The Truth About Lying to Your Doctor

AI is about to replace your doctor, and that might be the best thing that ever happens to your health. Right now, your body is being tracked by 5 apps, 3 wearables, 2 doctors, and none of them talk to each other. It's chaos. So what happens when AI actually sees everything? Your sleep, your workouts, your blood work, your bad decisions on a Friday night, the fun ones. Suddenly it's not guessing it's pattern recognition for your life. So you wake up feeling off, instead of googling, do I have brain cancer? AI says no, you slept 4 hours, drank 6 drinks, and skipped hydration, fixed that first. That's just the truth. And it's different because you lie to your doctor, everybody does, but you don't lie to something that already has the data and doesn't judge you. So now you've got a system that knows you better than your physician, and it isn't judging you for it. That's a power. It's kind of terrifying, but it's inevitable. So here's the real question. If your life could be optimized by a system that sees everything, would you trust it more than you trust yourself? Welcome to AI for Founders. I'm Ryan Estes. Today we're diving into how Founders can build products that turn messy human data into clear decisions and why the future belongs to those who unify, not just analyze. This is for builders who see opportunities where others see overload. And if you want unfair advantage like this in your inbox, go to AIforfounders.co. It's where Founders stop guessing and start compounding. It's the newsletter, your future self-wishes you already read. And if this made you think, laugh or slightly panic, drop a review and let me know what hit. This episode features Steven, the founder of SAVA.AI, building a unified health intelligence layer powered by multiple AI models. And real quick, if you want to be the founder that everyone is talking about, instead of the one that no one can find, go to KitCaster.com. They'll get you booked on top podcasts in your industry. More shows means more reach, more authority, and more customers. KitCaster.com. Be the voice people remember that's KitCaster by MoBurst. Steven, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me, Ryan. Absolute pleasure. You know, we spoke maybe a week or two ago and I was like, you got to come on the podcast because I've been waiting for this product for so long. There's so many banana peels in this. So let's just dive right in. Give us an overview of your app, which was just approved by the iOS store, SAVA. Thank you. Yes. I mean, SAVA is a place, a unified area where you could put all your wearables information and data from your whoop, your garment, your peloton, your your Strava. Ryan, combine it with your medical records and your medications and your labs. And it's a place for people to make informed decisions on their health to get and have AI analyze it and also ask questions and get answers that are actually rooted in your actual health care data. It's amazing. And you know, there's so many innovations that are coming as far as like health care goes for pathology. If you're sick, you definitely want you have an urgency. But there's a lot of people maybe like me that are more, you know, we're not sick. It's like I am into human optimization. I'm into like getting the best out of my meat suit that I possibly can before the water completely runs down the drain. So as such, I end up having all these different disparate apps, you know, like for me, I like Cal AI or my fitness pal before that or Strava, like you were saying, like I'm measuring things all over the place, but I want to centralize place that can like show me like, hey, here's how you could supplement with these, these foods, maybe these supplements. And that really is kind of, I think the promise of what Saba is. So I'm super excited about it. And really happy that you decided to do this. So let's kind of, you know, one differentiation too is you're using different models. So basically saying that like maybe Claude could tell me something different than Grock, then Gemini could analyze better different than GPT. Talk a little bit about the differentiation between models that are actually analyzing the data. These AI models change. It seems like every couple weeks, right, Kimi 2.5 just came out from moonshot, which is so much different than Kimi 2.0 and Chatchabit 5.4 versus 5.3. Right. And so we give users the optionality without being married to one. And so, you know, plug in a question wins, what's my, when was my medication refill do or what was my last blood test and what were the results? And see what Grock has to say. And then two seconds later switch it on to Gemini. And then what does Med Gemma have to say? Then Lama and then Falcon and then Mistral. And so give people the second third, fourth, fifth, sixth opinions of their healthcare, almost like a roundtable, right? You leave the doctor's office and go, I don't know what that guy was saying. I don't trust that dude. You go on to, you know, I want a second opinion. It's one of the one of the most common things we say about our healthcare. So giving people that optionality inside the app and what's really cool about it actually is, you know, it's like 30 bucks a month to have the pro plan for some of these AIs. And for us for $10 a year, we give you all of them and we're able to do and to use Anthropic and then GPT and then Gemini and then Grock. And we do so because we don't, we don't give you unlimited answers, right? You can have, I think, with Grock for $10 a year, something like 12,000 questions and answers. And so it's well, it's not unlimited, it's still ample. Who's really going to ask more than 12,000 questions in a year? And even if you do, you know, just re-out the 10 bucks. And so letting people choose between these AIs as well as to do so in a way that you're not breaking the bank either. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting now too, because, you know, maybe since October, November, I've noticed certain, you know, LLMs are definitely smarter. And it's hard. Everybody's publishing their new benchmarks about we can do this, we can do that. But ultimately it's just like a feeling as you're engaging with it. You're like, oh, like this one is really appealing to me right now. So I'll kind of move over there and then kind of go back and forth. So it could be, and I think they also have varying degrees of personality. You know, in a year, all this stuff will probably be common sense, but now we're still kind of seeing how it's emerging. And like where, you know, all the foundation, foundational models will kind of like create an arena where they're most successful. So I think that's a really cool feature. You know, plus because if we're talking about like, you know, therapeutics further well, there's so many options now. And so many more coming on the on the table, whether you're talking about hormone replacement therapies, you're talking about GLP ones, you're talking about all these peptides that are available. There's like the recreational IVs you can get for different things that so, you know, kind of coming up, like not really integrated into the healthcare system more into kind of holistic health where, you know, I like massages and acupuncture and chiropractic for a while. And different things like that, where you can start to get different perspectives from the LLMs. And you also have a centralized place where maybe it starts to make recommendations. Because I think that's the other thing that I'm really enjoying about the predictive nature of AI right now is it's going to kind of expose your blind spots. So you might not know about this peptide available to you. You might not know that like, oh, if you're, you know, liver markers are here, maybe you can supplement with this kind of food. Basically, what LLM is going to recommend keeping me in the game, you know, exercising hard, but also drinking hard for as long as I possibly can, you know. Joe, I do know. I get that. I mean, that's certainly where it's going. I mean, it's an amazing space to be in because it's early days, right? And from a holistic perspective, right? Just to have access to be able to make decisions without going to the doctor's office and to sit there and educate yourself on the couch instead of somebody telling you about all this stuff, right? I think it's, it's so cool. And whether all that data is in an electronic health record or not, right? We allow people to upload that data directly into the phone, right? Take a picture of what you're doing with TRT and put that in there. Then now it's all it's keeping it in there. It's kind of a longitudinal or universal health record. In terms of it doesn't just need to be coming out of epic. You're coming out of your concierge's medicine clinic or or an urgent care facility or just a, you know, a quest or lab corps, something like that. So it's the whole idea behind what we're trying to do over here. Yeah. In therapies or anecdotal too, you know? So like if you have an infection, they're going to like, no, you need to take these three pills three times a day for seven days. Like do that and take all of it. You're like, okay, done and done. But you know, if you're taking a GLP one or you're taking peptides, it's more like, well, how do you feel? You know, you're like, well, day three, I kind of felt like ass. And then I fell better. And so you maybe you want to modulate the dosage back. And you need a place to kind of like keep all this information, you know, and with an with an agent, obviously you can just talk to it. You know, the one thing that we touched on too. And I was kind of joking about about drinking hard, but not really because if you go to the doctor and they're like, do you have more than four alcoholic drinks a week? You're like, yeah, they're like, dude, you lush. I'm like four? I mean, you know, I got a glass of wine with dinner, maybe a whiskey at watch in the game. What are we talking about here? So it doesn't really incentivize you to be honest with your doctor because right. Yeah. Totally. You have to lie to your doctor. You know, so with a AI, it kind of gives you an opportunity and we can talk about privacy in a second because this kind of dovetails into it. But with AI, you're like, "Ary, man, here's the real truth, man. I had seven vodka sodas last night." You know, and I ate a gigantic pizza all by myself. You know, what's a hangover recipe? I got some tomato juice and some pickle juice. What should I, you know, the options for that kind of honesty seem to be like beneficial for like the patient. The great point. Yeah. I mean, people are, people are so, you know, weird for lack of a better term with their health data. And I mean, there's all sorts of stuff you don't want to share with your physician for various reasons. Like I live in a really small town here. I see my physician at the Whole Foods on the daily, right? You can't be just giving her everything that's going on in my life. You start feeling weird about it. So yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a trust factor. You know, I think, I have a crazy story. I mean, I have a buddy of mine who will remain nameless. He had his prostate removed. He got prostate cancer a couple months ago. Had it removed. And his wife, his family, his parents, everyone thinks he had a hernia treated. Yeah. Right? People are, I mean, he just doesn't want the, he just doesn't want the, you know, the feeling of a little before me. I had my prostate removed. Or for whatever reason, he's just keeping it away and keeping it, you know, part of it. He wants it in. I think I'm the only guy I know because you know, each other since kindergarten. Yeah. So people are, people are strange with their health data. They're, they're protected of this stuff. And so, um, I think it's this trend with using AI to get answers is just so cool. It's for various reasons, especially the, the whole thing with, you know, privacy and not, not needing to share this data with another human being. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's privacy, which is totally legitimate. I would be the exact same way. But then there's also like, there's poor incentives. You know, if you go to your doctor and they're like, you know, do you smoke and you like, oh, yeah, I like to have, you know, a couple of cigars on the course or whatever and blah, blah, blah. They're like, oh, that goes on some clipboard, you know, that then, you know, your life insurance gets a whole of that. And they're like, oh, guess what? Your premiums went up $300 every single month. You're like, what? I would have just said no. You know what I mean? So now you're in the position and a lot of people do this. They're just like, I am the picture of health. I am vegan. I fast, what a day a week because there's, it's just a tough place. You know, and I, I feel bad for doctors because oftentimes, you know, they're just afraid of catching litigation. So they have to disclose everything. They also, you know, from this show, you know, and talking to a lot of different AI apps, they're not incentivized to have more information either. You know, so I wonder if in your validation with this, if, if doctors are a little bit hesitant to want to kind of get like the backside of an app like this, or if that's an option largely because now they're going to have a lot more data points that they're going to have to make pulling to consideration when they're doing diagnosis. This episode is brought to you by a dangerous idea. It's called reading, specifically the AI for founders newsletter 47,000 founders strong now. And it's the good stuff. No top 10 AI tools that will change your life written by someone who doesn't ship product. It's just real breakdowns of what's actually working in AI. Who's raised, who failed, who pivoted, and which founders quietly built a million dollars in ARR while everyone else was arguing on X. It's written for people building with AI every week you get tactical frameworks, unfair advantages, breakdowns of real companies, and the occasional existential question about whether your startup is intelligent or just well branded. It's free, it's sharp, it might mildly offend your current workflow. Go to AIforfounders.co and subscribe before you're competitive to us because the only thing worse than being replaced by AI is being replaced by a founder who reads that's the newsletter at AIforfounders.co now back to the show. It's such a great point, right? The holy grail of what this is going to become, the winner at the end of the race year really is because everything can be pulled, right? Legally now. And the push back into a provider or the push back into epic into the patient's chart requires a ton of more red tape and it's a five year process you have to go get third party risk assessments, committee approvals with each place, right? And so, but you know, I've talked to a lot of doctors and lifestyle medicine advocates and value-based care doctors and it is that they're scared, right? If they say, okay, I read this information that came from an urgent care facility in Denver that is in this guy's chart that's fed back into there and I missed diagnosing based on that data. They're on the line. They're heads on the shopping block. And so, how to do that super carefully, right? We had we had an additional caregiver feature in an early version of Sava and we ended up taking it out because I was sitting there going, okay, you know, make your doc the the additional caregiver and have this data feedback to them, but a certified copy of everything that's going on in the app, going to them. No, I mean, they have to sit there and read it. First of all, these people have no time in the day. Plus, they're held accountable. Okay, I read that and then I prescribed this medication still, oops, I forgot they were taking this other medication with another doctor on the other side of the country or they went to Thailand and had, you know, this treatment done and I saw it, but I didn't remember it three months later. And so, that's a very interesting thing you brought up in terms of, you know, how do what does that look like? So, we took it out completely. You know, I think it'd be great for me to get like a ram on across the street, you know, plugged in. So when she gets her blood work done and I can check in, when's her medication? Is she been sleeping all this stuff? But to on the physician side of that, it's it becomes liability issue for sure. Yeah, what's the capacity? Or maybe the liability for the prescriptive nature of AI. So, is there any kind of like guardrails you have to put on it that it's not saying like, this is what you should do or like make medical recommendations? Yeah, you know, a lot of this is a that's very good question. On that side, right? We are not you were not certified as a medical device in the eyes of the FDA. And to do and either is aura and neither are our big companies, right? And they do so because so that they can stay away from that. But, you know, I think that they're the big LLMs are are having to deal with that because for us, we don't draw medical conclusions. Yeah, from engineering, the context engineering of the different AIs we use, it's hey, do not draw medical conclusions, do not give medical advice. And all and and to kind of safeguard that to help people understand that before and after every single thing they read inside the app, the following information is not medical advice. You know, if you're experiencing something severe, go talk to a physician and then what at the end of it, the what you just read was not medical advice. So we're trying to protect ourselves in that way, as well as, you know, get the get the AI for bid the AI from doing so. But just letting the people know, hey, no, this is not to replace your doctor. This is a this is a stop for in between visits, right? This is this is when, you know, okay, you had a blood test result come in. And, you know, for me, it's impossible. I mean, you see SF guy, it takes it's like, oh, see you in two and a half months, right? It's like, whoa, I mean, I just I have the results sitting on my phone. I mean, how am I not going to plug that through Google or through chat, or through T or through Saba, right? I mean, who's not going to do that in this day and age? And so, yeah, I mean, I think that the big companies, the Googles and the open a eyes of the world are are looking at that. And, you know, it's a, it's a whole process with with the government and with the FDA and to be certified. And we're we're staying away from that arena on purpose. Yeah, 100%. But it opens itself to kind of these anecdotal things that you can't necessarily get in the doctor's office. A lot of times, you know, it's like a lot of people