The Woman Who Created Carrie Bradshaw: Candace Bushnell Gets Real on Booked, Blonde & Busy

- Everybody was pretty much partying fueled by, I mean, really cocaine and cigarettes. And they said, "You have to wear spanks." I was like, "I'm not wearing spanks." I hate sex in the city. It's not like the TV show, ha, ha, ha. So then the question is, "Did I have sex with him?" And then the answer is, "No." Because I had sex with this Calvin Klein underwear model. - Hi, Angels. Welcome back to Booked Blonde. I'm busy because hot girls read, and my name is Olivia Ponson, and today we're joined by one of the hottest girls to exist. We are interviewing Miss Candace Bushnell, and she is the author of Sex and the City. Sex and the City's iconic. She's iconic, so let's get into it. Candace, welcome to Booked Blonde and Busy. - I'm so thrilled to be here, too. So we're starting with the beverage of the day. Obviously, in Carrie Bradshaw fashion, we had to do a cosmopolitan because, well, I feel like she always has a drink in her hand, and I feel like this was the most embodiment of her. - Yes. - So this is a virgin one because it is like 10 o'clock in the morning right now, but this is our little cosmopolitan, I'm gonna give it a little taste test. - I love it. - Yep, cranberry juice and sprite. - It's great. - Taste just like it. - Yes, okay. Well, do you actually like cosmopolitan's? - I do. - Really? Was that your drink choice? - Well, I always drank vodka, cranberries, but then I was at this bar with Bret Easton LS, and I feel like it was in probably 1993, and he said, oh, this cosmopolitan, it's the newest drink. And then we were always drinking cosmopolitan's, but they had to be made with fresh lime juice. That is the key, fresh lime juice. It can't be a little bottled in something. - No, it can't be the, what is it, limes? - Yeah, they have like some little thingy. - Okay. - Bret Easton LS and J-Mac and Ernie were. You know, we always like hung out, went to a lot of clubs. - In the '90s. - Did you guys like, did you guys get inspirational for each other? Like, was it that almost? - I think everybody was really inspired by New York City, and what they were seeing in New York City. And, you know, the social life, I call it social anthropology, which is what I think that the book Sex and the City is, it's really social anthropology. And, you know, just this drive that New Yorkers have for status and how there's such a pecking order in New York City. And, you know, I would say that fashion would be pretty much at the top of that heap in terms of enforcing status. But everybody knows, everybody who lives in New York understands it. Everybody who goes to a party knows like, oh, here's a person of higher status who I'm going to talk to, but they're looking over your shoulder to see who else is of importance who's there. So, and it's really, it's not anything that's new. You know, it was bonfire of the vanities. - Well, that kind of goes right into my first question. You sent me out perfectly because I moved here when I was 19. You moved here when you were 19. You're talking about this order, and I feel like it's still prevalent in going out worlds when I'm going to parties. It's constantly, I would say here, Ann Laws, Angela's almost LA a little bit more, but you're right, it's like this kind of unspoken rule where it's like this person, you know, people kind of revolve their night around if this famous person or it is in the room. But it doesn't even have to be about, fame it could be about money or just the quote-unquote status of it all. So, what was like a night out when you were like 19? Kind of walked me through that. - Well, actually, this is one of the reasons why I do my one woman show. It actually starts when I first came to New York. And actually, I first came to New York when I was 18. - Oh, wow, okay. But I didn't stay, and I decided to move here when I was 19. But like in those days, everybody tried to go to Studio 54. So that was the place to go. And before that, there was a restaurant in 1/5th Avenue. - Okay. - And it was called 1/5th. It was where everybody went. And you went at 10 o'clock at night. And then you went to Studio 54. You really didn't go there before midnight. And then you would be there from midnight to 4am. And then there was this other place called the Mud Club. Mud that people went to that was on White Street. I don't know how I remember that. And God, and there were like, rocks, kind of like rock stars, et cetera, would be there. And it was fun. And so I love asking these types of questions. So you guys don't really have like cell phones, like how we have nowadays. So when you're coordinating these plans, like how would you coordinate them? Or was it a thing like every single Saturday? That was the pipeline. Like you'd start at dinner, then you'd go to Studio 54. And then you'd end up there. Or what was that kind of dynamic between it? In the very late 70s, early 80s, they would hand