn't me that started by calling Israeli settlers terrorists. It was Mike Huckabee, your friend from America, the ambassador. OK, again, you're going back to Mike Huckabee. Yeah, I think it's quite a significant word he used. He wasn't calling all Jews living in Judea and Samaria terrorists. I didn't say he was. He was calling those actions. He was talking about. that he felt like a disagree with Mike about the words. He was talking about the attacks on Americans. but I agree with him on one thing. He was talking about the attacks on Americans and he categorised it as terrorism. Final question for you. We now know, we know from a report in Haaretz that Benjamin Netanyahu received a warning that Hamas was planning a major operation against Israel. Personally, in a phone call from the ruler of the UAE, ten days before the massacres of October 7th, Benjamin Netanyahu, as he often does, has said it's all lies and he's taking legal action. Oddly, these legal actions never, ever seem to actually appear in a courtroom. Can we have an implicit guarantee from you that this will go to court? Because then, of course, we'll get full discovery on exactly who spoke to whom and about what. I want to tell you, I serve this prime minister. I'm incredibly proud to serve this prime minister who is leading our country and the Western world, including England and America, which is working with us together against the evil of this world. And he will go down in history like a leader, like Churchill and Roosevelt, and time will tell. Regarding these allegations, I am a government spokesman. Yeah. I am not authorized. I am not authorized. I'm not authorized to comment on these, but what I will tell you is Israel is a democratically elected country. We chose this man. We will go to the elections and choose our next leader. And as opposed to every other country in the Middle East that's not democratic, your constant focus on Israel puts a shame to the terrorists in the world. We have not even discussed the fears that pay for slavery, which is a program by the Palestinian Authority to kill Jews. I note with interest, you are not repeating then that you believe it's an absolute lie, this peace in Haaretz. Again, are you trying to get me to lose my job with the Israeli people since I was appointed as a worker? No, I'm asking you to repeat. I'm asking you to repeat. I will explain to you the legal boundaries. Netanyahu's office called it an absolute lie. I'll explain to you the legal boundaries. You are the official spokesman for Netanyahu. I will explain to you the way this country works. Was it a lie or not? Wait, Pierce. You're saying the same thing. Doran, you are the spokesman for Benjamin Netanyahu. Do you want me to file laws? This isn't. Was it a lie or not? I don't live in a third world country. Was it a lie or not? I am a worker. I am a worker of the state of Israel. You are the official spokesman for the prime minister. I am the spokesman of the prime minister's office and proudly serve. Right. the Prime Minister of the State of Israel, and I am not authorised, and you don't want me to get fired. Because if I get fired, you probably won't have anyone to speak to you for commenting on this matter. Given it was the Prime Minister's office which called it an absolute lie, viewers can make their own minds up about your reluctance. It actually was not the Prime Minister's office that got involved in this. I'm trying to explain something to you, and you're harping on the exact same point. The Prime Minister's office is a government entity that is not involved in the political side. Therefore, we are not involved in this. We have served the Prime Minister in his epic views for the State of Israel, in the fight that he's waged against the Western world, but we're not involved in his personal affairs because we are a law-abiding country, we have government workers, we have democratically elected workers. You won't find that in any other countries in the Middle East because they are most likely. Understood, understood. Let me ask you one more question. If it turns out that this story is completely true and her acts have. Absolutely stood by their story, and Netanyahu was given a specific warning by Sheikh Mohammed from the UAE about this impending attack and did nothing about it, that surely would be a resignation issue for the Prime Minister, right? I want to tell you, Piers, I think that speaking with you over all of these years, there's something that is like a disconnect on your behalf, whoever the leader is. In Israel, we pay with our own blood for this war. We have lost friends, we have lost relatives, the Prime Minister lost his brother fighting for the people of Israel. He was shot in a hijacking, rescuing. What does that have to do with what I just asked you? We are all involved. I'm trying to explain this. We are all involved in the State of Israel and care about this deeply. That wasn't my question. We are leading the fight against the West. Not my question, Gordon, is it? What you are trying to do is to pull me into a personal discretion with a crystal ball that I'm not allowed to comment on instead of talking about the real issue, which is that Iran is out there right now shooting American ships. You want to deflate, it's fine. Hamas are killing their people. I get it, I get it. Hezbollah are killing people. And it's like you're trying to weasel me into a wave speaking about the Prime