The unmasking of the once-anonymous Ghost

It's been a dramatic year in Canadian politics, from Justin Trudeau's resignation to Mark Carney's hunt for a liberal majority by getting conservatives to cross the floor. Pierre Paulier faces doubts about his future as conservative leader as soaring polls and certain victory ended in electoral defeat. Through it all, CBC's power in politics is bringing you daily podcast updates on all the political drama. So join me, David Cochran, every weekday, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Garvia Bailey. A pretty cool thing happened on the Billboard album charts last year. In April, for the first time in half a decade, a metal album went number one. The last time that happened, it was AC/DC's album "Power Up" and that landed on the top of the charts. Now the record that finally broke that record is this one. That's the song "Satanize" by the Swedish band Ghosts from their latest album "Skeleta". That album hit the top of the charts and reached number one in dozens of countries around the world and number two here in Canada. It also just picked up a Grammy nomination. This was a major coming out party for a band that metal fans have known for well over a decade. Now a whole new audience from around the world is finding out about their music and their very curious history. For a long time, nobody knew who was in the band Ghost and they were meticulous about never letting the secret come out. But eventually, you know how Ghosts secrets do come out and it was revealed that all those vocals and theatrics were done by our guests, the frontman, to bias forge. Ghosts just came off a massive worldwide tour and this month they're heading out on the second leg of Skeletor with stops in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. Tom got a chance to sit down with Tobias to talk all about Ghosts being anonymous, hitting the top of the Billboard charts all the while singing pop metal songs about Satan. Skeleta is out everywhere now and here's Tom Powers' conversation with Tobias Forge of Ghosts. How are you? Thanks for being here. Thank you. I'm well. How are you? I'm well. Thanks for asking. It's very exciting for me. I've been a big fan of the band. I think I saw you for the first time when you played on Stephen Colbert on the late show on Halloween. Maybe they're Halloween episode. I want to say that was over a decade ago. Yeah. Yeah. It must have been 2015. I believe. Yeah. We played 3. So it must have been about a decade ago, exactly. Performing the song "Series" from the album "Melliora" Ghost. It felt like a secret when I found out about you. I was like texting my friends and I was telling my friends about them and you know turning my friends who are on the metal and those who weren't on the metal on to you. And now it's really amazing to see what's happened. It's really been amazing to see, like I mentioned, the big number one record. By the way, where were you when you found out about the number one album and what was happening around you when you find out? I was in Italy. We were just about to play and it was pretty anti-clamatic in so many way climatic because sometimes you, I don't know what I expected, if at all, if it ever were to happen, you thought it was more like a reveal surprise and you know, it came in form of a text. Album is number one. All right. Cool. And then it sort of dawns on you that, okay, so that just happened, that's cool. And I was, you know, I was just made up to go on stage within five minutes, like I have to go. And I'm a fairly easily, I'm a fairly sentimental, sentimental, and you know, I tear up a lot. I, when I watch anything that's, you know, love on the spectrum of, you know, it's like, I can't watch anything without tearing up cats, whatever on social media, if I were ever to look, I most likely go over something and so this was one of those moments where I'm like, because it kind of screw up my whole thing. Because you're making it. It's going to start running and you're not going to be able to, yeah, yeah, right. So it was one of those moments, it was sort of impractical, but very cool, of course, pretty much lifelong dream of achieving that, which I felt over decades, it felt like, you know, something that would never happen and then all of a sudden it does. And fantastic. I want to, I want to sort of build up to that moment and I want to talk about the origins of the band. So I want to go way back and play this song. Tobias, can you tell me a little bit of what, what that song is, what the band is and why you think we might be playing it for you? Was Motley Crew shout out, shout out the devil. One of the first records that I had and loved, one of my first idols, I was blessed with an older brother. I was born 1981, so he was born 1968, so he was obviously teenager when I was little, which was a big gift, you know, a big luxury, I was very, in so many ways, it was a privilege