The ultimate Knicks-Spurs preview with Gary Payton, Malika Andrews, Fred Katz, and Jared Weiss from the first-ever NBA Finals Podcast Row (Part I)

okay i know that you were used to hearing a test a silly one from us and i know that you were all used to a silly goofy show um but we're at the first ever nba podcast row from the final so you can expect a different show this is going to be like pretty serious because this is a big deal yeah no this is truly the biggest deal on the planet it really will be a 180 for our shareholders so we really just want to prepare you make you guys aware that this is not going to be a normal episode for us no i noticed that i had horrible rbf you can tell the difference when i'm talking without a smile on my face and when i'm talking with a smile on my face but they were leg mike and ike's i think they were like calf mike and ike's sweet and salty goes together nicely or does he take your advice you you know my son deandre jordan he loves walking through the woods forests is it a doodle it is a of course it is they call that the male engagement ring of course the guy on live tv has a doodle oh certainly oh uh-oh our table is collapsing well a referee's involved yeah just kidding oh i thought i was gonna make a noise it's like we have party hats on and we've got party horns if you're not watching this we do recommend watching this on youtube this is the same show you've come to know and love and we're on a bigger stage folks and we are so excited to present the sports gossip show sponsored by ebay live from the nba finals in san antonio this is crazy this is the the nba for those who don't know are doing this thing called podcast row which is where they invited eight shows i think to come to to nine not they invited nine shows got a little to the arena camera little note nine they invited nine shows um which is not very many shows and we got to be one of them and we we got that email and we were like oh my god highest honor yes absolutely yeah we were and then we showed up like this and then we showed up like this because of course we showed up like this because we can't help it because our shareholders i know you know us better than anyone and i'm sure when you heard that first intro you said surely that's not true you probably yes come on you could have heard me trying not to laugh through the microphone and we've been laughing all day we have uh we have some amazing guests for you um you will you've seen them in the title so you know who's in here we're not sure who is yet because we have a bunch of interviews and we're gonna cut them up yep between one day to another every guest we're recording this after um we can say they were truly incredible no really i i say this every time we have a guest but i really mean it they really were all incredible and gave something a whole new perspective of the finals so i just saw your tiny little party hat yes we didn't know we really did got every we got former players ref perspective broadcasters broadcast perspective reporters reporters us us whatever um and first though we do want to say we went to media day today so we heard from victor obanyama we heard from the spurs head coach mitch johnson we heard from nick star jalen brunson and we heard from the spurs head coach mitch johnson and we heard from head coach mike brown and the vibes for each of these teams also julian champagny on this on the spurs is hilarious yeah um the vibes for each of these teams we're telling you right now we don't really have a gut feeling because they're both immaculate like what what is above well fernando mendoza what's above him the knicks in 2026 just the nba it's also the spurs in 2026 yeah yeah yeah i mean i i was like i gotta be honest i was i was pretty confident than going into this with the next i'm like i'm not saying i didn't think they're gonna sweep yeah i just think that's well that was no way that's happening i'd be shocked right but i do think i felt a little bit more confident with the knicks just based on vibes and performance but then watching wendy get up on the stage at that press conference i i can't explain it but there is something about this man in person he is truly from a different planet and the aura around him he is so locked in he is locked in like no one i've ever seen before no they're they're there's something you said that watching wendy play basketball is like watching god and it's true it was seeing him in person um there is a there's almost a mysticism to it there he there's another world that he has access to that um you can also tell he is very tapped into right now because his answers at the press conferences have been much shorter than they usually are he's always a really thoughtful guy and he still is really thoughtful but you could tell that he this is tunnel vision now yeah and he's not getting through the tunnel vision and he's not getting through the tunnel vision distracted by anything and he's sort of doing a very good job of keeping that contained yes yes jaylen brunson however also just seemed very confident yeah and he also looked very relaxed and i don't and i mean that in a complimentary way yes he looked very relaxed at the press conference he also at his press conference madeline and i for some reason uh put ourselves in the third row right in the center didn't even think about it just said oh here's some seats sat down jaylen brunson at the press conference madeline and i for some reason uh put ourselves in the third row right in the center didn't even think about it just said oh here's some seats sat down jaylen brunson every answer that he gave he spoke directly to us in our soul and it felt like it wasn't even like he was spacing out like i like i think he was making eye contact with both of us and we said and i said well i couldn't look at charlotte and i also couldn't say anything about it during the press conference because he's looking at you jaylen if you're listening come to the pod i'm sorry we were right down your eyeline it might have been a little strange well you know what i'll say what we did smile and nod really encouraging me we were i was invested in because i was actively listening i was and and also yeah just anyway anyways um i think we should do a little activity that we made our guests do don't you think yeah okay um i think we are going to draw our predictions for nba finals mvp we made our guests do this including some very famous people and i don't know where it is where did it go oh oh i see it one second one second charlotte's charlotte's going to get it she's off camera and she is coming back and i i got my glasses too just oh wait hide the hide the we don't want those you can't blur it out hold on you can't see we had our guests do it there really are some unbelievable ones we can make a lot of money on ebay from these probably could honestly um so we're going to draw them we are not going to use any words so we can do symbols people whatever we want and we're each going to we're going to narrate what we're doing as we're doing it um what sharpie would you like madeline i'll take the thin one please i think i want a thin one too okay yeah you know what charlotte you go first and i'll narrate okay so one at a time um charlotte is getting her paper her centered she is thinking she's locked in turn the paper uh landscape okay she looks like she's drawing a table a table okay oh she's got a bunch of little circles on the top of the table it's the crowd this is oh you can't sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry my bad my bad my bad um they look like clouds charlotte is drawing clouds that are apparently people okay now she okay now i see it she's definitely drawing a court and i'm guessing okay oh she's drawing a little person with some hair just a little stick figure his arms are in the air i'm assuming this is a basketball player okay he looks like he's kind of got long hair his he's got one hand with a little tiny hand and then the other hand is big and looks like it's doing a motion i think i know who this is i'm gonna guess gotta give him a face nope charlotte's