[music] This is Garden Talk on the Larry Meal or Show. I'm Jill Nadeau and our first guest today will talk about the benefits of working with plants. We'll also talk about building resilient, healthy, and environmentally beneficial landscapes. Joining us is Jacob Cluza. He is the UW Extension Horticulture Educator for Winnebago County. He specializes in emerging specialty crops, therapeutic horticulture, and climate smart landscaping. And besides talking about how gardening is good for you, you'll also answer your general gardening questions. So join in with your questions or comments. Why do you like to garden? How has it affected the way you live? Give us a call. 800-642-1234 or send an email to
[email protected]. Jacob, thank you so much for being with us today. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you. So Jacob was going to be in with us today, but you got a little snow, didn't you? I got a decent amount of snow. And where are you right now? So I'm out of Berlin, so just in the north of Greenland County. Okay. And you said about what, 8 inches or something? Yeah, and it's continuing to come down. So it originally came through the south and then rotated all the way back and hit us again. Oh, nice. Yeah, that's how it's a treat. But spring is on the way. You'll get here eventually. So Jacob, what got you interested in and what keeps you interested in horticulture? Well, I've always been interested in science as a kid. Astronomy of physical science, chemistry, stuff like that. And in high school, we had a small like FFA program that I was in for a little bit. We grew a little bit of plants. And so I realized I was really good at growing things. And then that leads into the next point is I really get a lot of benefit from the nurturing aspect of growing plants. I have lots of plants in my office right now. I think, you know, somewhere in the few hundreds of plants. So I walk in and it's just nice to see all of my babies doing very well. So I take a lot of satisfaction and pride in growing plants. That's not to be said. I don't kill a lot of plants as well. So it's more of a numbers game in my in my area. But and I've just translated that love of science into plants because plants usually it incorporates so many things. So I think it's a lot of science, water, you know, organic chemistry, environmental science. And it's one wholesale package. And then plants affect like the majority of our life. If you don't have plants, we don't have life. So that's what really keeps me interested in plants. Great. I know that one of your specialties is emerging crops. Why don't you tell us what that is? Well, so for my master's degree, I worked with cut flowers and it's part of I went to NDSU. We worked on a high value crops team. And so anything worth money that people have started to grow. So I've worked with grapes. We've worked with hops. We work with June berries, Saskatoon's. All these unique. Very specialty crops that wouldn't normally grow here. And then what we would do is we would test them out, evaluate properties and see, you know, give recommendations on what would grow throughout Wisconsin, Minnesota, and North Dakota. What is a Saskatoon? That's a new one on me. So a Saskatoon is another new name for a June berry. Oh, okay. But it originally was widely propagated in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. And then eventually moved its way down. So in Canada, it's just known as a Saskatoon. And here it's known as a June berry. So there's lots of different names for the same berries in different places. Oh, sure. And that happens a lot inorticulture for sure. That's why it's always nice to know the actual Latin names, right? Yeah. Ordecultureists are like wizards. We always speak in Latin. Yes. Well, that is something that I don't grab onto. So quickly, I love those common names. But what does the day of a UW Extension Horticulture educator look like? Well, my days are usually varied. But like this last week, we had the PBS Home in Garden show, Expo and Madison. So that was very different from a normal day. But a very normal day would be me getting into the office, checking emails, phone calls, listening to my horticulture questions, stuff like that, responding to those inquiries, and then preparing for education. So I usually have maybe one or two lessons per week on different things with different groups. Like I said, I specialize in like therapeutic, horticulture, climate change, and then food systems as well. So I give a lot of presentations on those types of programming. The last one I did was urban homesteading and seed starting. So get ready for those presentations. And then usually those presentations are later at the day. So I get a little break between those. And then teach. And so there's lots of work groups during the day to figure out like what programming we're doing, to apply ourselves at, and various other things. But it's a lot of answering questions, and then a lot of lesson prep, and then actually teaching. Sure. And I believe you're working on a landscapers, Expo, or something like that coming up? Yes, yes. On March 4th, we have the Wisconsin Landscape Contractors Association, with Extension, has the Landscape Professional Conference. And that teaches green industry professionals different skills. It goes over basic safety truck and trailer. And then there's different sectors where that can, you know, if you're in different areas of the green industry, to more cater to you. So we have a maintenance track. We have a landscaping track. And then we have a hard scapes track. And then you learn practical skills, like you will build a landscaping wall at our conference. You'll build a patio set. You'll learn to read plans. And so it just really helps landscapes professionals build and maintain those skills. And then if you have new employees who might not have as much skills, this is a great way to get them trained up for the season as well. We've had a lot of different companies. I think like 30 to 40 different companies sign up and send multiple employees. As well as municipalities, especially just learn the basics from a trusted resource. Now, is this just open to people who are a business organization or can someone who's maybe thinking about going into landscaping sign up? Yeah, this is open to everybody. There's no restrictions. If you're a home person who just wants to learn how to like professionally do your landscape, that would be great as well. We are open to municipalities, anybody who needs to learn how to read plans, cut grass effectively, identify weeds, best practices for spraying for diseases and insects. So it can translate all the way from the home, all the way up to a major corporation who just wants to make sure that they're landscaping crew and grounds keeping are, you know, in the best of knowledge. Sure. And how did people sign up for this? So they can go to either the UW Extension website for out of Gamae County and search. It'll come up there. Kristen Brico is the leader of this planning committee. And so it's just hosted on that part of the website. Or the Wisconsin Landscape Contractors Association has a link on their website. So, so WLCA.com or extension out of Gamae. Okay, great. And we'll add it to our website too, so people can go to WPR.org/Larry. And it'll be a link under this show. Once we have it up, which will be in a couple of hours. So we can do that too. - Excellent. That sounds like a really interesting hands-on type of event. Do you have a lot of people that attend? - Yep, so far I think we're up at 130 people, so about 170 total with all the teachers and the helpers. So we're up there. And it is a wonderful event with unique training. One of the highlights last year, is we had a live pruning demo. So we had multiple trees. They were able to work on those trees and receive live feedback from that. So that was one of our highlights. And so it's a very unique opportunity. - Definitely. I was surprised that I hadn't heard about it. So I was kind of excited to learn more about it, because it really is a good opportunity. So let's talk about those health benefits of working with plants. Is there science behind that? I am assuming there is. Yeah, yes, there's definitely the science behind working with plants. So I believe working with plants has multiple benefits. Spiritual, mental, physical, social, parosocial, and it affects so much of our lives. And so there's various research at various levels on how plants can affect our well-being, how plants can affect our health. Research studies done on how plants can purify our air. Lots of different studies. And most of the research is pretty well represented. There are newer stuff coming out here and there about the more beneficial effects of working with soil, working with microbes, being exposed to multiple types of situations to build your immune system. - Well, let's talk about the mental aspect of it. How does it help us mentally? - So I would say it definitely helps me mentally. Reduce stress. There was a day I had a very stressful day at work and I had a bunch of plants that needed to be pot up and I just stopped and was able to work in the soil. Take that time, breathe, be able to process emotions. So I would say working with plants can help reduce stress and anxiety. And then like I said mentioned, I have lots of plants in my office. So being able to go to a nice green lush area in the middle of winter, and be surrounded by life and vitality. I think that just boosts your mood as well. And then like for me, we're working with plants or just after working plants helps to improve my focus. I can work my rage out with weeding or build those fine motor functions and repotting things and just nurturing and growing plants really brightens my mood. And that really just leads into the other mental aspect of it builds purpose, right? The purpose is when we nurture things, we help them grow. And even though it's dead at winter and it's in snowing out, my plants are alive, my orchids are blooming, my cactuses are thriving, my succulents are wishing, you know, they were in Arizona but they're just in my office. So. - Well, it's probably pretty dry in there, although with all those plants, it's probably actually more moist than they're used to. - So I actually invested in a like a fairly heavy industrial humidifier for my office. And so I'm able to maintain my humidity