The Two Faces of Todd Winkler

Ever find yourself standing in front of your closet having a full-blown style spiral? You know the feeling. Staring at a rack of clothes, wondering if wide-leg jeans are actually worth the hype, whether an outfit is truly work-appropriate, or why finding a pair of pants that fits properly feels like a full-time job. You do not have to navigate it alone anymore because Maurice's is essentially that stylish friend in your group chat who always knows what looks good on you. Way back in 1931, their founder chose to focus on real women living real lives rather than chasing fashion trends, and that care still shines through today. Whether you're running out the door for coffee, handling school pickup, or getting dressed for a Saturday night wedding, Maurice's delivers versatile, approachable style and inclusive sizing that fits you perfectly every single time. Plus, with over 800 stores nationwide and an incredible website, you can pop into any store for free. personalized fit advice and outfit inspiration from their in-store stylist without needing an appointment. Next time you need a second opinion, head to Maurice's and walk out feeling effortless, comfortable, and completely confident. Use code 48HRS for an extra 10% off your total purchase at maurices.com. A trucker merges onto the I-10 in New Orleans. He checks his mirrors. The lane is clear. And then, boom, impact. A pickup truck seemingly out of nowhere. Scrapes down the side of his 18-wheeler. Multiple passengers inside. One man flees the scene. And the driver of the pickup, he doesn't seem all that upset. It didn't feel like a regular accident, because it wasn't. Across the city, truckers were getting sideswiped, all on the same stretch of the same freeway. And behind most of the cases was one personal injury lawyer, a Hollywood stuntwoman turned attorney named Vanessa. This podcast is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences, and a scheme that ends in betrayal and murder. Listen to Over My Dead Body, Operation Sideswipe, wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a case about a mastermind, a manipulator, a murderer. You are not samurai. You do not speak truth. You only want to destroy. You're no pushover. It's probably the strangest episode I've seen in a courtroom in my experience. I'm going to show you what this crime scene looked like. This defendant takes a pair of scissors, and he goes into that room, and he attacks her. This is a case about Todd Winkler and how he brutally murdered Rachel Marie Winkler, his wife, mother of his three small children. Rachel was lovely. She loved life. Rachel loved life. She was beautiful and loving. She was an amazing person. She was an angel. Todd Winkler is a graduate of the Air Force Academy. He's an Air Force fighter pilot who's been stationed internationally. He's a wealthy pharmaceutical executive. Comes across as very friendly, jogging around the neighborhood with his small children. As time progressed, did she keep you up with what was going on with your marriage? Not really. I could tell they weren't happy. The last thing she ever said to me was, "I've realized that Todd's a pathological liar, Brandy." I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around what happened. We had a fight, and she turns around, she's coming at me with a V of scissors, and I thought, I got a hold of them. We had a struggle. He wants you to believe that there's some big, massive struggle where they're flipping and they're turning. Once I started to get the upper hand, I just, I pushed the scissors in as far as I could. She's in the corner there, and he lays there on top of her while she slowly dies. We're all watching the prosecutor. And then there is this sort of rumbling, weird noise. And then Todd Winkler is erupting. You are not samurai. Stop. Stop. Stop. You're not Bushido. And it mesmerizes the courtroom and it freezes everything. Stop. Stop. Is this an act? If it was, it was a pretty good one. This explosion fits in with a narrative of this is a guy with multiple psychiatric episodes. You believe that he is suffering from a disorder, that he's not a cold-blooded killer. Right. Do you think he meant to kill his wife? In a sense, he did. Do you think he's guilty of murder? No, I don't. You're not Bushido! He's not crazy. Todd Winkler is a cold-blooded killer. And Todd Winkler has killed before. We'll be right back. The people who live in Cameron Park, California, just east of Sacramento, know how to put on a show. It's a chance to showcase their neighborhood, raise money for charity, and show off some adults. Todd Winkler is a man who's been in the business for over a