The W's Scoring Explosion With Brendan Glasheen, and the Sparks Fire Their GM

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Make sure you look for sales throughout the month. Shop fall flavors with higher standards at Whole Foods Market. Anything is possible. Welcome to the Ringer WNBA show. I'm Sirit Sohi. We've got a loaded episode for you guys today. We're going to talk Fever Aces, Angel Reese's incredible fourth quarter against the Sparks, Kelsey Mitchell, Marina Mabry, Shoe Gate, so much stuff to get into from this week. But in light of Reagan Peebley being fired from the Sparks, we're going to start with some palace intrigue in Los Angeles and a move that could shake up the entire league 20 days before the trade deadline. So I keep thinking about the WNBA's 30th anniversary game in LA between the Sparks and the Liberty. It was a night where you could feel all the weight and the power of the Sparks' history, in the building. Lisa Leslie, who played for that inaugural 1997 squad and won two titles for the Sparks, spoke before the game and at halftime. And it was really in her voice that you could feel both like the encouragement and the disappointment, like her trying to hold both where the franchise was with where it is now and the title roots that it's trying to get back to. And frankly, how far it is from that right now. And the night ended with Nneka Ogumike, another player who won a title with his franchise, who returned this year, making a game-winning three and breaking out into tears in her post-game interview. I'll play the clip of that too. Congrats on the win. But overall, just this big picture moment of just how this game is growing, the fans that are here. What does it feel like to have this type of celebration and create your own history on this day? It feels really good. I've been with the Sparks for so long. I'm so sorry. It's a moment. It's emotional seeing all of these legends in the building, people that didn't get paid their value and they're still coming here and supporting us. I'm so grateful. Thank you, Madam President. I'm so grateful. Thank you. Thanks, thank you. Since then, the Sparks have lost four of their last six games and they have fired their general manager as of this weekend. I guess my larger point here is a lot of people care about the LA Sparks. They are an important WNBA franchise, an inaugural franchise, and in a league that has had so much relegation and has such a short history, the Sparks are one of the only franchises that has a weight of a championship history for the present to live up to. They're also in a marquee market that is basketball crazed. And I think if you look at the Valkyries, an expansion team in NorCal that's lapping them in wins, in vibes, in attendance, in how close they feel to a title, in vision, in revenue, I think it can feel a little bothersome, right? Like right now, if there's a California tentpole in the W, it's the Valkyries. And I think honestly, LA looks at basketball the way that America looks at every other sport. If they're not good at it, they're going to have an existential crisis about why. And I think that there's a sense in LA, especially with the revival of the WNBA, that this franchise could just be more, that it should be more. You have a basketball crazed city in a huge market that could attract marquee stars, that has attracted marquee stars. You have two powerhouse college programs, one of which employs Juju Watkins, the other of which just won a title. And I really do think that this is a responsibility that Regan Peebly, despite my disagreements with her approach to LA's rebuild, definitely took seriously. And I actually think it's a responsibility, the Sparks ownership from Mark Walters to Magic Johnson, kind of forgot about until Kaitlyn Clark arrived in 2024. And then they tried to fast track getting back to a title without really having the pathway to get there. And they gave up a lot of assets and they don't really have a lot to show for it. And to me, the fascinating thing about the Sparks firing Regan right now, it's not the firing itself, like I think that one is kind of easy to understand why it happened. You can kind of take your pick of their many swings and misses. You know, you have Awa Pham, one of her first moves was trading the 2026 pick that became Awa Pham for a 2024 pick that became Rekia Jackson. Now that wouldn't look as bad, if not for the fact that Rekia Jackson wasn't since traded to Ariel Atkins, who's really just starting to figure things out with it. With the Sparks and is six years older than Rekia Jackson. Dominique Molonga, the number two pick, after they didn't get Paige Beckers, they traded that number two pick into Kelsey Plum, who they honestly could have just signed in free agency a year later and had the number two pick at the same time. They didn't protect Julie Alamon, who really stabilized them in a late season run last year in the expansion draft. They didn't protect Sarah Ashley Barker, who's having a breakout year in Portland. And Peebly also signed Atkins, De'Erica Hamby, and Erica Wheeler to long-term contracts that just might not look very good or be very tradable if that's the direction that the Sparks decide to go from here. And ultimately, all the pieces that they gave up in hopes of accelerating their title timeline have just turned the Sparks into a middling team mired by injuries, even after getting NECA in free agency. And look, I don't know, if it was Reagan or ownership who was in charge of that vision, but I think the lesson here is clear. Like this was a team that was very ambitious, but they didn't have any patience or I was going to split the difference, but they didn't have patience or prudence. And in a league full of rival executives that are looking for that exact thing, they're looking for rushed teams that feel like they are under pressure to take advantage of their desperation. That can be a very, very dangerous combination. And the interesting thing, right, now is that the Sparks for a long time, I think the last few years, they have been a mark in free agency in the trade market. And right now they're kind of, they're in a space of mystery. The timing of this fascinates me. We are 20 days before the trade deadline right now. And usually when there's a firing this close to a transactional event, it's because of some sort of disagreement. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm just saying that's what is often the case. I think it's because of some sort of disagreement. I think that's what was the case with Washington, for example, when they fired Jamila Wiedemann just days before the draft. I just think that the timing, it makes it very hard to feel like this was a routine issue. I think probably something went down. And I think if not, then at the very least, they just felt like they couldn't head into another transactional period with Reagan at the helm, just given her track record. But it makes things very interesting, right now, because I don't know, and I don't think anybody in the league really knows right now if L.A. is a buyer or a seller. And of all the players that could be available at the deadline, none are as talented as Neko Gumike or Kelsey Plum. So this is just a very interesting situation. Like, this is a league and an ecosystem that is built on trading information. And the Sparks have just put a huge question mark into the works with 20 days left until the deadline and five games for them. And everyone's got questions. Like, who are they going to hire as their new GM? Who runs things for the next 20 days until they do? Does