right around 40, 45% even with the HVAC system going at full blast. And even that, some of my more tropical poems and bamboo and dressena, stuff like that are still very complaining. (laughing) My rubber plant really wishes, you know, it was an under forced air. - Sure. Well, one of the things that we probably don't think of too much about is that the social benefits of working with plants. Why don't you talk about that a little bit? - So just a little bit of history. I do lots of things. I do one thing called ripple effect mapping. And we just did a session the other night in Oshkosh about looking at community gardens. And so what are the effect of community gardens as it ripples out? And so one of the things that people brought into this session was how socially beneficial it is to gardening. Gardening is a very social aspect. Many people brought up the fact that they garden with their family or they bring people in to help with their garden. So to increase their social circle. And when they grew up, garden at community gardens, they meet new people with new ideas. We had lots of people discuss how they had met people who had grown very different things, asked them about it, shared ideas. And then other people expressed that, you know, the person next to him was a doctor and without the garden, they would have never met that person. And so plants can be a shared language between cultures, between people, social economic classes. And so that brings people together. And then the other thing about being social is like, there are many plant clubs, right? We all share that wonderful interest in plants that you can come together and do things that you love as a group. And then I do a little bit of work at Parkview Health Center, which is the County Rehabilitation Center. And we just do therapeutic things. We grow plants, I give presentations, but the social aspect of people in care homes, being able to interact with people outside of the community or outside of their little home and do things that make them happy. You can just see the happiness on their faces. And then they get to leave with plants, especially in a care home. So I would say that gardening has profound effects on being social and increasing your social wellbeing. Well, I think most of our listeners would agree with you, for sure. Joining us today is Jacob Clouza. What gardening questions are on your mind? Join in by calling 800-642-1234 or send an email to
[email protected]. And this is Garden Talk on the Larry Meal or Show. I'm Jill Nadeau. Stay with us 'cause in the last half hour of the show, we're gonna dig into rain gardens, which will be really fun. But right now we're talking to Jacob Clouza. And we are taking calls. Lines are kind of quiet today. So give us a call, 800-642-1234. I think Jacob is well versed to take your calls about outside and inside a plant. So please feel free to do that. So one of the other things that we wanted to talk to you about Jacob was the building resilience in our gardening, in our gardens, what does that mean to you? - So climate change and climate variation is a very hot button topic. And so climate resilience just means being able to withstand the variations in our environment. Right plants, right plant, right place is what it really means to me. If you have the right plant in the right place, it will be able to withstand the brutal snows in the middle of May, or the 80 degrees in February. And so building resilience definitely starts with right plant, right place. - Okay. And then also with climate change and all that, we really need to consider how that's gonna affect plants when we select them too, don't we? - Yes, so it's predicted as temperatures continue to grow that the USDA hardening it in the zones are gonna continue to move. And so back in the 80s, before I was born, fond lack the Winnebago Fox Valley counties where I come from used to be zone like 4A, 4B, almost 3B. And now they've moved up a whole zone, which is about a 10 degree difference in average temperatures here and there. And so you can now get away with growing, I've seen somebody in fond lack that has a Pontiac Actus is growing pretty well in their yard. And they've been doing well and have continued to do well with the variation. So the temperatures are moving, we're getting more milder, we're having a little bit longer, about one week to two weeks on average, longer frost dates. So that means that we can grow a few more things. However, with this change in weather, there's gonna be more insect pressure, more disease pressure, which means more problems for us. If these hard killing winters aren't as brutal, it means that those insects are now able to overwinter where they weren't before. With those strong southerly breezes and the Lannina and El Nino cycles means that there's lots of things blown up on the southern wind. And if there's a stronger dead stream cycle, that means that pests that usually don't get here for late August are now here a month earlier, just to do the variation. So it means a lot of things for gardeners and we have to prepare in different ways. - Okay, well let's go right to the phones. We've got a few people interested in asking a question. So let's go to Kathy and Madison next. Go right ahead. - Oh, hello, thanks for taking my call. I've enjoyed the show so far. This is a little off topic, but I grew three pads of narcissists this year, paper whites inside. And I let them go to seed hoping to possibly propagate them. And I wondered if you knew anything about that. - Ooh, that's an interesting question. What do you think, Jacob? - So I usually don't have very much experience growing daffodils indoors. I do have a little bit of experience forcing them, but I've never grown them by seed. If you just give me a minute, I know I have a resource here. I have the ball goers by just to see if anybody's, I personally haven't done it. So if you just give me a half second, I can pull up my resource and maybe find that answer for you. - Kathy, did you were these planted with bulbs? I'm assuming? - Yes, yes, little bulbs. - Sure. - Three or four? Well, two pots have three plants in them, and one has five, it was a little larger pot. - Okay. - And yeah, they have little black seeds. I mean, I could just plant them somewhere and see what happens. - Yeah, there might be a better way to do that though. So Jacob is googling, I guess. Any luck, Jacob? - Well, so like I said, I have the ball. The ball's a big bed book, which has basically how to force and propagate bulbs and anything you need. And so I have the online version of it. And so it does say that you can harvest and grow daffodils out from seed. You just really need to make sure that you harvest the pods when they're dry. And then there are a few things that they are going to need before they reset or would be able to break dormancy. They're going to need a cold period. So I would put them, I would sew them shallowly about a half inch into some trays and then put them out in your garage if you have one or a cool place. So they're going to need less than 45 degrees for about six to eight weeks to overcome that cold period. And then once they overcome that cold period, you can move them into somewhere warm and they will be able to sprout. So it is possible. It's going to take some patience. And then they will need a cold period before they will be able to germinate. OK, great. Well, good luck, Kathy. We want to hear if it works for you. OK. Let's see. Let's go to Karen in Hollandale. Go right ahead. Good morning, Jake. I live on 80 acres. And we spend a lot of time battling back invasive, many of which got into the landscape as escape domestic horticultural plants. So I'm interested in what you're going to be doing working with the landscape contractors to help them be more forward with native species and less inclined to recommend exotic species that don't belong in our state. So thank you so much for that question. So I'm actually teaching the weed and weed identification portion of the class at the Landscape Professionals Conference. So really diving into the NR 40 list, understanding what weeds are evasive and how to identify them as first and foremost are our issue. And not just the common weed lawns that you would see just as a urban resident. Some of those ones that do come in from the forest or make it their indisturbed sites. So understanding the NR 40 list. And then make practical recommendations. We always stress natives. Like I said before, right plant, right place. Natives have a place here. They've been here for at least 10,000 years since the last ice age, even longer in the driftless area. So they've been here. They're naturalized. They're acquainted with our ecosystem. They're able to handle our natural variants. And those native plants usually tend to be very deep rooted, very well adapted to our soils. So putting those in place. And then the other thing is we have natives, but we also have naturalized plants. So plants that have been here since colonization, they've done well. They've moved or they've had positive migration into us. So using those plants effectively as well. And then we usually go by the 75% rule. So at least 75% of your landscape could be converted to natives without any detriment to looks or, cost. So we really recommend using natives, identifying those evasives, being able to take care of them effectively. So that's one of the things we stress in the landscape conference. OK, thanks for the question, Karen. Let's go to Trevor in Madison. Go right ahead Trevor. Hi, thanks for taking my call. Hope everyone's enjoying their cool Friday for a change in the winter. But yeah, thanks for taking my call. And I do have a question about a Myer lemon tree that's about five years old that I've been growing in my sunroom. And I've got a stock that runs pretty much three quarters from, I don't know, there's one branch that shoots off. It doesn't really have any leaves on it. And then up to the top, it's like almost black for the last inch of it. And I don't know if I'm supposed to trim that or leave that. So there are a few other branches that kind of look similar where they don't have any leaves. And I can't tell if it's dead or should be pruned. And I just was wondering if I could get some advice on that. OK, so there are some quick and dirty tricks to figure out if a branch or is live. So first is the bending test. So if you're able to bend that branch and it doesn't snap or creak with moving to 90 degrees, usually a live, movable plant will be able to bend at least 90 degrees without any damage. So give them just the bend test, see if they're dry, just colored and if they break, they're obviously dead. And if they creak or crack anything less than not either dead. The other thing you can do is you can take your thumbnail and just peel up the bark a little bit. And so usually I just take a little scallop out of it and then look to see if there's any green under that bark. So that green is that cambium layer, that actively growing layer of the tree. And if you're not seeing any green, then it's definitely not alive. You can also pruning is very variable. You can always prune a little bit at a time. So don't be afraid to just take a few inches off at a time and then see if there's any growth or response to that pruning. OK, good luck Trevor. Thanks for the question. We're talking with Jacob Cluza. He's the UW Extension Horticulture Educator for Winnebago County. If you have a gardening question, we'd love to hear from you. 800, 642, 12345 or you can send an email to