decade. It's a unique community for people who like to fly. Pilot Phil Albee has lived in Cameron Park for 10 years. Well, an outsider might be surprised when he first comes in. The cars and the airplanes share the same streets for taxiing or for driving. They're going to find that people have airplanes sitting out in front of their house instead of their cars. Todd and Rachel Winkler fit right in here. Todd, the former fighter pilot, loved to fly. And the couple apparently could afford the $860,000 house now that he was a successful pharmaceutical executive. They married just weeks after they met. A romantic might think it was love at first sight. I didn't like it. It seemed very strange. But Rachel's father, Don Hatfield, isn't that romantic. One lady that had dated Todd was begging, begging Rachel not to do it, told me to try to stop her. One of Todd's ex-girlfriends told you to stop the marriage? Not let it happen. Please do not do this. Why? What did she say? Well, she saw some things in Todd that were somewhat egocentric. So you took her advice and said to your daughter what? Why are you doing this so fast? We don't know this guy. This doesn't seem like a good idea. And what did she say? Dad, I know what I'm doing. I know what I want to do. And he's a family man. He's a successful businessman. She was set on doing it. And Todd could be charming. Well, do you believe she loved him? At some point, yes, I do. In time, Todd also charmed his father-in-law. Because he seemed like a fun guy, and he always was courteous, kind, and respectful of me. Todd and Rachel soon had three children, Eva, the oldest, Ariel, and Alex, the youngest. With Todd Winkler behind bars awaiting trial for their mother's murder, To Papa from your kids. They are being raised by their grandfather. That's my dessert. How hard was it for you, Don Hatfield, supposed to be retired, to all of a sudden, like that, take on the responsibility for three children? Really hard. I mean, it would be like saying, how am I going to get in shape for this marathon in the next year? Got to wash his hands here. I'm going to do it, but, boy, it's going to be hard. Do the kids ask about their mother? Do they know what happened? Yeah. Put your jammies on. Eva. I mean, this is after a couple of weeks after being with her and having her in this incredible voice say, Mommy, don't leave me. Mommy, don't leave me. It really got to me. I mean, I have never forgotten it. It's small comfort, but Rachel's memory lives on in dozens of Don Hatfield's paintings. She had such an exquisite beauty to her. He's a renowned Impressionist artist, and his daughter was his muse. It's what I felt about her as my little girl, one of the major joys of my life, that, you know, when I painted her face, I painted better. Want to go over there? Yeah. Let's go over there. But in the years after marrying Todd, Rachel seemed to lose that special quality her father had captured on canvas, according to her close friend, Brandy Stanley. - The light in her eyes seemed To be dimming. If I were to ask her, how are things with Todd? Rather than saying, oh, they're great, we're happy, she would say things like, it's okay, I'll be fine. Hardly a ringing endorsement of a marriage. Right. Basically, she told me that she lived much worse off than anyone that she knew, but her husband made more money than most people she knew. What did you make of that? I kind of assumed maybe that they had acquired a lot of debt. Rachel took a job as office manager at the Cameron Air Park. It was a struggle to work and take care of the children. Todd was away all week at his job near San Francisco, and Rachel complained that he had abandoned the renovations they had started in their home. She called it a danger zone or a biohazard because there was nothing finished, and the outside looked well-groomed and clean, but inside it was rugs, and tile, and stacks of wood. Todd's charm was wearing off, and Rachel was telling Brandy all about it in emails. Todd values experiences over relationships. He wants a teammate more than a soulmate. Rachel's messages became more ominous in the months leading up to her death. I fell in love with a creep, which serves me right. She had decided to get a divorce, and then there was that final chilling phone call. Actually, the last thing she ever said to me was, I've realized that Todd's a pathological liar, Brandy. And then she ended the phone call pretty quickly and said she'd call me later, and later never came. 911, what's your emergency? I'm calling to report a fatality. On the morning of February 27th, 2012, police received a 911 call from Winkler's neighbor, a lawyer. Winkler had just