The Truth About My MasterChef Debut | Jaime @iGumdrop (Home Chef, Streamer, 2M+ Creator)

The biggest misconception about you is that you're just a hawker on the internet. You can be hot online. You can care about your look, and I think you can still have skills and build a career. That's just a reality of it, and people don't know how to accept that. It was such a big deal for you to go and represent Malaysia on MasterChef. It was probably my closest experience to going to war. Okay. Watch MasterChef, my whole entire life. That's a kid. When it's stuff like that, that's when my adult brain gets put to the side. If you don't do what your inner child wants as an adult, what's the point of even working as an adult? Do you remember when your kitchen was on fire? I do. You still changed camera angles to get your fired blanket out to look cute? That was my contemporary. Content creators, something that I would never fall into the trap of. Any management is like, I'll help you make content ideas. That's my guess. You're the one who has a sauce. You're the one who has a creative experience. Last question. Where'd you deny or where'd you deny? Ooh. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Office drama. - Welcome to Office Drama, where we sit with people going through their biggest career breakthroughs and reveal the drama within I'm your host, Chloe Shee, and today in the office, we have our very first media and entertainment guest. ♪ To me, I come drop again ♪ ♪ I'm like, you're the first ♪ - Wow, with an honor. - Yeah. - Hi everyone. - And everyone's a corporate tech person. - Wow. - Yeah, I've never worked a corporate. - Well, yeah, I've never worked a corporate job in my life. - I'm not sure how I made it here. - People should know you already. If you've watched Jomo, joy of missing out, you have seen Jamie as an iconic guest, who's done the How Modern Dating Works in 2026. - Yeah. - I was amazing. It's all about charm, remember that. And if you've ever followed me on my social media, you'll see that she's made many cameos. We've gotten quite close over the years, but if you don't know her, she is a very fomous streamer. And food creator, who has a master of her two million followers across social media, probably more. She's like growing like crazy right now. And she's also the founder and CEO of Eviko, her lifestyle and apparel brand. What? And this is like a really successful one. You've partnered with crazy companies and people, like Marvel, Pokemon, Millie Pichu, anyone else that you want any shout outs. - I mean, no, I mean, you're so good at. Chloe's so good at talking about me. Like, I don't want to talk about you by yourself. - I'm terrible. - That's something you get from corporate life. - You're outlawing to the people. - As a corporate people are good at talking about them. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I don't know how. So like, one time Chloe connected me to someone. And I saw how you talked about me. And I was like, wow, I need to like wake up in the mirror and talk about myself like this like every day. - Yeah, have your inner Chloe voice. - Yes. - This is what I got to do. And now you are going through one of your biggest career breakthroughs of all time. She's broken through as a reality TV star on the cast of season 16 of MasterChef. (crowd cheering) - The reality TV star! - Next up, Love Island. - Oh my God. - Oh my God. - That would be crazy. - No, I cannot do Love Island. - I mean, the only thing harder than MasterChef might be Love Island. - Nice. - Yeah. - But you could do it. You think so? - Yeah, that is so. - So I am so proud to say that I am a friend of Jamie. And we actually got close in the last year or so. But a lot of viewers don't know that. So Jamie, do you remember how we kind of met? - My first real impression was at the Discord event. - Yeah, but we actually follow each other before that. - Before that. - Yeah, but that was the first time we actually got to talk. - Okay. - And then my second biggest impression was Ian Maggie's wedding. - Oh yeah, that's right, that's right. - Yeah, and that's when Chloe was just getting into content. You were just getting into content. - Wait, but what did you follow me? 'Cause I followed you for a while. - I just thought you were cute. - I was like, there's a cute girl, I just follow. - Oh, yeah. And then when you started doing content, I really followed your journey. 'Cause I mean, I really believe in your content journey. Like we talked about in the wedding and so I did. - We've honestly been through a lot of arcs together. - When you think about it. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Do you remember your first messages to me? - No, what did I say? - There you go. - Oh my God. - Did you message me first? - I message you first. - You did. - Wow, I'm so, I'm so sweet for that. - You're so, you're, yeah. - No, that makes sense. - I would message you first. - Why would you, why would you think that? - You know, I don't message people first. - A lot, I don't do this. - But I think I just really like, I just like anyone who's like focused on their own thing and like, you're creative, but you're also smart. And it was like, I just like felt gravitated towards you. - Wow, thank you. This was when I was a PM at Discord. - Aw. - And I invited her to Discord event. I kept the care at house for like a cons of your brunch. - Wait, I remember the story with your little hair roll. (laughing) I don't even remember it. I said, I love you, you are so cute. You're a little hair roller. - Aw, and then I went to the Discord event. - Yes, yes, yes. - Indeed. - Wow, August 26th, 2023. - Yeah. - Wow, it's 26? - Yeah. - Damn. - I know. - Not like really close. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll take it. I'll take it. - That's crazy. - I feel like it was so organic though. And natural, the rest get close. So we met and then we hung out wedding. And then that was when I was like, I don't know. I think I was asking you for advice and you're like, you're meant to be a world domination queen. And then I wrote in my post it, "Dommie Mommies" by Jamie. And every day I would look at my post and be like, yes, I'm gonna be a "Dommie Mommie." And I messaged her that, I'd comment on her post, like, yay, "Dommie Mommies" for like several months if you never said anything. - I never said anything. - Until the Jomal podcast. - Yeah. - And I was like, Chloe, do you know what "Dommie Mommie" mean? - And I didn't know. And I said, like, don't quite understand it. And I just think it's a really cute phrase. - Yeah, it's a cute phrase when you don't look into it deeply. - Yeah. - But I remember you just had the sauce. Like, creators just have the sauce. - Chloe was literally like, thinking about giving up. Like, maybe I should go back into being a PM again. I was like, "No." I was like, "No, you must go through content. "I need it so well." - So, boy, we met during those times. So, when did we actually fall in love? (laughing) You know, love is like that. It just happens, you know? Out of the blue, it just happens. So, one day we were coming, like, I think I love them. - Gosh, maybe when you showed me your notion, when was that? - Maybe like last year. - Your colors of Chloe notion. - Oh, the strategy dog? - Yeah. - Oh. - I feel like we got closer then, because it was like, I got a glimpse of your world. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - I feel like she-- - I feel like she's your notion dogs. She fell for me from my notion dogs. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say them before. Like, oh, I loved her cooking. I like, like, I hear humor. - I love your notion dogs. - They're really good. Like, I feel like you should sell them 'cause they're such good templates, too. - It's time to sell. I'm gonna be selling notion dogs. - Yes. - Today, tomorrow, soon. - Yeah, sell the notion dogs. - We actually talked like when I, at your place, until 3 a.m. - Yes. - I remember that. - I talked about, like, self-actualization and our higher selves. - Oh, yeah, our higher selves. - You know what, I make sense I was talking about that. I was really in my higher self arc, like, last year. - Yeah. And then you changed a lot. - I have a few questions about your digital footprint. - Oh, yeah. - 'Cause you have such a long history of it. - Yeah. - You've been a concentrator for how many years? - Oh, yeah, it's so long. I've been streaming for, like, 10 years. - 10 years. - Yeah. - 10? - Yeah. - Do you know your most popular Twitch clip? - Shoot, I don't know. Why is that scared? Oh, okay. Yeah, that one. - I'll explain this. - Yeah. So, uh, I used to be a shark. - Oh. - Like, like, you used to be a type racially? - Oh, yes. - I was just really into sharks at the time. And I would always do type-in streams because people loved how fast I typed. - Yeah. - And the funny thing behind this is, I actually blew up in, like, the type racer community, which is, like, huge, by the way. Like, there's a hole behind me. - I do not know that. - Yeah, they just, like, practice typing and stuff like that. And they are really into different keyboards and whatnot. - Yeah. - And I thought it was the funniest thing because someone came to me. They're, like, you're, like, a meme in the typing community 'cause every time, like, someone hits a new record, they're, like, it's still not better than-- - And gum trust. - Do you know your record? - I don't know my record. - And that clip, I think, was 183. - Yeah, I think one time on stream, and I was, like, a little tipsy. I actually hit 276. - Yeah, that was crazy. I don't think I can do that anymore. - 276 is crap. - Yeah, I think at some point, I probably could have won some competitions, but I just never went for it. I have a tendency of, like, you could have won my feet into things. And then, like, when I'm really close, I'm like, "Oh, I don't know." - Do you know your most popular Instagram reel that you posted? - Oh, no. Oh, my, are you serious? - Yeah, this is your most popular. - More than, like, my Jollop video? - Yeah, I think so. When we were looking through it, yeah. - Wow, okay, yeah, this. - This is when she set her paper towel on long fire. - Yeah, I set a lot of things on fire. - It was a good video. - It was a very good video. - Yeah. - In that video, do you remember when your kitchen was on fire? - I do. - You still changed camera angles to get your fire blanket out to look cute? - I did. - Was that your content brain? - That was my content brain. - I was just, like, that was just the. - You're like, "You're gonna do well, wait." I need the right angle for my fire blanket. - Yeah, it was, like, crazy. 'Cause I got so much hate from people being, like, a fire's really dangerous. But I don't know, like, in those situations, like, I get nervous, and then, like, when I'm nervous, I start laughing. - Fair. - And then, also, like, I knew. I knew I was gonna be able to, like, take it out. - Yeah. - But then, again, like, there was a chance I didn't. - So I was, I still didn't know. I didn't have a clip where, like, I'm moving the camera. And, like, I'm just, like, a cycle for that, I don't know. - Yeah, it's pretty funny. - But fire blankets, really good guys. - Yeah, I bought fire blankets. - Yeah. - After I, my chicken went on fire one time, or something. - Your chicken went on fire? - Oh, no, my steak, my steak. - Okay, yeah, that's a lot more fun. - That was so scary. I was terrified. I went to the neighbors. - I ran out. I was like, "Help me, help me. "This is not fire. "What do I do? "What do I do?" - So funny. - Do you know your most popular YouTube video? - Oh, my God. - This animal crossing has to be. - Oh, yeah, it is. - Oh, I don't have a picture of it. Shoot. - But yeah, it's animal crossing. Definitely got all the crossing. because my viewers should pronounce 'cause he was crazy. Like I was like popular among the kids at one time. - You were getting over a million views per video. - I had never felt passion like that before. - I watched your videos and I was like, this is a really good action. I don't know what I'm watching, but she's on to something. - Yeah, they were like so organized. - I was just really passionate about people like playing animal crossing well. So I'll give you a beat and you can perform in my crossing videos. - Oh my God. (laughs) - Okay, okay. - Now this is a story all about how I flip, turn my island upside down and I'd like to take a minute, just read right here. I'll tell you how I mean an island so good, it's not fair. - Going changes for born and raised on the Bellatream Forum. I spent most of my days putting in out cataloging if I was only at all living visitors in the Disney gate when a couple of chatters can incoming some slack started saying Disneyland looks kind of like I did one little tear from my friends got scared. They said your Mickey Disney Tachy is just not fair. - Yeah. - Wow, I did that in one go, first try. - Oh my God. - Oh no, I don't know how I wrap those things. So that's actually really hard to wrap. - That was really hard to wrap. I tried wrapping it last night and I was like, I think she's gonna mess up a few times and probably gonna have to edit it. - Oh yeah, I was, that's actually really hard to wrap. - That was incredible work, Jamie. - I loved it, I loved it. - Yeah, I know what crossing days were crazy. - Yeah, that's a great introduction to Jamie Eyegum Drop. I think we should get to know you on a deeper level. So every guest doesn't exercise called personal shield where they talk about their values role models, turning point skills and where they see themselves in five years and every guest so far has freaked out because I tell them you gotta draw and you got 10 minutes. Everyone has like shuts down. They're like, I can't do this Chloe. I can't, you don't understand, I can't, I'm like, you'll be fine. And then Jamie was like, what's doing? And this is the most beautiful personal shield I have ever seen. Wow, you're, I'm just, I'm just in awe right now. I'm just, I've never seen something like this before. - No. - This is like a kindergarten drawing. - It's like going back to kindergarten. - Take it away, you're turning points. - Okay, this is my turning point. - This is me reaching maximum awareness after moving out and this is me spiritually on top of a mountain. I've never been on top of a mountain, but I have been on top of a mountain mentally in my head. So this is me mentally on top of a mountain and then I'm looking at the city because I'm from the city, but there's like greenery. - The city that is Queens, New York. - But then, you know, like I see the greenery and then I see the ashes and the pollution. - Oh, wow. - But there's sunlight too. And, you know, I've climbed really far in life and I'm just looking at everything in like a bigger perspective. - So I feel like my turning point in life was realizing the power my mind had. - Whoa, what was this? - I would say 23. - Ooh, it's really early. - Yeah, it's really early, but I feel like I've had multiple turning points, but this one was like really big for me. It's when I experienced more of like L.A. and