[email protected]. And let's go to Ashkash. Hi Bob, what's your question? Hi, I have more of a comment than a question. I just heard the start of this show and I got really excited. Right now I'm working on a project. I work at Winnebago Mental Health Institute as a occupational therapy assistant. And I'm working in the past. We've done a plant sale every spring with the patient. And we get plants from a provider and we sell them to the staff and some of the community and things have changed with where we're getting them from. So now we have to grow them ourselves. So we're working on developing a plan to do that. And just this topic is so perfect for what we're doing. The therapy aspect of it and just developing community with the staff and the patients and therapy from nature and plants is something that is a huge part of my life. And it's awesome that I get to bring it to work. And hear about it on the radio. Well, that's wonderful, Bob. Jacob, you're kind of playing, you're saying exactly what you've been saying. Yeah. And Bob, if you ever want to reach out, my email is Clusa@
[email protected]. I would love to hear more about your program at the mental health. And then if you ever need any help or advice, that's what I'm here for, definitely in Winnebago as well. And so I've worked with a few other places. Like I said, the Parkview Health Center, they also do a small plant sale for the community. So I definitely participate in those. If you need any volunteers, I'm definitely here for you. And it's wonderful that I hear from like-minded people who value the personal and people aspect of horticulture. All right. Well, thank you very much, Bob, for sharing that. And that's got to be such a wonderful part of your job is being able to do that outreach with people, isn't it? Yeah. Working with-- I do a lot of youth education, because people's minds are very hard to change. We're very neuroplastic. So I like working with people who don't have any preformed ideas about what they can grow or how bad they are at growing and just are willing to try anything. So the look on kids' faces when they get a tree to plant for our birthday or the satisfaction of when I come back to the Parkview Health Center that all the plants that they've propagated are now massive and they're growing really well. Or just the learning opportunity for when we did the bold planting exercise and everything froze the week after. I'm tearing them all the mush. So I mean, there's positives and negatives, but I definitely enjoy sharing my passion for plants with other people and then having it resonate with them. Yes, definitely. Well, let's go to McFarland Leslie. What's your question? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I have these little knaps that we're flying around in my house. And I bought the Zivo things and they've gone down quite a bit, but I still have them even in the middle of the polar vortex. So I was wondering if they were associated with the plants that I helped and how what is a good way to get rid of them? So that's a kind of a hard topic. I would recommend first we got to figure out what type of net they are, but generally they're going to be any type of net is going to be very attracted to wet surfaces, fungus. So generally they are kind of associated with the plants, but they're more in the soil surrounding our plants. And so just as a general tip for me and a few other people, I like to have no standing water for about two days. So I can water my plant, let the water evaporate, but I don't want to have that there longer than two days. I also have heard reports of fungus nets being in people's HVAC system because they've had a leak in their HVAC system and it's caused some moisture to accumulate and then they push out the flies. There are also reports of fungus nets coming out of plumbing because again, those very moist areas. So I would get some yellow sticky cards, put them out in various areas, and then you're able to identify what type of net. If it's a fungus net, those are going to be again associated with moist areas. And then my recommendation on how to get rid of them is again, no standing water if you're watering your plants, maybe some subserviced watering with like a water vault if you're watering your house plants as well, just to keep that surface of the soil dry. And then just look out for any wet spots. There are some things you can spray, but I would look those up and do a little bit of research, which best works for you because that is an indoor type of setting. And you really need to be careful about spraying anything indoors. So yeah, thanks for the question, Leslie. And you can always contact PJ Lee Shover at the insect diagnostic clinic or lab, too, if you need to identify what you have. So he's with us every couple months or so. I think it's coming up in April, too. So thanks, Leslie. Let's see. Let's talk to Sam in Marshfield. Hi, Sam. Hi. I have a question about-- I have actually two questions. Can I also offer something about house nets? Sure. There's a product called Dr. Bonner's Liquid that is everything from cleaning your bathroom to any kind of cleaning. But they have a dilution that they say it's organic and that works for house nets, for nets on house plants. So I'd just like to offer that. I got mine at TJ Max, but I'm sure it's available other places. But it's like this wonder solution-- it's a dessert topping. It does everything. I mean, it's not a dessert topping. Don't do that. Do not eat it. But anyway, just don't offer that. But then I have a couple of questions. Here in Marshfield, we own a property that was a former botanical garden. And so I've been in the habit of-- a friend of mine helps me with our gardening. And we kind of made a pact that we're not going to buy any plants. So I go out to what's still surviving. And I bring stuff in and put it into places around the house. I'm interested in a ground cover. And out in the former garden-- former tentacrant, there's these-- it's a pack of Sandra that just seems to grow so well. There's also a lot of lanyum. And I don't think that is a negative-- or anyway, neither of those are native, I believe. I tried moving the lanyum, and it's just sort of taken over. And I got to get rid of it. But the pack of Sandra, I wondered if that's a good thing to bring for landscaping around the house. Secondly, where do we get a list of natives that will fit in the places that I have? Getting the right plant for the right place. OK, lots of questions there, Jacob. Yeah, yes. So I think I will start with ground covers. Lanyum is definitely-- Lanyum or dead nettle, I believe it's common name is. It's definitely not native to Wisconsin. And really works as a good ground cover in shady areas. Packie Sandra is also not native to Wisconsin, but I would consider it more naturalized since it isn't very evasive. And that's really good for shade and erosion control. If you're looking for native ground covers, that would still fill that partial shade. Wild ginger, so a serum canadensis, is a really good one. Virginia creeper. Some people consider it more evasive, but it is a native plant. It does do well if you're able to hold it back. And then there's baron strawberry. So I do not know it's Latin name off of my top of my head. Wall-- I think it's wall descentia, I think it is. So there's baron strawberries. And then you were looking for where to find native plant lists. So the DNR has a wonderful resource for native plant lists. The Wisconsin Horticulture website also has a plant list. And then there is a slightly older resource called picking landscape plants for Wisconsin gardens. And it is available on the Barron County website, because it's an older publication. That is a really good one. It covers all the native plants of Wisconsin. And then what their characteristics are, their form, their shape, their size, and then where they're best used. So that one would be a great recommendation as well. But the DNR, our Hort website, has plenty of plant lists. Native plant lists. You'll find lots of that stuff there. And then there is the PDF as well. OK. Did I miss any of the questions? I'm just wondering. I don't think so. Yeah, I think that was it. And then she just wanted to talk about that substance for NADS. Yep. So the substance for NADS is Dr. Bonner's liquid castile soap. And so that is known as a surfactant. And a surfactant is just like dawn. Decreases the surface tension. So that's not an insecticide or pesticide. And what it does is it works on aphids, or any soft-bodied insects. And so it's very similar to a horticultural soap. So yep, you can use that for NADS. I was just saying, if you wanted anything more than that, just consult a pesticide label or like that. But there are a few things that you can do like that with sprays to control NADS as well. OK. We are talking with Jacob Cluza. If you have gardening questions, just give us a call, 800-642-1234. Or you can send an email to
