The Turkish Rug Pull

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a left one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233-4Support. Happy Dating Detectives Monday! Yay! Hi, Mackenzie. You have the cutest glasses on there like hearts. You look so happy. Aren't they cute? They're little prescription glasses, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I had to get these in prescription. They're heart shape." Yeah, my sister had them, and I was like, "I want them," and so I copied her. That doesn't sum you up. It's so cute. I love them. It's honestly a good, not to be like, "Here's a seamless segue," but like this story as crazy and as annoying as it is, you're going to leave feeling like, "Hell yeah, like there's rare that we leave feeling super positive," but I'm like, "I feel revved up after this one." Yeah, you guys are- today's episode is wild. You're going to think. You know what happens at the end, but hold the phone. Hold your panties on because you have no idea. It's just weight. It's so good. I also want to say a disclaimer. That's very important. We do have a moment in the episode where we jump in with this disclaimer, but I want to add it to the beginning because I want it to be so clear that she does do something in the episode that we do not condone, you'll know, I'm reiterating it here. She involves queer people in her revenge. They are not harmed and that's- I mean, she shouldn't have done it and she knows that and we do not condone it. We should not involve strangers at all without their consent and anything that we're doing. In this context, these dogfish were super homophobic and she beat them at their own game. She scammed a scammer and that never happens. Like in over 130 episodes, nobody has successfully gotten any kind of justice in this way. And for that, we must celebrate to some extent and our reactions are big and they were largely because the fact that these guys were so gross and homophobic that this plan even worked was so bonkers. So I just don't want anyone to interpret our reactions as co-signing the behavior you don't know. And she put them in harm's way and she knows that it's dangerous. Do not. Do not do not. That is all I wanted to say, but you know us guys, we want to share any story. There's no perfect victim and we really love Lena, like she is a good person and she recognizes that it was a really crazy period to be in after being dogfished and her behavior is- we don't know how we'd react, you know, we say the same things every time. So we totally understand what it's difficult for us to do and we appreciate your thoughtful feedback. But this is her story and it deserves to be told. Shout out to Lena's friend who encouraged her to submit her story. Thank you. Well, no, she submitted it for her and she said, hey, you don't know who these folks are. She's like, I've never heard of the dating defective so high, but I don't know if I've been in her story. I don't know if I've been in her story. But it did work out and I'm happy about it. It was amazing. I think we should get into it, shall we? I am so excited. I am too. Okay, let's get to Lena. Okay, so we have Lena with us and Lena, first of all, thank you for being here and sharing with us and I would love to give you the floor so you can take us on your journey. Sure. Thanks for having me. Let me start by just giving you a little bit of background about myself. I am divorced and part of my free time is spent traveling internationally. So I have gone extensively around the world as part of my joy and soul and I've loved. Thank you. I've gone to almost 40 countries and in many bananas, yeah, and in me or you are so a big solo traveler or do you go with friends or both? I'd say 50/50. Okay. You're free or solo and in the past? Good for you. I love it. That's so cool. In recent years, I've spent more time in the Middle East and I've really enjoyed learning about Arab culture and Islam and read the Quran several times and so that has been very intriguing for me. So I spent my 50th birthday this past October in Turkey because it's this great blend of Asia, Europe, the Middle East, all this stuff and I thought there's no better way to be for such a milestone birthday than in Turkey. So that's where this story begins, an independent solo traveler celebrating a milestone birthday. I wish you weren't here because that sounds like it could be such a wonderful, amazing adventure. Oh, and it, listen, and it was. I mean, I had a few. Okay. That's a fantastic time. Turkey is a beautiful country with amazing food and a sultan history with the Ottoman Empire and amazing mosques, beautiful people, a rich history and it's wonderful until you run into a terrible romance scam. Oh, no. So I had saved this particular mosque for my birthday because it was just so, so special that I wanted it to be the last thing I visited before I went home. So I saved it for my 50th birthday and having traveled extensively, I've got bookcases filled of knick-knacks and I was like, I don't need another chatsky to dust. So I'm going to, I'm going to book a really fun photo shoot day of my birthday and found this great photographer who has just a myriad of fun, romantic dresses and you can pick out the one you want, whatever color, whatever style and meet him at sunrise in front of this mosque. They should do that kind of photo shoot just for a me moment. Absolutely. You know, and I've recently lost weight and I'm good for you, that's always fun. I'm feeling myself and this mosque is just romance and history and love and it's just incredible. So I booked this photo shoot, we meet at 5 a.m. It's just us and the pigeons and cobblestone and it's just absolutely the best time. So later I get to my hotel, I change into my everyday clothes and I am walking toward the mosque and I'm feeling really good. I've got my hair done extra nice, my makeup's extra special because I just did this photo shoot. I'm 50 years old, I am living exactly the way I want to live because as I said, I'm divorced. My son is doing well, I'm just really content. How old is your son? He's 20. 20. Okay. So I'm just feeling just so full of gratitude and love. And I walk toward the mosque and I hear this man call out to me from a side cafe, excuse me. Are you, are you Turkish? Now this is not an uncommon event for me at all. I don't know if you agree with this, but given my features, well, wait a minute, they're not going to see me. This is a podcast. Okay. That's all right. Okay. So I have olive skin and dark features and people often think that perhaps I am local until the American accent, of course. And so this was not a red flag for me whatsoever and I said, no, but you know, I sure would like to be. This is such a beautiful country. And so we start talking again, not unusual Turkish folks are incredibly hospitable. I've been there a week, I've spent lots of time with other people on buses, shopkeepers, restaurant people to sit and talk for a few minutes is not unusual in the least. It's part of the reason I love Mediterranean and Levant countries. So he's like, where are you, where are you headed to? And I said, oh, I'm going to the mosque. And he said, can I walk with you for a little bit? I have a friend that owns a store. It's really beautiful. I'd love to show it to you. And you know what? It's my last day there and I haven't finished any shopping. So perfect. So he walks me to the store. It's actually a really beautiful store and I'm glad to be there. And he immediately takes me upstairs to where the rugs are, which I thought was a little strange. Like, why not just let me browse, but again, I don't think much of it. I would just assume he's like a salesperson. Totally. Totally. Push or rub on me. Totally. Okay. And this is where I meet Kamal. And Kamal is larger than life. He is bombastic. He is hilarious. He is exactly the type of person that I'd love to engage with. And so we just hit it off like two thieves, which is a very ironic thing just now. So he's sitting on this big leather couch like he's, I want to describe him for you because he's really fun. He's got like a turtleneck sweater on with like a leather jacket. Some gold rings. I mean, he's just, you can stop at the turtleneck and leather jacket and like, I get it. Just a character. Yeah. Just a character. I get a character. I feel like he's part of the Godfather, like, he's just so fun. And he's like, come and sit with me and I'm like, sure, I'm going to sit with you. And he brings Turkish tea, which is always what they do. And then he's like, let's have snacks. We're having snacks. He's trying to sell me a rug. I'm like, I'm not buying a rug. And he's like, yeah, you are. And I said, sure, try to sell me a rug. It's not going to happen. And we're just like roasting each other and why aren't you buying a rug? I said, because I've been all over the world, I got enough rugs. But he's like, but she've never had a Turkish rug. And I go, and I never will. I mean, we're just like, like the way I turn, it's flirting and negative. Yeah, it's totally like it's really great. I'm holding my own. You can tell he's not used to this because this is not their culture where a woman is pushing back, you know, like, this is really fun for me. And he says this much. He goes, you know, women don't normally talk to me like this. And I said, well, I'm not most women. Like we're just like family, yeah, we're just giving it to each other. But it's with great humor, right? It's a lot of fun. And this is exactly my style of communication, right? You called it nagging? Yeah. The nagging. People give that a bad, for people that don't know nagging is like when you flirt by like teasing. Yeah. Yeah. And it can be really bad because it can be like someone trying to cut you down. But I think there's a level of it that's just funny. It was like, look, I'm not buying a rug. I came to shop. I thought I was going to look at like shots, keys downstairs, but you know, I get it. You think I have money? I don't have money. So we're interacting. It's great. We probably spend an hour together, but it's fine because it's early in the morning. And so I was like, seriously, I'm not buying a rug. And he goes, okay, go downstairs and see if you like anything down there. And I did. I clocked a few things. I was like, no problem. One thing I wish I knew about earlier in my life is that credit cards are not magical money. Like in college, I just thought credit cards are magical money and if I didn't pay it back, it's fine. But it held over me on my credit report for years and years and years and years and years. 