to have that sort of stream of culture and teenage culture in my life and a very, very, very nice mom who was also very open and when I think about my childhood and life and memories from that time, most of them have to do with my brother. If it's not my brother, it's always like his friends or girlfriend, those girls and or it was the company and most of them are sort of in tandem with music, TV, film, like VHS, like whatever they were doing, I was sort of like, I was tagging onto and that year, I know that I know that that writer came out in 1983, but it's the big year for me that I think I can sort of go back to where my consciousness of culture is, is 1984. Sometimes I'm three years old and the coolest thing on the planet is like Motley Crew, Twisted Sister, Wasp and Kiss. Is there something you think grabbed you about the devilness of it? Something exciting about the idea of shout out the devil? Just given the music ended up making. It's hard not to see through lie, right? I guess that if you look at what Wasp, Motley Crew and Twisted Sister and Kiss, but definitely with the first three bands there were in 1984, you look at them and you look at their expression and what they look like and what they represented. I mean, it's pretty close to what a three-year-old would say, "I want a rock, it looks that kill, I wonder, I don't remember how much I understood, I understood I want a rock, we're not going to take, but I learned so much as well, like I'm now talking like linguistically in terms of obviously English not being my mother's tongue here, but you know, I was asking all the time, what does this mean? What does this mean? What is hurricane? A lot rock, you like a hurricane, okay, you know, I learned so much by listening, looks that kill, what does that mean? And you know, I had a very educational family who sort of told me what the lyrics were about or what it said. What do they tell you about shout out the devil? I actually do not remember. I know that there's this little detail in the title that's kind of weird, that I definitely picked up on later, shout out the devil? What? Shout with the devil. God damn it. Let's build towards it. I want to play another piece of music right now, this one is yours. That is ghost and stand by him, to be honest, as I understand that you were playing music for a long time, you were playing in bands, you were growling, you were playing guitar, you're playing a lot of different instruments. Then you write that song, and this is where I need you to help me out. Something happens with that song, and I'm just trying to connect the dots here, you go, oh, that has to be released by ghost, or like that has to be different than everything else I've done. That song needs to come out in its own unique way, different than the other stuff I've done. Am I on to something there? Yes. In 2006, I had, I was in a sort of a musical twilight zone because I had my teenage high school band, Repugnant, which was a death metal band. That was laid to rest at the time, we sort of just farted out, it sort of never went anywhere and we had a record that never came out or at that time, it hadn't come out yet. And it would, presumably, come out later that year, I think. But the band was, that was non-existent, and I was sort of trying to find my way playing some obscure kind of pop rock music. The story goes, I had no recording equipment at home and I went to my friend who was the bass player, had been the bass player of Subvision, had also been the bass player in Repugnant. And I went to his home and I just said, look, because he had a studio at home. Can I just borrow you for a few hours? I just want to record something. And we did it, we did very, very quick sort of rudimentary demo. And I sort of whispered the lyrics into it at the time, it was called "Soft, I was not," which mean the night of Satan as in "Nocturnal Night." But it was that song, yeah, but that was the song that sort of kicked it off, kicked off that whole creative process. So why then when the songs start coming and the band, because none of the other bands were like this, and so none of your older bands like this, I don't think, why when the bands, when the music songs started coming and the band really started, ghost really started, why did you want to be unknown? I vaguely remember, I don't know if this was the first conversation that we had, but I remember in 2008 when we were recording, that we had that conversation me and Gustav, the Gus, the guy, the other my friend, about this is not like a normal band, this is not like your conventional T-shirt band, okay, so what is that? I want us to play live, I want us to do something, but I want it to be different, I don't want us to be like some, you know, no offense to a lot of other bands that are like that, but just like another song rock band playing at a pub, you know, with leather jackets. I wanted us, what I saw the music was