The Year of the G's: Sean Duffy on GLPs, GPTs, and Chronic Care's Inflection Point

[MUSIC] Welcome to Claims Denied. One man's quest to learn everything there is to know about the business of healthcare. I'm Blake Matten, your host and creator of Hospitality, a healthcare newsletter and ecosystem discussing the latest in the business of healthcare transformation. Each week on Claims Denied, I sit down with healthcare leaders and peers to talk shop about emerging trends in health system strategy, health tech startups changing the game, and scalding hot takes on the future of the industry. 100 million Americans lack access to primary care. Patients feel lost on the system and clinicians feel buried by it. Tom is an AI platform that powers primary care as a service. See the difference that makes at lumeris.com/platform. Welcome back to Claims Denied, a hospitality podcast talking about the business of healthcare and healthcare transformation. Super excited to be joined by Sean Duffy today, CEO and co-founder of Omoda Health. Sean, thanks so much for being on the podcast. How's it feel to be on the hospitality podcast? Dreams do come true. Always a pleasure to hang out with you Blake and excited for the conversation. Yeah, I know you've been asking just for years and years when we're not with people. It's like the one missing thing on my resume. Yeah, I really need another healthcare podcast. So, I think it does. Would you would hospitality hosting it? It does. You flatter me. You flatter me. All right, enough about me. Sean, would love for you to just maybe we can start with a brief background from your real click and maybe an interesting hobby or two you like to take in and go from there. I'll be super brief because I'm sure people want to dig into the business. Let's see. Yeah, so background of me, I founded Omoda Health World Medical School. So worked in tech at Google for a couple of years. Wanted to do something at the intersection between tech and healthcare and went to medical school, enrolled in Harvard's MDMBA program and well in that just saw an issue. The issue is that too many Americans are getting care in the wrong way for today's diseases. The visit model that we're all stuck in, that we're all handcuffed in, you know, doesn't work for the 156 million Americans suffering with chronic disease. And so, you know, the Omoda idea was to kind of create a different care model, one that created longitudinal touch points with patients, one that filled that gap between visits. And that's what we're known as as a between visit provider. Awesome. And, let's see. Let's see. What a fun one. I got two kids now. So, there are hobbies, your hobbies change a little bit, but I like to build FPV drones. So, first person view drones, the ones where you kind of put all those on your face and you know, plug them into the computer and try to program all the mechanics of the physics and you sort of together. It's kind of a fun, it's like real, it's like video games with consequences, but you get to play with hardware, a little bit of electronics, you know, software, just apps with blasts for anybody who wants to get into it, couldn't recommend it enough. Yeah, that's fascinating. You must feel kind of surreal to, I remember maybe it was during like COVID time frame, there was like drone racing on ESPN or something because like nothing else could be like, you know, published because there were no sports. Do you ever, have you ever participated in a drone race? I have, yeah, I have. I tried. I signed up for one and I just got worked. There's incredible pilots. It's very hard to do. So, yeah, what's the skill involved with that? Is it just kind of like, you need to know like the wind or is it indoors or like, the air dynamics? The issue, so this is the opposite of flying a DJI drone where they kind of protect you from like going upside down. So, you're able to rotate your drone in all axes and of course the drone has no lift. So, if you're kind of ripping at 60 miles an hour and all of a sudden you find yourself upside down, you're in the ground in a millisecond. So, in the controls are super touchy. In fact, it's a fool's errand to try to fly a drone without spending hours and hours and hours on a simulator. So, before I even let myself into the wild with a real drone, I did 20 hours on the same. And it's just, it's very technical. So, it's interesting. That's what makes it fun and you feel because the Vity-Feed is very low latency. So you feel like you're a fighter pilot on this like mini jet flying between tree branches, doing tricks. It's just, it is a riot. Yeah, that's got to be exhilarating. But, there's some your Bay Area bound. We'll take you out. I'd love to. Yeah. So, last question on this. What's your favorite like part of, you know, SF to do drone, you know? You can't do it in SF. So you've got to go to the birds. Is that no flash of? Yeah, I mean, on various blogs, there's kind of places that have been tagged. My favorite is this park in Concord, Cold Concord, Community Park. It's got kind of enough open space and you don't want to do it in your people because it's pretty dangerous. I mean, they're heavy and they go fast. So it's, you know, it's you have to, you have to kind of dread carefully roll into safety. Yeah, gosh, that's so interesting. All right. Well, for the listeners who are on, that's where you can find Sean Duffy on the weekend. This two kids doing some, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm drowning in the park. Oh, okay. I'm just kidding. Please do not, please do not. Okay. Something else I think is interesting about just like your background is that you were a writer, correct? Or I guess you are, right? Yeah, you know, it's fine. Yeah, that's hilarious. It's a little known. I used to follow this medical technology blog called Med Gadget that I loved. And at one point, I just kind of emailed the editor. I was like, hey, this is fun for me. Any chance you want like somebody to write some pieces. And so, you know, occasionally see something neat right about it. The cover conferences. Yeah, but that was a, you know, a little bit of just a kind of a for fun on the side. Yeah, but I'm still curious like, what was there an article or like, like, what was your favorite thing to write about? Well, the funny, you know, one ironically led to a modern, a weird way, a little known story. I was covering Ted Med, Ted used to have a conference called Ted Med back in the day. I was kind of dispatched to cover it. And I'd write these kind of reports. And I was in like the line for shrimp cocktail or something. And, you know, the standing and standing next to this person from IDO, one of the early founders named Dennis and then we just headed off and sat and had lunch. And I'd always respected the company fast forward while medical school. I was in Harvard's MD MBA. And as you progress through the program, students to clearly are asked to retake it, an internship that blends into business and medicine. I was like, you know what'd be fun? Like it'd be great to be an admin at a hospital and, you know, spend some time at Bergamer. And GH, but like I'm interested in technology and design and healthcare and those intersections. So I just emailed Dennis. Any chance you've ever had a medical school intern? You know, and didn't hear back and emailed again and didn't hear back. And then, you know, fast forward some person in IDO named Mike Mousequitz found my resume on the copy room floor. And apparently Dennis had printed out and was like, an email and he'd be like, why is a med school student interested in IDO? And so it turned into an internship now. Now they have like, you know, I think in still this kind of call the Sean Duffy chair, like a medical school intern or clinician intern, you know, helping on, you know, healthcare transformation projects. So yeah, yeah, I had met in the writing kind of like Duamata. And now for that person, they put that resume on the floor, you know, to select that person in the future. Yeah, I know. Yeah, just all you got to do to get a job is make sure somehow your resume just falls to the floor of the copy room and it's a secret for success. Well, maybe there's like a, you know, lessen with the drones to like make your resume more aerodynamics. So like fly. Yeah, fly is a fly is a very place. