The Trolley Problem

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So make yourself comfortable, grab a cup of tea, and join us for the ninth degree. Hello. Hello, hello. Welcome back. How are you? Yeah, I'm all right. You know what it's like. Yeah. Or have you been up to you since last week? Well, I've just been entertaining Ben with some music, because he always gets, he still loves musical theatre. And he always gets these ideas in his head that he wants to write a musical, but he doesn't know how to write music. So. Right. Like, to require them, I think. It is, yeah. So he has the ideas and then he always says to me, "Oh, Steve, and you need to write the music." But the problem is, if I'm not particularly inspired, it's quite hard to come up with something. And so then he's like, "Oh, you know, I'll just do it myself." You know, and he's just sitting there sort of plinking and plodding on the keyboard, just, you know, making noise. Yeah. Just like. He can be the Elton John to your whatever the guy is that does the music. Or is it the way around? He can say the way around, isn't it? Say the way around. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah. What is his name? Because it's going to annoy me. I want to say Bertie something, but I don't know if that's. Bernie. Elton John's name. Isn't it Bernie? No, Elton John's Reds Dwight. Reds, yeah. Um. It's some weird name. Bernie Torpin. That's it. I did know that, but I couldn't. I would never have been able to pull it out of me. No, same. That would frustrate me to pop quiz. But yes, not the first time I've been compared to Elton John. What about you? How are you? I'm good. I'm good. Went to the third last night to see everybody's talk about Jamie, which was really fun. They were very good. Good. So had a great time. And is everybody talking about it? Um, this seemed to me. Yeah. Good. I would got curious since then at the dog and night time next weekend. Next week, sorry. Okay. So yeah, it's having a few weeks of theatre things. Enjoy. I guess we should reveal last week's hair. Was you, I believe, with? It was. Cold comfort. Cold comfort, yes. So as far as the rest of the world is concerned, all the people who got on the train get off it. Yep. Which is all well and good. But, you know, it's cold comfort for the people who are dead on the floor of the train. Probably one of the more obvious ones. But, um. We have to save some of the easier ones for us later on. Yeah. So with those ones like that, they're just basic phrases that you would say in conversation. I just sort of hope that people forget that that's actually a title of an episode. Yeah. And just don't think, give it in the moment. Keep an ear out this week. Whilst we discuss series 9, episode 2, the trolley problem. And I just realised last night that I should have been warning people that we'll be plenty of spoilers. So, please don't carry on listening if you haven't already watched the episode. I feel like we stopped doing the spoiler thing. Yeah, I can't imagine. I mean, I think to be honest, if anyone decides to listen to a podcast review of an episode that they haven't watched, that's on them. It probably. Problems. Yeah. But yes, should go without saying. But if you haven't watched the episode, please don't. Listen to this. Yeah. Not please don't watch the episode. Please don't listen to this. Go watch the episode and come back. Hmm. Where you will already know that Blake saves a man from leaping to his death from a bridge. The poor guy probably just needs someone to talk to. But he's a good idea to bring him back home. Trolley problem. Hmm. Thoughts. I hope I'm not going to upset people. Uh-oh. But I'm not really a big fan. Oh. How come? My first note says. If you asked an AI generator to write an episode of "Inside Number 9", Yeah. This is what it might spiel out. That's a good point to me. To me. It's like, I feel like, you know, it's okay. But it's like, we're on Series 9 now. And I feel like this is something that we've seen a lot of times before. Yeah. There's nothing that we haven't seen before. That's a good day out. It's a very strong point. It's like a lot of their tropes. They've used quite a few times now. Just, you know, another one of those. Another revenge plot for someone's daughter who was wronged by someone. Yeah. You know. Yeah, we're all seems like it's random chance. And it wasn't at all. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I don't want to be. I'm not going to hopefully be too harsh, but that is my overall kind of fear at the moment. Yeah. I feel like if you watched this episode in isolation, having never watched it before, the series, I mean. That's true. I was thinking that because the anthology thing you can watch in and you order. Yeah. But at the same time, you know, most people will watch them in order and they will broadcast in a certain order, say, you know. Yeah. I think it's fun, though. Although not particularly funny. No, no. As episodes go, there isn't much comedy in it at all, really. The odd line here and there, a bit at the beginning, but. Yeah, yeah. I don't mind that necessarily. They don't all have to be raucously funny. No, no. But I did particularly obviously riddle of the Sphinx and misdirection being too that I thought of as quite similar. In the way that there's a particular field and it's like a deconstruction of that field. Yes. In this case, therapy, which is just like a thing they like to do every now and again. Yeah. I just have a very small sort of two-hand or almost and just sort of take something apart. It's like, we did some research on this particular professional. Yeah. We're going to tell you everything we know about it. And then we'll throw in a wronged relative and some revenge, cook for 30 minutes, screen. Bon appétit. Having said that though, I do love this very theatrical setup that they do. You know, it's so like a play. Like it's just, we don't need to see him rescuing him on the bridge and all that. You just start in the house with them coming in and it's just all about the dialogue and the performances, you know. Yeah. They do do that well. Yeah, it's a nice little play setting. I think I thought it was going to go because the first shots you see are dripping water and the cattle being turned on. And I'm like, someone's getting electrocuted here. Oh. Was, I think, how I thought it was going to go. So they'd love to set stuff up. But then maybe that was intentional as a red herring. Yeah, possibly. Or I've just entirely read into a thing that doesn't exist. Yeah. So I wanted to point out that this is, I mean, in terms of on-screen cast. This is the smallest cast in the whole