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So right now, baked by Melissa is offering our listeners 20% off your order at bakedbymelissa.com/datingdetectives. That's bakedbymelissa.com/datingdetectives for 20% off your order bakedbymelissa.com/datingdetectives. So we go downstairs and I'm looking at Peshminas and he points to a couple of guys downstairs and he says, "See that guy in the corner? That's my nephew." And he totally looks like they could be related and he says, "Do you think he's handsome?" I said, "Yeah." Sure. And he goes, "Well, he's married. You can't have him." I'm like, "Okay." I don't want him. Come on. Like, I'm not here to fall in love. I'm here to go to the palace, what the fuck, you know? And I said as much. And again, the roasting is continuing, right? And then he says, "See this other guy? Also my nephew. He's also married. You can't have him." And we're just, you know, being silly. And then he pulls on his phone and he shows me a picture and he says, "Do you like this one?" And I said, "I like this Peshmina. Like, what the hell?" And this guy on the phone is stupid, good-looking. I mean, like, I was just, ooh, Lord. He says, "This is my other nephew." And he's available. And I'm like, "Are you, I said, are you his pimp? Like, what the fuck?" And literally, he went from selling rugs to selling his nephews. So he goes, "Oh, don't be crass. I'm just telling you." I said, "Well, I'm here for the mosque. How much does this Peshmina, like I'm trying to get his back on track, because I don't know." It's my last day. I'm not into this. And then he yells at his name. He's like, "I'm ill. I'm ill. Come eat, Lena. She's hilarious." So I'm giving a little on my heels. And then this man, this Turkish god of a man, comes around the corner, and I was done. I was done. Like, I don't know. I've never seen a man look like this. It was a lot. Like, he. Is it sexy? Yes. Just. Okay. Y'all imagine. Yeah, I get it. Tall, dark, and handsome, probably. For real. Yeah. Yeah. Just. And did he have like a charisma too? Oh, so much ris. I mean, I was sunk. But I was sunk. I was done for. And I'm not really that. Twitter pated. Like, I'm pretty logical, but I was done. And then. Come on. It's like. Emile. It's Lena's birthday today. And he was like. Well, I won't ask you how old you are because you're timeless. I mean, I was like. Oh, my god. For real. For real. And I mean, normally I would roll my eyes, but you did not see this man. It was. Crazy. I was like. Stupedified. Yeah. And he. That's a real. Yeah. It was too much. Yes. Too much. And he's like, so what are you doing for your birthday? And I said, oh, I'm just. I'm buying any rug you try to sell me. I don't know. I'll take anything. No, no, no. Right. So I just go. I'll go into the mosque. And he's like. And then. Go into lunch. Like, I was like. I'm dead. I know. And then he's like. I think I should take you to dinner. Aw. And I was like, oh, no, that's fine. It's good. Everything. No. It's fine. Probably not. No, like, I'll just. I'll just have crackers and something like. I go. What were you thinking? And he's like. There's this really beautiful fish restaurant. It's just gorgeous. It's very romantic. And I was like, is it nice? And she goes, it's so nice. And the dress I was wearing was like this little. It was long and it was like modest, but it was cotton. And I said, oh, this is my nicest dress. And he says, oh, it's not a problem. I'll have my driver take you shopping and it's on me. This sounds like an episode of Sex in the City. Yeah. This is what Samantha would get into. Yes. 100%. And I was like, what? And then he was like, but here's the thing, Lena. It's fine either way. This is what I want to do. I want to give you my number. And you go to the mosque and you decide what's right for you. I was so impressed by the politeness, the respect, the non-pressure. Like I loved it. So I said, that sounds really good. Thank you. So I bought the peshmina. I took his number. And then I'm going to make my way to the mosque. And then right at that moment, the call to prayer begins. And that is with the call to prayer is five times a day in Islam. And so it comes over the loudspeaker. So the public knows when to begin. And he says to me, oh, you know, Lena, you can't go to the mosque right now. Because they're closed for prayer. And I'm thinking, not they're not like this is a public mosque. They're not close to prayer. And I researched this, but I don't say this out loud just in case I'm wrong. I mean, he lives there. He would know. And he's like, so why don't you, why don't you stay and talk to me a little bit longer? Oh, well, they're closed for prayer. And I'm like, oh, okay, sure. So we do. And he is a total gentleman and continues to ask me questions and get me more emotionally hooked on him. And just investing and being lovely and wants to know everything about me. So we're done talking. I decided to go to the mosque and of course the mosque is amazing. And I'm just feeling really happy. I had this beautiful photo shoot. I had fun banter with Uncle. There's a hot guy that wants to take me out for my birthday dinner. I bought a beautiful Pechmina. Now I'm in this like legendary mosque that's been around for hundreds of centuries. I mean, come on. This is a perfect day. It's a perfect day. And you know, I woke up that morning saying the same mantra. I've been saying for years, which is God. Show me how good it can be. So you did, right? He did. Wow. But it gets even better. I exit the mosque and every mosque has a beautiful outdoor courtyard. I mean, just the, the mosaic, tiling, the water fountain and the courtyard looks up to the sky. I'm just sitting there just having so much gratitude. And then all of a sudden a bird poops on the top of my hijab. And if you know anything about signs, that is very good. That's a good sign. Yeah. That's a good. That's a good sign. It's like good luck. It's good luck. Interesting. So the scene in under the Tuscan sun where Diane Lane's character is trying to buy a villa in Tuscany. She doesn't have enough money. There's other people trying to buy the villa at the same time. She has the lowest offer. And so she says, okay, I get it. You probably want to sell to the highest bidder. No problem. And as she's leaving a bird poops on her head. And the owner of the villa says, I'm going to sell it to you because it's good luck. And so as soon as this happens, I think of that scene. I think of how he's half Italian. I'm just like, oh my God. This is my wrong call. This is my. Yeah. That's exactly what I thought. I was like, I asked God to show me how good it can be. And I am literally in a wrong calm. I was in a gorgeous red dress this morning. Now a bird has pooped on me. Like, who's going to do the soundtrack? This is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like, I'm just a yes to the state for sure. And I walk outside. And he's right there on the bench waiting for me. And yeah, that was, I was like, okay. Stage five clinger vibes. Right now. Our faces were just kind of like, okay. So walk over to him and I go, Emile, what's he doing? Yeah. I just want to make sure that you had what you needed. If you needed directions, if you needed to. Why is my first thought like, do you have a job? Like, why are you like able to hang out around a person? Yeah. Do you know what he does for a living? Yeah. The job is the store. Okay. So that makes sense. Yeah. So very flexible there. And the store is right by the mosque. Okay. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah. I mean, at first I was like, why are you here? And then he goes, I just want to make sure like if you need directions, you said you had some shopping to do. Do you need, and so it kind of added up for me. And I said, oh, no, I'm good. And then he was like, do you want to spend the day together? Do you want to do anything? And I, I didn't like, I didn't. I mean, I like to sell the travel. I love it. And he was weird about it. He was like, okay, cool. And I was like, but I do want to go to dinner. And he was like, that's great. And so I, you know, gave him the address of my hotel. And we agreed on a time. And that was it. So I was really excited for the state. I mean, I face timed my sister told her everything about it. She was like, I love that both for the gabbing and for letting someone know what you do. Yes. Yes. I just was so excited. And she's like, have a wonderful time. You deserve this. And he was so respectful. He was running a little bit late. I mean, five minutes and texted me. I'm running. I know he gets there. So respectful. The date was wonderful. So the banter was good. It was just, I don't know. It was just all good. Halfway through the meal, he says, I'm sure you make great money at your career. And I said, I do, I do okay. Because, you know, but everybody could use a little bit more. Okay. Sure. This is my uncle was really taken with you. And I said, yeah, I mean, I enjoyed getting to know him too. And he says, the tariffs with your president have been really hard on our business. And we have so many investors in America that really rely on our Turkish rocks. And, you know, they're very expensive. They're made of silk. They're, they're hand done. And it's just been so challenging to continue to sell them at the rate that we do with these tariffs. And I was like, okay, and he goes, so my uncle wanted to talk to you about getting involved in the business. And is this a date or an interview? So he's like, we have some pretty big players in Dallas and New York. And they buy huge quantities of rugs at a time, either for wholesale or for their penthouses. And sometimes they want to exchange rugs when they move to bigger houses. But the tariffs are like really hurting our business. So uncle wants to know if we can use your address to send the rugs to save on tariffs and we'll split the tariff money with you. And I'm like, oh, okay. So what do I, what do I need to do? And he's like, you just need to receive the rugs. Okay. And he's like, and then in about six to eight weeks, we'll be there to pick them up. And this is what got me. I, he says, and if we want to spend more time together, we can walk me through the thoughts in your head as you're here. Yeah. I'm totally on board. I mean, I would love to make some money. And I would love to see this guy. You never had any thoughts about it being a scam right now. No, God, no, God. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's. He's only asked me to send rugs. Or to receive rugs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I don't know anything about tariffs. So it has not. Who does? Yeah. Yeah. So like now that the whole thing's over, I'm like, wait, you still have to fucking pay tariffs when you share that. Yeah. I was thinking I was like, I'm trying to understand how it saves him money. I guess if you're directly sent. I still go over this. And I'm like, how the fuck did he explain it again? I don't know. But he did. He's saying we're going to do the paperwork in the store. That alleviates the tariffs. And then we use your address. So we just need to have you receive them. Then we're going to pick them up in six weeks. And then we're going to give you about $10,000 in tariff money saved. That she'll receive in about eight weeks. I'm glad you shared the amount because that's a lot of money that would make anyone go. I could see why you'd be like, oh, yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And he pulls out his phone. And he's on WhatsApp. And he's showing me all these buyers with pen houses with beautiful mansions with rugs. And I have no reason to doubt this guy. It looks so legit. And then he spends a couple of minutes during the dinner afterward, saying, I, I'm sorry to, you know, be obtuse. But I need to contact some of my clients. It's an 11 hour difference. So we're having dinner, but it's like 10 a.m. in New York. And he needs to update the clients and where the rugs are. All seems legit to me. So let me make it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. This episode is about scamming a lot of our episodes are and I feel like scams online are getting crazier and crazier McKenzie. Can you tell us from your expertise as a PI, how something like delete me could help someone protect themselves? Yeah, so it's easier than ever to find personal information about people online. So having your address phone number family members, names hanging out all willy nilly on the internet can have actual consequences in the real world and make everyone vulnerable. 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So now that I've agreed to this dinner's wrapping up and we know that we're going to see each other again in eight weeks and so things are getting kind of personal and he's like do you want to spend the night alone or do you want to stay together. And normally I would not do this right so I was like well of course I want to be with you because I'm going to see you again if I was never going to see him again I'd be like thanks for dinner you know right yeah I would enjoy spending more time with this person yeah we're starting something here this is great he had also told me the way that he had learned English so well is because he had an American girlfriend for nine years so I think okay you've had this girlfriend. And you visited her regularly with the rug exchange I'm going to be the next one I like I was excited so you're thinking maybe this could turn into something yes and and honestly I told you I don't really care for American men anymore and I don't want a full time boyfriend I don't need somebody in my space like having somebody across the world that I see a few times a year and maybe travel with sounds delightful. I get that I get that and I mean it seemed like he had a decent living on a driver pick you up it's like this could be a nice companion absolutely yeah so I check out of my little boutique hotel and he takes me to this like five star situation and he carries my bags and he pays for it and we check into the room and he he says when you get situated go ahead and look out the window and I'm like okay so I get my pajamas on and brush my teeth and I look out the window and it is this killer view of the mosque. I love this and I love a five star hotel so we had a romantic evening and the next morning I was getting ready for my flight and he was sleeping in and honestly I was just like I guess we're not going to do the business thing and honestly I don't carry the way because he was really sleeping in. And then all of a sudden his alarm goes off and he's like are you are you ready to go like are your bags packed we need to go see uncle like he's got breakfast ready for us and I was like okay but like I got you ready to go sleepy yeah right but I was like I really got to make this flight on time so what time should I be at the airport I don't know how busy it's going to be. He's like it's not going to be that busy it's it's it's it's October it's not the busy but like we have to go to the store. Uncle's waiting for us and he's like really really really rushed but again I was like well then why the fuck are we so late I got a right now got to get a paper airport. So we get there and uncle's got this beautiful huge breakfast it's great and he's like how was dinner was a meal a gentleman and I said he was a total gentleman we had a great time. Good good and then I should add that like as soon as we came into the store I don't know where my bags went I mean he was carrying them which was nice but I remember thinking where my bags and I asked and he was like don't worry I have them. And then we went upstairs to the rug room and almost as soon as a meal had a little bit of breakfast and coffee he left and I remember thinking that's super weird because we just had this date and this night together and I'm about to say goodbye. No he just left the room I'm sorry yeah he just left the room I thought it was like going to the bathroom or something because why wouldn't you say goodbye and I'm left with uncle. And then uncle is like so email talked to you about the business deal and I said oh yeah he said because you know we really trust you we really want you to be a part of the family and we've had other people in the past screw us over and we wouldn't want that. And I was like now my now my alarms are going off I said what do you mean we're over well we we had someone in New York that we sent the rugs to very very expensive rugs and they didn't answer the door when we came. Oh and I said oh I'm sorry to hear that how terrible so now they're the victims yeah exactly and I said why do you think that happened and he immediately gets pissed off he goes don't talk to me like that. Okay well you're like what are you yesterday yeah and it's that it's that vibe of like no woman talks to a man like that. And I said I said come all I'm simply curious as to why you think this business deal went south I'm simply curious this Lena I don't want to talk about this it doesn't matter it's in the past. So he's like are you going to do this with us because you know it'd be great to help you make $10,000 and then you know we split it and the stuff and I'm like sure that's fine I mean you can use my dress. Okay so we just need the 35,000 I'm sorry I'm sorry dollars yes not Turkish lira dollars and I said 35,000 like 100 wait from you yes zero zero zero yes and they were going to give you your money back and give you the $10,000 correct with did they say that before I know no that was not said at the restaurant I did not think so I was new this is new information I would have never come back to the store never no because did you have money like that just yeah no no they want to get it okay so I said excuse me yeah well you have to buy the rocks Lena I mean why do you think this works and it's just absolutely condescending and talking to me like I'm six years old and this is kind of one of my core wounds to be perceived as not intelligent and it's crazy for these motherfuckers can feel that it's just crazy like pray I don't know how they do it this wild and I said well that wasn't discussed at the restaurant and he says of course it was of course it was my God what a gas later my nephew has worked for me my whole life and I'm thinking of myself is it I mean I didn't drink anything of the question yourself oh yeah I mean here's the problem with culture is that you go out of your way to bend to culture so that you're not perceived as rude and I love to learn about culture I mean I love it but it also makes you a massive target to be empathetic to culture you know yeah it can be anything from learning hey when somebody offers you food you never say no even if you're just going to have a few bites right could be something that's like sweet as that right all the way to of course we asked you for $35,000 you dumbass right now if an American had said that to me I'd say get fucked you gas lighter yeah big but when a Turkish businessman who says you're like family says that you think have I offended this man without knowing it or you scared it all 100% and it gets worse 100% oh God because my flight's leaving I don't know where my bags are yeah where is your meal and I have to make this flight y'all I have to make this flight because as much as I love my employer I really test boundaries with her on how much time I'm away like she's an amazing boss so you're like no I need to get back yeah like there's just no part of me that can be like oh I got hung up with the Turkish mafia and I'm going to be late to work I'm a mental health therapist in a hospital so not showing it for work is like not possible so yes he's like of course he said 35k how else would this work Lena and I'm like again kind of making me feel like you know I can't help you if you're a dumbass and I go I don't know I don't know how else it would work I go but I don't have 35k and he's like well why not I mean you're a therapist you work in America don't you make good money and now I'm defending myself I said I make good money but I also am divorced and my son has a music career that I try to support and you know I was money like that is why you didn't like I don't know 35k and rug money I know but yeah yeah but when you're scared like you find yourself saying stupid stuff and again if this had been in America I probably would have flipped the table and said get fucked but it's happening in a brand new country and so I just I I panicked I just panicked he I needed to get on that fucking flight and so I said I guess I could get it from my 401k no I did and then he like hugged me and he was like that a girl so I put 10% down on my credit card and did a promissory note to wire the rest and got the fuck out of there and I know it so you didn't like take it all out in that moment no no I also didn't change my mind when I got home I mean it like the love bombing resumed as soon as I got to the airport you know I mean I came downstairs and got my bags and was like a meal where the fuck were you and he was like oh you know uncle just prefers to do business alone and I was like I don't prefer to do business alone yeah