The void which cannot be fathomed or measured | What Mind actually is (Live Satsang) - Untangle Your Mind

Introduction: What is mind? But there's, there's been a word we've been using a bit flippantly, the word mind, right? So let's, let's talk about what is mind. Because if you get to the, the bottom of that one word, that's actually enough to to really understand what is mind because you start with the, the, there's three key categories, right? The three key categories: Me, mind, world There's me, there's the mind, there's the world. If you start questioning any of them and you, you observe, you investigate, you inquire, you start to enter this spiral, and then you're heading towards that. Actually, all these distinctions were wrong, right? You're heading towards the singularity. But let's pick mind. And what is mind the the thing that initially feels most personal is your feelings, your thoughts, like nobody else has access to these. What you see before you That feel like, OK, that is my mind. That is my mind. And the world seems to be shared, right? There's a separate shared world. And then there's my mind. When you look at that, that shared world and say it's big peanut butter, right? What color is peanut butter? It's brown. Peanut butter is brown. But what if this color blindness to red? Peanut butter example: Everything is subjective Then peanut butter is green. Speaker 2 And it it's. Speaker 1 The world which we took to be shared to be like, that's an objective world. It's again entirely subjective. So that is mind. So the feelings were mind taught his mind. What you're seeing. Colors are mind, shapes are mind. And you heard the sound. There's a distance from that where the source originated with the sound originate, sorry. And where you seem to be right, there's a distance. But those two points, if, if one of them is outside mind, then it cannot be experienced. So those two points which seems to be where I am, which is actually just the placeholder for where the body seems to be and where the sound originates, that's also mind, right? So when we talk about space and space is like already seems to be infinite, infinite space. But is the mind at a point in space or is all the points of space that you've ever observed you can imagine the inside mind? Space appears IN mind, not mind in space It's actually the other way around as you see it, right? The dream space appears in the mind, the waking space appears in the mind. OK, so you stir, stir it up a bit, question the mind. You end up with it's just a all consuming category mind, right? And you, and then you get to that point where, like Master Huenang said, all things in the universe are the essence of mind itself. Master Huineng: "All things are the Essence of Mind" There's no other thing like how Master Huang PO said it. All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are the one mind and nothing else besides which nothing exists, right? So often you know, you go from one word to the next, the next concept, and so on. But the mind itself is just so powerful when you. Speaker 2 Investigate. It's going to. Speaker 1 Paraphrase Huang PO here, right? Huang Po: The void which cannot be fathomed So he said, the mind is like a void which cannot be fathomed or measured. It's neither green or yellow, nor long or short. It's all true. It's about this mind, right? It's what you see before you. But as soon as you think about it, you enter, you go into error. That's what the Zen master would say. As soon as you reason, you're going into error. But all the Buddhas, all the sentient beings, you are the one mind and nothing. Speaker 2 Else All right, let's let's start from there. Speaker 3 Just real quick, when you say in this context the mind is the same as consciousness sentience, right? Q&A: Is mind the same as consciousness, sentience? Yeah, it's this becomes all all-encompassing, right? We're starting because what we're doing is we're taking a concept which is there, picking it apart. Now it's grown into, yes, it's there. There's nothing else. That is it. Yes. The essence of mind is sentience, right? The essence of mind, like if the very basis before any other thing which could be called mind can be their experience, colors, whatever, right? All that stuff. The very basis must be sanctions or awareness or consciousness, however we call it. But that's the essence of mind which also brings it very close home, right? Because you are what is sentient. Mind, consciousness, awareness—all the same Yeah, what is where? So again, it's not me and the mind. You, the Buddha. All sentient entities are the one mind, and there's no other Buddha and no other minds except this mind. Q&A: Difference between consciousness, awareness, and mind? So I still can't quite understand or get the difference between consciousness, awareness and mind then. Speaker 1 There's no difference. It's all the same. Yeah, because we we're starting with, it's just we're picking apart the different distinctions that were there, right. And you might end up with a favorite word. But actually non duality means there are no distinctions, no dualities, right? So we if we start with mine and we question deeply, yet I've had non duality. We start with the world, we question deeply. Non duality questioned I what is the self? Same point you reach, right? And when you look at Zen, they just do it very simply. I'll, I'll. That's why I often return to those teachings. Like they just use the word mind. Why do you need to create new words like I created sentience? You. We wouldn't have heard it in the context of spirituality before. It's just, it hit me that way. Right, Because often you've used up all the words. Consciousness is the one I use the least because you've used it a lot. It's become hollow. Yeah. There's no, it doesn't hit you. It doesn't invoke what we're trying to invoke. We were pointing back to what is real, what is true. But in the end, yeah, it's all the same. We're arriving at nonduality Because if you don't have consciousness, is there any point? Like what are we talking about when we say mind, right? So that's the core. The core is the must be sanctions. But if there's only sanctions and no experience, well, there's no nothing to talk about. The all-consuming category: Mind Then you get experience. Then you can start to make distinctions. But still, nothing new has been born. Right? Because if you go from no experience to experience, has anything been boring? Nothing new got created. Yeah, this experience appeared just like you were sleeping. A dream appears. Nothing new gets created. You you're molding what's there into whatever that experience is. It can be molded into sound and shape and feeling and whatever the whole it's that's it's the Infinity of the mind. Why we need new words (like "Sentience") That is why it is the void, like the void which cannot be fathomed or measured. Then he goes on this list song for he goes on this list of it not long and sure it cannot. It's not in the category of things that exist or not exist because those are all phenomena that would appear and disappear in the mind. So it's all these ways we are defining what is. Infinity has the Infinity of infinities. Now if you talk of infinite space, and space still needs an Infinity in which it exists. Yes, I see some hands raised Sakina. Speaker 5 So you kind of answered some of the questions that so mind is just essence sanctions essence and chromate experience, everything arises correct? Nothing new has been born Yes, yes. Speaker 5 So it could be anything, anything. And at the same time, everything that arises is still, is still a dream. Speaker 1 See when? Yeah. So if you, if you observe how a dream appears, if you just close your eyes and you just watch that space, something will appear. How did that appear? Not it didn't. Didn't there was no new creation? I think you got created. But the vision you see with the eyes closed, it's there. You can't deny it in the moment. It's there. A second later you'll wonder because you know, we're like, oh, it's not a physical thing. What did I see? But you didn't see something, right? A pattern over their image. So what is that image made of? Nothing, right? There's no substance, but the substance, if you're going to call it that, is mind, because as you investigate, there's nothing else or everything falls into mind. Speaker 5 So sanctions, awareness and void same. How dreams appear Yeah, It's just pointing out different aspects, right? Because reality is it's simple, but it also has these different ways you could, you could, you could try to express it, right? Q&A: Mind as sentient essence You can express the magnificence of the Infinity of it. Like so there's when we say sentience or awareness, we're trying to point out it's not dead. That's what being alive means. When there's, there's a possibility of perception, there's the capacity for experience, something to appear. That is first of all, that must be there. Otherwise you can't get going. You're stuck at nothing. They can never be anything, right? So even if the the model of the universe where there's a Big Bang and the universe gets created and all that, you never get to life, there would never be experience, right? So it's the same as nothing. If there's no experience, it's the same as nothing. Speaker 5 But this nothing. Sorry. Go ahead, go ahead. Sorry. Speaker 1 No, no, you asked. Speaker 5 So this nothing is full potential, full potential of whatever. The void and awareness—pointing out different aspects Yes. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 And what we disappear? It's, it's not just at the abstract idea, because when we say awareness, everyone here knows what awareness means because you are what is aware, right? And because it's taken in the thinking mind where being aware is taken for granted. Sure, yet to be alive is to be aware of whatever, but there's so many people who are aware and all that kind of thinking goes on. So the essence is being missed. When we say awareness, now it's about this infinite void. Yeah, we'll get to void. But this infinite capacity and that is aware. It's not. There's separate things that are aware. The capacity, the basis of the capacity is what we, what can be said is aware. And that's why the capacity is called awareness. It's just something very fundamental to this Infinity in which things appear. At first you must have that quality of being aware. Then why call it the void, right? The void sound like, oh, there's nothing there, nothing there. But there is. It is a void. Yeah. Because for anything to appear, you start from, and there's something very core to a human mind as well, that there must be nothing. And then something appears when you're born. Sentience must be there first Before that you were nothing. And then there's also after this life and there's nothing. So that belief is already there. And then the scientists describe things also, they find evidence for that, right? So the void is just, it's this, this, this hints of truth already in the, in the human psyche, right? You can't have something first, something appears later. You start from zero, then you have one, but is there one if you started from zero? Actually what's happened is you add up all the things that always end up as zero that they've paired within a void. So the void is if you look, try to look at it, then it's a void, it's emptiness, it's nothing there. If you try look within, then it's awareness itself to these again, different aspects of the same reality, which is actually non dual. But because we're now describing different aspects, it again feels like is it a void? Is it awareness? What is it? I'm sure he wanted to say something. Q&A: Separation between awareness and mental activities? Yeah. First of all, thank you so much for what you're doing. Thank you. Yeah, I actually I have some question, but following the previous discussion, I mean maybe what is a bit confusing me like in the terms at least. So there is, you know, this notion of awareness like this pure that we can feel intuitively and recognize very deeply in ourselves versus the different mental activities of the mind, thoughts conditioned, you know, behaviour And the in my intuitive experience, like there is intuitive feeling that, you know, there is kind of separation between the two, right. This is not the one that is the deeper where entity kind of and different experiences, which is, which is kind of a mental mind activities. So, so this is a bit confusing me. And of