The Untold Story of Davidoff London | Cigars, Craft & Legacy

And by the way presumably these are some of the rarest cigars in the world. Yes. Oh absolutely. The best part of this little thing called the cigar is it brings people together. I was a paramaniac by genetics. Yeah. And I remember visiting the shop getting extremely excited about all the accessories. The early 80s Cuba started having problems. They had something called the blue mold. Yes. Moving out of Cuba we're not going to make cigars there anymore. The quality is no good and I don't want the name of David Oph to be room. Is that all 50? It is. It should be. Yeah. That's it. Hello and welcome to the luxury dispatch. The podcast that reveals the refined in the rare. People, items and stories that make up the luxury industry. I'm Tom Chamberlain and today we shall be revisiting the world of cigars. But through a side door bringing you a story of revolution, immigration, assimilation and the creation of an institution. It is the story of Edward and Eddie Saharkin of Davidov of London. This episode will explore how this shop, nay, pilgrimage site for the world's cigar of a synados like Arnold Schwarzenegger came to be and spent time picking the brains of two of the most knowledgeable minds on this mystical topic. Specifically on noncuban otherwise known as America friendly cigars. Edward Eddie, welcome. Thank you very much Tom. I knew at some point when we were doing this podcast that this was a conversation we were going to have to have. I've known you 15 years and in that time we've spoken a lot and I know your story but it's never been anything other than astounding. And I think that anybody who hasn't heard it really should and this is I guess an opportunity to revisit that. And so the Saharkin's and cigars is not the beginning of the story because it goes back to, I mean even goes back to Armenia doesn't it? But ultimately let's just introduce you to starting with you Edward and let's talk about how it was that we ended up with Davidov of London. Obviously I know this can go on for a long time but I think that it is a story definitely worth retelling. Well sometimes I wonder myself how it all came about. I have to go back to the late 70s. There was the late 70s. I was a regular visitor to London by then. I was living in Iran obviously Eddie was a young little boy, sister, Caroline, the whole family was to live in Iran and I stood due to business and pleasure as well. I used to visit Europe with him, Tickler London. I always loved London. It was a beautiful place. My wife studied in London as well. So she had a very soft spot about living in London and we often talked about, she would say, I wish we were living in London. I missed the rain in London. I said, well, it's not raining here in Tehran. And on one of those occasions, well on many of the occasions I used to travel here. I have some fun memories of going to. At that time I was smoking a lot of pipe and some cigars as well. So I used to visit my first stop with always the Dunhill Shop in German Street. Yes. Which was opposite the Forten Mason. Yeah. That was the building and it was bombed during the war and the story was, and this story was told to me by Richard Dunhill himself. In the middle of the night, two or three in the morning, the manager of the shop picks up the phone and calls the Prime Minister's office, wakes up the secretary and he says, can you please inform the Prime Minister, which was Winston Churchill at the time, inform the Prime Minister that the bomb has fallen on to our building. Part of it has been destroyed, but his cigars are safe. But I used to visit that the shop there was beautiful. I used to buy my pipes from Dunhill. I still have a few pipes from Dunhill, but also cigars. I used to buy cigars there. It's a beautiful cigars. They used to import them. There's large wooden containers, ten or fifteen thousand cigars at a time. And then there were several other shops. I would go and visit. There was Robert Lewis, down the road on St. James's Street. That was what became JJ Fox. It became the JJ Fox exactly. And there was a shop on German Street, not too far from the famous tramps. It was almost next to it. It was the Sheraton shop. The Sheraton, there were pipe makers. There were the, to my opinion, there were the number two pipe makers next to Dunhill at the time. So it was a lovely area. I used to go there, buy my pipes and cigars and tobacco and spend a lot of time there. And then fast forward to 1979, or end of '78. There were troubles in Iran, starting their brew. There were riots in the streets. Before just to just sense check on the situation in Iran before the revolution, was cigar smoking something that people did in Iran at the time? Not really, no. Where there shops, where there was the cascades again. There were no shops whatsoever. The selling cigars and not even pipes, nor pipe to battle as so. So you come into London and doing all that cigar pipe shopping was also practical. It wasn't just because you loved London, but also you didn't need to do that for your supply. I have to admit, it wasn't only London, there was Geneva as well. Fine, I'll take it. There was Geneva as a go to the David of shop there to buy cigars, but also definitely in London also. In Geneva, you always pass through it. You don't really want to spend too much time there. There isn't much to do in Geneva, but in London, it was lovely. It was very nice. Anyone who listens to this show from Geneva, he's not wrong, but we do love you. We love you anyway. No, we do love you. We love you. Until 8 o'clock, the lights switch over and the whole city goes that quiet. It's still the case. But what I will say about Switzerland is that it is very cigar friendly in a way that you're absolutely right. It's always been. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So sorry, end of the 70s. Iran. End of the 70s, there were problems, riots happening in the capital in Iran to a point where schools started closing down and the situation was getting worse. To a point where young Eddie, he was going, I think he was the first grade kindergarten or first grade. Something like that. His school closed down. And I thought it would be a wise thing to do to bring them over in London so they could spend a few months in London and improve their English in the meantime to wait and see how things are developing in Iran. They came to London. I went back to Tehran and November, December 78, the situation started to get better. There was a change of government. The Shah had appointed a new general, it was called general as Harry, I think. And when he took over, became prime minister, he installed a few tanks in the streets and soldiers, guns and things went quiet for a while. So I thought, well, that's it. Everybody had their fun. Everything is back to normal again. And it was that Christmas 28th of December 1978. I remember so well, I picked up my suitcase, coming to London to spend New Year and to spend Christmas together and then we were all going to go back. And it's that famous story