The Truth About Local Newsletters No One Wants To Admit with Daniel Berk

Email does change and email has changed but I don't think email is going anywhere where I think we have at least 10 years more of people using email There is no alternative to email email is still the most valuable audience you can have long time It goes someone like putting me up on a screen at a conference and shit on me because I said emails and owned audience platform Who is that? Yeah, don't say their name deleted from the record FBI This is so ridiculous to say that what we're talking about is you own the contact information As long as this people agree to receive messages from you you own the funnel is what it is if you don't own the actual distribution funnel To get in contact with them if that tech layer stopped existing then you don't own anything the tech layer owns it Hey, welcome to new media. I'm your host Colby here with Matt. Hey today's episode We're joined by Daniel Burke the original sales guy from beehive and now also the co-host of money wise He also has a local newsletter Multi-hyphenate guy lot going on. He does so much stuff. He's a fun guy that talked to we we dove into a lot of Different stuff too. So this is like a variety episode. We talked about his local media company and local newsletter He's building. He is kind of a unique angle. It's not going after the typical audience that most people are We dove into like a bunch of creative ways to monetize that people consider if they run a local media company Honing the town Honing the town. Yeah, some ideas people haven't totally taken advantage of yet But I think we'll see more of soon some potential trends. Yeah, awesome And what was the final thing we cover? We dove into an interesting question, which is our newsletter is still worth it like Can you still grow a newsletter get in the inbox make money from email and we had discussion around You know, is that still possible because you know, there's been some haters out there even sub-stack Had to talk about how email is less reliable. So we had debate about that and we gave you yeah, the tweet and we gave you our thoughts So here's the pod. All right Daniel. What's up? Thanks for joining. Not too much man. It's great to be here It's gonna see you again both of you. I feel like it's it's been gears, but also only a few moments since we last saw Yeah, that's right in new media summit not too long ago and hopefully we'll see y'all again soon there Tell us about um, what's not like local media local newsletters for a second because you've been building a cool local media company That has a unique angle. I haven't seen Colby is building one too So give us an actually don't know a lot about it So give us the rundown of like what it is and then we want to talk about How to successfully build one because a lot of listeners have a local media company or newsletter or in so many people are curious to start one Yeah, I think First the thought comes to mind is what does success look like? And I think a lot of people think there's this arbitrage opportunity to build a local media company that's going to make you like millions and millions of dollars I look at it quite a bit differently like the local media company It's self-sustaining it makes us some money, but it's the intent isn't even for it to be the million dollar opportunity The intent for us is to be intentional about deliberately networking with people in our real world You know everything we do behind a screen I work in tech you work in tech slash adjacent media We're we're always behind screens and so when we get out into the real world that that's our lives This is also our lives Well, like that's actually our lives and so the local media play for us is Let us build a space that people resonate with in our and since its parents So the the local media companies called Paul Medo parents started really is just a weekly newsletter two years ago In Somerville, South Carolina. It's since evolved to three different newsletters two weekly and then one biweekly or monthly rather and It's really evolved into a place where people actually resonate with other Paul Medo parents And so we address them as Paul Medo parents. It's like a community adjacent type of IRL Resonation with all these different parents who subscribe to this newsletter Which is now an event and we've just had our two-year kind of celebration with hundreds of people They brought their families. We you know booked out this massive outdoor coffee shop thing and People are like constantly replying and thanking us for what we're doing It's filling a void and it's meeting a real need and it's really just giving information and First-hand experiences about what the heck do you do in this area with kids and a lot of people have kids in this area And all of them are trying to figure out how to occupy these kids of theirs for you know However many hours per day, and so we kind of provide that space for people to learn but also connect with other parents What's cool about these is like you actually you solve your own problem you scratch you and itch you impact a lot of people and It's I think I've been tempted to start a local newsletter because of that like it seems really fun Not all of