adult life and I saw this whole world that I wasn't exposed to before, like in New York. It was just me like realizing the potential of things, but also like in a bittersweet way. - Mm-mm. - Mm-mm. - And then this one. - This one is my values, so it's just my family. Getting older, I realize I'm much more family oriented than I thought. So if my family's happy, I'm usually really happy. And I think in the future, my value will still be family. - Okay, bye. - I have a question. Where's your brother? - Um, he's a, he's been, he's been Washington right now. - I'll be pursuing his dreams. - Okay. - It's not in your picture. - This is when I was three years old, so he was a born-ass. - Right, right, yes, it is. - Yeah, but I put him here. (laughing) - Okay, what's the bottom part? This one? - Oh, no, the stairs. - Oh, okay. - I first thought it was going to draw a platform. - Oh, okay. - I was like, ooh, I'm going to draw some stairs. So this is me climbing up to something better. I'm giving my parents a better life. - Aw, why do you feel this much for family? - I don't know. - She's an eldest daughter, Taurus. - That's true. - You went through the trenches of living in Queens. - Yeah. - Okay, actually, what is your ethnic background? - My parents are Malaysian. - But I'm like Malaysian Chinese. But I feel like I'm definitely more Malaysian, like culturally, like very Malaysian, culturally. - Okay, my parents were born in Malaysia and raised there. - And then when they move over to Queens. - So the story's really cute. My mom came here when she was 18 with her mom. But a year later, her mom passed away, so I'd never got to meet my mom's mom or my grandma and my mom's side. And then my dad was in love with my mom ever since, 'cause I went to high school together in Malaysia. So he came all the way to New York to America to find her, and then pursued her for a few more years. - I think my mom had him in like a situation shift. (laughing) - She always talks more like all the other guys that she was like talking to you is so funny. I think my mom had a roster. - New York roster. - Yeah, she had a roster. - And then they just like build their life together. My dad would work a lot of part-time jobs. He would do anything like for my mom to pursue a dream. And my mom was studying really hard to work at like the USPS, which is like for a government job, back then for our parents, it's a really big deal. It's a really great thing to land a government job. So my dad was just supporting her throughout that. And she actually didn't have me until her mid-30s. - Oh, really? - Because she was like trying to pass the exam to get a job at USPS. So she had me really late. But yeah, my parents worked really hard. Then she finally had me. She was like scared of getting pregnant. And she had me and then she was like, "Okay, I can have another one." (laughing) - Wait, what did her dad do? - So first, he actually worked at like a Chinese restaurant. - Ooh. - So he has restaurant experience. And then he worked so many different jobs. And he did like contract work, electrician work. And then he worked at Home Depot for like 30 plus years. - This career will survive AI. - Yes! - No, actually. I literally told him I was like, "Wait, is that the career?" - Yeah, actually, yeah. 'Cause growing up, like people ask me, "Oh, what are your parents do?" And like, I hear kids be like, "Oh, my mom's like a doctor or something." - I know. - It's like crazy. Yeah, and now I'm just like, "Wow, this is great." Like now. - Yeah. - Yeah, I can't replace that. - Okay. - What are their personalities like? - My mom is really funny. And she's kind of like chaotic. - She's like savage funnier. She's like goofy funny. - Goofy funny, she's like a child. - Aww, that's cute. - She's like a child type. - Yeah, like she'll just like giggle. - The goofy side of me is probably from my mom. But my dad is also really funny. But my dad is more like savage funny. Like he'll make fun of stuff. Both of them are really clumsy. They're both messy. Like I grew up in a really messy household. It was just like chaos. - Yeah, so now me and my brother are like clean freaks. - Because my brother too? - Yes, I brother too, because like my parents were so all over the place. But I grew up with a lot of like love. Like even if I didn't grow up with money, like I grew up with a really good food and a lot of love. Like it was really my- - Were you in flushing? - I was like near-flushing. - Okay, good food. - Yeah. - Good food. - Yeah. - My dad always cooked food too. - Were you always the soft energy when you grew up in Queens? - When I was a kid, like three, four years old, my parents said I was like a demon child. - All right. Like if I didn't get what I wanted, I would like throw things at the supermarket and just like slam things on the ground. I'm like yell at people and I would like sit on my balcony and throw things at people. And then I got a lot softer and more excited, like elementary school and middle school. And I was really like social. But then in high school, I like shut down. And I became like super depressed. And I didn't have any friends. And I became like so socially awkward. And then I think when I found content, I kind of had that inner child like come out more again. - That's good. - Yeah, so it was a journey. I feel like as woman, you learn how to like surprise yourself to society. And then you re-learn how to undo that. That is true. That is very true. - Yes. - What is this corner? - This is my skills. Ooh. So this is me. - Do you like skilled at winking? (laughing) - Wait till the camera plays. (laughing) - Skill at winking. This is me cooking. This is a big fire. And then I was supposed to draw a camera, but I didn't have time. But I think I'm skilled at performing when I need to in the kitchen. - Yeah, and I'm skilled at cooking. And you know, I have many other skills. And I don't talk about them much. But you know, it's like a, it's like when you look at this, you're supposed to think like hmm, she does look like she has a lot of skills. I don't know what they are, but they're there. - Typing is one of them. - Typing is one of them, yeah. You wouldn't get it from this, but it's there. - I think I saw a clip of you put a noodle on your nose. Oh my God, you did your research. - Yeah, and then I was like, I think I need to stop looking at this now. I can also put like 15 marshmallows in my mouth. - Ma'am? - Yeah, the Chubby Bunny Challenge. You had a lot of time on your hands. I did, it was also just content back then. - That's true, that's true, like they still do that now. - I think another skill you have is assessing someone's nature or essence. Like you have a good gut at that. - You're very intuitive. And you can sense if someone is like slimy. - Yeah, yeah. - I thought about this yesterday. I was like, I think when I meet someone, I can sense their inner child and also their inner evil. - Yeah, I can definitely sense that as well, yeah. - Yikes. Okay, this one. - Okay, this one, marshmallows, the woman in my life. - Oh! - Yeah! - 'Cause everyone holding a heart in the center. - Yeah. - That's so cute. - The woman in my life. - They're all just generic women 'cause I didn't have time to put identities there, but you're one of these. - Wow! - Come on, you don't have like fictional or mentor figures that kind of, oh, yes, I do. - Okay, Cleopatra. - Why? - I only read her fictional novel, but she's just a woman who wasn't a very male dominated world. - Yeah. - And she had to find her. - Tommy Mommy. - Her ground, yeah. And also, Daenerys from Game of Thrones. - Oh, yeah. - She hot, I like her too. - Yeah, she has a line that I really like, come with me to my world or die in your old one. - Ooh! - I love that light. - A dangerous woman. - I think about that all the time. Like, if I'm. angry. Like, you don't respond to my email, like come to my world or die on your own. I just like, Jamie just behind the laptop, simmering. Okay, where do you do stuff in five years? Okay, this is a house and this is my parents. So hopefully they're happy in their new house that I bought them with my money. This is me on a floaty with sunglasses with my money. Yeah, but I mean, I actually should think about this. I think this is a blurry one for me because I actually haven't thought about what I want in like five years. It's like a weird time for me because the next five years could look really different. It could. It could. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing your personal shields. This is my personal shield, everyone. I didn't really want to go through your entire family history and lore because you already went over that in your episode with Eric on the carrot podcast. Yeah. And I think that if you want to see like her lore and entirety, you can watch that episode and this is more focused on modern, but we'll do a quick recap. Basically even streaming since 2017. Yeah. Before that, you were like a hustle kid. You were like a crazy like a creams kid. You could duck things out and you had a rough upbringing. Was it from a low income family? Yeah. It's a lot of people. It's a low income schooling and so you meet people who are like hustling and grinding and a lot of people are not home. Yeah. So I had my little side businesses. I would like buy stuff wholesale from China and then I would sell it and like I would go to like Chinatown or their Bronx to like sell things when I was like in seventh grade. That's awesome. Parents are like, where are you? I was just coming home. Yeah, I would really catch something and I was hiding in my piggy bank. But it's because I knew my parents like didn't have the money to get me the things I wanted. And so I wanted like a $1,000 camera when I was like in eighth grade because I wanted to get into photography. And then I think I got it on sale for like $550. I saved up for it. And then honestly, I feel like I'm really good at photography now. So I feel like a lot of skills I built from like 12 to 16 really stuck with me like video editing. She's really good at it. Yeah. Just cracked. Thank you. You're cracked too. But yeah, but you're you're a different type of cracked. Yeah. I want to watch your stuff all day. This is some real animation work that you're doing. Oh, thank you. And you design and you were a CS major. I was. You guys know that. And you did people's homework for money. I did do people's homework for money. I don't know how you. Before Chatchy BT guys. Yeah. Before Chatchy BT. Like I would literally do people's science labs without Chatchy BT. I would just like rewrite it because my typing speed helped a lot. Yes. So I would just like write people's science labs and like charge them like $30. Yeah. And then one day you were invited to LA. So I was started streaming and my friends. I always want my first one. Okay. Okay. Also Kimi. Yeah. Like come to LA. And so I've been like my third year CS or whatever. I hate it. I'm like really struggling. Why are you laughing? Because I was like really struggling. Like it was like three years of lying to myself that this is what I wanted to do. Okay. Okay. But it's because like if you come from a low income family like you don't have the privilege to really like I couldn't like choose to go to culinary school. Yeah. I was like if I'm gonna pay for college. Let me I force myself to choose a STEM major just so I could like at least make some money when I got out. So you don't identify the STEM girl. I think I still do just because I'm so like tech savvy. You are. She's very. But I definitely can't get down and dirty like the regular STEM girls. Like some of them are dirty. Yeah. They get down and dirty. And I just like after an hour. I'm like I'm typing out. I got to go like paint or something. Like I got a meditate or something. So your friends with Kimi and Arya. Yeah. I go to LA. And this is when I had like 90 viewers or something. And I go to LA. I'm staying at Arya's. I'm staying in her living room. And all of a sudden like my stream starts getting like 300 400 viewers. I was on my winter break. And I had like two weeks before I had to go back to school. And there was actually a professor in my next semester. And he was like if you can pass the final on the first day, like I'll give you an A for the class and you don't have to come anymore. Just like crazy. That's crazy. And then I was studying right for 24 hours until I just like stopped studying. And I just dreamed like for like two weeks. But for some reason my viewership like hello went up during that time. I go in from like 100 viewers like 300 400. But just like a really big job. So I was like you know what? Like I love streaming. I told my parents I was like give me a semester like let me pursue streaming. And then I just never went back home. So you had a drop-out. I had to drop out. Yeah. It was a big conversation with your parents. Your immigrant parents. Or we're like I can't control this demon child. I think it's more like that. I didn't even give them a choice. Especially as the eldest daughter. And they just had to trust me. Like they just really had to trust me. And obviously we couldn't have the conversation if I wasn't home. That's true. So it's a weird trip. Were you living? You're just living with Ariya. I was living with Ariya and then I moved into Kimmy's living room. I'm living room. Okay. Yeah. So I was in two living rooms. I actually loved my living room life. Like I think about it all the time. I was such a minimalist. So that was like 2017. But then you did that for many years. And then you were like four years later. I want to stop and do ebiko. Yeah. Like two months later. Like that's when streaming blew up. I was streaming blew up. And then I was getting like thousands of years. And then over a lot of years passed by. And then I'm like depressed again. So like throughout my whole life, like I have depressive periods because I chase like the biggest thing in the next movie. And then I'm like, oh, life is pointless. Like what's the point? And then I'm like, I found something unique to live for again. So like that's like where I was at. And then I was like, I don't know what to do. I'm going to start a clothing brand. Where did that idea come from? Just because you already like fashion animal crossing. Yeah. Yeah. It does. The animal crossing videos blew up. And then I was like, I really want to make an animal crossing like style hoodies. I did the color block hoodies. And then I was like, I really enjoy this. And I already had experience from my hustle days. So I was like, screw it. I'll do like a clothing brand. And so that was like a few years of my life. And I learned a lot. That's probably my closest experience to corporate. Because I got I had to like work with a lot of people. And I learned it's rough out there guys. It's so rough. I had no chat GPT guys like the business. I built a business with no chat GPT. You learn all the SKUs. You learn the product launch. I had to write my SKUs like one by one is crazy. Oh my gosh. Okay. So because I'm still around because there's still an inventory but you're winding it down. Yeah. We took a break because I just