The Year Before the Ask: Capital Campaign Prep with Mark Quigley

*fundrazing everywhere sums up everything* Welcome to the fundraising everywhere podcast. You'll go to place for fundraising tips and inspiration. Love what you hear? Get more insights straight to your inbox. Subscribe to our email list for exclusive fundraising resources, early access to training, special discounts and more. Just head on over to fundrazingedwear.com/podcast to subscribe. Now, onto today's episode. Enjoy! Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the fundraising everywhere podcast. My name is Simon Skriver from Fundrazing Everywhere and I am very happy to be back with you again as your host today. And we have an exciting episode today. We have a guest of mine who I haven't had a chance to speak to. In a good few years, it is the wonderful Mark Quigley who I haven't seen since, well, he reminded me, IFC. Many years ago at a fancy dress collar. Hello Mark, welcome. How are you? I'm good, Simon. Thank you for having me. Mark, it's so nice to see you again. And one of the reasons I was a bit confused was because I thought we might have met when I was in Australia at that time. And I might have seen you over there. But Mark, you're an Australian based fundraiser. Maybe you could just tell us a little bit about yourself, people who don't know you. Yeah, sure. So my name is Mark Quigley. I do have a fundraising in philanthropic consultancy here in Sydney, Australia. And I've been doing capital campaigns for about 30 years now. So it's been a long career in one specialty, magic of fundraising and capital campaigns. I mean, 30 years is a long time. That's quite an experience, especially in such a, I don't want to say knee share, but you are very specialised in capital campaigns, although I think of you as a quite a quite a smart fundraising leader. But what's driven you to these capital campaigns? How have you fallen into this? Look like so many other people I fell into fundraising. It wasn't sort of what I had planned to do. But once I got a bit of a feel for it and got some great mentors early on, I really fell in love with it. And I can honestly hand on hard after 30 years say I really, really enjoy our sector. I love the people in it. And I know it sounds very cliche, but every day you wake up and you have the chance to make the world a better place. You've been, I mean, some of the numbers that you I've seen you mentioned about how much you raise that I watering. And you've obviously been, you know, a practitioner, you've helped so many people through their capital campaigns. But now I'm very fortunate to speak to you because you were just on the cusp or in the midst of your book launch, you have finally put this all down on paper, this 30 years of expertise. And you have a new book out one year before your capital campaign, a 12 month guide to pre campaign success. Mark, congratulations on publishing a book. Thank you. It has been a serious mountain to climb. There have been plenty of moments where I've wanted to jump off that mountain. But yes, it's great to see it come to fruition and be out in the world. It's amazing because I mean, you see a lot of people who have a book in them, but I think like to actually finish it to get it done. It's out there. The reviews are great. People I've read some really good feedback about it. Like it's an achievement. And I hope you are stopping to take the time to like pat yourself on the back, I guess, for actually getting it out there. Yeah, no, look, thank you very much. Yeah, I've been very fortunate. It's been well received. I've had a very supportive fundraising network. Some global names that, you know, you and your listeners would would recognize who have been encouraging along the way, I've provided advice and guidance have looked over early drafts and certainly made it a better book. Yeah, I'm really grateful to them. And I think I set out a few years ago to write a book that was complimentary to the existing books that were out there, but not another repeat. And this is the only book that deals exclusively with the year before your capital campaign. And what I mean by that is the year before you actually even commission a feasibility study to then decide if you're going to move forward with the capital campaign. So it's a really exciting book. It's been well received and look, I'm just happy to have it out in the world. It is interesting that you've focused on those 12 months before and I think that is one of the things that makes this unique and I think it's really interesting because whenever I've gone to a session or whatever I've seen someone speak about capital campaigns. It is so much about beforehand, like it is about those early stages. And I think, you know, that's that's almost to me, it seems like the common mistake that's made in capital campaigns is focusing on on the during or focusing on the peak thing as opposed to that preparation. So I want to unpack some of that, but I'm really curious why now is the time that you've written the book like why have you finally decided to put it is it a midlife crisis mark or what's going on? No, I think I would find much better ways to just as my midlife crisis. And the reason I suppose is because of the reoccurring pattern that I've seen over the course of three decades and in a self confession moment, I hadn't recognized that pattern in day one obviously in getting into capital campaign consultancy. But as the years pass, he starts to recognize things, whether it's inside the campaign when it's occurring or in the year leading up or in the feasibility study as a precursor and it just really got me to thinking that