This $0 Strategy Made Us $100M in 11 Months (1 Video = $150k) | AI Money Experts

Today's guests build a hundred million dollar AI company in less than a year. We locked eyes and we were like, "Let's break up with our girlfriends and let's move to San Francisco. Let's turn it into a 50 million hundred million dollar company and it feels great." To college dropouts who met in California, they built a YouTube channel to a million subscribers, teaching students how to change their lives through coding. We were making our own content that would get million views, no sales. We would be pushing out to emails towards a hundred thousand people list. No sales from there. We were getting influencers, no sales from there. And it's like, what do you think at that point? But after major family issues and financial crises, they realized that instead of teaching the world to create software, they could create more impact by doing it themselves. We had turned fat, not a shape, and we were just teaching other people like, "Here's how you code, and here's how you do it, right?" But then we were like, "What if we got shredded and start getting in the f---ing ring again?" In this episode, we'll get their step-by-step blueprint to build tools that make you rich. Reveal their strategy for using AI to go viral, and question my 2026 will create more millionaires than any other year in human history. Like, we've gone through some hard t---ing together. Like, we've creived together. If you have an cry with your co-founder, I don't think you should do business with them, genuinely. Kazi and Nas, welcome to the Jack No Podcast. Excited to be here, man. Thank you. Both of you guys dropped out of college. I broke up with your girlfriends and moved to San Francisco to make one of the most unique useful apps for contact creators. How do you speedrun a $100 million AI company in 11 months? One of the biggest things that we learned was focus on not product market fit, which is what everybody talks about, but instead focus on product founder fit. Find the product that you as a founder want to use in your own life that helps you selfishly, regardless of it helping somebody else. Because the one of the biggest things most people do is they make these copycat me two products. They look at what's the most viral thing and then they try to make like clones of it, like versions of it. You see this in the e-commerce world all the time. We're like, oh, this spinner is selling. It's the trend. Let's sell this until it gets banned by Facebook or something and then they don't have anything. The second step would probably be get an MVP out as fast as possible. So a lot of people, they might wait too long. For us, we had an MVP pretty much two weeks. Something that was actually working that told us, oh, we love this product. How would you do it if you had zero coding experience? I mean, nowadays, like, you can use cursor, you can use like these code, you can use level bowl. A lot of people are actually with an amazing application with level bowl. That's possible. I do recommend sometimes that you have some coding experience, especially when it comes down the road, building MVP, you can do that. You can do that with the current AI applications like bowl, like level, like cursor. That would be the second step I would say is get it out in two weeks and then after you give it out, start talking to people. Ask questions. Hey, what do you think about this? Can you use this, for example? We did that with a lot of people with our friends, with our family, and we started getting to influencers now. We started to get like, hey, can you try this? Can you try this, for example? That helped a lot. So getting feedback. And how do you know it's working? The ultimate feedback was us because before we even, because when we went to people initially, they didn't even want to like some of those people didn't even understand the product or didn't even care about the product. But the reason why we had like psychotic levels of conviction that this is good, I remember I used to tell you we were like looking at it and we were not sure. And I'm like, these people are just stupid. Like they don't get it. This is an amazing product. And it was because Nas and I would just use it every single day. Because you guys were creators. We were creating it and we were using it to solve our own problems. Right. And what was the problem you guys were trying to solve? The problem that we were trying to solve was like, so we love visual stuff. So like, for example, whenever we're brainstorming, we brainstorm on a whiteboard, on a physical whiteboard usually. But then eventually when we had this remote team, where we're like, how do we do the same thing? Well, they're bunch of software like Miro or whimsical. And what they allow you to do, they're just digital whiteboards. So most people learn visually and we learn visually and we love digital whiteboards. But then the thing was like, we use all these tools for digital whiteboards. But then we always needed to have like chat gpt open in another tap. So we would come up with some of the ideas in the digital whiteboard. Then we would open up a new tab to talk to chat gpt. And then we would open up a new tab to like have a Google doc somewhere where we could actually write the script out or something. It was a tedious process. You have to switch between these three things and it didn't just flow naturally. And we just thought like, what if we build a digital whiteboard that has AI right there and it's made for content creators? So the problem that we solved is in one visual space, you can just take a YouTube video, a length in whatever, just post it in one place, connect it to the AI and it understands the video instantly. And then we just, you connect it visually and then you can just say, make me a viral script based on this or based on this other thing at this point, what we did marketing techniques to try. So me and him, we did content. So we start to make our own content. I have 150,000 subscribers. He has 150,000 subscribers on Instagram as well. And then we also had a YouTube channel and then my subscribers. And we tried making content there to try and sell the product down. We were getting and it was nothing. Yeah, it was genuinely nothing. So that's that's the part that like confuses a lot of people's depressing. Yes, it was like we thought we were done and we were going broke by the way. We were two months away from bankruptcy. Then we tried webinars, those somewhat worked as well. But then there's one specific thing that tried for us and there's something that I think a lot of people should try. And I tell this to anybody who is like a builder, a bootstrap builder, is to partner up with somebody who has the brand in the niche that you're in. And so we kind of did that in a very lucky way. So you can go into if you want. Yeah, I was just going to say like step three, right? If we're going down the step step one is product founder, Fit like build something for yourself. Step two would be get an MVP out there that you yourself can use most importantly, then people can use it. Sure. The third one, the step that we're going over right now is make the first sale, like actually sell and make the money. And what ended up happening is we tried a ton of different outreach strategies and the Nas ended up hitting up a bunch of different Instagrammers. And then he found this one girl that had a TikTok. And then she also loved Poppy. She enjoyed the product. She ended up making a video. And that one video just absolutely blew up and made us like $150,000 in one or two weeks. How many views did that video get? That video got 1.5 million views. And every 100,000 views it was getting, it was making us $10,000 like clockwork. It was insane. And at that time, we were like super broke and you know, we were like in the San Francisco apartment. And we were just like depressed because nothing was working. We constantly kept trying and nothing was working. Nothing was working. And then one night we're like in our underwear, we're fist bump each other about to go to sleep on the floor mattresses that we had in San Francisco, like super tech bro. And we're about to leave. And then we just look at each other and like I get a ping and then he sees the same ping because the same stripe accounts like $97 and $97 and another 90s. We're like, what is happening? I'm like, did you do something? I'm like, no, I didn't do anything with the one. And then just dang after dang. And then we see and we had made like $6,000 and we just couldn't even sleep. Like we were like on crack, you know, it was just so much dopamine hit. And then by that day, we ended up doing like 15 or $20,000 in the first day. And then over the one or two week period, we did 150 grand. And what's funny is like this happened after we tried our ass off trying to sell it to our own audiences that we'd built over the last eight or nine years. And none of them would buy. So you know, for people if you're listening, you're like, what would have a million followers? It's like my million followers didn't buy as a matter of fact, that was the worst negative signal ever. If anything, that told us that this product sucks and we should guarantee it's stop. If anything, the million followers is probably a bad thing to have. Yes. Yes. It's a disadvantage to have. Right. And so we we had all the reason to stop because we're like, okay, we have statistically significant evidence that this product sucks. I sent out an email to 300,000 people on the fucking email list. And we made zero sales. And so you had like, okay, email, this didn't work on email newsletter, this didn't work on YouTube, this didn't work on Instagram. No matter how much we danced on Instagram, like it didn't get the views. But we because we used it, we're like, these are probably the wrong people. We just had that conviction. And then when you made that breakthrough on the TikTok with the girl that the video ended up going like crazy, that was incredible because it found a whole new target audience. It found this entire new demographic of people that are interested in content. That's where it went. So, so if you had to distill that down to one lesson, like what do creators get wrong when launching products? I think that what creators get wrong with launching products is one they don't build something that they actually use themselves as one thing. But let's assume that they build something that they actually enjoy using. Then the second thing is just keep trying the different strategies. So let's just say in our case affiliate strategy worked. It's like if it works for you, there is somebody like you out there and there's a group of people out there like you that will guarantee you'd have a need for this. Just do not give up and keep going. And if you talk to enough TikTokers or Instagrammers or YouTubers that will make it easier for you to do it. make a video on this and you can pay them affiliate commissions. So if your big worry is, well, how am I going to pay them? You just pay them from the money that actually make you. So it's commissions. So that-- - My takeaway from this at least is I have a lot of friends that have successful AI businesses, e-commerce businesses, and they're like, Jack, why don't you just launch something for your podcast? I'm like, well, if I launched a supplement product, I'm not going to be the best person to promote it. - Yeah. - Like, it would be an entire different marketing funnel. It's not congruent. - Yes. - So I would have to find the people who are best at promoting this thing. - Yes. - And it's super fascinating to me that you guys both had audiences that were huge, but they didn't want your thing. - No. - And you found some girl with how many followers did she have? - She had like 30,000 followers. - 30,000 followers. - 30,000 followers. - And she made you 150k. - Yeah. - So it's, how many creators did you test before that point? - I would say like two or three actually. We weren't testing too much. With this girl specifically, we got kind of lucky. But also I think what we found is we found that person who finally got it, who understood it. Like what he's talking about is like find those people and Brian Chesky talks about this a lot too, from Airbnb. He's like find the 10 people who understand your product, study them, be around them. And that's how you build the product to, you know, how you build the product forward. - Don't forget your thought, but I just want to add, anytime you have somebody who doesn't believe in your product that doesn't convert for us, even if they have massive following, if they don't genuinely get the product, it doesn't convert. - Exactly. Yeah, that's actually one of the biggest things for a full of marketing, 100%. - It's a great hack as well, that you guys build a company for creators and creators are using your product. So they're gonna be the best at marketing it and they're gonna have the most conviction around it. - Yeah, exactly. - So that's just a cool piece of advice build for creators specifically or build for. So what I'm confused about this girl, did your audience of poppy users that you got from that? Did they look like her, like were they similar to her or was it just that she did such a good job of presenting it? Does that make sense? - It was just such a good job of presenting it and the problem. The people were based on the interest. It wasn't like the demographic necessarily. So they didn't look like her, but these people had a common interest of trying to solve this like researching/content problem and she just pitched it really, really well. And it was very fascinating because up until now, I hadn't seen a TikTok like this. Most TikToks I saw were like 50 seconds long, one