and he was like but I also needed to work the store we just got busy with customers and I mean it kind of made sense so he was getting me into the taxi and he was really romantic and he was like babe I'm so sorry if that was awkward for you I just you know that's how he likes to do business so it's really clear what everybody's expectations are and I was like okay well I just love that and he was like I'm so sorry babe and you know kissed my teeth yeah totally and he has the thing about love bombing is I've listened to your podcast enough to know that like a lot of people are like it's the biggest red flag of all okay I get it I do I really feel so good but here's I wasn't going to say that I agree with that we're both like we love being love bombed yes I do agree that it feels good but the other problem with love bombing is I have really high self esteem like I I just got for you first of all thank you but I just really that's the beauty of being 50 is like it's like you don't give up I you don't and I don't know what that is about aging but you're just kind of like love me or hate me this is like who I am and I bitch yes yes like when they're obsessed with you you're like yeah I get it that's exactly right so when somebody love bombs you you're like well I'm glad you see it too great yeah and so there's a lot of judgment from people who are not 50 who are like how could you not see it just grab this and I'm like this man was like a god in his physical looks yeah I'm not that same level but also I bring other things to bounce it out right like I'm funny and I'm well traveled and I understand world religions and so I just feel like yeah it kind of bounces it out if you ever wake up sweaty or freezing or just uncomfortable for me it's usually freezing but then I don't know sometimes I get sweaty it's weird but the temperature in your bedroom can make or break your sleep which is why I switched to miracle made sheets they're inspired by NASA technology and they use silver infused temperature regulating fabric to help you 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money back guarantee there's no risk that's try miracle dot com slash TDD code TDD at checkout thanks to miracle made for sponsoring this episode so I go home and Emile is like fucking consistent on the communication like he doesn't ever want to text he always wants to video chat because you know I'm just so beautiful and we video chat like three to four times a day he's always asking about me and my son and work and even with the 11 hour time difference he's staying up late to make sure that he talks to me he's getting up early like he's just great he's great wow so he is telling me how excited he has to see me soon and what kind of activities are we going to do in my hometown and do I want to go to Italy in the spring and oh yeah like that's my love language let's travel together like that's amazing so it's great I feel really good about all this and then this is how I crack the case this is so crazy he got a cold he got a cold and he stopped communicating um consistently and it annoyed me I was like so cuz he got a cold yeah he stopped commit like he missed a couple of video chats and I was like hey what's going on are you busy and he was in the countryside visiting his parents and I was like well you're not busy with work like he had been showing me the countryside and how relaxed he was and he was doing that to visit his parents because he was going to be on this long road trip in the US and so we wanted to spend time with them before he came out and I was like oh that's so great you're still connected with your family and then he just kind of dropped off I mean not ghosty me but like it the communication fell apart by like at least half and it annoyed me I was like listen if you're lost interest in me that's fine but we still got to stay tethered because of this business meal had you wired the remaining oh yeah oh yeah okay and he says babe what are you talking about and I said I just noticed you're pulling back and you're not really asking me about my days anymore and I don't love that so if you've lost interest that's fine I'm not for everybody but we're gonna stay tethered because guys owe me $45,000 so stay in touch and he was like babe what like why are you being insecure everything's fine I was like again your communication style is not good and he goes I have a cold and he did he had a cold you could cure it but I was like you can still text yeah you can send me some dumb real I mean you could still say hey I'm having dinner with my parents tonight and I'm not gonna be on my phone as much totally totally and there was just no accountability and I really did not love it and I got annoyed and I told him and he sent the uncle to call me so I get this I've never video chatted with the uncle before he calls me on video chat and he's like why are you upset with a meal and I said first of all this is none of your fucking business I'm upset with him because we're not talking as much but again I'm gonna forget that out with him why am I talking to you and he says don't talk to me like that Lena and I said like why are you calling me this isn't about you you're not in our relationship and he says well I just want you to know I've talked with him too and he really does have a cold that was not in dispute I know he has a cold I know I'm getting off the phone now this is crazy and that's what I knew something was real fucked up they were just overselling it yeah also yeah nobody mentioned doubting the cold right so when they say like no he really has a cold now I'm like okay I didn't think that but now I think maybe he doesn't yeah yeah now my spidey senses are like why do you guys care so much that I'm losing interest in this relationship you're just over compensating that I'm irritated so at this point the rugs have arrived and I'm starting to doubt I know it's a small thing but I like as a therapist I'm just doubting all of this now why are you so strange about the cold so I tear into the rugs and I'm expecting to find these extremely expensive silk rugs and these rugs look like they're from ikea and they smell like ikea yeah and they smell like cigarette smoke no and then I open up the paperwork that I filled out in the store you know right before my flight when it was all fast and I never opened it never had a reason to okay so I signed this quick piece of paper like you know sand I'm gonna fire this money later and he folds it up puts it in an envelope I never opened it again okay I open up that piece of paper there's no store name on the paper like it's it's it's like blank letterhead hmm like not a real business letterhead just fake stationary kind of thing and I'm like oh my gosh what what the fuck is this I go to the label for the rugs there's no business name on it I'm like what if it's on it just a address just an address I reverse google map the address I cannot find a business name I'm like oh my gosh like it's not on google maps this business doesn't exist then I remember I bought a sweater from a storefront about eight stores up from the shop earlier in the week like thank god I bought this sweater and true Turkish hospitality we were talking for like an hour having tea because he's a real person with good intentions and we became Instagram friends and so I DM him and I said hey how's it going love my sweater also can you tell me the name of the store it's like you know eight stores down and I described what it looked like and he wrote me back almost instantly and he said please tell me you didn't shop there no there are known scam artists there no no no no didn't I tell you not to go there and I said oh no you didn't and he's like I'm so sorry did you buy anything and I was like a pashmina like I just couldn't tell them the rest yeah but but okay so when you see him say wait please tell me you didn't go there did you know immediately or were you still like no this is fine doubting it I thought he was gonna say something like oh the gold there is like not real gold it's like gold plated I didn't know what he was gonna say I thought he'd say something like that you know I mean he doesn't know about this tariff thing I thought he was gonna say something like that so I just said oh okay yeah no I mean I just bought a scarf but thanks can you tell me the name of the store please and he tells me the name and I go cool yeah hope you're doing well touch it later and then I go to Google to look up the name and the only thing that exists right because they don't have a website they're not real the only thing that is this is a Facebook group that one of the victims put together that says if you've been scammed here's the group of victims and we have a lawyer in the country fighting for our rights and there's a good person get in touch with me immediately and I so now what what goes your head then oh I'm gonna be sick I can't believe I just fucked myself how could I be so stupid no I mean I just immediately start crying I think that like yeah there's a part of you there's just like of course I couldn't pull in such a good looking guy oh girl I know that feeling oh man it's so confusing it's so confusing and then yeah you just feel like you brought this on yourself like I just immediately was like I did this to myself I willingly gave the money because I'm greedy and I wanted to make 10 grand and I just fucked myself not they did this to me they're horrible people and that's the worst part of shame so I spent the next week in such a dark place wow I I love that you guys do this podcast to help people not live there like what a service it's because of you guys so I immediately contact the administrator of this group because it's a private group and she's put out her email and her phone and I text her I Facebook messenger I called her I emailed her I sent a carrier pigeon she did not respond to me and I was like what the fuck bitch like I'm out here dying and then the next day I did it all again I sent a smoke signal I texted her I mean nothing third day I was like oh my god like I I need to talk about this I can't tell anybody but her and she's not getting back to me good cunt I was live bed I was like you're asking for victims to come forward and you're not responding and was the Facebook group private like could you get into it without her responding and approving you I could not so I couldn't reach any other victims yeah I needed her and her only and I was just like this is cruel this is so cruel to not get back to me and it says contact me 24/7 I'm like bitch I'm doing that I am and