it's amazing regardless of whether it's iconic charities that, you know, names that are known globally or whether it's the small local charity that operates in a single city. Some of the mistakes or the I would hesitate to call failings, but some of the mistakes are are global in nature. And so it kind of lent itself to to the book. And that's interesting because you obviously work with such such a range of organizations from these big multi nationals to like you said, the small local charities and time. I mean, it's hard to tie them all together. You know, there's an ongoing theme of campaign, but they're all they're also different, but you must see repeat experiences, you must see comments. I mean, what is like I suppose what is the common mistake? What is the recurring thing that that is the difference, whether these make or break it? I've definitely seen a few things that I would call out. The first is and it's going to be very cliche, but the first is is simply failing to plan. Despite organizations knowing a capital campaign is coming on the horizon, which most often they do, whether again, whether it's the small local charity or the global entity, they know a capital campaign is coming. But there are various reasons all pack in a second as to why they don't plan that would be the first one. And the next one is time and that again relates back to the book of why I've sort of written it the way I have, but time is your friend until it isn't. And that's definitely a theme that comes through or pattern that comes through. And then the last one is annual fundraising or you know, business as usual fundraising. And that's probably an even bigger one that I would suggest is something that fundraising leaders need to appreciate is that their ability to plan for a capital campaign is directly related to how they are traveling with their annual fundraising program. If they are ahead of budget, if they're at budget or if they're behind budget and it directly impacts the amount of time that they can dedicate to pre campaign planning. So there's a few things that I call out as a pattern that I speak to in the book. It's interesting because you are almost think them as quite separate things, but it's obvious when you say it like they must feed so much into them your business as usual, your regular fundraising. And you talk about that, you talk about this idea of a plan A where it's you know, whether you actually even need this capital campaign at all. And I feel like you're talking yourself out of work here Mark, but what it was maybe you can unpack that plan A with me. Yeah, a plan A is something that kind of materialized very early on in my capital campaign career. And essentially as your listeners will know and your viewers will know it's all about raising the most amount of money from the fewest number of sources in the quickest period of time. And so it's the capital campaign sort of definition and it starts with a feasibility study. And so when clients bring me on board, I'm looking for that plan A, what could we do that raises the most amount of money from the fewest people in the quickest period of time. And so feasibility studies are times in which to think big, they're hypotheticals, they're planning, they're testing. And so you're not meant to have all of the answers, that's why you're engaging your donors and government trust and foundations because you're testing a hypothesis, you're testing your grand vision. And so for me, plan A is in its expressed tangibly, can give you some examples very early on in my career. here. There was a small charity called the New South Wales Wheelchair Sports Association and they wanted to raise a modest sum by today's standards. It was half a million dollars, but it was their first foray into capital fundraising, major gift fundraising. And so it was brought on board and we were working with, you know, a board and we were working with volunteers. And the CEO at the time, he identified a donor, he thought could give the entire thing if so motivated. So we went and saw that donor and his family foundation presented to them and sure enough the donor gave the entire amount. And so we went on, of course, to introduce a stretch target and move beyond that $500,000. But it's not about the money, it's about more the opportunity. And that opportunity was there with him. And so that was very early on in my career. And then fast forward a couple of years later, I was doing a $20 million campaign for children's hospital. And that was achieved in just three gifts. Because we looked for a plan A. And don't get me wrong when I, that was very much a team effort. When I say we looked for a team, we looked for a plan A, it was very much volunteers, the leadership of the hospital, the leaders of the campaign. They were responsible for that. I simply helped orchestrate an opportunity. So it's not about the dollars, it's more about the opportunity. And then, you know, everybody's got a fun story to tell. And my most recent plan A manifesting itself in this way was again, a bigger number. It was 90 million this time. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy how the numbers are going up and up and up and they're only going higher and higher around the world. But that opportunity was doing it for a science organization who wanted to redevelop a building. And they too had identified literally a billionaire. And so the CEO, the board chair, wrote away to the billionaire asking for this person to take a meeting, the person did. The three of us went off to see this billionaire. And so there we are sitting, you know, 45 stories up, overlooking the Sydney Opera House and the Harbor Bridge, gorgeous Sydney Harbor artwork on the wall. And you can imagine the sort of scene. And there came a moment in the conversation where we designed it such to say to the donor, hypothetically speaking, if we had half of this money, would you consider giving us the other half? And you know, for anybody's been in major gift fundraising, you know, for like the moment that you that leaves your lips and you're waiting for the reply is an eternity. It's only a couple of seconds, but it is an eternity. And so we're sitting there with Bated Breath for a couple of seconds. It seems like an eternity. And the person says, yeah, I'd consider it. And of course, we're over the moon. We ended the meeting fairly quickly because we've achieved what it was. Thanked him for his time. And I still remember the three of us, the CEO, the board chair, and myself going down in the lift, and we were giggling like school children at the possibility that this could be achieved so early in the piece. The second half of that was that the CEO of that science organization had to go to the minister and say, Hey, minister, same proposition. If we had half the money, would you consider doing that? Well, remember the story I said it was 2019. You remember what happened in early 2020? Well, I haven't been there. I've blocked it out of my memory. COVID. No, we're not allowed to talk about that anymore. Well, so COVID blew it all up. And obviously the world had much greater things to think about at that point, including a government minister. So it blew itself up. But the point I'm making in these stories is not about the dollars. It's more about the opportunity. And I haven't in 30 years, I have not seen an organization large or small that doesn't have a plan A opportunity. And I guess, you know, saying another way, Australians believe, you know, you've got to be in it to win it. So you've got to think about trying it. Is it likely to happen? No, probably not. But you've got to give it a go. And I guess I've got opportunities come out of those explorations as well. But I think there's a really interesting lesson in there because often when, you know, if you're a small charity listener, so you're an organization who who's looking at doing perhaps your first capital campaign, it's easy to compare yourself to what you see out there. And you hear the noisy campaigns. You hear these big celebrity endorsements and stuff. And you you you almost strive to that. Or you think that's what a capital campaign is. But I think one of the things I like about your book is it really on a very practical level. It shows the reality behind these capital campaigns, things like that plan A. And your book you've you've broken it up into like 12 months before and six months before and three months for really kind of showing the practicalities of it, which I find quite rare in fundraising. So I do I do I genuinely recommend this and people can find this book at Hillbomb Press or publishing this. So I'll include a link to that. So I go on, yeah, please. Yes, I mean, you mentioned a good point at practical sort of things. And so that's when I hope the book speaks to. It's a lot of practical advice and practical things to do. For example, one of the things that I suggest doing, and this is again, doesn't matter whether you're in a smaller community or you're in a large metropolis, there's a thing an exercise that I call the rich streets exercise. And so if I were to ask you, you know, for where you're based, what are the streets or the suburbs areas of the city in which the affluent live, you would know those off the top of your head. And so in the year leading up to a capital campaign, one of the things I get people to do is to look at their database and forget about how much money a donor is giving just simply look at geography. Find every donor, lapsed or not, who lives in what you would consider an affluent area in your city, your town, your area and treat them like a major donor for a year in that year leading up to the capital campaign. And I did this exercise. I remember I got on me email during, while I was writing the book, from a woman that works for a canteen, a youth cancer agency here in here in Australia. And she performed the exercise and their nationwide as a charity. And she called something like a 180 hits from her database in people that, you know, may have been giving modest amounts of money, not major donor level by that organization's standard. But they were giving to her, and they were in an area where from a geography point of view, they probably have capacity greater than what they were giving. In the lead up to a capital campaign, you need as many opportunities like that as possible. So the book, I hope, has lots of little exercises like that and simply dig into. And again, it goes back to being at budget, ahead of budget or behind budget. Simple things that if you are behind budget, and it's difficult because you're looking quarter to quarter those income targets, and it's kind of hard to step away from the challenges of that. That's a simple exercise that shouldn't be difficult, that at least you can plug in and have the data back fairly quickly. So it's trying to give people a template or a roadmap that they can follow that meets those fundraising leaders where they are. If they're ahead of budget, you've got time to do things like that. But if you're behind budget, you need to really focus your attention on where you think the yield will be from your efforts. And so hopefully the book speaks to some of that for the readers. Yeah, I think it does. And I think it kind of makes you take these capital campaigns more seriously. But I