have high blood pressure when they're at the doctor because they're stressed out that they're at the doctor. You know, it's like, it's like they go ahead and hand. So you like, you have to remove sometimes the doctor experienced it to to actually get a direct measurement. So you could do that in in like basically, um, keep an eye on that yourself through something like Strava, you know, another thing that I think would be just a application that I could imagine using is, you know, just reporting on how you feel because mental health is obviously like a big, um, a big factor for all of us, whether it's stress, anxiety, depression, we all go through a different phase and we're all trying to work through things like that. But for me, it's usually more helpful to think about those things in terms of like actually my physicality. You know, I'm saying where it's like, ah, man, I feel kind of down today. And you know, Strava could be like, well, bro, you only slept four nights or four hours a night for the last four nights. Like, oh, yeah, it's not that I'm have a depressed episode. I'm tired. You know, or another example is like here in Denver, you know, I'm a hot yoga guy. So I'll try and go to hot yoga five to six days a week. But on top of that, I live in the dang desert. So like hydration is like, it's a full time job. You know, this is like number three for the day. And I got salt in here and I've tried a million different things. So really, I'm trying to figure out like how much water do I need to drink? What's the best liquid to me? Right? Now it seems like bone broth with a little Himalayan salt really helps out. But like if I'm reporting on a daily basis, like here's my water, here's my food, here's my workouts, here's my diet, here's how I feel. You know, then, you know, the LLMs can come in and be like, "Hey, man, actually we've noticed that if you drink a quart of bone broth the next day usually feel better 90% of the time." You know, so it's like little insights like that on like outcomes based on like your own behavior that I think could be like really helpful. You've Cal AI or my fitness pal to log all that. Cal AI now. I was a my fitness pal guy for years. Well, I guess they now acquired Cal AI. How did you know? Yeah. Oh, wow. That must have been recent because I know that guy when he was like a 19 or something like that. Yeah. But the rumor, it was a hundred million dollar deal. What a savage. I know. That kid. He went to, and he's still went, he was a freshman at the U. So he like did a year at the U. I heard this interview with him. He was like, I don't think I'm going to go back next year. Yeah. No, I wonder why not. Yeah. What a stud. Yeah, I got to look into that again. I know that we read both. We can read data from both of those apps in into. Yeah. Which is cool. Right. You just have to connect to Apple Health Kit and it's it's done dotted. So it's inside the app. Very cool. Do you what are you, are you elementing or for the sols or use actual pink Himalayan salt? I've tried that. I've tried probably just about every single hydration thing that's out there. What's the best one? It's like EBS or something like that. Well, I'm not familiar with that one. I like, I drink element. I think it's called element. I call them element because yeah, elements good. Elements good drip drop is pretty good. But my my go to will be like a giant jar of water with a full lemon squeezed in in like a pinch of salt like that does pretty good. But I think it's the bone broth right now. I'm like, there's this like Korean bone broth that you can get a Costco that pretty darn good. I mean, it's it seems to like be more satiating. Like it actually maybe is a salt in it that you can feel like the hydration more than just the liquid. I don't know. I wrote down bone broth. I'm going to have to talk to my wife about that one. She's a she's three bone broth all day long. It seems like and I'm curious what that would be like in one of my salt drinks. So I've got this is a full salt right here. Like stay salty right here on the. Nice. Nice. So you struggle with the battles of hydration. Do you I'm a these days I'm so busy trying to get this thing out. I'm my workout regimen is completely shifted. And so I've got on and down on the garage. And what I'll do is I'll take my early morning calls with my co founder and my team. I'll just be sitting in the sauna. Now I mean, that's not working out. I'm like, I said, all I could squeeze in. I look at a 4 30 and I look at my phone before I go to the gym, which is normal. I've done I'm just okay. I got I've got a fire to put out. Oh gosh. And so I'll sit on and out and that's as good as I'll get pretty much. So I sit there in there for 45 minutes in my infrared sauna and crush a salt crush a a curge or filled water. And I'm going to try some lemon some bone broth in there tomorrow for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I just can't get caught up unless I don't go to hot yoga for like three, four days and then I can feel it. But like it's starting to like, it's, you know, it's all again anecdotal stuff. So it's like brain fog. Like sometimes I can't pull the names out that I want. And I'm like, what is it? Am I having a stroke? And it's like, no, dude, you're dehydrated again. And again, and again, but I just love the sweat. So what am I going to do? That's so funny, dude. So let's talk about the inception of Sava. Where did the idea come from and kind of what were your first steps in motion? Yeah, you know, my business partner, I'm at, he's a brilliant technologist and I'm, you know, at the back and call of this guy. He's just, he's so brilliant. It's really, it's his conception. We've been together for on a previous startup. I was the head of sales and the first sales hire and the third, the first employee, really. A small startup called Protocol First. And these guys, what we were doing is they were going into EHRs and enabling pharmaceutical companies and life science companies to have access to this data without having to send a human being from Zurich over to NYU Land Go and to do clinical trial, coordination and review. And we were, it's kind of cool because we were the first with a call. I know if you know the acronym fire, but when it comes