different, we just sounded different, I wanted it to have like a bigger, more, I don't know, theatrical, be more of like a, yeah, closer to the experiences that I had when I was in high school, you know, I went to aesthetics and we were sort of putting on musicals in school and I wanted to meet more like that, more like theater and, so that was my outlook on it for years, like I wanted us to be like a, more like an installation band, like an installation artist, if you will, like more like what I, how I would proceed like damn on the galas, she would not play a club, she would play like the concert hall, even though it's also 800 people, so it's not bigger, but she plays in a more cultural presentation, she would play a cultural festival, not like a metal festival, and so that was what I, what I saw in my head, and then it sort of ruined it, if we were our names on it, and it was going to be, yeah, that's going to detract from the image, and literally like the image, what I see, and what I hear. I'm Garvey Bailey, and for Tom Power, more of Tom's conversation with Tobias Forge is coming up, but first, we have another conversation up to date on our podcast speed, it's with actor El Fanning. Her latest film is called Sentimental Value, and there isn't a ton out there about El's life, so you're going to hear a very revealing conversation, especially about her early days. The conversation with El Fanning is up now on the podcast speed, more with Tobias Forge right after this. It's been said that being neighbors with America is like sleeping with an elephant, one gets affected by every twitch and grunt. Well, these days there's a lot more than twitches and grunts in dealing with the US. I'm Paul Hunter, and I'm Katie Simpson. We're reporters here in Washington, and every Wednesday will bring you a smart conversation to help you make sense of how American politics are affecting Canada. Our new podcast is called Two Blocks from the White House, Find and Follow Now, wherever you get your podcasts, including YouTube. I'm Garbi Bailey sitting in for Tom Power. The song that you're hearing right now is Ghost with their song He Is, and you're in the middle of Tom's conversation with the founder, singer, and songwriter of Ghost, Sweden's Tobias Forge. It might be hard to believe, but what he's saying there is true. For many years, the members of Ghosts were a total mystery. They were even rumors that musicians like Dave Grohl played in the band, but as they got more popular, being anonymous got more difficult. And that's where this conversation picks up. Tom asked Tobias what the hardest part of being anonymous in a successful band was. The hardest thing was because we were touring band that wanted to grow because that defies the rule. If you want to remain unknown, it's better if you don't play in a band and tour. Yeah. So yeah, you're better off being in a studio and never leaving. You were a touring band. The best thing, my best recommendation if you want to be in a really cool band is never to start. 100% credible. No one, zero people listen to your band because it does not exist. Yeah, it was hard to balance the balancing act of taking this art project and turning it into like an ambitious project that was that sort of wasn't ambitious beyond just the art aspects of it. Because all of a sudden there was an interest that I had never had in any of my other bands. And real risk with that interest. I mean, what I'm curious about is like, I'm curious about the practicality of it. How do you hide the anonymity? Are you wearing hoods when you go into the venue? Are the practical things you had to do back then to try and not let the mystery out? We tried all of that in another impracticality of whatever ambitions that I had of creating, of sort of maintaining a certain art element of what I had set out to do was the fact that I had other people in the band who really wanted to be known. Yeah. They badly wanted to show that they were in the band. They really wanted to be recognized. Yeah. And went out of their way to do that. And that has always been a problem seems like a big word, but yeah, that has always been a compromising a compromise, if you will, that was, you know, slightly, um, gaining, you know, the original idea of what I set out to do. When the curtain goes down and it is, it is, and I won't get into the details of it, but when the curtain goes down and it is revealed that you are you and the anonymity goes away, what's the emotion there to bias? Is it frustration? Is it relief? Is it, what is it? It's for us that the idea of trying to maintain anonymity and going to lengths to do so. From that angle, it was a relief because then all of a sudden I was like, okay, that then I also knew that even at the time 10, 10 years now ago, we were a ghost as a logotype, as a the picture of what the band was like artistically was going to be bigger than, than I am. Yeah. Um, and, um, so