course, I guess that whatever we try to grasp, it's it's a mind we cannot really grasp the reality. But still, can you please speak a bit about this? Like in my feeling there is a separation but eventually everything is 1 in my mind I guess cannot really grasp. Speaker 2 Yes, sure. Speaker 1 So, so that's captured in that, in that statement that it is what you see before you, but if you begin to reason about it, you at once fall into error. What it's trying to say is that as soon as we use thought, then we have different names for things. We have an understanding of how processes work and so on. Right. So then, then these many distinctions, all those distinctions are based on this human instrument and how it perceives the world, right? You've got a certain kind of eyes and hearing and so on and how the how the language also effects how you think. So when we reason about it, we're breaking down what is the whole, right? We're saying, OK, this we're going to call peanut butter and color brown and so on and so forth, right. "As soon as you reason, you fall into error" But then do not reason about it and just just observe the perception. Can you separate it from what is being called mind, Right. That's what we started with, that as you go deeper, your question, what is mind? You start with actually just my thinking and my feelings is mind. Then you look at colors and if you question it, you think about it a bit deeper. Even you're thinking, it breaks it down because colors are not separate to mind. Yeah, that part is clear. Oh, is that? Yeah, I, I I think so. Like, you know, intellectually, like eventually there's no direct touch in this reality. The reality is yourself or, or mind. Nothing else we can see, right? Nothing else we can really touch. We can only experience ourself. Yes, that's right. So what you're experiencing is the activity of a brain yeah. Let's say we take that that explanation. So when you experience all of the different categories and so on, that's what the brain has understood of the world understood not in a sense that it is conscious, but in a computational sense, right it's it's understood so you experience that that does not change that what you experience. Q&A: Colors are not separate from mind If we if we're questioning what is the essence of experience, what is a phenomenon made of? And so we're. There's one distinction that's helpful then is there's the phenomena and then there's the numenon, if you've heard of that. The numenon means the thing in itself, right? So there's a thing as it appears, but then what is the thing in reality? What is it really? And that's what this inquiry is about, not how it appears, but what is it really. And the in philosophy, because this came from Western philosophy, Numenon and phenomenon, it's, it's just a hard problem. You're just stuck there because you can never tell what The thing is in itself unless you are that thing. But there is one avenue of inquiry and that is if you are such a thing, you just inquire, what am I right? Then you will arrive at the numenon, the thing in itself. So what is the thing in itself when I see a bottle? Yeah, I don't. I can't say what is the bottle in reality, but I can't say what am I. The Noumenon vs phenomena (thing-in-itself vs appearance) And as you go into that, then yes, I am nothing. Except there's one quality which is undeniable that I am aware, right. That is the the quality of the nomenon to be aware. It's not a quality of the phenomenon. The quality of the phenomena would be shapes and colours and textures and all that. But that is the quality of a phenomena. Not not the thing as it is, but the thing as it appears. Yeah, but, but, but my intellectual mind says I don't, I can't. I mean, so I can't know only myself. I don't, I can't really know the reality because eventually. So that's why then. So let's go back to that statement from Huang PO, right? The Buddha and all sentient beings are the one mind and nothing else, right. And he also says besides which nothing exists. So when you arrive at this is what the mind is, there's just no room left for me and someone else being something else. Yeah, because any something else would be a phenomena and not the nomenon. But you've arrived at what the nomenon is. I am aware. That is the only quality that I can attribute to I The rest isn't phenomenon. Yeah, it's subjective and phenomenal. It's not the quality of the nomenon. So if, if I am what is aware now I imagine Sasha, Yeah, as a different person. Only by being the thing can you know what it is The person is the phenomena and the parents and all that. But if I know who are, who is Sasha really? You cannot be anything other than awareness. You are the nomenon. Either you're a complete. I'm talking to a wall right now. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 There's no point because there's no ascensions on the other side. Or you recognize that over there behind the phenomena, the one that would hear these words is the nomenon. There cannot be two kinds of nomenons. There's no plural for it. And this new melon is is is is you or me, right. The same one. This is like, yeah, so when you so that's right. We we're if you try to imagine me as a separate person, right. How would you make that distinction? Appearance, right. The sound of my some experience. Yeah. The image, the, the, the voice. Yeah. The the, the, the phenomenons that I can't experience. So all these are qualities of the phenomena, but not of the numenon, the thing in itself, right. So if you recognize that here there is that you're talking away with with words are coming from, there's also an experience of the words, not as the listener, but where the voice is coming from, right. 