you've heard when I came with in my suitcase, there was 20 kilos of Iranian rice, which is very good for a friend of ours who lived here. And in my hand briefcase, there were six kilos of caviar. Last minute thing I just picked up from the airport and I thought we'll enjoy it with friends there. And of course my tuxedo, that's all it was. That's what you left to Iran, right? Yeah. It came here, thinking we'll be going back in a couple of weeks time. Because we were here, there was suddenly a change of situation, more riots happening in the streets. And there was on the, I think it was on the 5th or 6th of January because we stayed behind, where we were going to go back after New Year and we decided to stay a few days longer to celebrate the Armenian Christmas, which is on the 6th of January and then we'll go back. On the, around the 5th or 6th of January, I heard the news, we had a phone call middle of the night. And I said, you won't believe what's happened. There was big riots in the streets, they sat fire to all the cinemas, night clubs and your brew-reases. well, beat up the manager. At the moment, it won't be safe for you to come back, stay there until we let you know what's happening. That was the beginning of my journey. I was still worried, concerned, probably. It will come down, we'll still go back. Another week later, one morning, watching the news, they were showing the shah, getting onto the plane and leaving the country. When I saw that as well, I realized things will not change. It will just get worse. It won't go back to the old regime. I was thinking what to do, what will be the next step. I realized the first and most important thing I need to do is go and sort out my immigration situation. I was here on a three-month visit, visa, so I probably need to extend that. What do you do? You go and see a solicitor. I asked my bank manager, no, friends, but then he was just a bank manager. I said, "I need to see a solicitor. Can you recommend somebody?" He said, "Yes, I'll recommend a person I know." He gave me the address made in appointment. I went to a visitor and we sat down. He said, "Oh, Mr. Salkin, what's your problem?" I said, "Well, I don't have a problem as such, but my problem is that I'll be stuck here for a few more months and I will need to renew my visitor's visa." He said, "Fine. It's not a problem. It's very easy. We'll do an application. I will do this." We had a nice, long chat, like we're having a chat, sort of talking from the past and my situation. Before we go further and say, "Can I just do you remember any of this?" I don't remember that element of it. I do remember leaving school. I remember arriving in the UK in London. We did have an apartment here, so it was not entirely foreign to me, and it was great fun. I remember starting at an American school, which was we were in St. John's, what at the time? An American school. I remember those elements as it related to home life. None of this, of course. So, yeah, I don't think so. Forgive me. I felt embarrassed when he said, "There's nothing to pay, no charge." I said, "Well, at least allow me to invite you for a spot of lunch at a very nice restaurant, which I used to go there frequently, even at that time, called Wilton's." Yes. It's the same Wilton as it is on German street now, but in those days, it was on Beres Street, just on the side street, with original pictures and fittings and the owner, Mrs. Marx, used to sit there by the door. Never a smile line of face. I never saw smiling at anybody. We had a nice lunch. We finished a nice bottle of chloride. He said, "Have you thought what you will be wanting to do if you're not able to go back to your country ever again?" That's when I realized, perhaps, we drank too much wine and too much brandy. I was taken back. Of course, I'm going back. I left everything behind as it is. It's just a short holiday, a few weeks. I'll be going back maybe in a few weeks' time, if not a couple of months' time, but I would be going back. No. I haven't thought anything else than that. He said, "Yes, I realized, but he could see the future much better than I could." Is that the only hope? Is there anything you enjoy doing? I love traveling. I love photography. As I'm touching the cigars, like the cigars, because we're talking to me. For a short moment, he said, "Well, you know what I would really like if I had ever had to start all over again. It'll be to have a small cigar shop, like the cigar shop in Geneva. Davidov, I used to go there regularly by then. I would keep my cigars on one side, a few accessories, lighters, cutters. That will be lovely. There'll be no problems. No worries. If I don't sell them, I will smoke them." As I'm telling him this brief story, my dear friend, William, he takes out his pen and he starts writing. He said, "Did you say what was the name? Davidov is that one F or two F's?" I said, "No, it's two F's. I'll write a letter to them, see if they want to have a shop in London. They don't have a shop in London. Do they?" I said, "No, they don't." I said, "I'll write a letter and inquire." I've never been a shopkeeper. I have never clue what to do. And I'm not opening a shop, you know? I don't even know where to start. This was just a boy talking about his dreams. Forget it. He said, "No, no, no, no, no, I'll write a letter. I'm not going to charge you." Once he said, "I'm not going to charge you." I said, "Well, I put nothing to lose there." And he wrote a letter a week, 10 days later. We got to reply or he had to reply and it was from the president of the company saying that he's passing through London and he will be happy to meet us 8 o'clock in the morning in the lobby of the Intercontinental Hotel for half an hour. And William said, "Will you be available?" I said, "Of course, I've got nothing else to do." 8 o'clock in the morning, we were sitting on a bench opposite the elevators in the Intercontinental Hotel, the doors of the elevator opened and two gentlemen stepped out of it and William looked at them and then looked at me and said, "It must be them." He said, "Why?" "Do you know them? Have you seen their photographs?" He said, "No, no, but it's exactly 8 o'clock and they are Swiss. It must be them." He was absolutely spot on. He walked out, he was Dr Schneider, the president of the company, accompanied by Raymond, his assistant Raymond Sherer, and we stood up shook hands sat down. In my mind I had prepared all sort of replies, statics about stories as a business transaction, but he started chatting everything apart from business. It was a very interesting meeting. We chatted and talked about the whole world, the weather, the families, everything. And then at one point he looked at his watch, he said, "Oh God, it's 10/13 in the morning and I had a meeting in the city at 10 o'clock. I have to go, but you will hear from us. We stood up, we shook hands and Ophi went. Another week passed and we had a letter from them saying, "If we are still interested in pursuing opening a shop, we will be glad to welcome us in Basel, their head offices. We had a nice