The Way Forward | Chapter 10

This podcast is intended for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hi everyone, Sean Kipe here. Before we get started, I want to tell you about the brand new podcast I'm launching with my longtime collaborator, Jason Hoke, called How It All Went South. It's a weekly series with not one, but two new episodes coming out each and every week, and it's launching on September 9th. You can follow the show right now on your favorite podcast platform, and as a first for me, the show will also be on YouTube, and we will of course be on all social media platforms. Just search How It All Went South, or follow the link in the description of this episode to find us on your favorite podcast app, YouTube, or on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook. That's How It All Went South. See you on September 9th. I had a crazy shot of him alive, man. What did he do when you see that? Like he shot a deer or something instead of a human being. But shit looked so weird. Home don't look dead. He does not look dead, man. It's like a game. It's like a joke. Like shit, like a motherfucker posing, and he's like, "Hey, what's going on, man?" He's like, "Hey, what's going on?" He's like, "Hey, what's going on, man?" He's like, "Hey, what's going on, man?" He's like, "Hey, what's going on, man?" Was he swelled up or anything? No. Looked the same. Looked the fucking same. Had his eyes open still? He looked dead. He had a phone, man. But he never moved his eyes? Never moved. He was dead. He had to be. I ain't gonna lie, bro. I threw up. I ain't never seen no shit like that. The location where New York allegedly squatted down and had Dylan take a picture of him next to Justin's lifeless body is where Dylan eventually led to his death. It's not like he's dead. I don't think he's dead. I don't think he's alive. long interview with investigators in early early 2008. As far as I'm aware, he has never wavered from his position. Leon insists that Dylan had told him he shot someone. A man, what if I ain't fucking lying? What am I supposed to do right now? If I'm not fucking lying and I don't know nothing else, what do I do? I don't want to have to sit here and have to answer a bunch of questions when I didn't have nothing to fucking do with it. I don't want to have to deal with the police. I don't want to have to do this. I want y'all to realize that I don't know shit, man. Let me tell you something, okay? Well, if you're still stuck in a situation that he, no matter what he tells anybody, they still don't believe his lie, what does he do then? I still say the same thing because it's the fucking truth. It's what I know. Let me tell you something, if I knew what the fuck really happened, I would have been done, Tony. I would have been done agreeing to get on that fucking stand. Now, it's not my intention to create a back and forth, he said, she said between Dylan and Leon, but basically that's exactly what happened. And with no physical evidence to go on to prove or disprove one or the other, investigators got stuck and have remained so for years. To me, Leon sounds just as believable in his interviews as Dylan does. Make of that what you will. The earring Dylan stole from his wife, she said, was a fake one. She stated at one point that he picked up off the ground after Justin was robbed might be the only piece of evidence to provide any credibility to any of the statements made so far. And while he later denied doing that at all, Tammy said she witnessed him take it out of Justin's ear in Andy's garage. The earring was found negative for Justin's DNA, but as mentioned by Mike Rising, had another unidentified DNA source on it. If Dylan's current statements are true regarding how he came into this story, he may be able to prove that the earring was a gift from a close friend named Shannon. And possibly, a new DNA test could confirm that. Recently, I spoke with Shannon's mother, Vicki, to corroborate this story. Shannon never got back to me, though Vicki said she does remember Shannon buying a set of earrings at a Walmart years ago and giving one to Dylan, but she couldn't confirm it's the one in question. Some things that stand out to me in this story are that Dylan told me Shannon's mother actually gave each of them an earring. Not that Shannon bought them. And the timing of this. Several witnesses describe seeing Dylan with the earring for the first time a day or two after Justin disappeared. Mike Rising was provided an earring from Erica recently that she thinks could be the mate to the one Justin wore that night, and he is pursuing a metallurgy test to confirm whether or not it's a match with the one taken from Dylan at the time of his arrest. Some of the stories we've heard from Dylan and other witnesses may sound odd, or ridiculous to you. But in all fairness, and to remain as unbiased as I can, I have to pursue each avenue I can to find the truth. But there could exist one more piece of physical evidence that might close this case once and for all. In 2008, Dylan's friend Shane voluntarily went to the Monroe Police Department to report information he had heard from Tammy Ballew shortly before. It involved the existence of possible physical evidence pertaining to the murder of Justin Gaines. She had a pair of his shoes, had Justin Gaines tennis shoes with blood on them. She says she has the boy's shoes with blood on them and has them close by. Why she told me this and why she told me this makes me think she wants me to come to y'all. Tammy telling Shane that she had Justin's bloody shoes was a startling confession. We previously heard Dylan state that he had seen Justin deceased and he was missing