it's easy, but it is maybe more fun than the average side hustle that people think about like it's not AI automation or whatever like the 18-year-olds are doing now nowadays that may or may not even work AI drop shipping. Hey, I drop shipping all that stuff But but there is like a similar type of trend around like local media people think it's like the next You know make 10k a month thing and there are a lot of financially successful ones But I want to think I want to learn like how you and your wife have thought about monetization How it makes money emission this event all that stuff. Yeah, the event was a cost the way we think about money right now and profit is Really attacks plays whenever I spend money or sorry whenever I make money I actually quite deliberately spend as much as I made if not more so that I can report a loss Again, this is not my path to seven figure net worth. It's it's it's really meeting a community need and we've even Considered incorporating it as a 501c3 just because it is actual community service in a sense But the way that we're making money is you know your typical ad placement with partners that you know Want to reach this ICP which is parents and typically decision makers and single-family households You know blue slash upper middle class some white collar workers Obviously a lot of people that work from home who you know resonate with the fact that I work from home So there's there's that aspect but Your typical ad partners will be anyone from like you know home security to you know pet parlors and you know all the Different things that your typical single-family household is frequenting as a consumer, but we also have a paid kind of Wikipedia model as well And so you know, hey if you if you like this, you know, please help keep it free by paying us And there's like a five dollar month 40 dollar a year one-time payment options Again, these aren't really It does it does work. It's not we have I mean we're breaking even in a lot of acquisition strategies We have with that which again is the hope I think if I if I changed the business model and said all right We want to make six figures a year on this thing. I think I think I could But again, it's it's doing what we want it to do and I think the business model of it is let us provide this space and this Community for people where they can resonate with who we are and what we do and the lifestyle that we've chosen to live and People can meet each other and and be kind of part of that community as well And so there is an internal struggle where I have or okay. I could I know how to build businesses But it's almost like this is like not a business as much as it is something that we feel is meeting a real need that Obviously we need to make sure we're paid for but I don't know It's not the million dollar opportunity I think a lot of local newsletter operators are people who want to start one think it could become yeah No way I mean as one who I run a smaller one than yours But I don't really see it ever being that large unless you expand the scope of the content Yeah, just like the publishing cadence and Things like that. I do see them as a way to connect with your community To meet other folks to make connections. It's very rewarding. It's a very rewarding site. I'll be hard to put a value to that 100% we go out into the community and like people know who we are they know our face and our family We go to a coffee shop. We communicate with the owners of all of them in our area And they all know us by name a lot of them have supported us a lot of them have come to our events Like these these people are the real people and so I think the the threshold that people would need to break through from Hyper niche local community to like Highly profitable lucrative business opportunity is breaking into this like regional national level of brand partnership space that we've just simply Chosen not to do because it's like we don't need to bombard our audience with that They know they can go to home depot and buy the wood they need for their home project like why why put home depot as an advertiser here Yeah, is that what you think the path is like if you were to blow the doors off and be like all right one year Let's make seven figures with the local newsletter How would you do it? I would arbitrage the audience with a different business idea and I have plenty of them I've considered opening a co working space. I've considered opening a podcast studio. I've considered starting other brick-and-mortar businesses in the area in the moment I do that I have 20,000 people I can sell that to and so what I've done with my own podcast two dads and tech I've sold Placement in my own newsletter with that business. I've gotten subscribers and partners for that with ad placement for that business I've done a lot of similar things with different newsletter behind stuff in my own audience and so there's Certainly on the like an arbitrage of the audience that you can use and lean into in a way that's not off-putting But is not a profitable venture in that audience specifically you're you're just adopting it With a different property that you own in my case, and I think that's really the play to do it the right way Yeah, we're talking about a few of them books about that a couple weeks ago. Yeah, it's awesome to hear you say that too Because that's my dream with mine is to own a bunch of brick-and-mortar in town. I got obsessed with Peaky Blinders like a year ago and I was like, "I want to own the town. How do I own the town?" And then I'm like, "Oh, I'll start a, I know how to do newsletters. I know media a little bit about that. I'll like, "Hey, I'll start a local newsletter." But I mean, I agree. I think that's the path. I think it'd be so cool to, you know, not only provide that connection in your community, but have a local business just hang out and then know people. I guess everybody's like, "Dream," at least it's fine. Yeah, local celebrity. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I would say celebrity, but like people business owners in celebrity, Daniel. They, yeah. Yeah, I think there's a pattern there because that really is the, the monetization played. Like the, the local newsletters, the loss leader. And if you want to run that playbook, your local service business or your local brick and mortar business is the, the profit center. And unfortunately, I don't have a lot of examples of that right now. I think we'll see a lot more of that trend happening. I'm sure we'll talk more about it in talking more examples on the podcast in the future. But that's cool. I was texting Colby last night in the world's largest chest of drawers. Is it a building? I don't understand what it is. Is it a building? I was like, oh, it'd be cool if I could buy that and I like had a local newsletter. And it's right by like a huge children's center. But it's like, yeah, I don't know what we would do that. You can walk inside of it. Yeah, you can walk inside of it. It's a 3000 square foot building, but on the front is the world's largest chest of drawers. And I think when when done right, it just improves your quality of life. We get a bunch of free things that we would otherwise be paying for as parents with kids in this area. And so, you know, people will give us free tickets to like the aquarium and free tickets to like a petting zoo and, you know, give us coffee when we show up. Like these are things we're going to do. Anyways, so like there's a intangible value of like being recognized, knowing we have to write about something every week and now 150 weeks in like, there's only so many restaurants to write about. And so like you start to be, I don't know, not treated differently, but like people do recognize like there is a need for us to understand what's going on in the area and produce more content. And so there is a kind of an always on feed of new ideas being given to us in many ways. I want to talk about monetization real quick because I think I followed the space closely. And there's a lot there's bigger players like Axios local in six amp city and community impact in many others that have built businesses from local media. I don't know as much about community impact, but they're one of the more financially successful ones. But like kind of the Williswell known ones are Axios local in six amp city. And I don't know their numbers, but you know, they maybe haven't been as financially successful as they wanted to be or as people thought they would be five years ago. But they're still doing well. So I think but they're played as a very different than what you do and what Colby is doing kind of what we're talking about. They're going after like the large metro areas like, yeah, Axios, the city as they pick. It has to be like Denver, Oakland, Dallas stuff like that. Don't say Oakland. That's my turf. Yeah. Don't go in Oakland. I don't think there are no clin. But you get the idea. It's like it's a very different and they're doing more national advertisers and just it's still worked okay. I like this more like niche underserved communities and then monetizing with a different model. And that's something that a large media coming like an Axios can just never do. Like they're never going to break out of their ad and subscription model. That's just their bread and butter and they don't have the desire or capability to do anything outside of that. There's also the play like you mentioned you don't have a lot of good examples of this. I have a great example right now because of how I think lucrative AI is right now and what businesses and these communities who are brick and mortar are, I mean just a huge gap between what they know is happening in the world that you and I and the three of us live in. AI is just developing rapidly. But your typical coffee shop or like phone booth type of brick and mortar old-fashioned mom and pop shop like they have no idea how to implement this. So I think if you have this community and audience and you wanted to start serving them services that are AI adjacent. That is a huge money maker and I'm you know I'm kind of loosely I don't want to say planning to do that. But like that is a very easy out for me if I ever wanted to go make six figures like just with a side hustle. Literally I could advertise AI services to my audience right now guarantee I could make five to six figures and year one because I've done this before with audiences with other services. So if you identify the need and