to healthcare data and our ability, the fire standard, you know, developed by HL7 against all that's just acronym. The heck out of this conversation. The ability to use fire, we were the first fire app that that any epic hospital ever utilized to extract patient identifiable health information outside of hospital firewalls and send it in our cases to electronic data capture systems used for the FDA submission process. And so COVID came around and all of a sudden every pilot we had, all these farmers were come, oh my gosh, I can't get my data out of these healthcare institutions. And so Rose Pharma, via Flannier and Health bought that company, swallowed it up pretty quickly then after. And we were sitting there one day, a midnight trying to figure out what we wanted to do next. And we noticed that the 21st century ONC Cures Act, this piece of legislation that come through, that basically says, you know, third parties like like Sabo or Chatchee BT or, you know, Amazon can get access to someone's health data records as long as they credentialize themselves. And should have gone, wow, I mean, we've been all through fire. And we're just looking at going, hey man, we've been doing this stuff for a long time. That be how cool is that. You know, there's a little asterisk in there. If you read the fine print that you don't need to be hippocompliant with that data, which is a problem, I think, that is happening in the industry today, right? There's all sorts of deferious characters and capitalists, if you will, that can go out and do anything they want with this data. But from a population health perspective, what an awesome thing. Okay, people can actually, you know, make decisions that don't need to go through Epic, they can go through, you know, opening it up to third parties. And so we started building it and started building these pipes, we call ourselves a blue collar workers, just going into a healthcare system, building that pipe between us and them and moving on to the next. And then AI started blowing up and saying, oh, what a cool thing instead of going to WebMD or Googling your symptoms, you know, to actually get answers to these questions that are actually rooted in your data. Like instead, you know, like, why do I have a headache? Do I have brain cancer? Like, wait, wait, no, you use my fitness pal and you lost four glasses of shardnave, nine five times. What do you mean, you know, or no, you're dehydrated. You've been doing hot yoga six days a week and trying to, you know, provide those insights. And so, and then you look at that, we looked at the wearables, right? I got my wound here charging at the moment. I'm going to like, what a cool thing that you could have all that stuff in one place. Most people, whether you're a biohacker, or managing a chronic disease, or, you know, a boomer, whoever you are, most people have more than one, maybe not more than one wearable, but, you know, like if you have Strava or you have my fitness power, you have a peloton and a wound or a garment, why do you use my garment when I ski? And I use my Apple, it's when I'm sitting in the office. Being able to put all this data in plus, you know, I used to live in Utah. I have health records with the University of Utah, but UCSF with UCLA when I was in college out in Southern California. And being able to, okay, what about one place? I set up all these logins where just you can have just a unified experience and track your goals and see how many steps you've done through this, my peloton and my, my sauna downstairs and track your weight through a withing smart scales and just a way to have one step instead of all these things that people have. So that's what sparked it. And we were early on, right? I had to convince people a year and a half ago that this was a good idea that all of a sudden in October, barely, me launched, right? Google came out with what their version of this and, you know, that's a pretty interesting product. They asked for your social security number. As you side up, I mean, he's going to share their medical records with Google, not me, but you're up to each their own. And then a couple of months later, you've got Chet G.B.T. and Anthropic launching in the same week. And now just last week or two weeks ago, Amazon's gotten in, Microsoft kind of rebranded their co-pilot product and again, asking you for their medical records. And so it's heated up really fast, you know, it's extremely validating. Also, you know, a bunch of 700 pound gorillas in the room now. So it's kind of a humbling experience from a startup operator's perspective. But the important differentiator is you don't share anybody's information with anybody, correct? And the whole thing, we don't have accounts versus foremost. Yeah. You know, the whole thing about, you know, encrypted and transit and rest and de-identified, we go one step higher. We're unidentified. I don't want a 23-minute taught us all, right? We're not doing anything to the data. We're just storing. it don't worry about it. Then one day they have a bad quarter and oh by the way, we're monetizing this data down a million ways and it's already happened. You can't make the decision. So for us, we don't have any identifiable way to trap people. Plus we're using local storage on device. The app gets bigger over time as you get more medical records and more things come in there, right? As opposed to storing this data in the cloud, I don't want to sit here one day. I need a bigger sauna. I'm going to start monetizing my people's users data. We won't even have the option or some company comes in and it acquires us. There's no data sitting there. It's on people's phones. It's never kept in our servers. Whether it's a medical record or a workout or a whoop, right? Or rings another one, right? This was an oral ring up until September. I was so pissed. You catch an oral ring thing. It's September where the CEO got on stage and oh by the way, we have an $800 million deal with volunteer. You're like dude, what? Do I at least write stuff to pay eight bucks a month? Oh, I do. Okay. So there's just no incentive at all. And you're just selling. Oh, it's all being done safely. Right? Oh, like actually, can I get in and look at the source code on that? Really? I don't. I don't. The