The Untold Lore of Orville Peck

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Because you started as a ballet dancer in South Africa, then moved to Canada where you were a drummer in a punk band, then moved to London for college to be an actor until you were 31 and said, you know what I'm going to do? Make a career pivot. Put on a mask and start making country music. Since then, you have worked with people like Elton John, Willie Nelson, Kylie Minogue, Shania Twain, Diplo, Noah Cyrus, were on Broadway earlier this year, and are even in a Street Fighter movie that comes out next year. You are truly a renaissance man of our generation. And now your latest project, Appaloosa, just came out last Friday. So it is an honor and a privilege to say, Orville Peck, welcome to Nicky at Night. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I am so, you are like such an interesting and fascinating artist. And I have so many questions. One about this project. And it's, it's absolutely amazing. Um, but also really like something that I would love to like, learn about is like, I think your lore as an artist is so crazy. And I have never heard anyone with a story like this, right? So like where, like, I want you to paint me the journey, right? Like you're, you're a, you're doing ballet in South Africa and now you're making country music, right? Like where, like give me the trajectory, not the typical pipeline. No, it's funny. I guess when you lay. Lay it out like that, it is, it is fairly strange for sure. Um, no, I mean, like, I think I just, I don't know what you want to call it was like destined to be performing or whatever, but you know, from when I was really little, um, my biggest passion and my biggest like escape and biggest, you know, everything was to be performing and to, you know, so whether that was like dancing, which I took up. And loved, uh, you know, it was like one of my favorite expressions was when I was a dancer, did that for a long time. Uh, and then, like you said, um, you know, moved to, uh, to Canada, finished high school in Canada, um, made some friends while I was in high school that were like into music. And I'd always loved writing like little lyrics and things growing up and whatever. And so, but then funnily enough, like became a drummer, uh, with like friends from high school in my. First band, um, and then, yeah, toured for God, I mean, like probably 15 years as a drummer in punk bands. Uh, so just like touring Canada, the U S going to Europe, like doing all of that for a long time, uh, but very like DIY very, you know, for the love of it. So I've done the, you know, like driving for 13 hours in a minivan with like my drums on my lap wife, uh, sleeping on someone's. Floor every night, uh, so did that for a long time, kind of while doing acting as well, you know, like I'd started in voiceover as a kid, um, and then transitioned into like loving theater, combining my dancing and my singing into sort of doing musical theater. Um, and then, yeah, it all sort of like, this is the bridge version, obviously, but, uh, you know, then when my, when my punk band broke up, that was like sort of my main. Focus for the longest time. Um, I decided I was going to go, I'd never, like I'd done a lot of acting, but I, I really wanted to, um, focus on like classical theater and get like a really good, like acting training because I also kind of wanted to like, stop feeling like I had to do musical theater. Cause I was a singer and a dancer. Uh, so moved to London, went to a conservatory there eventually, you know, started doing West end plays and doing classical. Theater in London for a few years. And, you know, all the while, since I was a little, little kid, I had all these different interests, but I always loved country music. You know, um, I loved Johnny Cash, Dolly Parton, Patsy Cline, like that era of very classic country. Um, and I also was always obsessed with cowboys. Um, and so when I was living in London, I got kind of this itch again to make music, especially. I think as an actor, the hard part for me was like not being able to be in control of my own creativity, like not making my own work. Um, and so I was like, okay, I'm going to move back to North America. I'm going to start making music again, just on my own. This time I'm going to, you know, step away from the drums and be the singer and the songwriter. Uh, and I'm going to do country music and then not just that, but I'm going to combine all these things. And all these sort of like past lives that I've had, I'm going to like combine them all into one creative project. And that's essentially what I've now been doing for, I guess, almost 10 years. And that's Orville Peck. That's Orville Peck, honey. That's crazy. But that's so cool. Yeah. And like, oh, what an impressive, like, yeah, I'm just going to take a chance on myself and do this. You know what I mean? I mean, I just, you know, like, I think what really taught me that was growing up. In punk and in DIY, um, because when I first started making country, when I wrote, when I started writing for what would become pony, my first album, I wasn't from this world of the music industry at all, even though I had worked as a drummer and whatever, it's just a very different type of like industry, you know, when you're like in that world. Um, so I, I wasn't approaching it like, okay, I'm going to like get a manager and I'm going to be on a major label. Like I did. I didn't think about any of that. I really just approached it the only way I knew how, which was like creatively, honestly, and kind of making it up as I go along. And I, I feel like I still do that to some extent. I mean, this year is a great example of that. Like I've kind of just like, I've gone back to acting and dived into all these things that seemingly seem sort of like offshoots or whatever, but I'm kind of just still making it up as I