the niche and you provide the right service to that audience. I think AI tooling and services is like the next thing that you'll be able to sell to these local audiences specifically. I really like that. I've heard that sort of a cottage industry of selling vibe coded software to local service providers. You know why buy HubSpot for hundreds of dollars a month when you can buy. For me down the street same product same CRM just vibe coded. And yeah I'm hopeful that there's a reinsurgence of almost like local developers that build within their communities and build tooling for business owners in their communities. There will be I mean think about how many how many thriving you know eight figure businesses exist in your own local town who have horrendous branding no social presence terrible websites no website or no like the it's a green space. And so you think of AI it's like oh I wonder how many of these companies will need AI it's like well they they might not even be framing it as AI. But what you single person can do with AI to develop at the rate that these people think is a million miles an hour. But in many cases it's just like bringing them from 2000 to 2010 is like yeah it's just so much more rapid and widespread now with the use of AI internally. There's a lot there. I also want to you know just for our audience I want to mention that there are local media companies that do very very well financially. They just don't kind of fit into the same category as like a Palmetto parents or an aptown scoop which I call these kind of like events focused like community events focused local newsletters. Like I I've read Palmetto parents a little bit and it's it seems like that's more of the focus like it's weekly or there's a couple of times a month outside of that and you're not covering like news politics sports. Exactly local but no you're covering local businesses but not from like you know local business news. And it does seem like the ones that do make money like a we've heard of like American city business journals that they have maybe a hundred plus publications across like big hubs like from near me it's like a rally Charlotte Greensboro and it's it's more for like the business and politician audience and they're covering like need to know news about budget you know zoning approval is like stuff that your local city bureaucrat and local business owner like really has to know and therefore they pay for it and like American city business journals like they have a good advertising business they have a good subscription business and they're doing well and there's other examples like that too. So I just I feel like it's not the path everybody wants to go in but I do feel you need to go more down the political path and the business path if you want to make money from the media if you want to make money from the services then events and community coverage is awesome but from the media you got to go in a different direction there's even I forget the example but there's one guy in like a small town in Texas and his whole newsletter or at least the paid part of it is he just transcribes the city council meetings and puts them behind a table I've heard of this yeah cool yeah and that it's not accessible anywhere else because no one else is transcribing them and he has a you know small six figure business doing that and a great lifestyle so it's awesome there may be more money in it in those areas yeah there are yeah but also not everybody wants that you know local local news and politics isn't isn't everybody's cup of tea I'm about it I'm I'm secretly trying to move my knees letter in that direction but that's a whole nother subject yeah especially if a good angle as I get older I think as you get older you just get more and more into that I care about parking yeah I don't want any more parking tickets you know um but yeah I'm surprised more kind of local news startups haven't done and gone deeper into that type of coverage maybe it's another conversation for later but there's it seems like there's a gap there people get worked up it's it's very divisive yeah I'm curious if if you ventured that way with Paul metal parents or hurt feedback from readers like they wanted more about what the heck is going on in summer summerville or is that right summerville it is summerville isn't that like the coolest name ever summerville um there's so many summer cities like there's a summer field near me and so I'm trying not to forget yeah we have we have a very repeatable newsletter every single week it's one event one thing to do one restaurant to try out and one inspiration for parents and we can do as much as we want in those four sections but mainly it's four specific sections and so you subscribe you know what you're getting yourself into and in many ways the feedback we've gotten when it's not hey we love this is exactly we wanted it's like well the event section only had one event it's like yeah that's what it is it's like we're we're giving you the thing that you should check out and if it doesn't resonate with you it's fine but we're very clear upfront like we're not we're not aggregating every possible event you should go to a lot of newsletters exist for that may subscribe to this and it's