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Pleasantries aside. I would love to, you know, dive into obviously, you know, you run a company. So I guess we can talk about that a little bit. Um, um, um, um, and as of this recording, um, you just came back from, you know, the JP Morgan health care conference, uh, based in SF and curious just, uh, for your perspective on, you know, how you think that conference went for you and just the general vibe around, you know, since it's such an investor driven conference. Yes. And lots of, you know, focused on opportunities and where to put capital on all those things. Uh, it was just kind of like the general consensus and vibe and conversation coming from that conversation. Yeah, it was, it was, it was a super fun one. I mean, it's the, you know, the, um, it was the first one as a public company. It's, you know, it's, it's certainly useful when you're private. Um, you know, I would say the, it's, you know, it's significantly more useful when you're public because, um, you know, a lot of the investors that come there, they're public. I mean, it's, yeah, it's kind of the target, if you will. Um, um, you know, it's fun because when you're private, you meet some incredible investors and, you know, they're like, well, it seems like any business like come back to me if you ever go public. It's like, I'm glad it was, but, you know, so it's, um, so it's nice. You can meet, you know, folks that have open questions about the business. You can meet, you know, folks that, uh, you know, our shareholders, um, you know, equally, I think when you're our public, um, it'll be a bit of a bigger, bigger megaphone. So it makes the BD environment and, and, you know, in conversations, uh, a little more robust. So it's, yeah, it was a really fun one. And, um, uh, you know, there's just like what's, what's neat about it is it covers such a gambit of, you know, life sciences, biotech, uh, you know, healthcare services, uh, you, you name it. You get a lot of, um, interesting conversations ranging from like, you know, molecule, chirality of a therapeutic to, uh, you know, the future of value-based care. So, uh, you know, why, why it's spectrum. Yeah. So, in those conversations, was there a specific company that kind of interested you that you hadn't heard about before? Uh, you know, it's funny. You live when you're in my seat, like you live and breathe like, um, uh, like every single thing you do, every single meeting you take, every single ounce of time and energy has to be optimized to like, you know, helping support, you know, your mission. So, it's, um, but, but what, but it was fun. I wish I could kind of recap on what is fun is the, you know, the like, octal hour conversations. And my favorite ones are always the super, you know, geeky ones that bring me back to the, you know, in undergrad and my pre-med and, you know, the, you know, the biochemistry classes of these, just miracles. It's like, it's, um, you know, it's, it's a part where I don't get to engage a ton, obviously in my, in my remit, but just this incredible miracles of science that are being thought of, produce, work on a day-to-day basis, um, you know, so those, those are, those are some of the fun ones. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. And I, I would guess, you know, you kind of seen like the eventual downstream effects of those innovations in life scientists, right? Like, for instance, like, GLP one would be one that's kind of been impacted, you guys. Um, but yeah, that didn't come up at all on the, you know, any conversations. Not at all. Wow. Shot at all. Investors. That's some alpha there for investors. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. By the way, there are these medicines. They're called GLP ones. Yeah. Okay. So we'd love to back up. Actually, there are Koreans. Nobody yet. Nobody yet. Nobody yet. They wouldn't even, yeah, it's like it's funny to you. If you want to be a, you know, an ace out there and show off to friends, you don't even call the LP ones. You call it category and Creetans. Of course, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you, so you talked about, you know, this is your first, uh, go at the JP Morgan as a public company and, you know, you've very recently, public gone public, right? When public last year. Um, so I've been curious for you, like what's been the underrated aspects of, you know, being a public company like that transition, maybe both just personally, but also professionally. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we had, we had a nice, uh, blessing, you know, Edomada and that, you know, there was some, some, you know, a, is a word stagnation in the IPO markets in our space. So there was a lot of activity for a couple of years. And so, um, that led us to be in a position where we could really prepare. And, you know, my aspiration and going public that I've always shared with the teams is that it doesn't feel all too different. Um, because I actually think that for entrepreneurs, that should be the compass on if you feel your business is ready. Um, you know, the hope is that it doesn't feel that different because you don't want it to be a huge shock to the system. Like it's, you know, your core mission shouldn't change at all. I mean, no, not as a mission is to bend the curve, um, uh, you know, a disease that we, do that by supporting customers, by supporting members, you know, not, not as to change. You do have to prep and build more discipline and build a whole so it's of kind of like ancillary capability. And so, um, we had time to do it. I mean, we hard, you know, uh, credible head to I R. We've made sure that, you know, the, the, you know, we had kind of the right constitution of the, you know, the board, you know, to support the company, we're going public just done. So that was, that was kind of great. And, and, you know, and it's more time with investors as they always say, I mean, kind of expected that. And, you know, thank for and bless with another enough public company, CEO friends that, uh, you know, uh, got a little bit of a, you know, a rapid fire, you know, bootcamp of, um, you know, some of the ins and outs. Um, but it's been, frankly, it's been less different than I expected. Um, which is, uh, which was an interesting reflection. I mean, the, um, you know, the, the pace has always been high. Our motto remains high as a public company. Uh, you know, we've always endeavored to build, you know, a mature, disciplined, you know, perform an organization. That's the expectations from your public. That was the expectations we had on the teams and our private. So it's been less, less different, actually. You know, you've got stock price out there, but like what, you know, you kind of, you know, expect that. And, you know, the goal is just to continue to, uh, you know, perform and execute and, um, uh, yeah. So it's not, it's not, uh, it's not all too different. Yeah. Okay. And that's interesting. And, um, you know, just in my past life, I was a, you know, healthcare consultant and valuation analyst and those sorts of things. And it seems like there's kind of, you know, public companies come in waves and healthcare and it's like some services companies go public and then the quarterly kind of grind takes them out and then they go private, you know, those sorts of things. So I'm curious for you, you know, you've talked about how you just mentioned like, it's kind of business as usual for you guys. Like you've got the high-paced environments and, um, you know, that cultural expectation. But how do you kind of reconcile, um, you know, the quarterly grind with like more, the industry, um, norm of kind of working in decades, right? Um, and how things play out over time. And also like, how do you work, you know, basically, you know, your company value is constantly, you know, liquid and fluctuating. And it's like, oh gosh, you know, I made this decision and now my stock prices down or whatever. Like, how do you kind of grapple with those dynamics? Yeah. I never want, I mean, on the, on the, the quarterly one, I know, and just kind of the, the, the, the kind of remained in the comments. I, you know, I shared it. Like if, um, if you're like, oh my gosh, it's going to be so different when the public it probably means maybe the business isn't ready. And, you know, and you don't feel ready. So you should have the compass too. I think be, be such that it's not, you know, there's going to be tunes obviously, uh, and things that are different. But it shouldn't feel like, oh my gosh, I'm in a new company. It should feel like, all right, just a continuation of kind of a steady, a steady, you know, connecting dots on, you know, you know, with a line. I think it's, you know, the first and that. But, um, you know, you'll find camps, you'll, you've got like the, you know, the, the Reed Hastings, which is like, man, you know, you build a bit of business when you're public. Um, you know, you've got like the Michael Dell, which is like, stay private forever. Why would you ever go public? Like, you, you know, you can get capital on the, on, you know, the private markets. Um, you know, I think I think the, uh, journey we've been on toward, you know, independence