go along. I have no master plan at all. I mean, I love that. I think that's. It's also like sometimes when the best work emerges, you know, like you can't always force it and, and distance from the thing, I think reminds you why you were inspired from the thing in the first place, like pursuing acting to then remember, like, yeah, I'm a good singer. Exactly. And, you know, I think, I think you nailed it. It's like, you know, there's been times in my career where I think I've definitely become far too aware of like self-aware of kind of like. an audience or like an expectation or the industry, whatever that might be. And like, it's never, it's never like that thinking has never led me in the right direction. It's always been when I go back to just like, what do I want to do creatively? That always seems to like work best. Interesting. So when you're, you're developing, you know, this idea of like what you want your artistry to be, what this Orville Peck is going to be like, when does this idea of the mask come in and the aestheticism of the cowboy? I mean, it came right away. I just, I sort of, I knew that I wanted to create something that I felt like I didn't see within country as a genre that I wanted to see, which was, you know, I always kind of say it was like, I kind of wanted to like envision this like David Bowie of country or something where it was authentic and, and hopefully good songwriting. Uh, but it was, like also presented in this way that felt artistic and creative and theatrical, honestly, you know, and, and very cinematic too. That's like something, especially from Appaloosa that I got, like, it's so cinematic. Um, even like the cabaret, you know, cover, which we'll talk about later on in the episode, but like, like, like you feel the elements of like, of a theater background. Um, and again, like creating this mass, whether that's like the Lone Ranger to like a Phantom of the Opera type, you know what I mean? Like that sort of masked hero character I think is really, really cool. Um, and something I'm really interested about too is like, I think this idea of like a symbol of the fandom is, is something that's so cool. Like something I've talked a lot about on this show is I feel like, like the hallmark of when you know, like a real artist has like real fans is when everybody is dressing up to their show. Like you can just tell, right. Or like somebody like I could walk in a room and, and be like, I'm going to a concert. Tonight. And if I'm wearing a mask of the fringe, you would not even ask who I'm seeing. Right. Right. Like, and, and was that sort of like an intentional decision? Not at all. I mean, you know i i didn't know i truly didn't even know if like anyone would care about my music when i first started writing it you know and so like the fandom that's grown around that and yeah specifically i think these sort of um the mask removed even from me just as like a symbol or whatever you know people are really protective over it um and when i change it up like there's a lot of sensitivities to navigate what people kind of like it to look like or like it to be but yeah i mean how how cool to have like you know uh a group of like people who love what i do so much and and value something i created so much because they feel like it's personal to them i mean that's kind of you know i think that that for me is like the highest success you can do with art is if people are invested in something and they're like oh my god i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this personally yeah and to the point where they like embody it themselves yeah right i think that's like the final frontier of like like this thing didn't just like inspire an emotion but then that emotion drove an action yeah like a random person who you'll never meet is is the beauty of art yeah it's pretty amazing but i saw that you dress up as yourself for halloween yes and somebody insulted you saying you had a bad orville peck costume but i kind of live for it honestly do we have any do is there anything you'd like to say to that person out there um i love it i think that's cool because i think that uh you know i will be honest i didn't make much of an effort in my outfit i was just really wearing my mask and my hat so like so like you're not wrong girl it was kind of shit but but little did you know little did you know little did you know it was cool like it's the second time i've been in this uh in this uh situation over a halloween that i've been dressed as myself and people have thought i'm in costume as me um and so yeah i was in new york for halloween and like you know my my boyfriend and i didn't have like set outfits and i was like why don't we just go as me like we'll both wear masks we'll both wear hats and that way if there's two of us it'll off set people even more that is right um and it was really cool you know because like you get to have i get to have all these interactions where like almost entirely for the most part people are like super excited about me dressed as me but they they don't know it's me right and talking about your music and like getting to experience like oh my god i love orville peck yeah and it's so funny because like they're also being so on like they're being so unguarded because they don't know it's me either so i'm just getting their like really like vulnerable kind of like low-key interaction it's really cool you're like actually can i play you a few demos yeah right exactly tell me what you think of this and a few people came up and talked to me and like in the night and then it started to dawn on them that it was me and you just see like everything change you know what i mean but it's crazy it's like you have tattoos you know like that i feel like would be the thing that would give it away for me for sure but i think it's just like it's my i think it's my new move i think i'm gonna go out every