The Uncomfortable Biblical TRUTH About the Lindsay Clancy Murders | Live Free with Josh Howerton

- She heard a man's voice commanding her to kill the children and herself because she had no choice. If you're a Christian with a Bible in your lap and eyes in your head, you're going to wait. Wait, just a second, because John Sheperton says that the enemy, he comes to do three things, steal, kill, and destroy. - Well, hey, a live free nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. But the live free nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, "Man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We want to invite you to take a simple next step and that is join us for church online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook and our church online platform and it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat. Prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend and now enjoy the podcast. - Hey, welcome to a kind of heavy and a little spicy bonus episode of live free. We're gonna talk about what's going on with some of the Lindsey Clancy stuff. I'm gonna explain why I'm doing this because everybody's got a million takes on this but I actually want to get to the word and turn this into a short Bible study. I just want to keep saying this. The bonus episodes are a little extra work where I was trying to figure out is the juice worth squeeze. So if this is helpful to you and you're like, hey, keep doing them, especially if you can head over to YouTube and like, comment, share. I'll teach you real straight. When we're trying to figure out if it's worth the extra time and work, the response helps us figure out like, okay, it might be worth it, so that'd be awesome. Okay, without further ado, there is a national conversation happening right now and we need to turn it into a biblical conversation. So if you're unfamiliar with what's happening right now, like literally right now in our country, I'm gonna give you a very short video. This is about 30 seconds set up so that you understand what I'm talking about for the next few minutes. So without further ado, there you go. - Hundreds of people gather outside of Plymouth Superior Court standing in solidarity with Lindsay Clancy. I am Boston 25 news reporter, Ryan Brezzlin. Lindsay Clancy is currently on trial for the murders of her three young children. Her defense says that Clancy was in postpartum psychosis, over-medicated and not criminally responsible for those murders. - So that's what you just saw. So long story short, what you have is you have a mom who very tragically was in postpartum depression on a lot of SSRIs and her defense is pleading insanity for the murder of her three children. It is virtually undisputed. In fact, her defense has admitted multiple times. Yup, she did it. That kind of thing is a lot of conspiracy stuff going around about that. But the claim is, hey, because of the insanity state in which she lapsed, she should not be held responsible for those murders as murders now. Before I talk about this and why I did wanna just do this real quick, there is a data point that is Christians, like we're always looking at this things in the world from the lens of the word. There is a data point that is Christians, we have explanatory power that other people don't. She states multiple times in her defense, like in her written testimony, I'm gonna read it to you, that in her lap state of insanity that before she strangled her three children, she, now listen, if you're a Christian, this is gonna make the hair stand up on the back of your neck. That she heard a man's voice commanding her to kill the children and herself because she had no choice. Bro, if you're a Christian with a Bible in your lap and eyes in your head, you're going to wait, wait, just a second. Because John Shabberton says that the enemy, Satan, who is followed by an army of unholy spirit of the Bible calls demons, that he comes to do three things, steal, kill, and destroy. And I'll shoot you straight. I do not find it totally coincidental that she hears a male voice telling her, hey, you know what you ought to do? Take those three precious innocent kids and yourself and you ought to steal their lives, kill them, and destroy them. I got a category for that. And so should you. Now, before I talk about this, that's actually not the video I'm reacting to. Before I talk about this, let me just explain why I try to do this as a pastor when something like this becomes a national conversation. Now, I'm trying, honestly, I'm trying to disciple you. And what we're supposed to do as Christians is we're not just supposed to look into the word as a mirror, although that should be the primary way we relate to the word. We're also supposed to hold the word up and look through, not just into, but through the word at the world like a lens, so that we end up evaluating the things that we see in the world by the lens of the word of God, okay? So that's why I want to do the next couple of minutes. Now, the reason that I want to react to this short video from it's GB news, it's in Great Britain, where there's a lady, she's an open feminist, I'm gonna talk about that here in a second, what that does and doesn't mean. And she's defending this very vehemently. The reason I want to react to this is honestly, I'm watching how this is becoming like a national conversation. I posted about this on social media platforms day before yesterday. And it was, yeah, I was like three or four million views. And to be honest, a lot of them were just dogpiling. A little