Minister. Actually, all I'm trying to do is get a straight. I'm simply not going to do it. I'm just trying to get a straight answer to a straight question. No, you weren't. You were trying to fish for me. You know, we both want me to keep my job so I can continue coming on your show and answering the allegations that you constantly present against Israel, not against the other side. Actually, they're not allegations for me. They're allegations from Haaretz that have now been confirmed by a number of sources, both in the UAE and Israeli. Well, that was your choice. and Israeli mainstream media. It's your choice which news you choose to appear on your show, which newspapers, and who you choose to represent your views. OK. Doran Spielman, thank you very much indeed for coming back on Uncensored. I do appreciate that. Thank you very much, Pierce. Well, joining me on the panel is Alan Baker, who's international law expert for the Jerusalem Centre for Security and Foreign Affairs and the former Israeli ambassador to Canada. The US-Israeli journalist Emily Schrader, Owen Jones, author and host of the Owen Jones podcast, and the US-Israeli journalist Emily Schrader, and the US-Israeli journalist Emily Schrader, and the Palestinian-American journalist Omar Badr. OK, well, let me start with you, Owen Jones. I mean, it was a bit like getting blood out of a stone there from the official spokesman for the Israeli prime minister. We'll come to the Netanyahu-Haaretz story a little later. But, first of all, this issue of the UK government taking sanctions against specifically the Israeli settlers, you know, I thought it was a highly significant moment when Mike Huckabee, of all people, used the word terrorists about the violent Israeli settlers. And there's a qualitative difference between the ones who commit acts of violence and the ones who don't. But all the expansion of settlements in the West Bank is legal by international law. So, whether they're peaceful or not, or committing acts of violence or not, they're all, according to international law, breaking the law. And eventually, something has to give. And, Anna Baker, I see you shaking your head. We'll come to you for your view in a moment. But, Owen Jones, you know, I'm struggling to get too angry about what my government has done here because, eventually, something has to give. If a democratic country continues to flout international law as brazenly as this, expand settlements at the aggressive rate the Israeli government's been doing, particularly since October 7th, what else are other countries supposed to do? To sit back and watch it? You know, I was in the West Bank exactly a year ago and I saw the reality of a Palestinian population living under the. terror of both the settlers and the Israeli army. This is the longest belligerent occupation in modern times. And I met a man and his family who are literally. They built all over his actual land. He's encased by settlements, literally. He's got this massive fence surrounding him. He's under constant surveillance by cameras and Israeli settlers. The electric gate for him to go into the village is controlled by the Israeli army. Israeli settlers have attacked him and his children and, you know, he lives under. I mean, they're trying to evict him. They're trying to drive him from his home. That's just one example. Another Palestinian man, a young man. I met him in London, actually, but when I was in the West Bank, he took me to this bar in Ramallah. I was staying in Jerusalem. I picked him up in a taxi just on the outskirts of Jerusalem, where he lives, a bit like Croydon in London, if you like. He has never been to Jerusalem, except once when he was a little child. Never. I was walking around Jerusalem freely and this Palestinian man living on the outskirts of Jerusalem, in his late 20s, has never been to Jerusalem, except as a child who doesn't remember it. Now, what's happened with the British government is the barest of bare minimums. Over three quarters of a million illegal settlers are colonising Palestinian land. They are waging a campaign of terror, which since 7th of October has killed 1,100 Palestinians in the West Bank, including hundreds and hundreds of children. Palestinians are being driven violently from their homes. Entire refugee camps have been demolished. Land is being arbitrarily confiscated. It is like living with a vice, which every day gets more and more tighter. And the end game of it is for the West Bank to be rid of Palestinians. There was a brilliant Israeli journalist in Haaretz, the Occupy Territories correspondent of the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, who said that is the end game. No Palestinians between the river and the sea. And the idea is to make life as intolerable as possible so Palestinians are driven from their homes. So yes, look, many people should rightly say, what the hell was Britain doing having any trade with these illegal settlements in the first place? Now, I recognise this is, it's limited progress, but it's some progress. It's only happened because people campaigned and protested and voted, I would argue, for the likes of the Green Party, which then meant Keir Starmer got kicked out of office and Andy Burnham came to power and has been forced to listen to concerns which Labour was otherwise completely and utterly ignoring. It is a start, but it also is a start for us. Obviously, Britain has not accepted that genocide has been