minute long and that was it. This was a vertical long form video and I'd never seen that. It was like three plus minutes and this video after the hook, the hook is just like this website feels illegal to know. But then she like goes into like two minutes, 30 seconds or almost three minutes of just deep dive tutorial like with the flips the phone and just start showing the app and walking and talking through it. And it's kind of a deep dive tutorial. It's not very fun or friendly or trying to grab your attention, Mr. B style type of like attention hacking. It's none of that. It's just showing the product and that was a really fascinating thing. And that's why I think it converted so much because we have had people who've gone a lot of views, sometimes million views plus, we had no sales. But that one we got a lot of sales was so focused on the problem itself. And so the people that we got from it looked like all different types of people but their one common thing was they were trying to either solve the problem of researching or content. So what did your guys' next few weeks look like after making 100K and like two weeks? Yeah, that was a fun two weeks. Let's just say this. For the next two weeks, we did nothing but take onboarding calls between 8 a.m. to probably 12 a.m. between three people, me, Kazi and the monoth, who is on the Pracian side. He's ahead of partnerships right now. And it was just one hour calls with every single customer, probably 200 calls. Why'd you do that? You want to go into that? We took all these one-on-one calls back to back and one of our assistants at the time who doesn't work with us anymore and you'll probably understand why after I explain it. But she forgot to put breaks in between. So we had these 30 minute calls back to back and it was literally from like 8 a.m. to like two or three a.m. the next day. It was like 20 plus hour stretch that we each did. And bro, it's just like call after call, no break and just a flood of these customers. And the reason why we did that is because we just genuinely want it to like talk to our customers and experience what they were experiencing, you know? And I mean, we were excited. We were like-- And then also just learn from like, why did you even buy the product? We were like, we are cells. We were like, what is going on? So you would walk them through how it works. All the different use cases. And then specifically, like that was the value you were providing and the value you were kind of taking was, why did you get this in the first place? And then maybe what tools can we add that are in silver? First thing, you were acting as consultants, which is we would learn, OK, why did you buy the product? That's one. I tell us information about like, OK, in what niche are we are we in at this point? Second thing is we would actually teach them how to use Poppy for their specific purpose. And the coolest part about it is towards like at the end of the call, they would get some kind of result, which is like a script or a book. And so it's like the ultimate consultation advice they could receive. It's like, it's like, you having to go pay someone $10,000 to help you write a viral YouTube video, for example. Your little just come to us and we help you with that. We would do that. We wouldn't just teach you the software. We would leave you with the YouTube script you could use. We would leave you with the email newsletter email that you could actually send out. What's the craziest success story you guys had early on with your AI software? The agency guy. Oh, yes. Onik. Is it Onik with the Facebook ads guy? His name was not on-- One was onik. So onik spent $800 on Facebook ads. He made $28,000 back. And all of his content for the ads and the organic content he made was just all scripted with Poppy. He was like, dude, I just sat in one session and made like 30 videos. We had this other guy who ran-- So how did he make the ads? Like just for people who haven't used the tutorial. Oh, sure. So the main thing he needed was the scripts for the ads. So what he did is he brought in all his content about his offer, how his offer worked, how everything worked, put it into Poppy, explained it to Poppy, and then asked Poppy to help him write all these different scripts. And so he pulled his content from Instagram, from YouTube, from Facebook ads. And then Poppy just based on these highly converting other ads that he fed to Poppy. He said, make them, but for me, based on my offer. And then Poppy just started writing all these scripts. And then he would just sit there and shoot like 20 videos and one go. And then he would start running them. Are there any other success stories that stick out to you particularly like a really big one? We'll get into some of the creators that you guys have worked with. - Flagrant. - Oh yeah, Flagrant Steam used it. They actually took the podcast from Flagrant with Donald Trump. They put it into Poppy and then they found like what are all the best parts that they should clip. And then they worked with Poppy to like identify those and then they put them up and then they got 1.5 million plus views and like just like the first few hours. And then we also have Luis who is from Ryan McIns team who what they do is they just create content for other people. They bring them in and then they shoot. And pretty much all the content they do, all the script and they do and they do. Also come from Poppy and these guys, I don't know how much exactly they do, but I do know they make you know, probably learn six figures. I'm on potentially. - Yeah. - Who are some other like who are the biggest five creators that use their software? - I would say there's Dan Martell's team. - Dan Martell? - Well, yeah. Matt Gray, Vanessa Lau. - Alia Bdahl's team uses that. - Alia Bdahl's team uses it. Pat Flynn is another big one who loves Poppy and he like swears by it as well. But those I would say like five of them are the biggest creators who use Poppy for sure. - God. Yeah, I don't want this to sound like an ad for Poppy too much, but I do also use Poppy when you guys reached out to me. I was like, mainly interested in just like working together, working together on a sponsorship basis. And then my research team was like, wait, this is actually really good. So we do use it for all of our videos because we used to have to watch every single podcast that someone had been on to get like Golden Gems and Golden Nuggets. And if we were like, what are 10 Golden Gems from this podcast, you guys the software wouldn't summarize and like skip over important parts. It like takes everything and forces out the good moments. You know what I mean? As opposed to like something like Chad Gbt, your Gemini, like they kind of just do some shortcut to summarize it and then go from there. - It dilutes your voice. - Right. - Glutes and water is down your actual voice and tonality too much. And that was one of the biggest frustrations that we were having. I was gonna say one more person's like, Jenny Hoy is actually, she's a big puppet user too. - Yeah, she was on the podcast several, maybe a year ago at this point, but that checks out 'cause she's the fastest growing shorts creator. - Y'all just crushing it, yeah. - What's the fastest AI side hustle to make 20K a month in 2026? - If speed is the thing, fastest the thing, I don't think you're realistically gonna beat copying something that's winning. Even though I know it's very antithetical to everything we've been talking about so far, but if the answer is like, how do we get there the fastest way and we're not caring about the longevity or the sustainability or the enjoyment factor or whatever, I think making copycat of something that's currently working. Like if there's an AI that's working right now and then you model that and you copy that. And what do you copy? Do you copy the software itself? Or do you copy the bark? strategy like. You'd put copy the products first. I would say probably both. You know, you copied the, like, I'll give you an example. When we were initially trying to start a software thing, we were different strategies. We were like, should we really build something we believe in? But like, who knows how long it's going to take and there's innovation and there's research and development? Or should we do something that makes us money fast? And if you listen to Hormosi and you listen to Noah Kagan and there take, will you or like the answer is do something that just makes money instantly, like today. And so then we basically took somebody's software that we knew was like making money. We built our own version of it. We put our own spin on it and that's what it's selling. We started doing a thousand dollars a day almost right away just sharing it. We would put it on our story and we would be like, hey, for fifty dollars, like we'll give it to you. And then we had people on our stories like starting to say yes or by and we would start calling them. And then we would be deadlifting and in between my reps, bro, I would see somebody said he wants to join. I'd be like, fuck this rep. I'd put that down and I'd just get on the call and close that guy. And then like Juliana Monterelli get back and fucking hit my deadlift. And it was great. But we didn't really believe in the thing that we were selling. It wasn't going to be this incredible thing. It was like a cash cow thing. But it works. Right? Like dad got us to a thousand dollars a day, which means that if we just kept it up, it would have been a thirty-k a month in not much time. So for short term money, it's like still something that's already working and go for it. But like big money is kind of in solving a problem that hasn't been solved yet. Yep. I would say that's probably where the biggest money is. I want to add to that. And this is a little bit of a different strategy. If you want to get a twenty-k a month quickly and I've seen people do this and I've told us to people which is find someone who has distribution. That could be an Instagrammer, a take talker, a YouTuber. Come to them, ask them what problem would they want solved. And then tell them, hey, I can solve this problem for you using software. You build a software. They are the distribution. They sell. And that is probably one of the easiest way I feel like where you can actually make some money. Because you have-- That's really interesting. Give me an example. Like let's walk through it. Well, let's just say, let's just say, Jack need, right? So let's just say, you have a YouTube channel. You have many subscribers, right? Let's just say I came to you, I'm a developer. I'm like, hey, Jack, what can I build for you where your audience can have value? Can I build a software where maybe people watch your podcast, they can go into it later on and then use your podcast data to ask questions, for example, and actually get valuable inside based on what they actually need. So let's just say I have a business and I want to ask questions on the stuff that you have, right? Then you're like, hey, actually, maybe you build a software and then I'll provide the distribution. I will build a software for you. We are a 50/50 split and then at this point, you just then talk about on your podcast and you probably put a price tag on it and then at that point, you can probably sell a good amount of-- A good amount of that point, yeah. Exactly. So if you're watching and you're watching on the Jack's podcast, maybe hit him up. He'll team up with that. Exactly. And they don't even need to take a 50/50 split. They could take a 10/90 split because you're the one with the brand and they would still make money if they're solving a genuinely valuable problem. Someone did this for me and the problem I was like, I was like, I wish I could just text an AI on my text messages app and be like, you know, send this guy a 50 bucks and just it connects to all the payment rails of however that person accepts money. And she started building, yes, she ended up raising like 750K for something else that she had already built, like two weeks later. But I was like, yeah, that would definitely work because it's free distribution for them. They're validating a problem that I have. So I would care about it. It's a really good idea. How do you guys make a viral AI tool? Like I know you just gave that, but like what are the other marketing methods you've used? A lot of people when they like do software, they will, you know, they'll price $10 a month, $10 a month and like that's the most they'll do. And you end up going for this thing like I just want to get MRR. How we approached it was more from the infrared space and it's like how do we get as much, you know, let's just like cash flow into the business while creating an amazing product. And instead of pricing a product like $10, $10 a month, we priced it at $98 per year. Like we were charging for Yelusus Christians, which is unheard of and a lot of softwares. And we, there's a big point of time where we did not even offer multi-suscriptors at all. Because of that, we were able to pretty much probably had, I know like 8x more cash flow than you would normally have as a result. And that allowed us to skyrocket a lot more faster because then we can invest more into the product, get developers, all of that. And think that was one of the biggest things that we also did that skyrocket in the business too. I think the dumbest thing people do is they do free trials with the software. They just see what like, they just look at like what Uber eats as doing or what the biggest software company in the world is doing. And they just try to replicate that, not realizing how much money you actually need to have to afford to offer free trials to like hundreds of thousands of people. That's like if I just like open the fucking mansion and