literally just a feed of like 600 different events like I don't I don't personally like those types of newsletters I don't think they're providing a lot of value. Like I could just use and get that in five seconds. So it's like, why am I subscribed to this newsletter? I think there's a middle ground of aggregation and real human personality where we've actually done this. Like my wife took the kids to this specific thing. Here are photos we took in a real on Instagram that we recorded in like our first hand experience. Yeah, you could do that with AI and fake it. But like you can't replace actual human going to do something and giving you their trusted feedback on what that thing was like. And so I think there's a middle ground you have to reach. So there's certainly desire from like the neighborhood groups and the Facebook groups. Oh, there needs to be more in this. What it's like, that's, you know, create it, you know. Do your own newsletters. That's not what we're trying to serve. I have two more ideas and I want to get you guys reaction on. So number one is I do think a lot of more casual local newsletters publishers couldn't make more tickleman come as a 501 scene on profit is you can pay yourself a salary and you can get donations easier because you have that foundation as a nonprofit. And you can also get like not just reader donations, but maybe corporate or grant donations. And you pay yourself like a lot of nonprofit people pay themselves a six figure salary. So I think we'll see more that. What do you think about that? We've considered it like I mentioned earlier. I think there's, there's a play there. You have to pay yourself a reasonable salary. So you're never going to get, honestly, you're never going to get wealthy, but like there are bylaws required in 501C3 where you can't just pay yourself gobs of money. I do think the grant and donation access is a little bit easier because people will write it off. I also think the outcome and exit strategy is basically removed from the table. What about open AI? No, it's a big loss issue. Just kidding, technically you cannot sell or be acquired for any meaningful amount of money to the founder if you're a 5.1C3. So a lot of people looking to do newsletter arbitrage and sell for eight, nine figures. If they become a 5.1C3, that that future exit opportunity stops existing without a lot of crazy legal loops and hurdles that are typically not going to be possible. So I think it just depends on what you want and the outcome that you're looking to achieve. I mean, maybe I'm being facetious and like using nonprofits in the wrong way, but if someone's goal is to do like the local service arbitrage, like why not have the local newsletter nonprofit and then your service business or your brick and mortar business is a regular structured business? That's a good play. There's even some advertising rules with nonprofits, but they're loose. I don't think you're allowed to make money with ads and partners and stuff. So I just, I don't know all the details, but there are details that I'd have to look and do a bit further if we went that direction. Yeah, and I wonder if Colby wants this, but I think someone, just not like podcasts have determined our national elections. I think local newsletters could potentially determine a lot of local elections and someone really is hungry for, to be the mayor of a 100, 200,000 person city or community. I mean, they should just launch local newsletter and have a unique angle on politics. It makes a lot of sense. Realtors politicians, I mean, it's a very easy way to gain an ear from everyone in your town. I mean, there's no better way in my opinion. Facebook works for some cases, but you can have direct access to your audience. And if it's the audience that you built intentionally for that access, you're going to be able to talk to them about pretty much whatever you want. It's a very nice thing to build if you're in local media or in local business at all. Colby, what other topics do you want to cover? I'd be curious, because we got this recently, we're doing a big sale for a product we have right gross sell, which is great product. We won't talk about that, but we've gotten a recent objection about our newsletter's still worth it in 2026. In general, isn't worth it to have one? And I know Substack, we can talk about that tweet that I think it was two days ago came out, sort of dog and email as a platform for audience reach. And I guess I'll start there. I'm curious, what's your reaction to somebody at Beehive? And maybe we can cover them both. I'll just read out the tweet. Is this got, yeah, for a tweet about email, this got 500,000 views, which is crazy. So to paraphrase, like Gmail has changed how tracking pixels work. So open rates are lower across platforms. And then basically the key part is Substack says, email may continue getting less reliable. We can control email providers' operate, but this is exactly why we are investing the Substack app, which delivers posts and notes directly to your audience on Substack. You have a direct line to subscribers on a platform whose business model only works when yours does. So yeah, like Holby said, kind of dog and on email as a distribution platform, what's your