22 streams of experience and all these other streams of experience going on right now, What would it need for those streams to also be experienced? You cannot be anything other than awareness That would be the nomenon, right? There's no other, there's no alternatives. When we say, when you, when that inside is said with such conviction, all the Buddhas and all sentient beings are the one mind besides which nothing exists. You arrived at that point, but just there's no other possibility. All that is jumped off because now you have gotten to the essence of what the mind is, which is what I started with. If you get to the bottom of this one word, that's enough because you've cut away everything off because those were just attributes of a particular, specific phenomena, but not of that which is aware. And if we have this conversation, yeah, I've already admitted that on this side, who you're talking to is the nominal. Yeah. As you know, at some point we might be talking to robots who are not sentient and so on. Yes, Peace Center. Q&A: Form is emptiness, emptiness is form No, we can't hear you. Speaker 4 My name is Rachel. Rachel, just nice second session with you. All of this is taking me back to emptiness is form and form is emptiness. And so I have meditated on that a lot because my whole, my, my singular desire is to have a right view instead of experiencing through memory and conditioning. So what you're saying about the mind goes back to that one, one phrase, that those two phrases, form is emptiness and emptiness is form. So there's nothing but emptiness, and all comes from emptiness, which means that there is emptiness in everything. Speaker 1 Means everything is everything. Yeah. Because if you start with nothing, Yeah, let's just take water. You start with water and all you have water. What are you going to get? You might get ice. Is ice not water? Speaker 4 It just sounds like a cosmic. Speaker 6 Joke. Speaker 2 Really. It's a yeah, but when? Taking water as analogy Form is emptiness. When you meditate on it, it it, it helps to also bring it back to the body because the body is a form, right? This body itself is emptiness. Yeah, there's still a lot of conflict. Something goes on and I still want to get rid of this or that mind or the body and so on. But every aspect of whatever is emptiness that soon if if there's two things right, if there's nothing and something physical and mental, whatever, then that's duality. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 So is it? Is it there's a duality in that reality has a dualistic nature, which would be which is just impossible once you even to see it. Form is emptiness brought back to the body But yeah, that's the inquiry, is there? Speaker 2 Form. Speaker 1 It has appeared out of nothing and I'll go back to nothing. Well. Speaker 4 It's almost like the duality is just, it's like having a mirror. There's nothing in the mirror but but here the eyes, because of the the biology of the apparatus, there's the perception that something is being seen in the mirror and all that. This just goes back to memory and thought and memory and thought, memory and thought. But there is nothing solid anywhere. It's all stories. The solidity of emptiness (this is not metaphorical) I don't quite see it that way. Right. So often it's said that like thought is, if you took away thought, then it's not that there's a what you see is a void. You still see all this. It's just you might not be able to name it, but this emptiness is solid. The solidity of something. Even as you hit something hard, you feel that physical, what is called physical pain or a physical object. What is that solidity, right? Speaker 2 What? Speaker 1 What thing is it that you could say that is the solid thing because we've already this is after you've seen through word that everything is mind, right? And then you hold something and OK, this is solid. I don't need to think about it. This is solid. That solidity is is not. This is not an attribute of the object. It's, it's showing you how real all this is. And the reality of all this, it cannot be attributed to an objective world, a physical world, because we already passed that. We've seen through that this is all not objective. This is all mind. So now in a way, this, this idea, we're still looking for something. So I haven't realized. So I would like to realize emptiness or whatever, like everything is proving it like because once you've again, if you've gone to the bottom of how all-encompassing this the mind is, then everything is showing you that Infinity. Speaker 2 It's I don't know. The solidity IS the reality of reality But isn't physics showing us that nothing is really solid as it appears to be? Speaker 1 Yeah. So it's not solid in terms of as as an objective thing. Yeah. But we are not going from that perspective in reality. Yeah, they are. You come across solid objects. But once you see that there are no objects, that everything is subjective, then you should question what is this solidity. The solidity is still there. Yeah. You don't need conviction when you understand what that solidity is. You don't need reminders. You don't need to remember. It's see if we, if we start from that point that everything is mind. My colors, shapes, sounds, objects are not outside mind. The world has now been consumed. Now this only mind. So now when something is solid, that is emptiness appearing as form, it is still emptiness. And I touch something, I am touching emptiness. Yeah. And having understood that I am not other than emptiness like this, every purpose meant going on of what used to be the solidity of the ground or solidity of objects. Now this is the solidity of reality, how real reality is the reality of reality. Communication and the transmission of mind It's crazy. The words get stupid, but you've got to see it. Like you said, seeing the right view. This is the right view, because once you've already seen everything is mind, then you go back to that presence of objects, the sensations, how real they are, the depth of emotion and all that is painting for you. Speaker 2 It's a, It's a Sorry. Speaker 1 Nothing very, very good at explaining things today. Speaker 4 Words don't. Words don't do it justice. It's, it's like my husband and I, we were having a conversation and we were talking about what can we really know when we're communicating And communication is, is so difficult because you have a picture in your head and you're trying to use words to show me what that picture is. But my point of risk of of my perspective and my conditioning is different from yours. So the words you're using is triggering a totally different image in my memory because my memory and conditioning is different. So what you're trying to share for all of us, we're all interpreting what the words