just started offering food to like 10,000 people, like you need to have a lot of money to be able to do that. And where are you going to get the money from? And so I think pricing strategy is like really important. One valuable thing that I wanted to share that I think anybody from your audience can do if they're running their own business or they want to run their own business. When we were getting on onboard and calls with all these customers, almost every single time I would get off the call and I would like learn some of their phrasing. So like this one girl got off the call with me and she was like, she kept calling herself Neurospicy. She was saying, I'm very Neurospicy. I'm very ADHD. I'm very NeurodevVirtient. And I need to look at things visually and I cannot understand things written through text. Every single time I would just I would talk to them, I would be an amazing call. And the second I would get off, I would just go to the sales page and write that copy. And I'd be like, I'm super ADHD and I built this product and it's like, I'm very like we're both very NeurodevVirtient me and my co-founder. So we built something that's visual and it's not text based. And it was insane how many more sales we would get and we always collected the data on every single sale. We're very insane with our onboarding process and like data collection. We're very meticulous with it. Every time they fill out the tally form, we all would, there would be so many sales that would be like, I was like going to the sales page and then I saw you guys are like NeurodevVirtient and like very ADHD and that's just like me. And I was like, gonna buy it but that just like made me instantly buy it and I was like, oh, interesting. So you're looking at like a wordage that people use that are your target avatar. Yes. Everything is reverse engineered like that sales page is fucking genius. Like even the headline, you know, it's like made for founders, marketers and copywriters like the headline that we have on our landing page where it comes from is once we got a ton of sales, I literally typed in the word copywriter and I looked how much money that word has made us. I looked through all of the people's forms. And so for example, let's say you sign up and let's say you used to call yourself a copywriter. Well, that would be $400. But if 10 people sign up and call themselves copywriters, well, copywriter word has made us $4,000. You know, so I typed it in and copywriter word had made us like, let's just say 10K that month. But then I typed in the word founder and it had made us like 40 grand that month. And then we put the word content creator and that made us like 100 grand that month. So the first word in our headline is like it's made for content creators, founders and marketers and it's literally in that order. And everybody when they read it, they're like, oh, it seems like it's for me. Whenever you buy poppy, you have to fill out like a couple really important questions about like, why did you poppy? Who you are? What's your go with poppy? And then we have thousands of answers. We can then take those thousands of answers. Then use AI, use poppy and we actually like we're able to break down exactly like what you said, right? Which is like marketers, copywriters, you know, founders are actually using this. And for these specific purposes, then you take that knowledge and then put that onto the actual sales page. And that feeds your sales page. That feels your organic content. That feeds your ads. I mean, it's like it's so freaking valuable. That's your product market Fed right there. How do you make viral hooks once you know who you're selling to? Like if you know what's content creators, like what is the research you guys put into making the organic content? The biggest thing we try to do is replicate the thing that worked. Yeah. Which is that take that video, that one viral. We try replicating that and actually it was very difficult. It was really hard. We tried a couple different influencers and it wasn't really working too well until I found someone Instagram. And actually, like we just took a bet on a bunch of different content creators. And the biggest thing that we learned is like the people who might potentially do well for us are personal brand people because they talk about content. And this product was built for content creators. And so we end up doing was like we took a chance on him. We made a video and that video got like 100,000 views on YouTube on YouTube. And that is well like, okay, that locked then YouTube. YouTube is like one of the best platforms. TikTok and Instagram, they're very random with how they convert. They're very like lucky. I would say there's a lot of luck involved in there. And then YouTube is very consistent. Like for every thousand views, we make a thousand dollars. And it's just like. What's your YouTube marketing strategy? Similar where we do a ton of outreaches. What's funny is we get a lot of these people through Instagram. Instagram, almost all of the people we get, even if it's TikTokers or YouTubers, we get everybody from Instagram. But nobody ever converts on Instagram, which is funny. So none of their content ever converts on Instagram. We'll find these people on Instagram and see if they have TikToks or YouTube's. Then we'll have them make their content on YouTube if they have a YouTube following. Let's just say. And we do a ton of outreaches every single day. And then we talk to these people. And we, you know, from the retention perspective, I would say what makes us different is we treat them with a lot of respect and care. We build really good relationships with them. And that's shout out to Lance, who's right there behind the camera. He's incredible. The outreaches mostly done on Instagram. And we found that once we find these people and they make their content on YouTube, that's where it converts the most consistently for us. What do you guys find yourself tweaking, I guess, because I think it's been pretty calm and sentiment for a while that you should just like creators do what they think is best. But how do you guys approach tweaking it? The biggest thing when it comes to tweaking, it's actually not about like, hey, can you say this word or can you say this phrase? It's about, do they actually love your product? If they love your product, they will say all the right things. That's what made the first tape of videos so well is because she loved the product so much. And it felt so real. The second you tell someone like a content creator, hey, say this, it's an ad and nobody wants to listen to a fucking ad. People will skip that right away. That's the problem, right? But if they're going to make a dedicated video and they just use it for their own use case, they're like, well, I might as well just make a content about it. Here's how I'll use it. Use it if you want, right? You don't have to buy it. And I think that is the biggest tweak in terms of actual like video scripting content. Like I'll leave a dollar as a huge creator. His video didn't convert for us at all. He barely got any sales. And then Vanessa allows videos just like convert it like crazy. It's interesting. She's a smaller YouTuber from like if you compare it to the up dollar, I mean, no disrespect to her. She's a great YouTuber. And it, but it's just like you can tell like all these is like, I don't think he's ever used a product. It was like a paid partnership and it's, it's good, you know? And, but it's like, you can tell he's reading a script. When you watch Vanessa's, you can tell us not a script. She's so specific about the use case. It's very specific. And so when people are viewing that, it's like they can see the value of it because of how she's using it. And it's not shallow. There's a lot of depth to it. And that for us converts really highly. It's interesting. The example I think of like I think Uber Eats is a good use case for this. Like imagine if you've never used Uber Eats before, how you would speak about it if you're promoting it, it'd be like, there's this new tool that allows someone to come to your house for a small fee and they'll be there in about 15 to 30 minutes and you'll get your food and it saves you a lot of time. As opposed to someone's like, you know what? It's like 4 a.m. and like you're like drunk with your friends and like, you just want some like Taco Bell. Like you can get that shit delivered to your door for like five bucks. Exactly. Exactly. Like that's what someone would say who actually uses it over the itself. Exactly. But if you've never used it before, you probably say something like, Oh, here are the features. Here are the tools, not like the feelings and the massive difference. You're like, dude, I was fucking starving at 2.30, 70 a.m. last night and I ordered Uber Eats and it was mind blown. And if you're watching, even if it's an ad, you're going to like start using this app because you can tell just like you said, it's such a specific use case. Like you can't make it up. Yeah. And that's I think why part of the YouTube strategy that we have on the most important things when it comes to like besages, we should now do people. It's actually just making sure they use the product for the right reasons and the actual of the product. We do not do a deal with anybody who does not love the product period because of reason why it's because we've tried it. And every single time it's not profitable, we lose money on that deal. Every single time regardless of how big their brand is, how big their name is, it has never converted when it was just like a paid partnership and then they didn't actually really use the product for themselves. So that's why we kind of stopped at and whenever people found value from it genuinely in their own life. So like the first thing we always do is we never go to the deal first. The first thing is always after we're past getting in touch with somebody, then it's getting them to use the product to see if they actually enjoy and find value. And if they love it, that's when we move to the next step of like, okay, now maybe let's do a deal. And what's interesting part as a result of it is you will find that the deals actually become better because when somebody might charge, let's just say, I just an example, $10,000 for a video, they might even be okay with lowering the upfront cost because they just love it and they see value in it themselves. Because they might be like, oh, well, I might be making video about this at some point. Anyways, so might as well just be paid for it, right? Because I love it. So you will actually find better deals as a result of that too. And you're a creator yourself. You'll probably experience it. We were like, I really don't like this thing. I mean, and maybe you don't do this, but it's like, if you don't enjoy working with somebody, you'll just charge them double what you might want to charge. I don't know. I'm drinking this drink right now. If they reached out to me, it'd probably be like cheaper because like, oh, I actually drink this thing. I don't feel bad about it. It's natural to make content, it probably makes sense. Interesting. So being kind is profitable. Why did you guys dump your girlfriends to put your start up? That's a good question. Yeah. Well, you know, we say that a little bit tongue in cheek. It was just around that time I was breaking up out of my relationship. Anyways, and around that time was the same time we masterminded in Austin or Austin, Austin, Austin, Texas. And we were just like, dude, this is the perfect time. Like it was we go. And I think right around that time, he was also considering breaking up. So we were both considering we're like, bro, this is the best fucking time we could live together. We could brainstorm and do this. So it kind of, it wasn't like we broke up out of the relationship because of doing the software. We wanted it to software. It was also around that time. The relationship was kind of coming to its natural end. And the timing just became perfect. That's interesting. Okay. I was curious if it was like, we're going to lock in, break up with our girlfriends. I'm going to do this. I mean, it does help when it's like just to two of you, honestly. Like if it's just two of you locked in working. Yeah, because like when you have your girl involved, like you can't help but want to watch Netflix at night or like go out to dinner. Like you just can't help it. Like it's just like biologically, like I remember if I am around my girlfriend or we're living together, it's like, I'll work my ass off. And then it is really nice to go on a walk or unwind or do something. And it just, you can't help it. It just makes you softer. But then it just makes you comfortable and no matter what you say or do. But then when we're just like together, bro, it's like two a.m. and we're like, dude, what if we fucking do this and what if we add this? What if we add this at the product and we're just like, oh, I know the wipe it all the time. It's screaming and working and it's, it's just non-stop. But it also doesn't feel like dreadful. It's actually exciting. I'm not, I'm not with Nas and I just like, oh, well, I got to go hang on my girlfriend. You know, when are you done with your fucking idea, bro? Are you done yet? But when we're together, it's like just way better than that and than that type of thing. Which, you know, if I got a girlfriend now or got a wife now, she would have to be like in the fucking thing, building the company to a billion dollars with me. Otherwise, cause it was sardiculture guys off. Just wanted to tell the audience that pop. The AI is currently hiring and looking for talented people in content creation, advertising or development. These guys are the first people to sponsor this podcast