take? - Yeah, it's a load of question. I think Amy should agree. Everyone uses email, not everyone uses Substack. So the ultimate bottom of funnel was Substack is to get the email. He says that himself and one of his replies to Tyler is like, well, the followers are leads. And if they choose to give you your email, you have that. So okay, so the bottom of the funnel there still is email. So I think it's a little bit counterintuitive, but I think at the end of the day, the point of where does your audience come from? If it's not from the ecosystem that you're sending email on, like what Hamish argues with Substack, it is, then it has to come from somewhere. It has to come from direct outreach via email. It has to come from, I mean, back in the day, cold calling to get someone on a list. I mean, that's not really what people do anymore or social in some facet. Facebook, arbitrage, you have obviously Twitter and threads in all the different ways that you can name, drop in and drive traffic to your website and/or newsletter. I think email is tried and true. I do, as you both know, and as many of the listeners here are likely privy to, like email does change and email has changed. And a lot of the way that inboxing works is changing particularly in light of AI developments in the ways that, like superhuman, lets you categorize things by news and pitch and sales and work, et cetera. So a lot of people have their own inbox specific rules and then the actual inbox clients like a superhuman or a Gmail have additional rules. So the ESP is up against a kind of a black box always changing, always evolving email science. I think what Beehive does really well and what any of the email players are doing well that are reliable is their networking with these people at these companies. Our deliverability compliance team at Beehive goes and meets with these players at Apple and at Microsoft and at Google and all the different players that matter and inbox delivery and we have deep longstanding decades-long relationships with the people who matter. The people who are saying, yay or nay, I trust this ESP or I don't. Your inbox works, your delivery is good or it's not. And there's a lot of different, I don't want to call it politics, but like there are rules you have to play by and to build a trusted ecosystem where delivery rates are going to be very high takes an amount of human IRL hand-shanking and whining and dining and rule following to ensure that hey, when you do send an email on this platform or that one, the email is going to get delivered and if it doesn't, it's a shared responsibility. The sender may be at fault, not always the ESP. And you and I both know, sometimes delivery comes down to just terrible content or high spam or I bought this list of a million subscribers and I blasted an email to them that had $3 sign and the subject line like, okay, well that's probably not going to deliver very well 'cause it's super spammy. So I think there's a lot that goes into it. I could spend a whole episode on this but I don't think email is going anywhere. I don't think email is going anywhere. I think we have at least 10 years more of people using email. Remember, we are the 1%, 99% of the universe still uses email for all their communication that are not on Slack. I worked at a company for five years before tech that 100% of the way they communicated internally was with email like employee to employee. Like it's all they did. They didn't have Slack, they didn't have Teams. That's how a lot of these companies are still operating. And maybe they're more productive than Slack, Slack is it? They probably are, in many ways, they probably are. My take when I get Colby's take, of course, is that we're kind of over-complicating things here. Like email works, everybody wants to fear monger and offer no solutions 'cause it's way easier to tear down than actually offer an alternative, there is no alternative to email. Okay, email is still the most valuable audience you can have, the most direct audience you can have where you can actually send a meaningful message. People say SMS is good. It's fine, but you'll limit to 160 characters and it's extremely expensive. So I think this is just like a poorly done marketing suite by a sub-stack that's kind of fear mongering that, okay, email is not working more. So the sub-stack app is a better alternative. It's not a better alternative. It's not even an addition. Sub-stack app is just like another social media platform. Sub-stack notes is like Twitter and it's maybe better or worse depending on who you are and who your audience is. So, I mean, you gotta use discovery platforms like social anyways. Sub-stack notes could be in your toolkit, but you still need email. And I also think, you know, we're not gonna talk about platforms. 