committed as per the consensus of genocide experts, the UN Independent Commission, which then, but nonetheless, but I'm saying it is a start. And all I'd say is the overwhelming majority of the British public support it as per the polling. And I'd say this to the supporters of Israel. You've lost. You've lost Western public opinion. Western governments are now finally being forced to act. You know you're going to lose. And that's why you're spitting so much bitter phlegm and anger and all the rest of it, because you know you are going. OK, Alan Baker, you've been shaking your head quite vigorously there. So what's your response to that? Well, look, you know, unlike the previous gentleman, despite the fact that we both have a northern accent, I don't come from a political, a very clear political viewpoint. And similarly, with respect to the first speaker, Mr Spearman, who represents the prime minister of Israel, I'm an international lawyer. I don't have a political position. And I can only answer questions regarding international law. And a few of the statements that have been made here about international law by non-lawyers, including yourself, Piers, are simply wrong, wrong in law. OK, well, explain to me why we're wrong. Well, first of all, you're talking about the fact that settlements are illegal. But that's not true. According to international law, a country which is, administering territory, which is not its own sovereign territory, has the prerogative to establish settlements as long as they're not on the private land of local people. And as long as it's temporary, pending the outcome of the dispute. False. Firstly, by the way, you've been, I'm afraid, you've not honestly portrayed who you are. You're a former adviser to the Israeli prime minister, to the Israeli government. No, no. Just so people. No, no, no, no, just so people are aware. Just so people are aware. Just so people are aware of your politics. I'm sorry, sir. I'm sorry, sir. Look, if you want to interrupt, I didn't interrupt you despite the fact that you talked a load of rubbish. Have you acted as a legal adviser to the Israeli government? I'm sorry. I grew up in a culture where one allows, in a debate, other people to talk and not interrupt. But you mischaracterised yourself. Kindly restrain yourself. And wait until I finish talking. I have been a legal adviser of Israel's foreign ministry for about 30 years, after which I was Israel's ambassador to Canada. I haven't been the adviser to any prime minister. If a particular prime minister happened to serve as foreign minister, then I was his legal adviser, including Netanyahu and including all previous foreign ministers. So kindly. But, Alan, Alan Baker, just to be clear. Alan Baker, let me ask you this. Just to. No. Alan Baker, from the. No, kindly stop interrupting and relax. OK, Alan, let me ask you a question. from a legal perspective, which is your position then is that if the settlers have not taken land that is currently being owned and occupied and lived in by Palestinians, then it doesn't constitute a breach of law. Is that your position? Well, it doesn't constitute a breach of law if it's owned by them. Sorry, the opposite. If they own the land, then Israelis aren't allowed to establish settlements. Right, so any settlements that take Palestinian homes are illegal. You accept that? Well, unless the Palestinian land or homes are purchased for the establishment of settlements, which is the case in many cases. Can I correct? Any settlement that's established in violation of Israeli law and international law are indeed illegal and have to be dismantled. OK. OK, good. Well, we're getting somewhere, because we accept that, because obviously we know for a fact that many of these expansions of these settlements have been exactly in that category. You've just detailed, which would be illegal. Omar Balon. What Alan has said is false. Let me bring Omar in. Will you stop interrupting, old boy? I just need to correct you, because you just said a load of disinformation. Will you stop interrupting? Well, let me bring Omar in. Omar is the only one who has any Palestinian in him on the panel. So why don't we bring Omar in to talk about the reality here? Sure. Omar, what is your reaction to what Alan Baker said? We should be absolutely clear about the fact that international. This is a settled question under international law. You have the UN Security Council repeatedly voting that every bit of settlements that exist on the West Bank and previously in Gaza are illegal under international law. These are resolutions that even the United States. You know, for somebody who just complained about being interrupted actually jumping down my throat when I'm trying to speak, maybe try to restrain yourself for a change and live by the parameters you're trying to set for other people, try to abide by them yourself for a moment. So you have the UN Security Council voting repeatedly that the entire settlement enterprise is illegal under international law, and then you have every major human rights organization in the world saying that settlements are illegal under international law. By the way, not just Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, but even Israeli human rights organizations like B'Tselem, and you have the International Court of Justice repeatedly saying that the entire. the entire settlement enterprise is also completely and categorically illegal under