out cards on like little flyers that were about this big, advertising a new club or a party. And people would go. And so it was really word of mouth. But even then, people would have a schedule. Like on Monday night, you would go to this particular club. Tuesday night, this was the hot place to go. That everybody would go. There was some kind of, it was like an unspoken kind of massing of people. Like they would just kind of know where to go. And then that was the same in the '90s. I remember Brett Easton Ellis. He had a big white board in his apartment. And he would write down all of the things that he had to go to every night. And people would go out pretty much every single night. I think I stayed home one night a month. Holy crap. So when you were going out, this is just a genuine question. Would you seriously party every night? Or was it just more like fun casual? Like you'd go to hang out at a bar, like a lounge? Or was it always something that was very intense and high energy? Well, I mean, everybody was pretty much partying all the time, fuelled by-- I mean, really cocaine and cigarettes. That's crazy. And vodka. But typical night was, you know, I have 20 drinks, holy crap. Like a couple grams of coke. And probably like two packs of cigarettes. Holy crap. That was not an unusual night, yes. And somebody is not. Yes. Yes. I mean, everybody smoked. Yeah. I did not know, in the '90s, I did not know one person who didn't smoke. But it was more common. Because nowadays in New York City, people are quite in restaurants and like lounges, hotels, clubs. They're quite strict about smoking inside. And there's been multiple times where I have some friends who are heavy, heavy smokers. And they just get really at it with the bartenders or the restaurant people, because they'll try lighting up, and they'll be like, no, you need to leave. And then it's like, OK, when we're at a dinner, they step outside every 20 minutes to go and smoke a cigarette. And I'm like, well, why can't we just all do it inside so we can keep on hanging out? Exactly. So it was definitely a different time. And now with social media and the cell phone, there are more things to do at home. You can entertain yourself better at home than you used to be able to. Everybody had a tiny little apartment. There was really no TV. I mean, yes, there was cable, but people were always dealing cable. And just like TV wasn't a big thing. It was like, why? I didn't know anybody who stayed at home and watched TV in the early '90s. I wish I was born in that generation, because sometimes when people on their phones too much, it really bothers me. And I'm like, or when we're at a dinner and everyone's on their phones. I'm like, well, the whole point of us being here is to hang out. So why are we all on our phones? You know what I mean? Well, speaking of social media, obviously, sex in the city, both the book and the TV show, It's all about. meeting strangers and having these just like crazy stories that are happening with them. Do you think that still exists currently like in this day and age or do you think that social media has kind of killed it? Oh, I think it exists 100%. I mean, maybe it's because of the things that I look at on Instagram and TikTok, but my feed is so full of men and women telling their horrendous dating stories and talking about relationships or just a bunch of bunk and you know, which is something that I'd never heard before. I'd never heard women admitting that, you know, maybe a heterosexual relationship with a man is not that great. I noticed this starting about five years ago and you know, women have always told themselves this lie about romance and and men and it's like they have a veil and probably that veil is hormones. Okay, I want to talk about the book because this is published in 1996, right? Yes, it's a beautiful book. It's a bunch of columns that you have written over the years that are just kind of shoved into one beautiful book. Well, actually, it was all of the columns that I wrote in the New York Observer. Yes. So it's really a collection of those columns and what the publisher did was he took all the columns and then he like kind of arranged it, but they were all still the same columns and I did write more after that book was published because they wanted me to, but then some of those stories ended up in a book called Four Blonds. So there was a story about Janie Wilcox, which who was the Victoria's secret model, but it was really more about her, you know, using men to get a house in the Hampton, et cetera. And I would like to say that is still a thing that people do. Yes, this day. Yes, but you know, I do, I think one of the differences between now and then and you know, one of the frustrations in life was that as a woman, you still pretty much needed a guy to in a lot of ways financially survive. And like, yes, you made a little bit of money and you had a nine to five job that you thought was pretty important, but