[email protected]. This is Garden Talk on Wisconsin Public Radio. I'm Jill Nadeau. Join us again on Monday. Larry's going to be back. Take a look at bees. Their social behavior and how beekeeping can help our communities. And then the weather guys are going to stop by. And they're going to talk about that fall spring we had last week. Share some winter stats and explain the information about the Paris Climate Agreement. But right now, we are gardening. And Jacob, we've got full lines. So let's go right back. Jake and Brussels, go right ahead with your question. Yes, Jacob. My question is this. I have a red maple. And my question is about pruning. But also, the tree is fairly close to the house. So how far do those roots stretch out? I'm just concerned about maybe having a problem with the roots trying to compete with my basement. And then the pruning, it's near a walkway. And I got a prune, so it's not sticking up so you have to duck your head. And there seems to be more rhyme or reason than in the old days where you just whack a branch off. And I do have suckers that are fairly big growing out of this tree. It's used to just shade the house to keep it cooler in the summer. So you had a few questions there. So I'll take them as I remember them. And hopefully I will get to all of them. So first and foremost, red maples, the roots are very shallow and wide. So if we look at the drip line of the maple, they will go about 1 1/2 times to 2 1/2 times that length out. And then red maples, they can also easily grow under walkways. So they will go under in the basement. So that is an issue. So if your red maple has about a 25 foot diameter, then it's going nearly 50 feet in root diameter. So hopefully that helps then. And then as for pruning, pruning red maples is definitely important. When you don't prune them, they do produce a lot of suckers like you said. So my recommendations for pruning is it's always best done in late winter to early spring, definitely before they leaf out. So now to about March, middle of March, would probably be your best. So remove any dead branches, things that are discolored or have any mold or lichens on them, remove those crossing branches or weak branches. But I would just encourage you to not remove more than 1/3 of the tree mass at a time. Pruning again is a very gradual process and you can do it over the years. Plus heavy pruning will definitely stimulate the tree to produce a lot of suckers because it'll think it's stressed. Those suckers are important to remove as well. Those are going to be weak wood that will compete with the tree for nutrients and water. So remove those suckers that grow from the base. Remove them all the way down to the soil line. You can kind of cut them below the soil level if you can, with a smaller type pruners. And then one thing to do is make sure you keep the mulch away from the base of the tree. That can definitely stimulate sucker growth as well. And so pruning can be a little bit daunting. We have a few guides at UW Extension. And then I would encourage you, if you have any more questions, you can either reach out to me or your county agent or your state agent to get more customized advice for pruning. But I hope that gives you enough to get started. OK, thank you for the questions, Jake. Next up, K in Madison, go right ahead. Hi, thanks for taking my question. Long story short, I'm in my 70s. I'm two thirds blind due to partly due to viral infections because of my broken nose. So LED lights are a killer for me. And so my interest is I'm thinking they might be a killer for plants also, also I have blue eyes, which is also bad. So is there any-- is there a-- given to you said, you had a lot of plants and doors and also even outdoor lights with that effect, also not just the plants, but the bees and things like that who might want to feed the plants. You know what I mean? So what I'm taking your question is, does external lights that aren't normally supposed to be on affectile plants grow or affect wildlife such as bees? And yes, that is true. I have a maple just outside of my house that's right next to a street lamp. And it stays green much longer into the winter than some of the other trees. And it tends to do a little bit better because it is consistent life. As for the effect on insects, birds, there has been a known impact. External lights affecting, obviously, nocturnal bugs who are attracted to those lights. But then affecting the circadian rhythms or the diurnal patterns of bugs that are daytime as well. So general recommendation, if you don't have to have a light on outside, please turn it off. Move a little bit more towards solar powered lights or lights that are motion activated. So they're not constantly producing light that doesn't need to. And if you are interested in attracting pollinators, one of the things that we recommend is to remove those external lights, like your porch light or that big light in the middle of the farm circle that don't need to be on unless they need to be. So external lights do affect plants. A little bit less sense, winter will obviously take them down, but they do affect insects as well. And what about LEDs inside the house? They're bothering her, but do they bother plants? So LEDs usually do not bother plants. If you have some plants that naturally go dormant during the winter, there are a few that native house plants that go a little bit dormant, that could disrupt your plants. But generally, the LED lights are usually going to help a plant grow, provide that extra little spectrum. And then I definitely understand being sensitive to LED lights. They can be extremely bright compared to incandescence and fluorescence. And so I would just encourage, you know, you could turn those down, shade those out, or maybe switch to something a little bit softer on the palette instead of those bright blue harsh LED lights. You know, so I definitely, I definitely understand that. - Okay, I'm Lee Ann in Madison. Your next go right ahead. - Hello, thank you for taking my call. My question is this, I recently become a smitten with the monkey pothole trees, but I haven't seen them here in Wisconsin. So I'm wondering, is it possible to grow them here? And if so, where can I get one? - So I must admit, I've never heard of a monkey pothole tree. So let me look it up. - I have heard of that one. It's growing as a house plant, right? Is that right, Lee Ann? - I've seen them growing outdoors. I was recently in Ireland and New Zealand, and I've seen them there, both in locations that get snow, but not necessarily as severe as our Wisconsin winters. And I've seen them grow as tall as 40 or 50 feet. - Okay, yep, so I found them now. So they also have another common name known as money tree as well, but I know them by their Latin name, Bacchuria, Aquatica. And basically you are right in temporal zones, such as Ireland, which have very mild winters. I think they're lowest temperature. I think if they were a zone, they'd be zone like five or six, but I think they have low temperatures about 30, 35 degrees. It is more of a house plant here. You can bring it out in the summer, but you're definitely going to not be able to overwinter it outside, even if protected, like if you were going to tip your roses over and protect them like that, I don't think they would do well over wintering as well. They're just not cold, hardy outdoors. - Okay, so Leon, you're going to have to make do with house plant. I'm afraid. Yeah, Kurt, in Columbia County, you are up next. Go right ahead. - Hi, thank you. Question about a large outdoor container, how to water it to make sure water gets to the bottom. I've seen online this idea, what does your guest think of? With the empty container, putting a tube down to the bottom, add a right angle to the bottom, punch holes in it. So fill the container with soil, and then you have access to watering the bottom of that container. What does your guest think about that? - Okay, that's a new one on me. Jacob. So that would be a valid form of watering. And so I think that watering would be just fine as long as that water is not sitting there, and you had either a water pump to push a certain amount of water in there. And so that is going to obviously encourage those roots to grow down into that water and be able to absorb. Soil capillary action will wick that up as well. So that would work as well. I would recommend, you know, good, like a good soaker hose is great for an outdoor container as well, or subsurface, you know, drip irrigation. But I would definitely check daily and hotter waters to make sure that the water isn't just sitting there and boiling. And then if you're also having issues with drainage, which is also common in large containers, you can put bottles, empty bottles to create voids, and that voids will help drain the water as well. So yeah, I think that's a wonderful idea. It's very valid. I would just encourage you to make sure that the water's not sitting there, or to make sure that the water is able to flow somehow. And then I'll provide more airation and just better benefits for a containerized plant. - Okay, thanks, Kurt. And I think we have time for one more comment. Go ahead, Don. He's in Fort Edkinson. - You're comment about Virginia Creeper as a ground cover. We purchased two acres of wooded land that had not been touched for 40 years. And the Virginia Creeper is so thick that it's impossible to walk through it without tripping. And it had grown up every single tree on the property. So it can take over. - Okay. Jacob shaking his head. (laughs) - Yep, so sometimes those factors that make it a good ground cover also, you know, when it gets loose, it does cause some problems. But I was taking it more as a urban setting, as a ground cover. And so just some helpful, you know, it can be very daunting to remove lots of Virginia Creeper. But, you know, cutting back those stems, removing, you know, those suckers. And then just defoliating them as much as you can will help you as best to usually take care of your Virginia Creeper problem. - Okay, thank you, Don. Yeah, that's just a word of caution to everybody. When you plant something you need to really know about it, right? - Yeah, so again, right plant, right place. And so again, I was taking that as an urban, you know, what would be a really good urban ground cover? So I, you know, like I said, I gave three of them, but Virginia Creeper, it works great. It's a ground cover. It covers it really well. But I mean, if you have trees, it will also grow up. So just know that, you know, everything has benefits and drawbacks. - That's right. - All right, well, we're gonna be back after the news and we'll be taking some more questions. So if you have any, give us a call, 800, 642, 123, 4, and you can always send an email,
