The Triathlon Hour with JONAS SCHOMBURG

[Music] Here he is, fresh off his second place Finnish at Ironman 70.3 Ocean side, where he pushed Christian Blumentfeld all the way, holding the lead until 18 kilometers into the run, and just before his first Ironman in a stacked Ironman Texas feel. I thought this was the perfect time to finally hear about the secrets of Jonas Schomburg's training. So, Jonas, welcome to your debut on the Triathlon Hour. Thank you, thank you for having me, yeah, it's great, it's an honor here. Yeah, it was close, close to greatness, but still chasing the first place. So, Texas in two and a half weeks now, going to be a good one. We were just talking about maybe how you can beat Christian at Texas off air there. So, we'll come back to that, we'll come back to that later and talk about your plan to get the job done at Texas, and finish first instead of second this time. But I want to start the podcast, Jonas, because in a place in the Triathlon World, where people who train hard kind of find each other and find the sport, your training still gets talked about by everyone who is that person, like everyone who talks about it is someone who trains hard, but everyone who knows about your training or a scene you train talks about just how hard you train and that you take it to the next level. So, my first question after hearing all these rumors about your 40 hour training weeks and high volume high intensity approaches, do you really train that hard and that much or is this all just a legend? They call me 40 hours man and I think that's true. I actually stepped back. Sure, I've got a sometimes a training block with 40 hours, which is true. And I've got a before the Olympics and sometimes we're all running like 160k, so 100 miles runs a week. So I've done then being there done that, but I think going fresh to the races, being fresh and ready that's gives me the better opportunity to race well. And I think there's a secret you don't have to be the best in the training. You can have some bad training days, but the matter what matters is the race day. And I'm getting knowing my body better and better and I think this working world and I'm still progressing getting faster and fit up. And now I'm 32 years old and still learning and my dad is my coach. So we have a close relationship. Also, it's really helping me. We talking basically every day and he sends me the program on WhatsApp and that's it. There's no big numbers, no analyzing over analyzing if it was a bad session, it was a bad session and then we move on to the next one. Let's get to the bottom of this training program with you and your dad then. So what do you actually do? Maybe let's talk about this training block into ocean side and Texas over the preseason. What has your training looked like? What is a typical training week looked like for you at the moment? Normally I've got like two sessions, I stick with two run sessions and did the biking. I had a little camp in Mallorca actually for 10 days and then I was riding like maybe 650 kilometers per week. I have a lot of riding, just I think I'm getting a lot of fitness from just riding a lot, not too big sessions, not too big watts, but just getting the overall fitness going and swimming. I've always been a good swimmer so I stick with only like five sessions, maybe four sessions. It's nothing crazy, just try to keep the speed up because with all the long distance races I think I'm losing the speed so my training program is basically more on based on the IT program. I haven't changed anything so I'm still basically training the same way as before the Olympics. So there are no secrets actually just consistency, hard work. Speaking of your bike riding, if you're doing 650 kilometers a week down in Mallorca, that probably means you're riding about 18 hours a week, would that be kind of roughly right? Probably, I don't actually count it or like I go with the feeling and how I feel. There's not like statistics or aiming for specific numbers. I think that's also kind of a secret like not sticking to like run 100K of running. Some people only have to run 100K. I just go with the flow. If it's more as far as less is with less. Yeah, okay. So with your training program with your dad, does he give you say, you know, go out and ride easy for five hours or go out and ride long just to feel like do you get to decide how long each of your rides are or is it purely based on feel? Okay, today I'm going to go out and ride until I feel like coming home type of thing. No, he gives you roughly the hours like three four or five hours normally and the sessions are also pretty simple. I trained with the few guys and they always say, Oh, how can you do it? It's so boring. Like if the swim sessions sub boring, the writing is like four times 20 minutes hard or something like that. And for me, I like it when it's really simple. Nothing too crazy, good, too complicated and it works for me and getting the job done. And he's someone who kind of repeats the same sessions every week. So for example, let's say if you had a 12 week training block to start this year, were you going out there and doing four by 20 minutes on the bike, you know, twice a week every week or or what does your session progression look like over say it at 12 week training block? Now we do a progression like over the winter, the winter block. I did start it was like maybe six minutes, then you go to eight minutes and 10 to 15 and 20. So it's all good up for the big races in the summer for challenge, Roth and then later on the corner which championships. So what's the biggest bike session that you've done so far this year? I don't know. Today I'm doing four times 15 and six times six minutes. So I think one of the biggest about nothing crazy longer than four times 20 minutes. I think that's from the duration. Sometimes I rather do actually shorter but harder intervals. So maybe eight times six but really, really hard. And I think this keeps me the power actually higher power. And I think that it's working for me and my race tactics, especially when I try to make the race fast as possible from the begun on on the big on the bike. So starting with 400 500 words and no one wants it to follow me, but I can like have done this in a training and I think this is one of the secrets. We're going to get into your race tactics because they are so unique at the moment in triathlon and everyone talks about it because not only do you attack for like solid of the first five, 10k of the bike, it kind of starts as soon as you get out of the water where you attack T1. And then if you haven't broken everyone, you attack T2 and you just are constantly attacking and it's clearly a mindset that you have that you're going to make every single second of the race as fast as you can and as hard for everyone else as you can. So that's really interesting to hear that you kind of approach your training that way as well. It's like well, I like doing about you know eight by six minutes really hard because that's how I'm going to race. So I guess the logical question is talk to me about power there when you say you like to push a little bit higher power sometimes and less duration. What what power are we talking here? That's all depends on the day on the fatigue which I'm doing the session actually. So like coming from a hard run session on the next day as a hard bike and it's a bit less but aiming always for the how I feel the RPE also the kind of the hardest possible. And how I can survive the session without totally blowing up. Not sticking too much on numbers. My dad gives me some numbers and I always try to beat them which that's kind of my game and my training but yeah but nothing crazy. I think I almost like aim for 400 or something and I think this is it's working and cause in the end is you have to be in the next days nothing another hard session is coming up. So you don't want to kill yourself with in this session because you know like next thing is coming up and then two days later there's another session. You always have to keep in the mind and in the long term when you do than the tapering then you're going to do some crazy numbers so like in the ocean side I was I think the first 30 minutes I was like 380 watts or something so I tried to make it hardest possible with all the turns and the cornering was quite a hard right and it worked out. Yeah that is huge numbers by the way no one would have been close to 380 maybe Sam long would have been but he also weighs quite a little bit more than you so yeah doesn't surprise me that the numbers of that high but they are really really high compared to everyone else in the field. Okay, so let's say that you're using that blend of RPE and kind of the power numbers that you've got in your head and that your dad has set as a recommendation. If you say you have four by 20 minutes or you know six by eight minutes or five by five minutes, what kind of RPE do you think on average you would hit for those sessions? Something like a seven when I go for like three thirty two fifty watts, that's what I do normally. Yeah, like two minutes recovery and then we go again for the next 20 minutes. And are you doing multiple sessions a week on the bike? Like are you two sessions a week every week? Normally one big like this and then some shorter ones and some torque work, some even some strands, yeah, everything. I also I ride a lot with on my road bike actually still because or like not sticking too much on the TT