went so hand like we did a collab with Marvel. And then I did like a bunch of creator drops. So it was a lot like running a business is hard. And doing content alongside it is even harder. So I think I it served what I wanted it to do for me. And so we're winding it down now. Like we still do restock and stuff for some creators. But clothing brand stuff like it's not my main focus right now. And then after that like I really went into cooking. Was that two years ago or like what's the timeline? I would say three years ago I started cooking on tree. Oh yeah. And two years ago I really started pushing short form content. Cooking. Yeah. Last year was when you wound down Abiko. Yes. Okay. Got it. And I was like finishing up everything. What was the thought process going from dude I think because not my direction I want to focus on something else. What is that something else? What was what was going through your head during that time? I would say to build a business you have to be set like a little insane to be honest. Like you have to really really love it. And I could tell like yeah like I did love it but I love being talent so much more. Like I loved being content so much more and I made me realize how much I love like creating things. And I wanted to put myself in front of the camera again and building a business as a very you're just like in your room like oh yeah just slaving away at your own. It's like you're slaving away at something that you coordinated for yourself. And then you're like why did I do this? You need a really strong like why to run a business. If you were to go back to your one Abiko Jamie would you tell her? Probably a bunch of like financial advice. All right tactical. Very objective things like I think during the pandemic there was like relief funds for businesses and I had no idea. That's right. I didn't grab that. I should have grabbed that. And like you know hard running a business like it's not for the what is your MBTI? I am ENFP. Strong representative. ENFP. Yeah. So you wanted to find your where you're creatively gravitating towards. Yes I wanted to find like what I was really passionate about. And I do love the camera and I think like expressing myself in the camera like I really enjoy it. But at the same time like Abiko taught me something good good things. It was the corporate life I kind of needed or like lessons that I would have learned in corporate I think. And then you realize you want to be your own talent and creative. Yeah. Go more into cooking from gaming to cooking on Instagram or more mainstream. And I remember you were trying to stream a little less. I was. But then you got nominated for the stream rewards. I did. No literally that's it. Last year was so spiritual for me because when I did my business there was no spirit allowed. When you run a business there's those spiritual like spirit allowed. Okay. You have deadlines like there's numbers, there's taxes, there's forms. You don't have time to like think like what will be mine? What will be mine? I can't believe you don't do it in a business you're not going to get it. So I completely like I actually was ENTP for that longest time. Also you changed yes yes. Yeah. I was ENFP and then when I was running Abiko like I completely turned ENTP like I was like I have to be so logical. And then last year I was winding Abiko down. I was just like you know I'm going to be my life spiritual sounding in. And I was like what will be mine will be me. And what came out of that? I just let go and then so many things came to me. And I was like this is so weird. I think it's because when you let go there's genuinely more space for more to come in. And you can probably see more of it too. So I think I have something called logical spirituality. Whoa what's that? I don't know I just made it up just now. Wow that from skipping the goal man. Yeah I like to put logic on my spirituality. Okay. So I understand it, but I also accept like what's good in it. So for example, have you ever felt like you dreamed something and then it happened? That'd be terrifying, but I love nightmares. Okay, I think like a lot of people do have that and they'll be like, well, like that's really crazy. But I think logically it's because we dream a lot in our brains and it's like in a vulture. And so when it happens in real life, it like opens that vault in your brain. So it makes you feel like you're psychic. Whoa. Yeah. But also at the same time, like spiritually, I feel like, hmm, why did I have that dream? So at the same time, like thinking about it logically, but I'm also accepting it spiritually. Does that make sense? Okay. Oh, okay. I know, but I'm struggling, but like I accept it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. A lot of things came to you that you let go of. Yeah. What were those things? I mean, I like how streaming. I was just like, let me just stream and I kept going when I come back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then like I randomly got nominated for streamer awards and I was like, wow, thanks, guys. And then I would say even like opportunities, like I feel like my brand deals last year were good. And I like stopped bringing about it that much, too much last year. I think you were going through like hard stuff last year. Yeah. I was in the beginning. Friendships as well. Yeah. Personal things. Yeah. Finding your your piece. Yeah, last year was was rep. I was like going through a lot of like friendship breakups. Yeah. Dating breakups. My family dog died last year. Yeah. That was hard. But you know what? Like last year was still a really good year. Like I remember thinking like I really stepped into my identity last year. And what is that? It's a good question. Okay. So what were you before? Oh my gosh. I think like I was not as confident and secure. And I cared less about other people thought. And I was really about like what I thought of myself. So we're still working on that. Yeah. It's really hard to do. It's hard. It's hard. Yeah. Summer is officially here. 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I personally buy so much from Quince like they have everything from a pearl to bedding and bat to kitchen essentials. In fact, I got their performance bouquets, swivel chairs, their bouquet, love seat, their crystal, drinking glasses, their breakfast, bowls, their cotton fisherman throws. And I just got in the mail. Their maternity clothes for me to prep for the baby. They really have everything. So make your summer wardrobe feel easier. Go to Quince.com/office drama for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/office drama for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/office drama. A lot of it is like, I guess letting go of your old identity with the people that were part of this chapter is probably. Yeah. Or just say like you learned about how you value friendships, relationships, connection. Is there a certain thing that helps you gain connection with someone? And what makes you lose connection with someone? I think for me, it's not about like the trait someone has. They could have so many flaws and I would not mind as long as you both want each other to grow and you both want each other to have a safe space. That's what's important to me for connection. Because I think of it as family. You can't choose who your family is and your family's going to come with flaws. I see friendship the same way but it's like who's going to be there and show up for you at the end of the day and also want the best for you and want to grow with you and who can you imagine like a long-term life with. I think that made me more selective about like where I think spend my energy. Were you just giving it out? At some point I was like any ENFP knows. It's like yeah, what's up? Come on. Come into my space. Yeah, just like yeah, come on in. We have a house analogy like Kimi and I talk about it sometimes. I think it was me and Kimi where like you can imagine like houses like introverts have their own house. Yeah, yeah. When they want they like leave their house and they visit other houses and then they go back to their house. And then I describe my house as like a glass house that everyone can see into. Everyone just like comes in like hey, Jimmy, hi, hi. And then like after while I'm like hey no, get out of my glass house. I feel like I still have a glass house because of social media. Now I have like a fence over it with some like pretty flowers. Nice. I love pretty flowers. And now like to get into my house like you need to like sign the wait list. You do. Like the KBBQ places. That's true. You are a KBBQ restaurant. Yeah. I think that's something I learned too. I think that you know or I don't know I think just coming to LA. Does anyone I guess any city in San Francisco? What not? New York? You just have a lot to. I think I do. You like talk to so many people. Like she has a person for everyone. It's crazy guys. I try to. I try to. I think it's good to learn about people's lives. I think what was like confusing to me about LA was that some people have fake jobs. Oh my god. I've never met so many like confusingly unemployed people. Yeah. So but they're fun employed. Yeah. So as have I felt like oh everyone you know had a job. Yeah. But in LA people would just say oh yeah, they're a founder of like their agency founder. Everyone's a founder here. And then I just see them on a Tuesday at the beach all the time at the mall like hanging out doing nothing out of the party. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like I see you at every freeing event. Yeah. And you always invite me to all these events. I'm part of all. When are you working on your job? I literally have no idea how some people are like living. Yeah. It's like inspiring. I'm like I'm like I'm so confused. And then when it came to like business partners, I was like oh this is hard. It was actually hard to really grasp. And the only way you can get that information is either you get reference checks or you work with them directly and then you fall. And you like have your trust broken. If you like that was a cycle in LA. Yeah. Learning that was a lot. But I think that you went through so much like letting go. And I'm so glad I caught you during a good time. We did catch each other at a good time. Do you think we'd be friends if if you it wasn't a good time? I think we'd still be friends. Because I'm like addicted to like I gravitate towards people who will improve me. Oh yeah. Yeah. Like I've never been afraid of that. Like I'm a self-gross junkie. Yeah. I'm a self-gross junkie too. That's why I gravitated a lot towards Arya because she's also someone like that and she'll just tell it to you straight. And I like I love it. I'm just like tell me the broad seat. I like that. That's a lot. Yeah. I'm very straightforward. And then you at the end of last year decided to audition for MasterChef. I did. Actually I applied I think August. I then I applied an hour before the deadline. That's so last minute. Because everyone thought I got scouted but I did it. Okay. Okay. Something just called me to apply. And like on stream people are always like when are you going to go on MasterChef? Like at the joke. Why is that a thing? Because you did cooking. Because MasterChef is huge in the Twitch community. Yeah. Like everyone has been watched MasterChef like on stream before. Interesting. So it's a huge thing. And then people would be like go on MasterChef. Like it's just like a meme sort of. And Monday I was like you know what? I just might. So I applied. They get back to me a day later. They're like we're interested. Like can you finish this whole application? The application process is crazy. And to get on reality TV like they they do intense background checks. I had to sit through like a 400 question error about like mental health. It was crazy. They were like what's the worst thought you've ever had? And I was like oh I had a lot of bad thoughts. I had to like really think of a not bad thought but still kind of bad thoughts. So I was like I don't know. I wouldn't mind of like the world ended tomorrow. And they're like I was like wait I don't even think that's that bad. Like compared to my other bad thoughts. I was like I thought that was pretty team. Anyway it's a good thing. It was okay. I still passed. Have you ever found out what would be a not pass? I think they really search for things that are like terrible. Like that will affect people's like health or like safety. Oh I see. I'm gonna make sense. Yeah. So I think that's I don't think they thought I was a threat. Okay. But you still have to go through. It's a natural protocol. And then I have to send in 20 outfit submissions. Oh yeah you did. Yeah. And I was like 18 out of 20 like had a mini skirt. And I was like hopefully they like let this through because there's not many options. And then they actually did let me wear mini skirts. Good. Up until episode five. The team challenge episode and they like check the screenshots of that episode with me. Like I'm wearing like a white mini skirt. And the thing is wardrobe team and production team work separately. So they had no idea. I would be doing a challenge where one it's at a soccer field. And two it's in front of your feeding a hundred kids. So they're short. Oh yeah they're short. I'm really running around like pulling my mini skirt out. And I mean it was a really cute outfit. I'm really glad I got to wear it. After that they're like Jamie like the officer cute but can you tell her we're gonna have to have her wear only pants from now. We're like long skirts. When she puts your apron on like it looks It's like she's not like wearing anything. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. - Oh, okay, okay. So then after the team episode, I'm dressed very conservatively. - I mean, they've seen your Instagram, they knew what they were signing up for. - They did, they did. - Yeah, they did know, yeah. - When did you get accepted? - Like, you were on. - I was always like accepted. I think by the time it was like October, but they always say things can change. So it was not really completely a hundred percent. And so during that time, I was so anxious. I was like, oh my god, like what if they don't want me anymore? (laughing) - I was like, I can't even think about like, like a boy talks to me or like tries to deem me. I can't even think about that right now. 