halloween you know like they say halloween's when the dead can like walk among the living like that's literally what i was able that's right that's right you're one day a year where you get to wake up literally that's so funny um i really want to get into some of the collaborations you've done because the list is crazy i know it is really like um and also interesting that like you know going from your last project to this project is like full collaboration project on every song to this which is a lot more so only only one feature but i think i'm just gonna lift off a few names and i just want to hear like your take and like experience on working with them i mean first i have to say like you did a gay cowboy song with willie nelson who's 92 that's so crazy it's the coolest thing ever it really is i don't think i don't know if i'll ever come to terms with like fully sort of having that sink in um but yeah that i mean that is i mean i think that's probably the highlight of my career so far for sure i just it was so like i spent so many years in my career like sort of unknowingly desperately trying to like like validate my place in country yeah even though like i thought i was someone that didn't care about that i think i i did obviously oh yeah i do um and trying to sort of like constantly like like like pitch this pitch my case or plead my case about why i was country and why i make country and why i deserve to be in country and then i think you know when willie nelson asks you to do a song with him and it's a gay cowboy song that that that's sort of like that's sort of uh insecurity or like maybe like slight ego or whatever it was that was sort of like fueling that for me like it just goes away because at that point it's like i don't need anyone's cosign yeah what better literally what better like i don't know what to tell you like exactly it's like oh no a country radio station isn't playing this but like willie nelson is so i'm like it doesn't no one's opinion matters about that anymore it's like really put to bed for me and and that something that you just said reminded me of a lyric from your first album where you're you know tired of begging them just to compete yeah and what country's a genre has been radicalized a lot over the years how was like stepping into that want to be the one who's always in the know about the game the scores the plays here's a tip the apple sports app just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules and when your team scores it shows up right on your iphone lock screen making it easy to check in anytime so rule the chat and download apple sports for free on the app store or find it on your new iphone the lemonati has spent decades keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows their lemon agenda has infiltrated everything even our music that hit song named after the color of lemons not a coincidence big lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years think about it but now seven up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda now lime comes first seven up flip the sip well stepping into it was easy because like i said i i have spent almost all my life kind of like militantly believing that i can do anything and uh belong anywhere and i'm not going to be told otherwise and especially if someone's telling me otherwise then i'm like well now i want to do it better than everyone and i want to like absolutely i have that fire in me like i always just have it's it's like i don't know it's like petty to some level even you know i don't think it's petty i think it's it's a desire to prove them wrong also because you know there's someone else like you who feels the same absolutely i mean i you know it's funny like i don't get like i don't get like blood boiling angry very easily at all but i will tell you the one thing that i really makes me like see red in my life is witnessing unfairness like or someone being left out yeah um that really bothers me and whether that's me and probably because i felt left out a lot of growing up but like especially if i see anyone else being excluded or being sort of like marginalized for something it it it makes me it's like the one thing that kind of makes me feel crazy so like i think there's part of that as well to just sort of like get ahead of that by like announcing like i'm here whether you like it or not yeah like but so getting into it was easy that was the easy part and then i think yeah i sort of campaigned for a long time about you know my sort of right to be there which i'm happy i did because i think i can look back now and see just objectively and quite proudly that i think i did help um open some pathways in country that i think some people maybe didn't think they had a place for before and then obviously that's been now happening with a lot of people and we're sort of like chipping away at the damn wall yeah but yeah you know i've recently sort of decided that that's not my it the the the battle of trying to convince anyone that you belong somewhere i think it's stronger just to go in there and belong and do you and focus on your art and who you are and exist and be visible and be seen from rather than like you know spend the majority of my time trying to convince people uh that i belong there it's like you know i would rather just belong and prove them wrong by doing that yeah i mean you cannot change somebody's mind who doesn't want to be changed no and it's not your job to try and convince them why you should be in the room it's your job to create the art that is worthy of being exactly and then it's like you know you already belong there truly yeah and if someone else doesn't see that or know that it's actually on them you know what i mean so yeah and i mean i like talking about you like this gateway thing like i really feel like that's what happened with like cowboy carter and into shibuzi you know what