because I had some problems with my my sacrum in the last year when I started on the TT so I try to move on with a yeah road bike and TT sometimes you can grab a bike so just to mix it up a bit. Yeah, well I guess when you're doing 20 hours a week sometimes it's kind of it's kind of hard to do that in the TT position for those all 20 hours isn't it? Yeah, are you doing much on the indoor trainer or you an outdoor guy only? I'm an outdoor guy only. I think I mean say I'm mostly stayed well-based in Gerona so I'm lucky to go out most of the the year so sometimes I actually when it's like lower than 10 degrees ago on the home trainer so I don't like the cord that's my only I can't handle it once like getting cord and rainy so lower than 10 degrees home trainer. Yeah, this is a big difference between Europeans and Americans because I reckon most American pros spend you know a lot of time on the home trainer and most European pros spend almost no time on the on the home trainer so I could have guessed that you were one of those guys who doesn't like to do much on the trainer and what about a long ride Jonas given that you are doing that much volume in a week do your sessions become your long rides or are you a guy who does sessions and long rides separately like do you have a dedicated long ride day? Yeah, that's the thing I think my long ride is still nothing more than five hours so it's I heard what other Ironman guys doing is way more or long runs also but my riding is and then the running my long run on a long bike is nothing crazy so I think I'm getting the hours in the sessions in over the week and not specific in the long ride. And do you ride most days? Are you a guy who rides five times six times seven times a week? Do you ever do double bike days? Yeah, I've done that also but to split up the sessions a bit but normally six times per week so Monday off and during the rest of the week actually riding. And you just said before about the talk intervals so are you still a guy who does big gear work and and you do that only in short intervals or do you do long intervals with with big gear? Both. You sound normally with smaller intervals and then get longer and longer just working on the talk and especially I'm not that they come or like heavy compared to other Ironman guys so try to get like like efficiency in my riding and so it helps and I think it's a bit old school but I like old school actually like my my dad was trained and also by Brett Sutton and sometimes I think we're doing some sessions and like him I also trained with I think I survived two weeks with Brett Sutton but it's a good mindset what he has for training. I never knew this this is this is news to me okay so was your dad a professional triathlete or an age group triathlete? Are you a professional ten years in the national team yet? Really I never knew that. Yeah but it's only in short distance but I think he did two Ironmans and that's it yeah. What was his PB over the Ironman distance? I don't even know. Yeah there you go okay so that's making a lot of sense about where your training philosophy comes from then so talk to me about that time training with Brett Sutton like where was it? Did you only last two weeks because of because of how hard it was or how demanding it was or what was it that only got you two weeks in? It was actually in Saint Moritz and I joined the his group a bit was able to join him straight arrived and we went into the far leg session and everyone dropped me because altitude and it's proper hard sessions and yeah I remember also the I think on Sunday instead of a long bar we did like two and a half hour run and then in the afternoon another 10k run and I just was falling in part after two weeks. When was this? How long ago was this? Probably 10 years ago. Yeah I was going to say there's no way that breaks you anymore so I thought it must have been a long time ago because now like yeah like you probably if you reflect on that time do you train harder now than what you did in that kind of two week camp that broke you that all that time ago? No I've got actually also before limpsies and then really hard periods were training really really hard with a French coach also and always trying to find the limits kind of what is possible how far I can go. I have been sometimes in the overtraining kind of feeling when I was sitting on the couch and sweating and I was like okay maybe I have to take an easy day tomorrow or half a day of but I'm learning my body and try to not overdo it because I love training I'm enjoying it and I'm always up for some sessions when I link up with some people or did they do a session okay to just jump in. I'm not going to tell you who told me this but I was getting told a story at the Iman World Championships last year by someone who had trained with you and they said that a group of people did a swim with you and they were doing it was like a the main set was intervals where they did one hard one easy one hard one easy and you joined in on the session except you just made the slight change instead of doing one hard one easy you did all of them hard so that you would lead the lane and these are good swimmers who were telling me about this as well you led the lane and you were the fastest in the hard rep and then when they did the easy rep you did it just as fast as you did the fast one with them do you remember this session so do you know who I'm talking about and and is this true like are you just that guy who who trains that hard compared to everyone else. Yeah I like hard training it's good fun eh now I can't remember actually I probably must unfortunately not can't remember but yeah a lot of hard swimming is for me it's like way easier or like most of the sessions I do on my own so training most of the sessions on my own and then it's always easier to do a hard session than an easy one. If you were to give advice to say a poor age group swimmer or you know how there's lots of professional triathletes at the moment who are good bike runners but they just can't quite get it together in the swim you know talk about your your Lionel Sanders or your Leon Chivaliers or your Ari Klaus or your Trevor Follies guys who are decent swimmers but they just know where near your level of swimmer what advice would you give to them to become as good a swimmer as you in their training. When I was like around 20 I think I did in the offseason or kind of like a 100k swim week for two weeks so just something like this just to get to another level just to step up and then you can still go for a run but maybe skip the bike for two weeks and do just 100k swim weeks and then you want to feel it 100%. The room is a true mate. Like the room is a fat you are true. You just love it don't you you you love it you love training. Yeah yeah just love it but you always have to keep in mind training is training racing is racing you want to be fresh for the racing. It sounds like you just any chance you get you would love to race though like you sound like a natural racer like if someone came and trained with you I reckon they've got to be prepared to race a fair bit in a training week don't they? Yeah that's my race up to 25 races on the ITU distance so in the short distance and now I'm actually a little bit sad that I can't race that much so it's maybe like 10 races still it's a lot compared to other guys I'm racing a lot but I love it and sometimes the recovery takes longer so but I keep it up even in a race week try to do some sessions and and I think my tapering not a big fan of tapering so still I think I tap one and a half one day one and a half days before 70.3 in Ironman and still on Wednesday I have like two runs double run and so three sessions before the race. Okay let's talk about your running that's a good segue into your running when it comes to your run mileage you talked about how you done you know 160 kilometer a hundred mile weeks in your short course days where do you find yourself these days I know you said you you know it's not a set distance that you do every week you're not trying to hit a hundred K a week but where have you found yourself say over the last three months what kind of volume are you hitting per week in your running? I guess no it's more than around 90k per week takes days of running in a per week two sessions try to be just consistency two sessions or sometimes I do three but normally I stick to two and some but keeping the speed up so actually I try to do I think before the lead I was doing like 10 times 1k on track and 255 something yeah like six times six minutes eight times six just some good threshold work yeah and all outside or you're doing any of that on the treadmill because I would say that's the one place Europeans do seem to take things indoors you know six by six eight by eight five by six five by five that's that's kind of become a European thing you get on the treadmill you take your lactate you put some videos out on Instagram if you're doing it no that's not me I'm always outside also no lactate I think for me it's just on fallen feeling still in the race without a watch but try to stick to my pacing in the training yeah and the second session a week is that is that also kind of a faster one and like let's say if you're doing 10 by 1k as one year sessions per week what does your second session that week look like so normally I do on Monday some strides just to get some leg speed going and then it's like on Tuesday normally some 1k reps and then maybe