those jobs paid like barely enough to cover the rent. So women still were in this situation of feeling like I need a man you know, financially to provide the things that I can't provide for myself. And that is still true today. I, you know, I wrote another book called Is There Still Sex in the City, which came out in 2019 and I went on a date with this guy. Now I call them the senior age players or sacks. And they are, they all they want to do is have sacks. Really? Yes. It never goes away. This, you know, the man, he's taking you out to dinner because he wants to have sacks. And how old do you think these guys are? They're 75, 80. I mean, there was like a 94-year-old guy who was like, I want you to come to Palm Beach with me. I was like, no. And he said, you can have your own room at first. But eventually you come into my room and I was like, you know, you're really nice and your sharp as a tack. But no, it's not going to happen. No, it's not going to happen. Oh my gosh. But it's just, it's, I guess it's part of the lifeblood. Yeah. I would say. Which I think is, it's cute. It's cute. It's cute. So do you still collect like little slices of story times? Like, do you still write about those stories? Because obviously this, this is all your personal. I don't necessarily, but I am, I mean, I do if I'm writing a book or now I'm working on an adaptation of one of my books, one fifth avenue for a TV series. So we're working on the pilot. And, and you know, last night I went to Carnegie Hall. And it was beautiful. And I wanted to send my writing partner a video of, you know, what it looked like saying, we need to include this. Like, instead of them going to the opera, they should be going to Carnegie Hall. And they should have like boxes. And, you know, there's another scene in a restaurant where it's like the flowers should be huge. And they should have to like look around the flowers because it's comedic. But so, yes, I am. I do still look for a little snippets. How involved are you in like the writing processes? You know, it depends on the project. Okay. And sex in the city, I worked in the writer's room for the first two years, which was kind of a different experience because I'm so used to working by myself. And if you're writing a novel, it's like you are by yourself. There's nobody else who can do it. And you have to, you know, figure out all the, you know, questions yourself. Then on lipstick jungle, I worked on the pilot, like a couple of rounds. And then it didn't, you know, it didn't work out. And then they hired these other two women. And I was like, go and just do it. Yeah, go and do it. And, and then with the carry diaries, I was working on like one fifth avenue. I had like a lot of big writing contracts. So, I didn't want to take the time and, and, you know, work on a script, which is a, which can be a really long process. So it really depends on, you know, the project. This, for some reason, I really want to do it probably because I don't want to write a book because I just, writing a book requires a huge amount of concentration. It's like six, at least six hours a day, six days a week. Maybe actually 10 days in a row. And then you can take a break. And I used to go to my house up in Connecticut. And I was like, really strict. I would be like, I would take like one hour. Maybe I can come over for cocktails, but that's it. Just one hour. And then I would go home and the rest of, you know, pretty much all of my time was taken up in service of this book, like writing it, making notes, reading things to spark the imagination and solve writing problems. So we're talking about this earlier. What's, or I guess who inspired Sex and the City or any other, any of your other books? Nobody. And, and, like, for some reason, well, and I talk about this in my one woman show, when I was eight years old, I had this epiphany moment. Like, and it came to me. I'm going to be a writer. Huh. And I have never veered from that, which I sometimes think is maybe like kind of a dumb thing to do because I've been really single-minded about it. And, you know, even when I didn't have money, I would say, like, oh, it doesn't matter because, you know, I'm going to be a writer. I'm writing. And I felt like I could really live in probably circumstances that most people don't want to live in, because I didn't care. I didn't really see my surroundings. And when you talk, I honestly really see a lot of carry in you. Like, from different standpoints, do you think you put yourself into each of the different? Well, obviously that's in the show. But even in the book, do you think you, like, take little pieces? Did you influence yourself in any parts of it? Or did you write exactly what was happening around you? In Sex and the City, well, there were a couple of chapters that that were fictional because I didn't, I was like, "Ahh, I'm going over." You know, I don't feel like reporting, you know, the story, which is I would have to report