you're saying differently, so there will always be confusion. But how can? Speaker 1 There be some. Speaker 4 Clarity. How can there be some clarity? Speaker 1 Yeah, it just needs one thing to land right. I'm not trying to pass an idea in my head into your head. No, that's not what's going on. Yeah, because this is called the transmission of mind. But it is not the transmission of a personal mind or personal thought or concept of the world to another mind. No, this is the transmission of mind as in understood by Hong Kong. Yeah. Why can I transmit it? Because I know on the other side, I'm. I'm not talking to another person. Not that's not who I'm talking to. If the words are being heard, if there's an understanding of the words that is being perceived by the numenon. So when we both we understand English. So I can use words which are common. Yeah. To transmit the truth. And the truth can be transmitted because it's only pointing out what you are. Why clarity CAN be transmitted It's not pointing to a phenomena which are subjective, right. And then, you know, we could have an argument that peanut butter is brown and green, but we're not talking about the phenomena. That is why clarity can be transmitted. Speaker 4 OK. Oh, thank you for that. Speaker 1 So when I say solid, there's no confusion. It's just you're still not. You need to maybe look at it again, Right. When we say solid, it's quite clear what solid means, right? Any confusion? No, the ground is solid. Do you agree? Yeah. Speaker 5 Yeah, the ground. Speaker 4 Hold the glass, yes. Speaker 1 Yes, when when the ground is solid, if you look at the physics, you can't touch the ground, right, because the the electrons in your feet is going to push. The electrons in the ground is never going to touch. But we associate solidity with touch. I'm touching something. You're not touching anything. The neurons and the nerve cells send information to the brain. You feel that. So what is that solidity? That is the solidity of awareness. It is not the solidity of the thing. So I'm taking a concept you already have, an experience you have, and I'm showing you what it means in the right view, which you already have seen. What is solidity actually revealing? So that is the right view and is still the old view. And the old view will be taken over by the right wheel because all the old wheel concepts, they're based on the right wheel, but they were overlaid with other things like solidity got hijacked by I'm touching a solid object. Well, now there's no solid objects. The solidity is still there. What is it telling you? Or is there still a solid object do you think? Speaker 4 No. Speaker 2 Yeah, because if, if. Speaker 4 Everything is but I understand what you're saying, but but in my in this mind, in this mind, in this perception, I should say in this perception, what I'm hearing is it's all going back to the original emptiness. And so whatever is being said is about. So my view of the pointing is it goes back to the original emptiness. And that that original emptiness is the sentence. It is nothing in everything. It is nothing in the source of everything. Speaker 1 It's not the source because everything is that right. There's there's no source and 2nd coming or creation. Actually there's never been any creation, which is what we think. Emptiness as infinite capacity If it's not been nothing, you can never have anything. Yeah. So we start with emptiness, always emptiness. So there's no the the idea of creation is again not the right view because it's taken the idea of a beginning of time and step by step things getting created and saying that is reality. Speaker 4 It's a story. Speaker 1 That is a secondary view. It is not not the right. Speaker 4 View. It's not the original right view. Speaker 1 And emptiness, it's, it's kind of, it's a word which doesn't quite resonate. Yeah, it's sure. In a way, it's, it's a wonderful word because it's describing this. This capacity is an infinite capacity. Emptiness is the capacity to contain anything. Sure. But the other view I came from is Advaita Vedanta. And emptiness can never be thought of or seen as something related to eye. It's very hard. Yeah, eventually you might see it. Yeah, like in but the self as you go in into the self, it's not empty. It's full. Yeah, it's fullness. So again, the the like, I'm not a I'm not a dead thing. I'm not a. Speaker 4 Yeah, they're not a empty shell. Speaker 1 So you will those emptiness is the translation, right? You will see it in, in a way that it's, it's just the word sounds like, oh, why did we choose that word in English? And then in my language, there's a, there's a word which resonated with me. So the word for this is shunyata, right? Sannata: Perfect silence WITH listening And emptiness, Shunyata. Actually, there's no, maybe no relation. Maybe there's a relation. But there's a word I know of called Sonata. Sonata is in Urdu is in is in perfect silence, perfect silence. But in that word is the assumption that within the silence there's a listening. It's silence, but also listening. And there's no sound. And that's when Hampton is started to resonate. Yeah, Sonata, perfect silence, no sound to listen to, but the listening is still there. So there's the possibility that if there's a sound, it will be heard. That is emptiness. And in there there's already a listening. The only thing missing is there's no movement yet in an infinite emptiness outside of time. Like it's not even an Infinity of time, it's just perpetually right. There's the possibility of anything to appear. Space-time has appeared. Speaker 4 I can't. I can't say I comprehend this because I don't. My limitation in my own education makes it quite challenging to to openly receive what you're you're transmitting. It's it's. Speaker 1 Quite important because I get to, I get to carry it away. Q&A: Resistance to understanding The the main point was very simple. Speaker 4 No, no, you didn't. You, you, you explained it very well. But one of the things I've become aware of listening to different teachers is not being totally open to what is being transmitted. There's a, there's still a resistance, and that resistance makes the comprehension murky. So when, when looking at the process of this one, that is something