a shoe, which seems to be a key piece of specific information. And while Dylan said he was missing one shoe, Tammy said she had his shoes, per Shane's statement. But perhaps someone simply misspoke or this got misconstrued when being told. Either way, I don't know. It's almost too specific to have been fabricated. Shane also says Tammy told him about Andy's speedboat said to be the one used to put Justin in Lake Lanier. She wasn't talking about speedboat said that while I was down there looking to his body was underneath the cover of the speedboat that was right there close by somewhere. She said that the boat, the seats and everything in the boat was completely reupholstered. I asked Tammy to point blank. Where is Justin Gaines? Where is his body? And she wouldn't answer me. Do you think she knows? Yes, I do. Shane is then asked about Dylan's possible role. Dylan Glass, I truly believe he wants to change his ways. Did he have anything to do with this here? I have no clue. My first question to him was straight up. Did you or did you not tell this girl, this 15 year old girl that put it on MySpace that you had something to do with Justin Gaines disappearance? He looked me right in the eyes and told me no. I said, so you don't know nothing about this boy, period. He said, no. He said, I don't even know him at all. But it seems even Shane has had his doubts about Dylan. I don't think it's just a coincidence that he's telling people this and then it ends up being coming out of the same house. He's in the house he's living in. I think there may be more to it, to be honest with you. Shane was visibly upset in the videotaped interview, in particular when discussing the things Tammy said to him the week before. Why she put all this on me, I don't know. Maybe she told me this because she wanted me to come to y'all and tell y'all this. You know, when I told you guys what I told you is the truth and anything I can do to help y'all figure this out, this is what parents deserve. I got kids 17 and 18. They deserve to know what happened to their son, regardless of what it was. They deserve to know what happened to their son. After Shane's interview, a woman he had been dating for only a week or so also gave a statement. She was with him when Tammy said what she said. Now, she's not a person of interest. I've disguised her voice to protect her identity. And I'll call her Amy. Same Tammy. I met Tammy during his mom's first time. Okay. On a houseboat out there. And I never, never talked to her. I've never seen her before in my life. And she just started talking off the wall step. And I was, I heard the story about Justin and that Dylan was being accused of having something to do with it. But she just starts talking. And she was like, she said that they had brought, somehow Justin had gotten back to Andy's house. And she said that the police had been looking for him. And they looked everywhere. And she said, I don't understand why they didn't look under, there was a tarp. And evidently up under this tarp was a speedboat. And she kept saying, you know, why didn't they look under there? And they looked everywhere except for this tarp on the speedboat. And she said, I don't understand why they wouldn't look. And it was right beside them, I guess. I feel like maybe Justin might have been in that speedboat, up under the tarp or something. I don't know, it's weird. Again, we hear about the boat of Andy's, which was docked next to his houseboat. She also says Tammy once again made the comment that Justin had, quote, come back to Andy's house the night he disappeared. Somehow Justin got back to Andy's house in Snowville is what I, what I got out of it. But she did say that. Justin come back to Andy's house that night. Amy also says Tammy discussed Andy Pickens' van. And then she kept saying something about a van, that they, every time the van come into the yard, they were reupholstering it, cleaning it, and they had put hardwood floors in it. I don't know if she was trying to say that maybe he was in the van or what. Hearing this information was obviously alarming to Amy, as she was new to this entire circle of people. I really don't know anything. All I know is what I heard. I don't even really know these people. This is all new to me. I just walked into a bunch of shit, okay? I just met everybody, so. I just sat there. I didn't say a word. And then she sat there and said, I've got the boys tennis shoes. And they've got blood on them. And Shane goes, where? She said, close. I've got them close. She said, but I've got the boys tennis shoes. We've got blood on them. Talking about Justin. Amy is finally asked if she knew anything related to Dylan Glass' involvement with Justin. The only thing that I heard was Dylan say that, you know, he didn't have anything to do with it. Some of the witnesses that have provided statements in this case, you can rightfully argue, are not likely credible, or are at least questionable. But some have no reason to lie. In fact, doing so would willingly and knowingly drag them into a situation where they would have no reason to lie. them into a situation that no one wants to be in. Amy is a prime example of one such witness. She'd only been dating Shane for about a week when she met Tammy and heard of the bloody tennis shoes and of his body being in the speedboat. She was scared and you can clearly see that in the videotaped interview. She breaks down crying at one point and even states several times that, I just met all these people, now here I am speaking with police. I believe these are genuine statements she's making. Whether the shoes exist or not, whether Tammy still has or ever had them, is another story