show. Yeah. There are technically ones like Riddle of the Sphinx and Bernie Clifton that have fewer credited performers. Yes. But then, you know, like Alexander Roach is a huge presence in that episode. Yeah. Whereas in this, you've just got those like two recorded voiceovers. Yes. So this really is like the purest two-hand up between recent seed that we've ever had, really. Yeah. You can't really get any smaller with the physical presence, yeah. I wonder if they were thinking that when they were writing the last series being like, we'll do a big group one. Then we'll do one that's just us. And then we'll do like, and you know, have all the different dynamics that they could have. Hmm. I was imagining so. Hmm. It's nice to see, I want to, oh, is it Squires? I want to, not Squires, no, he's. Oh, I know who you're thinking of. Simon says, Guy. Spencer McGuire. Spencer McGuire, McGuire, that's it. It's nice to see McGuire's wig got another airing. Yeah, it is similar, isn't it? Although I was, I was going to say the wigs are actually, I think, a huge improvement in this series. They are. I think they are. Yes, they've been listening to us back in the past. And. Spencer's, not Spencer, what's he actually called? Blake, sorry, in this one. Yeah, the hairline, it's always the hairline. And they always seem to like to have a really sharply pulled back. Hairline, where you can see it. And I don't know why they always set themselves up that way. Because it makes it so much harder. And people do have fringes or have, like, swept forward or whatever. Yeah, but now I was thinking, I was thinking, well, they've, you know, they've come on actually quite well. Now, we're going to call Reese's character Drew, even though I think that's probably a fake name. I assume it is. But that's what he's credited as. So, that's what we'll go with for now. When I remember it otherwise, that'd be Reese. Well, yeah. It's easy just to say Reese and Steve, isn't it? Yeah, it really is. That doesn't really go in the spirit of the story they're trying to tell. So, I like them at Cambridge joke. Yeah, is that a real thing? I googled and no, it's not. Okay, I meant to you and then I forgot. But it's the sort of thing that sounds like it would be. Yeah, why not? Because it is, because obviously whoever's set it up has done so, because it could be easily mistaken for Cambridge University. So, it's just, it's just, and the fact that he's got that frame that just cuts it off. It cuts it off. Yeah, it perfectly set up for that, like, whoever founded this university. Well, you can just, you can just sort of hold your hand over that bit when you're, when you're showing your diploma to someone. No. And then try and brag that you're actually only good at your subject, because we can't teach you. Yeah, it starts very strangely. Obviously, we've got a lot to catch up on in terms of what's going on in this world, and we've got to figure out what's happened. I love and hate those sorts of things. I'm, it's always intriguing to try and work out what's happened. But also, I get annoyed that I don't know. I can don't like when it starts in the middle of a thing. - I know what you mean, yeah. - I know it's a good shorthand, especially when you only got 25 minutes, as a way to grip you straight away. - It's funny though with these things, like I always find in scenes in TV and stuff when people, they come into the house and they start having this conversation. And I think some of the stuff, what were they talking about just before they got in through the door or in the car, like, you know? - I'm sure I remember that was the thing in the Simpsons once, where they got a letter or something. And you see them park up and get in and home as like, you'd think we'd have opened this letter and the car was all about it. - Yes, yes, yes, yes, I remember that, yeah. (laughing) - Oh, whatever it was, yeah. - It's such a funny trope, isn't it? (laughing) Or like, you know, they get back in and shut the front door and they're like, well, that interview was a disaster. - Yeah. (laughing) You could have talked about that before now, but yeah. - Yeah. - Anyway. - Well, say that Drew was really struggling in like, he was just there shaking in the chair or whatever. - He hasn't been able to have any conversation. - And Blake's been given him a moment to think, I don't know. - Yeah, yeah. Something I caught on a second watch, when Blake says, I'm not a big fan of games when they talk about Monopoly and Drew says, I am. - Yeah. - It's like, oh, he's playing games with him. - He is. - I'm not a little lads again, as always. I don't know why Steve stopped when no one else did. - Oh, I see. - Sorry, why Blake stopped? - Why he stopped on the bridge. - Yeah, why he actually did help? - Because I guess because he likes to think he's a good person and he's, and also he says later about how a desperate man with nothing to live for, I thought I would get your attention or something, like it's something inside himself. - Drew, yeah, but Drew had a bit of a pissed-off if he's too fast. - Well, I know, yeah, it's one of those-- - Or if anyone else had helped. - Exactly, yeah. It's one of those where it relies on things to go exactly the way you want them to. - Yeah. - Or maybe he's been on that bridge for the last week and a half. - Yeah, and then somebody else comes up to help and he goes, "Fuck off." (laughing) - Shrub them in the river. - My potato gun here. - Yeah, yeah. - I'm waiting for this, this one, whatever, to drive pastly. - Yes. Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? It's kind of a bleak, very bleak episode. Like it's just moody and dark and the rain and the thunder lining outside. - Yeah, having grown up in the countryside, I can confirm it's miserable most of the time. (laughing) - If you do go mad in the countryside, as they say. - No. - One bit I like is when they're talking about the different therapies and things and they talk about laughter yoga. And it's just the juxtaposition of that, you know, when he's doing all that, "Oh, yeah, yeah!" With all, you know, and it's so grim, the whole setting is so grim. - Yeah. - He's just doing that. And it reminded me of the Mary Poppins when they're floating on the ceiling. - Oh, yeah. (laughing) - Don't call what's it, yeah. - Yeah. - The risk shows how unhinged he is in this bit though. Like that laugh is terrifying. - Yeah, he can't, once he started, he can't stop. And then it just gets desperate and turns into sobs. - Yeah. - Yeah, that's really good. I don't think that was good. - It's scary me now, Rees, please stop. (laughing) - It's quite like, I feel like we can all relate to it. In some