The Wonderful World of Dani Donovan

Speaker 1 Hello, and welcome to dr. Halliwell's Wonderful World of different. I'm Ned Howell, and I'm really delighted to welcome my guest. This week, the Glorious gracious. Danny Donovan. Danny is a Creator whose Tick-Tock videos and illustrations help those with ADHD understand themselves and feel validated her first infographic in 2019. About eighty HD storytelling went viral with over get this 100 million views that's astounding and since then her content has become more and more popular for very good reason. She was chosen as closing speaker for the 2021 International ADHD conference. And her work has been featured in many Publications from The New York Times to the BBC, to PBS. And now here Here on this podcast, welcome. And I can't tell you how happy I am to have. You welcome. Danny Donovan. Speaker 2 Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited just to be here, big fan of yours. So it means a lot that you're a fan of mine. Speaker 1 Sure. I sure am, I sure? I'm, well, let me ask you. So, all of a sudden here you are chugging along, you know, being creative being a TD, but, you know, not not all that famous and suddenly you get thousands and thousands and Thousands of use for a infographic that I had assumed you put together on your kitchen table, you know, doodling away and but it really struck a nerve and it's fantastic. Any of you who want to go, look at it. It's about eighty eight. Eighty HD storytelling and she shows this the normal way person beginning in, tell a story, The ATD way and you go all over Telangana and Speaker 2 three-story prologue. Speaker 1 The what was that like for you son? Only, you know, what are you were in your late 20s? When this happens and you suddenly, you're Speaker 2 famous. It was, it was pretty surreal because so, it did start as an inside joke with some some co-workers to give my own pre Story prologue, where I had been start. I'd been working at Gallup for about two months and I heard my co-workers, talking about therapy, and I just never heard anyone friends included, talk about therapy openly. So I felt comfortable. Of opening up about my ADHD with them. And I was like, I have ADHD and they go. Yeah, it was not surprising. I'm like, what does that mean? But we, you know, kind of I started to be a little bit more self aware of my Tendencies and I used to just apologize for talking too long all the time. They're like, it's okay. It's kind of par for the course at this point. And so I made that infographic and send it to my friend. And she goes, oh my gosh, this is so you look, I know I made it and at the the time, you know, I have the thought to put like my name like a watermark on it. And I thought to myself that feels full, you know, like I'm full of myself who's gonna steal this who you know, and I didn't, I like made a choice to not put it on there, having no idea. It would go viral, but the viral one. It actually a lot of people cropped off the ADHD part and they put how a normal person tells the story and how I tell a story and that was, I think really difficult for a lot of people. The ADHD community that was kind of like there wasn't a huge. I was a community, especially on like Twitter at the time that had finally felt like content was being made for them. And now, people were kind of trying to like erase it and make it a bit more applicable to the masses. So it was, it was wild. Definitely. And I think it would have been even Wilder if my name had been on it, but even up to this point, like I'm really grateful but it still Kind of doesn't feel real. Sometimes. Speaker 1 It's been. What about two years now? Speaker 2 Yes. That was December 2018. So, three years, I think and I've been doing this full time. I was able to leave my gut job at Gallup and start doing this full-time March 2020, which you know was just a great time to just leave my job. But yeah, it's turned out turned out well, so I never thought I'd be doing this. I was a graphic designer and illustrator for forever. And now my Comics are like very simple basic like stick people and infographics and I'm like, I have a history of like in-depth, illustration and branding design and like no one would know, Speaker 1 but you, you disobeyed the old conventional wisdom of don't give up your day Speaker 2 job. Yes. Well, it was because of that patreon because with with patreon people are able to go on, you know, and give three dollars a month and support. Tests and creators and it was a that adds up. But the thing that I was really worried about with a platform like that was that typically the 2 different tears, you have to kind of like, give perks to people and I'm like, I have ADHD, like, I'm not going to consistently be making perks and so one of them is just like early access to comics and so like as I make a comic, I'll post it here first, and then eventually I'll get around to posting elsewhere and US ath deers are not known for our It's so I think that but then I don't have to make, you know, extra work. So it was just a really great thing to be able to see those numbers go up to the point that I kind of looked at it. I'm