though. From the inception of this project, my main focus was not only to tell Justin's story and hopefully shed light on this case, but to get people talking. I feel confident that I've done that much. Early in my investigation, when I heard the anonymous call to Texas EquiSearch, I thought, if we can find out who that woman is and speak with her, it might lead to a break in the case. Immediately after the call aired in the podcast, I was so shocked. I was so shocked. I was so shocked. I was so shocked. I began receiving tips on possible identities of the caller. Even once, I truly thought I had the caller identified. That was until I actually did identify the caller. Um, hi, yes. Is this the anonymous line? I can give you some information. Yes, ma'am. Well, just I'm the identified woman. Yeah. So crazy. That is. That just blows. My mind that all these years. That's Wanda. She is, or was, the anonymous caller. I made contact with her through her daughter, Julie, and she was completely taken by surprise that anyone was ever even looking for her. That was many, many years ago. So, and I never saw anything about her. Oh, we probably did. It had no clue. Yeah, that you were looking for me. Oh, people. I just, I, that just blows my mind. Wanda was very sweet and happy to talk to me. Though, as we spoke, it became clear that she didn't really remember too much of the call. It's been 16 years. So much time has passed. But she did remember Justin's name. When you said his name, I was like, Oh my God. And I, I got, you know, Oh, I remember that name. Justin's name. Yeah. I remember. Did any of those names ring a bell? I mean, obviously when you heard Tabitha, when you heard Chino or, you know, heard that Justin owed people money for drugs, did any of that, like, come back to you as you heard it? A little bit. Um, and I know, and Tabitha is the one who told me, so that's who I got my information from. Unfortunately, it seems that in her original call, she really did tell everything she knew. Before I made contact with Wanda, though, I had actually identified and spoke with the Tabitha that was mentioned in her anonymous call. It was a long process of finding and identifying women named Tabitha who would approximately be the right age. And lived in the area at the time. I cross-referenced names Bob Polno had researched over the years to mark off names from the list. And recently, I messaged a woman named Tabitha on Facebook saying, this is going to sound weird, but did you know Justin Gaines? And to my surprise, she said, yeah. How did you know? I later confirmed her identity when I spoke with Wanda. Tabitha told me she did know Justin and she was at Wild Bill's that night with friends, though she said he never called asking for her eyes. And she doesn't believe he would have even had her phone number. She said she was aware of a drug dealer named Chino. And with information she gave about him, we are working to determine if it's the same one later identified by law enforcement. She didn't know much about him or his last name. Curiously, she said she wasn't aware of Justin ever owing money to him or anyone for drugs. Or that Justin even used drugs. She actually said she'd be surprised to learn that. But I feel that Wanda wouldn't have been compelled. to make her call to the tip line if these things were never said in the first place. True or not. I don't know really what she knows. Yeah, if it's the truth, but that's what she told me. That's all I knew is she knew him. While this lead so far hasn't been groundbreaking as we'd hoped, it's showed me something. That together, we do have the ability to move this case forward. To learn new information. To identify leads that were thought to have been lost. To the past 16 plus years. One other thing this podcast has done, has urged people who knew Justin well, to come forward and speak with me to clarify a few mysteries surrounding this case. People like Amanda, who along with Chris, dropped Justin off at Wild Bill's that night. Hey, it's Amanda. Amanda reached out to me in an attempt to clear up some of the questions about the time she and Chris spent with Justin. After picking him up from his parents' house. I can't recall really what we did afterward. I know it wasn't uncommon for us to just drive around. Yeah, I don't know what we did. I know there's like this big issue with the QuikTrip gas station. I don't remember going to a QuikTrip. I remember, you know, telling the investigators that we didn't go. I'm kind of confused with all of that, honestly. After hearing Tammy's statements that Justin had been to Andy's house that night, I asked Amanda if that was true. I mean, I can tell you that we did not go to anyone's house. I asked if she knew anything about Justin being involved in drugs in any way. I don't know if I would consider Justin a super close friend. I mean, we never hung out one-on-one, but I don't. It just, it doesn't seem like him. To do that, from what I know of him. I personally don't see him ever really being involved in that. And the question everyone, including myself, has been asking at this point. Do you know why Chris has not really ever spoken much about this? I honestly don't know. I know there's been a lot of discussion about him. As she can't answer for Chris, Amanda tells me that her own experience, with investigators early on, might help explain why he chose not to talk more about Justin. There's a lot of blame being kind of put back on me when I was talking to them. I mean, at one point they said that, you know, Justin got alcohol poisoning. Chris and I were afraid to tell anyone. And so we took his body and put it in a ditch on the side of the