that story like every week and a lot of it was gathering people together to talk about a topic. So there were a couple that were fiction, but a lot of it was really things that people said and then it's shaping it. But I think sort of like maybe one of the things that's disturbing about the book to people is that, you know, these are real people who really said these things and these are real attitudes that people have, not like something that sugarcoded that as a novelist, people tend to do that because they don't want their characters to be unlikable. I didn't care about that. Like I had my audience. So this book is way darker than I was going to expect it to be. It's really, it's is dark, definitely. But you know, that's my writing, my writing is dark. And it's the real, it's like the real things that have been like you're saying, like these are real things that real people are saying and as someone that lives in New York City and is like in the industry and is going out with these types of people, sometimes things that people say to me, I'm like, "Holy fuck, I know crap." Like this is insane. You know, it's like people aren't, they're not that nice. Like if you're like, if you're nice here, like I think I'm really nice, I'm like, I don't get invited to anything, you know. I feel like people enjoy the ruckus, people enjoy the drama, people want people around that have this kind of like unapologeticness to them. Yes. And I just can't even like, do you process how big Sex in the City is? No, I really don't. Don't. I don't, I mean, the one thing that I do know is, and but this was years ago because I don't go to clubs anymore. Really? But it used to be like, if I went to a club, I could go up to the bouncer and say, "Hey, I wrote Sex in the City and I could get in." Wow. Did you experience that fame when you were writing your column? Yes. People knew about the column. They knew about me. They were reading, you know, the column was a big hit in the New York Observer. It was written for a very small audience. That's the other thing that I think people need to remember is that, you know, the audience of the New York Observer was maybe 50,000. That was the circulation. Really? It was, it was really small. And then somebody would say, "Well, it's the 50,000 people you want to be reading something." Whatever that means. So it was, and it was very insider. Like people knew who I was writing about. They hung out with them. They were bold-faced names. So it was really, it was a little bit, the New York Observer was a little bit like our school newspaper. But would you, I'm assuming you didn't use the people's like real names? I did not. Okay. No. I didn't. Okay. That's good. That's good at least. A lot of the time. Also, people would come up to me and say, "Well, you write about me." I just saw something in New York magazine, like a flashback to these three super-powerful publicists in, I guess, the late 90s, early 2000s. And it was Lizzie Grubman. Oh, God. This woman named Ali. I never didn't know her last name. And, oh, God. Laura Schriftman. And Ali and Laura Schriftman came up to me. They were 25. And I was writing the column. And they were like, "You have to write about us. Please write about us." Would you ever do that? So I did. I changed their name. And they had like these funny stories. Like it was so much worse being 25 and single than being 35 and single. Really? Yes. I mean, they just had the worst dating adventures. And then one guy brought a baby bunny and put it on one of the girls' couches and it peed on an actual baby bunny. Yes. And that was one of the stories that was in there. I was like, "This is so New York." And it's such a like New York guy kind of thing at that time. And then they ended up in an episode of Sex in the City. It was like Valley of the 20-something girls when they were supposed to go to the Hamptons. It was really Staten Island because I was on the set that day. And I was like, "Why? Why Staten Island? Why not the Hamptons?" It's like, it's too far. It has to be within an hour. Oh my goodness. Okay. So now are you familiar with Book Talk? Where's start there? You know, no, I don't look at it. Okay. Because, and the reason why I don't look at it, it's like, you know, looking at what people write on Amazon. It's like, I don't want to get that feeling of like, "Oh, you hate me. Oh, you hate me." Well, because I want to make an argument because that's kind of how I got into reading. Wasn't necessarily through Book Talk. I'll make this short, but my uncle variant reading. I, you know, read, like I was forced to read when I was in, you know, middle school and high school, but it wasn't like a passion of mine. And then I had COVID in, this was in 2020, I believe. I was locked to my apartment in New York City. I was like, "Can I have nothing better to do? Let me pick up this book." I picked up a book, was obsessed with it. That's boom. How this baby was born. And maybe a year later, I