this signal a rebuild? Are Kelsey and Plum, like, really, they're obviously great players, right? Like, Kelsey, if she wasn't, if she wasn't hurt, she probably would have started in the All-Star game. And Neko Gumike is a perennial All-Star herself. At the same time, there are one-year deals. So I don't know how much teams are really going to want to get for players that they could potentially pursue in free agency. The other thing is, like, who's running the ship? Zach Knowlton, Nate Nielsen are currently running basketball operations. There were new hires this offseason as the Sparks kind of tried to shore up in a lot of different departments. I feel like that's the other side of this, is, like, they do have a practice facility coming. They have invested a lot into their infrastructure and into their people infrastructure as well. I've heard great things about both of those guys. And I think that's a good thing. but as Ramona Shelton reported they are going to go through a full search process for a new GM as well um and they have a new president in Stacey Johns that they hired uh last uh at the end of last season who is also like around a lot lately um and that was that was an interesting thing that I noted like I do feel like there has been some pressure some so I can just feel a change in the air from when I'm at the arena you can even think about um Kamala Harris attending the Sky uh versus Sparks game this Friday right like it's it's you can understand it on both ends like for Kamala it's an opportunity if she was to if she was to run for president again to sort of reconnect with what she hopes is a core constituency in WNBA fans and for the Sparks it's just an opportunity to get like some buzz show people that they're like there's some juice uh entering entering the building and like I like I've just kind of noticed more moves like that as of late so that in and of itself has been very interesting to me also like everything around um all all-star voting as well like the fact that those stories came out after Kelsey and Nneka weren't voted as starters that the players actually didn't receive their ballots um that was very interesting timing to me for those stories to to come out and the fallout from that as well like that that felt to me like two players maybe like I don't even know if it's the players themselves but like a sort of disappointment that the two-star players for this team like didn't get the right answer and didn't get the recognition that maybe they would have gotten if they were on winning teams this season because even Nneka like she probably wouldn't have been a starter but she's having a really good season and you could let's say she signed with Minnesota where Natasha Howard is and Natasha Howard was a starter you could be looking at a situation where Nneka in a Lynx uniform would have been a starter so that's a wrinkle and I don't know what that wrinkle means necessarily but that's definitely a wrinkle um and they have to figure out how to do that and I think that's one of the reasons why I think that's one of the reasons why I think that's one of the reasons why they have to figure out who they want to hire too so the best available candidate is probably Jen Rizzotti the current Sun president somebody who's been in and around the WNBA for a long time um I think she did a great job of running those Sun franchises that definitely did not have the advantages that LA has as a market or the budget that LA will have with the Mark Walters ownership remember this is the Dodgers ownership that you know basically bought a title um and um you know is is just making a lot more money and a lot more money and a lot more money and a lot more money with the Lakers now that are just willing to spend like they they are willing to spend like they bought some draft picks they did a couple other things and so they're going to be willing to spend here too they're already already willing to spend on the the practice facility so for her to run a franchise like the Sparks you can see how that would make sense I also think that when Reagan was hired and Reagan was hired by this ownership group um she was not experienced she was not somebody who had executive experience like her experience was really in the college ranks and running TCU for I think she was a coach there for nine years and granted like in the later end of that that comes with the NIL and the recruiting and some of the same stuff that you're doing as a GM but it's not the same as like understanding the WNBA and and like all of its personnel and I think that I don't think that the Sparks are going to go in that direction again there's also Jamila Weideman as well um who did a lot of really good job with Washington the year before and from what I've been able to report about why she was let go in that situation I don't think it was really her competency as much as I think she wanted to run the show there I think she's a bit of a lone wolf and if LA is willing to hire somebody and just say hey you go execute the vision you have this is a GM that made the Ariel Atkins trade like made maybe the best trade in WNBA history that got the Washington Mystics Sonia Citron and will probably get them a really high pick in this year's draft owing to the pick swap from Chicago as well on top of some other deals that they made as well the Aaliyah Edwards to JC Sheldon swap that eventually the next regime turned it into a 2028 pick um I think the Sonia pick was obvious but I think she really hit on the Kiki pick as well like Kiki's an all-star all WNBA future type of talent as well so I think she's a good option Natalie Williams former Aces president that helped construct their title team ultimately let go in 2024 after they lost in round two I'm pretty sure Portland kicked the tires on her before they eventually hired Vanja Cernovich from uh from the Valkyries you could also just kind of try to come over the top on a team like the Valkyries and maybe try to take Ohema or and like if you just shove them like more money than God like you could try to go after Dan Padover in Atlanta as well who's just done a great job with that rebuild but hey you know what that rebuild took five years as well so I think she's a good option for her to go after Dan Padover so I think the key thing here is like just just continuing to be patient right um and and I don't like I look with 20 20 games until the deadline 20 days until the deadline five games until the deadline I don't really know what that looks like or what direction they even want to go in um I think that if they do decide to rebuild there are a couple options but like just just asking around the league I just think it's really hard to gauge what the value is for the one year deal is on Kelsey Plum and Nneka Ogumike's contract I think that part is just a big hang up the fact that um you could go after these players in free agency next year if you wanted to like when I think about the teams that would be a fit for example Golden State right like they have a bunch of young players there's a bunch of formations that work with Kelsey's contract you could go Caitlin Chen you stay Janelle I wouldn't give up Janelle personally um and and that's because you can try to get Kelsey as a free agent next year like it makes it makes sense on a basketball level they need to be able to get Kelsey as a free agent next year like it makes it makes sense they need their closer Kelsey Plum was like incredible clutch player incredible isolation player for a team that runs a lot of isolations makes a lot of sense I think Atlanta is really interesting