her area code is in my state the state I live in some like there's not a time difference how dare you and so it was the third day and I haven't drank in years I just decided for mental health and brain health I'm just not gonna drink anymore I fucking got back in to that whiskey and so like I'm not eating I'm not sleeping I'm drinking whiskey again I was like so crashing out and she's not getting back to me on the fourth day of not and I'm still every day's repeating all the texting calling Facebook messenger email fourth day I've decided they've probably killed her I mean I know that sounds crazy but like when you're not sleeping no that'd be me too yeah it doesn't sound crazy it I mean at all you don't know the extent of this yeah I've decided like that I don't know when the Facebook group got updated if it's been like I've decided they've probably killed her I have probably stepped in with the Turkish mafia they have killed her there's no other explanation of why she's not getting back to me I'm so fucked I should just be glad that I got out of that office alive and made my flight I humbly love I'll just leave it there right so the fifth day Lily gets back to me she finally called is that her fake name yeah okay great Lily finally calls me back and I am like I'm like a little tipsy when she calls so I'm like where have you been what what the fuck and she says an answer in my wildest dreams I could have never imagined and you know I'm a middle-health therapist 29 years I've heard it all this bitch says I'm so sorry I'm just getting now back to you I've been in Antarctica and the Wi-Fi is spotty and at that point I'm like everyone scamming everyone nothing is real I know I know I'm like you're face time me with a penguin now 100% be in an igloo with your goose down parka and a snow boots and a paint proof she sent me a picture because I was losing my mind I was like of all the scenarios you being on the seventh continent never crossed my goddamn mind Lily what the fuck I'm obsessed that like in this state I know it's probably the worst state of your life but you still we're calling as if you guys were like friends already right even in like if you called me and I was in her shoes I would still love you immediately oh thank you you were like where the fuck were you I did I really get it so the whiskey talking and then she's she's very gregarious she's like I really don't have a lot of time to talk the Wi-Fi is super spotty and I'm like apparently Lily apparently and I was like are we involved in the same scam she's like yeah the tariff scam and I was like oh my god she goes yeah sorry I hope you didn't sleep with them I'm like oh my god Lily that's not the most important thing right now and she's that she's like she's like yeah you're never gonna see your money again it's been two years for me and I we have a lawyer and I'm so sorry this happened to you you sound so nice we'll have to get together for lunch since we're in the same state and no big deal yeah and she goes anyway I'm really sorry I'm praying for you gotta go see these emperor penguins bye and I was like oh my god I'm just here like she could only talk for like three minutes and then I was left with my whiskey bottle again I was like I can what like what just happened truly did she give you the lawyers info or anything she said she would email it to me yeah so when she gets back I'm in later yeah so I don't even know what I would do it was wild it it helped me but only minimally yeah I mean are you here hearing from them at all the uncle and a meal so just a little bit I mean he's just like babe like don't be mad I have a cold you know so like and and and here's the thing I decided that I wasn't gonna show my cards one in case I was wrong and two in case I was right I didn't I didn't have a strategy yet yeah you know what's my strategy just to go ballistic like just crash out and be an angry woman if they're scam artists they don't give a shit they don't give a crap yeah I just move on to the neck they don't care right so now that it's confirmed I just like yeah it was in a weird place and I just got up I was like I have to go to work every day that's my goal to go to work every day have some grounding so I went to work every day tried not to drink too much I wasn't sleeping and on her Facebook page once she approved my joining the group I was able to see that they have changed their name like once every two years as soon as they get in too much heat they change the name and the business oh so it's gone through many evolutions that's why they're never on the internet and so she's got all kinds of pictures of various players some I recognize from the store you know the other nephews that were married etc so it all just came crashing down like wow this is this really happened to me so I mentioned this to a meal and he's like oh Lily she's just a disgruntled customer we tried to give her a refund and exchange her rugs and she's just still salty about it and we had to change our name because she she got online and just ruined our reputation okay so why did you have to change it like four times though yeah we even changed our name four times just been the one time after she got heated and went online and attacked us so much so you know that was a dead end because he didn't want to discuss it and then uncle started calling me and saying it sounds like you want to discuss Lily okay again not with you like this is between Emilia and I you all got it we're not in a throttle get the fuck out so he was like Lena you are really making things difficult for when we get there and we just want to do business and make money and go out to dinner and be like family and you're really being disrespectful so he's kind of pushing that culture that's important to me you're questioning him yeah how dare you and I say it's on you I say well I don't do business with mobsters what and now he's pissed right because again we're always on video chat told them what he does yeah now we're on video chat and he's like don't you dare talk to me like that and I'm like oh I go and internally I'm like oh my god I found the chicken the armor right dead I go well wait a minute am I am I wrong or maybe you'd prefer if I call you a pimped because you pimped out your nephew all the time but let me tell you he's got to work on his a game because that really felt like a sex to me and now he's just come on done he's come on done don't you dare and I was like listen listen you tell me where I'm wrong okay you want to talk let's talk where am I wrong getting some real serious gay vibes off him so definitely need to work on your a game I mean I can I can talk to you about it or I can talk to a meal about it but this scam has a crap oh yeah and so you know with the narcissist images everything of 100% yeah and and he is like taking this bait he's like go to dare but to this day I'm like why did you even talk to me like you've got my money you should have just hung up on me and blocked me and whatever but like I think that I guess maybe they just want to keep a good reputation so they can find more victims I don't know but maybe there was more to the scam once they keep they could there's a way to keep it going maybe yeah maybe get more out of you I don't know I don't know but so in meal starts calling me and he's like you're really disrespected uncle and I want to be with you and we're coming right after Christmas and you're gonna ruin everything and I was like you know your gay sex kind of ruined everything like I'm just going hard on him are you are you at this point like I know I'm not getting this money back and that's why I can kind of oh yeah yeah the fun oh yeah well I mean I just I just decided like if there's a chance I'm gonna just go hard on it because the depression has lifted you know I just spent seven days in the most dark shameful atrocious place ever and now it's Scorpio time I'm going full fucking throttle on your yes it's black it's it's revenge it's fuck around and find out so I mean like it got weird I remember thinking every time I talk to him on video chat I'm gonna make sure I'm wearing black I'm gonna make sure I'm in this persona you know I'm gonna go hard on his ass so I wouldn't answer the phone unless I was ready unless I was like camera ready makeup dark lipstick black clothes there was no part of me that was just gonna be like a meal how could you do this I was just like it was I was mad all the time and if I wasn't in that headspace I just wouldn't answer the phone so I was pissed I didn't think there was a chance I was gonna get my money back because no one ever does but I was gonna let him know and I didn't have a strategy yet but I was letting him know one I'm divinely protected and so when you cross someone like me who does a lot of good in this world there's gonna be consequences mm-hmm and I told him I said I don't know if it'll be today or five years from now but you're gonna get yours you are fucked you are so fucked because I'm divinely protected and again ladies I have no idea what I was saying like what does that look like if you had asked me I'd say it's gonna stay quiet but no but I love that you said that like put a little bit of fear in him like you'll see you'll get yours mother ever you'll get you so this is what happened about a week later and again I'm not I'm not I'm not sleeping I'm not eating I'm still hitting that whiskey more than I'd like to admit I have no strategy and then one day I'm getting ready for work and I put on some jewelry I got from Greece and it's the evil eye jewelry y'all have seen it yes and I remember Turks are just as superstitious as Greeks and it just fucking popped into my head let me call my homies out in North Africa who I I love North Africa I visit all the time and there's an area in North Africa that has a ugly superstition ugly stereotype about black magic okay and the dark arts and witchcraft and I did a group chat and I called up many of my homies out there and I said listen I hate to ask this it's so it's so ugly and you know I don't believe in any of it because it's the one country I have visited more than any in any of my life I go all the time I love it so much and I said which you guys be willing to help a girl out to get some of her money I've been deeply wronged and just send a couple of text messages via WhatsApp that you are shaman working in the dark arts and you would like to see me get my money returned and they were like hell yeah we would so I provided emails number and I said and if you want to make me laugh maybe just send me a screenshot of some