i mean like that we're seeing how like that actually creates real ripple effect 100 and it's like you know at some point it's like this isn't my job to educate you like unfortunately like it's hard enough trying to like and you're doing a disservice to yourself totally you're the only - You're the only one suffering in that scenario. - You're just not liking things you could like. - Yeah, exactly. much sadder existence yeah the visibility of diversity and country is at the forefront of my mind but i don't spend the energy trying to convince people who don't want to be convinced yeah that's awesome um and like speaking of an artist i think it's really you know like use their platform and legacy eternally to like champion new people is elton john yeah what was it like working with him the best i mean he's like he's so funny he's so witty and playful like you know everything is just like a funny joke like you know he cracks me up and he is like you know he is he was such a staple in my life growing up i mean elton john was just like both my parents loved elton john i feel like he was just always being played in my house like so that to me is just like the fact that i know that person i've gotten to work with them i've gotten to know them and like you know know his family like they're just it's it's just it's uh he's amazing and he's just like the coolest person ever yeah like i'm like he's like 78 and he's like doing a podcast yeah he's amazing on apple music with like lola young i'm like he's living his best life and he deserves it he just loves me like i've never seen anybody where you can just tell that they love the art form so much and have just dedicated their entire life to it and even reaching the pinnacle of that success i'm like okay now it's my turn to use this to like platform people that i just am interested in and i think are talented yeah it's it's it's the best thing he's so it's so cool and it very like i think about like one day in my career like how do i find my own version to do something like that you know what i mean um but and i want to take a complete different direction and something that i've like found very interesting about like you know your collaborations in the past is the way you kind of like make other people do country right we're just like diplo and kylie minogue like we got to talk about midnight ride uh yeah well i mean that's a perfect example you know with with stampede which is my album that has all the collabs on yeah um you know i knew what i wanted i didn't want it to just be an album of orville peck songs with people featured on it i wanted to have each song be like a 50 50 blend of like me and the other artist right and so that's why every song is like sort of a departure from my usual music and also sort of its own thing entirely uh the kylie one like you know uh obviously when i when i hit up kylie uh and asked if she wanted to do it i was like you know i want to make like a country disco song because i wanted to i was like what would be you know the love child of like me and kylie right uh and so you know she was on board right away and like you know kylie kylie has a country album actually she's a country girl she loves country and so uh she was like immediately down and yeah so that's kind of how that evolved and the songs on stampede were kind of a out of that sort of um like uh way of thinking i think that's so cool also it's like this is what i do what is your artistic interpretation of me yeah i mean and to like get that feedback is fascinating i just think it's a cool way it's a cooler way to truly collaborate rather than like i said just be like 12 orville peck songs with like someone else singing like a verse or whatever totally there's no shade if that's what people do but it wasn't for me you know right or like i think remix albums in general or something like the charlie album was and like yes you have bonnie bear but also julian casablanca's but also shy girl yeah you know like it's like creating this cinematic universe yeah that you are get to be the epicenter of and and you know what i mean like you can see the degree of of relation to you but also like kylie minogue to willie nelson is crazy you know what i mean like that is i know all those people in one room is like the craziest thing to think about that's awesome um and then i really want to talk about you know like one of your most frequent collaborators you know what i mean like noah cyrus oh yes my sister you're i mean you want to talk about two voices good at harmonizing together yeah it's funny like i think we we realized that after the fact but you know like the thing with noah is like it's in my just like life experience i think it's really rare when you meet someone that you know you kind of hear about people talking about like soulmates or kindred souls or whatever kindred spirits and like with noah it was just like you know we're from totally different sort of places backgrounds you know we're different ages like there's a lot of things that we don't have in common but like when i tell you that we just started to realize like this was like seeing a part of yourself like we just connected in the way that just felt so familiar like i feel like i can't remember a time in my life that i didn't know noah like i feel like she's just been in my life my whole life you know like i feel like she's just been in my life my whole life that's so beautiful i know it's it's really special and like you know i think we've struggled with a lot of the same things of being like extremely sensitive people in this industry uh we like the same kind of songwriting we try to push ourselves to be vulnerable we've experienced a lot of the same kind of hurt um so yeah like you know collaborating with noah we've done three songs now together uh and we keep we we joke we're like let's just keep writing songs together because we