as well I think this is one that might actually work just because I don't think that they have a way of getting her in free agency because they do they have like committed a lot of money into their current players right now but you could pair Jordan Canada with one of their young players and Tahina Pow Pow or Isabel Borlase um Medina Oka Aliyah and I maybe a first like there are definitely a lot of options there that work and like maybe maybe maybe LA could kind of take their pick of like the young player that they would want out of Atlanta the other one I've heard people kick around is Chicago um I don't think that one would work that well because I think like the thing that Kelsey Plum wants in her career right now is to win a title being the best player on a championship level team and I think she could get that with Atlanta I think she'd get that with Golden State we'll see if you know this is something that she can do in LA I don't think Chicago is really close to being in that position at all right now and it wouldn't really be prudent to trade for her I also just think that like she has an agent in Zach Miller who I frankly just think has like too much juice to end up sending Kelsey somewhere that like she doesn't want to go um Nneka kind of a similar thing I'm I'm very curious how much she wants to retire as a spark she only signed a one-year deal I wonder if that was part of just like a one-year deal I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know just like giving them an audition seeing how things went this year and probably maybe exerting some leverage as well um and I think like I want one team I think about is what is going to be the Houston franchise where she's from um that would be pretty full circle for her like president of the PA to retire in her hometown for the first WNBA team that ever won the title um in the comments and and coming back to the WNBA in this golden age of the league I think that could be pretty cool again like they have some players that would make sense I think Saniya Rivers and Nelson Olivia Nelson Adota are two players that make a lot of sense for the Sparks even even in a configuration if they wanted to try to make a deal for Saniya Rivers um that would allow them to continue to win and now I just think that she's a player that could improve their perimeter defense um make them younger and be a future piece and just needs a change of scenery from from from what's going on in Connecticut with her um Olivia Nelson Adota also just like gives them flexibility um and just a little bit more of a chance to do something that they want to do and I think that's a good more like in their front court right now because without Cam Brink they just they just have no rim protection that's a huge problem um for them right now so those are like those are kind of like the deals that I was thinking of um I don't know if there's like that many avenues for them to get better to be honest like Ray Burrell like I just wouldn't really move her she's like the only like she's like the silver lining to everything that's going on with them right now um so yeah I don't really know I guess well I guess we'll just see what what what all this means in the um and the last thing is Lynn Roberts like what does this mean for her she was hired by Reagan Peebly um she is currently still the Sparks coach I think that she has been dealt a very difficult hand injury wise and I think that it's interesting like really prior to this week she was she was a lot more um stuck on I don't know I don't know if stuck's the right word but she was she was way more adherent to her system than she has been and really just like the last week so I don't know what that tells you about how she feels about like the pressure that's on her right but they I talked about this a little bit in last week's podcast but they changed their offense quite a bit in the last week or so um and they did have a bunch of time off prior to this but they are attacking mismatches a lot more like Lynn Roberts came into the league as like this three and d five out spread it out type of type of coach and and uh that worked really well for players that really thrived in like the middle of the floor getting post-ups attacking mismatches in neko gumike and derrick ahamby and ray burrell too who's who's great at you know driving and just attacking smaller players as well um and since they've kind of switched up and like just ran more pick and roll for non-kelsey players i think that's been really great for ariel atkins who's like just playing a lot better in the last few games it's been good for erica wheeler um neko gumike is kind of all over the floor like they run her off of screens for threes but they also have her attack mismatches and just running those screens in general um it creates a lot of mismatch situations whether you're a guard or a big for that team as well so the offense just looks a little bit better than it did before and the other thing is like and this always feels like a bit of a and i get i'm just guessing but this always feels like a bit of like a front office or like ownership directive but this is not a coach who like loves to play young players and and in fairness there aren't a lot of young players in in la that i would love to play but she is putting them out in the corner today against um dream they've got elissa peely who's getting absolutely dusted by angel reese um i like park park's a good cutter i like how she moves in space emma cannon's a good screener good bet like but like you have these these lineups with the three of them and burrell um and peely and like i think who is like i think at times hammy um just like really small lineups that aren't really like moving the needle a lot but like it just feels like somebody wants wants him to get a rep um there was also there was this play like where she's like it's in the first quarter kiana williams like flings a ball out of bounds and lynn roberts is just staring into the middle distance if you're if you're like i'll put this on the video but like just just look at her face like this is not this is not somebody who's happy to ride out the befuddling mistakes of the young and the experience right now um so we'll see i like la against atlanta they fought like they definitely they they got done in by their turnovers and the fact that they just couldn't hold on on the offensive glass against angel reese and they were just outsized but this didn't look like a team that had any interest in giving up on lynn roberts like i think derrick and hammy in particular somebody who stuck out stuck out to me is like just upping her physicality as much as she could in that game um and we'll just kind of see what happens from here like ultimately i think this is a live situation it will depend on what they think they can get in the market um it'll depend on how fast some players are able to come back from injuries cam brink they're hoping to have back in this four-game road trip kelsey plumb sounds like maybe after the all-star game um and we'll just see what this team looks like in the next 19 days but ultimately they have five games until the deadline and this is a very important flashpoint in the history of the la sparks and i really couldn't tell you what's going to happen from here but take it back to that night in la and neca coming back to the sparks so there's this quote from reagan i think at their first introductory press conference for neca where she said the first time i really got to know neca was actually when she was leaving remember reagan was hired in 2024 when the franchise