The Untold Lore of Jesse Rutherford (The NBHD)

For decades, a shadowy organization called the Lemonati has kept lemon on top and lime in the shadows. Look around, lemon forward sodas, even lemon forward songs. We ran the tracks, slowed them down, reversed them, and squeezed out the truth. That's lemon propaganda right there. But now, 7up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda. Join the 7 uprising. Flip the sip. Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season, you create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross. Zach started playing this riff all the time and then asked me to record it for him. And I was like, "Sure, I'll record it." And then I recorded it and then was like, "Hey, can I try some stuff on here, like some vocals?" And he was like, "Yeah, sure, why not? I don't know what I'm gonna do with it." And all I am is a man. I want the world in my hands. And then it was "Sweater Weather." Really? So the very first thing we did was that. That's great. That's so crazy. You have four of the biggest songs in the history of Spotify. The Neighborhood! I don't even know what to call The Neighborhood, though. I also think this entire concept of genres is slowly dissolving. It's been the conversation about bands don't exist anymore. But there always is. And now we have geese in the lead. There's always an example of something. Jesse Rutherford, I could not be more honored and excited to welcome you to Nicky at Night. Thanks for having me. I mean, there are like few artists I associate more with my adolescence than The Neighborhood, honestly. And I mean, like your first album came out in 2013, which is like right when I started high school. And then, you know what I mean? Like, it's just one of the few artists I've like aged with, I felt in my life. Well, thanks for sticking around, dude. But I want to start all the way in the beginning. Like, how did The Neighborhood meet? Brandon and I met sophomore year of high school. So I was like 16. And then I met Zach, Jeremy, and Mike a couple years later. They're a few years younger than me. So I met them. But we all played in the local like heavy music scene. Yeah. Like metal kind of music. Right. So I kind of seen them around. And then we became friends. Well, then I kind of like quit that genre and started like rapping. Interesting. I took a hard pivot, making like more like is pretty horrible. But like, you know, like rappy, like, but really, like, I think pop was always my focus. Interesting. That was always like my, even when I was making heavier music, it was like, you know, my influence growing up was like, in sync. Really? Yeah. So I wasn't really super into like rock. But then all the boys around town were doing that. And I just wanted to get up and do the dance. And you like acquired this. So I was like, all right, I'll rock with this. And it was like, it was MySpace era too. So I pretty much just wanted excuses to make like MySpace layouts. Interesting. And then, yeah, it was kind of like all at once, all happening all at once. Like I, I think the creative process of like creating a project, like, you know, a world. Yeah. It was really, was really like exciting to me early on. But met the other boys a little bit later on. And then we all kind of were friends for a while. Brandon went to college. So I didn't see him for a couple of years. And then I stuck around, made friends with Zach, Jeremy and Mike. And then we kind of just were best buds for a couple of years. Just getting to know each other. Never really wrote songs together. Like kind of jammed a little bit here and there, but didn't really have a plan to do that. And then, and then eventually it worked out. And then eventually it, it, it happened. I mean, I've told the story a million times, but you know, Zach started playing this riff all the time and then asked me to record it for him. And I was like, sure, I'll record it. And then I recorded it and then was like, Hey, can I try some, some stuff on here? Like some, some vocals. And all I am is a man. And he was like, yeah, sure. That's what I'm gonna do with it. And then it was "Sweat Weather". Really? That's so crazy. I mean that we're going to have to have a whole section about that song. And it's, it is such like, again, also what I talked about, like this time capsule also of, um, I think the internet's relationship with music is really fascinating, right? Like even what you said about MySpace is something I've talked a lot about on this channel of like, I think MySpace was the first time the internet, like remember when you have like a song on your profile? I mean, you were really young during that period. Did you ever have it? MySpace? Yeah. I kind of, but I wasn't. I think like Tumblr and Facebook is really when it started. For sure. For sure. Like pick up for me. Yes. Yeah. But we, I'm so interested to talk to you about Tumblr. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Because I feel like that was so integral to the like first takeoff of the neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. And also something I think about a lot was like, that was like really one of the rare times in history the internet had a specific aestheticism to it. Yeah. Like you had this love of grunge and black and white and all of those things. Like, do you, was Tumblr ever like a specific strategy for you or did it just happen? Yeah. Well, it was just kind of what was happening. Like, you know, it's like you either, you know, get with something or you kind of get lost or you get, you know, or you, there's nothing wrong with this either, but like, you know, you outgrow things. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm not ready to, I mean, I'm still not ready to outgrow the internet. Like, I'm enjoying, I'm enjoying TikTok. Yeah. Like, I think TikTok's the best it's ever been to a certain degree. Interesting. You know, other than MySpace. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it was integral for sure. Like, it was, and it wasn't even like a, you know, this is what you gotta do and, and it wasn't, it wasn't, that kind of conversation wasn't there yet. It was just like, was fun. Right. And it was social and it was creative. Yeah. And that's why I was interested in it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that people were very, um, like so communicative on in a way that I think like isn't with social media anymore. Like, like you don't open Instagram and spend most of the time talking to people that you actually know in real life. No, not yet. But you did on MySpace and you did on TikTok. You know what I mean? Right. Like that was like an interesting, and I think that's why music spread so quickly there. Yeah. Was like, there was this deeper intimacy of like the connections and dialogue you were having on the internet at that time. Yeah, it's true. The intimate part is missing now. Yeah. Right. It's like podcasting. You don't feel like you're like trying to talk to as many people as possible and hope that they all get what you're saying. Yeah. As opposed to like, I'm sharing this thing with my friends. Exactly. Yeah. The social part kind of went away from it. Right. It just turned into media. Yes. I totally agree. That's a great take. I think, I think like what I've enjoyed about TikTok is that it's actually, I'm not really like a group chat person. Right. Um, but it's, it's kind of helped me to, to, to interact. In group chats a little more because, and I like how the algorithm works and how it like, I mean, you know, you can be creeped out by it or whatever, like how well it like knows you or learns you. Yeah. But like when a friend of mine sends me a video and then I watch it and I love it and it's really funny. And then it starts, you know, being in my algorithm more. Totally. I like that. I think that's a good thing. And it kind of helps me be social. I'm not as social on the app, but I find myself sending a lot of TikToks out to crits and stuff and like socializing that way. You know, but some of my friends don't, like some of my friends don't even have the app, you know? Totally. And I'm like, oh, okay. Like I'm for sure unk, but I'm also like, it's fun on here. You guys are crazy. This is sick. Yeah. And I, there were so many things that I agree with. Like, I mean, also I'm very, you know, I think there's a lot of like discussion and controversy around TikTok's impact on music and whether people feel like that was a really good thing or a negative thing. I am of the belief, I think it's one of the best things that ever happened. Hey, it's been good for me. It happened. Yeah. It has been very good for you. And I mean, I think what's. But I understand the frustration with it too. It's scary. It's daunting. And it's like, it seems like it's the only way. Yeah. You know? And that is scary. That, that I understand anybody, any artist is how it's just like, oh God, I want to make this work so bad. But also, you know what I mean? It's, it's daunting. Right. And I think people have a tough time with the idea that it's not the only job of an artist to make a song anymore. Right. To, to be a successful artist is world building. What we said, it's to have a message. It's to have a defined visual, to immerse someone into some, into this thing deeper than just what they're hearing one time while they're driving to work on the radio. Yeah. And, and I think for many artists, it's scary. Because they don't like know how to balance all those things at once, especially like the beginning of your career. Yeah. You're not like, you don't know exactly who you are as an artist yet. Do you feel like that was one of the benefits of being in a band? Right? Of like, you're getting discovered at 21. You're getting signed. Like, you didn't go for any of those experiences alone. Yeah, that's true. That's true. um yeah i mean that that's that definitely a lovely part of it not having to be alone i think that's probably that's probably subconsciously how i how i designed it and i i i noticed listening back to songs years you know because like you put out music and you kind of just let it go and then years later maybe you come back and listen right but yeah i've always kind of that's been a theme in the music for me a lot too is like not wanting to be alone yeah you know and i i uh which now i'm at a point in my life where i'm like i think i need to be okay with being alone a little bit sometimes interesting in order to like make it through this thing and i do think that there's a beauty and clarity that comes from that as an artist yeah you know like um this idea of creating something without the perception of it being perceived by another person you know what i mean like that is just if you're really trying to like enter flow state and writing or something like that that's the most unfiltered you yeah i guess if in isolation yeah yeah yeah yeah it's true sometimes i mean like you know it all it it is all performance as well so sometimes there's a pressure yeah a nice pressure of having someone there that you care about their opinion because you want to you want to yeah you want to perform your best you want to do your best version of you totally you know i like to have people to to bounce things off of um yeah yeah um also do you listen to your own music often like that's something some artists are very like i never i put out a song and i'll never listen to it yet that's kind of what i was saying it's like when you're in the creating the creative process or the yeah the creation process rather it's your only i mean for me i'm like listening to it all the time yeah yeah um and then like i get moods i get in moods where i'm like oh i want to hear that one and then like i'll go listen to something but like yeah but yeah usually when it's released and it's like within the first year of release i'm usually not listening to it yeah um but then like excuse me i'll go back i'll go back and listen yeah um and then also nowadays like as things you know something kind of starts trending or something i'll like go back and listen to it and be like wait we did that that one was good yeah yeah like oh that is pretty fire okay cool yeah i mean they're like really this shit's okay if you say so right how how was that experience with sweater weather um in what way i mean well i mean it's the same song in history yeah it's crazy well and seven years like after it came out you know what i mean like that is so beautiful to me yeah it's just it's uh it's been a very steady build yeah so it's like it kind of feels like uh it just i guess it makes sense like maybe that sounds cocky but it's just like it's been a long time the song wasn't it's not like it came out two ago and it's like right you know doing like like you know i see something like somber happening and i'm like are you kidding me this dude you know in a year yeah you watch something you know so sorry i'm i'm a i'm a i'm a person of the internet like i'm i'm right there comparing myself all the time like an idiot and like compared to other things i it's it's like it makes sense it's like yeah bro it's been around for a long time and i'm very grateful that it's