called him and told him that Rachel was dead. When sheriff's deputies arrived at the scene, they recorded this audio of Todd Winkler surrendering. Winkler told them where they could find Rachel's body. So where is your wife? When you enter the house, you turn to the right. The first bedroom on your right. And you're sure she's dead? I'm positive. How can you be, how are you sure? No pulse, no breathing. And Winkler knew how Rachel died. He waived his rights and spoke to investigators for more than an hour without asking for a lawyer. He told them he and Rachel were having an argument over custody of the children. He said he hit her in anger and was apologizing when she died. And she came at him with those scissors. It was a long, long, long protracted struggle. She's a very strong girl. She's an extremely strong girl. She's in much better shape than me. Todd Winkler claims he was fighting for his life. It was a tell-a-killer-be-killed kind of situation. But there were problems with his story almost immediately. Find the answers you're searching for at snhu.edu slash 48 hours. You know how many people talk about a capsule wardrobe for clothes? Jenny Bird does that for jewelry. They've basically redefined how to accessorize by creating the ultimate jewelry capsule. Instead of a box full of random items saving themselves for special occasions, Jenny Bird makes elevated essential pieces, from earrings to necklaces, that you'll actually reach for every single day. And if you wake up early like me, you know how great it is to have anything that makes your morning routine easier. Jenny Bird can do just that because their pieces are so versatile that you can mix and match without overthinking your look. Every time you wear yours, be prepared for someone to ask where you got it. And you'll love that you're not constantly re-buying trendy accessories every season. These staples just work with everything in your closet. Getting dressed is just so much easier when your accessories are in your closet. Are this seamless? Plus, Jenny Bird pieces look and feel more expensive than they are. Get a free gift with your first Jenny Bird order when you shop at jenny-bird.com. James White is a former Marine who served in Desert Storm. He's also a gun enthusiast. And a martial artist. A tough guy who gets a little mushy when he talks about Rachel Winkler, the woman he calls the love of his life. She had a beautiful smile. She had a magnetic personality. And she was just absolutely perfectly nice. How often do you think of her these days? Every moment of every day. He still listens to her phone messages. I love you. Take care. Bye. James and Rachel met in September of 2009 when Rachel started managing the airpark. So, you worked here? You worked at this little airport? Yes, sir. What did you do? Whatever Rachel needed me to do. A couple times I repainted lines, fixed the roof. Her marriage to Todd was already on the rocks and within months, she and James began an affair. Did she seem different? She seemed happier. Rachel confided in her close friend Brandy Stanley, that she had fallen in love, but felt guilty about getting divorced. She wanted to do right by God and stay married, but she didn't know if that was something she could actually do. Winkler found out about the affair and by all accounts was trying to win back his wife. But Rachel seemed to know a side of him that frightened her. She says, "If anything ever happens to me, I want you to look at Todd. And I want you to look at my kids when they get older and tell them how much I love them." Wait a minute, she told you if something happened to her? To look at Todd. When deputies arrived, they detained a man near the front porch. The morning of February 27th, 2012, no one had to look very far after Todd Winkler admitted stabbing Rachel to death. And then they'll take you to the jail, okay? All right, thank you. Am I under arrest? Yes. Okay. After Winkler told police the detailed story of a life or death affair, and the child's death struggle over those scissors, prosecutor Lissette Suter started cutting it apart. Did she turn to us? She's coming at me with a V of scissors. Uh-huh. So Todd Winkler says that he was having an argument with his wife and she turned, right, and came at him with a pair of scissors open like this. And you're smiling. Why? It's ridiculous. Who comes at somebody with scissors that way? And I'm like, "Why did you come at me with a pair of scissors?" This wasn't a fight. The only struggle would have been her trying to defend herself as he's attacking her. Did she have a chance? She had no chance. She was 110 pounds, 5'3". He is over 240, over double her body weight. So