realized it needed a facelift but before it really had done any of the things necessary to retain stars in a modern era so neca left for the storm who have their own practice facility and have had one for a very long time so to continue from reagan reagan says so for this to come full circle and have the opportunity to bring her back here to the sparks is really special and i think neca really really wants to win and i think a lot of like kelsey they so many people really want to make it work in la and i think about that night i think about bringing neca back and i just wonder like how short-lived would this la experiment be are they going to kind of do a lakers thing where they over index on like a symbolic free agency win or will this era of sparks basketball actually end up meaning something like i think about that night a couple weeks ago with the neca game winner and it felt like a dream and it feels like a dream honestly it's in a very literal sense like it was fleeting and it almost felt like a fantasy it felt completely disconnected from the reality of what is going on within this franchise right now and it felt enhanced in height it felt in hindsight like an interlude into the past you have the crowd going crazy neca leading them to glory lisa in the building everybody energized that's what it used to feel like in la and it hasn't felt like that outside of that moment for a very long time and we'll see if this franchise can get things back on track i do think that the wa i do think that the wnba is better when the sparks are good um i also want to since that atlanta game just happened i also just want to talk about the game that angel reese had and all the ways in which she won a game that atlanta had no business winning stylistically at all showing up in key fourth quarter moments where they really needed it um and it's interesting so the three defining the three defining qualities of atlanta's skid have been streaky shooting predictable and inefficient half-court offense and really questionable ball screen defense and all of those things still remained in this in this win that atlanta really needed um but they got it by like dragging the game into the mud and they're not typically a team that's great at dragging the game into the mud and winning but now they have angel reese and when you're playing in the mud there's probably no one you'd rather have angel reese and there were a couple plays that stood out like there was a possession late in the first half that basically summarized her night atlanta is getting nothing in the initial action it's like the typical half-court offense ryan howard basically trying to make something out of nothing misses a fadeaway baseline jumper and reese comes flying in for the putback um there's another where like erica wheeler like flung the ball at the top of the backboard because reese was there she just like didn't want to deal with her at the rim she gets like deflection on on neca she's very physical with hamby um she contests them both on one play and then dives on the board to get the rebound um and then she makes this three with three minutes to go and she starts barking at somebody in the crowd and the thing that's fun about these atlanta games with her is that like when she claps back the crowd gets going with her too like they like her trash talking um i feel like they build off of each other like they kind of do it in a way that everyone is just really getting into it right like they want someone who is going to put on a show like that and she's brought so many people into that building and she has these moments now um where the energy snowballs because of her like the crowd is just so responsive to her and they like you know she's like fuck is you talking about like this is my shit i'm just you know i'm lip reading here but it's kind of obvious she's like this is my shit this is my house like everybody's getting hyped um and she just brought them back she brought them back to the game that honestly like it looked like the like the la sparks before before they started really turning it over before like they were they were going to be able to pull this one out um and the dream had no offense going and it was really just it was really just angel reese at the end of the game so shout out to her that was like just like a very quintessential atlanta moment one of those one of those games where you kind of wonder in the in the arc of a regular season if like you can build something off of a win like that because they have struggled as of late um but it's just good good to get one at home and it's just like it's just like it's just like it's just good to get one at home and to not have to play until friday they can get they can get into practice in a good mood and actually just like work on some of the things that they have to fix um all right next we are going to bring on brendan glasheen um really excited to talk to him we had a fun conversation just getting into the just mesmerizing guard scoring that we are seeing across the league right now but we keyed in on marina mabry we talked to kelsey mitchell and some page beckers uh a little bit towards the end you are craving more page beckers uh we're going to talk about her we're going to do a little bit of a deep dive on page and the dallas wings later on this week so stay tuned for that and uh we'll take a break and brendan and i will take it away after that this episode is brought to you by weather tech whether it's a pumpkin spice 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i am joined by everybody's favorite commentating voice you have heard him calling unrivaled you have heard him calling connecticut sun games uh where him and tarika foster brasby were voted as everybody's favorites play-by-play crew uh you just heard him on the call for i at ion for the temple's first ever game with montreal which i believed broke the record for the most attended WNBA game of all time. You were also, Brendan, you were in the building for some incredible performances this week. Kelsey Mitchell, Paige Beckers, Marina Mabry, you were an international, or I guess North American. You're a North American man of mystery. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. I feel like you just have this enthusiasm about the game that just really pulls people in, so I'm super excited to talk to you. Thank you for making the time today. Of course. No problem. I appreciate the kind words. It's very important you go Tarika first, then me. You got to get the order right there when you say that. And you did that. You go Tarika first, then me. Is that an agreement that you guys have? Is it like when you go. I know I'll hear it if I don't clarify that. I'm just joking. We have a good crew. It's a weird year with the sun departing for Houston, so we're trying to take this thing home strong. Everyone's got other stuff going on. Which is a good thing. Our crew's done a great job of spreading their wings, if you will, around the league. They're doing USA, Megan McEwen's on ION, and doing ESPN Studio stuff, our college and pro. So I wouldn't lie to you. I know folks enjoy our Connecticut shows, but now with these other TV partners in the mix, I think people are kind of planting their seeds, if you will. It's just been a weird year. I think it will feel more real in August once we get there. I think it will feel more real in August once we get through the All-Star break, and then you kind of get one month to go. But yeah, anyway, it's been my sixth year in the league. It's been a lot of fun, and I try to take every assignment the same, whether