'Cause I use BI, but we won't talk a ton about that. That's like, where you build your email list on and the ESPU use and the CRM use is really important. And you wanna have some that gives you full flexibility and customization capability. And I don't like the platforms that basically make it extremely limited. Like, this is the core of our business, we want every capability when it comes to automation and MCP and all these, you know, fancy terms that actually really matter when it comes to how you use email and, you know, fortunately, Sub-Stack isn't isn't really offering that. I think it's philosophically always about the audience and it's not just with email, it's with any business and any output that you're trying to ultimately generate revenue from is how many degrees separated are you as the spokesperson from your ideal audience. If the layer of technology that you're using to distribute that content exists as a necessary evil in between you and your audience instead of giving you the tools so that there is no middle man between you and your audience, then definitively that is working against your ultimate goal to distribute directly to your audience. And so this like owned audience thing that, you know, everyone in their mom has different opinions about like, well, you don't really own your audience because email deliverability and all this stuff. But the concept of owned audience is that I and my audience are one degree separated. I say something, could be a podcast, could be an email, could be a digital course, could be whatever. My thing is directly to my audience and I am not at the mercy of the platform enabling that communication to continue directly communicating to them. I think the sub-stack thing is like that's necessarily existing in between spokesperson and audience. There's this app layer that they're constantly trying to intercept that audience from. Beehive and many other players don't do that. There is no middle man. It's just you are whether it's podcasts, which Beehive does now, email, courses, webinars, whatever you decide to do and communicate to that audience, like there's no there's no tech layer in the way. You just communicate directly to them. Yeah, sub-stack is like, you know, a social media platform with some email features. And which could be useful to some people, but you still need some core infrastructure to build on. Colby, what are your thoughts? And then one thing I just got to say is that like a long time ago, someone like put me up on a screen at a conference and shit on me because I said emails and owned audience platform. And they're like, oh, well, there's still Gmail and Gmail has an algorithm to determine inbox placement. Who is that? Yeah, don't say their name. I wasn't going to. I was obviously this deleted for the record FBI. No one actually thinks that you literally own these people. This is so ridiculous to say that what we're talking about is you own the contact information as long as those people agree to receive messages from you. You own the funnel is what it is. Owned audiences own funnel. If you don't own the actual distribution funnel to get in contact with them. If that tech layer stopped existing, then you don't own anything. The tech layer owns it. Yeah, I think a lot of it comes down to just contact information. Like when someone follows you on Twitter or sub-stack notes or whatever, you don't have the follower graph. But when someone subscribes your email, you have the email address or the SMS list, you have the phone number. And the RSS feed for podcasts kind of works in a somewhat similar way. So that's what really an owned audience says. Yeah, those Gmail still a platform, which will change. But it's very different than the discovery platform is like social in YouTube. But Colby, just to wrap us up on this topic and you final thoughts on it. No, I mean, I'm in agreement. I think it was probably just a poor poorly worded tweet. And who knows who even wrote it? And I think his little tone death certainly, and it's gotten a lot of reaction. And maybe that was the purpose of it. But I like Daniel, I like your point about that distribution layer. And if you're going to have an audience, distribution is part of the game. And so you have to pick a platform. And if you're thinking about starting one or like what platform should I choose, I think I'd certainly choose the most durable, which is an email, which is probably it is the most direct. And these other platforms are still valid ways to build and grow an audience. But you don't have as much control as you do with email. Yeah, I think I don't know. I'm curious how sub stack I haven't I haven't caught up on the latest dialogue. I know I saw Tyler's response, which was which was strong. And I like that response. And I'm curious how they react to that. But yeah, I don't know what sub stack was thinking. I think they they just want to get people on notes and see an opportunity there. The reality is like people on sub stack, the writers there, they love email. They understand most of them understand the power of email. They're just more of like artists types who haven't really understood its full capability or importance. And yeah, borrow a lot of audience from sub stack, which actually may or may not lead to any significant revenue. I don't I think we've covered it well. We're almost at time, Daniel. Do you want to tell us about the new podcast you're doing? And also, we can kind of tell people where to find that podcast because I think it's relevant to a lot of the listeners here. Money wise. Yeah. I mean, you I think that's the main one now. I don't know if you're still doing the other one. You can tell us that