if this was not a case of self-defense, why would Todd Winkler decide to kill his wife that night? He had known about the affair with James for well over a year. She told a friend of hers that day that she had made her final decision and she was leaving him. Rachel's father believes Winkler killed his wife because she knew his secrets. He wanted to shut her up. She had the goods on him. She could probably make his life very difficult. It's not clear exactly how many secrets Rachel knew, but Winkler had a history of bizarre, possibly psychiatric episodes. This is a very disturbed individual. Peter Hecht is a reporter with the Sacramento Bee and a CBS News consultant. It turns out Winkler's history of strange outbursts dates back to his time in the Air Force. He was stationed in the Far East with a squadron known as the Fighting Samurai. Winkler seemed to develop an obsession. He sees himself in the image of the Samurai. You're no Bushido! Stop. Stop. Loosely translated, Bushido is the Samurai Code of Honor. And while he was still in the military, Winkler apparently took great offense when he was caught shoplifting from the PA. Winkler apparently took great offense when he was caught shoplifting from the PA. And he erupts, screaming. He screams at his commanding officer. what happened to him. He lands in a psychiatric care in an army hospital in Hawaii. They ultimately let him go on a 50% psychiatric disability. Years later, in the months before he killed Rachel, Winkler's behavior was getting more erratic and more frightening to her. He was once again taken to a hospital, apparently suffering from some sort of nervous breakdown, after becoming enraged at his employer, a large pharmaceutical company. And he claimed that he had no sleep and they were pushing him too hard. But Rachel reportedly told friends it was all an act. He called her and told her that he faked it because he wanted to sue his company. But it was another scheme of Winkler's that, according to her father, had Rachel especially alarmed. He says Winkler wanted to collect insurance money by staging a car crash. He suggested to Rachel staging an accident where a car goes off a cliff. Bingo. That idea was so frightening because it was so familiar. Todd Winkler had been married before and Rachel knew his previous wife, Catherine, was killed in a fiery car crash off a mountainside in Georgia. And Winkler said it was an accident. It was sort of like a light bulb off in her head. And she realized, wow, this is a very scary man and I'm very afraid of him. I'm thinking she's got to get out of there. And Don Hatfield remembered something else his daughter had recently told him. Rachel found a box of ashes that were the ashes of his previous wife. Rachel said, I hope I never become ashes. And he said, well, just don't ever make me mad. What do you believe she thought he was capable of? Killing. Murder. Deep down, she knew that. The last day I saw her, she said, I don't feel comfortable with Todd in the house anymore. And I'm not going to stay with him when he comes home on the weekends. I said, OK, stay with me and bring the kids. And how soon after that did she die? The next morning, I got the call. Now, Todd Winkler was twice a widower. Was he merely unlucky? What are the chances that this could just be a fluke? Well, someone who wins the lottery once is envied. Someone who wins the lottery twice is investigated. We go back to this spot all the time. Back in September 1999, Michael Hodnett and Woody DePue were camping in Georgia's remote Chattahoochee National Forest when they were awakened in the middle of the night. We heard someone running through our campsite yelling, help, help, help, help. There was a guy that was saying his wife is dead. It was Todd Winkler, and he said he had just survived a terrible accident, that his wife had driven their truck off a dirt road and plunged down a steep mountainside. He said he was ejected on the way down. His voice was just heartbroken, help, help kind of sound. The campers immediately set out to see if Winkler's wife could still be alive. Catherine was Todd's previous wife. She and her sister, Christina Carlisle, were military brats. She was easy on the eyes and had a nice personality, so she didn't have problems meeting guys. At the time that she met Todd, she was actually dating another pilot. Catherine was 23, and just like Rachel, she was a military pilot. She was a military pilot. She dated Todd just very briefly before marrying him. Cathy was sort of glowing, you know. I think he swept her off her feet, and he was going to be stationed over in Japan and wanted to take her with him. She stood by her husband