giving him a face all right hold it up to the class wait wait wait oh she's not done okay sorry she's adding more details in the background right okay well can you tell what that is nope that looks like a light a light yeah okay let me see i think it's jaylen brunson it is jaylen brunson star of the new york knicks okay you know i'm gonna be honest i didn't know what i was gonna draw until i started drawing wow we gotta feel it i i felt it i it's you know wemby's connected to another world but i am too wow and i and this came to me and we'll see if i'm gonna sign it okay wow all right that's beautiful okay i think this is probably riveting audio this is really riveting audio okay all right here we go madeline is she's she's drawing what appear to be mountains i know okay i think i see where oh beautiful mountains got snow capped well now the snow is black so um maybe it's another planet okay there's a a man or a little guy and a basketball and it the dots on the basketball and he's smiling and he's got little hair and he and there's an ocean below and he's going up and i think if i had to guess that would be victor wabanyama dribbling a basketball up a mountain in china so you think he's gonna be the mvp you know what if i'm thinking about it right now i do okay if i'm just going off of what i saw today you know what i mean if in this moment i gotta be honest i trust me i want the nicks to win so bad i so bad but i do fear for their sake because wemby is so locked in i it's really almost a little terrifying it's true so that's my only thing i would love love for the next one that is the only thing i want in this world yeah for myself for your loved ones thank you for the community of new york city for nicks fans everywhere however if i'm being objective - I really like this. So I like that we each pick different people. You have to sign that because I do think like I when when we started talking today, we looked at each other and I said the Knicks are we were like the Knicks are screwed. Yeah, this is terrifying. But then I heard Jalen Brunson and he had a calmness and a poise to him where I was like, oh, boy, I think it I think it could go either way. Obviously, I think it's I think at the end of the day, he is going to be Mr. Clutch. OK. All right. I would love to see it. So and with that, folks, we are thrilled to present to you the first ever NBA podcast row feet sports gossip show. We are here with the one and only Malika Andrews, ESPN broadcaster, ABC. I mean, you're just the sky's the limit for you, Malika. Or we just have lots of networks. But yeah, well, you know, there you go. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. It's my pleasure to be here. So I'm excited. I'm looking forward to this. Well, podcast row first ever. Yeah. First ever. You're also our first guest. Well, I am being a first time guest. This is my first stop on podcast row. So no pressure at all. But I have very, very high expectations. We'll do our best not to let you down. OK, I was going to say we'll do our best not. We are off to a great start here. And this is my time. There you go. Malika, you've been covering the finals for many years now. How I mean, it's incredible. And you started so young and you've just you're so talented. And how what have you seen change the most about the event of the finals since you've been doing this? Well, I mean, other than podcast row, because this is something that's new and sort of the first time. But I do think the finals, they get bigger in a sense every single year and they get a bit more global every single year. And I was trying to think when you said for a long time, my first NBA finals that I covered for ESPN was the bubble. And so. Oh, my God. Right. So I think everything has changed since my first NBA finals. It was the most unique and interesting in a lot of ways, strange experience. And people debate the validity of it. And I think that going from that NBA finals for ESPN to this and I think I've had a different job in every single one of the NBA finals I've covered, essentially, from doing the pregame show to sidelines to now doing NBA today and contributing to inside. So, you know, I think that the NBA finals. So the through line has hopefully always been amazing basketball. And last year we got a seven game series. And I'm hoping that this year we're going to get six or seven games. I mean, I feel like we certainly will get a very exciting series. Let's talk about the series. Yeah. Let's talk about the Spurs and the Knicks. Do you have any feelings about the teams? Do you have a sense of maybe what might happen? We talk a lot on our show about the vibes of the team. Yeah. You can sense body language if like there's something off. Do you have like a very strong gut feel? You know how? Like parents say or mom say, I know what like gender my child. Yes. Do you have a very strong gut feeling entering this series? I got to be honest. When I entered, I was feeling the Knicks. When she entered. Now that she's exiting. I was feeling the Knicks, but then we were watching the Spurs press conference and I don't know. I'm a little worried for the Knicks. I got to be honest. They just they felt really locked in, even just in their answers. When B2 has started doing shorter answers and it just. Just feels like he is dialed in. Yeah. I don't know. Do you have a strong gut either way? So I that's why kind of why I was asking is I felt like I had a very strong opinion. My producer and I have made a little agreement. We won't call it a bet. We'll call it an agreement. All right. All right. And I'm three. Oh, and oh, in that agreement so far. And I've picked the Spurs kind of throughout the entire way. And he said, all right, like, do I is this the time I'm going to have my redemption? And I sort of watched. Waffled back and forth, because this is sort of the first time that I I think that there was a sentiment at some point in the Western Conference finals. And you guys tell me if you think this is incorrect, that the championship was being played in the Western Conference. Yes, it was going to be whoever came out of the Oklahoma City Thunder in the San Antonio Spurs series is going to win the title. I don't necessarily think that is true. We had a number that Brian Winhurst brought on our show today that absolutely baffled me when a team is coming off a sweep. And the other team is coming off a seven game series in the finals. The team coming off the sweep is twenty and four. No series. Twenty and four. It feels like it feels like what I'm hearing from you is that you have gone based on a feeling about the Spurs. And now you're asking me to do the analytically. No, no, no, I'm not. This person's winning. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm asking you, what is it that you look for? Yeah. And maybe you don't know, but we talk a lot. I feel like, you know, there's so much. Statistical analysis you can do, which is obviously incredibly valid and helpful. There's also the just feeling of a team and how important teamwork is and how the leadership is. And it seems after the press conferences today, especially, it feels like the vibes are very similar. What do you look for when you're and also like you sat down with Kat and Jalen. You sat down with Wemby. What is it about those people that makes this possible? So can we just Wemby is so special. Like, can we just pause for a second? On how special Victor Wemby is as a person. And I think he's so good for the sport, right? I think that there haven't been that many players that have his combination of skill set and his combination of honesty and also vulnerability. And it just makes you want to root for him and everything that he does. It just feels so genuine. Like when he took the Western Conference MVP trophy and let fans like touch it as he was walking out. Some players you might want to say, oh, like that's. With Victor, it just, of course, he does that. Of course, that's how he feels. And so whenever I, I've been really lucky that I've gotten to interview Victor a lot. And whenever I talk to him, he's one of the most introspective