and, you know, and heading toward being a public company. I think it's made a lot of stronger business. So I'm, you know, I've always got a little bit more, been more oriented toward the Reed Hastings camp. Um, and, you know, and, and, um, obviously depends on your business model. We love our business model. You know, we, um, you know, we talk a lot about, um, you know, the visibility we get, the value we get from customers that are in the rear view mirror, um, you know, as we look toward the windshield. So, uh, you know, we think we have the revenue and the enterprise, you know, like characteristics of the sort of company that can thrive in the public markets. So that, you know, that, um, that, that always allows you to, you know, rest, uh, rest and confidence that the time was right for you to do it. But, um, um, but, uh, but, uh, you know, I think it's about finding the right shareholders and, and, you know, and you can paint and do paint along to remission. And then the second order of question is, do they expect you to perform like, of course? So, so, so did our board and so did we on the private side too. So, um, uh, you know, I think that that should be the, the aim, uh, always. Yeah. No matter whether you're private or public, you always have a vested interest to, you know, grow your business and make sure you're making it sustainable, but also, you know, achieving your mission and those sorts of things. So that makes sense that that's all kind of still in alignment. Um, and you kind of dove into your business model a little bit there. Could you just break down for me, um, maybe, you know, O modest 2025, you know, obviously lots of change, lots of growth and, uh, strategic decisions, GLP ones come to mind and, and other kind of maybe tech decisions and those sorts of things. How would you kind of rate your 2025 and kind of walk me through, you know, the rationale behind those? Yeah, for sure. So, so, you know, pulling up for those who are maybe less, a little bit less familiar with the mod as, as shared in my intro, I mean, we are a provider. We're between visit provider. So we've, um, kind of designed a care model that, uh, we believe is tailor made, uh, you know, four conditions that really don't work in the visit by visit structure. Um, uh, and again, our journey and pre diabetes and weight and obesity, um, um, where it's just obvious that that day to day longitudinal support and a feeling of like, wow, I've got like, you know, someone in a care team like in my corner, in my pocket really matters. That was kind of the, the journey from, from day one, and we've expanded from there to diabetes, to hub protection, hub retention to MSK care, but all these fit the same clinical rubric, uh, you really need that day to day support. Um, and so the average remod, I remember when they sign up, we equipped them with hardware, connected devices like a scalable approach, a couple of cometer, um, uh, we pair them with their care teams, you know, folks like certified diabetes care and education specialist, health coaches, you know, LCSWs and background, um, they get to know our members and then we've got this really neat software experience that ties the room together with like goal setting, you know, content, community, you name it. Um, so it's, it is a IT enabled service, um, and, you know, and leveraging, of course, you know, AI and all these cool technologies, but we think the blend of people in tech, you know, is, is, is a sweet spot. And then we bill as a provider. So, um, that was pretty unique. And that was a, I guess, a business model innovation and that, you know, when I found it or mod a lot of companies that were kind of yesterday's digital health would charge like a, oh, look, a buck, a buck across your whole population, like a PPM, PMPM. And the issue I always had with that was like, it didn't feel that that was maximally aligned with your clients. Um, you know, because for the company, the more people that get in, it would compress your margins. Um, uh, and you as an organizational locomotive, you should be incentivized to help as many people as possible because the unit of value is how you help people. And so, uh, you know, we, we kind of created this unique, you know, business model. I took our trials to the American Medical Association, you know, way back in the day, got them to issue this like cat three CPT code that allows us to just bill. It's like billing infrastructure, um, so that we work with employers and plans, though we have a monthly fee as our, as our business model, it's kind of a monthly fee that includes everything. And it's a neat value based business model. We can file it through fee for service claims. Um, uh, because, uh, you know, it allows you to be treated and thought of as kind of a proper part of the healthcare system. And, um, you know, for the customer, they love it because it's like, oh, wow, this finally is a neat offering that compliments the care that my employees or plan members are getting. And it fits within my systems and rubric. And then from an opportunity standpoint, um, you know, I recognize very early on that the real transformational market opportunity was to make sure that you fit into the financial flows in the same way as like an HCA, you know, or a tenant or any lie lily because that's where, um, you know, at the end of the day, that's where that's where if you look at like companies, that's where kind of market cap is. And, um, and so that's, that's the business model. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. And, um, so maybe like, shifting into like, um, like 20, 25 specifically, um, walk me through, you know, because when we had, we had lunch before and we talked about kind of how, hey, I don't want to really dive into like, do you want prescribing and those sorts of things? Who can, can you walk me through kind of how that decision played out since that conversation and evolution of the Omoda business model from from. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, yeah, and I've gotten the ask about 20, 25. So the, I mean, the first thing to share the punchline, the, um, you know, the, uh, on the Monday of the JP Morgan conference, we did, you know, share our preliminary, um, you know, an audited, you know, performance for the quarter of the year. And, um, you know, for the year, the midpoint of the range we put out was 257 million in revenues, which is 52% year of year growth. So we're, um, you know, we're, we're, we're very proud of that. And, you know, on the panel, you know, modern, at least a Gil, um, you know, with presentation about everybody in the list of Gil, the big question was like, well, what happened? And so that, that, you know, um, and that kind of leads to your question on strategy. The, the, um, uh, you know, the, the, the goal for Moda and, you know, obviously the goal every year is to achieve a world where we're viewed as having highly differentiated unique broadened capabilities, um, uh, you know, to meet a kind of moment in time in a, in a market need. And, you know, from the capabilities side, um, you know, we spent over a decade, um, you know, investing in the breadth of what we do, I described a little bit of it, um, uh, but equally investing in, uh, you know, the, the proof that, um, uh, you know, we, we are delivering what our clients are asking us to. So we have 30 peer reviewed publications. Um, you know, these range from observational trials to randomized control trials. Many of them are health economic publications, so in the kind of economic value of what we do. Um, uh, and so that's, that's been supported. And then the big question that we've been helping answer for biorecently is GLPs, which you, you already kind of jumped to, um, uh, you know, Moda, uh, works with employers in, in plans. We've got over 2000, you know, of them as customers. Um, and those who have chosen the coverage of GLP once for BCZ started the lean on us years ago, uh, and say, look like the cost for going up here, you know, equally, I look at the real, real world data. And there's a lot of folks that stop the meds, regain weight, you know, there's, um, uh, you know, I worry that my gosh, couldn't my employees keep fast food as a daily driver and still be successful. Like, would it make sense to, you know, help support, uh, you know, lifestyle alongside it to maximize the value of a GLP? And so, um, we had a care track. That was kind of the, the, the, you know, the, the first couple of years of our care track, which is how do we maximize weight loss, well on bed? And for those members who kind of raise their hands and say, my goal is actually to see if I'm able to, you know, get off the med and stay successful, we can have an honest conversation that, hey, that's going to be hard, but it's not