on Saturday on Friday I do some VU2 max also just some even quicker sessions yeah that's my kind of one view to max and one threshold work kind of work yeah give me some example of that VU2 max session that you do on the Friday or the Saturday I love actually from my French coach which was really working really well was like the 30 seconds on 30 seconds off and this like 30 times yeah that's a yeah that's a tough session 30 by 30 on 30 off what kind of pace you're hitting for the 30 on in average around 320 pace so under 3 and then over so in overall you get like 320 pace yeah okay so maybe like 240 to 255 and then 330 type of thing yeah that's like about he's a big session when you do that do you do put the superstures on or you kind of a guy that saves superstures for racing it's like temple when I think that they have still carbon plate from my my SX shoes but the super shoes the proper racing shoes it's just for race day yeah okay wait so which shoe do you use for your sessions in training the what is it mega blast the nova blast and for my easier on the numbers and for the race day it's the the ray yeah I like it actually yeah yeah you prefer the ray over the edge or the score yeah if it's like steady on flat and like straightforward then the ray if it's a bit more like I think an X on proven so like once you do too many turns and stuff I'll go for the edge yeah and do you do a long run as well like you were wakely long run kind of guy I know you mentioned that you don't do the super long run but you still do a long run not really like my I think my longest run is maybe one hour 30 something or wow yeah it's not crazy but well sometimes I do a morning run and then my session and I get to 34k or something so yeah sometimes I also do like a block of every day every morning you go for a run so you just you get the the mileage up so if you do 10k before breakfast and that's 70k so running already so that's why I got to this 160k sometimes so in the lead up to say i'm an Texas that's coming up what is going to be the longest run that you've done and what's the biggest run wake that you've done mileage was nothing crazy just sticking to 80k and 90k I think the the base training was I have done and over the last three months was working really well and I think the overall fitness from biking and the last 10k 15k gonna hurt anyway so I'm not the I think everyone who's doing those super long runs just make them tired you can't do too many 35 40k runs so just taking every time a bit of your energy and mentally and it's gonna hurt anyway do you think that it is kind of different to doing a straight marathon because a professional marathon runner or even just a good amateur marathon runner is going to do lots of you know 32 35 36 38 40 kilometer runs whereas I agree most triathletes that are really really good don't tend to do a lot of that and and you're not the first person I've heard who's really really good describe that exact way that the last 10k the marathon's gonna hurt anyway and I'm and you can't really train for it and doing a 40k run doesn't really prepare you that much more for it than say a 30k long run which I've always found really interesting but but like a lot of good people a lot of world champions at the distance talk about this so do you think that to do the best marathon off the bike is just completely different in training than say running the best marathon you can fresh 100% what Alex he was running 92 6 I think the leg speed and the sessions what you need to do like for proper marathon is so much harder for the legs and then the Ironman we run maybe 3 20 30 30 pace it's the 3 30 pace and then you have going for 230 that's I think that we do more kind of a tempo run so it's nothing where you need like the high speed and all the fitness you gain from the riding and running and swimming it's already good enough and coming back to the the racing so you've just done ocean side where you where you finish second and like I said you push Christian Bloomingfeld all the way do you think that 20 meters is going to change things at Ironman Texas like we we said we were talking about it before the show off air and and I kind of tease that we might talk about your tactics to beat people like Christian and Casper and Gustav do you think that 20 meters is the key to you being able to win at Texas and are you going to you're going to take advantage of that unfortunately I think the the 20 meters I hope the bit more than it actually have it's like they used to benefit a lot when you're staying in the group what other people were saying it wasn't easy ride and they're on in the group in ocean side and for me it was quite a hard ride actually and I'm only like two minutes ahead and they so maybe I have to change my Texas staying more in the group and then go for fast run but yeah I hope actually a bit more to make the race harder and more honest but I still think there's a big benefit of being in a group when it's 20 meters are you lying to me here because that doesn't sound like the Jonas Schomburg I know I don't think I've ever seen you just sit in a group in fact I don't even think I've really seen you sit second wheel that much you kind of hate even being the second blowout on the on the bike course even if you get overtaken you like instantly try and repass and get back into the lead of the race it gives me good energy when I hear the helicopter head of me yeah just I think it's my my racing is just from the front I love it and I have my best races when I'm was leading it and pushing and I can control the other guys a bit how I that how much time I have on them I have to push or not so that's I love being in that position but on the Ironman game we will see how there are lots of fast swimmers also in Texas and a huge field and also a strong cyclist and maybe I have to change my tactics and play my cards differently are you saying this because you think Christian might listen and you don't want to give it away because you got a little smirk on your face that makes me think you might be lying to me I've had said that a lot of times but never change my tactics it's stuck in my head so every coach would say oh pacing pacing pacing you're running way too fast the first K you're biking you have to do steady power but now it's me just going from the gun do you think that's the secret as to why you're so good just that desire to always be pushing the pace yeah I'm not holding back for sure and I want to give everything kind of and make it harder as possible for everyone I love when it's I'm not the guy who's waiting and being patient I it's not me I feel like it's kind of boring a lot of when I take some risks and it worked many in ten times yeah it worked many times and at ocean side when you're in that battle with Sam long take me inside that maybe give me a little bit of a mini race report he caught me like after 75k I think he waited a few minutes behind me and then to pass me actually and then we opened I think the gap even more because he was pushing some good words already behind him I was one and twenty minutes behind him when I felt that helps actually quite a lot because I can follow his line when he was breaking I can break a bit later or like see where he is and I think yeah that So the last 15k was good for me. I was ready for a run. His transition was super fast because he didn't put on shoes, socks. And then he was already like 10, 15 seconds ahead of me. I had to close the gap, try to close it not too quickly after a statement, to do it in one K or something. And then as I passed him immediately I searched and tried to open the gap, but he closed it after seven kills. I was like, and then he gave me the fist bump and let's set me you against KB. And I was like, yeah, let's do it. So he took some turns, everyone, especially with a hat when it was not that easy. He was strong on the uphill. So, but I felt I was stronger on the downhits with my leg turn over. So in the second lap on the downhill, I just pushed another gear and dropped him. Yeah, and KB was closing and closing and passed me I think 18k. So maybe 10 minutes ago, I was like, try to go with him on the downhits. That was okay, but then the next upper he dropped me. And that's it. It was a good battle with Sam all day. I think I really enjoyed it. I think also the atmosphere on the Americans was screaming for Sam. Yo, yo, yo, and I loved it. Just being more the underdog here and just, but was grace racing. At any point, did you think that you had the race one? Or did you always think Christian was probably going to get you? Pretty close. After the first turn around, he saw Christian was already really close. And I heard also from that he's closing the gap, way quicker than so. I was pretty sure that he was catching us and we have to step up. But it's hard if you have to get another gear. The pace of the running at the moment over 70.3 has kind of, it appears like it might have gone to the next level even this year compared to last year. Doesn't it with Christian opening up the season with basically 2106 runs in a row at Iman 70.3, so long and then a week later at Ocean side. Do you get that sense as well that you're not going to be able to win races just running a 109/2 marathon anymore? Oh, it depends where you're racing. But I think I'm with big ones. You have to run at least 1-8107 or even quicker. So there are no easy races anymore. So everyone thinks stepping up the running game, the sacking game, so it never