ways, like we're all kind around a lot that I think we're scared to look at sometimes. (laughing) Not to get too dark, but, you know. - Let's not pull at that thread. (laughing) The whole jumper of sanity will unravel. - I know, yeah. (laughing) But yeah, it's like deep performances like that. They captivate us for a reason. And yeah, I think it was very, very good from Rees. - Yeah, that's been very strange to film that little bit with the laughing. - Yeah. - Especially for Steve. - Steve is so funny there when he goes like, "Oh, hee hee hee!" (laughing) - I saw someone online, you might have seen it as well. They said that they're like two-year-old or something who didn't understand what was going on the episode, but was in the room and started laughing along like that because laughter was just contagious. - Yeah. (laughing) - It's quite sweet. (laughing) - Little did they know. (laughing) - So, turns out he has a gun. - Mm. - I didn't know what I would've done with that point. I think I probably would've grabbed it 'cause you could've done right then. - I guess. - That would've been a really easy opportunity to grab it. - That yeah, it's just terrifying, isn't it? I don't know what I would've done. Yeah, I think I would've just frozen. - Yeah. I'd probably put my hand on his back and one hand on it and said, "I know you've got a gun here, I'm gonna take it off you." - Mm, yeah. It's just people can be so unpredictable like that. - Mm-hmm. - He's in your house now. - Yeah. Yes, scary situation. Drew also thinks he might've killed somebody. - Yeah. - Which makes it scarier. - Mm-hmm. Blake, at this point being, oh God, what the hell about that stuff in front of him quite now? - I know, yeah. - But in all seriousness, like, you know, he mentions the bystander effect. - Mm-hmm. - And also thinking about the last week, boot or goose and people not wanting to sort of get involved. - Yeah. - There's a reason why we kind of don't want to get involved because you never know what you're letting yourself in for. Once you accept the problem, yeah, you have to follow it through. - Yeah. You know, this is a scary world and there are some scary things in it. And I don't think people can be blamed for not wanting to be part of it necessarily. - Especially, like you say, bystanders, there's lots of people around. Why is it for me to deal with it? - Yeah. That's why we live in a society where there are structures in place, supposedly. - Supposedly. - I mean, it doesn't always work out like that, but, I mean, you could be a hero, but you're sometimes maybe getting involved and doing it the wrong way if you're not trained or whatever might make things worse and make him jump off quicker. - Yeah. - So, you know, who knows? - Do you have love even thinking about jumping? - No, until he's taught to you, yeah. (laughing) - Driven him to it. - So Drew goes to the bathroom. - Mm-hmm. - And they both have their little secret moment. - Yeah, that just decided to drug each other. - Yeah. It's good. This interesting, though, how obviously Blake isn't trying to knock him out. He's just trying to sort of make him sedated enough so that he's not a threat. - Yeah. - Whereas obviously Drew is actually trying to knock him out. - Yeah. And what you do is they just both drug them in the same way and they both just fell asleep and then woke up about two in the next morning. (laughing) The next afternoon, who knows? - Oh, nice rest. (laughing) - End of episode credits roll. - Yeah. Meanwhile, Robbie is just suffocated. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Spoilers. (laughing) - Speaking of Robbie, we get at the first mention of him that he's doing art a level and he drew a picture of some trainers that's in the bathroom. - Nicely seated. - Yes. (laughing) - Whenever a parrot to get mentioned like that, I'm always like, well, you're gonna be incredibly important in about 15 minutes time, aren't you? - Hmm. (laughing) - 'Cause you don't have time to mention things that aren't relevant. (laughing) - Not really. Unless it's some random fact, like the boot getting replaced by a penguin. - In monopoly. Just 'cause Steve Orris learned that last week and thought it was really interesting to put in. - Yeah, it's funny how characters of these things always seem to have this kind of insight to be acknowledged of things. (laughing) - Hey, one has a fun fact. I'll shoehorn into a conversation. - So Blake invites him to do some drawing. 'Cause he used to apparently like that when he was a kid. - Yeah, it seems a little bit shoehorned. - It is a little bit of a leap, isn't it? Is that why don't you do some drawing? - I suppose, you know, therapy, like. - I guess. - It's quite therapeutic drawing. - I guess he's gonna try and take his mind off it so he can talk to him and he'll answer a bit more directly, maybe if he's not thinking about it. - Yes. - But he has just taken someone that he thinks might be dangerous and given them a load of sharp influence. (laughing) - That's a very good point. (laughing) But yeah, that bit when he says about, never asked your name, just as he's grabbing a pencil. Drew. (laughing) (laughing) Like George Glass. (laughing) - Hi, I'm Crayola. (laughing) Deep red. (laughing) What is this story as well? 'Cause I was going to read the subtitles to make out what he's actually saying. - The story that he's telling. - Yeah, it's about him. - Taking someone to view a flat that was tiny. - Yeah. - That doesn't seem to go anywhere. - No, I didn't think that was relevant at all. I think that was just-- - I don't think it was. - Just waffle. - But I was wondering if it would become, or if I could somehow shoehorn it into relevance. (laughing) - But no, I don't think so. - I don't think so. So yeah, so Blake passes out. - And wakes up. Cable's tired to the oven as we all have at some point. (laughing) Throwing my out. (laughing) At which point, surely he's got what the fuck have I done here? - Well, yeah. Act two begins and suddenly there's a huge shift. - Yep. - And the tables completely turn. - Yes. - And this is, again, riddle of the syncs, like the power dynamic, the way it shifted constantly between squires and Nina. - Mm-hmm. - Very much the same sort of thing. Like, you know, they keep alternating, who's got the upper hand? - Yeah, and you don't know who's in the right or who you should be like rooting for. Who's the moral choice? Like, but at this point, yeah, we think Reese is the bad guy. - Yes. - And then he starts to tell his story. - Yes, it turns out he was waiting for him specifically on that bridge. - Yeah, no, no idea, no plan to jump. - No. Well, I said about the deconstruction of the fields, but