your destiny. And B, that's why we need to use this on therapy window, um, uh, to, uh, to really, uh, you know, maximize your, your chances of success there. And so that's, that's been amazing. I mean, the amount of member stories that show right in front of us that these meds can actually be a behavioral catalyst or remarkable. I mean, it's, uh, you can create a sense of positivity, momentum, and hope, and grab that ball, ball rolls down the hill, grab it and kind of add inertia such that people are more open-minded to thinking about kind of a week in review of their eating, thinking about physical activity and exercise and strength training and things that they may have not done before. Um, if you can seize it. And so that's our job. So, so we hadn't prescribed the meds. Um, that was, uh, that was by design. Um, although, you know, ages ago, we had tried experimented with med-touchers. I mean, we, we, we prescribed CGMs, um, you know, at a moda. We, so when we, we strategically hadn't. And, and, to be honest, I don't think we would have needed to if the landscape stayed simple, which is two, which was two injectables, roughly same price point, similar-ish outcomes profile, um, uh, uh, but, but the meds not simple anymore. Right. That's it. We're, we're, we're leaving one era and entering a new and GLP is not, I mean, at JPM, the Lillie panel, they highlighted, they have 24 ingredients in, you know, in development 24 one company. Um, so, uh, fast forward a couple of years, uh, you know, some people are going to be on single agnus, dual agnus, triacumus. There's going to be multiple rolls, you know, obviously subjects approval. Uh, these meds are probably going to be at different price points. Even maybe the doses are going to be at different price points. And so, um, uh, as we listened to our buyers and future casted where we felt the markets were going to go, um, we were like, you know, what we need to do, we need to prescribe because that complexity is going to, the first burden that's going to fall is the honor members. They're going to be asking us what the heck now. There's like 70 choices of GLP's, like what, like, what do I do? Which one should I be? I don't why? I didn't like that one. Should I go to that? So, so like, we need to be sophisticated based on our data, our segmentation, the demographics, the, you know, the behavioral graphics, the, like on like which GLP, you know, may actually produce the net, you know, best benefit and value, you know, for that member. And then, um, in order to optimize meds, um, we're going to need to have prescribing capabilities to change the meds. And so that, that became quickly obvious. And equally, the employer's loved that, you know, what, I really want a model alongside. It seems like it's a more integrated experience if it's like closely attached to the script. Um, um, so that, that, that, that led to the conclusion. And then, um, you know, and, and we announced that, uh, in our earnings, uh, our, our Q theories call November last year. Yeah. And I mean, the thesis makes sense, right? Like, having more integrated obesity, you know, care experiences, econic disease makes sense, you know, and you have, from what I've seen, you know, when the, in your investor presentations and so forth is using Omada results in better outcomes as far as weights, loss, retention and those sorts of things. Correct. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Um, I'm curious around the prescribing part. Are you, are you employing docs? Or like, how does kind of like that piece work? You know, for that, well, we, what we've, what we've kind of announced is that we're going to, you know, lean on kind of a great third party partner. Um, uh, that'll be embedded. This is not too dissimilar to how we do CGMs. It'll be embedded within the Omada experience. And so, you know, the North Star there is, um, uh, you know, member experience and simplicity plus like scale quality, you know, reliability and there are many awesome organizations that can serve that need. Um, uh, so, you know, it kind of pointed us to, to say, look, do we, do we really need to hire, you know, the physicians ourselves like, no, like, you know, there's plenty of awesome organizations that have all the PC structure. Could we of course, but it's, you know, the answer was no, we didn't feel like we needed to. And then, and then we have, of course, our like entire clinical team creating them, the clinical vision, uh, you know, in, in, in governance and background. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm curious just because, you know, that is like an outsourced decision and there's some, I would guess like a liability around that, like, obviously, you're, you're vetting that. But how, how do you vet that risk and how to, what went into that partnership selection? Oh, yeah, we're kind of a thorough, a thorough, um, you know, process here in RFP and met with the number of folks that we felt could, could do a credulge on and also evaluated should we do it ourselves to, um, and, you know, and, uh, in the core compass, was, uh, you know, number one quality quality, uh, and, you know, in, uh, in safety and clinical credibility. And that's, um, that's like the number one. Like that's, we, I mean, members, trust with our members and our buyers, like, is paramount. So that was kind of one. And, you know, I mean, you do see like a diversion, especially in the GLP space, like, pretty broad, wide breadth of, uh, you know, uh, uh, capability is aligned with that vector. And then, and then, just member experience, does the technology allow us to make it such that it's really simple? Um, uh, you know, and, and, uh, you know, continues to what I always say is past the Sean Duffy's mom test, which is, um, my mom's great with using that. She's probably not pairing her Wi-Fi skill with her home network. Like, we need to make sure that, um, you know, it's just very simple and, you know, and easy for everybody. I love that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna steal that term, the Sean Duffy mom test. Primary care is broken. Patients struggle with physician shortages and gaps in care access. Tom helps close both. Tom continuously reviews patient data at a speed and level of detail humans can't do alone, identifying rising risks and care gaps earlier to providers, allowing them to keep patients engaged. Tom delivers responsive access to providers, less inbox noise for clinicians, and more time for medicine. See how at lumeris.com/platform. Um, and the reason why I ask is kind of you kind of alluded to it, but seems like there's always a wild west of health care. And right now with, you know, the DTC, kind of telehealth model, it's like people are saying, how can I get my hands on GLP ones? And, you know, the compounded drugs or whatever it is. And maybe there's like this kind of gray market. So I'm curious like, you know, maybe folks go onto the amount of platform and they're like, hey, I just want GLP ones, right? Like, America loves drugs. They just want to lose their weight that way and whatever. And how do you have you kind of experience that? And if so, how do you kind of deal with that kind of member? Yeah, well, well, you know, we do do it. So the strategy for model, we're an enterprise company. We're going to stay enterprise and we're going to stick to the branded meds. So this is, you know, we're not in net, you know, the compounded rules are not worse. So I just need to insinuate you wouldn't do that. Oh, no, for sure. For sure. But that's kind of the first thing we'll go over there. There's the enterprise side and then there's the consumer side. Um, uh, you know, in the enterprise side, what our customers are asking us to do at the end of the day, it's, you know, it's fine. They, they view us as a GLP one value maximizer. It's interesting. Like, they don't view us as like a cost on top of the med. They view us as like, wow, a way to responsibly maximize the value of the investments that they're making in the medicine. And, and part of what that maximization includes is, uh, really trying to unpack people's goals. So, for your point, um, uh, yeah, someone comes in and says, I want the man. I don't want this from out of thing. It's like, well, why do you want the man? Tell me Blake, they're like, well, I want to lose weight. Wonderful. How much weight do you want to lose? How do you want to feel while losing weight? Did you know that like, we have a lot of success in helping people lose even more weight? Well, on these medicines, yeah, let me show you some case studies and some testimonials here. Like, and, and, and, and the neat thing is like, um, you, again, this is the inertia comment. There, there, you know, these meds are such a remarkable intersection between biology