gets easier. And something I wanted to ask your opinion of is you're obviously involved in that battle with Sam Long for more than anyone at Ocean side and you and him were in the battle for first and second and you ultimately ended up coming second. But he came forth with Casper Steiner's passing him right at the very end of that run. And obviously Sam went from being in that mindset of I'm in the fight with Jonas and Christian for the win to finishing off the podium. And then he crossed the line and he was screaming and he was angry about it. And he was just pissed off because I've talked to him and he kind of just said that he felt like it was right there and he was fighting for the race and then to not ever get on the podium just didn't feel good. Can you relate to that feeling? Like when you saw, did you see his emotion at the finish line? And what did you think of it? Yeah, you were screaming. We were like, Christian, you want to actually give him high five for the race, but he was like screaming and he was like, okay. But he's emotional race and I love it. And on the race course, he's not holding back. He gives everything and I think that's good for the sport being emotionally. And afterwards he was shaking hands. And he's a great sportmanship and also the fist bump and let's work together kind of stuff. I know I love that. I haven't raced him actually too much, Sam, but he's definitely emotional race. Precision fuel and hydration make the best jails in the game. High five. They're PF 30 jail, they're PF 30 caffeine jail, they're PF 90 jail. They're just the best. And if you haven't tried them already, I just want you to try them before your next race because I'm pretty sure that if you try them in training, you will use them for your next race. They're just so much better than the next best option that I just want everyone to try them because if you don't use them, I just genuinely believe you're missing out. I also wanted to kind of give you some tips on how you can use precision jails. So let's say for example, if you've got a session, a bike session, run session, it doesn't matter. I think that a little trick is to use a PF 30 caffeine jail about 15 to 20 minutes before the session starts. So maybe it like the start of your warm up or a K or two into your warm up or like if you've got a little break between your where your session starts and your warm up finishes, but you're going to take maybe 10 minutes to get into your session. That can be a really good time to use them as well. 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You don't even need to like have them in your pocket. You can just carry them in your hand for the entire long run and just sip on it as you go throughout the long run. It's a really good way to make sure you get your fuel in during your long run. I also think hydration is one of the most underrated things in the game. Like sometimes you feel so awful in the afternoon after a morning training session and you can't figure out why. And I guarantee you at least some of the time it's hydration and not replacing what you lost in your sweat. So I really like the pH 1000 tablets, but if you're a big sweater, maybe the pH 1500 tablets are better for you. 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And when you do buy anything from Precision's website or if you have in the past and you love our podcast, we just really appreciate if you wrote on Precision's form that they have there during checkout that you heard about them through the triathlon. It supports the podcast and would mean the world to us. So thank you if you do do that ahead of time. What gets you motivated? What do you, when you're out there racing or in training, what are you thinking about? What's your mentality? What are your motivations? What inspires you? The sound of the helicopter. I love the Ironman game with In My Bayer and when there's the atmosphere there. So this gives me goosebumps. Challenge riding up the solar here. Just thinking about it. Give me goosebumps. Yeah, that's what I'm striving for is obviously the win but getting closer and closer. Do you ever have days in training where you struggle and don't want to get out there? Oh, yeah, 100%. Like, especially when it's dark and the winter cold. I'm really struggling actually. Sometimes it takes 10 minutes and you get, then you're actually enjoying it but I think what is it saying? It's one third of the training is great. It's good enough. But sometimes you just have to get it done and afterwards you feel good but sometimes it's just hard work. How do you do that? How do you go about getting out the door when you don't want to? I'm pushing it back and back and back but sometimes I'm still running at 11pm and so the main thing is getting it done at the end of the day. Normally I in summer I really train late so it's not too late but sometimes just 10 and 11pm. That's just the most European thing of all time. That doesn't happen anywhere else in the world really except in Europe where it's like especially you training in Spain at the moment that's actually not uncommon at all. A lot of people are still out there training at 9pm. on 10pm which it just seems crazy to me but it's actually relatively normal there, huh? Yeah, they struggle in the morning but they train really late. So in the winter I try to swim to train a bit earlier actually but I still love it when it's getting dark and the vibe and you're out there still training. Do you prioritize sleep or you a guy who thinks sleep is important? Yeah, normally I do it like two naps even so this is my nap time here. So yeah, well you need it because you go to bed at 2am after finishing your run at midnight. Yeah, two one nap for sure like 20 minutes, 30 minutes and try to go to sleep as much as possible. What time would you on average go to sleep and get up? Normally like 10, 11pm and then get up at like 7.8. Oh it's not too bad then. So obviously the days that you're like training super late are not that common. No, not really. Just when it's really warm in the winter and travel day. I also know after a long travel day is I normally go for another 30 minutes, 45 minutes jog even when it was like midnight almost there. I go for a run just to flush out the legs. I want to come back to some more specific training questions. I just I had a little break from them but I've got like lots more. Coming back to the to the bike you talked about your you kind of have that 400 watt number where it's like a really good day in intervals you know you're trying to aim for about 400 watts or trying to get past that 400 watt number. What length interval do you kind of like when does that start is at five minute reps where you're like okay these are 400 watt reps is at six minutes is at eight minutes is at 10 minutes like what what what kind of like length interval is it that you're you're thinking of that 400 watt number as the power you want to push. I'm going to eat a hand eight minutes on flat. Yeah on the on the here it's always easier to push words but you're like 400 on eight minutes that's kind of the way I'm well aiming for. Yeah so if you had four by eight minutes on your program for example or five by eight minutes you're thinking okay I want to hit I want to hit 400 watts for these. Yeah yeah yeah. What do you reckon you could do for a 20 minute PB? I did I think for one hour 400 like on a time trial that was like when COVID was and then we did like a time trial like race kind of in a like three at 98 or something for one hour. You're a sick man you're an absolute sick sick man 400 watts for one hour what do you why? Like is that can I ask that? I think now I'm more like a 74 75 guy KG I was already like my two days also way lighter like 67 or something and I'm 190 so 190 so maybe was a bit too skinny but I think for the long distance I need to be more robust and I think it helps also for the sacking for sure. Yeah but that's still almost five and a half watts per per KG for an hour that's big numbers for a triathlete mate that's really really big numbers. Yeah it's just finally I can play out my cycle my back strength so no hiding in the bunch anymore so the long distance and non-drafting actually is helping me. Yeah how often do you like really test the limits in your cycling training like you know for example you you said that you're a guy who likes to get outside like how often are you like okay I'm going to really push for this KOM and like go 10 out of 10 in training like how often do you go 10 out of 10 in a training week on the bike? No probably not so only a race day maybe and then I see also way different numbers but before this nothing nothing crazy yeah just a consistent solid work and but nothing I am completely bonk or nothing over yeah and you talked about how people refer to you as Mr 40 hours which is true you're like that is something when you talk to professionals it is actually it's actually stupid how often it comes up oh did you know you only Sean Berg trains 40 hours a week but that comes up so much more than you would expect it to come up how many how many weeks have you trained 40 hours say over the last six months you reckon? Oh not maybe two or three weeks only so not crazy um well when you do more cycling for sure you get way easier to the 40 hours but with the running and cycling over swimming it's not that much I also do three times some core work or gym kind of per week I'm a tall guy and I need a lot of stability from my run and I think it