meeting with my friend William, of course, and we had a long chat. Dr Schneider had put a few conditions. He said, "The seven conditions, if you agree with that, we will give you the agency." He said, "What are the conditions?" He said, "We have to approve the location. We have to approve the staff. You have to come for training there. You have to abide by our high standards, things like that." So he said, "Do you agree with all that Edward?" I said, "No, Dr Schneider. Can't believe me. What do you mean no?" I said, "No, these are my conditions. I don't have a clue about location. I don't have a clue about quality. I don't have a clue about training staff. I don't have much glue myself about running a shop. So I will need all these to learn from you." So I insist that we do have these conditions, and these are my conditions. Did you know much about cigars at that point? I used to love cigars. I used to smoke cigars by then. I was smoking again, even then my favorite cigar was the David of number two. I used to travel through Geneva. I used to always stop there by a few boxes of cigars. Okay, so paperwork was done. Paper were done, signed sealed, and I came back to find the location. On 29th of May 1980, the shop was ready, finished, and of course with the Zero David of came over. That was the first time he was seeing the shop. He had not seen it. He knew about it, but he had not seen it. He came over with his wife, Dr. Schneider, with his wife Raymond. We had a lovely opening reception in the Dorchester Hotel at 500 guests then. On the opening of that night, there were two events being celebrated. One, the opening of the new David of shop in London, and also the launch of the David of Dom Perignon. Cigars. Yes. And we had Baron Philippe Rothschild was there, one of the guests. And at one point, he was invited to go on to the stage with Xenon. They stood there. Xenon David, he took out the Dom Perignon Cigar, he cut it and he started lighting it in his own style. And Baron Philippe Rothschild, he took the bottle of the Dom Perignon, the Sumelia, he cut it with the sword. Great. He filled the glass and then they exchanged. He gave him, he gave Xenon a glass of the Dom Perignon champagne and Xenon gave Dom Perignon David of Cigar. And that was the beginning and the celebration. A fabulous class. It was a lovely, lovely thing. Because that was one of the things that David Rothschild did. There was like a de Kem wasn't there. There was a lot of Cigars names. It was a deal. The same name as one. Yes, famous one. He came, Shatter Marko, Shatter O'Prión. Shatter, he came at one point. They had to stop it because the new owners didn't want to continue. Didn't want to back it up. But the rest they did. Could ask Eddie Mike what I want to answer. Who was Xenon David off? So Xenon David was historically born 1911 and his family from Ukraine. They had moved to Zurich early on and Xenon's father had set up a cigarette shop in Zurich. Xenon fell in love with the leaf. All things tobacco. So much so that in the 1930s he took a tour around South America and the Caribbean to find out how the leaf is cultivated. How are these wonderful Cigars produced? Came back absolutely in love and enthralled by Cigars distinct from Cigarettes. And it was his impetus and vision and thought that transformed what was really not a humble but a modest cigarette shop into a cigar shop that specialised in handmade cigars. And then of course by this point they opened in Geneva and Xenon very wisely towards the early parts of World War II had secured the entire stock of Cuban cigars in Europe anticipating big problems. So when World War II ended Xenon became the source of Cuban cigars in Europe and anyone who loves cigars, well you know nothing has changed only the finest of the fine enjoy great cigars. So of course they went and found Zeno and he became a really successful. He was rewarded for his wisdom by the Cubans by naming a cigar after him. They told Zeno they would like to name a cigar after you. I hope you will agree and this is a story he told me. He said yes I will agree providing that you maintain certain qualities and standards that I would inspect. I would come and at least once a year check the stock that you're making and I will smoke the cigar regularly and make sure that it is a fine quality very much which he did for many years until the famous divorce came along. Yes so tell us should we talk about that because it's a really interesting aspect of the history of of the story of Cuban versus non-Cuban as well as also your story too because you by the time of the divorce as you put it you've been open a decade very well established in London it was a thriving business. I mean it was your first job as well wasn't it? It was yes yes very much so I was aware the shop for me it was you can imagine as a young man a young boy even I was a paramedic by genetics yeah sure and I remember visiting the shop getting extremely excited about all the accessories so I still have matches with the cell sets of matches with World War II aeroplanes or different guards from the UK you know things I used to buy the matches and collect them. I used to pick up the odd lighter very excited to own a lighter even though I wasn't smoking and of course pipes. I still have a few pipes which I picked up from the basket. Great yeah so I was aware of it it was this wonderful curiosity shop and I think any young young child is fascinated by these sorts of knickknacks. And if father did also sit you down and give you a debit of number two yes that was a punishment that was a punishment. It was a punishment exactly I mean that was an extraordinary thing punishment because his mom had found a lighter a zippo lighter in his pocket and she came hysteric Greta you know that's what's happened Eddie smoking now those days you were were 16 years old did you have to stop him he can't smoke he's far too young I said how do you know he's smoking I found the slight in his pocket I said well it's okay I'll have a word with him it's not any of the world he's already 16 years old you know and those days 16 was the age of course. When they came back from school that night at any Saturday morning I want you to come to the shop with me I want to have a word with you man to man talk away from mom we went to the shop it was about 10 o'clock in the morning a 10 to early is what I remember then there did the morning and I asked I did to sit on those famous chairs and he's waiting for me what I'm going to say I didn't say anything I went inside the Yumi door room I picked up one of my favorite cigars the david of number two I came out in front of him I cut the cigar I lit it and he's watching all the time what I'm doing expecting I'm going to smoke it and it was nice and lit and ready to enjoy I said here you are ready this you have to smoke right now in front of me oh dad I don't smoke no no I know you smoke your mom has found the lighter in your pocket just to clarify and you can say now did you smoke no I was absolutely on the list I first see I was rocking I was keenly