and behavior. Um, uh, you know, like a vaccine, does a vaccine need like a services, you know, tech layer on top of course not. Like GLP ones, um, I mean, you're dealing with psychology, eating, behavior side effect profiles like, you know, uh, like individual biology based on kind of responders, no responders, you know, I mean, you name it. So, um, uh, uh, you know, you're, you're in a neat place when supporting someone alongside the med to leverage momentum because the average person, you know, on, on the med is, you know, they, they, they clearly don't want to be overweight. I mean, imagine you have a BMI of 43 and you've tried everything and you have a, you know, perhaps a negative self image, um, you are, uh, feeling saddened with your health trajectory. And some instances you feel just resigned that you're on a bad health trajectory and all the sudden, there's this glimmer of hope. And you're like, oh my gosh, like I, I, I feel like I'm heading actually toward more versus let's help, let's help. And, and that opens the door to like a mindset shift and you can grab that and say, like, wonderful, like, let's turn success in a more success. Tell me about like, just don't, you know, with, with no, no judgment at all. Tell me about, like, what's a week in your life of eating? Already live when you get your foods, what do you like? What is your spouse like? What are your kids like? How do you plan? Do you ever find yourself like, oh my gosh, I'm pressed and don't hadn't thought about dinner until 10 minutes before dinner, like what's like, let's, let's kind of unpack. And you can, you get, you get an open mind and same with activity and same with other care behaviors and same with other care plans generally. And it's like, oh, you don't have a primary care doc. Okay. So it's a, yeah. So you really can take the holistic, you know, mindset that'll a little bit of glimmer of hope toward health. You know, that a deal, one can help start and run with it to create more, you know, outcomes. Yeah. And I feel like that extends beyond obesity too, right? For, for a mod and chronic disease management, but I know we've talked about this in the past, but it's almost like you have like an integrated mental health component like to your model, right? Because, you know, you got this care team that actually is, is listening to this person who, who, like you said, maybe has tried a bunch of things and, you know, maybe is an overeater or like an addict and, and those sorts of things. And there's a lot of shame attached to that. And they don't want to engage, right? And then all of a sudden they may, you know, maybe they have this benefit through their employer or whatever it is. And all of a sudden, you know, they're able to access that. And so maybe, I would love for you to maybe expand on kind of just the, you know, how to invoke behavior change in your members and, you know, the community aspect and the mental health aspect and how that all kind of integrates. Oh, for sure. And it's like far more psychology than knowledge. I mean, if it was knowledge alone, then then we wouldn't have an obesity issue. You know, I think in my, like, found new founders, literally, S1, you know, kind of described about as the anti pamphlet. You know, because it's like the average patient interaction is like, hey, here's your med, come back in six months, here's a pamphlet on how to eat better, go do it. Don't forget to check your sugars. Don't read exercise. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. And so there's so many like traps. And it's, it's literally, it's just the thousands of tiny details that matter. But I can give kind of a couple examples of the biggest, you know, the biggest traps that we help our members avoid. The first is like overdoing it. You know, it's often we'll get these members with a ton of momentum and be like, hey, like, I'm here. I'm ready. I'm going to do it. Numi's coming. I'm hitting the gym. I got a gym membership and we go every day this week and we're like, no, no, no, no, no, don't. It's like it's like the New Year's resolution effect, right? Like, yeah, I'm going to be going to burn out. Yeah, people, people try to overdo it. And, and, and, and then you feel discouraged, and you set unrealistic expectations that it doesn't fit in your lifestyle and your norms. And it's like, so that doesn't work. And so it's so, you know, and you see the same thing with eating. It's like, especially with restrictive diets. I mean, you know, like, my gosh, as over the deck, it doesn't matter how many like, like flies and falls that we've seen in the diet, you know, and, like, you know, zeitgeist world of like today's flavor is whole 30 that it's keto, then it's, I mean, you name it that never, it never works. You need to have a positive psychology around nutrient density, helping people support what more things they could eat that they like that have more nutrients. And it's like, and then the positive psychology around eating more of that displaces what you would have eaten otherwise. So, so there's, there's an arc to it. It's, there's a, there's a huge arc to it. And every time we build anything in a moda, we have kind of a little pod on our, you know, our clinical team that like leverage and scour and, you know, the behavioral science literature to like, what, you know, within this feature set, what would make the most sense here, behaviorally. And that tends to work because it's an identity thing. Like it's, you, you, you, uh, you've, you've programmed through this yourself. I know I have, it's like, um, like I don't touch, I haven't like drunk soda and I don't even know like, like decades, but like I don't, I'm not a person who drinks soda, but, but at some point I did. And I don't know when that flip happened, but it's like tied into the identity. And so, um, there's this like grocery cart story that occasionally pops up at a moda. And I think it's the best example of it where we'll have our members tell us like, I had this crazy experience. It's at the grocery store and I made the check out line. And I, and I looked at the cart in front of me and I, and I found myself judging that person. Like, how could you feed that to your family? But then I only realized that literally like six months ago, that was me. And like that is the unlocked. It's literally, it's like an identity shift where it's not, like I'm trying to do something differently. It's, I'm just trying to be me. Um, and that's very, it's completely doable to do. Um, but it requires a ton of listening unpacking goals, very, very gentle experience, never telling people what to do. Um, and so that's, that's kind of the art. And, um, you know, and that's, that's a, that's true with a lot of, a lot of chronic diseases. Um, uh, and so that's where our capabilities are really shining. Are you? Yeah. Yeah. That's fascinating. I appreciate you unpacking that for me. And, and something you mentioned that I'd, I'd love to double click on is kind of, you know, you're working with your, your clinical team and looking at the behavioral science and, um, you know, building new features or whatever that is. So I'm curious, you know, from a, just like a technology standpoint, um, one, what technology, you know, kind of have you built, uh, to support, you know, clinical teams or connect to these management, etc. Your, your business functions. And two, how was kind of, how was AI kind of, you know, getting infused into those functions? No, for sure. So we're, uh, we've taken a pretty holistic approach to the model, like, you know, full stack building, all the needed pieces and some of the joke that we have nine digital health companies and one because, um, you know, I mean, you can find companies in our capabilities. There's like a food tracking companies, activity tracking companies. There's health education, you know, content companies. There's health community companies. There's coaching companies. There's, you know, biometric, you know, biometric medical, you know, like the remote remote, remote monitoring companies. I mean, you name it. So, um, uh, EHR companies, the, the, the, uh, early reflection was that like, oh my gosh, it is so hard to get any outcome at all in the space. We have to build everything. That was just like a, uh, that just like just sitting in homes of people with diabetes, obesity, pre-dibedies in the early days, like what it was such an obvious how hard the challenge was and how everything needed to be integrated to create the right sort of care model. Um, so that, that was the compass. And then, um, uh, and then we used to sit there, my co-founder and I, like, I remember these moments in the Laura's Park were like dreaming about what software could maybe someday do. And you know, I, I worked at Google prior and, um, and