consistently been a big song it's like right accidentally a seasonal kind of thing you know it kind of accidentally has fallen into different types of trends right and i'm not mad at any of them you know what i mean like it's just uh it's so beyond me it's so not my so not mine anymore interesting that it's does that ever feel weird as an artist for to not feel yours anymore yeah i guess but but it's i think it's kind of i like it yeah i like what it does for me because i think i could psych myself out so easily i'm so like aware like painfully aware that like i'm always searching for something to like make sense and i think that helps balance it out for me interesting yeah yeah but i mean i think like what what i think of that song and i mean your entire discography but like i think one of your great greatest strengths as an artist in the band is like to just capture a feeling with the vocals of the production and like that is why these songs have had such longevity i think to me because it's like they're tied to this feeling you have and feelings never disappear you know what i mean yeah um and and love or heartbreak or whatever you know it depends on the song of course but like they that's what they've been very eternal to me yeah you know what i mean and i also think one of your greatest skills as a writer is this ability to to like balance pain and pleasure or like yearning and heartbreak sure you know what i mean like even even uh like the first line of pretty boy right it's like even if my heart stops beating you're the only thing that i need right it's like my heart is gonna stop but also because i love you right yeah and that i don't know like those juxtapositions and your writing i think have always just been what has pulled me in and and has made them a term all thanks yeah i mean i'm always i'm always uh looking for balance and looking for contrast and like i just said like trying to make sense of something and um it's very hard for me to uh you know like i've said this before too but like it's hard for me to just point a finger and put a blame on somebody i guess doesn't really end up making sense to me i always have to kind of bring it back to me and being like well why why do i feel that way about about that situation about that situation and i'm like well why do i feel that way about that person or person or person or you know because you know and reflect on on you know because you know and reflect on on you know because you know and reflect on on my own my own my own part and yeah a lot i mean most of the part and yeah a lot i mean most of the part and yeah a lot i mean most of the songs are about relationships songs are about relationships songs are about relationships yeah but they're not all about uh intimate yeah but they're not all about uh intimate yeah but they're not all about uh intimate relationships they're not all about relationships they're not all about relationships they're not all about like romantic relationships but where like romantic relationships but where like romantic relationships but where a lot of songs are about people and you a lot of songs are about people and you a lot of songs are about people and you know experiences that i'm having with know experiences that i'm having with know experiences that i'm having with the people you know whether it is like a the people you know whether it is like a the people you know whether it is like a a partner or like a a friend or a parent a partner or like a a friend or a parent a partner or like a a friend or a parent yeah or an object you know you know yeah or an object you know you know yeah or an object you know you know interesting yeah do you feel like when interesting yeah do you feel like when interesting yeah do you feel like when do you feel most inspired to write then do you feel most inspired to write then do you feel most inspired to write then is it after you're interacting with a is it after you're interacting with a is it after you're interacting with a person person person most inspired you know i don't know i most inspired you know i don't know i most inspired you know i don't know i mean i i i just do it all the time i i i just do it all the time i i i just do it all the time i i don't know that's beautiful yeah just i don't know that's beautiful yeah just i don't know that's beautiful yeah just kind of a part of my diet like it just kind of a part of my diet like it just kind of a part of my diet like it just feels like i i i need to do that i need feels like i i i need to do that i need feels like i i i need to do that i need to be able to get stuff out of me if to be able to get stuff out of me if to be able to get stuff out of me if anything i've become a bit more of an anything i've become a bit more of an anything i've become a bit more of an avoidant songwriter avoidant songwriter avoidant songwriter like uh like uh like uh i think i think i think yeah just songs affect people yeah just songs affect people yeah just songs affect people for real yeah and like as i've grown up for real yeah and like as i've grown up for real yeah and like as i've grown up i've kind of like started to realize i've kind of like started to realize i've kind of like started to realize that more that more that more and how it's affecting my life my and how it's affecting my life my and how it's affecting my life my relationships yeah relationships yeah relationships yeah so uh so uh so uh i want to choose my words i want to choose my words i want to choose my words more wisely right but to your point more wisely right but to your point more wisely right but to your point also with the feeling like some of it's also with the feeling like some of it's also with the feeling like some of it's just a feeling like just a feeling like just a feeling like you know when i'm not thinking about it you know when i'm not thinking about it you know when i'm not thinking about it i'm just like i'm just like i'm just like that like yeah yeah filling it out and that like yeah yeah filling it out and that like yeah yeah filling it out and like you know i'm such like a melodic like you know i'm such like a melodic like you know i'm such like a melodic driven person yeah so driven person yeah so driven person yeah so um sorry i'm going all over the place um sorry i'm going all over the place um sorry i'm going all over the place but no no i i think this is very but no no i i think this is very but no no i i think this is very interesting but most inspired that's it interesting but most inspired that's it interesting but most inspired that's it