consistently and getting to know them over the past few months. They are great vibes. They work hard and they don't want to sell their company anytime soon. They want to be billionaires. So if you're someone that's skilled in marketing, content creation or coding, just go to JackNale.com/poppyhigher and you can apply to work with these guys right now. It's my opinion that AI and content creation are the most booming industries right now. And if you want to be at the forefront of it, poppy AI is at the intersection of both. So again, just go to JackNale.com/poppyhigher or scan the QR code on screen. But anyway, guys, you can finish talking. You know, if I got a girlfriend now or got a wife now, she would have to be like in the fucking thing building the company to a billion dollars with me. Otherwise, it's not happening. What's the one mistake creators are making when using AI to make content or go viral? I feel like sometimes they use too much of it. And they end up sounding too robotic as a result. What I'm seeing a lot nowadays with content creators is you want to find a good amount of balance between. And I use AI to help me with like come up with the hook or come up with the idea. But then I think you should still a lot of it has to be from, okay, just from your own story and how you want to speak in terms of content. That's what I'm seeing a lot more of nowadays. There's nowadays. There's just so much AI slop that's happening. And in real life, yes, it gets views, but it doesn't really help. Like, it doesn't really move the world forward in any shape or form. And what you see nowadays is a lot of more people are like, okay, let me just be very raw with my content. And sometimes not even edit it. And instead it just like be fully who I am. Instead of being like this very. edited version of myself. Right. I think a good takeaway there is, like, take your hook that you generate with AI, maybe. Make sure it's organic to you. But then say it as though you were on FaceTime with your friend, and you were saying that story to him, you know, and that'll probably get like a more natural version. But do you guys think I do see some creators that are like buttoned up, all their words are perfect. They're very like not organic that do well. Yeah. What do you think that is? Have you given thought to that? I think both types of creators when is just what do you enjoy more? Because one thing we take out of the equation when we're doing creation is the creator. Like, what do you actually enjoy? So for example, my brother is very good with cinematography and camera working all of this. If he saw the setup I use, he would vomit. He'd be like, what the fuck is this? This sucks. You know, he would be disappointed in me as his brother. But I love that setup because it's very simple and it makes me excited. And when I'm excited, I make content that I think does better. It resonates with people and it resonates with that energy. If you enjoy this type of format, then you should keep leaning into this harder. Everybody has a different format. Chris Williamson has a very clean cut format. I know if Nas had his own podcast, it would be like that style. Yeah. I am very like raw, uncut, and just psychotic and crazy energy. That's the type of content I would like to create. And I think we shouldn't lose that. And if we have AI to kind of guide us through like, okay, if we're doing the introduction to this podcast, but I think that's a great use case. You know, you'll, you won't hit. You won't miss the critical key points. You don't have to use your brain for something that's uninteresting. Your brain where it's most valuable is like the curiosity that you have and the valuable questions and the follow-ups that you ask. And you know, that's what makes the diary of CEO amazing as well. But you guys can outsource all the other stuff like let's save in the research sometimes. You know, it could help you put all of these thoughts together, but then you can formulate your own thoughts. I think as long as AI is used as like a supporting thing and then you keep your actual like voice alive, whatever that is and you lean into that, I think that's fantastic. As long as you're enjoying the content you're making. Cause you what chess strategy do you apply to making viral content? That's a great question. For context, I am 2000 rated, which is a top 1% in the world for chess. And I was at Pada Steel Chest tournament and it was just, it's so much fun. Like I enjoy it. Compared to Grandmaster, I'm still a baby. Okay, so Grandmaster is like a whole different level. It's like a red belt. What's interesting is a lot of people think chess is about thinking so many different moves ahead. And sometimes you can think multiple moves ahead, but most of times one move is enough. So I'll give you an analogy. Okay, let's say you came and just you didn't say anything and you just waived your hand at me from far away. I didn't even know who you were. Can you guess what my reaction would be? No, no, right? You have no idea what my reaction would be. But now let's say you walked up to me and I was a total stranger and you just like took your fucking fists and punched me in my fucking mouth. Yes. What would it be? You specifically maybe. Let's say I'm a generic person. Like let's say you go to a random person in the street and you just punch them in their fucking mouth. What do you think would happen? Probably just like fighter flight mode. Like they did the runner. So you can already calculate moves ahead in that situation. Because in chess, there's a concept when you have forcing moves, you can calculate ahead. So in this case, the forcing move punching somebody is a very forceful thing. They're either going to run away or they're going to punch you back. Now you've narrowed it down to only two possibilities. They're probably not going to offer you a fucking energy drink. They're probably not going to weigh that you. You've eliminated a lot of those things. So when you're in when your back is against the wall, you can calculate a lot of moves ahead. But if you have something like a non-forcing move, like a wave, there is endless. They could smile at you. They could ignore you. They could also say hi to you. Endless possibilities, almost impossible to calculate. At that point, just making one move is enough. This could apply, you know, in business in a bunch of things. There are a lot of things in business is there's so many endless possibilities. It's sometimes very hard to calculate a couple of moves ahead. So, you know, if we're trying to determine what pricing is perfect for Poppy, is it $200 or $300? You're never going to know you can only make one move. You can just make it, let's make it $250. Let's just see what happens. You can only think one move ahead. There's no point to having a circle jerk session with like your whole team and fucking brainstorming and having a meeting and hiring consultants and asking your coach, it's useless. No amount of planning and thinking moves ahead will help you. It'll just slow you down. It'll make you worse. You can only think one move ahead, which is nobody really knows the answer except for your audience. Just make the move just wave. See what happens, right? But then there are scenarios where if you're in a negotiation, now it starts to become very forcing. If you go to a person and I'm like, hey Jack, like, what if we paid you like $0 for something or you go up to somebody else, you can already kind of start to calculate that person is going to take that as a sign of disrespect. Maybe not even ever talk to me again. Okay, now I can start to see. So, there's certain places that are more breath when there's more breath like testing pricing. It's very complicated. One move ahead is enough. Make the pricing $250 and don't think about it. And then when there's depth, a specific thing like a negotiation, then you can start to think five or 10 moves ahead. So, you're kind of the take-ways strategize when the outcomes are finite and take action when the outcomes are infinite. I make sense. Yes. I like that a lot. I just play a move in chess. It's like, call me. You just play a move that's good enough. You know, you never going to have a chess is very similar to business because you have to operate always with imperfect information in chess. It's impossible to have perfect information. It's because the possibilities are like more than the atoms in the universe. It's that crazy. So, you just move. It teaches you to move under time pressure with imperfect information, which is exactly like business. You literally have to move under time pressure. We have all these competitors with the deal with and copycats coming up. All the stuff is happening. We have imperfect information. We have like five or eight possible moves that we could make. We could be horribly wrong and completely throw away the game and lose. Or we could be right, but we got to make the move. One thing we know for sure, if you don't make the move and you run out of time, you guaranteed lose. And sometimes in chess, you can make a lot of bad moves. But you can make one good move that brings you back into the game. Yes. I like that a lot. I also think chess is useful in terms of time constraints. When you do speed chess or anything because it's like, we got to take action on this now. It kind of gives you in that practice of urgency because urgency is very important when building a startup. And a lot of people are like, we can build it later. Yeah. Makes sense. You guys use a lot of software at your company. What are the five best AI tools in 2026? Well, I have great answers for this. Obviously, if we don't mention Poppy, outside of Poppy, I would say the one that I use a lot is Claude, freaking love Claude. I think for a lot of people, lovable is going to be amazing because you can not know anything about coding, just go and talk to this thing and you'll have an app in two minutes and it will blow your freaking mind. So I think lovable is bringing me back to Claude. So what was the, just give me like a brief thing for each one. Yeah. Claude is just like a way better chat GPT in my opinion. So if you use chat GPT, everybody knows chat GPT. Claude has better reasoning. It always has like better understanding, better decision making. I'm better writing too. Better like way better at writing. And that's just been my experience. And I've used chat GPT in Gemini and all these, but that's what I found from Claude. Specifically, I use Claude like opus 4.5. And then I always have thinking enable like deep thinking enabled because it just gives you very like solid answers. So yes, you wait a little bit longer, but it's always worth it because you get the right answers. Then I would say if you're in the coding world, then something like cursor is freaking awesome. Oh, that notion notion has become an amazing act of them. They're AI is across the whole company. Yeah. So you can literally just tell it like, Hey, I'm trying to create this document. It will just create a document for you or if you ask a question about whatever was in your whole workspace, so we'll just find it for you. That's a big one. And I think the other one that we use heavily, honestly, let me let me just say a little bit on notion notion is freaking awesome. So like one thing I did, for example, okay, I want to give a little deeper use case for a notion. Hiring people is a tough thing. I'm sure you've probably experienced that yourself. And what we did is we took our culture fit. Like we made this video on what makes a good culture fit. It's like an hour long deep dive screen share one of those videos. We took the entire transcript. We put it into notion and we said, this is our $1 billion value like system. Then we have our pipeline of everybody that we're hiring. We have like a con bond type of thing that's in notion. So we have like this person applied to work with us. You know, let's just say land supply to work with us is affiliate manager. Then when I do a interview with Lance, I'll take the transcript, put it into his pipeline, like, where I interviewed him inside of notion. And then I'll just ask notion something like, I'll be like, hey, take my interview. I did with Lance, and I want you to cross reference it with the $1 billion value system that we have at the framework that we have on our team. See how good of a match he is and use the scorecard, build the scorecard out of it, and score him from 0 to 100 with the passing score of like, let's say 80 being the passing score or whatever. And then it will go through his interview with the entire transcript of the value system, and then instantly give me if it thinks it's a good culture fit or not. And it's been such an unbelievable tool because it used to take me so many hours to always do the culture fit interview. Now anybody on my team can do a culture fit interview because they just run that with notion and it like instantly tells them and then notion will automatically go and update that person to and it'll be like this X, like no, not a good fit or like check mark, good fit. And so it's probably good too for identifying like what are the bottlenecks in hiring, like what role do we need for this company to scale higher? I mean, I know that's kind of a basic one, but if you have all the information, like all the payroll, all the stuff like that's probably a good solution. That's so interesting that it takes the entire workspace and works off it. All your operations can literally run inside notion. Yeah. What's the fifth one? I was gonna actually say air table. We use air table a lot. Like a be easier table. Pretty much all of our data is, I mean, a lot of our data when it comes to, I know if you want to talk about your stuff, it's got the bottom half. There's like