suppose from me who is less, the barless experience, you know, this is not an area that I really worked in in my fundraising days. But it's like, it makes it show how intricate it is, how many elements to it, how many practical things you can actually do. And I think that's one of the challenges I hear from fundraisers is perhaps their board and their organization and the CEO may be not taking this seriously. You know, they think that it's just announcing it and the money comes in or, you know, if the need is there, that the money should just come in and go ask Bono, go ask, you know, Bill Gates, whatever. But you've actually broken this up into a way to take it seriously. So I mean, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that because this is a big thing we get from fundraisers who don't feel supported or don't feel like the powers that be take it seriously. I suppose in the area that you work in and the experience you've had, what's been your experience with getting buy-in from the rest of the organization? Yeah, it's a very real challenge for fundraising leaders. Like you, a common refrain I hear after presenting to a board is a fundraising leader saying I've been saying this for two years. And so it is an unfortunate situation where a subject matter expert is sitting in house in the fundraising leader. But for whatever reason the board just it's diverse to that outside expertise. And so it is a real challenge. I feel for fundraising leaders when when you do that. It's I'm reminded of that Peter Drucker phrase that when you consultant, you know, what is it? When a consultant will tell you the time they'll borrow your watch and tell you what time it is. It's sort of that idea. But I think for what I would recommend and what I speak to in the book is for fundraising leaders to really lay out the enormity of the task. And I think that has a way of focusing the mind. When you start talking about the time allocation required for a CEO, it's not unrealistic to think a CEO could be spending up to a day a week in the year leading up to a capital campaign on some pre-campaign activities, whether it's engaging government or some of those bigger donors, then you've got board chairs. And it's not unreasonable for them to be spending half a day a week again involved in some capital campaign pre-campaign activities, all of which are designed to influence the findings of a feasibility study. And so the time allocation is certainly one. And then the next thing I would suggest is when you start talking money with your board and investment. And that does have a way of focusing a board attention on the issue. Because fundraising leaders should be very, very upfront and very aggressive. With the investment required to succeed. You want to design a capital campaign that has a budget that meets it. You don't want to be designing a campaign that works to a budget. It's what do we need? And the good folks at Capital Campaign Pro, they have a Capital Campaign budget calculator. And you can plug in your details of your campaign and they will spit out a kind of preliminary budget. And so that has a very good way of focusing people's attention because it's a tool. Again, a very real tool. If you're behind budget, all you have to do is jump on to this website, plug in your dollar amounts and it'll spit out a sort of line item budget for you that of course won't cover everything, but we'll cover some things. And so I guess again pointing back to my book is not all about me pontificating my 30 years alone. It's drawing the expertise from globally renowned sources and sharing it in a coherent way that's mapped out, like you say, 12 months, nine months, six months, three months, that meets fundraising leaders where they are in their in their planning. And I guess it really adds legitimacy to what the funder raised through saying, I mean, I know it can be hard for fundraisers to feel heard or to get their ideas across. And I think things like your book, things like that Capital Campaign Pro tool, you mentioned, sound great. But even getting an outside consultant and or getting an outside voice in to reiterate what you're saying, it's just about, I suppose, adding legitimacy to what the fundraisers say in so that these people take it seriously. It's tough though, isn't it? I mean, what's your sense with what fundraisers are going through at the moment? Are they having a tough time at the moment? I think look, it's difficult sometimes to know. I think large well-resourced organizations are able to wear some of the the challenges a little easier than smaller organizations. And like you say, I've worked with some organizations who it is, you know, just a small team of a handful of fundraisers. And I've worked with organizations where one area of fundraising like direct mail or digital has an entire team or unit assigned to it. And I think it's really about the ability of individuals to meet those challenges in the culture that they find themselves. And that culture is set by the fundraising leaders and the board. And that's where I find a real interesting mix because you have sometimes organizations that are working off the smell of an oily rag. And the culture is fantastic. And then you have other organizations that are very well resourced by industry sort of standards. But the culture is perhaps left-wanting. And so I think it's a real difficult thing to then draw a trend line. But what I would acknowledge is that when you see the issue of burnout, I have seen it and it's real. But I have also seen where some are absorbed from that. And it's not such an issue in some fundraisers' worlds. So it's really up and down sort of