like you're seven away from an album i mean we just it's like you know it's it's like you're getting there when it works it works yeah yeah so where did atchafalaya on on we're getting into appaloosa now your brand new ep what where did that the idea from that song come from yeah the atchafalaya basin is my favorite highway in america it's like uh it's in louisiana it's when you're leaving new orleans and it's all over the bayou and it's like just water everywhere yeah i was leaving so that the thought behind the lyrics is i was uh i was heading to new york to do cabaret and i knew i was going to be away from home and my partner and my dog and my life for a long time which i hadn't really done in a very long time and i was like kind of frightened about it especially like sober like you know it was it felt like a big it felt like something that when i was in my 20s would have been the easiest thing in the world yeah and now i'm like i was i was nervous about it right so that song is sort of about uh leaving the thing you love and traveling to go do something else you love uh and sort of the the experience of that and and noah you know was dealing with a similar thing uh and so i was like hey do you want to do you want to jump on this song and we can do that yeah god situations like that are so crazy because it's damned if you do damned and if you don't you know like you love what you're leaving behind but also you know you have to do this thing and yeah um and that's so beautiful like what a way to share that yeah turn that pain into some into art together is like it's one of my favorite songs i love it yeah it's so beautiful also i'm like i cannot get over how you're like yeah that's my favorite highway in the midwest when you're like not like even from america i'm like yeah i too american born have a favorite highway in the midwest like but yes it's my favorite highway in all of america to be honest but i've seen a lot of highways in my day you know what i mean i'm like like that like just at your reference and and love of like the what is country music in america is so beautiful and even cooler when you learn that like this is like a not a love you were born into you know i mean it's like an acquired taste over time yeah well i think it's also like you know it's part of my storytelling within country is like i got to explore a lot of this country in my early touring days and like it you know a lot of that made i everyone was just like oh my god i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this like i'm always singing about like cities and states and stuff um but it's because that's a big part of my story like i was just like on the road for god next year i will have been touring 20 years whoa yeah so it's kind of that's really cool though and again that's beautiful and i'm only i'm only 20 which is yeah that's crazy you just spawned i don't know how on a tour bus yeah like in a video game you literally just you were an avatar that you were created exactly um but you're like i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this album like that is so cool yeah it's always been my favorite song in the show i've loved cabaret since i was i think 13 i think i first saw the film um and i just always thought that song was so funnily enough it's like it it kind of feels like the same delicate combination of emotions to me as something like i will always love you where maybe this time you know like it's a song about hoping obviously like maybe this time this will be the relationship that will work right yeah but it's not just laid out as simple as that it's it's like it's hopeful self-aware self-deprecating sad like promising it's got so many complex emotions in it which is how it really is when we experience these things like it's never just like you know i'm sad this is a sad song and it's it kind of reminds me of i will always love you in the sense that that's a song about and also a song about leaving something you love so much that you don't want to leave but you have to leave that's that's a more realistic story to relate to than just i'm sad because i'm leaving a relationship it's not as easy as that you know right and i don't i've always felt this way about maybe this time and i don't know if it bad was like the intention of it but like it feels very much like a queer song yeah - Yeah, it definitely has like queer ache in it for sure. - And that, like hearing you do it, I think was so cool for that, reason of like you know like maybe this time what he's talking about is a man that will actually love me the way I love him yeah absolutely and like whether that is I don't you know like due to the theme no way that's not like actually what I think it's about but such a beautiful interpretation but I think that makes sense because you know the character of Sally Bowles is she is such a unique and I think a misunderstood person uh and I think when you feel sort of othered or unique or kind of on your own path I think those are very similar feelings of like lack in your life of the things that you wish were just normal and easy um so yeah I think it definitely feels like a queer coded song and also it's so the lyrics are so country to me it just feels like it feels like a Patsy Cline song to me you know like right and so it felt like it felt like the easiest transition just to turn it into sort of like I wanted it to sound kind of like this campfire torch song yeah , right and Cabaret also like as a production is like a very political yeah it's about the rise of fascism for sure which is like cool that you were able to use art in this political way in like a both ways oh my god yeah yeah and doing the show in the time we're living in it was like you know it was very it was very kind of obvious and apparent to all of us and everyone in the in the audience that like you know we're doing a show set in pre-World War II