i don't know i mean honestly i don't know i mean honestly i don't know i mean honestly like like like kind of annoying to say but like kind of annoying to say but like kind of annoying to say but like like if i like smoke weed like if i like smoke weed like if i like smoke weed oh i i love that like it definitely oh i i love that like it definitely oh i i love that like it definitely it definitely makes me it definitely makes me it definitely makes me like feel like a kid and feel like i like feel like i like feel like i just want to grab my guitar and just just want to grab my guitar and just just want to grab my guitar and just start like absolutely like playing start like absolutely like playing start like absolutely like playing there's um this tyler the creator quote there's um this tyler the creator quote there's um this tyler the creator quote there he says create like a child edit there he says create like a child edit there he says create like a child edit like a scientist yeah like a scientist yeah like a scientist yeah and i like that's so true and i think and i like that's so true and i think and i like that's so true and i think that there is that there is that there is like real value to separating this like real value to separating this like real value to separating this creation time from like creation time from like creation time from like optimization time or producing or optimization time or producing or optimization time or producing or getting it right in your mind you know getting it right in your mind you know getting it right in your mind you know what i mean what i mean what i mean um but it's a hard thing to do you know um but it's a hard thing to do you know um but it's a hard thing to do you know very hard to self edit yeah do you do it very hard to self edit yeah do you do it very hard to self edit yeah do you do it um or did you ever yes yeah yeah for um or did you ever yes yeah yeah for um or did you ever yes yeah yeah for this for sure this for sure this for sure um that is something i have learned to um that is something i have learned to um that is something i have learned to delegate in the past six months yeah delegate in the past six months yeah yeah um the sort of like research of yeah um the sort of like research of yeah um the sort of like research of this show i do myself and will always do this show i do myself and will always do this show i do myself and will always do myself sure sure because i think that myself sure sure because i think that myself sure sure because i think that that is that is that is the soul of it at least for me i don't the soul of it at least for me i don't the soul of it at least for me i don't know like i i want i'd love to like know like i i want i'd love to like know like i i want i'd love to like watch the interactions and things you've watch the interactions and things you've watch the interactions and things you've done with other people yeah to be like done with other people yeah to be like done with other people yeah to be like know what makes people type you know know what makes people type you know know what makes people type you know what i mean for sure yeah um and i think what i mean for sure yeah um and i think what i mean for sure yeah um and i think that human element is very important to that human element is very important to that human element is very important to me like i wouldn't be able to do it me like i wouldn't be able to do it me like i wouldn't be able to do it otherwise but otherwise but otherwise but um yeah that is separating the editing um yeah that is separating the editing um yeah that is separating the editing and and creating but editing it yeah and and creating but editing it yeah and and creating but editing it yeah going back and and doing something i've going back and and doing something i've going back and and doing something i've i've always had trouble doing that like i've always had trouble doing that like i've always had trouble doing that like yeah yeah like um yeah yeah like um yeah yeah like um like editing lyrics and stuff interesting like editing lyrics and stuff interesting like editing lyrics and stuff interesting but um but um but um but i'm happy i've had you know dudes but i'm happy i've had you know dudes but i'm happy i've had you know dudes around me in the mirror to be like around me in the mirror to be like around me in the mirror to be like i need to look at that again oh yeah i need to look at that again oh yeah i need to look at that again oh yeah and that is part of it like hold on and that is part of it like hold on and that is part of it like hold on you can do better though i'm like okay Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. I think that's an essential thing to a team. Like, I think it could be that sentence to have too many people around you to say yes all the time. Yeah. I've never had that. I'm just not, I, I, I hate it, but I care too much what people think, especially the people that I love. Yeah. Like I really want them to feel like you're good. Everybody's good. Okay, cool. You know? Yeah. So what do you feel about writing and making ultrasound that felt the most different from all your other work? You know, we took five, pretty much years, about five years away from each other. I mean, still saw each other, but weren't in the room, like making stuff. And everybody kind of went through their own version of bullshit and life and just some rough stuff that was happening within our own personal lives. So coming together was like, it really felt like we needed each other. Like it just felt really like return to home. Yeah. You know, it felt like we were supporting each other just by hanging out. Yeah. And like making stuff. And I feel like we're all really just loving towards each other and a lot of great conversations, a lot of great laughs. But so much of it was, like I said, like a return to form, a return to home. We did the record primarily with one of the producers who did Wiped Out, our second record. John Odor did this record with us. And it just felt really reminiscent and cozy. And I think that's for sure where I wanted to, how I wanted to make this one was just like, okay, let's just like get back to where, like where we're trying to feel cozy and like see what happens there. It's funny because it's already inspiring. Like that experience and coming back has already inspired like, oh, okay, so the next one, blah, blah, blah. You know, but yeah, it just felt very, I think we all just feel really lucky to like, to get to do it. And at this level and