[email protected]. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - This is Garden Talk on the Larry Miller Show. I'm Jill Najelle. We've been talking about the benefits of working with plants and how to build resilient, healthy, and environmentally beneficial landscapes. And of course, taking your gardening questions. Our guest is Jacob Clusa. And he specializes in emerging specialty crops. They're a putic horticulture and climate smart landscaping. He can basically answer all your general garden questions. So give us a call with yours, 800, 642, 123, 4, or send an email to
[email protected]. And let's get right back to the phone. We've got Dory in Madison with a comment. Go right ahead. Hi, I had a bad infestation of fungus nets and I did not have standing water on my plants. I feel guilty because I tend to slightly underwater my plants. I've discovered that what you need to do is put the silice through agensis on your plants, on the soil. And it's also called the Skido Dunk. You can buy it at a hardware store and then take those yellow sticky tabs and stick them directly in the soil of your plant pots. And I went from a bad infestation to having known within I'd say two months. Thank you. Okay, thank you, Dory. Yes, so there are products out there that are BT, Basilis Therengiancis. Basically, the fungus net will eat this bacteria and get the worst tummy ache of its life and die. But it's a specific Basilis Therengiancis is known as Israeli Enses or BTI. And so you'll see it from mosquitoes. You'll see it for a few other fungus nets as well. But if they are not in your soil or they are associated with a wet portion, then obviously applying it to the soil won't work. But yes, there is a BT that works against the larva of the fungus nets as well. Okay. Donna in Washburn, you are next. Go right ahead. Hi. I have a miniature rose that I've had for maybe 10 years. And I've been keeping it alive outside in the summertime, bringing it in in the winter. And it loses its leaves, all of them, from time to time. But it's down now to about two feet tall, but it's down now to one green stem I had. I'm sorry, yeah, I might on it that I treated with neem oil. And those are all gone. But now it's down to one green stem. So I'm wondering how I can keep it alive. OK. So if you have one green stem, I would definitely prioritize keeping that green stem alive as long as possible. But I would say cut back those dead stems. So there's not as much blocking and not as much competition. Obviously bright light on those stems. If you want to prune it back to a reasonable amount of length, I would recommend three to five of those growing nodes. And then I would watch for new growth in the spring. Roses are extremely hearty and extremely, I would say, vigorous. And they can come back from at least one node. So if you leave three to five on that green stem, you would have many vigorous points. Again, just make sure to cut off all that, the dead and rotting material, because that's going to negatively affect that rose. And then just watch for the new growth. And then again, pruning mites, with neem oil is definitely preferable. And they can cause leaf drop and die back, as well as some other issues. So that might be why you're down to that one stem. But I think it's more than reasonable for it to come back. And just give it a good pruning and see where it goes. OK, I've had a number of mini roses that I've planted, kept outside year wrong. In the spring, they look like they're dead. And then about a month or so later, they're sprouting up again. So there's always hope, Donna. That's a good luck. Next up, we have Deb in Nina. Go ahead, Deb. Good afternoon. I bought up an older house a couple of years ago. And the yard is basically a mix of dandelions, creeping Jenny, a little bit of clover in there. I'd like to start over with new grass and probably add about a 10 by 20 foot area of wildflowers. And I've been considering just bringing in a sidecutter, getting all that grass out of there, bringing in some new fresh garden soil. Is that the best way to go about it? Go ahead, Jacob. So best is very subjective, right? You know, there are ways we can spend a lot of money and do all these things and really make sure to take care of it. Like is that the best versus just getting it done with the least amount of minimal disruption to the site? So I would definitely say that using a sidecutter is a valid way to do it. It removes it very cleanly and relatively cheaply. There are other methods. I've seen what people do is they'll mow really, really low. Like lower than you would ever want to mow in real life. And that basically is going to kill a lot of the grasses. And then you can solarize that area with whatever you have cardboard boxes just prevent light from getting there. So that method, cheap and easy, mow, and then solarize. There's also the spray and pray method. I don't recommend this where you can spray glyphosate, kill everything back down to the ground and then replant. I know some people who, if you have more of a rural area, you're able to burn. So each way has its benefits and its positives. And it just goes what works for you. If you're able to get that sidecutter and just remove everything, then I would say yes, more power to you. There are some less intensive methods, solarization, cutting the grass down low, or non-selective herbicides. But again, it's up to you. But your solution is valid. OK, thanks, Deb. And let's go to some emails, Aaron emailed us and with a lot of questions, actually. But let's take one at a time. What is the earliest that you can start propagating trimmings from plants like dogwood, lylock, and bridal wreath? So all of those definitely go through a dormancy period. So I would say the best time to start propagating them is when they put out new green shoots. Those new vigorous shoots, three to five nodes long. So they were dogwood, lylock, and bridal wreath. Lylock, and then bridal wreath spyria, I believe, lylock and spyria. So each of them bloom or start to-- they produce green at different times. So the dogwood is probably going to be April to early May for following varieties. The lylock is probably going to be a little bit later, so generally mid to late May. And that spyria is probably going to be, again, earlier, April to May. And if it's a summer blooming spyria, June to July. So those would be the best time to take those cuttings and then start propagating those out. So make sure they're green, healthy growing, three to five nodes. Most of those, I would just dip in rooting hormone, and then just give some bottom heat to whatever your propagating media is. And that should help make sure that you have a decent amount of propagations that make it. OK, we're talking to Jacob Klutsch. Today he is the UW Extension Horticulture Educator for Winnebada Bego County. What questions do you have for him? We've got open lines, 800, 642, 1, 2, 3, 4. And of course, you can send an email to
[email protected]. He'll be with us for the next 15 minutes or so. And speaking of emails, let's go back to Aaron's list. He said that he's bought native pollinator seeds. His area is all repaired, are prepared. And he's just wondering if you sprinkle the seed on it, or do you have to work it into the soil? Or can you just cover it up with a little bit of straw or mulch? So all of those are valid. There's a thing called winter seeding or phrase seeding. And so basically, you would open seed them, throw them, spread them with the seed spreader, and then rely on all of the foliage to die above it and provide that good solid contact with the ground. So free seizing, you can just throw it out there, rely on the plants. If you are seeding in spring and there's not a lot of ground cover, I would lay some mulch. What I've actually experienced is myself where I put out native seed. And then the birds came and ate it all, like that was their sorgasbord. So if you are putting out a large amount of native seed in a non-covered area, then I would definitely cover it. You don't have to work them in very deeply, just maybe taking a light rake and then just making sure that soil seed contact is there. But I would say there are a few different methods. So it's all about the timing, when and how you're seeding. So it really just depends on what you have. OK. And can you do that now? Or should he be-- well, I don't know where he is. But there might be snow in the ground. Although you can do that, too, right? So on top of the snow. Yeah, you can sew right up on the top of the snow. But I would again be worried that those birds are going to have a field day with that. So just before this snow got out, you could have seeded. And then with the great contact above it would have helped as well. OK. All right. Let's go back to the phones. Dan in Nina has a question. Go ahead, Dan. Hi. Thanks. We have some box woods that were planted as part of some landscaping. A couple of them are along the front side of the house. But one is a little bit separate. And it's kind of between a small soil area between a walkway, the driveway, and the porch. And that one seems to struggle with more brown areas. I suspect that underneath there, some of the gravel and things that were related to the foundations that maybe there's not as much soil as the others sit in. Is it possible to, you know, instead of struggling along, can I just make it smaller? I'm sorry. Go ahead. We'll stay green. Small plant that will stay green, rather than a bigger plant that has brown areas. Ooh. That's a tricky question, Dan. Go ahead, Jacob. So box woods from my experience are very prone to winter injury. And so you said it's between a walkway, the porch, and the driveway. So to me, that seems like it's very exposed. And so then they tend to get that winter injury, and then they tend to brown up. The other thing is, is they're very sensitive to salt damage as well. So if you're salting your road, your driveway, that can get on there and cause some issues as well. So my recommendation is just to make sure that, you know, going forward, you can kind of protect it. So, you know, applying a thick layer of mulch around there, not using rock mulch. White rock mulch reflects a lot of sunlight, and therefore warming up everything above it. So a nice organic dark mulch