consumers lost trust. And so that's our big thing is, it puts it, you know, it's a problem. If you talk about it too much, people start going, why is this guy talking about security and privacy? And no one can believe I can lie through a privacy policy just like any other company. I can lie to you on this podcast recording right now. But if we'll see, check out the app growing on your phone, turn on airplane mode and questions to the AI agents and just this is not happening on the internet. And we feel it feel like I can't, I can't name another company in the space that's doing it. And I think it's important. Well, and the audience of this podcast, they're all building locally. I mean, they're all, you know, six, I, you know, Mac, many's deep on their desk because they don't want that relay either, you know, so I think it's, it's incredibly important because yeah, everyone's going to be trying to do this because you can, you can just see in their eyes, like, I mean, the value of that. It's like they're, you know, non-sanctioned clinical trials for everything. You know, it's like how many freedom can people really eat before they keel over? Turns out, it's about 10 pounds. We have the data, you know what I mean? Like, you're just running free trials for these companies and like, it's gross and that there will be repercussions. I think, you know, unfortunately, the, the, the temperature of culture right now is very distrustful from like, you know, big tech for sure, government for sure. You know, once they're all intertwined and it seems like they're just cozy, cozy bedmates now. It just, it seems to put, hang us out to dry, put it that way. Really, right? And who knows what happens downstream, right? That's the whole idea. And it's not even, you know, I'm not worried about it, you know, a Russian hacker getting my medical information or, or, you know, something like that happening. I'm, but I'm like, worried about an insurance company having access to, oh, hey, you know, I've got Steve's wearables. I've got his medical records. I got every conversation he has with the two of them. And I'm smart. I'm a pair. I call those guys pairs because they have a lot of money. And there's a lot of intelligent people that work at these companies. And they, it's easy for them to run a quick algorithm. Like, hey, Steve's pre-diabetic. And he doesn't even know his doctor doesn't even know. And we're going to boost that premium. Up until the day he finds out, and then we're just going to stop covering them, right? Yeah. That's HIPAA's health insurance portability. The first three letters, man. It's, it's all about protecting ourselves from those guys. And so I just, I think it's scary. I think that when the dust, like you said, you know, I think due process and these things will happen eventually when the dust settles. Like there's some, some nefarious characters that are kind of taking advantage of a piece of legislation that was passed, you know, three, four years ago now. And it just blows our mind. It just every day when these new products come out, it's going to wait. I'm going to share my, I'm going to share my data with this massive tech company that only makes money by harvesting data. Right. And like, with my most private information that they have on me, it's absurd. It's absolutely absurd. I know. And you know, that's why I get so excited about the medical devices and the applications and the people that are trying to bridge and help for this because we're in such a dire place. You know, if it's not on device, if they have their way, then you'd be going to the, you know, you could be like, Oh, duh. I got a, my tooth is killing me, man. Can you fix it? And you'd be like, well, we'd love to cover you. But we noticed you had ice cream three times this month. So we're not going to. It's like, what? You know, I wish it wasn't so like nefarious as that. But it sure feels like it is sometimes. It's getting. That's where we're heading. If unless something happens, that's the direction we're heading in. And I mean, we're going to live or die on that cross. We're not, I'm not going to play in that space. It's 26. Data is king. I get it. If I want like a beach front house in Lake Tahoe, should probably start harvesting people's data. I'm not going to play in that space. I'd rather go open up a lemonade stand outside my house and do it that way instead. I'm not, I'm not going to do it. And it remains, you know, to be seen. I think it's still really early. But I think, you know, you look at some of these products and these companies. And, you know, I think Chatubetese is already kind of pivoted away. You know, they're trying to, to compete with with Claude and with on the with the engineering side. And I think that the American consumer is more intelligent than just being willing to do this. But maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, totally well. You know, GPT has got their own PR problems now. They have to pick one at a time for sure. But let's talk about your house in Tahoe. Now you price this at 10 bucks a year. So how did you kind of land on that pricing model? I mean, again, Cossier's medicine, right? I've got buddies. It's the city who have these, you know, badass doctors that can go visit that they have their mental health all handled in one place, farther gym and their spa and red light therapy. I mean, not no one can afford these tools. Like who the average person can not. And so from a population health perspective, we looked at and said, Hey, you know, we're a small team. Because we have direct access to these EHRs and we don't go through health information exchanges or any vendors, we have 314,000 connected health care institutions in the States right now in the app directly, not going through the B wells and the common wells and the health x's of the world direct direct links. And we don't have to pay for those API calls, right? So we've in the same thing with it with the wearables and we didn't go directly to whoop and directly to garment and directly all these big companies and pay for these API calls. We had with the Apple Health to go into the whoop app, click over Apple share Apple Health now all of a sudden, sov is reading it and that's for free too. And so we've made it in a