into my rugby at the time very healthy I love zippo light as it was very trendy then leave I five months the whole house is instead okay okay okay yeah it was great yeah I said you have to smoke it and let me tell you you shouldn't smoke it's not good for you but if you are going to smoke don't smoke anything rubbish don't smoke cigarettes don't smoke other things I didn't want to mention it by name but if you're going to smoke and you have to smoke then smoke the best and the best is a good hand made pure cigar here you're smoked this enjoyed and if you want if your friends tell you that you you're smoking this that tell them you're smoking the best in the world so nobody could make fun of you why are you smoking this and you're not smoking putt of rails what you would have smoked then I'm assuming is a Cuban yes stab it off number two yes which is a sort of lancer or we hate lovely thin it's a slightly shorter but the same ring gauge same ring gauge yes but you yours would have been a Cuban one they would have been made in alugato but something happened what was that the early 80s Cuba started having problems they had something called the blue mold yes which affects the tobacco to point where the only way to stop it you have to burn all the leaves all all the crops and then give it a year time then replant again so they were having problems with shortages with the quality of the cigars and these problems started affecting the damage of cigars to point where Zino David of and Dr Schneider they wrote to then it was called Cuba tobacco it wasn't a ban was it with Cuba tobacco they started writing letters complaining that the cigars that were receiving they have problems physically they don't draw very well they don't taste well they don't look well we're having complaints from our customers and you have to put this right otherwise we won't let you use our name to put our name on no good cigars they had several meetings with Cuba and David of they could not reach an arrangement and an agreement okay the Cuban said or nothing wrong with the cigars David of said no no there's definitely not good let well there was one batch of 150,000 cigars were famously set fire to by David of these cigars are no good it will cost us more to ascend them back we're just going to set fire to the minute ditch that's exactly what they did I don't know if it was a ditch or where but they were not set fire two one by one, all at one. Yeah, only, yeah, exactly. That's a big old bonfire. And that's a big story about that as well. And they said, if you continue making these cigars, we're not going to buy anything. Yeah. And that's exactly what happened. 1990, one day we had an official letter and a phone call from Dr Schneider. So Edward just wanted to let you know, we're moving out of Cuba. We're not going to make cigars there anymore. The quality is no good. And I don't want the name of Davidov to be ruined. So, does that mean there will be no more cigars? Say, no, no. You will have some cigars. Shortly, I will let you know. I've looked to several places already. And I'm going to take the final decision in which country we're going to make the finest cigars ever. So, well, I shall wait and see, you know. And it's changed suddenly. The map of cigars changed from Davidov being the number one cigar. It almost disappeared. The Cubans started to pick up brands like Monte Cristo, H.A.P. and Romeo, Juliet. There was all available. And people just switched from what they couldn't get to what they can get, which were the cigars. And also, at the same time, there was a cigar being launched and promoted the Koiba. Yep. There was the Koiba Corona Special, which is the same size as the Davidov number two, the Koiba Lancero. And then the Koiba Panatella, which was the same as the Ambassador Priests. Was he Esponido, Nali? And the Esponido came out a bit later. The Esponido is the Churchill size. And then they came out also with the 1992, 1993, or maybe a bit later. They came out with the Ciglo Range, Ciglo 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on. And Davidov, at the same time, they went to the medical republic into partnership with gentlemen called Hanki Keldor, which had a great-- Yes, all you raised. Exactly. And how we know Cuban cigars is that there are three leaves that they use as parts of the blend. The Valado, the second, the Le Haro. They all played different roles. When Davidov was then going off into the new world. So Nicaragua, to Michael Hubbard, wherever they were going. It was the Dominican Republic. Yeah. The big ending, yes. Did that change the rules slightly in terms of blending? Because lots of different leaves are being used. Rather than this sort of slightly limiting three that they use for Cuban cigars. Did it change the rules when you start to make a new role? Hanki himself. He was a master chef of blending to start with. And he had his own ideas. He stood us about blending, fermenting, maturing, tobacco. He did it in his own way. He didn't talk much about it. Like any good chef, they have their secrets. They don't like the sharing of the world. But the things that he did share. And he had a very good assistant, Eladio, together. I mean, they started doing a variety of blends. But the Davidov, at first, they were trying to almost copy to make it as similar to what the Cuban blend was. And then they realized the Cuban tobacco and there tobacco are two different things. And Hanki took the blending in a different way with a mild Davidov still stayed mild, but with a different flavor, with a different taste. Is that a case of terror? Because I know that for example, Fuente who were in here in Dominican Republic as well, you know, as a family, kind of left with a bunch of sort of Cuban tobacco seeds and the poppy seeds. And as he did it. But yeah, the product is different. Or the end product is different. It's absolutely different. And the terror world makes a very big difference. What tobacco grows in Cuba is different to what goes in Dominican Republic is different to what grows in Nicaragua. It's different to what grows in Mexico. Yeah. Each one has its own flavor, its own taste, and its own character, the tobacco. Ideally, ideally, if one could make cigars made with blend of Dominican, Nicaragua, Cuban, and possibly Ecuador or Mexican, wrapper or binder, they could make some beautiful delicious cigars. Yeah. But it's the absence of Cuba, you think, that there's a prohibitive aspect. It works the other way around as well. Yeah, Cuba, you know, the absence of all the other varieties which they are not allowed to, what they don't use. Yes, well, quite. But as we're talking, as we are talking today, things could change. Just when you thought you were listening to the only podcast in the world without a NordVPN advertisement, think again. In fairness, there's a reason you hear about them everywhere. Many of you listening to the luxury dispatcher fairly well traveled, regularly moving between London, New York, Geneva, Dubai, or indeed, the less corporate, more recuperative destinations like Sub-Barts, Aspen and the South of France. 