I've become very aware of and I I don't know how to move beyond that. Speaker 1 So whatever is murky or has on any of those qualities would be the quality of a particular sound. But what you want to understand is the emptiness, which is not the sound, it is the silence. And that silence itself, there's a listening, yeah. You can't separate silence from listening. Turn towards the fundamental basis Otherwise, there's no such thing as silence either. Speaker 4 There's no such thing as listening either, without. Speaker 1 It so it's, it's a combined word, which I was like, like, you know, it was there in my language Sonata or maybe I understood the word wrong because I'm not good at my language. But in my mind, silent listening, silence and listening as one fundamental basis for sound. So when extended to just all kinds of experience, anything where we say it's murky or so on and so forth, we gain inspecting, putting a magnifying glass on one phenomena, one stream of thought. But what we want to turn towards is the fundamental basis of all phenomena, which is the nomenon, which is you, Besides which there are no other Buddhas and no other minds. Speaker 4 Thank you. Q&A: What attitude toward sensations? Shun like poison? Another. Speaker 3 So I wanted it like a practical advice I want to ask. So what should like in practicing towards this? What should the attitude be towards sanctions itself? Meaning, OK, you know, it's, you feel it. It's not a person that sees I, I get that. And it's a sentience itself, basically. So all the, all these senses, all these experiences that we are having, but the sentience itself is appearing. What should I because if you're acutely aware of those, what, what you experience and that's a distraction, right? So I'm kind of stuck in like, what should I, I get it? It's a, it's like a, the sentence is not a person, it's the sentence itself. But what should be my attitude towards that? You see what I'm saying? Should I should I, should I like I heard somewhere like the shun the experience of the senses like poison say is that is that data to like just draw your attention away from what you're sensing per SE, just the way you you draw it away from the thoughts is that should be the attitude or practice. Speaker 1 So that's, that's a line from the Aishhtabakra Gita to, to shun the sensor like poison. That's there's a time to do that. Finding new dimensions in experience (depth, light) OK, but I think I would do it. I, I did that during meditation. OK, so when you sit, then you shun everything, shun everything, go back into the emptiness, you've gone, there's no you, there's nothing. And then you notice experience appear and there's a demonstration of emptiness form. Form is emptiness, emptiness form and all that, right? So that can be an instruction to see it clearly. However, the other way is like you're, if you already have starting to see that sanctions is all there is, right? The experience is not separate to the sanctions. So just now when I was saying, what is the solidity telling you, right. So every experience will have some dimension to it, like light. What is this? Like what is this brightness, right. What is it? It's the brightness of sanctions. It's not the brightness of the sun. Yeah, You don't have any. There's no access to the sun. That would be like you as a thing object, perceiving an object in the world. But we are past that, right? I think everyone listens to my channel. It has. It's gone past that. So I don't start there. We're not starting there. OK. You have seen that the whole world is subjective. So when you see the sun that is appearing in the mind, it is a phenomena in the mind. The light you perceive is not the light of physics So then what is this light? Yeah, I also explain it to like the the light rays going to the eye. That's the end of the story of the light of physics. So the light you perceive is not the light of physics. What is it the light of? So anything you experiencing, you can find a dimension to it, which takes you away from the thinking, the wrong thinking to the right wheel. Yeah. Say I'm feeling sorrow. I'm feeling sorrow. It's considered a negative emotion. Yeah. It won't become a nice emotion. However, in the sorrow you can find there's a dimension called depth. Yeah, I call it depth. And you look that direction. Don't look at sorrow as a thing to run away from. Yeah, but you look at the depth and you say, oh, if my heart is here, how deep does this emotion go? Where is it going? What is this dimension of? You've discovered a new dimension to existing experience. Self-inquiry extended to all experience And each each experience is now pointing you back to the right understanding which I the way I speak. I assume you've all had taste of it or you wouldn't listen to me. Yeah, you would listen to other stuff. This is an odd channel. If it resonates, it means you have already understood the truth at some point. And now my job is just to clear up the top webs. Speaker 3 So it's a little bit like extending the self inquiry. Instead of saying to whom does this thought occur, you basically say to whom does this experience it? Basically whether whatever that is sensing, whatever that is, that might be, and then that's it. That takes you to that depth that you're talking about. Speaker 1 Yes, and you should examine any experience from the right view, right? Because now you know what it's right. The right view is the whole things in the universe are the essence of mind itself, and the essence of mind is equal to sanctions awareness. Examining experience from the right view You have preferred term for reality, right? The fundamental So if everything is that there's no problem who has a problem or the problem is only in this particular thought that appears right now so that you can shun like. Speaker 2 Poison, but you don't need to shun it like. Speaker 1 Poison because even the the thought is amazing. Like where is it? What is it? It's incredible, right? It's like there's a Symphony playing. Why are you aware of that Symphony? Because the Symphony is playing on you. Reality is aware. So if reality is aware, if there's any movement, reality will be aware of that movement. The symphony is playing on YOU How it's aware of the movement is in