got introduced to Book Talk. And now I want to make an argument because I think majority of like, the kind of like, New York City single girl in the city aesthetic is honestly and transparently inspired by Sex in the City. Do you find that flattering or do you kind of like, like, what's the word, like, not pay attention to it? Oh, I think it's totally flattering. And, and, you know, I don't look at Book Talk because I'm afraid I'm going to see like someone's going to be like, "I hate Sex in the City." And it's not like a TV show. It's like, okay, can you just like take it from, you know, as a wonderful, like, artifact of the time. But I think it's fantastic that people are talking about books and have a passion for books and, and for reading. It's, you know, it's fantastic. And, and also, you know, over the years, so many young women have come up to me and said that, you know, Sex in the City gave them a different way to think or really help them at a difficult time in their life. And that's, to me, that's really the best thing about it is that it's touched so many people's lives in a positive way. But I also think of the themes that you go over within the book and even the show. It's like a lot of girls especially if you live in New York City, you can really, nichely relate to because a lot of the story times you have, like I was talking about earlier, they're very real and they're very prominent in the industry or even if you just live in New York City and you're single. It's like, yeah, you might have a guy that's going to come over and bring a bunny to your house and it's going to pee or a lot of like the mishaps where it's like, I don't know, all the different funny themes that you hit. It's like, yeah, they're very out there, but like you're talking about, you're the only, I mean, author that I've really seen that doesn't make it so like picture perfect, like cookie cutter. It's like, no, this shit actually really happens. Yes, but that, I mean, to me, that's always been one of the most interesting things about New York City is that it's, people come here to make it. You don't come here to be like, oh, I'm going to be a loser. No, people come here to make it. So they're already aspirational and ambitious. And that sets a certain tone. And when New York was really Manhattan, it was like, everybody's on this tiny island. So there was, you know, a real like New York sense of humor. That was very cynical and dark. Like even in the first piece that I wrote, which was called how to act in a disco, there was this, and I have this in my show, like notice the New York City cynicism, if somebody dies, ignore them. And that was, I can't tell you how many people said that to me. They're like, "Oh, don't leave somebody dying to ignore them." Really? Was that like a saying? Yes. Wow. You know, I mean, that was like, that was New York. Of course, that was 40 years ago. 40 or 50 years ago. I'm old. Do you think if you were to write Sex and City now, like currently, how would you write it? Would you still try to publish it like in a magazine, like a column in a specific magazine, or would you do like a sub-stack, or do you think you would post like on book talk? Like, what do you think? How do you think you would arrange it? You know, I don't know. I don't know. I do think that, you know, maybe it would be on social media. But I feel like so many people do that. And when I look at social media, one of the things that I'm always struck by is how amazingly creative and talented people are out there. Like, so many people have like these talents. They can dance. They can, you know, they speak. They write things. They shoot things. It's like, wow. I agree. It's kind of amazing. So, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I, you know, writing worked for me. I mean, I would say for me, like, I feel like if you're good on social media, it's like, it's like a gift. It's like being good, you know, like being good on TV. There's just something about like the way you look that works. Interesting. Well, kind of going back to our conversation earlier with the column of it all, and me asking, if you think that's still prevalent with social media, like, I also think yes with that because I don't have a column, but I, in my world, I have like a TikTok account where I post like story times. And the most random things will happen to me. And when I was younger, I used to be way more transparent on social media in a sense of like crazy that would happen to me. And I'd be like, hey guys, I'm in Barcelona. And this random guy came up to me on a moat pet and asked me out on a date. And I'm going on a date tonight. So I'll keep you updated. Was it like the smartest thing in the world for me to like hop on the back of this guy's moat pet and go on a date with him? No, but I did it because I was 19 and I was like, who cares? And I did that. I actually did that when I was like 37. Okay, so but I think like your version of a