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And one account works across up to 10 devices, which means your phone, laptop, tablet, and everything else can all be protected at once, whether you're working from a Mayfair office, a New York hotel room, or the Wi-Fi network of a slightly optimistic airport lounge. To get the best discount of your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN.com/dispatch. Our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan and there's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box. One thing I've always had an issue with, with getting my head around non-Cuban cigars, is the fact that this has got a wrapper from Honduras, a binder from the Dominican Republic, and a fella from Ecuador, right? You can find it from all sorts of different places into one cigar. But how does anybody as a consumer kind of understand how to get the head around that in particular? Because it's kind of like drinking a wine that is from, one is from the Napa Valley, some of it's from the Napa Valley, some of it's from Burgundy, some of it's from Italy. So it's a hard thing to get your head around what you're buying into. It's more like a fine scotch whiskey, not a single one, but a blended whiskey or a blended fine brandy. You take a fine brandy, it's not from one source, it's from a variety of sources, a variety of years blending it. And that's what makes it delicious. Blending tobacco just gives you the opportunity to create more flavors and more tastes to it. And it doesn't mean that everything that is blended is delicious. No. And it doesn't mean if something is not delicious for you, it's not delicious for me or vice versa. In the last 40 years, 45 years that I've been in the business, I've seen a lot of changes. But what's happening in the last five, six, seven, 10 years? It's incredible. There's such a variety of flavors of cigars, flavors, blends, strains, tastes, appearances, plus all the beautiful bands and boxes that come with it as well. And there seems to be a lot of people who are able to kind of make their own cigars as well these days. And you can appeal to, I presume, a producer in the Dominican Republic, for example, who white labels cigars and you sort of slap your name in a label on that. Yes. Oh, yes. The boom we saw in the 90s, triggered by a cigar, a cigar, a fish, you know, the, it was very much American lead. And of course, the US couldn't access Cuban tobacco officially. So there was a massive growth in the domestic US market of brands that were based in Dominican, Garago, Honduras and other places. And what we saw was quite a lot of rubbish. People who just wanted to put their name on a cigar and try and sell it. Yeah. And the Dominican, the Caraguar, Honduras, all these producing nations, there were not enough high quality producers or high quality tobacco. to really feed that. So the world was inundated with some pretty mediocre cigars. Okay. The difference though now, and again, sorry to interrupt you on that, I'm just to say, this time around with the cigar boom we've seen over the last few years, there is that and Dominican Republic has matured, Nicaragua has matured, Honduras, Ecuador, even Cameroon rappers, you know, there's so many origins now Mexico and they are making exceptional leaf and the quality of production is exceptional. So they are delivering cigars that stand shoulder to shoulder with some of the finest Cubans. And also crucially, there's the reliability aspect of it because in Cuba, as much as we love the cigars, the quality control is poor, let's say average to poor. And you are likely to get a plug cigar in every box. Each. That's lots in time. It is not an unlikely thing. Yes. That's very likely. So thank you very much. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. And plugs ultimately they've been overfilled. They're, you know, they're probably haven't been de-stemmed. Well, and I see you wrap. You wrap. You wrap loosely. And they've got, you know, often you have those sticks from the stems that are hard stems that you need to kind of remove. And that loosens it up and allows you to smoke it again, which is fine if you do it and it all smokes fine after that. But ultimately it sort of subtracts from the smoking experience that you have. And when it comes to non-cubans cigars, I've never had a plugged one. Yes. I think that's fair. That's certainly been our experience. And, you know, there is a very obvious reason for that. There is an absolute profit motive to preserving high quality production for your brand. And when you can control all elements of that, as Davidoff do, as Fuente do, as others do, then you're in control of all the levers. If there is a batch coming out, which has a problem in construction, that gets stopped before it relieves the factory. The competition with all the other brands is breeding that level of high quality in a way that Cuba doesn't because they own it all as a state. And accountability. You know, it comes out of your pocket at every level. If you make a mistake with your brand and the word goes round that your cigars are plugged, then clearly people are going to be cautious buying your cigar. You know, Cuba has benefited from having distributed accountability. That's probably the right way to put it. Nicely done. And of course, as retailers, we're the front line of the war against poorly made cigars. When a customer returns a cigar that is poorly constructed, if it's a Cuban cigar or we never have it with noncuban, but let's presume it's a Cuban. You know, we don't want the client to take the blame for that. So we will absorb that very often into our own cash flow. But you are now the equivalent of Dr. Schneider's, you know, Davidoff calling up the producer saying, look, I'm not willing to put up with that. You need to sort your supply better. And if they're a noncuban, like brand light Davidoff, make a light Davidoff, they will probably listen, but sadly in Cuba, that exactly why Davidoff left. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's the second point. Because they did not have control. That's the best route for collectors when it comes to noncuban cigars. Because with Cuban, you have guys who tend to get a good steer on the best brands. And obviously they're, they're, you know, that's fairly well dictated. And when limited editions come out or regionals come out, people have an eye for this stuff. But when it comes to collecting and aging of noncuban cigars, how, where do you think the market is with that? It's an intriguing difference between Cuba and everyone else essentially. In our experience, Cuban production is undercooked is the best way to put it when it comes straight from Cuba. It needs time to settle and it needs time to blend together, kind of harmonise. And time is your friend. Many, many years will improve the cigar. Noncuban, in general, arrives ready to eat. Okay. If that's the best one, it's private, ready baked. And therefore, the impact of time is minimal relative to the Cuban. It will still have an impact over many years. We're talking 5, 10, 15, maybe 20 years. You will of course taste the difference in the tobacco. However, the difference is much less. And the philosophy and principle behind most noncuban producers is that the cigar should arrive to the customer, ready to enjoy. Now, as a collector, what would you collect in the noncubans? Depends what your motivation is. If your intent is to make a quick buck, do you want to flip the cigar? By for 100, sell it for 200 as quickly as possible. There's very little that you can do in the noncuban world. There's a few brands, some of the Davidov limited editions, Fwentel limited editions, some of the Padron, very, very scarce productions. It's possible, but it's a tiny market who would pay you more than shelf price for those. So my advice to anyone who comes in and says, I want to collect noncubans is the best advice probably you can give an art collector. By something you're happy to smoke. Consistently. Consistently. Don't think about resell value. By what you would happily smoke and if the price never goes up, you're still very happy. The fact that you might make money on it and that you might one day decide to sell the cigar in the future is a happy accident, but not something you should expect. And I think this is part of the problem with the Cuban market. So many people became intermediaries in the, that's called it the last 20 years. They were not real smokers. They were people who were doing it just to turn a profit in a quick short period of time. Because the guys, Cubans, the guys of these became an asset class. Absolutely. And so when that happens, anybody's going to sort of jump on it to see if they can make money on it. Very much. But certainly I know a lot less about the kind of aging potential. It's our refrain that we all go to when a new Cuban cigar got to the market. Oh, what do you think? We'll give it six months. We also give it six months. But you'll say that every time you get a new box of, you know, Davidov's come through or they've had that six months or they've had that sort of thing. They had that six months and more. And as Eddie said, they're ready to be enjoyed. What are the best Davidov cigars? Best is such a loaded term when we, when we talk about cigars, of course. The best one is the one you enjoy the most. That's my opinion. Okay. To me, the best David of cigar is the number two still. Yeah, format is just perfect. It's a 38 green gauge, six inches long. It's not too big. It's not too small. It's mild. I could smoke the cigar any time in the day. I could smoke it early in the morning, try to this morning. Or I could smoke in the evening during the day. That's the best cigar for me. Having said that, there are times that I, after a nice meal, after a nice lunch, I would like to enjoy a nice large green gauge cigar as well. But the best cigar in a nutshell is the one that you will enjoy the best at the time that you would like to smoke it. Right. Eddie, you're father gave 40 diplomatic enough. I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit more. Okay. So let's, let's dig a bit deeper into what we mean by best. Do we mean the most expensive? No, so surely not. For some people, that is a gauge of quality. And if it's in the world of David off, then it's the Oroblanco. They have a new variation of that or a blank or meaning white gold. The cigar itself is a tourist size. It's about a 56 green gauge, 54, 50, the three big old thing. It's a big cigar. Yeah. Beautifully presented. And the current generation is called the one one one. And the reason it's called the one one one is because the combined age of the tobacco in the cigar is 111 years. Huh. An interesting way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. That is interesting. In the past, people might say there's 15-year-old tobacco in here, but they've done it differently. It is a collectible cigar because it's produced in very small quantities. It's extremely expensive relative to other production. It's around 650, maybe even 700 pounds now for one cigar. And that puts it right up there with some of the more exotic Cuban limited editions. And probably nothing in current production from Cuba hits that mark. That's one. It is a wonderful cigar. That year at the Snake one with the presentation human or that they come out quite expensive. Yes, they do. The current series of zodiac limited editions that the David off produce fluctuate between 80 and 110 pounds of cigar. The year of the size one is my favorite of those. Yeah. And they tend to be collectible. It's about the size of the nox as well. It's massive. You do not drink, you do not smoke that on an empty stomach. no, absolutely. And you know, when I think about those, those are the ones that most, I get most asked for by people, subsequent to them finishing. So they're only produced in limited quantity. And then two, three, four years down the road, you still get people coming and saying, do you have a year of the dog? Do you have a year of the rat? So there's a really interesting collectors community there. For me, my favorite, probably the one I would smoke the most, if that's another measure of favorite is the David off number two, as per my father, because it's so approachable. The one that I would smoke with the most delight is I think from the Winston Churchill range. I've always been a fan of the white label Winston Churchill. And the Churchill size Winston Churchill ticks the box in terms of complexity, strength, it's multi origin. You do have Dominican, you have Nicaraguan, there you have, if I'm not mistaken, a little bit of Mexican as well, possibly an Ecuadorian rapper. So there's complexity coming through on the blending as well, really well made. So those would be my little late 90s, also. It's a little I throw in the late hour, the chef's selection. It's not part of the treasury, but that's a great cigar. Yes, great lovey shape as well. What else? Well, of course, your 40th anniversary cigar. That was a lovely cigar. And I was lucky enough to go to Basel with you. And we sat and we sampled how many cigars and how many minutes. I mean, I think it worked out. It was like nine cigars or six cigars. Some obscene quantity. But it was an absolutely superb day picking the blend that we all liked the most for the celebratory 40th anniversary cigar. Can I say something here whilst we're on that subject? I don't know if I'll be around or not, but young Eddie, you've just started thinking about the 50th anniversary. Because it's been 46 years now, hasn't it? So well. And yes, nicely from Tom to assist you with the tasting of it, even better. I'm quite important these days. If you could excuse from your viewers, your participation for a few days, we will need to do some proper your booking me in for his invite. I'm fine. Or at least it would be three years in advance, perhaps. Yeah, no, it was a superb thing. And I think that perhaps the enjoyment of the cigar itself, which I have to say ended up being quite a strong cigar. Perhaps the memories of it and the kind of camaraderie of