that absorbs heat. And then consider burlaping. I know a few people that burlap, their box woods, they burlap, their, their evergreens, just to protect them from that heavy Wisconsin winds. And then a good fall fertilization will help. And then the other thing is, you know, right plant, right place. There are some more cold hearty or winter hearty varieties, such as like green velvet or winter gem, that do a little bit better in exposed spots. So I'm not sure which cultivars you have. If you have those, then I would maybe just recommend a little bit more protection. And then to answer the question is, yeah, you can keep your plant greener. You can, you know, I've never seen a bush beat a head strimmer. So feel free to keep it whatever size you want. And I would say, you know, the smaller the tree, the more compact it is, the more thermally, I would say resistant it can be. But also, you know, a big healthy tree will be vigorous and much more able to handle any of the changing climate. So I mean, there's nothing wrong with keeping it smaller, but you know, the bigger the plant, I would say, the more healthier it's going to be. And you know, right plant, right place. - Okay, thank you, Dan. We've got some more emails. Lisa wants to know or says that she has a black eyed Susan in her garden that's got not of control. She would have surprised. Can it be dug up to replant? And would any plant society find a good home for it? - So black eyed Susan's obviously in an aster family, they do get a little bit out of hand. You know, the sylphium, the cup plants get very big as well. So that's not out of character. You can dig them up, you can divide them, you can, you know, easily transport them and move them. They're not as picky as some of our native orchids where if you even look sideways, they will not regrow. So these are extremely resilient plants. So feel free to dig them up. As for plant societies, I am not sure. But if you absolutely positively needed a home for your black eyed Susan's, you can email me. I will take them off your hand. 'Cause they are a wonderful pollinator plant and they are native and so they have their benefits and I'm sure I could find a home for them. - I'm sure you can. And people listening probably feel the same way. Thanks Lisa. Bob emailed us. He would like to plant a year-round evergreen screen between their house and the neighbors. He wants something that grows fast. It would be in partial sun, mainly from noon until the end of the day. They live in cross planes and he would like something small enough for him to plant himself. - Those are a lot of requirements. Let me just go over that. In every green screen, so obviously he wants a year-round protection. You want it to grow fast. So obviously you have that protection a little bit earlier than normal. But small enough that you can plant yourself. So I have a few ideas, but I'm gonna just pull up my guide to the landscaping. It's called a guide selecting landscape plans. And I'm just gonna scroll down and see if I can't find a few things that will work for you. So generally I don't recommend our Bavidy. Our Bavidy just along with boxwoods tend to be very winter injury sensitive. So there's a few upright juniper cold bars that I think would really fit the bill. So juniper's come in many different sizes, form shapes and textures. We have those low growing spreading types. But then there's ones that tend to be more upright and have 45 degree angles on them. And a few of those cold bars are like blue arrow and skyrocket. So they're narrow, they grow fast. They get about eight to 12 feet. And then they definitely tolerate partial sun. And then there's American Holly. I have one of them in my front yard. It is extremely fast growing. It's not evergreen, but it will provide enough shade and cover to still provide some privacy. And then there's Cypress. It's slower growing, but it is partial sun. So finding all of those categories in a good compact form is hard. You might have to make some compromises here and there. But I think a good juniper, a Cypress or an American Holly will grow fast enough and provide enough shade for you and decent amount of your requirements. - Okay. So this is a different one. Amarcy emailed. She gave her elderly mother long stem pink roses for Valentine's Day. And when she visited yesterday, four of the stems had very healthy shoots with leaves. No roots, of course, but she's hoping that she will be able to get them to grow into a rose bush. She purchased root stimulator thinking that she might need it. What do you think about that? - Yeah. So I've definitely seen roots produce shoots, but I've never, again, I'm not the horticulture, be all say all. I've just never experienced anybody being able to root them out. I could get back to you about that, but I'm not, personally, I have no experience with that. I would think, I would think long stem roses as long as you remove that any of the woody dyeing tissue with a nice clean cut. You know, use that rooting hormone plant them and again, in warm soil that has bottom heat, you would have a decent chance to have that. So I'm not saying it's not possible, but you know, your best way to do it would be that. But I haven't seen it. - Yeah, that's a different way to do that, but there's a lot of rose societies around the state. So maybe you could contact somebody there, they might have tried that. So good luck, Marcy. Barbara called but couldn't stay with us, wanting to know how do you get rid of snow on the mountains, slash goat weed, slash bishop weed. It's very invasive. Oh yes, it is. Please don't plant any if you haven't already. It could be nasty. - So I would say it is the same way we get rid of any of the other common invasive weaves that are really don't react to pesticides. So one, you're gonna focus on manual removal. I understand if it's a big plot that might not be physically possible, but dig up the roots carefully, those small pieces will left behind, will re-root. And then repeat often. So I find goat, bishop weed spread so much, we manually remove it as much as you can, cut it back, cut it back, cut it back. The other thing is is like once you have cut it back, you can smother it. So that's solarization technique. So covering it with heavy mulch, cardboard or landscaping fabric for a whole season will definitely help kill that and make sure it doesn't go back. And then last but not least, I would say last, like our last resort is obviously herbicides, right? You can use a broad spectrum herbicide, such as glyphosate, you know, put it on the leaves in the early spring and then as they come back in early summer, hit them again and then make sure it doesn't go to flower. So again, you know, as much mechanical removal as possible, smothering and then just make sure it doesn't go to flower. And then last resort, if it's big, if it's whatever, then, you know, you could use herbicides. But again, last resort. So definitely. Okay. So within the last couple of minutes, why don't you tell us again about the landscapers convention that you've got coming up, some dates and et cetera? - Yeah, so I'd be happy to. So we have our Landscapes Professional Conference. It's on March 4th. It's at the Sunnyview Expo Center. So we are part of the Fox Valley chapter of the Wisconsin Landscape Contractors Association, the WLCA. There is a Milwaukee one that is offered a little bit later. So if you can't make our March 4th date, I'm not particularly sure. I can look up when the Milwaukee date is, but or if you're in that area. And again, what it does is it teaches landscape skills to landscape professionals, whether old or new. We have three tracks. We have landscaping, maintenance and hardscapes where you literally learn interactive skills hands on a forum. So it's a wonderful opportunity for anybody from a homeowner to a landscaper, to a maintenance ground keeper, parks and rec department. If you just want to bone up on your landscaping skills or just want to become current, this is a wonderful place to do that. OK, and you can, I think you probably Google it and you'll be able to get to it. Because I'm assuming you have to register. Yes, yes. OK, all right. Well, we have been talking with Jacob Clusa. And Jacob, it's really been a pleasure getting to know you. And I'm sure we'll invite you back again. Thank you. It was wonderful to be here in Time Flies when you talk about plants. Isn't that the truth? We find that happens every Friday and Saturday morning. So thanks again for being with us. I'm Joan the Joe and stay with us because we're going to be talking about rain gardens. We'll be back in just a bit. [MUSIC PLAYING] There is a growing national trend by municipalities and homeowners alike to use rain gardens to help relieve flooding and pollution and all kinds of good things. And today on Garden Talk, we'll tell you how to add one to your landscape. I'm Joan the Joe and this is the Larry Mueller show. Our guest is Ruth Boy. She has an academic background in environmental science and works as a permaculture consultant focused on practical, sustainable landscape solution. She's a certified rainwater harvesting professional. And yes, we'll ask you what that means. And together with her husband and engineer, designs and installs rain gardens throughout the county with habitat, holistic systems. What would you like to know about making a rain garden? Do you have a rain garden? How has it helped with runoff? Well, we'd like to hear from you. So join in by calling 800-642-1234. Or you can send an email and that's