column, it's like a lot of women can share that experience, but on TikTok and like you're saying like your for you page is a lot of just like crazy dating stories. And honestly a lot of my free pages that do right now. And I like that. You can kind of see other people's relationships and how they kind of do their dynamics and kind of like apply it to yours. Or you can live by carelessly through them. Yes. Well, I'm always, I mean ever since I was like actually a little kid, I've always been interested in other people's relationships. I've always been interested in like that human interaction and why somebody is with somebody else and and you know, I have all these theories about it, but I've always been interested in it. And and I'm still interested in it to some extent, even though I'm like, I don't think I'm going to do anymore. I don't know if I want to do anymore dating. Like what's the point? So now we're going to switch topics into your one-woman show because you just performed in Paris. How is it like getting on stage and doing that by yourself and explaining your story to other people? Well, it's actually a show that there's like shoes all over the stage and and so it's, it's it's me talking, but it's also I do like little vignettes and like I talk on the phone and so I guess at the beginning, I mean first of all I didn't I had no idea what it was going to be. And we developed it at Bucks County Playhouse and and they said you have to wear spanks. I was like I'm not wearing spanks. And then and you have to have a microphone on your head. I was like like the one that comes here like the one that comes here. The one that comes here. Eventually I got one that comes here that travels like everywhere. But I was like I'm not putting on a mic. Like wow. What? Who am I? What? You know, what am I doing? And they and they said you have to do it. And it's the show is choreographed and we had a director and and it was at one time it was pretty long. I had like costume changes on stage and I did it. I started doing it at the Daryl Roth theater, which is an off Broadway theater. And so it was really something that like it was never in my what's that expression? It was never on my bingo card. That's what you said a lot. You know, I'm you know, I'm going to be on stage and I was when I first did it, I think I was like 62. Wow. So were you nervous your first time? No. That's the thing that's strange about it is that I feel I feel very comfortable on stage and in some ways I feel like, oh, I would do things on stage that I wouldn't do in real life. I'm like that but in front of the camera. It's kind of like a different part of you comes out. Yes. It's like a different like in your body. I like that I like that emotion. I feel like a lot of my friends don't love being in front of the camera and it makes them very anxious and very like kind of curl up into a ball. And I'm like, girl, I shine in front of it. I love it. Yes. A different part of my personality comes out. Exactly. Well, you know what? That's what I think writing is like for me. I feel like I can, you know, sort of do things or, you know, be somebody that you can't be in real life. And for you, it's the camera, which is amazing. And, you know, and then I guess like on stage. What's your favorite part of the show so far? Well, my favorite part is there's one part where there's this game real or not real because there are a lot of things that happened on the TV show that actually happened in my real life but they're better or worse. Can you give us some of those? I want to know. Well, one of them mostly have to do with guys who are very dated. Okay. Like she went out with the senator. Guess what? I went out with the senator, but it was Al Demado. Okay. And my Italian grandmother did love him. But, and you know, we were caught like going to Palm Beach of all places like and this was back in like then late 90s. So it wasn't chic to be going there, but whatever. But he didn't pee on me. So when I saw that in the TV series, I was like, Oh, no. Oh, no. Al Demado, who is actually, he was such a fun person. He was like, he's going to think, everyone's going to think like that's people. So that's not true. So then I'm like, okay, my version's better. And then I don't know if you remember the Calvin Klein underwear model. He was in episode two. So then the question is, did I, did I have sex with him? And then the answer is no, because I had sex with this Calvin Klein underwear model instead. I went to Michael Bergen and his life. So funny. And so how old were you when you were having all these situations? Were you carries age? Or were you younger? I was, I think I was like 33 or 34 when I started writing the column. And then we started doing the show in 19, no, 1997. They shot the pilot. And I think that Sarah Jessica Parker is like six years younger. Okay. But sameish vibes. Well. And then a year later HBO was like, we're going to go to series. So obviously sex in the