at this time, like, you know, as long, as long as we've been doing it and to take so much time off and to like, kind of get so much bigger on that time. I was going to ask, but it's been like, it's so, it's so cool, man. Yeah. It's like a, one, I mean, the idea of going from like pretty much seven consecutive years of like everything together, right? You are first album, to you're on the tour bus together. You're making music together, like your entire lives, your careers are intertwined. Living with each other. Yeah. And then to go from that, to complete five-year hiatus, watch the music, find an entirely new audience of people, which is so, so cool and beautiful of like the way that TikTok has contributed to like young people discovering catalog. And then to now like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. It's just such a journey. Oh, it's, it's been so cool. It's been so cool. Yeah. I mean, what can I even say? It's just like, I just feel the infinitely grateful. Yeah. Yeah. It's just cool. It's like, it feels like it feels like it's a whole new experience. And I think like when an experience just gets kind of stagnant, it's, I think even if it's a really, a really great job or a really great opportunity that, that you might have, it could just get kind of, you know, I don't want to say boring because it wasn't that it was boring, but it's just like, you know, again, we're living in, in this era on the internet and in a, in a world where everything has turned into entertainment. So we're all competing. Yeah. For attention. It's terrifying. A hundred percent. Yeah. And then to somehow make it through the other side. Well, it's weird because like I was doing so much for so long and like, just like grinding and do so. So fired up about it at all times. And then putting the, like pushing the brakes and like stopping it. And then watching it Excel has been a really interesting, like life lesson for me. And also feels like a lot of the work has like paid off, but it's like, kind of a delay, a delayed joy that. Yeah. A delayed reaction. And, but it's nice. Cause it kind of just like puts me at ease for what hopefully the, the future can be like. And, you know, I feel lucky to be able to like do things at our own pace and, and, and get away with it. Yeah. And I also think developing perspective in life is just necessary. Yeah. Like you're, of course, something's going to feel, you know, not as exciting ever. You've done it nonstop for seven years and being away from it for five years, I think makes you remember why you appreciated it in the first place and why it was so significant to you. Yeah. Yeah. And even I think you were at least as a solo artist in that time, like that changed the way that it felt to go back to making music with the band. Yeah. I mean, I've always kind of done that, but, but this time around definitely felt, felt different. And even like doing, yeah, like I did like a small solo tour, uh, last year, two years ago, 2024. And, um, the Lemonade has spent decades keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows. Their lemon agenda has infiltrated everything. Even our music that hits on named after the color of lemons, not a coincidence. Big lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years. Think about it. But now seven up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda. Now, lime comes first seven up flip the sip. First, the air, then the light and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall. Your way at Ross. Yeah, it, I like, I miss, I miss my guys a lot. It was, it was cool. I was like, you know, I, you know, I was, I was proud of myself for doing it, but, um, but it definitely felt like, you know, talk about listening back to your own music. I, I would definitely listen back to neighborhood stuff and be like, Oh, there's something, there is something special when, when we get together. Like, you know, it makes me view myself. Um, and in a way that, you know, it's so easy to be down on yourself. Yeah. I feel like it, it makes me look at myself in a way that I'm like, I need to like that version of that guy. That's cool. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, like more specific questions about this album. Yeah. I mean, the first thing I noticed, I guess just reading the track list even, and then obviously listening to it, like, you know, the last one, the album is called stupid boy. One of your biggest songs, it's called pretty boy. Was there, was that intentional? Is there a connection between the two? Unfortunately, no, just for running. Just no, no, it's just, uh, just the line I wrote really. And I was like, Oh, that'd be a good title. Yeah. And then probably once it was titled, then I was like, then, then yeah, I was probably like, Ooh, stupid boy, pretty boy. Yeah. At that point it was, but it wasn't like when I was writing and I wasn't writing about it. You weren't like thinking about the song. No, no, but cause there's like, and then there's like mama drama on there, which is like, daddy is too. Yeah. It's like, nice to kind of continue the, the theme. I'm just like, I'm a corny like dad joke guy like that. I know. I love it. And things like that are also fun for like consumers of the thing. Cause it's like, if you know, you know, you know what I mean? You get that I'm making a silly little joke about my own work. And if you don't know that, that's fine. It's not for you for sure. And I think that's like a, a cool thing to experience as a fan, even, you know what I mean? You know, like I suppose you did there. It's that world building, like you said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Um, are you, what are you most excited to like perform from this record? Uh, hula girl is really fun. Private's fun. Uh, shucks. What else? I mean, honestly, we've, we've been, we've been jamming all of them. I don't think we're going to play them all on tour, but yeah, it's always, it's always fun. Like learning the new songs and playing them. Um, well then what song do you enjoy performing those just in general on tour? I think it changes every night. I it's just like a mood thing for me. I'm so really, yeah. It's just like, if, if it depends on, it depends on the night, but, uh, there's not really one that I always, oh man, I don't know. Devil's advocate's fun. Uh, what else? I mean, there's no right or wrong answer. Softcore is sick. Like, yeah. Yeah. And it's all perfect. It's like one of the songs that feels most different, I think from your others, yeah, I'd say so. It's definitely on the more like electronic. Yeah. End