we have this new thing where you want to talk about it? No, you can't. I wasn't even gonna talk about that. I was actually gonna talk about something else. Okay. Okay. But we have this new thing right now on the air table that we're every time we have an expense that comes in, it comes through an inter-air table and then actually categorize as every single expense. He built the sulking in credit for that one. Check. And he named it Bobby, which is super cool because he's Poppy's little brother. Yeah. He's very cute. He has a very small tie and he only has one brain cell. But he's the numbers guy. And the cutest picture ever. So cute. But air table, you could do pretty much anything with it. Including creating forms, we use a lot of form forms from customers, things like that. That is huge. And so that's not the way I would recommend it. The optional one that nobody else can access. But it's something I would love to just touch on is we built this thing internally for our team and it's called Poppy Chat. And oh my god, dude, I use it all the time. I'm probably gonna make it public at some point. It's not a ad. I'm not trying to sell anything. It's just something we've been using internally. And I just love that like you can imagine like eye messaging or slack. But right within that, you have your AI. And that AI is connected to everything in your business. So I'm talking to Rachel, who's on our team. And then as I'm talking to her, I'll just go at Poppy and be like, hey, can you also look up all of these flights? And then they'll like find all the flights. And then I'll be like, Rachel, go ahead and just like book this. And then we're just doing, we're talking and brainstorming. But then we have AI right there. And then it and then it always makes you think like, why doesn't I message just have AI right there at your disposal every single chat or group chat that you have. That's what I was building with that girl. Yeah. That's cool. I messages with just like all the connections. Yes. And it was like touch your phone number. It's incredible. Like if you do end up building on using it, it's like you will literally be like, why the hell did I not use this? It's like I cannot live without it. I just have to improve its performance because it's like so slow because I was only developer working on it. But like dude, it is so awesome that it's just connected to everything. Like I'll have my fitness coach and he'll be right in there. And I'll be like, can I eat this? And he'll just ask the AI right there. And I would like, yeah, actually, cause he can eat this food. Okay. Cool. And then boom. He'll just Yeah. Did you finish your AI tool or no? No, she she built a separate thing that was like automatic outreach. I guess like send emails to people in the fitness space for brand deals. Like she was supposed to deliver the MVP on a Friday. And then she's like, Jack, we can't meet on Friday anymore because I just raised 755. The other start off and I was like, damn, like, how do you guys get influencers to promote your product for zero dollars? Like just commission. The answer that is help them actually love the product. That's the biggest one. And you treat them like human beings, probably amazing, not just names and a spreadsheet. You reach out to them, you say, hey, I love what you do. I love your videos. Can we talk? You get in a call. You bring them actual value on the call and how they can use it for their own business and show them how how they can use for their own business. Then you let them use it. And they let them see the fact that, oh my god, this is so helpful to me. Then you get in a call and they're like, hey, would you be down to actually make content on it? On just affiliate commissions. And then a lot of a lot of times they just honestly will say, yes, dust has been the easiest way so far. I just want to add some tactical tidbits to this. So a couple of things. One, go for a smaller influencer because bigger influencers are almost always going to charge you some kind of upfront fee. Smaller influencers, they're much more flexible. Also, oftentimes we found it's a mistake to go to really big influencers because they are usually not that profitable because they know how to value themselves the right way or maybe sometimes too high. Whereas smaller influencers, they don't know, like they're underpriced basically most of the times. And you can get somebody who's a smaller influencer, get way higher conversions than a bigger influencers. That's something we've seen. I think you're paying someone for conversions or you're paying someone for brand plus conversions. So I think smaller influencers, there's no brand attachment for them to associate with something which is why they can work off commission. Yeah. And then the second thing is this. So another tactical thing is once you do have somebody who went only off of commissions and made money, then you turn that into a case study and then you show that to other people. And so that's one of the things we did right away. As soon as we got that one went, we made a case study with that girl. We put it everywhere. And then every single day we would get new affiliates signing up from our just from our own software. And that also actually made us a lot of money because our customers would just become affiliates automatically and then start to like follow the same formula that she was using and then make money. And then you can show that case studies to other influencers as well to get them. I will add one last tactical tip and I think it's super important actually. If you want people to just you know talk about your product on affiliate basis, price your product correctly. So if I'm someone who's a counter-creator and I want to sell something, let's just say, and if I know that I can make $80 from one sale, I will a lot more like to be okay with doing it on just commission versus if it let's just say it's $10 a month product where I make $2 per sale. I'm not going to do that. Yeah, this is a very important point. This is actually another big reason that that was amazing that you brought that up. This is another big reason my monthly is so bad. A lot of software companies do monthly or free trial because the affiliates promoting you, they're either doing the free trial, which they get nothing or the person upgrades to monthly after the free trial and then they get like a $2 commission off of that or $5 commission off of that. So that's a really good point. I mean, you literally have counter-creators affiliates who make between $1,000 to $10,000 and someone who's made $50,000 in one month. So the price is strategy that we have put together is actually something like I feel like nobody ever talks about this. It's such a good price to strategy because not only that it allows us to have more cash flow, but it also allows us to get more influencers. Yeah, because when it's expensive, the people get paid better. Exactly. And there's the return. Remember how much you would panic about the pricing in the early days? I know, I was a panic. Every time you increase the price, I'm like, "Oh, fuck, what? What is the price?" How much money did you guys make last month? 600? 500, 600? We made $550,000. So what does that put your company valued up? Between $50 to $100 million because we have 6 million plus they are at this point. And if you have an AI company that's actually good, not just like a slop company, people use it and a lot of creators depend on it. Your multiple is over 20x easily. And so, perplexity is multiple is 190x. How long did it take you guys to build a $1 million company? At this point, it's a year and a half. What would you say was the key unlock that made that so quick? Damn, that was a fucking hard question, bro. I would say, I always want to say this a lot. There is a lot of luck. I think nobody wants to admit that, but I will say that there is a lot of luck to some of these things. But, taking the look factor aside, because we could have fallen in love with some shitty fucking product idea, right? It'd been obsessed with it. So there is a little bit of, we also happen to love, we could have loved tube notes. I was building tube notes before. It's a. It's an app that allows you to take notes on a YouTube video you're fucking watching and I was obsessed with it And we could have gone down that path, you know, there's so many paths you can go down on so But just for us I'll just say for us we chased our curiosity relentlessly We were we were stuff that we love we built something we love and then a couple of other key things we were Pretty good At the fundamentals of what we were building for example, we've been software developers for oh, oh We also have been content creators for a while so it's not like we're just making it up out of our ass like We know what good content bad content looks like like when you said earlier Hey, when I make content with poppy it sounds better than chat GPT It's because like chat GPT wasn't made by a content creator. It was made by a software engineer There's a reason why this content sounds better because other like we want to shoot ourselves when we're having chat GPT Dialute our voice and turn us into a robot like it's not like this. It's like this like chat GPT has these This is revolutionary like it has its own ways that are very telling that it's AI so I think The hard things you have to get those right which are fundamentals were right we were experts at the problems we were solving I think those are the core things if you have a big problem and you have expertise in that problem There's no shortcut to that unfortunately like there's no shortcut like we spent 10 years like becoming software developers You know like really understanding and then 10 years become a content creators Yeah, and I'll be honest. You know no matter how much I want to like encourage people and I love encouraging people But it's like dude you wouldn't build this fucking app if you don't know coding you're not gonna build it like lovable isn't gonna build you this app It's gonna get you started on something You know it's gonna get you somewhere so I don't want to make you demotivated But I want to like set your expectations right like if you're watching this or whatever and you have aspirations like Work really hard at something and be obsessed with it like luckily we loved coding and we spent a lot of time Really mastering it same thing with content creation We spent a lot of time mastering it because it's hard to get a million subscribers on YouTube and not even on entertainment channel on a coding channel It's hard and we really mastered those crafts and then we come and then we had business knowledge from like growing our other companies And then we brought all of that into this so like you know step one Mastery and that's like the hardest step, you know spend a couple of years mastering something So have you guys had any ideas for other softwares that you think could Make millions of dollars. I mean, there's a bunch like one of them that we had was we called us this prompt flow Yeah, which which was like allows you to basically version control prompts because it was so difficult for me when we were building some Earlier versions of Poppy to like you know try a promise to get this response and then you could then you could never actually see The difference and we are a bluely built this we little bit this for us initially and it was really really useful actually What it does is like you go ahead. Let's just say you want to write the email right yeah, it's a prompt It's a really long prompt you say that you you have the prompt you write to an email But let's just say you want to have it written differently for example It's a different tone then you want to try a different prompt right and so what it does it saves different versions All prompts with their responses that things go back see what you changed so that you can you know basically correctly Improve the prompt as you go. Yeah, a database of prompts. It's a really good idea Honestly, I don't know any tool that does that but and the main people it's for it's not really for A normal consumer. It's actually for developers that are building AI into their apps And they have to use a lot of version controlling of the prompts because they want to make sure that if Because if they change like for example if what behind the scenes we change something and we we change one prompt and we make it wrong All of our customers would get fucked up and so we really need to version control it properly and everything So it would be very helpful if we had a tool like this So the benefit of this would be who would our customers be every AI company Every company that uses AI has a need for this and those would be or enterprise customers would be the customers for this I mean, there's insane amount of money with the product like that I mean, I mean after funny enough after we actually built this cloud But it's into their own system. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, probably to get a lot further and actually create a marketplace for prompts I mean like wads one is like really stupid. Yeah, it's like Prompting is a huge part of a eye. So anything related to a yeah, you could probably pick that niche and then build a Business out of that. Yeah, or building AI to messages just like a harm doing like that will make you say like this app If if we weren't just growing poppy itself like the poppy chat app would make a fuck ton of money One more one which I think I mean you started this again, but it's like building AI that understands your emails and texts you the right emails Like you know how you get a bunch of emails that was like that's there's a lot of spam What that is shit you actually need to know. You go ahead. Yeah, so I built this tool and it basically takes your like because I hate email I love texting what it does is it looks through all your email and any email that's like worthy That's important like let's just say oh you have a podcast with jack nale it literally texted to you And it looks like you just got a text from a friend and it'll be like super small But it gives you the gist and so my emails were being handled by my text basically So that was very valuable the expense tool that we've made is basically like a cfo but AI like that's a huge opportunity And it categorizes all my expenses for me What you would pay a bookkeeper to do a thousand dollars a month or five hours a month For a company of our size you would pay a bookkeeper probably two to three thousand hours a month And then you'd psa fo to actually categorize it even more So this is like a three to five thousand a month expense that this tool Automatically does so you're saving 20 to 40 grand a year by using this tool And it does it way better than them and it understands the way better than them Um, does it really is it a build these tools like how long were to take that one you could probably build it like you know um In a in like a week or a few weeks um, I mean Grat you know, it's like a Leonardo DiCaprio. No, not Leonardo DiCaprio. Leonardo Da Vinci the guy who draws stuff right they He was at a cafe and the dislady comes up to him and he draws something for her And then she tries to take it and he says it's really expensive you know, let's just say it's like a million dollars She's like why should I pay a million dollars for this? I saw you took you fucking 30 seconds to make this He's like it didn't take me 30 seconds. It took me 40 years And you know, so it's like it takes me a week, you know, but like Um, maybe somebody it might take longer or shorter Depending on their experience level. How long have you two known each other? six years Come on bro, we last we out lasted multiple relationships, bro. We out lasted multiple relationships. Let's go Yeah, I mean, we started what 2020? 20 no 2019 I think around there. Yeah, about yeah, actually. Yeah, you're right six years 2020. Yeah, how'd you guys meet? Uh crazy story actually met the Instagram because I was making content on on coding and I saw your YouTube channel and I was all this so cool and I reached out to him at some point Brent and I know I still I actually screen shoted a couple I think in muffled a month the earlier I actually went through all the mess and I said, "creation all the mess just like I read my fucking product bro." And I was like, dude, I love what you're building. Can I make a piece of content for you actually? Yeah, and we end up making a End up making a jingo tutorial for him. Yeah, um, and then like a coding tutorial Then he end up interviewing me like a Instagram live interview and that's kind of how our relationship started at that point. Yeah, so Instagram live Do you? Instagram live? Yeah, and then the real way that initially fully started after that was like I needed a Instructor for a JavaScript course. I wanted to launch a JavaScript course, but I just wanted to be the marketing guy I didn't know a JavaScript, but I knew it was hot our audience needed that shit product market fit, you know So I was like, well, I don't know JavaScript I hit you up He was like the god of JavaScript and I was like fuck it and I'm like the branded as the king of Python and Papa Python is what they would call me Python as a programming language And then for him he was he was gonna be the JavaScript guy and I'm like basically how I made my entire brand around Python I'm like I could bring him in we could replicate that process We could make him like the king of JavaScript and then sell this product and that's how he initially came in and he was gonna come to California for Like some trip or some I was actually I was I was in Las Vegas for a conference and I was gonna go back to Michigan And instead of going back to Michigan I can't sell my flight last minute and I decided to go to California just because I was like I kind of want to meet these guys And I want to be in California I funny enough I came to California. I called him up like bro. I I'm here. Can I stay your place? A randomly he was like yeah, surely one bad bro. Yeah, he was like, yeah, sure I ended up actually going to this place meaning the whole team meeting him there And it was supposed to be just like a literally like a like a one week trip and it ended up being a whole one month trip Because we just loved working together so much and we had so much fun together and that that month I think started everything else for us. So when did you go stop working together? We start working together a couple of years after a couple of years and we were running Clara programmer And I and I'm going and building a software agency around a software agency Yeah, because you wanted to build an agency and he stopped and then you pursued your own agency Yeah for like a year or something - Yeah, yeah. - And then why'd you guys bring it back together? - That's a good question. I think we mean him. We always love the working together. And we always just, I think we had, like it's an amazing bond together, dude. - Even after we kind of went our separate ways, we would do masterminds every couple of months. We would help each other out in business. And we would do what an Austin, we'd do it incredibly selflessly. Like when we would mastermind, he would help me so much, not just with my business, but every aspect of my life. And he would be relentless for like eight hours brainstorming with your 12 hours brainstorm about my business, my life and everything. That's very rare. And it had no benefit to him. - Yeah, unlike Quest for Him, like he would help me a fuck ton as well. And I think at some point like in Austin, Texas, we were just like, hey, why are we flirting? Let's just fuck. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. We just love working some, we love working. And we always want to build a softer tool. And we use some points that like, dude, let's just, let's just build it. What are we waiting for? Let's just, let's, let's go to San Francisco. Let's try building something and that's what we end up doing. - Yeah, I kept pitching him on that. I was like, bro, we gotta build a software. We gotta do something together because every time we were together, like we would come up with these breakthroughs. Like every time I would be done hanging out, I think my business would improve like crazy. I think his business would improve. And we're just like, what are we doing, bro? Like if we just do something, if we build something together, it would be great. And we always had a dream of software. You know, like the coding business was like, you know, like if you've seen those videos where there's somebody who's a boxer and they're like, prime years, but then they get fat and then they turn into like a boxing coach for somebody else, right? Teaching coding was like that. It was like, we had turned fat, not a shape, and we were just teaching other people, like, here's how you code and here's how you do it, right? But then we were like, you know what? We looked at each other and we're like, what if we got shredded and start getting in the fucking ring again? What if we went back in and fought? What if instead of telling them about how to build a software, we fucking showed them. We built our own goddamn software. And then we locked eyes and we were like, that's fucking it. Let's break up with our girlfriends. Let's look to San Francisco. Let's goddamn build this thing from scratch. And we did it and we turned it into a fucking 50 million, a hundred million dollar company. And it feels great because it's like, we were born to fight. And for us, the fighting being in the ring is like coding and software. And it feels, you know, even more than the money, it just feels amazing that we're getting to do what we actually love doing. And we got to break out of our golden handcuffs, which was, you know, the brands that we had built and the money that we were making with the other stuff that we were doing. But it never felt like freeing and alive. It wasn't like, we weren't building software for ourselves. That was our dream. Like, bro, if we were making five cam months, like we were about to go broke building this company and we were looking at each other and not a single time we had a doubt. You know what we did think about? We were like, whose basement are we gonna sleep in? Your parents or my parents, when we were about to go bankrupt. - It's a tell me about that. What was the lowest moment, or what was rock bottom of building a hundred million dollar company? - We had a bunch of rock bottoms. I mean, we would be brainstorming on, I remember when we were at that other, the Airbnb in San Francisco, where this one random dude, one day showed up in the fucking house and woke me up. It was super weird. - I would say one of the rock bottoms actually had this. Like, it was very late, like September of 2020, at this point four. And we were near, we were near till the end in terms of how much money we had. I think we had only about three months left in terms of actual money we can use. - How much money was that? - Nine thousand dollars left, and we were spending four thousand dollars a month mind you, unlike developing these things like that. - We're new money coming in. - Yes, exactly. - Like zero dollar. - So zero income, four thousand dollars, four thousand dollars a month expenses. And on top of that, like, we were trying, and nothing was working. We were making our own content that could get million views. There would be no sales. We would be pushing out to emails towards a hundred thousand people list, no sales from there. We would be making YouTube content, no sales from there, we were getting influencers, no sales from there. And we'd be working our assets off to do webinars and we had no sales from there. - Yeah. - And we were starting a one webinar a day. - Yeah. - And it's like, what do you think at that point? What do you do? You've tried everything, you've tried it. I feel the marketing, you've tried it. Our own content, we've tried webinars. Nobody was just buying, and I think that was one of the lowest points that we had, we were just constantly thinking about, are we doing the right thing? But honestly, at the same time, I just always knew we were never, we were never, we were never gonna stop. - It's weird, but it was also one of the most fun times. - Yeah. - It's like it's home. But I specifically remember being in the kitchen and looking at you and going, this feels like shit. - Yeah. - Is it gonna feel like this every day? Like we just always felt like we were never making any progress. - You wake up in your hardest pounding, yeah, single day in the morning. - Yeah, I would say anxiety is my shot of espresso. I'm like, I don't need coffee because I just wake up with anxiety, and then I'm just, but I loved it, 'cause I'm just ready to go. But it felt awful and also freeing at the same time, 'cause we could just do whatever we wanted to. Now there's a lot of management and team building and meetings and all the stuff that I don't wanna do, bro. I don't wanna lead anybody. I just wanna code. I wanna be a developer. This was one of the funnest times. We had, we would just go into our layers, we'd have fun, we would just code. We would honestly most of the time, we would not even think about the money most of the time, honestly, and it's like, what money was there to think? - Yeah, yeah. (laughing) - It's a perfect, perfect. - And we knew the fact that if we were just gonna go run dry, we would just figure out something else. - Like. - And that was just always in our minds. - Did you guys have any big argument at the time, like one of you wanted to quit or? - No, I don't think we had big arguments, honestly. - No, that was another thing about our relationship. We never had arguments. Like, it taught me about how my personal relationships should be, bro. I'm like, why am I arguing with my girls so much? Like, there shouldn't be any arguments. Like, it was very, very smooth. I would say like, the only conversation we had was like, it wasn't even that big of a thing, but it was like, you were doing some of your agency at the time. You were doing like 20% of your agency, and you were doing 80% of this, and I was just trying to convince him to like, go 100% into this, but it was at the very, very start, very, very beginning stages, but like, I knew how he operated. I know how I operate. Like, as soon as our personalities are like opposites, so I take things from zero to one, he takes things from one to 100. And so the second something becomes obvious, I get bored, the second something becomes obvious, and it becomes real and he goes all in. So I knew he would go all in once it makes money, or there's some kind of tangible result. And then as soon as that happens, usually I'm like, oh, well, I figured this out, like, leave me another problem to solve. But as soon as we had some inkling of like results, and we started doing the series too, at the time that was like, day in the life of building an AI SaaS to 10K a month, and that ended up getting 700,000 views and stuff. And so we had a couple of signs of early success, and it was pretty quickly after that. I mean, we were both just 100%. But our goals are very aligned. I think that's like one of the biggest things I would tell to anybody who was gonna build it with a co-founder, like, make sure you fucking know who you're building it with. It's like, we've gone through some hard shit together. Like, we've cried together. Like, if you haven't cried with your co-founder, like, I don't think you