road. They said that to you? Yeah. She also tells me that they didn't just bail on Justin that night at the club. That he went inside and they waited for another 15 minutes or so in line before deciding to leave. We tried calling him when we decided to leave. But obviously, when you're in a place like that, you're either not going to hear your phone go off or you're just going to ignore it. While I've heard so much about this theory of Justin owing money to drug dealers, every person I've talked to that knew him well says they never once saw him or heard of him using or selling any kind of hard drugs. Wow. Yeah, it is still possible. It's something I couldn't find evidence of. His friends never heard of any association with Dylan, Leon, Chino, or any of these other people. I've heard a couple of people tell me that, yeah, Justin smoked weed a couple times. But really, so what? He was a college freshman. It's not that out of the ordinary. Right. According to Will Albrecht, who was the one who sublet his room to Justin shortly before his disappearance, they had to egg him on a bit to even smoke weed, one of the two times he ever saw him do it. And they were together all the time. I've also heard that Justin's friends weren't very cooperative with law enforcement early on. After speaking with people like Will and Amanda, I might have a better understanding now of why. Both said that investigators were initially very accusatory towards them, telling them that they were lying and hiding things. And that they knew what happened to Justin. These people were kids when Justin vanished. And all of a sudden, they found themselves being pulled into police stations and accused of hiding information. It left a really bad taste in their mouths and concerned and angered their parents. The thought of any of Justin's circle of friends being involved seems to me, while not impossible, unlikely. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I'm sure it's the whole world. And you come up with a lot of stuff and I come up with stuff. I'm glad it happened in the long run because it did develop a lot of leads. Mike says that while we've gotten tons of new information, confirmations and leads, there is still one major issue with this case. Georgia is just not a state that generally will prosecute a no body homicide. It has been done several times, to my knowledge, in the state of Georgia, but it's considered pretty rare. So that's been a problem relative to potential prosecution. So again, where do we go from here? I decided several weeks ago to touch base and set up meetings with the FBI, probably out of Athens. And then the U.S. Attorney's Office in Macon. And run this run this case by them for the potential of a possible federal RICO prosecution where we can charge individuals with some of the federal predicate acts would be kidnapping, drugs, drug trafficking and conspiracy to commit murder. And I don't know that we necessarily have to have the victim located to do that. But just as I was wrapping up this episode, Dylan Glass made contact with me again. He professed that he had taken and passed several polygraphs and was even told that he was no longer a person of interest in Justin's case, which truthfully, I found hard to believe. But once again, just as I'd done several times before over the past year, I inquired about this. Why would Dylan be so adamant if it could be proven he was wrong or lying about this? I know that Mike had spoken with the GBI and with the former district attorney, Layla Zahn, who Dylan said was aware of these tests. Both were dead ends. And Mike was told there was no record of Dylan taking any polygraph tests. I asked Mike to call Gwinnett County Police Department and Sheriff's Office and inquire once more. A few minutes later, he asked me to call him. After after your query, I contacted the one of the supervisors for the cold case unit with the Gwinnett County Police Department and told them about Glass's. Claims of having taken a polygraph supervisor contacted one of the lieutenants who was in charge of the Gaines case back in the day. And the response I got back was that the lieutenant had stated, yes, that Dylan Glass had taken two polygraphs. Both were administered by the Gwinnett County Sheriff's Office. Both of these polygraphs were at the request of Dylan Glass because he wanted to clear his name from. Rumors that he was involved. The results of both polygraphs showed that Glass had no involvement in the Gaines case and the lieutenant was present. Rising and I were both shocked to learn this. These results were not included in the case file handed over to the Walton County Sheriff's Office. And why not? How could results or information like this about one of the main persons of interest in this case not be? Included in the case file. And while Mike isn't prepared to say with 100% certainty yet, Dylan is home free. It does seem to change things. Oh, it does. It definitely does. Yeah, it's kind of a bombshell. So, I mean, as you said that that is kind of a bombshell. I believe that is a bombshell, especially having taken it twice. What do you think that means for this case and for Dylan's alleged innocence? Involvement in Justin's disappearance or death? Well, I'd like to look at the exact questions. But when the statement is that both polygraphs showed he had no no involvement in the Gaines case, that's that's pretty huge to me. That means we're going to do some immediate reevaluation on other leads relative to the disappearance of Justin Gaines. I've also got to keep in mind the other leads that we've got that don't involve Dylan Glass at all. It's now being much more viable. How much stock do you