this wonderful way. Yeah. What an instrument just look like all this exchange of ions going on in this chemical mixture to you. That's music. See, that's colors. It's emotion, feelings, right? That's how reality perceives its own functioning. When Nisargadatta was dying, he got fed up by all the questions. I think his final few dialogues are just wonderful. It's just devastating. He would just let loose, right? He said. I am the total functioning. Do you know what sorrow is? Do you know what grief is? He would ask. Nisargadatta: "I am the total functioning" I am the sorrow. Yeah. I am the suffering, I'm the total functioning No one is suffering. Reality is aware of all the suffering, all the joy because reality is awareness. It is aware even it is a stupid thing to say right? It no reality means self I. However, as soon as we reason in terms of me and others, then that just yeah, then we done the wrong. Speaker 2 Anyone else would like to speak? Q&A: Clarifying Huang Po's "one mind" It's Akina. Speaker 5 So just want to clarify when I read from Paul. So the one mind that is spoken of is the same mind that I have, but my not my personal mind. Speaker 1 There is no personal. Speaker 2 Mind. Speaker 1 It is talking. Speaker 5 So then the only mind that I have is the same mind Hong PO is Speaking of. Speaker 1 Correct. Yeah, but you don't have a mind. There's no, because that would be you and the mind. Speaker 5 OK, so therefore the mind that the thoughts, the memories, the oldest that was spoken of as the mind, is that really the mind? Speaker 1 That is the mind, yes, but that is also you, and that is also reality. It's also. Speaker 2 You. Speaker 5 Separation. Speaker 1 So look, when you say my mind, right, our personal mind, that's going against what Hong PO has told, right? He said all the Buddhas and all sentient beings. I think you should also have said you, because that is what hits hardest. You. All the Buddhas and all sentient beings, all the people on this, people on this call are the one Mind and nothing but the one Mind, besides which nothing exists. We cannot have two of those But then look at yourself after hearing that you are being equated to all the Buddhas, all the sentient beings. Yeah, all of that is the one mind. He's taking you to the essence of what the mind is. That is you, and the essence of mind is not male or female, human being or alien, long and short and all that. He's putting that aside and he's saying this is what a sentient being is. In actual reality, this is what a sentient being is. It's what you are. We cannot have two of those. We cannot have two of that. We can distinguish by talking about names and places and memories. But how are you different to what I am or vice versa? Like there's no criteria here. The baggage vs who you are The criteria is false. When you ask someone, who are you? A normal someone? This is my name. I was born here. This is what I do. None of that is who. Speaker 2 You are. It's happenstance. It's it's extra. Speaker 1 It's the baggage. It's. Speaker 5 The baggage, indeed. Speaker 1 It's nice to meet you, Sakina. You've been. Thank you. You've been around. Speaker 5 From very long Nabil, thank you so much. You have really helped clarify a lot for me and it's I mean, I don't listen to you regularly anymore. I'm just being very honest because it's come to a point, yes, but I really wanted to be here tonight and thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate everything that has. Thank you. Speaker 1 Thank you. Speaker 5 And Sonata and Sonata. I resonate with Sonata. Speaker 1 Sonata. Speaker 5 Yes, yes, Sonata. Speaker 2 Yeah. You will lose interest in all this Eventually you will lose interest in all this and then. Speaker 5 Yes, that's what is coming to. I I kind of feel that I don't want to listen too much. I don't want to. Yeah. It's just, it's just a natural happening, I guess. But you suggest just stay with it, right? Well, you can't do anything else. You can't do anything. Speaker 1 There's no right and wrong there. Speaker 5 No, it grips you. There's nothing else you can do. Yeah, Yeah. Thank you. Speaker 1 Yeah, what? Any last questions or comments? Speaker 3 Yeah, I want to make a comment like it's last few weeks ago. I asked this question that I was stuck in, like going from local sanctions to this idea of being global and all that back then and. Q&A: Going from local to global sensing And then this question I asked today is kind of, and I realize it in hindsight came from the same thing. And it kind of tells me that while you are sensing, unless you do this inquiry about the depth of the sensing, you can't really make that leap up going to the one and one mind, let's say using today's language, the best, the way to do it is to recede back to emptiness. And then from there, everything becomes obvious because now you're not sensing, Now you're not distracted with this and that. I just wanted to share that, see what you think about that. Speaker 1 Yes, that can be very helpful to start from that nothing and then observe something appears and then there's no something. It's just you. You see how something is and nothing out, just false distinctions, right? But if we are stuck in something that's very hard, then nothing is a thing that was there before and it's not there now and it's opaque to the mind. The mind cannot go there and see. It feels like that, right? But if we go the other way is where if you do it like let's say we, you're trying to observe, you're drifting off to sleep and you want to see what it's like to be completely asleep, deep sleep, right? You're trying to observe it. Start from emptiness, then observe something appears It's it doesn't work. The mind will see that thing and freak out. It'll see the emptiness, the nothing. And because you took the wrong perspective, because the perspective was you or something. And that is nothing. And I'm not that. However, when you wake up, you are the void to the void, the sensation appears or the sound appears and the void wakes up very blissfully and there's No Fear because you are the void and over there is now perception bursting out of you. That can be very insightful, yes, but it's not it's it's one of the the ways you can see the insight. It's not