bit of what I think is happening. Let me do, let me do 30 second Bible study real quick. There was a time in Israel's history where Israel wandered so far, so fast and in open rebellion against God that the Bible says in the book of judges, quote, listen real close, it says that, quote, "Everyone did what was right in his own eyes." And there was a season when moral degradation had just uttered depravity, just washed over a nation that had previously loved the Lord their God. And then in judges 19 through 21, there's your homework. It's a passage that tells the story of, it's usually titled, "The Rape of the Levitical Concubine." And the nation had gotten so bad that one of the Levites, the priest, A, he had a concubine. That tells you how bad things had gotten in the nation. You got a priest with essentially like a low grade prostitute. And there's a bunch of dudes in a city that come out and they end up raping the priest's concubine. The priest is so abnormally outraged at what has become of the people of Israel that what he does had this a little just, it's a Bible thing, it's a little gross, but just go with me. What he does is he cuts her dead body into pieces and he essentially mails it to every corner of Israel. And there was this one flashpoint moment where one specific story of utter degradation circulated throughout the entire nation. And God used it to shock the nation into waking up and realizing what have we become. And it precipitates a moment of repentance in the nation so that God's judgment doesn't fall in that moment. I'll shoot you really straight. As I'm watching people respond because as you are and are going to see millions of people are siding with the woman who killed the children instead of the children who were killed. And that story is circulating throughout our nation. And there's a little bit of me this watching people hold their hands over their mouths in horror. And it feels like it feels like a judge's 19 moment where people are going, what have we become? And I pray that God uses moments like this to awaken a nation to repentance, to come back to the living God. Now, that said, I want you to see an example of somebody doing exactly what I just described, defending the murderer instead of the innocent murdered, okay? Now, we're gonna stop, start a few times, just go with me. This is GB news, by the way. The dude is a little aggressive here, but there's a little bit of me that's like, I think he's got some warrant. Here you go. - I can't hear you. - Okay, these are man hating women that are standing outside. This is what it's about. They think the husband did it. They're crazy. They've lost their mind. - Do you know why they're waving for murder? - No, I just want to point this out. Did you notice his language? She's saying these are man hating women essentially. And this woman on here is a self-proclaimed, self-described feminist. She comes on as a feminist. And he points out, they're man hating women. We have a feminist right here. And he says, they're waving for a murderer. Now, let me just warn you, this is gonna be a shorter react episode. In the next few minutes, we're gonna talk about feminism and some gender specific things. I'm gonna explain here in a second why that usually does not go very good for a pastor, but heads up. This usually doesn't go great for a pastor. So let me just explain this. What people a lot of times don't realize is that isms and ideologies, they're very frequently, they're just ideological expressions of sins. So we could do a whole episode on this. I'm not doing it right now. Socialism and Communism, that's just the ideological expression of the sin of envy. - That's all that is. - Feminism, by and large, feminism by and large, is essentially, it's the ideological expression of the curse of the fall in Genesis 3/16. I'm gonna quote it. So when sin enters the world, watch. Got it. creates a husband and wife, man and woman, as compliments and supplements, and they're in perfect unity with one another. Then Sin enters the world in Genesis 3.16, how God curses the woman, as he says, "Your desire shall be. " Now, some Bible's translated. You go, "Here's your homework. You will look at it." Some Bible's translated, "Your desire shall be for your husband." Some translations translated, "Your desire shall be against your husband." For three or four different reasons, I think the "against your husband" is a better translation. What the Bible is telling us is that one of the curses of the fall is that it will put enmity between the genders, and that because of sin in the world, it's going to transform things from man and wife to man versus wife. Now, feminism ends up being the ideological expression, in my opinion, of the curse of the fall in Genesis 3.16. The thing you're going to struggle with is your desire is going to be against him. That's what you'll struggle with. That essentially ends up being ideologically expressed in feminism. Now, just real quick, here's why they said this, man hating women, you're waving for a murder. There's a couple of things feminism does. Number one, it trains women to be, quote, "for women." Can I just remind all the godly women who are watching this? "Godly women are not for women. Godly women are for God." And godly women wouldn't be caught dead being, quote, unquote, "for women" if being, quote, "for women" puts them against the living God. We got to remember where our priorities are. We are not advocates for a cause. We are ambassadors of the living God. That's our job, okay? Number two, what you're going