should do business with them, genuinely. We've cried, we have gone through, like, you know, people, people fucking yelling at us, people, people, people, people, we got. - So we got everything. And so crazy shit. That builds an amazing bond, and then that builds an amazing alignment in the end of day two. - Yeah. - And that's why it made it so easy too. - What would you say is the framework you use to scale something from 10K to 100K, 500K a million a month? - Yeah. My simple approach to that is just repeatable works. Repeatable works. And so like, when we found out the fact that affiliates was just working, it's like, how can we do more of that? And there was a couple of times when it just was not work, would not work, would not work until it started to work. - Right. - So let me put you in a scenario. Like, this podcast, let's say this podcast does $10,000 a month, and we do four guests a month. How would you get it to 100K? Like what are the first questions you'd be asking me? - Well, first question is like, how much are you making? Like what are you, how much money are you making? Let's just say, how are you making the money? - Yeah, let's just say all brand deals in YouTube AdSense. - Sure. If you're gonna do brand deals in YouTube AdSense, and the question becomes is, how can I, how can you do more content? So how can you do more videos per month? That's the first thing. And then how can you increase, how much you're charging per brand deal? So it's just the variables of the money. It's like, how do we increase the content? How do we increase the number of ads? How do we increase, how viral videos go? - When we were doing content, we wanted to make a bunch of money with content, clever programmer one time. And we ended up doing $1.5 million in 90 days from just content, no courses, nothing. And one thing that I think would be really valuable is, and I don't know much about your content. business so take it all with the grain of salt. But and I'm sure you're doing a lot of these things too, but I think you going and thinking about who would make the most money from sharing their services or whatever that matches with your brand that you also would like and love to get behind. And then doing like not these one-off transactional deals, my language is crass, but maybe somebody can just beep it out. But it's like most people who do sponsorships and stuff, it's very transactional hooker like experience. And it leads to very short-term deals that are like 10k, 5k, but that's kind of it. And what I discovered, me and the team discovered at the time was we started doing these deals. So we got sponsored by like Solana and some of these big brands. And we would do like we would paint them a vision of how many leads we can bring them, what we can do for their business, how much value we could add for their business. And if you want and you care about it, I could send you the exact proposal that we would send these companies, but we had like a 95% close rate. And our average deals that we were closing were 300 to $500,000. Like sponsorship deals with like just these clients. And you know, I don't know what your numbers are. I don't know if you shared hypothetical numbers or those are real numbers. There's just hypothetical. hypothetical. Okay. I feel like with somebody of your podcast, like if you're doing longer term deals with the brands you really love, I think you can have like a six month long deal or your long deal that's like multi six figures. And I think that would be great. I think that's super useful. If you were going to charge me like 100k for like one hack or like one thing that people aren't doing that like applies to a lot of people that you've learned. My strong suit is more so on the product side of things. And so for me, the hack that I personally like what tell people is just learn as much as possible about your customer and talk to as many customers you possibly can. That's what I would say. I'm just like more simple simple side. A more advanced part that we have recently got into that's super big is as high the right people. And make sure you know who you're hiring and how you're hiring. Hiring is one of the biggest things that can either destroy your company or can actually succeed your company. And so we spent a lot of time hiring the wrong people. And we learned a lot from them and we learned how much time it takes us takes from us. And the thing is nobody actually ever teaches you how to hire properly. There's not like proper system. It's like hey do this. You know, make sure you ask these questions. There's a couple of people that we look up to and I can name a few. Maybe you can name a few because I'm kind of running blink on that. Keith or boys. One of those guys. He's from the PayPal mafia. But I think for example, recently we hired a developer who is an amazing developer. And he is ace. Yes. It took me six months to hire him. I found him initially on discord the most randomest way asking him a question. Hey, can you help us with this thing we had for multiplayer? He came in. He helped us out. And then I pitched in the idea, Hey, what do you think if we can work together? We worked together for a bit. But then afterwards he was like, no, I kind of just want to do my own thing. I was relentless. I did not stop and pursuing this guy. Every single week he would make content. I would be commenting on his content. I'll be reaching out to, Hey, how's it going? Every single week, every single month, I did not stop six months in. I was so sick. And I was like, dude, I am sick of this. I want this guy and my team. And I will do anything to get him on the team. I made a 45 minute video, hinting the vision of poppy. This is what we're going to do. This is what this is the best opportunity for you right now. And how are you going to grow as a result of it? And he said to me, dude, he's like, dude, I have never had anybody take this much time and effort to try and get me. He's like, he's like, I spent the whole day on that video rewatching that video and trying to think about what should I do? What would you say in that video, just the vision of the company or why we want you and how you fit into it? Yeah, I mean, pretty much all of it, which is, you know, here's why one, here's why you're being stupid when I being here. I just literally said that. Here's why I think we can be the next billion dollar company. And here's why I think you yourself can actually fit that into that vision because he is one of his big goals. I want to be like sticky jobs. I want to be able to talk about building a company. And it's like, dude, you don't have to be the CEO or the founder to be known well known about how it takes to actually build something. There's a lot of number two is number three is number four's, you know, think SpaceX, right? Think Facebook. A lot of them are also millionaires. A lot of them are also very well known and a lot of them also, you know, have built their those companies and are taking big initiatives there. So you can do the same thing. So I had to paint this picture of like, you know, half be the founder. You can just be the number two, number three, number four person and still get what you want. And that was the biggest things I painted for him. Any works with the company now? Yeah. Yeah. And in the last month of him working with us, we have done more development and more progress than we have done the last six to seven months. That's great advice. I do love about your guys as companies that I've met a couple people that have like great culture. I would say not that just the top of my mind like Patrick, but David's company has great culture. Andy Elliott's company has great culture and they're just very aligned with their founders and you guys are just good vibes. Like do you prioritize hiring people with good vibes? 100% down to the fact that nobody's allowed to use thumbs up or thumbs down emojis on our team. Unallowed. Like we literally will not work with those people. Everything is flame emojis and 100 emojis and we're very big on vibes because we've tried many times of not hiring the culture fit, but the skill match was there and every single time in one way or another it destroyed us. It recently destroyed us with just one sales guy that we hired and we knew the culture fit wasn't there, but we knew his skill level was very high. He came in. He made us like 80k to 100k cash. But two months later or three months later, we're still cleaning up a lot of the stuff that was left behind and almost all of the people that he closed have refunded. And every time we learned this lesson, but I don't know what it is. It's like we forget. It's like people who get drunk and hung over and every time they're like, I will never do this again because they're like throwing up and feeling horrible and then they forget and they do the same thing a week later. It's the same way we forget and we do it a week later. Hiring is the most important thing, but just with experience you develop the skill because you just constantly go through and you learn, but it never works out. So we prioritize fun and good vibes as energy is so important for us. If I want to get in the call with you, I want to be excited about it. And for excited about it, we're going to actually create some amazing ideas. As a result of that, we're probably going to create some great results. Well, can I take the product 10X? We're going to take the marketing 10X. Like a lot of these guys, for example, like had a partnership, Lance, Amanath, these guys were not had partnerships. We didn't hire them for skill. You know, Lance came from Target. Fucking Amanath was a fucking guy, a six years ago who lives in Sri Lanka wanted to become a coder. He was like begging to join us. Three Facebook challenge for 10 times. Exactly. And it's like these guys which has grew into these amazing people who they are today because of just how amazing the culture fit was because we we could travel with them. We love them. And then they fucking love us as a result. And we are on the same fucking mission. And I think that culture fit is what they call people who run through walls with you. And you won't have as many of those around you as possible. Like he will pay for a bunch of things and affiliates out of his own pocket. He will pay for VAs out of his own money before he even talks to the team. In what every single company that would be expected that we would pay for a bunch of those things. And he doesn't even ask us. Like that is what the right culture fit looks like. Where when we're not looking on our backs are turned. He's making the absolute best decisions for all of us in the entire company. Whereas the wrong fit is like, and these are like probably direct quotes. But that's not my problem on the sales team. That's a fulfillment teams problem. They need to fix it. This refund shouldn't be deducted from my commission. And then it's like a war between these two teams. Whereas he's if he was on the sales team, he would be like, oh no, like take my own commission even if the fulfillment fucked up and then he would work with the fulfillment team and solve that problem. Like, heart is so important. You know, even the question you asked about him, yes, I could tell you a million different things like he works on the product or he's good at the, like he, he figured out the affiliate thing and that makes us money and he figures out all these product problems. But above everything, he has this ability at his heart where he can run through the most impossible problems and run through walls. And that is the thing that you can't replace. Like, even if I had Sam Altman as my co-founder, he would perform better than Sam Altman on this team for Poppy. I like that a lot, especially the, you're able to anticipate needs better if you have like shared value and shared vision and you guys all want to grow in the same way. Because it'd be possible to find someone who can anticipate needs if they don't know where you're going. Business is fucking difficult. Yeah. And like, you're going to be in a lot of rut and you want people who can be in that rut with you no matter what. Like, I just like, just like how we're such crazy motherfuckers. I mean, we literally let go of one sales person on our team that was like managing the sales team recently because he was just like super serious. Like he was just very serious. And, and, and the culture just bleeds in, right? So like, I knew what his seriousness was going to do. And then I found proof of it. But at this point, I don't even want to wait for the proof. Like I just, on the first hunch, I want to like let go of the person. So like, you know, the proof was I was talking to one of my sales team members and he was like, oh, yeah, like when I was on one of my calls, he reviewed my sales call and he was like, why are you laughing here? Why are you like, you know, happy here? Like you should be more serious and have more authority. And I was like, I fucking knew I should have let this sales manager go. And now that as soon as I heard that from my sales team, he's like, he's literally sucking the life and joy out of them, you know? And I'm like, that's because Mo was like telling me, Mo was like, dude, you would have told me that that's awesome. Like I should be laughing and having fun. You know, Juliano Mutsam, really, whatever the fuck his name is. The reason why this guy's blowing up is because he's having fun. You know, if he was like miserable, his videos wouldn't blow up. Yeah, I think he's going to be huge. I've been trying to get him on the podcast. But I don't even know what we talk about. But I was just like, I like the vibe of whatever the fuck is going on here. What predictions do you guys have for AI in 2026? I was talking with Rachel