people that I've, I've had a chance to chat with. And today he said something that I thought was really interesting. He said, I don't want to be patient. I think that impatience is a virtue because nine times out of 10, it may just be impatience. But that 10th time, it's going to pay off into something bigger. I love it. And it's when he says things like that, I do believe him. I like data to answer your question. And I like known facts, right? Like, that's what I like to deal with. I like to deal with, I know the facts and I get to tee up our analysts and they get to wax on poetically or in Richard Jefferson's case, clunkily and like whatever the thing is. Right. I'm kidding. We love Richard. Throw in shade. Throw in shade. Only smooth. As smooth as his bald dome. Of course. But, but I, I do, I, I try to sort of fall back on what I know. And that's, I think what's so interesting and difficult about this series. The Knicks team that we saw play the Spurs in the regular season is very different than the Knicks team that we're seeing now. I think they are much, much better. I think San Antonio knows that. I think that experience tends to win out. I also think San Antonio bucks that trend. And so what I'm telling you is I'm very, very conflicted. And up until the moment that I have to pick tomorrow on NBA Today, I will change my opinion like 65 times and drive all of our producers crazy. Well, it's a big, big decision. I like to be right, Charlotte. I like to do these things willy nilly. I like to be correct. There's also a little bit of that piece of competitive piece, which is a little bit ridiculous. Since you like numbers, if you could put a percentage for how much you think about the numbers and the data when making those predictions versus the vibes, because for us, I would say a hundred percent of our predictions are vibes. I would say it's, I would say it's 60, 40, 60 numbers, 40 vibes. Okay. I want to be more of a viber. I'm a little, I'm a little, we're not always that way. Everybody has their own. And also, by the way, liking numbers, being good with numbers, two very different things. I am the former, not the latter. Liking, not good with. Terrible at math. Horrible. Very bad at math, which is partly maybe why we're all talking. Yeah, yeah. Are you good at math? No, no. The only math I'm good at is when we do our percentage of how correct our vibes based predictions are. Because it's based off of a hundred. So we did it like last year. Yeah. We did like all of the NFL season last year. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would calculate the percentage. That's the extent of my math skills. No, no, no. That's not my skill. No, it's very. I would calculate the percentage based on the fewest math classes that I would have to take. Yeah, same. Yes. Yeah. And my math requirement, I took logic. Oh. Wasn't even numbers. What was the reason? Because it wasn't numbers. That was supposed to be a logic. But it counted. And you could talk about reason and logic. Yeah. Well, the reason was that if you have. I knew she was saying that. What about that? I was like, if Madeline has 10 apples, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. So in talking to these players, what is it, what is your relationship like when you've interviewed these people. Yeah. And then you get to know them. And then you interview them again. It's such a human thing to want to know someone. Yeah. Or like them. And then there's also the divide of being in front of cameras. I don't know that there's that much of a divide. I really like most of the guys we cover. I would say there's very few people, which is such an awesome thing that we work with. Yeah. It's like, oh, we have to do this. I think that most players are kind of joys to be around, and certainly in this series. Yeah. And I think that's what's so cool about this. I'm like, I root for good people. I root for people that I enjoy talking to and that I enjoy covering. And I think that, you know, Victor has certainly become one of those people, and it's been awesome to do. I did his draft declaration interview, so he joined us, like, Zoom. from Paris. - Yes, I remember that. - Yeah, it was his very first American interview. And he looks so young now and you look, I look so young, heck, it was, you know what I'm like. And I think when you can build those relationships with people over time and you become someone who is associated with these tentpole moments in anybody's life, like whenever you are that for somebody, you sort of associate that person or I associate those people with these big, moments, even in my career, right? When I think about my relationship with Giannis, right? I think about, obviously, when I was covering him as a beat writer, when he walked out of the press conference, then when two years later, I was handing him a championship trophy. There's all these things that sort of like dot our relationship. That's sort of what human nature is. And it's not like or dislike. It's just this awesome growth where you get to know these people that, by the way, so much of the world wants to know and so much of the world wants a piece of. And so if you get to be some of the conduit to that, I mean, I think that that's an immense honor and it's also a privilege. But it also is sometimes like just talking. At some point, it becomes just talking to someone who you deeply respect and are curious about. And that's mostly how I think of, especially Victor, certainly Jalen Brunson, especially the guys who just don't do that many interviews. I feel very lucky that percentage wise, I get to do quite a few of them. And that's all. Awesome. Yeah. Are there any aspects of your job that would be surprising to someone who's maybe not a sports fan or is a diehard sports fan? I always get sweaty when people ask me about what's surprising or unexpected. I don't want to I don't want to assume people like I don't think it's rocket science. So I don't I don't know that I would assume. Well, our show, we know, but there are people who don't really follow sports that much. There are people who are diehard fans. It's kind of a fun space to play in where there's no wrong answer. I think there's always wrong answers. You're like, I'm a data person. I'm like, there's right and wrong at the end of this. Other than that, like that you have to pass, like other than that, it's totally fine. I think that people might be I think they might be you might be surprised to kind of just see the amount of juggling and sort of balancing and sort of being the mom of the show that I hate to kind of off camera. I think that that's that's a big part of my job. And it's something that I love. But yeah, and then also our group text would shock people. Those texts can never ever see the light of day. Our Belgian waffles group. Yeah, it's just like, is that what it's called? It's called Belgian waffles. Some somehow because AJ Mitchell is called the Belgian waffle. And like, we decided to call him that and then it got there you go. If it's the name of the group chat, it's something we're also kind of obsessed with his infrastructure. And like scaffolding, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and the broadcast is basically, I mean, it's also logistics plant, like and how something happens. Yeah. You know, the book, did you have the books like how stuff works? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Although when you said how stuff happens, I think of Hamilton and be in the room where it happened. Yes. I still haven't seen Hamilton. I know all the songs. You should. Yeah, I know. I know. Hamilton. Like, if you're listening, you need to go. Lin-Manuel Miranda. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what was I saying? Oh, it's infrastructure. We like it. We love it. What like, how do you get on a broadcast? Like, like the actual Yeah, like when you're down there, and like, you know, they're coming to you what's going on in your ear. I just think all that stuff is so fast. A lot. And I love to when Chris Paul was working with us, I think last NBA final was last NBA finals. I love to hand a new analyst a headset, and they get to hear everything that I hear. Because what I hear is different. It's different than what Kendrick hears, which is different. I hear more, right? I hear much more of the ending the B roll in five, three, all right, back on camera, take care of it. Because I like to know the scaffolding. I like to know what's happening. I can tune it out. And I usually I'm just listening to what the person is saying. But I like to be able to hear all of the sort of cacophony of other things that are happening so that I can prepare and pivot and figure it out. I'm a big puzzle person. So not much is usually going through my mind before a broadcast starts other than smile. And I don't say it as in like, actually smile. I say that because when I'm talking in particular, this is such a dorky thing. You can tell the difference when I'm talking without a smile on my face and when I'm talking with a smile on my face. And so my trick is if I'm always kind of smiling, then what I'm saying, even if I'm really happy, yeah, like I'm, I'm really enjoying myself right now, it sounds totally different. So if I make myself smile, even when I'm not on camera, it is like a trick that I tell myself to because every TV is bigger and more magnified. And so it's sort of my trick to let people know that what I'm feeling on the inside, it's actually synonymous is what I'm showing on the outside, right? Because I noticed that I had horrible RBF when I started broadcasting my entire life because I was alive, alive. My whole life. I was just kind of like this. And yeah, I have very furrowed brows. Yep. So that's being able to, I think it's very important to be able to scowl. It shows you're serious. It shows you mean business. Well, and I also want it to be taken seriously, but I, I figured out from actually watching Robin Roberts, Robin always delivers with like one corner of her mouth slightly up. And even when something is sad, it's, it's sad differently than sad. You know what I mean? Like it's a different, so that's what you, this is incredible. That's why you do what you do. That was, no, unbelievable. Um, I've never, I mean, cause it w everything on TV has to be big. It has to be big. Not because, and I don't, not because that's, that's fake or that's no, but because the camera hides so much that unless you really show it, then it's why you talk louder when you're on TV. My sister's when I'm on the phone, she's like, you're using your TV voice. You're talking so loud. It just, everything requires a little bit more. And so for me, that's the scaffolding. Yeah. It's hit my points. I think in bullet points when I do TV, not scripts. So it's, um, we're going to do a scene set. We're gonna introduce everybody. And then we're gonna get to Victor Wemba, Yama sound, whatever order you do that in it, it, as long as you get there, don't worry about memorizing what you just set to right. Reading teleprompter and just say it, just do it. Just be, I could listen to you talk about this for hours. Oh my God. This is absolutely fascinating. It's such a skill. Yeah. It's such, it's such a learned practice, like perfected skill. That to hear the, the thought process behind it is really cool. Well, I think that I am a little bit of a perfectionist and I think I've always said there's sort of two sides to a perfectionist coin and one side can drag you down and the other side you can sort of pour into and hone and perfect and work on a craft. And I don't mean to say like capital C craft, where you take yourself too seriously and you can't have fun. And ultimately this is about the players it is. But I do think for me in my life, where I have gotten way too hyper focused on where I have fallen short in certain places to be able to pour into doing something to a practice of TV. That's why like when people say I practice medicine, I practice TV because it's a process and an improvement. And when you can pour into something that then becomes perfectionism turned into goodness, I think that that's a necessary outlet for so many of us type a people who just want to do good and be good and create good. I think that's a necessary ingredient. Yeah, I'm going to take that with me. I love that. I mean, that's printed on a T-shirt. I'm like, I mean, this whole transcript. Is there anything when you go into the finals, do you have like a, I don't know, like a mission statement or a goal for yourself because you are a perfectionist and you're always striving, I would imagine, to do better and be better that you think about going into the finals? Sometimes I do think the games you're at the mercy of the games and you're at the mercy of we're coming off an Eastern Conference finals. That was a sweep and you can do great work in a sweep and it's going to be remembered differently than great work in a seven game series like we had last year with the Indiana Pacers in the Oklahoma City Thunder. So I think the game is the star is the it's Tim Corrigan, one of our great producers says it all the time, but I think it's very true and it drives things. That being said for myself, I'm always I always want to make this matter. I always I feel so much pressure in writing. I wrote a like a monologue last year for game seven. And it took me forever to write. Oh, I remember. I remember that. Yeah, that was special. It's something we don't get to do very often. I think NBC does a really great job of it. It's something that you know, I'm a writer and so coming from that. But I think we live in such a fast fashion world sometimes that certainly the games are what makes this memorable. But how can we do the supporting work around the games that make it matter? Yeah. No pressure, but like that's sort of I think what I think of going into the finals. Pressure is a privilege. It's true. Rare error. Malika, before we let you go. Okay. We ask every guest this. Madeline, do the honors. We ask every guest what is their favorite sports gossip story of all time? Can be any off the field story in any sport to any magnitude. Could be a small story or a big story. We've heard it all. Yep. So I don't know if there's anything that comes to mind. J.R. Smith throwing the soup. I was like, yes. Yes. I was. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because it's just so it's one of those things where it's just so silly. Yes. Remarkably. And then having to do the digging of what kind of soup it was. Who broke that? Was it a bread bowl? Right. Was it from Panera? Was it tortilla soup? I think it was chicken tortilla soup. I think it was. But for some reason when I hear throw soup, I think broccoli cheddar. Okay. Because it's kind of thick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you could have a thick chicken. It's more like a thin runny minestrone situation. No, you don't want a thickness there. No, no, no, no. Sorry. You need to have impact. That's reserved for chowders. Yep. That's reserved for. um yeah that was cheese based situations yeah i love it that's a great answer that's really good yeah malika thank you so much thank you thank you for having me so fun it's a pleasure to watch you and we'll be rooting for for you oh thank you this nba finals are you gonna make a third mug because oh do you want it do you want one i collect here oh no you could just have this one take this one yeah this is for you i get a mug we'd be honored for you to have that i will drink my coffee happily out of honor thank you so much thank you so much coming on we all look like we're going a different way no one got the correct dress code same car different functions different functions i'm gonna be honest i think we've been let's just start that was all part of it yeah that's perfect hello hello hello thank you thank you these are two of our buddies we've got jared wife's wife jared wife jared wife i'm a wife waiting for her husband you're a lad you okay all right i'm trying this again we have jared weiss we have fred cats two amazing writers reporters for the athletic here with us on our athletic podcast this is a dream come true how are you guys doing my dreams are coming