that, you know, that line where he's like, "Oh, thank you very much, Blake, "using my first name to establish trust." - Yeah. (laughing) - He's been also researching. - Yes, exactly, yeah. It's funny, therapy, 'cause, like, as a topic, because a lot of people are deeply suspicious of therapy. - Mm-hmm. - And they sort of feel like they're gonna get found out if they go to it or something. - Yeah. And also, you know, take, take. a piss and say you know it's it's letter rubbish and they seem to be this idea that therapists use tricks to try and you know try and achieve an outcome. Yeah I feel like it's better these days but definitely in the past there's been a huge thing of that. I'd like to hope so. It's just something to people say that oh bit if someone going to therapy is like a weakness or something. Yeah and that is shifting. That is shifting. I don't know if you friends that have been said how great it was. Yeah it very much depends on the person there. I've had different experiences with different therapists and one was incredible and one was so bad I had to complain about her. Talk to your other therapist about the first therapist. Yes exactly. Yes anyway I won't go into that but I just think it's it's it's it you know it's I know I said I wasn't a huge fan of the episode but it's an interesting setup for an episode. Something to explore. Yeah yeah yeah just like you say the fact that it's already kind of been done in various ways takes away a little bit from it. Does you know about the some detest with the pictures? I don't think I did. No. I struggle to remember in these things whether I learned it from here or I already knew it because it was a while ago. Yes. I don't think I did. Which one scares you most? I couldn't see that clearly enough to know but I find it interesting these things when it's like like he says it's been discredited for decades but it's just a talking point which is it's still used it's a bit like we were saying about in last weekend with the stages of grief like it's not necessarily clinically a thing but it's still a useful pattern to as a talking point as a springboard. Yeah. I think any of them are that scary to be honest? No. One is probably the creepiest although four is the one that looks like she would probably murder children. I'm having a look now. Like she runs a sort of she's a Mrs. Love It situation I think number four. Oh yeah she is like a lovely scary yeah. Who would I least like to run into on a dark alley? I don't think most of them look that bad really. No they look quite normal don't they? Two is a bit deranged looking. Yeah. One looks a bit like I think he was in like he was some sort of Nazi doctor. They all look a bit dead behind the eyes but maybe that's just the age of the photo when they were from. Yeah. Interesting. Don't know what that tells you about us viewers but yeah. No well someone's that way you will. Yeah someone can tell us. Yeah. And then we come to the namesake of the episode. Yes. The trolley problem and of course they have to spell it out so that everyone watching understands what it is. For the four viewers that are watching that I haven't heard of it before. Yeah. I do think it's one of the most well-known. Yeah. Yeah definitely. Morality sort of philosophical questions. I know then obviously I have to ask you what is the correct option? Well the whole point is that there isn't a correct option as long as it's it's the whole point is there it's a dilemma so. Yes. There is no correct option because I can understand both sides. If you force me to choose I think I would say that taking the action that causes the best outcome is probably better. Right. Does that surprise you? I don't know. I think that is the option that you feel like you would be expected to do. Yeah. But you could I feel that's the harder choice to make in a way. But yeah if you're actually there and the person not the single person on the track is looking you in the eye can you flick the switch? Knowing they're about to condemn them to death. Almost I think that would be easier if they were looking at me. If it's just someone that's just stood on the track just minding their own business don't know what's happening. Whereas if they've seen me they've they can see that there's some sort of I'm doing this for a reason. True. Whereas that's the reason why I would struggle to intervene because I'm going well if I weren't here that person would have lived. It's like you're playing God. Yeah. If I were five seconds later to this that person would be fine. Nothing like nothing ever was bad was going to happen to them and because of my presence that person now died. Yes. But the fact is you you were present and so yeah you know that is the situation you can't say what if. Yeah. Yeah. Why are people playing on train tracks? That's the main question. Well yes quite. That's the lesson children. Yeah. Haven't your children heard of real safety? Twitch you. Twitch you. Yes exactly. You see in the little kid that was like presented it like I think it was like a tick-tock thing of some parent trying to see what the child would do and the child just like swings the train to the side and takes them both out. And that child grew up to be a mass murderer. Yes. Speaking of which that I like when he says it depends on the people you've got. If you've got Shakespeare Einstein, Gandhi, Galileo and Mary Berry versus Hitler, Genghis Khan and Greg Wallace. How did he pick Greg Wallace? Do you reckon it's a they know Greg Wallace and they'll know he can see as a as a joke? Oh they just genuinely hate Greg Wallace. I assumed it was the latter because there's not everyone hate Greg Wallace. I think so. He's just renowned as a no, isn't he? Yes. Yeah. I wouldn't necessarily put him in the same bracket as Hitler. No. But maybe Genghis Khan. Barrowy Biscuit Bice. I think it was a tick-tock compilation I saw from him doing his round the factories tools with him in his hand. And it's just someone pointed out that the whole program is basically just people saying numbers to him and the him repeating them in a surprised voice. Like, oh, you know, it takes 10 hours to do this. 10 hours. That's the entire program. And it's like he's surprised by literally everything. I don't know how he gets through life. I'm so excited when they let him press a button. And he's just there fucking up someone's factory for a day. Yeah. Imagine working in factory and you hear, oh, they're coming to film that Greg Wallace coming on. I'm on holiday today. Yeah. The entire office is ill. Yeah. But now we've got what's his face instead. Paddy McGinnis. Apparently it's just walking into factories with a