of these and ladies what I tell you some of them were unhinged no oh my god they were just going hard and they were like the thing is with black magic is it does not affect you directly it affects the people you love so when your mama gets a chronic cough that's a black magic that's us that's us I mean did did you did the guys respond so he had blocked me for a few days because every time we talked I would just be angry or a bitch yeah total bitch and he didn't have to deal with me and he was sending uncle to deal with me and I would block uncle like I'm not you know and so he's then when he got these messages he unblocked me and called me and he was like Lena what are you doing and I was like I was like black magic I go I go email what are you talking about like I'm just sipping my coffee and he's like who are these guys from North Africa and I just acted like I had no idea and he goes I'm getting all these messages from North Africa about which left oh my he read them off and he's like and and and who is this one guy and he read his name and I said oh oh you got a message from oh no that is not good hey oh I said that's a shaman who lives up in the upper oh mountainous region and he oh why that sounds terrible let's just say we're praying for you and your family so now he's on the phone with me asking for an explanation what are you doing I'm so upset how could you know I said I have not done any of this this is all this is all you're doing and he goes what do you want and I go well my money bitch and when fucking money back and he goes all I can get you is half right now and I said okay you little cunt send half oh damn so you're my hero 100% so I said what you when are you gonna send it because I don't know what these boys are up to like they're in North Africa and they're hard to reach they're in the mountains you know I can it's not like they're on Wi-Fi all the time so send it immediately and I'll do my best to tell them to stop cooking up their goddamn rituals but like you got to send it pronto and he sent it in two days he sent him money back in two days wow I did not expect you to get a penny back I know I know I know oh my gosh yeah what okay so I was super happy it finally had sleep for like the first time in three weeks yeah yeah it was great but that was not gonna be enough for me no no no so after a couple of days later after my victory high wore off I was like no no no no I'm gonna shut up for blood yes I was so well they still owe you a lot of a lot of money this is working why not dry again yeah so then I was like okay what what else do I have again it comes back to image so witchcraft we're done with that I'm gonna go back to image so I Google mapped the whole neighborhood of where their shop is and I did all the restaurants cafes hotels and shops and I wrote terrible Google reviews of everything like I would write like cute restaurant but the store called this nearby is full of mobster scam artists and gay men and not that there's anything wrong being gay I'm just saying but you knew that you knew that would make them yeah because they're a problem yeah yeah totally so I would give it like one star and then write this horrific so it made everyone mad at them yes yes and then turn their community against them 100% and then I unblocked him and sent them the links to every review I wrote hoping that like yeah they would walk over and be like like fucking meal yeah who is his bitch in America who's so mad at you yeah so I did that and he didn't really respond he wasn't like oh Lena make it stop and then I surprisingly his name wasn't taken from Instagram so I did an Instagram page of like hi I'm a meal and I like to fuck over people for romance cams and financial ones and that got a little bit of traction but not a lot you know sent him that link he hated that oh my gosh he hated that out for blood this one and then it occurred to me I could set up a grinder profile for no are kidding me yeah um you guys this next part I just want you to listen to with an open heart and an open mind we want to allow everyone of space to share their stories ethically which we feel means in their own words and exactly what happened with the facts and some of you guys are not gonna like this next part we don't particularly condone this next part however we do not judge Lena for her actions in her story she did what she had to do but it does involve gay men and we feel like involving gay people in something like this is so dangerous in the United States like 39 states gay panic is still a defense for murder for murder turkey like it worked out okay in this scenario so it'll be okay but in for you for every we don't want to give anybody ideas okay back to Lena you can buy an app that will change your VPN to be in the city of your choice oh so I made it look like I was him and I lived there and I wasn't sleeping much anyway so why not women and STEM hashtag women and STEM here you go so you know I had enough pictures and then it turns out grinder they like to see dick pics so I had to find a bunch of dick pics I know I know really gross so I set up a nice little album and grinder has a really strange feature called ready now where you don't have to do any texting so yeah you're just ready now wait oh my gosh are you about to like send random men to the rug job sure did okay so tell us what happened so you set it up so that they you just had come on over big boy and they came over and the the nice thing is the store is three levels so I told everybody my apartment was on the top level and just come downstairs ask for email and we'd go up to my apartment and fuck oh my God do you know what happened he just told me to stop but I told you he can pay you to stop he can send that damn money yeah so what happened so what happened did you get your money okay so there's a little bit more okay so he was like calling me like Lena and I was like hey you know I get my money and he was like you like but I love this exploration for you yeah he just kept blaming his boss he's like I can't get it you know half his plenty I was like this will never end I'll never let this go I'll never and I told him I said you know what you got to know something you got to know something about me man you fuck with my heart that's the real issue here it's not about the money I'll make the money back you fucked with my heart it's on I'm never gonna let this go and he was like we we met for one day Lena one day and I go that matter you fucked with my feelings and you got a wrong you have to die yeah yeah like it's over like I'm it's not about the money so yeah he was super mad about grinder and then before I got off the phone I was like hey hey go brush your teeth and he's like why and I go because I got a big old bear coming for you I'm 20 minutes and he likes to be sub so get fucking ready and I hung out you know I was just mad all the time crazy oh my god I love this for us you are so creative you are you think outside the box like they never in their wildest dreams did they expect someone would do all this and I love it I mean they're getting what they deserve and more please continue so I was dragging my brain for another angle and I realized I hadn't pursued TikTok I totally forgot about TikTok I know because I'm not on TikTok it's like when you're 50 you're like I don't want to learn TikTok it's another fucking thing I got a hundred percent so I reached out to my 20-year-old and he's like I don't know how to do TikTok and I was like damn it so I taught myself TikTok and praise be to the TikTok community oh my god it's like wildfire so I set up a cute little profile I was like a 50-year-old solo international traveler her luck ran out when she meets Emil in Turkey on her 50th birthday and people were like oh this story is so good and so I uploaded all the pictures and people just I said I don't need donations maybe I just need you to like share repost make it happen well God himself gave me the best gift because on the third day of my TikTok profile being open Emil's cousin sees the profile and must must have just not been paying attention because he reposted it to his grid no yes and I woke I woke up to this notification and I was like oh my god what a gift what a gift yeah I screenshot that bitch and I sent him a DM that says hey thanks for the support are you a cut too and within 12 minutes he had taken his whole profile down but because the algorithm is algorithm it sends me the whole gang yeah and all their profiles are public so I'm taking receipts I'm taking receipts left right center I got the whole gang now and after I've taken all the screenshots I'm sending messages under all their fucking pictures that are just horrible I mean diabolical like some of them have their children in their laps that I'm like oh the next generation of kids like just I know I know I'm not praying they did awful things to you but I need my goddamn money I'm not normally this person but you fucked up and they're not gonna want those things on their profiles and if that's the way to stop it that's the way to stop it I did it all all at once and so I just love the idea of like they're all sitting around the store and their phones are just popping it's because they all go black at once they all just go oh fuck lean is that it again you know as they all go black on their profiles except for the kingpin no daddy that I never met but I know from the Facebook group that Lily put together that that's the kingpin so when I take all my receipts and I put them together in my TikTok I tag the kingpin and all of them so he knows what's up because because emails been saying oh big daddy won't let me you know release the funds we're gonna do it now bitch you're gonna do it now and that's what happened at least it that's what happened tell me tell me how like did it just appear in your account no no no what happened oh god no so a meal calls me and he's like he's like Lina Lina make it stop I want the grinder dates to stop he goes I want you to scrub the internet and then I'm gonna give you the rest of your money and I go bitch no you're gonna give me my money then I'm gonna scrub the internet and then we'll talk about it yes and he goes why don't you not find the shot anymore he's like acted like a victim he's like well how do I know you're gonna be and I go because I've never lied you're the liar I've never lied and he's like okay and I go so just send the money and then I scrub the internet real easy bro and this is like this is a bargain for you and your homies to get your uh yeah tell yeah so if you don't see that then you