I, I didn't, I didn't worry that, you know, of course, there might, there might be a person here or there that, you know, as soon as they see that, you know, the person behind the band is not like a, you know, 6.3 viking with, you know, a big beard. They might not find that hot enough and decide to walk. Just to live with that. Just to be clear, it actually got bigger. The band got bigger in terms of album sales and in terms of tickets after the anonymity went away. I don't know if that's related, but it did happen. I don't know if it just coincided with us, you know, making, I don't want to say better records, but bigger records. Yeah. We had more success and, um, what I mean is that it didn't hurt you. It didn't hold you back, you know. It did not. No. Then you, the band just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. More and more people come onto the band, then accolades start pouring in. And then I saw this year, you performed in character for one of the biggest rock bands of all time. Take a listen to this. That is Tobias forging character performing Bohemian Rhapsody for the surviving members of Queen at the Polar Music Prize in Sweden. I would love to know what it's like to sing that song for the band, sing that song for Queen. Hard. Hard. It's a hard song to sing anyway. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those where, I mean, now we've done a few of the ones that you shouldn't do. And, uh, the one song that you don't want to do, because it's already, it's one of the most songs, most played songs, most well-known songs, everybody knows it, everybody can come along to it. God damn, I don't want to, I wouldn't do that. Yeah. I wouldn't play that song out of all. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm a, I'm a good singer in my band, but like, I'm not like, I'm not Freddie Mercury. You know, Freddie Mercury obviously, but, uh, so it, you know, answer your question is it was a lot to think about. Remember everything. Not, not necessarily the words, but yeah, well, words. Funnily enough, I don't know how many times I've sung along with that song. It's always things that you're like, yeah, you kind of mumble your words. I get that. Yeah. I did not know that. I mean, it's, it's an amazing honor, uh, for the band. Just in the, in a couple of minutes, we have left here. Um, we're going to go out on, you know, um, we're going to go out on an older song. We're going to go out on Square Hammer. Uh, the producer of this piece, Mitch and I were talking about how this is the song we send to people when we're like, hey, you, you know, you should check out this band. You should check out this band goes. This would be the song we would send to people a lot. I also point out that are the producer of this piece, uh, Mitch, his, his five-year-old son became a gigantic ghost fan this year and he said it saved his, it saved his music streaming because, you know, he and his son got to listen to the same music all year and it was really, really good. Um, what I want to know is, why do you think this song is connected with so many people and what, this is the song you end the show with? What do you notice from the stage? When, when this is the song you sing at the end of that, what, what, what do you notice about you see? Uh, I mean, it has a, a, a great, this confrontative, um, element of it that, uh, that sums up where I want people to be at that spot in the set. Like, you know, our show is a lot, about a lot of things. I mean, we, we, the lyrics and the concepts are about everything that is to be human in, in a world that is seemingly designed to, to crush us, which is not true, but at times it feels like that. And, and, and one, uh, virtue, I think that we all should, and I'm, I'm also trying, is to enjoy life always as much as I can and to be in the now and, and be here. Um, her default as a dreamer with my head and full of wasps all the time. It's hard to, to do that, but it's really, uh, and, and something that I, I wish to achieve more often and, and sometimes I do, but I really want to spread that to people and, and to be conscious, conscious of, of the, the meaning of, of, of living your life to the fullest and, and, and enjoying, seizing the day. And I think that that, you know, just the phrase right here right now is so, you know, I, I just borrowed it because it's a, it's a, it's a very well-known and, and very used phrase. And it's a rock and song. Cool melody. It's a great song. Um, it's a great song. It's a great band. Thanks for all the music over the years, and, and thanks for the conversation today. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. That's a little bit of square hammer by the band Ghost. Before that, Tom's conversation with the frontman of Ghost Tobias Ford. Ghosts are on tour right now with dates and select Canadian cities. Visit their website for more details. I'm Garvey Bailey. Catch you next time.