'Cause I'm too busy about thinking like a master chef wants me. (laughing) - Was it busy with the boys back then? - No, 'cause I was like so focused on like, this stuff. - They were trying talking to you and you're just like, please don't wait. (laughing) - Yeah, I'm like, I know what I really am, so bachelor chef, I don't think. - I knew it was real once I got there. And I was like, holy, like this is real. - Yeah. - Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You saw that our prep dishes. I remember you were really busy. - I was really busy. - I remember you were in hell of busy. I had to prep like four different dishes. A dessert, like a signature dish, a seafood dish, a protein dish, blah, blah, blah. And I was like practicing trying to cook in 45 minutes. How do you do that? I don't know how I did it, but I can cook really fast now, guys. - That's great. But during Q4, that means you were just like locked in in master chef, but you still had your content. - I did. - You still had evico, you still have friends. You can really tell people. - I can tell people. - And you still have to pay your friends. - Yeah. - Like for me, if I ever get casted on anything or a big project, I'm just like, when am I gonna work? And they're not gonna pay me. So how am I supposed to make money? And how do you make that career decision? Was there a world in which you were like, I think this is not really worth my time? - I was making money. - I was making cold feet at some point. - Mostly because I didn't know how it would do. Like I could have gone on the show. I could have wasted all this time and go on the show and then like become a fool on TV. And then like, I have damaged my career instead. And I'm like, ah. But like, I wanted to take the risk. - Yeah, yeah. - Like things that are like out of my comfort zone. - Yeah. - And I was like, if there's a time for me to be out of my comfort zone, it's now. - Yeah. - So you knew logically, you just had to do it. - Yeah, and my heart felt like it was right. Like my heart wanted it. Like when I woke up in the morning, I was like, check my email, like, do they want me? I couldn't ignore it. Like my inner child wanted to do it. 'Cause I've watched MasterChef like my whole entire life. - Yeah. - That's a kid. When it's stuff like that, I think that's when my adult brain gets put to the side. Because like if you don't do what your inner child wants as an adult, like what's the point of even working as an adult? You know what I mean? - That's true. - 'Cause we're just like building stuff so that we could feed our inner child. - Yeah. - So I was like, she was being fed at that time. - Yeah, but then I put her to work. - Yeah, that was-- - In the MasterChef. - That was a lot of work. We were going to a little crazy back then. You said it would be really good for your career. Like why do you say that? What does that mean for you? - I think I had a very like, ah, she just puts on a mini skirt and cooks and gets views, type of branding before. - Yeah. - Like of course some people knew me. Like they were like, hey, no, she's built something. She's built a Vicovovo law. But like for the most part, like I did experience things even like in the industry where I could tell people like under-estimated me and me. - Yeah. - So I wanted to prove people wrong. - That you could cook. - That I could cook. And you know what? I think you can be hot online. And I think you can care about your looks. And I think you can still have skills and build a career. Like that's just a reality of it. And people don't know how to accept that. - Yeah, multi dimensionality. You can be both hot smart rich. - Yeah. - It's true and talented. - Yeah, I think that that is the biggest misconception about you that you're just a hawk girl on the internet and that that's why you're so popular or whatever. And that's how you get anything. But you have so much more than that. Like getting to know you was fascinating. 'Cause I was like, I didn't know she had it like that. I don't know if she was crap like that. I don't know if she could type like that. I don't know if she could cook like that. - And you're such an access service person. Like you're always so like thinking about everyone in the room and making sure everyone feels included. You've done so much like just 'cause you like it and you enjoy making people feel happy. - Yeah. - And you're so talented and smart. And you're really good at giving dating advice. (laughs) - I am good. - I can build your own website, your brilliant creator. You know how audiences and psychology work. They're just like so much to you. - Aww. - But then I remember we were talking less to you and then you were like, yeah. I think I still want to be a hot girl for like little two more years and then I'll retire. (laughs) And I was like, what do you mean? What does retirement mean? Wait, why was this a choice? - So funny, yeah. Okay, because I think long term. - Yes. - Super long term like deathbed long term. So I actually skipped the five, 10 year plan and I go straight to the 50 year plan. - All right, deathbed plan. - That's why my execution is not great. Because like, I can't be skipping that, you know? - The time it feels quite long. - Yeah, I think of like when I'm in my deathbed and I'm like, damn well, what I want, Jamie to do in her 20s and I'm like, you better be out there like being hot and like, I'm so inspired by like Marilyn Monroe or like Britney Spears, like these really iconic stars that were able to express themselves when they were younger. When I'm like a grandma, like I want a photo of myself and like a hot bikini in the bathroom, you know? - Yeah. - And my grandchildren to see like, okay, like. (laughs) - They should know, they should know. - I'm so. - Knowing that, like I gave myself permission to just do it because I know that like the internet was not going to give me permission to do like, the stuff that I did or to post the stuff that I did. And so I kind of like felt adrenaline from that. I wanted to just like do it for myself. So that was really empowering. But yes, I said two years because I feel like I would love to start a family one day or just like I would love that life, you know? I mean, I think you know me personally now. I feel like I do love the wifey life. - Jamie's more excited about my baby than I am. - I'm so excited. - She bought our first baby outfit. - I did it. - I was like, I'm so excited for Chloe's baby. - Jamie's mom also went shopping for us. - Yeah, we're both very excited. - Yes. - And she's texting me all the time. She's like, make sure Chloe like eats this. - It's real life on that case. - That's so nice. Did you tell her the gender? - No, not yet. - Did you tell her the gender? - Yeah. - I want to hear how she read. - I want to see her reaction too. - She's gonna be like, I knew it. (laughs) - You accepted yourself and you wanted to be hot and then you also wanted to be on MasterChef and you're like, a girl can do it all. And I want to show that a girl can do it all and that's why you went on MasterChef. - Yeah. - But also after MasterChef, I fell asleep for like four weeks. - That's true. - So beautiful. - A girl can do it all, but also she needs her rest. (laughs) - Yes. - But you couldn't tell people. I think you told me in December, maybe. - I think I told you in December because you were coming. So I had to tell you ask me to come. Me, Arya, Kimmy. - Yeah. - To show up as your friends and family. - Yeah, you're the side of your kitchen table. But then at the time, how did you know how to keep that secret and then what were you telling people to cover up during those times? - You know, I disappear a lot. So it was so hard. - It was so hard. - It was like normal. People were like, Jamie's gone. That's normal. I just disappear like that. But I did tell some of my friends I was like, hey, don't tell anyone. But I'm going to space. (laughs) And how do people react? - And I told Johnny and he was like, what? (laughs) And I was like, yeah, I'm training to go to space. I don't know when it's going to happen, but I might be away for a few months. And he was like, oh my God, that's so cool. (laughs) And then I also told my friend, Blow. I told a few people and then Blow came over to pick something up. But he was like, Jamie, come on in. I know you're not going to space. - You got all too proud. - Yeah, he was like, you got to trade for months. You have to have a strong body to go to space. - You do? - Yes, you literally have to train for like six months or something because it's really difficult to go to space. And then Blow was like, I know you're bullshitting. What are you actually doing? And I was like, um, just take your Christmas present and go. I'm like, it's going away. But a lot of my friends were like, they didn't question that I was lying. So the moral of story is, just lie. You can lie to your friends, but just know they'll believe you. And I only lied because I knew I was eventually going to tell him the truth. - Yeah, yeah, that's true. And so when Johnny found that, I didn't go to space. He was like, very disappointed. But then I was like, but I went on mass. He was like, oh, okay, Johnny's so funny. - He's so funny. - Okay, so like, what was it like being on set? Like, what was that first day? Were you scared? I feel like first day of high school. - Oh my God, it was first day of high school. And like, we had a room where everyone was meeting up so they could give us instructions. And it was like a home room. And I was freaking late. So like, they started talking and I had to walk in the front. Like, 'cause I was like, three minutes late. It felt like high school so, it was not that big of a deal. - It was more like eight minutes. - Okay, got it. - Yeah, okay. - And then it was to the point where one of the castmates later on, like Pete, when we got closer, he was like, you know, like, you remember the first time we had like that home room, like, why were you late? (laughing) And he was like, damn, like, you just got to like that, huh? - Just like late. - And then after that, I was always on time, like I made sure, but it gave me so much respect for production because they had to do so much. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, I cannot not be on time. Like, this is some crazy-- - Only a call times. We had to be at the front for the bus at like 7 a.m. Sometimes 6.30. Like, we had a 6.30, we had a 6.30, yes. And then we would get home at like 11 a.m. because we would have interviews too. - So it was crazy, like, I had no time to-- - I had no time to grind makeup. - I had to do my own makeup, but I mean, I would have opted to do that anyway. So I feel like you would break out. Like, I feel like that kind of schedule makes some people break out. - Yeah, so as the episodes go on, I just look worse and worse. I'm so tired. And then at some point, I was like, dude, if what I look like, it's about the cook. - I didn't make sure. I need to make sure my protein's cooked. Like, I cannot care about my hair right now. So like, the castmates and I meme all the time. A lot of the castmates are actually like so attractive. And we meme all the time that like on MasterChef, we just like could not care because like, it's so important that the cook is so important, you cannot waste time on like reapplying your lip gloss or whatever. - Damn. - It was like the probably my closest experience to going to war. - Okay. Okay. - That's true. - That's true. - That's a competitive spirit. [BLANK_AUDIO] - Spirit, camaraderie. - What were reality versus expectations for you being on set? Like, what were you thinking? - I had no expectations. - Really? - Did you do like some researcher? - I think my expectation was the worst case scenario. Like, I was like, oh my gosh, like, what if? - You got a villain edit? - Yeah. - What if I got a villain edit? I was so scared I would be the social media star, like, each shit on real-end TV. I was like, really scared. Like, if I didn't get my apron. And actually, like, before I did my apron test, I was like, reassuring myself to be okay. People are gonna be proud of you for even trying. And I don't think that's what have been the case. Like, if it came out and I didn't get my apron, I think people will just shout on me a little bit. So I'm glad I got the apron. - Yeah. - But I would say my expectations were on myself. And I had to face reality with myself. So one, I definitely, I'm more capable than I think I am. - Yeah, she is. - 'Cause I literally didn't think I was gonna get my apron. I was so scared. I was like, I don't know if I can get my apron. Like, I kept, like, comparing myself to other cooks. I don't know if you remember, like, in the audience, like when you were watching, like, I kept saying, like, how competitive it was gonna be. - Yeah. - You're being like this. - Yeah, I was, like, already giving up on myself. I love giving up. Like, if you guys know me, like, my favorite thing to do is to give up. - Why? - 'Cause it feels so good. Like, it feels so good to just give up. But what I do is I fake give up. - Okay. - So I'm like, I can't do this anymore. I'm gonna give up. And so I let myself give up for, like, 30 minutes. And I'm like, oh, like, yes, I can just, like, be a vegetable, like, freely. And it's fine. Like, I'm a piece of shit and it's fine. And then afterwards, I'm like, okay, you gotta get back up. And, like, not actually give up. So I don't actually give up. But the idea of it is so relieving to me. - Yeah. 'Cause that was my journey on MasterChef. And, like, if I did it again, I would just, like, not be so hard on myself. - You were really, like, come on, teaming. - Yeah, yo. - How did you find support during that time? - Probably, like, my castmates going through the same exact thing. And so it was another thing where it's, like, usually my content career, I would felt really alone. Or, I mean, what we do can feel more isolating at times. - Yeah. - Especially because our vision for our career, it feels isolating a bit, only you understand your vision. And maybe, like, the few people you're working with. But even then, only, like, you really understand your vision. So, being in a space where I understood everyone's vision for themselves, and it was exactly the same as mine, like, in the kitchen. That was crazy. I was, like, I'm not special. But in a good way. - Yeah. - And, like, these are the top of the top. - Yeah, like, these are people who, this is show cooking. - Love cooking. Yeah, just show cooking the wars. - This can change people's lives. These are people who have been cooking, like, some even longer than me. Some just, like, started before me, but they, like, practiced so hard. It was, like, really inspiring to be here on that. - Did you have a crush on anyone? - Ooh. - I'm a master chef. - Wow. - Girls are okay. - Wow, let me think. - Did your heart move? - We don't have to explain who, 'cause I was there. (laughs) - I mean, Gordon Ramsay is really charming in person. Like, he's so charming. So, what you see on TV, it's, like, that in real life. He's really professional. - He's so professional. - He's so nice. - He's really sweet. And I think, like, I could really see that he was a family man. - Yes. - I really saw that. And how he treated the cast members, yeah. - Did you make any enemies? (gasps) - Do you have ops? Or are you the op? (laughs) - That'd be crazy. (laughs) - No, I feel like, okay, obviously there's things that happened that, like, you guys might not see. - Yeah, there's things that happen, like, you're in a high stress situation. People are on, like, four hours of sleep. You're in front of the camera. The lights are on. You're sweating. There's, like, six stoves on. Like, obviously, like, drama's going to happen. But, at the end of the experience, it feels like you all went to war together. So, you can't really, there's so much respect there. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You know what I mean? - Yeah, you had a good cohort. So, I remember being on site, like, day one and a producer went up to me and was like, "You excited to be on MasterChef?" And I was like, "I literally have never watched this show "but she was so excited." - Oh, I do. I'm not really sure how this format works. - If you watch her on TV, it looks like she's, like, an Omega fan, but she's, like, never watched the show. - Oh, what does it mean, get an apron? Like, aren't you already wearing an apron? (laughs) What do you mean? - That's so funny. - I know. - We need to do, like, a future segment where, like, I guess corporate terms and you guess, like, gamer terms. - I feel like that'd be so funny. - I'm a bottom-fragger. - Oh, wow, who taught you that, Kevin? Who did he call a bottom-fragger? - I don't know, but I would, did you. - Frag today? (laughs) - I don't know. - Were you a bottom-frag today? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I tried to learn. I tried to learn. - That's cute. - Yeah, I do my best, the vocabulary I'm keeping up with. - Yeah. - We'll do that. The corporate terms are not that fun. So we can skip that forever. - Or cooking terms. - Cooking terms aren't good. - Yeah, do you know what a crudite is? - No. - I didn't either until a team episode. They were like, I was paired with team year up, like Asian year up. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And they kept saying these fancy, like, European words. - Ooh. - Like, let's make a crudite. And I'm like, I don't know what a crudite is. It's raw vegetables. - I didn't know, well. (laughs) - I was like, why didn't I just say raw vegetables? And I know what a crudite is. - Why don't you just say it as it is? - Yeah, so there's a lot of terms for her things where, yeah, you know. I think that you, well, I'm so glad that Arya came in and I got to support you. It was really fun for us and guys. - I'm so glad you guys came. - We'll definitely do a debrief with the girls. - Oh. - We're gonna do a chaotic criminal. - We will, yeah. - We're happy about everything every day, 'cause it's gonna be funny. - It's gonna be really good. - Yeah, it's such a funny time. - Yeah, we came in, we had like little pitchforks. So, she printed out big face in mine. - Yeah. - And every day, like, they were like, can you bring the Jamie face again for continuity? - Yeah. - Actually, it was like a little problematic, 'cause they were like, we don't have copyright for that. And I was like, but I took it. - Ooh, and then she gets a side. - Yeah, to sign my waiver. - I'd be like, yeah, you can use this forever, whatever. - Yeah, we're bringing those faces in, we're bringing them in. It's so good, I know, so had a good time. But then we left after you got your apron and then you went through your time, the rest of the show. And then you came back. - I did come back. - And then you veged out for four weeks, a month. - You slept. - Yes, you had literally veged out for a week. - It's crazy, 'cause I've never put my body in adrenaline or survival mode like that. - Really? - For like that long. - Yeah, it was crazy, yeah. - So your body crashed or like, what was that like for you? - So I was like, before I even went on MasterChef, I was having a lot of health problems. - Oh, I remember, you were so sick last year. - I was so sick last year. - You had like that thing in your throat. Like my tonsils were sliced, it was really bad. Like I had to go on antibiotics like four times last year. I was sick the whole year. I don't know why, but then I went on MasterChef and I wasn't sick the whole time. I didn't have any problems. And I think it's because when your body is like in survival mode, you know, yeah, it'll work. - For you. - It will. - I'm like, dang guys, like humans are powerful. Which is why I would do it again because I was like, that was really effective. Like, I was like, yeah, I can sleep for four weeks. - Those are people, they usually get sick after they're finals because you're like, so tense up and then right after, you just get sick immediately. - Yeah, so afterwards I was like, sick again. I was like, oh my God, I'm so tired. And then like also, I was so disassociated because I was in this like bubble of an experience. - Yeah, no phones. No phones, cameras everywhere. I really got close to like production of my castmates. And all of a sudden, they're not with me anymore. And then like, it was weird. Like, my world was a little grave when I came out because I was just gone. And it was like so confusing for me. So it was nice to see my friends again though. - Did you stay in touch with a lot of the castmates and production team? - I did. We have like a group chat, like the castmates and a lot. - I mean, there's a text in there like every day. - And then where people also going through the blues. - Some people just like, they were like fine. Like, Daniel, oh yeah, Daniel, fine. But there were other castmates like Maria, like I got really close to her and she had the same experience as me. She was like, I keep having nightmares about the kitchen in the morning. And that's because I added so much data to my dreams. And so like now I can dream about the master's shift. Like in my nightmares a little bit sometimes. - Oh god. Good dreams and bad dreams. - Okay, so you were going through a great time. You're sleeping a lot. And how did you get through that? - Just really good at sleeping. And really good at ignoring my responsibilities. - I think one of the things is like, when you're on that show you couldn't really work and do your own things. - Yeah. - You can't really post unless you post a sentence. - That's crazy. So I'm just freaking out about my mat leave and how I'm going to keep up with all my content and work. And because like the algorithm doesn't, they do penalize you for being out for that long. And I haven't been around content for as long. So I don't really have a good, that 10 year long of audiences. - Yeah. - So it's like, you got to keep going. So that was a lot of work and I'm a little scared. It's okay. And you went through it. - I think you'll be okay. - Thank you. - Because you've built a community on me. And you're going through something so huge. Like people are going to understand. And if there's anyone who you should trust on reassurement in here, it's me because I've taken so many breaks. And like I'm just like, people will understand. Like people are following you to see your journey too. And then understand your human. - You're not like a bot creating content. - Yeah. - It's hard. Content is really hard to make. - Yeah. - It takes so much energy. - I think they'll be happy with bread crumbs. Like, my interior baby comes out. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Just like stories or like, I'll try my best. - I'll try my best. - A 20 minute live stream from the hospital room. - Yeah. - People will love that. - How do you think that Jamie Post-MasterChef has changed? How different were you? - Oh my gosh. I feel like I've changed a lot. - Okay. - And that's why I've been taking my time with things. It was such a grounding experience for me. 'Cause I got to experience like high school college life again. But I got to relive it in a way where like, I was more developed and proud of who I was. So I didn't have to be socially awkward anymore. And it was really healing for me because I think like, content creation has been lonelyer for me. And it's hard to like trust people. Or you build your walls up over time. So when I went to MasterChef, a lot of people kind of gave me the sentiment of like, oh, why are your walls up? - Your walls were up? - Yeah. - They didn't think their walls were in up? - No, I think my walls were definitely clearly up. Like it seemed that way, yeah. - What does that look like? - For example, like I wouldn't share as much. I think I'm a pretty private person. Like I don't like share as much of like my life. - But I mean to Chloe, I think I'm just talking all the time. So yeah, but it's other people, like I usually don't say much. But it's because I get scared that of certain judgments and stuff. Like when you're on the internet, you get used to people judging you. - That's true. - I almost feel like I have like a preconceived notion of like what people think of me. So I'm like more detached in a way. But of course I'm still nice and friendly. And then people on the show made me realize they wanted to support me and be my friend no matter what. And it didn't matter like what I did and it didn't matter like who I was online. You know when you're in high school in college, like people know you as just Chloe. Like that's kind of what it felt like. So it was really healing for me. But also I feel like content creation, especially the world that I came from. Sometimes like a little ego is good for you to really push your content. Like you're posting yourself. You have to have some sort of like self-obsession. - Yeah. - So after MasterChef, I was just so like grounded and I was like dangly. - Do I just go back to posting like content online? And like I don't know, it was so weird. It was such a weird like feeling for me to have. So I'm still kind of processing that. - Yeah. - It's been half of you. - I know. - So you're still processing it. - Yeah. - I mean, it was a huge event in your life and you did so well at the last episode. In episode eight, you won a challenge using a dish that was dedicated to your father. - Yes. - It's the roti-tonai dish. - Yes, my roti-kanai. - So there was a lot of controversy around that, dude. - Yeah. - What happened? Basically Jamie held like a watch party and so invited a bunch of her friends and we were able to watch her win and her parents were really proud of her. But then the whole country of Malaysia decided to come out and cancel Jamie. - It was crazy. - Like did you see it coming? - No, I did not see it coming at all. - Okay, so I was like shocked. I was like, what's happening? - So basically, you said roti-kanai on television on national TV, but it's actually pronounced roti-chanai. - Did you know that at the time? Like I mean, I don't know. - No, but I shouldn't have known because we have a lot of foods that start with sea, like chendol. For some reason, for roti-chanai, I always said roti-kanai. But also my dad just said roti. Like you just say roti, so it doesn't really matter. But when it first came out, like I saw some comments and I was like, oh, it's just like, this is whatever. - This is whatever. Then all of a sudden, there's like articles. - Yes, the articles. - Oh my God, there's so many articles. And so I was like, wow, this is huge. And then I ended up posting an apology 'cause I was like, I did not mean to misrepresent this dish. - Yeah. - And then the apology blew up and then like, there was, and there's more articles. - And there's more articles, and I was like, oh my goodness, and then my dad texted me. My cousin texted me. She's like, congratulations, you are officially famous. And then she gave me this drift. (laughing) It's labiosar, not labiosar. - Yeah, it's for the roti-chanai. - Yeah, yeah. - And she was like, you know what your dad said? He said, who cares? It's roti paratha. Because like, I made it so quickly. - Yeah, I came out more like roti paratha. - Yeah, yeah. - And he was like, he called me. He was like, just ignore everyone. Okay, he was just roti. And then my mom was like, yeah, roti is all the, you know, roti is roti. (laughing) Your pants are great. - Yeah, that was funny. - That was roti's roti, like don't worry. And then my dad was like, I pick up and I'm like, what's up? And he's like, he's like, giggling. He's like, huh, like, you're like famous in Malaysia. (laughing) It's crazy 'cause I don't know a single Malaysian-American content creator. You're the only one. So it was such a big deal for you to go and represent Malaysia on MasterChef. And I know you felt a lot of responsibility. And it was just insane how much you blew up from that. And like, I think pretty positive ways to be honest. And I know it was like really sad. I know you were going through sadness. And the people really mean on the internet. And a lot of creators, influencers in Malaysia, like called them out. - That's true. That was really surprising for me to see you. - Yeah, people were defending you. And then our friends at Stitchi, Ms. Chiwi, on Instagram, so she's like, talking, we were in this group chat. She's like, Texas, I don't listen to that. - Yeah. - I've been canceled before. Don't you worry. You're better. I'm like, this is so sweet. - Yeah, I think. - I thought it was nice to see like who will support you. And you know, I was really sad at first. Like for 24 hours, I was so sad. Because like I won this challenge. And it meant a lot to me. It was really about my dad. And the dish meant a lot to me. And I wanted to do well for Malaysia. But after like things settled, I'm really glad that it created conversation around Malaysian food. - Yeah, people like don't know what Malaysian food is. - Exactly. So now like all my friends know what roti is. - I know. - I know, now I know. Now you know. - I don't even know how to spell that. - I know. - And now you know how to say it too. - Yeah. - And how not to say it. - The funniest thing is I follow this guy. He's named like Moses on Instagram. He's the think positive. (laughing) - I love that guy. So when he posted about it, he was like, "Oh my god, we broke and contained man." Malaysia is the fourth of all. - He's so funny. He's like, he's like that type of guy that if someone asked him, why would my crush like someone else? And he says, because they'd rather break someone else's heart than yours, think positive. - No, he's so good. - He's funny that. - He's so funny. - Did you guys DM? - No, but I commented on his thing. - Okay. - 'Cause he was joking about how the Malaysians have been doing like funny, like friends. And I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna go to my turkey burger now." (laughing) I saw that. I was like, "Oh, what is that?" That's crazy. - I know, but yeah. - I really appreciate it that. - He said he's damn proud of you. And then the funniest thing he's like, dude, why are we making fun of Jamie? If we keep this up, Singapore's gonna take over. Who you know is that what you want? Do you want Singapore to rank better? - And I think the Southeast Asia lords are hilarious. - No. - The competition. - Yeah. - It's crazy. - That was really funny. - That was so funny. I love him, he's great. - And then he was like, "Malaysia Bolle." Yeah, "Malaysia Bolle." I love people say Jamie Bolle. - Jamie Bolle. - Jamie Bolle. - And what does that mean for the viewers? - It's kind of like, "Jio," or like, "Pyping." - So my mom always texts me like, " Jamie Bolle." So much Jamie Bolle. That is really cute, actually. - Yeah, it's really cute. - I love that. - Yeah. - What do you think being on MasterChef and like, going so public with it, change how people perceived you online and offline? - Ooh. I think people got a glimpse of like, the real me. - Yeah. - Like, the depth. - Yeah. - And then the fact that you're actually an insanely good cook, like, when I was on MasterChef and in the audience, like, everyone was just like, dissecting everyone's cook, like, wise as good, wise as fat. Ooh, that's a bad choice. That's a good choice. - Yeah. - And I was like, "Wait, I didn't know there were levels to this. There's levels to it. It's crazy." - I did not know. - Yeah. - I had to switch comments I got, or like, on the separate, they were like, "Dang, like, I knew she like cooking it, but I didn't know she didn't have it." - She had it like that. - She had it like that. - She has it like that. - So that was like the biggest thing I really wanted to just, like, solidify my market and cooking. - So the most competitive market, I think. - It is. It is. And I want people to know about Malaysian food, too. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And I want people to cook more. Like, I really want everyone to cook more. - It's talking to me. - Yeah. I was like, you know, Chloe. - She's talking to me. - It's like, Kevin can just cook. - No, but I also feel bad. I want to be talented. - Now. - I need to survive somehow. - You can, yeah. But like, Kevin can cook. I send him recipe sometimes. - Yeah. Thank you. - Yeah. - So, a perception of you online. - Oh, yeah. - So let's do online first. - Online, I think people were like, oh shoot, she's like, serious about this. Like, I got a lot of those comments. Like, she's serious about this. In person, I think most people were like, just proud of me, and that was really sweet to see. Yeah, I think this is the most support I've ever gotten, like, in my life. And I'm like so grateful from people in your life, just like everyone, and also people from my life too. I think it's something that people are, like, eager to support. And I think people know, like, it must have been hard, or like, I had to go through that. So, I think people are really proud of me. And so, that's really nice. But I think it made me realize, I have to be proud of myself too. Yeah. - How did your relationship with your parents change? - I feel like it opened up more doors for, like, affection and, like, honesty between us. - Yeah. When my dad had to really get used to, like, being filmed or being on camera, because they were like, "Can your dad, like, your dad is such a big part of your story, can you, like, can you guys show us some footage of the cooking or whatever?" So, my cousin had to, like, go to my, my parents' house and be like, "Because the name is Burn and the family." And he's like, "Burn, like, go, go, go, cook right now." And then my dad's like, "Okay." He puts on, like, his dress shirt. And then he starts, like, cooking, like, in the dress shirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I'm being on TV, which was, like, such a nice moment for me. I was like, "Wow." So nice that my story's being shown on TV like that, and it's, like, with my family. So, I think it opened a lot of doors for us, 'cause immigrant families. It's, like, you get shy, like, with filming or, like, talking about things, and. - Cute. - Yeah. - And doing my dad would send me, like, videos of, like, Malaysian recipes. He's like, "You should try to make this, try to make this." And I was like, "Dad, it's not how it works." Like, sometimes I don't know what I'm going to make, because it's a mystery box. - That's crazy. - Yeah. - Did anyone switch up on you? Like, "I know you don't like me that much." - Yeah. - And it's sort of get real nice, and you're like, "I know you big ass bitch." [laughter] - I actually, like, don't have that type of mindset with people I talk to you, like, anyone who, like, I have some sort of interaction with, I think quite positively on, but something in the air definitely changed where I feel, like, specifically for people who might have underestimated me, or, like, this is tea, and I like, drop it, 'cause, like, I love Ophistrama, and it's called "Ophistorama." - "Roma." [laughter] - But basically, like, last year there was, like, another female food creator, who, like, I think I came up in conversation, and she was like, "Oh, I don't like that girl." I feel like she's setting us back. - I remember this. - I remember this. - I remember this. - I remember this. - I was like, "Knight!" - Yeah. And it made me so upset, because, like, we're supposed to be supporting each other in the content creator world, especially, like, as women, it's hard enough already. So I was really, like, upset during that. It kind of gave me a glimpse of like what other people could have been thinking as well because that was something that was like delivered to me So I'm like hey, what about all the things? I can feel like when you're on the internet You can feel when you're like part of conversations and whatnot So I do feel like after my shift like I felt something in the air where it's like those people don't have a lot to say to that You don't because it's hard to say you have a like that. I just like was so honest and what I wanted to do and so yeah Kill people with kindness and like focusing on yourself and hotness. Yeah, how did it open up opportunities for career or change the way you want Interpolshire career because now you're like on TV now. It's an IMDb thing now. It's not just social media. It's media that's true Yeah, and the fact that you are a can be on camera and you're on such a big stage with Gordon Ramsey and have so many clips go Survival and the Malaysia thing. I mean, I think I don't just think it helped. I honestly think it was an awesome message But it's like a there's so much more that can come out of this that probably weren't super possible before yes I think my pillars are changing. Yeah, my next steps I wanted to be intentional and like provide value to the people so whether it's educational Just somewhere that'll lead me to be able to like provide more resources or Opportunities for people like me. Yeah, so it could be like Malaysians like younger girls who want to do content So I feel like I'm heading in that direction where I just want to give back to people and I want to make sure that like what I put out in the world You either pollute the world are you? What's the word called you either pollute the world or you don't You either pollute the world or you pick up the trash something like that. There's like a really whoa. That's a very interesting quote Yeah, like you you polluted or you don't so I'm like, you know, I need a work on things that will help the world Even if it's just a little bit, but I like your performances, but I know what you mean I think my performances help the world. Yeah, they do. I think it's like yeah Yeah, yeah, like it inspires people to like like maybe I can I want to I want to wiggle wiggle Yeah, exactly be yourself. 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They're offering 15% off any annual plan And that discount is only available through my link again that story blocks.com/office drama for 15% off annual plans One of the biggest questions that you have to deal with as a creator is figuring out representation because it's almost like touring a different company and it's like you have someone on your team who has your back and is pitching you and is building your career with you and they take a big chunk of your money This is such a big conversation and you've dealt with this for like a decade Which is insane because I have a love-hate relationship I'm with the United Talent agency and I'm pretty happy with where I am at Like I went through so many of these conversations but people don't see like this is what you spend so much time with like dating around shopping around and now that you're in this new stage of your career How was that when you were navigating who to go with next and when we're looking for what we're not looking for Where were some flags and business partners that you've seen before? Like what are some red flags? You're like I don't want this in my business partner in the future Because you've gone through it. Yeah. You've gone through a lot of business partners It's really hard because you want to trust people and you want to see the best in people But truthfully sometimes people don't even know their own capability and you kind of have to judge that for them Which is like sad. Yeah Maybe this is an eldest daughter thing. I can be very critical And I just choose not to be when it comes to friendships or relationships Or things that are not needed for criticalness But when it comes to like working with someone like I really let myself be a bit critical And then I try to like parent that like what about this can change or what about this would be compatible with me and in a way like I critique myself as well So I think for me when it comes to business partners I look for someone who can fill in what I'm missing Because I'm very aware of my flaws and I think that took me a while to figure out Because when you start a business you learn everything and at some point you're like okay I know what I'm good at I know what I enjoy and I know what where my weaknesses are So I really would try to look for that and I look for someone who's honest like I just want someone honest and I think if someone's like name dropping a lot If someone's like really exaggerating or only talking about their accomplishments It just doesn't matter to me as much especially because I don't come from that background Like I grew up in low-income schools like I didn't grow up around people who were like set to go to Ivy League Like that wasn't possible for like the people around me when I was growing up So for me like when I hear those things like it doesn't really put that much impact I don't really go like oh like they went to the score or whatever like I really look at someone's character And also like how hungry they are in the current moment because someone should be really good But maybe in their life like yeah They were ready put their hunger into something maybe they won't be as ready to pursue something Strongly so it's a bunch of different things But definitely honesty grit yeah grit so grit How do you tell them in someone that's grit? I think you can just tell like when I talk to you like I even the first time I was like I was a sweaty gritty-ass person Yeah she's gritty guys I don't know I have no chill but I would like to figure that out I feel like for me I see it in their work I see So whenever people even when I was like hiring creatives I don't care about like what school they went to I just look at their work And I think that's like the best assessment for me And I think because I'm someone who like has been a part of that creative process Whether it's like editing or even like filming I don't know how to do it Or writing yeah when you know how to do it you know good work when you see it And I can tell when they like go the extra mile to make something have that sauce I guess my biggest advice is like the better you are Your own craft and what you do you'll be able to see it in other people Yes and you appreciate it too Yes I get a lot of editors applying to work with me Yeah And like one of my biggest pet peeves is when they send a whole ass paragraph essay about All this all these years of work and VFX and animation then sound design and color grading And they're like a professional editor And they've done all these things and I'm like and then don't link the portfolio I know That's like okay Hello I know Do you want this job or not? Do you want to work together or not And so I have to do the extra mile of like being like okay This is a really nice and thoughtful email Please send your portfolio and it's fucking shit Yeah Yeah Dude, did you do the lie? Like that's crazy Did you just lie? Did you lie to my face? Like that's crazy that you just say yourself that you're a professional I think like from my perspective there's no point in wasting time like selling yourself If the product is not there And so my biggest advice to anyone who is like looking for work is I appreciate anyone who like empathizes my position And they think like what would Jamie want to see So for example like some people I've worked with They'll literally like take my own content and like do something with it Even if it's like 10 seconds or like 15 seconds And that personalization goes such a long way Especially for content creators Yeah And even for brands like I feel like if you do that for a brand or a company like They'll really appreciate it Yeah and I think just caring goes so much further than credentials And like where you're from or like what school you went to Like I feel like caring goes such a long way And I feel like that's really prominent like in my career Because I didn't go to an Ivy League And I didn't like girl with like monies I just got this far because I cared a lot Yeah Yeah Do you think that your agent or manager representation Determines a lot in your career? I don't think it's necessary for the trajectory of your career I think it's necessary to optimize your career Optimize and monetize But I think my management and agency could have gone any other way And like I still would have you know like the content I make is mine I went on MasterChef like with my own two arms Yeah so there's a lot you can do without management and agency But it's definitely needed to just like optimize Like being in content is hard And you want to make sure you're like in the knowing of things So it's really nice to have like a management that knows what that looks like What were really realistic things that management or agencies Have done worked with you like people on the non-creative side The business people That you're aligned dude This was awful Talk three worst experiences My gosh And I think that I think realistic Because everyone thinks management can solve so many things But they're also human and they're also just starting this career Usually they're pretty fresh in that career path Yeah you need someone that believes in you And I've noticed like if they have some more interest to you that helps too Like if they want to grow in the same industry that you're growing in I feel like that helps But something that I would never fall into the trap of I personally don't think management or agency Can ever really help your content that much in terms of like vision Like especially if you've already built something You're the one who built it You're the one who who has a sauce, you're the one who has a creative experience and like an agency or management can like, you know, you can go on a cloud and ask for like 10 different things that you can do with your career and like anyone can just fill up like, hey, you should do like 10 of these like content ideas or whatever, but content creators are so like fluid and big now. You can really create anything and I feel like content creators, they might get lost, especially like this is what happened to me, like you get lost and think what's right, what's better for me, what should I do now? But you might be missing out on something that's like really good in your head, if you just like really focus on your internal world and like what you can create and put out there. So