BBC filming crew makes you an idiot. Oh. Because now he's a moron and he just walks around being surprised by buttons. I've not seen this version, but I don't find him a bit irritating anyway, so yeah, I can imagine it's probably the same. My favourite is still a little odd lady that looks like she like weaves her own clothes and has her own kiln and talks about the past. She's great. What on that program on the factory? I'm okay. I've only seen bits and bobs. It's a little odd lady. Okay. She's great. Anyway, that was a big tangent. It was. We need things to talk about on this one. So he introduces the option of what if you jumped in the way and you could save people. And I never thought of the concept of dilemma being a binary thing. Oh, yeah. And he's try lemma remain upward. Oh, is that a real thing? I never even thought of that. Okay, yeah, you've not considered it. I purposely not said that. I have to drink for that one. No, I had not heard the word try lemma, but words are made up aren't they? So why not? Yeah, words made up don't mean anything. Yeah, but that's the classic thing, isn't it? The difference between a problem and a dilemma is that the dilemma is when you've got two clear options and you can't decide which one to go between. Yeah, I guess so. It just never really crossed my mind that it had to be two. Yeah, well, people use it loosely, don't they? Yeah. But I think that's traditionally what it should mean. Yeah, that makes sense. Hmm. Why is it not a dilemma? It's different between Greek and Latin. Oh, is it? Right. So much of it goes back to Latin and Greek and stuff, doesn't it? Yeah. Just looked at dilemma means double proposition apparently. Oh, there you go. From Greek. Or if you need to phone up your friend called Emma or the Italian version of that murder mystery play dilemma for murder. That was torturous. I know tortured pun. We love it or I do anyway. So yes, I wrote down a great bit here from Reese where he's, you know, having to go at why this man has decided to become a therapist. And he's like, oh, boohoo, my kids have all grown up. What am I going to do with the rest of my life? I know. I'll enroll at McDonald's University. Do a sack of therapy course. Print my own diploma from home. It's a brilliant take down. Oh, fuck yeah. That is what I do, isn't it? Yeah. But he's like, Cambridge Online is a well-respected educational hub. Yeah, yeah. Did you and the other graduates that have printers? I feel like Drew's only really angry because Blake's got a strong enough Wi-Fi connection to access the, yeah, Cambridge website. Yes. Yeah, you can't do Zoom. No. So then we get brought up Ellie Dawson. Yes. Who was a former patient? Yep. It's always a former patient. The second you have a psychiatrist involved. Yeah. Something will have happened with a former patient. I wonder if he's going like, oh god, which patient is he on about? How many patients has he fucked up? Oh, did you need the word up there. But yeah, I think because he pretends for a bit that he's not sure who Eddie Dawson is, but I'm sure he knows immediately when he hears the name. Oh, yeah, definitely. And he puts him through the torture of listening to the recordings, which is so uncomfortable. Yeah. And it also gives me flashbacks to cold comfort. I'm just there hearing Reese do that. I hit me mom. I especially hit my snap dad. Yes. I've thought of that, but yeah. But yeah, it's so I'm watching his face when he's listening to it back and it's like, obviously there's a young woman here who's clearly struggling. Yeah. And then Blake's obviously taking advantage. And he knows what's coming up next. Yes, he's like, please turn it off. And the fact that even before he's played it, he's been like, oh, that was recorded about my consent. It's invasion of privacy or whatever he says. Like already trying to get ahead of the court case. Yes, exactly. And he says, now he uses the phrase here, which I was looking at timelines of when this was made and wondering if it was deliberate, not when he says about how it was unethical but it wasn't illegal. Yes. And then that coupled with the grey wig, I was like, is that a reference to Philip's go field? Oh, it could be because that was the year before that happened. Was that 23? I was looking out to see if it would work. That's crazy. That's that long ago. And like, because he used almost that exact phrase. I think he said it was unwise, but not illegal. Yeah. Oh, and it's like it felt like quite a deliberate. I thought it was, you know, probably. And that's when they dusted off the old wig. And I'm sure it's got a white wig here somewhere. Yeah. So yeah, I thought it was interesting. Hmm. So yeah, we get a pretty horrible message here. So ultimately, Drew's uncovered that Blake was inappropriate with his client to do this conversation we work out was Drew's daughter, Ellie. Yeah. What a shock. What a shock indeed. And she's dead. And she's dead. Which Blake claims not to know. Well, yes. So why at this point, you even claiming any of this? He claims it for about two seconds, doesn't it? We've got a witness. Who was it? So also, apparently, he claims that she became obsessed with him and he had to take out restraining order. Yeah. Just assumed he got bored, moved on to the next. Yeah. Patient. So there's this big thing about how he there's evidence that he visited her in a hotel room. Yeah. On the night that she overdosed. Yeah. And he did nothing when he could have notified someone and saved her. Yeah. And he didn't. And I wasn't sure. I wasn't really sure why. But is it because he was breaking his own restraining order? Was that why he wouldn't identify someone or? I guess so. Or was it because he didn't care that she died or what was it? Well, I guess there's a bit of both. Like he doesn't break his restraining order and she has a problem goes away. Yeah. No one knows about it. But is that how restraining orders work? If you if you take a person A takes one out on person B person B can't come near them. Obviously, but if person A chooses to, could they not go near them? Or is that is it? I don't know. Two way thing. I don't know. Brief haurs for googling. Yes. Because that's what I'm not sure about would Blake be in trouble for breaking it or do restraining and the sixth option is orders go both ways. Oh, no. No. There are one way orders where only one person, the defendant or restraint person is legally restricted from contact and approaching the other protected person. Yeah. That's what I'd assumed. So yeah, I didn't know unless it's specifically stated as a bilateral request. All right. Maybe it was then. As in both of them are taken out of a restraining order