it be a high school football game or a NBA G League game or a summer league game that I'm doing today. It's the same as the W. That's been my approach since the beginning. I've learned a whole lot since 2021, but that's how I look at it. So anyway, it's been good. Nice. Hey, look, a lot of stuff has changed around the league. I feel like we're all trying to find our seat. And oh, my God. Oh, my God. Check out this segue. Another thing that has changed around this league in the last year in particular is the WNBA's scoring evolution. I was thinking about this before we started recording because we want to talk about three guards that have basically ascended the astral plane, right? Like they're all in completely different systems with completely different skill sets. Marina Mabry is setting records for three pointers in a game. Paige Beckers is bringing back the mid-range, and then you have Kelsey Mitchell. Who's doing a little bit of all of these things, but the thing that I love about all of them is like they've they've kind of ascended to this place where they're not just reading the defense or manipulating the defense. They're experimenting in real time. It's like it's we're really in a basketball is jazz spot with these players like they're just they're just kind of in this space where they're testing the limits of their imagination right now. And it's super fun and it dovetails with WNBA. We know. Obviously the freedom of movement rules change to allow for more movement for guards over the course of this season so far, and it's had an impact in the stats, right? Like WNBA offenses. They're averaging 86 points per game at some most in WNBA history. Also a jump that we've never seen in WNBA history. If you are, by the way, listening to this, we are now video on platform and we'll be all I'll be including some graphs alongside all of this. We're all courtesy of her hoop. We love it. We love a good graph. I love a good graph. I mean, I feel I feel I feel like that a graph just highlights analytics. And I love that. Yeah. Well, some people are visual learners, and you know, I, I was proud of my bar graphs and I was in fifth grade and even the high school so I hope I'm looking forward to the graph. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. You know, some people are auditory. I'm I prefer not to learn at all. You know, I just kind of stick with what I think. But we also have a historic we have a league of historic 25 three point attempts per game. And despite that field goal percent is at an historic high. So I think that just tells you about the level of skill and shot making that we're seeing in the league right now. And then of course, free throw attempt second highest that we've ever seen. So right. This all dovetails with all these players, but hey, I'll let I'll let you take the floor. Like, what do you think of that? And I'm just curious who who's whose performance stood out to you the most this weekend. Whoo. Okay. A lot there. Um, yeah, Mitchell, I was at the aces fever game last night, and Kelsey Mitchell, even though the Boston but you're talking guards, Mitchell, or ability to get downhill her speed with the ball. I mean, I know Kelsey Palms been injured, so let's not leave her out. But those two to me in terms of their speed with the basketball to dissect the defense is special. And you got Marina, who a big part of what you're talking about. I know it's not a perfect equation, speaking of, you know, nerd note on the math, but Marina in year eight, first time all star has been traded four times. This is more of a this isn't a numbers thing to me. This is a you got a coach who believes in you that an organization that's not to say other places didn't believe in her. I just mean, they they paid her max money. They're running it through her. And she's also matured. Let's keep it real. I mean, in her postgame press for the other night, she's like, I'm not going to get rage-baited anymore. There's been a nice growth that Marina realizes, hey, if I want to win games, you know, dropping 30 and losing, she did. It happened in unrivaled with the Lunar Owls. But that's why the crash show jars like been the best thing for her because she holds herself accountable. Like, that's the joke in it. Initially, it was like, oh, she's just going to keep putting money into it. I actually think the joke was, I'm going to make this to make me not put money in it. So Sandy Sandy's empowered her and Toronto's going through it right now with injuries, no rice, no, no Sykes. So it was a gutty win for them the other night. But Marina has just been, for the most part, for her standards, it's been just like this. I'm making like a straight line in terms of her emotional rollercoaster throughout the course of the game. But having seen it up and close, the work she put in at unrivaled with DJ Sackman, who runs his hoop study program, and he's the head coach of Lunar Owls. His shooting drills, his shooting, because they did a lot of individual work down there in Miami. I think that's a big part of their three X three practice sessions. And yeah, Marina was shooting the lights out. I just think, again, to use what I said about Kelsey, learning more how to dissect the defense. Or it is big, too. She's bigger than she gives herself, getting to the rack more, more so than ever. But again, last thing I'll say on Marina, she was more of a role player in her previous stops. That twenty four Connecticut team that beat Indiana in the first round and then lost to them in the second round. I mean, I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. That's a good thing. season um turn into like one of the most elite the most explosive seasons that we're seeing right now like and it's more than she added new skill like she sharpened existing ones and then she was also in this environment that forced her to expand her responsibilities even going back to the sun right no it's that's that's that's spot on um i would agree growing pains unrivaled and i think even learning and she got hurt her last year in connecticut she was 10 games in the smack dab middle of the year then they got lakhan back and meaning they i'm sorry they got lakhan for the first time that is uh going back to last year and tina was there it was just kind of clunky trying to figure out what the what the plan was and bria hartley was a volume shooter too so um yeah i think um i i marina has um she's got a great energy about her when you're just getting a chance to talk to her and like you said upping the responsibility to learn on the fly in terms of having the ball and i'm glad you brought up almon because i think julie i don't think i don't think julie shoots enough it's almost it feels intentional uh that she doesn't shoot um but julie really takes pride in facilitation and i think marina playing with another competitor like sykes and with julie um has learned from them too so and like this is like the normal career progression it's not like it's like it's it's not easy to hit the hit the ground running right away in that league i mean your year eight year nine is when a lot of players not just marina that find their stride but having some other uh elite ball yeah uh in her you know play with skylar and in miami was another person who i think probably gave her a tip or two about how to read a defense did you feel like even as she was going through those pains like could you feel her confidence yeah yeah i mean like the game it that game in philly where she scored already 27 points in five minutes like i think that was insane i really believe from that point on because