true i'm doing great oh we're honored to have you both you guys need better dreams what no no we are dreaming big it's you guys it's you guys it's you guys you're welcome there you're welcome thank you lucky them to have that kind of dream my dream come true is my third pot i've done with fred in the last 24 hours well we hope that you learn something new about fred on this podcast i do every single time i talk to him that's the goal that's the goal we're trying to bring men together and form deeper male friendship bonds it's about time um can you guys so jared you moved this season to cover the spurs and here we are fred you've been within how long have you been covering the uh i was a knicks beat writer for three years and then i've been in this position for two now but i'm around them so much more than they would like yeah too much yes did either of you actually think you would be sitting here for the finals this year absolutely not really like i thought they might make a nice little playoff run yeah uh but i know when i came down here the thinking was get in as early as we can i mean it wasn't super early there's people that have been here longer but i wanted to get in early in just seeing the experience of wemby figure out who he is and who he is as a player and as a person and he figured it out very quickly i don't think we were anticipating it being this fast i don't know if anybody did yeah you know but he just he's special yeah as simple as that yeah fred did you think the knicks would be here yes i did i mean they fired their coach after last year after making the eastern conference finals with the intent being that the eastern conference finals is not good enough they have to win it all and and i thought they had a real chance to or at least they have to win the east i thought they had a real chance to do something but they didn't they didn't win the conference finals they didn't win the tournament they didn't win the tournament they didn't win the tournament they didn't win the tournament they didn't win the tournament they didn't win the tournament they didn't win the tournament and then they started to struggle a little bit and look a little inconsistent and the celtics started to look really good and the celtics got jason tatum back and you're like is it really gonna happen and they go on this run in the playoffs it's just been spectacular where they have been destroying everybody in their path and yeah kind of made you wonder why you thought they weren't going to get here yes that's true that's true jared let's start with you how are you feeling about the spurs vibes going into this finals well their vibes have been there probably their strongest asset right like you walk into their locker room they're partying like it's really it's a legit party what do you mean okay there's no keg stands going on or anything like that but party in the usa there's like a 28 chance that's playing when you walk in calvin johnson's always got something completely random going on the boom box and i should say i know that like we did the story about party in the usa and a thousand miles and that's what everyone thinks of it's a very wide range of music like it changes very often party in the usa just comes back in the fold every once in a while but he likes to keep it crazy in there and it's almost it's really a battle over the ox for the most part but the vibes are just so comfortable they just seem to always be happy yeah they're in a good mood they're having fun they're goofing on each other someone's calling steph stephanie someone's calling fox unk like they're i think that happened today at media day right you know so uh they've i've never seen the mat like i straight up have never seen the map it doesn't really happen fred have you seen the nyx man he's like no comment yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm the new york media so yeah right yes i have and they've been mad at you everyone's been mad at me no we couldn't wait till i'm gone to get mad they just get upset that's kind of nice it's straightforward yeah that's true they see me and they think no um no so when we said we wanted to have you on the show i said you know nick's preview but or finals preview and you said no one wants that they want gossip i'll give you something from my fourth comment i'll give you something from my fourth comment i'll give you something from my coming book plug your book and tell us some gossip who's some hot goss all right oh he's right he's warming up looking at me he's just leaning closer to the mic for those listening he's getting the zone last time i was on the book the book is called under the bright lights the rise of the new york nets incredible title i can't wait i hopefully it's even better than the title that's the goal is that even possible yeah you might have blown it that's too good comic sans font you know that's about it it's seven words yeah the only thing in there is it just says how good is that title you heard it here first how about that title that's all it is we're taking it not judging a book by its cover to a new extreme where we're like not even we're cutting out any animation on the cover we're just judging by the title just title it's there's no greater example of wherever humanity's attention span went then they said don't judge don't judge a book by its cover and now we're like let's judge it only on the title title only and we need to blurb it and say that on the back of the book can we oh blurb it you can blur it oh my god you don't promise anything not me don't promise don't promise it no only if your blurb is what a title no idea what this book is about i don't period this book could be about submarine warfare on world war ii which i would be interested in totally but then it wouldn't be under the bright light i guess it could be under there you don't know okay sorry okay can you tell us about it there's no book the whole thing the whole thing's a lie i don't even cover the mba i just want to come on this podcast okay so i i just i thought last time i was on we had a long conversation about josh hart yeah and none of it was serious and i i just thought i should i should add on to some of the mike and ike stories that i uncovered while yes oh my god please please reporting for the book so should i i assume i should update the listeners on the mike and ike's fiasco yeah yeah yes please josh hart has a huge mike and ike's problem he eats like two family-sized boxes of mike and ike's every day uh yeah he had some after games he's got a real mike and ike's problem it's a serious problem i need to talk to his dentist yeah i'm actually really concerned about this well like the movie theater side i i attempted to talk to his dentist no fred i was not able to because there hasn't been one consistent dentist what i i he's had multiple dentists i do have his mother commenting on his dentist for the book though stop that was the best i could do his mother when i asked her if she would interview with me for the book she put her hand on my shoulder gently and said oh we love publicly embarrassing josh and then agreed to do an interview with the book and then proceeded to publicly embarrass josh she was great she's amazing oh my god are you going to tell us about these friends yeah so so i thought you guys would like to know that i've done some more investigation yes stephen bondy wrote like the josh hart mike and ike story which i was so jealous of when he wrote it because it was amazing and the new york post a few years ago about josh hart bringing a bunch of mike and ike's to the bubble uh having a crown in because he's had like a gazillion root cause canals and whatever else yeah his dentist telling him not to eat mike and ike's for a little while him saying screw it eating the mike and ike's in the first day and ripping out the crown and then not being able to get it put back in because he would have had to leave the bubble and this was during covid and so he had to play the bubble like with like a missing tooth and a horrible toothache the whole time still proceeded to eat mike and ike's