it and that sense of a community that we have with the whole group together, which is what made it so, makes it so special. And perhaps that's the, that is the secret of cigars. And it sort of doesn't, you kind of take it, doesn't necessarily matter that something is Cuban or non-cuban. It's the sort of memories you form around it. Beautifully put Tom. Because you're doing it outside of the sort of work of day lives that we all have. Yes. And and intriguing, you mentioned that because it reminds me that of all the David of cigars I've smoked the 40th anniversary, we blended with a vision that it is for aging. If you remember that that fed into our thoughts about the blend. And actually it is changing with time. I've smoked on very recently. So that is perhaps the exception that proves the rule. I'm not sure, but I deck up. I mean, I think you're right. I think I got this a diggin. Have another one soon then. So we hear three sort of wise men sit here talking about a subject that we know and love. You of course enjoy them yourselves, but big part of your job is guiding people into the world. Somebody new walks into David of London these days. There's decades of experience there to help them. So how would you do that? Would you like to start that? I'll tell you how I it starts with the hog always. Of course we'll start this off. Yeah. And that's how it is. My first question, somebody walking is I want to cigar and usually you could tell from the looks on the face of a person if he's ever smoked a cigar or not. So in a very gentle way, I ask, have you smoked cigars before or can you tell me what you normally smoke? And if he turns around, says, well, I've never smoked a cigar or maybe just one or two. That's when I love it. I know, you know, he's in my palm of my anno, taken wherever I want to. With that question, I will show him a whole variety of cigars. I explain to him briefly, cigars, you could choose something small, something large, something medium, something strong, something extraordinary. But can I ask, when are you going to smoke the cigar? Are you going to go outside and perhaps have a beer in the pub and smoke the cigar? Or are you going to go and have a meal somewhere and then you're going to smoke? Are you going to share it with some friends? And a few questions that gives you a very good idea of where the cigar is going, who's going to smoke it, when he's going to smoke it, in what company is he going to smoke it? And accordingly, I always give a good guidance to what he should smoke. And also the cost of the cigar as well. I try to be diplomatic, gentle, whatever you want to call it, suggesting cigars, which are a bit more expensive and not necessarily the right budget for the person who's buying it. You know, somebody who's buying his first cigar, I would never let him buy a hundred pounds cigar. Is it start something with 25, 30, 40 pounds cigar? Smoke it, enjoy it. If you like that, then I'll guide you to another one similar to this better larger and that will last you longer. It's important, your first cigar or one of your first cigars, if you smoke the wrong cigar, you never come back again. Yeah, I don't know what you idiot, what you would do. But there very much along these lines I've learned from the best. So it's very difficult to be original when the best has been done already. It still lives in the old race and do all that. The other two bits of crucial information we always impart, especially with new smokers, is make sure you've eaten before you enjoy the cigar to avoid your headspinning. And if possible, enjoy it in good company. You have a bag. What's in the bag as BarPet said in seven? May I do a little reveal? Yeah, I'm interested. All I can see from here, and the team who've been listening in tenies all this might get a such bad. All I can see from here is the word DOM. So if I may, I'll reach into the first one and then hand it over to my father because, well, you will see why. It can even be handled. Oh, okay. How amazing. So when you say, if you can find them, we found them. Have we? We have found them. Yes, you're allowed to look at them. Should we start with? Should we start with Tom? Yes. How amazing. So the message reads, don't smoke too much. My dear Edward, Zeno Davidoff, 2 June 1980. Don't pair in your La Habana Cupid. Now, you'll see there's some padding inside. I've done that just for safe transit. Why don't you give us a little bit about that particular box? Okay. Yeah. And by the way, presumably there are perhaps, I mean, low hundreds of these left. If that? There are private collectors who do have them. I don't know exactly who they are. But these are some of the rarest cigars in the world. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So there's this little note here. Every time I took one out of here, I made a note. Oh, my God. Lovely. But this box, this box was presented to me by Zeno Davidoff. The second day of the opening of the shop. Yeah. After our reception in the Dorchester hotel, the next day he came to the shop, he said, "Edward, I've got a present for you." And he presented me a box of Don Paix N'Un. And me being me, as always, I said, "Edward, you have to sign it or write something for me there, which he did." And when I read the message, he said, "Well, I promise Mr. Davidoff, I won't smoke too much. I will smoke one every year. And when I smoke the last one, I will retire. I was in my early 40s, I'll be 60 years old by time I smoke the last one. Perfect time for retire." So now in your late 50s, you're still planning to hit that? No. And I religiously started smoking these cigars. I smoked the first layer every year. one on 29th of May. And then when I reached the lower section there was only 12 left there. I hesitated and I put one back and said I'll smoke one next year. I'm sure Zino won mind if I smoke one every other year. So this is 1993. That is discovered he's smoked through the top layer. And from there on I was even more cautious. I think the last one I smoked there was on that piece of note I had was God when was it. There we are in 2005. That's the last time I picked one up there and smoked it. So I am still lucky I have nine left. Amazing. I have nine left here. I still promise I will smoke the last one before I retire or on the day of my retire. And let this car in, right? That's terrific. You've got plenty of time left. Yes. If I smoke one every five years that will give me plenty of time. Yes, exactly. By the way Tom, I know you're a cigar fan yourself. So here you are. Have a look at that and have a smell of it. I can't attempt you to smoke it. I know when I'm not allowed. I mean you can get that into it. I always think of it as a sort of a minty smell that I mean. See that beautiful embossing on the Davidoff band. Yes, lovely that. So this is 45, 46 year old to box the six year old cigar. It's older than me. Still look, the leaf is still super glossy. Just about. Yeah, you're leafy super glossy. But it is a purple made to go. I love this. So I love the ivory band because obviously the Davidoff band today is