Berlin but it nothing anyone's saying on stage sounds out of place from where we're living and what we're doing right now which is the craziest thing but yeah do you think art is like an important tool for creating those sort of change in people's mind yeah I think it's the most important tool I mean at least it was for me like you know I think the thing that art can do that maybe a political speech might not necessarily do is like it relays something to the listener through emotion that they can they're then connect to and be like oh I understand that because like I've experienced that in my own way or I can empathize with that hearing it laid out like this and broken down in this emotional way I think art can sometimes move people to understanding more than anything I mean you know even like a film I can think of so many films that have like moved me so much that they've changed the way I think that's something in me that I never thought of before you know I think art is intrinsic for that oh my god and even like the most basic examples like Star Wars I'm like Star Wars is about imperialism you know what I mean like great art is always political a thousand percent and I think also it's very disarming in that way too you know if you're like like what you said comparing you know a song to a political speech like if I'm like hey do you hey person do you want to watch blank speech by blank politician like no is the answer right I'm like hey can you want to check out this new song yes is the answer right and I'm like hey can you want to check out this new song yes is the answer right is always the answer yeah because it's you know art is not doesn't alienate or it shouldn't it should be it should connect to anybody in any circumstance yeah well speaking a bit of alienation I want to hear the story about my side of the mountain yeah that's um that's a song about letting go of someone uh and you know it was uh for my personal story it was about temporarily separating and letting go of someone that I love very much and we both knew we had to do that even though we didn't want to at least for a period of time um and so it's sort of about learning to make that decision for yourself even when it's the hardest thing to do um and the mountain my side of the mountain reference is like you know uh for my personal story the person lived just one canyon over from me so I would lay in bed at night knowing that this person I missed so badly was like that's not even a 10 minute drive away from me on the other side of the mountain uh you're such a cowboy what do you mean he lived one canyon over like what are you talking about not a townhouse not a cul-de-sac hell no just a casual canyon over yeah that's crazy so that's what that song is about and uh yeah that's but very very beautiful I mean like I don't know I think that about that kind of thing a lot with moving here like I moved from the east coast and um that's my side of the mountain or my mom's side of the mountain or you know like I don't know I just think as like you make all these decisions in life that you know you have to do like pursuing art or moving to Canada London and but also there's this opportunity cost of like leaving the people that you love yeah and I think it's like you know the one line in the hook is carve a little life out and call it my side of the mountain I think for me it's like I spend so much time in my life trying to make other people comfortable and happy in my life and kind of not ever thinking about what I needed or wanted uh and exhausting myself by that and so that song is also sort of about finally making the decision to yeah carve out a little life in my life and kind of like I don't know I don't know what to do I don't know how to do it I don't know how to do it I don't know how to do it yeah you can't people please your way into personal happiness no you'll it's there's a it's a never ending pit because you're offering yourself up without any uh guarantee that you're ever going to get that in return or whatever and you probably shouldn't be offering yourself up if you're doing it for something in return so is drift away kind of about that same situation then drift away is actually more about um it's about growing up in a place where you're like I don't know I don't know a sleepy kind of town where there's nothing going on and you know it's it's a throwback to this nostalgic part of my life when I was a teenager I'd moved to Canada I was living in Vancouver which is sort of like you know it's a city but it's it's got a very small town feel to it and there's not a ton going on especially for you know teenagers and we were all from like you know broke families and whatever so we had to just like make our own fun and that's that's kind of what that song is about it's an ode to the creativity that you have to sort of manifest when you're like a weirdo kid in a small town but again like that's where something like Orville Peck stems from talk to any like incredible drag queen they're a weirdo kid from a small ass town like that is that is what that fosters because you have to just like create that stuff and it's something about like you have to have this like ruthless sense of self-belief right like if you were if every single person in your high school called you a weirdo but you were like loving that artistic thing so much that you continue to dedicate your life in it like that is something that you have to have like you have to have this like ruthless sense of self-belief level of I think confidence and self-determination that just builds the foundation for like the work ethic required to be an artist yeah it is really it's the it's like the breeding ground for an artist because you are forced to believe and be passionate about what you make for yourself because no one else is giving you that yeah um something else I was really like thinking about when