story quickly. It's on a bit of a hiatus. It'll probably go under slight rebrand. But you can find me two dots in tech is my own podcast and then I host money wise by Hampton, which is just money wise on all audio platforms and then on YouTube. So I mean, it's it's fun. I'll speak more to money wise, but we interview rich people about the life that they live and kind of what happens to them and how they look and feel and think about money after having made it in many cases. So, you know, eight, nine, 10 figure exits and the philosophy of what life is like and how they think about spending money, their personal spending habits, where their money is invested or not invested, how much is liquid versus all up and private assets or, you know, illiquid assets rather. It's fun. It's it's very fun. It's cool to talk to very interesting people. You know, I just talked to someone who sold his company for $100 million and 70 million of that was distributed in cash, you know, 55 give or take up front. So like life changing amount of money and, you know, how they think about life once that exit opportunity has happened is very different than, you know, the three of us think about life. And so I think the audience is I'm sure probably half divided. It's half people who can resonate with that. Like, yeah, I sold my company for nine, 10 figures as well. Like, that's that's totally awesome idea for how I should spend on money. And then the other half, let's call it are people like aspiring founders aspiring wealthy people, people who maybe have made it step one, but are looking at like what comes, what comes after this? You know, maybe I've made my first million, but like they've made a lot more than that. Like what's what levels exist to the game. And then hearing kind of those insights, there's a lot of nuggets that you can take away and, you know, different valuable lessons on building and wealth. We're almost at time. So I just want to get your question. I want to ask Daniel. I want to ask you three kind of final-ish questions. And you only have to answer two. So one is how do you get the job to be the host? Number two is how much money do you make for money wise? And number three is how does money wise make money in? Are you going to help the owner of money wise, you know, grow to make more money from the podcast? Yeah, I'll answer them in reverse because it's how my brain works. It will be a top 10 podcast, and it's up to me to make sure that happens. And I mean a top 10 podcast, not just for finance, podcast charts, it'll be top 10. I make a good money from money wise. I won't tell you how much, but it's it's enough and I'm happy with it. How do they come to be? Long story. I've communicated back and forth with Sam Parr who owns Hampton and by proxy money wise as well. He's the original host there. Just talked to him back and forth on Twitter for the last few years, ultimately met him officially two years ago. And from there, I just asked him to be on my podcast, which was Cheetah's attack. So he's been a guest of my own personal podcast and our relationship got a little bit more friendly at that point because now I'm talking to him, interviewing him, getting to know him beyond just like a handshake and adapt. And then you know, I asked him for advice a few months ago on my podcast. I had a co-host for the first 16 months of my podcast and amicably no, you know, water into the bridge, no hurt feelings, but the co-host decided he didn't want to do it anymore. And so it's my podcast now, which is partly why we're on a hiatus. I asked Sam, I was like, hey, what do I do here? Do I dissolve it? Do I keep going? He said, well, how much money has it made? I said it made about $75,000 last year. He said, how much time did he spend on it per week? I was like, well, an hour, you know, I had to build it. It was a lot more for the first three months, but it was about an hour a week. And he's like, sounds like you should keep doing it. I was like, that was a lot simpler coming out of your mouth than the, you know, chaos of my head the last few months. But then he said, why don't you just host money wise for me? I was like, yeah, that'd be fun. And I just kind of like brushed it off. And he said, no, I'm serious. So then started the conversation. I didn't even know when I asked him about my podcast that money wise was, you know, this thing that he was trying to figure out. And so just kind of, you know, perfect opportunity, right time, right place. I already had the rapport had already interviewed him. One thing led to another and now on the host. Daniel, where can people find you or money wise or anything else you want to promote that we can put in the description below? You can find me on Twitter or X at Daniel C Burke. Find me on LinkedIn, where I'm equally chaotic, but a little bit different. That's Daniel Burke, B-E-R-K. Find money wise everywhere you listen to podcasts. That's about it. Find two dads in tech. It'll be revived sometime this year. But, you know, maybe a little bit too early for you to drive traffic there. But those are the four main places. Also, use B-Hive if you have a newsletter. Had to plug it. Have to. Thanks, Ben. Awesome. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, Daniel.