really are a dumb businessman so yeah and I said P.S this offer is only good for 72 hours so get it done right now this bitch good for you this is a incredible so he sends the money okay and then he's like you promise and I'm like yeah I promise again I don't lie you're the liar so the money gets wired and he calls me the day gets wired and he's like why haven't you scrub the internet and I said because it says pending okay that shit is not through till it's through it says pending and I show my bank account pending okay when it's through I will scrub the internet so he calls the next day and he goes well my bank says it's gone all the way through and I said okay my bank says it's gone all the way through too and he goes why haven't you scrub the internet and I said because it's Christmas Eve I didn't tell you that we're real busy over here in America I said I'll get it tomorrow so he calls me the next day why haven't you scrub the internet Lena and I said oh I didn't tell you it's Christmas this is the Super Bowl of holidays I'm sorry I forgot to tell you today is Christmas I'm gonna get it tomorrow I'm gonna get it tomorrow so the next thing you trust me and he's like why haven't you scrub the internet and I said oh my god did I forget to tell you it's boxing day I knew you were gonna say that I knew it I was like if you say boxing day right now I got it oh my god my cheeks are y'all and then he goes uh Lena I swear to god I said you are what are you gonna do what are you gonna do God's light you can't do shit but I can I'm gonna get it tomorrow I'm gonna get tomorrow don't you worry he calls me the next day why I'm a he like jugular veins why haven't you I said oh I didn't tell you you're a little cut I'm never gonna scrub the internet you can go to hell and the rest of the world needs to know then I told him in Turkish make God curse your soul hung up on him blocked him and that's the end of our story ladies stop what round of applause round of applause for Lena wow you got your money back yeah I do have to ask they sent you rugs to your address were you nervous at all about the fact that they have your address yes because I'm kind of nervous yes at one point when I was saying you don't know if you're fucking with he was like I'll fuck with you back like I have people that will hurt you I do live in a locked building and Lily told me and I did read this in the there's been a two year long active investigation on this gang there are 19 legal victims there's probably hundreds more of course they were to come they would get busted fast they don't have their passports so they would have to hire somebody to hurt me yeah what is that do I mean I that doesn't benefit them really anymore how long ago is this last this last Christmas three weeks ago yeah me now this is so fresh I mean Mary Christmas I'm glad you got your money back thank you yeah this so my birthday was October 28th this ended on boxing day and it's what January 22nd today yeah yeah yeah I this is really raw for me so are you comfortable sharing how you came to tell this story on our show yeah because and and how does it feel now that you've shared it feels I mean obviously the happy ending is amazing it still feels very surreal yeah I mean I I still my heart aches for people who don't have their money back I think that I think sometimes I just get very emotional thinking about them when this resolved three weeks ago I I felt so sick having to call Lily and tell her my outcome because I had such a survivor's guilt and I I know as a therapist that's very irrational but it still exists and she was so amazing she was like I'm so proud of you and just I just hate that they don't have their money and I asked her for an update on the legal case and she's like it's not good we're never going to see that money because the Turkish government doesn't give a fuck they know there they know their mobsters they don't give a fuck they don't want this bad press because the tourism the tourism oh my god survivor's guilt is a great way to explain that because it's like you got your money back but they didn't so you almost feel bad for yeah I mean you know it's it's by God's grace and a lot of luck and some creativity but like it didn't have to go this way it's just very fortunate it's very fortunate for me but they're just as worthy to get their money back just absolutely absolutely oh man you shared your story on TikTok and have you been able to talk to people in your own personal life about all of it yeah yeah I have you know they're so funny they're just like yeah that doesn't surprise me at all that you got your money back like you're kind of oh I thought that you were gonna say they weren't surprised you got yeah oh no no no no no no yeah I mean like some of your other guests they experienced people who were judgmental but that's that's human nature people who will be uncomfortable with things that you share and I don't think they always mean to be unkind it's hard when you're hurting to tell people hey that's not helpful for something I need right now but education is really the key I would tell people simply because I needed them to repose my TikTok that was it I wasn't telling people for sympathy I was way past that I was fucking anger I just I was like hey this is what happened I have a TikTok tell your friends tell your neighbors tell your dog tell your pastor just share the fucking TikTok because when Emil was learning that there were like 45,000 views if upset him greatly and when I tagged his boss that's when I got my money back so people would be like oh my god how could this happen to you you have a master since psychology you're worldly you travel alone okay that is not helpful not to show the TikTok or not right yeah right or what are you gonna do to help like that then and then they would say oh of course of course that's not what I meant cool I'm glad we agree that's not what you but like I love how you you do advocate for yourself and it is important to hear a story like this because of how strong you are like hearing the way that they were able to manipulate you they're so good at it they're so good at it yeah and you know we can do everything right and it doesn't always matter like it's just so hard out there I wish there was a way for us to just be able to spot every single red flag and every single thing that comes up but it's it's not our fault that we don't we're not built to well you you can't and and I'd love that you guys spend time doing the dissection and the red flag analysis but sugar and salt look the same mm-hmm and I think that again it's winter and salt look the same ooh we need to spend more time on the not blaming ourselves Lord you know when they're professionals at this yeah why would you disappointing because it's it's one thing to not trust someone else but to not trust yourself then you've almost you've done this to yourself is how it can feel and I get that it just sucks yeah oh my god can you talk about how like the difference between supporting yourself and supporting someone else because you're good at supporting other people it's what you do for a living why is it so hard for us to do that for ourselves that's a great question and I spend a tremendous amount of time in my professional work getting people to see that and so it's so ironic that I went to this dark hole for a week because the problem with self-love and self-compassion is that we feel like we miss something and if we had just gotten it we wouldn't be in this predicament yeah and if I had just seen that one thing or whatever and it's actually something our brain does as a survival mechanism so some of it is biology right we think well if I just if I had just not missed this then I couldn't have had this problem I won't have this problem in the future so some of it is evolutionary psychology but the problem is if you ruminate on that then you miss the opportunity to say I'm human and and I deserve compassion and also just thinking about it in terms of the logic these guys are slick they have spent decades perfecting their art and you walk in with trust and empathy and kindness which are all wonderful yeah yeah those are wonderful attributes yeah about them and their culture and their world like those are great wonderful attributes and you they just got misdirected in the wrong way but those qualities directed at the right person could create a lifetime of love and relationship and family just wrong person but like how could you see it when they they you know what looks like banter is really mining for information yeah I mean and that's all we want is good banter this all we want is a connection in a romantic day and that's allowed because the alternative going through life with your guard up is exhausting and I don't want anybody to do that yeah you're right right right I mean I look back on this now and I'm like I have such dark humor about it I'm like I was in a rom calm but also was that bird like a paid actor I mean what was that bird a paid actor yeah oh my gosh I'm just blown away I'm too I'm just a back to the dark magic you know I think for me the very best part of this story is when I was telling my son because we're very close he's my only child and he noticed like right away that week that I was in that dark space and I had come back to drinking and he was like it's going on with you and I told I just can't talk about it yet but I will talk about it when I was like I just need you to know people like this are out there and so I told him the whole story even before I had my money back and when this was all done and the money was back in my account he looked at me and he said something's so cool he said it's so dumb but I just it just is the best part of the story he looked at me and he said mom you're a real G you're a real G I love this for us you're a real G I mean he's a hip hop boy that's a big that's a nice compliment coming from your son though if my sense of that I'd be like I feel so legit like I do I just think like you are like he just meant he's like you're a total fucking G I love this your body yeah you got that money back what do you guys think are you dying are you dying she freaking nailed it has anyone in the history of the dating detectives gotten all of their money back no I haven't heard of any of them getting it but do you remember I mean we always say if you give anyone money lend money even if you think you're buying rugs assume you're not getting the money back which I stand by I always say that never never loan anybody money if you're gonna give somebody money just never