listening to his eb like literally like first three seconds is just like how cinematic your music feels like everything feels like I literally feel like we're about to like be in a like you know what I mean like and have you ever thought about like writing for film I have um and you know I'm always like kind of writing and creating little things uh that may or may not come to fruition but yeah I mean I've always said like I I didn't grow up I've always played instruments but like I never I don't know like theory or technical stuff I mean I know more now from being in you know that's crazy because you're like a ridiculous vocalist well yeah like I don't know how to read music I don't know like how half the time I don't know what I'm playing on the guitar like all my band laugh at me because I'll be playing something and my fingering is totally like different than what you're supposed to be doing but like crazy because I just taught myself you know what I mean like I didn't have lessons or anything like that really I mean and so I I think I I I naturally and instinctively have always approached music from like a visual place and so you know that's I loved music videos growing up so much and that's why I always love to like put a lot of effort into music videos because for me when I'm listening to music I'm I'm picturing the whole like fantasy oh me too me too or I have had songs where I like was like and about them and I saw the music video and I said this is the best song I've ever heard yeah because if you can connect that that that sort of like scene in your mind I mean that is create not just like a song that people enjoy listening to but if you can make them feel a whole world that they're escaping into I mean that's like the real fun shit for me at least and I think that's like a world building is the quintessential thing of any artist especially now you know we're talking about something I've talked a lot about a lot on the show is that I feel like music is like music is a visual medium yeah now you know like we used to hear a song on the radio for the first time and that was like the discovery point and now it's like you're scrolling on tiktok you're watching a music video you see a friend share it on their instagram story with something you whatever that thing is like there's now perpetually this idea of an image tied to a song right and that is so important I think to making people understand the thing yeah and to me it's like you know it doesn't even feel like a challenge in the sense that I think for me it's sometimes easier to get the full story across when there's like a video attached to it because it helps you know tell even more of the story of what I'm getting at or what I'm trying to evoke other people feeling or you know like whatever that might be so yeah i've always loved like the visuals and i mean obviously but like to me they go it's just hand in hand like all of it is one all of it is like one piece of this greater thing that has to go together i think about like chapters of a story yeah you know what i mean for sure um what is your favorite music video of all time i don't think there's a loaded question no it's uh i mean one that comes to mind immediately i i don't know if i can like officially say it's my favorite but the first one that comes to mind is uh smashing pumpkins 1979 great choice they you know it is like it felt like escaping into that song when you watch that video and you know i mean that's a song as well that like there's just so much nostalgia and like i've i love that video my whole i think the 90s like 90s alternative era had some of the best you know amazing music videos that those are the ones that definitely pop up for me and come to mind but yeah that's that's always been just like a a benchmark staple for me is that video that's a great video mine is hold up by beyonce oh my god yeah when she opens that door and the water comes down so good it's so good yeah it's like one of those like things and people are like i remember where when 9-11 happened when michael jackson died the bye sister video yeah and hold up by beyonce like those are the things that are like live in my mind rent free yeah it's sad because i think there's like there's like obviously less effort and focus put on music videos now because i think they just don't they obviously don't have the kind of like you know music videos in the 90s like that like soldier record it was crazy it was mtv and vh1 like that was what it was but i still like you know probably i guess uh maybe maybe foolishly for some people but for me it's like i still put as much effort as i can into music videos i love that combination of those two mediums i think it's like it's my favorite thing totally i agree i i think music videos have never been more important um but i think it's like interesting the era of music we're in now is like prior to that there was one like visual of music right you had one music video and that went on mtv and like it was played all the time whereas now it's like there's so many different visual interpretations of music well even other people's right like setting your music to something they're creating yeah exactly you see what happens on tiktok and like some random thing becomes a trend or or um even just like artists like doing still making videos about their music but it's like shot vertically you know what i mean like i think that sort of change in medium of video is like something that um all like the music industry hasn't like figured out how to navigate fully yet right yeah well it's sort of been it's sort of allowed people to kind of soundtrack their lives in a way that we can all witness which is also cool in a way actually you know like i mean even just putting a song to like i don't know your like cooking video or whatever like you're you are combining you're combining several mediums there which is like