challenge. And being a soul fund raiser, as I am in Australia, it's difficult to draw a global sort of conclusion. And so like you, I look to sources to figure it out. One thing is for sure, though. The issues that we face, whether it's disability services or medical research, homelessness, family domestic violence, aging populations, these issues aren't getting necessarily better. It's they're holding steady or getting worse. If we look at homelessness in Australia, that issue is getting worse rather than better. If we look at something like prostate cancer, the survival rates are getting fantastic now. But there's still a way to go. And so I think that's the challenge that we step into as fundraisers is trying to make the world a better place. And sometimes we have to drag the world kicking and screaming towards that. The, I'm curious, a lot of our audience would be solo fundraisers or people in small charities who are maybe listening to this aspirationally, something that they would strive to get into. Is this a realistic thing for small charities? Are capital campaigns a big boy thing or really is this where do you need to be at before you even consider something like this? Look, hopefully it shines through, but I'm an optimist Simon. I, you know, plan A is all about optimism. It's all about thinking big and imagining a world that could be not necessarily operating in the one that is. So I think regardless of size, regardless of the number of donors you have, regardless of how many fundraisers you have, I think every organization can consider a capital campaign and whatever form that looks like. It could be the $500,000 campaign that I mentioned earlier and it could be the $20 million campaign. If you're in a small shop, it's more likely to be towards the, the former rather than the latter. But I think, I think the one thing that is accessible for anyone in fundraising considering a capital campaign, regardless of whether it's an iconic charity or smaller, is that you have the ability to draw evidence to what it is that you want to do. So you have the ability to gather the evidence that is necessary to know whether or not your organization could consider a capital campaign. And the investment in that, even if you get an external consultant in, the investment in that is modest by comparison to the investment required for a capital campaign. And so if somebody is sitting there listening to this and saying, look, we couldn't even afford to get a consultant in to do the work in advance of a capital campaign. Well, then I think you probably already answered your question because if you're unwilling to invest in that small amount, it's highly unlikely that you're going to be able to assume the investment of a capital campaign. But making that investment, I believe, is prudent and practical step towards determining an organization's strategy because in small shops in particular, I have found fundraisers are often under constant pressure from boards and CEOs to say we should do this capital campaign. And a feasibility study provides the evidence to arm that fundraising leader with a confident conversation with the board and the CEO saying, we have gone out with independent advice and here are the results. And no, maybe they lend itself to having a campaign or maybe they don't. And there's investment required to get you to a point where you could do that. In any case, it serves the fundraising leader's interests. And so a feasibility study is like you said, it's tied in so many levels to the organization and its people. Yeah, I mean, you've been conscious of time, but you've mentioned feasibility studies a few times throughout our chat. And I mean, I don't think I need to ask you whether you think they're a worthwhile exercise or not. But I suppose why do some people not see them as a useful exercise? What would you say to those people? Why isn't it kind of a standard thing to do? Yeah, look, I must admit, I am perplexed why there's debate still exists in your fundraisers. For decades, the world over, it has been industry accepted that a fundraising feasibility study in advance of a capital campaign is a prudent requirement for the success of any capital campaign with very rare exceptions, I would say. And so let me be perfectly clear to answer your question. I wholeheartedly believe in feasibility studies and they should be conducted before a capital campaign. In my experience with my clients and other campaigns I have seen in Australia and around the world, the organizations that conduct a feasibility study in advance of a capital campaign are more successful than the ones who skip that step. Well, I mean, that says it all doesn't, yeah, I think you've won me over. I've got a curve for question here because it's just popped into my head and I'm curious. So, sorry to just change. But I'm curious how AI is affecting your role and the work that you do specifically. How does AI feed into it? Yeah, it's a great question and it's such an interesting topic right now. I must have been, I'm on a learning curve around AI. Yeah, both in terms of practicality of how to use it and how to reform, sorry, refine your searches and your queries that you put to it. But yes, it's definitely going to impact fundraising and it's going to impact consultancy. So if I took fundraising first, you know, the obvious one is prospect research. If you're in a small shop, for example, it is so easy when you're sitting in the back of a taxi or a Uber heading towards a donor meeting to just chat GPT a name. Obviously, you have to be careful what comes back as a response. But the ability to prospect research at scale for a small shop is just