way that's it's cheap to operate. Yeah, it's not it's not like it's a big lift. And so for the cost of coffee, you know, I just think the value, what population density on this thing? It's not it's not a, if I was charging $150 a year or $150 a month, like we have people in the space that are doing that, I think it's absurd, right? I mean, you can go into the app for free and get all this information. You can run this stuff through the free, you can download all of your health data, all of your medical records data, all the things are doing for your TRT therapy and throw it all into the free version of GPT. Yes, it's all in the cloud now and it's all out there, but you can do that for free. I think we just wanted to create something that's accessible and and includes everyone. And really the global footprint of SAVA is the goal, right? When you go to the website, we have a thing called universal records and I've lost it in the last six months trying to get the consumer app built and getting Apple approved and all this stuff. But the goal for this is, you know, okay, maybe a hundred million people in Western Europe and the US have access to EHRs and you can get those people connected for the next five years. And that same time period, I need a billion people in underserved regions around the world, right? Places where at a couple hundred million dollars of an EHR build, it's not coming to Daris, Salam, Tanzania. It's in my son's lifetime, like modern healthcare, digital health, cannot, there's no infrastructure. They can't afford any of that. So for us, I look at SAVA as more of a global tool for this, for your weather, you're living in rural US or on the moon, you have access to the same data set. You put all your data in there and weather for you have, if you don't have an EHR upload documents, it treats it in chronological order as a visit, try to create this history. And so that's really the reason is that, you know, the guy in Daris, Lamton, Zania can swallow $10 a year and try to make this more of a global footprint, as opposed to just in the US and Western Europe. It's beautiful. And a couple of thoughts on that, you know, I think that's really the future for software now because as the price of software, goes to zero and you can just like, oh, I just vibe code that myself. And you're just like, yeah, but do I really want to when they've absolutely nailed it right here? It's inexpensive. You know, and then the second component is this is an amazing add on for healthcare providers where the value add is enormous. It doesn't have anything to do with them. So they could easily put that into their, their, uh, their packages with, you know, with very little expense that people use every day. You know, it's like I get emails from United healthcare all the time about like, check this out, check that out. And one was like, check out our, you know, uh, diet and wealth management tool and I went there and it was like a blog with kids on a swing set. I'm like, bro, what am I doing over here on your blog? United healthcare? I don't want this whereas as opposed to like a tool that would integrate into like my daily practice all the time, you know, um, it seems, it seems really smart. So let's talk about go to market because you're just approved with Apple iOS, which means like you're in the game now, like you're, you're ready to get users aside from, you know, the AI for founders user lift. Um, how else are you planning on getting subscribers? No, it's a great question. Right. We met because we got approved on Saturday or Sunday this weekend. So cool. So, you know, it's time to kick tires to it. It's like, okay, you know, here it comes. Next, maybe three weeks month, I'm probably going to put this out there on the app store. This is our first foray into consumer health. Uh, the consumer are facing anything for my, my business partner and I. And so we are, we have this whole mentality for no stone unturned, right? We're doing podcasts where we have 2000 people on the beta that I've, uh, have gotten by having one on one conversations for the past nine months. Yeah. wrong all day to day. I've been on the phone talking with people evangelizing them. One by one and then my ask with every single one of them is, Hey, like, whether you're a physician or your, you know, uh, uh, a patient advocate or you work for a non-profit or whoever you are, yes, I want access to your people. But more so just like, you know, talk to your aunt, just paying forward one person at a time, right? It's, uh, it's a, it's a free app with a $10 a year premium on it, right? If, um, it's not like it's, we're asking a lot. So the go to market is all, a consumer facing it to a lot of podcasts. This is maybe my 15, they're 20th podcasts I've done a recording for in last couple of months and, um, trying to get on as many as I can to kind of talk about it and the differentiators with how we're doing security and privacy and, um, a lot of big time doctors. I think that, you know, about a thousand of my 2000 participants are all MDs. And not just number ones ones that are lifestyle medicine doctors are my favorite group of people I know where they were a year ago. And everyone I talked to is a lifestyle medicine doc. Those guys are cool. Yeah. On Japanese specialists, you're like, Oh, what are you guys doing? What are you? Or like, Oh, you know, you can reverse diabetes. You know, there's ways to, uh, you know, eat healthier work out more. It's like, well, you know, that's like, those guys like six years ago, we're like, we, like normal doctors. I don't know. So those guys take the meds. Do you, do the insulin injections? Like, no, no, no, no, no. Um, and so trying to talk to, you know, I think there's nine million followers on LinkedIn, just a, just through our 2000 people I've gotten, um, trying to, you know, get up of the day and, I mean, do all these things, but it's a total crap shoot, right? We're, we're unfunded. We're, we're bootstraps, which is, you know, another kind of, let's go into what we're talking about, we'll go to market. I can't love to, to give all the money in the world to American college, the lifestyle medicine and American diabetes, American heart and go through these patient advocacy groups and these cancer coaches