against each other. Oh, I see. Well, no, she wouldn't have done that. But she. Yeah. So that wouldn't make any sense. I don't imagine that would happen very often. No. No, because it negates the need for it. You just avoid each other. Don't need to make it legal. Then just catching someone out by happening to bump into the mutesco. Yeah. I wonder what the rules are on restraining orders. Like what if you do happen to run into them in the male car of Tesco? Well, I sure. One of you has to run away into the car park. Yeah. I think probably the answer is you just don't speak to them and you move away as soon as you reasonably can. If you ran into them in the male car and Tesco and then we're like, oh, my God. I love you and all that over there. And then that's one thing. But if you just kind of politely ignore them, then I suppose that's acceptable. Yeah. You don't ask them to pass you milk. Yes. I'm not. Yeah. I'm not experiencing these things. No, me neither. Well, I was going to say this, actually. People on Twitter who are rather intense about Reese Shearsmear. After our last weekend episode, somebody said, oh, Stephen's one of us now, because I said Reese is attractive in that episode. Apparently now that means I'm one of us, one of us. No, I don't think so. I take issue with that. Yeah. So I was a bit confused why he visited her and then did nothing. Yeah. I imagine it's that you just thought the problem will go away. Like she's taking these pills. Oh, I see. Yeah. Now, no one knows as far as he was aware at this point, like this loose thread will resolve itself here. I suppose if he contacts the police or an ambulance or whatever, it sort of, it becomes a thing. It re-ignites it all. Yeah. And why is he now visiting this young one? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. He wants to keep his name out of things. Yeah. There's going to be a police investigation if someone's tried to commit suicide and someone's been involved. Yeah. I can understand. For all they know, she's been drugged or whatever. I don't think it ends well for him if he tries to help, actually. Not that it's right that he didn't. No, no, no. It reminds me of, there's a bit of a spoiler, but it's like a show that's 20 years old, so I don't think it matters. Okay. Skip ahead, X number of minutes. Yeah. If you don't want to be spoiled first, I think it's season one or maybe two of desperate housewives. All right. Yeah. To avoid spoilers for desperate housewives, skip forward 30 seconds now. George, the pharmacist, is like threatening to kill himself to get Bree's attention or whatever. Yeah. And she knows exactly what he's doing and he's assuming that she'll call an ambulance for him and she just doesn't. Yeah. And the sits and watches the dark. Yeah. Bree was a fascinating character. Oh, yeah. Brilliant character. I was good when I went on my tour of Universal that the Wistery Lane set was close to filming. Oh, was it? Yeah. It was a close set. So there's no chance. That's a shame. See like from the end of it, but that's yeah. Yeah. It was one of the ones I wanted to see the most, but hey, these things happen. There's a life set. So what you're going to do? So Drew wants a confession written down. Yep. But that's not going to happen. No, I don't think it's up for confessing really. No. Especially when he realizes that all he's got is a spread gun. Yeah. A very realistic one. Yeah. I don't think I've ever heard of them. I had to Google because it is literally what it sounds like. Yeah. And I looked it up and apparently they're not even legal in this country. Oh, they're not. Okay. No, maybe they're used to be, or something. No, they're because anything that fires something at a certain speed is deemed a weapon is illegal. Yeah. There'll be one of those things that was everywhere in the 70s, and then X number of children a year lost an eye. Yes. Back in the good old days. Yeah. No one was ever injured, but yeah, Uncle So-and-So lost the leg. Doesn't sound very hygienic. No, I think you sort of just jab it on a potato and a bit of it breaks off in the barrel when you shoot it. But I've got visions of children like shooting potato everywhere and then you're going behind the sofa and then like, you know, months later, you've got moldy bits of potato that have been shot. Yeah. Or like tendrils of all the roots climbing out over the top of the top of the sofa, like they're doing the draw when you forget about them. So yes, he overpowers him by stabbing him with the pen. Yes. Which is horrible. I did think it was a bit weird of Drew because I got that he'd he'd obviously cable tied the wrong hand so he couldn't write. But why unless he'd only brought one cable tie with him, that why he wouldn't cable tie the other hand first. Yeah. And then on cut the first one. That's a good point. But yeah, overpowers him because the plot needs him too. Yes. I hate the pen in the leg. I'm very squeamish about all that sort of thing. Yeah. And it just makes me feel funny. Well, you're a good quality pen. Yes. A Parker. He's doing well for himself as Blake. Yes. And then I've learnt from many medical documentaries. You're not meant to pull the foreign object out of yourself. No, you're not. No, you're not. No. So he should have hobbled round with that. So yeah, viewers don't, if you get stabbed by pens by angry psychiatrists, don't pull them out. Yeah. So this is where Blake goes out to the car thinking he's going to phone the police. And then he's like, Oh, shit, I can't do that. Yeah, I didn't know if he was going to phone the police or whether he was going to just rotten like a sensible person would do when you've got a crazy person in your house. Oh, true. But he's got, he gets his phone out and then he sort of looks at it and it's like he's thinking, Oh, no, I can't. That's how I read it. Yeah, that too. Yeah. Yeah. So then it's when he decides to take things into his own hands. Yeah. He's just seamlessly transitions into Panto villain. Well, yeah, I didn't think to myself. It's amazing how quickly people jump to murder as the solution in these things. Yeah, we just weren't really sheltered lives. Yeah. If you're only experiencing of the world was this show, he'd be like, "Oh, murder's just, you know, it's just what you do on a Tuesday." I consider it on a mostly daily basis, but I never do it here. So he decides that if he pretends that Drew was a burglar that he had to defend himself against, and it kills him, then he can get away with it. And who wouldn't believe him, random guys broke into his house, knocked over his chest set. I mean, that would drive you to murder. When he sweeps all the pieces off, he's like, "Make