to notice, so why is he saying they're waving for a murderer? When ideology becomes an idolatry, you always end up with people advocating for sides instead of advocating for justice, okay? So, a quick example of this and we're going to move on. So back in 2020, back in the, I call them the before days, about like 2015 to 2020, I even fell into this. What you saw is people who like, they were just sort of affected by a critical race theory, whatever you want to call it. They just got so affected. It was the air they breathe, like this little ideology, that any time there was a police shooting, here's what was really interesting. Without any facts, there would be no facts that had come out on a case at all. But everyone would have pre-decided who was in the right and who was in the wrong. Who was the victim and who was the perpetrator? Not based on any facts, but just on the basis of which person had which skin color. Can I shoot you real straight? Maybe super unpopular to say. If you're deciding who was in the right and who was in the wrong based on skin color instead of facts, you are not advocating for justice. You are just openly taking sides. That's what's happening right here, okay? What feminism does, here's what this woman is doing. You're going to see, it's going to come out in the interview here in a second. She doesn't care what the facts are. Feminism doesn't care what the facts are. It's just, I know whose side I'm on based on the gender of the two people involved. And I just want to remind us, godly women do not do godly women want to do godly femininity. They do not want to fall into godless feminism. That's not our team. That's what you're seeing right here. And that's why I said that. Let me keep you on. Do you know why the woman is in a wheelchair? So what's her argument? It's an emotional appeal, hey, do you know why she shouldn't be held responsible? She's in a wheelchair because she jumped out. I want to point something, the man said, the dude said, he said, she should have, I would have pushed her. Now let me just say something. That would be wrong. The Bible says vengeance is mine. I will replay, repaid, declares the Lord in Romans 12. And in Romans 13, here's your little Bible study. Romans 13 answers the question, well, then who is going to administer justice if god is forbidding individuals from committing vigilante justice? Romans 13 says that god has instituted the government to, quote, bear the sword on the wrongdoer. So it's the role of the government. It would be wrong for a dude just to push somebody out of window to commit vigilante justice. God doesn't do that. He's like, let the proper governing authorities do it now. But I do want to say as much as it sounds weird, the man's instinct is not wrong. I'm going to read two verses from the book of Deuteronomy, okay. Now obviously we don't just take a little crane and take the Old Testament civic laws of national Israel under the Old Covenant and then drop them on to nations in the New Covenant. That's a whole podcast in and of itself, Old Covenant, New Covenant, Discontinuity. But Theologians for centuries have said we should obviously at least be looking to what's called, quote, the general equity or the general wisdom of the Old Testament laws about how God said we should run a nation. Now I'm a rigid passage. I read my personal Bible reading three days ago from Leviticus 20 about what should happen to people when they put children to death, okay, this is Leviticus 20. The Lord spoke to Moses saying, say to the people of Israel, any one of the people who gives any of his children to mull up, that was a demonic false God shall surely be put to death. Now listen, skip down to verse four and it says this, here's why I say that man's instinct is not wrong. Like, hey, somebody has to administer justice on the person who murdered the children. Verse four, God says, and if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man or that woman, whoever commits the murder, when he or she gives one of their children to mull up, essentially burns them alive, kills them, kills them. And they do not put him to death. Watch verse five, then I will set my face against that man and against his clan. I will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him. Now listen, that ought to send a chill down your spine because what that's saying is when a nation watches someone or a group of people murder innocent children, first God wants his justice to fall in the murderer. But if the nation, quote, closes their eyes and refuses to administer justice, God is saying if you do that, my justice will turn from just being on the murderer and my justice and judgment will begin to fall on the nation who refuses to do anything about it. That guy's instinct is not wrong. Now, what I want to point out is what the lady defending Lindsey Clancy right here is her thing is like, well, man, she was going through a really hard time and let me just say, she was going through a really hard time. If you've ever prayed with a woman that's walking through postpartum depression is on SRI, SSRIs, all the things is actually suicidal. That's tragic and we weep with those who weep. But that is not an excuse for justice, not to fall. I'll just point this out, these are like little things that you'll see in your Old Testament and your eyes just skip over them and you don't realize why they're there. In Deuteronomy 19, it's specifically talking about the death penalty being the only appropriate response for murder. If a man sheds blood, by a man shale is blood be