helps from all my three disciplines I talked with uh first my comic actually said to me that you need more core work and then I started this core routine and it works and then helps me when I'm getting fatigued then keep my hip forward and everything in place. Give us you go to core core routine like if you could only do one core session if everyone could copy it and we'll call it like the Jonas Schomburg core session what would it be? I do planking a lot of planking I think almost addicted to planking. How long could you hold a plank for? I haven't tested it but yeah I do it like three four times a week it's just stability I think that's the secret um some people don't want it's also injury prevention but I haven't got injured for a long time now and I think that's also secret. Yeah you know Craig Alexander he always talks about that core stability he agrees he thinks it's like one of the the big secrets that a lot of people don't do and he talks about a lot and it's funny for you to say that that maca talks about it because I think that maca learned that from Kroey because Kroey was obsessed with it back in the day and Kroey and maca were obviously big rivals so it's just kind of interesting that that maca is the person who said that too because yeah Craig Alexander the three-time world champ and well five-time world champ if you include 70.3 world titles he's obsessed with it as well and would do do the same thing a lot of planking a lot of exercise ball planking that kind of thing. Yeah now I talked with uh busy with all the good great guys with Jan Fudino Thomas Heireg, Lotto leader like the German uh goat specialty from the long distance uh because and I'm just if I can learn something from them they're just giving me some advice sometimes I ring them in Kroey then I call them and they talk a bit about for training and how I can do in project and so it's always good to have an like an outside perspective on getting some like advice from a from a different angle. Talk to me about some of these what some of the the pieces of advice that you've received that you think are gems. Like Thomas Heireg you were saying to me I shouldn't reduce bit my run the volume and go more biking and why does still keep the I have to the engine must be like on foot throttle like keep going with the special work even in race weeks and you have to keep up the intensity and yeah some little things like that can help actually. What about Jan Fudino what advice is he giving you? It was more like uh when I actually moved to the long distance and he advised me uh or gave me I asked him actually if he can can he advised me some coaching advisors or what he would recommend me and yeah that was more like a personal talk yeah. A secret talk. Yeah let's secret talk from the goat. Okay I won't push it I won't push it I'm gonna uh I'm gonna find that out though what what happened in the secret conversation between Jonas and Yarn that's my new goal in life. I think one of the most underrated ways to be a faster athlete is to just be healthier. Most people enjoy the training required to get fit like most people are really good at that but so many of those people never quite get as fit as they could because they're asleep or diet or lifestyle doesn't allow them to get the most out of themselves and that's where pillar performance can help you if you are one of those people in a big big way. You can get their triple magnesium powder and instantly improve your sleep quality you can get their protein powder and start having that after sessions or at night time so that your protein intake is higher you recover faster but also just so that you're less likely to crave bullshit junk food like we all know what it's like when you go for a run or a ride and you come back and eat everything inside or at night time you haven't eaten enough during the day so you snack on junk at night just start taking pillar performances protein powder after your sessions and after dinner and those cravings go away um their collagen really helps prevent injuries it's a brilliant product their creatine monohydrate will make you faster and help you focus more they've got ultra omega ultra be active and immune see which will all just improve your health and you can get all of these products take them together and overall be a better healthier version of yourself and allow yourself to get the most out of your training you're doing be the fittest version of you that you've ever been so if you do want to get any of that then head over to pillar performances website use the discount code tt h15 for 15% off or if you're in America go to the feed.com/pillar and same thing use the tt h15 discount code for 15% off and all those details are in today's show notes going back to your swimming i don't i don't really tend to talk too much about swimming because i get bit bored of it, but I am interested in your swimming because I know that you swim like a lot and hard and hearing you give the advice before to Trevor Foley and the crew to swim 200k in two weeks. That is, I've got to admit, throughout the conversation, I keep thinking about that while we're talking. So what does a typical swim week look like for you? Are you a high mileage guy? Not crazy. I do 25k per week around. So it's I think only five sessions. Sometimes I do it. I like it in the winter. I'm still doing like one session is like seven or eight k. So a bit like more like endurance and the rest of the sessions is more like intensity. Most of the sessions is always like intensity 40 times 120 times 200 times 10 400 or something like really simple stuff. Yeah. And what kind of pace are you doing for your 40 by 100 or you know 10 by 200 or 10 by 400? The 100's a long pool I go like 110 or something and then leaving 120 25. Yeah. That's 200 similar pace. I think that not the fastest pool swim actually. Open water and way better. I can defend my position and quick in the start but I love being in the second position and I can have a good overview of someone that's behind me. I can try to block him a bit and then let he stays behind me not getting too much hips. I also do a lot of surfing actually when I was in South Africa and I think this is also kind of position and in the water your orientation is quite good. So I love being in the water and do a lot of water sports and I think that's kind of I'm also not afraid of being close to other guys. I love when I'm touching and really good of aggressive around the boys and yeah that's for me it's just easy to the open water swimming. Yeah. So what would you say to those those guys who aren't like that who get dropped at the start of every swim and and bleed time in the water? What do you think they should add to their training or or maybe it's a mental thing? What should they what should they add or do differently to to become more like you? I think a short distance career helps so it's you gain so much experience in those swims in the ITU and the short it's like it's just it's a tough better but compare now going to the long distance it's just it's easy the start is there's no fighting and so that helps for sure and then just the racing experience just race more get out there doing some open water races and also swim in a group where it's a bit in the training and try to be like close to each other and just get the feeling for it. And you talked about how your main sets are quite simple quite basic hundreds 200 200 400s what is your go to like what's your favorite like main session? Probably it's the I always do like a short warm up that's I don't know why everyone's doing like 1k 800 meter warm up I just do 200 and then we straight to the set I think in the race you also don't do 800 1k warm up so my warm up is really short and then straight to the 200 I love 200s I could not agree more I could not agree more I was so okay I was having this conversation with the alleghians before 70.3 World Championships we went for a run on race week and he said that just because of the timings of the pool he could only do 100 200 meters warm up and then into his main session which he never does and he was like oh it felt so weird and I was like don't you think you should be doing that more given on race day sometimes you don't even do 200 meters warm up before you before you start your race but then everyone does that in training where they do a k a k and a half and you know it's like 15 20 minutes of swimming before they get into their main set and then they wonder why they don't feel amazing in the first you know 400 meters of the swim do you so do you agree I found an an ally here 100% like there's sometimes no time you have to put the wets alone you're stressed and then you go into the water and then you have to race and no one is doing like 800 meter before the race to be honest so you have to you can do like two accelerations and that's it yeah I love this and I think it's a good one for age groupers as well and amateurs who I think sometimes even warm up less than pros because it's quite chaotic like at practice doing less warm up and getting straight into threshold swimming or even above threshold right because like a lot of people I don't know if you are but a lot of people are going VO2 max for the first you know two three minutes of an open water swim after pretty much no warm up and then wondering why they're getting dropped from the group yeah so maybe they should change it or try to and then maybe it works out to find the next race interesting I bet