city is still on HBO. What's it like for people, like Gen Z people to re, or not re discover, but discover sex in the city for the first time since it's been out for almost 30 years, 20, 26, yeah, almost 30 years. What's it like to have like a new generation discovering it. - Well, I think it's great, obviously, and it's fantastic, but it really seems to be a coming of age kind of thing. It's something that, and I noticed like, when the DVDs came out, there was also a group of, you know, they were young women, usually when they go to college, because they're in a dorm, they're making new friends, and it's like, hey, let's watch something together, and they watch Sex in the City, and they relate to it. And it tends to be, I think, eye opening, because it gives them a different perspective on how they can live their lives. Like, they don't have to go and find a guy, you know, maybe they don't have to be under so much pressure to get married and have kids. - 'Cause I, maybe it's okay to be single and have your girlfriends and, you know, be self-actualized. - Which I think is a very, it's a really cute show to watch with your friends, because you see almost like the love dynamic between the four of them, and it's just such, it's an aspirational thing. It's like, everyone wants to have a little friend group like that, and sometimes it's hard with like, you know, everyone's jobs, but I really appreciated that it's like, yes, it follows all their different love lives, but at the core of it, it's like them for, and they're going to a cafe and they're talking shit about this boy or the situation that that's happened or whatnot. If you had to give Gen Z, like a piece of advice and like a dating realm, what would you give them? - Okay, this is so bad, and I've said this so many times, and it's really kind of a joke. I mean, it is a joke, but there's just a part of me that wants to say, don't bother. Like, don't bother, like what are you going to get out of that? And people always say like, what would you say to yourself if you were like in your 20s? And I always say the same thing. What I would have said to myself was, get the money. Like, explore that ambitious side of yourself, that when I was in my 20s, it was no, no, no, no, no. And even the idea of a woman making her own money and buying your own house was, that was like not even a possibility. So those are the things that I would say to myself. And I mean, relationships can be great. The problem is that the wrong relationship can really derail you. And there's so many young women who feel like, oh, I just picked the wrong person. No, that's not true. You don't pick the wrong person. That's what the majority of men are like. That's, I mean, you know, they are, I've been interviewing men for a long time. And one of the things that I know for sure is that on a list of importance, men's list of importance, and women's list of importance is very different. Women will list a relationship as number one importance. Children, my friends, and for a man, the number one thing is, you know, himself, maybe sex, his job, and a relationship, if you're lucky, is number five on the list. And I've always thought, you know, this is one of the inherent problems with relationships is that people have, you know, these two with heterosexual relationships, men and women have rather different goals and different senses of importance. And I think that that makes it a little bit difficult. And I feel like women have changed a lot and men really haven't. No offense to any of the men. You guys are fantastic. I'm sure. No, but I really, I thoroughly agree with this because I think women put, especially in my generation, we feel like men can give us something that we can't give ourselves. But if you take a moment to, like, stand back and be like, well, nowadays, with influencers and with this, like, generation of models and whatnot, we can actually give ourselves a lifestyle that you used to have to rely for a man to give you. And that's why I think, and I find being an influencer and a content creator, like, so empowering because I'm like, well, we can be 18, 19, 20 and we can be making millions of dollars. And you can't really do that in any other career besides being like a doctor or a lawyer. But like, even then, you're in a residency for 10 years. And you're going to have a huge amount of debt. Yeah, and I feel like for the first time, we're seeing this, like, rise of, like, trophy boy friends where it's, like, the girls, the breadwinner and the guy just, like, comes to the brand trips or comes and takes the pictures. Okay, I'm so into that idea. That is, like, my new kind of thing and I'm trying to figure it out. But there is a lot of, there's a lot of shaming around a woman who is, hey, you know what, I'm with this guy because I just really like him and we get along great and maybe he makes less money than I do or he's not as prominent as I am or when we go to a party, I'm on the red