shed, that's that's Old Testament. God knew he is wise. God knew that people's emotions could be manipulated to keep them from administering justice. And so five times in the book of Deuteronomy, like in Deuteronomy 19, God says this, your eye shall not pity him. In other words, God's front running the human tendency to let emotional manipulation keep us from administering justice and he's saying, your eye shall not pity him. In other words, it doesn't matter that she was in wheelchair. It doesn't matter that she was depressed and it doesn't matter that she was on SSR highs. Your eye shall not pity her. He's saying justice, justice in the face of those things. Now, we're going to get just a little more spicy. Watch what happens next. Lindsay was in psychosis. I think these women are suffering some from psychosis. They've been watching too many true crime, Netflix dramas. Okay. Let me just warn you, if I'm going to say anything in the next few minutes, they just kind of set you off a little bit. It's going to be right here. He is not wrong. He's saying, man, with these thousands of women who are supporting the murder instead of the murdered and they're delving into just your rabbit hole conspiracy things. They're watching too many true crime, crime, Netflix dramas. Now, I'm going to read two verses in a second that are specifically given to pastor and disciple women, but they have like a wick coming out of them. There's like, there's some Bible verses like, pastors don't have to try to be controversial. They just have to be willing to read Bible verses. These two are some of them. So let me just explain something real quick. As a pastor, go, here's a little homework, it'll be fun for you. Go look at the comment sections on sermons where I preach to men and disciple men. And then go look at the comment sections on the sermons where I preach to women and disciple women. You may notice just a smidge of a difference in the comment sections. If a pastor like preaches aggressively to men and calls them up and addresses the sins of men, Bro, it's all clap emojis and it's a thousand shares and everybody's greatest hero. Sometimes, and let me just say this, the women of Lake Point do not do this. Godly women do not do this, but sometimes if a pastor even gently moves into correcting specific struggles of women, Bro, you better buckle up, you're going to have a week, okay? So let me just say something before I read these verses. Here's what I think about this as a pastor and what I've noticed is that Lake Point is that women of God love this. I refuse to rob the women of my church of the discipleship they need to grow up into the full measure of the stature of Jesus Christ. I refuse to do it. And Godly women want the Word of God taught to them and they want instruction, okay? Now, caveats out of the way, let me get to the Wic Bible verses. Here's why these Bible verses say what they do. Like theology, men and women are different, so men and women have different sin tendencies. If you haven't figured this out, dudes generally are more violent, not all the time, but in general, they can both with their words and in their actions, men are generally more prone to being overcome by lust of the flesh, things like that. There are sins that because of creational differences, men tend to struggle with more than women and they have to be confronted like that. And then, and here's the part nobody ever wants to acknowledge, because of creational differences, there are some sins that women struggle with more than men and they have to be addressed like that. Okay? If you don't believe that, well, I'll just, let me just keep going. Okay. Now, when he says, hey, man, why do you got thousands of women putting on pink shirts and doing me too, Lindsey rallies and literally donating as of today more than a million dollars in GoFundMe's to support the woman who murdered her three children. Why do you have this? Let me just read and there's somebody on X named Megan Basham, she pointed this out, I just want to give her credit here. These two verses, they applied directly to the situation. First one, here's a warning for women, first and the fifth. It says this, besides that, they say about some women in the church in Ephesus and first Timothy, they learn to be idle women, going about from house to house and not only idlers, but gossips and busy bodies, saying what they should not. So I would have, and here's what he says, I would have young women, watch what he says, Mary, have kids, manage their own households and give the adversary no occasion for slander and others will be saying, he's saying, hey, he's given a gentle watch out. Sometimes, a sin that women can uniquely sometimes struggle with is idleness in a way that manifests itself in becoming, I'm just reading the Bible, gossips and busy bodies going from house to house, saying things that they should not, okay. I'll shoot you real straight. When you see these videos of thousands of women at these rallies, very frankly, just, I'll just say what the verse is, a lot of them are idle women, who should be home focusing on their family, and instead, they're playing Nancy Drew and reading TikTok comment sections and they end up going from house to house, saying things they should not. Listen, you get mad at that all you want. That's an actual Bible verse and we do not apologize for anything the Word of God says. Let me give a second, just gentle warning. This is second, Timothy, three, six, okay. Now, I'm preaching through second Timothy right now. We're going to get to this