of thing. And I think this album taught tapped into that a lot. You think so? There's definitely moments of it that I felt. Okay. You don't think, I mean, I was listening to love bomb on the way here. Okay. And I feel like that, like has that sort of, there's a bit of like distortion in it and sort of vocal, I guess it's sound is what I'm thinking of. Yeah. That one gets pretty auto-tuned. Um, yeah, there's moments of it for sure. I, uh, yeah, it's always interesting for, to hear how like someone else is interpreting something cause it's totally different than how I, you know what I mean? Like to me, so much of this album is like, like wiped out ish and, and cause it's like live drums pretty much most of the time, but then there's a couple moments like planet planets dope and that one's like a more synthetic that kind of lean more towards what you're saying. But Hey, as long as like anybody could find us through lines, just with any event down enough for whatever is happening now in the tests. And I think that's cool. I mean, and I think it's the eternally interesting thing about music. Cause the, everybody first sees it in a completely different way yeah you know it's funny like even earlier in this conversation when you were you were talking about um like writing songs about relationships yeah with people and how you were like listening to it and thinking about those relationships and like it's so interesting because the viewer doesn't know that relationship at all correct so like what you are so deeply thinking about and focusing on um what the viewer is experiencing is like what when have i been in a similar circuit search when have i been in a similar situation as what you're talking about now yeah do you know what i mean i mean i i i would like to think that but it does get tricky when when your life is is public in any capacity because i know if i was a listener you know listening to something i'm thinking like all right so i know what just happened in your life that means that these songs are probably about that right yeah and the reality of it is like if things don't always work um like in a linear fashion that way right there's songs there's a song on the deluxe album that we're about to put out that i wrote like years ago well that has nothing to do with anything that's happening right now right but it's just you know all the boys liked it and it just was a good sound so i was like all right let's write and it yeah and it's not like so specific to where you can't it's i also try to write pretty broad i guess you know well do you feel like that magnifying glass into your life makes it harder to write sometimes uh yeah that's kind of what i was saying earlier i'm i'm learning how to navigate that interesting because i'm also a fan so i understand the perspective of like if i if i was a fan being like yeah this motherfucker better say something about to say some shit right but i'm a human being and right the interactions that i have with other people they're also human beings and it's like you know it's it's it's uh i've been on i've been on both sides of it now interesting i've been on the the receiving end of of of of a song also and i know how that could it can affect one yeah yeah positively and negatively but right but you know that's just kind of part of the job i guess that is part of the job and again it's it's your own kind of diary is part of being an artist you know what i mean like it is i want to hear artists do that so you know the from the fan yeah like you should but it's just like figuring out how to but but that that feels right it's like i get this amazing job this amazing opportunity that you know i should be able to know how to put my words together in a way that are is that that that say exactly what i want to say even you know and sometimes that might be uh like i said earlier like i i usually i could end up blaming myself so it's so it's like it's hard for me to just be like fuck you it's like fuck me damn it yeah yeah well i mean i also think back to that yeah and there's no i mean i i understand i think i very much feel that way as well like it's i always like to think about the things in life i can control and you can always control you for better or worse you know what i mean so that is i think part of being human you know what i mean but um i would see like what i was you know really like curious about and with sort of like the things actually let me take this in a different in a different direction okay i want to um ask you a specific question kind of something that we talked about earlier about uh kind of this idea of artistry versus virality do you feel in this new era of music that there is more pressure on virality than there is on artistry like sort of like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like storytelling and world building i just think they're kind of synonymous i i interesting i think they're pretty it's just like we're we've we're evolving you know whether you like it or not that's just it's kind of part of it yeah i i the way i look at it you know i i yeah i think you just kind of got to be able to do all things at the same time well how do you approach things like music videos and things differently then oh uh yeah that's tricky because it's like no one cares about music videos anymore no one watches no one listens to full album i disagree but you know what i'm saying yeah yeah i always hear it's like people say that but there's but also we live in a world now where there's like an audience for everything at all times yeah there's music video obsessed people that there's probably more music video obsessed people than there ever was in history we just don't know it because there's not people talking about it as loudly as the people that are talking about how they're dead or whatever you know what i mean music videos are dead i just really don't know what i'm talking about i don't know what i'm talking about i don't really think you have to do what you like interesting like you have to really just like believe in the thing that you believe in and think that that's what's what it's going to be worth and then uh kind of you know shake your ass for it straight up like when it comes down to it like how you promote it or you have to like believe in it for a long amount of time yeah you know um if you want an immediate reaction which even then you're not guaranteed that right no never and i that is also what has been like when we're talking about this industry perspective of people not liking music videos is because when they think of like the