international law. For somebody like Alan to then show up and say that he's an international law expert, but his view is at odds with the entire international community, and that he alone knows that land theft is not really illegal if Israelis do it, this is not an international law expert. This is a clown. This is a cheap propagandist who is unworthy of describing himself by that or even being taken seriously in those terms. Now, I just want to get. I want to get to a particular moment that is really important over here. We have also settlements, by the way, under international law. If you look at reports by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, they're war crimes under international law. And so you have. What you have right now is belatedly the U.K. government deciding after literally decades of these war crimes being committed at the expense of Palestinians that we're finally not going to participate in those war crimes that enabled them. And that's somehow controversial. It is beyond pathetic that we're treating this as a controversy when, by the way, and the terrorism that is implemented by Israeli settlers against Palestinians, this is not. This is not a new thing. In 1994, at the beginning of the so-called peace process, a settler named Baruch Goldstein went into a Palestinian mosque and murdered 29 Palestinian worshippers there. And he is celebrated by Israeli settlers as some sort of hero. You have a Palestinian baby, Ali Dawabshah, who was burnt to death. It's called Free Nights in Cool Summer. Discover how much more you could save with Free Nights in Cool Summer. TXU Energy. Rep number 10004. By Israeli settlers in 2015. Israelis settlers at weddings were picking up the picture of Ali Dawabshah and stabbing it with a knife in celebration of that murder. You are dealing with people who are effectively ISIS, and the fact that right now we're treating it as a controversy, whether we're going to continue treating them and coddling them like they're part of normal society, when in fact you're dealing with unspeakable terrorists who, by their very existence as settlers on stolen Palestinian land, are participating in a war crime, this is extremely minimal and way overdue for us to be boycotted. Let me bring Emily Schrader in. No, no, Alan, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm running the panel. I will bring Emily in. She's been waiting very patiently. Emily, welcome back to Uncensored. You know, for me, if even Mike Huckabee is using the words terrorism, acts of terror, about the actions of some of these settlers, that is a wake-up-and-smell-the-coffee moment for everybody in this debate, because you couldn't think of a more Israel-friendly guy than Mike Huckabee, right? So if we take his word to be what it is, which was based on what he was told by Americans living there, that there are acts of terrorism being committed against. the people on the West Bank by Israeli settlers, then why wouldn't any other democratic country, along with the 11 that we have here, who've got together on this, stand up and say, enough? I mean, that's what a democratic country should do, isn't it? Well, I think there are a few specifics here that need to be laid out. First of all, as Doron, I think, tried to explain, there's over half a million people who would be classified as settlers, including people who are in parts of Jerusalem that would be classified as settlers, and it's important to make a distinction. There is an extremist faction. There are, I believe, the last estimate from the security forces were several hundred people who are involved in groups that are violent, that are dangerous, and I, too, would classify them as terrorism. But it's a huge gap between that and saying that all settlers are terrorists. Yeah, I don't think all settlers are terrorists. I don't think all settlers are terrorists at all. But if it was 200 people from ISIS committing acts of terrorism, then there would be no limit to what people wanted to do by way of response. These are quite mild sanctions involving relatively small amounts of money, but the bigger picture is the British government standing up and making a political point to the world. We're not going to keep tolerating this if the Israeli government keeps turning a blind eye. Yeah, well, I think that the Israeli government does need to take action, but when it comes to these sanctions, and in general, the policy that we saw Miliband promoting from day one, this is not about what's. This is not about what's best for Israelis or Palestinians. This is about what's best for them electorally. Even Owen Jones just admitted it, that this is about the Greens. And this is about appealing and, frankly, appeasing to a hardline extremist faction of people within the UK that they think that they can salvage. And if you look at the double standards being implemented, for example, we don't see the UK implementing anything of the sort towards, for example, occupied Cyprus by Turkey. We don't see the same standards applied to other people, and I think that's very, very dangerous. Furthermore, this can actually backfire, not just on the UK. The partnership that we see between the UK and Israel, but also in regards to the practical reality on the ground. What they're doing in implementing these sanctions is actually strengthening the right wing, which the Labour Party is against, and we're right ahead of elections. So already that's a