I think for me, if any management is like, will help you, yeah, like give me 10 extra percent and I'll help you like make content ideas like, oh well, like that's kind of, that's BS, yeah, yeah, don't listen to that. I also hate it when like, okay, this is like a hot take, but I don't like it when they ask me for like a list of my dream brands because I'm like, is there a campaign going on for these? What are you going to do? Are you going to like good? You know, like I, I think a dream brand is just hard. So someone who's realistic and someone who's like honest, yeah, I need some too. But also wants the best for you. It's hard. It's hard. Do you have any moments that you're like, I think it's time to break up and this was why a management? Sure. Representation. Any type. Ah, you just feel it when you're not like, yeah, like when you're growing with someone, you can feel it in every like part of your body and where not you don't. That's really big. I'm confused. But what's your experience that you'll know? Yeah. I mean, I can usually pinpoint it pretty concretely and then because of that, I feel a lot of like frustration and distress. I see. I was like, you ain't taking 20% for my distress. Yeah. Anything that's repetitive. So it's like, if you see, yeah, if you see a pattern of them like letting you down or not showing up for you, that's when your brain is like, what the hell? Yeah. Your brain is like, what the hell? This is not right. So when you notice your pattern, so it's good to write things down. And that's why I think it's good to rant to people because you know, rant to your friends. They'll write down their heads like me. They'll know. Yeah. Like you come to me ranting about someone. I'll be like, Chloe, like you felt this way last time, like I think it's time to break up, you know? Yeah, no, she's definitely hadn't. Yeah. It's conversation we were before. I tend to forget a lot of my words. Yeah. So honestly, my advice. Tell a close friend. Like tell a close friend what you're going through. And like for me, I think I made a mistake of like everything I build or went through like sometime that didn't tell anyone. Hmm. And I regret that. I didn't feel safe. Like if I had a Chloe, my whole life, like I would have just told you and then it's good because when you're lost in the sauce, you want to just assume the best of people. Yeah. You want to trust people. Yeah. When you're stressed and there's a lot on your plate, you want to delegate, and you don't want to listen to that part of you. That's like, oh, I don't know. This is a good idea to work with this person with a lot. Yeah. So it's good to have a friend who's like, listening, and this is like what dating too. Like you're dating a guy. Like tell a friend so they can tell it to you straight. Like, and when they tell it to you, like really take it in. I know. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a really hard thing for the people who are not in corporate because in corporate you don't have a choice. You just have to work with these people. So it's not about whether you like them or not. Yeah. You just have to survive this project or relationship somehow. Wow. I would hate that. I know. But then it's even harder because everyone is sort of a potential coworker. Yeah. And then you have to make the decision to walk away from them. Like that is a lot of decision. Wow. You can't do that in corporate. You can just let it be. You can let people be bad. You can try to give them feedback. Also another thing in the freelance space, you can't really give people feedback. It's not really a waste. Yeah. All you can do is be like, this is not working out. Yeah. That's so true. Yeah. And then like rumors start spreading because it didn't work out and then they can misinterpret or reinterpret and then share it with their people. Dang. I know. It's a whole ass game. Wow. That's right. Finding the right business partner is really hard. It's a lot of people suck. I will say the majority people are not competent and that was like such a culture shock to me. Because when you work in corporate, like everyone has a base level amount of competency and you're like, okay, cool. You got here somehow. Oh, but like you went into content and you're like, and then everyone, like it's the spectrum. It's the range. It's the range of people. Wow. Wow. I got so confused. Everyone says the same things. Really? Yeah. Everyone sells it the same way. They use the same big ass words and I'm like, I'm so confused. My TJ is like, that's why I'm like, what's your MBTI? That's true. That's true. Yeah. My business partner is actually good and you're like, all right, I feel good about this. You know, I'm still trying to figure that out and that's something I feel like you're more experienced on. I don't know if I'm a experienced on. I mean, I have my opinions on what I've worked with so far. I've only had so many years. I feel like if I find someone to work out, I'm like, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? What do you think it's a good business partner? Well, first of all, I think that as women in our space, at the level that we operate at, having business partners is, I'm just going to freaking say it because I'm going to say it all the time. But we're at a different level, dude. We are. We are. We are. We are. Yeah. And you can't just be like some average Joe on the corner of the block to try to pitch something. Like you have to be really competent in your space and own it. And so I think it is a gift for me to open my space to someone else and give them all the wisdom and knowledge and network that I have. I have. Yeah, even for people who work on my team that I worked on contracting with, like as you do, you give people so many opportunities. Yeah. You work with them once. They might fail. They might whatever. Like I had a designer who tried to work with me and I was like, this is not working out, but here I'll give you to some of my other creator friends. Yeah. I think you're a better fit. And I'm going to be blunt. And I'm just a blunt person. Yeah. And I don't think I am ridiculously blunt. I've gotten people who are like really upset with me at times and like they've cried because I am very, I think when we work in the level of that we do with craft and creativity, you just have to operate as such intensive intensity that you can't be like really nearly just throwing some, some sort of blob out. I think it is an honor to work with someone who cares that much and is obsessed with that type of level because you don't get to be around that caliber every day. So if you, if they don't understand that it's a gift, then they're not in. It's number one. Yeah. Number two is, I think you mentioned this before, but you really don't know until you work with them. And number three is you have to find out from someone else so you're background reference checks. You have to get reference checks. I am no longer working with anyone who doesn't have any reference checks. Wow. Yeah. I'm also the interview never matters. Interview never matters. I could do that. Yeah. Is never freaking matters. You're doing a trial. Yeah. You have to show me your work. And you have to work under pressure. And I think speed is of the essence. Speed is of us. I think that within the trial, I know, like in the trial, especially if you're working with editors and my editors know this, that if you have unlimited time in the world, of course, you're going to put out something good. Actually, the only thing that makes a difference between a really good and a really bad, whatever you're doing is speed. You do on the spot. If you can't think on the spot, what are you doing? That's so true. That's a hard skill to have too. Yeah, it's really hard because you can't hide behind the assignment anymore. Yes. Yes. Yes. And you're not always going to do it. So if you can't think of it on the spot, that means you weren't proactively thinking about it, and it's going to take you too long to get there. And it's not my job to teach you. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that if you have to be opinionated, you have to be okay with being wrong. You have to give your take, even if you don't know enough information. But you have to be like, with my limited information given the goal that I had, this is like my take. Yeah. This is how we're going to do it. But here's like, how do we promise all this in real life? Yeah. Yeah. But our various time and base these days. Yeah. And I guess that's the nature of freelance. And we're working with like, not just freelancers, we're working with like commission based partners, business partners. Yeah. So you have to think really long term and how to be a long term business partners. So you have to graduate from the freelance mindset and then be like, I am the shit. And I know how to build people up. And we're going to proactively do this. So I have a really high bar for working with people. Yeah. That said, I have a high bar for myself when I, when I say yes to, working with people, or when I ask people to work with me, I'm just like, you only have one shot. You ask what you're able to give. Yeah. And oftentimes you do have only one shot. Yeah. Yeah. I only have one episode with you. Yeah. If I don't do it right today, then she's not coming back. But if you were in that position, you would show up like 300 percent, you know, like that's what you can do. I was trying to do it. Yeah. And I think that that's part of the bucket one of, I know how much of a gift it is to be in this space with you for someone to work at this caliber and this and operate at such a high level and give the kindness and the time that you did. So I guess treat people with respect and like, yeah, like care. Yeah. That's important to me. If someone just doesn't respect it, whether they're really young or really old, like I just think we're wasting our time here. Yeah. That has to be mutual. I think that's a really great perspective for me to hear, because because I didn't have the corporate life. I didn't realize like how good they, like how good it is for anyone who like answers the space. You know, there's a lot of privileges to it that I don't realize because it's so different from corporate. Yeah. So when we're at your place and then your friend was talking about complaining about a dab that she was working with, and then showed the text of the dab that got you out. I don't know what to tell you, "Well, why can't get this done?" And then it told Kevin. And Kevin was like, "What the fuck?" I've never seen that ship, but that does not fly at all. That's an instant fire. That's a huge red flag. You don't do that at all. You're gone, you're a goner. - Yeah, it's so different. - It's over. - It's over. - The corporate world, very slight. - Yeah. - The corporate world, so. - I mean, there are bad people in corporate too. It's just, the range is insane. - Yeah, it's hard. - It's hard, especially, that's been hard for me too. That's something I'm working on as well. 'Cause I feel like I could definitely be direct and critical if I wanted to. And I've had my moments, especially with I'd be cut. Like, I've had my moments. - Do you say it? - Like, explicitly in front of people? Or are you keeping it in your head? - I think once I reach a certain point, I also just, I'll say it. - Yeah. - I don't want someone else to experience what I experience. Like, I need them to know. And I still think even a feedback is hard to hear. Like, people need to hear it. - Yeah. - I wouldn't want to hear it if I was in that position. - Yeah. because you have like an image, YouTube, YouTube. Yeah, so it's hard and I'm like, "Oh my god, I want people to think that I'm like," - Yeah. - Especially just like we look like soft ladies, or soft girls. - Yeah, so people don't expect it. - People don't expect it. But it's hard, like, we have so much on our plate, you know? So it's like, "I know." - And I'm someone who can do something on the spot. - Yeah, so that's a trait I love, but it's hard to find that in people as well. - Yeah, you're gonna be really scrappy, and they can't crumble on the spot. They have to be like, "I'm excited to crumble on the spot." - And you have to just learn it and embrace it 'cause like, content creation is just so scrappy. - Yeah, it's not good. - I've tried like the whole working with people and like allowing them. - Yeah, I've tried that. I'll be like empathetic and try to align, give it someone who can do things on the spot. That's when I won't criticize as much because sometimes like they could be screwing up for some other reason. Like maybe they're like actually going through it or something. But they have to get their first for me to like, if I can see that they can do the work and they're like really capable, then that's when I'll think about like, okay, like if you're not performing well right now, like is there something going on? 