throughout the day uh that's the great one oh my god i'll i'll tell you one though i think that's a tragic story by the way it's like really tragic it's true jared i'll tell you one though so when josh when josh was a kid and he really started developing the mike and ike's thing i think around high school was when it really happened this is so weird like a lot of things and his his developmental period look you know people have have worse problems that start when they're teenagers you know i just wore bermuda shorts and made home movies so look at me now that's kind of that is kind of worse honestly this is a home movie yeah that's what i'm saying this is a home movie yeah continue so his parents told him he had to stop with the mike and ike's they were like it's like it's not healthy too much you gotta stop having mike and ike's so he started hiding mike and ike's in order to sneak them throughout the day started hiding mike and ike's in his socks no not in his sock drawer a loose mike in one and an icon in the other i think they were mike in the nike everywhere no in his socks. A warm, a warm, I guess. Now, I have never confronted you josh on this fact specifically because i spoke about with both of his parents who said that they knew that he was doing it and they never confronted him about it and we all agreed it would be the funniest if i just didn't ask for comment and just said it no so i have it i have it from both of his parents that he was putting them in his sock josh hart was eating warm foot mic nights throughout the day yeah foot footy and the colors getting on your leg and your foot sticky when he was like you know he was 15 year old boy no sweet and salty goes together nicely yeah just so we could i don't think he was i don't think he was like walking on them my guess is my guess i i actually didn't go into this detail terrible reporting honestly come on yeah i should have asked what kind of socks he wore now that i think about i feel a tall athletic you like and then right in the side yeah yeah they were leg mike and ike's i think they were like calf mike and ike's probably but if they were like over the knee just to maximize the number of mike and ike's you can take with compression mike and ike's keep them in there keep them locked in yeah i don't i don't i don't think they were like in this because the whole point was he had to be able to reach in to sneak them you know so i'm right i don't think he's gonna lose socks i'm gonna give i'm gonna give josh hart so much credit and say they weren't ankle socks okay or even just like normal giving him the dignity socks i'm gonna pretend like he was just like a soccer player without the shin guards on the eve of the finals we're going to give him this one win yes we're gonna give him we're gonna give him this win at least now i'm just gonna say like i think i think they were probably leg mike and ike's oh that's that's incredible wow well also on the eve of the finals should we oh yes do we think we should do that yes one one quick oh yes go yes um what was i gonna say i don't know i had one um oh yes two question for each of you jared is there any weird one b story that even approaches mike and ike territory oh god i mean he dribbled a basketball up a mountain in china like you know there's that how can you top that yeah i mean the weirdest one is that he always has a different book every single day and unlike lebron he actually has a bookmark somewhere in the middle of the book what is he reading right now during the finals he was reading animal farm during the second rounds whoa terrifying i know well why do you think he elbowed nazarene in the face right he was he had to establish dominance right um i don't i don't know what the current book is but i'm guessing it's probably art of war by sun tzu at this point or that sounds right yeah yeah yeah yeah um and then fred an actual title when you wrote your book yes i wouldn't know just the titles titles i only know titles yeah um last year we talked about this on the show we talked about this with you the vibes between the knicks and the eastern conference finals were weird you wrote an amazing story about how they were basically just like all annoyed with each other how did they fix that it's a great question is that in your book i mean it look locker room dynamics and and human interactions are the whole book yeah uh and and sock mike and x uh that's it how did they fix it i think they just kind of all came together realizing that like i think before i became a reporter it's a good question before i became a reporter here we go where are we going we got it and it's fred ted talk this is why you only this is why you only read the titles of my books yeah so before i became a reporter i kind of always thought that if you're a bad locker room or you're someone who's bad in a locker room or whatever else it's it's super binary like it's because this person's a jerk and thus they are bad in the locker room this person's a good person and thus they are good in the locker room and it's not like that and i think what happened last year was it was a bunch of guys who are generally like good people good locker room guys and they just weren't as connected as the team from a couple of years ago and i think once they got so close last year they got to a point where they were like we are so close to this thing let's not screw this up yeah like let us not screw this thing up they have a different sort of focus as a team this year that is so different from what it was last year and i don't even mean that in a cliche way yeah you can see it when they play on the court yeah like watch when the spurs come out and run in action you'll see all five guys on the court pointing to all five necks pointing to each other screaming out whatever the play is whatever the action is where one guy's going to go you'll see all five guys doing it and last year there was so much more disconnected in that aspect so i think that familiarity has kind of brought them together and then they've kind of seen oh whoa this is working yeah yeah this is really working and then all of a sudden that just you know that just starts to snowball right yeah you're like oh man like everybody this is working for everybody just keep going and they're also just really talented yeah yeah they're just really they're really good like they're just a bunch of really good basketball players well we are gonna ask each of you to please draw who you don't tell no words get you a nice piece of pictures only who you think is going to be the mv p of the final try to put my butt down to do this yeah unfortunately you may have that was impressive arm strength get you guys some beds yeah we've got markers for you i've been doing i've been doing you guys have really mastered the audio medium look it's what everyone wants it's on youtube for sharpies and paper we're gonna narrate what you guys how am i supposed to shade with this oh well maybe don't shade this is a line drawing friend just wait around okay she's got it no man for those listening on audio here if you would like to two thinnies madeline just pulled a thin sharpie out from under the chair remind me what's the assignment again uh draw who you think will be the mvp with no letters or numbers yeah and in the meantime i'll just look at charlotte and i am going to talk about observing oh wow okay so fred's really going for it this is for our audio listeners only yeah fred is um oh he's doing like a full-on this looks like this is like the horror scene in widow's bay where she realizes the book is cursed the hair on fred's kind of looks like the ring i think i know who it is now i mean keep going fred but okay oh jared is taking a more no it's an interpretive approach he has drawn an alien looks kind of um like a nickelodeon character yeah actually you know what i would actually say more cartoon network and it says take me to no words no words well but it's fine it's fine it's fine we'll live listen i can't remember the whole assignment take me to your leader i'm guessing and and we're gonna take a flyer and say that this