like, it's going to be tight, but I could pay my bills, like I could pay my bills with this. I gotta I got to make the leap and again I it was at the end of my last day was February, 28th of 2020. And then that, you know, pandemic started to hit and I was like, oh my gosh, what did I do? And at the same time, it's like, well, I'm glad I left then. Cuz I think it would have been harder to pull the trigger and, and make that jump. If I was, you know, even more afraid. So it's the time I worked outside Speaker 1 the husband, correct? Yes, and we on board with Speaker 2 this, was he? Yes, he was so supportive. He has ADHD to and so he he's kind of my was a beta tester, when it comes to my content, where I show it to him and actually my first comic, I showed it to him and he had made a comment that it was like, he kept getting lost over this one area. And so I I looked at it again and added some notches and made it more easily, you know, readable and accessible and so being able to have someone with ADHD to tell me. Yes this hits or this is confusing. I think been really helpful for my Speaker 1 work. Do you have a child? Speaker 2 I have a stepson Colin. He is eight suspected ADHD and bit just a tiny version of Josh. Speaker 1 Well, that's wonderful. So three of you and Speaker 2 yes, it's not boring. Speaker 1 That's really pretty and you told me that you're doing this from an Airbnb, because you're finishing up a book. You can you tell us about the Speaker 2 book. Yes. The book is called the anti planner how to get shit done. When you don't feel like it. And so there's, there's some information on anti-siphon planner.com that I'll kind of breathe through, it really fast. It's made for people like me. Who really like the idea of like sitting down and being productive. But like planners just never work out, right? I buy a planner, I use it for a little bit. I miss a couple pages and then I feel like a failure and I get so embarrassed and ashamed about the blank pages that I just stopped using it and you know shove it to the side and so I have all these abandoned planners and regular to do list get boring. And so it was sort of this idea of how can I make a planner that feels like an understanding helpful friend who's been There and less of this like judgmental strict rule following, you know person that like it kind of makes you feel bad about yourself, even though they have good intentions, right? And so I really wanted to focus on making something. That was really like emotions driven. And so when people are feeling stuck or overwhelmed disorganized, you know, unmotivated discouraged, they're able to kind of flip to that section and see these other emotions within that larger emotion and think, okay intimidated. I am feeling intimidated by this task. Want to go to the intimidated section and go check out activities, or games strategies, that all have to do with overcoming that, like, mental hurdle, instead of that sort of like blanket umbrella Solution. That's supposed to work for everything. So it's like 100 activities and it's been such. I started it at the end of July and I'm finishing it this month. So it's also had that ADHD kind of like Rush of. Okay, it's go time. Let's get this all done. Yeah, it's been, it's been great. Speaker 1 That problem is one of the most common that comes up with, with my patients. How do I get shit Speaker 2 done? I don't want to what I want to it's easy and I just sit down and do it and I forget to, you know, eat and go to the bathroom. It like it's just nothing but that hyper-focus. But when I do, it's really funny because I have printed out version of this that I have had to like, use on myself as I've been working on this book. So it's been great because I'm like testing Own stuff to make sure, you know, does this work? If it doesn't work, why should anyone else try this? And so it's been just an incredibly useful, but sort of as a meta thing to be like using my own content to make myself right more content Speaker 1 to give us, can you give us a sample of a few of your Speaker 2 favorite like exercises? Yeah. So I've got one called like dice roll. That's a stuck section under indecisive, which is kind of like, I have so many things to do, but I can't. Decide what to work on first, right? And it might not even be like a priority thing necessarily. But I have an activity that derives from like a Dungeons & Dragons game mechanic, where you have kind of a 20-sided dice with numbered ranges. And so what you do is you kind of like assign a task, right? So maybe one through five is answer emails and six through 15 is work on my workbook, you know, work on the book 17 and 18 is like do the dishwasher. Then 19, and then 20 is just like video games. So, 20 is always like a fun procrastinating activity. So if you naturally roll a 20, it's like the universe is giving you permission to procrastinate, but, like, whatever if an activity, or a task is important, you like make that range whiter. So your probability of like rolling, it is higher, but it gives people that you roll the dice and it's like and then you write down what your result is. And like that's