enormously lifted. And then if you look at consultancy, it's going to be really interesting to see how charities use AI to start the process of capital campaign planning because if they do it effectively, you could short-cut external consultancy support by potentially months and months. So as it relates to me myself, yeah, I would shift the way in which I would offer my services because I would recognize how much uplift AI could support an organization rather than myself doing it. And then there are other organizations which are taking perhaps a less mature approach to the use of AI. And so they will require on that human element. And I think that human element is the last thing that we are all grappling with of how much do we lean into AI on it versus the horror stories we could hear back of what comes out if you don't properly prompt it. Yeah, 100%. I mean, there's so much room for problems. And I do think as well, AI is kind of based on the past and data and generalizations and averages and things like this. So it really is like, I do think that one to one, that human, that unique thinking is always going to be needed. And I think that's one of the things I like about here. And you speak Mark and your book is it really kind of humanizes it. And it's very realistic about what fun raises are actually going through, which I find sometimes these guides and these books struggle to get. But I think there's something that you do very well is you've clearly worked with a wide range of people who've had very unique challenges that you've addressed with them. And I think it's great. I think it's great. Thank you. Look, like I said, I'm drawing upon best practice that's occurred and sometimes not so great practice that's occurred so that we can avoid those kind of pitfalls in the future. But it's been really heartening. The responses I've received back from the book have been very gracious. And I've been very fortunate to like I say draw upon a body of knowledge that I've accumulated. But also we're a generous sector. You know, from everyone from Gail Perry who wrote the forward to my book through to other names that you would you would well know. People are very generous when they found out what I was trying to do and offering it to the sector. They were more than happy to let me cite their work in my own. That's amazing. Yeah, and I highly recommend this. I mean, for me, it's almost like an essential handbook now. If you're running a capital campaign or thinking and running a capital campaign, it's just that dog-aid book that's going to be on your desk 12 months out, six months out, three months out. Like you're literally just going to be dipping in as you run it. So I think that's exactly what we need more of in the sector. And congratulations again Mark. It's great. Thank you. There is in case anyone's listening and they have run out of time to plan methodically, I have included in the book a in case of emergency break glass section. And so if you run out of time, there are sort of a top, you know, six or eight things to do as a break glass. So it's there if you need it. Hopefully you don't, but it is there if you need it. And to be honest, it sounds like it's going to be the most red part of the book, unfortunately, the way we work. Mark, that's it. It's just been so nice to talk to you. For people who want to find out more, we're obviously going to link to the book with Hillborne Press so that people can find out. I'll say the title again. I have to read it because I don't know if I have. But the book is called One Year Before Your Capital Campaign, a 12-month guide to pre-campaign success. So we'll make sure we link to that. But Mark, where is the best place to find you? Where is the best more to learn about yourself and your work, social venture consultants? Look, best thing is just simply LinkedIn, you know, send me a message on LinkedIn if you want to get together. More than happy to reach out and talk to people if they wish, but otherwise civil sector press are publishing the book and I'm very grateful for them. And the US launches at AFP icon in San Diego in a few weeks time. And so if anybody listening is heading there, more than happy to meet face-to-face. Absolutely. Go see Mark speak at AFP icon in San Diego if you're going to be there. And I imagine you're a huge LinkedIn fan. Are you Mark? As a campaign, a capital campaign guy, LinkedIn must be very prevalent in your role. It is. It's gotten much more prevalent over the last number of years, as like you said, AI. And then I'm on Instagram as well, but that's a bit of fun that's me, you know, playing with my dogs or playing baseball or doing something silly. So happy to connect with people on that one too. Amazing. We like dogs. That's it. All right Mark, best of luck on the rest of your book tour, best of luck at icon and best of luck is as more and more and more people pick up the book. Highly recommended again. So lovely to see you. Thanks Simon and thanks fundraising everywhere. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And thank you all for listening. This has been the fundraising everywhere podcast. My name is Simon Scriber. Lovely to be your host again today and as always, lovely to be still around with you. So we'll see you again and for the latest events, but everything coming up then do check out fundraisingevera.com. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the fundraising everywhere podcast. If you're enjoying this podcast, why not share it with a fundraising friend? And if you would like to give us a little like or subscribe, it really helps more fundraisers that you find us. Thank you so much. See you next time.