'Cause I know they're capable of it. But with anyone who like never reaches the mark, it's like you just can't, you can't push it. - That is true. - Now that you're entering a new era of your career, is there like a mentor figure or a conversation that you had that kind of changed your brain chemistry and the way that you want to show up in work? - Yeah, it's conversations. I just like, I feel like I surround myself with other women who are trying to build something like I am and like those conversations are helpful 'cause we're all like going through the same thing. - We're all special, but we're all still the same. - Yeah. - That's how womanhood feels like. - Yeah, I think I learned a lot about womanhood becoming like friends with you. - Aww. - Yeah, it's been nice. - Womanhood lit. - Yeah, womanhood good, if I remember earlier this year, 'cause I worked in tech. - Yeah. - It was my very first time understanding, oh, that we hate men. (laughing) - No, literally. I was like, you're crazy moment from me, 'cause I knew. I'm sorry about the men out there, like I think of conceptually not individually. - This is not for the good men. - Yeah, it's not about you. If you're watching this, it's probably not about you. - That's true. - But yeah, I knew it in tech, that men sucked and whatever, and I just chose to live with it. And I was like, yeah, sure, whatever. Rationally, that has to happen. But I never felt it in my bones until his last year. - Yeah. - And it just, everyone just gave me the ick. - Literally, I'll have like girl dinners and it's all my girlfriends and Chloe's there. And she's talking about things. And we're like, Chloe, you don't have to talk to this man. You don't have to, you have to incorporate, I guess. - Yeah. - But in this world, you don't have to. And we're like, Chloe, that's messed up, just leave. Just don't talk to them and she's like, what is that option? (laughing) - So that was very interesting. But yeah, I think for the men watching this, you should pride yourself that you're not one of the men that are making our lives hard. Like, you should be proud of that, you know? - I think I'm hanging out with the girl group. Everyone was just so, I'm here to help you. Like, what can I do to help everyone was just so down. And then a lot of, there are guys who hang out too and they're just so service oriented. And it just felt so nice to not have to mother or take care of someone else. And I was like, oh, people like do stuff. And it doesn't have to be me. - Yeah. - That was crazy. - You're done mothering. - Yeah, I'm done with it. - Yeah, I got to mother my own kid. - That was insane. By the end of 2026, what do you want to put on your accomplishments cake? - Oh my God, our accomplishments cake. - Yes. - Well, the first one I wanted was go on Master Chef. - Yeah, we got that. - Yeah. - And then I would love to hit a milley on Instagram. - We should get you there. - Yeah. - Oh my God, you're out there right now. - You're out there right now. - I'm at 750. Everything is so spread across the board. I was like, I'm on my first milley. Like, even if everything together is a lot. What are you on TikTok? Like, 600. - Ooh, I feel as doable. - I feel like it's doable if I'm posting the same things. - That's true. - 'Cause my, like, I have so little posts. I think I have like 300 posts, including photos. (laughing) - That's true. - Yeah, so I just need a post. And then I would love for my project to release. - Okay. - My side project. - Secret side project. - Okay, excited. - That release, I'd be happy. - Yeah. - Before we wrap the episode, every single guest for better for worse has to go through what's called a performance review. Do you know what that is? - I've never had a performance review. - So basically, the incorporate, you have like this review every single like six months and it tells you whether you like the expectations, you exceeded or you didn't meet expectations, and it's usually tied to your bonus. - Wow. - Yeah, it's my bonus. (laughing) - It's time to lie. - No! - Well, legally, this performance review does not affect your conversation, your title, but it might affect your aura. - Ooh. - And you are all about aura. - I would like the aura bonus. Question number one, would you rather make money or be famous? - Oh my God, be famous. - Okay, she might sell. - She's got it before. - Would you be down to make a million dollars but you have to be a course person? - Yes. - She's ready to drift. - Are you living with main character energy or are you in your NPC era? - Main character forever. - Ooh. - Meetings before 10 a.m. personal problem or a human rights violation. - Human rights violations. - That's right. - That's right. - That's what I mean. - Meetings before, for everyone's having meetings before 10 a.m. - I explain why that's terrible. When you wake up, you have three hours of really good creative energy and you're wasting it on talking to people. Like, that's terrible. - You're so right. - So good for that. - Close to the end of the day, when all your creative energy is out. And that's when you think about things and then you reassess with people. - That is so fair. I'm just saying, I'm just saying. You're the first person to answer that. - Wow. - Human rights violation, everyone. - Says that was a personal problem, Chloe. - Should Gen Z be caught in creatives before having a real job? - No. - And that's like me. - So, if you got casted in Love Island, which type cast would you choose? Number one, the bombshell that gets overhyped and eliminated fast. - Oh my god. - Number two, the one that gets the villain at it, but for being actually honest, but somehow stays on the island. And number three, the ambiguous lover girl who flirts with everyone but pisses people off. - Ooh, I think number one. - Number one, bombshell? - Because I would probably want to go home after a bit. - Like I can handle like three, four days of filming, and I'd be like, okay, I got to go guys. - Take my left hand or my right hand. - Ooh, I like your right. - Oh wait, wait, wait, you can't take it. This one, this one, this one, this one, this one. This one, this one, this one, my left hand. - Yeah, I like that one. - Okay, so I am a man. - Okay. - Imagine that. - Okay. - And we make it together to the finale of Love Island. - Okay. - And we are about to win $100,000. - Oh, sure. - And in this hand is my decision to steal or to split. And if we both steal, we lose $100,000. Do you split or do you steal? - I steal. - Is that your final answer? - Yes, I steal. - You steal? - I steal. - I steal. - Yes, that's it or done. - I split. - That means I get all of it. - You got all the money. - She won. - That's how you do it boys. - That's how you do it boys and girls. - If AI completely took your job, would you rather be a plumber, electrician, or firefighter? - Ooh, probably electrician because of my dad can use me. - That's true, dad's got it. So you're Malaysian, Chinese, and a little bit of Taiwanese, right? - Yeah, my parents can speak Taiwanese. - Oh, that's awesome. So please introduce yourself in Chinese. And tell the viewers what you do and that you're like cooking, please. To the camera. (speaking Chinese) (laughing) (speaking Chinese) - Yay. (speaking Chinese) - Give me a light. (speaking Chinese) - I've never heard Chinese big Japanese Chinese before. I just wanna hear your Chinese now. Just do it again in a Southern accent. - Oh, my Chinese other way. (laughing) - You're English. (laughing) (speaking Chinese) - Tell me, what are three dishes that someone can make to completely win over their crush? - Oh. - Three dishes. - A steak, for sure. - Okay, make a good steak. - A good pasta. - Okay. (speaking Chinese) - Excellent. Should food creators who are bad at cooking be exposed? - Yes. - How would you think that should happen? - I mean, we should have like a cook-off, like a creator cook-off every quarter or every year. And we'll put them in tests and see how they perform. - But as long as they brand themselves, like if they're a cooking creator that brands themselves, like, I'm learning how to cook, that's okay. But if they're like, this is the best thing to cook and this is the best recipe, like, we're gonna have to do some assessments there, buddy. - Buddy. - Cooking food or eating food? - Eating food. (laughing) - Would you rather go viral or gain credibility? - Gain credibility. - Oh, she's on her credibility era. - Oh yeah. - Please name these iconic Malaysian dishes. - Oh. - Dunns are done. - Vanilla Mock. - That's correct. - Vanilla Mock is like coconut rice and there's like a really spicy sauce on top. And there's like fried anchovies. There's a really popular breakfast with like peanuts and like a boiled egg and you serve it on the banana leaf, which is like so yummy. It's my favorite. - Oh, you know your work. - This is Satay. - You made this in Satay. I made the Wagyu Satay on the show, but this is marinated for a lot of people, marinated overnight. That's how my dad does it. And it's marinated in like turmeric. Like all these spices, coconut milk. - Yeah. - Yeah, it's really yummy and then you grill it. And it's so good. I fed this to the people on TMZ and they loved it. I did the chicken version. - Oh, that's right. You went on in person. - Yeah. - Very good. - Yeah. - This one. - Naksa, I make the best laksa. I have to make you laksa. - I love noodles. - It's a seafood broth. So the seafood broth is actually made out of like you roast the shells on the shrimp. And it creates this really like umami broth. And you can serve it with like any type of seafood I like to serve it with like the little tofu puffs that like suck up the bra. That's like so delicious. - Yum. - Yeah. So it's really savory but across Malaysian Singapore they have different kinds of laksa. - Is this just ice coffee? - Mm-hmm. - Milk tea? - Mm-hmm. - Hong Kong Milk Tea? - It's tetatic. - Oh, I've never had this. - It's pool tea? - Yeah. - My mom never let me. after you got me a drink. - My mom would only let me drink my low. - My low, what's that? It's like a Southeast Asian chocolate drink. 'Cause I couldn't drink coffee. - Oh, dang. - Well, now I can try this. - Oh, it's a great Dow. - Chow, chow, great Dow's my favorite. - Chow, great Dow, yeah. - Chow, great Dow, what is this? - This is like rice noodles, and then you soak in like dark soy sauce, and you stir fry it in a wok with like shrimp, but you can stir fry with like the bean sprouts, soy sauce, dark soy sauce, a little sugar, black pepper. - Well, you know, you're also being so well, off the dawn. - Yeah, it's really good, it's really good. Are those plantains? - It's like fried banana. - Oh, fried banana. - It's called goring pisang. - My dad used to make this, but he would make you a plantain. - Oh, it's so good. - It's like quite similar. - Yes. - Yeah, it's my favorite. - Or maybe fried banana is like the translation, 'cause they're gonna cook. - Yeah, these are so good. And it's Southeast Asia. Every Southeast Asian country has their own version. So like into the Philippines, they have one and it's called Madu, yeah? But I think theirs is like shorter and fat like fatter. I remember why Southeast Asians love bananas and fried bananas. This one. - Is that Bakutei? - Yeah. - Yeah, I love Bakutei. - What's this? Bakutei is like an herbal soup. So when you make it, like you need a lot of herbs, so it's really hard to make here, but if you go to like nine and a half, they have like the pre-made like herbal, how good is it, it's really good. And then there's like a, like the tofu puff that's used for a walk sign. It's so good with all the broth. And then the meat is like slow cooked and braised. So it's like super tender. This is like every Malaysian parent's like favorite. Like they're like, "Let's make Bakutei, let's make Bakutei." And then I love it with like the marinated eggs, like the marinated tea eggs. - Tea eggs, yeah. - Oh, Bakutei is good. I think you would like it. I should make it for you. - You did so well. - I love my food. - She crushed it. And she explained the ingredients and the recipes and how you're cooking and what's Bakutei. - She had no, perhaps she had no idea we would do this. - Yeah, I was like, you're sweating a little bit. (laughing) - Okay, and very last question. Yeah. Rosie can I or Rosie can I? - Ooh, Rosie can I. (laughing) - No, I'm afraid of you. If you can make Rosie can I and you can talk your shit, but if you can't. - Oh, all spicy. - Well, thank you so much. Malaysia, what? - Fully. - Fully, Jamie, what? Fully, officially. - Thank you so much for being on office drama. - That was so fun. - Yeah, if you wanna follow her social media, she has iGumDraw. We're gonna get her to 1 million this year, guys. - Yeah, it's on Instagram. - Yeah, and if people wanted to reach out to you for advice, you know, you get so many messages and you're bombarded, notification central, but how would someone stand out to get time with you? - Ooh. - Loki? - Probably my emails, 'cause most people DM me. - Yeah, yeah, not. But what would they have? They can't be like, yo, can I pick your brain for 15 minutes? - Oh. - Would they have to be like, to be like, okay. I would love to see their work. And I get attracted to someone's work. Like, when I see them like, wow, this is good. They have the sauce that I get interested in, like, talking to them and helping them, so. - Show me your work. - Show me. - Send over the portfolio. I love a portfolio. - She'll look at the portfolio. - Yeah. - Not password blocked. - If there's a password, I'm not gonna over. - It's over, it's over. - It's over. - My attention's man's going on to talk live to talk for squishies. (laughs) - It's over. - And would you, Jamie, be down to come back on another episode of Office Drama? - Yes, I would love to. - What would you want to do it? - With Milestone or like, time or like. - Ooh. - What do you want to come back for? - To report. - To the drama llamas. We're called, they're called drama llamas. - When my course is released. - Oh yes. - To make a million dollars. We're gonna have to have a course. - Yes, my course released. I'll be back on Office Drama. - Yeah, she'll be back for the next episode too. She'll be the next episode. - With more drama. - With the girls, the girl chat of the band. - Oh yeah, the girl chat. - Yeah. - That'll be fun. - That's a good episode guys. We're gonna be, for some brain rot episode, but we gotta have that sometimes, you know? Can't be serious all the time. - Thank you for being here, yay! And that's a wrap! - Woo, woo, woo, woo! - Shout out to our drama llamas on Patreon for supporting our very, very small team. Remember that you can also support us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts by following, leaving a comment and rating us five stars. It goes a super long way. It like shows a podcast that we are alive and people like us and that we should get support too. It's hard out here. This episode is the first of its kind on office dramas since Jamie doesn't come from the corporate world, but she's still a business baddie. She's betting on herself, taking her career to the next level and giving us the exclusive scoop. I know she looks hella confident online, but let me tell you confidentially between you and me, she was going through it. We've had so many late night chats, existential thoughts and feelings of not knowing what that next step looks like. And the most interesting thing is, I actually find that people in the creator space are hyper aware of their career development because if you don't take charge of that, you become obsolete and irrelevant. There is no playbook. There is no manager hand holding you through a leveling rubric or giving you feedback. There is no clear trajectory. In fact, you get judged a lot online and by the people around you and by brands, they say you're not relevant enough, your videos aren't good enough, your numbers aren't high enough. It's a really hard industry to succeed in. So everyone has to find their own career path by themselves. Creative conversations with my creator friends have actually been very fascinating and enlightening and it's never something they talk about on their platforms. So hopefully you and I, we can create a safe space on office drama and bring those conversations here. I hope you love this episode as much as I did because Jamie was hilarious. I was smiling and laughing the whole time. Like I cannot believe. She literally did the Animal Crossing rap on her first try. She's so silly for that. She also knows her Malaysian dishes very well. MasterChef was such a core memory for Jamie and myself. Since I gotta be there too and be on my first ever reality TV set, stay tuned for next week's episode. We're actually doing a chaotic Remlin quadruplets episode with myself, Kimmy and Arya, who were all supporting Jamie. We'll be revealing things to Jamie that she doesn't even know about. Shout out to the MasterChef production team who have been supporting us and allowing us to share our perspectives and stories to put out this episode. Y'all are the best. MasterChef took a break for the World Cup the past month, but is coming back this week on Wednesday, July 15 on Fox. This is not sponsored at all. We just love them. We love their team. We love their crew. We love the show. So watch it to find out how far Jamie goes. And as always, I'll see you next time.