it, the universe picked for you. Don't get to roll again. You don't get to argue. And you Circle it and like just the process of doing that and deciding sitting down and deciding. I am going to do this activity, makes it so much more like likely. And so this whole book really isn't about. It's not made for daily. Use, there's no calendars, there's no dates. And so and there's such variety that it's meant to be used as sort of an emergency kit, right? Of a bust this out. When you're feeling like, oh my gosh, why can't I get, you know, shit done. And so if I tell people, I'm You forget about it in a box for three years. It's still going to be just as relevant. Like, it's not going to be this outdated three-year-old thing that you can't use anymore. So Speaker 1 I already want to get the book. How. Yeah, Speaker 2 so it's open right now for for pre-orders. Again, at anti Dash. Planner.com or anti hyphen, planner. I should probably get the other one to anyways, and so yeah, there's pre-orders. The actual book itself will be released end of March. 20, 22, Because like I mentioned, I'm finalizing content this month, but it's ring bound so you don't have to like hold a workbook open and try to write in it and it's got tabs and it as a graphic designer I self-published because I'm like, I really want like full creative control over making this but it's got a bunch of my comics in it. It's got a bunch of original illustrations and flowcharts. And it's I'm hoping people really like it a lot. Everyone I tell is there like I need that like you should get it Speaker 1 if they Googled any Donovan, will they come to Speaker 2 us? If they, if you Google, Danny Donovan, you'll come to my, oh, you come to my main website and then up in the menu. There's one that says anti Speaker 1 planner. It's absolutely brilliant and Speaker 2 thank you. So yeah, I'm excited. Anyway, Speaker 1 that is fantastic. Well, you know, the biggest undiagnosed group of ADHD or adult women. So you're you're leading a lot of women. I'm sure who don't even know anything about this that. How did your life change? When you discovered you had this condition? Speaker 2 Hang on one second, one, last bullet point on the other, on the inside player, which was just that. As far as people. This was not made just for people with ADHD. Like, it doesn't say tht on the front, but all of the illustrations in comics, that still say that I have in there that say, no on 8 HD 8 HD on like, I'm not going to erase that and try to make it accessible for everybody. But at the beginning, I plan on, you know, having a thing that says, if you relate to all of this content on like a level on another level, You're realizing that you struggle with things are having such a severe negative impact on your life and multiple areas. It's worth it to talk to a doctor or mental health professional. This is not a diagnostic tool but like you can talk to someone. I have a feeling that they're going to be people who buy this, who don't realize they have ADHD who are going to be able to look through the content and, you know, cry and and hopefully get some diagnosis going in there. Speaker 1 At the same time. There are people who can't get shit done, who don't have any exactly exactly. Oh, yeah. Speaker 2 That's what I try to tell people. I'm like if you're crying while you watch my content, maybe you should talk to somebody. But anyways, yes, so okay. Can you ask the question again? I'm sorry. I went on a site agent Speaker 1 painful. What's the painful part of this condition for you? Speaker 2 Oh the painful part of having ADHD. Definitely? For me comes down to not being able to again, get myself to do those things that I won't want to do like people. From the outside. It looks like I don't want to or it looks like I don't care enough or people think I'm doing it on purpose and in reality. It's I think about this all the time and half the time I'm thinking about it for longer than it would take me to just like do the thing. And I'll get so frustrated with myself because I want it so bad and I talked about doing it so much. And, and it just breaks my heart that I feel like, I don't have control over myself, right? I feel like I've got Ntv's going on at once. Right? And I don't have the remote and so just really having that element of acting in ways that are against my own self-interest and knowing that that's happening and screaming at myself and it's just not enough, and that's who I'm going to cry now, it's fine. Anyway it Marshall just regulation is also super fun, Speaker 1 but knowing what you want to do and not being able to do it. Yeah, it's Speaker 2 people. Who don't get it. Don't get it. And that's another frustrating thing. And what I try to show with my comics, where I have ADHD and not ADHD, kind of comparison. Why is because it also gives people who don't have ADHD something to relate to, right? They relate in the go. Yeah, that is kind of how it is for me, and then they see the other one. They're like, whoa. Oh, okay. They look that makes sense. I can, I can see the difference, even if it's not necessarily perfect. They are able to see like This is