more sort of parchment white. Yes. Is it black writing on it now? It's very similar actually. No, the writing everything is the same. Everything is the same. More white than it is now as well. But yeah. Oh, do you think this is sort of? They do oxidize. Yeah. And age. Great. It's 46 years in baking. Yeah. And we brought this box because it in so many ways captures a sliding tools moment for us. You know, where not just a whole wave life and a whole place of life changed. But didn't change to our detriment. You know, when I look at what dad did effortlessly appear to me and I think about myself, if I'd been 35, 36 in a similar situation, new country, new career, new risks with a family, all of those things. I'm sure I would have had a nervous breakdown. And yet my father just swam through it with cigars, with elegance, with grace. And this is why it was the love of the cigars of kept going. He wanted to. Yeah. We'll tidy that up later. But I do have another box. And this is again, an important box. Excuse me, whilst I just, this, I'll leave you to tell us. Okay. Well, let me, this was given to my father again. But Tom, I'll give it to you to, to, to read this. Yeah. And then perhaps that. And then I'll explain what it is. So it says on the side, eat less, but the best drink less, but the best smoke less, but Davidoff. Quite right. And, and of course, who could have written that? And Schneider. How amazing for my friend Edward 29th of May 1997. From Dominican Republic, the double R. This is the first of the double R's they made the Dominican Republic. So, so this really talks to, it is like kind of handling, it feels funny, sort of handling something sort of, a really, a really good source. This is the end of any end in Indiana Jones when, when, you've chosen wisely. The light bulb never burns out. Pure Dominican production. And this was in a 50 cabinet, which as a whole, wow, covers around the world will know probably the best way to keep an age. Yeah. Yeah. Is that, is that all 50? It is. It should be. And that's your security system has failed. Here we are. God bless. You should pass that to you. Yeah. Is that all right? Yeah. Like a baby almost. Yes, exactly. Wow. That's quite something. So, on the subject of, you know, aging and collecting and so on, well, here's an example of a cigar that we didn't keep with a mind to having a rare value to it, but smelling good to back over 30 years in making in this box. Extraordinary. What a beautiful site as well. I don't know which end, which end is pretty guys do you think? Well, both ends right. And the bit in the middle as well. Yeah. And again, this carries a huge, you know, significance for us because it tells the story of David Offs move into Dominican Republic. It carries, it carries a very personal memory because Dr Schneider is really the is really such an important element to our story as well. Not as you know, David, but you know, is the face of the company, but with Schaigel, it was the brain's, he was a genius. And for people who don't understand, I know that this goes back to this sort of cigar tentacles, rather than the sentimental site, but the reason those are able to be in such good nick after this amount of time is that tobacco leaves a full of oils. And it is the fermentation of the oils within the cigar that determine flavor profile. And if you keep cigar, if you keep tobacco leaves at a particular level of humidification and temperature, because you like to keep it cold, isn't it? Yes. Then, then the oils will remain. They won't dry out. And this is why this has lasted so long. That's exactly right. Here's a one thing though. I want to just check with you, Edwards. You like your cigars dry. I like your cigars dry. You refer to it as being the difference between bread and toast. Both are perfectly fine. It's a matter of taste, but you say that it is actually, I mean, Sherry, our friend, mutual friend Sherry, who first has been crispy. But so this is a preference that you have. And I thought for the viewer, slash listener, who may just assume that they need to keep their cigars nice and squidgy. Actually, there is another option. Well, as I always say, you have to enjoy a cigar anyway you like it. I mean, to me. Can I just say that the list isn't as we won't see is that the crew have been on their feet for the last ten minutes rushing around in a way that I've never seen them before in any episode because we can bring out these sort of treasures. But sorry, you say I'm not going to smoke it, but this cigar has been in my pocket for probably a couple of days. Yeah. And it will be there until it's my emergency. Yeah. Okay. Until you have a daily emergency, is that what they. I do. I mean, to be honest, like, once I'm outside of the studio here and an open air, hopefully, I'll be allowed to light up a cigar just just to get the whiff of it. Yeah. I don't have to, but I would like to. Yeah. I think at that point, it's frustrating to say goodbye, but it's, I think we've covered an enormous amount of grounds. It's so lovely to hear the story again about. It's a play run and setting up this. It's a genuine institution. People from all around the world, when they come to London, they see it as a sort of musty destination, which you won't find on those sort of usual tourist guys. It's just something that those who know really want to be able to make the permit. It's been a wonderful, a fantastic journey for me. I'm now looking back now. I've lived and worked here more than half of my life. And every day, every single day, it's been a joy and a pleasure, even when it's not a joy. and pleasure it still is. With time it gets better. It brings friends together, it brings and creates new friendships. The reason we're sitting here is this now. And I have been fortunate to meet so many lovely lovely people who because of the love of the cigar we became very close friends. And it happens all the time. People are totally strangers, they bump into each other on a corner of a street or in a lobby of a hotel. They light up a cigar if they're allowed to. And next thing you know, beautiful friendships come out with that. Thank you so so much for coming down. And introducing people not only to the world of your particular shop and the place that you sort of partly must call home these days, but then also that other aspect is cigars making that I think is a really important thing to cover. Thank you for inviting this. It's a pleasure and honor Tom. Thank you. I remain Tom Chamberlain and this has been the Luxury Dispatch, the podcast that explores the objects, people and traditions that define the world of luxury. My thanks to Edward and Eddie Saharkin for sharing their knowledge, their stories, and their enduring commitment to one of the great rituals of craftsmanship and hospitality. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please do like, subscribe and leave a comment. We read everyone. Tell us your own rituals of luxury, the crafts you admire most, or the worlds you would like us to step into next. Thank you for listening and happy dressing.