you know i think that's cool right i imagine it's somebody like they're like a van life creator they're in the they're outside a canyon yeah and they're having like a steak and like eggs and you know what i mean they're doing orville peck song i can see that i also want to see the complete opposite of someone just doing like the most foul mukbang to like one of my like saddest songs like i want to see the contrast 300 nugget challenge to let me drown and they're just like yeah i want to see that there we go and you know maybe you partake in that well i'm a kind of a yeah i'm a bit of a chaos agent in some ways so i want to see a little bit of that two final questions i have actually three final questions i have for you one we gotta say you're in a street fighter movie yeah that's how did that happen they asked me it's crazy like did you have your did you play the game would you know that i played the game a ton growing up with i have two older brothers and we played like you know mortal kombat and street fighter and all that stuff growing up and i always played as this character vega and i they and so the people from legendary came to see me in cabaret uh and then they had a meeting and they they just like offered it to me um and i was like gobsmacked because in one year i manifested my dream role on broadway my favorite role when i was from a video game when i really nuts no you're a renaissance man i told you this or a witch i don't know are we gonna burn me or something no literally there's a sigil that's what the mask is hiding we should like see if i float if there's a bathtub here no that's right we're gonna do or when you drown they put you in the water but no it was like what a what a crazy year for that it's uh i feel i don't even know if the word's lucky but because that sounds like maybe it's like totally up to something else i think you know there's a lot of me focusing for many years to try and do these kind of things but i do feel like super grateful that this year i got to do some things that were life-changing and dreams like just bucket list year yeah and then as well still able to like you know make music and put out some music i'm proud of my year no that's impressive there's a lot going on yeah a lot going on um okay and then uh my second to last question i gotta ask and speaking of manifestation this is me trying to manifest okay so you did a song with trixie mattel yep jackson would you do a song with britney broski yeah i mean you know britney sent me her music years ago uh when she was first starting to work on it and i was so like gobsmacked that i was like where has this voice just casually a crazy vocalist like i was like bored and so yeah of course i'd love to sing with britney i mean like you know there's nothing more i like than making music with and or creating with friends like that's the best thing yeah of course britney's so talented she's so talented people don't even know like truly you don't people don't even realize yet like her voice is nuts but even beyond the voice like i saw if you're watching any of her youtube videos about like art history when she ran it they are so interesting like she has like such like a brain in the way she like comprehends art and and thinks about the symbolism of things that make you would make such an incredible artist please release now because her humor is the way that she disarms her people and like confronts the world but like she is incredibly deep and talented and soulful and like you know britney's amazing yeah yeah okay so my last question i always like to end the show with this one um if you were to pick one song off this project that you really want people to like listen to and like sit with you know like like like read the lyrics and like think about the meaning what is that song and why i think you know i think it would be either my side of the mountain which i've talked a little about or or maybe oh my days oh my days is the first love song i've ever written because all my songs are about like heartbreak but oh my days is the first time i wrote a song about falling in love with someone and i'd come out of this terrible era like my bronco era what bronco is all about about this like awful relationship and how hurt i was and this is the first person i fell in love with out of that and it's again it's not just a simple love song it's about like you know running towards someone even though like every fiber of your heart and your mind and everything else is telling you not to do it because it's so afraid yeah and so there's like i know what i would hope is like some complexity in that song that i think people could probably relate to because it feels like something i know a lot of people go through it's like you know learning how to like trust again do you regret running to that person no i'm still with them really yeah that's see that's so beautiful i can think of a better way to end like that is the orville thank you so much for coming on dude i have been looking forward to this all week you have no idea i appreciate it so i'm honored that you sit down with me and um everybody go stream appalooza what are you doing i'm gonna hope that you've already done it by now but the link is in the description and orville thank you so much want to be the one who's always in the know about the game the scores the plays here's a tip the apple sports app just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules and when your team scores it shows up right on your iphone lock screen making it easy to check in anytime so rule the group chat and download apple sports for free on the app store or find it on your new iphone coca-cola for the big for the small the short and the tall peacemakers risk takers for the optimists pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new coca-cola for everyone pick up some coca-cola at a store near you thank you so much