today and I'm like, when is AI going to be available? But it like flosses your teeth for you because I'm like, I fucking hate doing this shit. Or shames you. Yeah, I think for you to come on. Like all those things, I'm like, I need that help. But outside of those things, I feel like physically I would be really nice, you know? I feel like we're not too far away from it. But just, you know, now I can clean, I can cook. She's like, hand all these things like go downstairs and pick up the package because the Uber Eats guy can follow fucking basic instructions and deliver it to my room. You would only know that if you use Uber Eats like me. And it's like a physical thing would be great. But yeah, if you have AI predictions, that would be my prediction. I mean, I personally love Teslas and I think looking at how Tesla Tesla is and with their Tesla bots and their autopilot system, it's like, I feel like most of the things that we do repetitive are just going to become automated. Like the fact that now it is, I can just press a button and then the car will just start driving and it will take me wherever I go and they will park me is absolutely to me. Like, how is this even possible? And then I can see how the Tesla bought that these guys are working on is going to become another thing that's going to come in where there will be literally someone with you in the house helping you clean, cook anything. And what's really cool about that is that that creates efficiency for you to do the stuff that you actually want to fucking do. Yes. So if you want to code, you can just code because everything else is taking care of. If you want to enjoy watching the movie because you just enjoy it, you can do that because everything else is taking care of. You know, have to waste any of your other time. I just can't wait till fitness is outsourced. On these favorite things left. I mean, yeah, I don't know how that's going to help in the bus. Do you guys think, yeah, it's going to kill us all? Personally, my answer is no. I think every time you get more technology, people always have this doomsday thing. And what technology at least evidently and historically has done has improved our lives. Like, could those things be used for bad? Yes, it could. Like, you could electrocute somebody and, you know, they do that. They're like electrocute people to death. Like that's a death sentence. But most of the times, it's not used for that. You know, it's used to light up this freaking podcast that we're doing. I think generally most people like, if you take a normal person by default, they're kind of driven to do good things. That's at least human nature. I feel like it's mostly do, especially I guess with laws or self-serving things. And self-serving things would be to do good things. And I just feel that as technology has gotten better, there's always fear that people are going to all like jobs are going to get thrown away. But then it's like when you got tractors, yes, a bunch of farmers lost their jobs, but then they got jobs to do the tractors. And I think the same thing is going to happen with AI. It's just going to make a lot of our lives better. I think there are going to be people who use it maliciously, but I think majority of the world is going to help ensure that they don't. And you're always going to have hackers trying to destroy things, but then you're also always going to have more people that are going to be trying to defeat the hackers. And I personally don't think it's going to destroy the world. Yeah, I mean, we have weapons. We have bombs. It's like, nobody fucking, it's like, we have all that stuff, but it's not like we're necessarily like using that this against us, right? It's sometimes. But yeah, I think it hasn't been the same way. I think there's going to be a way for us to protect it, protect us from it. And then there's going to be a way for us to actually use it in a good way. But we're all like, it's going to be so exciting. Like can you imagine, bro, you're going to live to be 150 years old. You're going to be 150, 200 years old. There's no fucking way you go out earlier than that. It's improving exponentially. It wasn't many years ago. Your great, great, great grandfather couldn't live past age of 30, right? It wasn't. It was just a few hundred years ago. In 1900s, people got up to 50s or 60s, like double their age. And then a 50 years or 100 years later in 2000s, people are 80, 900. I don't think 150s too far off. I think cancer pills are going to be like over the counter fucking things that you could just take. And I think a lot of those discoveries are going to be made with the eye. So I am so excited about the future. I wish I was born like now. Now. Like, oh my god, this is amazing. But like I think that this is going to be incredible. Our lives are going to be better. Like we're going to be so much more intelligent because we're probably getting neural links. The Elon Musk is making. And we're going to become Ironman. Yeah. And then you just like, like already are intelligence with the phone and AI is like so much higher. And then once we have a chip in our brains, like we order the glasses, like dude, this is so exciting. Like we will experience super human intelligence, like we'll literally be super heroes. And then our life spans will be so long. And you know, life is already so short and there's so much to do. But then the fact that you can just get 10 times more knowledge allows you to live 10 times amount of lives in my opinion. And then you also get to live longer because biologically, there will be so many breakthroughs and scientific studies and researches that help us unlock a much longer life span. So I'm like, dude, I'll take 10 years to become a chess grandmaster. Then I'll take another 10 to like build this company. Then another company for another like I'm so excited and hopeful about the future personally. Yeah, I'm personally unsure about it. I think all those are that all of us here live forever or AI kills us all. It's like one of those two flip of a coin. Two extremes. It is scary though. On the other hand, if AI does come after you, it is right because program correctly. Yeah, it could understand your fears. It could see the physiology of your body and notice that, oh, he's sweating when I do this type of traumatizing behavior and then like kill you in the most horrible ways. I mean, you're driving in your driving the car. Depending on the AI fully, imagine something just hacks into it. And they just like, rims you into the fucking the side of it. Bro, like think about this. We were all driving at night in our Tesla. It was like 1am. We had just come back from a movie. Last was in the car. Nause was in the car and we're driving back. And it's like pitch black. It's so hard to see where we're going. We're going through these like mountains, type of roads and canyons. And in the car, I asked his Tesla. I said, here are the people you have in the car. You have Lance. You have Nas. You have Casi. Now, these are the characters of the story. Tell us a horror story with these characters. And then she's like, Casi looks in the mirror and he sees somebody sitting next to Nas. And when he looks back, that person is not there. And Lance, you know, and then it just kept building it up, building it up, bro, as we're coming home, we're like so scared. It was scarier than the horror movie we watched and it was so much fun. We parked our car and we like listened to these horror stories about ourselves for like 20 minutes and it was so creepy. And it was awesome. And I'm like, dude, AI is so sick. That sounds really fun, actually. Until it makes it into a reality. It's like I'm remembering this. But what do you know about Khazi that he doesn't know about himself? Sometimes we can be very hard on ourselves in my different ways. I personally am very hard on myself in terms of how am I as a leader? How do I lead? And I questioned that all the time. And I think he's really good at telling me a lot of times. It's like, man, you're good at what you do. You're good at leadership. Whenever he sees me either, you know, how I am with the team and how people sometimes, you know, look up to the things that I do and the energy that I bring. And it's always very nice to hear that. And I think that's definitely one of the things that some just don't realize. And it's always good to have somebody else tell you that. Simple answer, but I think that's one of the biggest things that actually helps me a lot. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received? The first thing that comes to my mind is how much bad advice I've received. What's the worst piece of advice you've ever received? The worst piece of advice I've ever received is, I mean, it's not even that bad, but for me, it's bad. It's like, validate what you're doing with money. So like, if you can quickly sell something, that's a really good idea. And if you can't quickly sell it, then it's not a good idea. And this is just a very common consensus and a lot of the business culture and a lot of people to talk about this, you know, and for them it worked. Like for her mosey, the strategy worked, where when he did things that didn't make money and he stopped doing them, and then he did the thing where he turned around people's businesses, gym launch, and then did it through info product, and immediately it made a lot of money. For him, that was fantastic. And it worked. But for me, when I tried to follow that advice, it was, that was not working. Like, I created businesses that were just always stuck at a certain level. So Poppy was like this amazing thing that we created just by following our passions. And for me personally, another thing that just came to my mind is discipline is freedom. Consistency is the ultimate thing. For my personality type, it is like the worst thing. And I thought that if I don't live like Hormosi or David Goggins or Chris Williamson, like, I'm fucked. Like if I don't do this 5.30 AM thing and then do this other thing at 7 AM and 9 AM and we're routine to my day, like I'm screwed. You know, I would look at Nasal was and I'm like, man, this guy's just like the perfect human. You know, he's just like wakes up, sleeps at the right time, wakes up at the right time, goes to the gym at this time, it just does all the right things. But for me, that advice for my personality type was just awful because I always tried to be somebody who I wasn't like, I was trying to be Nasal and I just wasn't Nasal. And it was breaking the fundamental things that make me me. And what makes me me is like a lot of spontaneousness. I'll sleep a fucking 4 AM and wake up at 2 PM sometimes. I just alarm myself to come up with ideas. I try not to have a routine and then I still ended up doing the right things and it was during those days we ended up even coming up with the idea of Poppy because there was a lot of like random stimulus for me and that allowed me to kind of come up with some of these ideas. Just to close the loop on the first one, you'd said that like sell something to validate it was bad advice for you. Exactly, right? So if I went through this idea of validate by selling right away, it would have told me that Poppy sucks because we spent months trying to sell it to a big sample size and we got zero sales. I would have given up on Poppy long ago. I was supposed, according to those people and their standards, I was supposed to have given up on Poppy long ago. Both of us would have had. And I think that was really bad advice. I wish the advice I got was relentlessly chase your curiosity. And that's that's something I could say that my dad would say and my ex-girlfriend would say and they would just tell me like relentlessly chase that because it always made me feel irresponsible to relentlessly chase my curiosity. If it didn't make sense money wise or this wise, I would not chase it. And I think that I wish I would have gotten more of that advice to chase that relentlessly. Like we luckily had the skills to make money out of it. You know, if we didn't, then maybe we would have just been like freaking homeless, like working on this idea. Like that's also possible. But for me, just like the whole discipline thing and the whole like validated it with money, I think personally was not the right advice. Probably the worst advice from my personality type. It doesn't work for everyone. And if it doesn't work for you, then you should lean into the other thing. No, what's the best episode advice you've ever received? I would say my mom has always told me something which is I lived by which is either you do something you love and you make no money or you go do something that makes you a fuck to no money. There's no in the middle. So what you meant by that was when I was still younger and I was willing to take a bunch of risks, I was willing to do stuff that I love in which in my case was coding for absolutely zero money. In fact, I worked for a starter company for two years for free. Those two years set me up to who I am today as a result. And I'm super thankful for the advice because she never told me I want you to go to to like I want you to go to McDonald's to work to make money or I want you to go get this job, this internship at an enterprise company so you can make $20 a month. She told me, "Fall the thing where you feel like there is you will learn the most." And that's why I followed pretty much all of my life. And that's the reason why I am going today. That's the reason why I met him. And that's the reason why we have a company that's worth $100 million. That would be my advice. I love that. Well, everyone, these have been your guests, Nas and Cosy. This is the Jaguar podcast. I appreciate you guys coming off. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.