[email protected]. Or, grew thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. So I ran into your booth at the Garden Expo last weekend. I'm like, this is something we need to talk about. So we're really glad that you're able to join us so quickly. That's great. Thank you so much. You bet. It was a fun show. Yes, it was. So tell us a little bit about your background. How did you get involved in environmental science and specifically permaculture? Well, permaculture. I've always had a little bit of a background in finding out how things work, especially when it comes to gardens or our natural resources. Where are they going? What's happening? It's been a curiosity that I've had since I was a kid. COVID-- when COVID happened during COVID, I had a little shift in careers. And I started investigating a little more about how to grow plants in a way that would benefit the environment a little more. And that's how I started researching about permaculture. That led me to Costa Rica, which is where I did my permaculture design certificate. But I still had a lot of questions because Costa Rica is a tropical country. Very much so. You can throw a seed out, and it'll grow easily. So I had a lot of doubts and questions. My trip led me to Montana. And I helped design and build a sustainable home out there in Montana. And during the build, a big fire burned through the landscape and took out all the native vegetation, the trees, the plants, everything was gone, everything was barren. And Montana has a complicated landscape. In certain areas. And this was the high altitude desert. So hard to grow stuff out there. Very cold, very windy. And that's when I decided I wonder if permaculture can actually work. I'm going to try and put what I have learned to practice out here. And so the first step in permaculture is planting water, is finding out how to get that water in the ground, and where it comes from, and the sources that will make the plants grow. So the first step that we did out there in Montana in this barren land was plant the water. And that's when I first experienced the actual benefits of permaculture. Because we started planting in the berms and the swells, and the water started coming a season later, everything where the berms were, where the swells were, was thriving. And so it was living proof of what I had learned. And it was practiced in a land that you would think would probably not grow anything. And it was beautiful. Beautiful to watch all the plants come back so quickly by just planting that water. Yeah, that's amazing. And I love how you say planting water. I've never heard that phrase before. How do you plant water? Well, just like you do a plant, you plant a plant. You create a little hole for the plant to go in. Well, you want to put water where that hole is. So we dig, you dig a hole, you dig a trench, a swell. And that's where the water will naturally flow if you're getting the rain. It's going to fall in those swells. So planting is kind of a term that we play around with, because it's like you're creating that hole when-- Sure. --just like you do with plants. Absolutely. Now, you are a certified rainwater harvesting professional. So what are the requirements for that certification? So the watershed management in Tucson has a certification where they take you through different steps of a homeowner, the water cycle in a homeowner's house. And they show you what steps you can take to create a cycle that's more beneficial, where you're not just wasting water. Sometimes we think water is magic. We open up the faucet, and there it is. There's water. So they start from the part of, where is your watershed? Where is your local watershed? What is the closest watershed you have to you? And then where is your water going after? You use it. You use it from flushing the toilet to using it for laundry. They're putting it back. And they're saying, what is going to happen once it goes back into the system? Is it going to go back clean? Is it going to just be wasted? And Tucson-- Tucson has a big problem with water. So this is a place where they have really developed some good strategies for harvesting water, for recycling water, and for creating sustainable solutions for homeowners. So that kind of leads to your business, right? I mean, that's kind of what you do. So tell us about habitat holistic systems. So habitat holistic systems. This is a combined effort between my husband and myself. He is an engineer. He has all the calculations. He does all the mathematical parts of the systems that we install. So we think of systems as different parts that function together to perform a service. And it can be from your body. Your body has all these parts that make up your body to work together and function in a way. Same thing with a house. A house has different parts that work together to function from the water system, to the electric system, to even the garden system. So we called it habitat holistic systems because of all these systems that we work on, which is from your garden, and electricity and water. We create solutions that are a little more sustainable for the environment. And I thought that was a great marriage of both of your talents. And how long have you been doing this? This is our third year as a business. OK. And it's been doing well? Yes. Excellent. There's more interest. I think there's always a-- I think you take a step back to then take a big giant leap forward. True. You have to reassess all the time. Yeah. All the time. So this brings us to rain gardens, which is what we're here to talk about. I think many people are familiar with what a rain garden is. But for those, maybe you've just have heard the term not really sure what that means. Once you explain what a rain garden is. OK. Well, you know what happens after there's a nice big heavy rainfall in your property. Have you noticed what happens in the driveway? There's all that water flowing as if it were a river. Oh, yeah. Well, eventually that water goes to the gutter, picking up all the pollutants on the way from fertilizers to pet litter, anything that's on your driveway, untreated. And then after that, it goes into our beautiful lakes, creating all kinds of chaos. Right now, there's a lot of algae bloom in the lakes, unfortunately. And all this runoff is causing so many issues in the beautiful lakes. So what does a garden do? A rain garden do will infiltrate the water. Catch the water before it hits that rain gutter, and it'll infiltrate it, filter it, and then refill the natural aquifers and preventing it from getting to our lakes. So basically, it's going to be soaked up in this grasses, and plants, and soils, and not go to the gutters. That's right. That's the main thing. Yes. It has a shallow depression to it. So it's got about six to eight inches depression in the garden so that it will collect the water. And you're planting some nice native plants in there. Native plants tend to have a long taproot. And this creates an easy infiltration into the garden. So we know that keeping the water out or the runoff out of our gutters, which leads to our lakes and whatnot is a good for the environment. Why is it good for the homeowner besides the greater good? Yeah. Well, especially the homeowners here. And the greater lakes region, I think, we're all people that love water, love our lakes. And so we're doing our own part, taking a small step to keep those lakes clean by installing these rain gardens. Another benefit that it provides is if you're planting those native plants, you're bringing in pollinators that are beneficial. So if you have a veggie garden, then it'll benefit your veggie garden. You're bringing those pollinators in. If it also adds beauty and interest to your landscape, you can do so many things with rain gardens. There's different ways of planting them from just putting in grasses to putting in all sorts of different flowers and creating different palettes. And we are talking about rain gardens today with our guest Ruth Boy. She's a certified rainwater harvesting professional with habitat holistic systems. What questions do you have about creating a rain garden in your landscape? Give us a call, 800-642-1234. I'm Jill Nato. Join us again next week. Diana Althwith is going to be with us. And she'll be taking your gardening questions. And I think we'll ask her about starting seeds because it's getting to be that time. But right now, we are talking about rain gardens. So Ruth, let's get to the basics here. I'm a homeowner. I've got this spot that gets wet when it rains and it's whatever. How do I know how big to make it? And how do I know where the right spot is? What do you do when someone calls you in? Yeah, that's a great question. So I think the first step-- the first step that you have to take is finding out if you're allowed to place one. Oh, really? Different neighborhoods have different codes, different regulations. They vary. So first finding out if that's allowed. Next step I would take is to call. Who are you going to call? That goes busters. The diggers hotline just to make sure that everything is safe. You don't want to hit any electric lines or anything underneath. And once you have those two steps cleared, then the next step would be calculating-- making a small calculation to find out how much water comes off of your ceiling. So it's really interesting. You can get up to 650 gallons of water from 1,000 square foot roof. So you're getting a lot of water. There's small calculations you can make to find out the sizing. One would be the area, the volume and area of your roof. So you would measure first the width and the length. And then you would multiply that by 0.623. 0.623. That's right. This is the volume. This is the volume. And then you would get the size of the rain garden that you can make. OK. If you anywhere from three feet to a lot bigger, you can work with the land and your property to-- there's really no mistake in making it bigger. If you make it bigger, you're OK. And there is a rule of thumb. You want to at least put it 10 feet away from your building or from your neighbors. Now, what about a bigger yard or people are out in the country? There's going to be not necessarily a runoff from your home, but just a low area in your landscape. So is it similar to what you would do to create? Yeah. If you have a bigger land to work with, you can also use the bigger brother of a rain garden is a bioreattention cell. So you can make a bigger basin and plant in that. OK. So once you find out how big it is, what do you do next? The next step would then be to dig out at least six to eight inches of soil. So if you have lawn, if you're working with lawn first, you want to pull the lawn out. I usually separate that because there's good top soil we can reuse for planting after. So we'll take out the grass, make sure all those roots are out, and then dig a little deeper six to eight inches down, and then start the planting. OK. Do you have to put anything in there like gravel or-- No, it's actually-- well, there is engineered gardens where you make them a little deeper. If you're wanting to collect more water, rain gardens can be from very, very simple to a little more complex depending on what the purpose of the homeowner is. Is this