she only played in three games year one on rival she had the calf injury um i i really believe that kind of gave her like a pat on the back like someone spoke gave her kind of a her conscience in her ear was like you're you're this good you can you can be this good dj i mentioned dj already but dj put out a post i think it was on twitter or threads and he said i told marina in you know six months ago that you are one of the best scores in the world and you can be an all-star you should be an all-star like you're that good so yeah being empowered being trusted having people that believe in you and i think she would acknowledge that when you go back to that you know she was in la of course you know candace parker's joke that why did we let marina mabry go but you go la dallas chicago she's still learning figuring it out there's other really other really really good players on those teams that need the basketball she had was choosing cough for a year in chicago she was at the rique um and alicia gray i think actually together in dallas you go down the line she found her way into a prominent role as a second round pick on that on a really that really good notre dame team yeah and yeah the second round pick piece sorry go ahead no and it just it is just funny because then i thinking back to friday night it's like look at jessica shepherd another second round pick role played her role beautifully um at notre dame also and arique has really found her stride and her role has really bought into what they're doing don't need to take 25 shots a night you're gonna get there's gonna be nights you might take 17 18 but it's in the flow of the game and the flow of the offense and having everyone having page beckers is good and az fudd being drafted but having multiple i think what you're saying is you're building around the league you've this is your big picture point about scorings up freedom of movement guards are more skilled they're bigger faster stronger than ever before their skill level but also teams are building it now where there are multiple threats on the floor that can handle the ball and put you into an offensive set that is you yeah you lead up to one person um that could be problematic over the course of a 40 minute game 44 game season yeah they're overburdened right but you're right you're right you're right you're right you're right you're exactly right like i think about minnesota olivia miles and courtney williams both at the top of the league with with their pick and roll handling and and stuff like toronto basically has when they're healthy three-headed four-headed monster yeah and kiki's fit in nicely but that allows amazing yeah that allows kiki to kind of grow into it i don't have to put this all on me you know olivia has done a terrific job with it but when she went down courtney slid right in you courtney hadn't played point guard all year yeah they didn't win that game against connecticut the one game olivia missed yeah but offensively their offense wasn't the problem they just couldn't they couldn't stop the bleeding defensively the offense wasn't the problem yeah um so that's a credit to the staffs um you're seeing cheryl becky stephanie white um you know jose i mean there's a lot of coaches that have adapted um put their as i'm a big i'm a big proponent of this whether you're drafted free agency where so again you don't become a free agent unrestricted free agent in that league for a long time it's a it's a lot like the nba now with um players have their own those rights before they get out of unrestricted free agency where where you land matters what system you're in matters and i think a lot of times and i understand fans um just general viewers they want that instant pop you know if someone gets picked high well you get picked high but if it doesn't work and it doesn't fit their game you know but like i don't know i mean no az az's had the opportunity just to kind of figure it out a really good team and that's great i think that i mean folks were losing their minds that you came off the bench at the start of the year i'm like do you see their other guards they got really good guards um they don't you don't need to do this alone you don't need to take the baton and um you're allowed to do this alone you don't need to do this alone you don't need to do this alone you're allowed to be a rookie yeah yeah all these teams also have really great connectors right like for for for the tempo it's another guard in all i'm on right with dallas it's jess shep and then with indiana you've got alia boston like that's that's part of like that's that's kind of a key ingredient in making all of this work um well and and with caitlin caitlin's been in and out because of the minutes restriction and that's tricky that's hard as a coach and even you know ty's come ty harris has come in who played for stephanie in connecticut she's come in to kind of set up shop uh but it's hard to get in any sort of a flow because i know just maybe maybe i'm wrong but if i remember correctly going back to training camp indiana's whole idea was we're going to try and let oh because alia did this at unrivaled we're going to let alia bring the ball up and get us into stuff kelsey can bring it up and go you know go one-on-one if she has to caitlin's going to bring it up uh and caitlin provides a different look because of her range so she's picked up and that changes how um you flow your your offense but they haven't been able to get into any sort of rhythm because of the uh because boston's been in and out and so is caitlin so um as we saw last year like it's it it's a 44 game sprint there's almost a game every other night um that olympic break or that feba break will be great but i think some coaches are probably uh worried about it i would think because you could come out of it you got like a week and a half and then you're into the playoffs that's true especially for yeah especially for the teams that have a lot of players going yeah it's tricky yeah it's it's it's interesting like i feel like when we talk about all these teams that are having scoring surges based on you know guard scoring i look at indiana and i almost feel like they just haven't really figured out that balance yet like so kelsey is having an absolutely torrid season and she continued that yesterday right um but the the game started with this play like i think kelsey's first bucket is she's attacking roll and you know she's only thinking about scoring which is fine i want kelsey mitchell to only be thinking about scoring right now she is on the kind of heater that demands that you basically indulge it and see how far she can get with it but at the same time they've got caitlin clark coming across like open for three um off of the screen and that to me just like caitlin got some good caitlin got some good looks last night too how they kind of ran it the way she can buzz around off uh off like flare screens and whatnot so i i mean the ace has laid an egg that was more of a story to me definitely they've done this now but indiana their defense view they finally put together a nice it's amazing what happens if you don't allow a hundred points like yeah it's it i don't mean to sound like i'm uh this is more like it's amazing if you get stops then you can get out and they can't set up defensively the ball's going in the hoop every they're gonna get a chance to get back set their defense and then you're gonna get picked up full court you don't when you make when you get stopped you don't have to do that no matter who's got the ball and even look at their shot distribution 16 shots