and like, just like, let's go. But without that, it's all organic. Just having conversations one by one and, um, right, we have verticals. Like you mentioned it, if, if you, you know, when I was leaving UCS south of my, when my son was born a couple years ago, my wife and I were walking out and the outpatient nurse goes, Hey, by the way, you get the call map for free on us. I'm like, what have I been paying for that for years? What? And I looked it up and all those guys are doing is just a business relationship. They're marketing department, okay, man, you know, we have this thing. We think it's super cool. It's safe. It's secure. It's a way for, you know, to people for, for people to basically force them to meditate. I think people who say they meditate, I don't believe them. It's just impossible. I, at least for me, I can't think one second without a thought, I had it's impossible. And they all they're doing is, Hey, you know, instead of $10 a year in our case, okay, $10 a year, okay, they buy it from us for $3 a year at bulk. It's not given to people on the way out the door. That's what I want this to have with healthcare on that vertical. As well as taking place with, you know, like the Maha movement where we're kind of, you know, doing all that we can with Make America Healthy again. It's kind of a, there's a lot of trendy stuff that's, that's going on over there. You know, the, the health tech ecosystem and CMS access is really cool. And if you're, if you're right up on the access model and that, that's going to be launching this July. So try to do a lot of things on the enterprise side of the business as well to support what we're doing with consumers. But it all starts with consumers. We can't do anything without, hey, man, we got these, this amount of people in the app and it's growing and it's, you know, we still have to, it's a battle right now. It's a, if you have any ideas, I am all years right in terms of, I got some ideas. I'll tell you off air. But I tell you what bootstrap founders are my absolute favorite man, you know, that so I, I, congratulations on getting it through the iOS store. That is a major hurdle. I know. So it's really exciting. So if you're thinking about like throwing a, a dart at the calendar, what's going to be the launch date? You know, I think we'd probably will launch, I mean, looking at the calendar right now, maybe an, an, an earth day for 20 maybe something like that. That's the first time I've thought about it. Yeah. But that's, that's looking at the calendar. Maybe something like that. I think I had my, I have three unfaithed interns, shout out interns. They all reached out to me from different colleges in my country. I think that's always tell potential investors like what a KPI, you know, got all these kids coming to me say, Hey, bro, I hope anyway I can. This is rad as well as my sales guy, Shabba on, on, on payroll. We're, you know, we're changing our entire process. We're talking to journalists for the next month. We're talking to press. We're talking to bloggers. We're talking to broadcasters as, as now that this, it was a six month battle to get Apple the app. I mean, it was an insane. I could, I could have, I would have bet the farm under six months, but I would have lost everything on that one. Incredible. Well, and shout out to those interns too. That's really smart. You know, one of the founders of this program, AINATIVESTUDIANT.com, that's what they recommend to right now because all these college students, you know, are midway through their degree and they're looking at, at the end of the day, like a lot of those jobs, the job market just is not can exist in two years, the way it is now or two years ago. So they're always encouraging us like, go out and connect with AI companies right now. So shout out to them. Yeah. Smart guys all across the board. We've had maybe six in total over the summer. We had two others, one from USC, one at University of Maryland and they were busy, you know, busy with their studies right now. But hopefully we get them back this summer. And there's any interns out there, hit me up on LinkedIn for sure. I'm, I could use all the help I could get. Amazing. Steven, this is so exciting. When you do hit that official launch date, let me know. We'll do everything we can to help distribute that message. I can't wait to check it out. Sova, what's the website for? Sova. S-A-V-V-A-D-A-I, and you can sign up for the beta right now. And after you click your interest at about a minute later, you'll receive an invite from Test Light and you'll get on it. Incredible. And the best place to connect with you personally, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, or if you're, if anyone's ever in Sonoma, California, a little village of Sonoma was born and raised here. And if you go down to Sonoma Plaza and scream my name, I'll hear you. And I'll, I'll reach you down there for for coffee, beer, wine, drink food, whatever it is. That's another good way to get a hold of me. Come to Sonoma. Here wine, good food. If you hear a conch shell, that's me. I've been waiting for it, man. You said you're coming out. I'm waiting. Amazing. Steven, congratulations. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks Ryan. You are about to spend anywhere from 100,000 to $300,000 on your kids college education. And that's not a small bet. And right now, there's a very real chance that they graduate and can't find a job, not because they weren't smart enough, not because they didn't work hard enough, but because the job market changed and nobody told them employers are hiring AI native candidates, people who don't just know their field, but know how to work with AI at a professional level. And most colleges are not teaching this, not even close. AI native student.com is the program that fills that gap. It takes high school and college students and teaches them how to actually think and work with AI the way top companies expect on day one. So your investment in their degree actually pays off. You're already paying for tuition, housing, textbooks. This is the one thing that actually makes it all worth it. Go to AINative Student.com because a diploma is a starting point. Being AI native is what gets them hired. That's AI native. student.com.