it look realistic." Yeah. And then he has an even better idea that he can take him back to the river, because so many people saw him on the bridge, he could just dump him in there, because that would make sense. Yeah. Yeah. It always goes wrong when you involve a second location or in this case, back to the first after the second location. But yeah. It's just very interesting, like they're saying about the power dynamic and how it's like, "One minute, a minute ago, Reese was so heavy up a hand, and now suddenly he's on his knees begging." Yeah. Yeah, it just keeps flipping as well, like we said earlier, who's in the right as well? Well. Who he should be rooting for. Yeah. Well, it's a say. It's like a lot of these stories, isn't it? No one's blameless. No. But, you know, just because someone's done something awful doesn't mean that you should then murder them or kidnap their son or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So it's like the bad thing is done in the past. That can't be changed now. You can just add to it. Yeah. Yeah. Make it worse. Yeah. That whole situation, yeah. But that is, it's human nature in a way. It's as old as time, isn't it? Murder. Everyone wants someone to blame. Yeah. Yeah. See, retribution in some way. Hmm. Yeah. So you drag them outside. Now, I'll never understand this point where he says he's forgotten his coat. I know. I know. So I would like not just go, you don't need a coat, get in the car. Well, I think the idea is that, oh, he needs to be wearing what he was wearing when he was on the bridge and all the people who saw him. I guess. But if he's fallen in the river, surely his coat could have come off in the river and when his body gets dragged out, it's not going to be suspicious that he doesn't have the coat on. Yeah. Is it? I'd have liked to line somewhere, being like, yeah, that was how I was seen and you don't want to leave evidence at your house and. True. Yeah. Just two seconds, just to explain. Two seconds. Hold on. Hold on. I'll get that for you. Would you like a cup of tea while I'm fine? Yes. Do you need to use the toilet before? Yes. Don't wear your coat inside. You won't feel the benefit when you go outside. Yes. You're already wet anyway. No, no. No difference. And it might also want to check the right hand pocket while he's there. Oh, yes. That's creepy, isn't it? Mm. Because you know as soon as he says that you know there's he's got some secret. Some ulterior motive. Trump card. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a mobile number. Just a mobile number. So obviously we just give it a ring, why not? Well, I was thinking that I was thinking like that could be anything. That could be like attached to a bomb or something. Well, do you? True. Yeah, suppose. I don't know why my mind went there, but. In the distance, explosion, sirens. Yeah. Or like Barry did his house somewhere, also, I don't know. Mm. Could be anything, but yeah, give it a call because you've only got about three minutes left at the episode. Yes. And it is poor old Robbie the artist. It is Robbie. Yeah. Stuck in a box. Barry alive. Barry alive. Drew told him his dad would save him. He would tell the truth. Yeah. And Blake realizes he hasn't told the truth. What does that mean? Looks out the window. Drew's covering himself in petrol. Oh my God. Mm. It's quite a horrific ending. Mm. That you said earlier, the episode sort of has didn't done before, but also this ending is so dark that I almost forgive it in a way. Just because I just love this last couple of minutes so much. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's just shocking, isn't it, when he's like, when Blake realizes what's going on. Yeah. And he's begging him. And he won't, he won't tell it. It's made his choice. Yeah. It's flicked the lever. Yeah. The thing that I was to talk me out a bit over half a second when I was watching this earlier was, do you reckon when he was on this bridge earlier and Blake picks him up? He's like, come with me, come with me. And he's like, oh, I'll get in you. I'll just want one second. Yeah. That's a very good point. Where'd he get that from? I assume it's in a bag with him, but-- Yeah. Very convenient. He's just got this giant bag for life with a petrol canister in it, it was on the exhaustion around. But yeah. So he sets fire to himself and he burns himself along with the knowledge of where Robbie is buried. Yeah. In a move directly from Saw 3, pretty much exactly. OK. I wouldn't know. It's the exact same plot for the end of Saw 3. Oh, is it? Spoilers for another thing. Yeah. Well, sort of. Yeah. There's a character that's told, like, follow the rules and everything will be OK. He then kills the person and then they press a recorder that plays this pre-recorded message of, you know, if you listen to this, I'm dead and I'm the only person that knows where your daughter's locked away. Yeah. Yeah, and that's how the film ends. The film is again. Yeah. For if you don't want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was just going to comment on the reflection in the glasses of the flaming body. What do you think about that? I think it's the only way they could get away with showing it. Yeah, I'd almost rather they hadn't shown it at all. I'd rather it had just been flickering on his face, like orange on his face or something. Oh, I quite liked it. Oh, OK. Not going to, like, I make things sound a bit sad, but. No, I think it just looked a bit strange to me, like, just seemed a bit jarring to me. Yeah. I assume it was probably done for real in that there was a person listed as a stunt coordinator. So I imagine they probably did have someone in a fire suit. Oh, I really do it. Yeah. I thought it kind of looks a bit CGI, but what do I know? I don't know. I don't know what else they would have needed a stunt person for, but they were the only other person. No. They were the only other person. No. No. I don't think so. But yes. So the voice actor for Robbie is called Ethan Joseph Robert, and I was just like, I've saw that on the credits. I was just like, that's just three first names. The parents really couldn't choose. Yeah. Throw them all in a hat and we'll pick them out in order. Yeah, exactly. Stick a knife in in somewhere where it feels appropriate. Yeah. I did Google him, and yes, he is hot. Of course he is. He sounds like he would be. But not as hot as, um, Drew. Well, yeah. Sorry, that was terrible. The Reese dance will be coming for you again. Yeah. Well, I didn't mean it like that. Did I? Oh, he's so hot. He's on fire. Smoking. Drop dead gorgeous. That was so camp. You know, we had all that thing before about me being camped. Now, whenever