you a lot of people will try that now I bet you'd Trevor Foley does it does a warm up this week where he only swims 200 meter warm up and then into a main set I bet my I bet all my money on it it's too late it's too late okay I want to just quickly come back to the bike I don't want to I don't want to try and give away all your secrets although I think we've pretty much got to the bottom of most of it you talked about how you do all your riding outside 650k a week so you know you're an 18 20 hour a week kind of guy and you're not doing too much crazy stuff by the sounds of it but just good consistent riding two sessions a week that kind of thing is there anything that we've missed here like is there a secret we're missing on the bike is it like is there something that you do that we haven't talked about I don't think so I think keep it simple I don't overdo it but enjoying it I think sometimes I just enjoy my riding and then it's an hour more it's an hour more so it doesn't matter so don't overthink it over-inalyze everything and also if you can't hit the numbers or you're aiming for then it's the what it is so coming always with the fatigue into the right so it's I think people stressed too much about it so let's say you have a planned session let's say you have five by eight minutes or four by 20 minutes and you're you've got power goals and you're not hitting them that day do you stop the session and just do an easy ride or do you just go I'll just ride as hard as I can that day for that session I don't really care what the what the numbers are I always try to finish the sessions on the bike and the run even I don't hit the numbers I think get at least the the work I've done the intensity the mileage into the legs and just try to be as best as possible and the next day is coming up yeah because I reckon that is something that that separates the best from from maybe the the guys who aren't quite there and and a common theme that I hear reoccurring is the best guys don't tend to pull the pin on many sessions I mean I've talked to most people in the sport at this point on this podcast and I reckon that is something that you hear all the good athletes say it's like I don't really stop the session just because I'm not hitting the power numbers like I just do the best I can that day with the legs I've got whereas a common theme I've noticed about athletes who maybe aren't quite at that level is they do they do go I'll just come back and do this session tomorrow like I'll pull the pin on it and I'll try again tomorrow rather than sticking to the plan and just giving the best they have all they just pull the pin on the session all together and don't do it so do you agree with that do you think that if you want to be the best you should be that you should just be ticking off the the program the best you can and then moving straight on rather than skipping it all together or or trying to do it the you know later that day or or the following day sometimes I even like also like have to move the sessions when I'm really in a whole kind of feeling like that I'm really tired and from maybe the run in the morning and then the bike is maybe a bit too much in our decision then I move it to the maybe two or three days later but it's always depending most of the times I still get it done especially when I started the sessions I always do it. How often would you would you move a session do you reckon like how often is that happening is that is that very rare that's really where yeah so when I'm really like in a training block deep and tired then I move it yeah yeah okay and you talked about how you know if you go out and ride for an hour extra don't stress like don't don't think too much about it do you think that generally speaking more is better like if you're enjoying a ride and and it's planned for four hours but it becomes four and a half hours or five hours or six hours do you think that if you're if you're enjoying it and it's feeling good and you want to stay out there that generally speaking you should stay out there depends in altitude I rather try to do less so but in sea level I think the more is better more is more that's my stigma yeah train harder not smarter yeah all the gadgets just throw it away just do do it on feeling and train hard yeah yeah okay so let's say for example you have a session set like that's I don't know it's four hours long what percentage of the time do you think you're just doing four hours exactly versus doing a little bit longer like is it just a normal thing that that most days you you stay out in the bike a little bit longer or is it is it more on the rear side of things and you actually are the majority of the time just sticking to what you've got but you always have the freedom if you want to do longer. I always have a freedom. That's what make it simple. But I try to stick to the numbers if I'm in the new places, always different. Like if I'm more 30 minutes more, what I guess. But yeah. That's my takeaway quote from this podcast though is more is more because I am like, I get the feeling like that is definitely your mindset, isn't it? And maybe not on the run at the moment. That's the that's the exception. You know, like you're not the kind of guy who's turning a 30 K long run into a 35 K long run, are you or or a 100 K run week into 150 K run week. But definitely in the pool and on the bike, it sounds like more is more for you. But when it comes to long course racing, maybe on the run, that isn't the case so much. No, it's rather do a rather do shorter sessions and faster ones and less mileage, which was working actually more when I feel like I'm fresher into the sessions and getting faster than I was actually do it when I was did the 160 Ks of running. So there was always like the general fatigue from some kind of the time on the feet, like all the running, the easy stuff. So just skip it a bit and do the sessions properly. And then we talked about your 200s being your favorite pool session. We'll do it for the bike and the run. If you could only do one session on the bike, what would it be? I love the four times 20 minutes kind of stuff. Yeah, it's like long steady power. That's good. Like I also do like just maybe two minutes recovery on it and just and just head down and pushing the woods. Yeah. Do you ever do more recovery or do you think that it's kind of just two minutes maximum, you know, just get straight back into it straight back to it. I think if you need more recovery, it was too hard. So maybe set bigger bit for the woods. So it should aim for like argument power. What's yeah, which I guess for you, you said before in the four by 20 minute intervals, you're doing 330 to 350 watts. So kind of like, I don't know, four and a half to 4.8 watts per KG, something like that. Yeah. Sounds good. It's still pretty high power. Like it's not crazy. It's not as crazy as you're you're 400 watts for an hour, but it's still pretty bloody highs in it. Yeah, but it's it's a good session, but you're not completely killing yourself, but it's a nice workout and you can do it like more in the week, like doing shorter stuff, like maybe three times ten, four times ten or something. Just in this area of this, what's just do it more and try to increase the time you're pushing these watts. Yeah. So what is the longest session that you've done? Look, you talk about these four by 20 is a long one, but what, like let's say in the last three months, what's the longest session you've done on the bar? That's probably the longest I've done actually. It's more like the ITU training to maybe three four sessions like this in a week, but nothing over two hours and total like the intensity. And I've held off for about an hour talking about it, but I'm going to I'm going to talk about it now. Zone two training on the bike when you get out there for this, you know, 20 hour bike week that you're doing most weeks, when you're not doing sessions, are you riding super easy or are you kind of a guy who would rather push a little bit of higher power all the time and maybe spend most of the time in zone two, zone three throughout your 20 hours? Depends. I'm really tired. I really go easy. Zone two, never heard about it. So I just go on feeling. I think you have heard of it. Yeah, but I think I'm not going like super hard on my, in my right, everyone is welcome to join me. You're not kind of the Tadei Pagarcha star where it's like his pressure on the pedals all day for 30 hours a week? No, not at all. So sometimes I go riding with my girlfriend and then it's like 170 watts I sing. Then it's like this. I think if you always go hard, also it's not good and makes you tired for the sessions and I try to be fresh for the sessions. Yeah. Well, I guess that's a theme that I'm getting here is that you're training although although high volume, it's still a very polarized approach, isn't it? Like you you have freedom to train very easy when you need. You're doing a lot of your mileage is quite easy, but when you go hard, you really are going hard. Swim back and run. Yeah. So I'm talking like the Norwegian method is great, but there's some but method is better. The Norwegian method is one zero this year though. You got to give him that. Yeah. They are doing really well. But you see, next race is coming up. You always as good as the last race. So Texas in two weeks. Yeah. Texas is the big showdown. That's the one that you both care about really like. Even though ocean sides field was probably a little bit stronger, not much though. The Texas field still crazy, crazy strong and definitely going to be the strongest field outside the Ironman World Championships. But I still get the feeling that if you could only win one, you'd pick Texas over ocean side, wouldn't you? No, ocean side, I think there's a big vibe around it. If you could only win one, you'd pick ocean side. I think so. Ocean side, I love it. Going there next year, 100%. Also Texas, every sea, but I think ocean side was meant to be. Yeah. Well, I agree, mate. We did the road to ocean side. I think it's one of the best races on the calendar. That's why we started the year with the road to ocean side series because I agree. I reckon it's one of the best races. The crowd there's insane, isn't it? It's like crazy, crazy crowd on that run course. It's crazy. The whole location, it's really nice, the vibe around the whole week leading up to the race. It's beautiful. I'm one of the beach guys type. 