when he had that mental breakdown that landed him in the hospital in Hawaii. She really wanted him to get therapy, and Todd was not interested in that. So she was concerned about that. They eventually settled in Georgia, where Winkler was starting his own internet business. They were together for eight years when they went camping in 1999, and Todd Winkler turned to those strangers for help. I knew that if we're going to save this girl, we got to get to the truck. Hodnett and DePue soon learned how tough their rescue mission would be. When we came around the corner, the whole side of the mountain was on fire, still, they raced down the hill towards the burning wreck, 200 feet below, while, they say, Winkler waited by the road. I mean, you can see the steepness of it. It's very steep. It's so steep that when they went back there with 48 hours, they used ropes. We have to use this 200-foot rappelling rope to hold us up. Just to stay in place. You can see the tree over here where the truck came to a stop right here, facing down on it. It's on its side where the wheel's kind of in that direction. Catherine Winkler never had a chance. I knew that there was no saving her. I'm picturing the truck sitting on its side in flames right now. That's what I see right now. Winkler told Hodnett and DePue that he was thrown from the truck when it careened down the hill. He searched for his wife and then scrambled up the embankment. I just don't see how someone. Someone could be ejected with no injury. It just doesn't seem like he would not be hurt. And why, they wondered, did it take Winkler so long to ask for help? With the vehicle being surrounded by flames that are 18, 20 foot tall, I would have said the vehicle would have had easily been on fire for an hour. Rick Johnson, who was then a deputy sheriff, was the first cop on the scene. There was two persons involved in the accident. One was at the top. One was at the top of the mountain and one was at the bottom of the mountain. One was in the vehicle, burned, and the other was at the top of the mountain without a scratch on him. Winkler told him that Catherine had been speeding to the hospital because he needed medical help. He'd had an allergic reaction to an insect bite. But Johnson wrote in his report, he never showed us any bite. Do you believe he was bitten by a bug? No, sir. I don't believe he was bitten by anything. Like the campers, Johnson felt Winkler's story did not add up. Was he moving okay? He was moving fine. Johnson followed procedure and handed off the case to more seasoned investigators. They said Winkler was emotional and seemed to buy into his story. And they later noted that he had a knee injury and a large scrape and bruise on his arm. So you are certain that he had no bruises, no scratches, nothing on his body when you first saw him that night? Yes, sir. I'm certain that nothing was wrong with him. Police had allowed Winkler to return to his campsite to collect his belongings. He went without the police. And that's where Johnson believes he got those injuries. Do you think he did it to himself? I think he's self-awesome, self-inflicted. Catherine's autopsy showed she died from soot and smoke inhalation and thermal burns. Her body was. 100% charred. But the pathologist found no evidence of foul play. So Catherine Winkler's death to this day is officially considered an accident. My questions I have are. Did she suffer? Was she in a lot of pain when she passed? Catherine's sister, Christina, says she had sensed that something had soured in her sister's marriage. And Todd collected nearly $1.2 million in life insurance. And then in 2012, when she learned Rachel was also dead, Christina became convinced that Todd Winkler got away with murder. Perhaps if the investigation in Georgia had been thorough, that maybe Rachel would not have died. Looking back, Rick Johnson wishes he'd done more. If you've got that feeling that it ain't right, it ain't right. Do you feel guilt? I feel something. I guess it might be a little guilt. California prosecutor Lissette Souter understands that. I think anybody would feel a sense of, wow, had we put this together or known what we know now then, Rachel Winkler wouldn't be dead. We could have. We could have saved a life. But no, he shouldn't feel guilty. As I was saying, the defendant. But she does want a jury to hear the details of Catherine's death as they hear the details of Rachel's at Todd Winkler's murder trial. Let's be honest. Everyone hates fees, right? That's where Chime comes in. Chime is completely changing the way that people manage their money. Unlike traditional banks, that often pile on hidden charges, Chime offers fee-free banking with no overtime. draft fees, no monthly maintenance fees, and no minimum balance requirements. You actually get rewarded for everyday spending, earning 5% cash back in a category of your choice, like gas or groceries, all while building your credit without a credit check. And SpotMe has your back with up to $200 in fee-free overdraft protection when life gets expensive. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to Chime.com slash 48 hours. That is Chime.com slash 48 hours. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. Afternoon glare totally ruined my watch party for the big game. That's when my buddy recommended Chime.com slash 48 hours. Sign up now. With custom window treatments made to fit your style, space, and budget, customers who shop at Blinds.com experienced overwhelming satisfaction. Side effects may include a fuller, deeper night's sleep and the sudden urge to host the watch party again. Blinds.com isn't a medication, but it can improve how you feel about your home. Visit Blinds.com to order your free samples today. Do you ever wish you could ask nosy questions about people's money? I have $729.71. It's in my bank account. We bought, you know, a $1.3 million house on a $350,000 income. On the podcast, What We Spend, we ask those questions. It's a show about money and all the feelings that come with spending it. I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life. Listen to What We Spend, an Odyssey original, available now wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is a case about a mastermind, a manipulator, and how he brutally murdered Rachel Marie Winkler. Prosecutor Lissette Souter had a lot of material to work with when the Todd Winkler murder trial opened in September 2014. I'm Detective Hedges. A lot of it came from Winkler himself. Winkler himself, who talked to detectives for more than an hour after killing his wife. Once I, you know, started to get the upper hand, I pushed the scissors in as far as I could. Some of Souter's best material has nothing to do with Rachel's death. Winkler has said that was self-defense. Ladies and gentlemen, keep an open mind. But the judge allowed Souter to tell the jury the suspicious circumstances surrounding the death of Winkler. Winkler's previous wife. There was an accident. The only witness was this defendant. So defense attorney David Weiner had his hands full. What are the chances that one man would have two wives die? Is this guy just really unlucky, or is there something more to it? Well, I think that's just life. Your explanation basically boils down to stuff happens. It does. Life goes on. Life happens. Catherine Winkler. Souter's death in Georgia is one of the first things Souter talks about to the jury. She's found burned to death down a steep embankment where the car went. And the defendant is very fine with just a few minor scratches on him. And that's when things got a little hairy. You are not samurai. You are no Bushido. You are no Bushido. What happened that first day when your client had his outburst? I'm not sure. I'll tell you one thing. That was not planned. I was looking at him in the eyes through the whole thing. To me, it was incredibly fake. Stop. Stop. Souter has already said she believes faking illness is part of Winkler's M.O. And she says he hasn't just faked mental illness. To get special treatment at work, he's also claimed over the years that he had cancer. And not just that. Not just once. He shaved his head and he even, I think, shaved his eyebrows. Did he have cancer? He did not. And he did it again? He did a different type of, faked a different type of cancer at a different job. Look at all the different lies. So, she says, it's not so hard to believe that Winkler is lying about defending himself against his 110-pound wife that morning in February 2012. What do you believe happened in that bedroom early that morning? He took a pair of scissors and he went in there while she was asleep. Souter says Winkler stabbed Rachel and left her for dead. But Rachel wasn't dead. I got up and got out of the room and ran to my car. By Winkler's own account, he came back, this time wearing a motorcycle jacket for protection. I tripped and fell forward when I rushed into the room. She kicked me in the face and then we got into another subsequent struggle. He comes back and now he makes his decision that he is going to kill her. He takes those scissors and this ex-fighter pilot jams them into her neck and he sits there and lays there on top of her while she slowly dies. After he killed Rachel, Souter said Winkler spent more than six hours cleaning up the and feeding the kids who were in the house