I hear our intro, I can't unhear like one of the first things I say, I'm like, hello, and thanks for joining. And it's so fabulous. Don't you remember, voice? I know. Yeah. Anyway, so what are we rating out of nine? Hmm. I'm trying to be objective of this episode in isolation as an episode, rather than. But then how? With everything else. I don't know. I don't know. You know, the numbers. Yeah. I enjoy it, but it's not exactly one of my favourites anyway. No. I think it's only the last sort of five minutes that I actually, that's really my favourite bit. Do you have a number? I do. I think I'm going in a five. I was going somewhere mid-ally, five or six. Hmm. Yeah, I think five is probably fair looking at other things I've given five to. Yeah. Yeah. I have a feeling that might upset quite a few people. Hmm. And this is probably a strong episode for a lot of people. But yeah. We said what we said. Yeah. And it's still good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anything above a two is still reasonably good. So that just counts out. I'm too obvious through it. And the rest. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at some threes and even like Nana's party. I still have a joy, Nana's party in places. Yeah. My life's cat was still fun in ways. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Hahaha. Yeah. Five says. Yeah. And if you don't like it, make your own podcast. Exactly. We've nearly finished this one. Yeah. Hahaha. Last question. Did you spot the hair? No. No. No. I'd imagine it's somewhere in his clotted room, in his main room. Yeah. I didn't spot it either. My house bit did. He didn't even know the hair existed. He'd watched it before, but not this particular episode. Yeah. You didn't know the hair was a thing, but I told him to look out for it and he did. It's on the right hand side of the window, still. Oh. Sort of in the corner of the room, on the end of the windowsill. Fair enough. It's quite hard to spot. It never really gets a particular close-up shot of it. Hmm. Cool. Well, there we go. We'll tell you next week where our hair was. Yes. I've got a couple of messages to read out. Cool. This one comes from Sarah, who says, "Love listening to you guys on my lunch break doggie walks. I never want these to end. I feel like I'm going on a walk with my two besties." Oh. That was very sweet. Oh, Sarah. And she says, "You can mention my little daxon to you go." Oh. "Makes our walk so much more enjoyable, and I'm now rewatching all the episodes with a totally new insight." Oh. And she also, actually, fun fact. She pointed out, "You remember merely, merely." Hmm. She says, "Did you know that, within Greek mythology, the River Styx circles the underworld nine times." Huh. So that was it. was a nice catch yeah well done for that Sarah yeah well done very clever I'm assuming that would it was that just a coincidence or is that a I'm guessing you have the accident yeah we've also had an email from Helen who says hello both firstly thank you so much for the show I only got into inside number nine after it finished and had nobody to talk to about it it's always fascinating to hear interpretations of things and find out about the details I've inevitably missed secondly I had a dream about Reese and Steve the other night that I thought you might find amusing oh where's this going they were putting on a semi improvised play where roles were given out to members of the audience I got picked and immediately read the character brief out loud into my microphone ruining their amazing twist and pissing them both off I spent the rest of the dream desperately attempted to make up for it and of course only annoying Reese more both Steve to try to make me feel better that sounds so believable as a form of theatre kid myself dreams about stuff going wrong on stage are pretty common but this was the first time it was about actual celebrities anyway wish you all the best and I'm looking forward to season nine thank you Helen I can so see that happening I know exactly yes Reese being like oh not supposed to read out well fucking points go on what's the point all right you ruined the whole thing yeah yeah thank you for that that was very entertaining that was great so we're ticking down we've got four episodes to go yeah we'll be collating your award nominations yes so we said last week didn't we that you had one week yes to get your votes in so if you listen to this so votes are now closed yeah and if you're listening to this on the day it goes out then this week on our Instagram you will be able to vote for the next rounds of the tournament which you're organizing so do you want to explain a bit yeah so organizing a tournament we've used the rankings of all 55 televised episodes averaging out mine and Stephen scores we've ranked them and then put them into pots used around the number generator to create groups we will take the scores from the voting forms to whittle the groups down to a final 18 and they will be all pitted against each other and yeah we'll find out which episode you like the most we will yes very exciting to see what work comes down to and if it comes out with something that we voted less than a four I'm going to be very impressed if empty orchestra wins this whole thing in a sort of boat you both face protest votes it's going to say people are we're doing it as a process but yeah be so funny please don't do that please do it for your favorite yeah but yes yeah so that's very cool hopefully that works out yeah as intended and we will be collating all the other votes as what I know I'm very excited about that me too I've not seen any of them I've had a lot of responses so that's good yes yes pleasantly surprised but yes that's all to come at the end of the series yeah before then we'll be back next week with mulberry close we will but until then it's time to close the door on number nine but you never really leave do you thanks for listening to the ninth degree if you'd like to get in touch you can find us on instagram twitter and tiktok at ninth degree pod or email us at ninth degree pod at gmail.com you can also leave us a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts winning never sounded so good what would you do if you want big had crown coins casino real people win real prices every single day hi this is my go from Georgia I won 40k and finally renovated my home visit crowncoins.com sign up in seconds intercode crown and get a free lucky real bonus you may win up to 10,000 sweeps coins crowncoins.com that's C-R-O-W and coins.com no purchase needed code bell for new users on void were prohibited by law 18 plus terms and and give it some supply.