something the homeowner should be trying to do themselves? Or-- Yes. If you can dig, you can make a rain garden. There's no liners, no pumps, no complicated situations when it comes to a rain garden. It really is just a shallow depression. When you're making that depression, that water is going to collect. You're going to divert your downspout, or if it's already on a slope, maybe you're just using the water that collects in the-- or flows through the lands to collect in the rain garden. But if you want to divert the water from the roof, and that's preferably what we're wanting to do, we're wanting to get that water from an impermeable surface and bring it into the rain garden, you'll divert it to the rain garden. A lot of people get creative with this. They can make little dry beds, like little rivers that flow into the rain garden, or you can just use piping. OK. We've got a phone call. Deborah in Racine, go right ahead with your question. Hi. So I bought and moved into a house about five years ago, and it has-- had and has an established rain garden on the corner. And I was very excited. I never knew about it. I was very excited about it. And I still am excited about it. The problem is that whoever planted it, put in what I know now is prairie cord grass. So it is very tall and it is very deep rooted, and it is taking over the rain garden. So-- and I am in the middle of an urban environment, so I cannot burn. But how do I control that grass from taking over the whole area? Yes. This is a great question. Actually, a lot of people think that if they install a rain garden, that it's going to be hands off, no maintenance garden. Well, anything that we have made as humans requires maintenance. And I experienced that in my garden, too. There are plants that will grow more aggressively than others. And you do have to manage it. You have to start planting and other plants to start competing with the plants that are a little more aggressive. So what I would do in your case, I would be a little-- or before you get into that growing season, when you start to see that grass is starting to wake up from the winter, you want to plant in some other plants that you would like to see in the rain garden. So they start to compete with this grass. You will have to probably dig out some roots. But if you get bigger plants that get established before that grass can start getting the water, getting the sun shine in, you could probably have better competition when it comes to the-- yeah, to managing this grass. That can be a little more aggressive. So I have that with golden rod. It can be a fast grower, and it can take over the rain garden. So I have to manage it. I have to plant in some other-- get some other plants in there before it gets really big. And that will compete nicely with golden rod. OK, well, good luck, Deborah. And normally, we would say, well, if you want to get rid of the weeds, you might not put mulch on it, whatever. Can you do that in a rain garden? Yes, absolutely. You can put mulch. During the first year, it would be important to put mulch, especially if you're just putting in little plugs. You don't want to leave that soil barren. So putting in mulch helps to protect the soil and to build the soil in the rain garden. I love living mulches, so you would want to maybe put in a few ground covers. And maybe by the second or third year, you already have some nice green mulch covering the rain garden. Well, that makes sense. And a listener called, but couldn't stay with us. And they said that the dominant source of runoff is agriculture and construction. So rain gardens are great, but they don't address the largest contributor to lake pollution, which are these agriculture and construction. What could be done to affect change on a larger scale beyond a personal rain garden? That's a little outside of what we're on. Talk about, but-- Yeah, definitely. There is storm management professionals that handle bigger projects when it comes to parking lots or buildings projects that are bigger that create the storm basins, which kind of mimic the same thing that a rain garden does, infiltrates the water. And they're not experimenting with new methods to filter out PFAs, which are non-biodegradable substances that remain in the water. I'm always on the lookout for these new ideas and new techniques that they're using to filter out these pollutants. But yes, totally agree. There's so much we can do. But homeowners can take this small step. And if can you imagine if one out of every five homeowners puts in a rain garden, the impact we can have on cleaning up our waters is going to be huge. Definitely. So just taking small steps. A lot of people. There you go. There you go. OK, so let's talk about plants. All right? Now there's different environments. So let's just talk about a nice, sunny spot to put a rain garden. What are some of your favorite plants to use? OK, that's a great question. Now this is a hard one because I love so many different plants. Yeah, we're all the same vote. But if you have already identified where you want to place your rain garden, then if it has enough sun or if it's shade, it really depends on where you're placing it. You can really play around with the pellet. One of some of my favorite are definitely sedges and grasses. I really like working with grasses. And any plant that's in the carrots family is definitely going to be on my list. Some I can name out of the top of my head is Pennsylvania grass, rosy grass. Of course, a crowd favorite is the purple combed flower, a kinesia. You have-- let's see-- butterfly weed. I really love butterfly weed. I love the seed buds that come in the fall. And the rain garden has so many textures when it comes to the different seasons. You can also play with that. And if you're wanting to bring in different sizes of seed pods in the fall, then you can also change up the plants. I love the sedges because once winter hits, you think winter is probably the most boring time for the garden. But rain gardens, if you're putting in those sedges and those textures, it actually becomes a beautiful winter landscape. Absolutely. We're big fans here of not cleaning up the garden in the fall. Because it does. It just looks so much more interesting. So when it comes to the design itself, when we design a bed, we have a higher plants in the back and lower in the front. What do you do with a rain garden? Depends where you're putting it. If it's in the front lawn, then you're getting a view from the people walking on the sidewalk. So you want to maybe put the taller plants towards the side of the house. And so you're getting a full view of the dimensions of the plants when you're walking by it. So I think what we like to look at is, where is it going to be observed from? If you're putting those really tall grasses in the front, it looks like a wild crazy garden. But if you're really working with the visual aspect, then you can really organize the plants to where you're seeing a nice organization of plants. Now planting in groups is really important as well when you're working with natives, because it gives it that tidy look. And you can identify weeds easily, because weeds won't grow in bunches. That's true. That's a really good point. Although there's all the weeds that look like your plants. That's right. That's right. I've noticed that a lot. It's like, but that looks just like, no, it's not. It's a good one. Now, what about for shady areas? Do you have some plants that you like to use there? Yes, there is. There is plants. American Ginger is a great plant. You can put in a shady rain garden. So there is also lobelia, likes to keep it. A lot of people think that you can only use plants that like to have wet feet. But actually the rain garden needs plants that can tolerate wet conditions as well as dry conditions. So you need resilient plants. And these tend to be natives. You don't only have to plant natives, but they're the plants that are going to benefit the most and make it easier. And you're great. Yeah, because the whole point of the rain garden is that it doesn't stay wet. That's right. Yeah, that's right. It's a perfect-- That's right. It's a perfect-- Infiltrate, which is an important point when you're deciding where to place it. You don't want to put it anywhere where you're seeing the water is not going down. If it's not infiltrating, that's not the place you want to put it. There's a little test you can do. You can dig out a hole about six inches deep and put it up with water. If the water hasn't gone down within six hours, then within 24 hours, then it's not the spot that you want to put a rain garden in. If it's gone by six hours, it's perfect conditions. OK, well, that's good to know, because even though it would seem like it's a good spot, not necessarily be a good spot. Right, right. Now, what about-- earlier you had mentioned about driveways. Is that going to stop it-- I mean, a rain garden is going to stop it from the roof. But what about other areas? You can-- You can landscape. Definitely. It depends on the slope. If you have a nice little slope in your area, you want to direct the water to the rain garden. You can use a dry bed, kind of a river bed, to direct the water to the rain garden. There is different ways you can divert water, definitely, to the rain garden. OK. Well, we've run out of time, basically. So thank you so much for coming in. And I will have you back, because I'm think people are going to have more questions about it. So go out and experiment. And then we'll have Ruth back. And then you can ask her questions. Rainboy is a certified rainwater harvesting professional with habitat holistic systems. Just want to give a shout out to our team here. We've got Claire Niper, Joel Patenod, Lee Rayburn, and Jeff Robbins. And of course, Larry Mealer. I'm Jill Najoe, executive producer. Make sure you tune in on Monday, because we're going to talk about bees and how they help pollinators to pollinate and help communities. And then the weather guys are going to come in. So we can talk to them about if our spring's going to come back real quick, or if we're going to be stuck in this winter, winter, what's the word I'm looking for? Just winter. OK. Well, thanks. I'm Jill Najoe and the Salary Mealer Show. Have a great weekend. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING]
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