mandatory. The other thing was you said like this still the IT seemed to be a concept of this mind and the one mind, but there's only the one mind. OK, this doesn't. The one mind is not the usual word mind that has been discarded. One mind does not mean one stream of experience Now there's no such thing as that kind of mind. One mind does not mean all of the possible experience should be simultaneously experienced because because what is experienced is a particular process. In the case of a human body, that process is, it's very complex, it's very interconnected. There's a lot of sensory equipment. And so you get a whole very rich one world experience. Yeah, there's one world of experience for each human body, and all of those worlds are in the one mind. They are the one mind. But the one mind does not mean all those worlds should merge, and they should only be one possible experience, a stream of experience that that is the that is taking the wrong idea of mine and multiplying it or making it bigger. Speaker 3 Yeah, that was my error and it still is to some extent. But you, you kind of glimpses and like that, that was my. Speaker 1 Error a little, it'll fall away because it is a personal mind. As you start to do this kind of inquiry, this no personal mind is mind. And you are not a person, right? If there's a person of mine, then you are a person. Speaker 2 So that's what we investigate, all right. Speaker 1 Hannah had a question, I think. Do you want to read it? I can't see it. Speaker 5 Right. Speaker 6 I won't read it. I'll just try. And when you talk about depth, that's like really intriguing and I'm just not really sure that I'm understanding what that means or if I, if I already am, I'd really like to hear you talk more about that. Q&A: The selfing process But we are over time. But that was what my question was, was should I leave that question to next time And I did. There was one other thing also, I can't remember which one of your talks it was in, but it was, you said something like, and I'm probably going to get this wrong, but you recognize it. I think it was something about the experience of the self that we think we are. That actually is the illusion, how confusing it can be. When we hear that, that's just another thought, until we realise that it's a thought in a different scale of time. Speaker 2 Right. Yep, yes. So yes, those are probably. Speaker 1 Questions I'll address in the next call or so on. Yeah, because they are, they're really good. The the second one, it's about the insight is, which you all know is that there is no individual self, right? There is no self, but there is selfing But there is still all the problem is that there's still the idea of self, all these thoughts of self, concerned of self. What is that? That there's no self, but there's a process which we could call selfing. There's a selfing process, many parallel selfing processes are going on at the same time and they just, they just change of thinking and there's not maybe not trying to stop it, not trying to permanently kill it off because that is a process that keeps the body functioning. Like if you've got the job that requires your, your intellect and so on. That's how it works. It's a selfing process. You have to think in terms of different entities and objects in the world and so on. But there's no self. And over time, the selfing process, like when I was young, there was a point where I was, I was worried I have no personality, like I have no personality traits. All my friends, they have these strong personality traits and I'm just what's my personality because there's a selfing process. Slowly it's building your personality, your personality, it's building a personality. Persona but no person So there's a persona, but no person. There's this process of selfing but no self. And all you do is you see it that way and you're free of it. It's not you. It's not your problem in terms of you're not responsible for it. And just by seeing it that way, there is a different relationship to the mind. This, now this. We are using the wrong mind, but let's just use it right. There's a relationship between, there's this conflict within that process. Yeah. There's no oneself. There's many voices, there's many opinions within the same stream of experience. There'll be a voice saying do this, the other one saying do that, the other one criticizing and all that. That's the selfing process. All those voices are part of that process. Depth as a dimension And over time it's changing, it's growing. Things you care about drop off. Did new things come and if you could see it. And you can actually, if you look back and see how much that process has generated different things and changed and interests which were so close and so obsessive, all gone, People you thought you would never want to live away from me ended up moving on and all that. And you see it. And in that you then see it as a process and not as the sell for me. But anyway, I said we'll talk about next time. But then I talked about it. The other question, yes, we will talk about next time depth. Like I said, it's about taking what your present expenses and seeing it from the right view. And one of those views is the dimension of depth. Yeah. Length, breadth, height. These are dimension of space. Depth is not a dimension of space, yet you can find it in so many experiences. All experiences. Yeah. And as you, you focus on that instead of the the usual way of looking at things and the truth is there, it's shining every, every experience. You don't need anything special. It's just because you know reality there, it's always the same. Just because you're having a dream doesn't mean awareness is absent, doesn't mean it has changed. The Buddha and sentient beings apply different views And as you start looking at it the experience the right way, that's the difference between sages and anyone else there. The Buddha and the sentient beings are the one line, but there's a different kind of view being applied to the experiences. Speaker 5 Thank you. Speaker 2 Thank you. Speaker 1 And nice to see you too. You finally decided to speak up. All right, let's send it here for today. Thank you all for joining. Speaker 4 Thank you. Thank you. Speaker 1 Thank you. Speaker 2 Thank you.