golden era of music video it was like there was one distribution channel sure right like you're you made your music video it went on ntv and like that was how people discovered this all yeah time and now it's like there's youtube there's somebody watching a podcast like this there's a clip of the music video that goes to this tiktok or whatever right like there's more faucets into the bucket of like how people discover you right there's a clip of the music video that goes to this tiktok or whatever right like there's more than there ever has been um but because it's not just this one massive channel thing it's very easy to discredit any of the other things pouring into that bucket it's true but there's always exceptions and i feel like there's always when when everybody's going left someone goes right yeah if you're if your timing's right and you're the you're the the right person to to do that then it really works out in your favor you know uh yeah i think that's when you really have breakthrough artists and and and personalities and moments yeah that are able to to figure out their own like you got to add something to the to the conversation you have to add something to the to the menu you know you can't just have the same version you know how many smash burgers do we need you actually need to like add something else in there there was some pick that's straight up that feels like refreshing right uh and i think it could be found in in all sorts of ways long form short form you know i'm i'm pretty like i'm more in to uh not more into but like i grew up with like bad internet so so so music videos to me are still like well it's not gonna load like i'm still like which is bullshit like i have plenty of great wi-fi now that let's all let me talk to me videos but i i think sometimes it's just like what you're used to or like yeah you know i also like i'm a big interview person so like that's why doing something like this is cool because like i like podcasts i like interviews like sometimes i like that more than music or more than oh my god yeah and i think that's so important to understand like the the human being behind the thing that you're listening to like it just makes it those apple yeah yes exactly and exactly what you said earlier talking about like having your sauce like i think so much of that is having a story and a narrative you know what i mean like um this was so example like the perfect example of this to me two years ago was like a chaperone type look you know what i mean where it was like not just that she had great music but it was also there was these videos of her performing in a park by her herself right and there was no one there and it became so you wanted to see her win because there was this sort of like well i can see how hard you've worked for this yeah then people started destroying her just as quickly it's it really is so exhausting but sorry i diverted no no no i think that that was such a good take and i was i was not even gonna say that but you're so right do you think that that it's just all you know is the rubber band i just think people just think it's all just like it we we it's too scary to take anything seriously nowadays because what are you gonna do about it yeah that is really what does it fucking matter and terrifying and also i feel like people when there are so many other things in life on the air outside of their control they feel more compelled to like yell at this one thing that they feel like somebody's gonna listen to for sure and we all just want community everybody you know it's like you know it community is the comment section for a lot of people i get it it's jokes i mean it's like you know it's not it's not my i'm not gonna go i'm not gonna that's not my that's not necessarily always the community i'm trying to be a part of but right i i understand that it's just the reach for connection and you know it's evolution like we're you know we're we're evolving and the technology and us are are are you know kind of really um integrating and that this is maybe a few more ways than we need it to yeah i mean it's true but also what do we what am i i don't know what to do about i agree you know i agree and if anything it's yeah it's it is scary for sure but it's like but i also want to be able to uh participate and feel like um yeah i'm i'm not just like mad right all the time about it about the way things are going because it's just so it's so easy to be everyone in pain speaking of this idea of community and like things that you're seeing i'm going to ask like have there been any other artists that are inspiring you right now to create oh i'm sure uh or just who's what's on the rotation of albums for you right now i'm just discovering all the these rappers from new york that i'm obsessed with and i know i'm super late but 41 it's fucking unbelievable this song poochie is just like i cannot stop playing it i'm addicted to it uh and then let's see yeah there's this zeddy will leila or lila she's amazing uh uh max b he just got out of jail and i was late to that i'm like yeah it was fire stevie wonder new asap rocky yeah uh what else freaking crush your soul it's like a hardcore band from i think they're from buffalo uh you have a very wide taste yeah i mean i like it uh this is not what i would have expected from you i mean i mean kaylon with that folded joint is like oh my god and then a guy i've been going back and listening to you know older stuff for the i've missed uh yeah i mean that's another thing too like things have oh robin l she's dope um do you feel like listening to other people makes it easier sunshine and trim that trump the bill songs fire i mean all the all the shit they're doing is dope uh sorry what you said when you asked no no you're okay i love the answers um i was gonna say do you feel like listening to other people's music makes it easier or harder create the lemonati has spent decades keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows their lemon agenda has infiltrated everything even our music that hit song named after the color of lemons not a coincidence big lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years think about it but now seven up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda now lime comes first seven up flip the sip you're welcome fall never arrives all at once first the air then the light and slowly the things you love begin to find each other a jacket meets a dress a hoodie slips beneath a blazer an old cap finds a new scarf because you don't simply step into the season you