is victor webb and yama i'm gonna guess okay i just want to say can you please this this is not supposed to look inappropriate okay well let's see is that jesus in a skirt no it's brunson i think it's jalen brunson but it's supposed to be it's supposed to be brunson's snapping his his his head back oh so there's movement there's motion there's motion it's supposed to be i'm snacking snapping his head back it's the plots of hereditary truly but i i'm gonna have nightmares about that but thank you fred i like horrifying you added his headband where he wears it yeah this is a man who has observed the next book for a long time jared this is a very talented beautiful drawing and i would like you both to sign it please yes of course sign your work wow thank you both so much this was special fabulous this was this was really special an incredible experience oh that's so nice are you practicing for your book friend practicing to sign your book wow jared age five i did good you did amazing you both did amazing mom's proud we're gonna put it on the fridge we are we're gonna put it in we're gonna frame it it'll be in the studio yep um thank you both uh i really have many more questions for you but we have to talk to other people which we're also very excited about yes but now you have to leave you have to leave all right good times guys all right thank you bye gary thank you so much for joining us we are thrilled to be joined by the nba legend gary payton nine-time all-star three-time finals appearances two olympic gold medals and two gold medals and two gold medals and two gold medals and two gold medals your nickname the glove yes we love it uh truly an honor to have you on our show thank you so much it's honor to be here thank you guys for having me we on the sports gossip show we talk a lot about vibes and off the field narratives how are you feeling about both of these teams spurs and the knicks going into the finals do you feel like they have the same type of vibe same team chemistry or do you feel like their vibes are completely different i think it's different i think a young team in san antonio where they got a superstar that's up and coming and he's probably the face of the nba right now and it's going to be a face of the nba for a long period of time and i think the knicks who are got to prove something they haven't been they haven't been to the nba finals in a long period of time a lot of people love the knicks it's always drama that's you know media central yeah that's what it is they want them to win to do what they got to do i think both of these teams are different i think you got a young team that's when they beat Oklahoma, and now they're trying to prove something and go out, and I got a name a Knicks team that's kind of a veteran type, almost a veteran type of team, and they want to prove it. I'm the big brother, so I got to beat you, the little brother. And I think that's what it's going to be like. And I think whoever wins on the first person's court is going to probably win this finals. Are you close with any of the players on either of these teams, or have you mentored any of them? No, not really. I haven't been. Bronson, I know I played with his father. I played against his father a long period of time. He's in my era. And, you know, a lot of these kids, man, you know, they were my son. My son is in the NBA, and they're all around. I see them a lot around that, and that's most of the time I've seen. Towns is probably the only one that I'll probably say that I've been around a little bit. I did a couple of things with him during the offseason, but he's the one. What did you do with him during the offseason? Well, we did a commercial, me, him, and Chad. What was the commercial? Yeah, we did a commercial in L.A. What was it for? Do you remember? And I think it was for, you remember when you had the buses and they was doing all the top 75 things and all that stuff and they came out and chet was out there and he was being a big part of all of that and we did we did some stuff with him okay i gotta ask a question about commercials actually okay as an athlete you know you're you're skilled in the sport you know but acting is a different skill did you do you take acting classes before you start appearing in commercials as a professional i did you know you i had an acting coach you know so they can tell you what it is and we are in a lot of movies yeah remember i was like mike eddie yeah i did a lot of little movies here and there but you have to act because you got to understand because with eddie i had to stay on the set for almost six months wow yeah because but then i i didn't want to do it anymore so they cut it down i had a bigger role during that time and then i told them to just give me a little role yeah at the at the um at the playground so it was you gotta have a mindset and you gotta be able to deal with it to be in a movie and i was like yeah i'm gonna do it and i'm gonna do it and i'm gonna do it and i'm gonna yeah yeah um gary correct me if i'm wrong but you you have said um that you will only have your jersey number retired if it's with the seattle supersonic absolutely we talk a lot on this show about how sports teams are companies leagues are companies and like your employer is not your friend necessarily right how did you feel when the sonics i feel like you you more than anyone may understand like the how the business side of the league and the emotional side of the league connect to each other well it took me a while to figure out how to do it and then i was like sold out because we really wasn't supposed to lose our team yeah we had a bad ownership at the time and then what Bennett did who owns Oklahoma uh uh Oklahoma uh Thunder he just did what he was supposed to do he came in he bought a team and he moved it to his team right he moved his thing you remember they had hosted the New Orleans during you remember when the when the hurricane came yeah New Orleans stayed there for a year or so or two and then he was building all of this and then he seen how much you know fanfare he got and he said hey I think I can get this and he and he he took opportunity he took a team that was struggling yeah financially and then he went and moved in and bought it right and then he moved it you know and so good thing that we got a great uh commissioner now and Adam Silver that wants us to come back and give us an opportunity and got the governors to vote for it and see that we could come back so now it's great for me because that's my second home they drafted me I was there for 13 14 years and my my kids were born there right so that's what it is about that and I don't hate them about that this is a business yes and people better understand that I don't care what nobody say it's a business it's always going to change so you got to just ride with it and do it and I'm just so happy and fortunate that we're going to get a chance to get our Seattle team back will you will you be the the mascot like what are you gonna right I'm gonna be I'm gonna be really involved with it yeah well you know me and Sean we're trying to come back and do a lot of things the group that's gonna get it we're big with them they're very good owners you know what I'm saying so you know they own the Krakens so it's great for that so we're we're good with what's going to be happening I'm very happy with who's going to have it yeah because they are a good owner group that knows how to run a organization yeah and I'm very happy with it we talk a lot on the show that your companies are not your friends yeah they're not you know they're not for players you know they're not for players what is the hardest part about being a professional athlete being traded you know it's like you could be traded overnight to a city that that you don't want you don't want to go to you might have kids they're in school what is that like as a player that's hard you know what I'm saying and let me tell you about my my kids when we we were there for 13 years and you're used to something that's going every day every day every day and your father is is the biggest thing