carpet and he isn't. But there's still a lot of, like, oh, you know, negativity around that and I don't think it should be that way. I completely agree because, like, even this is a niche reference, but y'all understand it because you're a little at the author. But in, when Miranda has the one episode where she's getting, like, quote unquote, punish because she's the successful one where she's dealing with Steve because Steve doesn't wanna let her let her buy him the suit. But I feel like if it was Rose averse and a man wanted to buy you a dress, you wouldn't even think twice about it. You'd be like, all he's such a gentleman. But if a female wants to buy you something, it's kind of viewed as, like, a negative of, like, oh, I don't need you to buy it. I feel like men get very offended when you offer to pay for things and especially with, like, what we're talking about, like, I, one time dated this guy who, there would be points in time where he would get very insecure where, you know, if we'd go to a dinner and, like, I would pay for it because he would be, like, that's taking away from my masculinity. And I'm, like, what you paid for it, it wouldn't take away from my feminine. Like, I wouldn't take it that way. So I think it's an interesting dynamic between men and women and the dating dynamics. And, yes, I mean, I feel like that is something that really needs to change because I know so many, I'm sure you do too, you know, so many great young women. And this is really the initial question of sex in the city. Why are there so, why are there so many great women in New York and no great guys to marry them? And, you know, that's really the question that starts off the whole series. And that's the question that starts the book. And, you know, it's like if women didn't have these narrow parameters of who was acceptable, it would probably be, you know, better for everybody. I agree, I feel like. You know, there's just so many women. They're like, I, you know, I can't find a guy. Well, yeah, you can't find the guy who's six feet tall and has all his hair and, you know, it's two years older and, you know, makes a couple million a year. I agree, I thoroughly agree. I think we, I think men have really low expectations and I think women have really high expectations and that's like the gap between it. And like even for my personal friends, they always ask me to set them up with people. And I'm like, well, what's your type? And then they give me a whole list of things. And I'm like, well, the likelihood of me finding this very specific type of person is not high. I don't have a friend who's at six four Italian, has blue eyes, has a rocking body, makes a lot of money. I'm like, I don't have just a list of guys that look like that in my phone. I was like, I'm so sorry. Or even girls, like, guys will come up to me, like set me up with one of your friends and I'm like, well, are you okay with a girl that makes more money than you and travels a lot for work? And nine times at a 10, they say no. And one of my best friends, her and her boyfriend were dating for three years. And then she started in this industry. She had her huge moments and they inevitably broke up because he was too insecure with himself because he couldn't deal with her making money. And not that she was making more money. more money than him, she just couldn't deal with him, with her not needing him. And I find that very interesting because men want an independent girl until they have an independent girl. And they do with it. And it's like, "Well, no, I don't need to come to this trip with you because I'm going on another trip with my friends and men get really weird about that nowadays." So I found that interesting. Well, that's also something that's been around for a while, too. And the men say they want an independent woman until they don't want it. Thank you so much for coming on. Fantastic. This has been so much fun. Thank you. I feel like I learned a lot. I just can't get over that fact that I'm interviewing right now. Like this is Sex and the City has like literally alter my brain chemistry in so many different ways. And I see myself, "Oh my gosh. Wait, really quick before you go. Who do you think you embody the most currently at this stage or this era of your life? Which of the four characters?" I don't really know how to answer that question. I mean, I feel like I'm still a version of Carrie Bradshaw, but the Carrie Bradshaw, you know, from the book and then, you know, it's sort of, you know, every girl in a sense. Okay, well, that is it for this week's episode of Booked Blonde and Busy, where we talk all about Sex and the City by Miss Kenneth Bushnell. Don't forget to leave us a review wherever you're listening and watching and also don't forget to join the Patreon because that's where we get really into the books. And we'll also be dropping the next book the month very soon and you definitely don't want to miss that. Okay, love you. [Music]