passage and I'll wear my preaching helmet this week. It says this, it's talking about false teachers that come into the church and he's getting right to, watch what he says, he's getting ready to say, hey, watch out because there's a certain population or church that they're going to pray on. These false teachers will pray on more than the others. Here's what he says, for among them, the false teachers are those who creep into households and who do they capture? Here's what he says. Versus, they capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. And I'll shoot you real straight, man. When you're seeing rallies like that, sometimes what that is is a bunch of false teachers, a bunch of deceivers that get into some translations, say, gullible women's homes, via social media, convincing you of wrong things. And then dude, I just want to lean into this and just heads up. These next 30 seconds, very emotionally heavy, super pastorally charged. Any time I want to talk about this, I want to remind people, the grace of God can cover any sin, even the shedding of innocent blood, okay. Now, when that passage says this specific type of deception and false teaching, watch what he says, he says, man, you know how it's going to capture women, quote, weighed down by sins. I don't know how to say this in a way that doesn't just blow up in everybody's face. But sadly, if I had to guess at these rallies, and then in the Lindsey Clancy jury, I think it's nine of 11, it's either nine of 11 or nine of 12 jurors are women. And as of today, it's a hung jury, okay. And they said yesterday, it's two of the ladies on the jury that they're holding out on convicting or the thing. I don't know how to say this without just kind of just saying it. I don't know how to see that and not see that the sin of abortion. There are people, women who have been weighed down by latent guilt from previous sins. Literally speaking, there is an extremely high probability that that is in the background of what you're seeing right here. Here's, listen, I don't know how to see any other correlation. How are you going to ask a jury of nine women who statistically speaking, you're going to have at least 25 to 30% of them who, let me just speak it a straightforward way, they have murdered their own children in the womb because of, quote, extenuating circumstances or emotional dress. How are they going to convict that woman as guilty for something that at an emotional level, they have already acquitted themselves of innocent from? So when 2 Timothy 3 says, hey man, you better watch out because deceivers will get in and you know they're going to prey on, it says women whose consciences are burdened by sins. That, I think that's a little bit of what's going on here. So watch out, there's a thing that happens, all right, now watch, watch what happens next year. You know, this was a incredibly privileged woman, incredibly wealthy. She had a nanny and she's still complaining that she needed help. She could not have got more help from the system that she already had received. This is a murder strangled her children one by one. Listen to her language, listen. Right away and she chased him down and killed it, Lauren Watkins. What you just said was absolutely disgusting. Thank you. She should be ashamed of yourself. Thank you. This, she looks at the guy who's pointing out justice should fall in a murderer and she says to that guy, you're the one who should be ashamed. Now let's do a little theology. This is going to start to make sense of a lot of things you see in society. So let me say it. Let me explain it. In an up, in a morally upside down society, shame gets inverted, okay. We got Bible verses for this, okay. This is Philippians 3. Listen real close, what Philippians 3 says is going to happen among people who get inverted because of sinful natures. Here's what it says. "For many of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears walk as enemies of the cross of Christ." So like their hearts are upside down towards God. Their end is destruction. Their God is their belly. What that means is they're ruled by feelings and desires. That's what their God is their belly means. They're ruled by feelings and desires and then watch this. They glory in their shame. So what he's saying is, you just saw that woman do a Bible verse and she didn't know she was doing a Philippians 3. He's saying, man, when a society gets turned upside down, here's what it ends up doing. They glorify shameful things and they shame glorious things. So a woman who strangled her kids shouldn't be ashamed. She should be defended. And a man who says, just this should be done, that's the guy that should be ashamed. That's what Jesus saw there. And you can hear that he's not, okay? This is true. He really don't care. So pipe down. By the way, men watching this, if you have a woman standing next to you on the sofa who is defending this murderer, you got to think deeply about this. He ain't wrong. He ain't wrong. In fact, actually, he is wrong. He says, you got to think deeply about this. Nope. Nope. You don't. Run. Run for the hills. If you're a guy that's dating a girl who's watching this and she knows that this lady murdered the three kids and she's siding with a murderer instead of the three kids because the emotional duress, if you're dating that girl, you don't got to think deeply at all. Run. Run for the hills. Because if you're dating somebody who would defend killing children outside the womb because of emotional distress, what do you think she might do to your children