put in passing a polygraph and in passing two? I mean, what do you think that does for Dylan's credibility? Oh, I think it I mean, it backs up his story of, you know, making up his total involvement in the case. And then just because of the way he was approached by the initial interview. Viewers who he just didn't like the style that they went after him. And he decided on his own he was going to make up this story. You've got Dylan, Leon and Shane all kind of saying the same thing. And Dylan's the guy that put those guys into the trick. But then you've got other folks that are girlfriends, wives or, you know, associates of Tammy Ballew. There are associates of Dylan who, you know, make. Damning statements of their involvement. You know, some of that Tammy Ballew's especially is very credible. I spoke with Dylan to let him know what I'd just learned. I ain't gonna lie, Sean. I've been through that would happen, right? See, people thought I was lying this whole time. I've been through all this, right? The people don't want to tell the truth, Sean. If they take me out that equation, they're lost. They don't want to tell the world that they just wasted 16 fucking years. Looking at the wrong person. Their pride won't let them take that. Their pride won't let them apologize to me. They're not going to. I'm not a hero. I'm not some good motherfucker. I know that. But I still did not have nothing to do with that shit. And yeah, I deserve to be in prison. I've been in prison. I'm paying for what I've done. But I didn't have nothing whatsoever to do with that shit. I just wanted somebody to come in and tell the truth. Like, I never. That's a trade to be a fucking good guy. Like, I don't. I've made. I've sold drugs and gang bang and been a fucked up dude, okay? Do I deserve to be in prison? Cool. But I ain't never killed nobody. While Mike Rising says he cannot 100% discount Dylan as a suspect based on polygraph results alone, this does change things. He is requesting metallurgical testing on the earring of Dylan's and will be pursuing DNA testing on those as well. to further verify his statements. But when it comes to physical evidence, Dylan makes a point. Sean, all they ever had to do was go to that house and search that house. None of that boy's DNA was there. That boy was never there. And if they found the fucking videos that was in that house, Sean, the only thing they would have seen me do that night was smoke ice, steal tools, and play pool. Because none of Andy Pickens' property was ever searched, I can't argue with him on this. The videos he referred to as his own are fake. The videos he referred to are the security camera footage from inside and outside of Andy Pickens' home. It's a drug dealer thing. And while you likely have the same questions I have now, how could so many statements have been made reinforcing Dylan's story? How could statements have been made by Dylan before Justin was even reported missing? And how could Tammy's story have lined up so well with parts of Dylan's? And why would she say those things if they weren't true? I mean, this is her kid. I asked Dylan that, and he told me that when Tammy was put in a hotel room the night before she was to give that official statement, the two spoke on the phone and came up with the confession, thinking it would help him out in some way. But one thing Dylan has not accounted for here is that Tammy gave that same statement to Carl Sims before checking into the hotel, when he sat with her and Justin Glass in her home. And the dates on the file that I have for Shane's interview was from 2008. Well, before Dylan or Tammy gave their confessions. So now you've heard it all. What do you think? Time will tell what happens from here. But one thing is for sure. Mike Rising is not quitting on Justin. Just as I won't because this podcast is over for now. While Justin's case hasn't been solved yet, I think we collectively have done well in raising awareness of this case. Mike tells me it's still important to work on cold cases like Justin's, no matter the odds. Personally, it's my own empathy for these cold cases. One of the first things I do is I go out and I interview the surviving victims, the parents, mothers, fathers. They start reliving the entire case, and you're sitting there with them, and you can't help it. Your heart goes out to them. And that definitely contributes to my motivation to work these things to the end. Thankfully, there are people out there like Mike Rising, who could have long ago retired and be home spending time with his family. And Bob Poulneau, who's put more time and energy into this case over the past 16 years than I could even imagine, without ever charging the Wilson family a dime and offer one simple belief of his. It's all about compassion. Even though someone leads a wayward life, it's all about compassion for them. that person. I just felt compassion for the family to get down some kind of resolution on the case. What really matters to me at this point is how Erica feels about this project. We've talked a lot over the past year or so and it's always at the front of my mind how it will affect her when hearing these episodes, the interviews, the information and theories surrounding her son's demise. Oh I mean it's brought back a lot of emotions. I mean he's being talked about all over the world now. That's just wonderful. People are sending in information, people are trying to spend time helping me research, just trying to help overall. It's just out there and how amazing is that? I mean it's amazing. But it's also reminded me of my frustrations early on with Gwinnett County Police Department. I mean it reminded me like I didn't want