like, and, and then all the sudden AI comes and we're like, oh my gosh, it's like, let's dust off that wish list that was like the maybe someday and let's just rapidly check it off. Um, and so it's been so fun. And, and it's so fun to do it in a way that I think is germane to like, Omano's reputation, which is around thoughtfulness and substance, like it's not like, reflexively, oh, we had a chat bot where an AI company, like I don't think that works. It's like, what specifically do you need the AI to do for your members for your care teams? And so, um, we've launched a whole lot of features. It's a really cool like AWS publication. I think we got like nine or nine or 10 models, like, in production with different use cases, like fine tuned in different ways. Um, we've got, they're called about a spark. We've got our nutritional, you know, like model, uh, that's like fine tuned on, you know, three million foods from over 150 countries. And um, you know, to give you an example of like what today's care team wouldn't do today that they would have done yesterday is, um, if you, if I was your coach and, you know, I got a message from Lake and it said, hey, I'm just thinking, you know, I'm thinking the Thursday, like doing a fish recipe. Any ideas? Um, you know, I want to be responsive. In yesterday's world, we had a whole library of like recipes, you know, it's pretty cool, but um, I would kind of dust that off. I would look at your clinical profile, and re-remind myself of, um, you know, your conditions. I would, uh, try to remember your likes and your dislikes and pick the right things in the library or if not, kind of make you one. Um, in today's world, I turf it to our nutritional agent. And, and it quickly makes a recipe. Yeah. With all the context needed, it knows all the interactions we've had, it knows your current health status, your trajectory, your likes, it really looks back and re-reminds itself that at one point, you said that like my husband hates swordfish. Um, uh, and, and it just, and it spits out, uh, what's needed. And so that's, that's a win across the board because it's like, it's not high value from a task standpoint. And, and the coach can feel like they have like a report. It's like a, they have like a team member that they delegate the work to. Um, uh, and, and, and it's faster. Uh, and it's better. So it's like, there's this art, you know, like in medical school, they always talk about the art and science and medicine. And, and it's like, the way I've begun to think about it is, you know, you, you cast out, uh, a vision here and the science is obviously the models. Like will a model be better at understanding a decade of the latest in college research? Like then, then the person like, of course. Um, and the art of how to apply that against like human judgment against like, and frankly, just because people are complex people and they like to feel cared for and they have like preconceptions and biases. And I mean, like the people are the, um, you know, are the art, uh, you know, with the, with the science applied. So, so we're, um, we're living that on a daily basis. Yeah, I love that. That's super cool. And it's looking forward to, you know, how you guys continue to leverage AI. Um, but on that note, obviously you've had some, some great financial results and your gross margins have expanded. And in my, in my, in my opinion, it seems like with the, you know, this dawn of AI that the kind of original tech enabled services thesis is kind of back and, and playing out in the sense that, hey, in the healthcare as a service, you can leverage technology and actually like expand your margins, right? Um, so I'm curious. Do you agree with that point and to, um, where, if, if anywhere, are you seeing that kind of play out at O'Mata? Yeah, yeah, no, and we've, we're certainly proud of the margin, you know, progress. I mean, in Q3 of, you know, last year, which you shared on November earnings, it was a, you know, around 68%. So we're, um, you know, we're kind of in that per 60s territory, um, at least as of, you know, that, that, that quarter. So the, that's, that's, that's great. Um, the, the how is, uh, you know, not just efficiency of personalization. It's also product mixed too. So, um, you know, over time, as we've expanded, um, into diabetes and hypertension and other carriers, the R-Pruisl, the higher, um, and the gross margin propolis slightly different. So you get, you get kind of a little bit of a margin tailwind just generally based on the nature of like the pricing model of various conditions. Um, uh, you know, but you do need to obviously leverage your resources in your care teams, um, uh, you know, is efficiently, you know, as possible here. And, and then the, and then the compass, of course, is to, um, inform out of this is great is to, you know, ensure that you're never compromising what works. Um, uh, you know, because a model only charges when people are continuing to use what we do. So it's like, uh, you know, the neat thing, I actually always view efficiency is interesting, but, um, uh, you know, engagement is, um, you know, more interesting relative to like upside potential for the business. Um, but because if people stick with us longer, you know, all that drops to ebita and, you know, and that improves our margin, you know, profile. Um, uh, you know, because, you have more revenue in the same cost structure. So, so it's, that's the, uh, so the alignment's awesome. It's not about like how much efficiency can we eke out of this, you know, individual care team member. It's how can we create just the most remarkably engaging, interesting experience leveraging the technologies that, that allow people to stay in longer. Yeah. And that expands margins. Um, so it's, that's kind of one of the unique things about, uh, the, the business that we love. So it's less about, it's kind of restatement. Like your care team member going from, you know, 50 members to 2000 or whatever, you know, I don't know, the story got members. It's more about, hey, these, these members are more engaged. And so therefore we can plug them into more services that they need. And that kind of permeates throughout the organization. That kind of the right way to think about it. Well, yeah. I mean, it's, it's like, it's kind of a planning orientation. It's like the, um, you know, I mean, I think you started the question with like, I team able services or maybe getting back and vogue and, um, I've seen various flavors of that over the last decade. And I'd never cared because it's like, like, it's, it's like enduring success for a business like Oma, is enduring trust with clients and members and, and outcomes. And so it's like, well, we, it does seem that in order to move the needle and ultimately bend the curve, we will need a combination of like hardware people technology, the eH. So it's like, so great. All of a sudden, the output of that is it seems like we're an IT double service. It's not like, and, and that's no different with how we're thinking about, um, utilization of the care team members. It's like, what are they doing? What are they doing that they like to do? What are they doing that they dislike to do? If they dislike that and they think that's a time waste, or can we automate that? And the output of that is efficiency. And if, if the output of efficiency means a larger, you know, remit of who you can support great, but we don't start with that as a hypothesis. We look at the micro, like, like bits and pieces of the work and what, what they're doing to support the member to back into what we can do. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Love that framing. Okay, maybe a final question on AI, then I'll, you know, cool my jets, but it is exciting to talk about. I'm sure you saw the announcements from, you know, open AI and in drop-back around, you know, both the B2B, but also that the consumer play. And maybe there's some hiccups right now with like integrations from what I've seen and those sorts of things, but it seems like there's a, you know, renewed attempt AI enabled attempt, right, with a large consumer-centric company in and open AI or in in drop-back, which more, more DB maybe, but to to recreate kind of like that personal health record, right, and like, give people to change their behaviors and upload their lab data and ask questions or whatever and those sorts of things. So I'm curious, like, what's your perspective on that? Do you see that as like a existential business threat to you as far as like, oh, I'm going to upload my own data and I don't need, you know, somebody like a care team, like member like O'Mata or like anything like that or how do you kind of think about that entrance, I guess? Yeah, I know. I love it. No, no, I don't do it as an existential threat. I've eaten the, and what the way that I think about it is it's kind of the next evolution of the way that people use Google for health. And, you know, when I was at Google, like health, health search terms were always near the top of the list. Yeah, the numbers of people that like I have an itch in my throat do I have cancer, like that sort of term, you know, that those sort of searches were really common and remain really common and, and, and, you know, and so what did Google do? They tried to specialize, they built out like better answers and, you know, it's like, so, so imagine you're at open AI and you're trying to think how do I provide more value to members? You're going to look at what people search for. And it's going to be no different than Google because obviously a lot of people are beginning to use LMS instead and it's going to be health as a key thing. And so then you're going to think, well, what are the, what are the open questions within the health remit in ways to like, you know, improve the solutions there and kind of create a vertical. And now what they've launched, I think it's really smart and, and love that they're doing it, which is, it's more of a data safety privacy trust product as it stands where there's, you know, there's like a secondary area with health where it's like creates a data boundary against anything you pull and either that you put yourself or interface for, you know, your, your comments on, you know, leveraging, you know, APIs and, and health data exchanges and, and that health container can read the other chats but not the other way around. And so it's really, it's, it's really kind of a data privacy, you know, product and then, you know, the model leveraged the data differently, which I think is awesome. And I can, consider kind of the general purpose tool. In fact, I'm sure there's instances where it's like, you know, there, there's like questions about what they're seeing in, you know, the remata data. I mean, I'm sure people are like screenshotting things and dropping it in like the, you know, of course, we can embed those technologies within our care experience. All these companies of APIs. Very cool. But I, but I think it's awesome. And I mean, the more, the more health data and sophistication and agency brought to the, the everyday person, the better, especially with the context of a kind of a crisis in labor supply in the US health care system. Yeah, yeah, I love that. So you see it as more collaborative. And that's a great way to be. And I, you know, I'm still on the wait list for the chat to be tea a little for health thing. So they must not know who I am, you know, so I, you're gonna listen to this. You're not gonna need me on short. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Okay, one, one thing I wanted to ask you about was kind of your relationship with, with Intermountain, which is, you know, it's a health system. Do you have other health system partnerships? And, and I guess maybe backing up before that question. What's kind of like the, what was the genesis of that? I know Intermountain invested in you guys a while back and you've had a long standing relationship. But can you kind of break down how maybe that's different than like a, a different channel partner? Oh, yeah, for sure. So, so I mean, the good of market amount are three pillars. It's self-interimplorers, you know, health plans and PBMs and health plans and PBM service channel self-interimplorers in our partnerships or they cover us for their fully-insured or government sponsored lens of business. You know, and then, and then it's integrated health systems. And you've highlighted Intermountain as an example. You know, we're super proud of that. You know, we do, do work with the integrated systems, you know, like the Kaiser Permanente is the world, you know, et cetera, you know, as well. The, the, you know, obviously they were able to think about a little bit differently because an Intermountain, you know, pays for care, provides care. You know, and for them, the genesis was no different than the genesis in other areas. It's like, wow, interesting. Like it seems that our infrastructure, you know, is creating gaps between care. We try to fill them, you know, and with either case management or, you know, just kind of second resources, but, but, you know, it's the umata care experience is quite a bit different. So, you know, it's a, it's a moda. They, you know, in fact, one of the earliest people that I remember, I remember a clinical leader at Intermountain, ages ago that was like, you know what? You kind of like our between visit provider. And, and I, chuckled, I was like, you know, hilariously, that's how I've been describing a mod out in the world. And, and this was the before and so vocal is that it's helping people fit kind of a reference point in what we do because that's how they viewed us. And that was great because that's how we viewed ourselves, showing us a nice match. And that's how that relationship works. And I love, I love those. And, you know, and hopefully, as, you know, who knows maybe like the CMCMI access model, other things like that enable a moda to do deeper work with systems, because it's always so special. Clinicians love it, clinicians love it, patients love it, you know, everybody wins. Unfortunately, a lot of the world still fee for service, so that makes it difficult. But we do have dozens of, you know, systems as customer for their employees as an employee benefit. And in time, as our coverage grows, as in the universe of what we can do grows, you know, my hope is that we are on a long journey to get us closer and closer to point of care, which is a, you'd be a really special thing because docs don't like having the only tool be hey, come back in six months and here's a medicine. What do you think needs to happen for you to get to get to that point? Well, you need, I mean, you need enough coverage. You know, I mean, right now, as of the end of 2024, we've kind of shared, we've got north to 20 million covered lives. And so those are, you know, in adults or, you know, people in the US that should they need us have us as part of their medical benefit. And, you know, so it's maybe like roughly one in 10 commercial insurance adults. That's probably not enough to go to the everyday system and be like, hey, let's be a care partner because they're like, oh, shoot. Well, that means like nine in 10 of my patients are going to be like high and dry. And you can't like change practice patterns and behaviors unless you're like more covered. So, now that's, that's national. That's not there. There is geographic variance in that. So there may be some pockets of the country where, you know, there could be viability there. But I think the coverage landscape growing is what unlocks our ability to work more closely with systems. And, and if you're listening to this in your system executive, I think there's like so many wins for both of us and your patients, even at the current coverage threshold. So always open mind into a conversation. Awesome. There you go. Yeah. And we're not even asking you to pay. That's the thing. This is a amount of selling you anything. That's what it is. How can we be a care partner to amplify what you do? You know, on the back of our existing coverage. I heard it here first. I'm happy to connect you with John if you're listening. So you did bring up access. The, you know, the new CMMI model. And also, it seems like just conversation on on Capitol Hill around healthcare and you know, make America healthy again. Not to get political or anything like that. Seems to be pretty in line with maybe your goals as a company. So how have you kind of vetted that program and kind of just like the current conversation around conic disease in America? Yeah, for sure. For sure. And it's, you know, the conversation on chronic disease is a really important one. And you know, I mean, that like I worry that it becomes political because it's like, chronic disease should be the least political thing on the planet. I mean, it's like it's crippling our country and the globe. And so eating at the end. And I think thankfully, I think the average person views it that way. And of course we do at Omada as well. And there's a ton of innovation happening. I mean, you have like, you know, it's funny. It's a little known thing. Not, it's not a little known. It's like, you've got like Archbrenures riddled through CMS. And like, health tech founders or, you know, people that worked at health that companies, I mean, it's like it's so fascinating. It's like, you know, you've got the likes of like the Abe Sutton Jacob Schiff's Dan Proleman, like obviously Dan, the Chris Klopp, like it's like the, you know, the Shalor Roy, they've like, they've