a night for kelsey caitlin's got about 15 a game and alia boston's at 12 so they've got a pretty evenly dispersed dallas has that um as well as like kind of an evenly dispersed um shot chart at least their game yesterday or their game on sunday night rather against um against chicago so yeah definitely it was the thing like the The thing with the fever though, is that like when you look at Caitlin and Kelsey and off the court like their numbers when they play together it should be a little bit better than it has been um just given i think the way that those two players naturally should fit together and the way that we're seeing it across the league but for some reason with those two it just feels like they haven't found the synergy and i've been looking into this and it's weird like maybe they just need to rep it out but they both get because like they both get the majority of the points in the pick and roll and in transition they obviously fit very well naturally together on paper right like you've got elite playmaker next to an elite scorer and they both like to play with pace um but for some reason i feel like when i watch the fever it's like if kelsey mitchell is the one that's cooking then caitlin becomes a glorified floor spacer and if caitlin's the one that's cooking kelsey mitchell becomes a glorified floor spacer and maybe this is something that just fixes fixes itself but i think like the question for me for the rest of the indiana fever season is do we have a fit problem or do we have like a players around them problem because if you look at courtney williams and olivia miles they have a lot of spacing around them and right now if you're the fever you can leave mobileings open in the corner you know like she'll she'll punish you every once in a while lexi is just having a tough scoring season maybe it's time to put sophie cunningham in the starting with the tear that she's on but like there are just a number of plays where the ball funnels down right like we'll go back to like marina marina like marina gets the ball to julie alamond who gets it to niara sabli for a layup right caitlin kelsey they get the ball down to to alia boston who is incredible four on three against the advantages but she gets it to mobileings for basically these short jumpers right so maybe it's like maybe that's why we're seeing kk timpson play a little bit more i think there's some nice plays where she was able to explode to the hoop off these rolls and actually get a layup maisha hines allen wasn't really part of the plan yesterday but she's probably a player that can get layups as well but it just feels like where these other teams are starting to maximize what they're able to do with their guards and look i mean the tempo they have plenty of their own problems but i do think that they're if they found they are finding a way to make the most of marina's gravity i just don't think the fever have done the same thing yeah i would agree i think um i mean it's easy easy to say this now she's an all-star starter but you know i think they're missing natasha howard you know like howard might not be now she's pouring it she's scoring the ball more because fees out but just her presence as a screener been there done that uh to alleviate some of the attention hey you know and natasha howard can go up and set a really hard screen and do it you need to do off of a pick and roll even if she doesn't get the ball now that's very alia boston dependent and i think obviously early in the year she's going to be able to do that so i think that's where a lot of players have adjusted alia has been better staying out of foul trouble for sure i would stick with sophie off the bench i think she's really embraced it um becoming coming in like a microwave like jewel lloyd has for example in in vegas um yeah they i think they thought they'd get more out of mo um and they more out alexi and that's kind of that's kind of where they're at they need those other players to be more uh more of a threat but yeah i think like i said a few minutes ago i think the key to the whole thing is like they just haven't alia's out and caitlin play caitlin's on a minute's restriction and you know she only played 13 games last year so they've had that one season you consider it stephanie white's second year caitlin's first year with christy sides they haven't had a lot of repetition with what steph's doing um you know when steph one season i remember um with steph that i found was was was her most impressive was when brie jones tore her achilles with connecticut in 2023 steph's first year and what happened was it actually became more of like okay alissa thomas you're gonna play the point rebecca allen started and beck had one of her best seasons outside of maybe one or two in new york but beck was there starting and they played a five-out offense and let at just kind of read the defense and make the right play with diwana as well as um of course i was gonna start naming names i'm drawing a blank on how the team was maybe hi maybe ty harris yeah yeah it's high yeah that sounds right ty dejanay at diwana and beck something like that i think um anyway yeah i think um yeah because mo mo hit a three last night but mo doesn't hit you know alias hit the creeds and it unrivaled kind of uh uncovered that part of her game too um like i said i think if they're gonna i think steph's gotta look at it and say first and foremost we gotta get the defense right if we can get stops it's gonna make our offense look better that was one of their better defensive games they gotta string some together now say so to the long and short of it indiana is gonna is gonna probably get in the playoffs and then we need to see i don't still quite know what their identity is if that's that's like no i think they look like almost a different team every day night like i was going to suggest like when you when you when you look at uh connect like that connecticut team right like what you're talking about there is a lot of spacing a lot of speed and a lot of defense all at all at once right and you have a lot of versatility and i wonder maybe maybe they just need to go with alia at the five more often and like just play a little bit smaller have lexi and sophie and ty harris in some of these guards like you have you do because they do have the guards they do have the guards they're just not fully utilizing them um on the court at even with with raven johnson like you can have her play like a small forward position i think that's part of the reason that they brought her in as well but they have sort of still stuck with like the traditional two big lineup even though you're just seeing that their front court depth is really not what they had hoped it would be um prior to the season starting but you're absolutely right like i do think that this team is still just figuring out what they actually want to look like on the court and i do think that even the like the defense the way that they play defense changes almost on a nightly basis like based on who they have on the court and i do think that even the availability and identity are obviously very deeply closely tied together um as well there was the joke or was it was it uh i think sophie shared it at a um it was at a shoot around media avail after their recent game and they were like we got one we're playing one defensive coverage right now because we gotta get it right um and now they just had eight days off so maybe we'll see some more mixed in right like i am very curious what they look like um you know they had eight days sparks absolute clunker but as you know