the whole time. After that, Souter says, the evidence shows he inflicted these wounds on himself. If he were truly injured before, then there would have been blood. He was touching baby bottles. He was touching a Froot Loop type of cereal for the children. He was touching their bowls. There is no blood anywhere in the kitchen area on any of those items. But if Todd Winkler is a criminal mastermind, as Souter has argued, Winkler's attorney, David Weiner, says he sure didn't act like one. Sits down right away with law enforcement officers. You got the scissors away from her. What were you doing with those at the time? Striking her. I mean, he's saying things that do not help him. He is just, he's bearing, bearing it all. At trial, Winkler took. The judge wouldn't allow cameras to record any testimony. But Winkler made a damaging admission that he wanted Rachel to die. I believe that he helped the prosecution. To have a complete record of this trial. Winkler's biggest problem was himself. His admission that he didn't call anyone for six hours. I shut the door to Rachel's room and just tried to make the house not look. Like a bloody scene. And most chilling, his own account of what Rachel said just before he killed her. She was saying, we'll resolve this, we'll resolve this. She was begging for her life. Rachel was begging for her life. Why didn't that make him stop? She's assaulted him two times now with a deadly weapon. Why would he trust her at that point? If it was a rattlesnake right there in your face and you had a hold of it and you were able to cut its head off. And that rattlesnake could talk to you. He said, we can work this out. It'll be okay. Just let me go. So why did Todd Winkler feel the need to so ferociously defend himself? Against his tiny wife? This man has a theory. In fact, he has two neurotic disorders. One is called the dissociative disorder. One is called conversion disorder. Dr. Frank Lossie, an expert witness for the defense, has practiced psychiatry since 1947. In a nutshell, he says a dissociative disorder produces a disconnect with reality. A conversion disorder? Can produce other odd symptoms. Conversion disorder is where a mental state is converted into a physical disability. Dr. Lossie says Todd had both disorders that day. His right hand was paralyzed by the conversion disorder. And so, Winkler felt vulnerable and weak. He thought, it's just either she's going to kill me or I'm going to kill her. Do you believe that he was, in reality, vulnerable and weak? Yes, I do. This is nothing but smoke and mirrors trying to trick you. Of course, Souter believes Dr. Lossie's theory is vulnerable and weak. Do you believe that he was partially paralyzed in the midst of this fight? Absolutely not. Souter says Todd Winkler is just putting on another act. The evidence proves he's lying. And she's about to tell the jurors exactly how she believes he ended up with two dead wives. To be continued. A beautifully designed Squarespace website is the difference between thinking about photography school and selling your portraits online. It's the difference between giving away those cookies you just made for free and running your cookie empire. A beautifully designed Squarespace website is the difference between having a movie reviewing hobby and a movie reviewing career. Squarespace, because no matter what you're into, a website makes it real. Use offer code difference for 50% off select plans. Terms and conditions apply. He said he wanted her to die. His own statement. I want her to die. After 12 days of testimony, it is time for closing arguments. Prosecutor Lissette Souter tells the jury Rachel Winkler's injuries tell the story. Look at the injuries on her neck. The images are so graphic, we won't show them. Look at how many times he has control of those scissors and he is stabbing repeatedly. There, there, there, there, there. This is not self-defense. Look at the difference between her hands and his hands. But defense attorney David Weiner says Rachel was the aggressor. And all of a sudden he's got, she's coming at him with a pair of scissors. There's a struggle and he describes it as a struggle that takes some time, that she was one. One tough customer. He seems to know it's a tough sell. This is not a murder case, ladies and gentlemen. This is a self-defense case or at most it's a voluntary manslaughter case. Or at most a voluntary manslaughter case, at most. To me, that didn't sound like a guy who was convinced that his client is absolutely innocent. Well, then maybe I shouldn't have said that. Why did you say that? Uh, because, uh, there's, there's, there's some room to argue there. Weiner, in his closing