create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall find fall your way at ross um easier well easier easier yeah yeah because especially because like a lot of the things that i'm i'm probably more i gravitate towards more aren't really the genre that i'm making yeah so that kind of makes it like i kind of get away with shit in that way because like i'm pulling from things that from what i can tell none of my contemporaries or whatever i mean i don't even know what to call it but i'm pulling from things that i'm probably more gravitate towards more aren't really the neighborhood though you know alternative i mean that feels like a true i guess yeah i also think this entire concept of genres is like slowly dissolving it has been for a long you know we've been having these conversations for a very long time yeah like i've been older than you but like it's been the conversation about like bands don't exist anymore but there always is and now we have geese like in the lead like that's always an example of of something that that's happening it's just like maybe you know few and far between that are and and i think it's just like pendulum or culture swings like a pendulum yeah you don't need the second something becomes uh so saturated it becomes uncool and then there's none of them and then because there's none of them one blows up you know what i mean like i was already telling this one of my friends about like cat's eye you know like to me i'm like it's like when was the last time we had a girl group like it's just and to so much to a teenager now it's their first one yeah you know what i mean it was just like a crazy thing to think about yeah um and that's just how culture moves and i i think a lot of the greatest artists are people who are good at like reading that yeah you know what i mean of like what what is this unoccupied space for a moment and how can i feel inspired by that even if it's something completely outside of my genre yeah you know what i mean um yeah this wave is happening but the next one's coming yeah you know exactly and it's always in motion too like there it is liquid it is literally you can't capture it always all the time it's just anticipating how it's gonna flow yeah um but there's always one question i love to end the show with okay um if you to all sit with like one song like i want this is the song i want you to listen to the lyrics of right like i something that you really want people to have a moment with from this record could be from the deluxe if you want oh it has to be one of my songs or one of our songs yes oh okay you can give me two you can give me one of yours and one of someone else's uh well i think frank ocean we all try as as maybe my favorite song i've ever heard in my life really why you know what yeah yeah i just think it's perfect really it's just so to the point and it and it's just beautiful i know god like we need him back i mean it's so like yeah i i wouldn't be mad at it we're not sorry man pretty he's his whole his i mean he's just fire i don't you know let let him do what he does but uh uh one song from the album i think you should listen to it could also be one that you felt like you had to say with a lot to get out well i mean hula girl is the one for me yeah yeah why is that well yeah it just took me a while to to like get the words right and and you know make a song that um i think being uh for me like being the singer of the band i want to um i want to be able to represent everybody's experience yeah yeah that's that's that's up there with me all my friends all the all the boys in the band and um i think that one i was really able to like to to capture a feeling that we were all feeling and i i think it happened throughout the record as well there's some on the deluxe there's one on the deluxe uh called lulu that specifically like the end of the song was from a very direct experience that i had and i hate being so vague about it i do it's better if i do you know um yeah um yeah but but hula girl really is one for me that like it really helped me process the past couple years and um whenever i sing that song or or hear that song it definitely like it's made me it's made it makes me pretty emotional yeah um yeah no that's okay that's it i don't know you can hear sometimes it's hard to get it out also it's kind of the nature of the question right well it's also part of like yeah you know i'm not you know i should probably read more i didn't go to college i should probably uh uh i'm not the most highly educated fella but and and i'm i'm also the one that's responsible with the words that's always kind of funny but you know it it just like feels really fulfilling for me to get something out that was like harder for me to like right you know because some things are a bit easier you could just kind of like they're more of a vibe like the lyrics and everything can be more vague and right whatever but for me it's like trying to keep that universal listener listener experience but while while still saying something that's like like if i told you like oh it's about this you go oh it is about that i'm going to think about the lyrics totally differently thank you yeah that one was like that one was a a very important one for for me to have to write after after i wrote that one the lyrics for that one you know uh we're probably a bit more than halfway through the album process uh after writing that one it was like oh okay i did the thing that i said even if it was just that one moment it gave birth yeah and you're it was like that but jesse thank you so much for coming man this was like such a really a pleasure and everybody go stream ultrasound what are you doing save it on spotify if only it was pinned on at the comment section right now you could you wouldn't even have to like open your phone you could just click it wait what'd you say is that the link is pinned in the comment exactly yeah just go to click on it man are you crazy yeah well thank you thank you so much and i'll see y'all next week bye see you next week just kidding coca-cola for the big for the small the short and the tall peacemakers risk takers for the optimist pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new coca-cola for everyone pick up some coca-cola at a store near you fall never arrives all at once first the air then the light and slowly the things you love begin to find each other a jacket meets a dress a hoodie slips beneath a blazer an old cap finds a new scarf because you don't simply step into the season you create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall find fall your way at ross