what it feels like. Like no, you might not have all of your poop in a group all of the time. But like every, you know, everybody procrastinate sometimes sort of thing. But in reality, the amount of just inner chaos is happening. Constantly is able to be visually expressed and I think visual communication is a really powerful way to get the, you know, those metaphors across and that communication across. And so it's just really fun to be able to have people message me and say, I Stand my spouse so much better. I feel or I feel really guilty getting on my kids, case about a lot of this, but I know. Moving forward. What's going on. Thank you for giving me tools to like understand them. And that's just a really validating and rewarding aspect of making this kind of Speaker 1 work. Yeah, you used to praise that. I haven't heard before. I'm going to adopt it have all your poop in Speaker 2 a group. Speaker 1 Very, very descriptive Speaker 2 Midwestern Speaker 1 used another phrase that some people may not have heard of emotional dysregulation, can be what that is. Speaker 2 Oh, it's as a super fun. It's sort of like right on my dials feel like they're dialled up to 11 or 12 or 15. And sometimes in a way that are just really like flash emotions where I'm so angry, and so frustrated. And then like, five minutes. It's later. I like forgotten about it already, but then, there are other times where something happens, right? Where real, or perceived rejection, and I'm going to sit here and stew and replay every, you know, kind of conversation and maybe ruminate about it and make myself cry and like feel, oh, just feel everything. So deeply. So, like the highs are really high but like the lows are really low and so that can play, you know, take a toll on me as a person because you never eat kind of never I know what you're going to get and there are many days where I'm just up and down, and in the middle. It's people who are a little bit, say, more stable in regulating their emotions. Don't have this intensity. That honestly does also affect my ability to get stuff done. I have an accommodation that I figured out at work when I was at Gallup, where my boss would always schedule quick chat meetings for 30 minutes and if it was on a Friday, A I just sit there and go. I'm about to get fired or I'm about to get in trouble. What did I do? I'm sitting this meetings in two hours. I'm sitting here, not being productive for two hours running through my head of what I possibly could have done to get myself in trouble and it turned out, it was just a project kickoff, but I had to tell him, I sat him down one time and said, hey, could you not call these quick chat. Like, could you call them project? Kickoff? Could we call it something else? Because every time I see quick chat, I think I'm in trouble. And he goes, why would you think that? Act like a lifetime of experiences but like he did not get it because when that someone does that to him, he does not have this. Knee-jerk reaction of I'm in trouble. And now I'm not going to be productive for two hours because my emotions are all over the place. Speaker 1 So true explaining this to people who don't have it. It's almost they, it's almost like they think you're making some lame. Excuse. Yes. Yes, it's not. Speaker 2 I've had people now. I have so many friends. Ends. So many friends who, since I started making content, and I've got two, doctors and got diagnosed, which I think we just find each other sometimes, but I have had people who were hesitant to even go. Talk to someone about ADHD and something. I heard a lot was, what if I do, it turns out, I do have it. I'm afraid that I'm just gonna like, use it as an excuse. Like, I hear it from people who suspect that they might have. It more people who are like, what if I'm just lazy. Like what if I think I do and I go to talk to someone and I And I don't and I find out right that. I'm just that, I'm quote, just lazy. And or people who even do have a diagnosis, they doubt the diagnosis. And I've told people before, I'm like, I've had days where I wondering if I'm just, you know, making this up. And then I'm like, I make eighty HD content. What am I even doing? You know? Speaker 1 You know, you said somewhere my Tendencies are two sides of the same coin. You don't get one and never have to deal with the other learning to accept and love who I am without trying to fix me is the best. Most helpful thing. Someone can do. Can you, can you say a little bit more about Speaker 2 that? So I have this comic called two sides, same coin, you know, and there's the it's like a little three-part Venn diagram, that's got hyperactive-impulsive and inattentive on it, right? And Shows kind of the overlap of what those look like in reality. Because each of those kind of traits are things that affect me in different ways. I'm like, I'm stalling because I'm pulling it up. Okay. I got it where, you know, inattentive and hyperactive might lead to being, you know, a little bit was a more impatient. When I'm like, trying to find something that like is going to capture my attention. But I'm really impatient about it or being inattentive