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So if you do want to go and get yourself one, then go to Leaver Movement's website and use the code TTH for 20% off and I'll put those details in the show notes at a big discount that 20% off one so yeah TTH that one was. And we didn't talk about the run but what's your favourite run session? If you could only do one run session what would it be? The one K reps is it's a beauty so sometimes I did like one K off one K on one K off kind of stuff so maybe like 20 times something like that so one is around 3 10 pace or 3 or 5 and the other one is like 3 40 35 something just the on and off stuff this great fun. Great session 20k of 1k on 1k off classic. You really are just like an old school guy aren't you? I didn't realise like I knew you weren't a full Norwegian method kind of guy I knew you were but I didn't realise that you may be more like a no bullshit science max newman type of guy. Yeah probably I haven't tested lected in any training yet so also like all the gadgets and how you're feeling the ring is tracking your sleep and nothing so that's all I'm feeling no gadgets just doing the work. Yeah. Does your dad coach any other triathletes or is it just you? He's like coaching only like in the region we have like every Saturday like small kids they're like four to maybe 10 years and then he coaching them it's like the new talents of our regions so And then it's me. - Yeah, okay. Well, I don't know. I'm surprised more people don't hit him up after the success you're having. We were talking before the point about how, no one used to care about what your own as Sean Berg was doing and now suddenly everyone wants to train with you and everyone sends you messages to train with you and wants to hear about the secret. Has that been a weird thing with this kind of, you know, you found fame in the long course world where suddenly you are one of the best guys in the world and everyone wants to hear about the Sean Berg method? - Sure, like the media attention is way bigger now than in my short distance career. And but I still don't think I can trust my family and my people I know for the last 10 years. And I think everyone wants to be part of this kind of hype now or like getting to want to know what I'm doing differently and learn what I'm whole. You see that fast, but as I said, there are no secrets. - I have heard about one thing though that might be a potential secret that I think I'm spreading more than anyone because it's like my favorite story ever from when I first heard it. And I don't even know if it's true. But as soon as I got told, I just thought it was so, so funny that I've told it to everyone. So I might be responsible for spreading this. But someone told me, someone told me that you ate almost exclusively ham and cheese like croissants and baguettes and that kind of thing. Is that true? - Yeah, that's actually true. I love my baguette. What else? I trained a few years in France and they have the best baguette. The best baguette. And I didn't have a kitchen. So I just stick to baguette and ham for basically lunch and dinner. And they French, they were going crazy about it. And I still do it. So on my own, on the road trip, for traveling, I just have for evening just some baguette and ham. - Like how much? (laughs) How often are we talking like every day you just go and lunch and dinner like baguette and ham? - At least every day, one sandwich every day. At least one baguette. - That is so funny. And like we're talking a big baguette or like just a little baguette. What are we talking here? - Yeah, it must be a good baguette. Like there are some differences, but the French baguettes, you can't beat them. But even in Zorona, you can get good ones and a big one. Yeah. (laughs) - Yeah, well, I mean forever, like Jan Frodeno was the poster boy, like the perfect body and triathlon. Like you know, we all know about the shirtless picks he's got. But you might be taking over his role and the secret to like six pack abs is just a ham baguette once a day every day. - Gatrine, 35 hours a plus, then you can have a bucket and ham, yeah. - I love it. I love it, 'cause I honestly expected that to be one of those things that you hear and it not quite be true, but it turns out, it is literally exactly as I had it told to me. Like yeah, this person was just laughing and says, "All he does is eat baguettes and ham." Well, that's all he does. He doesn't eat anything else. I've never seen anything else. It's true. It might just be because you're too lazy from all the training that you do and that you can't be bothered to make good food. So you just grab something quick and easy, right? - Yeah, just after the training, just normally just something quick. Sometimes in the morning it's musely and so, before the race I was done like hot food, just keep it really simple. - Do you think in general diet is important? Like do you think about the quality of the food that you eat or you can't just eat whatever type of guy? - In general, like, to eat high quality food, I think you feel it also like in the next or in the sessions after and just feeling better kind of. So try to eat healthy as possible. I mean, I love my sweets, my haribo, so I can't take them away from me. - Again, classic European. And what about your coffee order? Are you a big coffee guy? - Yeah, actually I have like maybe up to six, seven coffees a day. So in the morning, at least two, then before, after the swim, I never nap in another coffee and then go full ride and after coffee, another coffee. So maybe six, seven coffees a day. - Just like black coffee? - Yeah, just a double espresso. - You do not have six or seven double espresso a day. - Sure. - Yeah. - No way, are you serious? - I actually don't feel the coffee in any more kind of. Just for the taste. - Holy shit, there's like, isn't there like 150 milligrams of caffeine in a double espresso and you're doing six or seven of them a day? Like your, your push in, sometimes a thousand milligrams of caffeine a day. - Yeah, probably. When I'm also only getting bored, and my main hobby is like going for coffee. That's what I'm doing, because that's training. - I might have that wrong. I reckon I must have that wrong. There must be way less, 'cause that wouldn't be possible. You'd be dead, I reckon. I wonder, maybe I don't, maybe I don't, but that is, yeah, that's crazy. I still, I reckon that is true. I reckon there's like, you know, 60, 70, 80 milligrams of caffeine in a shot, so a double espresso, two shots, but say 120, 120 times seven. So over, yeah, that's over 800 milligrams a day. Pretty crazy. That was, yeah, wow. I'm kind of a bit shookier if you can't tell. I can't, I can't think properly after that. - What I'm talking about is I can handle it. (laughing) - You reckon that's the thing. You reckon the tall you are, the more caffeine you can handle. - 100%. - Wow, okay. Wow. Oh, yeah, like I said, I've completely lost my train of thought. That is the most crazy, I didn't expect, but I thought your training would be the most crazy thing I'd hear today, but that has definitely taken over. That is actually insane. Okay, I'll try and compose myself to finish this off here. Texas, we got Texas coming up. What, what, who are you looking at? Who are the people that you think you're gonna have to beat? Do you think that you can win the race? - I always believe that I can win the race. Otherwise, I wouldn't race, but for sure, I don't know each and the back, the Belgian yellow is doing his debut, Martin is coming. So it's gonna be a huge race, and I hope we can actually make the swim fast this time. It's a non-whiteswitch swim, and normally I do really well when it's hot in humid. Texas's gonna be a hot in humid. I checked the weather forecast, it doesn't look too crazy, like not too hot new. But I think we can open the gap a bit on the swim and put the non-whiteswitch on a pressure. - Do you do hate prep? Like do you do specific passive or active hate training? - Not really. Just all mentally. Like I think some people overdo it also with their heat training. So, and then they go tired, and I did it in the past and I get really tired from the sessions, and I should do, I know what I'm doing well in the heat, and that's actually also meant to benefit of being like confidence and being like, I'm good in the heat. So I'm gonna go there without any heat prep sessions. - I had a heat expert tell me that you can do all the heat preparation in the world, and it can help, it can definitely