problem. And then when it comes to the Palestinians and the issue in the West Bank and Judea and Samaria, we see that this is a unilateral decision that effectively is rewarding the Palestinian leadership for refusing to negotiate. This isn't about a two-state solution. This isn't. This isn't about a future Palestinian state. This is about a domestic political issue in the UK. And even the E1 settlements are talking about 1,200 homes in a 12-square-kilometre area, OK? This is a tiny area. This is not something that is going to divide the West Bank. This is not something that's going to take over the West Bank. And it's important that we're specific when we talk about these things. Does that mean that it's OK or not OK? That's a different discussion. But the exaggerated rhetoric. Look at this map. You think that this. Just on that. It just. It is illogical. Let me just. I'll just quote. I don't often quote these. It's very convenient that the fact that the Jordan Valley is not on that map, which Israel basically has kicked all Palestinians out of and does not allow them to basically enter that area. What does that have to do with dividing the West Bank in half? 12-square-kilometres is not going to divide the West Bank in half. Emily. It's not going to divide the West Bank in half. You know, Emily, you've got to hand it to you. And if you want to talk about the two-state solution. But we should be clear. It has nothing to do with it. The West Bank has already been divided. Palestinians going from one town to another within the West Bank cannot do it without going through Israeli border controls and Israeli checkpoints. Israel has effectively already divided the entire West Bank. It is acknowledged universally the fact that the extent of settlement expansion throughout the Palestinian territories has made the emergence of a contiguous Palestinian state impossible. That is why the peace process failed, by the way, throughout the 1990s. No, it's not. It's because the Palestinian leadership refused to accept any. You have the exact opposite. What you have. Emily, Emily, allow me to finish my sentence, please. What you have here is that we've had a policy throughout the entire 1990s of the entire world effectively coddling the Israeli right, not imposing any sanctions, effectively just begging them. This is exactly what they're doing with the Palestinians. to be nice and accept peace and anti-occupation. They, per se, still exist. And what happened, the exact opposite. Nothing has changed. There is zero accountability for the Palestinian leadership. Piers, Piers, could you. Zero. Do you mind allowing. Do you mind telling her to let me. Let me finish my sentence, please. Let him finish his sentence. What we have is an entire discourse, an entire international community that has coddled the Israeli right for way too long. They've never imposed any consequences on Israeli settlement expansion. And the result of that was relentless Israeli settlement expansion, Palestinians being thrown out of their homes, including in East Jerusalem, so Israeli settlers can come and take them over. So the method of coddling Israel and the right has clearly not led to anything positive. So for the first time, we're beginning to say that there should be negative consequences for bad behavior. If Russia had taken over part of the United States illegally and started driving out Americans out of part of the United States and bringing Russian settlers to come and live in those areas, we would not have a dispute about whether we should be boycotting that enterprise or encouraging it and coddling it. That is precisely what we need. All right, let me bring in Owen Jones. He's been unusually patient. I have to give him credit for that. Owen. Just a few basic corrections. I mean, firstly to Alan, the legal advisor to the Israeli government. Article 14 of the U.S. Constitution, Article 14 of the U.S. Constitution, Article 14 of of the Fourth Geneva Convention does not say anything at all about whether the settlements are on public land or private land. It's just not true. And what I would note furthermore is the International Court of Justice, which is the highest court on earth, it's the highest UN court, the UN Security Council have all agreed that the occupation and colonisation of the West Bank by the Israeli state is illegal, and that includes Israel's own allies. The second point in response to Emily, I'll just quote the Israeli, finance minister, Bezalel Smocic, I'll just quote what the Israeli government has said. Bezalel Smocic is the de facto governor of the West Bank, and given the extremism of Bezalel Smocic, that should tell everyone more than enough. He said the so-called E1 projects, the building, this settlement, this further illegal settlement, he said the purpose of it was to bury the idea of a Palestinian state. He said it would thwart the idea of a Palestinian state because there was nothing to recognise and no-one to recognise. What is so absurd, and I find this so absurd all the way through this, this horror show, not this show, although, you know, it has its moments. I mean, the horror show that Israel has inflicted on the Palestinian people is we're forced to live by these cheerleaders, by these mad cheerleaders, by the way, in a parallel universe where we just disregard the Israeli state literally coming out and saying what they're doing, literally boasting about their crimes to the whole