lived in like healthcare, like startups and entrepreneurship. And they're dreaming big, which is neat to see. And so, I mean, you know, a lot of the models have come out. They left us with a lot of reading material, you know, over the end of last year, as I'm sure, you know, they did with anybody who's interested in those models. But, you know, I applaud it. And, you know, and a lot of it's very innovative. And you know, Mod has expressed our intent to participate in access. Equally, we kind of don't know. And if we communicated that we don't know what it means to the business or not yet, because there's a lot of details forthcoming. They have announced the price. And, you know, and then there's just open questions we'd have to figure out about how the, you know, the go-to market would work. But it's awesome. And so, we're learning, we're listening. And, you know, and love the attention on chronic and the space, because it's an important one. Yeah, and I'm curious. I imagine that participating in something like access, if it, you know, turns out to be economically viable and supported and all those things might serve as a competitive advantage for you guys, concerning you have, you know, such longstanding data and like performance metrics and outcomes and those sorts of peer-reviewed resources and those sorts of things to kind of prove your worth. Because that's kind of the spirit of the model, right? Like kind of, hey, patient is these benchmarks, like in a kind of individual format. Is that kind of how it? Well, yeah. And one thing I mean, one thing we're proud of, it's like the word enterprise company. So, you know, I don't think we'd run superble ads on access. You know, so it's, but that being said, so one of the neatest features in my view of the access model is that, you know, the person's primary care physician can participate and bill, you know, up to 100 a year, you know, per patient. And if they work with an access provider, which is great, because as we just talked about, like it's such a slam dunk, if we can get services like what we offer, closer to the primary care and the medical home. And that's really important, especially Medicare. And so, you know, we hope that when, when and if we start having conversations with systems that care for a lot of fee for service, Medicare beneficiaries, original Medicare beneficiaries, they're like, you know what, if I am going to work with an access provider, I probably want them to be at scale. You know, I probably want them to have peer review publications. We got 30. I probably want them to have some of the accreditations that we have to have. We're, you know, we're remain the only in our space and diabetes. And that's hyper, it's an NCAA credited for population health programs. And we hope that that, you know, that shines through. And some of the trust that we build in the case of studies we have with the likes of, you know, the Intermountain's, you know, give us a little like operational expertise in how to really closely partner with them, you know, the system itself. For sure. Well, you know, looking forward to hearing more from you guys on that and just on access in general. And I'm sure future models that they're where they're cooking exactly. There's a lot of really creative names. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I got one more healthcare question for you. And it's more just like future-based. How do you think about, you know, what should we expect from Amata in 2026? You know, what are you guys building? What are you guys thinking about? Yeah. Leave it open ended. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So I mean, yeah, this is probably going to be recurring joke every year. I joke, you know, like this is the year of the G's. So that was that was going to my joke in 2020, 2025, GLP's GPT. I love that. You know, you heard it here. Yeah. I think this is my first podcast of the year. Oh, yeah. I'm breaking the ice here. So officially I mark 2026 as the year of the G's for Amata, GLP's and GPT. No, I hear that. Next year is the year of the H for hospitality, but I don't know. Oh, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, so that's where a lot of our innovation is pointed. You know, because A, the market expects that of us, you know, but more importantly, we think it best to remember us and there's so many cool things to do. I mean, the, you know, the intricacy in personalized and experience, you know, like this needed in between visit care, you know, it feels like it never ends. And every year, I've always felt that we're only 10% of our journey well, to what our product can and should do. And so there's a ton of excitement. You know, and that's where as we've kind of shared, we're placing the chips there. And in a way that's balanced. I mean, you know, we've communicated to the, the street is like, look, what we remain committed to a long term. You know, operating larger targets of 20% plus, long term, you know, gross margin targets of 70% plus. And, you know, in our investing in a rubric of A, recognizing that, you know, we feel that we've got a nice mode and the goal is to make it deeper. And, you know, while making progress, you know, across the, you know, the P and L, which has been the spirit, if you look at the rear mirror as well. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Here's one, one kind of follow up on that is how, how do you make the most deeper, like in your opinion? What's, how do you, you know, get the shovels that expand? It's, it's, it's, it's the recognition that outside of what we've talked about on how like intricate and hard it is to, to, you know, do what we do. Anyway, it's the recognition that people's journeys in chronic disease are really end of one. And it's, you know, it's a very hard thing to personalize. And so the end, the end state, the goal for us is like, you know, you've got grandma Rota and Boko Rotone signing up for a modder being like, this is weird. Like this program, and this thing just feels like it was made for me. Can't explain why, but this is, this is just incredible. This is exactly what I felt like I needed. And then you've got like, you know, Frank 23 in Seattle says the exact same thing. And that's, that's a hugely difficult destination to get to. That'll take many, many years. And that's, you know, that's, but that's what we've got to get to. Because that's, that's what maximizes our chance to have the maximum outcomes regardless of, you know, the population. And I'm, you know, and meet the most of the need, which, you know, at the end of the day is a, germane to what we got to do is, which has been the curve of disease. All right. Yeah. The era of the individualized care platform is upon us, right? Thanks for that, Sean. I appreciate that aside. Final icebreaker question for you before we wrap up here. Something I've been asking other folks that I've had on is, what's, what's a non-healthcare, you know, piece of content or book or media, whatever it is that you've consumed that has just kind of fundamentally changed how you view, how you live your life. I mean, well, it's funny. I mean, like, I will, I will listen, I mean, there's, there's, so technology content is like so fun for me. I mean, obviously, listen to the health care content of I will listen to literally any, any single word from Mark Andrews. And it's like, like, I can listen to for hours and hours and hours. I'll find any podcast. He's one of many, obviously incredible people, but it's like the, the, what he's seeing in technology and the way he articulates it and, and the provocation of his ideas is like, so, it's just like so awesome. It's just so awesome. So the, that's, that's like, you know, that's like the, you know, the information diet that, that, that, that, like, is, you know, is kind of a learning, and then, you know, it's for fun. Like, I've started to read a little bit of Ian Banks, you know, little sci-fi, but, yeah, exactly. So, but yeah, those are probably two, I'd point to. All right, awesome. Well, Sean, thanks so much for, you know, taking the time to be on the podcast today. I learned a lot and, you know, best of luck to Elmata in 2026. And I'm sure we'll be, you know, having another conversation here soon. Yeah, my, my, my pleasure, Blake, anytime. And again, I look forward to flying, flying drones with you in short over here. All right, let's make it happen. Thanks for listening to this episode of Claims Denied. Stay up to date with news and trends in healthcare by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. You can find more resources and apply to join the Hospitality Community at hospitality.com. Also, if you love Claims Denied, please tell a friend and share it with a colleague. Until next time, Hospitality Just. [Music]