to listen. Why didn't Justin matter to them, you know? Why didn't they care enough to get a search warrant on the boat, the house, the van? Because I don't think I'd be waiting two decades for answers if they would have taken it seriously in the beginning. I mean so many people don't understand what it's like having a missing child. And you don't want to feel alone and I definitely don't feel alone right now. I feel like I have so many people out there trying to help us and that means a lot. It's been a long time. You start to feel lonely like you're in it alone and people are forgetting about them by your child every year as it goes by because it's not out there. You don't know what's going on and you don't know if anyone's even looking for them. It's just a wonderful thing that this has happened and I do thank you for that. Trust me when I tell you that if you've never looked into a mother's eyes when she speaks of her murdered child, consider yourself lucky. When you spend a year or more of your life looking into every minute detail of someone else's, you can't help but feel you've gotten to know them a little bit. Almost like someone you met years ago and vaguely remember. Justin's family and friends remember his big personality. His pale blue eyes and his big smile. The way he loved to laugh and joke around. They remember the way he transformed from a pudgy kid with no self-confidence into a good-looking young man full of charisma. Even if it could be a bit much at times. It was all part of who Justin was. I can tell you this much. He was loved. He is missed dearly by many. Justin was loved. Justin Gaines wasn't perfect. But who is? We've all made mistakes growing up. Done things we wish we could go back and change. But of all the things I've ever heard about Justin Gaines, things that Justin would probably look back on later in life and think, "God, what a numbskull I was then. I'm glad I got through that phase of life and learned from those mistakes." But he never had that chance. Because someone with a complete disregard for human life, for his life, he never had that chance. Because someone with a complete disregard for human life, for his life, took that from him. And who knows what he'd be doing now. He might have kids of his own that he's trying to protect, and teach them not to make the same immature mistakes he made as a young man. But of all the things I've heard that he's done, that he might have done, or that he was, none of that warrants his death. None of that warrants his murder. He did not deserve to be thrown in a lake, or put in a box, or a well, or under a driveway, or burned, or any of the other horrible things I've heard that may have happened to him. We all deserve more than that. Justin deserved more. Because he was someone's nephew, brother, friend. He was still someone's son. He was Erica's son. And she's never gotten over losing him. I don't think she ever will. But I've learned something about Erica Wilson through the past year or so. She is unwavering and unrelenting in her commitment and dedication to finding her son. Whatever that means. But if there's one thing, hopefully, she can find solace in, it's seeing how many people care and are invested in finding him now. In bringing him home to her, so that she can say goodbye to him the way that she needs to. To let go. And to move forward. But don't let me leave you feeling that all hope is lost. Mountains of information and a steady flow of leads have come in since this podcast began airing, with several that have been deemed extremely valuable. And more than one main person of interest has recently been re-interviewed by investigators. And several other persons of interest will be interviewed. We've identified several additional, possible locations of Justin's body. Informants have provided specific and credible information, but I cannot yet reveal the details around what they've told authorities, as I've been asked by police to not share this information publicly. As you heard from Mike Rising, police are looking at their options for specific next steps forward. Between the potential involvement by the FBI and U.S. Attorney's Office, potential charges, and these new leads and interviews as a result of this podcast, there's a lot more to come. As I can share more publicly, I will. This is not over. While we can't wrap up this series in a perfect 10-episode bow as we'd all like, that doesn't mean we've failed. I can tell you this, matter-of-factly. People are talking. And others are nervous. And I think honestly, more so than ever before. This case is solvable. It's only a matter of time. Drowning Creek is an original production of Waveland. I wrote and created the series, and I hope you enjoy it. If you're interested in learning more about Waveland, please subscribe to the channel and hit the bell icon so you don't miss out on any future episodes. If you have any questions about Waveland, please leave them in the comments, and I'll be happy to answer them. If you have any questions about Waveland, please leave them in the comments, Drowning Creek is an original production of Waveland. I wrote and created the series and the original score. Executive Producer is Jason Hoke. Associate Producer is Leo Culp. Sound Engineering by Shane Freeman. Special thanks to Erica Wilson and her family. If you have any leads on this case, please contact me at [email protected], and if you love the series, please leave a review and tell your friends. Follow Waveland on Instagram @wavelandmedia for more on this series and upcoming new shows, and you can also find me on social media @seankypeofficial or at seankype.com. As always, thanks for listening.