world. And what they do is they act as though these statements aren't being said or aren't being meant when the Israeli state says they're building the E2. They're building the E1 project to block East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank because they want to bury the idea of a Palestinian state. Do you know what? Believe them. But, Owen, the point that Emily. I will come to you, Alan, in a moment. Emily, it's an interesting point there. Notwithstanding the legal debate and so on, from the politics of this, next month there is a massive election in Israel. This could determine the political future of Benjamin Netanyahu, whether he stays in power or is kicked out. And I think Emily has a point. You know, I could easily see this action by the UK government in conjunction with 11 other countries. It could backfire politically. It could. Well, I'm just putting a. I'm putting a supposition. I won't say it's my view, but I can see a potential danger here where, rather than damage Netanyahu and his government, it actually fuels support for them because it makes Israelis feel. The whole world's got it in for them and they're targeting, you know, 750,000 settlers. Crazy how Ben Perich came to power without. before these sanctions were put in place. Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying. I'm just saying, though, Owen. I'll respond. I'll respond. Are you concerned about the political fragility of this, potentially? No. What has happened within Israeli society is the so-called moderates, many of whom, by the way, have backed the illegal occupation settlements, but let's just part that to one side. They spent decades saying, if we do this, then the US and the West will turn on us and we will suffer the consequences. And it never happened. And it happened over and over again, that. The likes of Haaretz, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, said, we will become pariahs, we will suffer the consequences, and it never happened. And they became the boys who cried wolf. And the Israeli right, quite rationally, said, we've got away with everything. We've wiped Gaza from the face of the earth, we've stolen this land in Palestine, in the West Bank, we've colonised the land, we've murdered however many children, and we have not suffered any. The whole point, if you compare, for example, what the Serbs did in the 1990s, the Serbs, Serb nationalism and Israel, quite similar, actually, in lots of ways. It's a fusion of victimhood, often based on real things that happened, and a sense of chauvinism. But the Serbs, when they said this is anti-Serb racism, which they did, when Russia says this is Russophobia, which they do if you oppose the evasion of Ukraine, no-one takes it seriously. These people in Israel, the Israeli elite, have impunity. So what's happened over years and years, is they said we can keep pushing, we can keep pushing, we can do what the hell we like, because the West will keep arming us. They'll keep supporting us and they'll keep aiding us. And until that dynamic changes, like white South Africans, who were forced to get rid of apartheid, not because they wanted to, I'm afraid to say they did not, because they concluded we can't go on like this because we are pariahs and the costs are too great. That's the only way this whole show ends. OK, let me bring Alan Baker back in. Alan, your response to that? Well, you know, I don't know where to start. Because a lot of what Mr. Owen and similar terrorist apologists are saying is completely wrong. First of all, take Security Council resolutions and advisory opinions of the International Court aren't binding. They don't bind anyone. They're recommendations. So they don't represent international law. Secondly, in apologising for the Palestinian policies, he seems to forget one or two things. First of all, the Palestinian official administration in what you call the West Bank, which is Judea and Samaria, which, by the way, is a term that was coined by the UN General Assembly resolution 180 in 1947, calling them Samaria and Judea, those areas that the Palestinian administration has established official policy of pay for slaves. In other words, they give financial rewards for anybody who kills Jews or prisoners who are serving prison for killing Jews. Where does the minister of the United Kingdom make any reference to that? No, it's not. I'm happy to walk you through it too. OK, Omar. So let me address this pay to slay nonsense claim. What you have is a policy by the Palestinian. The Palestinian authorities in the West Bank, in which they basically, anybody who's killed by Israel or imprisoned by Israel, essentially their family receives compensation. But how do you know that? Convicted murderers. People with blood on their hands. Now that happens to include. Can you, for heaven's sake, could you please put a cork in it for a second? Let me finish my thought coherently. And then if you don't like anything about it, you can then respond. I listen to your crowd. I let you say it all out. And then I'm responding. Actually, you were interrupting the whole time. Let me finish my thought and then you can jump in and respond to it. So that's the policy. And the policy, by the way, includes Palestinians who commit acts of violence. There's no question about that. But the idea and then there is a question. Are the people who are convicted in Israeli courts, military courts, by the way, in the case of the West