argument, made no mention of Winkler's outburst. He also never mentioned the psychiatric disorders. But Suter did, to discredit the defense. Somehow, all of a sudden, in the middle of the struggle, he now can't use his right arm and his right hand. When he was killing her, he now has paralysis. She said, She reminded the jury that Rachel was not the first of Winkler's wives to die and that Winkler collected more than $1 million in life insurance after his previous wife, Catherine, died in that awful crash. Why did he kill Kathy? He killed Kathy for financial gain. And she says Winkler killed Rachel for the same reason, money. He wasn't fine with having to pay her money to leave him and have to pay, i.e., child support and spousal support. She argued there are too many similarities between the two deaths. Fennant has now had two dead wives. And in both cases, he's the only witness. And his stories change. And he comes up with injuries after the fact. But Catherine Winkler's death was ruled an accident. And that ruling stands to this day. If you're going to find that Todd Winkler killed Kathy Winkler, you have to rely on wild, blind, idiotic speculation. Now it's up to the jury to decide. Don Hatfield knows the state presented a strong case very well. But now, waiting for the verdict, he still can't help but worry. What if? It took the jury less than five hours to reach a verdict. This is it. Superior court of the state of California in and for the county of Eldorado. We have a jury by the defendant Todd Allen Winkler, guilty of the crime of first-degree murder as charged in count one of the indictment. Guilty. Rachel's father cried. Her boyfriend hugged his daughter. But Todd Winkler did not seem to react at all, as he was led away in shackles. Okay. I'm going to remand Mr. Winkler to the custody of the sheriff. Six weeks later, Todd Winkler was released from custody. Winkler was back in court to be sentenced, and Don Hatfield got his chance to be heard. The pain and anguish my family and Rachel's friends have endured since this vile act is unimaginable. These beautiful children were orphaned in one cruel deed. How will I ever explain or even comment on the question, "Why did Daddy kill Mommy?" Rachel's children will prevail in this life. But they will not survive. But they will never see their mother again. And then Todd Winkler spoke. I will just say, Your Honor, that I feel deep remorse for what's happened and for Rachel's family, for my family, and especially for my children. Judge Kenneth Malikian answered Winkler. You are not the victim in this case. Rachel Winkler is the victim in this case. And then he handed down the verdict. He handed down the sentence. The total sentence is 26 years to life. Twenty-six years to life for murdering Rachel. But Katherine Winkler's sister, Christina, is still hoping for a new investigation into Katherine's death. Just struggling for answers and wanting justice for my sister. Rachel's friend, Brandi, got the justice she was looking for. But whatever comfort that provides. I miss her in so many ways. Cannot make up for the loss she still feels. We talked a lot about bringing our kids up together. We had waited 20 years for that to happen. And Don Hatfield, who knows the awful pain of losing a daughter. Would you rather watch cartoons or animals? Says he still feels Rachel's presence every day. Give me the broom, he shouted. Through his grandchildren, whom he will continue to raise. Good night, Eva, Ariel, good night. I want Eva, Ariel, and Alex to know that they had a mother who loved them very much. Good night. Love you. Love you, too. And that she's with God and God is not far away and neither is their mother. ♪♪ ♪♪ Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands for the super-athletic stuff, like running gear for cruising up the trail, and the super-athletish stuff, like fishing gear for chilling by the creek, nice cast, fitness apparel to push for higher reps, you got this, and golf balls priced so you can afford them. You don't want to lose one. Or a few. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. This is Jill Schlesinger from Money Moves. You started a business to follow your passion, not to get buried in financial details. Xero makes managing your numbers simple by bringing accounting, payments, payroll, and analytics together in one place. Instead of trying to sound smart, Xero is designed to make you feel better. Feel smart with easy-to-read dashboards and smart insights that give you better control over your money. Join 5 million customers worldwide who trust Xero to keep their business running smoothly without the hassle. Learn more at Xero.com.