and impulsive being, you know, procrastinating or hyperactive and impulsive being loud and interrupt e, and the middle being like hates being bored. But on the flip side, right? Being distracted, kind of makes me a dreamer and being fidgety. I'm just energetic and full of energy and impulsive means that maybe I'm like able to take risks that others might not but I'm, you know, yes, and patients can be difficult. But I also means that I like, I'm a I'm really good at activating projects and being loud means. I'm also enthusiastic and interesting to listen to. So there really are different. Facets that come along with these traits and for every ceiling, you know, there is a basement. But there are some people who again, I kind of mentioned think that we just have like bonus features like we're able to do all of the things that neurotypicals do and then we also get some, you know, added out of the box thinking and extra, you know, talented some areas. Has so it's frustrating because it's like, well, you, you're so excellent. All of these things. Why can't you turn in your timesheet on time? Why do I always have to remind you? I'm like, I never forget about my timesheet. I Can emails reminding me about my time. She like forgetting is it the issue? It's the taking of the times, you know, it's that they don't always get it Speaker 1 and understand the difference between won't and can't, yes. Not that we won't turn into sheets on time. We can't, you know, and then you're so right. Every - has a flip side of a positive that, you know, the Three core symptoms, distractibility, impulsivity, and restlessness. The flip side of distractibility is curiosity, you know, on the flip side of impulsivity is creativity, you know, and the flip side of Brussels synthesis energy, you know, so they all it's a bunch of paired opposites, isn't it? Speaker 2 And it's and that goes with a lot of even nerves a neurotypical traits, right? Like being disciplined is something that I look at people and Like, oh, I wish I was, I wish I was disciplined. I wish I was able to just do the things that I wanted to like. That. Would don't get me wrong. That would be awesome. But on the same side, I see people who have those traits, who do not have as much fun as I have. Like, I have a fun life, I do stuff because I want to do it. Yes, I could take the time and like finally unpack the boxes that have been in the basement since we moved in two years ago, or I could go play magic with my friends for like see, you know, eight hours. That sounds more fun. I'm going to I'm going to do that. And so yes. Not get to all the like, quote-unquote, like adults things. But like I'm doing a lot of fun things that I want to do. Sometimes. Tell Speaker 1 me what is playing Magic 48 hours and tail. Speaker 2 Oh Magic, the Gathering cards. It's my newest, my newest and my long list of abandon, you know, graveyards of hobbies, but it's a card game and its really like strategic. And I'm playing with people who have been playing for 10-15 years as I'm Speaker 1 going to discover the so it's Speaker 2 a cloud. It's, it is a card. It's a trading card game. It's sort of like reading card. Yeah, but it's really fun. It's kind of intense, but there's a steep learning curve. Anyways, I could go about it all day, but I've got this graphic called my graveyard of abandoned hobbies. And it's got, you know, a bunch of art things and a bunch of stuff that I going back to the impulsivity of. Oh, I had an idea or I saw this YouTube video and now I'm going to do this research rabbit hole and I'm going to buy every single thing that I might possibly. Will you need? And then I'm going to get so overwhelmed by the idea of starting. Or I'm going to try once, not be good right away. Say, I died. Maybe later, shove it in a closet, and then feel too guilty to like, look at it again. Speaker 1 So I could, I could talk to you for a long time. You were this bundle of fun, and energy, and creativity, and wisdom, and smarts. And yes, you're quite a deal. It's a, it's real. Ali. It's really remarkable. And I and as a member of the human race, let me thank you for what you've done for all of us. Let alone eighty HD Nation, you know, but you just add a tremendous amount of positive energy and fun and laughter and what the world needs. Now. I can't thank you enough for coming on the wonderful world of different and for all the contributions you're making to the world period, if you want to learn more Google, Danny Donovan, that's probably the easiest way to do it. Right, ahem, that'll bring them to your website, your website. Yep. Speaker 2 Danny is d&i Starbucks. Cups. Have taught me that it's not as easy to spell is might think. But, yeah, I've got a lot of stuff on there and then I'm Ed that at Danny Donovan on Twitter. Instagram, Tick-Tock. I we talked about my Comics a lot on here, but I'm best known on Tick-Tock technically that we have. We have fun. Speaker 1 Yes. Well, Thank you so much. Thank you so much, and you're a very special woman and the special person. Thanks a million for all of us who are your fans, Speaker 2 and thank you for having Speaker 1 me. Take care.