Bank, are they actually guilty of the crimes they're being accused of or not? It is frankly very difficult to tell because the Israeli military court system in the occupied territories has a 99% conviction rate. It is understood that people are forced to sign things in Hebrew in a language they don't understand. So there is no real. Meaningful justice system. What Israel has imposed on Palestinians is extremely unjust system. And so the Palestinian authorities and so the Palestinian authority does not discriminate basically on the reason why somebody is in prison by Israel or why somebody was killed by Israel. Their family receives compensation nonetheless. And dishonest people like Emily and like Alan turn around and say there's a pay for a slave policy. It is utterly ridiculous. Show me a single policy or example of somebody who's specifically paid for murdering someone. That simply does not exist. OK, they often. Exaggerated by saying the more people you kill, the more money you get. It is entirely manufactured fiction. Anti-Palestinian racism invented in order to portray Palestinians as. OK, let me bring. We all believe you. All right, before we complete things, I want to just bring Emily in to talk about this story in Haaretz about Benjamin Netanyahu, which seems to me very significant, right? Because the report, which has now been independently verified by mainstream media in Israel and in the UAE by other journalists. So despite Netanyahu's threats to sue and so on, it seems to be a credible report. And it's very damning. It says that 10 days before October the 7th, Sheikh Mohammed from the UAE had a conversation with Benjamin Netanyahu in which he detailed information that Hamas were planning a major attack on Israel and that Netanyahu did nothing about this information. And it would certainly seem that was the case because, of course, when the attack happened there were no defences to it for a very long period of time. If this is true, as it seems to be, but I will caveat it as if for the purposes of this debate, if it is true, Emily, that Netanyahu was specifically given that information and didn't act on that information, surely that makes him unfit to be the leader of Israel. Surely he would have to stand down. And surely when it comes to an election, he should deserve to be thrown out of office. Well, I can't comment. comment on this specific incident because I don't know all the details. Based on what's been reported it so far. I understand the Prime Minister's office has denied it. They're also claiming they're going to sue about it. It remains to be seen and I hope that does happen so that we see in discovery what is actually behind it. I will say, not that I'm in favour or against him, but I will say that there are intelligence briefings and alerts that come in almost every single day. Even the month before in August, there had been a wave of terrorism. Not from leaders of Gulf states. This is the leader of the UAE. One of the most powerful men in the Middle East personally calls Netanyahu to pass on this information. This is not just a piece of a tipster ringing a hotline. Sure, but the Prime Minister's office is denying that this happened at all in the first place. I think there's a lot of questions that we just don't have the answers to yet. I think there is reason to be sceptical about it and I hope that we come to a full conclusion about what actually went on here. But even if there was a phone call, there are alerts, as I mentioned, that happen all of the time within the security system. So this alone, without the context and the details, it's very difficult to determine. But I do want to just go back really quickly and confirm that even Omar admitted that Palestinian terrorists with blood on their hands are in fact being paid by the Palestinian Authority. In addition to that, we have documentation from multiple NGOs, from multiple organizations, and from the textbooks themselves that the Palestinian Authority continues to teach incitement to violence and pro-terror rhetoric in their textbooks. And despite that, the UK government has set aside at least 116 million pounds to go into the Palestinian Authority in the form of support without any caveats, without any enforcement, at least, of what's supposed to be caveats in regards to stopping this incitement to violence. It is not happening. There is zero accountability. And if we want to hold both sides accountable and push for negotiations, that's something I think that democratic states and the international community could do. That would be a viable position to hold. But what we're seeing from this government and from what the Foreign Secretary Miliband has done is extremely dangerous. It's playing with an important relationship that saves lives in the UK. It's an important trade relationship worth about $6 billion a year. And this isn't something that should go quietly. It's not even about anti-Semitism. It's about being strategic and what can actually advance peace. And this doesn't do that. It does the opposite. OK. We're going to have to leave it there. I appreciate you all joining the debate. Thank you all very much. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing: hit subscribe on YouTube and follow us on Twitter. And follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent uncensored media has never been more critical. And we couldn't do it without you. TXU Energy. Rep number 1-0-0-0-4.