inside the womb. If she has emotional dress. Nope, you don't got to think deeply at all. Run for the hills. So we need to have some empathy with your women and my empathy. Listen to that word, I think they're defending this woman. I don't think anybody's defending what she did, but you can have empathy. Okay, empathy. Now, I just want to point this out. We had Alibas Stucky on the show. Alibas Stucky. She wrote a book called toxic empathy. This is an extremely important concept for you to understand. You're seeing it like actually interaction like case study. Number one, right over here, right over here. Toxic empathy 101. Okay. Now, dude, I'll just say it. Christians are extremely prone to getting manipulated by feelings and empathy. Why? Because we want. We're the compassion people. But that's like our thing. This is a old, this is a theological side. Old dead theologian guy named BB Warfield. He wrote a book. I think it was called the emotional life of Jesus that I perused for years ago. And he pointed out that the number one emotion Jesus is described as expressing in the gospels is compassion. So I just want to clearly and emphatically say this. We Christians, we are the compassion people. But we have to be as wise as serpents while we are also being as innocent as doves. And you got to watch out because the Christian impulse towards compassion is very easily manipulated to go from being godly compassion to toxic empathy. Okay. So check this out. Here's let me say what I'm not saying because like the entire internet loses their minds and I've had this, people say this before. That guy says that empathy is a sin. No, I've literally nobody ever says that. No one is saying that. We're saying, we're not saying nobody is saying empathy is toxic. What people are saying is the empathy can become toxic in two situations when it becomes watch this selective empathy. So when the camera lens zooms in on only one person to the exclusion of all the other people, that becomes toxic empathy. In this situation when all the empathy gets focused on the murderer and then we're leaving the three dead children out of the camera angle, well then all of a sudden that becomes toxic empathy. The other situation where you get toxic empathy is wherever and just watch out for this as a Christian. You need to be very aware of this. Whenever someone like you're seeing right here, I'm both like literally right here. When someone weaponizes empathy in a way that they command your empathy to override either logic or justice, logic or justice, you are being manipulated and that's not godly compassion. That's toxic empathy. That is toxic empathy. I know many women that this has happened to. No, they did not kill their children, but they also what you fail to make sure because they do. I've had it with you. Whenever you're losing an argument, just get louder. Oh my god. You just saw sexism and misogy. So I said earlier, man, how do you know that really this isn't about justice. It's just about taking sides. Well, at the end of the day, that's the moment the mask comes off because for her, she doesn't see somebody making a logical argument about justice. For her, it's just you're on the wrong side of the gender equation. So everything you say is invalid. It's just sexism and misogyny. So what you're seeing is it's not about justice. It's just about sides. I'm done. She says I'm done. Hey, she says I'm done. And so are we with a bonus episode, but the warning is there will also come a day when a god who the Bible describes as slow to anger. And right now he is looking upon peoples and nations who are, quote, according to Romans chapter one, storing up wrath for the day of judgment. And I can't let the episode finish without just saying this. For 50 years in our nation, we have legally been murdering children and telling people that it's fine. There is no way to see that as anything other than a nation storing up wrath for a coming judgment unless we see repentance. And there will come a day. She said, I'm done. There will come a day when God who is slow to anger and abounding in faithfulness. There will come a day when he will look at a nation that's storing up wrath. And he will also say, I'm done. And justice will fall. Now, last thing I want to say is we're gospel people. And the great news of the gospel is this, even for somebody who is committed murder. In fact, I'm not an idiot. You know, I'm a pastor. We pray with people in lobbies all the time. And you might be somebody who maybe you've committed one of the sins or you have been with somebody who's committed one of the sins we've talked about in the last few minutes. And I just want to remind you that the entire message of the gospel is grace and forgiveness before God for murderers. Why can't I say that? Because I'm one. It was my sin that held him there and the words of him. And when you ask the question who killed Jesus, the answer is Josh Howerton and the sins of Josh Howerton killed Jesus. And so in the most important sense, every single one of us who has been donated to Jesus Christ and received His grace, do you know what we are? We are forgiven murderers. And we will enter heaven to the embrace of the one we murdered. The Apostle Paul entered heaven to the applause of Christians he murdered. And somebody like Lindsay Clancy or somebody maybe like you. If you bend your knee to Jesus Christ and receive His grace, you will enter heaven to the applause and the embrace of anyone against whom you have sinned. Welcome to Team Jesus, the team of grace and hope. There you go.