in that city at the end get traded and move and you got friends you got a lot of friends you got a lot of history at that thing and I took my kids away from it when we went to I didn't take them away from Milwaukee because he was doing when I went to Milwaukee was doing this during the middle of the season at the end of the year I didn't want to take them out of school but then the next year they had to move to L.A and we went to the Lakers and then at that point I had decided that you know what I'm not going to put my my bags in one one city yeah because they're not loyal like me because they're like that and I want to move on I want to win a championship and then I want to leave it alone so that my kids can stay so I decided to leave my kids where they were yeah let them stay where they wanted to be and let them have a friends and do the things that they had to do and I move and we we worked it out you know you come up three times a month and on the weekends when you get out of school on Fridays and then go back Saturday Sunday night and and it worked for me for a while and and I just think that it's hard it's very very hard to do that but I worked it out yeah speaking of L.A I saw a clip Gary where you said that you think if LeBron leaves L.A the one place he might end up is San Francisco Golden State were you saying that because you want him to play with your son instead of his son because Gary Payton Jr is on the board are you trying to get LeBron away from Ronnie well let me tell you it's just it makes common sense you know what I'm saying because him and him and um him and Steph is very very close friends it doesn't matter if my son was on there or not I know I'm giving you a hard time I know I think but it'll be great I love to see him every day every day because I'm there I mean I'm in the base I see the games all the time so you know I love it it would be good and you gotta understand I raised LeBron you know I got him to go me and him had the same um agents for a long time he came out and we had the same deal I introduced him to the good ones yeah he went with them and we were we were we were together for a long period of time so he's like a little brother to me I would love to have him them there but I just I just don't see it yeah I just don't see it I don't think his wife wants there his daughter is is very good and and big in in L.A yeah you know volleyball she's very big in that I don't think he wants to remove and be like that and I don't think he wants to be separated from him so I think he'll he'll do whatever it takes to stay in L.A yeah wow what is it like having a son do the same thing as his father could be any but I mean is he like dad leave me alone I don't want your advice or does he take your advice that's how it is yeah yeah you know what I'm saying I gave my son a a hard time coming up growing up I didn't I told him he wasn't nothing he wasn't it wasn't who he was gonna be he'll never be like me or nothing like that I gave him a very hard time and that was hard love because that's the way I got it from my dad yeah but I took it in a different way yeah I took it in a different way to show my dad up to make sure that I understand and let you hey ha ha ha you told me I wasn't gonna be like this but look what I am now yeah so my son didn't take it that way you know what I'm saying and he went through a rough road and now when he got into the pros in his first six years was very rough you know he's in the G League yeah he went to different teams and then all of a sudden he caught on with the Golden State Warriors and he's been there ever since and this is going to be his 11th year in the pros wow so it's going to be a great thing that he did but the one thing that I love about my son they don't talk to about basketball when people come up to me they talk about how good of a person he is that's the most most most blessing thing and most glad thing that I ever see in in people when they talk about how good my son is and how how blessing humbled he is and that's the best thing that I can do so now I go to games and everybody see me I don't say anything yeah and when I don't say anything now he stands up you see they don't want me to call him what should I do and I and I just look at him and I just say calm down yeah be yourself yes he's done what you had to do now and just be humble with it and and he's been he's been really well with it so yeah wow that's so sweet um Gary we ask every guest this and then we'll promise we'll let you go what is your favorite sports gossip story of all time and any off the field story can be in any sport could be any any type of story could be something or what's the strangest thing you heard about yourself that may not have been true well how mean I was how mean person I am people didn't know me they knew me from basketball that's my job and that's what I made a mark at is being hard talking trash and doing things I really didn't care about you on the basketball court I've once told somebody if my mom played against me on that's where I would treat her bad I would have treated her back because she shouldn't have never she shouldn't have never came up and competed against me right that ain't what it that's what i was built like and that's just the way it is and off the court i'm the sweetest person yeah i like i like people i like laughing i like having fun and i just don't like people to to to perceive me like that i don't want that and like i just told you about my son i don't want people to perceive us like that we're we're we're we're great people i treat people the same way they wanted i wanted to be treated yeah that's just the way it is with kids i cannot see 30 kids and sign one kid autograph and walk away i have to stay there and sign all 30 autographs because these kids are look up to me they be like i seen you since i was little i seen you since i was born they show me pictures of when they was babies and i'm signing their things and they have that type of stuff so i'm just a person like that i just i have to be that way yeah and and that's the way because i don't know who life i'm gonna change yeah a lot of people come up to me and say you changed my life i watched you do this and i watched you do that and it makes me makes me feel a little bit different when i do that and i hate people to say that i'm mean and do this and you didn't do this well no i probably was having a bad day at the time and i'm very sorry about that but that's just not the way i am yeah wow gary speaking of having fun i have one last oh yes okay we have a little arts and crafts related to the finals and i can't draw i can't even see in the previous better okay you can pick the sharpie size okay but can you draw your prediction for who the nba finals mvp will be just a little interpretive drawing see it'd be a stick figure don't tell us just with a little picture no words could be a shape the floor is yours the markers are yours good i'm gonna see if y'all know who this is okay okay gary oh yeah he's got i think i know already oh yeah show the camera that is a long torso it's crazy gary that's crazy there it is would you do us a favor would you autograph that please you gotta give us an unbelievable i might need that on a shirt yeah no you might need that on a shirt we'll send you this is merch this is merch now gary thank you so much no problem this was unbelievable thank you so much well folks we forgot to record an outro but this is going to be our outro and our lovely editor micah said to us so how how should i end each episode and we said oh we will record um an outro on our the phone and so that's what we're doing so thank you we hope you enjoyed this episode be sure to tune in later this week for another very fun episode from podcast row yes uh next week i mean it's friday it's been a long day on friday we've got deandre jordan we have uh will reeve from good morning america and we have um monty mccutchen to talk about being a ref oh deandre jordan obviously amazing nba player you guys are gonna love it if you like this episode wait till that one watch out okay okay bye Bye.