sometimes um in order for the like it actually takes like a week or two to to see like those those coverages really get baked into where you and i can see it in in a game um all right let's talk about page let's let's talk about page who i think is like honestly um just doing like supernova shit right now like i don't even i don't even know what's called like uh but you you called that game um yeah that's against the tempo where i was so impressed i think by just the way that she's kind of at this place now where she's not just taking what the defense is giving her i think page has historically always been really good at reading the game but right now um she's at this place where she's deciding what she's going to take from the defense and even if you do double her like there was this great play i think in that game where um you know i think i think she was like on the left block and you know they're bringing they're shading help and usually when they shade in help they're not going to be able to help page starts to look for the open man and she's like okay so you're instead now she's like okay so you're gonna not let me go left cool i'm gonna dribble to the right pump fake and hit a mid-range jumper and i think she she's right now at this place where she realizes she can score from anywhere on the court that she wants to and yes she's an excellent playmaker yes her identity has never really been tied to isolation basketball it's very instinctive for her to trust her teammate to trust the pass trust the process that's all these things that we love about her um but she has leaned into her scoring ability in a way that is just incredible to watch right now yeah there's a uh believe it or not i think there is a the con of playing at uconn is you don't shoot enough and gino gets mad about it you know page was that way uh at times i'm not saying she got older but as she grew into her career at uconn the criticism of gino was she doesn't shoot the ball enough same thing happened to az and the same thing's happening with sarah strong this past year for sure um so with that said there's the good part about that is they share it they're very unselfish page puts them in uh the right spots and plays through the offense um her handle is off the charts it is off the charts and that some of those moves it was like a break dancer yogi bar it was uh that smooth that good um and yeah i think look we'd be remiss not to mention how you know shepherd shepherd grabbing rebounds especially offensive rebounds to wear out the defense has allowed for spray outs for threes that's the the one achilles heel for dallas is just their inconsistency from the outside now they had a great second half last friday um but yeah page has got a grasp for this thing and i think she just she is now in a position where she feels okay i felt the game out I can go take over I think it's seven of her last she scored at least 20 points um yeah I was listening to this Greg Bibb interview from a couple days ago um and he and he's he was he was talking about the fourth quarter scoring and she's and he's saying you know um you know I think back to the confidence is maybe a little bit last year if it wasn't her night early maybe a little bit more deferential from her later in the game and this year if it's not starting good for her it just doesn't seem to matter and she's going to keep doing what she does and she's had some of the best fourth quarters in the game where she started in a slower fashion I think that's been a beautiful thing to watch from her too and it bears itself out in like every every single stat like top three in clutch points um leading the league in fourth quarter points of course but she's also like number two in isolation points and number one in efficiency and I think fans have always said you know like you're such a good scorer let's see you shoot more and now what we're seeing is even as a you're such a good scorer let's see you shoot more and now what we're seeing is even as a increases the quality is staying high like the efficiency has not moved even though the the production has and the turnovers haven't moved either like the scalability of what she's doing is just absolutely insane yeah they lead the league in fourth quarter comebacks I think they've got three of them against Chicago now it's great oh my gosh yeah there's good and bad the leading well it could it can go one or two ways you can lead the league in fourth quarter scoring but is it because you're down 20 going into the fourth and you're just pouring in empty or is it yeah uh the isolation it's a great call um yeah I mean the last thing too on page is that like a lot of it is like you know we're talking about the three-point revolution we're talking about um Marina and Kelsey like the logo threes page is doing with this with a midi like she is going towards a midi when like the rest of the league is running from running away from it I feel like that's instructive as far as like her ability to take over in the clutch too because it just allows her to maneuver well the ball pressure too is I think she's yeah it's a two but a lot of there's a moments and you mentioned the post there was a play in the post she got fouled yeah you get fouled and go to the line you know how else you're supposed to guard her so yeah analytically you know Gino was saying that at nauseam last Tuesday when he did the broadcast with Robin Roberts it's like yeah but a lot of times Paige knows how to bait the defense into a foul and a lot of times in her mid-range pull-ups they're just close enough where she's in that painted area and she she has this lean she has this ability to lean into her shot her follow-through that um just makes her really tough to guard it's honestly a little Stewie-esque right like yeah she's taking mid-rangers but like she's got two feet in the paint and it allows her to maneuver in a way that we haven't seen before um Brendan thank you so much for for hopping on I appreciate you making the time I know you got a lot going on um if anybody's watching Summer League you're gonna hear Brendan on the call for for Amazon Prime and you're obviously always gonna hear him on the WNBA airwaves uh we love what you do here we appreciate you making the time man of course yeah Summer League this week and then I'm off to uh Toronto Friday we've got Tempo and um Atlanta on Island Friday night so oh beautiful beautiful I look forward to that okay well yeah thanks for having me this is a lot of fun this episode is brought to you by Major League Baseball there is nowhere left to go two teams one championship watch the World Series yeah the World Series presented by Capital One on Fox and Fox one no time like October visit mlb.com slash postseason to learn more all right thank you so much to Brendan pleasure to have him on thank you to Stefan always for producing and again if you want to listen to some nerdery over Paige Becker's being in isolation ice queen um and how that's impacting Dallas on a deeper level uh we will be back with that later this week and we'll see you next week until then hope everybody has a great week before this there's this as you celebrate the game take a deeper look at its roots the people grow in the grass paving the lots welding the goalposts inspecting every football the hard working people that make every Sunday possible Carhartt is proud to outfit the crews behind the game visit Carhartt.com join the trades to learn more the mosquito bowl is the incredible true story of four college football stars who walked away from NFL 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