help, particularly if you come from a really cold climate, but the thing that will make you best prepared for hot races above all else is being the fittest version of you that you can be, and the leanest version of you that you can be, and they are far more important than any specific heat preparation that you can do. So he basically said that if you have a really hot race coming up, like let's say it's 30 degrees Celsius or a hundred degrees Fahrenheit type of thing, that your order of priority leading into the race should be be the fittest you can be, be the leanest you can be, and then a well lower, but still number three would be a specific heat prep, and if you can only do two of them, then it would be the first two, be fit and be lean. Do you, and I kinda look at you and I go, well clearly based off this chat, you're doing a lot of training, you're fit all year round and you're a super lean guy. Do you think that's why you do well in the heat? Like does that resonate with you? - Mm-hmm, it's probably, and I also spent a lot of time in the heat, and when I was living in South Africa, I had no winter for maybe 10 years, then it's easier to train in the heat. I spent a lot of time in the heat, and yeah, I think this also plays a role. - Yeah, interesting. And then, so if you can get away on the swim, you talked about earlier how you might want to sit in on the bike. If there is a front group on the swim, like let's say that, I don't know, yourself and Martin and a select group get off the front, and the Norwegians are behind you and magnus is behind you, and maybe even Yellow Gaines is behind you. Are you really gonna sit in? Like, or if you get that gap on the swim, is it just same old Jonas Schomburg to the front baby, we're gonna push all day here. - I'm gonna go in the front and help the guys to open the gap. I'm not the one who was sitting in the back, but if everyone's doing this year off the work, it's fine. And if you were to win the race. Who do you think, who do you think is going to make up the podium? Who's going to be second and third if you win it? I think Caspas who doing really well actually is getting better and better. And I was, you will see, but I'm curious how, how yellow is going to do. Because I think he's, he hasn't done it, but I think he's going to, he's light, he's good in the heat. Um, he's a small guy and, um, he can run. So probably he can run like a 230 or even faster for sure. And so probably he will be on the podium too. Do you look at Jolong 70.3 where Christian beat Yala and, and, and Hayden and go, or maybe Yala is in, in great form at the moment? Or do you get given that, you know, not that long ago at 70.3 world, yellow beat Christian on the run? Or, or do you think that maybe, maybe he's, he's just going to still be in great form for the Iron Man and, and will be a threat like you said and, and could finish on the podium. Now he's going to be a threat for sure. And he is the one who's also like having, after a good training block and getting, and better and better. So for the big races, you want to always going to show up and later of the year, probably even more. Okay. Cool. And what do, when it comes to the marathon, like, um, obviously you, you had the, the good marathon at the Iron Man World Championships last year, I think actually a super underrated performance. I reckon, I reckon there's a bit of a view of you that you're not as good a runner as what you really are, but you kind of showed it at Ocean side with your 109. And, and at the Iron Man World Championships last year, you ran 236, which kind of gets forgotten about because of the Norwegian battle up in front. But do you think that you're in that kind of shape? Like, do you think that you, you can run, you know, low 230, high to 20 type of thing at Texas or, or what kind of run shape you're in for the marathon? Um, actually, I think my run shape is better than last year for sure. Um, the sessions I've done compared to, I always can do similar sessions and compare. And I feel like I'm a bit as shape now. Um, the, um, and knees, I actually ran too fast. The first two, I think in three zero pace or something. So I tried to, this time, maybe the pacing is good, but I, um, I was just one that I was not in the lead pack with the other guys, um, not joining in the big show. And then I tried to close it, I was way too far behind. Um, this time, um, even a notch, I was not really happy with my run compared to what I was done in the training. Um, yeah, so I, and overall, I think I can even run faster than 236. So that's the goal. I did think it was a little bit ambitious at Nice when you went out at about 211 marathon pace. I'm like, oh, don't think he's going to be able to run 211 today, but to, to be a little ambitious didn't it when you, when you're around 236, when you, when you were, you know, two K in in, in like six minutes and 30 seconds? Yeah, I paid the, the prize on the last thing in Nice. But, um, as I said, I'm better shape now, did the training know, no, no, getting their healthy, I think that's the main thing now for, and not overdo it here and just having two three session, good sessions and keep it simple and then be fresh on the start line. I think rather be fresh than just overdo it here in the training. Yeah. And just, this is where we're going to wrap it up. But I want to, I want to touch on your taper that you, that you talked about earlier, get a little bit more detail about that and then we'll, uh, we'll send you on your way to Ironman, Texas. So you, you said that for the 70.3 and the Ironman, you, you might maybe only tapering for a day or a day and a half, talk to me about what your, let's say the seven days into a race. What does that look like for you? What, what do you typically do? What, what did you do for Ocean side? Maybe is a good place to start? Mm hmm. Like everyone has their own routine and I found this kind of routine worked in the last couple of years for me. So it's always the same thing and you can even check it out on Strava. So it's Monday, it's just an hour easy run, some strides, uh, to our bike ride and the swim, some home gym Tuesday. It's, um, little far like on the run for like an hour, uh, run session and total the swim and a bike ride with like four times eight minutes, uh, Wednesday is a double run or three times two carry kind of race pace or faster. And, uh, another two hour bike with some 30 seconds on and off and then on from when Thursday on I started the bit, the tape on Thursday is just a swim and a easy bike and Friday do all of three sessions again just short, Saturday the race. And do you think that's what you do for Texas? That's that same kind of thing or do you taper a little bit harder for a full distance? No, just doing the same thing. It worked. I think I like it when it keeps attention and the muscles and going. There were too much tape, I tried it many times, but not was not working too much. Interesting, interesting, but again, something I'm hearing more and more. I think that's the modern way. I think long tapers are kind of a thing of the past in professional triathlete, on at least for most people. Some people still do them, but I would say the majority of good guys aren't. And like I mean, you talk about the Norwegian method and the Schomburg method being a little bit different, but look at what they're doing seven days out from the Iron Man World Championships right? Like they're doing those monster weekends where they're probably they're doing the biggest session seven days out from the race, not, you know, not two, three weeks out. Yeah. I think they also do like high mileage still to race days and it clearly worked. Yeah, exactly. Well, Jonas, it's been, it's been awesome, mate. I've been wanting to talk to you on the podcast for a while. Man, you have been talking about talking about it for a while, but I've kind of, yeah, like I'd been going away from doing these, these training interviews. Like I did so many of them for the first four years of the podcast that I just got a little bit sick of them, but I've had a year off and I want to keep doing them. And I was like, yeah, one of the first guys. I have to do it with. There's got to be Jonas Schomburg because your training has become a little bit of the talk of the town. And I'm so glad we did this because it is really, really interesting the way you train. You know, I love your polarized approach. I love your attitude of more is more. It's just, it's fascinating, but it kind of makes sense while you're so good because you love to push hard, you love to race, you love to train more and more and more and harder and harder. But yeah, the room is about your training, it's true basically, aren't they? And you live up to the heart. It's kind of, I enjoy it. I've been training to 45 hours, but I'm always doing, it's not the secret doing more, but I think as long as you're enjoying it, the time you don't like ticking the boxes, I think it's also a big part of it and the factor is like having and enjoying your training. Yep. Alright mate, good luck at Texas. Hopefully you can get the job done and good luck for the rest of the year, but I'm sure we'll talk to you throughout the year as well, like in the lead up to Kirona and that kind of thing, we'll get you back on and chat about how things are going. But in the meantime, good luck at Texas. Hopefully everything goes well, you don't get sick or injured and that kind of thing and you have a good race. Thank you. [Music]