expect it back you were giving it as a gift from the kindness of your heart period never expect it back because you will get let down most of the time but every now and then just a little dark magic gets it back in your pocket I am she is so creative she really is but I love that she was like you know what I have nothing to lose like you've taken so much from me and I'm not backing down a lot of people are afraid to stand up for it or come back because they feel like these people are so powerful and they can do all these things and so they're afraid of them but she said I don't care if I'm afraid of them or not like I don't know what they'll do to me but I'm freaking standing up for myself and she did and good for her for doing that. I'm so glad that it worked out the way it did and I we have a couple of things to go through I definitely want to go through like steps that they took in their scam because there were a few very textbook moves that they made yeah okay go through those that's great I mean we always yeah you'll you'll probably have some that I miss for sure we always we know that when you listen to a story in the condensed podcast episode it's very easy to go that would never happen to me and we encourage you not to say that not to jump to that because you really don't know what it's like until you're in it and everyone's experience is different and also she did show me a picture offline and the guy was pretty hot just saying just saying but also yes that's that's a good point Hannah that you make because if you think about it if you're someone who's in this situation and you're actively going through it and they let's say they hurt your feelings or they do something wrong and then you have a couple days to like get over it and process right and then you kind of come back down you're like okay this is and you justify it in your head or whatever but then then it happens again and you it's not in the course of a small period where it's like this podcast you don't have time to process and get over like you're just mad mad mad mad and so it's easier when you're listening after to say oh that would have never happened to me so yeah yeah the umbrella over the entire scam is that she was being loved bombed from start to finish like even the uncle was like vibing with her totally gassing her up then this guy was doing everything like right like gentlemanly he wasn't being like pushy but he was being gentlemanly he played into her expectation of the culture and she was a smart traveler you know she knew her stuff it's not like she is somebody that's this thing they don't just go after if you if you get scammed don't think it's because you're like a dumb weak damsel it's like they know after smart people yep so they okay what was I gonna say the love bombing I love that she was like I have high self-esteem so love bombing makes sense which is just so fun but it was very clear that like she would be rewarded with love bombing when she did what they wanted her to do and it was like they it was kind of like a push and pull I felt like where he would like pull back with the way he'd be really friendly and be like you're part of the family and then as soon as it was like oh well I don't know if I want to get in on involved in that suddenly they made themselves like the victim and they made it all her fault what did he say he was like someone scammed us in the past so suddenly he's the victim he because that gives the other person their victim the opportunity to feel like a hero by doing it so you're basically they manipulated her to put her in a position where she feels like I've got to do this because I can say I can show them that there are good people in this world and so it kind of changes your mindset which is they took advantage of that that's such a manipulation tackle that we never that we don't even think about sometimes and then I thought about the acronym you taught me thog which stands for fear obligation and guilt right yep yep and when someone actually any of those things I was like okay so she is coming off of this night where she in her mind he is implied that like this could be a relationship not necessarily a marriage but she was like I could see this guy continuously we could visit each other travel together like this was not a one off for her like she right thought there could be something and then all of that next morning was like foggy foggy foggy they took her bags away she's a little confused they rushed her for time she had to get to the airport they he disappeared she is like where is he there's fear then she feels obligated he gas lights her into saying you agree to this and then she feels guilty if she doesn't do it it was all right there and that's the that's the exact way that people use fog anyone or all of those things is just another it's just a manipulation tactic and she wanted to nurture that because she's in this point in her life where she's fine on her own but she's also like you know confident enough that she's like okay I can share this with someone and so that sucks that she she got manipulated when she thought she was doing so well you know what I mean like it just sucks it sucks and then after the fact I'm so grateful that she talked about being a mental health professional still going through such a dark period afterwards it's so real and also just the idea that she immediately took the blame I love that we talked about how women always just take the blame like we always are just like oh my god I'm the problem yeah because that's so easy to we're such people pleasers first of all most of us as humans are right and then you want to be a nurturer and you want to do the right thing and you want to give into this idea that like you could be helping them by showing them that you know it sucks they got scammed but now you want to make it right and you can be that hero for them and that's a strong position for a woman to feel like she's in and so they manipulate that take advantage of it and it's just not pretty and then the only other thing I mean just connecting with the other okay Lily and Antarctica that was like funny because it's like what now there's a person in Antarctica like her whole story was crazy and then just while the Antarctica thing I'm like show me a penguin a polar bear something and then she did yeah that's I'm thinking this I I feel sorry that other people did not get their money back but I'm glad that I think she's stopping like I don't know these guys are gonna have to work a lot harder to keep doing what they're doing the businesses around them the reviews that was smart yeah no I think that was real smart and although I don't I don't necessarily condone that it you I mean I'm not mad at I can't say I'm mad at her for doing it I just can't yeah we're not gonna go out and do that but also I listen you know what I mean we want us to be the judge in the jury and we're simply not we're just girls and we want a gab and we want to hear how you survive and gossip safe lives manages 110,000 I'm so I might I mean that might be my next t-shirt like seriously you need to talk to each other and you need to stand up for yourself and she's like I'm going on TikTok I'm going on Instagram if it feels good for you like obviously you don't have to do that if you feel like you just want to put something in your past but I'm so proud of her and inspired by her truly by you too and also just to let you guys know and just to remind you we want to give people a way to share their story in their own words which to us feels ethical and it feels good and just giving them the space to share their story whether or not they write wrong or indifferent it is their story it is their space to tell it it is not like oh well you can tell your story only if we agree with it that's not what we're doing here so I don't I mean and we all know secretly like giggle in at what she did like me like yeah what I mean so I mean I heard a collective hell yeah from our audience as she was telling her story as we always encourage you if you have words of support or if you were inspired by our guests Lena in this case like let us know comment publicly on whatever like forum you're listening or on social media we're dating detectives podcasts because we try to pass those messages along any wonderful supportive comments that you have we definitely want to share it with our our guests who so bravely and courageously share their stories because so often we hear oh I didn't want to share this or I feel so stupid or whatever and so you know just supporting them and hearing other people say oh my gosh me too that's a that's very brave and it's very vulnerable and you guys know how that feels so thank you so much for always being so supportive I love our audience so much I really do I'm so excited to go to patreon and see the WTF moments you guys had I know this episode yes I love everybody talking about it and I want I mean if you guys have other stories of getting money back from scams somehow like I simple as calling the bank and saying the right thing to the bank to sending your friends who do dark magic to scare them like whatever it is we can help each other because I hate to say it we're all going to get scammed at some point like it just happens especially with AI nowadays yeah I mean like she obviously was in person but I think the online space makes everything looks so real it's really freaky it's really freaky that's why I don't trust no screenshots you could be like well here's a screenshot text and I'll be like I don't you could alter that I don't care I don't trust nobody I think that's fair we should do another we did an episode a while ago about pig butchering the scam we did like it came up in a story but then we did a patreon deep dive kind of explaining how that scam works I wonder if we could like look into more and do another scam update let me know if you'd be interested in that guys yeah absolutely anything else McKenzie I'm still blown away like I'm so proud of her good for her we not we love you like I'm obsessed with what she did and I think everybody else is she like like maybe it doesn't solve the problem maybe doesn't fix everything but it just feels good to know that you're kind of I don't know I feel vindicated for something that didn't even happen to me like I just feel like it's like yes someone stood up and that's great and it just feels good karma baby karma got him and karma's name was Louisiana anyways thank you so much for listening you guys we absolutely adore you and as always as always trust you're them to wish him [Music]